# Archive > Open content archive > MLM Industry Forum >  Canadian Diamond Traders

## Faan

Is there someone with experience with this?

Someone who invested a sustantial amount of money asked me to join in

Comments please

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## duncan drennan

Faan, do you possibly have any further info you could provide on this? Website, letter, contacts, etc?

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## Dave A

A Google search isn't encouraging. At best it's a marginal MLM deal, those ones that are a short step from an illegal pyramid scheme. And it seems to be attracting the kind of legal scrutiny from regulators that generally isn't a good sign.

It looks like one to avoid.

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## duncan drennan

Okay, here is the website, and here is Australia's department of consumer and employer protection's view.

The basic test for a pyramid scheme (from the Aus website) is,




> With pyramid trading schemes, people are attracted to the prospect of earning quick money merely by recruiting other people into the scheme.


which clearly makes this a pyramid scheme. Pyramid scheme's are illegal in South Africa. I have no idea what the penalties are for participating in one.

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## duncan drennan

This has also got some further info detailing how this is a clone of a previous scam, http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/1/18176.html

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## duncan drennan

Here is info from our very own DTI on various quick money making schemes.

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## Faan

I have just had another chat to this friend of mine.  He invested more than R40k into this scheme and wants me to join in as well.  According to him it is now legal again in Aus and some people cycle through this system every 5 hours and are making mega bucks.  I however still feel uncomfortable.  Have a look at this site:  www.cdtforever.com/idt/zellie01

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## Dave A

Have you ever taken a close look at casinos? Have you ever noticed how the bells ring and the lights flash when someone wins?

Your friend has just put R40k on the table. I'd be worried if he wasn't excited.



> According to him it is now legal again in Aus


I guess he'd better let that official Australian government website know, then. Obviously they missed the memo.

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## duncan drennan

> He invested more than R40k into this scheme and wants me to join in as well.


40k down...has he managed to get anything out of it yet?

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## Faan

No, that is one of the reasons why he wants me to join as well.  I think he joined just over a month ago.
The say they try and manipulate the system by not putting the money in at one time, but organising it such that they can push themselves up.  
You buy a "position" for $120, but they want R1200 for a postion and in the process earning some extra money as well.
I have already made a decision that I will not join and rather earn a few % interest with a much lower risk.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Been there, done that...  Hallo Faan, geld in, niks uit, vergeet maar...

Ek was bitter vroeg in CDT in, was 'n offbeat chance wat ek gevat het, nog nie 'n sent gesien nie, weet nie eers waneer laas ek ingelog het of probeer kyk het hoe ver ek op is nie...  So, don't bother...

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## BatesM

Wow!!!

David Thornton has been talking to CDT's Director and trying to extort him!!!

Read the full story, and listen to the phone recordings by clicking the following link:
cdtforever

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## Apie4

Hi,

Ek wil graag vir julle baie dankie se vir so site om te sien dat daar n klomp mense is wat jou help om die regte besluite te neem voordat jy betrokke raak in n sake geleentheid. Dis great. 

Daar is egter vir my n bekommernis in die hele saak. "WHAT YOU LOOK FOR YOU ATTRACT" As jy net soek vir "Scams" sal jy dit in als kry. Daar is nie altyd balans in die antwoorde nie en dit is dan on akurate inligting. Het enige van julle die moeite gedoen om uit te vind of daar wel sukses verhale van CDT in Suid Afrika is en hoeveel mense hier al betaal is met $ en Diamante. Ek is een van hulle en ek kan vir jou name gee van meer as 15 mense wat wel diamente en geld ontvang het saam met my.

Die is n behoorlike besigheid en moet so bedryf word, as jy nie in jou besigheid werk nie moet jy nie vergoeding verwag nie, ons het behoorlik navorsing in die regs aspek van CDT in SA gedoen en ek kan met gemak vir jou se dat daar geen probleem met die besigheid is nie. Australia is 100% weer op datum en die overheid is tevrede met CDT daar. 

Ek wil julle graag nooi om enige vrae wat julle het aan my te rig en ek sal graag antwoord. Julle kan ook na my kantore kom in Pretoria vir n voledige aanbieding om vir jouself te besluit of dit vir jou is of nie. Die besigheid is nie vir almal nie.

Vir al die mense wat wel die kaans vat sal die vrugte volop wees.

Groete
Andre CDT Pretoria

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## mackie1

Hi
My naam is Vernon en ek is deel van die CDT span in Pretoria. Ek het aan die einde van Julie 2007 my eerste posisie gekoop en ek het nou al 13 posisies. As alles goed gaan behoort ek in Januarie 2008 my eerst geld te ontvang en die diamante. Die vinigste wat 'n persoon in die Pta span geneem het om sy eerste geld en diamante te ontvang was 8 weke. Die persoon wat my voorgestel het het 9 weke geneem. Kyk na WWW.cdtforever.com/idt/mackie1
Vernon

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## Dave A

With payments confirmed, should I be moving this thread into the MLM section?

The question is whether it is a pyramid scheme or multi-level marketing. Anyone got any insights on this?

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## mackie1

Hi

In 'n piramiede skema is daar gewoonlik nie 'n produk nie. Dit is bloot 'n beleggings skema waar daar buitesporige divedende belowe word. Die geld wat in die skema belÃÂª word gaan gewoonlik na die persoon toe wat heel bo aan die piremiede is. Die aansluiting fooi word gebruik om die persoon wat bo is te vergoed. Sodra daar nie meer mense in koop in die skema nie sal dit plat val en almal wat laaste in gekoop het sal al hul geld verloor. 
In 'n MLM skema moet jy mense kry wat onder jou aansluit. Jy verdien geld as die mense onder jou produkte koop of verkoop. As die mense onder jou niks doen nie kan jy nie geld verdien nie.
CDT is 'n unieke konsep. Al wat jy moet doen is om 'n 120 usd deposito te maak op jou eerste .25 karaat diamant. Jy moet dan slegs twee persone kry wat ook hulle 120 usd deposito's neersit op hul eie .25 karaat diamante. Jy verdien geld uit die verkope van diamnante wat plaas vind op 'n diamant tafel.
www.cdtforever.com/idt/mackie1

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## Dave A

Hi mackie and welcome to the debate. Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on this. 



> In 'n piramiede skema is daar gewoonlik nie 'n produk nie.


Unfortunately, the presence of product alone is not the only criteria, but it certainly is a good place to start. I watched the presentation and as usual the devil is in the fine print, which I could not find. So if you could clear up my understanding on the product side for starters.

There seems to be two entry levels - one a deposit of $120 and one for a deposit of $520.
On this deposit system, would I be right in saying you need to top up to the relevant full purchase price before actually receiving diamonds?

Then if I've got this right, for the "cheaper" entry level of $300, you *do* actually receive a diamond/diamonds to the value of at least $400 and for the $1000 entry level you *do* actually receive a diamond/diamonds to the value of $2000?

Let's ignore the fact that there is a significant difference between "retail" prices and actual market prices for the time being as that would just confuse the system analysis.

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## Apie4

Hi Dave,

You are spot on with the 2 entry deposits $120 for the Feeder program and $520 for DTP. 

To answer your Question if you pay the full price of $300 or $1000 the Diamonds will be sent to you immediately. You can now use the Diamonds to help you market CDT. This option is also called the Feeder Plus or DPT plus program. If you go this route and you pay the full amount in the beginning you can actually choose the exact diamond or pendant you want with the value of $2000.

This is an awesome business and I have seen the people's lives change that receive money. In my office we have 6 directly in my team that have been paid R18000 in cash. Not bad!!!!!!!!

Live with Passion
Andre
www.cdtforever.com/idt/apie4

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## Dave A

Thanks Andre for clearing that up.

That moves us to the next question.

There are four levels:
MinerCutterPolisherCollector
Now it seems to move from Miner to Cutter you need to put 8 on your frontline (sell 8 immediately below you). Is that right?

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## mackie1

﻿Hi there
On a diamond table there is 4 levels. There is 1 collector, 2 Polishers, 4 Cutters and 8 Miners.
The collector, polisher and cutter levels is always occupied. There is only positions available on the
miner level.  When you enter the program you will land on the table as were your sponsor is on.
You will fill the first open position on the miner level. You only need to do two sale thatÃ¢â¬â¢s all.
You can have as many positions as you can afford but the rule is that you must get two sales for
each position as soon s possible.
Any body on the table can get sales to fill up the miner positions. 
It can happen that when you enter the table  you can land on the last miner position and then
promotions will take place. You will the be promoted to a cutter position.

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## Apie4

Hi Dave,

Just to add on to what Vernon said. You are correct with the 4 levels, but not with the front line sales.

Like Vernon said there is 8 miner positions that need to be filled, anyone on the table can make the sales to fill those 8 positions not just you. This means 15 people making sales for the 8 positions. You can get promotions from Miner position to Cutter to a Polisher position with absolutely no sales but will then be stuck at the polisher position until you have made your 2 sales. The 2 sales is key in the sense that it is the requirement to become a collector. You can not be promoted to a collector position without 2 sales.

Hope this makes sense to you.
Live with Passion
Andre
www.cdtforever.com/idt/apie4

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## Dave A

OK. So bottom line is you need 2 on your frontline.

But now I really am confused about the next layer. Basically, there has to be a total of 4, but that could be split over your 2 legs 4-0, 3-1 or 2-2? Is that right?

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## mackie1

﻿Hi there
When  the last position on a miner level is filled up the table is now full. Promotions must now
take place. The eight miners will now get promoted to the cutters positions and the four cutter
positions will be promoted  to polishers and the two polishers will be promoted to collectors.
Because there are only four cutters, two polishers and one collector on a table,  two tables are
created by the system. Four off the miners will go to the four cutter positions on a table no one
and four  miners will go to cutters on a table no two. So will two cutters go to table no one as
polishers and the other two cutters will go to table no two as polishers. The one polisher will go
as a collector on a table no one and the other polisher will go to the collector position on a table
no two. The collector on the table will be then had collected his money and his valuable
diamond. Because of the revolving and follow  the leadersÃ¢â¬â¢ system he will be entered as a miner
on a table where his sponsor is.  After all the promotions had taken place, the table will then fall
away. 
*The program works like this*:
You enter the Feeder table by paying 120usd to a deposit for your first .25 carat diamonds.  When
you exit the table as a collector 32 sales had take  place on the table and you have earned 800usd
as commission out of the sales of diamonds on the table. 300usd will now be taken to pay off
your .25 carat diamonds and it will be sent to you via FedEx and 500usd will then be used as a
deposit on a .5 carat diamond and you will the be  entered on the main table as a miner  where
you will then after 32 sales had taken place earned 4000usd and a .5 carat diamond. 1000usd
goes to pay the outstanding balance on the .5 carat diamonds and it will be FedEx to you. 500usd
will the be used to pay your deposit on to your next .5 carat diamonds and you will then enter a
main table as a miner again. 2500usd will the be paid into a CDT debit card that will with your
diamonds be FedEx to you. It is Maestro debit card that can be used world wide.  You can
withdraw money at any ATM or buy goods at any merchants where the maestro sign is display

Vernon
www.cdtforever.com/idt/mackie1

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## Dave A

The real question is whether it is a strict binary system. What happens to a guy if he puts two on his front line and one leg does not grow?

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## Apie4

Hi Dave,

No this is not a strict binary system, The 2 sales is purely the criteria you need to advance from polisher position through to the collector position. You can not become a collector if you do not have 2 sales. 

You can yourself make the 2 sales to yourself, 

Dave the 1st sale for Dave is Dave 1, The 2nd sale for Dave is Dave 2.
This means that Dave will go through the system and Cycle as a collector. Dave 1 and Dave 2 will only advance to polisher lever and will then stay there until they have 2 sales.

Now, Dave is a overachiever and makes extra sales(meaning more than 2) Dave now has a choice, he can give this sale to someone in his downline that does not hat 2 sales yet or he can put this sale on his frontline. 

The advantage of giving your sales to your downline is that this is a show and tell business and not a hide and seek, meaning I want my downline to cycle as quick as possible so that they can receive there Diamonds and show the people what the product look like. 

It makes a massive difference if you get to a group of prospects and you show them the Diamond and bank statement.

Hope this is clear enough 

Live with Passion
Andre
www.cdtforever.com/idt/apie4

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## Dave A

Thanks Andre. That really does help clear things up.

Having looked at this quite closely now, it seems there are a few differences between this and classic MLM. Of all the differences, the big one is that there is only one "pay point" - once you cycle out at the collector rank.

I'm going to move this thread to the MLM area anyway. Although everyone might not make money out of this (like so much in this world), I don't think it can be classified as a scam unless the value of diamonds is totally out of kilter with what you are paying. And so far no-one has suggested this as a problem.

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## riaanenmichelle

First time for me.Great forum.  The CDT has popped up here in White River.With weekly meetings to try and get recruits. Thanks to some searching I found you guys. The scary thing is that even in the presentation( a very poor one) they tell potential members to ignore Google becauase people are just jealous! You pay R4800 to start with the promise to make R17500 and a diamond valued at about R19000. Thats is before that tax that YOU have to declare and pay. Then you must wait and see if you do get a diomond. There are allot of questions and grey areas that the presenter just shrug of and say: "well no bank can give you this return!"I am a comitted Christian and it scares me to see how many Christians and even our Pastor get sucked into this. Is there no way of exposing it for a pyramid scheme. Yes is makes money but for every 10 people making money 310 is stuck in a Pyramid! Th question is not whether it works or not, the question is whether it is inline with our Laws. Who pays the poor suckers that come in last and cant cyle out?What about Amway? Surely thats the same type of thing. What can be done about this?

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## Dave A

You definitely can't compare this to Amway or many, many other MLM systems. It is significantly different in many ways. If you look at it closely, it is essentially a deferred payment plan.

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## The truth

Canadian Diamond Traders

1. GREED!

2. Went to their Website. Go to directors NO DIRECTORS and no photoâs of building? http://www.cdtforever.com/eclipse/cd...ex.html?refer=

3. They were very big in Australia. For more than 4 years there. Their website doesnât work anymore.

http://ditraders.net/

Australia government

http://www.docep.wa.gov.au/consumerp...amond_Tra.html

http://www.docep.wa.gov.au/Corporate...amid_sche.html

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pro.../LA20060921018

4. More evidence

Treasure Traders International (Refer to legal document)

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/calga...7-d845b9dbacb4

Crime busters Now

http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/1/18176.html

Blogâs

http://mishkazena.wordpress.com/2006...der-a-pyramid/

http://danielgreene.com/2007/10/02/c...to-silence-me/

5. Skybiz pyramid scheme alot of South Africans involved (96% lost their money)

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/03/skybiz.shtm

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## armiuxz

I don't think this is scam because a lot of people from my country work for this company and everyone get thier pay-outs.Why you should think this is scam if it brings you a lot of money?

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## Faan

The friend I spoke about right in the beginning received a diamond I think in Jan or Feb but he has not mentioned anything about receiving any cash rewards.
This system I believe is not worth investing in.
A system I think that is worth buying into is the Holidays and Cash business.  If you are prepared to work and expose people to the business the rewards may be substantial and regular - within weeks.

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## prospects

Is there a website we can go into?

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## Dave A

> Is there a website we can go into?


Canadian Diamond Traders or Holidays and Cash?

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## prospects

Holidays and Cash

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## Dave A

I tested a direct link without a referrer - and it does odd things. This was the first thread here on Holidays and Cash and the link in there works. There are a few other threads in the MLM forum too.

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## Faan

I did not want to use the forum to advertise it, but you may listen to this very short video and if you are still interested visit my website:

Go Here: http://www.vmbiz.tv/hci.go to watch a short 2 minute video.

If after watching the video you are still interested, then please visit my site:
http://www.holidaysandcash.com/faankruger1

I personally think it is a very wortwhile opportunity to get involved in.  There is no product you have to keep on buying yourself on a monthly basis to earn some commission.  Payment is once a year (and it is not a lot to pay) and the benefits are substantial. By the time you have to renew you would not worry about doing it because of the small amount of money involved.  Because of the renewal system there is no chance that it will come to an end.  Within the first year an amount of more than R25m has been paid out in SA.

Good luck

Faan

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## armiuxz

If you want i can show you presentation about this business.If you want please download it from http://hotfile.com/dl/9301080/c6a038...tion1.ppt.html 
Also maybe there are people who don't want invest but want to work?Now i have my account opened and if you want you can search for people.I will pay for your work.

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