# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  cANCer

## wynn

SEEN IN PARKING LOT AT MANGAUNG ANC CONFERENCE : 

106 BMW X5's,  28 RANGE ROVER SPORTS,   211 BMW 5 or 7 series sedans,  11 MASERATI's,  103 MERCEDES BENZ sedans,  6 HUMMERS,  9 FERRARI's.                                    

Apart from the fact that the tax payer is paying to get all these cars to the conference, paying for the luxury accommodation, decadently luxurious and excessive food and drinks (all free!!), wives, spouses, lovers, friends and family - all catered for - all at tax payers expense.

And we wonder why the govt says they don't have money for RDP housing, proper education system, proper healthcare facilities, proper police force and crime control - and all the other things they promised and haven't honoured !!!!

CAN  SOUTH AFRICA SURVIVE GIVEN THE FOLLOWING? 

The folks who are getting free stuff, don't like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff. 
The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting! 
Now...  The people who are forcing the people to pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist. 
So...  The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place. 
We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff. 
Now understand this: all great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded.  The reason?  The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.  Thomas Jefferson said it best:  Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. 
The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff.  We have one chance to change that at the next election will we?   

A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves! 



I'M 100% for  
Schooling: A decent pass rate not a manufactured one! 
Culture:  Western Standards not 40 wives cared for by the tax payers! 
Corruption Free; No one with a criminal record has a position in Government! 


"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."  -- Margaret Thatcher

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## Blurock

The problem with socialism and communism is that they actually say F@#k the people!!

They demand better wages and more grants so that the poor people can keep paying them and maintain their lavish lifestyles :Frown:

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## Didditmiself

So the money for Zoomas homestead did not come from tax payers but from the state. And the state gets it's money from? The whole thing stinks like a rotting corpse. And nothing will come of it just like the arms deal. Zooma proudly stated last year (before Mangaung) that he had given the go-ahead for the commission of enquiry into this matter and fkall has happened yet. And nothing further will. If it weren't for the DA's vigilance, I think we'd be even worse off than we are now with a lot of other things?

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## Dave A

> And the state gets it's money from?


I found myself asking a very similar question this afternoon!

I was giving one of our admin assistants a lift to the bus stop this afternoon when she asked me if I had change for R100.

I said "no, but what do you need? You can pay me back in the morning."

Apparently she needed R8 for the bus fare, but only had R3 in change and the bus driver wouldn't accept a R100 note.

I joked "they won't let you on because you're too rich to travel by bus"  :Stick Out Tongue: 
but apparently the bus drivers don't want big notes because the bribes would cost them too much.

So I'm going WTF - and the story comes out.

The drivers are pocketing most/all of the fare money.
You pay R8 cash (and you don't get a ticket) or R5 if you have a coupon with at least one clip on it.
The money goes into a container next to the driver.
When an inspector boards and checks a bus, the inspector goes through the bus checking everyone's tickets. 
Because the driver is pocketing the cash, most of the passengers don't have tickets or a clipped coupon to show.
So now the driver bribes the inspector who basically grabs a handful of the money out of the money container.
You can only grab and carry so much when it's all coins.

This is the municipal bus service. So who's paying for the running costs of the bus?

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## Blurock

> This is the municipal bus service. So who's paying for the running costs of the bus?


The scandals surrounding the Durban bus service has been reported in our newspapers over the past 5-6 years. It is sad that employees can be so brazenly dishonest, but they learn it from their bosses who are even more crooked. 

The awarding of tenders to pals, subsidies running into millions, backhanders etc. The corruption goes on and on... 

Its time that the Golden Goose starts biting the one that is stealing its eggs and plucking its feathers.

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## IanF

Is the Malema saga just the consequence of the fall out with ANC. Or a start of corruption crackdown.  :Confused: 
Either way politics is sure interesting in SA

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## Blurock

> Is the Malema saga just the consequence of the fall out with ANC. Or a start of corruption crackdown. 
> Either way politics is sure interesting in SA


Someone once said; "If something cannot go on forever, it must stop." Well, corruption can not go on forever...

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## adrianh

> Or a start of corruption crackdown.


Not a chance, they only go after those that annoy them!

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Chrisjan B (01-Feb-13)

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## Blurock

The problem in Zimbabwe was that the ruling party became more intolerant as soon as they realised that opposition parties became a threat. Land grabs and the rise of the dictator only started after the opposition became a threat. 

We are already seeing that the ANC will not tolerate any criticism. Any one reporting corruption or bad management automatically becomes an enemy. Even the children criticising corrupt leadership are now branded "unpatriotic".

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## Didditmiself

In light of what you said, can we EVER see this fkd up government conceding defeat if they should lose at the polls? There is no way in hell that they would bow out (gracefully) and let the 'new' party take over. Maybe that's what Zooma means when he says the ANC will rule until Js comes again. And as Adrian says, there is not a chance that it's the start of a crackdown on corruption. If anything it's not only because Malemas' fallen out of favour but because SARS have smelled the possiblity of new fodder for the feeding trough.

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## ians

We all know where we are heading, the question, how long are we going to enjoy the comforts.

The crime is not even out of control anymore, it has gone beyond that point, people are being attacked in their homes while eating dinner, no longer hijacked on the road at the robot, armed robberies, hijackings take place right inside the security of your home. No matter what security system you have you are no longer safe even inside your home, they will smash your door, security gate and the frame right out the wall with your alarm going off, and if you are "lucky" they might leave you alone and just walk around your house and eat and drink while they decide what they want to take. 

This what makes me laugh, people are more concerned about a few sports cars parked at a conference than danger of living in this country, who gives a F...K what cars they drive, you should be more concerned about who the crimminals are going to hit next, how safe is your wife and children this evening, are you going to be cable tied and beaten, or made to rape your daughter while your wife is forced to watch. The good olds days of you being held at gun point while they take turns raping your wife and daughters is old fashion, we have an even more sick breed of friendlys.

They can all drive ferraris for all i care, just make this country a safer place to live.

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## Didditmiself

I think the point that Wynn was making is that it is symptomatic of how the government treats ALL it's citizens; they only worry about what money they can take from us, what houses they live in, where they live, the choice of (private) schools their kids go to and yes, the type of cars they drive. They couldn't care a less whether the petrol price goes up, e tolls are implemented or not, the police are poorly paid (and therefore resort to corruption) and whether we are murdered in our homes or not. Pity if it seems the point of self gratification before the welfare of citizens by the observation of expensive cars in the parking lot was missed by you.  :Chair:

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## ians

My point is we are not going to be able to change the way they think or what they do anytime soon, but the crime could change your life sooner than you think.

I agree with Wynn and understand what you are saying i was just having a mid life crisis when i responded to this trhead  :Wink:

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## IanF

What is more worrying about our politics is the voting majority aren't worried about these excesses  seen in the ANC. We all need to try our bit about educating them. But even when they say they agree with you do they.
 :Confused:

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## Justloadit

> What is more worrying about our politics is the voting majority aren't worried about these excesses  seen in the ANC. We all need to try our bit about educating them. But even when they say they agree with you do they.


At least the seed will have been planted. Mention it enough times, and the thinking process begins to change, especially when they can not afford to buy that pap and wors, and have to go a little hungry. I think that we are already seeing the beginnings of this internal revolution, Marikana, Sasolburg, and many more will follow.

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## Didditmiself

No problem. With the way the ANC are fcking up this country, we're all heading for a mid-life crisis!!! :Taz:

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## ians

As i mentioned it could happen sooner than later, today caught in the act on cctv. The best part is 2 friendlys caught in the yard, the joke is they demand that we call the police becuase they were not doing anything wrong, merely browsing, they hadnt stolen anything, they had no ID, no cellphones, no form of identification and the best part, unarmed. I do believe when they saw all the contractors, black and white they realised they were a lot deeper in the crapper than they actually thought. Funny how they suddenly know the law when caught in the act, as far as they were concerned, they hadnt done anthying wrong because they only had to climb over the wall to enter the property, it isnt regarded and "breaking and entering" so they can climb over anyones fence and browse, so long as they dont have to break a lock to gain entrance. 

I was told today that we are not allowed to cable tie their hands together, true or false? They didnt try resist arrest almost like they know exactly what to do when caught and request we call the police. We decided to let them go instead.

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## Mike C

> We decided to let them go instead.


Would'nt they have been guilty of trespassing (having come over the wall)?  I can understand why you didn't call the police but that means another "statistic" isn't entered and it can be argued by the spin doctors that crime is on the wane.  What if the cops were looking for these guys?

It is a shame that the criminal always seems to have more rights than the law-abiding citizen.  :Mad:

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## Petrichor

> ....but that means another "statistic" isn't entered


One would hope they would go through the trouble of at least investigating. I've had some good and some bad experiences with police over the last few months. In one case batteries were stolen from one of our vehicles. Driver managed to see where the thieves went and used to police to recover the stolen batteries. They put the thieves in the van and drove off. 30 minutes later the thieves came strolling back to where my driver was still waiting to be picked up with the batteries. Turns out the cops decided to drop them off a kilometer down the road, because they felt we got out batteries back and did not feel like doing the paperwork...

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## Didditmiself

Pity you didn't take them somewhere and beat the faeces out of them.....

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## IanF

> Johannesburg - The ANC called on former Limpopo MEC Miriam Sekgabutla on Wednesday not to participate in party structures after she was arrested on fraud charges.
> 
> "It is the expectation of the ANC members that Comrade Miriam will be guided by her conscience to do the right thing," said African National Congress spokesperson Jackson Mthembu.


Rest of the news24 article
Did our president do this when he was been charged? I can't remember.
 :Confused:

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## Blurock

Miriam is not part of the extended family, so there is no position for her. Conscience? What conscience...?

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## Dave A

While this story deals in the main with something I'm becoming increasingly concerned about (increasingly intrusive government strangulation of the private sector), this observation is relevant to the discussion here.




> The culture of entitlement is also seen in the fact that whilst five million people in South Africa are paying taxes, 15 million receive the benefit of some social grant. You do the math. This situation is unsustainable and pretty soon we too will be facing our own fiscal cliff.
> 
> At the same time, and unlike the US, there is a twist in the South African scenario: it is these takers who are the ruling partys voting bloc. As such the ANC would not want to change the current system since any reduction of these benefits would result in the ANC losing at the polls. Whilst the ANC benefits from this system, South Africa does not and with each passing day economic catastrophe beckons.
> 
> from The Real Challenge facing South Africa

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## Justloadit

Whilst I agree there are 5million people registered and paying tax on their earnings, what we forget about is that the government is collecting taxes from unregistered tax payers through a number of mediums in which the registered tax payers also participate, it is VAT, company profit/dividend tax and punitive taxes on alcohol, tobacco, import taxes, fuel levy taxes etc.

The very ones receiving the grants are returning more than a half they receive back to the government coffers in these punitive taxes, but who cares, as long as the government is seen as helping these benefits, they will continue to be in power. Remember that the ones receiving the benefits ultimately spend it to live, so effectively the circle continues to turn.

What I do agree is that the government interference in private business will ultimately cause the destruction. If the government continued as it is now, and removed the red tape, and such things as BEE, LRA, unions, etc, they would be better off, as the economy would indeed upswing increasing the amount of finance available for enriching themselves further and even being able to throw bones with some meat on it to the electorate who would so eager to receive the bones that they would continue voting for he current government.

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Citizen X (29-Mar-13)

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## Blurock

> While this story deals in the main with something I'm becoming increasingly concerned about (increasingly intrusive government strangulation of the private sector), this observation is relevant to the discussion here.


It is indeed sad that a government that has so much to say about job creation, makes it so hard for an entrepreneur to start a business. The red tape is unbelievable and if you are not black enough, you will get no assistance. As an example; the NEF will not fund any business that is not 100% black. 

The fact that you will be creating direct and indirect employment plus transferring skills to educate (black) people means nothing. Even the export opportunities and the replacement of imports and the effect (however small) it may have on the South African economy means nothing. So how do you help people that do not want to be helped? :Confused:

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## Didditmiself

You can't help them Blurock, because like most things with this cANCerous government, their judgement is skewed. Take for example the E Toll saga. The head of Sanral says that it will alleviate the problem of congestion. How? Will people sell their cars and travel by taxi? By diverting vehicles to side roads and destroying the suburban roads is how. Banning (the sale of) alcohol on Sundays is another one of several examples of skewed logic that we've seen since they came into power. The consumers will just buy the stuff on Saturdays. Those are two topics that would make interesting discussions (if they haven't already been thrashed out on TFSA and I missed them.)

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## Blurock

The ANC has a direct interest in the implementation of E-toll. That is why only ANC councillors vote for it and all the other parties vote against it. It has nothing to do with traffic control or transport, if it was, our traffic officers would have been much more efficient and effective in law enforcement and traffic control. No, it is all about generating revenue for the ANC and the foreign company who sold the idea to them. :Frown:

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Didditmiself (31-Mar-13)

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## wynn

My new concern is the way the cANCer is using security and defence forces for their cronies  EG, Marikana to protect the interests of people like Cyril and now CAR where it appears they are using the army to protect cANCer crony businesses interests (read: pillage).

That would be equivalent to if COPE declared a coup and China sent troops in to prop up their illegal government all the while raping and pillaging our resources.

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## Blurock

> My new concern is the way the cANCer is using security and defence forces for their cronies  EG, Marikana to protect the interests of people like Cyril and now CAR where it appears they are using the army to protect cANCer crony businesses interests (read: pillage).
> 
> That would be equivalent to if COPE declared a coup and China sent troops in to prop up their illegal government all the while raping and pillaging our resources.


The real scandal is that a once great army, at a time rated as the best on the continent has deteriorated to such an extent. There is no leadership or discipline and everything is dilapidated and falling apart. Our 24 Gripens,acquired at great cost and scandal is being stored under covers in hangars, because there is no-one to maintain or fly them. Apparently we have only 6 trained fighter pilots. 
Our Navy is almost non existent and I doubt if we have an operational submarine. So much for the Billions spent on the (corrupt) arms deal, "because we need it to defend South Africa".

To add to our shame, our elite parabats get shot up by drunken 15 & 16 year olds. It is a disgrace that politicians can use poorly trained, ill equipped troops as gun fodder to further their own interests.

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Chrisjan B (03-Apr-13)

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## Didditmiself

All I can say is God help us if we should be invaded by another country. Our ragtag aids infested "army" will have neither the strength nor the experience to defend South Africa; I wonder if the other countries up north have taken note of how truly weak our 'Defence Force' actually seem to  be and will therefore take the opportunity to attack SA to see what they can get out of us by doing it. Or am I just being paranoid for nothing?

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## IanF

> All I can say is God help us if we should be invaded by another country. Our ragtag aids infested "army" will have neither the strength nor the experience to defend South Africa; I wonder if the other countries up north have taken note of how truly weak our 'Defence Force' actually seem to  be and will therefore take the opportunity to attack SA to see what they can get out of us by doing it. Or am I just being paranoid for nothing?


How did you arrive at this conclusion? Do you have inside information?

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## Blurock

> All I can say is God help us if we should be invaded by another country. Our ragtag aids infested "army" will have neither the strength nor the experience to defend South Africa; I wonder if the other countries up north have taken note of how truly weak our 'Defence Force' actually seem to  be and will therefore take the opportunity to attack SA to see what they can get out of us by doing it. Or am I just being paranoid for nothing?


A while back, it took our army two weeks to overpower a group of rebels in the Lesotho army. What are the odds today?

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## IanF

> Only 200 of the soldiers had been sent at the time of the attack and it was this group which, at the weekend, fought armed forces numbering over 1 000.


From this article in M&G
200 vs 1000 and they are reported to have fought them off! The army doesn't look that bad, or what am I missing?

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## Blurock

> From this article in M&G
> 200 vs 1000 and they are reported to have fought them off! The army doesn't look that bad, or what am I missing?


Will we ever know the truth? I am just glad that they are bringing the guys back.

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## Didditmiself

Ian, no I don't have inside information. The information is so closely guarded by Zooma and his cronies I don't think any of us civvies have any idea of what is really going on. I have concluded that we have an ill prepared army from the newspaper reports and various media. I have also read how rife aids is in the armed forces. So I'm not jumping to my own conclusions. I am not in a position to verify the accuracy or correctness of the newspaper editorials. I (like most people) have to rely to a greater or lesser degree on what we read in the newspaper, or hear on the radio or see on the TV. That is why I ended my post with a rhetorical question. So, my friend, if you have a different conclusion, let us know.  :Huh:

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## Citizen X

> From this article in M&G
> 200 vs 1000 and they are reported to have fought them off! The army doesn't look that bad, or what am I missing?


They fought very bravely! Apparently, those that were killed were the first line of defence outside the base. We now know that the rebels took them by surprise. The rebels didn't want to attack them, but , the base was in between the rebels and their march to the palace. According to the minister it was the rebels who handed the bodies back to the base. I found her to be very credible. It still doesn't answer the question why our soldiers were still there after the fact of Bozize been toppled. Her response is that, they already made the decision to withdraw in December and were in the process of withdrawal...keen to see how this pans out..

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## IanF

diditmyself I probably read the same news as you. The one thing that I bear in mind is that newspapers look for angles to "sell" the news to you. IE they tell you what you want to hear. I always look for the hidden facts to get a broader view. 
I remember this from attending financial results  presentations and the sensational getting the publicity.

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Dave A (06-Apr-13)

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## Blurock

> From this article in M&G
> 200 vs 1000 and they are reported to have fought them off! The army doesn't look that bad, or what am I missing?


It may be worse. An army that has no discipline or respect for a rank is not an army. When soldiers lie around idly in their base while toilets are blocked, the place is in disrepair and filthy and they fail to salute an officer (colonel in this case) it is already late in the day. Visit any army base and see for yourself.

In this case I blame the fat cat generals who know nothing about discipline themselves and even less about leading men into battle. :Frown:

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## pmbguy

Even if Mugabe wanted to concede a total defeat out his own free will, he cant. All those many friends and many friends, that he has surrounded himself with, have it in their own best interest to keep him and zanu pf in power. They would all lose allot of assets if they fail. They got the old man by the balls

But look, the guy is 89y old and will meet his maker soon. I dont know how zanu pf will wield what power they have after the death of M. The exact, current, real relationship between Mugabe and Zuma/ANC is unclear. China will be giving the ANC some advice and this could dictate how it plays out.

(If I was the ANC I would sit back, play both hands. If zanu pf is deposed, SA will take over many lucrative deals. 
If zanu pf remain, the ANC still score by getting some deals anyway, their payment for not acting against them (by them I mean zanu pf and/or possibly china.) 

The ANC is not stupid though, but they are weakening.  A good enough government will come at some point in SA

Will see how it plays

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## Dave S

> All I can say is God help us if we should be invaded by another country. Our ragtag aids infested "army" will have neither the strength nor the experience to defend South Africa; I wonder if the other countries up north have taken note of how truly weak our 'Defence Force' actually seem to  be and will therefore take the opportunity to attack SA to see what they can get out of us by doing it. Or am I just being paranoid for nothing?


Personally I don't see another country wanting to invade us, yes we have natural resources that other countries would want, but I think any country looking at SA would see a circus about to topple the tent, all they would have to do is wait for it and then walk in without even presenting arms, keep you eyes on the China/ANC relations. It wouldn't surprise me if all south africans are soon to become buddhists.

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## IanF

> It may be worse. An army that has no discipline or respect for a rank is not an army. When soldiers lie around idly in their base while toilets are blocked, the place is in disrepair and filthy and they fail to salute an officer (colonel in this case) it is already late in the day. Visit any army base and see for yourself.
> 
> In this case I blame the fat cat generals who know nothing about discipline themselves and even less about leading men into battle.


Which base was this?

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## Blurock

> Which base was this?


This happened when the ex troopers were supposed to register for their "pensions".

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## IanF

Is it still like that? 
Surely this would change.

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## Blurock

> Is it still like that? 
> Surely this would change.


This happened last year and was confirmed by the colonel that troops do not salute officers. I don't know if it is only this particular base. If you see troops walking in the street with a coke in the one hand and a cigarette in the other, with total disregard for their uniform, it is believeable. :Frown:

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## Didditmiself

> This happened last year and was confirmed by the colonel that troops do not salute officers. I don't know if it is only this particular base. If you see troops walking in the street with a coke in the one hand and a cigarette in the other, with total disregard for their uniform, it is believeable.


Like I said before: We have a ragtag army...... :Whistling:

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