# Social Category > The Whistleblower Forum >  Criminal records

## mmp

Is it possible to establish a fraud conviction dating back to 1995. If "yes" ...How?

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## AndyD

I don't understand your question, are you trying to pursue someone for fraudulent activities in 1995 to get a conviction or are you trying to do a background check on someone?

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## mmp

A background check!

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## Just Gone

Yes .... a criminal record stays on your record.  Some companies if you request a criminal check will only give you convictions, some will give you full history ie if a charge was ever laid against you.  This sometimes is unfair for a person who might be applying for a job and has a history of a charge that might have been false.  If you are still interested in getting further information about someone you can inbox me.  There are fees involved and in most cases you should get a persons permission.

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## Dave A

The security industry has to do checks to make sure their staff don't have criminal records - I wonder where they go? The SAP perhaps?

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## mother

What does the LAW say? Surely a criminal record, where the person was actually found guilty in a court of law, should be public knowledge? I would imagine that every citizen has the right to know whether or not their neighbour/employee/nanny/etc is a convicted murderer or rapist or thief or whatever.

Why do you need their permission, Kevin? Is the general public not allowed to enquire about another person's criminal record?

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## Perform Computers

A random woman can walk into any police station and file a case of rape against a random male. That male is automatically "guilty" until proven innocent. Pathetic. Imagine the police arriving at your workplace informing you a charge of rape has been filed against you & you need to come with them.

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## Just Gone

Yes it is pathetic ............ now can you imagine if you do a full criminal check on someone that has just applied for a job and you come up against a rape charge on his record, and it is actually a wife that is really pissed off with her husband !!.
If you do a check on someone it shows them you have checked on them, therefore you would have to have good reason to check on them.

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## BusFact

> A random woman can walk into any police station and file a case of rape against a random male. That male is automatically "guilty" until proven innocent. Pathetic. Imagine the police arriving at your workplace informing you a charge of rape has been filed against you & you need to come with them.


Not guilty yet, but I think you realise that based on the quote marks. He will however go through a very unpleasant experience. Of course without some form of probable evidence, the female does run the risk of being charged with perjury and wasting police time if it turns out her case is a lie, as well as the risk of a civil claim for damages.

The moment a situation arises where someone does get raped or feels the need to falsely accuse another of rape, then its going to get ugly either way. It is unfortunate, but the police do have to take the matter seriously. Can you imagine the situation where someone close to you is in fact raped, but the police don't want to make the arrest?

Its a tough one.

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## BusFact

> What does the LAW say? Surely a criminal record, where the person was actually found guilty in a court of law, should be public knowledge? I would imagine that every citizen has the right to know whether or not their neighbour/employee/nanny/etc is a convicted murderer or rapist or thief or whatever.
> 
> Why do you need their permission, Kevin? Is the general public not allowed to enquire about another person's criminal record?


Not sure of the actual legal answer, but I would imagine that no you are not entitled to enquire. The logic being that someone with a criminal record who is out of prison has served their time and done the punishment. They should now be allowed to get on with their lives afresh. Examples of  exceptions being where you want to employ someone and previous cases of fraud might indicate their lack of trustworthiness and the sex offender list that the US has

If however they just want to get on with their lives and turn over a new leaf, that should possibly be able to do so.

I'm not necessarily in full agreement with the above, but I would imagine that would be the political view on the matter.

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## Just Gone

The problem arises when a person applies for a job.  My wife has a recrutiment agency and comes across this time and time.  Man applies for a job as a foreman for example.  She goes thro the process and refers the candidate to a client - they like him, she now has to do the normal itc and criminal checks depending if the client wants it.  If she goes thro a certain agency she gets a FULL listing on this man that shows full history ie criminal records and charges laid but not gone to court - if she goes thro another agency she only gets the listing of the actual convictions.  She is obliged to divulge this information to her client ie whatever she knows, therefore obviously at the end of the day it is better for her and her candidate if she uses the agency that only shows the actual convictions and not the one showing the charges laid.  It is also not perhaps fair on the candidate if the full charges etc history is used resulting in the client seeing this perhaps and rather then picking another person because he sees an "assault charge" that has been laid against this person, which might be totally fictitious.

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## Thommy

I wud like to check my criminal record.... How can I do dat!!

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## Just Gone

> I wud like to check my criminal record.... How can I do dat!!




Send me your details to tack@iburst.co.za .  I will give you a cost on it.  There are two types 1.  Full crim check ie will include every charge laid against someone or 2.  Crim record check of eg if you were found guilty on anything which would not inlcude any arbitory possible charge laid against a person.

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## tec0

Google for *National Archives of South Africa (NASA)* is a good place to start...

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## Just Gone

> Google for *National Archives of South Africa (NASA)* is a good place to start...


And then ..... ? now where exactly would you go on the nasa site to look for a crim record tec ?

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## tec0

> I wud like to check my criminal record.... How can I do dat!!


Hi Thommy 

I played around in the National Archives of South Africa (NASA) webpage and have a look they show you how to use the interface available on their webpage. There I found some information case numbers and things like that. But it is really difficult to figure out if what you are seeing is relevant. 

So I Googled some more and found the procedure. Application for Police Clearance Certificate or How To Apply For a Police Clearance Certificate (PCC) I believe they describe in detail how to proceed. Just remember this is for your own information. I have no idea how to check someone else's criminal record. 

I am still new to this so I will keep on digging until I figure out the rest.

I did send a lot of emails and will post any new findings here.


I hope this helps a bit

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## Just Gone

Lucky u have so much time.  Thommy if u realize that site does not give crim checks - you are welcome to contact me.

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## tec0

National Archives of South Africa (NASA) Can be useful, but not with criminal records checks or so it would appear. That said I believe that the other links provided may proof useful for an individual in need of a PCC. I would imagine adding a PCC to a CV may establish a bit more trust between the applicants and a possible future employer.

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## Blurock

> I wud like to check my criminal record.... How can I do dat!!


Why would you want to check your criminal record? Don't you remember your crimes?  :Devil2:

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Citizen X (27-Feb-12)

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## Fanie

I want to throw a spanner in the works.

Fistly, there are no criminals outside of the jail.  Why - because if there are there is something seriously wrong with the justice system and the police are not doing their work !

Now.  Let's say someone did something wrong... what ever crime you can think of.  If that person is cought, and sentence in court - then when the sentence has been paid or served in jail... whatever - then that person should receive his rights back - well, lets assume we still have rights because we don't.

*If someone paid for his crimes, but that record is held against that person, then it means that there is no hope for rehabilitation.* 

Let me put it in another way.  You just paid off your car, but the bank keeps taking you money because you bought a car !  Same thing.  If you paid off your loan, you are free from the obligation to pay the bank amy more.  If someone paid for his crime then why do you expect him to keep on paying ?  Is any sentence for life... ?

So if someone is acting criminally, they should be arrested (the proper way) and taken to court.  There is imo no use for black listing people - did they or did they not commit a crime ?  Yes then the law should act.  No, then they should not be blacklisted.

In SA there are too many grey areas.  You can commit crime without being guilty because it is a grey area.

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## Blurock

@ Fanie. There is a difference between paying off a debt and paying for a crime. The one is a commercial transaction, the other is a defect in behaviour and maybe attitude...

You have choices in life, make the wrong choice and it will affect the rest of your life. :Innocent:

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## Just Gone

> If someone paid for his crimes, but that record is held against that person, then it means that there is no hope for rehabilitation.


No there is hope for rehabilitation .......... but companies have the right to know and decide for themselves if they want to hire you.  If for example you have been jailed once or twice or even three times for cooking the books and committing fraud ..... then believe me I want to know and have the right to check you out and not hire you in the same position again.  And that is my right !  And as you say we all have rights ........... you chose to cock up your rights if you committed a crime and its on your record for life.

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Blurock (17-Mar-12)

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## adrianh

> You have choices in life, make the wrong choice and it will affect the rest of your life.


_This statement bothers me bigtime for various reasons:_
1. Don't those that subscribe to Christian beliefs say that one should forgive?
2. The implication is that people should be made to pay for the rest of their lives even if they've completely turned their lives around.
3. What is the point then of serving a sentence if you pay for the rest of your life anyway.
4. Not all criminal actions are conscious choices, some are accidental and some are due to extreme emotional stress (call it a crime of passion)
5. ...and sometimes people just f_up (make mistakes) because they don't think things through

_This is where the entire concept of crime and punishment goes cockeyed - (In my view anyway)_ 
In times of war and strife: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

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## Blurock

I agree with the Christian principle of forgiveness Adrian. However, if you have committed a crime, your life will change thereafter. You will either blame yourself, or blame others for the consequences. Because of this you may continue on the same path or change your life. Some people learn, others don't.

If someone has committed a serious crime and he does not change his lifestyle afterwards, how can he expect forgiveness? It is the same as respect. It is earned, never forced.

People do forgive. Yet, it is up to the perpetrator to ask for forgiveness and to show remorse. It is also up to the community to assist with the rehabilitation process by providing a job, guidance and general support system. If not, there is often no alternative but to fall back into crime. You will however not allow a paedophile to work with children or a fraudster to manage the bank.  :Batman:

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