# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Hellopeter.com - more than meets the eye.

## Dave A

It seems that there is more to hellopeter.com than championing consumer rights. In fact, I'm looking at that *Companies that respond* vs *Companies that don't respond* in a whole new light.

This new insight comes from the following:



> Johannesburg - South African consumer champion Peter Cheales - founder of consumer complaints website hellopeter.com - says that companies pay a fraction of what they normally would for the chance to clear up customer complaints on his website. 
> The clarification comes after a story on Johnnic Communications (Johncom) website Reporter.co.za, claimed that companies need to pay a registration fee of between R13 500 and R60 000 to respond to consumers' complaints. 
> 
> The author - who goes by the name Creationist - said hellopeter.com posted a complaint against the company he/she works for and that it was "devoid of some crucial facts". 
> 
> After receiving a link via e-mail to the complaint, and a chance to respond, the company found it had to register first as "a company that responds", and that it would have to subscribe for a minimum period of one year at a cost of R13 500. 
> 
> "This is the lowest category of subscription, and if you are a regular responder you need to take an upgraded package, which can be as much as R60 000 per year."
> full story from News 24 here


Now I've quite liked hellopeter up to now. We've even got a link to the site on our Useful links page.

But I'm just quietly thinking that the category "Companies that don't respond" should be renamed *Companies who prefer not to pay to respond*. And to some extent I can't blame them. It's a form of blackmail, really. I'll manipulate your reputation using the most powerful communication medium yet created if you don't pay.

Peter Cheales defends this as follows:



> Cheales says that the article is "blatantly incorrect", pointing out that many of the 338 companies that are registered to respond are small businesses who would not be registered at those prices: "The cost of registration ranges from being free to an absolute maximum of R12 000 a year, or R1 000 a month, paid by the likes of MTN, Absa, Vodacom and Standard Bank who field around 3 000 consumer complaints or compliments a year," explains Cheales. 
> 
> Cheales explains that the rates were derived by looking at what companies would ordinarily pay to service complaints and charging a fraction of that. 
> 
> "Research we've done shows that it would cost around R350 to service a complaint, if you factor in the cost of having people manage the process and a host of other things. With hellopeter, it costs 0.01% of what it would cost to get that feedback in the real world," says Cheales. 
> 
> Companies the size of MTN or Standard Bank typically get 3 000 complaints and compliments a year; multiplying that figure by R350, the total cost of servicing that comes to over R1m a year. With large corporates paying a maximum of R1 000 a month, the cost of servicing is, quite literally, 0.01% of the cost incurred via the conventional route.


A touch glib, methinks. 

Consider, for a moment, that in this very post I have drawn attention to the allegation that Peter might not be the great altruist one might gleen from perusing his website. And in truth anyone here could have done/still can do the same for free. Now Peter might want to post something _here_ to defend himself against the allegation. Would it be ethical if I was to only allow Peter to respond here if he paid me? 

Somehow that offends my sense of fair play.

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Citizen X (11-Oct-12)

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## Yvonne

Thanks for exposing this Dave.

The site should be forced to carry some sort of pre-notice regarding the options available to companies.
As well as a statement upholding the right of companies who refuse to pay a subscription fee in order to reply on the site.

I am amased that Hellopeter has managed to continue for as long as it has without recieving negative publicity. 

Yvonne

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## Debbiedle

*I agree that the information regarding "paying for response" should be available and transparent*   but....... can I please throw the cat amongst the pigeons here?

I personally advocate that I want to hear the complaint at all times and be given the chance to sort it out.  That way we ALL move forward. 

R12 000 for MTN to invest into customer feedback as opposed to polls, competitions and feedback from reps is thus minimal. AND lets face it, a complaint is GOOD feedback (if it is acted upon)

My personal dilemma is more with the smaller companies who simply cannot afford to pay for response??  So if I remove my predisposition to small companies and look at it purely from a business point of view.........does it not make good business sense to subscribe?

My answer has to be YES .....IF it is not SOLD as blackmail, which it appears from the original post may be the case?  Bottom line is maybe they should simply change their sales techniques?

But staying with MTN as a possible client do they themselves not use a form of "blackmail" in selling?  
You get THIS PHONE FOR FREE
provided you buy this contract for 24 months with it

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## Dave A

Good points, Debbie. But to me there are some *buts*



> I personally advocate that I want to hear the complaint at all times and be given the chance to sort it out.  That way we ALL move forward.


Absolutely no contest there. But do you want to hear them via hellopeter.com and pay for the privilege, or would you rather hear them directly.

I'm not buying the implied justification that servicing a complaint via hellopeter.com is somehow going to cost less than handling it directly.

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## Sieg

my bit on the hellopeter website:

I actually do not care how much the likes of MTN, SAA, iTalk, etc have to pay. They know how much bad publicity is worth i.e. the negative value such would have on their bottom line and how much they are prepared to pay Peter Cheales. Peter is in business. He wants to make money. If he is making money from this website, good for him. 

The website works. I have had Virgin Money, iTwak, RCI, etc all very quickly coming to the party, thanks to complaints lodged on the website. It was truly amazing to see how quickly a larger organization can indeed respond when the complaint goes onto the website. This is quite in contrast to the tardiness and lethargy these same organizations display to numerous calls, letters and e mails!

Viva www.hellopeter.com, viva!

I will regularly log onto the website just to read the complaints. How about the latest scam by Sir Richard Virgin to sell life cover via his blingo credit card by negative marketing, which is verboten, as we know? At least hellopeter has exposed this.

Sieg

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## Debbiedle

> I'm not buying the implied justification that servicing a complaint via hellopeter.com is somehow going to cost less than handling it directly.


The fact is the companies are NOT "hearing directly" as I guess about 99% of people would first phone the company they have a complaint with, IT IS NOT BEING HEARD, and then they go to hellopeter, in that order.

THIS to me is what I will be paying for, a no nonsense, unsmoothed rendition of the facts that can have my company lose market share.  

These complaints are obviously better managed, higher on the agenda and not hidden nor ignored They are dealt with quickly, more efficiently, possibly at a higher management level and are thus "cheaper" 

I therefore do buy the fact that in our existing corporate world it may be cheaper to field a complaint through hellopeter - simply because our internal mechanisms place emphasis on the wrong things, for example systems rather than clients.

But I remain with you on the transparency issue - tell me what you are trying to sell me, don't blackmail me into it, not if you are Richard Branson, Old Mutual, HelloPeter or the cashier at Spar - no matter how tough I make my own life, I will walk ......and this is why I sometimes think I shouldn't be in business!

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## Dave A

I think this thread is really showing up the tricky subtleties of this.

I've used hellopeter.com myself with an issue I had with a rather well known printer manufacturer. There is no doubt that the problem was escalated way quicker than it was "going through the system." I was (and to some extent still am) a hellopeter.com fan.

My objection really hangs on two points:
*You're branded as a company that does not respond (if you do not pay up).*
If the consumer can make public untested allegations for free, the company should be allowed to respond on the same footing. Remember, the allegations of misconduct are not investigated for validity first. This is definitely not consumer journalism, which takes a far more responsible approach towards verification before publication. Ultimately, the company might be more than willing to respond - just unwilling or unable to pay for the privilege(?) or right(?).

*Trying to justify the spend on a cost saving basis is invalid.*
Face it. This is a marketing spend. And you're being forced to spend it in a specific direction or take the consequences of unanswered innuendo.

I know that with my issue with the printer manufacturer, they did not save a cent servicing the complaint because it went via hellopeter.com. And now with this new knowledge, I know it definitely cost them more than if they had simply resolved it directly.

At an emotional response level, our knee jerk reaction is in favour of the little guy, and we've all probably suffered at the hands of an uncaring "customer care" department of a large organisation on more than one occasion.

However, how would you as a small business owner feel if a disgruntled client vented their spleen on hellopeter.com and you were faced with coughing up R12 000.00 to say "Heck. I'm so sorry to hear that. You should have let me know. Let's get this sorted out for you."

For a classic example of size of the "victim" altering point of view, try this Google loses $1 billion US a year to click fraud thread on another forum for size.

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## duncan drennan

I just received an email from Hello Peter, and found this part quite interesting, and in the light of the above, it raises a few questions.




> Like you drew our attention to a whole lot of Compliments (all of a sudden) about Matrix Warehouse, and sure enough, they were written by foolish employees of the company. Same thing with Bulk Promotions, and as for AmazingvouchersÃ¢â¬Â¦
> 
> YouÃ¢â¬â¢ll notice that I changed all the Ã¢â¬ÅComplimentsÃ¢â¬Â to Complaints, exposed the names and contact details of the culprits, and feature them on the Companies Who DonÃ¢â¬â¢t list.
> 
> Many of you emailed us querying how Amazingvouchers could constantly garner so many Compliments. We checked it out and spoke to the powers that be who assured us that the compliments were from satisfied customers. And they were! Problem was that the staff was telling the customers, Ã¢â¬ÅWeÃ¢â¬â¢ll give you a refund. Just give us a Compliment.Ã¢â¬Â This manipulation has to stop. But it didnÃ¢â¬â¢t. Amazingvouchers then encouraged itÃ¢â¬â¢s staff by means of a competition to see how many compliments the members of staff could extract from their customers.
> 
> Now I have absolutely no problem with customers writing compliments about their suppliers. In fact I love it. The more compliments, the better. But when my site is compromised by unscrupulous suppliers going hell for leather in a bid to whitewash rather dubious sales techniques, that makes me MAD.
> 
> Quote from email newsletter which I can't find an online link to


I certainly wonder what is going on behind the scenes with this. Where their customers happy they were receiving a rebate for a compliment? I'm pretty sure. Do these companies have the opportunity to respond to complaints against them? Not any more, because they've been listed as "Companies that don't respond." Was it right to give customers money to give compliments? Probably not. Does that make their customer service bad (the point of Hello Peter)? Not necessarily.

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## bullfrog

I have to agree and wanted to post up this email to some forums too, to expose hellopeter.com for the kind of people they are. The right course of action in my opinion would be to remove the false compliments and possibly remove the company from the compliment list for a certain period, but making them complaints and putting the company on the don't respond list seems a bit too much.

It really sounds like the site is being run too emotionally and personally, instead of in a professional manner it should be run...considering that they're working with business names and reputations.

I've also read some stories where they have some quite childish behavior when it comes to receiving complaints about themselves. Can't remember the incident exactly, but it was on myadsl.co.za if I'm not mistaken. Do we really want something as important as our business names and reputations being handled by people who can't handle their own emotions?

Now considering this, how hard is it really for them to act as disgruntled users for the sake of making some more money on the quieter months?

I really do like the idea of the site though and think the basic idea is good but don't like the idea as a small business owner that I would have to pay to sort out a customer issue that could have been sorted out directly. That being said I would most probably spend the money should I appear on hellopeter.com even though it goes against principal. I would do my best not to be put on hellopeter in the first place  :Wink:

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## Dave A

I can't help but think of the law of unintended consequences.

The moment they commercialised the right to respond, it was only a matter of time before a company maximised it's ROI.

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## duncan drennan

> I really do like the idea of the site though and think the basic idea is good but don't like the idea as a small business owner that I would have to pay to sort out a customer issue that could have been sorted out directly. That being said I would most probably spend the money should I appear on hellopeter.com even though it goes against principal. I would do my best not to be put on hellopeter in the first place


Well, to a degree, this is the kind of thing were blogs, and so on can help. You can use your own platform to explain the situation and the remedy. It may not be as high profile as Hello Peter, but it does allow you to respond on your own terms.

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## Chatmaster

OK, I am going to make some ripples here, as I wish for this topic to be discussed properly and from all angles.

hellopeter.com is a business extortion site.

I am truly amazed that hellopeter has received the support it has until now. The business concept imo is a very good one but the fact that companies has to pay to register is a concept that borders the criminal. How on earth can any website or public forum require payment from any party to respond to complaints against them. What on earth is wrong here? Look at the complete website. Peter is clearly out on making money on natural consumers reactions. This has nothing to do with solving issues! Solving issues is just a natural marketing benefit for Peter. The concept is plain and simple to make money of the consumer and the normal human reaction to complain and the natural reaction of business to make it go away at any costs.

I mean we have talked about these issues before on this forum, where people has a natural tendency for not taking responsibility for their actions. Also from a marketing point of view, what better way for Peter to get word of mouth going than to "resolve" issues. I say that in quotes because like most of us know, bad publicity can be used in many ways by business. But most businesses will pay money to just let it go away and give a nice response.

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## Marq

> This has nothing to do with solving issues! Solving issues is just a natural marketing benefit for Peter. The concept is plain and simple to make money of the consumer and the normal human reaction to complain and the natural reaction of business to make it go away at any costs.


Quite right! 
I have used this site a couple of times and not had any successful resolve. If fact my last complaint I posted three times with a BS answer every time. Did anybody really care? Doubtful!!

Hello Peter is no more than a cheap help desk mechanism for these large corporates. Most of those that claim to respond do so on the basis that -  we are sorry that you had a problem hope it is resolved. One goes around in circles and there is no sincere effort to really fix the problem. 

To complain one has to register with cell phone and email addresses - I would not be surprised if this site sells mail lists as well and keeps the spam world going.

It would appear that another 'altruist' is not what he seems.

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## Eugene

"hellopeter.com is a business extortion site"

I quite agree - just wonder when a company with slam them with a nifty slander case...

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## Dave A

> just wonder when a company with slam them with a nifty slander case...


Hmm. You're the lawyer so I'll be guided by you on this. But I've kinda checked this out in respect of this site (The Forum SA) because in a way it has a similar exposure to this risk.

One of the key crux points around the host's accountability for content is "pre-publication editorial control." Without it (and there is no obligation to excercise pre-publication editorial control), the issue of accountability on the part of the site moves towards traceability. And whilst that is possible (requirement fulfilled), it would be one heck of a process for the party making the request.

I suppose if there was enough money at stake, it might be worth it. But given the nature of South Africa's internet setup, one of those steps would likely involve obtaining the most tediously bulky report from either Telkom or Internet Solutions. Which presents two rather interesting potential challenges - soliciting the report from Telkom, and then finding that needle in a haystack.

The law doesn't require that the trace needs to be easy... And I strongly suspect it won't be unless it comes out of an online private network domain (as in the fascinating Wikipedia edits by Stats SA).

As for how much resistance might be put up along the way - well that is dealt with in our privacy statement. I expect Hello Peter has also done their homework on this.

All this to cross before we get to freedom of speech and citizen journalism type defences, trying to assign a value to the slander, and the distinct possibility that even if the case was won, the guilty person has not got the means to financially satisfy the award anyway.

It all sounds awfully expensive and tedious.

But of course I might be wrong...

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## Chris B

I must first say that I have never used or heard of hellopeter.com untill I've read this thread.
On the outsiders point of view I can say the following:
If I had to be seen under the same light you will probably find that to an extend my business and infact most businesses work on the same principle.
We see a demand for a service or product, we find a way to force customers to use it which in itself makes it viable for other companies to use us...
Peter went and did the same thing as an estate agent would do, being a middle man in a pressing situiation as having to get two parties to agree on something and walk away happy. 
Yes, there will be people who has not found satisfaction in his creation but show me the business that hasn't got unhappy clients. And yes there will always be ways to improve on what he/we do in our ethics, sales technics etc. to improve the perception from the public. I know sales reps who projects far worse promises just to get a sale and some of you know that their in you companies too, but we use them because they get the sales...

To tell you the truth, I think that everyone that doesn't agree with the idea might just be a little bit jelous that they din't think of it first...  :Badpc:

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## Chatmaster

Interesting reply Chris B,

I listened to Peter's response on 702 the other day. It all made sense to me. He is in it to make money and he honestly feel he is delivering an honest service that are worth the fees he charges as he is fulfilling a pr function for the company. There is clearly allot of people supporting his website. Both on the side of the consumer and from business. This also makes sense depending on how you look at it.

Companies should be excited as the site allow them to easily communicate with their consumers and resolve possible problems. This should benefit both small and large pr departments and especially companies without any pr departments. Hellopeter simply SMS or email them the moment there is a complaint about them.
Further Peter made it clear that he calculates the costs based on the amount of complaints they get. The more complaints there is a for a company, the more they will pay. He said the allegations that hellopeter request documentation with the turnover of the business was completely false and that the costs are purely calculated based on the number of complaints they get.

No here is the catch!

If my PR department handles every case they have in public it will be a disaster! I might be able to get some positive marketing out of some complaints. But most people will look at it in the long run and remember all the complaints, apposed to me having a pr department that only response to public complaints and do the washing in public when it is absolutely required. The rest of the complaints are resolved in private. It is also important to note that many complaints can be the fault of the complainant and very often the company the complaint is against did nothing wrong.

Now what role does hellopeter play? All complaints are public, whether or not you as a business have paid the fee or not. You can only respond if you pay the fee which goes to Peter based on his reasoning that he assists you with a pr function at a fraction of the cost. Is this true however?
IMO the answer is no. PR strategies whereby washing is done in public is highly risky. Companies will avoid it all costs as it can be a very complicated thing to handle. You will note that Peter has a very small (but profitable) representation of companies on his site. This makes sense as fortunately only the 400 on his site either felt the heat he generated against them or perhaps they feel they can do with his service, or maybe a few that feels that this is a very successful way of handling PR.

My problem is this. What is the real issue here? 

I sold biltong to Billy from my butchery. A week down the line Billy decides to make a post on Hellopeter because he put the biltong in his fridge and it was filled with maggots this morning. Anny reads it there and realize it is the butchery in her suburb we she buys from. Now the story runs! I find out about the issue from my daughter because someone called her a magget farmer at school. Finally I realize that Billy has reported me on Hellopeter. My butchery is very small and infact I have allot of debt just to get it up and running a few weeks ago. Now Peter wants to charge me R500 to respond and say, guys! This is nonsense, I will give you a new piece of biltong.

The point here is that the concept is flawed, the problem is that peter is getting support from people on both business and consumer and I do not think Peter has the right to charge business any fees as that is not fair to expect it from them.

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## duncan drennan

Seems like there is a growing tide of resentment towards HelloPeter,




> Some call him an extortionist, others a champion of customer service. An anti-Hellopeter website was even started.
> 
> HelloPeter Ã¢â¬â and its owner Peter Cheales Ã¢â¬â is in the firing line from a group of consumers and some companies who feel that the website is an extortion scheme which forces companies to pay to respond to consumers.
> 
> Criticism has also been leveled at the information supplied by the website about its traffic and statistics. An anti-HelloPeter website, hosted at http://hellopeter.wetpaint.com/?t=anon, was started highlighting many of the criticisms aimed at the website in the past.
> 
> Full story on MyBroadBand


If you read the whole article there are a number of interesting comments. This stuck out to me,




> Consumers have also accused the site for deleting comments, something which can get a disgruntled customer hot under the collar. In one such case Ã¢â¬â aimed at HelloPeter itself Ã¢â¬â Cheales simply replied Ã¢â¬ÅSunday afternoon and I really canÃ¢â¬â¢t be bothered to respond to childish drivel Ã¢â¬â PeterÃ¢â¬Â, something which drew sharp criticism from some observers.


Now, whatever the particular case was is not so important, but the way things are handled is. I've seen this type of behaviour elsewhere before and it breaks down community in the long run - and the basis of this type of site is a strong community. Lose that, and there is no reason for customers to use it, or companies to respond.

Interesting times ahead.

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## Chatmaster

> Consumers have also accused the site for deleting comments, something which can get a disgruntled customer hot under the collar. In one such case Ã¢â¬â aimed at HelloPeter itself Ã¢â¬â Cheales simply replied Ã¢â¬ÅSunday afternoon and I really canÃ¢â¬â¢t be bothered to respond to childish drivel Ã¢â¬â PeterÃ¢â¬Â, something which drew sharp criticism from some observers.


Well Peter did admit to this in his radio interview with 702. His explanation was that he deleted repeated posts to prevent duplication.

Ironically the so called "PR genius" has his own PR problem to deal with. I am also afraid that this time he might not be able to sort it out, the Internet doesn't take kindly on people that underestimates its power.

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## Chatmaster

I also would like to comment on the Traffic stats that Peter claims he is getting. Many people has had things to say about it.



10mil Hits?
This is absolutely possible if you look at the definition of a hit. I mean if he has a mountain of images, .js files etc that loads with every page, he can easily get that amount of hits, regardless of the amount of unique visitors he gets.

From my experience, I would estimate Hellopeter's traffic at no more than 15,000 unique visitors a day. That is about 10,000 over what I really believe it is, just because Google has over 70,000 pages indexed, and that means that they can probably rank for any kind of keyword and get all kinds of untargeted traffic. (The SEO on this site is really poorly done)

For example if you take his customer with the largest amount of complaints and do searches on it, SA Only results on Google, you will not find his site under the top 10. The keyword is "Telkom"

2,000 comments each day?

His own website reveals the truth here. 

Go to VIEW COMMENTS
Ensure that you select "all" Countries and "2 days ago", then click search.
Result is 510 results (FOR 2 DAYS). My maths says that this is a bit short of 2,000 per day.
Ensure that you select "all" Countries and "10 days ago", then click search.
Result is 1853 results (FOR 10 DAYS). My maths says that this is a bit short of 2,000 per day.
Over 90 days there has been 17311 complaints added. The average per day is then 192 per day!

Now something that completely bugs me about Peter.
If you look at the play of words on his site! Is this guy serious about everything he says? I mean seriously! If there is one thing I HATE, it is if someone treats me as a fool. He is doing exactly that. It started for the first time in 2001, In one of these speaker books. But let me take this example now!

At the bottom of his home page.
"The world's most viewed comments" "The world's most"
Please define this for me Peter! You have NOTHING, nadda, none, no idea what this means! You do not even have one comment from any other country available through your search! Only South Africa! His world is really tiny  :Rant1: 

Sorry guys I am loosing it here! Time to go for a swim. :Fish:

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## Dave A

Maybe a swim is a good idea, Chatmaster. Summer is coming fast  :Stick Out Tongue: 

My original unease was borne from the conditions around the classification of companies that don't respond. Now it's been a while since I last looked so I took a quick peek now.

Certainly no shortage of companies listed, but there is also this piece of text at the top:



> The companies listed below have had a minimum of five comments written about them in the last year. As they are not subscribers, they cannot respond to your comments, because they are not provided with your contact details. 
> 
> Once a Company subscribes and becomes a Company Who Responds, it is removed from this list and transferred onto the list of Companies Who Respond, so enjoying all the benefits of existing Companies Who Respond.
> from this page


They might not be able to respond directly to the person, but Peter (if I've got this right) does not allow them to respond in the form of a message on the site either without coughing up a fee.



> Ironically the so called "PR genius" has his own PR problem to deal with.


Well there's not much wrong with his marketing! The old saying goes "There's no such thing as bad publicity." I wonder how many hits he got today.

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## Chatmaster

I often like to argue that bad publicity is a fantastic opportunity for any business. There are some examples where I would much rather NOT have bad publicity though  :Big Grin: 

I think Peter has a serious problem here. He has clearly made several false statements and it is coming back to haunt him. Under such circumstances bad publicity might hurt you rather than help you. I think it is time he reinvent his business model and listen to what people are trying to tell him. He has an excellent site, but an unfair business model. Fix it and he will not look back!

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Isn't it funny how the "champion of consumer service" is a SCAM ARTIST himself?  I agree with you CM that any publicity is good for a business, but what Peter has gotten himself into will see his ship slowly sinking...  preferable somewhere offshore in deep waters...

I posted a message on the wetpaint wiki, stating that if I should have to pay R13,500 right now, I might as well close my doors...  I still believe that if a client doesn't contact me first to try and sort out a problem, then they haven't really tried at all.

In todays corporate environment where companies plough through their customers first and make amends later, it's not an unlikely situation where a company will ignore a client until they go public about their issues. Then only will the company respond and sort it out...

But, like the poster on the wiki said, having to pay an exuberant fee to only reply to a client who was in breach of contract, makes them seem as if they were the faulty party.

For small companies who are watching their budget, I still believe that if a client doesn't contact you directly first, and makes sure he speaks to the owner/manager to get it sorted, then they have reason to go to someone like hellopeter...

For myself, also being a small company, I reckon it's rather a case of byebyepeter than hellopeter...  I'd rather a client phone me up at 2am in the morning stating that he got the wrong stuff or his new build is not happening because of faulty stuff, than have my company name smeared over the internet without a chance of me sorting it out first...

Even though I have never had issues with any of my clients, I dread the day when I get a SCAMmail from byebyepeter instead of a phone call from my client first...

so, byebyepeter  :Wave:

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## RKS Computer Solutions

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...ellopeter.com/

the alexa stats for the site shows it's in decline...  he might get a few spikes about the news stories flying around, but it will die a slow death indeed...

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## RKS Computer Solutions

another thought...

why is hellopeter themselves not listed under companies who don't respond?

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## Chatmaster

Well reading the article on MyADSL. He is getting in the region of 34 416 Unique visitors per month. This is very realistic, but makes me ask even more questions about what Peter is saying on his website. OK, so lets be honest about one thing. Hellopeter definitely has successes with consumer complaints, and many people are extremely happy about their service. It will definitely not just disappear of the map, just like that!

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## RKS Computer Solutions

But he will be a null on a contract in the eyes of the small company...

Would you trust any details regarding visitors he's given through to anyone after his story keeps on changing?  I personally would trust only figures I see when logged onto his server and call pull those stats directly...

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## duncan drennan

> For small companies who are watching their budget, I still believe that if a client doesn't contact you directly first, and makes sure he speaks to the owner/manager to get it sorted, then they have reason to go to someone like hellopeter...


I _think_ for most clients they have already exhausted their options by the time they go to a site like HelloPeter. The problem is when they don't get through to the manager/owner/etc. Most companies big/small would respond if an unhappy client got through to the owner, and what would the owner do? Probably crap out the person that should have dealt with it. And what is the direct consequence of that? The person who should deal with it will go out of their way to ensure that the client does *not* get through to the owner/manger....which leads to them going to HelloPeter.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

I agree with you Duncan, but then how do I go about proving that my customer service is better than any other company in SA?

I will be the first to tell you that general customer service in SA is crap, but having spent 5 years in Europe and the surrounds, I've picked up a thing or two in regards to how a customer should be treated and I brought that mentality to SA with me...  

All the contact details on my site leads directly to the mobile phone I carry by me 100% of the time, so anyone saying they couldn't reach me, must be pretty sure the cell networks were completely dead and the internet destroyed before they can claim that...

Ho do I then, as a small business owner, go about business in such a way as to be the first option a client thinks of contacting?

----------


## duncan drennan

> I agree with you Duncan, but then how do I go about proving that my customer service is better than any other company in SA?


Is this really something that can be promoted effectively directly?

----------


## Chatmaster

Something else that bothers me is the compliments on Peter's site. How many of those are posted by the company employees themselves? What procedures does peter have in place to ensure honesty there? I know it is impossible to keep false testimonials out, but does he at least log the IP on a post or do some kind of confirmation?

----------


## RKS Computer Solutions

I doubt it, *word of mouth* is still the best manner in which to achieve status, but what to do when your clients are not the chatty type?  I've received referrals by word of mouth from corporates, but those people still don't tend to go posting about it on the net where the majority of society can see it...

----------


## RKS Computer Solutions

Hey CM, I recall something being mentioned beforehand about companies pulling that trick... can't find the link now...

I just posted a link to this thread on the wetpaint wiki, let's welcome new members into the discussion.

----------


## Chatmaster

Funny to see the amount of Anonymous users and then RKS pops out  :Big Grin:

----------


## RKS Computer Solutions

problem with anonymity is that it can be abused...  The guy who responded on my post for instance, seems to be a MrWireless who posts on mybroadband but when asked about his involvement in a message regarding owners of mybroadband hiding behind their internet names, he still hasn't responded...

** this person could have only referred to the certain post...

I have my companies best interest at heart, why would I want to hide behind anonymity? It affects each and every one of us running a small business, if I have to put my name out there and be a voice, then so be it...  If you can't go into the outside world and make your comments with your name attached, I reckon you should rather just keep quiet...

Or am I wrong CM?

----------


## Chatmaster

I agree with you completely. I hate it when someone hides behind anonymity. Besides your response is in good taste and reflects good on your reputation.

I would like to quote the following email i received from Peter yesterday.




> I launched Hellopeter.com seven years ago. It was the first time a site of this nature had been created anywhere in the world Ã¢â¬â brand new, uniqueÃ¢â¬Â¦ basically, a glorified blog site before blog sites came into being. With one huge difference: companies could Respond to Comments on the site by paying an annual subscription fee (which also includes a whole lot of other benefits). 
> 
> As with any innovation, there was opposition. How can you expose complaints about my company to the public? How dare you, Peter Cheales, youÃ¢â¬â¢re a dead man. IÃ¢â¬â¢m buggered if IÃ¢â¬â¢m going to respond to my customers, theyÃ¢â¬â¢re talking a load of bull (all real emails).  
> 
> Then big companies cottoned on to the idea. Hang on a sec. Real world research houses charge a fortune to survey our customers and obtain feedback, much of it artificial. If this site works and gives us our feedback Ã¢â¬Åstraight from the horseÃ¢â¬â¢s mouthÃ¢â¬Â, unsolicited at less than 1% of what real world research companies charge, can we turn it to our advantage?
> 
> Maybe we can educate our customers and everyone else with our Supplier Responses. Turn those complaints into complimentsÃ¢â¬Â¦ And so began the arduous audits by companies to determine the validity of Hellopeter.com. WhatÃ¢â¬â¢s to stop a competitor from writing a damaging comment? What happens if an employee writes a favourable comment about his/her own company? What happens if thereÃ¢â¬â¢s a blatantly untrue comment, or if it contains swearing, racist remarks etc?
> 
> Verifications, checks and balances were installed; together with swear word filters and real live editors. The site exploded and shifted from an epidemic to a pandemic. Millions of hits a month, thousands of comments a day, hundreds of subscribers, 399 on the dot!
> ...


and




> The question is, if a company doesnÃ¢â¬â¢t comply with certain rules of Hellopeter.com, do we prevent it from being a Company Who Responds? The argument Ã¢â¬ËforÃ¢â¬â¢ is obvious. The argument Ã¢â¬ËagainstÃ¢â¬â¢ is that if we do, then NONE of your problems will be addressed, which defeats the purpose of the site. 
> 
> One thing I know for sure: by far the vast majority of you use this site in the manner for which it is intended: to write constructive complaints when you feel the need to, and have the courtesy to offer Compliments to the Companies Who Respond when theyÃ¢â¬â¢re resolved. And for that, I thank you all so much.


It tells us how he feels about his site, and probably that he is genuine in his intentions. I really trying to keep myself neutral about Hellopeter.com as far as possible, although I am irritated about the way he bends facts and blatantly lie about stats. The aforementioned also cause me to doubt many of his words and do not know what to believe and what not.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

One major problem I have with Peter and his BS, is the fact that nowhere is there a clear set of rules for charging a company in a certain sector...

I've now put my name out there, and if Peter is the kind of guy that bothers to read what is written about him and his company in the media, he will now know off me and my company.

What stops him from making a false claim about me, and charging me whatever he so wishes to reply because he can?  I'm not saying that he will make false claims, but it is pretty obvious that if he attacks companies in his newsletters because of them not wanting to pay for his service, that he would be inclined to make sure other forms of bad media about him is dealt with in a similar fashion...

What stops Peter form tagging my company for future reference and if any complaints do come in against my company, make sure that I pay the heaviest fee possible because I was the one who put my name out there and had the balls to put a name to my post?

I don't know Peter from a bar of soap, but I'm pretty sure our paths are going to cross before too long, and when that day comes, and he tries to charge me his fees, I'm not too sure what the outcome will be...

One thing will be for damned sure though, I refuse to pay some exuberant fee to clear my name from a system which is not open for inspection from the outside, and can be misused as have been proven in the past.

PS -- Thanks for the compliment CM, appreciate it!

----------


## Dave A

Well if you choose *not* to pay, you will definitely not be alone! It's a fairly long list.

I think that maybe the main thing is that people understand exactly what that list means. I used to think it was companies who gave bad service and didn't give a damn. Now I see that it as companies who choose not to pay to respond.

In similar vein, there is at least one company on that *Companies who do respond* list that provides the most shocking service, so that list isn't necessarily too much in the way of assurance either.

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## duncan drennan

> I used to think it was companies who gave bad service and didn't give a damn. Now I see that it as companies who choose not to pay to respond.


There is the whole key to this issue, and also its solution. The message is that "Companies who don't respond" are bad - anyone who doesn't pay gets grouped together with a bunch of companies who possibly don't give a damn. Most users are unlikely to ever know or realise how the response setup and payment works.

The solution is quite simple - make it blatantly clear what a company on that list is. They are simply not paying clients of Peter. If he makes this clear (no matter the change in perception) I think his problems will go away. Would he be willing to do this? I have my doubts.

----------


## bullfrog

> The solution is quite simple - make it blatantly clear what a company on that list is. They are simply not paying clients of Peter. If he makes this clear (no matter the change in perception) I think his problems will go away. Would he be willing to do this? I have my doubts.


Like you said, he probably won't make that fact clear as it would mean that he loses some of his power. Some business owners would rather pay the fee and respond than be perceived as a non caring or bad business.  If everyone knows what that list is it would mean that more companies would stand up to it because they and the users of the site know that it doesn't mean that the company is bad. He would lose his power and his earning potential as his visitors will know that his list means nothing.

That is the reason that I believe that as a consumer and business owner that it becomes my duty to make this known to people. It's only to expose the truth. I hate the fact that someone is making money by lying and being dishonest and have a firm belief that people like that should get what's coming to them!

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## Dave A

Maybe those submit tools at the top of the thread will help.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

http://hellopeter.wetpaint.com/page/...be+blackmailed.




> RE: My company will not be blackmailed.
> Anonymous  Today, 3:36 AM EDT Well should we put HelloPeter to the test? I'll lay a complaint against your company, lets see what price HelloPeter comes back with?


This is the kind of person that is the whole reason why hellopeter is probably been able to make his money, and keep lying about how he goes about his business...

I agree with both Duncan and Bullfrog, being dishonest and not having the correct wording for what he does and how he classifies companies, are a major issue...

As can be seen in the post above made by Mr Anonymous, I would have to dock up to answer a false claim, and for what? Some person who hides behind his name and thinks it's OK to smear a companies name in order to get a point across?

I think the entire hellopeter thing is a shambolic idiocracy...

----------


## Chatmaster

I think Peter is more a salesman than a PR guru, to be honest. He continuously make me feel like I am at a 2nd hand car dealership where the salesman knows he turned back the speedo!

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## RKS Computer Solutions

> I think Peter is more a salesman than a PR guru, to be honest. He continuously make me feel like I am at a 2nd hand car dealership where the salesman knows he turned back the speedo!


hehehe

----------


## Dave A

I feel like I should be saying something, but I can't get the balance on what I'm trying to convey right.

I know there's a line not to cross - but the difficulty is that Peter is so intertwined with the message of his site, exactly where that line might be is a bit trickier than usual to define. 

In boxing terms - let's not let those punches get too close to the belt if we can help it, please.

/Damn - still sounds like a threadkiller  :Frown:

----------


## Chatmaster

Just a note.

Peter is currently surveying his subscribers for feedback on his site. He is handling it pretty well, but the main issue to me is, he is intending to make changes. Maybe he has heard the voices and are planning something to fix all this. I personally will now sit back and see what happens.

----------


## RKS Computer Solutions

Will you keep us updated please?

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## Chatmaster

I certainly will. He received feedback from over 4,000 subscribers on how to improve his site. I have been receiving these emails daily now, so hopefully that means he is in a hurry to make changes.

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## Dave A

Consulting the market is a good PR move. A survey so that you get what you want.

Let's face it - he wrote the book!

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Receiving feedback from subscribers is great.  Whether or not he will implement those things close to his heart, is another story...

Consulting the market is a good PR move, agreed, but how about surveying those companies that hasn't paid his fees, finding out how he can make it easier for them. How about surveying businesses in SA to get their feedback?

*He might have wrote the book on PR, but will his lies come back to haunt him?*

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## Chatmaster

Riaan, to be honest I foresee that he will come out on top. He is going to turn all this bad publicity into good publicity and still charge fees in the same way he did before. I can't wait to learn from the master. It starts to feel like I am watching a world champion chess player outsmart his opponent.

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## duncan drennan

I think this post on MyBroadband is quite relevant,




> Not 100% sure where that R13 000 figure comes from!
> 
> We had a complaint about my company. Was not founded, so we asked for the right to reply. They sent though a quotation, and for a year subscription was R800.00
> 
> This includes advertising on their front page.
> 
> R800 for a small business is a small price to pay for advertising and being able to respond. Whoever wrote that article was exaggerating the costs.


How it is determined how much you pay, that I'm not too sure about...

Does anyone know anything about "right of reply" in the journalistic sense? Is this just an ethical thing that journalist do?

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## Chatmaster

Something stinks here Duncan. I heard Peter make a clear statement on 702 confirming that he had a sliding scale costing structure. He clearly said so.

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## duncan drennan

> Something stinks here Duncan. I heard Peter make a clear statement on 702 confirming that he had a sliding scale costing structure. He clearly said so.


I'm not too sure I follow (the smell that is). The post would confirm that it is a sliding scale - a small business pays a smaller fee than a large one. I'm guessing that the sliding scale is a function of (a) number of complaints, (b) size of company, (c) perceived value for company.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

> Riaan, to be honest I foresee that he will come out on top.


It's not so much about him coming out on top as it is that business in general in SA should come out on top...  And for the customer to know that if they complain about something, that the company concerned actually has the same rights as them in answering, and not having to pay for the chance...




> I think this post on MyBroadband is quite relevant,
> 
> How it is determined how much you pay, that I'm not too sure about...


That is a question asked above before, and if CM can pass that question through to Peter, and get a decent answer and not just "determined by your market and size"...

----------


## Chatmaster

Unfortunately I do not have contact with Peter in any way to ask him anything. The discussion with John Robbie was handled in a very clever way. John specifically confronted him with figures and he didn't deny the figures. If I remember correctly it was between R13,000 and R65,000. Peter never admitted this, instead he explained why the fees are there and tried to explain the story about acting as a PR department for the company and the costs are based on the amount of complaints a company get. So it is as simple as I didn't admit it so I can deny the fees structures at any time. Nor can my existing customers say I lied by denying it.

Then just remember. Charging any fee, no matter how small, still defeats the purpose!

----------


## Dave A

Peter can wriggle, squirm and tap dance all he likes. For me the core issues remain the same:
Consumers can publish unsubstantiated complaints for freeCompanies may only respond for a feeThat fee seems to be based on a what-the-market-can-bear modelCompanies that don't pay are branded as companies that do not respond/don't care.
No matter how financially brilliant this might be, the _modus operandi_ is rather uncomfortably similar to that of a blackmailer.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Ditto Dave! and Bravo!  :Thumbup: 

What do you guys make of this?

http://hellopeter.wetpaint.com/page/...be+blackmailed.




> Anonymous   Today, 2:14 AM EDT  1 Annual registration is what he wants , idiot you are paying for it
> 2 wow getting the customers details is great i wouldnt expect anything less,idiot you are paying for it
> 3 wow you gwt an email, give me an address for yourself ill send you one, idiot you are paying for it
> 4 geez a free sms wow even FNB will do it for "free" idiot you are paying for it
> 5 supplier response idiot you are paying for it
> 6 update response idiot you are paying for it
> 7 Hyperlink idiot you are paying for it
> 8 Customer response rating idiot you are paying for it
> 9 Newsflash "have you seen how many companies are on his HomePage" only the companies that are working for him GO CHECK
> ...

----------


## Marq

The latest email / spam from hellopeter starts off with this:-




> WeÃ¢â¬â¢re moving! Afrihost is about to be our new ISP. I was approached a while ago by Gian Visser at Afrihost who proposed some exciting ideas. And he couldnÃ¢â¬â¢t have come along at a better time. We were tearing our hair out with DataPro Ã¢â¬â a young Gary Sweidan instructed his team to supply us with nothing more than a box. Ã¢â¬ÅItÃ¢â¬â¢s not our job to help you Ã¢â¬Â¦Ã¢â¬Â. Strange, but true.


So how much did Afrihost pay Peter Cheales to get the benefits of the thousands of names that hellopeter should have by now? 

Do you think He used the hellopeter site to complain against Datapro? There is one complaint without a user being named there, that could be. He didnt get a response then either. The only funny entry was the one I found complaining about hellopeter who had registered this Datapro as a company who responded, when they had not responded to the complaints at all.  

Do you think it's immoral, that a site of this nature, who harvests emails from the various parties in a complaining and vulnerable position should be able to use those email addresses to praise and abuse suppliers in this fashion for their own gratification?

Is it any different to me complaining about my isp and telling the forum and the world out there not to use Webstorm as I got a bum deal there? :Confused:

----------


## Ann Williams

HelloPeter actually sends out an e-mail to all of the people on its list saying that DataPro sucks and therefore they are moving?! :Confused: 

Even if DataPro was pretty bad with their service in comparison to the new guys, do they deserve this kind of dissing? He's jolly lucky that DataPro are not suing him in the same way that Oprah got sued by beef farmers for exclaiming on her show that she didn't realise that "hamburgers are that bad for us". 

I think that anyone with the kind of public clout that Peter Cheales has needs to be more responsible than targeting one particular supplier. Quite frankly I don't think most murderers in South Africa get as much negative publicity as what this may have done for DataPro. :No:

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## Dave A

I wonder how much DataPro would have to pay to be allowed to respond via the same media vehicle?

As an aside, I'm staggered at just how much a serious lawsuit costs nowadays.

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## Chatmaster

> We were tearing our hair out with DataPro – a young Gary Sweidan instructed his team to supply us with nothing more than a box. “It’s not our job to help you …”. Strange, but true.


The irony of this is that Datapro is most probably one of the largest and best hosting companies in the country. If I need something from them the response is normally HUGE and things were sorted immediately, they constantly walked that extra mile for me. Besides that, what company will tell you, it is not their job if it is? This is sickening from a person of Peter's stature and I do not believe this statement for one second.

----------


## duncan drennan

Now I found this fascinating, Telkom is no loger a company that responds, which has resulted in it jumping to the top of the 

This was the bit that surprised me,




> Telkom often appeared at the top of the complaints list before becoming a company who responds – which involves an annual fee and safeguards companies from appearing on this list.


Well, I suppose it makes sense, if you are a "company who responds" then you won't appear on the companies who don't respond list.

Having a look at the site again there are two lists, top complimented company that responds, and top complaint company who does not respond.

Two missing lists there, top complaint company that does respond, and top complimented company that does not respond. Essentially the companies that do respond are shielded in a way from direct bad publicity.

Seems to defeat the purpose a bit - if you suck, you suck, whether you respond or not. Surely paying an annual fee should not keep you out of the spotlight?

----------


## apropos

I have used Hellopeter 10 times now, all with great results from the companies. Yes they WERE all companies that do respond (big corps) but if you take the leaque the likes of Vodacom, Edgars, MTN etc run, it is correct to claim that a fee of R60K is fair. It's a drop in their budget bucket, for the use of a great site like Hellopeter.

For the smaller companies, I agree with bullfrog-you are small and therefor it is WRONG for someone to even go and complain about you! Smaller companies are supposed to be so service related nowadays, they probably deserve the negative publicity they might receive on Hellopeter.

I do have a problem with companies that misuse the system i.e. Amazing Vouchers and deserve to be "blacklisted" on Hellopeter. Surely Dave would "ban" or "blacklist" me if I had to misuse this forum/site?


The FACT remains that Hellopeter was established to assist the CONSUMER before making any decisions on a new purchase i.e. 3G or Nokia or Webmail. So convenient to search the site, and make your (rightfully yours) informed decision before acting upon it. Companies that want to stay in the kitchen, has to pay the price to handle the heat. 

I also see many "unknown" companies listed as "newest companies that respond". Surely they did'nt cough up R13K for that? Hellopeter has never come across to me as a company/website/service provider that acts unfair or     
unapproachable.  :Confused: 

I will continue to use Hellopeter, because I sometimes enjoy the way the bigger corps  :Censored: themselves when they get that complaint. And no I did not only complain. I have a healthy 4 compliments vs 6 complaints sitting on Hellopeter. And it felt good  :Big Grin:  to give those compliments, because those companies really deserved it.... :Drunk: 

It is time us consumers stand together, and stop eating the  :Chair:  the world tries to feed us everyday. It is a form of "de-sensitising" us from good proper fair value-for-money service and product we deserve.

----------


## Dave A

Welcome apropos. And thank you for your views.

I think your post highlights why this is a dilemma.

Hellopeter works! It produces results for consumers where traditional methods have failed. But is that as a result of the fact that companies have to pay fees to respond? Or as a result of the prospect of negative publicity?

How many companies that are listed as "Companies who do not respond" would in fact respond, and even service the consumer, but for the matter of a fee to Peter Cheales for the privilege?

And is the option of being able to respond a privilege - or a right?

For the consumer to insist that a business *should* pay a fee to respond is essentially vindictive, and does not contribute to them getting their complaint addressed.

----------


## Chatmaster

My biggest issue with HP is the fact that he offers no value to businesses. Blackmailing them to respond doesn't mean he adds value. The number of Small to Medium business far outnumber the bigger businesses that can afford to pay the fees, and probably do get some value out of PR. The fact that consumers can state anything they like and a busines has to pay to respond is a flaw and will stay that way for as long as his business model stays the way it is.

----------


## Marq

> Smaller companies are supposed to be so service related nowadays, they probably deserve the negative publicity they might receive on Hellopeter.


Oh Really?




> The FACT remains that Hellopeter was established to assist the CONSUMER before making any decisions on a new purchase


Oh Really




> Nothing wrong with Hellopeter


Oh Really?




> I also see many "unknown" companies listed as "newest companies that respond".


Gosh!!!

Welcome to hellopeter?

----------


## apropos

Thank you Dave for the welcome. And Chatmaster for your input. 

I think that companies may choose to pay for the _priviledge_ to join Hellopeter, and that they will add value to their PR by having access to:

_ 1.  Registration and set up

   1. Email Notification : Immediate notification by email each time hellopeter.com receives a comment bearing your name in the Supplier panel.

   1. Customer's Contact Details: Each comment is submitted with a user name. Companies Who Respond receive name, email and telephone number of customer.

   1. SMS Notification: In addition to the email notification you have the option to receive a FREE sms on your cell phone alerting you to comments on the site.

   1. Supplier's Response: The right to reply. Each time a comment is made about your company, you have the right to respond on the site and contact the customer directly.

   1. Update Response: The facility to respond in more detail to existing comments when new information comes to hand.

   1. Hyperlink your Company Website: By supplying a hyperlink next to your company's name, users can click through to your own website.

   1. Customer Feedback: Users are asked to rate your response to their comments 36 hours after posting a comment.

   1. Newsflashes: Home page publicity for your company. Special offers, discounts, announcements may all be publicised._

And after all, this being a forum, I actually went and swotted a bit on the Hellopeter website (so that I could add more valuable input to this discussion than "Oh Really" this and "Oh Really" that) and noticed the following regarding the fees:

_http://www.hellopeter.com/comp_subscription.asp.
PLEASE NOTE: there is an annual registration, set-up and admin. fee payable by EVERY Company Who Responds. The annual fee is R315.00 excl. VAT. Companies are also charged an Annual Response Fee according to the number of comments made about them. Companies with less than 4 comments pay NO Annual Response Fee._

Lovely to see that it is even affordable for a small company like mine, and that this at last destroys all rumors and false allegations on the "fees"  previously speculated about.

The way I see it, fraud, misuse and abuse by the companies and their staff in question which has resulted in the removal of their profiles from the Hellopeter site, has re-labled the "every action has a consequence" law of life as "blackmailing".

----------


## Dave A

Is there a package deal where I as a company can respond to a complaint at the same fee rate as a consumer pays to lay a complaint?

Without all the bells and whistles, of course.

----------


## Chatmaster

apropos, Peter should put you on his payroll, lol. Seriously I have a serious issue with the business model. He cannot charge business any money for responding, what is the service in that? I mean surely his add revenue alone makes him a handy profit each month! As a consumer I would rather know for a fact that the business I am complaining about can respond, regardless of payment! How can I be sure that my complaint will be looked at, unless I do not care and simply want to damage their business... And how many complaints are made because the consumer messed up something but still want a freebie? How easy is it to view HP as a blackmailing strategy to get it your way regardless of your own guilt or mistake? Some companies will clear the issue simply to avoid bad publicity imo.

----------


## bullfrog

> Thank you Dave for the welcome. And Chatmaster for your input. 
> 
> I think that companies may choose to pay for the _priviledge_ to join Hellopeter, and that they will add value to their PR by having access to:
> 
> _ 1.  Registration and set up
> 
>    1. Email Notification : Immediate notification by email each time hellopeter.com receives a comment bearing your name in the Supplier panel.
> 
>    1. Customer's Contact Details: Each comment is submitted with a user name. Companies Who Respond receive name, email and telephone number of customer.
> ...


The privalage of joining the site and replying is essentially the same thing...which is an issue.

Emails notification: Charge an extra for that service.

Customer's Contact Details: Possibly charge for that too, but I personally think that this could be waived too.

SMS Notification: Definitely a service he could charge for. Also just a clarification. If you pay a yearly registration or what ever fee, the sms's ARE NOT FREE! You are paying for them!

Supplier's Response: This is a basic right that should be free. If it's not free it's blackmail by putting the company on a list that makes it seem like the company is crap and doesn't care. You have the right to defend yourself without lining the creators of some sites pockets!

Update Response: Same as above. 

Hyperlink your Company Website: Charge for that service and call it advertising.

Newsflashes: Same again. Have that as an addon that you get charged for seperately as advertising.

I can't really comment on the part that is on the site regarding the fees but I believe that wasn't always there.

If a company does something wrong, fine go ahead and ban them from the site. Don't go and automatically move them to the no reply list. Rather start a new list and call it something like the shame list. This might be a cliche by now, but 2 wrongs don't make a right. Having one company who cheated doesn't give them the right to lie and say the company doesn't respond or even worse add false complaints to the company. This sounds like something that the owner will do if he so pleases. Like I have said before, a site like this with such a great impact of companies big and small shouldn't be run by a child. It must be run by someone who is professional and doesn't let his emotions get in the way!

I think it would be great if he can make simple company responses free and some of the more advanced features a pay service. Will he do something like? No he won't cause it's all about his bottom line...how much money he can make from the site. He saw a market and made a product for it. He is in it to make money and in the process just happens to help disgruntled customers by blackmailing companies.

What he is doing is forcing companies to buy his product, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit: I don't visit the hellopeter site often but just thought i'd go take a quick look. One strange thing I noticed is how easy it is to make it onto the don't reply list. If you get a complaint, you get put on the list... Fine, fair enough. If you get a compliment you get put on the don't respond list...wait what?????!?!?!? So the don't respond list is a list of companies who don't say thank you for complimenting them. What a strange spin this puts on things  :Wink:

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## Chatmaster

> Supplier's Response: This is a basic right that should be free. If it's not free it's blackmail by putting the company on a list that makes it seem like the company is crap and doesn't care. You have the right to defend yourself without lining the creators of some sites pockets!


This is so true. Something Peter is good at is playing with words to create that impression. His entire site is a play of words imo.

----------


## Marq

> And after all, this being a forum, I actually went and swotted a bit on the Hellopeter website (so that I could add more valuable input to this discussion than "Oh Really" this and "Oh Really" that)


Genevieve.

If you back up a bit you will see that some of us have had first hand experience of hellopeter - have also used hellopeter,  (all without success in my case), have tried to communicate directly with peter cheales (with no response), and have done our own research (which is why you see the various negative comments) and we have posted our thoughts somewhere on the forum sa and this thread.

You made the general statement, that all small companies deserve what they get on hellopeter. I cannot argue with this statement as I have not got your insight on this matter. Is that researched? If I do not like something you do and I just post a complaint, its ok because you are a small company and you probably deserve it? 
Or that hellopeter is apparently an altruist who started his site for the 'consumers benefit' before making a decision to purchase. Can't discuss this either - its a fact according to you. Researched fact again? Can you point us to a source?
I also do not agree that that there is nothing wrong with hellopeter. But you are so convinced, who can argue with that!

I took these from hellopeter - regarding Apropos complaints - the first two are your responses to complaints.
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				Utterly disgusted:  Haha, yip, I got the blackmail (thought so). Will see what happens in my bank account.....
			
		





			
				Indifferent:  Spoke to the driver, said that he was in a hurry. Operations Manager called and said he will check the GPS, and get back to me. I am still awaiting his call back
			
		

_
This is a standard company response - again taken from your complaints. 
_



			
				Thank you for your E-Mail. We will investigate your complaint and advise you accordingly.
			
		

_
Chubbs (your last complaint) standard reply to the majority of their complaints:-
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				In keeping with Chubb's policy to deliver personal service, this complaint will be taken-up with the client personally. A satisfactory solution to the matter will be found.
			
		

_
I cannot see from these examples how this actually helped your situation or that you were satisfied or that anybody via the hellopeter site actually delivered a service. How did a bad driver report in Benoni affect my decision to purchase from Chubb in Durban? Was the company maybe not deserving of any complaint because they are not a small company? 

I don't believe all small companies that receive complaints are probably deserving of being found guilty of bad service and have to defend themselves on this system via one email within three hours or they lose all their rights to do so. 

I do believe the concept of hellopeter is good but the underlying system seems to be suspect.

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## Chatmaster

What ever happened to the HP story. It seems to have gone all quiet. Has there been any improvements since this big noise were raised?

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## garthu

Quite a contraversal topic! I had the misfortune of being "threatened" with Hello P post should i not make right. Obviously there are always 2 sides to a story and this where the site maybe needs to be looked at?? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Basically one of our service suppliers insisted that we had contracted them. What had actually happened is that we referred them to the client who contracted there service then refused to pay insisting we should pay! This is obviously complex, so leave it at that!

The threat then came if we did not settle the R2000 odd, they would list us on Hello Peter. Having investigated what they were (Hello peter), how it worked etc and being part of a large sa franchise on our side, it wasn't an option. 

The solution proved fairly simple in this case is that if they posted, we would summons for damages :Fence:  Got interesting! Needless to say they never posted the complaint - At the end of the day it is quite clear that the HP site was used quite simply "force" the issue.

Isn't another word for this blackmail?  :Smile:  Imagine we hadn't had the opporttunity to stop it before it appeared. I really don't approve of the site anymore (i used to), although there is no doubt need for something similar, just rethink the consequences.

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## IanF

I find Hello Peter a good site to deal with big companies like MTN. I just ported to them it "only" took 2 weeks but had to go on to HP 3 times as their shops and call centres are populated by idiots. I even offered to meet with their MD on HP but then they sorted the problems out.
I called them "idiots on HP but this came up as *****

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## eskimo

hellopeter is a load of crap, you can't actually see the real replies from the company, you can't actually discuss anything with the representatives.

i have made a complaints forum (http://www.freedumb.co.za) where you can post complaints and people can discuss the issues. I have got in contact with some of the companies to arrange a representative, so hopefully soon we can rip em apart! the site only launched today - so its still small, but join anyway!

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## Dave A

Good luck with the forum, Eskimo.

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## insulin

I donât think anyone is going to care much for my post. However I find this information distasteful at best. See the Consumer Council is useless most of the time and more people will Google the net to find help and or answers to their predicaments. 

Fact is our government is failing us because there is really no way to find help when you really need it. If I have a legal question I have no clue where to find the answers because every lawyer is out to get you and you are afraid to ask them anything because lawyers have the knowhow to destroy your life.  So you only go to a lawyer if you have the money... 

I donât know of any lawyers or Law firms that are operated by government so I end up going to a website that is ultimately blackmailing people. This is sick and shows that our government is inadequate in almost all fronts.  

This âHellopeterâ website saw an opportunity because they know that we the consumer have nothing to fight for us. My question is: Would this âHellopeterâ website be successful if our Consumer Council functioned properly? The answer is NO! So point blank: This âHellopeterâ website exists because our government is useless to start with.

 :Oops:

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## BryanCasson

Hi All, I may have a solution for you. I have created a website called http://pantsonfire.co.za that is similar to HP, however, it is free for all to respond no matter how big or small. The site is new but has over 100 members already and has a resolution rate of 72% so far. Big companies have come on board and the response has been fantastic. Go check it out and let me know what you think

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## Porcupine

Every Kingdom must fall!
Remeber the realestate company WENDY MECHANIC?
That has to happen some other time and if they keep it up by blackmailing some1 els it is bound to happen to them as well.

I really think that going onto the HP site and reporting a complaint might sometimes make things worse then actually helping,because it would make some companies employees feel even worser and then you even get the heat from your boss about bad service you gave to a consumer.

I really think ppl post theire problems first before taking it up with the company first and then it cost the company alot to clear it's name but if the complainee only took it to the company first and try to solve it themselfs before giving up hope and posting it on HP site.

i think the q that needs to be answered is: "If i were to blackmail you whould you be happy about it ,because i didn't give you a chance to set it right and now you have to pay me BECAUSE i think your a company that doesn't give proper service to consumers,if you don't pay or reply i will put you on the NAUGHTY LIST  so that every1 that uses your company might see your a BAD BOY." :Banghead: 

I think if your an extortionist this is the best way to MAKE MONEY without being arrested and keeping under the radar from the TAX MAN.

Why not go with your complaint to carte blanche? they don't extort buisinesses for money? and they try to find the truth behind your story. So they give companies a sporting chance to make things right with consumers and you won't be put on a 'NAUGHTY LIST' just because you got a consumer that wasn't happy with your service.

The only reason HP exicts is because south african siciety has fallen and allow our standards to go that low,and despite many complaints that were posted on HP or any other sutch website ,there is still so many complaints that go missing every day without it being resolved.

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## BryanCasson

Porcupine, maybe you did not read my post correctly... Pants of fire is completely FREE to all. No Extortion... just a way to voice your concerns. Plus, most people go to sites like Pants On Fire because the company they are complaining about did not listen in the first place. My bet is that almost everyone did indeed "go to the company first".. but the companies service was a nightmare

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## JoBi

The problem I have with HelloPeter is that there is no validation done. Any one can make a complaint without it first being validated with hard facts. Don't get me wrong I think there is a place for a site like HelloPeter and a lot of valid complaints have been addressed. However a lot of undue harm has been done as well, where a consumer just has to threaten the use of HelloPeter to get their way. Without regard to whether they are in the wrong or not. This is often aimed at small business who cannot afford the bad publicity let alone the fee to try and justify themselves. A case in point I know of is a small company that arranges events was forced to repay a non-refundable deposit after having spent a considerable amount of time planning the event; the customer was fully up-front aware that the deposit was non refundable, and even signed a document stating so. The bad publicity that would have been generated by a post on HelloPeter forced them to refund as it would have been cheaper than the fees required by HelloPeter and certainly cheaper then the bad publicity would have cost them. Remember this is a small business. That's just not right.
I feel the HelloPeter should be pressured to offer a fair consumer rights site where companies and consumers are given equal opportunity. Where the popularity of the site will ensure consumers rights are upheld and there is no chance that HelloPeter can be used to extort money from small business. 
Something needs to change; either their revenue model, or their complaints validation process.

The bottom line is that we need a fair and just consumer protection site. HelloPeter is currently not that site.

Regards,
John

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## Justloadit

Hi John,

Fisrtly welcome to the forum.

Whilst on the surface, your post sounds correct, the companies that are mentioned in the hellopeter.com, have a fair chance to state their case. I think the small company that you mentioned in the post was far to hasty to give into the customers demands. Had the customer placed the complaint in the hellopeter web page, the company concerned has full right to respond with the facts. It probably would have been good publicity for the company concerned, and would have pointed out that the customer concerned was the guilty party for not honoring the agreement, and that other companies to watch out for the customer concerned.

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## Dave A

> Had the customer placed the complaint in the hellopeter web page, the company concerned has full right to respond with the facts.


Provided they pay... otherwise they'd be listed as a company that does not respond. I'm still not convinced that can be classified as "full right to respond."

Here's a question to consider now that time has moved on - are name-them-and-shame-them sites as influential as they were three or more years ago?

I get a sense that the typical internet browser has become far more savvy when it comes bad to revues on the internet. I think most people can spot the difference between malicious slagging and reasonable cause for dissatisfaction nowadays.

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## AndyD

I'd like to know if a complaint was lodged on a website such as hellobleater and it was shown with evidence that it was untrue and malicious;

Would there be any liability on behalf of the website for a financial damages claim by the injured business?Would the website be held to the same standards as other media and be required to publish a retraction/correction/apology?

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## Dave A

I've been given to understand the key to determining the web site's liability in respect of content posted is the issue of pre-publication editorial control. This is where social media sites differ from news websites or traditional news media. Essentially on a social media website the publisher is the person posting the content, not the website hosting it. On a news website such as news24.com you will have a writer of the piece, normally a journalist, but the publisher is the entity that operates the web site. They decide what gets published and what does not.

Sometimes there is a line in the content too, particularly given that news sites often have an interactive facility nowadays for readers to post comments to their published stories. I believe in this instance the news site would be responsible for the story, but not for the comments section.

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## garthu

I have to agree with the whole extortion.blackmail issue here... but it can be dealt with also. Some time ago we referred a company to one of our clients for some work. The client eventually did not pay the provider, the provider came back to us and insisted we pay. They lodged complaints with the head office, ourselves to try and get payment but failed. They then insisted they would post on HP in order to get there way.

In an email to them i made it very clear that we would not respond but hold them liable for any payments to have it removed as well as damages in a civil suite. They never did the post. The amount in question was around R1500.00

This whole situation painted a very negative picture for with HP and that it is used for blackmail/extortion. Having to pay to defend this .. WHAT FOR!!! Even worse to go through a court case to resolve... yes there is space for it, i agree but the terms of payment i REALLY disagree with

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## Mariana

I agree that "HelloPeter" is a scam!

This my story:
The "Wiseman Concept" was approached to look for a property in the Nigel area for a client!
The "nature" of the "Wiseman Concept" is to save people money, because no Financial Adviser, CA or Banker can do that. This statement is proved!
We got a R 4 000 000 house for only R 1 100 000 ( R 2.9 million  saving ) We charged R 30 000 for 3 weeks of effort ( Normal agents would have charged 110K.

While the bank processed the deal, the buyer got approved, only to find out that the property was sold on a auction without the knowledge of the owner. The property was in arrears , but the owner did not know about the auction. Giving the bank the benefit of the doubt, we preceded by talking and signing with the bank. The bank demanded R 1 600 000. We made the bank aware of the fact that they are legally not suppose to make a profit of R 500 000 from a stressed auctioned property. They agreed and went down to R 1 100 000.

An estate agent demanded R 70 000 ( We have put them to bed as well ) They did not do anything!

A nameless, no address, no phone number lodged a complain against the R 30 000 we charged ( After saving them millions )
MY PROBLEM IS:
HELLO PETER charged me R 640.00 to respond to this blatant accusation which carry's no substance and are full of lies. They never even mentioned the saving!
David are 100% correct...they blackmail people to respond to these complaints.
"Hello Wiseman" will be released shortly with zero cost to complaints 
My first complain will be...IS HELLO PETER a money making scam........THE ANSWER IS ...YES!!!!

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## Phil Cooper

There is another side to hellopeter too. In my opinion, the PROMOTE the companies who have lots of complaints!

I follow the complaints against Direct insurers with great interest.

When I last did an exercise, some 88% of the complaints regarding non-payment of claims etc. in the site were against Direct underwriters, who hold some 22% of the market. In itself that says a lot!

HOWEVER - Direct Insurer A (will not use names as this was some time back) was listed by Peter as a GREAT company to do business with as they has a great "frown to smile" ratio.

SO - what he is saying is because they have the highest number of complaints, to which they ONLY responded because of HPDC, they are suddenly heroes.

The next interesting fact I found, when looking at a number of the complaints at random, is in a number of cases the insurer in question had actually paid claims which clearly were not covered. It was not covered on their policy wording, and there is not an insurance company in South Africa that would have paid under those circumstances.

However, Insurer A did pay. These were small claims, in the range of up to R 5,000. It became apparent to me that the Insurer in question is using the website purely as a form of advertising. people get a "warm fuzzy feeling" knowing that they actually do respond: the fact that they are one of the highest complaint ratios is immaterial.

Ah well!

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