# General Business Category > Accounting Forum > [Question] Accounting Package

## AmithS

Hi Everyone,

What is a good cheap accounting package to get for a small business.

I have looked at Pastel Startup Express so far, it goes for R999 and R1000 a year in support fees.

It does most things, including VAT returns.  If you want payroll, etc... it is then an addon package with additional costs.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance.

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## Dave A

I like Quickbooks - no annual support fees. You'll have to pay (buy a new copy) to upgrade if you ever need to, but I'm still running on Quickbooks 2003 without any complaints.

There are a number of versions. You'll have to check the features to figure out which one you want.

The payroll module is a similar deal to Pastel.

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## IanF

Hi I use econoaccounting and love it. What I love is auto allocations and downloading bank statements direct ibto the package.

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## Chatmaster

If you are looking for a free accounting package you can also give Turbocash a go. It is working for many of our Bookkeeping business's clients.

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## shaun.b

Try Postbooks- http://sourceforge.net/projects/postbooks/
Very popular here in the US. 

Companies nowadays are trying as much as possible to cut costs on software, try and use as many open source products as possible. Specially on accounting, ERP and HR systems.

Whats best is that open source has all this free now.

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## Dave A

I think it is worth mentioning that VAT and GST require different accounting packages. Some of the software mentioned above has a VAT version and a GST version available. 

(The difference in price between the VAT and GST versions of Quickbooks has always irked me a little bit, but economies of scale and all that, I guess. Just have to live with it).

Anyway, the thrust of my message is check to see you are getting the appropriate package for the tax regime you are operating in.

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## AmithS

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your valuable input, i will check out the different packages.

Thanks again

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## SilverNodashi

I'll also vote for Quickbooks, especially if you're new to accounting. It's really easy to use and well worth it.

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## Chatmaster

Just a side note about Turbocash. It is completely South African supported and even have the functionality to connect to SARS and I recall them saying some of our banks as well. But it has a major problem with VISTA. It worked fine for a week or so on my computer then it stopped working. It has never failed on XP or older though.

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## AmithS

Thanks ChatMaster,

Can you do VAT quite easily on TurboCash ?

and does anyone know where i can get a decent tutorial for TurboCash

Thanks in Advance

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## AmithS

Hi Dave A,

Which version on Quick Books do you use, Startup or Pro ?

Thanks

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## Dave A

I'm using Quickbooks Pro 2003. I think there are some changes in terms of features for Pro nowadays, so the main trick is to find the package level that suits your immediate and medium term needs.

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## sgafc

If you have a fair grasp of accounting, Pastel is good. But for people whom lack accounting skills, Quickbooks is the best! Many times our clients who use Quickbooks, financial records would be incomplete, but we can put together some of the info, and still produce a decent set of books. My 2006 Pro(Accountants) version is user friendly(Time for an upgrade Dave), and very interactive, with its Q& A section, navigators and "interviews. The financial statement, however is not IFRS compliant, so rather speak to your accountant about a proper set of financial statements. But Quickbooks can produce all the necessary reports that your accountant can use.  :Smile:

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## Dave A

> (Time for an upgrade Dave)


The day is coming, to be sure. But as I have to get a minimum of 5 licences to match my current setup, there's going to need to be a compelling reason  :Wink:

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

> I like Quickbooks - no annual support fees. You'll have to pay (buy a new copy) to upgrade if you ever need to, but I'm still running on Quickbooks 2003 without any complaints.
> 
> There are a number of versions. You'll have to check the features to figure out which one you want.
> 
> The payroll module is a similar deal to Pastel.


QUICKBOOKS all the way. No yearly fee. You will probably never need support - it's that easy! Excellent reporting, smashing user friendly features.

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## ethan1066

cbsnw a contractor business solution really have a good accounting package..just visit this site and see their solutions ....
http://www.cbsnw.com/

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## QUINN

I have just fired my bookkeeper, and started using TurboCash. link

Its free and easy to learn.
Does anyone have any experience with this system?

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AndyD (14-Feb-10), tec0 (13-Feb-10)

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## AndyD

I use Simply Accounting. I only use it for generating bill of materials for a product I manufacture, apart from that I don't know much about accounting. I only know how to fumble my way around Simply because it's built on Accpac which was around before M1cr0s0ft products were an itch in their daddy's nether regions. My bookkeeper uses Excel and my accountant imports from there to Pastel.

Thanks for the link Quinn, I'm downloading TurboCash to give it a whirl for my bookkeeper.

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## jinxster

This is an oldish thread and I think last years prices were used or alternately another supplier.

Pastel Xpress 1 multi company user licences is R 1300 ex VAT or so (from Pastel).

To be honest since Softline has taken over Pastel and on more and more of their products I am afraid to say they are becoming increasingly devious and unethical.

Reasons, Pastel tell you to send your bookkeeper to a course (which is not free) and use intimidating tax clauses to frighten you into making sure this happens.

You send them then next year... Softline Recruiting phones them up and markets your employee's skills you spent money on to another company. Who needs to replace their bookkeeper who was placed somewhere else by Softline Recruiting as well.

Based on that principal, my advise is to avoid Softline completely.

On another note. Smaller businesses who really just need cash books can use accounting packages from their own banks. However most banks are still expensive (QWill is R99pm on the lowest option).

My vote is for TurboCash, Quickbooks, Omni Accounts (can work in 3 years at any given time of year).

Im not a big fan of SAP, however it is a good many site scale package.

My personal view for smaller business who use Pastel and Payroll / VIP ... rather use a pen and paper and fire your bookkeeper. They try to empower the employee more than the employer. When that happens... just get rid of em.

Why in Pastel should I be worrying about sales codes of staff if I dont even have licence for the business intelligence software? Some suppliers arent VAT registered and use invoice numbers that get used more than once, eg they use a Croxley duplicate book. Some persons use your account number as your invoice number. Pastel doesnt support this. Their business intelligence software is based on what they think is intelligent not on what you want, so you end up exporting to Excel and doing your own reports anyway.

And lastly.. why do they consolidate cashbook entries on a debit and credit basis. (Eg you got 100 000 debits and 30 000 credits so they post the 70 000 debit to your bank account... you say that is fine, but then why use computers, then we may as well use a pen and paper.

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## SilverNodashi

jinxter, I want to add to this. Quickbooks started edition cost R999 last time I check. I'm not an accountant but wanted to know what's going on in our books at any given moment. So when I started my business, I acquired quickbooks professional (to help with our stock keeping) and ran the books myself for a long time before I got an accountant to take over. The first accountant refused to work on Quickbooks and told me that unless I use Pastel my books won't be accepted by SARS. Well, she's lost the job  :Smile:  Another accountant told me that she'd be willing to try it so I brought her license as well and she's currently doing other company's books on QB as well. 

My main reason for QB back then is that out of all the options I tested, including Pastel; Quickbooks, TurboCash, Quicken, Omni Accounts, etc. Quickbooks was the easiest to get working and understand. I'm a developer by nature so I understand workflow very well, but not accounting yet I could get the books setup and it's been running for a lot of years with great success  :Smile:  We currently sell & support Quickbooks to many of our clients and IMO it's the best option if you don't have much accounting knowledge but need to manage your own books. Our accountant currently only checks the books at the end of the financial year and then sign it off (her partner is a CA) then send it in to SARS. We've had no problems so far.

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## Taxempt

Accounting packages are sometimes confusing. I agree completely with regards to Pastel. Pastel is aimed at people with an understanding of accounting and accounting principles. 

The only problem I have with quickbooks is the fact that anyone with access to the program can go back and change/alter data. From a security perspective it presents a risk. 

Thx,
Marius du Plessis

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## SilverNodashi

Marius, did you know that you can create a different user than the admin with more restricted access, for this exact reason?

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## Taxempt

> Marius, did you know that you can create a different user than the admin with more restricted access, for this exact reason?


I have quite a few clients using qb, some of them prefer older versions like 2003. Only at the end do I go through the work. I have yet to see a client doing it as you suggest. It might sound bad, but I am not there to train clients. I have to go through their work, rectify mistakes and then afterwards find out that they have gone and do other adjustments.... :Cool:  

Well, there is no such thing as a perfect accounting system

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## Dave A

> I have to go through their work, rectify mistakes and then afterwards find out that they have gone and do other adjustments....


You could set the closing date for the financial period you've finished with and lock it down with your own password  :Wink:

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

> Accounting packages are sometimes confusing. I agree completely with regards to Pastel. Pastel is aimed at people with an understanding of accounting and accounting principles. 
> 
> The only problem I have with quickbooks is the fact that anyone with access to the program can go back and change/alter data. From a security perspective it presents a risk. 
> 
> Thx,
> Marius du Plessis


this was a problem in old versions, about the year 2000 or so. You can now have different users and have large amount of control over what they can and cant do, including the ability to delete transactions.
I am a firm believer in QB - I have used AccPac, Brilliant, Pastel etc, etc. QB is the easiest to use, probably has the best reporting structures and is cheap. I always believed that sales of this package was a bit slow up until 3 or so years ago because a) accountants and bookkeepers recommend pastel(because they know it and are comfortable with it) and b) I believe sales people do not want to sell it because it is so easy that it is unlikely they will get much support work.

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## sgafc

As A Quickbooks nut, I still think it is the best, especially for non-accounting people/users.

The concerns with "tampering" is unfounded. Yes it allows you to change transactions willy nilly. But if the "audit trail" is scrutinised, all these changes are shown, with time and date of the change.

No software is perfect, so is an accounting package. Remember accounting bodies propose that information should be "fair", not ACCURATE. :Embarrassment:

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## Jacques#1

This is my 2 cents worth.....Pastel you gat cheap if you shop around.  I got mine from Software 123, and they deliver for free.  Around R250 cheaper than a Incredible corruption and R50 cheaper than the 2nd cheapest retailer I sourced.

I am a dumbass when it comes to accounting....On varsity I failed it yes, I am not proud but willing to share....a total of 6%.  Doing business a few years you pick up some knowledge, and when I started using Pastel I got it within a day and have been using it since.

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## Vicbowling

Does anyone know how Peachtree accounting compares with Quickbooks Pro? I'm just curious because I need to invest in some software for my business but I'm really in the dark about what to get.

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## Dave A

Given that this is a South African site, my first question was can Peachtree handle VAT?

 :No: 

Pity really - it looks like a nice product otherwise.

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## greghsa

If you are looking at Pastel try junkmail or bidorbuy for people selling second hand packages etc.

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## Martinco

> If you are looking at Pastel try junkmail or bidorbuy for people selling second hand packages etc.


Excuse my ignorance, but can you actually buy a second hand Pastel package ?

Is the license not unique to the original licensee especially if the original licensee upgraded to new versions ?  I donno ! :Confused:

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## greghsa

I purchased a Pastel Point of sale package recently from a client that went out of business. A new point of sale package would have cost in the region of R6k but I got it for R2k. The seller just needed to send Pastel a letter on a letter head to say that they have disposed of the package and the reason. Pastel then did a name change. Pastel tried to get me to upgrade to the latest version (which would have cost R700), but I was not forced to.

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## Martinco

I have subsequently contacted Neville Bailey from Double Entry Forum and his reply was as follows:

_"Yes, it is possible.

If the package has already been registered, then you need to get hold of Pastel and they will send you certain documentation to fill in, in order to effect the transfer of the registration from the seller to the buyer.

If the package has not yet been registered, then the buyer simply has to register the package in the normal manner."'_

BUT

If the package has been upgraded to a newer version by the original purchaser, the old package cannot be licensed. So just beware that you do not buy such a package. On top of this you would not know until you contact Pastel if the above is the case.
Sooo...... just make sure before you part with your money.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

At the risk of repeating myself.  For you guys and dolls out there using Pastel, please join the Double Entry Forum. The administrator is a VERY  knowledgeable person on Pastel and many a problem has been solved without having to spend hours on the phone to Pastel support. For the people that does not have support anymore ( at a  ridiculous price ) this is your answer and it's free.  :Thumbup: 
This is the site: http://www.doubleentry.co.za

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greghsa (04-Nov-10)

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## Neville Bailey

> At the risk of repeating myself.  For you guys and dolls out there using Pastel, please join the Double Entry Forum. The administrator is a VERY  knowledgeable person on Pastel and many a problem has been solved without having to spend hours on the phone to Pastel support. For the people that does not have support anymore ( at a  ridiculous price ) this is your answer and it's free. 
> This is the site: http://www.doubleentry.co.za


Just a slight correction - I have removed the link to my forum on my website for the meantime (I am trying an experiment for a while - details to follow in due course). However, if you wish to sign up to the forum, go to http://www.doubleentry.co.za/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl.

Of course, I am willing and able to assist anyone on this forum with their Pastel queries!

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## greghsa

Hi Neville, had a look at your website and forum. Can you possible advise what your pricing for support etc. I do not want to register etc. without knowing how much its going to cost eventually. I assume the forum is free but every now and then I have corrupt data and Pastel charges! Also do you do Pastel Payroll?

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## Neville Bailey

Hi Greg,

I have sent you a Private Message.

By the way, I have created an Interest Group for Pastel users - go here to check it out.

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## Peterpark

I have been using peachtree hosting and so far it has been good and productive in the sense that data can be managed online securely and its not limited to a particular site great.

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