# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  Denied petrol

## Derlyn

Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner rather than later .....

So there I was at a Caltex in Beacon Bay alone in my car wanting to top up with R400 petrol.

I was denied service unless I donned a face nappy.
I politely told the attendant what he could do with the petrol hose, drove half a kilometer further and topped up at Total, no problem.

Caltex have now joined my list of businesses to be avoided in future for treating their clients like infants.
Pick n Pay heads that list for trying to force me to push a trolley whilst buying a loaf of bread.
Coca Cola has also recently been added to the list.

Would it have been easier just to put on the nappy and get served ?   .....   Yes.
Would it have been the right thing to do ?   ....   In my opinion, no.

The sooner we ALL call out the bull@#$# for what it is, the better for us all.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## Dave A

The other side of this is it's legislated.

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adrianh (16-Mar-21), Andromeda (17-Mar-21)

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## ians

Do as the herd is trained from birth ...  leave school ... get a job ... pay insurance ... keep your opinion to yourself (there is no such thing as freedom of speech) ... get screwed by a multi trillion dollar industry (medical) ... pay monthly fees for everything from your electricity to your software package ... wear a face cloth for the most deadly virus on earth (yet I wear a double filter full face mask to spray a bit of paint) ...  just payup and shut up.

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Andromeda (17-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

> The other side of this is it's legislated.


Only if you refuse to wear a facemask when ordered to do so by an officer of the law is it a criminal offence.

The gazette has been very cleverly worded so as to make the sheeple think it's a crime not to wear one.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

Why is it so difficult to do the right thing.

The cops have to force people to wear seat belts to protect themselves - go figure!

I have a lot to say about people who don't give a flying F... about anybody else because they feel that they can do whatever the F they want - We live in societies and the purpose of these sorts of rules is to protect the society as a whole - it is no different to the ahole that pushes in the front of the Q at the offramp - people who do whatever they want should not be allowed to live in society nor benefit form living in society.

This seems to be the South African motto "I do what I want where I want and when I want and society is just a hindrance to my special existence"

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GCE (16-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## GCE

> Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner rather than later .....
> 
> So there I was at a Caltex in Beacon Bay alone in my car wanting to top up with R400 petrol.
> 
> I was denied service unless I donned a face nappy.
> I politely told the attendant what he could do with the petrol hose, drove half a kilometer further and topped up at Total, no problem.
> 
> Caltex have now joined my list of businesses to be avoided in future for treating their clients like infants.
> Pick n Pay heads that list for trying to force me to push a trolley whilst buying a loaf of bread.
> ...


I get highly irate when people think that laws are not for them but only relevant if it suits , and then want to complain about Taxi drivers , illegal contractors etc.

It is mandatory to wear a mask and for business owners to ensure that there employees are working in a safe environment as defined by the disaster management act and the OHSA .
If the petrol attendant gets Covid and it is traced back to some inconsiderate person that does not want to adhere to the regulations then the Caltex franchise owner becomes liable for the time off through the IOD process.

Likewise with the shop owner that does not ensure a safe distance when people are queuing.

Besides the fact that the business owner could end up paying a fine due to some inconsiderate person that does not want to comply.

Summary of the reg's pasted below and what I see as relevant in red 

_Offences and penalties

83. (1) For the duration of the national state of disaster, any person who hinders, interferes with. or obstructs an enforcement officer in the exercise of his or her powers, or the performance of his or her duties in terms of these Regulations, is guilty of an offence and, on conviction, liable to a fine or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.
(2) For the purposes of this Chapter, any person who fails to comply with or contravenes a provision of regulations 68(1) and (3), 70(2), (3) and (7); 80(3)(a), 81(1)(b) and 81(3) of these Regulations commits an offence and is, on conviction, liable to a fine or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.


Mandatory protocols when in a public place
70. (1) For the purposes of these Regulations. a ‘face mask’ means a cloth face mask or a homemade item that covers the nose and mouth, or another appropriate item to cover the nose and mouth.

(2) The wearing of a face mask is mandatory for every person when in a public place. excluding a child under the age of six years. and any person who fails to comply with a verbal instruction by an enforcement officer to wear a face mask, commits an offence and is, on conviction, liable to a fine or a period of imprisonment not exceeding six months, or to both such fine and imprisonment.

(3) No person will be allowed to-
(a) use, operate, perform any service on any form of public transport;
(b) enter or be in a building, place or premises. including government buildings, places or premises, used by the public to obtain goods or services; or
(c) be in any public open space, if he or she is not wearing a face mask.

(4) The prohibition in subregulation (3)(c) shall not apply to a person who undertakes vigorous exercise in a public place, provided that the person maintains a distance of at least one and a half metres from any other person.

(5) An employer may not allow any employee to perform any duties or enter the employment premises if the employee is not wearing a face mask while performing his or her duties.

(6) Every business premises, including, but not limited to, a supermarket, shop, grocery store, retail store, wholesale produce market or pharmacy shall –
(a) determine their area of floor space in square metres;
(b) based on the information contemplated in paragraph (a), determine the number of customers and employees that may be inside the premises in order to comply with the limitation as provided for in regulation 72(5)(c) of the Regulations and subject to strict adherence to all health protocols and social distancing measures;
(c) take steps to ensure that persons queuing inside or outside the premises are able to maintain a distance of one and a half metres from each other;
(d) provide hand sanitisers for use by the public and employees at the entrance to the premises; and
(e) assign, in writing, an employee or any other suitable person, as the compliance employee, who must ensure-
(i) compliance with the measures provided for in paragraphs (a) to (d); and
(ii) that all directions in respect of hygienic conditions and limitation of exposure to persons with COVID-19 are adhered to.

(7) Any business whose premises exceeds the maximum number of customers and employees determined in subregulation (6) commits an offence and is, on conviction. liable to a fine or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

(8) All employers must. adopt measures to promote physical distancing of employees, including-
(a) enabling employees to work from home or minimising the need for employees to be physically present at the workplace;
(b) the provision for adequate space;
(c) restrictions on face to face meetings;
(d) special measures for employees with known or disclosed health issues or comorbidities, or with any condition which may place such employees at a higher risk of complications or death if they are infected with COVID-19, and
(e) special measures for employees above the age of 60 who are at a higher risk of complications or death if they are infected with COVID-19.

(9) The requirements as set out in subregulation (6) applies with the necessary changes, to any other building that is not provided for by subregulation (6).

(10) All courier and delivery services shall provide for minimal personal contact during delivery.

(11) All banks as defined in the Banks Act, 1990 (Act No. 94 of 1990) and financial institutions as defined in the Financial Sector Regulation
Act, 2017 (Act No. 9 of 2017), must-
a) ensure that all automated teller machines of that bank or financial institution, if any in the case of a financial institution, that is not a bank, have hand sanitisers for use by the public at each automated teller machine; and
(b) take steps to ensure that persons queuing at the automated teller machine maintain a distance of one and a half metres from each other._

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adrianh (16-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## adrianh

> Do as the herd is trained from birth ...  leave school ... get a job ... pay insurance ... keep your opinion to yourself (there is no such thing as freedom of speech) ... get screwed by a multi trillion dollar industry (medical) ... pay monthly fees for everything from your electricity to your software package ... wear a face cloth for the most deadly virus on earth (yet I wear a double filter full face mask to spray a bit of paint) ...  just payup and shut up.


My wife has been stuck in the UK for over a year due to Covid (People die around them like flies because they care for the aged). One of our family member is an ICU nurse in the UK DEALING WITH COVID DEATH ON A DAILY BASIS - Young and old alike DIE from the disease. I lost a friend - My brother lost 2 friends - My neighbor lost a relative. 

*Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
*

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IanF (17-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## Blurock

I have also been guilty of not wanting to adhere to rules in the past. I still don't know how I made it through school with all their instructions and rules.
However in retrospect I have discovered that I should first look at the purpose of the rule, before refusing to follow like sheep. We do not live in isolation, but amongst other people, so be considerate. Rules are there to protect you too.

E.g. To stop at a stop street is a rule that should be obeyed, not only for your own safety, but also for the safety of other road users. (Please stop BEHIND the white line. I see most luxury cars don't have good brakes and they are always over the line)

Take for instance the NRCS ( National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications)  Their mandate includes promoting public health and safety, environmental protection and ensuring fair trade. This includes the development and administration of technical regulations and compulsory specifications as well as through market surveillance to ensure compliance with the requirements of the compulsory specifications and technical regulations. 

These regulations govern scales and measuring instruments to ensure that you pay for the correct weight or get the right amount of air into your tyres etc etc. There are standards and regulations for just about every product sold in this country. When it comes to medical equipment the rules are even more stringent. 

I have now learnt that I have to be more considerate towards my fellow beings and not just live on my own planet like before. This ensures peace and happiness.

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adrianh (16-Mar-21), GCE (17-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## adrianh

> I have also been guilty of not wanting to adhere to rules in the past. I still don't know how I made it through school with all their instructions and rules.
> However in retrospect I have discovered that I should first look at the purpose of the rule, before refusing to follow like sheep. We do not live in isolation, but amongst other people, so be considerate. Rules are there to protect you too.
> 
> E.g. To stop at a stop street is a rule that should be obeyed, not only for your own safety, but also for the safety of other road users. (Please stop BEHIND the white line. I see most luxury cars don't have good brakes and they are always over the line)
> 
> Take for instance the NRCS ( National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications)  Their mandate includes promoting public health and safety, environmental protection and ensuring fair trade. This includes the development and administration of technical regulations and compulsory specifications as well as through market surveillance to ensure compliance with the requirements of the compulsory specifications and technical regulations. 
> 
> These regulations govern scales and measuring instruments to ensure that you pay for the correct weight or get the right amount of air into your tyres etc etc. There are standards and regulations for just about every product sold in this country. When it comes to medical equipment the rules are even more stringent. 
> 
> I have now learnt that I have to be more considerate towards my fellow beings and not just live on my own planet like before. This ensures peace and happiness.


For sure - I also don't adhere to rules as well as I should either. (I have a bag of speeding fines to prove it) The thing is that one should endevour to adhere to sensible (inconvenient) temporary restrictions if it is for the good of society. An analogy is a detour because of roadworks - there will always be a couple of people with rocks in their heads who try to go straight through everything because they feel that nobody has the right to inconvenience them. They end up causing a massive accident and then have the audacity to blame everybody but themselves.

Look, I am no angel but hell, wearing a face mask when you are out and about is not that hard or inconvenient. Even with a mask on we are still able to drive like idiots and show each other zap signs ...its just a minor temporary inconvenience... :Cool:

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Blurock (17-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## tec0

The sad part here is, people that are trying to protect their families and those they love/care are called sheeple. 

Dude all i can say is stop and think about it. 

You are trying to outsmart a law that is asking you to protect not only yourself but others as well. Well whatever rocks your boat, just remember there are consequences, not just for you but everyone you love and come in contact with. If you get it and survive it is not to say someone you know and got it from you will. What does that make you? Think about it.

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## adrianh

The problem is that there is no pattern to "who dies" from the virus. Old people, young people, healthy people, unhealthy people - The only thing we can try and to is to limit the spread of the virus until the vaccines kick in or the markers that distinguish the victims are found.

People think we have it bad - I know airline pilots who have been tested over 100 times with swabs up their butts and noses - we have it frigging easy!

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Andromeda (17-Mar-21), IanF (17-Mar-21), tec0 (16-Mar-21)

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## tec0

> The problem is that there is no pattern to "who dies" from the virus. Old people, young people, healthy people, unhealthy people - The only thing we can try and to is to limit the spread of the virus until the vaccines kick in or the markers that distinguish the victims are found.
> 
> People think we have it bad - I know airline pilots who have been tested over 100 times with swabs up their butts and noses - we have it frigging easy!


I agree, but would add the following; 

If I get it and i know i did everything i could then my conscious can rest...

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## Andromeda

@Derlyn, Not cleverly, clearly

I have a client who went to hospital to get a bypass. No bypass but he was infected with COVID19. Now he is dead.

My business partner narrowly escaped death, from COVID19

Two directors at a client were diagnosed on Friday; they are very ill despite their health and youth.

A colleague has "Long COVID" and has been struggling for months. She is a fighter and I truly hope she will overcome.

I could go on but that would be rather pointless.

A mask is a tiny price to pay and I would cheer those who chase you away.

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adrianh (17-Mar-21), tec0 (17-Mar-21)

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## ians

> My wife has been stuck in the UK for over a year due to Covid (People die around them like flies because they care for the aged). One of our family member is an ICU nurse in the UK DEALING WITH COVID DEATH ON A DAILY BASIS - Young and old alike DIE from the disease. I lost a friend - My brother lost 2 friends - My neighbor lost a relative. 
> 
> *Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
> Albert Einstein
> *



Expected to fill out a register using a pen handed to me by a security personal ... used by a hundred other people ... allowed to pick up and put down products in a supermarket ... touch counters which are touched by dozens of other people on a daily basis ... bump each passing in isle while shopping ... told to wear a cloth mask for the most deadly virius on earth ... yet I wear a double filter face mask when I paint shyte ... and I am the stupid one ... really? 

I am exposed to people on a daily basis ... my sister has a cough high temp. so she is put in a covid isolation ward with other patients who have tested positive ... suspected of having covid ... her test results come back negative and she is released the following day ... and I am the stupid one  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Personally I find social distancing a far better solution ... I stay the fu%^& away from people as much as I can ... wash my hands frequently and wear the ridiculous mask as and when forced to do so. 

For the record I know of people who havent washed that germ infested piece of cloth for a month ... and some since the lockdown ... eeeeish.  

For the record I have lost family and friends ... 2 of them a day apart ... both my sisters are working in the UK ... my neighbour has lost 10 family members ... I have friends who have lost both parents and siblings in December ... I had 14 people in one company test positive where I worked in December ... they also lost family members ... they were all wearing masks and wshing hands. 

Its about being responsible ... I dont believe the mask is the be all and end all of this pandemic ... in fact I believe it could even give people a false sense of security ... resuting in people standing too close each other. and just generally not abiding by the rules. 

I have to pass on the stupid aware to a person I had to deal with a couple weeks ago ... he picked on my staff member for not wear his mask correcty (just below his nose) Had a go at me because of it ... and all this while he wasnt even wearing a mask ... the only reason I didnt tell him to F^&* off ... was because the work I was doing was for a good customer and couldnt risk loosing the customer.

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## ians

By the way some garages do offer to spray your hands after you have exchanged petrol cards/card machine/cash/keys/slips etc with a person who has been exchanging item all day ... so long as you are wearing a mask you are all good  :Slap:  ... I would be more worried about washing my hands 

I go into the wholesaler ... I hand the card to the slaesman ... he hands me the card machine to type in my code ... the puller gets my goods ... hands all the stuff to the checker who checks everything ever single person collects from the despatch ... before hand it over the the counter ... I then hand the slip to the security at the door who then touches everything again as he counts it ... then hands me the goods and my receipt ... during this time  I have wiped my forehead and eyes more than 6 times during this process because I am sweating (its been f%^&* hot lately) ... but hey I am wearing a mask.

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## adrianh

Deflecting a basic argument by using the "What about them" strategy doesn't work on people who understand the rules of debate.

Why did you stop me officer - I only skipped a robot - Officer, you should go do real work like chasing Taxi's that drive on the wrong side of the road.....You see....it is always "those others" ...it's never us....
(The argument strategy doesn't stand up to scrutiny)

The debate is about whether one is obliged to wear a mask in public - Andromeda spelled it out!

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## Justloadit

I would like to add my 10c here.

Something we tend to forget, Ians, you work with certain materials which are highly poisonous to a virus/bacteria, and are not even aware of it, which in the background actually protects you.

Do you know that copper, lead, galvanized pipes and machine oil is poisonous to a virus. So unintentionally you are regularly sanitizing your hands against the virus while you work. So those dirty hands from the work you doing, virus wise are actually clean.

I have been thinking about this for a while. Most days, I am handling copper boards, wire, lead solder and other chemicals such as oils, benzine, PCB cleaner, and other cleaning materials. Do you think that the virus is going to survive in my environment, I think not, but what worries me, is when I have to go to a shop/Office/Business which does not deal in this type of materials that we regularly deal with, in there lies the danger of a lurking virus that may have attached to a surface. There is nothing to kill the virus but sanitizing regularly.

Hope this has given a little peace of mind.

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tec0 (17-Mar-21)

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## adrianh

There are more things about the "chemicals" issue that really worries me.

1. Every man and his dog is forcing chemicals on the public without consideration of the actual chemicals or their ingredients.
2. The public is exposed to very high concentrations of chemicals, especially Isopropyl Alcohol. 
3. I read that kids get vast quantities of Alcohol in their eyes due to the whole sanitizer craze.

I am personally very sensitive to exposure to Isopropyl Alcohol and other chemicals. I can't use Tamiya paint (which claims to be acrylic but is predominantly Alcohol based) , Superglue or even solder without a respirator because I get a massive headache within minutes of exposure. I've had 4 sinus operations and my mucus membranes are shot. I find that when I go to the shopping centres I develop a "chemical" headache very quickly. I've spent a lifetime having different headaches so I am kinda able to deduce the cause from the specifics of the pain.

Exposure to certain metals like Copper is good but of course exposure to things like Lead and Mercury not so much. 

I wonder why UVC isn't used much more as a sanitizer - The frequency of the light is said to break the DNA of bacteria and ozone is a good disinfectant (not so much for direct human contact but still)

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## ians

> Deflecting a basic argument by using the "What about them" strategy doesn't work on people who understand the rules of debate.
> 
> Why did you stop me officer - I only skipped a robot - Officer, you should go do real work like chasing Taxi's that drive on the wrong side of the road.....You see....it is always "those others" ...it's never us....
> (The argument strategy doesn't stand up to scrutiny)
> 
> The debate is about whether one is obliged to wear a mask in public - Andromeda spelled it out!



I just enjoy the rant ... and really just here for the responses  :Wink:  

I have been hectic busy at work ... its a good distraction adding my 10 million 5 thousands six hundred cents worth.

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## adrianh

Ag you know we all get wound up over $h!t

At the end of the day we all want everybody to have their place in the sun :-)

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## Derlyn

Good evening, my brothers.

Thank you for responding. The compliments are appreciated.
This is going to be a long post so if you don't have time on your hands, log off now.

I was hoping for a different response, but it seems as if the MSM and politicians have succeeded in what they are being paid to do. ( Oil the TIPKAF machine )

The first time I donned a mask, I felt uncomfortable, sort of claustrophobic ( a morbid fear of confined spaces )
I couldn't even remember what I was supposed to buy in the supermarket.

Think back to the first time you put on a face mask. If you did not have the same sort of feeling, the chances are good that you are either a dentist or a surgeon and it's nothing abnormal for you. For me, an electrician, it was abnormal and it affected my ability to breathe and think rationally. 

Right then and there, I thought that this cannot be normal for me.

Other than just accepting that this is what I must do, or have some have said " comply with" I took the time and made an effort to find out whether this mask wearing is really necessary. I decided to use references and advice from those who do not have skin in the game. ie those who do not benefit financially from pushing the agenda.

What I discovered is astounding.

All those who have skin in the game say mask wearing is essential. The WHO first said that mask wearing was not necessary, but then they changed their mind.
I wonder what made them change their mind ?  Money ?  Maybe ?

Those who do not benefit financially from the TIPKAF agenda, say that wearing a mask to either prevent or transmit virus infections is much like putting up a chicken wire fence to keep out the mosquitos.

The people I am referring to are: Prof Sucharit Bhakdi, Dr Mike Yeadon, Dr Amesh Adalja, Dr Judy Mikovits, Dr Reiner Fuellmich, Prof John Nicholls, Dr Jonathin Witt, Dr Clair Craig and Doctor Rodger Hutchinson.

There are many more but like someone else responded in this thread " I could go on, but that would be pointless"

Most of the interviews with the above academics have been removed from you tube because they do not follow the guidelines of adhering to the agenda, however, thanks to  Jeremy Nell who has an offshore server, they have been preserved.

you can check it out here.   https://jermwarfare.com/blog/clare-craig

Let me respond to some of my brothers.

@ adrianh  ..  I'm sorry you feel that I should not benefit from living in society. I do not push in the front of the Q at an off ramp and am not one that doesn't give a flying F.
                     I do, however, stick to the speed limit as I really believe that speedsters ( as you have admitted to being ) pose a bigger danger to society than those who don't 
                     wear face masks while filling up. Peace, my brother.

@ GCE    ..    The Pick n Pay owner that confronted me for not pushing a trolley, was not pushing one himself, neither was the security guard. Maybe they are immune. Who 
                    knows ? Like I said, I'm an adult. Treat me like a child and my money gets spent elsewhere.

@ tec0 ..  Howzit Dude? I have stopped and thought about it as per your request.  All I can say is do some research like I have.  Peace, my brother.l

@ andromeda ... You say I am not clever, clearly. One doesn't have to be clever to do some reseach, brother. I'm neither Einstein nor a rocket scientist.

@ adrianh    ....   Thank you brother. We all want everyone to have a place in the sun    ....   without having to cover our
 faces.   :Big Grin: 

I'm not as bad as some brothers have made me out to be.

Peace out ...   Derek

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## tec0

> @ tec0 ..  Howzit Dude? I have stopped and thought about it as per your request.  All I can say is do some research like I have.  Peace, my brother.


hi Derlyn, 

i understand your concern and yes some people really cannot work with masks. However, as a safety officer "not any more" i can tell you people had a problem with masks long before this virus. That said, my own medical conditions isn't great. It is to a degree so bad i can no longer get a red-ticket. I am no longer allowed to work on mines, power-stations and the like. A major factor that contributed to this are my lungs. They where defective from birth and despite my best efforts "exercising that i still do to this day" and yes this include breathing exercises I accepted that it may not get better. As for people benefiting from PPE and the sale/supply of it, this is true people are making money from this, as sad as it is. PPE prices has more then doubled in some cases depending on supplier. 

Then there is the question of chemicals that we are exposed to now. This is not just soap and water, this is alcohol based products. I personally use gloves and just wipe them clean with whatever spray they provide. As for my mask, i invested in a reusable one and keep it clean and use it each day. Do i like it? No. But i got use to it.

So why would i use a mask? I literally have a medical condition? I personally have lost many people to this thing. It is not easy to type this and I would rather not think about it. But there is no conspiracy here. It is fact that people are benefiting financially from this pandemic. It is fact that the mask can only provide so much protection and not much more. It is fact that some places of business do not keep to the rules. However, as an individual i must hold myself accountable at all times. Now I can continue on but all in, i will simply just say this. If you are around other people, be careful. If you handle stuff at the store, be careful what you do when you bring it home. Take the steps needed to protect yourself and those you love. 

I don't believe you are a bad person. But what kind of friend, brother, person would i be if i don't do my very best to try and protect others? Why would i want to see you get hurt? or worse? 

As for research the coffins and the many whom we all have lost and we have lost many, is evident enough. This thing is real and it is changing, it is deadly. That is enough for me, i trust my own eyes, i trust my own conclusions. 

So as a friend i will encourage you to be as safe as you can be. 

Please take care, and remember every life counts.  :Smile:

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## ians

> Ag you know we all get wound up over $h!t
> 
> At the end of the day we all want everybody to have their place in the sun :-)



If there is one thing I have learnt about social media ... people have no interest in good solid facts ... its the bullshyte that keeps the posts alive. 

I use to spend hours writting informative value added articles ... which got 10 maybe 15 views ... I would put my troll hat on and rock the boat ... on some platforms they would get 1000 views within a couple of hours.

Everyone has their opinion ... thats the beuty about life ... just imagine how  boring life would be if everyone aimlessly followed the herd.

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## Dave A

Eish!

A few things to ponder...

Transmission via air is the most contagious route of transmission. 
Touching infected surfaces is a distant second by comparison and there are a number of control points at which you can interrupt the path to it actually infecting you.

If you want to know one of the primary ways a mask helps, try blowing a feather while wearing one. Or blow some dust off a shelf...

The chicken mesh vs mosquito thing? More like the virus is carried in tiny droplets flying through a maze of fibre that will snag them at the slightest touch. And having a massive drop in velocity for the ones that make it to the other side of the "fence".  Even if efficacy were only a 50% reduction in transmissibility (and I am told it is significantly higher than that), the compound effect of that 50% reduction is massive.

By all means feel free to question my logic as hard as the stuff in Derlyn's post above. May you reach the right conclusion.

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tec0 (18-Mar-21)

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## tec0

> Eish!
> 
> A few things to ponder...
> 
> Transmission via air is the most contagious route of transmission. 
> Touching infected surfaces is a distant second by comparison and there are a number of control points at which you can interrupt the path to it actually infecting you.
> 
> If you want to know one of the primary ways a mask helps, try blowing a feather while wearing one. Or blow some dust off a shelf...
> 
> ...


i 100% agree. 

A good mask can provide good protection. But how many people do the candle test? Simply lid a candle and put your mask on, see if you can blow hard enough to extinguish the flame. If the flame goes out your mask may not provide enough protection. That is why i said: "*It is fact that the mask can only provide so much protection and not much more.*" Truth is some masks do not provide proper protection but "some protection" is still better then "no protection" That said, it is up to you as a person to do the test, find something that works and keep it clean. A dirty mask can also be a problem. Not fitting the mask properly is also a problem and how many people do you see with their noses not being properly covered? 

So yes a mask is better then no mask. But a good mask is really an investment.

___edit___

That said, a mask alone will not give you full protection. keeping yourself clean is just as important. Remember it can get trapped on your clothing so it is really important to spray your clothing from time to time. there are products available see what works for you.

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## Mike C

As I understand it the mask is not so much to offer the wearer protection from breathing the virus IN as it is to offer protection to others.  If the wearer has covid, or is a carrier, then the mask is supposed to cut back on the droplets flying out of the mouth and nose into the surrounding area.

If that is true, then the fact that you have to walk past so many people not wearing masks (or wearing them incorrectly) still puts you at risk.

----------


## Derlyn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zerdjuikIxA

Still many years of mask wearing ahead.

Peace out   ...   Derek.

----------


## adrianh

I scan read the latest comments - too much valueless going around in circles for me to bother with it.

You wear a mask - don't wear a mask - I don't care - My family and I will continue to do so.

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tec0 (18-Mar-21)

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## Blurock

I hope this will explain it all.

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adrianh (19-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

In my 62 years nobody has peed on me yet. Maybe I've just been lucky. Gonna try my luck for another 20 years or so.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## adrianh

My dad was an orthopedic surgeon and my mom was a radiographer so I kinda grew up around medicine/ hospitals.

...we all expect the dentist to use clean tools, wear gloves and wear a mask - TO PROTECT US
...further...
...we expect the operating theater to be super clean and all the staff to wear PPE - TO PROTECT THE PATIENT

...BUT...
...WE DON'T GIVE A TOSS ABOUT ANYBODY ELSE BECAUSE WE ARE SPECIAL - we claim the right to do whatever the F we want, yet we do not take responsibility for the consequences of our own actions and then we have the audacity to bitch and moan about the government trying to institute common sense temporary rules to protect us from our own stupidity - When it all goes wrong we revel in the "knowledge" that we knew it was going to fail because "those other people" didn't do what they were supposed to....Go figure! 

This nonsense reminds me of stonings (you know - when people get to throw rocks at a victim) - The person dies but nobody takes responsibility - everybody make themselves believe that they had no part in the death because it was "those other people's" rocks that killed him...

eish...

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tec0 (19-Mar-21)

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## tec0

> In my 62 years nobody has peed on me yet. Maybe I've just been lucky. Gonna try my luck for another 20 years or so.
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek


Rocking out to a bit or Metallica, song is called nothing else matters. Highly recommend it. 

See normally i would get a bit snarky and try to make you see that wearing a mask really does save lives. But at this point i realized despite the sadness that many has expressed here you will continue on. Well best of luck to you. I really do hope you stay healthy,

so yea peace out...

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## ians

I went to the beach today ... I have'nt been there in months because ... in my view ... it is a crowded venue ... but hey my daughter loves going for an early morning (before the crowds)  walk along the promenade ... all I am gona say is eeeeeish.  I had my mask on when I arrived ... because it is the law ... by the time I got to the promenade I realised I was one of the very few people wearing one. 

Took my mask off ... walked onto the beach and stayed clear of everyone ... went to the Wimpy for breakfast ... at least the waiters were wearing pants ... so we didnt have to worry about getting peed on even though we were naked  :Wink:

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## Blurock

> In my 62 years nobody has peed on me yet. Maybe I've just been lucky. Gonna try my luck for another 20 years or so.
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek


Maybe not, but I bet that you have had other people's spit on your face & body as some people just cannot speak without spreading it.
Or is their no spread when people cough near you? Do you run for cover or just take it in your stride and wipe the saliva afterwards?

----------


## ians

> Maybe not, but I bet that you have had other people's spit on your face & body as some people just cannot speak without spreading it.
> Or is their no spread when people cough near you? Do you run for cover or just take it in your stride and wipe the saliva afterwards?


DO you know why they spit in your face when they dont say it but spray it ... The person is dehydrated.

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## Derlyn

> Maybe not, but I bet that you have had other people's spit on your face & body as some people just cannot speak without spreading it.
> Or is their no spread when people cough near you? Do you run for cover or just take it in your stride and wipe the saliva afterwards?


Nothing has changed for me. The only change that I have observed since TIPKAF's arrival is how people around me have become paranoid and psychotic, except for the inhabitants of Nompomelelo which is a large informal settlement in Beacon Bay. There, life carries on normally .... no mask wearing  ...  no social distancing and people are not dropping like flies, like someone else mentioned. No paranoia there, just normal life. My assistant, Xolani, who lives there doesn't know of anyone who has died of anything else but plain old age or maybe a car accident but nothing out of the ordinary.  

I wonder what it feels like to be paranoid. Am I missing something?

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## ians

I am in pretty much the same situation ... my assistant goes to the farm every weekend ... by monday morning he smells like has spent the weekend in a bottle store ... they party the whole weekend ... he enjoys social gatthering with family and friends ( which is why I have become paranoid of him) he is forced to wear a mask if within 1.5 of me ... regardless of our location.

I go to the beachfront and see how people take the fact that you have to wear a mask with a pinch of salt ... I know it is outside and all that ... but looking at the shear volume of people more than a stadium would hold ... if there was a risk ... people would be getting sick.

So here is what I have noticed ... in the begining ...around march last year there was this massive scare ... a few friends and family got sick ... weathered the storm ... some were sick for 10 days and recovered and others as long as 20 days ... the odd person died ... by like on any given day ... people are dying ... its not like people stopped dying because of covid ... it seems everyone was registered as a victim of covid

then there was a a lull ... you heard of people getitng sick and stats were displayed ... but it almost seemed like the stats were there just to keep the ball rolling ... it even got to a point that the radio station was advertsing thousands of empty beds avaialble if you felt the need to isolate ... then it actually hit us.

in December 2020 ... thats when it affected our family and friends directly ... people around us were dying literally by the day ... hospitals (private) were overwhelmed with patients ... there was this massive panic about over crowded hospitals ... people were told to use the governement facilities which were made available specifically for covid. 

During this period there was a massive panic because of the reality of the virus ... it was affecting people around us ... everyone was doing the right thing wearing masks keeping their distance and all the other stuff.

But as the infection rate and deaths around us have eased ... so we have become relaxed about the whole thing ... less people are wearing masks and and generally going back to normal.

Traffic is back to normal ... schools are open 100 % ... kids made to stand out on the road in the morning ... in the pouring rain on some days (absolutley ridiculous) ... screens installed on counters ... yet everyone drops the mask to the chin and  goes to the side to talk to the saleman/women ... people using the mask as a sweat collector arond the chin ... it doesnt even cover the nose or mouth ... shopping goes on as normal ...everyone touch everything ... picking up and putting down ... everyone leans against the counters ... touching card machines even tap and go ... pins are required.

there is talk of a third wave ... if it happens ... we will once again be caught with our pants around our ankles and by the time we catch on ... it will be too late ... by the time everyone gets back into routine it would have spread like fire. 

Its your right by law to make everyone wear a mask ... which is what I do when I have to ... but if I go into a building to visit or work ... i check if people are wearing masks ... if they are ... I do wear my mask ... but if they are not wearing a mask ... I decide if I am going to stay or leave and request permission to remove my mask ... it sounds  a bit ridiculous ...  asking permission if they are not wearing a mask ... but if I enter their building ... their rules apply.

DO i wear a mask while filling up with petrol ... no ... my vehicle is higher than most ... the window is opened slightly to inform them of how much and then the card machine is passed through the small gap ... I use my own sanitizer to wash my hands once the transaction is complete and the slip is in the ash tray ...where they stay for a couple weeks ... my card is put back in my germ infected leather wallet ... which has cash ... driver license which is handed to to certain security personal to scan for entry to properties or collection from certain properties ... cards which exchange hands on average of at least 10 times a day ( I dont have accounts ... I pay for everthing on collection)

Once again it boils down to common sense ... something which unfortuntely only applies to a small minority ... so laws are passed and enforced. 

I have modified my mask to make it very comfortable ... so if I am forced to wear it ... its is no big deal.

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## Mike C

> my card is put back in my germ infected leather wallet ... which has cash


I am actually quite surprised that so little has been said about the potential of tranference of the virus via the cash registers.

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tec0 (21-Mar-21)

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## tec0

> Nothing has changed for me. The only change that I have observed since TIPKAF's arrival is how people around me have become paranoid and psychotic, except for the inhabitants of Nompomelelo which is a large informal settlement in Beacon Bay. There, life carries on normally .... no mask wearing  ...  no social distancing and people are not dropping like flies, like someone else mentioned. No paranoia there, just normal life. My assistant, Xolani, who lives there doesn't know of anyone who has died of anything else but plain old age or maybe a car accident but nothing out of the ordinary.  
> 
> I wonder what it feels like to be paranoid. Am I missing something?
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek


I get it, nothing we say here will make you think twice. However... In the end, this virus doesn't need your permission to exist. It will do exactly what has been doing and regardless or your methodology/comprehension/justification/argument/whatever else, it will continue to do what it does until it is stopped. Now Coronavirus Death Toll i believe is real. A few of those numbers are friends of mine and are family of mine, people i cared about. So you do you, and i really do hope you remain healthy. i really do... But as for me, i will try to stay out of this things way. i will use my mask, i will use my gloves, i will use the disinfectant and i will try to keep my travel to a minimum. My health is already compromised enough as it is.  

Just think carefully now... see according to you we are "just paranoid" so are you saying that the people we lost doesn't exist? At this point in time i would say consider carefully because many have lost, many are sad and many may not react as calmly. Just remember there is another very sad side to this coin.

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Blurock (21-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

Some interesting facts. That is if you are interested, of course. Nobody is forcing you.

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/this-pandemic-is-fake

Peace out   ...   Derek.

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## adrianh

Oh well....who knows - I don't care one way or another - All I want is for people to be sensible and not to get to extremes - on either side.

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tec0 (22-Mar-21)

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## tec0

> Some interesting facts. That is if you are interested, of course. Nobody is forcing you.
> 
> https://jermwarfare.com/blog/this-pandemic-is-fake
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek.


In the end, you can do a search and will find something that will point to the one side of the coin or the other. Why not do a search then for the other side of the coin? Or better yet ask your local doctor? See In the end if your drive is just to be right about something and outright dismiss the argument then there is no debate. There is only "you are right and the rest of us are wrong". But in saying that, you are also saying that those we lost, past away due to what exactly? What then caused their sudden departure? And it is at this point I would say, before you outright dismiss the other side of the coin, _i simply ask; what claimed their lives?_ 

See it is at this point, critical thinking is so very important and should not be dismissed or ignored. 

*This is the last post i will do on this matter.* The rest is up to you, and in all honesty i rather take precautionary measures then take chances. 

All this said, it is your life you do you. But i must leave you with this. 

*Your choices effect those around you, so make very sure of your actions because it is not just about you.* *Every person you come in contact with, in turn comes in contact with your "choices".* And it is my hope you realize what that means for you and for whomever was in contact with you.

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## Derlyn

> In the end, you can do a search and will find something that will point to the one side of the coin or the other. Why not do a search then for the other side of the coin? Or better yet ask your local doctor? See In the end if your drive is just to be right about something and outright dismiss the argument then there is no debate. There is only "you are right and the rest of us are wrong". But in saying that, you are also saying that those we lost, past away due to what exactly? What then caused their sudden departure? And it is at this point I would say, before you outright dismiss the other side of the coin, _i simply ask; what claimed their lives?_ 
> 
> See it is at this point, critical thinking is so very important and should not be dismissed or ignored. 
> 
> *This is the last post i will do on this matter.* The rest is up to you, and in all honesty i rather take precautionary measures then take chances. 
> 
> All this said, it is your life you do you. But i must leave you with this. 
> 
> *Your choices effect those around you, so make very sure of your actions because it is not just about you.* *Every person you come in contact with, in turn comes in contact with your "choices".* And it is my hope you realize what that means for you and for whomever was in contact with you.


Hello Brother

It really is not necessary to do a search on your side of the coin. It is pushed down everyones throats 24/7 by the MSM. The last time I listened to SAFM was the first day that they started calling themselves " your official covid 19 radio station". Yep, can you believe it, calling yourself the official covid 19 station. That's MSM for you. Brainwashing reigns supreme.

My doctor and I are buddies. We are on first name terms. We enjoy the same hobby ( home distilling ). Fortunately, he is one of the few doctors that has not taken everything he has learn't in the past and flushed it down the toilet during 2020. He is what I would call levelheaded. He extended the life of my mother in law by about 10 years when all the other doctors predicted that she didn't have long to live. All he did was suggested that she change her diet. It worked. She lived another 11 years.

He agrees with my outlook. We have had hours and hours of discussions not only about distilling but also about tipkaf. Because of the profession he's in and because he has a family to feed, he has succumbed to pressure from above and has to comply with the tipkaf protocols whilst at the office. After hours, he's normal.

It's extremely unfair asking me what your loved one's succumbed to. I don't know. Sorry for your loss. Really, believe it or not, I am.
All I can say is that if I were you and they were diagnosed with covid 19, I would seriously question how they were diagnosed, because it has been scientifically shown that the present method of testing is useless. I also urge you to think critically about this.

Elon Musk had 4 tests done in one day. 2 came back positive, the other 2 negative. He showed no flu like symptoms at the time. Doesn't that make you curious and want to know whether these tests are to be trusted or not ?  Another question I asked my doctor was  ....  If the virus is in your saliva, why is it neccessary to shove that thing so far down your nose ? Why can't you just give a sample of your saliva ? He had no answer other than that is the prescribed protocol. My brother, I do think critically, but there are too many things that do not add up.

Check out ...  https://cormandrostenreview.com/fals...-consequences/


I have also lost a couple of friends recently. 2 died of heart attacks, the third of cancer. Being in our age category, I consider that as being quite normal. Unfortunately, I do not know of anyone close to me that has died suddenly due to a mysterious disease.

Lastly, the corona virus ( Flu) has been around for years and years.  My question is   .....    Were you wearing a mask and gloves in 2019 and the previous years to protect yourself from getting corona or from transmitting it to others ? If yes .... great .... carry on.

If not  ...... why now ?

Think critically, my brother.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

No arguing with the "experts" I mean hell - why would anybody study Virology with such clever people as this around... I mean hell Elon Musk is the STANDARD....

Yeah, f...it, lets get rid of all the doctors and nurses and hospitals and sh!t like that - We have an "expert" here that can diagnose and treat everything - Reminds me of Mantu!

...eish...

You wanna think critically - GO GET AN EDUCATION AND GO WORK IN A HOSPITAL!

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tec0 (22-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

Nah. Mantu wasn't a critical thinker.

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## Derlyn

Ian, forget about Netflix, brother. There's good entertainment right here ! The debate is warming up. 😆😆

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## adrianh

> Nah. Mantu wasn't a critical thinker.


You need to look up the following bit of psychology....it explains a lot about "experts" who know everything without any form of education!

*The Dunning Kruger Effect*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

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## tec0

> Ian, forget about Netflix, brother. There's good entertainment right here ! The debate is warming up. 😆😆


It is late my work is done and it is time for me to go to bed.

*I wasn't planning to come back but it is now obvious to me that a few things need to be said.* 

Firstly, It is clear your aim right now is not to debate but to what exactly?  

I highly suggest, instead of making fun of us, go to your doctor that apparently does " home distilling " and let him explain to you what this virus does differently. Why it is that he needs to keep his practice clean and instruments sterilized.

After all, if you ever did do " home distilling " you should know the value of a clean bottle. Especially if you reuse beer bottles. 

That said, *This virus is real*, *this virus is deadly*. *Taking precautionary steps is absolutely necessary.*

So at this point i would say, you do you. But every action has consequences  :Detective: 

So again please take care, please think carefully.

And now i am really done with this "Thread"

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## Derlyn

This is a long read. Well worth it though.

https://rationalground.com/covid-is-...on-with-covid/

Please take the time to read the above before accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist or of needing an education.

I don't think one needs more than a standard 8 to understand what has happened this last year.

Happy reading.


Peace out   ...   Derek

I forgot   .....   think critically, something that I have been accused of not being able to do.  :Smile:  :Smile:

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## adrianh

> This is a long read. Well worth it though.
> 
> https://rationalground.com/covid-is-...on-with-covid/
> 
> Please take the time to read the above before accusing me of being a conspiracy theorist or of needing an education.
> 
> I don't think one needs more than a standard 8 to understand what has happened this last year.
> 
> Happy reading.
> ...


So the author "Karl Dierenbach" is an _engineer-turned-attorney_

https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-dierenbach-b2378015

Yeah....he sure is an "expert" 

I'll give it a miss....

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## Derlyn

> So the author "Karl Dierenbach" is an _engineer-turned-attorney_
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-dierenbach-b2378015
> 
> Yeah....he sure is an "expert" 
> 
> I'll give it a miss....


That's the thing now.  You don't need to be an expert.  All you need is grade 10. 

Peace out, brother.

Derek

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## tec0

> That's the thing now.  You don't need to be an expert.  All you need is grade 10. 
> 
> Peace out, brother.
> 
> Derek


I should be working but my anger forced my to say the following on this thread. "i have rewritten this a few times"

To anyone reading this, please use a mask, please use it correctly and please use the sanitizer and take precautionary steps.

*This virus is real... This virus is deadly... *  Please understand that the pandemic is real...

As for you, i realize the only way you will face reality is when reality comes knocking. I really hope you do stay healthy, and that you NEVER have to deal with this thing. I really do. 

But all this said, you are stepping on the pain, sadness and despair of many... Be careful when you do this because i find myself turning my sadness into anger and you are disrupting my calmness. I should be working i have a deadline. Now i am trying to explain to a 62 year old why a mask is important ? You are a grown man, act like one. If not for the sake of yourself then for the sake of others.  

And no, grade 10 is not all the education you need. *Education IS important...*

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## Derlyn

> I should be working but my anger forced my to say the following on this thread. "i have rewritten this a few times"
> 
> To anyone reading this, please use a mask, please use it correctly and please use the sanitizer and take precautionary steps.
> 
> *This virus is real... This virus is deadly... *  Please understand that the pandemic is real...
> 
> As for you, i realize the only way you will face reality is when reality comes knocking. I really hope you do stay healthy, and that you NEVER have to deal with this thing. I really do. 
> 
> But all this said, you are stepping on the pain, sadness and despair of many... Be careful when you do this because i find myself turning my sadness into anger and you are disrupting my calmness. I should be working i have a deadline. Now i am trying to explain to a 62 year old why a mask is important ? You are a grown man, act like one. If not for the sake of yourself then for the sake of others.  
> ...


I note your disclaimer  " everything written by you can be considered as fictional "

Point taken.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

> That's the thing now.  You don't need to be an expert.  All you need is grade 10. 
> 
> Peace out, brother.
> 
> Derek


That is why we now live in a world of cancel culture, mediocre, woke, pc, snowflakes demanding participation medals for their mere existence. No more education, no more excellence, no more hard work...just Dunning Kruger know-it-alls...

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tec0 (26-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

> That is why we now live in a world of cancel culture, mediocre, woke, pc, snowflakes demanding participation medals for their mere existence. No more education, no more excellence, no more hard work...just Dunning Kruger know-it-alls...


Yep, you right, brother.

Glad I'm part of the old school.
At least then matric meant something. ( no 30 percenters in them days )

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## tec0

> Yep, you right, brother.
> 
> Glad I'm part of the old school.
> At least then matric meant something. ( no 30 percenters in them days )
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek


I am not going to explain why i have the disclaimer i have. For those that know me it is obvious for others not so much. 

Now, i have seen a man wither away to bone due to cancer and i have seen a very elderly man still strong. So life is very conditional when it comes to personal health. Some things can be corrected others not so much. Thus life is fragile and despite most movies stating otherwise, life should be treasured. 

In the end your life is in your hands, now you can copy and paste every link on Google, you can get every video on YouTube you can discredit whomever you wish. The facts will stand as they will stand the test of time. Hindsight is "2020", I just hope people will take this pandemic seriously and do what is right for both themselves and for those around them.

----------


## adrianh

> Yep, you right, brother.
> 
> Glad I'm part of the old school.
> At least then matric meant something. ( no 30 percenters in them days )
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek


Very true. My daughters are now 20 and 22. They were forced to learn frigging pre-94 politics in Geography...the standards came right down laced with politics on every front. ...and of course history got wiped and then rewritten as well. My eldest daughter is now doing her 4th year in Psychology and my youngest is doing her 3rd year in Equestrian Studies. I think that they would have been dead in the water if their only education was public schooling - thank f...k we taught them to be curious and self educate.

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tec0 (27-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

> So the author "Karl Dierenbach" is an _engineer-turned-attorney_
> 
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/karl-dierenbach-b2378015
> 
> Yeah....he sure is an "expert" 
> 
> I'll give it a miss....


The author is not an expert in the medical field, never claimed to be. Neither am I.

His article is all about NUMBERS, something that engineers and attorneys are usually quite good at.

Anyway, you know the story about the horse and the water.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## adrianh

The horse and the water......

Its more like the blind Sherpa leading the horse to the edge of the erupting volcano!

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tec0 (28-Mar-21)

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## Blurock

Have you noticed that nobody gets the flu or cartches a cold anymore? Is it because of social distancing and wearing masks to stop the spread when sneezing?

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## Derlyn

> Have you noticed that nobody gets the flu or cartches a cold anymore? Is it because of social distancing and wearing masks to stop the spread when sneezing?


In my humble opinion, no. 

If a mask can prevent the flu virus from spreading, why then does it not prevent tipkaf from spreading ?

Peace out   ...   Derek.

----------


## adrianh

> In my humble opinion, no. 
> 
> If a mask can prevent the flu virus from spreading, why then does it not prevent tipkaf from spreading ?
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek.


What the F... is tipkaf?

You keep referring to this word?

I have never ever heard anybody use this word nor seen it used anywhere?

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tec0 (28-Mar-21)

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## Derlyn

> What the F... is tipkaf?
> 
> You keep referring to this word?
> 
> I have never ever heard anybody use this word nor seen it used anywhere?


The illness previously known as flu.     tipkaf.

Like Blurock said. You never hear or see anyone having flu anymore.


It's now called something else.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## adrianh

*You say this in one post:*

"If a mask can prevent the flu virus from spreading, why then does it not prevent tipkaf from spreading ?"

*Then you say this in another:*

"The illness previously known as flu. tipkaf."

....ja well no fine...

----------


## tec0

A while back we had a situation where a customer just wanted to be right regardless of facts, or the fact he owed us a large amount of money. He dreamed up every situation so that he doesn't have to pay. However normally we ask a deposit and it covered 90% of the cost. So the amount lost in this situation was still harsh BUT we could handle it. 

A few days later he came back and wanted more work done. Now we just stated that they are still owing and no work will be done. He then said he will take it some place else. Well good luck with that... A few days later my competition phoned me ask me about this customer. The order was really large AND they don't charge a deposit and that is dangerous. So i told them that this customer still owed us money. He then stopped the work and phoned the customer and told them to come and pay a deposit of 50% first. Now this time around he didn't want to pay the deposit and used all kinds of excuses, most of it "made up" and that is the point to this story. 

See the moment they call something by another name, somehow magically it doesn't "work that way anymore" it doesn't play by the rules. Giving it some other strange name justify their actions and so on and so forth. In the end this customer had to come back to us, paid us in full because every call i got from my competitors i just told them the customer did owe us money. So regardless of his name calling and attitude and all that, he had to come back and do the right thing. 

*This virus is deadly it claimed a lot of lives and precautionary steps is a must to keep everyone safe.* The sad part here is, we have to tell a 62 year old why a mask is important. Why being in public without one is dangerous and basically against the law. i mean really? i still can't believe it.    

This pandemic is going to stay with us for a long time. Its not going away unless people start working towards that goal. One would think that advancements in communication and social media should aid us in this time. It really should be humanity against this pandemic and yet we still somehow ended up fighting amongst ourselves rather then taking on this pandemic. 

I am sure everyone saw the YouTube videos of grownups behaving like children in places of business. Well at this point it is clear, you can call this pandemic anything else, get clever names for it that no one understands just to feel superior BUT like the customer i had in the above situation, eventually they had to come back pay us the money. Why? Because regardless of their justification the facts stood firm and they couldn't change it. They knew they where in the wrong.

*In the end of the day this pandemic is real. It is dangerous, it is deadly.  *

----------


## Derlyn

> A while back we had a situation where a customer just wanted to be right regardless of facts, or the fact he owed us a large amount of money. He dreamed up every situation so that he doesn't have to pay. However normally we ask a deposit and it covered 90% of the cost. So the amount lost in this situation was still harsh BUT we could handle it. 
> 
> A few days later he came back and wanted more work done. Now we just stated that they are still owing and no work will be done. He then said he will take it some place else. Well good luck with that... A few days later my competition phoned me ask me about this customer. The order was really large AND they don't charge a deposit and that is dangerous. So i told them that this customer still owed us money. He then stopped the work and phoned the customer and told them to come and pay a deposit of 50% first. Now this time around he didn't want to pay the deposit and used all kinds of excuses, most of it "made up" and that is the point to this story. 
> 
> See the moment they call something by another name, somehow magically it doesn't "work that way anymore" it doesn't play by the rules. Giving it some other strange name justify their actions and so on and so forth. In the end this customer had to come back to us, paid us in full because every call i got from my competitors i just told them the customer did owe us money. So regardless of his name calling and attitude and all that, he had to come back and do the right thing. 
> 
> *This virus is deadly it claimed a lot of lives and precautionary steps is a must to keep everyone safe.* The sad part here is, we have to tell a 62 year old why a mask is important. Why being in public without one is dangerous and basically against the law. i mean really? i still can't believe it.    
> 
> This pandemic is going to stay with us for a long time. Its not going away unless people start working towards that goal. One would think that advancements in communication and social media should aid us in this time. It really should be humanity against this pandemic and yet we still somehow ended up fighting amongst ourselves rather then taking on this pandemic. 
> ...


Eish !

I am now being compared to a disgruntled client. 
Couldn't you come up with anything better. 
Maybe some stats on mask wearing which is the subject of this debate.

You would have noticed that not once during this debate have I tried to get anyone not to wear a mask.
It is your decision whether you wear a mask .
It is my decision whether I wear one.

My parting shot:

*Sweden* 

1. No lockdown.
2. No draconian manditory mask wearing regulations.
3. Schools not closed.
4. Businesses not closed.
5. No mask wearing in schools.
6. No ruined economy.
7. No excess deaths recorded during the last 12 months in Sweden.

What sayeth you ?

Sorry, I do not need one person who has been brainwashed by the MSM to try and get me to wear one
when the whole of Sweden has shown me that it aint necessary.

Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## adrianh

This is going in painful circles - round and round and round!!!!!!

----------

tec0 (29-Mar-21)

----------


## Derlyn

> This is going in painful circles - round and round and round!!!!!!


 :Wink:  :Big Grin:  Don't worry Adrian

I said it was my parting shot.

Peace out   ...   Derek   :Thumbup:   The end.  Hope it made for some good entertainment.

----------


## tec0

> Maybe some stats on mask wearing which is the subject of this debate.


Yea i have hoped to end this now for a while but yea here we are... 

As for me not taking time to bring you facts, well in your own words:




> It really is not necessary to do a search on your side of the coin. It is pushed down everyones throats 24/7 by the MSM.


You made it very clear you are not interested. 

But yea i digress, Enjoy your life, and do what is right for you. Just remember consequences are a thing.  :Scooter:

----------


## Justloadit

> Eish !
> 
> I am now being compared to a disgruntled client. 
> Couldn't you come up with anything better. 
> Maybe some stats on mask wearing which is the subject of this debate.
> 
> You would have noticed that not once during this debate have I tried to get anyone not to wear a mask.
> It is your decision whether you wear a mask .
> It is my decision whether I wear one.
> ...


It depends on which article you wish to select as your reference.

Check here Why Sweden is failing at Covid-19, despite its neighbours success



> Sweden baffled much of the world  and its neighbours - by not imposing a lockdown at the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.
> 
> It reversed tack in December last year.
> 
> By that time, however, its death rate per capita was one of the highest in the world, and it had three times more confirmed Covid-19 cases than Denmark, nine times more cases than Finland and six times the cases of Norway.
> 
> Dewan says that Swedens initial strategy was more than a failed policy decision  it was due to a belief in Swedish exceptionalism.


or here - COVID-19 and the Swedish enigma



> The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' independent review of the available evidence
> validates WHO's recommendations to keep a physical distance, wear a face mask, keep rooms ventilated, avoid crowds, and practise good hand and respiratory hygiene.
> However, not until Dec 18, 2020, did the government give directives to start to translate more of these recommendations into practice including the use of face masks,
> as the trajectory of rapidly rising cases and deaths continues and intensive-care facilities and the health-care professionals are stretched to the limits in many regions in Sweden.

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

----------


## Derlyn

> It depends on which article you wish to select as your reference.



I never used an article as a refererance.

My information comes directly from my nephew, Gavin Stuart, who works, lives and plays in Ucklum, Sweden.

Peace out.

----------


## tec0

> This is going in painful circles - round and round and round!!!!!!


Yea this is not going to end anytime soon.  :No:

----------


## tec0

> I never used an article as a refererance.
> 
> My information comes directly from my nephew, Gavin Stuart, who works, lives and plays in Ucklum, Sweden.
> 
> Peace out.


i don't get you. You ask for information and then dismiss it? 

Dude at this point in time do whatever you want... 

Everyone knows this thing is real, millions have lost millions and this pandemic is changing. Things are getting worse not better. I mean do you really want a level 4 or even level 5 lock down again?

the facts stand... The facts will stand long after this thread...

Coronavirus: 'Double mutant' Covid variant found in India 

15 more COVID-19 deaths & 965 new infections reported in SA

South Africa Set to Tighten Curbs to Preempt Third Wave of Virus

well there are some more links for you to ignore. 

But as i stated before, you will not change your mind until you come face to face with this thing. i really hope that doesn't happen and you will remain healthy. Despite it all i don't wish bad on you.


***edit***

i am out till next time. 

i am just going to let this go now. it is important for me to have a peaceful mind when working and this is just... sad... for lack of a better word. 

*i hope everyone remains safe and take this pandemic seriously*

----------


## Justloadit

> I never used an article as a refererance.
> 
> My information comes directly from my nephew, Gavin Stuart, who works, lives and plays in Ucklum, Sweden.
> 
> Peace out.


One swallow doesn't make a summer

The Swedes by culture already practice social distancing, and do not really congregate in large groups,  which probably has helped in their fight against Covid.
A friend of mine who has a daughter in Stokholm says otherwise. There have been a good number of Covid cases, however their medical hospitals are first world, so they are able to treating their patients with out being overloaded, which makes a difference to prevent deaths.

I have a number of friends whose parents have died due to being infected by the Covid virus. Granted that it can be due to complications introduced by Covid, but having being infected by the common flu did not cause the complications.

My father in law had a very near miss after contracting Covid last year. Had he gone into hospital, he would not have made it. He was treated at home by a very caring wife, who lost her grandmother to TB years ago. It was touch and go for approximately 4 or 5 days. He lost more than 50% of his weight in the 2 weeks he was man down. He did recover, and to date he still has some complications due to the virus.

So I do not think that you can catogorize it as being another type of flu.

Portugal after the second wave subsided, opened its borders to Spain, and with in 3 weeks had to go into lock down again, as patients were dying outside the hospitals, which were too full to take in more patients. This was no propaganda but on live News channel. What is interesting though, is that the villages and small towns did not seem to have many cases of Covid, again because of the natural social distancing that takes place due to the low numbers of folks, and many work in the agricultural sector, reducing large crowds, as opposed to the city dwellers. Tracking the cases in the villages has shown that some one brought it with them to the rural areas.

So I do not know where all this stories are coming from that it is another flu variant .

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tec0 (29-Mar-21)

----------


## Derlyn

So, Peter Makoko was shoved off a flight for not wearing a mask.

I agree that he could have made his feelings known in a more orderly manner, but I still think he has got guts, more than most of us, me included.
I admire someone who stands up for what they believe in, irrespective of the consequences.

One question I have to ask all those hypocrites who applauded when he was ushered off the plane is .....
How many of you still avoid going to the beach because of the high prevalence of this sickness there  ?

I bet you all go to the beach thanks to only 350 people who made a stand on Fishhoek beach. 2 days later the beaches were opened.

Before anyone, especially my childish friend who loves giving away lollipops, responds, watch the video and more importantly
read the comments.

99% of the comments praise Peter Makoko for his stand.  I think that the general public are starting to wake up.

It's a slow process, but it's happening. 

Peace out   ...   Derek


Here it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oZ6jmDIL-w

I know the lollipop man said he won't watch anything posted by me  :Bananadance: 

Let us once more see if he is a man of hi's word.  Somehow, I doubt it.

----------


## adrianh

I think that it is wonderful that obtuse idiots get thrown off planes. I think that they should be banned from flying for life given that they are unwilling to follow basic rules put in place for the safety of everybody. Obtuse people do not deserve the privilege of living in society. The whole lot of them should be shipped off to one city where they are free to do as they please. They can spit on one another 24/7 to their hearts content. 

I didn't watch the video or bothered to read the comments. The fact that people agree with one another in the form of a CircleJerk doesn't make them right - it just makes them noisy.... The school principal said many years ago that the problem with schooling today is that there is too much democracy in the classroom.....he is right, that is why YouTube puts a sock in the mouths of the noisy rabble...

----------


## Derlyn

I was right.

Goodnight


Should those 350 people who opened the beaches for us also be sent away to the city to be spat on ?

----------


## adrianh

> I was right.
> 
> Goodnight
> 
> 
> Should those 350 people who opened the beaches for us also be sent away to the city to be spat on ?


All the obtuse people should be shipped off to one city where THEY ARE FREE TO SPIT ON ONE ANOTHER - The anti-maskers are fighting for THEIR RIGHT TO SPIT ON ONE ANOTHER. Isn't that what you are fighting for?

The rest of us are happy to wear masks and avoid the whole spitting thing altogether.

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tec0 (08-Apr-21)

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## Derlyn

> The rest of us are happy to wear masks


How do you suck your lollies while wearing a mask?

----------


## adrianh

> How do you suck your lollies while wearing a mask?


I use my loooooooong tongue  :Embarrassment:

----------


## tec0

I guess this is round 2 or 3 or 4 not sure... 

Right, @ Derlyn...

What is your goal in all of this? 

What function does this serve? 

What are your intentions? 

Why take the risk? 

See a lot of "experts" say a lot of thing and yes everyone and their pet rock has a argument and conclusion. 

Right now i wonder, do you just want attention? I honestly don't know... Me, i think i will use my mask. I will not consume food in public areas. And while in my car i will keep it clean. Why? Because i like a clean car even before all this my car looks like i got it yesterday. So i don't eat in my car. So for me to use my mask while driving is not a problem at all. So for the life of me, i cannot understand what the real problem is. You don't want to use a mask. That is a "you" problem and the law is clear on it as well that a mask is mandatory. The law is there to protect us. That is why we have them, to protect people. So you do you. I honestly cannot be bothered to debate you, because there is no debate. 

So i will see you and the rest of all of you in 2022 maybe later. All the best to all of you and be safe, be responsible and take care. 

Cheers.  :Smile:

----------


## Andromeda

A timeline of Derek Draper's coronavirus battle  

MARCH  2020

Kate Garraway revealed she and Prince Charles had got 'relatively close' at the Prince's Trust Awards on March 11 - Charles was diagnosed with coronavirus in mid-March.  

She said: 'Around the 29/30 March, I came home came in and said [to Derek] 'god you look ill.'

'He said he had a headache, numbness in his right hand, and was struggling to breathe,

'I rang Dr Hilary (Jones) and tried to get through, he talked to Derek. He said put me back on, I think you need to call an ambulance'

Derek, 52, was taken into hospital on March 30 and remained in an unresponsive condition. 

APRIL  

Kate and her children isolated at home after she displayed 'mild symptoms'.

Kate said: 'Derek remains in intensive care and is still very ill. I'm afraid it remains an excruciatingly worrying time.

'I'm afraid he is still in a deeply critical condition, but he is still here, which means there is hope.' 

MAY 

Kate said: 'The journey for me and my family seems to be far from over as every day my heart sinks as I learn new and devastating ways this virus has more battles for Derek to fight. 

'But he is still HERE & so there is still hope.'

That month, Kate and her family took part in the final clap for carers

She said: 'I'll never give up on that because Derek's the love of my life but at the same time I have absolute uncertainty'

JUNE 

On June 5, Kate revealed Derek is now free from coronavirus but continues to fight against the damage inflicted on his body

JULY 

On July 5, Kate revealed Derek has woken from his coma but he remains in a serious yet critical condition.

On July 8, she announced she would be returning to GMB, after being urged by doctors to 'get on with life' during Derek's recovery.   

She added that Derek had 'opened his eyes' after waking from his coma, but has been told his recovery could take years.  

On July 13, Kate returned to GMB for the first time since Derek was hospitalised.    

On July 28, Kate revealed she'd paid an 'extra emotional' first visit to Derek, and admitted she's 'frustrated' by his slow progress.

AUGUST

On August 14, Kate reassured GMB viewers that Derek was 'still with us,' but it was 'a waiting game.' 

On August 19, Kate revealed she celebrated Derek's birthday with their two children, and described the day as 'challenging' for her family. 

 SEPTEMBER  

At the end of September, Derek reportedly becomes the longest surviving patient with coronavirus after spending 184 days in and out of intensive care.

Kate reveals Derek has lost eight stone during his battle.

The presenter announces she is returning to her Smooth Radio show so Derek can hear her voice. 

OCTOBER

On October 30 Kate reveals that Derek has spoken for the first time in seven months, saying the word 'pain' to his wife, who watched on 'in tears' over FaceTime. 

Kate says a day later that her husband no longer needs a ventilator to breathe. 

NOVEMBER 

Kate reveals her family car has been stolen in latest 'body blow' to her family life, as kind-hearted fans offer their cars to help.

She says she feels 'physically sick' at the prospect of facing her first Christmas without Derek.

DECEMBER 2020

The GMB star tells viewers it is her dream to visit Derek on Christmas Day.

She also reveals she missed two weeks on GMB after her children were exposed to the virus, but thankfully she and the kids tested negative.

On December 17, Kate has an emotional conversation live on GMB with two nurses who treated Derek when he was first admitted to Whittington Hospital in North London. 

On New Year's Eve she reflects on a 'calamitous' Christmas without Derek, as her house was flooded and she struggled to get a food delivery slot until her pal Emma Willis stepped in to help.

JANUARY 2021

Kate reveals she and her children got to visit Derek in hospital over the Christmas period, and it was the first time her family had seen him since he was hospitalised.

She also says she's banned from seeing him due to new restrictions introduced during the government's third lockdown. 

FEBRUARY 2021

Kate reveals she is unsure how much Derek will 'ever be able to recover' following warning from doctors that he may never wake from his coma 

Derek has now woken from the coma and has been discharged. He can can't speak, can barely move and receives 24 hour assistance and care. 

For some wearing a mask is an impossible "discomfort". 

I wonder how Derek feels about that.

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Blurock (10-Apr-21)

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## ians

Mark decided to do the "right thing"  not go to the office and instead work from home  ... wear a mask while out in public and rather stay away from crowded areas  ... wipe his parcels as he gets home ... change out of his clothes and shower when he got home ... he died 3 weeks ago.

Graham ... has been working from home since lockdown ... stays away from crowded areas ... washing his hands all the time ... always wears a mask in public ... was man down for 21 days almost died. 

Peter ... wears a mask all the time ... washes his hands and stays away form public places ... was ICU for 3 days ... almost died. 

I am an old fat ballie ...regarded as a high risk ... I have been working since the lockdowwn started ... exposed to crowded spaces ... work in close proximity to other team members all day ... in and out of shopping centres ... factories ... wholesalers ... signing covid registers with the same pen 100s of other people have been using ... collecting parcels which have been around the conuntry ... signing invoices and delivery notes ... picking  up and putting down objects other people have touched ... touch my face ... especially my eyes ... a lot ... only wear a mask when I am forced to ... which is not that often ... its a miracle that I am not dead yet ... or maybe as some have mentioned ... it could have something to do with my dirty hands.

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Andromeda (09-Apr-21)

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## Andromeda

Or luck.

----------


## ians

> Or luck.



Luck is when you are riding down the freeway ... you hit a patch of something ... go into a 2 wheel drift ... slide all 4 lanes of the freeway ...as you hit the orange line the bike corrects and you continue as if nothing happened  :Wink:  

A good friend of mine ... got married to her school sweat heart ... never smoked ... drank ...took drugs ... went to church every Sunday and worked her way up to a management position in the bank ... got cancer at 30 ... and died 2 years later.

I go see the doctor because I am told it is not good let my heart rate go over 200 bpm ... becuase I am geting on in life ... my doctor tells me if I can still get my heart rate up to 200 at my age ... i must keep at it ... a friend decided to start cycling inspired by my achivements ... he died of a heart attack after 3 ride beachfront cruises.

What are they unlucky?

----------


## adrianh

My wife has been stuck in the UK for 14 months now and it doesn't look like travel will return to any semblance of normal in the next 4 months. Her brother in law works in the ER in a UK hospital and she is a live-in carer looking after 90 year olds.

To all those who refuse to wear masks - YOU ARE THE REASON WHY MY WIFE IS STUCK IN THE UK!

----------


## ians

> My wife has been stuck in the UK for 14 months now and it doesn't look like travel will return to any semblance of normal in the next 4 months. Her brother in law works in the ER in a UK hospital and she is a live-in carer looking after 90 year olds.
> 
> To all those who refuse to wear masks - YOU ARE THE REASON WHY MY WIFE IS STUCK IN THE UK!


I dont believe the masks are the problem.

I dont know if you have noticed ... how relaxed everyone has become about the virus in SA. 

The chin guard is a joke ... kids standing in a long line ... in the pouring rain outside schools waiting to get temp scanned and imagine that ... let me stop right here ... time for dop.

----------


## adrianh

I've said this before - The "but what about those others" argument does not stand.

One cannot say: I break the rules and it is OK because I do it but the rules that "those others" break are the REAL problem.

If people simply did what was asked of them from the outset then the virus would not have spread the way that it did. One person on a plane that has the virus and does not wear a mask has a far greater PROBABILITY of infecting others. This is not rocket science - we don't use each others tooth brushes for a reason, we do wear each others dirty underwear for a reason, a dentist wears a mask when he digs around in your mouth for a reason. 

Why is this stuff so difficult to explain to adults - I suppose it is because some adults feel that it is their God given right to do whatever the F they want with no regard for others simply because they are obtuse. The reason they are obtuse is because they do not see the consequences of their actions. You won't drive on the wrong side of the highway because you know you will get killed but you don't want to wear a mask because the result of your actions is invisible to you - This is the exact same reason why people smoke - they are unable to connect their actions in the present to possible consequences in the future.

The thing that I find most interesting about this anti-mask nonsense is that is is a specific type of person that chooses to be obtuse - It is not the extremely wealthy person - they know how to look after themselves, it is not the ultra poor person - they do what they are told - it is a group of people right in the middle who like to BANDWAGON bullcrap causes to show others that they are part of the "little bit" hardass group. They wont stick their necks out very far for their cause - they are the so-called "Karens" of the world - the ones who rant and rave just enough to annoy people but not enough to get a baseball bat to the ear. The world is filled with people like this - they are the ones who walk around town without masks flaunting their indifference....yet they have a mask in their pocket in case a cop decides to arrest them or a shop bouncer decides to toss them out on the street.

The point I am trying to make is this: if you want to be difficult then go in balls to the wall - tell the whole world to get f...d and drive on the wrong side of the road - go everywhere without a mask and face the consequences. This is far better than being a "performative activist" The entire planet is sick and tired of the performative activist "Karens" of the world. Stand 100% for your right to be obtuse or stop wasting time "just being annoying enough" not to have to face serious consequences.

----------


## Blurock

@Derlyn, you obviously have a right to your opinion, but I now challenge you to put your money where your mouth is.
Go to a Covid ward without a mask. Spend some time there, at least an hour or two. 
Talk to the victims and ask them about their experience and how they feel about wearing a mask.
Then come back and tell us about your experience.

You should not be afraid to catch the virus from the hospitalised people because its just a sham. Like Jair Bolsonaro, president of Brazil said; don't be "sissies" everyone dies sometime. In a country where more than 70 000 infections was recorded in one day and cemeteries have no more capacity.

So, don't be a "sissy", take up the challenge and show us how immune you are.

----------


## Derlyn

Blurock

I tried to take up your challenge, but I couldn't even get in at the gate outside.

The " sissies " at the gate wouldn't let me in without a mask.

Peace out  ..  Derek

Regarding the 70 000 infections in Brazil  ....  Do you know whether those infected were mask wearers or not ?

----------


## adrianh

@Blurock - As I said: The Performative Activism Karens like to be obtuse enough to be annoying but they are too scared to stand up for their so-called right to do whatever they want.

Here is a LiveLeak video showing them in action.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9DGob_1616323993

Shame man, it must be hard for them to go through life as wannabe activists. They are the ones who walk around with placards screaming their heads off and then run away at the 1st sign of a water canon. 

The psychology driving these people is really interesting - They are the ones who continually complain about everything yet are unwilling to do anything about it - the whingers and whiners of the world.

----------


## Justloadit

> Blurock
> 
> I tried to take up your challenge, but I couldn't even get in at the gate outside.
> 
> The " sissies " at the gate wouldn't let me in without a mask.
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek
> 
> Regarding the 70 000 infections in Brazil  ....  Do you know whether those infected were mask wearers or not ?


From this statement it seems that they are lax on masks




> BBC South America correspondent Katy Watson says Jair Bolsonaro has never cared much for masks - a health recommendation that has become highly politicised, as has much of the handling of the coronavirus crisis in Brazil.
> 
> Even where mask use has been made obligatory not everyone has observed the rules, and enforcement is often pretty lax, our correspondent adds.

----------


## ians

Blurock would you go into a covid ward wearing just a cloth mask?

Another f%^& joke ... as mentioned elsewhere ... my sister was put into a covid ward ... after a couple day the test results came back negative ... she was released ... I wonder if they made her wear a mask?

----------


## Derlyn

> @Blurock - As I said: The Performative Activism Karens like to be obtuse enough to be annoying but they are too scared to stand up for their so-called right to do whatever they want.
> 
> Here is a LiveLeak video showing them in action.
> 
> https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9DGob_1616323993
> 
> Shame man, it must be hard for them to go through life as wannabe activists. They are the ones who walk around with placards screaming their heads off and then run away at the 1st sign of a water canon. 
> 
> The psychology driving these people is really interesting - They are the ones who continually complain about everything yet are unwilling to do anything about it - the whingers and whiners of the world.


My brother Adrian

As a self proclaimed master debater you should know that insulting your opposition and declaring that they are working on your nerves is the first sign of you losing the debate.

The only time I have maybe insulted you is when I referred to you as a chop. For that I sincerely apologise even although I think that description of you is quite appropriate.

You say I am responsible for your wife being stranded in the UK. I still want you to explain that one to me.
Anyway, when you speak to her again, please tell her that I, Derek Stuart, apologize from the bottom of my heart, for being the cause of her being stranded in the UK at the moment. Also tell her that I do not know how me wearing a mask from tomorrow on is going to improve her lot. 

You refer to me being an obtuse person. The last time I heard that was in high school while doing geometry.

Running away from water cannons ? I've never been near one.

You talk about a wanna be activist.

During the last 6 months I have on more than 30 occasions told Xolani to pack up the tools and let's go, when told to wear a mask while on site while the domestic, all the children and the "madam" are maskless.

We leave site. Period.

More than 50% of the time I get called and begged to finish what we started. I go back on my terms. That is what I call being an activist. We then become friends and more people's eyes are opened. That's how you do it. One person at a time.

You will remember that this post was started when I was refused having my tank filled for not wearing a mask. I didn't just put on a mask to comply. I told him what to do with the petrol hose. That is activism.

I also told the owner of Pick n Pay to shove hi's store where the sun doesn't shine. That is activism.

What have you done?  Nothing. Because you have been brainwashed. I really and truly feel for you.

I'm really sorry that I work on your nerves.

Please accept my humble apologies. I have already been accused of being the cause of your wife being stranded and would really not like to be the cause of you also having a nervous breakdown. I would then be the cause of the whole demise of your family. I really don't want that, so once again, I sincerely apologize for working on your nerves. ( Keep those Calmetts handy, brother )

Please don't send me more lollipops as I am diabetic and they really are bad for me. 

It has been said that when debating a certain subject then look at all the angles.

By refusing to look at something offered by the opposing debater you are only proving that you have lost the debate. Makes me think of a certain religious group, but we will leave it there.

Peace out, my brother.  I still love you.

Derek.

----------


## adrianh

LoL - Performative Activism at its best!




> By refusing to look at something offered by the opposing debater you are only proving that you have lost the debate.


Here is an analogy that you might get: If you tell me to take TIK to share your experience I would not do so because I know that it is garbage - likewise - I know that your conspiracy theory videos and stuff are garbage so I don't have to waste my time on it.

There is a technical term that perfectly describes the previous post - "The signal to noise ratio is rather poor" - You know, lots of static but no real music!

----------


## Derlyn

You talk about TIK quite a lot in your posts.  Watch out for that stuff, my brother. It's like anything else. Too much is no good for you.
Toodledoo.

----------


## Blurock

> Blurock
> 
> I tried to take up your challenge, but I couldn't even get in at the gate outside.
> 
> The " sissies " at the gate wouldn't let me in without a mask.
> 
> Peace out  ..  Derek
> 
> Regarding the 70 000 infections in Brazil  ....  Do you know whether those infected were mask wearers or not ?


I doubt if that is true. You could enter with a mask and then take it off once inside. Anyway, the statistics cannot be refuted. Students attended a rave in Umhlanga with no masks and it turned into a super spreader. Lockdowns were lifted and people started partying and covid cases multiply. This happens all over the world with authorities battling to get this into the minds of people who are just to stupid or stubborn to accept that this is not just a common cold, but a deadly virus that has serious adverse affects, even if you don't die from it.

I am also against a hard lockdown and all its negative effects. I am also against the government's disregard for the rights of citizens, but let common sense prevail and at least respect the right of your neighbours and community not to be infected. I have to admit I sometimes forget to wear my mask, it is an inconvenience, but at least I try to abide by the rules and respect the views of the people around me.

----------


## Justloadit

What I did notice last winter, was that there were far less cases of the common flu, could it have been the influence of masks and hand cleaning?
Winter is on its way, lets see if it is the same this year.
What the pandemic has created is a much cleaner environment that we tend to live in. I have never seen shopping trolleys so clean.




> Unlike previous years, where flu activity would drop in summer and then rise again winter, in 2020 it has remained consistently low since April.
> This has caused some users to believe that cases of the flu are being mislabeled as COVID-19, leaving comments like: Thats because theyve used flu numbers and turned them into covid and flu eradicated or covid is flu rebranded ?.
> However, there is a reasonable explanation for why flu activity has remained low during the pandemic.
> Influenza and Corona viruses infect the lungs following inhalation of environmental droplets, Tracy Hussell, Professor of Inflammatory Disease at Manchester University, told Reuters via email.
> Since they use a similar transmission route, the measures currently being taken to slow the development of severe COVID-19 disease (social distancing and mask wearing) are likely responsible for the reduction in influenza virus infection in the current 2020/2021 season.

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adrianh (11-Apr-21)

----------


## ians

"Students attended a rave in Umhlanga with no masks and it turned into a super spreader." 

Do you believe if they were wearing masks ... it wouldnt have turned into a super spreader ?

I decided to take a walk on the beach this morning ... one thing did stand out and it wasnt people wearing masks ... both the officers in the police car were wearing masks ... however there was no enforcement of mask wearing ... the offerders out numbered the mask wears at least 10-1.

I would be interested to see how many people would actually wear a mask in a shopping centre if it wasnt enforced.

----------


## Derlyn

> "Students attended a rave in Umhlanga with no masks and it turned into a super spreader." 
> 
> Do you believe if they were wearing masks ... it wouldnt have turned into a super spreader ?
> 
> I decided to take a walk on the beach this morning ... one thing did stand out and it wasnt people wearing masks ... both the officers in the police car were wearing masks ... however there was no enforcement of mask wearing ... the offerders out numbered the mask wears at least 10-1.
> 
> I would be interested to see how many people would actually wear a mask in a shopping centre if it wasnt enforced.


Ian

People are starting to wake up.
Never before in the history of the world has a healthy person ( the new word is asymptomatic ) infected another healthy ( asymptomatic ) person with a respiratory disease.



Mask use

There are many studies that show that masking is not effective in preventing infection transmission, except possibly in settings where there are sick individuals (35, 36, 37, 38, 39).  A recent document published by the WHO – in December 2020 – states that there is very inconsistent evidence proving the effectiveness of mask-wearing in the community for the prevention of respiratory virus infections, including COVID-19 (40). When we compare the epidemic curves in places with and without mask mandates, the curves look similar. In fact, we observe a higher number of infections per 100,000 of the population in places with mask mandates (41).

The most important argument against the compulsory use of masks is simply the lack of evidence that anyone without symptoms walking around the community will be a contagious person. In public health management, sometimes it is appropriate to impose a certain measure upon an individual, for the common good, when there is evidence that the individual represents a major risk to the rest of the population. It is not acceptable, however, to restrict or impose a behavior on individuals without evidence that the individual represents a significant risk to the community, and that this measure will not harm the individual. It is very unlikely that an asymptomatic person is infectious. Therefore, it is unjustified to require everyone to wear a mask in the community, even if masks have shown some benefit when worn by individuals with symptoms. This argument becomes even stronger when we take the potential adverse effects of masks into consideration. These include symptoms such as headaches, dizziness, shortness of breath and other problems including psychological impact, acne, respiratory infections and dental problems (42, 43, 44, 45).

The full article including the studies etc can be read here:

https://www.pandata.org/a-critical-a...ovid-response/

Soon, the only one's who are gonna stand out in the crowd are mask wearers.

So, I did not take the decision not to wear a mask lightly.
I knew there were going to be disadvantages. We had to find grocery outlets that would allow us in without masks. Done.
We had to find a butcher that was not fazed. Done.
The electrical wholesaler takes my order by phone, delivers the invoice and card machine to me in the parking lot and then delivers the goods to my car. They look after their good, cash paying clients.

So, it is possible.

I did not take this decision lightly. I certainly did not take this decision to stand out in the crowd or because I think I'm better than anyone else. I also did not take this decision because I have an " f everyone else " attitude as the lollipop man ( chop ) would want you to believe. I also don't go around spitting on other people 24/7. Never have. Why would I do it now ? 

I made an INFORMED DECISION after reading everything at my disposal. If I'm not sick, I cannot make anyone else sick, mask or no mask.

Better stop now before I get more lollipops coming my way.  ..  :Smile: 

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## Blurock

> I made an INFORMED DECISION after reading everything at my disposal.


Call me synical if you wish, but I do not believe any of the so called facts regarding the virus and the vaccinations. The origin of the virus is suspect, the symptoms vary, there are new variants and there is still no proven cure. There are new findings and "breakthroughs" and everyone has an opinion, but there are very little facts or proven medical studies. There are governments and organisations who are using this as a cover for their own twisted agendas and there are people who are making shitloads of money.

Considering the corruption and sordit state of our state run institutions, can we believe all the reports and statistics given by our authorities? 

What I do believe is that the virus, just like flu, for which there is no cure yet, will be with us for a long time still. I am not paranoid and often forget to wear my mask, but I will rather be safe than sorry.

----------


## adrianh

> I made an INFORMED DECISION after reading everything at my disposal. If I'm not sick, I cannot make anyone else sick, mask or no mask.


You clearly don't understand the basics of the transmission of disease so your information SUCKS! Look up the term "DISEASE CARRIER"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_carrier

Its very complicated....but you can try to understand!

----------


## ians

Watching brain dead series (a way to relax).

The big bang theory (how long ago was this series made?) ... interesting to see Bill Gates in the series ... Penny spends the day with Bill Gates with regards to a vaccine.

watching youtube "how to make money" ... an interview with Bill gates and warren buffet ... so where are you investing your money ... they both replied ... the money is in vaccines. 

If looks like shyte ... smells like shyte ... has the same texture as shyte ... could it be shyte ... maybe not ... it could be a different strain of shyte  :Wink:

----------


## Derlyn

> You clearly don't understand the basics of the transmission of disease so your information SUCKS! Look up the term "DISEASE CARRIER"
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_carrier
> 
> Its very complicated....but you can try to understand!


Only people with rocks in their head believes everything they see on wikipedia.

Just phone anyone who has a page on wikipedia and ask them if what's written on their page is true.

You will quickly see what I mean.

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## tec0

@Derek

The only reason why i am on, is someone i know, got sick but after what feels like a very very long time, he is showing improvement. 

So here is the thing... 

So why don't you take a drive to your local hospital? See how many people are actually sick of this virus? Then you can go to each of them and express your opinion? 

Why don't you take a drive the local cemetery, and once the surviving family/friends are done, express to them your opinions? 

See it is easy to scream, conspiracy and all that, and "debate" not that I would call this a debate. *There is no Conspiracy* 
Here is a website for you COVID-19 Corona Virus South African Resource Portal These are the facts as I understand them. 

But tell you what, if you are this confident, go to the overworked staff/doctors and express to all of them your opinion? 

But if you want to keep on with this, you better know, there are people that are hurting, there are people that have lost a lot. Be very careful on whom you step on next. Be exceptionally careful because there will be a consequence. Simple truth is you are stepping on people that are hurting, that have lost those whom they love. I suggest you respect them/their situation.  

The laws are clear about this. The laws are clear about a lot of things.   

*This virus is real, it is dangerous it is deadly it has claimed lives all over the world. Please be careful and wear a mask, do what is needed to keep yourself/family/friends/others safe*






> JOHANNESBURG – The latest COVID-19 report from the health department states 30 people have succumbed to the coronavirus in South Africa in the last 24 hours. This brought the overall death toll to 53,256. 
> 
> Source:SA records 30 more fatalities & 1,285 new COVID-19 cases







> The first, known as the N501Y mutation, makes it more likely to bind to human cells, which could enhance its transmissibility. It also has the E484K mutation, which is thought to help the virus evade parts of the immune system and antibodies.
> 
> Source: What we know about the South African coronavirus variant


**edit**

Conclusion. 

Here is the thing, i am not going debate you, explain to you or even attempt to convince you to do the right thing. It should be your choice your responsibility towards others and yourself to do what is right. The laws as i said was/is clear about this topic. 

So thus i leave you, i am way to sensitive to maintain the levelheadedness that is required to deal with this topic.

So i will leave you with those that are much better qualified to deal with you. This include the entities that monitor and control these situations. 

Best of luck to you, It is my hope you never come face to face with this pandemic and you will remain safe.

This goes to everyone else, be safe and do the responsible thing. Your family, your friends and those whom you care about and love is worth it. It is worth protecting them.

----------


## Derlyn

@ TECo

Good morning, brother.

Yes, I think I'll stop now. I've made my point.

Have a great, fearless day.   :Big Grin: 

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## Derlyn

Sorry.  Couldn't help it.

I'm outta here.

Derek

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## adrianh

Your childish nonsense is really starting to drag!

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tec0 (12-Apr-21)

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## tec0

> Your childish nonsense is really starting to drag!


This is not over. But is no longer my problem, or so is my choice. The truth will find its own way, it always does in situations like this. 

So I personally will be stepping back, i have work to do and a lot of work at that. 

See this individual found a sensitive topic and will milk it for all that it is worth. 

However... All that said, i wish this individual well. See apart from probability and random event, one is also left at the mercy of one's own choices. Sometimes it is the latter other times it is the former but at this point I digress.

**edit**

right friend of mine phoned me yesterday. They where send home after a number of their coworkers was tested positive. My friend was lucky and tested negative. However many showed minor symptoms there was 2 individuals that wasn't so lucky. The one is hospitalized and his health is not improving. We are not sure what is happening to the other yet.

i placed this here because this stuff is serious and really please be safe. The pandemic is real, it has claimed a lot of lives. please be safe.

----------


## Andromeda

Sweden had the highest number of Covid-19 infections per capita in Europe last week. The lockdown-averse country also had more patients in intensive care than at any other time since the first wave of the pandemic last spring. 

The Scandinavian country has recorded 625 new infections per million people in the past seven days, according to ourworldindata.org. The number is vastly higher than neighbouring Nordic countries Finland, Norway and Denmark, which recorded 65, 132, 111 cases respectively. It is also higher than those reported in France (430), Germany (208), Spain (237) and the United Kingdom (254), according to the data. 

Sweden made headlines around the world by never imposing the type of lockdown seen elsewhere in Europe but it started tightening measures in the face of a stronger than expected second wave at the start of the year. As of Monday, 392 people were in intensive care with coronavirus, according to the Swedish intensive care registry. That surpasses the second-wave peak of 389 in January, according to the country's intensive care registry, but is lower than the overall peak of 588 patients seen during spring last year, The Guardian reported. Sweden's death toll has so far avoided the sharp rise seen in infections and ICU figures due to many of the most vulnerable having received vaccines.

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tec0 (14-Apr-21)

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## Derlyn

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/judy-mikovits-viruses

Me thinks she knows what she's talking about.

What do you think ?

 :Big Grin: 

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## Andromeda

Some are not so sure..
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ny-fauci-viral

----------


## Andromeda

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/AID.2020.0095

----------


## Andromeda

This is particularly relevant:

So, all in all Mikovits has form as a serial scientific fantasist who has consistently made unsubstantiated claims about mouse retroviruses as the cause of a number of human diseases. The only “evidence” ever published by her was unequivocally shown to stem from laboratory contamination and explicit fabrication of data. She was never a leading researcher in the field; her doctoral studies were only very minor contributions to the field and until the XMRV debacle, very few had ever heard of her. Her subsequent “research” took advantage of people desperate to have an explanation for their debilitating symptoms, giving them false hope and many a false narrative where they are the victims of a massive medical cover up. In doing so, she also trashed the reputation of her former mentor, Frank Ruscetti. Her reappearance now as an apparently maligned “scientific leader” challenging the orthodoxy on vaccines and COVID-19 would be a source of eye-rolling were she not being taken seriously by countless Internet warriors posting and reposting the trailer for Plandemic. Her claims have been picked up by right-wing commentators in the United States desperate to show that the lockdown measures taken against COVID-19 are a pernicious over-reaction designed to damage President Trump, whose inconsistent handling of the crisis has garnered a huge amount of criticism. In doing so, she is playing with fire in the heightened atmosphere of our “fake news” era. It is incumbent on scientists to call this out for what it is: fabricated nonsense. There is no legitimate debate to be had on these issues, and any credence given to these dangerous conspiracies will lead to even greater suffering resulting from COVID-19. Steer well clear of Plandemic and the claims of Judy Mikovits.

*Author Disclosure Statement*
No competing financial interests exist.

*Funding Information*
This work was supported by a Wellcome Trust Senior Fellowship WT098049AIA to SJDN.

* https://scienceblogs.com/erv

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## Andromeda

It just gets worse...

Judy Mikovits
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judy Mikovits
Born	Judy Anne Mikovits
1957 or 1958 (age 62–63)[1]
Nationality	American
Alma mater	University of Virginia
Occupation	Former biochemistry research scientist,[2][3][4]
author of conspiracy literature[5]
Known for	Anti-vaccine activism,
promotion of conspiracy theories,
scientific misconduct
Judy Anne Mikovits (born 1957 or 1958) is an American former research scientist who is known for her discredited medical claims, such as that murine endogenous retroviruses are linked to chronic fatigue syndrome. As an outgrowth of these claims, she has engaged in anti-vaccination activism, promoted conspiracy theories, and been accused of scientific misconduct. She has made false claims about vaccines, COVID-19 and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), among others.

As research director of CFS research organization Whittemore Peterson Institute (WPI) from 2006 to 2011, Mikovits led an effort that reported in 2009 that a retrovirus known as xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV) was associated with CFS and might have a causal role. However, following widespread criticism, the paper was retracted on December 22, 2011, by the journal Science. In November 2011, she was arrested and held on charges that she stole laboratory notebooks and a computer from WPI, but she was released after five days and the charges were later dropped.

In 2020, Mikovits promoted conspiracy theories about the COVID-19 pandemic via the internet video Plandemic, which made claims that are either false, or not based on scientific evidence.

----------


## Derlyn

Thank you Andromeda

I suppose each one has his or her opinion.

Wouldn't take Wikipedia too seriously. They cannot even make up their mind when she was born.
Most people with Wikipedia pages will tell you the load of bull on their page.

Anyway, what she said in this interview with Jeremy sounded quite convincing, but then again, I'm just a sparkie.

This is what a couple of other people have to say about her:

PRAISE FOR PLAGUE OF CORRUPTION

"One of the main problems of our time is the public loss of confidence in the scientific community because of a too often corrupt coalition of governmental and corporate entities. Judy Mikovits's and Kent Heckenlively's book delves into the midst of this rampant corruption, which hides  from the public scientific truths which might go against these corporate economic interests."
—Dr. Luc Montagnier, 2008 Nobel Laureate for the isolation of the HIV retrovirus

"Kent Heckenlively and Judy Mikovits are the new dynamic duo fighting corruption in science."   
—Ben Garrison, America's #1 political satirist 

"What this book teaches you more than anything else is that science is a dangerous game. The notion that science is precise and unambiguous is wrong. When there is doubt, there is the potential for powerful interested parties to make life miserable for a scientist with integrity. Throughout the book, intrigue is seamlessly intertwined with fascinating revelations about the still poorly understood science behind the potential role of retroviruses in mysterious debilitating diseases like chronic fatigue syndrome and autism."
—Dr. Stephanie Seneff, Senior Research Scientist, MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory 

"The breathtaking story of an extraordinary scientist who discovered the most likely cause of chronic fatigue syndrome, only to witness a cover-up and character assassination emanating from the highest levels of the scientific community. An incisive critique of what's wrong with science today, and yet a hopeful portrait of how science still has the means to find the truth. It leaves you overwhelmed by the insidious methods and players corrupting science, but hopeful for truth-seekers in the scientific community like Dr. Mikovits who are persevering against all odds." 
—J.B. Handley, co-founder of Generation Rescue and author of How to End the Autism Epidemic 


Couple of big names there, brother.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## ians

Everyday I go to work I see less and less people wearing a chin guard ... less and less hand cleaning ... more and more people leaning against counters ... shopping centres full to capacity ques of people standing literally on top of each other ... most places have stopped the ridiculous temp checking ( lots of people made a few million out of temp devices ... what a joke) its like ads on youtube ...just wasting another 10 seconds of your precious time ... food outlets full of people spitting at each other without their chin guards. 

How many people reading this thread wear a mask when they arent a shopping mall or places were they are not forced to wear one by law? 

I am not even going to start with the crap ... people are spraying on their hands ... do you really spray the contents from a bottle which you have no idea what is actually in the bottle? 

The one thing I am very happy to see ... people starting to shake hands and hug each again ... fist bumping and elbow tapping ... really ... rather go wash your hands before and after with the liquid used in spray bottles (have you smelt some of that shyte) 

 I am not saying washing your hands is a bad thing ... I just dont use a liquid from an unkown source ... I carry baby wipes and my own hand cleaner. 

My favourite is the people who spend more time worrying about who is washing hands and wearing a mask than actually doing what they set out to do  :Frown:

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## Blurock

This thread is getting so boring as everyone has an opinion without any substantial facts. Not even the renowned scientists are sure about what they are dealing with, as not enough research and testing had been done. 
All we know is that the virus is highly contagious as is now happening in India and that people are being affected differently. Some die and some don't. There is so much bullshit flying around, you should make up your own mind whether you want to wear a mask or not, and whether you want to be inoculated or not.
Please can we close this thread now.

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adrianh (29-Apr-21)

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## Derlyn

_This thread is getting so boring as everyone has an opinion without any substantial facts. Not even the renowned scientists are sure about what they are dealing with, as not enough research and testing had been done._

I disagree. There are multitudes of renowned scientists who know exactly what they are dealing with but are silenced and de platformed because they are not interested in following the "kroon".

_There is so much bullshit flying around._

You are correct. That's because the truth is being suppressed at all costs.

_You should make up your own mind whether you want to wear a mask or not._

I agree 100%, but due to the draconian rules and regulations, *you* are not allowed to, unless of course you are like me.

I'm catching plenty shad here between 2 and 4am. That's the best time for them here. Unfortunately I'm busy breaking the law. I hope I am forgiven.

Yep.  Let's close this thread.

Cheers and peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

...round and round we go......getting our last justification in...

OK....so are are everybody going to go around in 5 more circles getting their last words in as well....

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## Derlyn

Yep. Just like you.
How's the lollipop collection coming on ?

Derek

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## Andromeda

Pht

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## tec0

> Yep. Just like you.
> How's the lollipop collection coming on ?
> 
> Derek


tread softly Derek, you are stepping on my calm. 

I urge you to comprehend and in short realize that thousands have lost thousands... People whom we loved is no more and with us a memory and a thought "it was to soon" they still had so much to give so much to offer but they are gone now. We will never get to hear their voices, see them smile again. All we get are memories...  

This pandemic is to be taken seriously, *the steps we take to protect ourselves is of utmost importance*. I urge you not to mock others. You have not yet come face to face with this pandemic, the heartbreak it brings. In simple words, you are lucky so far. But one day this Pandemic *may* touch face and i hope you never have to experience the fear, the sadness and the loss it brings. To see first hand how fragile life truly is...  

tread ever so softly Derek, and comprehend that this pandemic is very real, it is very dangerous, it has claimed many lives. 3.17 Million people "as the number stands now" is gone. That is 3.17 million friends family members that are in mourning. 

Now do with these words what you will. Consequence is a very real thing, protect yourself by doing so you are protecting those around you.

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Blurock (01-May-21)

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## ians

A visit to the clinic packed to capacity  ..  no testing available ... coughing/high temperature/ sore throat/ tired all the symptons ... medication offered and sent home ...  back to work on Monday or Tuesday ... lets hope it is just the flu.

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## tec0

> A visit to the clinic packed to capacity  ..  no testing available ... coughing/high temperature/ sore throat/ tired all the symptons ... medication offered and sent home ...  back to work on Monday or Tuesday ... lets hope it is just the flu.


take care of yourself. i also hope it is just a flue

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## Blurock

> A visit to the clinic packed to capacity  ..  no testing available ... coughing/high temperature/ sore throat/ tired all the symptons ... medication offered and sent home ...  back to work on Monday or Tuesday ... lets hope it is just the flu.


Stay strong my friend. We hope it's just the flu and not more serious stuff.

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## ians

I am not sick ... one of my staff members is off ... just sharing his experience yesterday ... which puts me in a position as the owner ... what do I do ... we have been working numerous sites interacting with hundreds of people... because they didnt do a test on him but rather sent him and all the other patients home with a handful of medication. 

Do I let him return to work on Monday and go about our day like nothing is wrong ... potentially exposing everyone we come into contact ... I will be working in a school full of children on Monday or Tuesday. 

I decided to work in the workshop yesterday and stay away from everyone even though I am not experiencing any systems ...  just in case he was tested and found to be positive ... So a waste of day ... money pissed down drain dead line shifted  .. We still dont know if he has covid ... he is out about today in town sorting out month end payments ... in and out of taxis.

I can only shake my head and smile ... lets hope it is only the flu.

----------


## tec0

> I am not sick ... one of my staff members is off ... just sharing his experience yesterday ... which puts me in a position as the owner ... what do I do ... we have been working numerous sites interacting with hundreds of people... because they didnt do a test on him but rather sent him and all the other patients home with a handful of medication. 
> 
> Do I let him return to work on Monday and go about our day like nothing is wrong ... potentially exposing everyone we come into contact ... I will be working in a school full of children on Monday or Tuesday. 
> 
> I decided to work in the workshop yesterday and stay away from everyone even though I am not experiencing any systems ...  just in case he was tested and found to be positive ... So a waste of day ... money pissed down drain dead line shifted  .. We still dont know if he has covid ... he is out about today in town sorting out month end payments ... in and out of taxis.
> 
> I can only shake my head and smile ... lets hope it is only the flu.


Maybe this can help: What if I or a colleague has coronavirus symptoms?




> The employer must not permit the employee to enter the workplace or to report for work. If the employee is already at work, the employer must ensure that the employee is isolated, provided with a surgical mask, washes their hands, and arrange for the worker to be transported in a manner that does not place other workers or members of the public at risk, either to be self-isolation (if < 55 yrs old and with no comorbidities) or for a medical examination or testing (if >55 yrs and / or with comorbidities). While the employee awaits their test results, the employee must remain in self-isolation.
> 
> The employer is not obliged to test everyone in the business, but should an employee test positive, the employer should identify close contacts of the employee and either send these for testing or self-quarantine depending on whether they have symptoms or not and on whether they meet the testing criteria or not (>55 yrs old and / or co-morbidities).
> 
> The employer should also disinfect the area that the employee operated in and the employee's workstation.

----------


## ians

I wonder why this is suddenly doing the rounds.


https://nemosnewsnetwork.com/a-delet...2EYgHm-UoKf11g

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## Derlyn

Watch out, Ian.

Not too long and you also gonna be labelled a conspiricy theorist, a lunatic, child etc. 😆😆😆😆

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## tec0

> Watch out, Ian.
> 
> Not too long and you also gonna be labelled a conspiricy theorist, a lunatic, child etc. 😆😆😆😆


The resolve is simple, Take your masks gloves and all the PPE you need and go to the hospital. If they let you in and that is a* BIG IF*! Talk to the staff take the time to know the situation. Go see first hand with what they are dealing with and hear the concerns they have. *I doubt they will allow you to get close but that is for your own safety.* 

In the end of the day Derek, this is a way for you to hammer on a sensitive subject, to get a easy response on people's raw emotions and more to the point provoke people who are truly hurting. But I digress. 

*Take the situation seriously, protect yourselves at all times and remember the laws are here to protect us. The preventative steps we take are essential so are the laws that protect us.* 

All this said, i will be going for a while. I got real work to do and and since this "Thread" is factually messing with my calm, i will be blocking the website for a little while. That way you cannot provoke me anymore. 

So i guess you can call it a win? Showed me that you are indeed the boss and whatever else it is that you ego need, give yourself whatever title you wish to assign yourself. Perhaps give yourself that pat on the back maybe? Or give yourself some other expression of approval or congratulations. Whatever it is you do. 

Me, i got work to do. Time to get to it. 

Cheers.  :Scooter:

----------


## ians

> The resolve is simple, Take your masks gloves and all the PPE you need and go to the hospital. If they let you in and that is a* BIG IF*! Talk to the staff take the time to know the situation. Go see first hand with what they are dealing with and hear the concerns they have. *I doubt they will allow you to get close but that is for your own safety.* 
> 
> In the end of the day Derek, this is a way for you to hammer on a sensitive subject, to get a easy response on people's raw emotions and more to the point provoke people who are truly hurting. But I digress. 
> 
> *Take the situation seriously, protect yourselves at all times and remember the laws are here to protect us. The preventative steps we take are essential so are the laws that protect us.* 
> 
> All this said, i will be going for a while. I got real work to do and and since this "Thread" is factually messing with my calm, i will be blocking the website for a little while. That way you cannot provoke me anymore. 
> 
> So i guess you can call it a win? Showed me that you are indeed the boss and whatever else it is that you ego need, give yourself whatever title you wish to assign yourself. Perhaps give yourself that pat on the back maybe? Or give yourself some other expression of approval or congratulations. Whatever it is you do. 
> ...


I dont understand why people get so worked up ... there is block facility on social media platforms ... its simple you block the person and move on ... or just dont open the thread ... if it is all the people on the platform who are pi$$ing you off them take a break and come back in a few weeks ... months or years time. 

We are all different in our own strange way ... the beuty about social media ... you can move into spaces where you fit and can express yourself ... you control the content you view and the people you want to follow or block.

For example I have no interest in accounting ... so I dont even open the threads ... I have no idea what is discussed in those threads ... you will notice the same people responding to the threads ... either because thay have an interest in the topic or a question or an answer to help someone.

There are moderators who have a responsibilty to keep the content clean and manage threads which get out of hand ... they can lock or delete content ... there is also a PM facility which can be used to communicate with members ... a moderator can step in an request a member be a little more considerate.

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## Dave A

> There are moderators who have a responsibilty to keep the content clean and manage threads which get out of hand ... they can lock or delete content ... there is also a PM facility which can be used to communicate with members ... a moderator can step in an request a member be a little more considerate.


Just for the record, this moderator is proceeding on the basis that the participants in this thread so far are grown-ups with loads of social media experience.
Views and counter views are well represented, so the engagement is not one-sided either.

The only thing that would be helpful would be if there was less "playing the man" and more focus on the topic(s). But in my view "playing the man" never reflects too well on the posters that engage in it anyway. Easy for me to say as an analytical, I guess...

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## tec0

> Just for the record, this moderator is proceeding on the basis that the participants in this thread so far are grown-ups with loads of social media experience.
> Views and counter views are well represented, so the engagement is not one-sided either.
> 
> The only thing that would be helpful would be if there was less "playing the man" and more focus on the topic(s). But in my view "playing the man" never reflects too well on the posters that engage in it anyway. Easy for me to say as an analytical, I guess...


This is a terribly difficult situation. Thousands have lost thousands so emotions is a key factor here. Simply put, for those that did touch face with this pandemic and have gone trough the ordeal will have a emotionally invested point of view. But at this point i digress. I am not going to wish ill on anyone, i am not going to partake in this discussion anymore. I rather just go away for a while and let the situation sort itself out. 

Yes i could have clicked away, but the fact of the matter is this situation has a high degree of danger to it. Thus i felt obligated to spell it out as best i can. This pandemic is real, this pandemic is dangerous, the regulations and requirements are there to protect us. Because prevention is truly important. But at this point once again i digress. 

In another post someone, mentioned the blocking system and i totally forgot about it. Basically used it immediately. 

So as it stand i will leave things be.

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## adrianh

In the real world people who constantly go into social groups and provoke others with their continual childish rants get a slap on the ear and thrown out the door. In the social media world we are forced to allow them to continually shoot their mouths off whilst looking the other way (Blocking) 

So be it!

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tec0 (03-May-21)

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## ians

At least I have good news ... test results are negative ... it is just the flu ... better safe than sorry ... back to work from tomorrow. 

Apparently the clinic is full again today and doesnt have facilities to test for covid ... so he was moved to a hospital and tested. 

He is feeling better and just has a sore throat.

This is a sensitive subject and maybe its time to move forward.

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tec0 (03-May-21)

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## adrianh

> I dont understand why people get so worked up ... there is block facility on social media platforms ... its simple you block the person and move on ...


The thing that you need to understand is this: When people continually run their mouths with no regard for anybody else then all that happens is that good people leave permanently. I belong to many Facebook groups and the same thing happens over and over again - one or two people are continually obtuse and the rest just leave because the "mouths" sour the group. 

Reddit is a case in point and the problem is much worse there - The "circleJerkers" - the ones who back one another up with their views downvote all other views until those views no longer show up at all. The "CircleJerkers" then again think that they are right because they downvoted all other views. 

The other side of the argument is that we have freedom of speech (within reason of course) and if people choose to be obtuse all the time then that is their right. The rest of the world can then choose to ignore everything they have to say. This is unfortunate because they have really great input on other topics!

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## Derlyn

> The thing that you need to understand is this: When people continually run their mouths with no regard for anybody else then all that happens is that good people leave permanently. I belong to many Facebook groups and the same thing happens over and over again - one or two people are continually obtuse and the rest just leave because the "mouths" sour the group. 
> 
> Reddit is a case in point and the problem is much worse there - The "circleJerkers" - the ones who back one another up with their views downvote all other views until those views no longer show up at all. The "CircleJerkers" then again think that they are right because they downvoted all other views. 
> 
> The other side of the argument is that we have freedom of speech (within reason of course) and if people choose to be obtuse all the time then that is their right. The rest of the world can then choose to ignore everything they have to say. This is unfortunate because they have really great input on other topics!


@ Adrian

The thing that YOU need to understand is that using the F word chases people away.  Implying it is the same as using it. You should have been banned long ago for using vulgar language. SIES.

Insulting someone when you differ with their point of view also chases people away. It doesn't work with me though because I'm an adult with a thick skin. It's like water off a duck's back.

Anyway, even although you have sworn at me, insulted me many times , I do believe that you might change the way you interact with fellow brothers.

Google  " Debating for Dummies".  You might pick up one or two handy points to ponder.

I still love you, my brother.

Cheers and peace out  ...   Derek

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## adrianh

I have no interest whatsoever in what you have to say and I have nothing to say to you. 

Please refrain from addressing me!

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## Derlyn

> Please refrain from addressing me!


Your request is granted.

Could I then request that you refrain from responding to any of my posts ?

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## adrianh

I will respond to any post to anything I feel like.

GET OUT OF MY FACE!

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## Derlyn

> I will respond to any post to anything I feel like.
> 
> GET OUT OF MY FACE!


Goodnight, brother.

Sweet dreams.

Peace out   ...   Derek

PS   Sorry if I'm in your face. Just ignore it.

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## tec0

@ Derek, 

COVID-19 Coronavirus vaccine

COVID-19 Coronavirus vaccine myths and facts

Fake news - Coronavirus COVID-19

Regulations and Guidelines - Coronavirus COVID-19

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## adrianh

@tec0 - Don't waste  your energy on this!

This nonsense is no different to the rules related to kiddy seats in cars. To this day some people insist on their "right" NOT TO strap little kids into car seats because the law infringes on their "right" to to whatever the F they want - even when their inaction has the potential to kill innocents.

The law can't protect people from their own stupidity and by the looks of it nothing can protect innocent people from the stupidity of others!

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tec0 (06-May-21)

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## Derlyn

Don't suppose the self confessed speedsters with bags full of fines pose any danger to anybody.

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## adrianh

@tec0 - Look at these stats - makes for interesting reading.

https://www.worldometers.info/corona.../south-africa/

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tec0 (06-May-21)

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## tec0

> @tec0 - Don't waste  your energy on this!
> 
> This nonsense is no different to the rules related to kiddy seats in cars. To this day some people insist on their "right" NOT TO strap little kids into car seats because the law infringes on their "right" to to whatever the F they want - even when their inaction has the potential to kill innocents.
> 
> The law can't protect people from their own stupidity and by the looks of it nothing can protect innocent people from the stupidity of others!


I probibly rewrote that post that was to go with those links a few times. Was about the occupational health and safety act why it is important for both employee and employer. All that stuff. 

Here is the thing, I use to do work on a lot of industrial sites. See the moment people stop following the rules, the worst happens. People die in terrible horrible ways. But as you say you get the special few that believe they are above the law and beyond approach. The nice thing of being on a work place if contractors doesn't follow the rules there work is stopped there permits gets taken away and they are removed from the premises. See in the past a lot of lives was lost to situations that could have been avoided. This is why safety is so strict. 

Now i am not sure if the person that started this post is working for someone or for himself. I am not sure who the client/employer is.  

This is what we know.




> Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner rather than later .....
> 
> *So there I was at a Caltex in Beacon Bay alone in my car wanting to top up with R400 petrol.*
> 
> *I was denied service unless I donned a face nappy.*
> *I politely told the attendant what he could do with the petrol hose, drove half a kilometer further and topped up at Total, no problem.*
> 
> Caltex have now joined my list of businesses to be avoided in future for treating their clients like infants.
> Pick n Pay heads that list for trying to force me to push a trolley whilst buying a loaf of bread.
> ...


Not sure what he expected but the "Caltex in Beacon Bay" did the right thing here. 

See if i was asked to work with someone that does not want to use PPE i report them and have them removed from site. When a contractor came to my home to do some work, he used his PPE. He did a great job i was very happy to pay him and when he left i had all the papers i needed and he had full payment. This is great. But when a contractor set foot in my home without the correct PPE, i ask them to leave. Why? Because i am responsible, it is still my property. I have done this even before the pandemic. If something happens i can get into a bad situation so i rather just avoid it outright. 

It is all about accountability/liability and as many many contractors found out over the years it is better to follow the laws, rules and regulations then to go against it.

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## adrianh

I live in Cape Town and I'm yet to see anybody be obtuse about the whole mask wearing thing. People just don the mask and get on with their lives. I am yet to see anybody locally throw a tantrum about masks. We work from home so I get quite a number of visitors / customers / collections and courier companies coming by. Of course my two daughters and I also get Mr Delivery kinda food delivery quite often too - NOT ONCE have any of those people rocked up here without a mask and we always wear masks in the  in their presence (inside or outside the house) 

- maybe its a Cape Town thing - We just can't be bothered to be obtuse about such things.

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tec0 (06-May-21)

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## Derlyn

Circle jerkers doing their thing.    :Clap:

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## Derlyn

@ tec0

You must really be desperate.

When you post with a quote, at least have the decency not to alter the post to suite your agenda.

Nowhere in my original post was any one letter or sentence in bold text. That was added by you. Pathetic.

And if you must know ......   *I am the boss*. I decide* if* I want to work.  I decide *when* I want to work. I decide *who* I want to work for. I decide *how much* to charge. I decide *everything*, and I ain't short of clients. Hope that puts your mind at ease, seeing that you are so curious as to who the boss is.

I do not work on industrial sites. Period. I have turned down major contracts with Daimler Chrysler and Portnet.
Now you obviously want to know why. Let me once again put your mind at ease.

Quite simple actually. I do not need the "kroon" and I do not wear safety boots or a hard hat. I am your worst nightmare.

My existing clients are very happy with the service I provide. They are more worried about the quality of my work than what I wear.
Heaven forbid. In summer we even take off our shirts and catch a tan while working. This is the Eastern Cape, my brother. Why do you think we live here ?

Life is a bundle of cherries on my side, brother.

Dave, as the originator of this thread, I humbly request that it is now blocked.
I think I've made my point.

Thank you kindly

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

> Dave, as the originator of this thread, I humbly request that it is now blocked.
> I think I've made my point.


*Ultra big LoL.....*

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-masks-...istancing.html




> *Study shows masks, ventilation stop COVID spread better than social distancing
> *





> A new study from the University of Central Florida suggests that masks and a good ventilation system are more important than social distancing for reducing the airborne spread of COVID-19 in classrooms.
> 
> The research, published recently in the journal Physics of Fluids, comes at a critical time when schools and universities are considering returning to more in-person classes in the fall.
> 
> "The research is important as it provides guidance on how we are understanding safety in indoor environments," says Michael Kinzel, an assistant professor in UCF's Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering and study co-author.
> 
> "The study finds that aerosol transmission routes do not display a need for six feet social distancing when masks are mandated," he says. "These results highlight that with masks, transmission probability does not decrease with increased physical distancing, which emphasizes how mask mandates may be key to increasing capacity in schools and other places."
> 
> In the study, the researchers created a computer model of a classroom with students and a teacher, then modeled airflow and disease transmission, and calculated airborne-driven transmission risk.
> ...

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## Derlyn

I was not a pupil in a classroom. That whole gobblygook is about classrooms.
Read the first sentence over and over until it sinks in. Classrooms brother. Read again. Classrooms.

I was alone in my car.

Are you really that brain dead that you cannot understand the difference between being in a classroom and sitting alone in your car ?

You will have to try better than that, brother.

Lekker slaap.

Peace out  ...  Derek.

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## adrianh

wooooooooooooooooooosssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh......

HUGE ULTRA LOL....now that is truly funny!

Thanks man, you made my day!

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## Derlyn

Glad I made your day, brother.

Sleep tight.

Derek.

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## tec0

> @ tec0
> 
> You must really be desperate.
> 
> When you post with a quote, at least have the decency not to alter the post to suite your agenda.
> 
> Nowhere in my original post was any one letter or sentence in bold text. That was added by you. Pathetic.
> 
> And if you must know ......   *I am the boss*. I decide* if* I want to work.  I decide *when* I want to work. I decide *who* I want to work for. I decide *how much* to charge. I decide *everything*, and I ain't short of clients. Hope that puts your mind at ease, seeing that you are so curious as to who the boss is.
> ...


No, i just needed to show you what it is that you demanded from a business and if that was reasonable? See even you "the boss" must follow the rules that is set out for you. Why? Because if you don't and depending on your situation you may be held liable.

In your current situation you may not need any personal protection equipment but all the big companies that i deal with on a day to day base demands it. You will not get past security as simple as that. There is no room for negotiation when it comes to safety. 

Most electricians will tell you, it is the rules that keeps them safe. From the work they do, to the tools they use everything must be in compliance with the standards set out. I do see you are very upset now. That said when we where upset and heavy with loss. You did not mind to keep this thread going. Well here we are. 

As for me altering your original post. Adding your words in bold is hardly an alteration. But I will respect your request. 




> Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner rather than later .....
> 
> So there I was at a Caltex in Beacon Bay alone in my car wanting to top up with R400 petrol.
> 
> I was denied service unless I donned a face nappy.
> I politely told the attendant what he could do with the petrol hose, drove half a kilometer further and topped up at Total, no problem.
> 
> Caltex have now joined my list of businesses to be avoided in future for treating their clients like infants.
> Pick n Pay heads that list for trying to force me to push a trolley whilst buying a loaf of bread.
> ...


See you are the boss. So why did you expect "Caltex in Beacon Bay" to break every rule? Was that reasonable? Was your actions reasonable? Would you accept the demands from an unreasonable client?

See in the end, regardless if your clients are commercial and or private they expect a degree of professionalism. 




> Quite simple actually. I do not need the "kroon" and I do not wear safety boots or a hard hat. I am your worst nightmare.


No you will not be my or anyone's "worst nightmare" you will simply be denied entry. 

But i rest i need to do my 2 hour walk before i start my day. Funny how i use my mask even if i walk alone.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


Enjoy.

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## Dave A

> Dave, as the originator of this thread, I humbly request that it is now blocked.
> I think I've made my point.
> 
> Thank you kindly
> 
> Peace out   ...   Derek


I think the matters of substance certainly have all been teased out. There has been little new of real value for a little while now - mainly a trading of insults.

I've never been a fan of locking threads, but I believe this one is done.
Thread closed.

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Mike C (08-May-21), SCW (07-May-21), tec0 (07-May-21)

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