# General Business Category > Technology Forum > [Opinion] Telkom reaches new  lows (and you thought they were there already)

## Marq

My ADSL speed came down to about 2.6mbps from a usual 5.3mbps, over the past few weeks along with latency errors and a few other unexplained problems.
So the isp logs a fault for me.
Usually Telkom takes takes about 4 days to get around to dealing with their faults in this area. This time a very impressive 4 hours, but being impressed was short lived.

Nicholas from Telkom phones in, and in a take it or leave it type voice and attitude tells me:

That there is nothing they can do about this speed issue as the current contention ratio is set at 100:1 up from the agreed 20:1, and we must just suck it up. Its not his fault that there are so many extra users on these days.He also informed that they were well within the spec for 4mbps-10mbps service which is actually 1.6mbps.He further informed me that if I wanted faster speeds I could try the cellular networks and their huge prices. What sort of service did I expect at the cheap rates I pay.He also informed me that Telkom had not made a profit for the past few years and was unlikely to be spending anything to fix this issue or make our lives any different.International standards were not their concern. Basically this is Africa - get used to it.Bottom line is that there was nothing he could do about it, and I got the impression that even if he could do something he was not going to do anything anyway.

Is anyone surprised that Telkom is battling?  :No: 
Is there anyone that wants to remain with Telkom or go with 8ta?: :EEK!: 

For some strange reason my speed was back up to 5.2mbps last night -go figure?

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## Dave A

Their attitude to their clients certainly sucks. I was going to do a rant about... oh moving on - it'll take too long to post right now and that's why I didn't do the rant in the first place.

Marq, are you connected via the Durban North exchange?

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## ians

8 ta now know as Telkom mobile seems to be putting huge strain on the MTN network. Always only had good things to say about MTN, unfortunately I believe they are being pulled down by overloading due to Telkom mobile.

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## Marq

Yep - Durban North exchange.
Ranting about Telkom (or any government ganster org for that matter) is like peeing in your dark suit pants - It gives you a warm feeling but nobody notices.

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## SilverNodashi

how much bandwidth do you use?

And do you actually use the phone line for calls

If you don't use your phone line, and consume less than 7 - 10GB, you could use 3G at about the same price. 
8Ta has 10GB day + 10GB night deal @ R299/pm.

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## Dave A

> If you don't use your phone line, and consume less than 7 - 10GB, you could use 3G at about the same price.


3G comes with some significant lag in this neck of the woods, Rudi. It's fine for big file downloads, but for normal browsing all those little delays add up to a pretty unpleasant experience.

Marq, much like you I also experienced a noticeable dip in speed for about the last 2 weeks, including a fairly significant shaped deprioritisation (practically an outage) on Port 25 calls which led to me making some phonecalls early last week.  I was told that Telkom had some cable damage issues to deal with in the area and the newish IP allocation system was presenting some load balancing problems. 

Service levels do seem to have improved some this week.

Doesn't account for the BA from the Telkom guy though  :Frown:

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## pmbguy

I am looking at changing from Telkom to Neotel and I found hellkom.co.za :Applaud:  during my investigations. 

Brief Telkom versus Neotel Comparison Summary
- Calls from Neotel to Telkom (local and national) are cheaper than Telkom to Neotel during both peak and off-peak
- Calls from Neotel to Cellphones are cheaper than Telkom during both peak and off-peak
- Calls from Telkom to Neotel (local and national) are 65c/min during both peak and off-peak
- Calls from Neotel to Neotel (local) are 17c during both peak and off-peak (Telkom to Telkom is 43c)	 

 	Local Calls..	 

 	..during PEAK time	..during OFF-PEAK time 
 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 
from Neotel	34c	17c	R1.76	21c	17c	R1.09
from Telkom	43c	65c	R1.89	19c	65c	R1.17

 	National Calls..	 

 	..during PEAK time	..during OFF-PEAK time 
 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 
from Neotel	57c	43c	R1.76	33c	43c	R1.09
from Telkom	65c	65c	R1.89	33c	65c	R1.17


 	Call charge calculations - 5 mins to 1 hour
The tables below indicate what calls to both networks will cost depending on the length of the call. The Telkom amounts include the minimum charge. 	 


 	Local Calls - Calling from Neotel..	 

 	..during PEAK time	..during OFF-PEAK time 
 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 
5 mins 	R1.70	R0.85	R8.80	R1.05	R0.85	R5.45
10 mins 	R3.40	R1.70	R17.60	R2.10	R1.70	R10.90
15 mins 	R5.10	R2.55	R26.40	R3.15	R2.55	R16.35
20 mins 	R6.80	R3.40	R35.20	R4.20	R3.40	R21.80
25 mins 	R8.50	R4.25	R44.00	R5.25	R4.25	R27.25
30 mins 	R10.20	R5.10	R52.80	R6.30	R5.10	R32.70
35 mins 	R11.90	R5.95	R61.60	R7.35	R5.95	R38.15
40 mins 	R13.60	R6.80	R70.40	R8.40	R6.80	R43.60
45 mins 	R15.30	R7.65	R79.20	R9.45	R7.65	R49.05
50 mins 	R17.00	R8.50	R88.00	R10.50	R8.50	R54.50
55 mins 	R18.70	R9.35	R96.80	R11.55	R9.35	R59.95
60 mins 	R20.40	R10.20	R105.60	R12.60	R10.20	R65.40

 	National Calls - Calling from Neotel..	 

 	..during PEAK time	..during OFF-PEAK time 
 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 
5 mins 	R2.85	R2.15	R8.80	R1.65	R2.15	R5.45
10 mins 	R5.70	R4.30	R17.60	R3.30	R4.30	R10.90
15 mins 	R8.55	R6.45	R26.40	R4.95	R6.45	R16.35
20 mins 	R11.40	R8.60	R35.20	R6.60	R8.60	R21.80
25 mins 	R14.25	R10.75	R44.00	R8.25	R10.75	R27.25
30 mins 	R17.10	R12.90	R52.80	R9.90	R12.90	R32.70
35 mins 	R19.95	R15.05	R61.60	R11.55	R15.05	R38.15
40 mins 	R22.80	R17.20	R70.40	R13.20	R17.20	R43.60
45 mins 	R25.65	R19.35	R79.20	R14.85	R19.35	R49.05
50 mins 	R28.50	R21.50	R88.00	R16.50	R21.50	R54.50
55 mins 	R31.35	R23.65	R96.80	R18.15	R23.65	R59.95
60 mins 	R34.20	R25.80	R105.60	R19.80	R25.80	R65.40

 	Local Calls - Calling from Telkom..	 

 	..during PEAK time	..during OFF-PEAK time
 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 	..to Telkom 	..to Neotel 	..to Cell 
5 mins 	R2.79	R3.89	R9.45	R1.59	R3.89	R5.85
10 mins 	R4.94	R7.14	R18.90	R2.54	R7.14	R11.70
15 mins 	R7.09	R10.39	R28.35	R3.49	R10.39	R17.55
20 mins 	R9.24	R13.64	R37.80	R4.44	R13.64	R23.40
25 mins 	R11.39	R16.89	R47.25	R5.39	R16.89	R29.25
30 mins 	R13.54	R20.14	R56.70	R6.34	R20.14	R35.10
35 mins 	R15.69	R23.39	R66.15	R7.29	R23.39	R40.95
40 mins 	R17.84	R26.64	R75.60	R8.24	R26.64	R46.80
45 mins 	R19.99	R29.89	R85.05	R9.19	R29.89	R52.65
50 mins 	R22.14	R33.14	R94.50	R10.14	R33.14	R58.50
55 mins 	R24.29	R36.39	R103.95	R11.09	R36.39	R64.35
60 mins 	R26.44	R39.64	R113.40	R12.04	R39.64	R70.20

 	National Calls - Calling from Telkom 	 

 	during PEAK time	during OFF-PEAK time 
 	to Telkom 	to Neotel 	to Cell 	to Telkom 	to Neotel 	to Cell 
5 mins 	R3.89	R3.89	R9.45	R2.29	R3.89	R5.85
10 mins 	R7.14	R7.14	R18.90	R3.94	R7.14	R11.70
15 mins 	R10.39	R10.39	R28.35	R5.59	R10.39	R17.55
20 mins 	R13.64	R13.64	R37.80	R7.24	R13.64	R23.40
25 mins 	R16.89	R16.89	R47.25	R8.89	R16.89	R29.25
30 mins 	R20.14	R20.14	R56.70	R10.54	R20.14	R35.10
35 mins 	R23.39	R23.39	R66.15	R12.19	R23.39	R40.95
40 mins 	R26.64	R26.64	R75.60	R13.84	R26.64	R46.80
45 mins 	R29.89	R29.89	R85.05	R15.49	R29.89	R52.65
50 mins 	R33.14	R33.14	R94.50	R17.14	R33.14	R58.50
55 mins 	R36.39	R36.39	R103.95	R18.79	R36.39	R64.35
60 mins 	R39.64	R39.64	R113.40	R20.44	R39.64	R70.20



http://www.hellkom.co.za/telkom-vs-neotel-call-charges/

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## Marq

I use about 30gigs a month and pay R294 for that.




> 8Ta has 10GB day + 10GB night deal @ R299/pm.


Rudi - Using 8ta is just asking for more silent ranting and rolling with Telkom  :Frown: 
If there was a decent option, I would be the first to move across to it.

I dont think neotel is going to be an option. They only have 150,000 subscribers and need to get scale.

If MTN or Vodacom get their hands on it, which is still a rumour - then the chances are that they will collude with Telkom and we will not see much if any difference. The service levels will also be at the usual low big corporate gangster levels. 

If DiData picks it up - then maybe a better option for us data consumers as they will probably concentrate on that area and leave the  phone and call service to Telkom.

Who knows what the answer is for us plebs - what we need is a network that is not controlled by Telkom and political poltroons - and thats not going to happen soon.

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## Marq

This is the latest telkom plan to 'upgrade' everyone.

So I ask you - If 1,6Mbps is the current standard spec for the Fastest DSL line (per Nicholas from Telkom's take or leave it department)

*What are they actually upgrading and whats the point?*

Another marketing spin doctor BS designed to keep the sheeple glowing and bubbling along in the hope that one day we can achieve decent speeds.

So if we are averaging around about a  ,6-1 average (thumbsuck your number here) - what should Telkom be aspiring to.

According to http://www.bloomberg.com/ the 10 fastest Average speeds in the world in January this year were:-
Singapore - 30,7Israel - 30,9Bulgaria - 32,1Switzerland - 32,4Belgium - 32,7Romania - 37,4Latvia - 37,5Japan - 42,2South Korea - 48,8Hong Kong 54,1

Seems as though there is some growth room.
I dont think we need these super fast speeds to get a better edge but I would imagine probably double of what we have may cut it and get us out of cleft stick mode.

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## ians

If you are happy with super fast speed of around 0.53 Mbps on an iphone5 or the like, then 8 ta (Telkom mobile) would definitely be the way to go. Their response to my "no signal" line dropping problem and no data coverage,  "We are still new in the data network industry so you will just have to be patient, it will improve in years to come"

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## SilverNodashi

> I use about 30gigs a month and pay R294 for that.


And how much do you pay for the phone line + ADSL ? Another R300-odd?




> Rudi - Using 8ta is just asking for more silent ranting and rolling with Telkom 
> If there was a decent option, I would be the first to move across to it.
> 
> I dont think neotel is going to be an option. They only have 150,000 subscribers and need to get scale.
> 
> If MTN or Vodacom get their hands on it, which is still a rumour - then the chances are that they will collude with Telkom and we will not see much if any difference. The service levels will also be at the usual low big corporate gangster levels. 
> 
> If DiData picks it up - then maybe a better option for us data consumers as they will probably concentrate on that area and leave the  phone and call service to Telkom.
> 
> Who knows what the answer is for us plebs - what we need is a network that is not controlled by Telkom and political poltroons - and thats not going to happen soon.


I think you're approaching this from a "too political" point of view. I'm using the 8ta special at home, since there's no ADSL lines in our area due to cable theft. It performs much better than Vodacom / MTN in the same area. Another plus point is that I can use it pretty much anywhere, well anywhere where there's 8ta coverage. Can't do that with ADSL. 

Our ADSL line in the office has been rather flaky in the past 3 months, apparently Alberton is "over capacity" and it's downright impossible to upgrade due to the high metal content in the cliffs around us. I know this is an issue with normal radio (FM and AM), wifi and wimax. 
If / when Vodacom offers a better deal than 8ta, I *might* consider using it. but it's so damn slow around here that I don't think I'll bother.

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## Marq

> And how much do you pay for the phone line + ADSL ? Another R300-odd?
> 
> If / when Vodacom offers a better deal than 8ta, I *might* consider using it. but it's so damn slow around here that I don't think I'll bother.


I think we are caught between a rock and hard place with this whole scenario. 
Best of the bad bunch thing and making do with bad offerings.

The thing is that we have to bulletproof our business's to avoid downtime.
With the Guest House business, I offer a wifi internet service so not sure if one can do that with a mobile hta type option.
Because I offer that service, I might as well stay with the landline option there. 
This year though, we have probably had about two weeks of no landline comms thanks to 'technical' faults.
Even though the slow speeds make you tear your hair out, at least we have comms..........but thats what frustrates me here, we tend to accept this bad service and have given up complaining and campaigning for better.

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## SilverNodashi

> I think we are caught between a rock and hard place with this whole scenario. 
> Best of the bad bunch thing and making do with bad offerings.
> 
> The thing is that we have to bulletproof our business's to avoid downtime.
> With the Guest House business, I offer a wifi internet service so not sure if one can do that with a mobile hta type option.
> Because I offer that service, I might as well stay with the landline option there. 
> This year though, we have probably had about two weeks of no landline comms thanks to 'technical' faults.
> Even though the slow speeds make you tear your hair out, at least we have comms..........but thats what frustrates me here, we tend to accept this bad service and have given up complaining and campaigning for better.


I know you don't want to hear this, but why do you rely on ADSL for business? Sure, it's cheap, but at the end of the day you get what you pay for. ADSL has NO guarentees and no SLA

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## Marq

I hear you but then how do I offer a wifi network to guests?

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## SilverNodashi

> I hear you but then how do I offer a wifi network to guests?


You'll need a 3G router, if you don't have one already. 

I use my Andriod tablet as wifi hotspot, both at home and on the road. 
Or get one of these: http://www.netram.co.za/New-Products...r-150mbps.html (these guys are in Durbs), or any of these: http://www.dbg.co.za/index.php?cPath=32_85

I have one of these @ home with an iBurst modem, but it could take a 3G modem as well: http://www.dbg.co.za/product_info.ph...roducts_id=423

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Marq (01-Aug-13)

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## Marq

You have given me some thoughts to process.

My last trip to the Telkom sales office did not give me an answer like this which is why I was under the impression that I was stuck with the landline adsl option only.

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## dcs

As an aside, I am with Telkom ADSL and recently upgraded my router (to the NetGear N300).  On installation I found my connection speed was significantly faster and the router comes standard with a USB port for a Wi-Fi backup.  I gather that there have been some technical changes which my old router (Billion 800 VGT) did not use.  I never saw any notices about this.

Another point to note is that Telkom is currently rolling out something called VDSL which "should" be available in main centers by 2015.  Theoretical speeds with this are really impressive, but I guess that over-selling will slow this down impressively as well.  You will definitely need a new router to connect and get the higher speeds.  I am not a Telkom fan either, but the Neotel option is really another wireless connection and based on what the reality is overseas, I would not consider a wireless only option for business use.  Overseas the fastest connections are landline and not wireless as in SA and ultimately the same must happen here, and sooner rather than later.

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## SilverNodashi

> You have given me some thoughts to process.
> 
> My last trip to the Telkom sales office did not give me an answer like this which is why I was under the impression that I was stuck with the landline adsl option only.


sales reps, especially those working in "shops" are generally useless. they earn a salary and could't care less if you got what you needed, or not. just my 2c

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## ians

Not if you speak the right person.

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## Marq

For interest, latest stats.....




> Midrand has been rated South Africas top broadband suburb with an average speed of 10.92Mbps, while the country continues to lag behind its peers in rolling out high-speed internet services.
> 
> The latest Ookla net index published last week shows that the average download speed in South Africa is 4.03Mbps, which is far lower than the global average of 13.64Mbps. There is not even a single suburb in South Africa with an average broadband speed higher than the global average or matching it.
> 
> This comes after Akamais latest report placed South Africa 80th in world in the first quarter of this year in terms of connectivity. This is despite internet connections rising 16% over last year


http://business.iafrica.com/businessday/873971.html

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## Marq

Do you think its the end of the Road for telkom......or will Vodacom and MTN take over and give us more of the same?




> Telkom has been insulated from reality for so long that any competitive instincts it possessed have long since atrophied. Its ill-fated venture into mobile telephony and data is an amusing case in point. Launched in 2010, its mobile network has stalled at 1.5-million subscribers and continues to bleed billions of rands a year. In a classic case of shooting the messenger, it has abandoned the original 8ta brand in favour of the dubiously generic "Telkom Mobile".
> 
> So embarrassing are these numbers that Telkom has stopped separating out its mobile operations in its financial statements. And now Telkom's last refuge, the "local loop", is about to be unbundled. This network of copper cables, spread throughout South Africa, is what you use when you phone someone on a landline or connect to ADSL. It is the only network over which Telkom still has an absolute monopoly. The unbundling process will force Telkom to allow competitors to use the network at reasonable rates.
> 
> Local loop unbundling has been delayed countless times since 2006, but it may finally be under way. Icasa has submitted its draft regulations to Yunus Carrim, the new communications minister, and if all goes according to plan, the draft will be approved within a fortnight. That may be wishful thinking, but even a further year of delay is not enough time for Telkom to prepare for the disruption of unbundling. It made over R10-billion from data in the past financial year  nearly 30% of its total revenue. It will not be able to sustain such revenues when it has to compete for customers in the open market.
> 
> To their credit, Telkom's new leaders do seem to recognise the need for change. If they hope to keep the company afloat while their legacy businesses die, they will need to cuddle up to wholesale data customers such as internet service Telkom, they will jump at the chance.
> 
> Telkom may not realise it, but millions of South Africans loathe its brand and everything for which it stands. If its leaders are truly sorry, then they should put their money where their mouths are. For starters, they could unbundle the local loop without any further fuss, drop interconnect fees and reduce line rentals. Nothing says "I'm sorry" like positive actions.providers (ISPs). Considering they have been fighting those same customers in court for the better part of a decade, this realisation is long overdue. And they had better hurry. As the penetration of fibre optic networks increases, Telkom is in real danger of being cut out of the market completely. Fibre is faster, cheaper to maintain and, unlike copper, does not get stolen for scrap. If ISPs and other service providers can connect directly to customers without going through


http://mg.co.za/article/2013-08-04-0...ittle-too-late

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## irneb

> If you are happy with super fast speed of around 0.53 Mbps on an iphone5 or the like, then 8 ta (Telkom mobile) would definitely be the way to go. Their response to my "no signal" line dropping problem and no data coverage,  "We are still new in the data network industry so you will just have to be patient, it will improve in years to come"


Just a question ... how much do you pay for that and what's your cap? Even on my prepaid vodacom I get 20GB for R500 and speedwise I'm seeing between 4Mbits/s up to 10Mbits/s (i.e. download throughput between 400kbytes/sec up to 1MByte per sec) - depending on time of day, sometimes (late at night / early morning) I've even seen spikes going to around 2MBytes/sec (i.e. close to 20MBits/sec). Good enough to watch HD video direct from Amazon or the like.

Latencies are usually the issue on 3G/HSDPA. Wonder if we're ever going to get the LTE which is now available in Europe. Apparently that has latencies close to the same as a wired / fiber connection. http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadb...-its-fast.html

Look at those ping times in the tests (i.e. latency test). Anything below 500ms (half a second) is considered acceptable, so 36ms is nearly nothing. The international test is longer because it has more jumps beyond the LTE connection, even an ADSL/Fiber would have to go through those same jumps - but still at 204ms (1/5th second) to receive data after requesting is very good indeed. I've personally seen ping times for 3G/HSDPA between 700ms and 3000ms, on ADSL/Fibre (NeoTel BroadLink) between 10 and 300.

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