# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  CIPRO annual return

## duncan drennan

All companies must lodge an annual return with CIPRO each year in the month following their month of incorporation. Currently only registered companies (private, public, external, incorporated) need to do so. Currently close corporations are not required to lodge a return.

This must be done online and you can start by going to www.cipro.co.za. The front page has some basic info about the annual return, and you can also download the Private Company Annual Return Manual. The manual should have all the info that you need to complete your return.....but here is my experience.

*Use internet explorer for doing this. CIPROs site does not properly support Firefox.*

You will first need to create a user account on CIPROs website, which they call an "Agent." If you haven't done this already then either enter the web site (by clicking on the CIPRO web site button on the main page), and use the left hand navigation to go to "Our Customers" -> "Register as a customer," or follow this direct link to register as a customer. Scroll down and you'll see a form for registration.

Two important things to note with your registration,
Your "Customer Code", or user name, must be 6 or fewer charactersYour password must be 8 or less characters
If your user name or password are longer than this you will get an error message when you try to register, so just keep it within those bounds to save you some time. You should get a message confirming your registration.

Now use the left hand navigation, "Annual Return" and select the relevant type of return (public, private, etc.). Enter your enterprise number and it should give you some info about your company and when the return is due. Click on "Lodge Annual Return" and you should be sent to the login page. Use your user name and password to login.

You'll be asked to confirm your mandate to complete the return, i.e. you actually do have the authority to complete it. After that you'll be asked to enter your last annual turnover so that it can figure out how much to charge you  :Wink:  Then continue to lodge the return.

The next step is paying the money due, which depends on your annual turnover (for a private company),
Public company = R4000External company = R4000Private company, turnover < R10m = R450Private company, R10m <turnover < R50m = R2500Private company, turnover > R50m = R4000

So I then paid the amount due, and it went through the payment process and then returned me to a screen where it said something like balance is now x. Nothing other than the usual nav bars. Hmmm....confused.

So I start the process again. After going through the mandate and turnover process again, the next screen is different. There is now a list of things you can review, and change if necessary. Click on the sections to get more detail and confirm that it is all correct.

Once done click submit and it will tell you that the amount due has been deducted from your balance. You can also get a copy of the submitted return by following the link under, "Click here for this Annual Return Disclosure" which you can print out or save.

So that is that. Just to make sure I started the process again, and it showed that the next return was only due again next year.

Yay! I did it  :Smile:  May you have success too, and I hope this helps.

----------


## duncan drennan

Hmmm, so now I am slightly stumped....I realised I hadn't captured the payment for the annual return, and decided to do that this morning. I then realised, I don't have any kind of invoice for the payment. The next question was, is VAT applicable (I somehow don't think so...but not sure).

You can get a transaction history when logged into CIPRO's site, but not too sure about getting an invoice. Sending off an email...will report back.

If you do happen to know how this works, then please drop me a line.

----------


## Martinco

Ok, I have found the thread,

Please help...........I do not understand when the annual submission date should be ?
The instruction on CIPRO website reads " during the month of anniversary"

I have 3 CC's, incorporated during Feb 2001, July 2007 and Oct 1991.
Exactly when should I submit each return ? ( Month and year )

----------


## Dave A

Feb 2001 would be in Feb each year.
July 2007 would be in July each year.
etc.

Which reminds me, renewal time for me this month, I think  :Embarrassment:

----------

Martinco (20-Oct-08)

----------


## IanF

Am I reading this correctly an annual return for a cc is R1000 or is it R100?
Cipro link
I can't download the manual at the moment

----------


## duncan drennan

> Am I reading this correctly an annual return for a cc is R1000 or is it R100?


Do CC's have to do an annual return? I was trying to find a clear answer for this. Look a bit lower in the fees structure and under "Annual return fees" it only mentions companies.

----------


## duncan drennan

I see this has changed from 1 September 2008. There is a decent article on MoneywebTax about the CC annual return.

The cost is R100 for CC's with a turnover under R50mil and R4000 if turnover over R50mil. I think there is just a formatting error/typo on their site. If you look at the description there is R100 in there, and then R1000 under the fees.

----------


## IanF

> I see this has changed from 1 September 2008. There is a decent article on MoneywebTax about the CC annual return.
> 
> The cost is R100 for CC's with a turnover under R50mil and R4000 if turnover over R50mil. I think there is just a formatting error/typo on their site. If you look at the description there is R100 in there, and then R1000 under the fees.


Thanks Duncan must get this done, the red tape adds up. :Frown:

----------


## Martinco

Hi Dave,

I was still not sure but got it out of the horse's mouth. ( CIPRO)
Any CC incorporated during Sept ( any year ) or after will have to submit from now on i.e. Incorporated in Oct must submit during Oct 2008. If incorporated prior to Sept then only on birthday next year.
I trust this makes sense.
Further, how do we make sure all members with businesses ( CC's and PTY's ) know about this requirement ?
I only found out by accident.

----------


## Marq

Thanks for that information.

The original story is here.. Like you say they do not mention the prior September scenario and the cipro site needs someone with a bit of logic to tackle it and give us some relevant up to date information.

Sometimes I am not sure which end of this horse you are dealing with! :EEK!:  Lucky you got the mouth bit.

----------


## Dave A

I missed the *CC* part of the renewal discussion.  :Embarrassment:  I've got Pty Ltd's and of course renewal has been a part of life for some time now there. So this is something new for CC owners then?

----------


## Martinco

> I missed the *CC* part of the renewal discussion.  I've got Pty Ltd's and of course renewal has been a part of life for some time now there. So this is something new for CC owners then?


Yes Dave, all CC's must submit as from September 2008

----------

Dave A (20-Oct-08)

----------


## Dave A

Aah. So this is an implementation phase.

Makes sense rolling it in the way they are doing it.

----------


## Vincent

> CIPROs site does not properly support Firefox.


 Use only  :Gun Bandana: IE, anything else won't work. I use Firefox and Opera, and both don't work. Very frustrating, and according to the DTI, they won't be making the necessary changes for the foreseeable future.

----------


## Martinco

Hi Vincent,
I am using Firefox and have no problem at all on the  CIPRO site. ( As yet! )

----------


## Vincent

> I am using Firefox and have no problem at all on the  CIPRO site. ( As yet! )


 As an agent you can't fill out the online documentation.If I remember correctly, you can fill out the CK7, but not the CK1.

----------

Martinco (22-Oct-08)

----------


## Martinco

Ok, shall use IE in future to ensure full usage.

Thanks

----------


## Martinco

Can anybody help ?

I have 3 CC's to do annual returns on.
I registered and did the first one without a hitch. Now the second one I have a problem.
I log on with my user name and password ..no problem.
I go to "annual return" and enter the info of the second CC exactly as per my CK1 with the CC # without slashes and the "CK" but now get the error that the "enterprise name is incorrect" however above that it also shows I am logged in as the first CC I did the return on previously. How do I overcome this ?  Emails to CIPRO help bear no results. Must I somehow change over to the other CC and if so how?

----------


## Martinco

Not to worry !

I came right.

Although the CC is registered as "x y z BK" I was not supposed to put the "BK" in the name.
So remember !!!

----------


## Dave A

Welcome to the pain  :Big Grin:

----------


## TanyaK

They don't make it easy - I put in all the info required and still get the following validation errors : 

Before saving or submitting, please ensure that all surnames or enterprise names (juristic persons) are at least completed.
A person with no names or surname exist, please correct.
Please supply first names for (person of unknown type) with name:  .
Please supply the status for (person of unknown type) with name:  .
Supply a valid 13 digit id number for (person of unknown type) with name:  .
Please supply a date of birth for (person of unknown type) with name:  
Please supply a residential address for (person of unknown type) with name:  .
Please supply a residential address postal code for (person of unknown type) with name:  .

----------


## Marq

I am getting the same results - validation errors and now unable to link my payment to my return. Very strange and round about way of controlling this process. Have tried on and off over the past month without success and today the annual duty link does not even work.

I phoned in and was told they are having problems but nothing could be gleaned further than that.

Do you think that having paid the amount and having a copy of the unvalidated return is acceptable proof of payment or are we going to see a host of deregistrations as they carry on with the process of generally confusing the world around themselves? Is there another way to make sure they do not assume the worst and take one out of their system as at the moment they must have thousands in a suspense account awaiting tie up to a return?

----------


## Dave A

> ...are we going to see a host of deregistrations...


Common sense would suggest that CIPRO should not deregister and rather list the company as not in good standing.

I'm aware of one company that hadn't filed an annual return for 7 years. Apparently it can't be deregistered because it owns property. That didn't stop CIPRO from trying to deregister the company anyway, but they promptly reinstated the company when the property ownership issue was pointed out.

Of course there were penalties to be paid... but life went on.

----------


## Marq

Ah....common sense....cipro.........mmmmm.........I dont know about that. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Martinco

I must say that the most recent return went without too much hassle.
One thing............make sure you have enough credit with them before attempting the return. I find that using my credit card works best, no waiting for faxes to go through and confirmations etc.

Further.........in so far as the "errors" are concerned when submitting, just go back to the form and the info requested will be coloured in ( in some cases you have to double click to open a further page )and you only have to give info on the ones with asterisk.
Good luck !  :Big Grin:

----------


## Dave A

CIPRO no longer accepts credit cards  :Frown:  You have to do a direct deposit or EFT and then wait for the funds to be credited to your "virtual" account. Goodness only knows how long that is going to take if their website is anything to go by.

The CIPRO website is operating at a crawl at best - mostly it simply chucks you out due to excessive server load. And then the telephone number you're supposed to fax your payment confirmation to doesn't take faxes  :Frown:   :Frown: 

It really makes a mockery of CIPRO's quality statement.

Continuous improvement  :Huh:  When it comes to service levels they're going backwards.

----------


## Dave A

And now total collapse...



Two days to submit an annual return and counting  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## BusFact

But hang on Dave, they clearly say that you should not wait until the last minute of the month to submit returns as their servers can then not take the volume of traffic.

Oh dear, hang on, its the middle of the month and their servers still can't handle it.

These clowns are just incompetent. You have my sympathy. I hope you manage to catch their servers up soon.

----------


## Dave A

Got it done eventually - late on a Friday afternoon. I guess one trick to get the job done reasonably painlessly is to transact out of regular office hours.

What irks me now is that quality statement. This is an ISO 9001 organisation and reading back on this thread it's clear this server load problem has been around for a long time. You'd think they'd have had a shot at improving the situation by now.

Just in my struggles and looking at the problem from the outside, I identified two areas where they could massively reduce server load very easily: 
reduce the file sizes of their information documents, andstore those files in a directory filing system rather than in the database.
There are single page pdf information files which are over 500kB, and they're clearly stored in a database (and probably cached, tying up memory resources too)!

Clearly there has been no attempt at optimisation - this is the first place any webby type would look for quick, easy options to ease server load.

----------


## MadJan

I am trying to lodge my annual return for my CC but for some odd reason i cannot access the "Lodge CC Annual Return" When i click on this tab it takes me to a blank page....any ideas?

----------


## Dave A

Try doing the return at midnight  :Whistling: 

Does it look like the page is still trying to load?

----------


## Martinco

> These clowns are just incompetent. You have my sympathy. I hope you manage to catch their servers up soon.


Talking about the incompetency.......................  I have now been waiting for 2 years +  to get my trademark registered.
The only remark I can get from them is "in progress"  :Confused: 

Like most ( all)  government departments they are simply not interested in doing their jobs but "make sure I get my bonus and pay rise ! "  Shocking  :Rant1:

----------


## Antony Last

To avoid delays and inconveniences many people do their returns through www.annualreturns.co.za

----------


## Dave A

Looks like it'll cost you an extra R545.00 for the convenience with a Pty Ltd, though. 

If you want to delegate, it might be an idea to check what your accountant/auditor would charge - my auditors quoted me R300.00 (+ VAT, I expect), and I'd have no forms to fill in  :Wink:

----------


## BusFact

> To avoid delays and inconveniences many people do their returns through www.annualreturns.co.za


My issue with this option is that this annual return is actually quite important. Almost up there with a tax return.

If there ever was a query about whether it was submitted or not I would prefer to have the actual printout off the Cipro website or at least have a trusted auditor with the responsibility (as per Dave's suggestion).

A private third party makes me a little nervous, although maybe I'm just paranoid.

----------


## IMHO

For goodness sake! I am furious with my Accounting firm for charging me R350 to do something that costs R100, so I came over here to have a look at how to do it yourself. I have three cc's to do and it will cost me R1050 instead of R300! But looking at this thread, I suppose I will have to pay the R1050?

----------


## Martinco

> Talking about the incompetency.......................  I have now been waiting for 2 years +  to get my trademark registered.
> The only remark I can get from them is "in progress" 
> 
> Like most ( all)  government departments they are simply not interested in doing their jobs but "make sure I get my bonus and pay rise ! "  Shocking


I got my registration !!!!  :Clap:    3 Years later   :Confused:

----------


## Dave A

> For goodness sake! I am furious with my Accounting firm for charging me R350 to do something that costs R100, so I came over here to have a look at how to do it yourself. I have three cc's to do and it will cost me R1050 instead of R300! But looking at this thread, I suppose I will have to pay the R1050?


Routine renewals are dead easy to do yourself. The CIPC website really has ended up being a big step forward.

----------


## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Most firms and company secretaries charge around the R350 mark, as does my firm. The complexity and time taken to do the return depends on the number of directors, the accuracy and completeness of the data already on record and of course, the availability and speed of the service on the CIPC site.

On occasion it has taken me literally hours to submit a return. On other occasions I have had to abandon the process after an hour or so and let it stand over for another time, when the site is working properly. The fee remains the same and is actually a bargain.

On another note, if you have any process that are listed as "In progress" for an unreasonable length of time, re-submit them, especially if it is well in excess of the published Service Delivery Standards.

----------


## Greg

Some of you guys are lucky with what you paid. My accountant charged me R 912.00 to do it for me.

There is so much red tape involved in trying to run a business. The government almost don't want you to succeed. I mean which ever way you turn you have to part with money.

----------


## Dave A

> There is so much red tape involved in trying to run a business. The government almost don't want you to succeed. I mean which ever way you turn you have to part with money.


Nothing quite like having a captive market and no competition. You can virtually write your own paycheque!

And perhaps they do  :EEK!:

----------

