# Regulatory Compliance Category > Labour Relations and Legislation Forum >  LABOUR LAW ON ATTENDANCE REGISTER

## joanne.taylor

At my work we have an attendance register that needs to be completed.  Some of the employees haven't done this every day and now our employer has deducted those days off our annual leave days.  Is this legal?  We have monitoring devices in our vehicles so can prove that we have been at work all those days.  any advice out there?

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## Dave A

The HR part of me asks - *Why* didn't the employees sign the attendance register?

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## IanF

You won't forget to fill in the register again. :Big Grin:  I am sure you can speak nicely to your boss and offer never to forget to fill it in again. I insist that the attendance register is filled in. What the actual law is I don't know, but I always try and work from the base of reasonableness.

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## joanne.taylor

Well I think lack of interest as they all think it's a hassle.  For me its a question of why should I do it now when I never did it at any of my previous jobs.  But now we are sitting with this problem.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

The fact that your other places of employ never did as a reason is a rather poor way to look at. your present company is showing much better business practices. irrespective thereof, a compoany rule is a rule and must be obeyed. If the company takes no action then they may as well do away with the rule.
Time books or clock in systems can work both ways.
My position, as an employer, is that if a staff member takes up a position that filling in the time book is too much effort then they have no place in my organization - they either have a bad attitude or are skidding and dont want tracks :Fence:

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## Dave A

> Well I think lack of interest as they all think it's a hassle.


Eish!  :No:

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## adrianh

> For me its a question of why should I do it now when I never did it at any of my previous jobs.


...well then, if you don't like the rules of the current job then you should go back to one of your previous jobs.




> any advice out there?


I think your boss is g_tvol and is teaching you lazy lot a lesson, so my advice would by "Shape up or ship out"

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## AndyD

An attendance register or clocking-in system is normal company practice. As already pointed out the _'lack of interest as they all think it's a hassle'_ attitude is going to cost the employer in the long run and the employee in the short term (as they've already discovered by the sounds of it).

Vehicle monitoring devices are fantastic for assisting with the recovery of a stolen vehicle or preventing vehicle abuse but wouldn't generally be considered a reliable way to prove employee attendance.

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## BusFact

You will most probably have a legal leg to stand on if you can indeed prove you/they were at work on those days. However if you win that argument, you could still have to face a disciplinary enquiry for failing to follow a very reasonable instruction.

From an ethics side I agree with the previous posts. I would find it disrespectful if staff refused to follow such a simple and reasonable instruction. I may have dealt with it differently though. The fact that the instruction is not carried out reflects very poorly on the staff and shows an unprofessional attitude.

I would suggest they follow Ian's advice and talk very nicely to management, promising to correct their attitude.

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## adrianh

> We have monitoring devices in our vehicles so can prove that we have been at work all those days.



This is something that really bothers me. I will never allow a company to fit a tracking device to my private vehicle.

I do work for a company who has fitted the devices to the rep's cars. The reps use their own cars so the devices are fitted to their personal cars. The company can track the vehicles live on a map via the net. We were chatting the other day and they were telling me about the staff's driving habits after work in the evenings. When the managers have nothing better to do they watch where the staff go at night. The information is rather telling because they can see which clubs the workers frequent, how much time they spend there, who they visit etc. There is no way to stop management from doing so. One could argue that the tracking company shouldn't allow it but the problem is of course that companies need to legitimately track vehicles during the night...

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## joanne.taylor

I understand that my/our actions show disrespect and lack of professionalism in the work place.  Having said that, I think that professionalism and respect should also come from managements side.  This is not a one way street.  Employees will move mountains for employers who treat them fairly and with dignity.  In our office that is definitely not the case.  Have you ever heard of the word micro management?  Well that is exactly what is happening in our office.  I can easily go back to one of my previous jobs as they would take me back immediately.  I am good at what I do and have got a lot of pride in my work.  That is not the point.  Thanks to BusFact who agrees to doing it differently.

On the tracking side, I fully agree that under normal circumstances I would have refused to have skytrax installed in my private vehicle but was threatened that some privileges (that are in my contract) will be taken away i.e. my petrol allowance.  adrianh, you mentioned that managers check on after hours activities, well that is precisely what is happening with us.  The following day we must account for what we were doing and why we were driving to fast ect.  That is private and a serious invasion of privacy.

Should we as employees, just accept everything that gets thrown at us by our employers just because we work for them...I don't think so.

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## adrianh

I'm very vindictive and I'll screw them right over if I were you.

Joanne, I would suggest that you keep a mini video camera / voice recorder with you. 
There may come a time when their faces and actions need to be seen on Youtube & Facebook.

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## Dave A

> Should we as employees, just accept everything that gets thrown at us by our employers just because we work for them...I don't think so.


I'd at least pick my battles carefully.

Ultimately, if you're not happy, for goodness sake quit. Go start a business of your own and manage your employees the way you want your current employer to manage you.

Why should employees be accountable to their employers? Absolutely ridiculous  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## IanF

> I understand that my/our actions show disrespect and lack of professionalism in the work place.  Having said that, I think that professionalism and respect should also come from managements side.  This is not a one way street.


Always maintain the upper hand, if you are professional.  
You have what I see as a reasonable request so I would comply with it.
If you are unhappy with the request and fell strongly then you have the choice to resign, if it is not worth resigning over then accept it and speak to the employer nicely. 
Maybe you just need to vent, then I hope you feel better. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## joanne.taylor

Well thanks everyone.  I have listened to all your advice and sarcastic replies. Adrianh, I don't think I need to go to those extremes.... :Applaud:  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Dave A

> ...and sarcastic replies.


Sometimes text doesn't do justice as to where the poster is coming from. I don't know how many posts I've written up and decided not to hit the submit button because they'd probably come across as way too critical. Nearly didn't hit submit with my previous one in this thread either.

Joanne, are you in sales by any chance?

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## joanne.taylor

Yes I am in sales.

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## Dave A

Been with the current company long?

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## joanne.taylor

Relocated from JHB in April but it was a transfer from head office to East London.  The management method here is totally different to anywhere else I have ever worked.  In JHB I worked for two national companies were I worked from home so coming here and being micro managed was very difficult for me.  Use to being trusted and treated like a grown up.

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## scarborough.security

Hi. I would like to know the following. If I employ a person who has a temp assylum status, and I fire that person, does that person fall under the auspices of the South African Labour Act, and can that person take me to the CCMA.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

Yes. There is no such thing that "an unlawfull immigrant" is not protected by the LRA.
In addition, if a person does employ a person who is not lawfully present in the country, they are commiting an offence of a criminal nature, however your employee is not unlawfully here at this stage.

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## pinehill

> At my work we have an attendance register that needs to be completed.  Some of the employees haven't done this every day and now our employer has deducted those days off our annual leave days.  Is this legal?  We have monitoring devices in our vehicles so can prove that we have been at work all those days.  any advice out there?


Have a look at secton 31 of the basic conditions of employment act . The employer has to keep records of attendance. The request to sign on is compliance to this provision and must be adhered to .
The process to get compliance in this instance may be an is dependant on what has been done to follow up the employees failure to comply with the "rule" but the employees need to complywitht he rule to enable the company to fulfill the statutory requirement and be able to manage the business which includes time and attendance management.

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## Hannes Botha

I used to be a Logistics manager at a large manufacturing concern. From a Health and Safety perspective as well, you need to have an attendance register. Should there be a fire, for instance, how do you know how many are still stuck inside the burning building?

If it was me? I would've informed people in writing that this needs to be filled in. In my current company, bar certain exceptions, if you haven't filled in a leave form, you don't have authorized leave, I would've processed that as unpaid/unauthorized leave. Do you have to do what your employer wants? Well, if it's legal, and reasonable, you only have to do it if you want to keep working there.

Could he check your Skytrax to see if you were at work? Maybe, but I have more than enough to keep me busy than to check on whether or not my staff was working when they should be, after they neglected (mmmm...neglected...negligence) to fill in the attendance register as per my instruction.

Years back when I was still working as a semi skilled diesel mechanic. I had to sign a written warning, for not placing a service sticker in the door of the vehicle. The argument of "The customer can always check the mileage on the invoice" was met with a simple "He shouldn't have to..." Similarly: Can he check the Skytrax? He shouldn't have to.

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

See the attachment:
LABOUR INSPECTION.pdf

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## pinehill

> At my work we have an attendance register that needs to be completed.  Some of the employees haven't done this every day and now our employer has deducted those days off our annual leave days.  Is this legal?  We have monitoring devices in our vehicles so can prove that we have been at work all those days.  any advice out there?


Hi Joanne
Here is what the employer has to do in terms of the BCEA:
*Keeping of records : Section 31*

Every employer must keep a record containing the following information:
(a)	employees name and occupation;
(b) *time worked;*[/COLOR]
(c)	remuneration paid;
(d)	date of birth if under 18 years of age; and
(e)	any other prescribed information. 

If you act to make this legal compliance by the employer impossible  what alternative do you give the employer.
Misconduct, Insubordination.....
What do you think the impact will be on the employment relationship.....???
 :Bananadance:

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## marcestroh

I do agree with most of the post above. There are however a few things that need to be kept in mind in all Labour queries.

In most cases, where no actual law exists, the company's policies and procedures govern the situation. 

1. What does the Company Policy say about these attendance registers and the repercussions of not completing the register?
2. The correct procedure would have been to act according to the company's disciplinary procedures. In our organisation, for example, you would have received a written warning and, if i cannot prove by any means that you were at work, a leave day would have been deducted.
3. If you had a leave day deducted, you must be paid for this day. If not, it could be considered as unpaid leave. Again the company policy dictates the process to be followed.
4. Legally, a company is not allowed to deduct a leave day AND payment for that day. 
5. Attendance registers is not only to prove that you actually attended work that they, it also assists with Workmans Compensation Claims when someone gets hurt or a disaster hits. This attendance register then acts as proof of which employees were at work or on the premises when something happens - it assists with proving the liability of the organisation. If you did not sign in, and for example the building collapses and you get hurt, you will have a real hard time proving that the company should be held responsible for your medical fees (i.e. workmans comp claim) as the company can say you were not there for work.   

Unfortunately companies have turned to the carrot and stick approach with all Labourers in SA. The reason for this is because in most cases, being nice bites an employer in the bum at some point in time and the CCMA does not see being nice as just being nice, they pin it as the norm and rule. Therefore, in CCMA cases, consistency is key. What happened here is an employer has most probably lost a few fights with this attendance register not being completed and resolved to punish employees where they feel it most. 

As suggested before, have a chat to your manager and discuss the situation. Just be mindful that your manager has to act according to the policies and procedures of the company - within the law of course.

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