# General Business Category > Business Finance Forum >  Our economy?

## Regan

With the constant increase in fuel and now the Eskom fiasco. Our daily/ monthly consumer inflation is going to affect us in a big way. Foreign investment will soon become a trickle if any. The cost of having an investment in our SA does not look so rewarding anymore. The poor are becoming poorer, the middle class is on the edge of poor and the rich are not really affected. Crime will increase as people will steal to survive. The scenario looks like the beginings of another Zimbawe downward trend. Very scary, I hope that our govrnment will see the light. :EEK!:

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## Moneymaker

The number of people contacting me about leaving SA has increased 20 fold.....in the past three months!

So the govt. had better get their act together and quickly or a massive amount of skills will leave SA in the next year or two...but then maybe that's what the govt. want....

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## SilverNodashi

not to sound too negative, but it could have a positive impact on  the country if all the "powerful" people emigrated, like a lot of engineers who now live in other countries. And I mean this on a "shock" basis, where the country could be shocked to get it's act together if it sees all it's educated people leaving the country for better opportunities

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## Moneymaker

> not to sound too negative, but it could have a positive impact on  the country if all the "powerful" people emigrated, like a lot of engineers who now live in other countries. And I mean this on a "shock" basis, where the country could be shocked to get it's act together if it sees all it's educated people leaving the country for better opportunities


I personally can't see any positives fot the country in skills leaving South Africa and I doubt our govt. gives a damn since they've done little to re-introduce the much needed skills in the public sector so I'm guessing why would they bother with the private sector skills losses....Besides this skill drain has been going on for years but since so many just leave instead of emigrating the govt. sits back thinking everything is as it was.....while all about them fails!

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## SilverNodashi

ok, so how will the government, and other key people in our country realize that they're screwing up? Do we need to wait for a 2nd Zimbabwe before things change?

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## Dave A

Consider for a moment what it will take to get Zimbabwe back on a sound financial footing. There is very little upside to sliding backwards.

I'm currently seeing evidence of an exodus of people greater than ever before. Not folks who tend to run at the first sign of trouble, but stubborn folks who are used to persisting through setbacks. This is not "surplus skills stock" - these are folk who were actively contributing to the wellbeing of our economy.

I know we've had runs of emmigration in the past, but I don't think the flawed paradigms of our leaders have ever been clearer. This isn't driven by some speculative unease. There is hard evidence on the table that we've got some fundamental problems that don't auger well for the immediate future.

The counter is that with so many skilled contributors leaving, those with skills that remain will be even more valuable. Unfortunately, skill and an ability to contribute positively to the economy is not the first priority of the current government - or the one we seem set to have for the next 4 years.

To be honest I'm not sure what it will take for our government leaders to recognise that they need to change their paradigm. Looking North, it seems the worse their policies perform, the more dogmatic the leaders become.

The tide could quickly be reversed with another De Klerk or Mandela - people who can cast a new vision against the popularist flow and make it stick - but there is no evidence of one on the immediate horison.

Our current crop is far to married to convenience.

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## Moneymaker

> ok, so how will the government, and other key people in our country realize that they're screwing up? Do we need to wait for a 2nd Zimbabwe before things change?


They need to lose the blinkers over their eyes and drop the arrogance for a start....

I agree with everything Dave posted...

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## Dave A

Some stats on where we're at on the emigration front in this story.



> Twenty percent of South Africans are planning to emigrate or are seriously considering it, according to the results of a survey released on Wednesday by global market-research company Synovate.
> 
> Spokesperson Jake Orpen said 600 respondents were interviewed in all nine provinces of South Africa, using face-to-face interviews. 
> 
> The results were weighted to ensure representation across province, age, gender and race.
> 
> "South Africans are not in the best frame of mind lately, due to the obvious political uncertainty, economic instability and electricity problems," Orpen said.
> 
> The option to emigrate was most popular amongst young and middle-aged South Africans (18 to 44 years).
> ...


The story goes on to break down the stats in a number of areas - none too encouraging by my reckoning. Pick your shocker or surprise, but 20% of the population of the entire country...  :EEK!:

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## murdock

well the writting is on the bottom of the tv screen again....brown...red we are heading for an electricity melt down again...so many of my customers are applying for visas...some have already left some are waiting for their housing to be sold which seem to becoming a bigger and bigger problem...as the prices are dropping...i am starting to think it might be in my childrens best interest to move to another country for their education and safety...i cannot be around them all the time to protect them and what i am hear on a daily basis now is how many people are being affected by crime...just in the road i live in 3 of my neighbours and 5 in total that i have heard of have been hijacked the neighbour directly opposite me has attempted break in  3 times already...there have been numerous attempted hijacking in my road cable ties on the gate...logs put on the road to obstruct the road you get out to move the log and the car is taken...the writting is on the wall either we need to stop the crime or move...the economy doesnt bother me i have small overheads min debt and the petrol price i will be charging all my customers for travelling soon
the electricity...is not a concern to me i have a generator...an invertor with enough battery power to last 12 hours...gas and battery backup lights to last six hours...and laptops and cell phones for internet access

my only concern is the "CRIME" which is not going to get any better until the economy is sorted out and lots of jobs are created...the problem is the goverment is covered they have the best security and body gaurds money can buy...they dont worry about hijacking because they are normally speeding down the freeways with blue lights not stopping at robots in case they get hijacked...their petrol is paid for by you the tax payer...all their freinds and family are employed or have contract with the goverment...and if the money runs out they get forein investment.

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## Moneymaker

I got abused (mostly in PM's) for predicting these issues on a rival forum....so maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut, except to say that these are very sad days indeed for South Africa. Front page news in most international newspapers is the story of the Tyre-necklassing of a fellow human being. Is this the SA we want to portray to overseas investors....? This is back to pre 1994 days.....Sad indeed and the government is quoted (in the above article) as looking to make it easier for 'foreigners' to immigrate - Pity the people don't seem to be in sync with the govt. or visa-versa.

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## Dave A

> I got abused (mostly in PM's) for predicting these issues on a rival forum....


It's the sort of thing that is going to evoke strong emotions. In a way it's a positive sign - that there is still such strong patriotism around.

I know that *I* want things to work out for this country. But I also believe that if we *are* to solve the problems, we need to face the realities, as uncomfortable as that might be right now.

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## Moneymaker

Well I guess there has to be some origins and reason for the saying "Dont shoot the messenger"...  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Patriotism is excellent and a vital ingredient but the problem comes in when it is mixed with blatant arrogance. Despite how you could try you can not teach an arrogant person anything.....they already think they know it all!  :Smile:   :Whistling: 

I hope we can get some humble people into leadership roles. (read: Jim Collins - Good to great).

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## murdock

sometimes i wonder if there is not a bigger picture which we are all missing...like maybe the aim is to get as many of us out of here...by making it unbearable to live here then start bringing in people from china and other over populated countries to start a new life here...getting their foot in here with investment etc...buying countries to dump waste...bring a county to it knees then move in and take over...all these sorts of issue which are huge problems in other countries...or maybe i just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

watching the news bigger ships arriving with more cheap chinese junk...and fruit and veg and scrap metal leaving for china.

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## Dave A

> I hope we can get some humble people into leadership roles. (read: Jim Collins - Good to great).


Level 5 leadership. It would help but how often do we see quiet, unassuming leaders in politics?



> sometimes i wonder if there is not a bigger picture which we are all missing...like maybe the aim is to get as many of us out of here...


In considering that possibility, you'd have to ask how that would benefit the people that stayed.

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## murdock

dont worry i have death threats for a post i put on a different forum...i had to get a restraining order against the person just in case :Big Grin: ... but looking forward to the confrontation...it is now called self defence...and bearing in mind the person is on a suspended sentence for assult already i can use whatever means neccessary to defend myself.

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## duncan drennan

> sometimes i wonder if there is not a bigger picture which we are all missing...like maybe the aim is to get as many of us out of here...


I was watching the latest reports on the xenophobic attacks and listening to the reactions of various high up politicians and then marrying that to the number or crises we've been bombarded with this year.

One of the things that I suspect is that we have a bunch of people who are inexperienced running the country and learning lessons the hard way. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but how we go forward from here is. Because government tends to be a slow moving beast we probably have to look 10 years back and examine what was going on then to establish what we did wrong.

So going back to Jim Collins, do we have leaders who are willing to learn from their mistakes and build momentum in the right direction, or leaders who will continue in a negative spiral.

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## Dave A

Here is the sort of story that makes me wonder about gov strategy.



> In a move that will see an additional two million South Africans receiving social grants, Social Development Minister Zola Skweyiya on Friday announced that people earning more than R2 000 will soon qualify for welfare assistance.
> 
> Addressing the National Assembly during the department's budget vote debate, Skweyiya said the current means test, where people earning more than R1 500 a month did not qualify for grants, had kept many people out of the social security system.
> 
> "Consequently, we have agreed to work towards the removal of the archaic means test on certain grant types. This will have the consequence of removing the urban/rural qualification divide whilst raising the threshold to R2 200 per month for child support, old age and disability grants," he said.
> 
> The changes were meant to assist the poor to cope with current economic challenges characterised by high inflation and rising food prices.
> 
> "All these reforms in our social security system will go a long way towards widening the social security safety net and may see the entry into the system of 2 million deserving people," he said.
> ...


It's throwing money at the problem instead of treating the root causes. And then there is the effect on the fiscus... More money being taken from enterprises and individuals who could create more employment to finance handouts.

Or maybe I'm just being too insensitive.

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## Marq

Pretty soon if the government carries on in this way, I will pass the means test.
No job No money No future and man am I going to be mean then.
But at least I should qualify for a grant somewhere in the many categories of hand outs. Who knows maybe I'll be mean enough to qualify for a few categories.

So you guys out there had better keep making big bucks and stop inflation and eating cause the coffers must be full when I come round.

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## IanF

I heard that there are about 8 million people in SA receiving a Government grant of some sort. This frightens me. :Mad:

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## Moneymaker

There's an election coming up.........so this is no surprise. They're buying votes amongst those who they have failed to address in the last 15 years with housing etc. Since most domestics dont earn R2000 per month, this will possibly see even more people giving up work which will increase unemployment, and since taxes will have to go up to afford this benefit, maybe there will be employers encouraging their domestics to take up the offer.....???

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## dianezenga

You know guys,  reading these posts, you could be talking about the US too.  Crime is rising, prices are outrageous, fuel is $5.00 gallon in some areas, the housing market is not good.  It is a sad state of affairs it seems in the entire world.  It is sad that people feel they are not safe in their own homes and cannot protect their families.  I do not know about SA but I know the US government does not do enough when it comes to rising fuel costs and such.  Why doesn't the President just say Enough already?  The war in Iraq?  I will not even go there.  Hang in there SA!

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## Dave A

I hear you Diane. When it comes to oil prices in particular, that's clearly a global issue. It's in the capacity to absorb and adjust these shocks where we probably differ most. A question of scale on multiple fronts, really.

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