# Regulatory Compliance Category > National Credit Act Forum >  Unfair / Incorrect Credit Bureau Listings

## Svgtrust

Recently I have met several people that have been listed unfairly or incorrectly with Credit Bureaus. In one scenario the company could not even provide a contract of agreement, in another situation the person an employee of a company was listed due to debt owed by the company even more bizarre neither of these two people were informed that they were going to be listed.

My aim by starting this thread is to gain a lil insight into the following three questions:

Firstly, are there any opther people out there experiencing a similiar situation, I would be really interested to hear about it?

Secondly, is there a process / procedure that needs to be followed by a company wanting to list a person and is this actively enforced?

Thirdly, where a person is incorrectly / unfairly listed do they have any recourse, financial or otherwise? The reason behind this question is that in both scenarios above the individuals have had to run around, take time of work and make lengthy phone calls in feeble attempt to sort the matter out... to date still unable to obtain credit I find this so weird.

Look forward to enlightening comments. :Batman:

----------


## Dave A

My experience is that people/organisations get listed because there's an unpaid bill or more somewhere *and* the debtor has been less than forthright in dealing with the issue. 



> ... the person an employee of a company was listed due to debt owed by the company ...


What was the position held by the "employee"?
How was the employee connected to the debt by the creditor? Surety? Gave the order without proper authority?

To be honest, we've done something similar in a few scenarios. One situation is where the company claims the "employee" wasn't authorised to contract on their behalf in the matter. Another was where we we were only instructed to invoice a company after provision of the services - our argument being the original contract was between ourselves and the individual.



> where a person is incorrectly / unfairly listed do they have any recourse, financial or otherwise?


You may object to the listing with the credit listing service concerned. 

You could also sue for damages. Best be sure of your case and have deep pockets, though. In litigation success is rarely a surefire thing.

There's a few duckers and divers I'd _love_ to try to sue me for damages on something like this - at least I'd have somewhere to serve my own summons/countersuit.

----------


## Svgtrust

Thanks for the reply Dave, I have requested info from the company (iburst) that initiated the listing, however a month later have still not received anything.

Surely companies cannot list all and sundry unless they have the correct facts at hand.

This individual was handling Technical admin and fulfilled a bookkeeper role for the company, even after explaining the situation to them, they continued to list her.

Regards
Sergio

----------


## garthu

> I have requested info from the company (iburst)


Had a similar experience with them as well. They threatened me with black listing and we had a serious difference of opinion regards the bill as i had cancelled the service and they continued to bill. Wanted to sell me a new modem when i changed to Vista as the original didn't have a patch, i refused to do so.

Also Telkom have tried ... they sold there debtors on and this causes a whole world of trouble. I paid the outstanding bill with the first collector. About a year later ANOTHER collector tried to collect same account with higher interest. About 6 months ago it started again with yet a different collector.

The way i resolved them both is EVERYTHING in writing, email, fax etc. No phone conversations ASIDE from the initial call. Requested statements, payments that were made etc also advised them Black listing without these and we would have them in court etc. Once you listed then to late i guess but try to pick it up at the start.

----------


## Dave A

> Thanks for the reply Dave, I have requested info from the company (iburst) that initiated the listing,


I seem to recall the signatory is a co-debtor or surety in the iBurst contract. Did the person listed sign the contract?

----------


## StevenS

DAMAGES FOR INCORRECT CREDIT DEFAULT
Was about to purchase a new home (July 2010) and decided to check my credit record before I apply for the bond. This is what I found!!
Listed by VODACOM LEGAL DEPARTMENT for 2004 outstanding account. The listed default date was June 2010. After numerous calls Vodacom admitted that it had been paid up and indicated that it was a fault on their side as the âfile had not been closedâ
Is this legal? Firstly not being informed that they are about the list you or inform you that the amount is outstanding (All info at credit bureau up to date); secondly list you for a 6 year old account that has already been settled. Surely the must be a procedure before you can be listed by a credit bureau for default payment?
What would have been the case should my bond not be granted due to this default. Can I claim damages? :Confused:

----------


## Dave A

> Surely the must be a procedure before you can be listed by a credit bureau for default payment?


I expect the defence would be based on the provisions in the NCA that require you to be able to get a free credit report on yourself once a year and that listings can be disputed and corrected. One of the problems if prior notice was mandatory would be delivery issues.

At first blush this might seem unreasonable, but you need to bear in mind one of the purposes of the act is to try to inhibit people who can't manage credit and really shouldn't be getting any more - as much to protect them from themselves as from potential new creditors. And some credit addicts can be damn difficult to serve notices on.

My experience is professional financial institutions do understand that mistakes happen and act accordingly. In fact it's the "amateurs" that are the problem when it comes to this sort of thing.

My personal profile has me listed as a member of a cc with two judgements against it dating back to 1998. I've never taken the trouble to clear it because it's irrelevant and hasn't proved a handicap for years now. But the other day I did have trouble opening an account at a supplier and had to walk him through what he was seeing.

Click on the cc.
Check the dates of the judgements.
Click on each judgement to see what the story was.
1st one - provisional liquidation of the cc.
2nd one - final liquidation of the cc.
Applicant in both judgements - me!

My only crime was winding up the cc properly when it ceased trading.

----------


## bradlesliect

Hi,

I've just recently discovered that I have been listed by CellC.

I called them and was transferred to disgusting rude and arrogant consultants on their Legal Dept. I asked questions around the listing and why it is that I was not informed only to be told that they "left messages with my colleagues" in October 2009 for me to call them. When I said I did not get these messages they said "well, its not our problem" They used a tracing company to track me down but yet they had my work number and were sending me bills each month? Go figure?

I wanted to know what the process and procedure was before a listing happens and I was told "you don't need to know that! Pay your account or the listing remains!"

They had no record of EVER making contact with me - email, post, fax, phone - and all that was on record was that one phone message left in Oct 09. WOW!

I tried to get hold of the manager of the legal dept and I was told I am not allowed to speak to that person directly and that the account had to be paid and that was final! I had to use some other tactics to get this person's details.... :Big Grin: 

I have now sent an email to who I was told is the manager and have received a read receipt. However, this means nothing and I am not going to hold my breath as I see on HelloPeter.com that these guys don't really give a flying hoot about complaints! In my email, I really lambasted CellC, their bullying tactics, business etiquette and their attitude towards customers. I asked whether there was any consultation, summons, final demand letters before the listing and asked that the evidence be provided. I, the "thief", as the guy called me, was not given an oppotunity to remedy this by either making a payment arrangement or signing an acknowledgement of debt. The consultant called me "irresponsible" as I took a contract but never used it. I told him that use of the contract was not his concern and the CellC was happily debiting my account each month for subs and had access to double debit should there be an arrears. He agreed but still said I was irresponsible....oh and this was the Legal Dept CallCentre Manager! WOW! 

These guys are supposed to be highly trained to deal with clients but instead of the client becoming irate, they do and not only that, they feel that they have owned that right to humiliate, embarrass and scream at the client.

Well...they have a fight on their hands! I was prepared to pay the money but now....this becomes personal! I am not asking for an exception to rules but rather want information around this listing. They have abused my rights as a consumer as per the new Consumer Protection Act and now they will feel the pain...I'm going to hit them where it hurts most...their pockets....no courts...no lawyers...but....freedom of the press, using media, internet. This will give me more satisfaction. They using Trevor Noah as their ambassador aka CEO for their new ad campaign and I know someone who knows him very well.

Anyways....who's in? Its time consumers stand together and fight these big concerns. Yes, you have debt, Yes, you owe them money but NO, they do not reserve the right to list on credit bureau without actually letting you know about? .....or am I wrong?

Comments?

----------


## orpaspar

A friend of mine was blacklisted by SARS for failing to pay R240 000,00 in income tax. Turns out he hadn't even earned R240 000,00 in the previous two years and some incompetent idiot who was most probably dozing off while working made a "clerical error" by adding a few zeroes. He wasn't advised of the blacklisting and found out when trying to open a close corporation. After spending thousands on getting the incorrect tax debt sorted out with SARS through an accountant, he was not offered even an apology, let alone any assistance with the blacklisting. Unable to afford lawyers fees to rectify the situation, he just had to deal with it. I said he should sue SARS but on second thought, who knows what the repercussions would be. 

It is really sickening that companies and government departments can blacklist people almost at a whim and the victim has absolutely no redress and as is obvious from above, are not even advised of the action against them. Yes, if you have debts, you have to pay them but sometimes you find yourself in one of those "That was stupid of me .." situations, especially with regard to debit orders. How many people end up paying debit orders for services they do not want (and got duped into signing up for) just because of the threat of blacklisting? I have a gym contract with a despicable gym chain that I am suffering through. 

The law makes provisions for rectifying all these types of situations, but the law is out of touch with reality in so many ways.

There are many examples of unscrupulous companies in SA that take advantage of the power of threatening blacklisting - those for whom good service is a foreign concept. I really hope that something is done about the power of these credit bureaus at least to offer those listed a reasonable chance to prove their innocence without having to resort to legal action - and perhaps offer some fine or punishment for the incorrect blacklisting of innocent people. Here's hoping ...

----------

Dave A (13-Aug-10)

----------


## BusFact

> Click on the cc.
> Check the dates of the judgements.
> Click on each judgement to see what the story was.
> 1st one - provisional liquidation of the cc.
> 2nd one - final liquidation of the cc.
> Applicant in both judgements - me!
> 
> My only crime was winding up the cc properly when it ceased trading.


Was this a special case or does the winding up properly of a cc result in a judgement / black mark against your name?

----------


## wynn

> Well...they have a fight on their hands! I was prepared to pay the money but now....this becomes personal! I am not asking for an exception to rules but rather want information around this listing. They have abused my rights as a consumer 
> Comments?


use the PAIA (public access to information act) google the site.
Download the form, fill it in, pay your R35 and kick their arse with the government's foot.!!!

 :Chair:

----------


## Dave A

In hindsight it was probably a mistake to formally liquidate it. 

It all started with a big deal that went sour. The problem was I had some current creditors hounding me and the only way to settle them was realising a fixed asset, which was taking time. When I applied for liquidation of the cc they had to back off and wait for the process to unfold.

Everyone got their money, just a bit late.

If I'd had better negotiating skills at the time it probably wouldn't have come to that - but you live and learn.

----------


## bradlesliect

> use the PAIA (public access to information act) google the site.
> Download the form, fill it in, pay your R35 and kick their arse with the government's foot.!!!


After a threat of legal action, I received a call from CellC yesterday and no surprise ...their position has NOT changed. Its "EITHER PAY UP or REMAIN LISTED".

but....

They cannot produce the following:
1) Reminder letters
2) FINAL demand letters
3) Proof of conversations between their accts and/or legal dept and myself where contact was made and I was informed about what was going to transpire.
4) Copies of summons issued and/or copies of the receipts that it was signed for.

They continued debiting my bank account right up to October last year when they "terminated" the contract and instituted the listing on ITC. CellC maintains that I acted "irresponsibly" by taking a contract that I never used BUT still acknowledge the fact that they were receiving payment for it in return ...umm... am I missing something here? They claim the acc was 2mths in arrears for period Dec09 and Jan10 but have not record that they tried to debit the arrears amount from my bank acc?

These guys are REALLY trying their luck. I have threatened to expose them like Carte Blanche did with Vodacom and the Gogga thing? I have put a suggestion on the table to them and it is
- I pay the arrears(2mnths)
- Continue paying for the remainder of the contract, monthly but it remains cancelled until its all paid.

In return, they remove me from ITC as soon as the arrears is paid and they reserve the right to list should I default on any payments? This sounds fair doesn't it? They want their money, I want listing removed?

Lets see if they'll bite?

I am longer prepared to pay the full amount as its

Remaind. of Contract + admin + tracing fee + Interest = Approx R4500.00

Wonder what they would do if the shoe was on the other foot?

----------


## JazzyB

Hi,

I don't even know where to start...

I bought a flat in 2004 (PTA) and later relocated to Welkom, FS. I had a tenant move in the flat. Cannot exactly recall the date I was contacted by the tenant, who informed me at the time that she received a 30 day notice to vacate the premises as it had been auctioned. This was the first time I heard about this even being the owner of the property. I could have been behind with two months payments or less but definitely nothing more. Why was I not informed about the ABSA's intentions? Instead of loosing the property I would've made a plan to bring the account up to date. I was later contacted by the bank to inform me that R36000 was still due and was eventually listed for this. Ever since the listing, Iâve been contacted and dealth with several different attornies. Is this even right? Shouldn 't the bank only have one dedicated attorney handling my case?

Do I have a case, 'cos honestly speaking, I'm convinced that the correct procedures was not followed, starting with the auction!!!!!!

Yes, itâs time the consumer gets justice! What should I do?

----------


## Dave A

Did you notify the bank of changes in address for notifications along the way?

----------


## Chatmaster

> Hi,
> 
> I could have been behind with two months payments or less but definitely nothing more. Why was I not informed about the ABSA's intentions?


Banks do not inform you of their intentions, the moment you default they take a judgement and normally in the high court. When we buy properties we normally know about judgments before the owners do, simply because banks just don't give a fly about the consumers. That is the fact end of story. The sad reality is that they obtain a judgement against your name usually within the first or second month you default on your payment.

At my one house in Kdp, we stay on a corner stand. We didn't go to the swimming pool area for the entire winter, but one day I decided to go clean up at the bottom gate next to the swimming pool. There, nicely pushed into the walls waterhole I found a letter delivered by the sheriff, the irony was that the letter was addressed to someone else lower down the street with absolutely no resemblance in street name or number. Their house were auctioned off without their knowledge just a few weeks ago and they found themselves in the exact same situation.

The law simply doesn't make any sense to me and was without a doubt not thought through properly as it is simple to obtain a judgement without even having proper proof that a person owes the money.

----------


## Dave A

> There, nicely pushed into the walls waterhole I found a letter delivered by the sheriff, the irony was that the letter was addressed to someone else lower down the street with absolutely no resemblance in street name or number. Their house were auctioned off without their knowledge just a few weeks ago and they found themselves in the exact same situation.


 :EEK!:  Now *that* sounds like grounds for a claim - incorrect service of notice.

----------


## bradlesliect

and the fight with CellC continues....

my complaint / case has been registered with TransUnion and they will now investigate the matter.

Just to summarise:

- CellC imposed a list of "bad payer, debt written off" against my Credit Profile.
- They have no records of EVER being in contact with me to advise this would happen
- The account was supposedly 2mths in arrears but yet they continued to debit my bank acc for several months after the arrears right up to when the listing happened.
- There were no reminders, final demands and/or summons for payment.
- Contract was cancelled with prior notificaiton


CellC did not follow the process and are now unable to cover their tracks.

...I keep my fingers crossed and hope that TU can do something about it. I have offered to pay 35% of the arrears now and the rest as subscriptions each month. They(CellC) were not interested. I have paid the 35% and will pay monthly subs.

----------

