# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum > [Article] SANS 164-2

## SeanM

Greetings All

I recall reading a thread regarding the change of installing socket outlets awhile ago that caused some confusion, this afternoon I recieved an article expling this in detail.

http://crown.co.za/latest-news/spark...socket-outlets

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## RegElec

It's strange that the new layout of sockets (SANS164-2) as far as I am aware does not require the socket outlets to be switched. Any comments?

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## ians

> It's strange that the new layout of sockets (SANS164-2) as far as I am aware does not require the socket outlets to be switched. Any comments?


Not sure that too many people are aware of this "new plug law" it seems nobody got the memo (only people who received the sparks mag)...not even the SABS people who are suppose to info the appliance people to change the plug tops.

Like most things in SA...its gona take a while for people to change over. 

I wonder when they will enforce the law about the old 25 amp orange 4 pin plug. People still install these plug sockets even thought there is a pamphlet indicated "NOT TO BE USED IN NEW INSTALLATIONS"

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## GCE

> It's strange that the new layout of sockets (SANS164-2) as far as I am aware does not require the socket outlets to be switched. Any comments?


When SANS 10142 started aligning itself with the European standards the switching of sockets stopped , over 10 years ago.As far as I am aware it was in the manufacturers regulations and under 164 .
If you look at 10142, new and old edition,  there is no reference anymore to the switching of sockets besides construction sites , stages and generator rooms

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## GCE

> Not sure that too many people are aware of this "new plug law" it seems nobody got the memo (only people who received the sparks mag)...not even the SABS people who are suppose to info the appliance people to change the plug tops.
> 
> Like most things in SA...its gona take a while for people to change over. 
> 
> I wonder when they will enforce the law about the old 25 amp orange 4 pin plug. People still install these plug sockets even thought there is a pamphlet indicated "NOT TO BE USED IN NEW INSTALLATIONS"


The "new plug law "was gazette back in the beginning of 2017 and before that was put out for comment to the general public.The changes had been circulating within the industry for the past couple of years.
The SANS10142-ed 2 was published in March 2017 and readily available.

As business owners we are compelled by law to keep up with any new regulations governing our industry , or any laws that may have an effect on our businesses, tax,  etc 
If you don't keep an eye out on all new gazettes published on a daily basis the you run the risk of being on the wrong side of the law , similar to the pirate contractor that still installs old "orange 4 pin plugs"

I don't seem to have enough time to read through the volumes of gazettes published and so belong to an employees organization ( ECA)  who reads through all the gazettes and informs me of the relevant ones when they come along.
Saves a lot of time and reduces my risk of prosecution for non compliance

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## ians

So some clever person came up with the idea to fit 2 flat plugs to the 4x4 ...they didnt think to add the round 2 pin...the one that all electrical power tools are supplied and some of my kitchen appliances.

My question with regard to SABS...who is checking that nobody is selling non compliant equipment? 

People are quick to jump on the electrical contractor for installing a non compliant product...yet i can go to my "registered electrical wholesaler" and buy non compliant products...i have sent an email to my local electrical wholesaler to inform them that all products that they supply to my company must be SABS approved...i wonder how that would stand up in court.

i think people need come back down to earth and look at this industry at ground level...start educating people about rules and regulation and make people who sign over certificate of compliance documents accountable for their action.

One of my customers has been purchasing flats...with a coc...not one of them would pass...the latest one has the DB directly above the stove...1.5 mm wire for the plugs with a label on the 10 amp breaker "mixed circuits"...and a list of other things...but hey as i told the customer you have a coc use it...if so many people can get away with the thousands of illegal COC's out there...who is gona query this one...the contractor is protected by the ECA so he shouldnt have a problem if he is taken to court.

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## Dave A

> ...they didnt think to add the round 2 pin...the one that all electrical power tools are supplied and some of my kitchen appliances.


The Schuko socket?

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## GCE

> So some clever person came up with the idea to fit 2 flat plugs to the 4x4 ...they didnt think to add the round 2 pin...the one that all electrical power tools are supplied and some of my kitchen appliances..


Manufacturers will manufacture what the market demands - There are module type systems that you could make up your own combination 




> My question with regard to SABS...who is checking that nobody is selling non compliant equipment? .


DTI checks up on compliance - Under OHSA you cannot sell or market unless it is compliant - Piet Pompies electrical wholesaler may get away with it but not the recognized guys - Consumer protection act would also kick in 




> People are quick to jump on the electrical contractor for installing a non compliant product...yet i can go to my "registered electrical wholesaler" and buy non compliant products...i have sent an email to my local electrical wholesaler to inform them that all products that they supply to my company must be SABS approved...i wonder how that would stand up in court.
> 
> i think people need come back down to earth and look at this industry at ground level...start educating people about rules and regulation and make people who sign over certificate of compliance documents accountable for their action..


ECA offers training course and refresher course to keep contractors up to date - ECA cannot force contractors to attend only DOL would be able to implement - Problem is the guy in Poff Adder may struggle to get to a course 




> One of my customers has been purchasing flats...with a coc...not one of them would pass...the latest one has the DB directly above the stove...1.5 mm wire for the plugs with a label on the 10 amp breaker "mixed circuits"...and a list of other things...but hey as i told the customer you have a coc use it...if so many people can get away with the thousands of illegal COC's out there...who is gona query this one...the contractor is protected by the ECA so he shouldnt have a problem if he is taken to court.


ECA is not going to protect a contractor that has worked illegally even if he is a member - If your customer , or you , have a problem with an ECA member , then report him to the ECA and let them deal with him.They can force him to return and repair non compliant items.The complaint needs to be lodge first.

In my view, part of the problem in the country at the moment is that we all want to complain but not actually get involved and lodge the complaint with the relevant people.We also need to make sure that we in ourselves carry the flag and ensure that our work is carried out correctly.
I have a habit of upsetting mates around the dinner table when the normal topic of reckless Taxi drivers comes up - My theory is that if you have jumped a red robot, or exceeded the speed limit ,  you cannot complain about others that have - Generally the taxi discussions stops.

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## ians

> The Schuko socket?


yip.

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## ians

GCE ...i have been in this industry for a loooong time.

Was a member of the ECA for more than a decade.

Buy most of the registered wholesaler on a daily basis...i must say one of the favourite things...listening to the sales guy offering electrical advice to customers.

Yip i like to complain a lot...I am sure Brian Bilton got tired of all the emails and complaints about crap workmanship illegal COC's...I got to that stage where i also just dont give a crap anymore.

everyday i go to work (even though i own my business for 27 years) still work hands on...have to deal with all the semi skilled dropped off on sites...the crap workmanship...illegal COC's...i just shake my head and do my job and make sure it is the best to my ability.

another thing that crate me is the fact that i am expected to take responsibility for illegal workmanship just because i have a small job on the big site...i put my blinkers on and dont sign anything unless i am forced to...i make sure the customers have a copy of a COC regardless of how legit it is or who signed it...so they can produce it if required and not have to ask me for one.

my latest project...a COC was issued 1 month ago....the surface mounted DB is directly above the stove  :Frown:  thank goodness there is a COC for the property...i can do my job required the get the hell out of there.

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## Dave A

> ...they didnt think to add the round 2 pin...the one that all electrical power tools are supplied and some of my kitchen appliances.


The Schuko socket?




> yip.


Now there's another fine can of worms.

No Schuko plug or socket or may be imported or sold in SA (see page 4 of the attached Government Notice where it has been specifically declared illegal), but as you say, no shortage of them about.

VC 8008 (2010).pdf

For those not familiar with the Schuko outlet -

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AndyD (08-Jun-18)

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## AndyD

Is that your bathroom Dave?  :Cool:  As the estate agents say...location, location, location and that's certainly a lovely location for that socket, I can only assume there's a nice big 20Amp isolating transformer behind it. Nice to see it covers all bases and even the illegal ones with equal aplomb, there's even a cunning little ledge under it giving you somewhere to balance your hairdryer above the full basin. Certainly goes above and beyond, full marks from me.

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## Dave A

> As the estate agents say...location, location, location and that's certainly a lovely location for that socket, I can only assume there's a nice big 20Amp isolating transformer behind it.


It was actually the query about the location we posed to the ECA technical advisory staff that "induced" the point about the Schuko socket & outlet ban.

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## GCE

Hi Dave 

Do you still have the answer handy with regards to the location of the socket and proximity of the basin ( let's forget about the illegal schuko) 

My understanding would be if the bath or shower basin is far enough away from the socket outlet , being 600mm ( Zone 2)  , then the socket outlet would be allowed above the basin/tap.  
Socket outlets on Earth leakage unit are allowed in zone 3 

There are no zones around a hand basin and tap the way I read the regulations.

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## Dave A

> There are no zones around a hand basin and tap the way I read the regulations.


Correct. Not in SA anyway.
Madness, I reckon.

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GCE (22-Jun-18)

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## ians

> Correct. Not in SA anyway.
> Madness, I reckon.


Common sense would be the logical answer...but as you mentioned...not in SA  :Wink:

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## ians

I thought i would do some scratching...

The unearthed schuko plugs falls under SANS 164-6 

2 pole systems, 16A 250 Vac for connection of class 2 equipment.

MCE sell them and advertise on the front page of the sparks mag.





> The Schuko socket?
> 
> 
> Now there's another fine can of worms.
> 
> No Schuko plug or socket or may be imported or sold in SA (see page 4 of the attached Government Notice where it has been specifically declared illegal), but as you say, no shortage of them about.
> 
> VC 8008 (2010).pdf
> 
> For those not familiar with the Schuko outlet -

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## Dave A

And then you get the ones installed in the Vodacom charging kiosk in the domestic departure area at O.R. Tambo International Airport.







As you say, apparently the issue of concern is the exposed earth contact points. It did make me wonder about the wisdom of allowing bare copper wiring and strapping for earthing and bonding...

Perhaps that is why the ban comes via Department of Trade and Industry  :Confused:

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## GCE

The main reason for the ban - If there is an earth fault ( small so as not to trip ) or the fault occurs while unplugging - The live pin could still be connected to the socket outlet while the earth has disconnected and you could be holding the earth strap on the side of the plug top effectively becoming the earth.
There is talk in Europe of having a re look at the schuko - Some of the countries have already stopped the use thereof

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Dave A (03-Jul-18)

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