# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Kitchen appliances - recommendations?

## Basment Dweller

I have a tenant moving in on the 1st Oct and they've asked me to install a dishwasher, fridge and washing machine/tumble dryer combo...any recommendations on brands and models? I'm going to go to Makro, Game etc this weekend...

They also need me to install blinds.

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## Houses4Rent

Did the tenant rent it as is when s/he signed? If so why now asking/demanding all those things? Blinds might be a good idea, but they can buy the rest. Otherwise next they ask you for couch and table and chairs and TV etc and before you know it you are ending up with a furnished place and get paid for an unfurnished place. Furnished is always more headaches, damages, breakages, repairs etc. Study your market and if its predominantly unfurnished I suggest you stick to unfurnished. Otherwise you might find it difficult to let it furnished the next time round. If you sell all that gear again you are losing a lot of money. Or you say you pay half and they pay half and then buy second hand to start with.

Makro is now an online shop and often has better prices than Game I find.
Unless there is a space constraint don;t buy combo's. If that brakes down you loose two in one go.
Don't buy fancy and expensive.

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Basment Dweller (13-Sep-14)

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## Basment Dweller

The tenant hasn't moved in yet and is offering 28k/month for this unit...I'm still gathering the details so not sure about how qualified this tenant is, but if they are I don't mind installing some gear to get them set up, I would have to have the lease signed and deposit paid before I budge of course.

But totally agree with you on the pain in the ass furnishing houses is. I'd rather take less pay then have to manage all that crap then have to throw everything away when the tenant moves on.

I'm normally accomodating with tenants, some years ago I built a kitchen for a tenant. I quoted him, he paid cash, I picked up one of those zimbo carpenters outside the builders and we built a new kitchen from scratch with granite worktops and oven/hob for less than 30k, took about a week to complete...was a good deal in the end and that kitchen is still in good nick...

As far as appliances are concerned people often have to sell their top loaders since they dont' fit when moving into apartments.

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## Houses4Rent

I am aware that tenant has not moved in yet. Before a tenant is not qualified and approved I would not even waste any time looking at extra's.
The question is what was your market related asking price unfurnished? If it was R28k you will lose.

If the tenant pays I am happy to do a lot of things too which add value to my house.

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## reuphk

Seems like your tenant wants just the white appliances i.e. semi furnished.  This is actually a norm for company tenants.  So, lets do the math.
Take the cost of the appliances.  Take the lease period.  Divide the two.  If this is equal or more than the amount they are paying extra on the lease...
At the end of the lease, your tenants has paid for the appliances which remains yours and allows you to rent the place for more in future.
Unless this causes a cashflow issue for you, it is a good option.

Game has a policy that if you find it elsewhere cheaper, they will give you at the same price less 0.1%.  This is only applicable on the brands they stock.
You do not say where you are based, but another option is to look for companies that supply this type of appliances direct.  An example is Young Pioneers in Woodmead area.  They sell Samsung and LG goods.  You can get appliances from them at around 75% of the price in the retail market.
Hi-Fi Corp is also good with prices and so is Makro.  Buy decent brands with guarantees so you can pass this to your tenant in case anything goes wrong and the appliances needs repairs (keep your pain to a minimum).
Personally, I dont like the combo machines, issue if they break, but that is a personal preference.
Added value to your place, dont forget to write if off against tax expense.

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Basment Dweller (14-Sep-14)

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## Basment Dweller

Thanks for all the input, yeah I think it works out in my favour for the rent they are offering I was only expecting around 22k for this unit and they offered 28 so more than enought to pay for the appliances. If the tenant qualifies then I don't mind installing and maintianing.

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## Houses4Rent

> Thanks for all the input, yeah I think it works out in my favour for the rent they are offering I was only expecting around 22k for this unit and they offered 28 so more than enought to pay for the appliances. If the tenant qualifies then I don't mind installing and maintianing.


In that case sure, go buy the stuff.
Careful with Hifi Corp though. Make sure its not a grey import which affects the warranty - I have forgotten the details. Never ever buy their house brand made in China. My client did that, it broke, Hifi had ditched that supplier and no spares could be sourced and nothing generic could be found either.

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## Samu

basement dweller where are you based. i might need the help of that Zimbo to help revamp my kitchen. bought a house in windsor east in Jhb. moving in Nov this year.

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## Basment Dweller

Samu unfortunately that carpenter went back to zim and I lost touch with the guy..which is a pity because he was really talented

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## Basment Dweller

Latest update:

Prospective tenant came back with the rental applications: 

- British national on a 14 month contract
- Sales Director of what appears to be an engineering company
- Married no kids or pets
- Born 1957
- Salary 6416.67 Pounds/month (on payslip)
- Housing allowance 4152 Pounds/month (on payslip)
- TPN checks out
- Offer R28k/month rental plus one month's deposit
- Wants appliances installed

All seems good on paper, will probably sign lease with this tenant.

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## Houses4Rent

TPN has him on file as a foreigner? I doubt that.

Contact his employer (HR manager) to verify his employment and income. It hat after tax or before tax? He should make R78k after tax to male R28k affordable
Anybody van make up payslips....
What about his bank statements?

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## Basment Dweller

TPN has records because it appears he's been in SA for a while and rented from a local landlord. Payslip says his net pay is 5771.40 pounds (R102947.47) per month.

Haven't received any bank statements.

Googled his name, linkedin profile shows he's employed with this company and has over 500+ connections.

Payslip could be doctored but looks legit. Contacted HR resource at his company to verify that he works there and earns this money. Still waiting for reply.

Made email contact with his previous landlord who says he was an excellent tenant, paid on time a rental in the upper 20k's.

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## Houses4Rent

Sounds all good, but I would not place any tenant without bank statements. Big earners are often big spenders and he might be permanently in the red, have bounced DO's, returned payments etc. which you cans see on statements.

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## flaker

sigh,   with his salary, boy, 60% is good enough for me. & when the shit flies (politically) he's on the next plane home.

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## reuphk

> TPN has records because it appears he's been in SA for a while and rented from a local landlord. Payslip says his net pay is 5771.40 pounds (R102947.47) per month.
> 
> Haven't received any bank statements.
> 
> Googled his name, linkedin profile shows he's employed with this company and has over 500+ connections.
> 
> Payslip could be doctored but looks legit. Contacted HR resource at his company to verify that he works there and earns this money. Still waiting for reply.
> 
> Made email contact with his previous landlord who says he was an excellent tenant, paid on time a rental in the upper 20k's.



Sounds like a good option to me.  There are many expats who rent properties whilst working for the companies in SA.  The only other thing you could possibly do if you were really still concerned is to ask his employer to co-sign the lease.  But, really, I think you are more than good to go.  Happy shopping for appliances and well done on increasing the value of your property with that deal.

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## Houses4Rent

As I said it sounds good, but better safe than sorry. Why are you not looking at bank statements? If the applicant refuses them the alarm bells should go on.
Remember the worse paying tenants are in the above R12000 rent category....

I also find it odd that this applicant offered so much more rent. That in combination with the missing bank statements would make me nervous. 

I doubt an employer would even remotely consider to co-sign to be honest. Even if they do good luck with trying to hold them to it being overseas.

And the fact that the tenant could be gone with the next plane is a risk not an advantage.

Anyway, let us know how it goes.

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## Basment Dweller

New data point just in, HR confirms his employment and salary.

Actually what I should've done is insisted from the start that 3 month bank statements is part of the original application, the problem now is going back and asking for more info might wobble the deal a bit and create more hoop jumping. 

Pesky letting agent wants to close deal asap to get comm and might move tenant to another unit in the complex.

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## Houses4Rent

Wait a second. There is a letting agent involved? Why did this letting agent not ask for 3m statements from the word go then? More alarm bells go on. I thought you are sourcing your own tenant.

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## Basment Dweller

Nope letting agent sourced it, probably too lazy to ask and wants the shortest route to closing the deal therefore no 3 month statement. Given the tenants credentials and the positive reference of previous landlord I'm going with it, asking to cough up statements at this point might botch the deal.

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## Houses4Rent

Next time do it yourself or find yourself a decent agent and sign a mandate with same outlining exactly what you expect to get for the agreed commission. Let me guess, no written mandate was done here?

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## Basment Dweller

Situation is a little more complicated than that...yes there was mandate with this estate agency, we were development partners in this JV and our development partner hired them to sell the units which they did, of which we kept 5 for ourselves.

We are going through a 'hand over' phase now, units are being transfered out and our partnership is being dissolved (project was a success partners are moving on), technically I don't have full control yet, site is still a mess as we are doing finishes and we don't allow anyone on site yet. We get the keys to the units from the 1st of Oct and until then I have to work with these agents and until everythings handed over etc etc...at the moment I'm just hustling to get things movin but it's a little frustrating...all diffificult to explain if you're not exposed to the complexities.

Neverthless, keep the pragmatic input comin' Mr Houses4Rent I see you are a man of no compromises when it comes to tenant placement!

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## Houses4Rent

I see. However, 3m bank statements must be standard (and part of a mandate) for anybody who vets a potential tenant.

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## Basment Dweller

Latest update:

Agent wants 8% + VAT and same fee if tenant renews. Lease is signed by the tenant and ready to go. Agent's fee is a little high but the deal still works out to more than what I was expecting from this unit.

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## Houses4Rent

You seem surprised about the 8%. Once again, was there no agreement in place before?

Anyway, fee should be much lower on renewal, no marketing, no vetting etc.

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## Basment Dweller

Marketing of the properties started with the developer and then was handed to me once I signed the sales agreements so yeah I got shnide on the deal a bit (was expecting 5% but instead was charged 8%). 

In the interest of closing the deal and moving things along I agreed anyway and signed the lease, deal is still sweet considering the rental and tenant.

I definitely DID NOT agree to renewal fees and never will. Agent renewal fees are outright extortion in my opinion. These bloody agents just want me to take all the risk and do all the work and ride me for comm all the way year after year, f*ck that. 

This is why I HATE realtors!

Moving forward, I have drafted a service level agreement and will have it signed by the agents before doing anymore deals on the remaining units. Keys will be handed to me on the 1st of OCT, I'll be able to take people to the property myself, take pics/videos and do proper marketing.

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## Houses4Rent

We only charge a small lease renewal fee, an admin fee rather, to the tenant, not the owner.

But we do get monthly commission, so might be different. I usually decline if an owner who just wants us to find me a tenant and then walk away. I think it costs the owner too much and is not value for money. We are very niche and do rather well what we do. So I only offer stuff which I would happy to buy myself. I actually do buy it myself as I run my own properties the same way I run my clients properties. If owner is around s/he can easily place a tenant him/herself and save a whack.

And yes, almost all selling and letting agents are useless. I fully agree.

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## reuphk

@Basmemt dweller, I cannot agree with your sentiment more!  I have one property in a similar deal (7% rental placememt fee and 5% renewal fee).  They do NOTHING!  The agreement was that the tenant will pay water as billed.  So we send the bill to the agent.  Nothing happens.  A couple of months and my administrator calls them to find out whats going on (they already had their fee and the tenant pays directly into our account so they dont even have sight of payments), they tell us that they dont deal with that we have to speak to the tenants ourselves.  2 months before renewal they call to say we owe them the renewal fee.  Now both the tenant and us were in agreement that 0 value add equals 0 payment.  I refused to pay, the tenant "refused" to move and we simply did a new agreement with the tenant directly.   I would normally not negate on a deal but with this one (my hubby signed originally thinking they would deliver a service and the fee is ok) my view was "sue me".  Needless to say they did nothing.  Just like they would have if the tenant messed up...

@houses4rent: you sound like a great agent.  I have been looking for someone who understand the market and what landlords want.  If you ever have a deal where the numbers make sense, let me know, and we'll do it.  Monthly fees make sense - you're in the same as us, rental guarantee of 3 months and you deal with any evictions if needed, plus you run the property like your own is worth a 10% commission in my book.  I hope you deliver, but I'm sure you'll have landlord references we can check out (we should list agencies on TPN).  If you ever get a deal where you have units available to purchase and rent out, let me know

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## Houses4Rent

Hi reuphk

We charge more than 10%, because we do much more. And yes, I understand what is important to an investor, because I am one myself, which kicked of my career change in the first place. 

Unfortunately or fortunately rather we never sell anything as we are not estate agents. So a typical client of us has a property and wants it managed by us and gives us  a mandate.

Testimonials are here:
http://www.houses4rent.co.za/landlordtestimonials.php

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## Basment Dweller

Ended up buying three appliances from Game:

Defy dishwasher R3899
Hisense 359L fridge/freezer combo R3899
Washing machine dryer combo R6999
Negotiated discout with Makro quote -R660
Total inc delivery R14377

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