# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Disconnecting a gate motor

## Leecatt

Elsewhere in this forum I made a statement that even though a gate motor is fed from a removable plug-top in the garage it should still be controlled from a disconnection device within 1.5 meters from it. After researching the regulations for answers to another question I have come across some information which I believe proves me wrong.

_6.9.3 Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3
6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a
socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled,
shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily
accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if
not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142 (SABS 0142), but
excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the
open position.

NOTE 3 The removal of a plug from a socket-outlet is a means of safe disconnection._

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## Just Gone

Yep within arms distance from the device.

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## murdock

and this just proves how would be common sense...not to use a socket outlet in the garage because unless you cut the plug off while working on the circuit..anyone could plug it back in.

how many electrician carry a locking devise for circuit breakers?

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## Leecatt

> and this just proves how would be common sense...not to use a socket outlet in the garage because unless you cut the plug off while working on the circuit..anyone could plug it back in.
> 
> how many electrician carry a locking devise for circuit breakers?


Whilst I do agree with what you are saying my emphasis is on interpreting the regulations as they stand and not trying to change them. I work with these regs every day of my life and I would like to understand them completely 100%

You see I do not install these devices at all but they do come into my sights when issuing a COC.
The information I am getting from this part of SANS is that you may use the plug in the garage as disconnecting device.
The cable to the motor cannot be anything other than Norsk, flat twin and earth or GP wire in a conjute piping, whether it plugs in or not and Cabtyre and "Speaker cable" (ripcord) are out. 
The requirement for an isolator at the gate for a circuit that is fed from a plugtop does not exist.

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## bergie

the key word is "lockable" if not within arms reach . a socket outlet wouldnt be lockable.

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## murdock

> and this just proves how would be common sense...not to use a socket outlet in the garage because unless you cut the plug off while working on the circuit..anyone could plug it back in.
> 
> how many electrician carry a locking devise for circuit breakers?


or should i say how many "electricians" know what a circuit breaker lockout looks like. :Wink:

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## Leecatt

> the key word is "lockable" if not within arms reach . a socket outlet wouldnt be lockable.


Bergie I agree with both you and Murdoc on this, it just doesnt make me feel safe pulling a plug I cannot see.
As far as I can see the regs do not require you to do anything other than that though.
Does anyone else know of any passage I may have missed? :Confused:

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## AndyD

> how many electrician carry a locking devise for circuit breakers?


I have a kit with several different MCB and MCCB lockout devices aswell as colour coded padlocks and signage, there's one on each of our vehicles as well. They don't cost a fortune and they're an HSE requirement on many sites nowadays.

There are lockout covers you can fit on plugs and padlock to prevent them being plugged in again so a plug can be considered a lockable disconnect if the right device is used.

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## Dave A

> Bergie I agree with both you and Murdoc on this, it just doesnt make me feel safe pulling a plug I cannot see.
>  As far as I can see the regs do not require you to do anything other than that though.
>  Does anyone else know of any passage I may have missed?


6.16.5.1.5 b) visible from the motor, or

If you're relying on a plugtop disconnector in the garage, options a, c and d probably won't apply in most instances.

Sidenote: The "housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board" does provide an interesting option to bring existing installations up to code.

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ACEsterhuizen (02-Mar-16)

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## murdock

> There are lockout covers you can fit on plugs and padlock to prevent them being plugged in again so a plug can be considered a lockable disconnect if the right device is used.


please post a pic or a link...this is something i dont have or have i ever seen...you learn something new everyday. :Big Grin:

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## Just Gone

Surely lockable defeats the objective of being able to isolate the motor quickly?

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## murdock

so dave when do you write your installation rules...part of your bucket list :Stick Out Tongue:  you wont need to ask your electrical guys for advice  :Big Grin:

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## Dave A

> There are lockout covers you can fit on plugs and padlock to prevent them being plugged in again so a plug can be considered a lockable disconnect if the right device is used.


I'd question whether standard plugpoints are designed as "lockable" though.

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## Dave A

> so dave when do you write your installation rules...part of your bucket list you wont need to ask your electrical guys for advice


Not happening - that's not where the company needs me  :Wink: 

I just happened to have sat in on the meeting where we thrashed this gate motor story, so I'm a little more brushed up on the issues than normal.

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## Justloadit

> Surely lockable defeats the objective of being able to isolate the motor quickly?


Lockable in this case means once the plug top is removed from the socket disabling power to the circuit on the plug, some device is installed on the plug socket which does not sallow the plug top to be plugged in again. Part of safety for when an electrician is working on the circuit.

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## bergie

> Lockable in this case means once the plug top is removed from the socket disabling power to the circuit on the plug, some device is installed on the plug socket which does not sallow the plug top to be plugged in again. Part of safety for when an electrician is working on the circuit.


lockable in the off position. i wouldnt accept funny lockout devices for a socket outlet .the lockout disappears and then you have to please explain the next time another sparky comes along and fails it.

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## AndyD

> please post a pic or a link...this is something i dont have or have i ever seen...you learn something new everyday.


There's several different makes of these things around. link link link They're nothing sexy, as long as it's lockable and these a sign on it then it fulfills the criteria. Mine all came from the UK but you can even make your own.





> I'd question whether standard plugpoints are designed as "lockable" though.


Do you mean plugs or sockets? If you're working on an appliance like a gate motor you wouldn't need to lock out the socket if you lock out the plug.

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Dave A (16-Feb-12)

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## AndyD

> Originally Posted by Justloadit
> 
> 
> Lockable in this case means once the plug top is removed from the socket disabling power to the circuit on the plug, some device is installed on the plug socket which does not sallow the plug top to be plugged in again. Part of safety for when an electrician is working on the circuit.
> 
> 
> lockable in the off position. i wouldnt accept funny lockout devices for a socket outlet .the lockout disappears and then you have to please explain the next time another sparky comes along and fails it.


I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly here, you only need to lockout the actual supply if the appliance you're working on is hard wired in an isolator. If it's unpluggable then you can only effictively lock out by encapsulating the plug once you've pulled it. If you lockout the socket then there's nothing to stop somebody plugging it into an alternative supply like another socket or an extension lead. This wouldn't qualify as a safe lockout.

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## murdock

thanks andy...pretty simple...a box around the the plug top...i suppose i have never had an application where i needed to lock out the plug top...most gate installations i have seen which are plugged into the garage are 12 volt.

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## bergie

ok now i see .i thought you meant the socket outlet. if that box could be permanently fixed to the cable i would more peace of mind.
most gate motors have the 12 volt supply and battery in its own box,so the supply cable is in any case 230 volt.

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## SparkyScott

> I have a kit with several different MCB and MCCB lockout devices aswell as colour coded padlocks and signage, there's one on each of our vehicles as well. They don't cost a fortune and they're an HSE requirement on many sites nowadays.
> 
> There are lockout covers you can fit on plugs and padlock to prevent them being plugged in again so a plug can be considered a lockable disconnect if the right device is used.


Hey Andy where did u buy the locking device for the MCB?

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## murdock

heineman/cbi have both the heineman unit and the new clip system...or you can get the one for the din rail mount type breakers from AC/DC...dont forge tto print and laminate a dange rdo not switch on label with your contact details

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Dave A (20-Feb-12), SparkyScott (19-Feb-12)

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## CharlM

Hi guys

It is compulsory to have an isolator installed within arm's reach of the gate motor, so that the electrical power can be cut should an emergency situation arise.  It is recommended that a 5A thermal breaker with all-pole circuit break is used. Page 14 of this installation manual shows the position of the isolator.

I hope this helps :-)

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## Dave A

> It is *compulsory* to have an isolator installed within arm's reach of the gate motor, so that the electrical power can be cut should an emergency situation arise.


Hi Charl and welcome to the discussion. Could you back that statement up by pointing to the relevant section of code, please.

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## CharlM

> Hi Charl and welcome to the discussion. Could you back that statement up by pointing to the relevant section of code, please.


Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3

6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position

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## Dave A

> Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3
> 
> 6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment *that is not supplied from a socket-outlet*, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (*if not specified elsewhere* in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
> a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, *or*
> b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position


I see we have come full circle. This was the starting point of post 1, but with a totally different interpretation.
Please note the highlighted bits above which are pretty important to the correct interpretation...

Just in the section you've quoted we've already got a couple of options other than the isolator within arms reach:

The appliance is supplied from a socket-outlet - you don't need an isolator within arms reach of the terminals of the appliance (unless specified elsewhere)There is a lockable switch disconnector device in the distribution board - you don't need an isolator within arms reach (unless specified elsewhere)

The "if not specified elsewhere" bit is touched on in post 9. Section 6.16.5.1 is all about motor protection and control - and 6.16.5.1.5 provides four options, only one of which is a disconnector "mounted on or next to the motor".

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## Just Gone

> Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3
> 
> 6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
> a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
> b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position


This is the way we installers have all been instructed to install gate motors.  This is also the way that electricians doing coc's are also calling it - never really had a debate with them so have just gone the route of putting a plugpoint within 1m of the motor.

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## Dave A

> never really had a debate with them so have just gone the route of putting a plugpoint within 1m of the motor.


Kevin, there's no harm in that. It's a great way to do it  :Thumbup: 

It's when people start stating it's "compulsory" - i.e. the *only* way to do it that the problems start.  People start believing it, then sparkies who issue COC's on an installation that *is* up to code, but deals with this issue a different way, start copping flack because folk have been misinformed.

It's unnecessary aggravation and I'd prefer to nip it in the bud before the disease spreads.

The big question that still remains, given Andy's lockable plug-top device option, is whether any plug-top can therefor be considered a lockable disconnector device? 

For the time being I've advised my sparkies not to rely on the idea when examining installations... for no better reason than it would make the _line of site to plug point_ option redundant (and that would still have to be complied with when it comes to motors on plug-tops anyway).

It's for things like these that a practice note from the regulatory authority would be really useful.

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## AndyD

I think you've hit the nail on the head. From a real world point of view a 16A 3-pin plug (or any other plug) is a device that would easily fulfil the definition of being a safe lock-out device. Sure you need a 'tool' to do it but that's no different than an MCB or MCCB where many brands require their own proprietary toggle clip. I'm guessing that the legislation was written by persons who weren't aware of suitable devices being on the market and I have to say they wouldn't be alone, I'm yet to see anyone else making use of these devices.

I agree there's no 'harm' in making the plug point within a meter but it's certainly an unnecessary inconvenience in many cases and possibly extra expense. If I was involved in domestic electrical or access systems work it would annoy the hell out of me but as I'm not I refuse to get stressed about it. The ball's in you're court Dave  :Smile:  I wish you luck and Godspeed. Let us know how you get on with the appropriate authorities.

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## Just Gone

I get called out quite a lot because someone might be selling a house and they cannot get a coc, because the motor was installed a couple of years ago and does not have a plugpoint within one metre of the gate therefore they cannot get a coc.  So this comes from a lot of different sparkies who insist on this to issue the coc.

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## Dave A

> The ball's in you're court Dave  I wish you luck and Godspeed. Let us know how you get on with the appropriate authorities.


Now there's a not-so-subtle nudge if ever I saw one.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

OK - let's give it a whirl and see where this dance leads.

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AndyD (22-Feb-12)

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## AndyD

> Now there's a not-so-subtle nudge if ever I saw one.


 :Wink:

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## mikilianis

I am only fishing here but I have got a problem with a DC2-L Swing motor control P.C. Board are there any leads to the correct thread ?

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## AndyD

> I am only fishing here but I have got a problem with a DC2-L Swing motor control P.C. Board are there any leads to the correct thread ?


Does the installer manual have any useful info?

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## mikilianis

Thank you you are a star I will read through it but at a glance I think it is a setting once again Thank you

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## Dave A

:Hmmm:  How about when the transformer is at the plugpoint (and out of arms reach or sight from the gate motor) and the supply to the gate motor location is only 18v ?
Would an isolating device still be required within arms reach of the motor?

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## ians

Dave why you trying to confuse everyone, got nothing better to do on this friday morning?

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## Dave A

:Sorry: 

I regret I can't pick the timing of when these things come to my attention, and I can't count on me remembering to ask the question on Monday  :Embarrassment:

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## ians

naughty boy, no pub lunch for you today... :Gunsmilie:

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## Leecatt

> How about when the transformer is at the plugpoint (and out of arms reach or sight from the gate motor) and the supply to the gate motor location is only 18v ?
> Would an isolating device still be required within arms reach of the motor?


No. The regulations only pertain to voltages above 50 volts

1.3 Where this part of SANS 10142 (SABS 0142) is not applicable
This part of SANS 10142 (SABS 0142) does not apply to.......

......h) extra low voltage control circuits between different parts of machinery
or system components, forming a unit, that are separately installed and derived from an independent source or an isolating transformer
(excluding ELV lighting circuits).

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Dave A (27-Oct-12)

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## Dave A

Thanks. I suspected as much, but wanted to make absolutely certain.

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## Didditmiself

Dave, I see Murdock has been suspended. Why does one get suspended from the forum? Did he breach one of the guidelines? He's been around for a long time.

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## ians

I do believe Murdock requested to be suspended, moved on.

You would need to be a naughty boy to get suspended.

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## Dave A

> Dave, I see Murdock has been suspended. Why does one get suspended from the forum?


In this case the profile was closed per user request.

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## Sparks

How about some consideration for "fixed appliances" and "motors". If it were as simple as a plug in the garage, why not apply the same logic to geysers, stoves, waterpumps, heatpumps............

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## PaulG

6.16.5.1.5 Each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated disconnector or any other manually operated disconnecting arrangement such as a withdrawable circuit-breaker, a removable link, a fuse or by the removal of a plug from a socket-outlet, which provides at least the same isolating distance, for the sake of safety, as a disconnector that is:

a) readily accessible and mounted on or next to the motor, or
b) visible from the motor, or
c) lockable in the open position, or
d) housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board.

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## PaulG

I read that the below means that a fixed appliance (such as a garage door motor) if supplied by a socket outlet, must only supply that 1 fixed appliance. But have had others disagree that this is not the case. How is this interpreted by the guys in the field?

6.16.1.6 A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason for this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent protective device. (But see also 6.14.1.4 for luminaires.)

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## Dave A

I should think the part to emphasise here is *fixed* appliance.

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## HR Solutions

> 6.16.5.1.5 Each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated disconnector or any other manually operated disconnecting arrangement such as a withdrawable circuit-breaker, a removable link, a fuse or by the removal of a plug from a socket-outlet, which provides at least the same isolating distance, for the sake of safety, as a disconnector that is:
> 
> a) readily accessible and mounted on or next to the motor, or
> b) visible from the motor, or
> c) lockable in the open position, or
> d) housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board.


Run a 2.5mm norse cable from your DB board to a Plugpoint within a waterproof box next to your motor - you can then "plug" in your motor as well as any lights with day night sensors you may want to connect .

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## PaulG

> Run a 2.5mm norse cable from your DB board to a Plugpoint within a waterproof box next to your motor - you can then "plug" in your motor as well as any lights with day night sensors you may want to connect .


Is this acceptable since you would then be supplying 2 fixed appliances from the socket outlet (motor & light)?

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## HR Solutions

> Is this acceptable since you would then be supplying 2 fixed appliances from the socket outlet (motor & light)?


It's a 2.5 cable - why not ?

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## Sparks

No problem with a Duo Socket Outlet. Unless you supply the light from the motor itself. As long as you don't force 2 cables into a single plugtop.

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## PaulG

> It's a 2.5 cable - why not ?


I am asking due to this in SANS 10142:

6.16.1.6 *A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance*. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason for this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent protective device.

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## Dave A

> Unless you supply the light from the motor itself.


That opens a can of worms if the light isn't part of the gate motor fixed appliance, I should think.

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## ACEsterhuizen

For cbi breakers this works ok.....but its flimsy and not idiot proof  :Embarrassment:

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## Sparks

There is a tendency to strip cable sheaths and connect two devices to a single plugtop. This is not acceptable, even though it is "plugged in" A Duo Socket Outlet solves that problem. Connecting the lights from the gate motor is acceptable when catered for on the unit. It can be connected with a permanent supply or so that it only comes on when the gate is operated, sometimes with a delay before switching off or a combination of the two. All security features built in by the manufacturers. Provided the installation regs and minimum requirements have been met, it is acceptable and can be certified. An Isolator(socket outlet serving as an isolator) is there to ensure safe working conditions when repair is required. It must however not disrupt the supply to the rest of the installation. Bottom line- all electrical work must be done by an accredited electrician or under his direct supervision. That does not mean him sitting in an office and sending two sowetans/zimbabweans to the other side of town, unless they are accredited.

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## joshthejew

> 6.16.5.1.5 Each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated disconnector or any other manually operated disconnecting arrangement such as a withdrawable circuit-breaker, a removable link, a fuse or by the removal of a plug from a socket-outlet, which provides at least the same isolating distance, for the sake of safety, as a disconnector that is:
> 
> a) readily accessible and mounted on or next to the motor, or
> b) visible from the motor, or
> c) lockable in the open position, or
> d) housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board.



I have seen a suspicious installation where this just nearly sounds like its legal once you try find loopholes around that point. 
On most gate motors, there is a green terminal block for the live, neutral and earth. Now with a double pole isolator in the db, the green terminals are a plug that if you pull them out, isolates the motor, right? yet that terminal block is not easily accessible. It is also housed in a lockable enclosure(gate motor box) other than a DB. I don't know if anyone can specify where the "mounted ON the motor" position begins or ends.

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## HR Solutions

> On most gate motors, there is a green terminal block for the live, neutral and earth


Normally found on Centurion motors inside under the green cover and is the connection to the transformer - this is purely the mains connection - this connection must come from the isolator/plugpoint mounted outside the motor within 1 metre.

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## PaulG

> Normally found on Centurion motors inside under the green cover and is the connection to the transformer - this is purely the mains connection - *this connection must come from the isolator/plugpoint mounted outside the motor within 1 metre*.


Where does the 1m requirement come from? As I read SANS 10142, if a motor is supplied from a socket outlet, that outlet need only be visible from the motor?

6.16.5.1.5 Each motor shall be supplied by a manually operated disconnector or any other manually operated disconnecting arrangement such as a withdrawable circuit-breaker, a removable link, a fuse or by the removal of a plug from a socket-outlet, which provides at least the same isolating distance, for the sake of safety, as a disconnector that is

a) readily accessible and mounted on or next to the motor, or
b) visible from the motor, or
c) lockable in the open position, or
d) housed in a lockable enclosure other than a distribution board.

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## HR Solutions

> Where does the 1m requirement come from? As I read SANS 10142, if a motor is supplied from a socket outlet, that outlet need only be visible from the motor?


I had a security business for a long time, which I eventually sold about 3 years ago.  At that stage they were implementing the COC's for motors etc and I seem to recall that the draft they were putting together just stated 1m.  I think they were trying to eliminate running cables from a nearby pool motor for e.g. that was "visible" - the isolator should be within arms distance from a motor i.e. thats where the 1m came from.

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## PaulG

OK, I have been advised that it must in fact be within *1.5m* of the appliance / motor. I do however feel that SANS is not clear enough on their wording.

6.16.1.5 The disconnecting device shall be positioned:
             a) within 1,5 m from the appliance

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## HR Solutions

Yep - so the 1m is correct ...... if it has to be *within 1.5* and the "visible" one is very ambiguous.

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## Sparks

"Arm's length" and "arm's reach" are somewhat different from each other as are: "visible", "in sight" and "line of sight". As the responsible person you are expected to ensure that for the specific environment you have provided the best solution considering the regulations as well as that environment.

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Dave A (04-Mar-16)

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## PaulG

> As the responsible person you are expected to ensure that for the specific environment you have provided the best solution considering the regulations as well as that environment.


Sure. The trouble comes in where you are issuing a CoC on an existing installation. "Rather safe than sorry" = unnecessary work and expenses for customers.

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## HR Solutions

I think the regulations that were brought in for a simple thing like a motor or an electric fence is a good thing.  Too many people doing crap work out there and it was one way to regulate

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## Sparks

> Sure. The trouble comes in where you are issuing a CoC on an existing installation. "Rather safe than sorry" = unnecessary work and expenses for customers.


If the client took the "safe" route the day it was installed, he would have used an accredited electrician then it would not be a problem when the time came to get a COC to sell the property. Unfortunately, saving a buck and putting the lives of his family at risk is somewhat of a priority for the majority of homeowners.

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## Sparks

> I think the regulations that were brought in for a simple thing like a motor or an electric fence is a good thing.  Too many people doing crap work out there and it was one way to regulate


It would be a good thing if it were enforced.
There is no national exam as yet for electrical fencing.
Installers who could prove that they worked for a company installing fences for 2years can apply for accreditation.
This means the cheap unskilled labour is also elligible for accreditation to certify!!!

I have refused to certify an installation because the COC for the electric fence was issued despite the energiser not being installed as per basic installation regulations.
It was mounted on the outside of the garage( no enclosure) with a piece of ripcord going though the wall and into the DB where it was connected to one of the 20A circuit breakers. The hole through the wall was made with a hammer and chisel. I suspect the same tools were used to make a hole through the back of the DB too!

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