# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  No earth wire!

## Dave A

We're finding a *lot* of this - no earth wire!
Mostly in light circuits, but every now and then...



Who needs an earth wire to a socket outlet?

Or even the geyser (as long as it's bonded to *something*, right?)



Just an earth line between the geyser earth point and the water pipes - I kid you not.

Pretty tempted to hunt down whoever issued the COC for the original installation on this one.

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## AndyD

The socket looks like DIY, either that or a complete tosser. They've used a surface mount backbox in a flush mounted installation and it looks like they might have used singles house-wire buried straight in the plaster. Also there's no screws holding the backbox in place, they must have just plastered around it and the cable entry hole looks like it was made with a kitchen knife or something similar. 

The geyser also looks like housewire buried in the plaster and no sign whatsoever of an earth wire in the supply and is that a tape joint shortly after it comes out of the wall? Isolator....nahhh why bother. Geyser tray as per regs......nahhh also obviously not necessary. That bonding wire ring terminal looks like it was fitted with a hammer and chisel which in itself is no mean feat with a 4mm lug.

Okay, enough commentary, now lets get down to the serious business of the scoring.

Category 1, Aesthetics. 
The missing isolator and earth wiring give the installation a minimalist feel which is very fashionable at present. Look I'll grant you he's no Frank Stella or Yves Klein but the clean lines and lack of clutter by leaving the earth out of that socket is giving the nod toward the cubist movement and their complete rejection of inherited rules and values so, for a delicate combination of art, philosophy and electrical installation I'm giving him a 9 in this category.

Category 2, Danger.
Housewire buried in shallow plaster, complete lack of CPC's...not just unconnected....completely not there at all, tape joint and no isolator are all elements of a complete symphony that gets the heart racing and really delivers from beginning to end. From a danger point of view this little offering packs a punches way above its weight and leaves you begging for more so it's an 8 from me.

Category 3, Overall Message.
Overall the set up shows a strong and unyielding middle finger to all things health and safety. Whilst the highly visible dangling earth wire was a nice touch and the in line tape joint is always a crowd-pleaser I'd have preferred that some of the other little gems were generally more visible to casual observers without the 'use of a tool'. The fact that they're all concealed in a backbox or above a bulkhead ceiling in this particular case kinda dilutes the H&S 'fuck-you' somewhat; hence the less than perfect score in this category. Only a 7 from me I'm afraid.

Conclusions.
Overall score of 8/10 is very respectable, great effort and not without style and a certain bravado. Definitely an installer to look out for in future as I can only see great things coming from here on in.

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## tec0

that is nothing.... LOL 

I wish i had a camera back in the day... in my days as contractor i saw a electrician using a hammer drill hammered a cavity placed the wire "normal electrical wire that you will find on a toaster" into the cavity running from the ground the roof. Now i don't know how it was connected up there but i recall he just plastered over the electrical wire.

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## kosmonooit

At a site I was doing LED conversions at (and had to crawl in the ceiling) I found that some random Air Con installers had connected their power cable to a random Plug circuits and diverted the ECC there, so the Earth did not go to the plugs! Generally wiring in ceilings is such a mess, security and CCTV installers add to the havoc - bad practices, no training, no supervision, ...? 

In terms of lights, fittings do not need to be earthed if they meet certain conditions, one being out of arms reach from the floor,

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## AndyD

> ........In terms of lights, fittings do not need to be earthed if they meet certain conditions, one being out of arms reach from the floor,


Can you give the appropriate regulation to back that up please?

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## kosmonooit

> Can you give the appropriate regulation to back that up please?


SANS 10142 

6.12.3.2 The following conductive parts do not need to be earthed:

b) exposed conductive parts of fixed electrical equipment that are
1) out of arm's reach from the floor (or walking) level,
2) out of arm's reach from a structure that is bonded to earth, and
3) not exposed to the weather or to the condensation, dripping,
splashing or accumulation of water, and
4) not touching a conductive surface;

and/or

6.14.4 Lamp holders
6.14.4.1 A lamp holder shall be shrouded in insulating material or shall
be earthed, unless it is simultaneously
a) out of arm's reach from the floor or walkway level,
b) out of arm's reach from a structure that is bonded to earth,
c) protected from the weather and the splashing, dripping, or accumulation
of water, and
d) not touching a conductive surface.

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## AndyD

Would you call this a lamp holder;  or this?

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## kosmonooit

Its a luminary and if its out of arms reach from the floor & structure bonded to earth, protected from weather / splashing etc and not touching a conductive surface it does not need to be earthed.

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## bergie

out of arms reach from your scaffolding or steel ladder. lol
that rule should have been taken out long ago. i fail everything not earthed properly regardless of what the book says.

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## bergie

category 4: speed of installation

save on labour costs 9/10

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## kosmonooit

> out of arms reach from your scaffolding or steel ladder. lol
> that rule should have been taken out long ago. i fail everything not earthed properly regardless of what the book says.


Then it could be said you are applying your personal opinions and not the regulations? that could be a problem in a number of ways.

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## Dave A

> In terms of lights, fittings do not need to be earthed if they meet certain conditions, one being out of arms reach from the floor,


One of the problems we're finding is that "under certain conditions" has been extended to "light circuits do not need to be earthed at all" in far too many installations. A recent one we tested had metal wall light fittings within arms reach all over the place, not one of which was earthed. And despite being wired in surfix, there was no earth wire available at the light point because the earth wire had been neatly cut back.

Talking of earth and surfix, here's another classic -



They're right there - waving at each other. Why clip them back like that? Just join them for crying out loud.
Oh yeah - you can't just twist them together, so snip snip - much quicker.

And even if the light point is out of arms reach, there's nothing quite like wanting to replace a light fitting with a ceiling fan & light (particularly where the ceiling is a concrete slab), and discovering there is no earth available at the light point.

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## bergie

> Then it could be said you are applying your personal opinions and not the regulations? that could be a problem in a number of ways.


 i will probably get myself in trouble by making statements like that. if the regulations say " do not earth it" ,it is different to "there is no need to earth it"
i'm not going to earth something that is double insulated , but i always earth steel lightswitches with plastic covers and plastic screws or light fittings out of arms reach.

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## AndyD

The regs don't permit luminaires or light fittings not to be earthed, the only mention the lamp holders.

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## Leecatt

> One of the problems we're finding is that "under certain conditions" has been extended to "light circuits do not need to be earthed at all" in far too many installations. A recent one we tested had metal wall light fittings within arms reach all over the place, not one of which was earthed. And despite being wired in surfix, there was no earth wire available at the light point because the earth wire had been neatly cut back.
> 
> Talking of earth and surfix, here's another classic -
> 
> 
> 
> They're right there - waving at each other. Why clip them back like that? Just join them for crying out loud.
> Oh yeah - you can't just twist them together, so snip snip - much quicker.
> 
> And even if the light point is out of arms reach, there's nothing quite like wanting to replace a light fitting with a ceiling fan & light (particularly where the ceiling is a concrete slab), and discovering there is no earth available at the light point.


Nice picture, I assume that you do realise  that the use of "twist ties" is also illegal.

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## tec0

Yesterday, i went to look at a piece of land, because i want to start a small "farm" it is a startup i have been planning on doing for some time. Now the owner got the land from "a successful land claim" and all his animals are all but gone... Now due to this epic fail he is looking to rent the land out and since my roots go back to that type of thing, i figured to give it a go. 

When I was on the property i noticed that most of the pumps where down and basically there is no water running. Now the history of the land and "if you know where to look" i found lots of water, it is there and tests say it is safe. But my word! there is not a single trip switch to be found on the property... "everything is live" and it is scary!" most of the wiring is insulation tape and block connectors... That is it... Now I will put up some photos when i start "renting" the land will get a electrician out. But damn... it is just nuts... 

Now what p!$$es me of frankly is that home owners must jump through hoops! And we must pay fines and penalties and all kinds of crap... But this is ok somehow? I phone the municipality they will come and to a inspection and if it is going to cost to much to get it up to code i will terminate our lease agreement. The agreement states outright POWER and WATER will be functioning and maintained by the LAND-LORD. Now if this guy thinks i will be happy with how things are now... He is about the have a rude awakening...

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## Dave A

> Nice picture, I assume that you do realise  that the use of "twist ties" is also illegal.


Sometimes a picture says so much -

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## tec0

> Nice picture, I assume that you do realise that the use of "twist ties" is also illegal


Care to elaborate on that? I am just asking because when i got the contractor in to replace all the lights in my home, "twist ties" was the norm" They are all gone now but somehow the guy that did the first COC didn't mention it and he cost me a lot of money to date and I would love to know more because this will be yet another thing he overlooked. 

My home is up to code now but it cost me a small fortune....

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## kosmonooit

> The regs don't permit luminaires or light fittings not to be earthed, the only mention the lamp holders.


I was under the impression a lamp holder / light fitting was a luminaire?

(as defined)

3.48
*luminaire*
appliance that distributes, filters or transforms the light transmitted from
one or more lamps and that includes all the parts necessary
supporting, fixing and protecting the lamps but not the lamps themselves,
and, when necessary, circuit auxiliaries together with the means for
connecting them to the supply.

NOTE A batten lamp holder or a lamp holder suspended by a flexible cord is a
luminaire.


Also the regs says fitting don't have to be earthed if they meet certain conditions, as I posted above, its the same applied for light fittings surely I dont see anywhere where it says all luminaires must be earthed.

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## DieterT

> The regs don't permit luminaires or light fittings not to be earthed, the only mention the lamp holders.


*Andy*, is it possible you are maybe getting confused with *discharge* luminaries?




> i will probably get myself in trouble by making statements like that. if the regulations say " do not earth it" ,it is different to "there is no need to earth it"
> i'm not going to earth something that is double insulated , but i always earth steel lightswitches with plastic covers and plastic screws or light fittings out of arms reach.


*Begie*, +1 to that. Even if it is a plastic box with a plastic switch and I used GP wires and not a 2core + earth I would pull in an earth wire. Reason for this, what happens if that client has a steel switch installed. He'd be cursing your name for a while to come. Just thinking ahead some.

*Kosmonooit*, I completely understand where you coming from.
Unfortunately we live in an economy where everyone is trying to save a few rather than thinking ahead at the consciences and making more long term investments. Maybe it's just the hazardous locations training that made me more paranoid, but one has to look beyond the basic installation. I would rather offer a defense in court saying I did more than I was suppose to than saying I did the bare minimum, because you will always be questioned on your choices you made.

But all and all, earth continuity should always be considered as with where an earth conductor is cut off/back or wrapped not properly connected also with metallic objects with live conductors. Remember, the earth is the main form of protection. When doing the earth resistance and continuity of bonding tests, that includes light fittings, light switches, conductive surfaces (which could become live due to a fault) that the resistance should be withing the required limit as to enable protection.

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## kosmonooit

Thanks Dieter I am just quoting 'the book' having made an attempt to memorise it, and the subject of earthing lights did come up for discussion in our classes at P&T.

I have been doing domestic LED conversions using those GU10 fittings from those horrible 12V transformers that sit it the roof. Those things are a real fire / safety hazard, the get so hot the melt wires and fittings (see pic). Have seen some that are earthed, others not, but never the fittings as such. One does get a GU10 adapter with provision for earth, but if the fitting is non-conductive, there is no point really?

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## AndyD

I'm not getting confused with discharge luminaires....well not as far as I know at least.

My understanding is that generally a 'lamp holder' is not a 'luminaire', it's a part of the luminaire that the lamp actually inserts into. These are lamp holders;

The only time a lamp holder on its own would qualify as a luminaire would be if it would fall under the note in the luminaire definition in 3.48.

_NOTE A batten lamp holder or a lamp holder suspended by a flexible cord is a
luminaire._

I don't see that reg 6.14.4.1 would extend to the entire 'luminaire' or 'light fitting' unless it was a batten lamp holder suspended by flex. Therefore there's no way a luminaire or light fitting would be exempt from earthing. 

_Reg 6.14.4.1 A lamp holder shall be shrouded in insulating material or shall
be earthed, unless it is simultaneously
a) out of arm's reach from the floor or walkway level,
b) out of arm's reach from a structure that is bonded to earth,
c) protected from the weather and the splashing, dripping, or accumulation
of water, and
d) not touching a conductive surface._ 

A luminaire or light fitting is the complete lighting assembly including the lampholder inside obviously. Luminaires;

According to the regs the definition is;
_3.48 luminaire
appliance that distributes, filters or transforms the light transmitted from
one or more lamps and that includes all the parts necessary
supporting, fixing and protecting the lamps but not the lamps themselves,
and, when necessary, circuit auxiliaries together with the means for
connecting them to the supply.
_

To address the exception made for an 'exposed conductive part' in 6.12.3.2. I'd suggest 'exposed conductive part' would apply to exposed cover screws for example. Any part likely to introduce any potential, including earth potential, would be classed as 'extraneous conductive' and not 'exposed conductive'. For the part to qualify as exposed conductive it would need to have a resistance of at least 1kΩ @ a 250v IR test in dry conditions otherwise it would be classed as extraneous conductive in which case it should be earth bonded.

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## bergie

6.12.3.2 The following conductive parts do not need to be earthed:

b) exposed conductive parts of fixed electrical equipment that are 
1) out of arm's reach from the floor (or walking) level,
2) out of arm's reach from a structure that is bonded to earth, and
3) not exposed to the weather or to the condensation, dripping,
splashing or accumulation of water, and
4) not touching a conductive surface;

and/or

6.14.4 Lamp holders


*fixed electrical equipment* : would a luminaire not be considered fixed electrical equipment?

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## Dave A

Here's one I got presented with this morning. 

It is a low hanging Radiant light fitting with metal ceiling cup and reflector/shade over a kitchen counter top -



The bottom of the metal reflector is 1.8m above floor level. It's a 220v luminaire. Our test for earth on the metal reflector revealed no continuity back to the main earth point of the installation. Closer examination reveals there is an installation earth conductor available at the point of consumption, but no earth connection point provided to connect to within the luminaire, and the cable between the two metal parts is twin flex with no earth conductor. 

Ultimately the luminaire seems to be installed and connected as designed...

Thoughts, anyone?

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## Leecatt

Well now I can't find the sentence in the regs. 
It used to say that a tool must be used to separate connections, or something to that effect. Of course, undoing a twist tie is not using a tool. I will keep looking when I get more time.

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## Dave A

> Nice picture, I assume that you do realise  that the use of "twist ties" is also illegal.





> Care to elaborate on that? I am just asking because when i got the contractor in to replace all the lights in my home, "twist ties" was the norm" They are all gone now but somehow the guy that did the first COC didn't mention it and he cost me a lot of money to date and I would love to know more because this will be yet another thing he overlooked.





> Well now I can't find the sentence in the regs. 
> It used to say that a tool must be used to separate connections, or something to that effect. Of course, undoing a twist tie is not using a tool. I will keep looking when I get more time.


I'd also be curious as to the section that makes the twist tie illegal on *all* phase conductors and neutrals.

When it comes to the earth conductor, 
6.12.1.5 - Connections of earth continuity conductors shall not rely only on twisting of the conductor or strands of the conductorand 
6.12.1.6 - A fuse or switching device shall not be fitted in an earth continuity conductor (joints which can only be disconnected by means of a tool may be provided for test purposes).apply.

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## SilverNodashi

> Here's one I got presented with this morning. 
> 
> It is a low hanging Radiant light fitting with metal ceiling cup and reflector/shade over a kitchen counter top -
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom of the metal reflector is 1.8m above floor level. It's a 220v luminaire. Our test for earth on the metal reflector revealed no continuity back to the main earth point of the installation. Closer examination reveals there is an installation earth conductor available at the point of consumption, but no earth connection point provided to connect to within the luminaire, and the cable between the two metal parts is twin flex with no earth conductor. 
> 
> Ultimately the luminaire seems to be installed and connected as designed...
> ...


So it shouldn't be earthed?

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## hartdev@hotmail.com

I struggle to understand why any light fitting out of arms reach should not be earthed. If someone is on eg. a metal ladder and gets a shock while changing a bulb or doing a repair then that person could fall from a height as a result, making it more dangerous than something that is at arms reach.
It's not like it's a big deal to connect an earth wire...

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