# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  Will the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines save us? Don't be silly!!!

## Bandile Dlamini

·Dangerous for frail patients
10 Dead in Germany after Receiving Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine.
Initial cases reported in Norway had raised alarm. Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, said the assessments of the deaths suggest that common adverse reactions to mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have aggravated underlying illnesses and contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients. 
·Impossible distribution and storage conditions, low effective rate
The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine must be kept at 70℃ and can be kept in a regular fridge for just 5 days. It will be hard enough for many places within the United States to manage Pfizers super-cold vaccine, says Mei Mei Hu, cofounder and cochief executive of Covaxx, a company based in Hauppauge, N.Y., that is working on its own COVID-19 vaccine. And if its difficult in the U.S., its going to be virtually impossible in most emerging markets, such as Central and South America and many places in Africa, she says.
According to the WHO, up to 50% of vaccines will become ineffective and be wasted globally due to inadequate logistics infrastructure, which could translate to the loss of billions of vaccine doses, and even millions of lives. Other coronavirus vaccines in development will not need to be stored at ultra-cool temperatures.
·Immature technology
Pfizer has never manufactured a vaccine with technology that uses mRNA, but it has scaled up production capacity even as research was still under way.

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## Dave A

> low effective rate


Source?
As I recall, the clinical trials were claiming efficacy in excess of 90%!

I guess it was only a matter of time before a disinformation campaign for one or more of the vaccines landed up at this humble website  :Stick Out Tongue:

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

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## Justloadit

NEVER believe anything you read in social media!
In most cases it is false, and is driving a hidden agenda.

If in doubt do a simple Google search.

Each citizen of this planet called Earth has the duty to verify any information before passing it on to the next citizen.
If we do this, we will make Earth a better place.

You are wondering, "How do I do  a Google Search?"

Simple, take the first line, or even a few lines, highlight with your mouse, right click and press the right hand mouse button and select "Copy", now open a new web page, in the search bar, right click mouse button, and "Paste" the string copied, and press enter. Google will show you what it has found. There will be a number of web sites referring to the string request.
If the article is genuine, then pass it on, but if it is fake, then don't send it to your friends.

Copying the first line

10 Dead in Germany after Receiving Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine.

Google showed 
Social media posts misrepresent Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccinations in Germany

OK Fake news - the buck stops here! :Yes:

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## Kungawo Dlodlo

According to the report of Reuters, one study from scientists at Columbia University earlier on Wednesday showed antibodies generated by Pfizer Inc and BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine were significantly less effective against the South Africa variant.

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## Justloadit

> According to the report of Reuters, one study from scientists at Columbia University earlier on Wednesday showed antibodies generated by Pfizer Inc and BioNTechs COVID-19 vaccine were significantly less effective against the South Africa variant.


Yes this will probably happen, as the virus mutates every time it jumps a host.  It is still a far cry from the fake news
Pfizer-BioNTech-vaccine-elicits-antibodies-against-South-African-strain?

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## Dave A

There is definitely a concerted social media campaign against the Pfizer Inc and BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine. It has a similar signature to the disinformation campaign that came out of China about particularly the USA's Covid-19 troubles.

It does raise questions in my mind.
Why is this vaccine the target?
Or is it part of a more general anti-vaccination propaganda strategy?

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## Kungawo Dlodlo

> There is definitely a concerted social media campaign against the Pfizer Inc and BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine. It has a similar signature to the disinformation campaign that came out of China about particularly the USA's Covid-19 troubles.
> 
> It does raise questions in my mind.
> Why is this vaccine the target?
> Or is it part of a more general anti-vaccination propaganda strategy?


The government is going to spend a lot of money on vaccines that don't work against the new variants.
We have to build an extremely expensive ultra-low-temperature logistics system for this. 
Is it really worth it? 
I think EVERY citizen has the right to question that. All my questions are based on the FACTS. 

Are u a fan of Pfizer? Has Pfizer bought u off?

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## Andromeda

> The government is going to spend a lot of money on vaccines that don't work against the new variants.
> We have to build an extremely expensive ultra-low-temperature logistics system for this. 
> Is it really worth it? 
> I think EVERY citizen has the right to question that. All my questions are based on the FACTS. 
> 
> Are u a fan of Pfizer? Has Pfizer bought u off?


Pft...

Spoken like a true denier. I suggest you exercise your right to yourself and stop posting your dangerous stupidity on a public website. If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't. Leave those who do.

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

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## Andromeda

> All my questions are based on the FACTS.


This is the exact type of poop that gets me highly agitated. You put "FACTS" in capitals so now your whatsap followers think you must be right. I mean, you said "FACTS". In any event, the vaccines that we have purchased likely did not come from Pfizer, but of course you have inside information. Box.

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

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## Dave A

> The government is going to spend a lot of money on vaccines...


If you had stopped there, I would have found your interest more credible.




> Are u a fan of Pfizer? Has Pfizer bought u off?


My agenda here is well established over many years, and has absolutely no connection with Pfizer or any of their competitors. 
You on the other hand have arrived here proactively running down Pfizer as your first interest. Are you really provably objective, or being paid by one of the competitive suppliers to run Pfizer's vaccine solution down?

You should also remember I see all the other profiles from the same net neighbourhood that suddenly arrive and try to promote the same message. Coincidence? I suggest not  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## yraD63m

Firstly, Pfizer has never manufactured a vaccine with technology that uses mRNA, but it has scaled up production capacity even as research was still under way. Secondly, Pfizer Vaccine files leaked from EU containing proof of the vaccine's potential risks. well, I am little concerned!

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## Justloadit

> Firstly, Pfizer has never manufactured a vaccine with technology that uses mRNA, but it has scaled up production capacity even as research was still under way. Secondly, Pfizer Vaccine files leaked from EU containing proof of the vaccine's potential risks. well, I am little concerned!


Where is evidence of this please?
Making a statement with out collaborating evidence is fake news!

The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race
Because a company has never manufactured using a new process, does not mean that they do not have the capability to do so.
If this was the case, there would be no new technology available.

In future any statements made must be collaborated with evidence, either via a link or an official document which can be verified as genuine.

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## Blurock

There is so much false news, obviously by conspiracy theorists, but also by people who may have vested interests in promoting one above the other.
The world has become a cesspit of crime, corruption and misinformation.
I will adopt a wait and see attitude to see what works or not and what the side effects may be.

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## adrianh

> There is so much false news, obviously by conspiracy theorists, but also by people who may have vested interests in promoting one above the other.
> The world has become a cesspit of crime, corruption and misinformation.
> I will adopt a wait and see attitude to see what works or not and what the side effects may be.


Interesting view - I said very much the same thing in another post just now - the entire world is based on money grabbing fakery - from fake ads to sell rubbish on Wish to cars with fake exhausts - I believe nothing until proven by numerous unrelated / unaffiliated sources.

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## Dave A

> I believe nothing until proven by numerous unrelated / unaffiliated sources.


Which I believe is why we are seeing these widespread social media campaigns. Single (or low) source origin, but with many social media profiles across many social media sites. It is the manufacture of social "proof".

I've pretty much taken the view that where I see it on TFSA, I will point it out without letting it drown out the normal conversations. Kinda useful we don't have so much going on at any one time that it can be spotted fairly easily here.

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## adrianh

"Social proof" is a really interesting concept. My one daughter spends her entire life on Reddit and we often speak about issues that are raised and the debates that follow. It is abundantly clear that specific ideas are driven by groups of people and that "democracy rule" simply means that "Those who shout the loudest are the ones in control" - I agree with you - it is just like pure marketing - if you shove an idea on people often enough they simply build that idea into their being without thinking about it.

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## Justloadit

> if you shove an idea on people often enough they simply build that idea into their being without thinking about it.


Also known as Propoganda

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## adrianh

The problem is that our social media addicts are no longer just the receivers of Propaganda (whatever form it may take) but also the re-transmitters (knowingly and unknowingly) FB posts advertising "on behalf of" 90% of its base without their base even being aware of it.

This is really interesting....lots we don't know about going on behind the scenes

https://gizmodo.com/what-facebooks-p...you-1846125879

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## Blurock

Bored people also like to play games on social media, inviting their friends to do a IQ test/personality test/like my dog/cat/hamster or whatever. What they are actually doing is giving away very personal information such as location, personal preferences, likes, dislikes and maybe also their friend's contact and other details. Rather not play these games on FB as they are only collecting data for advertising or other ungodly campaigns.

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## Amahle Dladsa

I also saw the leaked files! I am so worried!!!

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## Amahle Dladsa

> Firstly, Pfizer has never manufactured a vaccine with technology that uses mRNA, but it has scaled up production capacity even as research was still under way. Secondly, Pfizer Vaccine files leaked from EU containing proof of the vaccine's potential risks. well, I am little concerned!


I also saw the leaked files! I am so worried!!!

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## Justloadit

> I also saw the leaked files! I am so worried!!!


FAKE NEWS!
Did you not see my comments earlier in this thread?
Did you follow the links showing the fake news?





> Where is evidence of this please?
> Making a statement with out collaborating evidence is fake news!
> 
> The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race
> Because a company has never manufactured using a new process, does not mean that they do not have the capability to do so.
> If this was the case, there would be no new technology available.
> 
> In future any statements made must be collaborated with evidence, either via a link or an official document which can be verified as genuine.





> NEVER believe anything you read in social media!
> In most cases it is false, and is driving a hidden agenda.
> 
> If in doubt do a simple Google search.
> 
> Each citizen of this planet called Earth has the duty to verify any information before passing it on to the next citizen.
> If we do this, we will make Earth a better place.
> 
> You are wondering, "How do I do a Google Search?"
> ...

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

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## yraD63m

It is reported that Pfizer and Moderna vaccines appear to be highly effective against the more transmissible variant of the virus first detected in Britain, but show a decreased ability to neutralize the strain now dominant in South Africa. Hope SA can survive this epidemic!

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## Justloadit

> It is reported that Pfizer and Moderna vaccines appear to be highly effective against the more transmissible variant of the virus first detected in Britain, but show a decreased ability to neutralize the strain now dominant in South Africa. Hope SA can survive this epidemic!


As requested before
So where did you find this report?
Doing a Google search, a number of news articles conflict whether the vaccines are effective or not. 
The way that many news reporters have acted recently, I would prefer to be directed to medical studies stating the facts.

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## adrianh

> As requested before
> So where did you find this report?
> Doing a Google search, a number of news articles conflict whether the vaccines are effective or not. 
> The way that many news reporters have acted recently, I would prefer to be directed to medical studies stating the facts.


I wouldn't worry too much about THE PEANUT GALLERY...who cares what nonsense they write...

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## Justloadit

> I wouldn't worry too much about THE PEANUT GALLERY...who cares what nonsense they write...


Unfortunately there are still many uninformed genuine internet users, who then become aware when this type of post is highlighted, and to then start questioning in the future. The more people questioning, the less fake news will be posted.
Same story as throwing the star fish back in the water. It starts with ONE.

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## ians

Let the herd enjoy their moments ... hopefully soon ... enough of them will have the shot ... and we can move on ... I can see the mask wearing trend is wearing off again and people are only wearing them were being forced to ... like entering a supermarket ... bussines is picking up ...more people are returning to work as production increases.

The only problem is mask and muttie sales will drop ... the herd will scatter and start to mingle and spread the word.

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## adrianh

My wife is getting the vaccine jab in the UK today. She is a live-in carer looking after the elderly so she is on the priority list. I think she has to go for the 2nd jab in 3 weeks time.

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## adrianh

> Unfortunately there are still many uninformed genuine internet users, who then become aware when this type of post is highlighted, and to then start questioning in the future. The more people questioning, the less fake news will be posted.
> Same story as throwing the star fish back in the water. It starts with ONE.


Fair enough - you are right of course.

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## yraD63m

A committee advised the government had grouped COVID-19 vaccines into three groups and those considered for immediate use were the Johnson & Johnson , Pfizer and Moderna shots. In a second group where South Africa is interested but requires more technical information are Russias Sputnik V vaccine and shots from Chinas Sinopharm and Sinova. A third group where vaccines may not be suitable for immediate use in South Africa includes the AstraZeneca and Novavax vaccines. Hope all of vaccines are effective against the variant coronavirus!

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## adrianh

Why do people keep posting this nonsense - Don't you have a real job?

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## Derlyn

There's a new one doing the rounds.

TIPKAF

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## Blurock

The Covid 19 is similar to the flu virus, for which there still is no cure. Therefore we can expect to have the virus around for a very long time. Prepare yourself to get your jabs with your flu vaccine on an annual basis. I have adopted a wait and see attitude as there are so many conflicting reports and speculation. Lets see what works and what not.

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## adrianh

> The Covid 19 is similar to the flu virus, for which there still is no cure. Therefore we can expect to have the virus around for a very long time. Prepare yourself to get your jabs with your flu vaccine on an annual basis. I have adopted a wait and see attitude as there are so many conflicting reports and speculation. Lets see what works and what not.


My wife has had the 1st Astra Zeneca jab a week or two ago in the UK - she should get the next one this week or next week. She seems to be fine. Her brother and his partner already had the two Astra Zenica jabs and they are fine too. His partner actually had Covid and recovered before the jabs. This is very serious stuff - My wife sends me pics from the UK all the time and the entire place is locked down and downright desolate.

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## Derlyn

Call me uneducated. Call me what you like. I couldn't care.

Some things take time.  Plenty time.  One of them is making a vaccine that works.

Another one is making a 12 year old whisky ( Johnny Black ). It takes 12 years - period.
Many people have tried to make it quicker, however, all have failed dismally. Time is needed and there's just no way to speed up time.

The only way to know what the long term effects of a vaccine are, is to administer it to someone, wait 5 years and then you will know if the vaccine has had any adverse effects after 5 years of being administered. The time cannot, unfortunately be sped up.

The vaccines now being rolled out for tipkaf have been manufactured and tested in the last nine months. Who knows what the effects are going to be next year or the year thereafter ?

But then again, I am probably not educated enough to voice my opinion regarding vaccines, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but check out the following.

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/vaccine...idnt-vaccinate

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

Quoting one conspiracy theory site doesn't make you an expert!

When did you get a degree in biochemistry and virology?

Come on dude - get over yourself.

You speak of Critical Thinking - Critical Thinking is only useful if you have a grasp of ALL the facts - Critical Thinking does not mean to latch onto a conspiracy theory and run around telling the entire world that they are ALL wrong.

There are too many agencies from too many countries involved for this to be a big conspiracy. ...unless of course you believe the lizard people are running each and every government, biotech company and sommer all the medical personnel all over the planet....except for Alex Jones who happens to be a Martian!

The bottom line is that you are free to believe whatever nonsense you like, but....if you do not adhere to laws layed down to protect others from your actions then you are going to get locked up. You are welcome to brood about all this without your mask in tjoekie...

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Andromeda (25-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

> Quoting one conspiracy theory site doesn't make you an expert!
> 
> When did you get a degree in biochemistry and virology?
> 
> Come on dude - get over yourself.
> 
> You speak of Critical Thinking - Critical Thinking is only useful if you have a grasp of ALL the facts - Critical Thinking does not mean to latch onto a conspiracy theory and run around telling the entire world that they are ALL wrong.
> 
> There are too many agencies from too many countries involved for this to be a big conspiracy. ...unless of course you believe the lizard people are running each and every government, biotech company and sommer all the medical personnel all over the planet....except for Alex Jones who happens to be a Martian!
> ...


Like I said  ...  I'm not educated enough  ....    take it with a pinch of salt  ...  who mentioned conspiricy ?  
Can't you read DUDE ?   :Big Grin:  :Smile:  :Big Grin:

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## Andromeda

From the Daily Mail. A real newspaper with proper contact details:
JOHN HUMPHRYS: But this week it's hard for an old Remainer like me, waiting to have his second jab, not to muse on his referendum vote back in 2016 (bottom right: people prepare for Brexit) and wonder whether he might have voted differently if he'd known then what he knows now. 
*Vaccination against Covid saves lives. Denial of the vaccine kills people*. (My emphasis)
It's one thing for the bureaucrats of Brussels or Whitehall to squabble over the finer details of how the Northern Ireland border might (or might not) operate. It's something else again for the EU - led by the risible figure of Ursula von der Leyen (left) - to threaten a vaccine war with the United Kingdom.

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## adrianh

> Like I said  ...  I'm not educated enough  ....    take it with a pinch of salt  ...  who mentioned conspiricy ?  
> Can't you read DUDE ?


Peace brother :-)

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## Derlyn

mmmmm .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Vz7tZLuBI

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## Andromeda

The RNA is published  Assemblies of putative SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding mRNA sequences for vaccines BNT-162b2 and mRNA-1.pdf

https://github.com/NAalytics/Assembl...-1273.docx.pdf

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## adrianh

Wasn't that information STOLEN from Moderna

looks like the old saying "PIRACY and REVERSE ENGINEERING is OK if it is for a 'GOOD CAUSE' " stands....

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9g...code-on-github

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## Andromeda

> Wasn't that information STOLEN from Moderna
> 
> looks like the old saying "PIRACY and REVERSE ENGINEERING is OK if it is for a 'GOOD CAUSE' " stands....


I don't think so, they were given some of the "leftovers".

Also:

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## adrianh

Dunno...




> The scientists were light on details about how they acquired the Moderna sample. “For this work, RNAs were obtained as discards from the small portions of vaccine doses that remained in vials after immunization; such portions would have been required to be otherwise discarded and were analyzed under FDA authorization for research use,” they said.


The quote comes from this page: https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9g...code-on-github

Don't get me wrong: I HATE BIG PHARMA - They are a bunch of really terrible profiteers.

I just wonder about this saying: "There is no right way to do the wrong thing"

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## Derlyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1txNvctXcEo

It seems as if the Astra Zeneca is not doing what it's supposed to do.

It's busy killing people.

Ah well !  Those that do not want to admit what's happening will call Desmond a conspiricy theorist and all sorts of names. That's expected.

Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

STOP THIS NONSENSE!!!!!!!

My wife and her family in the UK have already received the Astra Zeneca vaccine without issues. 

YOU MAKE OUT AS IF EVERYBODY ON THIS PLANET ARE STUPID - Except you and your conspiracy theory buddies.

Get a life - you are starting to get on my nerves!!!!

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## Derlyn

My brother
If I am working on your nerves, take a Calmette and skip by when you see my name.

My post was aimed at getting critical thinkers to think.

It was not aimed at agitating those who who cannot help themselves but to insult others.

I still love you, brother.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## adrianh

You are right - I am going to block you because you annoy me with your constant idiotic nonsense!

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## Derlyn

> You are right - I am going to block you because you annoy me with your constant idiotic nonsense!


Amen.

Now maybe those with open minds can carry on "debating" without having to be told how idiotic they are.
https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/uk-...0-3e46c88ac64b

For those who were distracted see,    
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1txNvctXcEo

It seems as if there is a slight problem with the Astra Zenica vaccine. Unfortunately this could not be established sooner because this vaccine has not undergone lengthy trials.

All the recipients of this vaccine are being used as guinea pigs.

Good luck.  I made my decision long ago.

Peace out   ...    Derek

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## Justloadit

From the video & article - 18.1million doses have been administrated, and 7 people died.
A death rate of 0.000,000,386%, versus approximately 3% of deaths from people who contracted Covid, and we are supposed to get alarmed by taking the vaccine?

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## Derlyn

> mmmmm .....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Vz7tZLuBI
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek


So youtube took down this video ( too much truth and no following the agenda )

This is what Nick has to say when interviewed by Alex Hogg.
https://www.biznews.com/global-citiz...be-nick-hudson

Listen and make up your own mind.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

Too much idiotic stupidity and fear mongering - that is why that garbage got banned!

"Listen and make up your mind" - I don't have to overdose on TIK to know that it is bad for me, likewise I don't have to listen to an uneducated moron to know that he is speaking garbage!

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## Derlyn

> Too much idiotic stupidity and fear mongering - that is why that garbage got banned!
> 
> "Listen and make up your mind" - I don't have to overdose on TIK to know that it is bad for me, likewise I don't have to listen to an uneducated moron to know that he is speaking garbage!


Get back in your box.

It is because of idiotic stupidity and fear mongering that you go around wearing a face nappy.

It is also because of idiotic stupidity and fear mongering that we were banned from taking a walk on the beach.

It was also because of idiotic stupidity and fear mongering that we were not allowed to buy a grilled chicken.

It was also because of idiotic stupidity and fear mongering that we are not allowed outside between 11pm and 4am.

That's what I call idiotic stupidity and fear mongering.

Now if you cannot debate like an adult without insulting everyone that does not agree with you   .....    rather get back in your box.

Peace out   ...   Derek

Oh  and its also idiotic stupidity and fear mongering to use a police helicopter in assisting to arrest a lone windsurfer on the westcoast.

I could go on and on   ............  

Let me know if maybe you agree.

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## Justloadit

> Brazil has recorded more than 4,000 Covid-related deaths in 24 hours for the first time, as a more contagious variant fuels a surge in cases.
> 
> Hospitals are overcrowded, with people dying as they wait for treatment in some cities, and the health system is on the brink of collapse in many areas.
> 
> The country's total death toll is now almost 337,000, second only to the US.
> 
> But President Jair Bolsonaro continues to oppose any lockdown measures to curb the outbreak.
> 
> He argues that the damage to the economy would be worse than the effects of the virus itself, and has tried to revert some of the restrictions imposed by local authorities in the courts.


 With news like this, I do not think that the pandemic is a farce.




> Sao Paulo, Brazil  Brazil has become a byword for COVID-19 mismanagement, but one city is being championed as a model of how to tackle the coronavirus.
> 
> Araraquara, an industrial city of 240,000 people in Sao Paulo state, 270km (168 miles) from the administrative capital of the same name, implemented a 10-day lockdown in February, including closing supermarkets and public transport, aggressively tested citizens and detected the presence of the more infectious P1 variant early.
> 
> Speaking to supporters outside the presidential residence on Tuesday, he criticised quarantine measures saying they were linked to obesity and depression and led to unemployment. He did not comment on the 4,195 deaths recorded in the past 24 hours.
> 
> To date, Brazil has recorded more than 13 million cases of coronavirus, according to the health ministry. Some 66,570 people died with Covid-19 in March, more than double the previous monthly record.

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## Blurock

@Derlyn, I think you must now put your money where your mouth is.
Go to your nearest hospital and ask to be admitted to the Covid ward where people are fighting for their lives.
Do not wear a mask. Spend some time there, maybe an hour or two.  Then come back and tell us first hand of your experience.

Talk is cheap and just as all the news programmes and discussions on TV, everyone has their own uninformed opinion.
I have stopped listening to all the crap and speculation as even the top scientists do not know all there is to this virus.

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## adrianh

LoL - shame man - here is a lolly for the little tantrum.

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## Derlyn

> You are right - I am going to block you because you annoy me with your constant idiotic nonsense!


Didn't think you were a man of your word.

You've just proved to everyone that you cannot be trusted or believed.

Better you keep that pack of Calmettes handy cause this lockdown thing ain't gonna end soon.

Oh how nice it is to be able to live without having to be constantly fearfull.

You should give it a try.  You might even enjoy it.    :Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin: 

Peace out   ...   Derek.

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## adrianh

LoL - Shame man - here is another lolly



Anyway, enough now with this nonsense - please go away.

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## adrianh

...about 100 blood clots in 25 million people

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/07/h...ntl/index.html

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## Derlyn

> LoL - Shame man - here is another lolly
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, enough now with this nonsense - please go away.


You will have to try a bit harder than that.
You gonna run out of lollipops soon.

Read the following.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1297637/

Might be helpful.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

> You will have to try a bit harder than that.
> You gonna run out of lollipops soon.
> 
> Read the following.
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1297637/
> 
> Might be helpful.
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek


I don't read anything that you promote - it isn't worth my time!

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## Derlyn

> I don't read anything that you promote - it isn't worth my time!


You had a peek, I know.

You can fool some,  not all.

Did you enjoy the article ?    :Smile:  :Smile:  :Thumbup: 

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

> You had a peek, I know.
> 
> You can fool some,  not all.
> 
> Did you enjoy the article ?   
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek


You don't know me very well - No I didn't and I'm not going to. I can't be bothered with your silliness!

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## Derlyn

> I can't be bothered with your silliness!


I cant remember sending you any lollipops.

Then you speak about silliness.

What a chop !

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## Derlyn

Of strawberries, bananas and smoothies.

https://lovinglifetv.com/the-coronav...ocide-exposed/

* Warning*  Not suitable for sensitive viewers or those who do not have an inquiring mind.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## Blurock

Some people will believe anything. I am really tired of this juvenile behaviour.

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## adrianh

> Some people will believe anything. I am really tired of this juvenile behaviour.


Children like to pull faces in the mirror to amuse themselves....one can only hope that the mirror has a loose frame!

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## Andromeda

> Some people will believe anything. I am really tired of this juvenile behaviour.


Some people have a passion for believing ... not just anything .... but pure crap. 
I really don't know how he has survived till now.

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## Derlyn

2018.   TB deaths in SA 63000.       No lockdown. No draconian regulations. 

2019.   TB deaths in SA 64000.       No lockdown. No draconian regulations.

Come 2020 / 2021   Covid 19 deaths 55340.       Lockdown, draconian regulations and emergency roll out of vaccines.

I have a question.
Maybe someone can enlighten me.

Why is more attention not given to the prevention of the spread and cure of TB which, by the official number of deaths, seems to be the biggest killer of all ?


Above stats from WHO.

Peace out   ...   Derek.

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## Justloadit

If there was no lock down, then the death figures would be far much higher.

The thing with statistics, is that one can swing the numbers to suit the narrative.

TB is a bacteria, where COVID is a virus, huge difference.

Being near someone with TB disease when they cough, sneeze, or even talk close to your face for an extended period of time puts you at risk for infection. 
Kissing, hugging, or shaking hands with a person who has TB doesn't spread the disease.

An interesting study on the term "Zohnerism", it plays both ways in this thread, and any reference to statistical numbers..




> Glassman coined the term "Zohnerism" to refer to "the use of a true fact to lead a scientifically and mathematically ignorant public to a false conclusion".


Please read this short article - Bending the truth is as bad as breaking it – Zohnerism

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## Andromeda

There are many parallels. See an informed analysis.https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/1.../fmb-2020-0179

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## Andromeda

And finally:
All children receive the BCG vaccine at birth in South Africa (but not in Europe and the Americas). It’s a live vaccine given to stimulate the baby’s immune system to build antibodies to protect against TB. The vaccine is protective against more severe forms of TB (like TB meningitis and TB lymph nodes) but not considered effective against Pulmonary TB. A person who’s infected (but not diseased) or has a TB contact may take a 6 month course of Isoniazid (an AntiTB drug) to prevent TB.
Credit: Wits University and the Donald Gordon Medical Centre. See http://www.dgmc.co.za/tuberculosis-in-south-africa

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## Derlyn

> If there was no lock down, then the death figures would be far much higher.
> 
> The thing with statistics, is that one can swing the numbers to suit the narrative.
> 
> TB is a bacteria, where COVID is a virus, huge difference.
> 
> Being near someone with TB disease when they cough, sneeze, or even talk close to your face for an extended period of time puts you at risk for infection. 
> Kissing, hugging, or shaking hands with a person who has TB doesn't spread the disease.
> 
> ...


https://www.pandata.org/time-to-reopen-society/

Please take the time to watch the above and then make an informed decision on whether there would have been many more deaths without lockdown.  My informed decision is that there would not have been.


I have taken the time to read the article about Zohnerism.
Interesting but off topic.

It's based on a hoax. Read the first 2 words of the second sentence. Says it all. He really went out of his way to confuse his classmates.

I have supplied numbers from WHO. No hoax, brother. Plain language that anyone can understand. 
I am in no way bending the truth to confuse the audience. 


Asked a legitimate question and have yet to receive a reasonably legitimate answer.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## Derlyn

> There are many parallels. See an informed analysis.https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/1.../fmb-2020-0179


Good evening, brother.

I have tried my best to understand what is meant by " a synergistic or antagonistic alliance ? but have failed with distinctions.

Until this article is made available in language that an electrician can understand, I don't think that it will be understood by most of the general population.

What I did pick up, however, is that the main transmission route of this virus ( Covid 19 ), according to this article,  is through cough and sneezing by an infected person. ( Page 1 of the article )

I would have thought that holding one's hand in front of one's mouth while coughing or sneezing would be adequate in preventing oneself from infecting someone else if you are already infected.  For some or other reason, I have been wrong. I still do not know why.

Thank you for responding brother.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## Justloadit

> https://www.pandata.org/time-to-reopen-society/
> 
> Please take the time to watch the above and then make an informed decision on whether there would have been many more deaths without lockdown.  My informed decision is that there would not have been.


I've already watched the video.
As I have said before, you can swing statistics to prove your case.
Lets just take 2 countries which did not follow lock down, namely Brazil and India.
I suppose the number s being reported are incorrect then?



> Together, Brazil and India now have half the COVID-19 cases in the world. We speak to L.A. Times foreign correspondents David Pierson and Kate Linthicum about what the plight of these global powerhouses suggests about the spread of coronavirus around the world.






> I have taken the time to read the article about Zohnerism.
> Interesting but off topic.
> 
> It's based on a hoax. Read the first 2 words of the second sentence. Says it all. He really went out of his way to confuse his classmates.


It was not a hoax, it was an experiment to prove that carefully worded statements, accompanied by scientific data, will allow one to twist facts to suit a narrative.
I am feeling that this is what is being placed on social media with respect to the pandemic and vaccines.




> Asked a legitimate question and have yet to receive a reasonably legitimate answer.


There have been a number of replies with facts, which you merely ignore, as it may not suite your current belief.
Could it be that we are both affected by "Zohnerism", but on opposite sides of the fence because of our beliefs?

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## Andromeda

> Good evening, brother.
> 
> I have tried my best to understand what is meant by " a synergistic or antagonistic alliance ? but have failed with distinctions.
> 
> Until this article is made available in language that an electrician can understand, I don't think that it will be understood by most of the general population.
> 
> What I did pick up, however, is that the main transmission route of this virus ( Covid 19 ), according to this article,  is through cough and sneezing by an infected person. ( Page 1 of the article )
> 
> I would have thought that holding one's hand in front of one's mouth while coughing or sneezing would be adequate in preventing oneself from infecting someone else if you are already infected.  For some or other reason, I have been wrong. I still do not know why.
> ...


Actually, you previously said 


> 2018. TB deaths in SA 63000. No lockdown. No draconian regulations.
> 
> 2019. TB deaths in SA 64000. No lockdown. No draconian regulations.
> 
> Come 2020 / 2021 Covid 19 deaths 55340. Lockdown, draconian regulations and emergency roll out of vaccines.
> 
> I have a question.
> Maybe someone can enlighten me.
> 
> ...


I think this statement actually gives a good part of the reason.



> All children receive the BCG vaccine at birth in South Africa (but not in Europe and the Americas). It’s a live vaccine given to stimulate the baby’s immune system to build antibodies to protect against TB. The vaccine is protective against more severe forms of TB (like TB meningitis and TB lymph nodes) but not considered effective against Pulmonary TB. A person who’s infected (but not diseased) or has a TB contact may take a 6 month course of Isoniazid (an AntiTB drug) to prevent TB.


Also, you must remember that the COVID 19 fatalities are despite the draconian measures that have not accompanied any other calamity. You yourself said they are draconian.

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## Andromeda

A 48 year old client has just been discharged from hospital. He spent 16 days in ICU and 3 days in normal hospital, and lost 15 kg. He very nearly died. His wife has recovered and so too his one son without going to hospital.

His view of COVID 19 has changed and he desperately fears it.

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## adrianh

> A 48 year old client has just been discharged from hospital. He spent 16 days in ICU and 3 days in normal hospital, and lost 15 kg. He very nearly died. His wife has recovered and so too his one son without going to hospital.
> 
> His view of COVID 19 has changed and he desperately fears it.


My wife, who works in the UK had the second Astra Zeneca vaccine Monday past. She is a carer looking after the elderly and all the patients and staff have to be vaccinated. She says she feels fine. She still can't travel to SA because of our poor vaccination status. She's been stuck in the UK for 15 months now.

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## GCE

I keep reading these threads and shaking my head in bewilderment 

Maybe we need to refer to Covid just as a _sickness_ that nobody really understands .

I have seen this _sickness_ create chaos first hand and what ever it is there are bodies lying in hospital passageways every time this wave of _sickness_ appears .

*The 1st Eye opener* 
We did installation of extra oxygen tanks in 5 rural areas in the Eastern Cape up as far as Libode in November/December
When we went round the first time to install cables and get ready for the arrival of the tanks there was just the normal movement expected around the hospitals.
When we returned 3 weeks later for final commissioning and hand over at the one hospital even the maintenance workshop was turned into a _sickness_ ward and the rest were bulging at the seams with refrigerated containers outside and a queue of bodies being wheeled out to them. Queues of funeral home cars collecting bodies .
Within a 3 week period it was a totally different place.

*The 2nd Eye opener* 
My sister was admitted to hospital for complications that had nothing to do with the _sickness_ and was tested for the _sickness_ but tested negative.
She was put into a private ward due to her condition and the specialists took control. 
She needed a ventilator but unfortunately there were none available because people with the _sickness_ were using them all and none were free but the promise was made to get her the next available. 
The next day the specialist wanted her moved to ICU but unfortunately there were no spare beds available because people with the _sickness_ were occupying them all.
The Sunday afternoon we were all allowed to visit in shifts and with hindsight we should have seen it coming , she was peaceful , content with the Christmas holiday she had spent with the kids. In between family members taking turns and passing each other in the passageway she was gone from this world after 51 years.

If that ICU bed had been available the machines would have screamed and maybe she would still be here.

The _sickness_ she did not have but the unfortunate timing of being admitted to hospital at a time when the _sickness_ arrived on a wave was the last straw.

Anybody disputing that there is a _sickness_ going around has not been close to a hospital when the waves arrive.

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## ians

The "sickness" is real ... for us ... lockdown started as a good excuse for a holiday ( I had been working non stop ) it was a good break. 

Until December 2020 ... it was just like any other day ... heard of people getitng sick ... had a a couple friends who got sick ...but recovered ... one person got it really bad ... it took 21 days before he started feeling better ... chatted to him yesterday ... he said he has been experiencing strange illnesses and still not feeling 100 %.

Then in December 2020 ... it started ... in some places as many as 80 % of staff were off "sick" ... still nobody close to us had died ... then it started ... my wifes boss got sick and passed away 3 weeks later ... the following day another friend passed away ... family members were being admitted to hospital ... people were lined up in wheel chairs in the passages ... waiting for a bed ... a friend lost his mother and father and by that stage messages were popping up on groups ... neighbours were loosing family members ... by the end of Jan 2021 ... it seemed the wave had finished.

What is coming ... nobody knows ... how will you handle it ... lets hope it doesnt break you or your finacial situation.

How you protect yourself and people around you ... that is up to you ... we might think we are as tough as nails ... but unfortuntely not everyone is ... so at a time like this ... just have a little consideration for others.

Lets hope we are not heading for another December/Jan.

Looking at the ques outside the post office and unemployment buildings ... how relaxed people have become ... this sickness will spread like wild fire again.

A word of advice ... get your shyte in order ... you dont want to leave loved ones with a mess they have to sort through ... make sure your will is up to date ... policies ... passwords and all that kind of stuff is availbe for them to access.

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Blurock (20-May-21)

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