# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  The state of education in our schools

## Dave A

I see the matric pass rate is down  :Frown: , but the number of learners qualifying for tertiary education increased  :Smile: . There may be questions about OBE, as something new it would come as no surprise that it could at least do with some tweaking.

But it really looks like the issue that most needs attention is the obvious inequalities in results/standards that keep on emerging.

What is causing the problem? And how are they solved.



> The South African Teachers' Union (SAOU) expressed "dismay" at the decrease and the Professional Educators' Union (PEU) expressed "some measure of disappointment".
> 
> "We believe that to maintain the momentum for increased access, we have to understand and address the factors which lead to drop out and failure," Sadtu president Thobile Ntola said in a statement.
> 
> "Our sense is that issues of historical disadvantage and poverty associated with race, class and the rural-urban divide, and uneven support and poor management, especially in some districts and provinces, are crucial here, and we would expect the Department of Education to deepen its analysis in this respect," he said.
> full story from M&G here





> Vijay Reddy from the Human Sciences Research Council said the 2,7% drop in the matric pass rate to 62,5% was "very worrying because it means that 38%, or four out of ten, have failed".
> 
> However Reddy said it was "admirable" that university entry passes increased by 4% for the first batch of matrics to have completed school under the much-contested outcomes-based education (OBE) system.
> 
> Seen side by side, the two figures proved that the inequalities of the past persist because students from better resourced schools were better able to adapt to the OBE programme, Reddy said. 
> 
> "We are seeing that pupils who were doing well have improved and that those who were performing poorly have been further disadvantaged under the new system.
> 
> "One of the aims of the new system was to level the playing fields but it will take more than one generation of outcomes-based education to achieve that."
> ...


Those are some pretty divergent views already.

One thing that struck me was a school featured on Morning Live this morning that had drastically improved their results despite serious resource shortages. There was a nervous passion amongst the educators about the results of their learners there that couldn't be missed.

Maybe resources isn't the key issue here, although there is no denying adequate resources help. Supportive home conditions must also help, but I'd guess the home conditions of the learners at that shool probably didn't change that much over a year.

Maybe making sure there is a *passion* for education in *all* the schools is the key.

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## IanF

Dave
The attitudes of the department have to change. 
My daughter got 7 distinctions out of 8 subjects. Her motivation was 4 years ago her sister got 6 out of 6, 4 years ago, she had to do better. The other motivation is the school pays the matrics for each distinction they get.

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## Loman

First off, i have no idea what OBE is, nor do i greatly care.
But why constantly change things when they should rather work on streamlining the whole thing?

Teachers are under more and more stress as the discipline in schools are non existent(our local high school's attendance was 39% this year) the result - none passed. Teachers are also buried under a lot of paperwork that they fill in each day causing them to give less attention to the class and more to all the forms they have to fill in to keep the old fart on her throne happy.

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## Dave A

OBE - outcomes based education.

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## Yvonne

It is not widely known that educators are unable to "force" students to repeat a grade, even when they have failed! If a parent (or undisciplined student), puts themselves "up" there is nothing done to force them back into the failed standard. I heard this from two sources, one from a teacher at an "Exclusive" private school, and on a television or radio segment of a interview with a school principal where astudents "put themselves" up a grade. He was proud of his pass rate - which "included" those who had "put" themselves up a grade despite failing! 
A reduction in the pass rate is therefore guaranteed surely? or are the standards of the final assessment going to be adjusted to match the level of knowledge of the "Average" student!
Yvonne

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## Dave A

I can see how that might be possible by arguing the fine print.

Every module normally has defined assumed embedded knowledge in place, normally at two levels below the level of the module. That means you could skip a level, but you wouldn't be able to skip two in a row that way.

I suggest to be used with caution, though. I've got this picture of holes in the wall. Perhaps not so critical near the top of the wall, but a far more serious issue if they're down at the foundation level.

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## Yvonne

Dave

If I could be a fairy god mother to South Africa, I would wave my magic wand and make you - Dictator of Education.

As this is what is needed, plain common sense!

Recently a candidate attending one of our training courses was telling my husband how angry he was with the youth in his neighbourhood, strolling late to school, socialising rather than getting to classes, completely disrespectful when asked why they did not hurry! and their general attitude towards schooling.
He felt the present situation was completely devalueing his own matric, and how hard he had  himself had worked to achieve his own results!

My husband replied that he understood, and that he was "blown away" at the education ministers statements. (Don't need a matric!)

The youngster replied - you should not be blown away - "WE" should be gone away!

This was a young very successful executive, who had overcome all his disadvantages, but felt the present education system was going to adversly affect his own future as well.

Yvonne

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## Yvonne

Dave,

Darn, I am dissapointed that you did not respond to my suggestion.

You seem to be the only person who has a genuine grasp of the outcomes based education, who can perhaps understand the advantages, therefore your opinion is well balanced.
I genuinely believe this is what is needed! Leadership with plain common sense!

That will never happen in our democracy, and it would have to be a dictatorship of standards to succeed.

I may be exaggerating, but I see it is a matter of national security for our future economy.

We are producing matriculants with unrealsitic expectations, both in their expectation of success in further education, as well as in owning their own businesses!  

But perhaps this is a universal problem?

Yvonne

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## Dave A

> You seem to be the only person who has a genuine grasp of the outcomes based education, who can perhaps understand the advantages, therefore your opinion is well balanced.


Far from it, Yvonne. There are plenty of people who not only understand it far better than I do, they are also actively working on improving the system. There's just got a lot of inertia to overcome. Some people have a vested interest in continuing the bureaucratic nightmare.

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## Debbiedle

If I tell you that the examining body, the system, the school, the invigilators, whoever the hell it was (as no one takes responsibility) have simply " lost " 4 of my childs matric examination papers, would anyone believe me?

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## Yvonne

Are you having us on?  

Is this possibly a test to see just how ready most of us are to believe the negative?

Sadly, one sometimes has to suspend logic, as our reality is simply unbelievable.

Yvonne

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## Dave A

2008 matric, Debbie?

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## Debbiedle

No jokes, 2008 matric, my kid will more than likely have to write again!  :Banghead:

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## Dave A

Warm up the lawyers...

How is this possible? Are any other kids from the same school affected?

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## IanF

> No jokes, 2008 matric, my kid will more than likely have to write again!


Debbie,
That is devastating any chance of writing supplementaries?

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## Debbiedle

Yes to both Dave and Ian. 

Sadly this is not the only horror story I have heard/experienced.  Apart from kids getting to an examination center (mine) and being tested on books that were not prescribed - subject, Afrikaans voorgeskrewe!   English kids (mine) arriving for their IT practical and the questions being in Afrikaans!

My rep had her kid doing matric at one of the most trusted colleges in Cape Town.  The examination board simply forgot to use ANY of their year marks and all the certificates were issued with marks approximately 15% below those actually obtained.  Luckily for them some wise sole picked this up, these kids still don't have their results.

Want more?  One of the maths question papers had so many errors on it (can't remember if this was finals or prelims, I think prelims) that an entire folio and a half of amendments were made.  This was at a private school (but national government paper) where the teachers took the time to read the paper and were able to do the amendments for the kids - what do you think happened in the schools where the teachers were not as skilled or dedicated?

These little bits and pieces come from the 20 to 30 odd matrics I personally have been in contact with, only because this is the age of my own kid.  But we are talking about 3 or 4 different schools and institutions.  Makes a person think doesn't it.

Not to mention the constant adjustment of marks.

The upshot of this is that a very select few out there, who have been mostly in private schools and sheltered from the chaos that has followed this particular year of child around, have any faith or respect for the system.  From grade 1 they have been guinea pigs.  The teaching methodologies have been confusing and inadequate for a large part of their school careers.

For example:  With outcomes based education a HUGE amount of your content relies on research.  Great for my kid - we have ADSL, WE taught him to google, gave FULL internet access from age of 7.  Let's get real and compare this privilege to the rest of the kids in SA?

I was fortunate to have attended university.  I could see and pick up faulty logic and teach my kids alternatives.  Our household is one where knowledge is revered.  This is not even a remote possibility in most South African households - the system has failed them,  as OBE needed adult guidance and that guidance has not been there for the 2008 matrics.  Yes for the private schools, yes for some of the better government schools, NO for the average government schools.

It got to the point where I suggested to my child that he make a choice between necessarily wanting good marks, or in fact wanting correct work and theory!!  The syllabus required that a grade 9 pupil should make a deck chair with a load bearing weight of 160 kg - granted,  ALL the grade 9 pupils who have carpentry workshops, industrial strength sewing machines and approximately R400 for materials could do this one, but approximately 99,999999% of the kids could not. 

University todays prefer that the kids do NOT have an accounting background for admission to BCOM.  Ask yourself why. 

I could continue for ever.  Fact is that *I* now have no respect for that little piece of paper called a matric certificate and this is very sad as quite a few of the kids in our circle came out of the finals with a number of distinctions.  My first thought?  What does it all mean?

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duncan drennan (18-Jan-09)

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## Yvonne

Debbie, any success?  So very sorry this is happening to your daughter, I hope it gets sorted out fairly!

Yvonne

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## Debbiedle

Hi Yvonne - Thank you for your concern.  I have had no luck as yet - this Monday I will be on it, but the amount of time expended to get nowhere is scary.  Even sadder,  it is my son, who his entire life has not ever done anything twice.  Would not colour in as a youngster because it was a waste of time, after all the picture has been drawn.  If teachers asked for rough draft he wouldn't do it, as he doesn't repeat things.  Even gets irritated if someone asks "are you sure?" after he has refused tea or coffee....I doubt that he will rewrite - not unless there is a miracle between now and then...please pray for one. 

I am truly devastated by this.  The only fact established is that he is not alone, there are other children out there in the same situation!!!!

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## Dave A

> I doubt that he will rewrite


It seems a bit silly for him to punish himself for someone else's mistake.

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## Yvonne

Your son must keep in mind the question, What is in my own best interest in the long run? The unfairness and frustration of wanting to refuse to write again is understandable.

Personally, sometimes a evangelical -  "positive" person will say - search for the benefit -which I generally find exceptionally frustrating!  
but over time I have found it helps enormously!  

Try to help him find some "positive" humor in rewriting! really tough one I know.
He has been exceptionally fortunate in life to have had such a nuturing educational background.

We need to revive the old expression - Vasbyt! 
for so many issues affecting our "State of the Nation"

Yvonne

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## twinscythe12332

well, one of the things that concerns me about OBE is there is quite an orientation towards group work. and with most students who would rather sit around and chat, there are normally 2 or 3 people producing the work, while the others sit around. now I'm all for team work and all that, but last time I checked, the exams are written individually.

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## Debbiedle

The saga continues....

http://www.afriforum.co.za/?p=2162#more-2162

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## Dave A

> Daar is ook baie klagtes oor departementsamptenare wat nie hulle telefone antwoord of op e-pos reageer nie


Surprise  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Yvonne

Debbie,

Did you manage to resolve all the problems with your sons matric examinations?

Yvonne

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## Dave A

> The findings by a team tasked to investigate the state of education in South Africa have been described by the opposition Democratic Alliance (DA) in KwaZulu-Natal as ânothing less than devastatingâ. 
> 
> The task team was set up last year by former education minister Naledi Pandor and was chaired by well-known educator Professor Jonathan Jansen, who has also been running affairs at the Mangosuthu University of Technology in Umlazi.
> 
> The Daily News reported on Tuesday that the team had found underlying dysfunctionality at rural and township schools, and teachers were spending less time in the classroom and more time on administration.
> 
> Tom Stokes, the DA's provincial education spokesperson, said in a statement on Tuesday they were deeply concerned.
> 
> The findings revealed, among other things, that the culture of teaching and learning had disappeared in most rural and township schools.
> ...


It's a government sponsored report. Let's hope it's taken seriously and acted upon.

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## Debbiedle

Hi Yvonne - No.  I don't have any idea or clue where to turn or what to do.  It has simply stumped me.  My kid is also refusing to rewrite.

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## sgafc

The Education system is not addressing the Skills Dearth in the country, far from it. Similar to a factory, they just pumping out "Matriculants" and graduates, without contributing to the economy.

Correct me if Im wrong, but the calibre of todays student lacks the literacy and numeracy skills needed,to survive in a modern economy. If I can speak for my industry, accounting. The situation is dire. I was stunned by students that I signed up for articles(learnerships) lack of knowledge of the basics of the subject, and yet these students obtained A's for subjects such as Cost Accounting.

In my student years we did thorough practicals on company tax.(Actually completing the tax return for a company). Todays students only cover the theory.

The same goes for the standard of Maths in our High Schools.

I am no pessimists, and have taken the Bull by the Horns, and retrained several of my article clerks. They have done exceptionally well on my unique training method, tailored specifically for the finance/tax market.

Today I can proudly say that 4 of my former trainees are in top positions at other firms. 2 Are Audit Managers at one of the "Big Four" audit firms, another a SARS auditor, and the other a financial manager at ABSA.

My concern is that the OUR FINANCE SETA, never rewarded my company (as promised), for my efforts,nor did I get any support from government.

No Problem, I continue to take on trainees,despite their shortcomings, because I am cognissant of a government that couldnt care a hoot. But I do, and our community needs the skills.

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## Dave A

Way to go, Sean  :Thumbup: 

Yup, I'm afraid when it came to fixing education in the post-apartheid era, our government seems to have thrown out the baby with the bathwater - and are only now starting to publicly admit their mistake.

Consider this statement from the new Health Minister, Aaron Motsoaledi:



> Part of relieving doctors is to get more nurses, and we blundered in a big way when we closed down many nursing colleges. The biggest trainer of nurses is the private sector -- while producing skilled people is the work of government! Iâm going to reopen the government nursing colleges so that nurses can study while theyâre getting paid. I think it will start alleviating some of the unbearable working conditions.
> from M&G article here


The same thing happened with the apprentice system and the training centres for the registered trades; tossed out and in came the learnership system.

Figuratively - Instead of just breaking down the gates of entry to learning and opening up accessibility to existing proven facilities, they destroyed the buildings too.

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