# Regulatory Compliance Category > Tax Forum > [Question] Issuing an IT3(a) from my trust to myself

## Neville Bailey

All my trading as a consultant flows through a family trust, and then the trust pays me a salary which I then declare when I submit my personal income tax return.

After submitting my latest personal income tax return on efiling a week or so ago, I received correspondence from SARS, requesting me to submit an IT3(a) from my employer (trust) so that they can verify my return.

In all the 9 years that I have been operating in this way, my trust has never issued any IT3(a) certificates to me, and it has never been an issue with SARS, but now it is. My trust is registered for provisional tax and for VAT.

How do I get my trust to issue an IT3(a) certificate to myself?

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## Christel

Hi Neville, we have a client (also a trust) that pays director's fees once a year.  This trust is not registered for PAYE either.  We basically enter all the info onto Easyfile and print the IT3a directly from Easyfile, without submitting the recon to SARS (as one cannot do this as there is no PAYE number).  Then we give the IT3a's to the directors asking them to declare it on their tax returns.  We also write a letter to SARS and attach copies of the IT3a's.  What they do with it, no one knows, but we've never had any problems (so far.... where is that piece of wood...??).

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

You can issue it on efiling, after having enabled the IT3 tax type.

It will be issued with the Income Tax number, as opposed to a PAYE number

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## Neville Bailey

> You can issue it on efiling, after having enabled the IT3 tax type.
> 
> It will be issued with the Income Tax number, as opposed to a PAYE number


Thanks Clive.

I've enabled the IT3 tax type on efiling, but I still can't figure out where/how to issue an IT3(a).

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

You need to generate an EMP 501 for the relevant period by clicking on the 501 returns button (so this means you must also enable 501s on the tax types).

So generate a 501 for the selected period. Then on the left of the screen is a two option menu; you pick the "Employee documents" and that will enable you to generate either an IRP5 or IT3(a)

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## Neville Bailey

I can't seem to enable 501s on the tax types.

After I input my trust's income tax number in the box, I get a message stating "Please check that your Tax Reference Number is correct".

Do I need to input a different tax reference number there and, if so, where do I get such a number?

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## Mike C

Hi Neville - could it be that you are trying to do this under your personal profile?  You might need to open an additional profile for your Trust.

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## Neville Bailey

No, I have a separate efiling profile for my trust and for myself, each with their own login details and tax reference number.

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## Christel

Hi Mike,
I don't think you can activate the EMP501 without a PAYE number.
This is where you can find a guide to the e-filing version of the EMP501 process (http://www.sars.gov.za/AllDocs/OpsDo...al%20Guide.pdf) 

It specifies that a PAYE number must be used.  

Have you been able to submit an EMP501 with only an Income Tax number?
We have phoned SARS and they recommended us to use the method we do - as specify in one of my posts above.  I don't think there is another way.

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Mike C (11-Feb-14)

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Neville that is strange. Stupid questions but I assume 
1. that the trust does not have a paye number?
2. that you are 100% sure of the tax number?
There is no reason for it to produce that error message; I have a few clients where I have done this.
Did it produce the message also when you enable IT3s?

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## Christel

Hi Clive,
Can you please let me know, I have now activated the IT3 option on e-filing, what is the next step?  Where could I find some info w.r.t. this.  

If I search for this on e-filing, it looks like this option is only to issue IT3 (b), (c), or (e)'s and NOT IT3(a)'s?  

So this would not apply to Neville's original question?

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

First you generate an EMP501 and you will get a message in a popup telling you you must use either easyfile or efiling, not both, and that you can generate up to IRP5's or IT3's

Then select continue at the bottom of the box, and you will be presented with a 501 declaration on the screen. On the left there are two options:


Click on employee tax certificates and then do the necessary

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## Christel

Thanks... but you can only do this if you have a PAYE number?

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

No, it is the tax number. 

I must say though I registered them some time ago. I don't currently have anyone requiring it.

I spoke with my partner earlier this morning and he did one as recently as last week. If anything more comes to light I will post it.

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Christel (13-Feb-14)

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## Christel

Thanks Clive- this works 100% with the income tax number.... !!

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## Neville Bailey

Sorry that I've been scarce on this thread lately - been preoccupied with other stuff...

I have now successfully enabled the EMP501 tax type, using my trust's income tax number, and I can now see that EMP501 is listed under the Returns section.

However, when I try to get an EMP501 issued for 2013/02, I get a message "Tax type awaiting eFiling activation with SARS". What do I do now? Wait? Or is there something I need to do in order to get it activated?

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## Christel

Hi Neville,
You just need to wait.  Mine took about 3 days to show as activated.

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## dellatjie

Morning guys,

So just to get certainty: In some instances director's remuneration is determined upon finalisation of the annual financial statements.

Would one use this method for that as well? 

In the past, I merely declared director's remuneration of this nature under "other taxable receipts or accruals" in the director's return. Is that incorrect?

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## Christel

Hi Dellatjie,
We used to just declare director's remuneration as you specified, but then the directors asked for an IT3a, ... .  But, seeing that I now know how to do it, I'll rather issue the IT3a and stay on the "safe" side of Sars.

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## Marq

I have the same problem. Never produced an IT3 or 5 or anything - just declared the amounts on the it12 as drawings.

Phoned the help desk and explained the problem and queried as to whether the solution offered above (reg emp501 and then issue it3a) was the way to go.
After much confusion, asking around and telling me everything other than addressing the problem, I get a guy on the line who tells me:-

The efiling method of registration and issueing of it3a's has been suspended. Apparently they have had too many duplications from the two systems feeding their system.I should request an IRP3 tax directive for this scenario which is the same as an IT3a. Dont know whether this sounds right or not?Best bet - go down to tax office and do everything there. Read as...I dont really know, ask someone else face to face.

Last time I did the face to face thing, I was told everything was sorted and a year later was please explaining the same thing again.
I did however have less hassles before efileing came into being and I stood in the q to do my returns etc.

This result - Me 0 - Taxman - 0 and we both do not have a clue. Going for a penalty shootout soon. ie. reversing penalties that have been incorrectly applied.

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## Dave A

Part of the problem is the SARS consultants not only don't know the eFiling system that well, they don't trust it.

And for good reason at times - I've personally seen some of the weirdness that happens in eFiling.

I've got a VAT period from 2010 that shows up in General Unpaid despite it having been paid, and every time I query it (which is now down to twice a year when I get a tax clearance certificate) I'm told it's definitely paid, and that eFiling is a different system that doesn't count, so if you're getting no joy from eFiling support (which I'm not), ignore it.

Then with the debit pull debacle, for the company where I can't use the credit push option, when I file the EMP201 it generates two identical entries in the General Unpaid listing. I've given up trying to use eFiling to report the EFT payment as it only gets rid of one of the duplicates. What seems to work best is to make the payment via EFT with the right PRN, and don't do *anything* on eFiling. Then both entries magically disappear eventually.

I expect the "unpaid" listings will linger on into eternity much like the VAT one has so far.

It seems there's a main system (which has the info that counts). eFiling, E@syfile _et al_ are relatively independent systems that help format info for import into the main system. But the information only really flows one way; into the main system - they're not fully synced bi-directionally.

To make matters worse, the main system is actually two systems that don't talk too well to each other either - the 2008 and prior system, and the 2009 onwards system. Recently I had a payment made in mid 2009* magically unmatch itself from the return for Feb 2008 - and it's the second time it has happened.

It's not just taxation that's as complicated as heck, it would seem SARS's overall IT systems integration is a bit complicated too.

*I made a minor stuff up of an EMP201 return which only emerged when I did the EMP501 - resulting in a late top-up payment having to be made - with penalties and interest of course.

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## Mike C

> I expect the "unpaid" listings will linger on into eternity much like the VAT one has so far.


I had something like this once and when I queried it I was told that I should mark it as "Paid Manually" and it will disappear from the screen.  Why they can't do if from their side mystifies me.

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## Christel

Hi Mike & Dave,
That's right, the "unpaid" list on e-filing does not "pull thru" to the SARS system.  This is merely a control for yourself.  Just go onto the one that you don't want there, click on manually paid, complete the info - it can be anything as it's just to get rid of the entry, and submit.

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## Neville Bailey

> You just need to wait.  Mine took about 3 days to show as activated.


Shucks, today is the deadline for me to respond to the correspondence from SARS on my personal income tax return, but my trust still cannot issue an IT3(a) because my application for an EMP501 is still awaiting activation by SARS.

Any suggestions as to what I should do? Attach a short note in response, explaining the situation, just to buy time?

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## Marq

> I had something like this once and when I queried it I was told that I should mark it as "Paid Manually" and it will disappear from the screen.  Why they can't do if from their side mystifies me.


Be weary of clicking the 'submitted manually' or 'paid manually' or anything manual on their efiling system.
I had a similar scenario, did what they said and clicked the Done manually thing.
'Manually' to them means - have sent in different form via a different route  and been there in person.
If you havnt done that, the please explain section gets bigger and bigger and I am still trying to get penalties and interest reversed as a result.

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## Mike C

> Shucks, today is the deadline for me to respond to the correspondence from SARS on my personal income tax return, but my trust still cannot issue an IT3(a) because my application for an EMP501 is still awaiting activation by SARS.
> 
> Any suggestions as to what I should do? Attach a short note in response, explaining the situation, just to buy time?


I think that should buy you some time ... otherwise you will need to go in and see them.  If you choose the latter option, I would recommend going to the new Umhlanga branch.  There is plenty of free parking - the new office is spacious and modern - and they were most helpful.  You can even go onto the website to see what the waiting time is like in "real time" (ie as you are viewing the website).

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## Marq

> today is the deadline for me to respond


I am in exactly the same boat.
I am going to just submit what I have, along with a please explain letter and see what comes out of that.
Was thinking of going down there to try and sort it out but we are heading for major year end period and I dont think I have enough time left in my life to stand in the q's.

Perhaps we just have to row faster, being in the same boat.

Its time to chuck out this huge tome called tax laws, thats only good for keeping the door open and reduce it to a one page instruction guide. They really should make an effort. Even your local racketeering mobster comes round personally to collect, with no forms, very little fuss, probably even less threats and they will only take what was agreed on which still leaves you enough to profit and live your own life.

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## Neville Bailey

At last I am able to issue myself an IT3(a) from my trust on efiling.

I have filled in all the details on the IT3(a) form except for two fields, and I was wondering if someone could help me with the details.

The first field is the source code of the income received. What should I insert there?

The second is the "Reason for Non-amount Deduction of Employees Tax" - I don't know what code to insert here.

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## Marq

@Neville - I have no idea - On mine I realised, I have been using my business source code, which is not the same as my personal income code. I assume there is a standard code for salary/income/remuneration.
I would say a reason is that you were unable to determine an exact payment of remuneration until profits had been calculated.

I sent my documents in with a letter from cc. made out by myself that I paid the member R x.xx and that I was unable to obtain an IT3a due to sars having suspended the issue thereof through the efiling system. So created a pdf with a spreadsheet showing numbers per return, with supporting letter and bank certificates and anything else that looked important, and sent that off.

I now have an assessment completion letter and all is good.

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

> The second is the "Reason for Non-amount Deduction of Employees Tax" - I don't know what code to insert here.


I assume it still exists; code 6 used to be "Director's Remuneration Taxed In Next Tax Year". Depending on your circumstances, it might not fly though.

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