# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Escom doesn't care

## gombault

Escom doesnt care.
I developed a solar house lighting system. I have been manufacturing Led lights for years and decide I want to make a house lighting system that works. The first problem was voltage drop with low voltage Dc, as I didnt want to go the inverter root. 12V would have required a complete re wire of the houses lighting system with heavier gauge wire. I decided on 24V but no one made 24Vglobes for house application. I designed my own globes that fit in the standard house light socket and they are very bright. I also designed my controller with a backup power supply. I converted my house lighting to this system and it works very nice the lights are free and its not affected by load shedding I use my existing houses wiring and switches. I first approached the department of energy with my system and they referred me to Escom that told me its not Ac power and they dont know much about Dc power. I invited them to come and have a look at my house for themselves and see how much saving it can bring but they were not interested. Government wants to build 216000 houses this year each Hop/RDP house has 4 lights imagine the saving if only those lights dont consume any Escom power. I also contacted the Gauteng Government still waiting for a reply on a meeting. I also gone back to the department of energy requesting a meeting and ask them to include Escom in to this meeting, would like to hear from their side what the saving would be if all house lighting was solar powered. Or is it that they would not make money from it.

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Butch Hannan (02-Apr-14)

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## irneb

> Or is it that they would not make money from it.


Most probably.

That is what's the worst about any monopoly. They're unwilling to go with anything which might be better, especially if it means they might loose their strangle hold over their customers. It's nothing specific about Eskom, it's the same for ANY monopolistic organization - even including governments. If they don't have competition, they won't have incentive to provide better service / products.

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pmbguy (07-Mar-14)

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## Justloadit

@gombault,

I have already designed and developed an efficient LED module, 1W, 2W and 3W, which can work from 10.5 volts to 30V DC. The beauty of this design, is that no matter what the voltage is, it always draws the same amount of power! note Power, not amps. So for example, at 10V it draws 350mA from the source, at 20V it draws 175mA from the source, and the same lumens are maintained. The LEDs I use are 120Lumens per watt, and let me tell you that is bright.

These modules can be placed into any light fitting. I have not made these modules to have a bayonet or Phillip screw, as unbeknown to many consumers, they would purchase the "Lamps" and connect it into a mains socket. In fact there is a directive that states that certain globe holders are for certain voltages, specifically because of consumers and their lack of knowledge on the subject.

I have found from my experience, no one really gives a damn about you and your product, To make it out there, you have to knock on doors and sell the product yourself.

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newBix (07-Mar-14)

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## wynn

> no one really gives a damn about you and your product, To make it out there, you have to knock on doors and sell the product yourself.


Or pay the correct backhand to the official that is specifying the electrical connections to the RDP houses.

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## desA

Gombault & JustLoadit:

Why don't you folks each set up a full review of your developments & designs on a blog page. Keep the intellectual property tricks up your sleeve. I'd be very interested in knowing more. I'm sure a lot more folks would also find this very useful.

Things like costs, availability etc would be really useful.

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Justloadit (07-Mar-14)

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## Justloadit

Haaaaa, the same old problem, time to make up the pamphlets. 
I have set my mind to try and make a pamphlet a week. I got as far as taking a pic, and cleaning it up. Just need to get it into word and start creating the features and benefits then specs. I have done a few on my website www.simplelights.co.za

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## newBix

iskom don't have money. The reality of this colossal cluster fuck is that our only power provider didn't do proper maintenance due to demand and there addiction to money. iskom wants all the greens in the bank so they made sure that no other company can come and build there own stations and sell power to the public. and then the crap hit the fan when shit start to fall a part and is close to be beyond repair. 

iskom then figured ok how can we solve this? there answer an even bigger money pit called the NEW power station so now ishkom have withdrawal symptoms! they are cutting off anything they don't need so that they can feed the moneypit and themselves with money!

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## pmbguy

By default eskom has the money. Its more a structural/administrative issue that gets our collective knickers in a twist. Eskom... more like the fuck we cant kom!

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## desA

I understand that the technology used on the new power stations is a special European specification, which allows creep flow in the piping. This has presented the contractors with enormous QA/QC problems, leading to a huge number of failed piping joints. Once operational, these power-stations will spend most of their life moving in & out of operation, due to this complication.

My first view was that this technology may not be an appropriate choice for an African application.

More troubles on the horizon, it seems.

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## Justloadit

> More troubles on the horizon, it seems.


Do these characters know anything else?
Management by crises - no forward thinking applied.

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## irneb

> Management by crises - no forward thinking applied.


There's a book & movie which sums this up quite succinctly: Going Postal - by Terry Pratchet. Though it's probably closer to what Telkom does, but the same principle applies. The quote from that which sums this up: 
http://www.subzin.com/quotes/Going+P...to+provide+the

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## ELECT 1

Eskom is the only company that tells its customers to stop using their services

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pmbguy (13-Mar-14)

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## irneb

> Eskom is the only company that tells its customers to stop using their services


Yep, Wackhead did one of his pranks the other day: Phoned some lady telling her he was from Cell-C and that their network is overloaded, so he asked her to not make any calls for the day, else she'd be cut off for 2 hours the next day.

On the one hand it sounded far fetched, but when viewed in conjunction with Eishkom's blackouts & constant ads to reduce usage - well ... I can just imagine something like that (especially with data connections)!

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## ELECT 1

The government has banned the term "blackout" and replaced it with  PLA " previously lit areas."

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## AndyD

Am I the only one who feels some sympathy toward Eskom? They're bound and gagged by politics and with that in mind I think it's a miracle the lights are still on at all.

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## Justloadit

Will the miracle run out of power?

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## AndyD

Well I'm sure the ANC are praying it won't before the elections at least  :Smile: .

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## IanF

I just wonder what this latest round of no loadshedding is costing Eskom, sorry us in the next price increase.

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## irneb

> Am I the only one who feels some sympathy toward Eskom?


I fear you're alone there. AFAICT they've been pounding it very well without investing in upgrades / maintenance for years (or should that be decades). Now we're hitting the bottle-neck due to a "crisis" in capacity.

They were warned in the 90s that they weren't spending enough on accommodating the future growth, but we're "used" to that aren't we? It seems no forward thinking happens in SA ... and we seem to be very bad at crisis-management as well (at least bad at getting good results)!

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## wynn

> It seems no forward thinking happens in SA


The furthest forward any leaders need to think in this country is the next few weeks until after the elections when everything can return to 'full stop' for the next five years until the run up to the next elections.

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## irneb

> The furthest forward any leaders need to think in this country is the next few weeks until after the elections when everything can return to 'full stop' for the next five years until the run up to the next elections.


+1

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## Dave A

> Will the miracle run out of power?





> Well I'm sure the ANC are praying it won't before the elections at least .


As I gazed out at the distant hills and watched the lights go out in whole swathes on that blackout Thursday evening, the first thought that came to my mind was "every time this happens, JZ & Co are losing votes."




> They were warned in the 90s that they weren't spending enough on accommodating the future growth


Just to remind you, it was Eskom that was doing the warning. It was government (right up at cabinet level) that was doing the ignoring. Nailing down the arms deal was much more important...

So I'm kinda with Andy - it's certainly not all Eskom's fault.
At least up until the current power station build got started (what a friggin mess they're making of that  :Stick Out Tongue:  ).

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## irneb

> Just to remind you, it was Eskom that was doing the warning. It was government (right up at cabinet level) that was doing the ignoring. Nailing down the arms deal was much more important...
> 
> So I'm kinda with Andy - it's certainly not all Eskom's fault.
> At least up until the current power station build got started (what a friggin mess they're making of that  ).


Yep, it was employees of Eskom at the time who did the warnings. But apparently they were let go because they made these. So the current Eishkom is not the same company anymore, and that might also be a contributing factor in why their current station roll-out is going so poorly: the experienced manpower isn't the same as it was.

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## Justloadit

Like an old timer used to tell me in my younger days, when you are inexperienced, even your testicles get in the way with the action  :Smile:

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## AndyD

> .....Just to remind you, it was Eskom that was doing the warning. It was government (right up at cabinet level) that was doing the ignoring....


This was exactly my point, how much control does Eskom actually have over its own destiny? Eskom is steered by the minister of energy.....who's a politician. The infrastructure expansion program was always dependant on getting the nod from the ruling party but much of the earmarked funding for this was diverted to more _pressing causes_.





> it's certainly not all Eskom's fault.
> At least up until the current power station build got started (what a friggin mess they're making of that  ).


 Even with the new power stations the tender process and awards would have been steered by the minister ultimately. I'm not saying Eskom are without blame but I'm happy to believe they're not the main driving force that resulted in the position we're all in now.

TBH I hope the lights go out for weeks on end rather than just the odd day, it would certainly make the run up to the elections more of a spectator sport.  :Wink:

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## KristiKat

> Most probably.
> 
> That is what's the worst about any monopoly. They're unwilling to go with anything which might be better, especially if it means they might loose their strangle hold over their customers. It's nothing specific about Eskom, it's the same for ANY monopolistic organization - even including governments. If they don't have competition, they won't have incentive to provide better service / products.





> @gombault,
> 
> I have already designed and developed an efficient LED module, 1W, 2W and 3W, which can work from 10.5 volts to 30V DC. The beauty of this design, is that no matter what the voltage is, it always draws the same amount of power! note Power, not amps. So for example, at 10V it draws 350mA from the source, at 20V it draws 175mA from the source, and the same lumens are maintained. The LEDs I use are 120Lumens per watt, and let me tell you that is bright.
> 
> These modules can be placed into any light fitting. I have not made these modules to have a bayonet or Phillip screw, as unbeknown to many consumers, they would purchase the "Lamps" and connect it into a mains socket. In fact there is a directive that states that certain globe holders are for certain voltages, specifically because of consumers and their lack of knowledge on the subject.
> 
> I have found from my experience, no one really gives a damn about you and your product, To make it out there, you have to knock on doors and sell the product yourself.


yes I believe they KNOW of such engineering but won't utilize it because it would mean they would lose money...

such structures should be found unconstitutional, not providing people with affordable electricity and technology.




> iskom don't have money. The reality of this colossal cluster fuck is that our only power provider didn't do proper maintenance due to demand and there addiction to money. iskom wants all the greens in the bank so they made sure that no other company can come and build there own stations and sell power to the public. and then the crap hit the fan when shit start to fall a part and is close to be beyond repair. 
> 
> iskom then figured ok how can we solve this? there answer an even bigger money pit called the NEW power station so now ishkom have withdrawal symptoms! they are cutting off anything they don't need so that they can feed the moneypit and themselves with money!


blame it on the maladministration of the administrative law practice when it comes to controlling and monitoring organs of state..

just by the way, ESKOM is not a private company but a PUBLIC COMPANY owned by the government,

so who are they to strike deals with the government in anyway?

when they are subject to the law of the government itself.




> I understand that the technology used on the new power stations is a special European specification, which allows creep flow in the piping. This has presented the contractors with enormous QA/QC problems, leading to a huge number of failed piping joints. Once operational, these power-stations will spend most of their life moving in & out of operation, due to this complication.
> 
> My first view was that this technology may not be an appropriate choice for an African application.
> 
> More troubles on the horizon, it seems.


yep good point, 

and africa has too many people in anyway,

when there are MORE THAN ENOUGH people to provide for,

socio-economic rights should be applied and monitored more strictly,

but they don't care really,

the constitution is only there to sit on a shelf and look pretty....




> Do these characters know anything else?
> Management by crises - no forward thinking applied.


when they live in the moment self service applies before all....

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## KristiKat

> Yep, it was employees of Eskom at the time who did the warnings. But apparently they were let go because they made these. So the current Eishkom is not the same company anymore, and that might also be a contributing factor in why their current station roll-out is going so poorly: the experienced manpower isn't the same as it was.


the state wants everything,

question is did they actually have a choice to hand their company over to state control?

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## Dave A

> question is did they actually have a choice to hand their company over to state control?


Eskom has always been a parastatal organisation and accountable to the government of the day.

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## irneb

> the state wants everything,
> 
> question is did they actually have a choice to hand their company over to state control?


They were never a "company" before they got "privatized". That's actually the problem: Privatization never works without splitting the state owned organization into competitors. A fully state run service may be inefficient, but a monopoly is much more so! And the way SA's has gone (not just Eskom) is even worse, since these orgs are "private" and yet still under government stewardship. In which case when I say "Eishkom" I don't mean the employees (who are the company - all companies are but the sum of their staff), but rather their management - in this case the government (if not directly, then in effect). Which means you get the worst of both sides: government inefficiency added to monopolistic tendencies.

I actually think the privatization initiative is a form of smoke-screen. It was done so a scape goat could be used for these "stupid" decisions. WHEN it blows up in their faces, the politicians can shift the blame to the company to avoid some (at least) fallout on their own inappropriate choices.

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## gombault

If anyone wants to know more about our product or if you want to get involved in selling/ installing it in your area you can contact us by mail at celgo@eject.co.za  We can also arrange financing for this system  at much better rates than the banks. Our free solar house lighting system is actually completely free because you will subtract its cost from your electrical bill and you will never be without lights again.

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## Slow Blow

The problem with Eskom is that for every "White" (read qualified) engineer or artisan there are two black learners (apprentices?) attached to them at the hip so we now have 3 times the salary to fork out.
The reason that there are 2 learners is that through experience Eskom has learned that 50% of the "learners" end up dead from AIDS  :Oops:

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KristiKat (18-Mar-14)

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## Justloadit

> If anyone wants to know more about our product or if you want to get involved in selling/ installing it in your area you can contact us by mail at celgo@eject.co.za  We can also arrange financing for this system  at much better rates than the banks. Our free solar house lighting system is actually completely free because you will subtract its cost from your electrical bill and you will never be without lights again.


And what is the cost to maintain the system?

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## gombault

To install the system consists of replacing all your globes with our 24v globes that fits in your standard house lamp housing. You will remove your live and neutral wires from your Ac supply and connect them to our controller unit. The solar panels and batteries also connect to the controller. You will  use the existing house lights wiring and switches. The controller also has a build in power supply that’s only for incase of an emergency when you had rain for a long time. There is no maintenance required on the system but you might have to replace the batteries every 5 to 6 years.

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## Justloadit

Hmmm interesting, one of SANS regulations is that you will not mix low voltage and mains in the same DB box or conduit. All lighting is currently ending in the DB box, and in many cases may even be sharing conduit with plug wires.
Secondly if you are using lead acid batteries, and to keep your cost down then you will size the batteries for a full discharge in one evening, or close to it, you will be lucky if you get 400 cycles out of them. To last 5 or 6 years means you will over rate you battery substantially, increasing your capital equipment cost. Take a 100Amp battery, deep cycle type setting you back some R1300.00, does make a tidy some if having to buy 4 of them, then off course needing the solar panels to suite along with the controllers for charging.
Another interesting point is that Philip screws and bayonet fittings are designed for 220V systems, and changing this may cause unsuspecting users to plug in incorrectly made 24V globes into a 220V socket, and may injure themselves in the process, causing  civil litigation.

Off course maintaining the 220V circuits and using an inverter to make 220V for lighting has its own problems, especially with losses in the inverters.

Either way, there is no cheap solution.

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## AndyD

> Hmmm interesting, one of SANS regulations is that you will not mix low voltage and mains in the same DB box or conduit.


What you're calling 'mains' is actually LV (Low Voltage) in the regs. 24v would be classed as EVL (Extra Low Voltage). Apologies, I'm usually very conscious not to be the terminology police but in this particular case it might be misleading.

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## Justloadit

> What you're calling 'mains' is actually LV (Low Voltage) in the regs. 24v would be classed as EVL (Extra Low Voltage). Apologies, I'm usually very conscious not to be the terminology police but in this particular case it might be misleading.


Maybe I did not make myself clear here, but the 'mains' I was referring to is the 230V Live and Neutral cable which originally supplied the light circuit, would be changed to a ELV 24V line, however the termination of the conduit, and the original 230V wire are terminating in the 'mains' - 230V DB board.

I have also seen where electricians, have mixed plug circuit wire, and light circuit wire in the same conduit. Since both lines are running of 230V, this would not be an issue, however if the lighting circuit is now modified to the ELV, then there is a mixture of 230V 'mains' supplied cable with ELV 24V DC wire, and passing through the 'mains' DB box.

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## gombault

I don’t know of anyone sharing lights conduit wires with plug wires. I remove the light wires  live/ neutral from the Ac inside the DB BOX if that is an issue the lighting wire can be removed from the box and be connected to the 24V outside the DB Box. For my house I use 2x 105Ah batteries 4X 60w Solar panels. I have 13 globes in my house plus 6x day night lights for garden, hall and porch that’s on all night plus 4x bed lamps. I don’t know what you are talking of full discharge in one evening my batteries stay full all the time it’s only when we have wheatear like now that I switched the backup power supply on and I only had to do it twice in the last two weeks. The one battery in my system is now going for its 7th year and it is still working fine.  I don’t think there is a law against making a globe that fits in a 220Vsocket in fact you can buy a 12 volt globe that fits in a 220v socket from many china shops. The problem with 12v is that the voltage drop is too big when using the standard houses wiring.  I think you are trying to compare my system with an inverter system that is far more inefficient and costly.

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## Justloadit

> I don’t think there is a law against making a globe that fits in a 220Vsocket in fact you can buy a 12 volt globe that fits in a 220v socket from many china shops.


The fact that China makes it, and that you can buy it at the China mall does not mean that it is legal.
They are getting away with it right now because the sales are negligible, but when you start supplying thousands into the market, the amount of chances that errors are going to happen increase exponentially.

Removing the wires as you say requires complete removal from the conduit with the 230V. 
This means that you either run the wires on the wall or place conduit into the wall. Alternatively, you make all the connections in the ceiling before going into the DB box conduits.

Doing this yourself in your home gets you under the radar, but the day you want to sell your house, and require a COC, well that is adifferent story.

Also if you make a business about what you have mentioned, you must follow SANAS rules, or you will be taken out of business when the legislation catches up to you.

There is a difference between doing something yourself at home, and making a business of it.

Same as changing a plug socket at home, if you do it yourself, chances are no one is going to know about it, but now advertise that you can do this, and you are not a qualified electrician creates another set of problems.

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## Justloadit

> I think you are trying to compare my system with an inverter system that is far more inefficient and costly.


Of course the inverter has loses, what I was referring to here was to maintain the house wiring as is, and using the inverter to run the lights of the battery via the inverter. Since it is all 230V it will be acceptable in the regulations.

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## AndyD

> ........I don’t think there is a law against making a globe that fits in a 220Vsocket in fact you can buy a 12 volt globe that fits in a 220v socket from many china shops.


This is an interesting topic all on it's own. The 'cap' or the form factor of the base of a lamp doesn't determine what voltage it is although it's a commonly held misconception. For example the GX5.3 base which is commonly referred to as a 12 volt halogen can actually be 230v as well. Here's a bi-pin lamp that's 120 volt manufactured by Philips which certainly isn't a no-name generic. Regardless of the lamp holder or the lamp base you can never assume it's voltage I even came across a G5.3 halogen bi-pin lamp that's 82V.....never even knew 82v was a recognised lamp voltage. 

I've also learned the lesson the hard way when I replaced some 20 watt bi-pin lamps that came pre-installed in a hi-fi cabinet for a buddy of mine, I assumed there was a transformer concealed somewhere and that they were ELV, they were actually 230v and the result was a large bang as one of them exploded when the power was connected.  :Frown:

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## Justloadit

Hi Andy,

The lamps that you have indicated are specialized lamps for projectors, they are not easily available for consumers to purchase over the counter at a lighting warehouse/shop. In all likelihood, anyone purchasing these lamps is well aware of the application,,especially at the price they are sold for.

Now take Mrs Jones, who knows nothing about lamps, goes to the lighting warehouse, looks at the picture, likes the shape, but has no idea what the word voltage means,  she sees 24V DC, she simply recognizes the shape of the bottom of the lamp, it looks just like her incandescent lamp she wishes to replace.... can you see where I am going with this.....

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KristiKat (21-Mar-14)

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## gombault

Many new houses are now using transformers and low voltage down lighters (12v) that has the same connection fitting as the 220v down lighter. My globe could never be confused with an incandescent globe and its marked 24v Dc, people that don’t understand voltages also shouldn’t change globes. The lights wiring that come out of the DB board in all the houses I’ve seen is in its own conduit, removing those wires completely from the DB board is not that difficult for an electrician and if you can have 12V down lighters then you can also have 24V globes. If it’s a new house you also don’t take the lights wiring in to the DB board.  The problem with an inverter system is that it will trip if the voltage is just slightly low leaving you without lights. People selling these systems are trying to prevent that by using bigger batteries and panels that pushes the price up considerably.

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## Justloadit

> Many new houses are now using transformers and low voltage down lighters (12v) that has the same connection fitting as the 220v down lighter.


Incorrect in your assumption - the 220V down lighter has a different connector to the 12V one, you can not make a mistake with the incorrect lamp and holder.




> My globe could never be confused with an incandescent globe and its marked 24v Dc, people that dont understand voltages also shouldnt change globes.


I am not saying that there is confusion between your globe and a incandescent. What I am saying is that many people do not know what 24V means, and quite frankly there is no reason why they should know, if they have want to change the globe in there home to any other type of globe, they don't need to be a rocket scientist, they simply look at the holder and get a replacement, this is where the problem lies, using the standard 220V fittings available to make your 24V globes is not the right way to do it. As I have said before, doing a handful is not the same as having a fully fledged business selling to the consumers. There are laws involved, and if not followed will land you up in deep dire straights.

So you are telling me Mrs Jones needs to call in an electrician every time she needs to replace a globe? The real world does not work like this, and there is no reason that you have to be an electrician to replace a globe, This is the reason that there are regulations in place to ensure that lamps and fittings are installed correctly, so that anyone may be able to change a globe.




> The lights wiring that come out of the DB board in all the houses Ive seen is in its own conduit, removing those wires completely from the DB board is not that difficult for an electrician and if you can have 12V down lighters then you can also have 24V globes. If its a new house you also dont take the lights wiring in to the DB board.  The problem with an inverter system is that it will trip if the voltage is just slightly low leaving you without lights. People selling these systems are trying to prevent that by using bigger batteries and panels that pushes the price up considerably.


Removing the wires from the DB is what I had mentioned in my previous post, the only other way to getting round the removal of the light circuits was to use an inverter, and yes I accept that the inverters have their own inherent problems, one of them is the one you mentioned here.

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## irneb

> ...if you can have 12V down lighters then you can also have 24V globes...


Just an observation: The 12V "downlighters" you mention usually have their transformers close-by. So the power coming from the DB is still 220V AC, going into the "balast" (tends to be mounted inside the ceiling void, sorry balast is what it's usually called in the building industry) which converts it to 12V DC and then a short cable (usually 1 to 2 m) to the light fitting itself.

Sometimes you find a shared balast between several 12V's, though from my own experience on numerous large scale projects, more than 4 fittings per balast tends to be very unreliable - bulbs blowing within a month of replacing. This is even worse with fluorescent tubes, there I've NEVER seen any last long with shared balasts.

And anyway, the new tendency in large buildings is to go with LED's in any case. Though these are still installed in the same manner as the older 12V downlighters: 220V power from the DB to the transformer (sometimes forming part of the fitting itself). So from what I've experienced, I tend to be wary of ELV travelling large distances - you end up with lots of dips in power levels which in turn has detrimental effects on the equipment. The LED's seem to be more robust that the old halogen / neon / etc. fittings, but strange that the commercially available go even more with affixed transformers than the older types did - just saying.

The idea is great, and I understand that the bayonet/screw fitting is not restricted to 220V. It's just that from my experience, and what I can forsee if 12V / 24V / any other voltage is going into a 220V powered socket - it's going to blow up, and I can see this happening very many times. People tend to not read labels too much, if it fits they will think it should work.

Perhaps a simplified safety feature would be to add a notch on your fitting (glue a piece of plastic/steel on the side), then a converted light socket (i.e. powered with 24V) can have a slot cut into it so the notch slides in. This should be reasonably simple for the bayonet type and shouldn't cost much more (if any), the screw type may need some attention though - but I think a similar approach could help. And it would stop the tendency for people to simply stick something in and see what happens.

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## Dave A

Reading this, it seems the logic behind requiring different sized fittings for different voltages is inescapable.

Time that it is incorporated into a standard, perhaps?

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## AndyD

The lamp fittings with relation to the voltages has always been confusing and in some cases ass-backward. If you have a 12v lamp and a 240v lamp of the same wattage then the 12v version will draw 20 times the current that the 240v version does. So why on earth with halogen downlights would the far larger bayonett fitting (GU10) be the norm for the lower current model and the far less substantial bi-pin (GU5.3) with only 1.5mm pins be used for the higher current?

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## Justloadit

Probably came from an evolutionary process, where a specific lamp connection was used by a particular manufacturer years ago, and simply became the benchmark for the competition.

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## KristiKat

> Probably came from an evolutionary process, where a specific lamp connection was used by a particular manufacturer years ago, and simply became the benchmark for the competition.


i don't think they are concerned with competition,

they take the technology that is the baddest,

to make the best money.

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## Justloadit

> i don't think they are concerned with competition,
> 
> they take the technology that is the baddest,
> 
> to make the best money.


Not quite like that.
If I wish to become a globe manufacturer, and get presence in the market place, I have to compete with the existing manufacturers, and the only way would be price. It would mean that I would investigate to see what is the most popular fitting, and manufacture the globe to fit this fitting, making my item as cheap as possible for the user to purchase, without having to spend any money in replacing his existing fitting.This now creates a norm in the market, as more and more manufacturers enter the market.

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## gombault

I cannot see how my lighting system can confuse people. People will know that they have a solar battery 24CV led light system. If it’s a new house they will be told so by the seller, if it’s an old house conversion they will know because they paid for the conversion.  They will know when they had rain for a week the lights will not be that bright, they will know they can switch on the power supply for full brightness lights. The globes also have a life expectancy of 50000 hours so people will know within that time they have a different light system because during the next power cut they can see they still have lights. The reason for using the standard light fitting is cost and if someone mistakenly fit a 220v globe in my system it will not damage anything.  A warning can also be placed on the globe box that this globe is only to be used for the Celgo 24V lighting system.  The problem with 12V led down lighters is voltage drop as you mentioned.  I make a 24V 10W 140deg LED down lighter that’s far better than a 12V down lighter.

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## irneb

> I cannot see how my lighting system can confuse people. People will know that they have a solar battery 24CV led light system.


It's the other way round. People with the 24v conversion won't have any problems (at least not serious ones). But someone with the normal 220v in their house without your conversion, might pick up one of your bulbs and stick it into their sockets. Or are you going to vet everyone every buying your bulbs?

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## Butch Hannan

What would the cost be for a four bedroom house. I assume this only goes for the lights and not the stoves and geysers etc.

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## gombault

> What would the cost be for a four bedroom house. I assume this only goes for the lights and not the stoves and geysers etc.


Hi Butch
Yes this is for lights only.  The cost of a 15 globes house kit is around R15000.00Ex.                                                                                               This kit consists of the solar panels, batteries, and control unit with power supply, 15 globes and 6 x lamps on day night switch.  We can also arrange finance for this conversion that will cost you around R700.00 per month. You can send me a mail to celgo@eject.co.za and I will send you all the details.

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## Slow Blow

Eish, I remember when we had gas lights

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## Sparks

:Big Grin:  I will rather keep mum about what I remember :Big Grin:

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## Houses4Rent

https://www.facebook.com/16170648052...370775/?type=1

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