# General Business Category > Scam Alert Forum >  Scammed!

## Neville Bailey

My poor Margaret got roundly scammed in the past few days.

As some of you know, she runs two stationery shops and a Cardies store.

On 24th December she received a call from a certain Mark Lyle, ostensibly from Apple i-Store, asking for a quotation for 25 reams of A4 paper. Margaret duly emailed him a quotation, amounting to just over R5,700, which he accepted. He then faxed a proof of an EFT payment from his Capitec bank account, and Margaret went to her ABSA branch to get their assurance that it was legitimate, which they confirmed.

On the strength of the proof of payment, she allowed him to collect the stock from her store. As of yesterday morning, the EFT was not yet reflecting on her ABSA account, but she assumed that it was because the EFT was made from a different bank and the delay was due to the public holidays.

Then, yesterday, she got another call from Mark, asking if he could order another 25 reams of paper. Margaret sent him another quotation, which was slightly less than the first, due to the lower grade of paper, which he again accepted. Once again, a proof of EFT payment was emailed through (see attachment) and he collected the goods later in the morning.

When I checked Margaret's ABSA account last night, I became suspicious when the first EFT payment was still not reflecting. I then looked more carefully at the faxed proof of payment for the first order, and the email relating to the second order and then I became more worried. The faxed proof of payment indicated that it was faxed from an internet cafe, and Mark's email address was appleistorenorth@mac.hush.com - very odd indeed.

Telephonic enquiries with the Apple i-Store at Gateway Shopping Centre confirmed that there was no Mark Lyle working for Apple i-Store.

Margaret is paying a visit to the local Capitec branch to ascertain whether or not the proof of payments were genuine (but reversed), or whether they were pure fraudulent documents, and that Mark Lyle did not even have a Capitec account.

Naturally Margaret is beside herself - R11,000 is a lot of money in anyone's language.

Be warned!

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## AndyD

Sorry to hear this Neville this type of scum just take a gap where they can. I suppose the only way to prevent this is to wait the 2 days for funds to be cleared. I have to be honest, the banks also don't help, there's no reason nowadays that it should take days for funds to clear between banks if it's an electronic payment, if they can clear payments immediately within the same bank there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do the same with the other major banks....apart from they're collecting interest from their transit accounts I guess.

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## Citizen X

This is disturbing! The proof of payment looks very legit! I think that in cases such as these, one will just have to wait for the money to clear and then release goods...

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## Citizen X

> Sorry to hear this Neville this type of scum just take a gap where they can. I suppose the only way to prevent this is to wait the 2 days for funds to be cleared. I have to be honest, the banks also don't help, there's no reason nowadays that it should take days for funds to clear between banks if it's an electronic payment, if they can clear payments immediately within the same bank there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do the same with the other major banks....apart from they're collecting interest from their transit accounts I guess.


You can draw saswich from any atm immediately so there's no real reason why funds shouldn't appear immediately etf that is..

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## San02

I fell prey to this last month...

I received a pdf  proof from a buyer confirming his deposit into my account...a week latter the money still hadn't cleared. He refuses to answer my phone calls or reply to my emails.

Turns out there are numerous sites available that will allow you to covert any word doc to a pdf & vice versa.....

LESSON LEARNT...

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## Justloadit

Never release any goods, until there is confirmation of the money in your account, irrespective of how much your customer  complains.

You will note the ones that want immediate service are the scamsters.

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## Didditmiself

About 10 years ago my son advertised that his computer, screen and accessories were for sale. He received 1 or 2 responses. One guy said if he brought a bank guaranteed cheque could he take the machine away as soon as he paid for it? When he arrived with his "brodda" they looked at the computer, asked all the right questions. We in turn looked at the cheque (Standard bank) and it looked like the real MC Coy. Everything (even the feel of the paper) including the 'ACB' logo on the side of the cheque was there. They were in no rush and this made it even more convincing and eventually left after about a hour. They even asked for a discount (i.e. although the cheque was made out for the advertised amount would we give them back R200 in cash as a discount?) which we refused. Anyway, we deposited the cheque and we noticed a credit and then a reversal on our statement at the end of the month. (In those days internet banking was relatively unheard of). Well we were all caught 'hook,line & sinker'. From the moment we heard their accents (Nigerian) we should have been on our guard. We said to the bank that this can't be correct as it's a bank cheque. They said it was part of a batch of stolen cheque books which scamsters have misappropriated. An advert appeared in the local paper/s warning the public that a batch of cheque books had been stolen but we never saw it! The cell phone numbers they gave us also went unanswered.
So yes, Justloadit, I agree with you. Do not release the goods until you have confirmation that the money is in your account. Tough titty if the customers complain. Luckily the amount involved was only R7000 but 10 years ago that was still quite a lot! One positive thing came out of that: we don't trust anybody now with cheques and only if the eft shows on the printout (we have internet banking at home now), then we give the goods.

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## flaker

Hi Neville,very sorry to hear of the mishap. may i just enquire. Did Absa see a credit in Margaret's account OR did they say it was legit after just seeing the capitec proof of payment? Thanks

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## Neville Bailey

> Did Absa see a credit in Margaret's account OR did they say it was legit after just seeing the capitec proof of payment? Thanks


They only saw the proof of payment document which, it now seems, was forged.

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## Kornflake

Another scam is where they send you proof of eft payment, but in reality a (stolen/cloned) cheque was deposited, and is then returned after 2 or 3 days. Always confirm that eft deposits were in fact efts, and not cheques, before releasing goods

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## Dave A

> They only saw the proof of payment document which, it now seems, was forged.


I wonder if they might be deemed culpable based on their giving an expert opinion?

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## Neville Bailey

Can you believe it - the scamster has just phoned and asked for a further 40 boxes of paper!

Margaret has advised the police lieutenant handling the case to arrange a trap.

We are now awaiting the "proof of payment" and then we will do the "delivery". 

Either the scamster is really stupid/greedy or he thinks Margaret is stupid.

Watch this space...

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## Mike C

This is quite exciting!  Please keep us posted.

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## PeterCarruthers

I am sorry to you about the challenges, Neville.

That PDF confirmation is very easy to forge.  Simply take a picture of a legitimate payment, and then change the details. Something like *Snagit* would allow you to do that easily. 

I fear that direct deposit as prepayment has reached its past-due date. The South African banks are not interested enough in the problem to do anything about it that adds any value to the lives of us business owners.  Without them carrying the pain, they have no incentive.

I hope you catch him.

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## Chrisjan B

I've no words.....
Mouth is hanging open...
Arrogant *assh*le...

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## Perform Computers

Hopefully he doesn't read this thread :/

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## adrianh

You must put a live webcam in the shop so we can all see his face when the cops go "Smile for the camera"

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## Dave A

> You must put a live webcam in the shop so we can all see his face when the cops go "Smile for the camera"


I was hoping for the same. Unfortunately...




> We are now awaiting the "proof of payment" and then we will do the "delivery".


At the very least, I'm hoping it works out. Photos or video of the culprit would just be a (very popular) bonus.

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## AndyD

Yeah, a nice mug shot on 'Neville's Pic Of The Day' thread would certainly be a crowd pleaser. Good luck catching the tosser, I eagerly await the news that he's behind bars.

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## ians

Personally i wouldnt trust the police, i would look at using a PI like brad Nathanson, and get my money or whatever they find worthy of claiming in return, or drop him off and put word out on the radios for the tow truck drivers to have some fun, i sure that will teach him a lesson. 

http://bradnathanson.co.za/

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## Neville Bailey

What a day it has been! 

Mark Lyle phoned Margaret to confirm the delivery time and venue, and it was agreed that he would hire a bakkie to collect the stock at Margaret's warehouse at 3.30pm. 

Margaret then contacted the detective, who said he and his men would wait for us and the scamsters outside the warehouse gates, in plain clothes and at a discrete distance away, at 3pm. 

Margaret and I then drove to the warehouse and, as arranged with Mark, waited outside the gates for the hired bakkie. It was reassuring to see the two cars parked on either side of us, each about a block away. 

Mark kept in touch with us, letting us know when the bakkie would arrive as well as its description, which we promptly relayed to the detectives. 

Our hearts started pounding as we saw the bakkie approach us, with two black guys in it, and we opened the gate with the remote and drove in, letting the bakkie to follow us in. 

We parked and Margaret opened the warehouse door and they started loading the bakkie. In the meantime, I reopened the gates with the remote and the two unmarked cop cars swooped in. 

Three detectives, one white and two black, approached the two delivery guys and questioned them. The guys acted dumb and claimed that they were simply hired by Mark to pick up stock for him. The detectives told them that, unless they led us to Mark, their bakkie would be impounded and they would be arrested on the spot. 

They said they would cooperate, so one of them was told to get in one of the police cars, while the other was told to drive the bakkie to Mark. Both their cell phones were confiscated. 

Margaret and I were told to go home and that we would be contacted when they had some news for us. 

We had hardly got home, when the senior detective phoned us to please meet him at the police station. 

We arrived there, and saw the bakkie parked there, occupied by one of the detectives. When we walked into the charge office we saw the two bakkie guys in cuffs, together with a third guy. Then we were called to the other side of the police station to find the other two detectives and three cars, with constables guarding them. We saw a fourth guy in cuffs in one of the cars. 

The detectives explained that they had been led to a shop in town, where they arrested the two other guys and found all 50 boxes of paper, which was now filling up the three cars in front of us! 

Mark Lyle was nowhere to be found. 

The detectives then followed us to Margaret's shop, where they helped us carry the boxes into our safe keeping. 

So, four crooks are in jail tonight and Margaret has all her stolen goods back. 

The detectives will now cross examine the four guys to see if they can nab Mark Lyle. 

We are both pleasantly surprised at the efficiency of the detectives and their friendly assistance in getting the stock returned.

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Blurock (06-Jan-13), Dave A (03-Jan-13), Mike C (03-Jan-13), wynn (03-Jan-13)

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## Mike C

Well done!  Kudo's to the police.  It is so good to hear a success story for a change.  Thanks for keeping us posted Neville.

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## adrianh

Excellent.

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## Garf

Neville that is a great story to start the new year - really super to get positive news, especially catching a scammer!

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## Dave A

Good stuff!  :Thumbup:

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## AndyD

Glad Margaret got her stock back, at least she's not out of pocket now. I only hope the elusive Mr Lyle is found and arrested.

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## IanF

Neville I have been following this thread, well done with catching the crooks. With PDFs I always look at the properties and you can see which programme produced it. The one you sent was produced in Word. 80gsm white bond is the biggest selling paper in SA so I was surprised at the prices when it would be cheaper at Makro. My paper rep just laughs when I say I can get it cheaper at Makro, with no terms and no delivery it is not worth it for me. 
I remember when I started when some shops where selling flyers for the cost of my paper and my rep said that is paper from the back of the truck, I was more naive then.

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## ians

It great to hear stories end this way, and the fact that she got all her stuff back makes it even better, well done to the detectives, personally i have no faith in the police, but it is good to hear there are still some good ones left.

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## Mark Atkinson

Definitely a better ending than it could have been. I'm glad that the police were efficient and that Margaret got her goods back, Neville.

Just with regards to the PDF - the Capitec logo is slightly pixelated. I'm very wary with proof of payment to begin with, but if it has a pixelated logo or any other trait that seems a little dodgy, it's best to wait for funds to clear in your account first.

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## Blurock

Wow! Good news Neville. Shows what can be done if the police do their job.

Hats off to the officers involved! :Applaud:

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## ians

Now if they could just make south africa a safer place including our roads and freeways.

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## Zaledi

Hi Neville,

I am very sorry to hear about the scam. I can empathize with Margaret as we have had two such incidents happen to us last year. The first was for R12500.00 which they got away with and the second time we were a lot wiser or we would have been out of pocket to the tune of R35000.00. We do not release any goods unless the payment has reflected and confirmed by our bank.

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## pedrob

Happens to most of us i guess :Frown:  As is happens i been quite a good supporter of bid or buy, been a buyer for a few years now i have yet to come across a seller that actually asks for a proof of payment, normally they just let the buyer know that as soon as the cash reflects in their account and clears, then the goods will be released.

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## Neville Bailey



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AndyD (10-Jan-13), Dave A (10-Jan-13), wynn (11-Jan-13)

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## Dave A

Is that first "well dressed man" in the net?

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## Neville Bailey

> Is that first "well dressed man" in the net?


Unfortunately not yet. We are hoping that one of the 4 arrested guys will squeal...

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## desA

Fantastic. Glad it all ended so well. Your wife must be very relieved.

Kudos to the police services for their efficient work.

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## Didditmiself

Nev, nice to hear about a good ending to a bad experience! I think we've all learned a lot from this scenario. And well done to the Berea cops for sterling work!! :Clap:

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