# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Brand new invalid COC

## ians

So i get an inquiring to do some work for a friend of a friend.

I setup a meeting with the customer on site ...i get to site early and walk around the property.

It is noted that DB covers are missing ...lights dont have covers ...so the wires are exposed.

Outside lights are not weatherproof... no labeling on any of the DB's ...there are actually so many things i am not gona list all of them.

I tell the customer that i cannot do any work on the site because the electrical installation is not up to standard and i would require a COC for the building before i start doing any work.

We walk through the building and i point out a few of the important issues like no cover on the main DB and exposed 3 phase buss bars.

Customer contacts me to start work... he indicates that he has a valid COC issued by the property managements approved installation electrician.

I put my blinkers on because i can see simple things that are not done ...but not life threatening... i have a deadline to meet and i have too much work to fuss with shyte like fraudulent COC's they are as common as hookers Glenwood.  


So i start ...the very first job is to replace the metal light as you walk in the front door... with another metal light... imagine that no earth wire ... anyway i move on ...get to the next metal light ...no earth wire... and i mean no earth wire ...not just not connected ...NO EARTH WIRE... by the 6 th one i have had enough and request the COC ...get the contact number from the COC and call the person who signed the COC (done on the 15 November 2019) 

I ask the person about the lights and why he didnt test for earth continuity ...he tells me the lights where all plastic at the time of the test ...and that he heard that someone had changed the lights ...no actually i am on site to change the lights.

Here's the part that really got me in stitches ..."I spent a whole week on site doing repairs" so the COC must be compliant ...really ...i must remember that the next time i issue a dud COC ...but i spent a week doing repairs so the it must be valid.

A tip for anyone issuing a COC ... you can work for a year on site doing repairs doesnt mean the COC is valid... until you actually carry out a visual inspection and tests using the correct test equipment...which includes earth continuity to metal lights and metal light switch covers... and it passes... is the COC actually valid.

Before you start working on a site which is not compliant... makes sure you make the customer aware that ther eare visible faults and they might require a COC for the property.

This is why i took pictures of everything as i was going ...called the customer and a witness and contacted the property management agent ... I can tell you right now as i sit here that when the person who signed over the COC arrives on site ...the first thing he is going to say is that his COC is no longer valid because i am working on the site ...let me put you in the picture... it doesnt work like that... what is going to happen ...i will complete my work and add a supplement COC (which i cant issue until he issues a valid COC) to his COC for the work i did only ...his COC is still the main  COC for the rest of the property....this is why it is extremely important to detail exactly what you do on site and take pics. 

I noticed the dimmers are not compatible with the LED lamps ...so they flicker... imagine that i open the switch to find that all the returns are black wires... some of the black wires have been used to connect to the red live... earth wires hanging loose (not connected to anything) in the switch boxes... it just gets worse as i open up and expose the crap.

The real scary part is this building is managed by a very well known property management group... it seems these property management companies dont have a good record for using legit companies for inspections... still waiting 2 years later for the company which signed over the COC to complete the fault list... for a building one of my customers is renting..

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## ians

At what point is the earth on a light fitting not required ...for example you dont need an earth for a 6" plastic gallery... right?

It gets more complicated... if you have a metal frame light fitting with PVC lamp holders do you require an earth?

If you have a metal frame light fitting were the termination is done in a metal enclosure... but the lamp holders are pvc or porcelain... do you require an earth?

But light fittings do not form part of an electrical installation... so why bother with all these silly questions... and if so why does the light even have to be approved... if the customer can buy a light fitting at the China mall (selling thousands of electrical components and light fittings) and fit it without an earth ...because the light doesnt have an earth connection point... we should know better because it is our job to know better ...but why would a customer know any better... he walks into a shop and buys an electrical device... how are they suppose to know about SANS regulations and approvals... in fact even if i buy a light fitting... i just assume it is approved because it is sold at an electrical wholesaler... they wouldnt sell a product unless it is approved... because like the electrical industry... they have to comply... do they ? 

Now it gets really interesting... i dont supply the light fittings (the customer supplier the fittings) ...they are not included in a COC... so i dont need to issue a COC because i am just replacing fittings... a COC has already been issued for the entire electrical installation... so i just invoice and walk away... no earth wires ...its not my problem.

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## ELECT 1

I would have asked to see the 'electricians' accreditation. I am afraid this type of stuff is happening all over the country each and every day.
As you say simple stuff, easy to change and do, but nothing done.
The electrician was unlucky this time as he was caught out on this job. All the others he probably signed off to unsuspected customers.
I find that everyone wants to get the cheapest, and i suppose this was in that category.

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## ians

> I would have asked to see the 'electricians' accreditation. I am afraid this type of stuff is happening all over the country each and every day.
> As you say simple stuff, easy to change and do, but nothing done.
> The electrician was unlucky this time as he was caught out on this job. All the others he probably signed off to unsuspected customers.
> I find that everyone wants to get the cheapest, and i suppose this was in that category.


The scary part as i mentioned is he accredited and does inspection for a large property management group in Durban... my customer is just renting... the only reason there was a COC done for the building was because i pointed out all the illegal wiring during the site visit to do the quote... otherwise the property management group would have been quite happy to rent it to my customer in the state it was in.

It is one thing not knowing better or when stuff is "hidden" ...however when a DB has exposed 3 phase bussbars... any person would think maybe that is not right. 

the other thing i explained to the customer... which they were not aware of ... they become responsible for the electrical installation the day they sign the lease agreement ... so even if i work on the site ... it doesnt make me responsible even though i am a master electrician ...it is still their responsibility to make sure the electrical installation is kept up to standard... however if they are smart ...they will employ the services of a suitably qualified person to make sure the installation is up to standard and kept in a reasonably safe state.

It would be interesting to see how an insurance company would handle a fire claim caused by an installation which has an invalid COC issued... what i did  notice during the last 2 claims where an assessor was sent to investigate... they ask certain question ...just make sure you have the right answers... my customer got R30 k because we had taken addition measures to ensure the installation was protected.

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## ians

I think i have been fair ...the fella and his teams where on site to sort out all the faults i pointed out... it runs out not only the light i am working on had no earth not one of the lights in the entire building had no earth continuity ...he feels he has dont his bit to ensue the COC is now valid... now we get a second opinion and send him the inspection report with the costs for the retest ...and a quote to carry out all the repairs required to bring the building up to standard... lets see where it goes... by the way this is a public place not just a house.

This electrical industry and its COC system is money making joke.

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