# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  The Truth about South Africa

## Fanie

It seems MOST people in South Africa have no clue what the truth about South Africa is.  Even the last few weeks on Tv they keep showing 'how bad' it was in South Africa.

I've put up a few pages here
http://www.faze.co.za/South%20Africa...dex%20Page.htm

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desA (18-Dec-11)

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## desA

Interesting thoughts, Fanie.

Surely this is time for RE (Re-Empowerment) Networks to take root. There will be lot of useful folks among the 650-800k you mentioned, who could be gainfully employed, were they given the chance. Continued enforcement of BEE is a criminal action, in my view. BEE has led to corruption on a grand scale. This group find themselves to be aliens in their birth-place.

In my view, this huge group of people, many of whom were trained in the former SADF, could become a powder-keg fueling possible future civil unrest - perhaps moving towards a civil war of an already fractionated society. The powers-that-be ignore this situation at their peril.

To this 'poor white' situation must surely be added the fact that some 40% of school-leavers will not get employment. What is to come of all these folks? I see the lines daily, of young folks desperate for employment. The reasons for this should be squarely laid at  the door of the regime post 1994. I see people working for a daily wage, on a 'casual basis' with no hope of a more permanent employment position on their horizon. How do these people start, raise & feed families? 

Perhaps the seeds of the African Spring are close at hand?

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## tec0

Look things need to change that I agree with 100% being alienated is not fun and it must be said our opportunities are being regulated by the use of laws that seems to be against the very constitution we now have.

Yes according to both our international human rights and our very own constitution there are serious troubles brewing. Sadly there are serious extremist on both ends playing a deadly game of tug-of-war.

But I have always hoped that we could rise above this somehow and defuse this situation and allow each of us to live a healthy meaningful life. Why not have a healthy economy? 

That said, if one look at crime, poor living conditions and the worst hospitals known in this countrys history. People of all sides are looking for an alternative hoping that a solution can be presented to benefit all in question. 

Once we can achieve this state of equilibrium then not only can we continue to exist we can also continue to co-exist without the need for more violence. 

Regardless of who we are we as citizens need a new mindset. All of us need to consider that the solutions both in law and in mindset is not working. So maybe it is time to advocate things that just might work.

I am tired to live in fear; I believe that can be said for all of us. I just hope enough minds will change so that our lives can improve otherwise we may not have a future.

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## Fanie

> Yes according to both our international human rights and our very own constitution there are serious troubles brewing. Sadly there are serious extremist on both ends playing a deadly game of tug-of-war.


Perhaps this has something to do with our country being taken illegally ?  and on the other side those that does not want to give it back !

Think for a minute - if you go to another country, do you have voting rights ?  How did things in SA go this wrong ?  NP gave it away illegally because the were threatened with extinction.


Now that we are where we are - why doesn't the anc level things out as you say ?  They want a dictatorship introduced so that they can have full control over every one in this country - same as in Zim.  What stands in their way ?  2 400 000 Whites (6%) out of a population of 50 000 000 responsible for 40% of the finance in SA - it's called political opposition.

Remove the whites and they can do what they want.




> I am tired to live in fear; I believe that can be said for all of us. I just hope enough minds will change so that our lives can improve otherwise we may not have a future.


Fear of what ?  Our future here ended 18 years ago.




> Regardless of who we are we as citizens need a new mindset. All of us need to consider that the solutions both in law and in mindset is not working. So maybe it is time to advocate things that just might work.


There may be workable solutions - like prior to 1994 where every one had their OWN country.  Africa never had a reputation to build anything up - it's easier to take.

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## Blurock

Give South Africa back to the people! Division is sown by the politicians who, in stead of serving their country and their people, would rather steal from it. The systematic plunder of our country is evidence of this. :Frown: 

That is why I believe that you should never vote any one or any party into power. Vote them out of power; always vote for the opposition, whomever that may be. That way we can keep a balance of power.

In my experience, there is a lot of goodwill amongst the people of South Africa. Let us not get disheartened by the way the fat cat politicians are raping our country. Let's make our voices heard and our votes counted. Let the truth be heard. :Yes:

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## Fanie

Agree !

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## tec0

> Fear of what ?  Our future here ended 18 years ago.


I am going to leave it at that. I agree that things are not right. But I am not going to speak for nor against you. You have your mindset I have my own.  

Everything you know is based on hindsight for the most part it was instigated from all extremist on both sides of the coin that the other-side is evil. 

Fact is not they nor you knew how things will turn out. We still dont... But the worst thing one can do is to force position with a if you are not with us you are against us mentality. I dont play well with others.

That said dont mistake my words for being a coward. I do fear for our children most people do.

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## adrianh

The country is like a class of 4 year olds mixed with a couple of 16 year olds. If the 4 year olds rule, they steal all the sweets for themselves and everybody knows it. If the 16 year olds rule, they steal all the sweets for themselves and convince the 4 year olds that it is for their benefit. No matter who is in charge, there will always somebody on the losing side, its a simple fact of life, and if there are 400 x 4 year old and 10 x 16 year olds in a "democratic" class then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see who is going to be on the losing side....deal with it!

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## Blurock

> Our future here ended 18 years ago.


Is that not a bit negative and a defeatist attitude? I have been fortunate to travel and comparing my life in South Africa to most of the countries I have visited, I would not choose to live any where else in the world.

We may not be happy with everything that is happening around us, but it is still better than most other countries in the world. Try to stay positive and be a positive influence to the people you meet. 

Daniel Kahneman (psychologist and Nobel -winning economist) says that we should spend more time with the people we like and love. This may not guarantee our satisfaction with life, but it will make us happy. :Wink:

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## desA

Could the current geography of SA be sub-divided into two, or three new countries? Partitions,as it were.

Practically, when a civil war is finally over in SA, geographical lines will be drawn, with people deciding where best suits them. Would it not be preferable to decide/elect, as adults, before the necessity for a civil war, as to where people would choose to live out their lives?

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## adrianh

> I would not choose to live any where else in the world.


Speak for yourself. If I had the cash and/or the oppertunity I would be gone in a flash. And yes, I have also travelled quite a bit, my brother lives in Windhoek, sister in Sydney, borther in law in London and most of our friends are scattered over the rest of the world.




> Daniel Kahneman (psychologist and Nobel -winning economist) says that we should spend more time with the people we like and love. This may not guarantee our satisfaction with life, but it will make us happy.


I have a completely different take on this - my happiness comes from within, so being with people that I like / love is just a bonus. Staying in this; or leaving this country is not about happiness, it is about many, many more issues. I can be happy anywhere, (I make do), but where will we be safe, where will my kids grow up free from reverse apartheid, where will they get a good education, where will they not get mugged and raped in the street....etc. Being happy is the least of my concerns...

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## Fanie

> Is that not a bit negative and a defeatist attitude?


I have lived in the old SA and I have lived in the 'new' one.  I cannot tell you how big a difference there is, but I can make a comparison for you.  The old SA was like driving in a car, with improvements being done to it as time progressed.  The NSA is like driving in a car which deteriorate over time, to the point where it can now be compared to a wheelbarrow and someone lazy and undependable has to push you around.

We do not know what tomorrow will hold for us, but if you look at the indicators and trends then  it is inevitable where we are going to end up.

African countries governments doesn't understand that if everyone prospers then they themselves prosper more because they govern a wealthy country.  African countries governments only know how to take everything for themselves (the little there is) and the people are dirt poor.  Check, all African countries are like that, and the anc is no different.  They deliberately allow crime and corruption to take place, deterioration of services etc because it dumps the whole country into poverty.  This way it is easier to control the poor.  Look what mugabe did in Zim, the same is happening here except there are more and stronger infrastructure that has to be broken down hence it takes longer.

The anc doesn't care a bit about the people in SA, they can live very comfortable from the 5Bn they get from the mines per year, they do not need us or our taxes.  Get rid of the poor and the whites and their dream come true.  16 000 murders alone per year for the last 17 years, not counting any other crimes - does this sound like a futuristic country to you ?

Wait till everything fall over and nothing is left to maintain order, when it becomes a free for all.... and we're close !  For one just sit and think carefully what will happen if the last eskom power generator also gets destroyed like the previous one due to illiteracy what effect it will have if we are without power for an extended period.

A future here ?  No...unless something dramatically changes direction SA is going aground.  We are already again being considered a 3rd world country and not a 1st world country like we were.

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## Fanie

> The country is like a class of 4 year olds mixed with a couple of 16 year olds.


There is a way to reorganize a government so they cannot get the power to manipulate and abuse their power to rule over people.

A government is appointed civel servants that has to perform certain functions on behalf of the people in a country. They work for the people, they do not rule over the people like is done currently.  The people is the country, that is why the constitution is the highest law in the country and the constitutional court is the highest court in the country.  The constitution exist for one to protect the people from the government, and it is not the playground for the high placed criminals like selebi who wants to run there when he gets jailed.

Same goes for the police, they are a sub function of society that are supposed to serve the public and protect the public's RIGHTS (not their lives).

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## adrianh

> We are already again being considered a 3rd world country and not a 1st world country like we were.


1. I think that you are living in a dream world if you think we were ever a 1st world country.
2. I think that you are dreaming if you think that the black majority were better off or happier than they are now.

This country has always been run by a bunch of stupid fools looking out for the good of their own kind. Don't kid yourself, the white apartheid government were no angels. Those stats on that website are jus as lob-sided as the rubbish that the ANC spout. 

Get over the idea of the old NP government, it is gone, and BTW: if I was black I would also have been throwing rocks from my Blacks-Only grimy park bench. The problems in this country are not black vs white - it is rich vs poor.

Ok, we all know that bitching and moaning doesn't help, what are you planning to do about the situation?

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Dave A (19-Dec-11)

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## tec0

> black vs white - it is rich vs poor.


See in my book these people come to forums set them on fire and see who they can use and who they can dump. It is the same thing on almost every social network. I am sorry but the truth is there is nothing any one person can do. 

There is no point in explaining anything anymore because they are not listening. There opinion and point of view is all that matters.

Fanie > I don’t think that you are a bad person. You probably have good reasons behind all these post. But just think a little about everything. You will find that you are just playing someone else ‘s hand.

That said "it is rich vs poor." Think about that as well because it is the truth.

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## Fanie

Well it's not my job to tutor you on things you don't know because you're either too lazy or ignorant to reseach yourself.
For a start you can read my truth about South Africa and stop believing the lies the anc put on Tv avery day.




> 1. I think that you are living in a dream world if you think we were ever a 1st world country.


With a Rand stronger than the Pound prior to 1994, SA was debt free and we were exporting food, not importing like now.  SA most certainly was a first world country !  It was safe for ALL it's citizens and mostly EVERYTHING you see around you were here before the anc took power - only it was maintained back then.  




> 2. I think that you are dreaming if you think that the black majority were better off or happier than they are now.


Blacks are NEVER satisfied or happy with anything.  They were struggeling since I can remember and they are still struggeling today, 18 years (not months) after they came into power.  Only now, still after 18 years the whites are still blamed for jeir own failures.  Surely, if it was the whites fault, then why are the other black countries not developed ?  Why are they, despite all the technologies available still third world where most of them don't even have proper roads ?
THINK for a change.  




> This country has always been run by a bunch of stupid fools looking out for the good of their own kind.


SA was not the black people's country, just as you don't have voting rights in the US, so did they as foreigners not have voting rights in SA.  Other countries of course look out for their own kind, something this government most certainly does not do.  Read the history.  There's a good reason you are not tought history prior to the anc's origin and the anc most certainly don't want you to know !




> Don't kid yourself, the white apartheid government were no angels.


You have to remember that the rubbish that gave the country away were not always the government.  SA was not created in 1994 or there abouts - the apartheid government alone existed for 45 years prior to that.




> Those stats on that website are jus as lob-sided as the rubbish that the ANC spout.


Really ?  Then please post the real history of what was going on in SA prior to 1994 !  The only thing the whites ever did wrong in SA was to try and uplift the black people, which probably was a mistake because if they did what we are accused of daily on TV, then how the hell can there still be 50 million blacks if the whites murdered them out by the thousands ?  Perhaps we should have done what the US did with the indians ?  We had every opportunity to do so.




> Get over the idea of the old NP government, it is gone, and BTW: if I was black I would also have been throwing rocks from my Blacks-Only grimy park bench. The problems in this country are not black vs white - it is rich vs poor.


A real communist argument.  If you think anyone is going to work so that a bunch of others doesn't have to work then think again !  Wealth distribution has never in the history of the world make any country prosperous - why would it in SA ?

The old NP government is gone - a shame they were not executed for high treason.  The problem is not white vs black, and it is not rich vs poor either !.  The problem is a corrupt government which wants to stay in power at all cost, even if it means the rest of the people in SA will die of hunger.




> Ok, we all know that bitching and moaning doesn't help, what are you planning to do about the situation?


As a single person there is probably not much I alone can do - especially if there are so many ignorant people who think they have a bright future in a country slowly sinking into poverty ruled by dictators.

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## Fanie

> Fanie > I don’t think that you are a bad person. You probably have good reasons behind all these post. But just think a little about everything. You will find that you are just playing someone else ‘s hand.


The reason I make these posts is because I want people to begin to realize what the truth about SA is.  It will change your mind about a LOT of things going on currently.  One of the reasons the autrocities of this government is allowed is because most people allow it because they go about with serious feelings of guilt about what whites did to blacks - which NEVER HAPPENED !  Yet it is still on TV daily, it was on tv the last two days for hours on end.

Has any one ever wondered what the anc's goals are ?  The words 'anc goals' are mentioned often on Tv but never what it is !  For one, the constitution that allows you rights are a threat to the anc - wonder why !

One of the reasons the false accusations are so hammered on is the genocide that is taking place has to be justified.  Well dammit, if the whole world knows about it, how come you don't hear any of it in SA ?  Read dr Stanton's website, read about the quiet murders committed daily in SA, why were the UN in SA about the genocide taking place.  Think they are going to advertise it ?  Of course not !

Poverty is a problem in SA because firstly our borders are open and the whole of Africa is streaming in to vote for the anc because the minority whites are the big problem to all of Africa's problems.  Even if all the whites leave it will still be our fault and in 500 years on it will still be the same.  The government WANTS to dump everyone in poverty because then the political resistance will be removed and they can become a dictatorship, ruling unconditionally.  Whites and blacks work in piece most of the time untill election time, then racism is blown up out of proportion.

You need two to five years to fix a serious problem in a country - not still fail after 18 years good grief !

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## tec0

Ok let me enlighten you on a few facts. Firstly the UN has much more history on all of us then you may think. Secondly Africa is important to them. Now I think because the UN are bigger than anything recorded in human history. Do you not think they will act if the need arises? 

Now you are telling us that we are alone and you go on and on about the truth and us being lazy. 

No you are wrong, I got a brain and my brain tells me that the UN can be trusted. 

Right now you are just playing someone else’s hand Fanie... 

You have your points and you will make them regardless... This much I know...  But we are not buying what you are selling. Not because of the sales pitch but because the sales person is not listening.

The truth I don’t have a problem with it is your intent...

I am not taking sides Fanie, the truth is as it stands.

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## Newretailer

I detest white racists as much as any other colour. The nonsense they are spewing are as bad as what Malema is doing. There are many black people on this forum. How happy would you be if ridiculous generalisations about whites were made here? I am a white Afrikaans-speaking person and AM DISTANCING MYSELF FROM ALL THIS. I do not want to go back to apartheid years EVER. I still remember the inhumane treatment dished out towards black people by good, Christian white people. I still remember watching people being beaten up because they had the audacity to simply be. People being treated worse than we treated our pets. I would rather live in a country with all the current nonsense than ever going back to what we had.

This country do not need this divisive nonsense. We need to stand together against corruption, self-enrichment and crime. Crime is being committed against all race groups. Black women are beaten and raped. White men beat their wives and rape women. Rich white women shoplift. If you really want a better future for your children, start by treating every human being with the respect they deserve.

It is attitudes like these that make sure Malema has the following he has.

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Dave A (19-Dec-11)

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## adrianh

Wow Fanie, I think you should start you own political party. I am sure that you might actually get somebody to vote for you, I hear Julius is looking for a new cause.

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tec0 (19-Dec-11)

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## Blurock

> As a single person there is probably not much I alone can do - especially if there are so many ignorant people who think they have a bright future in a country slowly sinking into poverty ruled by dictators.


So what is your solution?  :Confused:

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## adrianh

> Well it's not my job to tutor you on things you don't know because you're either too lazy or ignorant to reseach yourself.


Ag I'm sorry man, all us black and white people that live happily together are far too lazy to take up your views. :Stick Out Tongue: 




> Blacks are NEVER satisfied or happy with anything. They were struggeling since I can remember and they are still struggeling today,


Maar ou broer, now how is that different from you, you are also not happy and your seem to be struggling as well. :Confused: 




> The only thing the whites ever did wrong in SA was to try and uplift the black people


Ou broer, they say that men are from Mars and women are from Venus...Where did you grow up, on the planet Uranus? :Slap: 




> A real communist argument.


So if I am a communist because I have a problem with "Whites only" signs does that make me part of "Die Groot Swart Gevaar" or "Die Groot Wit Gevaar". :Zyfingerdance: 

*Ou broer, You are far too clever for us lazy ignorant peace loving people. Maybe you should go and converse with people as enlightened as yourself and not waste your time on us...ag please man, we beg you, go away and stop bothering us!* :Zzzzz:

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## tec0

Life is temporary, now in my book you have two options. The first is to make your every moment a living hell and not enjoy anything and just hate... well everything. Or the second less popular choice and that is live and let live and just at least give life your best shot.

Fanie >Get yourself a life dude... This is not living this is making excuses for not living.

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## desA

I do not ever see the so-called 'old SA' reviving itself. That is an era thankfully long past.

What I do see, however, is a country at war with itself. There is no cohesive social contract. Many of its citizens are struggling to survive. The younger generation has nothing to aspire to. Mines are to be nationalised, farms are to be taken without compensation. Industry is winding downwards. Infrastructure is unraveling. Government plays the fool & enriches themselves & their cronies, while Tswane (Pretoria) burns.

Can this nation remain in one piece? If so, how?

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## Newretailer

DesA, there are many black people as discontent with the government's corruption and self-enrichment as any other colour. The only hope I see for South Africa is if a new, truly non-racial party emerges who actually cares about its citizens. I hoped that the DA could be that, but I think they are still seen as a white party.

If we want to live together peacefully, we should act in ways that change the minds of the others. We are after all humans who share the same dreams, emotions and hurts.

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Blurock (20-Dec-11)

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## tec0

I don’t know, part of being human is not having all the answers. But you are making a big mistake in thinking that there is a magic cure. Live while you can. Love while you are still able and enjoy what is left. Truth is you cannot do anything about anything. It is just not in our hands anymore. 

Not a nice thought but it is the truth.

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