# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  Be honest about SA

## pmbguy

Gentlemen, I am very worried about SA. One must be deaf, dumb and stupid not to be. Look around you. So much is wrong it is beyond all our energy to even list it all. My little one is 6. She is quite unaffected by it all - I hope to keep it that way. 

Funny how the biggest liberals have left already... and those still here are just about to go or at the very least seriously contemplating it.  

We are the protest capital of the world (google it). We have "service delivery protests", that, my dear friends, is short talk for revolution. 

God help us all

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## Justloadit

I think that RSA is in a very bad position, and can not see ourselves getting out of it, for many years to come.
The rot is very deep, in fact it is prevalent in every aspect of our daily lives, just read the news. To change the mindset of the residents of RSA, who have been poisoned by the current government rhetoric, will take decades to eliminate.
Currently there is approximately 12 million young adults, between the ages of 15 and 24, who have no affiliation to the current government, and may sway the vote away from the current government. If this happens, then there may be a change. The question is going to be who they vote for. Taking into consideration that they are still naive, they may believe that nationalizing everything is going to provide them with jobs.

I have reached a time in my life that I can not wait around for another 10 to 15 years to see an improvement, by then I may be past my sell by date and not have the energy to start afresh.

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pmbguy (22-Sep-17)

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## pmbguy

Hell JustL you not that old brother. 
The question is not whether the ANC can be voted out (which is entirely possible) the real question, however, is how the ANC would "behave" as the official opposition? Can you bloody imagine. Them being voted out is one scenario, the other 99 are all also pretty damn dark.

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## pmbguy

I don't read fiction. I read only history, specifically conflict with some specialization (roughly 1845-1946). Anyway, each book comes with a chapter or chapters on the causes of war. Of much concern is that if those were boxes we have checked each and every damn one.

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## Justloadit

The other question of course.If the ANC losses, will they vacate the building?
With their attitude to the rule of law, well it is debatable.

If you in JZs shoes right now, and with the possibility of going to jail, and with the support of a majority of MPs on his side, simply because they were hand picked by him, and bearing in mind that the Police, SANDF, NPA, PP, Hawks are all his hand picked henchmen, who will act against the loser?

One way is to ensure that there is no election, so that the status quo remains. So how does one do it? 
What about creating a situation that the year end conference does not take place, and so JZ remains the president of the ANC. Next create a political situation, in which a state of emergency is called, and maintain this situation indefinitely. By so doing, there will be no elections come 2019, then what.........
The only department not under his direct control is Justice, and I believe this was a miscalculation on the part of JZ, he was under the impression that he had the chief justice MM on his side, but MM has a concience and is applying the law, and ensuring that the top judges do the same, under very difficult life threatening conditions.

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## HR Solutions

> but MM has a concience and is applying the law, and ensuring that the top judges do the same, under very difficult life threatening condition


I just hope that zuma does not replace him ....... not even sure if he has the power to do that or not ...... not sure of much these days  :Frown:

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## PlatinumWealth.co.za

Zimbabwe didn't get to where it is over night, it was a process.

Ours have started. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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pmbguy (03-Nov-17)

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## adrianh

South Africa is no different from America. The country is run by a handful of people and politics is just a side show to occupy the masses. Zuma entrenched his entire extended family and cronies in every aspect of government so it doesn't matter whether he is the the figurehead or not. People who think that ousting Zuma is going to make any difference are deluding themselves. Zuma played the ANC just as Bush played the American public. Can you cure the cancer.....only if you completely oust the current regime and replace it completely (maybe then you have a tiny chance)

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## Dave A

> So much is wrong it is beyond all our energy to even list it all.


Pretty much why I have stopped spending much time thinking about it - I realised it was poisoning my mind and wrecking my own productivity.

Every now and then I'll take notice of something - like it took seven years to have Mpshe's obviously irrational decision to drop the charges against Jacob Zuma set aside. It has taken another year and some to reach a point where Jacob Zuma's legal counsel acknowledges in court that the decision was irrational!!! 

*And still* there is no sign that Jacob Zuma will *ever* actually have his day in court.
On current form, one has to say - probably not.

Are the charges reinstated and the process just supposed to pick up where it left off?
Years of litigation ahead to decide that one, I expect.

And then should the day arrive, potentially _post posthumously_ on the part of the defendant, surely the first motion of the defense is going to be that all the delays have unreasonably prejudiced the defendant and therefore the case must be summarily dismissed.

And this is just one issue which has knocked our country's today and future. No shortage of others.

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## HR Solutions

> Pretty much why I have stopped spending much time thinking about it - I realised it was poisoning my mind and wrecking my own productivity.


I agree with you Dave - I don't even watch the news anymore.  More often than not the media dramatise something - its all very depressing and better I don't know every day to day detail.

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## adrianh

> I agree with you Dave - I don't even watch the news anymore.  More often than not the media dramatise something - its all very depressing and better I don't know every day to day detail.


South African money men and politics are the least of our problems. 

I follow American politics very closely. It is obvious that Donald Trump and his cronies are going to stage a false flag attack by North Korea and that they are going to use that as an excuse to start a full scale war. I wager that this will happen in the next 2 months. I further think that America are going to find out this time round that the entire world is tired of their shit and that they had gone to far in their pursuit of financial domination via brute force.

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## HR Solutions

Yep ..... Americans are a bunch of f&*%w%ts

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## Blurock

> We are the protest capital of the world (google it). We have "service delivery protests", that, my dear friends, is short talk for revolution. 
> 
> God help us all


And those same tyre burners are voting for the same incompetent government again!
How stupid can one be? :Confused:

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pmbguy (22-Sep-17)

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## HR Solutions

> And those same tyre burners are voting for the same incompetent government again!
> How stupid can one be?



Yep because the government promised them free house and free education!  Some people are like sheep ..... and its happening again - The ANC go into certain areas and promise promise promise, the residents "forget' about previous promises not being fulfilled and vote for them again !!!!

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## pmbguy

The thing is... Dave, even if You remain positive it does not change the real situation. However, I see your point, I too sometimes pretend that all is well. In practicality being positive is probably the one thing that absolutely relates to success. 

Now all books on war have a chapter or chapters as to the causes of war. One may look at economics, one may look at politics, however one thing is rather clear. One must suffer a very particular ignorance not to see what the hell is going on.

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## pmbguy

...not just too see what is going on but to draw conclusions... and to prepare accordingly

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## PlatinumWealth.co.za

Country is fcked. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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## pmbguy

@Plat

Yes, but perhaps the question is how one should react. I believe one should not over-react. By that I mean don't react the way any normal person would. We in SA and not allowed to react normally.

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## pmbguy

I must say I thought HR or Adrian would tell me to stop complaining. Where are you buggers? Hell I am not sure how I would respond since I am technically complaining.

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## PlatinumWealth.co.za

I'm reacting by stocking up on forgein currencies and a big holder of bitcoin.

Just incase we get to zim2.0 I can leave and live wherever I want. That's my exit strategy. 

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## pmbguy

Shit, I was thinking baked beans man. I am too stupid to really know bitcoin. I do know its dropping like sinker of late... but perhaps that's when you buy. I don't know.

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## pmbguy

The only reason I don't buy bitcoin is that I don't quite understand it. I prefer solids.

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## PlatinumWealth.co.za

> Shit, I was thinking baked beans man. I am too stupid to really know bitcoin. I do know its dropping like sinker of late... but perhaps that's when you buy. I don't know.


There's a fork coming in November so it's anticipated (just technical jargon for they are doing some upgrades).

Here's a thread explaining a little bit about what bitcoin is https://platinumwealth.co.za/forum/T...Bitcoin-thread it's a lengthy read, but I think it's worth it especially given South Africa's current state of affairs and the JSE not really being the pinnacle of trust lately. 

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## pmbguy

Thanks, I do know what it is theoretically. I just cant get myself to hold 0 and 1's. instead of gold

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## pmbguy

I am not sophisticated enough for bitcoin. If I do not understand the fundamentals there is no way.

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## pmbguy

If China is kicking it especially

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## Blurock

One of the big problems in this country is ignorance and misconceptions. It all boils down to lack of education; We do not understand each other's cultures, we do not know our own history. The history now taught at school is total propaganda and does not teach about the Indian indentured workers who came here to work in the cane fields. They pulled themselves up from their boot strings and today they are leaders in every community. As far as I know, there are no Indians cutting cane in South Africa today.

How much do we know and understand of the Khoisan who were chased from their land and ended up in the Kalahari and in Namibia? How much do we know about the Matebele (Northern Ndebele) who were pursued by the Zulus and ended up in Matabeleland (Zimbabwe)? How much do we know about the tribal wars which formed different indigenous groups? 

Afrikaners were never colonisers. They actually fought the British Empire against the annexation of their Republics, which were recognised until gold was discovered there. Farms were burnt in the British scorched earth policy and thousands of women and children died in the concentration camps. After the Boer war many had to go work in the mines as there were no farms to return to. Some joined the Communist party and their uprising against poor working conditions and low pay has led to the 1922 miner's revolt. The "poor white" (armblanke) problem has led to much hardship, but it was these very people that gave impetus to Iscor, Sasol and Phelindaba. All this was achieved through education and hard work.

South Africans are innovators and world leaders in many fields. The names of Elon Musk, Mark Shuttleworth, Chris Barnard and Mandela are well known. South Africans did not only perform the first heart transplant, but also the first penis transplant. In addition there was Pratley putty, Kreepy Krauly, dolosse, CAT scan, Q20, prepaid phones, Speedgun, flightscope and many others, too numerous to mention.

There is much to be concerned about in South Africa. people break the law because they know that the chances are slim of being caught. You can possibly "buy" your docket and make it disappear. However, there are many more positives that we can concentrate on. Stop getting emotional about politicians and their parties. They are all crooked in some way. Let us as the People stand together, treat each other with respect, fight corruption and vote against any politician that comes to power. Never vote them into power. Vote them out of power!

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## pmbguy

Hi there Blue. Long time. I agree with your sentiment good Sir.

However, I am compelled to correct the record, if I may

The "Boer Communists", this rare gem, very rare, was born from the Cape. These were gentrified families who may have spoken Dutch but they were not Afrikaners and Certainly not Boers. 

The Khoisan did not exist. The was the Koi and there was the San. 

Anyway, Blue. I wish I was as diplomatic as you.

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## pmbguy

Possibly the most successful race in SA must be Indians, Blue. Hardworking, and each kid has to have a degree. From slaves to masters of industry.

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## HR Solutions

> I must say I thought HR or Adrian would tell me to stop complaining. Where are you buggers? Hell I am not sure how I would respond since I am technically complaining.



Lol ..... don't be like that.  The thing is you get some people that complain all the time (we won't mention names).  They are so miserable and continuously complain and bring every one around them down.  I personally stay far away from them.  But everyone has a right to complain now and again and you have always been a very positive person, as we all try to be, so I think you are entitled to have a rough patch and vent your feelings.  Its a lot different to someone bitching and moaning about basically everything and the worst is they don't do anything about it. The continue to wallow in their own misery instead of getting out there and making a difference in their own life and surrounding circumstances, be it only a slight bit.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to stay positive all the time with the kak that is going on in this country, but I am now over 50 and it is not that easy to leave, plus my kids are here and that means everything to me.  I can't even move to CT permanently because my wife wants to be near the family, so that is really what we have got and SA is still a beautiful country with friends and braai time on the weekends

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## adrianh

> I must say I thought HR or Adrian would tell me to stop complaining. Where are you buggers? Hell I am not sure how I would respond since I am technically complaining.


I have way too much on my mind to care about South African politics. America is doing its best to goad North Korea into starting Thermonuclear war (which America will claim to defend the world against - bullshit artists). I have a huge amount of work to do for my customers and then also development of my own products. ...lets just say that the little insignificant cockroaches that rule this country are not significant to me right now.

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## Dave A

> The thing is... Dave, even if You remain positive it does not change the real situation.


It changes my capacity to deal with, or at least operate within, the real situation. 




> However, I see your point, I too sometimes pretend that all is well.


No, I don't pretend all is well. I recognise the mess for what it is, but don't linger over it. I ration my exposure to a level where it doesn't start harming my personal performance.




> In practicality being positive is probably the one thing that absolutely relates to success.


Yeah, I've found it's pretty important. That's why I consciously keep track of my frame of mind and actively manage it.

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## pmbguy

Dave. It must require all fantasy to pretend that we face nothing less than disaster. Look, one can make money in conflict, hell if you smart enough you could kill it. Coffins, petrol and pap. Dave, the fundamentals of civilization require some bloody form of control. What will happen in 2019? What will happen when the ANC is no longer in control? Can you imagine the ANC as the position?... I can, it means war.  Even if Zuma becomes Zuma... then we will be like Zim. War still, only this time EEF or similar against the state. We as fodder nonetheless. Perhaps I am too pessimistic...  then you show us a way out.

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## pmbguy

I mean that, Dave, please show us a way out. I cannot imagine one, at least not with any measure of logic.

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## pmbguy

What I mean is : Logically, how can we be OK? 

In which way can we not become usual Africa? It makes me sick, don't sleep much anymore. One has to be a special kind of stupid not to be preparing for a dark horizon. Well, I am not leaving. You buggers will go... don't lie I know you will. I will have to stay, no ancestral and not enough cash. Besides, life is very short and fighting for something happens only once in a lifetime. 

Good luck to you all!

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## Dave A

So how did you feel the following morning?

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DPCK (16-Dec-17)

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## pmbguy

Pretty shit, Dave, pretty shit. 

Dave, I read history concerning war and conflict, a hobby if you will. In most books you will find an introduction or chapters concerning the causes of war. So, Look around you. Just bloody look. Like most books on war there are chapters explaining why. 

The general public...  if you happen to be weak and stupid at the same time. 

Now, it is rather clear what those variables are. Just from the top of my hat... like appropriating a farm without compensation. How well did that work in Rhodesia, Mozambique, Angola, Congo, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya, CAR ... how did that work out? 



I have realized that one must specialize (the Z is spell check). One must read wide but specialize.

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## pmbguy

Dave, are you busy immigrating or is that emigrating. Whatever, are you? I hope not.

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## pmbguy

"Pretty much why I have stopped spending much time thinking about it" , this post from you, Dave, page 1 or 2. 


Dave, I am sure you may have a liberal slant. Beyond mere politics I know you are a good man. I know that. I only have this one question, Dave, is it possible that the old shit Boere were right when they warned us? More specifically, which warnings were incorrect?

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## Dave A

> Dave, are you busy immigrating or is that emigrating. Whatever, are you? I hope not.


Long way from it, actually. Just recently put my signature to a 6 year local commitment. If it comes to pass, things will have to get really messed up for me to abandon that.

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## Dave A

> Now, it is rather clear what those variables are. Just from the top of my hat... like appropriating a farm without compensation.


I'm still hopeful that's more noise than reality looming.

Talking of looming - The thing to watch for is the outcome of the ANC National Conference. That should give us some serious clues.

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## pmbguy

Glad to here that!

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## pmbguy

My family invested locally, but Dave this was back in the 90's and I think they may have made a killing. 

6 Years. Shit Dave... I know very little about it, but it seems rather risky.

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## pmbguy

> I'm still hopeful that's more noise than reality looming.
> 
> Talking of looming - The thing to watch for is the outcome of the ANC National Conference. That should give us some serious clues.


The ANC conference will be the most interesting shit in SA bar none. Given the political killings in KZN, how even more interesting indeed.

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## PlatinumWealth.co.za

> Long way from it, actually. Just recently put my signature to a 6 year local commitment. If it comes to pass, things will have to get really messed up for me to abandon that.


I wanted to to buy a place this year, but decided to wait another 12 months.

I'm not sure I'm willing to commit to this country whilst Atul is still president of South Africa. 

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## maxnewman

From my side can say that I love SA with all my heart, but with the political instability (which I don't see getting better) my thoughts have turned recently, to the options of immigrating should things really hit the fan here...
For the record, SA, has been good to me, my concern is, as many, with the future prospects for my kids!

Have been studying the subject for a while and came to conclusion that Australia is too expensive, and most realistic is US/Canada. However I really prefer northern Europe as I spent 2 years there as a student. I can say I’d stay in Norway: great country from many aspects and very secure + the language is not too difficult. Was thinking about it and can’t find a way to get there yet. Greek golden visa can be an option if to buy real estate in Greece. The good thing is that the spouse and children can get the visa too, and property price is really low comparing to other European countries. It’s just an idea though, but might be a way to get inside Europe (Norway). Also thought about Montenegro and Serbia, they are cheap and pretty easy to start from. 

Was wondering if anyone here has any experience with moving to Europe with a family?

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## Blurock

I would consider moving to Spain.
Wonderful country with wonderful people. Language may still be a problem, but Spanish is not too difficult if you put your mind to it.
Food is fresh and delicious. In some cases it cost less and the wine is good - and they have the sunshine!

On the other hand, I am a South African. Although not born here, I cannot imagine leaving this wonderful country to live alone in a foreign country away from family and friends.
That is why I always speak my mind against politicians and corruption. I try to make a difference wherever I can. If I can save one starfish every day, that is 365 a year!

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maxnewman (18-Dec-17)

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## New Perspective studio

Our faintest hope is a full on revolution , that by some miracle people manage to stand together, to not be manipulated by the race card and see what is actually going on, and fight for the proper democracy we all were told was at hand in 1994. Even if this miracle occurs somehow i have read that many historians saying that it takes countries decades to repair economic and social damage after a revolution to just touch base with were they were BEFORE the revolution and from there on positive change happens ( ie the reversal of the governments damages ) .By that time i will be near retirement , my children ( If i had would be working and have gone through school.) 

Things are certainly changing politically, well from our perspective ( but i believe one problem is going to replace another ). 

Another hope .... some outside power finds a very good reason to tread this land and steps in to force a change...but we as a country will keep rotting away. .. Even then they would not act in whats best for SA.

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