# Interest group forums > Book Forum >  books vs ebook

## robinsonwang

what are the difference?
which is more important?

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## deetee

you can't swat 'roaches with an ebook???

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mikilianis (07-Dec-17), robinsonwang (15-Nov-10)

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## tec0

To copy a book takes time and is normally costly. To copy a ebook is simple and easy. But why not include a CD with every book, that way you get the best of both worlds.

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## robinsonwang

all you said are right
what's more?
I think the attitude of the books' writer are much more careful and professinal, the ebook will be more relaxed.
the content of the book will be more professional and worthy, the content of ebook will be more simple and easy to be a writer as an ebook author.

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## desA

I need erasable e-books, which dissolve at a certain pre-agreed expiry date.

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## robinsonwang

> To copy a book takes time and is normally costly. To copy a ebook is simple and easy. But why not include a CD with every book, that way you get the best of both worlds.


it's easy to have your own works on ebook, but not easy to have your own book published
the publish fee decides the difference of ebook and book

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## desA

> I need erasable e-books, which dissolve at a certain pre-agreed expiry date.


Can you solve this Robinsonwang?   :Taz:

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## AndyD

I'm not sure exactly what you means DesA but there are several proprietary e-book formats which allow DRM. You can prevent duplication and set limitations on the product such as the number of times it can be read or the length of time the e-book will open.

Of course, where there's DRM there's also a way around it but it will work for the majority.

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desA (15-Nov-10)

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## desA

> I'm not sure exactly what you means DesA but there are several proprietary e-book formats which allow DRM. You can prevent duplication and set limitations on the product such as the number of times it can be read or the length of time the e-book will open.
> 
> Of course, where there's DRM there's also a way around it but it will work for the majority.


Thanks so much AndyD. If you have further info on these, I'd be very interested.

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## AndyD

Sorry desA, I have just been back to this thread whilst following up on old posts.

You can make a layered pdf and use embedded java script to verify the user, time, views and so on. This would be the most flexible option but involves some coding.

If you would rather go with something out of the box you could use any number of applications available. 
Here's one http://www.fileopen.com/
or here's another http://www.a-pdf.com/faq/how-to-set-...piry-dates.htm
And finally pastebin might also work for you http://pastebin.com/

Hope this helps.

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## tec0

> it's easy to have your own works on ebook, but not easy to have your own book published the publish fee decides the difference of ebook and book


Mostly South African publishers are really not interested in any book that hasn't something to do with conviction of past events. They are not interested in real fantasy and fiction. For the last 6 years I have tried everything to get my books solicited and have it looked at. 

It has been nothing but a waste of time... Our publishers are narrow-minded and our writers are suffering heavily for the  publisher's narrow-mindedness.  I can only hope they go bankrupt so that real publishing entities can take over and writers will once again be free to write about anything  not just this BS stuff that is basically forced down onto the public.

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## rfnel

> Thanks so much AndyD. If you have further info on these, I'd be very interested.


Hi Des

I only saw this thread now.  As Andy said, it is likely that there are tools available to create 'access-controlled' e-books and as always, there will be a way around them.  However, I'm not familiar with any existing tools of that nature. 

I am in the software industry, and developing an application like that could make for an interesting project.  If you'd like to discuss it further, please give me a shout.

Cheers,
Riaan

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## jeccyka

If I choose, i will choose books not E-book.

Although it is much convenient and easy to take them , for me i have a faith that classic books can keep forever by people. while E-book can not .

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## Just Gone

> Although it is much convenient and easy to take them , for me i have a faith that classic books can keep forever by people. while E-book can not


I have a tablet and my downloaded books are there for as long as I want them to be.  Much better to have e books than actual books - where I go my tablet goes, therefore my books are there.

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## tec0

The e-book is not really the problem the facilitators are. Fact is almost anything can be downloaded for free and file sharing is not something new. If you publish the e-book then there are many hands in the pie and you get only a very small amount of the actual sales. As e-books make the writer dependant on the e-book publisher and reseller systems.

So if I was to publish a book it would be paperback. E-books are nice but they will kill the industry.

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## adrianh

There is no DRM that can't be cracked...suffice to say that anything an everything is available for free if you know where to look and what tools to use. Whether you publish an ebook or not somebody will turn a paper book into an ebook very quickly. I agree with Kevin, I keep all my books on the tablet and my my wife and daughters keep all their books on their Kindles. Ebooks will kill the paper publishing industry just as MP3 is killing the CD pressing industry. It is the way of the world, technology advances and if you don't keep up you stay behind...aka Kodak, Olivetti and many other companies that failed to change when change was thrust upon them.

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## vieome

Personally I prefer paper books, but I think the time is coming when paper books will head in the direction of vinyl. It is very difficult for a writer to get published in paper even if it is an ideal medium. Large corportations have to accept the fact that technology is changing the way the make money. Take the music industry while still large amounts are made via itunes etc, the amount of piracy in the digital age will always be in the 70% region. They can stop all the free download sites, but nothing can stop one visiting a friend and copying all their music collection. The same applies to e-books. In the future musicians will only make money by having concerts, but they will give away their content free, already we see this trend, the stars of today Justin bieber, llwayne, all made a name for themselves by giving content free. People as a rule follow the free.

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## adrianh

What is interesting about music is that people prefer "free" to "quality". There was a time when the thing to do was to spend a lot of money on high end audio equipment to get that perfect sound. I read a study that came to the conclusion that young people care more for sheer volume (number of songs) than the true quality of those songs. That is why so many people are happy to listen to low quality MP3 as long as they have lots of them and they are portable. Maybe it has more to do with the music being personally portable than anything else. There is another side to this debate though and that is that people get exposed to a wider variety of content. One would think twice about buying a CD for R100 of an unknown artist but you wouldn't think twice about listening to a totally different genre of music if your get it free. This of course goes for movies too, I will happily watch something with my wife on the PC but I sure ain't going to pay SK R60 to see a movie that I might not enjoy.

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## Just Gone

Those that keep up with technology will obviously buy online, but you will still get the die hards that want to read a normal book ...... But gone are the days when I buy another actual book.  Its not only cheaper online, but much more convenient.

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## tec0

I think that you will soon be able to buy an SD-card along with the paperback so that you own both physical and virtual copy. This is an acceptable future. Fact is the loss of LP records echo’s true today. It was a wonderful medium simple and it worked. 

Fact is technology is not the future paper and Phonograph’s are the future because they can be easily used. Modern technologies have a low life expectancy thus you may well end up bookless if the tech fail and that can easily happen. A strong Electromagnetic pulse will burn any unsealed integrated circuit and most technologies are manufactured by the cheapest possible means... 

Fact is to get a Phonograph going is not that technical and doesn’t need integrated circuitry to function. This is fact. Same is true with an e-book if the device fails the book is gone and with it the information. Now I personally rather own a Phonograph and an actual book as these two things maintain function especially when other newer technologies fail.

Don’t get me wrong I love technology but it is wise to identify their shortcoming and adapt accordingly.

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mikilianis (07-Dec-17)

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## Just Gone

> Same is true with an e-book if the device fails the book is gone and with it the information


What you on about ???? ..... It is never gone ............. it is all kept online eg at Amazon.com.  If you log into your account from any computer it can be retrieved !

Ps - and as for any other information - there is a thing called dropbox which you should put all documents into to recover from any computer.  If you dont save your important information in a cloud you will lose it sometime, be it from your tablet or computer. And lastly Android is all apps - so if you lose your device - just download another app on your new tablet.

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## adrianh

I think that we should go back to stone tablets because if there is a fire then all the LP's and books will be gone. Kevin and I already have tablets so we're ok.

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Dave A (29-Jun-12)

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## vieome

> I think that you will soon be able to buy an SD-card along with the paperback so that you own both physical and virtual copy. This is an acceptable future. Fact is the loss of LP records echos true today. It was a wonderful medium simple and it worked. 
> 
> Fact is technology is not the future paper and Phonographs are the future because they can be easily used. Modern technologies have a low life expectancy thus you may well end up bookless if the tech fail and that can easily happen. A strong Electromagnetic pulse will burn any unsealed integrated circuit and most technologies are manufactured by the cheapest possible means... 
> 
> Fact is to get a Phonograph going is not that technical and doesnt need integrated circuitry to function. This is fact. Same is true with an e-book if the device fails the book is gone and with it the information. Now I personally rather own a Phonograph and an actual book as these two things maintain function especially when other newer technologies fail.
> 
> Dont get me wrong I love technology but it is wise to identify their shortcoming and adapt accordingly.


That is like saying the problem with paper books is that they can be damaged by fire. There are many aspects to technology, the hardware, data, software... yes circuit can be damage EMP, static etc, my CPU dies, but my data on the hard drive remains. My hard drive dies, but my back up one remains. My back up dies, but my online backup remains. All my data is destroyed, it can simply be replaced from so many sources, so unless you talking in terms of a global EMP that wipes out all technology, or are infact marketing and selling papers books and phonographs then your argument makes no sense at all. Technology is so ingrained into every facet of our human life, most technologies we dont even see or think about, the chips in your car, the chip in your fridge, your dvd, if it is not the future I dont think it would be so wide reaching.  1000 e-books in my collection cost zero dollars. 20 books on my book shelf(lost a few in a fire lol) cost @100 each R2000. Mmmm I am thinking I am going to invest more in e-books and I am thinking more people will do the same, result book sales suffer, effect death of books. Yes I know us older generation like to hold onto ancient techs but at some stage we have to get with the program.

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## Just Gone

Originally Posted by tec0



> your argument makes no sense at all


lol ..... Dont worry vieome - he never makes sense .............. :Smile:

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## tec0

> marketing and selling papers books and phonographs then your argument makes no sense at all.


No I don’t sell them I own a lot of LPs and a lot of books many of them very old. I enjoy owning them it is fun just to read a book or listen to some music.  :Smile: 

These two devices is simplistic in nature. Fact is NASA actually send instructions to build a phonograph into space along with a LP to be played on it. They did this because the technology is basic. 

The same is true with a normal book. You don’t need other devices to read a book. All you need is the book and be able to read it. An e-book can never have collectors value and is only accessible if the technology is there. 

Not too long ago a fabricator of hard disk drives where hit by a flood. For 6 months hard drives became really expensive. Now the truth is if the electronic ecosystem breaks down and you don’t have a functional device then the info is also lost. 

All you have to do is to keep a book safe and its function will remain.  As seen in books that is over a 100 years old. 

I hope it makes more sense now. It is just a matter of opinion. I see nothing wrong with e-books it is just they also have limitations just like the real thing so why not have both?

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## Just Gone

sure tec .................

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## dfsa

> what are the difference?
> which is more important?


I reply on your original Question to avoid any confusion.

You have to establish your reader base you plan to target. We are in the tech age.

You can create your ebooks to be readable by the most popular devices, IE Kindle etc. They can be encripted, licenced with a key, they can be copy protected, delivery can be automated etc.

Hard copy books are expensive to print, your profit will be much lower, you need to send them via some courier. You would have to stock a minnimum amount of copy's.

You also can make both available to your readers. The ebook at Price one and the hard copy at a much higher price to ensure you make a good profit.

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## adrianh

@tec - it all depends on your perspective I suppose. An ebook could never replace or hold the same value as a rare book printed 100 years ago - but that goes for collectors value and not for content value. Then there is of course the matter of the audience the book is aimed at. If you are publising a book for kids to learn about math in grade 1 in the rural areas then an ebook has no value at all. 

So, I agree with some of what you say in as much as there is a place for both paper books and ebooks

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tec0 (28-Jun-12)

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## dfsa

> Then there is of course the matter of the audience the book is aimed at. If you are publishing a book for kids to learn about math in grade 1 in the rural areas then an ebook has no value at all.


Books do not really reach the rural areas. " Orders are done, proof of delivery are there. But damn they fell off the truck" 

Tablets are already much cheaper and they will become more cheaper. Older models are already in recirculation. There are talk that an chinese company want to sponsor under privilege schools with recycled tablets, because the kids must share handed down books with half the pages missing. " I suppose it was used for toilet paper" 




> An ebook could never replace or hold the same value as a rare book printed 100 years ago - but that goes for collectors value and not for content value.


So would you as the author really care that some collector put your book in a glass box 100 Years after you are dead?

As author you wrote the book to get your thoughts, story, etc. Out to people to read and 99% of the time you do it for a profit while you are alive.

If as author you dream that some collector in the future pay some D for your book to be put into a shelf, well then simply Print 50 books with a unique number each and sign them personally with a certificate to be released to the public 100 Years down the line.

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## tec0

E-book benefits range from easy to publish but you will share profits with the tech-ecosystem. Disadvantage is it will only take time for someone redistribute your e-book without any benefit to you. 

Actual book, "almost impossible" to get published unless you do your own publication and eventually a virtual copy will hit the internet anyway.

My suggestion is if you are serious about publishing go virtual build a name and go for printed publication when the opportunity presents itself.

Giving a virtual copy of the book alongside the actual book would be the next step in my opinion. Here is me hoping.

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## adrianh

dfsa...

Interesting views but reality bites. all our schools use paper textbooks.
Have you been to rural areas, you know, the places where they make fire to keep warm and don't have electricity, tablets have zero value in these areas.

You're not a collector are you...by the same token, why do people spend millions on paintings, cars or model trains for that matter.

No my friend, you need to think these things through, the world is a big place where many different people have many different needs.

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tec0 (28-Jun-12)

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## dfsa

> Interesting views but reality bites. all our schools use paper textbooks.
> Have you been to rural areas, you know, the places where they make fire to keep warm and don't have electricity, tablets have zero value in these areas.


I have seen Poverty that will make you cry from Today till next Year non stop!! Did some work in: Mozambique,Malawi,Botswana,Angola,Kenia,Tanzania,U  ganda,Gongo,Zimbabwe,Lesotho,Gabon, Zambia ( Refused to do work in Nigeria)

In the mid to late ninety's was semi involved with installing wireless Phones by the Thousands in what you call (the places where they make fire to keep warm and don't have electricity)Rural South Africa. Ooo yes the Huts are built from clay and straw. Yes they use fire to keep warm & cook, but right in the center of the some huts is a Pole, or looking around on the walls, you find one 
15A plug socket. The wireless phones still needed power to operate.




> the places where they make fire to keep warm and don't have electricity.


Don't just drive up and down your street, get out there and get yourself exposed. You will actually be surprised. Do you think our power problem is the result that you use more power? Nope, 

Do you think that as we speak all coal power stations that was de-commissioned early Ninety's ( 1990-1995 they were not commercially viable any more) are being re-vamped to supply you with extra power.. Nope.

The spike in mass electricity infrastructure is the main reason.




> You're not a collector are you...by the same token, why do people spend millions on paintings, cars or model trains for that matter.
> .


Who knows maybe, just maybe I do little investments, but I am for sure not going to create something that will have absolutely no financial benefit for my in my life time.

The people who spend millions, well they have too much money and do not know what to do with it. What is the use of owning a paper book worth 1mil and you can not read it, as when you touch it you actually do damage to it.

The creators of the books and paintings were mainly poor people in their life time. So basically what you suggest is that robinsonwang must create a paper book and make 10% profit from the publisher, that is if he find one that will be interested, and then hope that in 100 Years or more somebody decide they will pay a few thousand rand for it.

No,No I can not speak for robinsonwang, but I am 99% sure he want to make profit and good profit from his efforts Today while he is alive and kicking.




> tablets have zero value in these areas.
> .


Based on your assumption of no electricity!! What country do you think has the most cell phone users in relation to their population? Yep, you wouldn't have guessed huh. SA is right there in the top, if not at the top. My question? How the crack do we keep those Phones charged? Especially in the rural arias?

Simple answer: You do not need power from Escom to charge your Phone or Tablet for that matter.


Something interesting for you to think about**: Why are Cars in South Africa Just about the most expensive in the WORLD? Yet cars in the rest of Africa are 1/3 of what it cost us. You answer this one and I will explain to you how Google and China is going to supply the rural aria's with tablets. ( Hint:: Recycling)

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## adrianh

...eish...let me rather just keep quiet...it'll be better all round...

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## dfsa

Reality Bites

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## adrianh

You know, there comes a point when a discussion becomes rediculous, you reached that point. I will rather bow out of the discussion than get into a nonsensical pissing contest with you. 

I am sure that you are going to come right back with another clever comment but then, that is the way of those who perpetuate pissing contests...

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tec0 (29-Jun-12)

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## tec0

> Reality Bites


Funny that... Collators value is the dream of any artist. Becoming one of the greats is a dream for most writers.  Yes they want to make money now but the truth is a first copy collectible with a signature will always remain a popular item. Secondly old PowerStations are being upgraded but it is a slow process as it cost billions to do. I can point you to one if you are interested.

I happen to be doing my second trade and I noticed that not one student used a tablet for a handbook. Nope they had photocopies of the handbook in question or the actual thing... *Most of them where second hand but usable.*  But dont take my word for it. Go and have a look for yourself. 

So yes reality bites...   :Yes: 

*In my opinion an e-book is handy but it will never be able to replace the real thing as the real thing is just as handy.*   :Thumbup: 

I also see in your sarcasm that you pointed out that SA is the highest consumer of mobile phones for its population. Ask yourself why that is? The fact that it remains a *portable device* may have something to do with that statistic. The second fact is *that it can operate for a while without being plugged in...* Jip that is also FACT!   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

So is the power thing a real problem for us? The answer is twofold actually both yes and no. Yes but there are solar charging stations where people will charge your device for R5. And those who have power also ask about R5 a charge.  :Cool:  

Oh and another fact Not every household have power  :No:

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## Just Gone

@ adrian ............ I'm with you here .......... just gonna keep quite ............. but thought I would just mention that you two (dfsa & tec) are saying the exact opposite .......... with regards to "power stations"




> Do you think that as we speak all coal power stations that was de-commissioned early Ninety's ( 1990-1995 they were not commercially viable any more) are being re-vamped to supply you with extra power.. Nope.






> Secondly old PowerStations are being upgraded but it is a slow process as it cost billions to do. I can point you to one if you are interested


Anyway ......................

Ps ....... Oh one other thing ............. just thought I would mention it .............. did you know that government is trying all out to supply "computer" centres to all schools in SA for teaching ..................... oh and of course the "rural" areas will take a bit longer .............. because of bribary and corruption and because of no fixed power ............ but the plans are in place and it is happening.  Did you also know that a lot of schools and university lectures ..... be it private are being conducted online and with live time tablets ! ..... Just saying ....

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## tec0

> @ adrian ............ I'm with you here .......... just gonna keep quite ............. but thought I would just mention that you two (dfsa & tec) are saying the exact opposite .......... with regards to "power stations"
> 
> Anyway ......................


I just happen to live across from a PowerStation that is in the process of being fixed and upgraded. They have been at it for a while now actually...  :Wink:

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## Just Gone

Im not arguing with you tec ....... this time ............ its dfsa that said that.

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## tec0

> Ps ....... Oh one other thing ............. just thought I would mention it .............. did you know that government is trying all out to supply "computer" centres to all schools in SA for teaching ..................... oh and of course the "rural" areas will take a bit longer .............. because of bribary and corruption and because of no fixed power ............ but the plans are in place and it is happening.  Did you also know that a lot of schools and university lectures ..... be it private are being conducted online and with live time tablets ! ..... Just saying ....


I just hope this happens sooner rather than later. Fact is I am attending a so called “private college” but there facilities are not that wonderful. Run down classrooms basically no lights, 1 physical toilet and it is horrible we simply can’t use it. Then there is the damage of private property, theft and gang attacks. “And this really IS a private college” But at the government college we nearly got shot by criminals that where shooting at the police so really no choice in the end.  :Frown: 

Jip we really need this new infrastructure I will not argue with that.

I remember that Solidarity are also pushing for a similar system. So here is me hoping.

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## adrianh

The reason I am keeping quiet is because I am personally involved in two projects with the Namibian department of education. One for writing boards and another for tablets / Kindles. My business partners are involved in two further projects with them; 1. rolling out education via television and 2. logistics related to the distribution of textbooks. BTW: there is a tiny matter of R80million going walkabout from the department of education's budget.

The point that I am trying to make is that it is not a one or the other debate, each form has its own place, depending on who the end user is. I like ebooks and I keep them on my tablet, the department of education still uses textbooks and so do technicons and universities. (Now whether using textbooks is the way to go is neither here or there, the fact of the matter is that they are being used) Then there are people like my mother who don't understand the front end of the rear end of a tablet and who likes to go to the library to get books and talk twang with the other ol'ladies.

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Dave A (29-Jun-12), tec0 (29-Jun-12)

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## primeoutsourcing

I prefer reading books over eBooks. There is something magical in turning the pages of a book. Not staring at eBooks over a gadget that will probably make your eyes burn.

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## kath

> I prefer reading books over eBooks. There is something magical in turning the pages of a book. Not staring at eBooks over a gadget that will probably make your eyes burn.


I totally agree with you. we can find something interesting or creative ideas,but ebooks not. hahhha

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## adrianh

My wife always has her Kindle with her. She spends hours reading and it doesn't make her eyes burn. She can't see nothing without her contact lenses so it also goes to prove that the Kindle isn't hard on the eyes.

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## Dave A

Yep - from what I can tell one of the really big points for Kindle is it's onscreen text readability - they seem to have cracked the eye fatigue challenge that goes with most other onscreen text options.

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## Neville Bailey

I agree - I never suffer from eye fatigue when reading my Kindle.

The reason for this is that there is no backlight in the screen, so no screen flickering. Also, there is never any glare on the Kindle screen - in fact, the brighter the ambient light, the easier it is to read the Kindle.

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## AndyD

I would agree, the Kindle screen technology is streets ahead of other options.

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## adrianh

Remember the old Etch A Sketch devices that all little kids had to have many many years ago...that is a Kindle screen. That is exactly why the device uses so little power. The screen is cleared, the page is rendered and the machine goes back to sleep.

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## AndyD

That's a pretty good analagy. I've never figured out why they bothered putting an 'off' switch on them, maybe it was a psychological thing and they thought people would be confused if it didn't have one.

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## adrianh

Yes, the analogy seems appropriate.

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## Justloadit

Its probably using this technology e-ink, which I became aware of in 1997, and tried to become a local distributor, but at the time there was a Japanese printing company interested in buying the original founding company out, as the technology had so many interesting applications. Eventually they were bought out, and if I am not mistaken, Phillips was involved.

Here is the original site http://www.eink.com/technology.html
Check out how the ink works, it's really a smart concept.

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## mikilianis

Hi adrianh you say that There is no DRM that can't be cracked...suffice to say that anything an everything is available for free if you know where to look and what tools to use I recently converted to reading ebooks on my Galaxy tablet and find the ebooks are expensive the ones that I want to read there are loads of free downloadable books but they seem to be the ones that nobody wants to read I am trying to get a book called *The Narrow Road To The Deep North* by Richard Flanagan any helpful sugestions

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## Thato89

Paper books will always be special in their own way. However, technology is quickly taking over the world. What this means, is that essentially eBooks will become more important in the future. I personally think nothing quite compares to the smell of an old book  :Wink:

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## Amahle Dladsa

E-books are portable, easy to store, and easy to spread, but at the same time they are more prone to copyright issues. I often read e-books now but I prefer the texture of physical books.

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## Blurock

I've always been fond of reading, but have never finished reading any downloaded E-book. Rather give me the real thing!

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## sherinemuasher

Books are obviously physical copies while ebooks are virtual alternatives. Its really a matter of preference because there are a lot of people who will be okay with reading both but there is a matter of convenience with this since there are a lot of people who are okay with reading with their tablet or smartphone without any issues there.

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## mightytrader

My preference is physical copies.

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