# Interest group forums > Energy and Resource Conservation Forum >  WHO MAY INSTALL SOLAR SYSTEMS

## GCE

This seems to be a question coming up all the time and the so called Solar installers that are springing up all over that have no Electrical background and DIY projects happening is scary and dangerous 

Only registered Electrical Contractors may install Solar(PV) systems

The OHSA and SANS 10142-1 are clear and there is no grey area 

To Be an Electrical Contractor he must be able to produce a Registration Certificate as an Electrical contractor issued by the Department of Employment and Labour  and be able produce registration with the National Electrical Bargaining Council ( NBCEI)  

*If those documents cannot be produced he is not an Electrical Contractor and cannot install PV/Solar Installation.
*
We continually have the statement made that Solar installers are suppliers of electricity and that the isolator to the AC connect point is the point of control and therefore does not have to be carried out by an Electrical contractor as it is not part of the Electrical Installation * This is a Myth or to put stronger a blatant lie* 
This is a myth and the OHSA and Electrical regulations SANS 10142-1 ED3.01 have clarified and removed any doubt.
The definitions have defined that the consumer is responsible if he generates electricity for himself and the consumer ( definition below) needs to have a COC to legally use the electrical installation.
Definition of electrical installation ( Clause 3.33)  clearly includes PV and it includes the brackets that panels are mounted on , trunking , conduit etc
The Electrical Contractor needs to be in General control of the job , not just the connections , the complete works including all wireways , bracketing etc 

The point of control definition pasted below is only the point of control if supplied by the " supplier" as defined - If it is the consumers PV system then the isolator for the system is not the point of control.

The installation of Alternative supply including the DC section shall comply with SANS 10142-1 - Section 7.12 of SANS 10142-1 reinforces that including the foreword of SANS 10142-1
If you go over 1,5Kv DC , then you need to go to SANS 10142-2 for MV installations

Pv installations can only be done by Electrical Contractors and that Contractor must employ an Installation licensed electrician or Master Installation Electrician 
A licenced single phase tester cannot work with DC and may therefore not sign off on DC installations which would include PV Inverters nor any 3 phase installations.
If a Single phase tester is requested to issue a COC for a premises where inverters( DC involved) or PV system is installed because the property is being sold , he shall not issue the COC as he is legal prohibited from doing so as per Annex M of SANS 10142-1 

As Electrical Contractors it is mandatory to belong to the NBCEI.

The " PV Green card " is not a recognized statutory qualification
As the consumer you are held responsible by the regulations and your insurance company could dismiss any claims that may arise from such installation or be destroy by such installation.

Relevant regulations from SANS 10142-1 Ed3.01  pasted below and highlighted in red what is relevant


3.16
consumer
person who is supplied (or who is to be supplied) with electricity by a supplier
(see 3.77); or a person who supplies his own electricity

3.58
point of supply
point at which a supplier supplies electricity to any premises

3.77
supplier
in relation to a particular installation, any local authority (see 3.47), statutory
body or person who supplies, contracts or agrees to supply, electricity to that
electrical installation


3.56
point of control
point at which a consumer can, on or in any premises, switch off the electrical
installation from the electricity supplied from the point of supply


3.33
electrical installation
machinery, in or on any premises, that is used for the transmission of electrical
energy from a point of control (see 3.56) to a point of consumption
(see 3.55) anywhere on the premises, including any article that forms part of
such an installation, irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical
circuit, but excluding
a) any machinery of the supplier that is related to the supply of electricity on
the premises,
b) any machinery that is used for the transmission of electricity of which the
voltage does not exceed 50 V, where such electricity is not derived from
the main supply of a supplier, and
c) any machinery that transmits electrical energy in telecommunication,
television or radio circuits



7.12.7 Additional requirements for photovoltaic (PV) and similar
installations that provide a supply as an alternative to the main supply
7.12.7.1 The photovoltaic installation shall comply with SANS 60364-7-712
and the solar panels shall comply with SANS 61215 (for poly and mono
crystalline) or SANS 61646 (for thin-film).
7.12.7.2 The DC component of the installation shall comply with 7.15.
7.12.7.3 The rated voltage of each circuit shall be clearly indicated at all ends
of the circuit.
In the case of combined circuits, every circuit shall be easily identifiable.
Where single core conductors are used, such conductors for each circuit shall
be tied together at intervals to ensure identification, unless another suitable
arrangement is employed.
7.12.7.4 Precautions regarding parallel operation as prescribed in 7.12.6.1,
and overcurrent protection as prescribed in 7.12.4.1 shall be provided.
7.12.7.5 In addition it shall be recognised that the supply from each inverter,
battery arrangement and PV panel (or identified clustered group), constitutes
a supply, and requires arrangements similar to point of supply, which shall
include switch-disconnection arrangements and shall comply with 7.12.5.
7.12.7.6 If applicable, all exposed conductive parts may require earthing as
prescribed in 6.12.3.

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Derlyn (18-Jul-22), Isetech (18-Jul-22), mygoggie (20-Jul-22)

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## Isetech

I have been chatting to an engineer about working together on Solar projects. It sounds like you need to be very careful about just rushing out and throwing a pile of panels on the roof.

Not all municipal bylaws are the same. 

People are getting a little ahead of themselves and it just seems everyone is going ahead with installations regardless of the consequences.






Source an Engineer.
Municipalities require an ECSA Registered Professional to sign off a Commissioning Report as part of your SSEG application. This aspect might sound intimidating, but trust me, the Engineers’ charges are much lower than that of the fines you might face if you don’t have one.

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## Isetech

Let this be a warning to anyone signing off these solar installations. 

The person who is going to become responsible for the installation as it filters down the line,

Not the owner, because they will say they did the responsible thing and got a registered person to do the job and verify it is safe. 

Not the person who sold the system, they dont sign for anything or even have to make sure the product is safe to use in SA. 

Not the person with the green card, because they dont have the authority to sign off solar systems.

What is going to be interesting, is "when" they plan to start checking and issuing fines. 

Do they have the man power to get the regs sorted out and track and follow up investigation? 

I hear the only reason our municipality hasnt been worrying about solar installations is because they dont have the manpower to run the department never mind still check who is installing solar panels or registering systems. 

So it seems for now people will just do what needs to be done to keep the lights on and worry about the law when the municipality get their act together.

They have no control over all the dangerous illegal connections,  how they still going to control solar installations?

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## Blurock

Thank you for this information. With rising energy costs, this is something to seriously consider.

What is the legal position if you want to switch from municipal to solar?
We have a small complex with 6 units individually metered by the municipality.
We have been told that it would be cheaper to have an installation for the complex including time of use etc.
According to the experts we would not be allowed to do that without approval from the municipality.

Is that true and would it be a saving considering the outrageous cost for equipment and installation?

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## GCE

> Thank you for this information. With rising energy costs, this is something to seriously consider.
> 
> What is the legal position if you want to switch from municipal to solar?
> We have a small complex with 6 units individually metered by the municipality.
> We have been told that it would be cheaper to have an installation for the complex including time of use etc.
> According to the experts we would not be allowed to do that without approval from the municipality.
> 
> Is that true and would it be a saving considering the outrageous cost for equipment and installation?


There are pros and cons to taking bulk supply from the municipality and then doing private metering to the individual units.There will be a cost to convert from household to bulk and then a cost for private metering with time of use.

It would mean that your Body Corporate would make the money which will save on levies .

There could be an argument started with who uses more electricity at night and then there will be the problem with battery storage.
Do you do a bulk battery on mains and restrict each household on grid off or does each unit have there own inverter and battery which will throw the price again.

Having sat on Body corp type environments there could be more infighting then it is worth.

All in all , my feeling for a domestic type set up it would be better to go individual.

On an office complex could work differently as usage would mainly be daytime.

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Blurock (20-Jul-22)

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## mygoggie

Hi @GCE, would you mind if I copy your post in to a thread I am writing on my own PV design process on another forum?

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## GCE

Interesting post that was picked up on Social Media 

Looks like SAPVIA have finally realized that to install PV you first need to be a Registered Electrical Contractor.

They make the statement that they need to revisit the rules in accepting Green Card members .

They appear to in this post openly admit that they have been allowing members in as PV Green Card members without being Electrical Contractors which to me means that the PV Green card is really just a Hype started by Training centers to rack in money with little thought to the legal requirements  

How do you now carry on calling it the ultimate PV installer going forward when you know that some members are not Electrical Contractors and have paid money out for courses and set up companies based on the PV Green Card status .

If I was a potential client or past client and appointed a PV installer based on the PV Green card hype , I would be nervous that my installation is not legally compliant .  

Hopefully now Homeowners associations that have been insisting on Green Card members only allowed in, realize that they have been fed a story .

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## Dylboy

That is very interesting !

I went to the Solar Show and asked a training company about why non electrical contractors are doing installs and had some round about answers but basically they said they realize it now and working a way forward.

I would say 90% of the people there who install are not registered IE or MIE or even electricians let alone electrical contractors...

@GCE, do you perhaps have a link to that screenshot perhaps ? Edit: I see it was mailed to you, I tried to see on their site this info but I can't find it. Will keep searching.

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## Isetech

Solar installations are DIY projects. 

You can buy solar products cheaper than some installers. 

I dont think people realise how many solar in installations are being done as DIY projects, you just have to join a few groups and forums to see all the DIY projects. It does make it easier for insurance companies and suppliers to identify them in case there is a claim.

Inspectors are openly offering to test DIY projects for a small fee.

I think the way smart people are looking at it, ride the crest wave while the councils, electrical industry and DOL scramble to find their way in the maze. the gravy train has left the station months ago, smart people with money have already made millions.

Very clever the way this industry has created a shortage which has resulted in massive price increases. Because people are desperate thanks to load shedding, they are blinded throwing money at the industry. 

So here is a problem we have identified, the voltage in some industrial areas is over 250VAC due to the feed back from the massive solar system installed on a few of the factories surrounding the place we are working, as more and more panels are being fitted and grid tied, so the problem is going to increase. Throw in a few large compressors and other industrial  machines, I can only see transient spikes getting worse.

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Dylboy (24-Aug-22)

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## Dylboy

100% agreed that the DIY market is huge. Their is lots to be saved for DiY. What needs to happen is a CoC not supplied for their work as it was not done under the general control of an IE of MIE.

Best case is if they sell the house they will get a CoC if proven safe and all that...


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## Dylboy

> Solar installations are DIY projects. 
> 
> You can buy solar products cheaper than some installers. 
> 
> I dont think people realise how many solar in installations are being done as DIY projects, you just have to join a few groups and forums to see all the DIY projects. It does make it easier for insurance companies and suppliers to identify them in case there is a claim.
> 
> Inspectors are openly offering to test DIY projects for a small fee.
> 
> I think the way smart people are looking at it, ride the crest wave while the councils, electrical industry and DOL scramble to find their way in the maze. the gravy train has left the station months ago, smart people with money have already made millions.
> ...


Big issue here is there must not be feedback at all... Needs to not happen as there is no standard or control for it yet... 

I saw a guys install pumping 5000 watts into the grid at 230V so he him self was supplying the neighbours basically so the transformer had less load thus higher voltage... The oke who installed it was not a sparky or maybe didn't care to understand the inverter.

This problem of higher voltage as you say is going to come to a point where the transformers will be switched off when the sun is shining hahaha

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## GCE

> Big issue here is there must not be feedback at all... Needs to not happen as there is no standard or control for it yet... 
> 
> I saw a guys install pumping 5000 watts into the grid at 230V so he him self was supplying the neighbours basically so the transformer had less load thus higher voltage... The oke who installed it was not a sparky or maybe didn't care to understand the inverter.
> 
> This problem of higher voltage as you say is going to come to a point where the transformers will be switched off when the sun is shining hahaha
> 
> Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk


There is controls in place in the NERSA document 

The reason all solar projects must be registered is to monitor transformers as you are not allowed to go more than 75% of max loading 
It is the reason that you can only go 25% of main C/Breaker size 

There are towns that are stopping solar due to the 75% being reached 

If your system is installed and not registered with your local Utility you could be charged with Tampering and your supply disconnected

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## Isetech

How many people or companies have been charged ?

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## GCE

> How many people or companies have been charged ?


In this country the wheels turn slowly - It will come 
The more PV installed and the less utilities are making will push them to go out and find the culprits so that they get an availability charge for the network.

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## Derlyn

Does the above apply to generators as well ?

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## Dave A

> How many people or companies have been charged ?


Interesting question.

Tell you what - I wouldn't be surprised if Ethekwini is one of the first to start...
And they'll be going for the *owner* if the system isn't registered with them.

Now there's some food for thought.

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## Isetech

> Interesting question.
> 
> Tell you what - I wouldn't be surprised if Ethekwini is one of the first to start...
> And they'll be going for the *owner* if the system isn't registered with them.
> 
> Now there's some food for thought.


Have yo tried to register a solar system with them?

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## Dylboy

I went to the solar show, NERSA said go to your munic and eskom I had to explain what an electrical contractor was.... 

The left and right arms dont know of each other.

I went to Joburg Munic website and nothing I can find to register a system at all... Probably some stupid hidden link but I cant find it at all.

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## Isetech

> I went to the solar show, NERSA said go to your munic and eskom I had to explain what an electrical contractor was.... 
> 
> The left and right arms dont know of each other.
> 
> I went to Joburg Munic website and nothing I can find to register a system at all... Probably some stupid hidden link but I cant find it at all.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk



I must give eThekwini credit, their website id very helpful. You can find most of the information on the website. Their response time to to emails I send them are generally within 48 hrs. If they are going to take on this mammoth task of trying to police the solar industry, they are going to need a lot more staff and training. 

https://www.durban.gov.za/pages/resi...icity-services

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## Dylboy

Dug deeper and it seems City Power here in Joburg rule the roost with the registering of PV systems... Goign to phone tomorrow and email to find more info.

Intrestingly they speak of 25% of main CB for max size of inverter if grid tied.

They even say 60A main CB may not have a a system larger than 4.6 KVA...

I smiled my supplier this and some questions to see what they say... Other wise every Hybrid 5kw is illegal if they have an AC input from the Grid 

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Justloadit (26-Aug-22)

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## Derlyn

Felt like doing some maths.
Single phase voltage is 230V with a 10% tolerance either way, so anything from 207V to 253V is acceptable.

So 25% of 60A = 15A.

So at the lowest acceptable voltage, the power will be 207V x 15A = 3.105 Kw.

At the highest acceptable voltage, the power will be 253V x 15A = 3.795 Kw.

It will be interesting to know how they calculated it to give a result of 4.6 Kw.

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## GCE

> Felt like doing some maths.
> Single phase voltage is 230V with a 10% tolerance either way, so anything from 207V to 253V is acceptable.
> 
> So 25% of 60A = 15A.
> 
> So at the lowest acceptable voltage, the power will be 207V x 15A = 3.105 Kw.
> 
> At the highest acceptable voltage, the power will be 253V x 15A = 3.795 Kw.
> 
> It will be interesting to know how they calculated it to give a result of 4.6 Kw.


230V x 80 Amps x 25% = 4.6

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Derlyn (26-Aug-22)

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## Dylboy

Yes sorry maybe have been 80A none the less they even have a table..

If you Google Joburg city power solar application then Segen have a PDF you can download that outlines it.

I went to City power site and can not easily find the forms but the process sowmhere is written there 

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Derlyn (26-Aug-22)

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## Justloadit

> Dug deeper and it seems City Power here in Joburg rule the roost with the registering of PV systems... Goign to phone tomorrow and email to find more info.
> 
> Intrestingly they speak of 25% of main CB for max size of inverter if grid tied.
> 
> They even say 60A main CB may not have a a system larger than 4.6 KVA...
> 
> I smiled my supplier this and some questions to see what they say... Other wise every Hybrid 5kw is illegal if they have an AC input from the Grid 
> 
> Sent from my CPH2197 using Tapatalk


Let us know what info you get.
Will be very interesting

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## Isetech

It seems all metros are using the same document. 

I believe this document should be discussed in more detail, so that everyone can understands the contents and calculations. 

When I enquired about registration, I was told to check to first check the guidelines. I have downloaded it but been pre occupied this week (at least we got news today) so I should be able to focus on work from today.

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## Derlyn

The 25% limit. Is this for all provinces.

Just spoke to an installer now that's busy with an 8Kw grid tied inverter installation. He says it's applicable in Western Cape and Gauteng but, as yet, not in Eastern Cape.

Don't shoot me, I'm only selling what I bought.

Any thoughts ?

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## Isetech

Just for the record, I dont believe there should be prosecution until there is more public awareness and registration training provided.

It is so typical of SA, they will pull you over and fine you because your vehicle is not roadworthy, yet nobody is held responsible for the extremely dangerous roads we have to travel on. 

Like this solar industry, they dump us in the deep end with stage 6 load shedding, create a massive shortage of solar equipment, threaten they going prosecute for non registration with the metro who dont have the manpower or skills to deal with this massive problem. Allow private companies to make up rules as they go, offer training to people who are not suitably qualified, sell product which have no certification to anyone who feels they can DIY the installation.

We wonder why everyone takes the solar industry with a pinch of salt. 

It should start with public awareness, a set of regulations accredited by the DOL and added to the sans book, certified training for suitably qualified people. 

The metro's should employ and train people to deal with questions, registrations and policing. 

It also doesn't help if the DIYer can buy the equipment from certain websites and install it cheaper than an accredited installer who has to register and sign off the project. 

It is not rocket science to track and trace, people who are installing DIY systems and using people advertising to sign off the jobs at a small fee  :Wink:  

All you need is google, access to solar forums and groups, a profile of customers electricity accounts and you can literally pin point the date of installation.

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## GCE

> The 25% limit. Is this for all provinces.
> 
> Just spoke to an installer now that's busy with an 8Kw grid tied inverter installation. He says it's applicable in Western Cape and Gauteng but, as yet, not in Eastern Cape.
> 
> Don't shoot me, I'm only selling what I bought.
> 
> Any thoughts ?


It is a NERSA stipulation , the 25% , which obviously Eskom , various utilities etc all sit around the table and come up with the document.

So in short - it is applicable to the eastern Cape.

It is also a NERSA requirement that the utlities keep an updated list of where and how many KW of PV are installed under there area .

It will be Nersa that will force the utilities to go look and find the PV systems that are not registered.

With regards to the 25% - First read the definitions then the content 


_generator size
maximum change in active power flow at the point of utility connection for a generator trip (or rapid
reduction in output) when generating at full active power output
NOTE Some or all of the power generated may be consumed by the customers’ local loads. Where there is no
local storage the generator size is the active power rating of the installed generation. In cases with local
storage, the storage can be used to reduce the effective size of the generator by compensating for variations in
generation output, hence the definition used above.


4.1 General
NOTE 1 The NRS 097-2 series of specifications specify the minimum technical requirements for LV
generators connected to the South African grid, as aligned to the requirements of the grid connection code for
renewable power plants connected to the electricity transmission system or the distribution system in South
Africa.
NOTE 2 Requirements given in this section of NRS 097-2 should be used to evaluate LV generator grid
interconnection applications. LV (230 V/400 V) connected generators that fall within these criteria are proposed
to follow a simplified connection process that will not require detailed network studies.
NOTE 3 Simplified criteria rules are subject to the following:
a) An individual limit of 25 % of NMD will typically support a penetration level (percentage of customers that
install a generator) of 30 % to 50 %, which is considered a reasonable and acceptable compromise
between restricting individual generator sizes versus restricting penetration levels.
5 NRS 097-2-3:2014
b) The network feeder design After Diversity Maximum Demand (ADMD) is unknown.
c) The size of plant, type of generation, location of plant and date of installation of ALL generating plants
should be captured and documented by the utility CONTINUALLY.

4.1.7 Utilities may modify the criteria, or add additional criteria, to meet their specific requirements
considering their network characteristics.
_

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## Isetech

I believe part of the problem is also that most people are relying on tits and bits they "hear", instead of studying all the facts. 

I know I am guilty of this, partly because I have been around long enough to know that the chances of being caught is so slim, due to the lack of man power skills and and policing.

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## Isetech

Do we have to comply to this document ? 

This document is not a South African National Standard

https://www.sseg.org.za/wp-content/u...2020-07-20.pdf

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## Dylboy

What if we have the essentials on an off Grid inverter, i.e does not have mains connection, BUT then have a charger that goes to the battery to use the grid on cloudy days etc ? Is that then not needing any registration as not grid connected i.e can not back feed etc. ?

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## Derlyn

> a) An individual limit of 25 % of NMD 
> [/I]


What does NMD mean?

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## Isetech

3.2 Abbreviations

ADMD: after diversity maximum demand
EG: embedded generator
LV: low voltageMV: medium voltage
NMD: notified maximum demand
OLTC: on-load tap changing
RVC: rapid voltage change
SSEG: small-scale embedded generator

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Derlyn (28-Aug-22)

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## GCE

> Do we have to comply to this document ? 
> 
> This document is not a South African National Standard
> 
> https://www.sseg.org.za/wp-content/u...2020-07-20.pdf


The utilities basically make it a Bylaw - so yes you need to comply

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## Derlyn

Pasted below is a short video about solar scams.

Mike ( you either love or hate him ) Bolhuis gives some advice.
Nobody can take away the fact that he is a brilliant private investigator.

Note what the one client has to say about a COC, insurance and the amount of assistance he got from various government departments.

This video, irrespective of the fact that they deny it, does seem to be an ad, however, the info contained is valuable.
We all know that this industry, at the moment, is a gemors and this is like preaching to the converted, but have a squiz.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0PmV0DjXB8

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## Isetech

Was the ad intended to focus on the PI or the solar company or both companies  :Wink:  




> This video, irrespective of the fact that they deny it, does seem to be an ad

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## Isetech

Solar edge seems to be a product not promoted much in the media, but whenever I go to large sites or quality installs, I notice Solar Edge seems to be a very popular product.

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## Dylboy

I like solar edge, they use optimisers so Great for large sites to monitor individual panels and the biggest plus is shading or dirt won't hinder the production of the whole string but only that dirty panel.

It's not big on residential due to cost and ease of access I believe. Also Sunsynk is the word at the moment that they all want haha.

I'm now looking at off Grid solutions to not be grid tied to avoid all the issues if possible. How ever it seems a bit futile as a hybrid just does it all....

Still need to find time to phone City Power and get more info but it all stems on if it is grid tied or not. 

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