# General Business Category > Marketing Forum >  Ranked #3 in Google!

## Norri

WOOHOO! My hard work has paid off! Just1.co.za is ranked #3 on Google.co.za for the keyword "website"!

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## adrianh

Good going.

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Norri (21-Apr-12)

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## Just Gone

Now I am even more confused about this ranking thing - I googled "website" and it came up 7th, then googled it again and it never came up!  I am also continuously trying to get my site up there with key words, every person you talk to they "guarantee" ranking up there at the top !  So how the heck does ranking work ?

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## Norri

Thanks adrianh  :Smile: 

Kevinb, try using Google Chrome in incognito mode. The results should be pretty consistent then.

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## Norri

Someone just pointed out my typo. It's not #1, it's #3. The forum heading was correct, the post itself was wrong :P Whoops!

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## Citizen X

Well done Norri! "I love when a plan comes together."

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Norri (21-Apr-12)

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## Dave A

Frankly the SERP I got is disturbing.

Just1 is no.3, sure enough and well played on that one, Norri. But check out the next few!



 :Confused:

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## Mark Atkinson

> Frankly the SERP I got is disturbing.
> 
> Just1 is no.3, sure enough and well played on that one, Norri. But check out the next few!


I picked that up to... I would go so far as to say a large majority of the people who offer websites and web design aren't optimising for the word "website" - I know we certainly aren't. It's too broad for my liking.  But hey, if it converts for Norri, who am I to argue.  :Smile:

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## adrianh

What is a SERP and why is it disturbing?

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## Mark Atkinson

SERP = Search Engine Results Page

It's disturbing because all the listings under Norri's site are totally irrelevant, *if* you assume that people searching for "website" are in fact looking for something along the lines of what Norri offers.  The listings below just1.co.za include Protea Hotels & Ushaka Marine World and Die Antwoord (wow  :Confused: ) - which to me shows that the keyword isn't as competitive as what some might think. Those sites are probably just ranking there because they've mentioned the word "website" a couple times on a page time and they are already established websites with a decent page rank/authority in Google's eyes. 

I'm pretty sure none of them has built an SEO campaign around the keyword "website"  :Smile:

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## adrianh

Ok, I see the problem. It is a bit like having the word "car" ranked 1st when you are trying to sell a BMW 645CSi.

I suppose one could argue that the point that Norri is trying to make is not that the particular keyword "website" is valuable or not, but that he is pointing out that he can get a very generic word right up there.

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## Norri

Hi guys  :Smile: 

Yep, the competition is lame. I'm certainly not making a fortune from this ranking but it is supplementing my income, so I'm chuffed. And with it having moved up from #7-9 to #3, I'm hoping the sales from organic searches will increase a bit as well. The rankings are new so I'll have to give it another week or 2 to see what its effects are on my bottom line.

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## Rod

Thats actually pretty amazing. 5 years ago, there must have been insane competition around the keyword "website". But now it looks like it's a decent keyword. So I say well done!

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## dfsa

I don't see you on first Page. I only see you on Page six, position 64. Maybe your site was doing a little bit google dance

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## Norri

Yep we lost some major rankings. I was trying out some new SEO methods with a new outsourcing company and, well, it backfired. I plan to claw my rankings back but it's not a high priority at the moment as I have other more lucrative lead generation tactics that need my attention right now!

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## dfsa

> Yep we lost some major rankings. I was trying out some new SEO methods with a new outsourcing company and, well, it backfired. I plan to claw my rankings back but it's not a high priority at the moment as I have other more lucrative lead generation tactics that need my attention right now!


Not sure what you tryed with the outsource company, but if it is not fake, you have a PR 4 domain there. You should not have a problem to be at No:1. Your top competitor is wiki and a few weak pages from authority sites. 

You have a landing page for a home page. It scream "I only want pre-sales leads here"  The first thing search engines see is the Huge pay button.

For viral traffic, YES. For SEO  no GO

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## Norri

Yep, it definitely shouldn't be an issue to get those rankings back. I just wonder if the ROI will be worth it. I'm focusing on affiliate-marketing currently instead as the ROI there seems to be more worth my while.

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## dfsa

> Yep, it definitely shouldn't be an issue to get those rankings back. I just wonder if the ROI will be worth it. I'm focusing on affiliate-marketing currently instead as the ROI there seems to be more worth my while.


There is nothing wrong with the sales page the way you have it there. You did the branding, have the urgency for call to action, you have testimonials, you have a screen shot of the product, you have a gaurentee in place.

I would suggest you have 1 or 2 more valuable bonuses. The Fax to Email is nice but not really fall into a bonus category.

For ranking in the organics, move this page off from your main page, and create an information page for ranking purposes. Record and  Make a screen shot video on the product. Embed that into the home page with links to the sales page. Post that video also on video sites. This in itself will boost your ranking as that will be strong links.

This way your ROI total will be much better and you get your traffic from all avenues. Your list marketing, send them straight to your sales page.

I would even go as far as to have my txt robots block search engines from seeing the sales page. In that way you can do anything on your sales page and you will not get ranking penalty's if there is something on the sales page that the serps don't like.

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Dave A (24-Jun-12)

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## Norri

Yep, I know. Trust me that page has made me over R288,000 in sales! I know it's good! It took a lot of tweaking to get it there but it was well worth it.

My point is that I'm moving away from my old methods of lead generation (SEO) and towards new methods of lead generation (affiliates).

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## dfsa

Why move away from one easy low cost method, if you can deploy all.

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## Norri

dfsa, how low-cost it is is arguable. I have 900+ clients I can use as affiliates for free right now. SEO, on the other hand, will cost me in outsourcing writing, outsourcing back-linking, etc. So while I absolutely intend to get my rankings back, my short-term (ie: this month) focus is on my affiliates.

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## Norri

And it's worth noting that being #3 for "website" never really got me any significant sales. Sure I got some sales but it's not a money-word. It's not something people type when they're wanting to scratch an itch. I'm better served focusing my time on keywords with a higher propensity for turning into sales. They'll also be a lot easier to rank for.

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## dfsa

I see what you mean. One question: How are you going to get your affilliates to make sales?

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## Norri

I'm assisting them with marketing material like banners and an email template and I offer 50% commission.

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## dfsa

> I'm assisting them with marketing material like banners and an email template and I offer 50% commission.


That is good and already better than many other affilliate programs and with a good commission structure. 

My question now: The affilliate have banners, email follow up script---- What now? Do you suggest to them to sell to their friends and family like 90% of companies out there do?





> And it's worth noting that being #3 for "website" never really got me any significant sales. Sure I got some sales but it's not a money-word. It's not something people type when they're wanting to scratch an itch. I'm better served focusing my time on keywords with a higher propensity for turning into sales. They'll also be a lot easier to rank for.


I don't agree with the statement above. You have been in the third spot, now it was a matter to keep it there. Your landing page for that keyword is the reason you made no sales. You could have multiple services and products available on the landing page. If I am correct you do offer hosting, sell some ready made templates, sell your website building services. Don't make it sales pages, grab the attention and then send them to the various sales pages.

The cost to be on No: 1 for that keyword. Well let me rather put it this way. There is no real competing pages.

To say it is not a money keyword is also not 100% correct. It is a numbers game. Key Phrase: ( I want a website now ) Good money keyword, but dang nobody search that keyword. Just an example.

Website is already targeted, but it has a wide range, your landing page must cover a good portion of the range. Even if you only use the keyword to add prospects to your list.

Looking at this and seeing that you don't want to go after the keyword, I think I should go for it.

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## Norri

Hehehe, maybe you're right. I HAVE been considering re-working the front page to be more "modern" and less "salesy". I actually have a work in progress replacement page that I was going to split-test to see which converted better.

I appreciate your feedback on this thread, it has given me good food for thought and you have quite possibly changed my mind about this.

Thanks for the kick in the arse - I appreciate it a ton!

Regarding the affiliates, yep initially I suggested they market to their friends as 90% of my clients really have little to no idea of how to do affiliate marketing. I hope to set up an affiliate marketing education program for them but that will take time unless I can find a PLR source for the info.

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## dfsa

Split testing. Initial testing in your case should be eazy ( No need to let it run for Months). You have over 900 people in your list. Put up 3-6 different pages, then do a poll by asking your members to vote the pages from 1 -6. Offer them a freebie for participating. From there you take the 2 top pages and turn them into a futher split test for a Month or Two. If it convert 60-40 then build 2 websites and host them on diffirent servers, still going after the same keywords.The possibillity's are endless

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Norri (25-Jun-12)

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## Mark Atkinson

> I don't agree with the statement above. You have been in the third spot, now it was a matter to keep it there. Your landing page for that keyword is the reason you made no sales. You could have multiple services and products available on the landing page. If I am correct you do offer hosting, sell some ready made templates, sell your website building services. Don't make it sales pages, grab the attention and then send them to the various sales pages.
> 
> The cost to be on No: 1 for that keyword. Well let me rather put it this way. There is no real competing pages.
> 
> To say it is not a money keyword is also not 100% correct. It is a numbers game. Key Phrase: ( I want a website now ) Good money keyword, but dang nobody search that keyword. Just an example.
> 
> Website is already targeted, but it has a wide range, your landing page must cover a good portion of the range. Even if you only use the keyword to add prospects to your list.
> 
> Looking at this and seeing that you don't want to go after the keyword, I think I should go for it.


I don't agree with this.

"Website" on its own is far too broad a keyword. Ranking for "website" isn't going to help you unless you're ranking for much more targeted variations. There is not really any commercial intent associated with that word on its own. 

The conversion rate will likely never be as high as it would when visitors are coming from a more targeted keyword. 

I'd much rather visitors find me using the keyword "web designer in Durban" than the word "website", because those visitors will be far more likely to be the ones actually looking for what I have to offer.

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Norri (25-Jun-12)

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## Norri

Mark, I tend to agree with you and it's normally the way to go but I think what dfsa is saying is, "why not?" If you can (fairly easily) rank #1 for "website", why not? And seeing as I've come so close before, with not that much ongoing effort (I put in about 3 month's effort to get that #3 ranking) I can see his point.

That's to say that, I think you're right, more targeted keywords will yield higher conversions but it may also be worthwhile to just rank #1 for "website" as well. One thing I've always liked about being ranked highly for that keyword is it gives me INSTANT "proof" whenever I want to sell SEO.

Thanks dfsa, I like those strategies and can definitely implement them. Solid ideas  :Smile:

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## dfsa

> I don't agree with this.
> 
> "Website" on its own is far too broad a keyword. Ranking for "website" isn't going to help you unless you're ranking for much more targeted variations. There is not really any commercial intent associated with that word on its own. 
> 
> The conversion rate will likely never be as high as it would when visitors are coming from a more targeted keyword. 
> 
> I'd much rather visitors find me using the keyword "web designer in Durban" than the word "website", because those visitors will be far more likely to be the ones actually looking for what I have to offer.


Mark, I think you miss the plot a little here. "Website" is broad, yes, but there is not strong competition at this stage, so ranking for that keyword in the top spot and finding what can raise the conversion is first Goal. In the mean time, you rank now for that broad keyword, this in turn will assist to rank for the long tail phrases in itself. G already see your site now as authority and when you move to the money phrases you do not have to work that hard to get them ranked.

Another nice challange with "website"  the exact search  count is good. Now why would people search that. The trick is to find out and then offer them what they want. Yes conversion rates for money phrases are much higher, but when you find the ? for the single keyword. You will not look back

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## dfsa

> One thing I've always liked about being ranked highly for that keyword is it gives me INSTANT "proof" whenever I want to sell SEO.


I like your thinking there.( SEE SOME PROOF WHAT WE CAN DO ) and put a Search screen shot on your sales page. Gaurentee your conversion on your sales page will step up a few %

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## Mark Atkinson

By the sounds of things, you guys are saying "If I happen to rank for that keyword, then cool, it can't hurt," and that pattern of thought is perfectly fine *if* you have put in no effort to rank.  

Having looked at the website and followed Norri's comments over the past while, it doesn't seem as though that is the case (could be wrong) - hence my comments. It looked like the links and the website were specifically optimised for the word "website" and, should that be the case, then your thinking is a bit flawed because you would get a far higher ROI by having optimised for more targeted keywords with commercial intent.

My opinion is that you start with the long tail and then end up with the broader keywords as a matter of natural progression, not the other way around. Although in our industry, it could be said that the "long tail" keywords are the more competitive words for that same reason.

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## dfsa

I basically answered the reason for the drop in ranking here:




> Not sure what you tryed with the outsource company, but if it is not fake, you have a PR 4 domain there. You should not have a problem to be at No:1. Your top competitor is wiki and a few weak pages from authority sites. 
> 
> You have a landing page for a home page. It scream "I only want pre-sales leads here"  The first thing search engines see is the Huge pay button.
> 
> For viral traffic, YES. For SEO  no GO



Before penguin update, Norri was ranked at No:3  After Penguin he dropped to No: 66

If G found him to have done any sort of spam SEO they would have de-indexed him. In this case they only dropped his ranking. The penguin update is reasonable clear that they want to see valuable content and not a end out sales pitch. Norri's huge pay button is the first thing the search engine see. So in short rank with an good unique content information page and link internally to your sales page. Any traffic other than organic, you can send directly to your sales page, but for the serps stay away from trying to rank your sales page.

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## Rod

I have been reading up and I don't think Google would de-index him. They would just make the value of all spammed links, worth absolutely nothing. Thus the huge drop.

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## Rod

Other wise it would be too easy to sabotage your competitors by adding them to link directories.

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## Mark Atkinson

> I have been reading up and I don't think Google would de-index him. They would just make the value of all spammed links, worth absolutely nothing. Thus the huge drop.


100% correct. Google doesn't penalise the sites, they penalise the links to the sites. For the penguin/panda updates anyway.

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## dfsa

> I have been reading up and I don't think Google would de-index him. They would just make the value of all spammed links, worth absolutely nothing. Thus the huge drop.


Correct most sites just got punished and had a drop in ranking.

G did de-index 100 of thousands of sites after penquin if they found the sites linked to link farms, and sindication blogs. Many sites that was connected to the spam sindications got de-indexed also.




> Other wise it would be too easy to sabotage your competitors by adding them to link directories.


This question was posted to Matt Cutts. They are looking out for any spam fast linking tactics and they ignore that. G is looking intoi adding a tool in webmasters so that site owners can remove these links and not having to contact the sites where the links was posted.




> 100% correct. Google doesn't penalise the sites, they penalise the links to the sites. For the penguin/panda updates anyway.


G always devalued links comming from dodgy low quality sites. They just stepped up the penaltys to be more severe. If you have too many of one type link, then they penalize your site. They want diversity.

I did do a quick look at Norries link profile on his site and he has around 1200 links, so he did not go out there and spammed. He do however have a good number pointing back from his other sites and from his article directory. It is possible that he got penalised for ip spam. I did not check up on that.

I also looked at only his top competitor and this site has for sure been spamming a little. This site has over a 6000 link profile. Most sites is not relevant and he has an enormous amount that come from blogspot and non english language. ( So Maybe G like you to spam their own link farm)


An interesting TOPIC would be: Why do goolge all of a sudden put high value on social signals.? This would be a good debate.

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## Dave A

> An interesting TOPIC would be: Why do goolge all of a sudden put high value on social signals.? This would be a good debate.


For those interested, that debate has been moved here.

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## vieome

Well Norri to sum it up, it seems a good place to promote your site is to start on social networking sites

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## dfsa

> Well Norri to sum it up, it seems a good place to promote your site is to start on social networking sites


Correct thinking vieome, what do you think is he doing in the forum. This is being social. Next Norri must put up a facebook fan page. Social, is time consuming, but much targeted and easier to convert into sales.

Having his page on No:1, well much more hands free and automated.

Imagine Dave A go on a Four Week holiday stint without his laptop.. This forum will come to a stand still. Social, you must keep at it consistantly.

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## Dave A

> Imagine Dave A go on a Four Week holiday stint without his laptop.. This forum will come to a stand still.


Hopefully not. I think we're well past that stage here.

Nice to know you'd miss me though  :Smile:

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## Norri

I'm definitely working on the social side of things. I'm slowly building up our Facebook and Twitter presence and will be nurturing those in the future. We have 500 fans on Facebook and, as of recently, 500 Twitter followers. I'm growing that up to about 2,000 each before I start actually promoting. I want to first add lots of value and become a trusted resource on Facebook and Twitter.

Actually currently my Facebook page has been quite dormant: www.facebook.com/just1.co.za
But Twitter is being carefully nurtured: www.twitter.com/just1za

I think we're getting there.

In other news, I just got off the phone with a potential partner who will be helping me with Just1 in return for 25% of the profits. Exciting times ahead  :Smile:

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