# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Why should one use an estate agent?

## adrianh

Please give 5 reasons for using an estate agent?

Would it not be better to simply advertise privately and save a lot of money?

What are the pros and cons....

Hey Doug, you've got the floor, tell us why we should use your services....sell it to us...come on, don't be shy...grab the mic and let rip!

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## tec0

_Note by Dave A: some rather non-constructive discussion was moved elsewhere. And back to tec0..._

I believe we are correct in saying that you need to be qualified to do the job at hand after all this is a requirement. Secondly I also agree that there needs to be some kind or liability when someone sells a bad property to someone else. You are the facilitator after all?  

So if you can stop for a moment and consider how many people got a bad deal and give the situation some thought you will find that many people wishes to be educated.   

So please educate us… Or otherwise consider us educated by your aggression.

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Blurock (04-Apr-12), Citizen X (05-Apr-12), Petrichor (04-Apr-12)

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## Blurock

> @ Doug B 
> However you failed to address a single problem people have with estate agents. 
> 
> So please educate us Or otherwise consider us educated by your aggression.


I agree with tecO and would like to know what Doug has to say on the topic. The question has not been answered yet.

The Forum is a place to share ideas and information. We are individuals and therefore do not think alike. So we do have different opinions from time to time. If you do not agree or are offended by a post, it is your right to voice your opinion, but swallow your pride and move on. 

It is amusing to see the sparring between members, but when it gets to this level it gets a bit tedious and childish. So come on chaps, kiss and make up and lets hear what Doug has to say about his profession. :Fence:  :Helpsmilie:

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Petrichor (04-Apr-12), tec0 (04-Apr-12)

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## Doug B

ciao

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## tec0

> never heard such trash in my life! If a sale falls flat because it turns out the buyer actually can't afford the monthly bond repayments as calculated by the banks it is OUR fault...say no more.


That is one side of the coin yes. 

However, lets continue on shall we… 

The liability factor comes to play within the inspection of the home and the actual paperwork that goes with it. In my own experience I have found that sometimes the person that did the electrical inspection for example was not in reality certified. Now in my case the paperwork was given to me by the estate agent. 

In this respect all paperwork handled by the estate agent needs to be certifiable. Otherwise fraud comes to mind. Now my question to you is this: whose responsibility is it to check for the validity of the documents?  

I believe this is no laughing matter if the property where accompanied with questionable documentation?

What is your responsibility towards these documents?  
Also do you authenticate them or do you only make these documents available on request? 




> so in future I would appreciate your respect regarding my presence, failing which I will simply ignore you


Respect is earned, and your other posts were also less then respectful so please don't try and force anyone to do anything. If you ignore us, it is simply your choice and the choice of the agency you now represent.

So please do continue and if you don’t mind leaving other member's names out in your examples. 

Thank you.

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## adrianh

Ok, so lets say you sell a R2.5mil house, you make 2.5% which is R62,500. Can you honestly say that estate agents generally do work worth this kind of money. I am of the view that an estate agent should be tasked to do a due dilligence on the property and sign off on various issues related to the property such as that the plans are valid and lodged, that the electrical certificate has been obtained, that there are no outstanding rates and taxes payable...etc. If it turns out after the fact that those things are not in order then the estate agent should be held liable, the estate agent is then free to sue the seller to recover the money. I did not say an estate agent should be held liable if a deal falls flat, an estate agent should be held liable if he sold a property and the basic paperwork was not in order.

Further;
1. How come you call me an 'idiot' when I ask a simple question?
2. How can you say that asking where 2.5% of a sale goes 'childish crap' ?
3. Don't you think the buyer & seller are entitled to know exactly what they are paying for?
4. Given the whole Wendy Mechanic debacle, don't you think that customers would expect transpacency in their dealings with estate agents?
5. What about Auction Alliance & Wendy Appelbaum, where Auction Alliance tried to defraud her out of millions on the Quoin Rock Wine Estate deal, don't you think that such acts on the part of realtors make buyerc and sellers very weary of estate agents and auction houses?

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flaker (05-Apr-12), tec0 (04-Apr-12)

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## tec0

> Ok, so lets say you sell a R2.5mil house, you make 2.5% which is R62,500. Can you honestly say that estate agents generally do work worth this kind of money. I am of the view that an estate agent should be tasked to do a due dilligence on the property and sign off on various issues related to the property such as that the plans are valid and lodged, that the electrical certificate has been obtained, that there are no outstanding rates and taxes payable...etc. If it turns out after the fact that those things are not in order then the estate agent should be held liable, the estate agent is then free to sue the seller to recover the money. I did not say an estate agent should be held liable if a deal falls flat, an estate agent should be held liable if he sold a property and the basic paperwork was not in order.
> 
> Further;
> 1. How come you call me an 'idiot' when I ask a simple question?
> 2. How can you say that asking where 2.5% of a sale goes 'childish crap' ?
> 3. Don't you think the buyer & seller are entitled to know exactly what they are paying for?
> 4. Given the whole Wendy Mechanic debacle, don't you think that customers would expect transpacency in their dealings with estate agents?
> 5. What about Auction Alliance & Wendy Appelbaum, where Auction Alliance tried to defraud her out of millions on the Quoin Rock Wine Estate deal, don't you think that such acts on the part of realtors make buyerc and sellers very weary of estate agents and auction houses?


Now I agree with this. 100%

People lose a lot of money thanks to the lack of transparency, questionable documentation and pressure to purchase/sale of a property.  

This type of investment and it IS an investment must be considered from all angles and all *dangers must be highlighted* by the facilitator in this case the estate agent. 

Doug B what are your thoughts on the above?

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## Dave A

> Ok, so lets say you sell a R2.5mil house, you make 2.5% which is R62,500. Can you honestly say that estate agents generally do work worth this kind of money.


Quite likely not if you just look at one individual agent on one specific sale, but when you consider the total industry effort ploughed into marketing that house, it might even be cheap at the price. 

To some extent the estate agent game is like watching a whole pile of people toss money into a bucket and at the end of the day one winner walks away with the prize.

Some agents might only sell a house every three to six months, or even only once a year.
Of course there are others that manage to get multiple sales every month, but it's a pretty small percentage of the total working the industry.

Ultimately there are other options such as _sell it yourself_ and _sell it with some light assistance_, both of which require some skill and are ultimately pay-as-you-go deals - which means you've got to finance the marketing effort yourself as opposed to just pay for a result.

I suggest the issue of culpability probably deserves its own thread.

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## Doug B

ciao.

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## tec0

The amount the estate agent gets isn't really why I express an interest. For me it comes down to dodgy work. As seen on other post in other threads you do get good agents but I and others I am sure have experienced something completely different. 

When it comes to the paperwork and validity of inspections who is responsible?

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## adrianh

Dave, though I agree with you to a point it is a bit like saying I should buy a secondhand car from a dealer because lots of deslers have spent a lot of time and effort on marketing. I agree that it works for some, the doctor who doesn't have the time to drive from owner to owner looking at cars or the young lady who simply doesn't know enough about cars.

To stay with the analogy of cars, the salesman doesn't have the foggiest idea about the technicalities of the car, he has 50 cars on the lot and he needs to get them sold.

To get back to buying houses; (in a roundabout way) when we need to buy a car we compare cars, compare their specs, talk to our friends and ensure that the car has a perfect service history. (The great car salesman would have this all at his fingertips) Yet, when we by a house we walk around a bit, talk to the estate agent etc. We buy the house without plans, service history, and 90% of the time without even speaking to the previous owner or the new neighbours. We simply buy on subjective superficial observation and the say so of a third party (who sells it voetstoots because it is not his responsibility to look in the ceiling or check the plans). I am technically minded enough to look at deeper issues but what about the young lady that buys the house with the faulty electrics and is then told that 'she must sort it out herself' (She buys a nice secondhand VW Golf and when she pops the boot 3 weeks later finds that the spare wheel is missing because it was never supplied - then the salesman says to her, tough, you bought the car from me but I never said that I will check that all the parts are included)....Somebody needs to be held accountable and I contend that it is the salesman

I like to talk in analogies and here is another, when we go to a restaurant we interact with the waiter. The waiter doesn't cook the food, he merely serves the food, but, he is responsible to get the order right, bring clean cutlery etc, if the food is bad or the glass is dirty we do not get up a argue with the chef of tell the cleaning staff to clean the glasses properly, no, we $h1t on the waiter and it is his responsibility to sort the problem out. If he doesn't resolve the problem to our satisfaction then we refuse to give him a 10% tip (say R100 for a group of people). But we are perfectly happy to say that it is ok for an agent to take R62,500 and then say that nothing whatsoever related to the transaction is his responsibility....there is something fundamentally wrong with this picture.

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flaker (05-Apr-12)

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## flaker

i dont want to digress too much from the thread but i have had numerous instances of failed commitments from BUSINESS brokers. A business is advertised saying it does this turnover and makes this nett profit. So i call the broker & ask as to how he has verified this turnover and profit. And everytime, but everytime i'm told that they do not do that and it is up to the seller to do his own due diligence.What it eventually boils down to is that the commission earned is merely for introducing buyer to seller, that is it.Not fair. 
With respect to estate agents, i've yet to find one that does the full homework. i'm in the market to buy a flat. I've had many instances where flats are advertised and the agent has not done his homework with respect to size in terms of square meterage, parking bays, parking bays for rental from body coporate etc. Sad

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## Doug B

:Stupid:

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## Doug B

bye mwAH

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## Doug B

CIAO

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## tec0

Taking into consideration that the more serious questions got no proper reply and that we see a lot of edited post I accept the fact that the estate agent here wishes not to conduct a proper debate. Perhaps we were not worthy of their time. Perhaps it is something else. Who knows... 

Sticking with the topic however if you do plan to use an estate agent perhaps shopping around for one with a good reputation is a start. In any business do you want a partner/employee or contractor to leave you in a ditch?

The answer is a resounding no…

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## Justloadit

I think that we are getting too deep with our questions, and hence the lack of replies. 

The same follows with fully furnished rentals, all the estate agent does is gets you to deposit the money into their account before you move in, once you there, the fact that the bed stinks, or the chais are broken, or the light bulbs are faulty is not their concern, you are expected to spend your money to fix it. Every time I ask, did you actually visit the premises you are advertising? and the answer is no, we just act on the behalf of the owner.

Very Stinky I say. The loudness of the silence is deafening.

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tec0 (05-Apr-12)

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## adrianh

> I think that we are getting too deep with our questions, and hence the lack of replies. 
> 
> The same follows with fully furnished rentals, all the estate agent does is gets you to deposit the money into their account before you move in, once you there, the fact that the bed stinks, or the chais are broken, or the light bulbs are faulty is not their concern, you are expected to spend your money to fix it. Every time I ask, did you actually visit the premises you are advertising? and the answer is no, we just act on the behalf of the owner.
> 
> Very Stinky I say. The loudness of the silence is deafening.


This is exactly why I have a problem with the industry, if the person takes no responsibility other than acting as a _glorified classified advertisment_, then why in the world should one pay huge fees and commissions.

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tec0 (05-Apr-12)

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## Blurock

> Sticking with the topic however if you do plan to use an estate agent perhaps shopping around for one with a good reputation is a start.


One I can recommend without hesitation is Charles Alterskye in Amanzimtoti. A true professional. Most of the others I have (almost) dealt with were bored housewives selling properties for pocket money. :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Do not be afraid to ask for references and qualifications. You do not have to deal with the first agent you meet. There are some good ones out there, but there are more unqualified people giving the industry a bad name.

Unfortunately the principals just chase sales and go for the money rather than quality. :Frown:

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tec0 (06-Apr-12)

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## Dave A

> Dave, though I agree with you to a point it is a bit like saying I should buy a secondhand car from a dealer because lots of deslers have spent a lot of time and effort on marketing.


The main thrust of that post was to tackle the "they get too much money for what they do" angle.

My answer to the primary question would be - if you don't have the skill, or the capital, or the knowledge, or the network, or the time, or the inclination, it could well be in your interests to use an estate agent. Much like anything else really - you can do it yourself or you can call in a professional.

And I assure you, as someone who services this market, there are some *very* professional estate agents out there.
And lots of less-than-great agents too in truth. But again, that's also a pretty common issue across industries.

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Blurock (07-Apr-12)

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## Justloadit

Hi Dave,

Absolutely true.

However every good professional in his industry will advise clients what to look for in a professional, not simply keep quite.

Tell me the important points of a field I have no knowledge about so that I can make an informed decision, that the specific person I am contacting with has the credentials to provide me with the the correct manner of services.

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Nickolai Naydenov (07-Apr-12)

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## Nickolai Naydenov

I personally think that estate agents are useless. They never know the answers to all the questions I've got and I mean questions relevant to the property like how much are the levies, who's the managing agent, how old is the building and etc. you also have to chase after them to view a property, they don't return your calls, when there is something that needs to be done to the property they hide it just so they can get the highest price and commission and for all that trouble you must pay them 5-9% commission ( I have not seen an agent that will accept less then 5% comm so not sure where Adrian got the 2.5% from). 

If you looking at the seller's side there's many issues, for example they want a sole mandate, once they get it there's nothing you can do, and they don't care anyway, they make you leave your house when people are coming to view your property, when there are offers they decide how much they will drop the price as ifthey can make this decision for you, they are absolutely pathetic, I'm talking from personal experience, I have had dealings with number of them. They don't help you with paperwork and so on.

I've had cases where I was looking for a property with a few requirements in a certain area, I have ready pre-approved bond, I tell them how much I want to spend and they still do nothing. i have 4 properties and one of them I bought from a lady in a complex that wasn't even advertised, long story short, the lady had signed sole mandate with a company and despite the fact that the agent never advertised the property and the fact that I got in touch with the seller did't make any difference, the agent wanted their not just their full comm but even more money. I personally avoid estate agents, I even rent my properties out by myself as these people take money for not looking after the property and they have no responsibilites so at the end I end up fixing and painting my units, however doing it myself everything is been good so far.

So bottom line is estate agents are a waste of money, nerves and time, that's of course my own view on the matter.

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## adrianh

The 2.5% was what that guy said he takes for himself and the other 2.5% goes to the agency = 5% comm.

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## samanthaflax02

1. An estate agent's knowledge of the local area, the type of properties for sale within it and the potential demand will allow them to calculate your property's value accurately and realistically for sale. 
2. They should be able to substantiate why your home will sell, the kind of buyers that might be interested in it.
3. A good agent can only do their job if you work with them. Make sure they have a set of keys from the beginning. Allow them to post a sales board outside the property.

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