# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  ELECTRICAL CERTIFICATE

## QUINN

To Dave, or any other forumite.

I have been in the property industry for years now and only now found out that an electrical compliance certificate is not a legal obligation during a property transaction.
I always though it was. Now I am told if agreed between the buyer and seller only then does it become an obligation.
I understand that all electrical installations require a certificate of compliance but my question then is why does this then not become a legal requirement before a property in transfered.

My question to Dave: 
I bought a property in December 2007. I had the property checked by a trusted electrician and he confirmed there to be serious issues with the electrical installation.
I then on transfer received a certificate from the sellers electrician (also the agent selling the property)
Now during the year I have found numerous faults with the system.
What should my course of action be if I believe the certificate was not issued properly?

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## garthu

Hey Quinn,
Also in property for some years and this is often a hot topic!

The way i understand it via attorneys is that the COC IS required by law on property. It supposed to be available on the premises at anytime for inspection even. Whats make it the challenge is that it is not required to be produced at the deeds office on registration so deeds will allow it through even if there is no COC.

It is up to the attorneys/agent to ensure that the COC is in place, even if it is not mentioned in the contract. Heres another question! What constitutes a valid certificate. If you have a COC that is 3 years old, as long as there have been no structural changes or electrical changes to the system - this coc is VALID! Go figure cause there are alot of things that can stop working in 3 years. Even a small change like a ceiling fan warrants a new coc. In other words it is law to have a VALID COC, but it doesn't state how old or who should be responsible.... That law came in around 1994/96

I always advise the sellers to get a new one cause 1) it keeps the buyer happy (sometimes :Smile:  ) but more importantly if someone gets injured, a child say, and the COC is in question, there is serious recourse against the seller and end up being sued for damages. Based on that the law society recommends that the seller be diligent and provide a coc, regardless of the contract not sepcific

You can report dodgy COC to the www.ecasa.co.za which we have done before but nothing did really transpire although they did get involved and were pleasant. The problem is proving who is actually responsible the faults, ie did you not change since the coc was issued? Something else often disputed (we take care of it now but auto putting in the contract) is things like stoves, geysers etc. They themselves arn't part of a coc, only there connection the board. if the unit itself is faulty, it has nothing to do with coc. trying hey when a new buyer moves in and the element blows on the geyser same day  :Banghead: 

Hope it helps...

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Dave A (20-Jan-09)

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## QUINN

Another question: I heard that valid approved plans for the property has to be available to the buyer, do you hab=ve any info on this? :Big Grin:

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## garthu

Hi. no they dont HAVE to be available. However the purchaser can request that the plans are made available as part of contract. In fact the actual building itself doesnt need to have plans, HOWEVER discolsure is expected for both bank/buyer and if not the buyer would win in court and bank, especially now, won't give finance

We have sold before with an extension on, no plans, but an addendum stating exactly that and everything was fine with banks even, but that was before credit crunch

I think it became contraversial recently in a law suite and we adopted a standard clause that the seller confirms the building is approved. If not we add addendums

Of course in terms of law, plans ARE required anyway, but if the buyer accepted the risk and council come and knock it down, sorry for him!

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## Dave A

Spot on, Garth. You know your stuff.   :Thumbup: 

You also raise the key issue about validity:



> If you have a COC that is 3 years old, as long as there have been no structural changes or electrical changes to the system - this coc is VALID! Go figure cause there are alot of things that can stop working in 3 years.


My argument on this is that it is reckless to assume a certificate issued on a previous transaction is still valid for the next one because of the potential that something has changed within the installation. We're dealing with a transfer of not only ownership, but effectively consequence too. It's important that somehow the validity is assured. 

Ultimately, once you navigate down all the ways this *could* be achieved, the best is to have a test done.

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## garthu

m thanks..
Learnt many the hard way! Even got scammed on my own coc. Bought, got the coc and when i sold 11 months later, paid R5000 for a new coc and that was some years ago... makes you learn :Embarrassment:

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## macb

Hi,

I wonder is someone can help, I wanted to find out of a ECC is mandatory before a transfer can take place

I am considering purchasing a property however the property is not in a good shape and extensive renovations are required. In the agreement of sale the seller has asked that I the purchaser pay for the ECC 

I suspect that in it's current state an ECC pass will not be possible, but once all renovations are complete that will be possible 

I have since revised the agreement of sale for the seller to pay as this is the norm, however if this prooves a stumbling block to the sale, can the ECC requirement be dropped and still complete the transfer of ownership and then i can obtain the ECC once the renovations are complete. If not what would be a ballpark cost of obtaining an ECC 

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated

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## Dave A

You might want to read this thread where the topic of the purchaser doing major alterations came up.

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## Sparks

Article 16 clearly states that any movable/immovable item/object for which a safety standard exists may not be bartered/sold/traded or advertised for barter/sale/trade without such safety standards being met. To the full extent of the law it may not even be given away for free.

I find it very strange that qualified "registered" Estate Agents do "not" know this.

By "mutual written agreement" the liabillity for the COC may be transferred to the buyer

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## Moo2u2

Im just getting ready to sell my property and need to get an electrical certificate, what i want to know is; Where do I contact an authorized electrician to conduct the inspection and issue a valid wiring certificate  . (in PE)

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## AndyD

Any registered domestic electrician should be able to conduct the required testing and certification. Maybe the Yellow Pages or ask at any local big electrical wholesaler for contact details of a couple of well established electrical contractors in your area.

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## Sparks

PE is full of "registered", "Acredited", "Authorised" whatever you want to call them "electricians". The challenge is to find an honest, concientious electrician who will not try rip you off yet at the same time ensure that the buyer has a "valid" COC. You are welcome to give me a call. Besides meeting the above challenge, I also give a lifetime guarantee on my workmanship.  :Smile:

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## muzi

hi tell me how do you go with this propity think i have a trade test also

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## muzi

i have a trade test in electrical in process of doin wiremans license but what i do understand is if how can i get to this busnss of doin house think

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## glynis

I have sold my property and called an Electrician in to do an electrical compliance certificate.  Before he arrived I did tell him that we were having problems with power tripping at the swimming pool when it rains or when the gardener waters the garden.  He completed the inspection, did some repairs and issued the compliance certificate.  However, the next time the gardener watered the power tripped again - I phoned him and he said that i should open the cover of the pump and let the sun dry things out and just tell the gardener not to water near the pool area again - I asked him how I should then stop the rain from falling in the same spot.  Should his inspection not have picked up the problem?  Damp is getting in some where?  I have asked him to come back and have a look but to date he has not contacted me. Is he responsible to sort out the problem for me - seeing that he issued a certificate?  If I get someone else in will it make the certificate which he gave me null and void?

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## Dave A

> Should his inspection not have picked up the problem?


If the insulation test was done with a megga (as it should be done) there's a fair chance. If it was done with a multimeter (which I've heard is the way it's done by some) the chances of detecting the problem if the fault was dry at the time is much slimmer.

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## Sparks

In all likelihood you have what is called an intermittent fault. You do not mention whether the pump is on or not. Because you make reference to it happening when wet I will for now assume that the problem is not related to the pump, therefore an electrical inspection would not pick it up unless it had rained on the day or previous night. There is probably a joint under or close to the ground and it is either not inside a waterproof enclosure or the enclosure is damaged, if you have lights in the garden being fed from the pool DB which have joints or terminations which are not watertight it will also cause your earth leakage unit to trip. You can also check for "spade" damage caused by your gardener. These faults are all intermittent because they only occur in the presence of water. Once dry they are often impossible to find within a reasonable amount of time, especially if the cable has been damaged by a spade. You could end up minus your flowerbed. Simple logic and a keen eye can go a long way to find the fault.

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## Dave A

I'm interested in opinions on whether the electrician issuing the COC (test only) is liable for this, though.

If the electrician was using a megga and the insulation test reading was fine, can you hold the electrician responsible?

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## AndyD

From the certification side of things, I don't see the electrician being responsible, the COC is a one-shot test, if the correct test equipment and proceedures were employed then he should be in the clear.

The other point, especially with a pool pump and outside lighting is there's a good chance the IR fault would be on items that aren't even covered by the COC.

On the other hand, if the electrician was informed of the fault and he conducted repairs on that particular fault and he charged money for this on top of the COC work then he should return under warranty and make further repairs on the same fault if necessary.

I think the answer lies in the details (which we'll probably never know).

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Dave A (24-Nov-11)

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## unhappy

Advice please - for a house based in Port Elizabeth:

Company 1 inspected and gave a quotation of R4000 and a list of 20 faults. 14 faults were fixed or eliminated which left 6 faults on the original list. Company 2 inspected and has now issued a quotation of R4000 and a list of 24 faults - which excludes the cost of fittings and "making good" (plastering and painting so heaven only knows what he is planning to do). Who or what do you believe now? This is R800 later after two inspections plus the "fixing up" costs in between!

Please help...

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## AndyD

Hi Unhappy, welcome to the forum.

Firstly I have to ask what possessed you to get a second company in to do another certificate when the place had already failed and the required remedial work hadn't been finished?

There's recently been a new ammendment (amdt 8) in the domestic installation regulations so it's possible the first CoC was done before the changes came in and the second one was done after. I assume you have the two lists of remedial work required so tell us what the differences are and we may be able to comment.

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