# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Covid-19 - UIF process for Electrical Contractors

## GCE

Hi 

Thought I would stick this under the Electrical contracting forum since it is relevant to Electrical contractors only.
This particular process anyway - I am assuming that more Employers associations and Bargaining councils will follow suit.

There are going to be challenges obtaining the required information for submission and thought the thread could be a place to place questions an answers for contractors 

The information is on the NBCEI website - http://www.nbcei.co.za/UIF.html - and I have loaded the circular for information - There are various templates on the website that need to be completed 


National circular 03 April 2020 UIF COVID 19.pdf

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## Dave A

I'm adding a link to the article by Stephen Khola - COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE NATIONAL BARGAINING COUNCIL FOR THE ELECTRICAL INDUSTRY OF SOUTH AFRICA AND UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND. Not only does this deal with the UIF claim processing initiative, but also sets out the relief given to employers and employees in respect of pension fund and other collective agreement related contributions.

Graham, I agree some aspects of this has me scratching my head. For example, are we expected to open a separate bank account dedicated for this?
If not, should we anyway?

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## GCE

The separate bank account issue appears to be for NBCEI only to show funds received and paid out to contractors - Looks like we only have to be able to show proof that we paid across to the employees.

The 3 months worth of certified bank statements is going to be a challenge and doesn't make sense when UIF already has monthly returns that would surely show red flags if you suddenly inflated salaries.Even easier would be to submit 3 months worth of EMP201.

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## GCE

We provided proof of payment batch for the wages paid to our staff and that seems to be acceptable vs supplying 3 months of bank statements .
Used the manual form instead of payroll forms which has also been accepted so far.
Thank goodness for copy and paste function which made it less painful

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## GCE

Hi 
I see Pastel has finally released an update that will produce the report needed for TERS that should simplify things

The NBCEI has extended the submission date to the 22 April for electrical contractors to get on Board with the UIF claim

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## Dave A

> The NBCEI has extended the submission date to the 22 April for electrical contractors to get on Board with the UIF claim


 :Hmmm: 

Is the window the grant application is for going to change with that? The last circular I got reported a claim period for 27th March through 7th April. With the application deadline extended to 22 April, we may as well claim right up to 30th April.

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## GCE

Not sure Dave - Will ask our connection .
NBCEI was having to adjust there collective agreement to include Covid and submit to DOL which I understood to be happening yesterday
Seems like the paperwork from NBCEI was not as str forward as originally envisaged. 
At least they ,NBCEI , will actually have to work through the lock down and not cruise at idle speed.

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## ians

Did the application as an employer this afternoon... registered online ...logged in... downloaded the documents in xl format ...uploaded them to the laptop ...filled in the spaces... 

UIF reference number : 
shutdown from :
shutdown till :
trade name : 
contact number :
email:
ID number:
Remuneration (monthly) :
employment start :
employment end : 
sector min wage :
leave income :
bank name :
branch code :
account type :
account number :

**and PAYE number:

save as a CSV file and upload with a bank statement... and the employer document ...which is pretty much just the company and banking details.

done.

apparently 36 000 claims were rejected today due to people not saving the xl document in CSV format.

if the next page bombs out ...just go backspace and try again ..it works on the second attempt.

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## Leecatt

From today we are required to carry a new Essential Services Certificate which covers us for the extended lockdown period. The previous certificate became invalid yesterday. 
The certificates will apparently be emailed to us in time or you can download it from the Bizhub

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

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## ians

I am still trying to figue out what to fill in ...this is why i pay a man to do this shyte for me ...i know for a fact that one of those many rejected applications was from me.

Someone posted that there is a pastel update ...i contacted the man about the update ...he had a look ...will send me a bill for a filling in all the spaces and send me a CSV file ready to upload to the uif site ...done and dusted. 

I told him he should offer the service to all his customers ...everyone is happy to pau him.

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## GCE

> Is the window the grant application is for going to change with that? The last circular I got reported a claim period for 27th March through 7th April. With the application deadline extended to 22 April, we may as well claim right up to 30th April.


NBCEI sent out a mail this morning with a new sheet and information required and that the claim date needs to be changed to the 30th

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## GCE

Seems like all the noise and promises from UIF in requesting Bargaining councils to assist with UIF claims was just noise in the same way that Government has requested company's to pay suppliers yet there own departments are not paying.

I have been supportive in Government efforts to " flatten the curve" but the Draconian measures that keep being put into place and the refusal to allow employers to think for themselves and no definite dates to actually start up are starting to shift my thoughts.
They want to have discussions on what day kids will be back to school yet parents need to sit at home without any expectation of dates to return to work- Where do they think the money comes from for school fees.

NBCEI have now put out a circular , which I have attached , which creates more confusion and shows up the weakness in the councils resolve to sort out problems.

Hopefully they actually get there act into gear and start looking at solving the problem rather then becoming part of the problem.

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## ians

GCE ...register online and apply as an employer.

Mine took around 10 days and once i figured out how to seperate the payout ...it is simple.

My employees have been paid ...the next question is can we claim for this month if you dont have enough work to let me return to work.

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## GCE

I was going to load directly but the system picks up that my UIF number has already been registered and has a claim submitted - Because NBCEI did it they have the registration details and passwords. Present communication is lacking from there side and have pasted the reply I received below.
Still waiting for the person to make contact 

_Good evening 

We experienced, and are still experiencing, numerous issues with DOL/UIF regarding the claims we submitted. These issues are completely outside our control.

Your updated claim form(csv) was submitted on 24 April 2020,  but subsequently DOL's online portal crashed and it seems to have been fixed late last week. It has come  to our attention that files (csv’s) uploaded prior or during to the crash are either missing or reflects as invalid on the online portal. There were instances where we could connect during the crash and the uploads reflected as accepted. Nobody was aware that those uploads were in fact not accepted till after DOL made it public that their system had crashed or as they put it “temporary unavailable”.  At the time it was thought that the difficulty connecting or loss of connection was due to high traffic.

This has also affected employers who did direct registration (we have had several employers inform us of this) and I do not know if DOL will fix those themselves or inform those employers to reload their information.

We set up a team nationally to deal with uploads of affected employers.  From feedback in the Industry, and several conversations with UIF staff, the  employers’  information will have to be reloaded per employer and per individual employee as the online portal does not accept re uploads of csv files or reflects the csv’s as incorrect

Elaine, who the team leader of the team mentioned above will be in contact with you regarding the individual employee uploads that has to be done.
_

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## Dave A

Like Graham, I have found that I can't register my electrical company on the online site because the company has already been registered.

If the only way to solve the problem is to do the "add each employee manually" method, I suggest the most viable solution is the NBCEI give each employer their own log in credentials so that we can get on with it. Seems we are invited to go our own way for claims from 1st May. To do so they are going to have to give us log-in credentials anyway...

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## GCE

It seems that the changes to NBCEI collective agreement has finally been gazetted ( attached) which should mean that MOA will now be accepted and hopefully payment forth coming

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## Dave A

Thanks for the feedback. Here's hoping that was the cause of the log jam and there are no other obstacles ahead.

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## Dave A

Here's a new game to play if you're in the mood.

Go to https://uifecc.labour.gov.za/covid19/

Click on *My Payment Status*
Enter NBCEISA in the capture box.
Scroll down the list to find and select your company's UIF number.
To warm things up, here is my electrical company's result -



 :Frown:

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## GCE

Have the same problem - Only consolation is that my UIF number is there and logged 
I see the couple I checked are all zero payments - Hopefully thety are being dealt with as a collective

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## GCE

Has anybody received UIF money through the NBCEI application system 
Has anybody that has not received through NBCEI actually heard from Council 

If I log in I get the same message that Dave got , processed but zero amount - Checked some of my guys ID's on the system which shows they are not registered 

Check some friends ID's on the system and it shows the amount they were paid and the date 

Starting to look like NBCEI has failed miserable in there mandate

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## ians

Everyone I have been in contact with (not linked to NBCEI) have either already been paid or have been notified of a payment due to them.

MY wife for example has not yet received her payment ...however ...when she logs on ...there is a notification on the TERS site indicating that a payment to the company was made on the 27/05/2020

Apparently she has been informed by the company that she will be paid this week.

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## Dave A

We have got an email based chat group going in KZN based on the distribution list of a notification/query sent by Council some time last month (as to whether anyone had received a TERS payout). It has yielded some information:

There was some hope as two electrical contractors had been paid out. However, it turns out they had managed to register and submit a claim on https://uifecc.labour.gov.za/covid19/ directly, so unfortunately this wasn't as a result of the Council effort.

Of these two contractors, one just registered without a problem. Not clear when exactly but it appears he managed to do so before Council had captured that company's UIF number in their system. He got paid out 2 days later after uploading his csv file etc.

The second - I'm still trying to unravel exactly what she managed to do. There's no mention of difficulty registering at https://uifecc.labour.gov.za/covid19/, but a whole lot of stuff about struggling with uFiling access and submitting years worth of UIF returns...

I'm fairly confident that isn't the issue in my case, although this morning -



I have the usual lottery results from uFiling. Yesterday that was all green except the one for May 2020  :Online2long: 

However, in dealing with the uFiling problem, she did deal with *real* people from UIF (via email). Did they manage to detach her from the NBCEISA profile along the way? At this point I don't know.

We are getting the occassional response from Council. In one exchange a contractor had this to say:

Hi

I have been trying since Monday 20 April 2020 after the new web site was announced. The web site will not allow me to register direct as our UIF number has already been registered by the Bargaining Council. I have sent emails to the office of The President, the office of The Deputy President and the office of The Minister for Employment and Labour. 

I do not know if the Bargaining Council can de-register us so that we can do the application ourselves.

Please advise
Kiren responded with this late yesterday:

Good Day *name withheld*

We understand the frustration and are trying our level best to get the contractors registered under or login in details de-registered/cancelled/ paid.

This is truly becoming a nightmare as you are aware the help we get from the UIF call centre is disgusting.

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## GCE

Thanks Dave 
Still don't quite understand why each region is dealing separately - Understood that there was a person in Jhb selected to deal with UIF which would make sense instead of each region trying to deal as separate.
We submit monthly to UIF directly from the wage package and have confirmation back each time - So that should not be blocking me.

Would have thought that since the gazette extended the NBCEI agreement had been lodged that by now the MOA would have been signed and submitted and somebody from UIF allocated to deal with.
I also noticed that UIF have not made any payments since the 7th , or at least not shown so.
Let me try find my diplomatic hat , increase the nicotine intake and make some calls

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## ians

> Thanks Dave 
> Still don't quite understand why each region is dealing separately - Understood that there was a person in Jhb selected to deal with UIF which would make sense instead of each region trying to deal as separate.
> We submit monthly to UIF directly from the wage package and have confirmation back each time - So that should not be blocking me.
> 
> Would have thought that since the gazette extended the NBCEI agreement had been lodged that by now the MOA would have been signed and submitted and somebody from UIF allocated to deal with.
> I also noticed that UIF have not made any payments since the 7th , or at least not shown so.
> Let me try find my diplomatic hat , increase the nicotine intake and make some calls


I find a rubber mallet a 300mmX300mm steel plate ... 30 mm thick ... works best for me ... replaced the nicotine with a joint ...cut out the brandy completely ... and still had to replace the rubber mallet because i bent handle somehow.

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## ians

Question ...if your payment status shows R8000  but the actual amount in your account is less paid over by your employer ...is it because you have to pay tax ?

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## Dave A

Any benefit payment made by UIF has no deductions and does not form part of the beneficiary's taxable income.

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## ians

> Any benefit payment made by UIF has no deductions and does not form part of the beneficiary's taxable income.


I wonder why a company would reduce the amount paid to an employee compared by as much as R980 compared to what was paid to them from the TERS ...any idea? 

I know in my case ...i paid over R500 less because i gave one of my employees R500 advance to help get through until the UIF paid out... he was desperate.

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## Justloadit

There is going to be an issue with the reduced amount paid. As an employer, you have to send proof, copy of bank payment to the UIF office to show that there has been a payment made.





> Dear Employer Please find detailed pay sheet indicating amount to be paid to each employee and word document Take note to print sign and forward word document together with Pay sheet and proof of payment to mail box as stated on the word document. Regards Unemployment Insurance Commissioner.

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## GCE

Hi 

I have made the calls and sent the mails in regards to NBCEI and UIF claims with absolute silence as the result .

This morning I picked up a new gazette that is directly related and NBCEI are going to need systems in place quickly.

The way I read it, it appears that all Electrical contractors will need to claim through council and will not be allowed to claim themselves.
I see the gazette was issued 15 May , signed 30 April and is retrospective to 27 March. 

I assume that this will change things for a number of employer organizations that fall under Bargaining councils.

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Dave A (17-May-20)

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## Dave A

I see the ECA has posted an article about how the NBCEI is trying to escalate the problem of non-payment of TERS claims.

Reading the letter, it is clear it was drafted without knowledge of the regulation change of 15th May referred to by Graham above. That regulation change places the Bargaining Councils an an even more invidious position than the letter mentions.

Here's hoping there is a constructive response from the Department of Labour!

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## GCE

So there seems like there may soon be forced movement to have UIF claims submitted by NBCEI sorted out .

NBCEI went legal to force the Minister to do his job. Got news that the application through the High Court was successful and an order issued with costs which will hopefully now force the Minister to ensure his staff actually do what they are paid to do.

_Dear All

Very good news!!!! The High Court has granted our order, including costs, a couple of minutes ago.

The draft order (in accordance to our prayers in our notice of motion)  has been granted and will be made an order of court.

The issued court order will only be available in approximately one week's time.

In terms of the order, the issued order has to be served on the respondents to become operative.

Kind regards
NBCEI(SA)
_

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Dave A (24-Jun-20)

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## Dave A

The next problem is going to be to get the court order *implemented* by UIF of course. 
And then the affected companies will have to submit their claims directly.
And there will no doubt be delays in processing them.

We may still be weeks away before getting the TERS payout for the first period...

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## Dave A

:Hmmm: 

So looking at my bank accounts this morning, deposited yesterday is what appears to be the April TERS claim for my electrical company...

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## GCE

Also have an amount deposited with my UIF number as a reference 
It appears that the court order worked or that they at least started the process when they were served the summons

NBCEI were not aware that it had worked , PE side anyway - They are looking this morning to see if they can get the allocation sheet out of the system

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## ians

At least there is good news ...not much of that around at the moment.

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## Dave A

> Also have an amount deposited with my UIF number as a reference 
> It appears that the court order worked or that they at least started the process when they were served the summons
> 
> NBCEI were not aware that it had worked , PE side anyway - They are looking this morning to see if they can get the allocation sheet out of the system


Kzn office has got the distribution report out just fine for me.

So the next question is - What do we do with the May claim?

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## ians

Looks like it is gona be a quiet month again ... can we just keep claiming for UIF or when will it become short time ... the UIF is covering the wages? 

I am actually enjoying all this time off ... watching series all night ... sleeping in till 8 am everyday ... then off to the beach for oreo milkshakes  :Smile:  waist is gone from a 36 to a 40 again  :Frown: 

Kids are back to school in 2 weeks time ... we gona have to start the 5 am routine again ... not looking forward to that.

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## GCE

Talking to the guys this morning it appears that UIF are now actively engaging with NBCEI and assisting with getting May claims registered and paid out.Also assisting in sorting out people that were missed.
I had one guy that they did not pay out with the rest of my guys, but it has now been corrected and paid yesterday
It at least looks positive , lets hope it stays that way

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## Dave A

I'm a happy camper on that front too right now. 

Got the request for company registration number with CIPC on Monday morning. 
Gave it to NBCEI straight away. 
On Tuesday morning the May claim money was in the bank :thumup:

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## GCE

I am still struggling to get the balance of TERS money - So far received April only through the NBCEI system.

Anybody else still having problems

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## ians

My accountant has been submitting the documentation required ever month ... I have been paying the monthly fee (which is going to stop this month unless they start paying up) ... I have not received UIF for my staff since August 2020 (Last payment was in July 2020).

The one and only electrical contractor to receive a response and notification that he qualifies for the small bussiness relief ... has now been informed that they cannot assist him due to "NO FUNDS" available.

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## Dave A

> I am still struggling to get the balance of TERS money - So far received April only through the NBCEI system.
> 
> Anybody else still having problems


My electrical company got two months of TERS paid out. Claims were submitted for another two months (pretty small ones though as we didn't have much reduced time), but no payment received on those. I haven't pressed it as I have been pretty focused on what *does* pay the bills...

I'll drop my NBCEI agent a request in the morning to find out what the system says.

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## Dave A

So in my case the periods that remain unresolved are a claim for June 2020 and a claim for the period 1 July to 15 August 2020.

In both instances the TERS portal reports the payment status as "Application in Progress".
Absolutely no reason for the delay or failure to complete the application is provided.

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