# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Eliminate all resistance

## Dave A

Whatever Julius Malema represents, it certainly is not democracy or the due process of law.



> Remnants of the counter-revolution, including the Democratic Alliance, and those opposed to Jacob Zuma becoming South Africa's next president must be eliminated, says ANC Youth League President Julius Malema.
> 
> "We must â¦ intensify the struggle to eliminate the remnants of counter-revolution, which include the DA and a loose coalition of those who want to use state power to block the ANC president's ascendancy to the highest office of the land," he said on Sunday.
> 
> Malema was speaking at the funeral of former ANCYL Free State secretary Thabo "Skotch" Moeketsi in Vredefort.
> 
> Malema also said members of the ANC and its Youth League who got involved in crimes like stealing public money or stabbing other members were "rotten apples" who should be "uprooted from our midst without mercy".
> 
> "The ANC and indeed the Youth League have no place for people who carry sour grapes and create cabals because they believe they are entitled to leadership."
> full story from IOL here


I think democracy is in for a stern test under a Zuma government at this rate.

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## duncan drennan

> "We must â¦ intensify the struggle to eliminate the remnants of counter-revolution, which include the DA and a loose coalition of those who want to use state power to block the ANC president's ascendancy to the highest office of the land," he said on Sunday.





> "The ANC and indeed the Youth League have no place for people who carry sour grapes and create cabals because they believe they are entitled to leadership."


Huh?????  :Confused: 

Those two statements are not congruent.

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## Dave A

> Those two statements are not congruent.


I'd given up on common sense already  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

This crowd has got some *serious* paradigm gaps.

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## Alta Murray

If it wasn't so serious it would be very funny, and I think as a SA with a keen sense of gallows humour, I do laugh until I think of Africa and it's general performance to date.  

It reminds me of Mogabe tactics -- just eliminate the opposition and call it democracy, not that the latter exists in a true form and it always means mass rule.  I am more in favour of a King/Queen in conjunction with Parliament, but then I am a very lone voice in finding that the best method of Government.

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## Dave A

The Constitutional Court has delivered its judgement. 



> The Constitutional Court has removed the biggest remaining legal obstacle to the corruption and fraud trial of ANC president Jacob Zuma and rejected allegations of bias against it following its formal complaint against Cape Judge President John Hlophe. 
> 
> By a 10 to one majority the court upheld the legality of warrants for search and seizure raids by the Scorpions in August and September 2005 at Zuma's homes and the offices of his attorney, Michael Hulley, and the French arms company Thint. 
> 
> In a judgement released on Thursday it also ruled unanimously that the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) could seek access to original documents held in Mauritius, including the diary of Thint's Alain Thetard, which allegedly records meetings between Zuma, his financial adviser Schabir Shaik and Thetard.
> full story from M&G here


The usual suspects have roled out their condemnation of the ruling.



> Cosatu and the South African Communist Party have condemned the Constitutional Courtâs ruling on ANC president Jacob Zumaâs application as confirmation that he is being tried for political reasons.
> 
> SACP leader Blade Nzimande described the courtâs ruling as a âconstitutional jungleâ. 
> 
> âWe are going a dangerous route of becoming a banana republic,â Nzimande told the Mail & Guardian. He said the SACP was concerned about the credibility of the Constitutional Court.
> 
> Both Cosatu and the SACP said they would intensify their campaign for charges against Zuma to be dropped.

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## duncan drennan

> The usual suspects have roled out their condemnation of the ruling.


 :Yawn:   :Yawn:  Refer to this Zapiro.

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## Dave A

I see there are also mutterings about a possible amnesty for corruption related to the arms deal. A "political" solution.

Now my question on that is - What defines a banana republic exactly? (Seeing as the subject of banana republics has been introduced by comrade Blade).

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## duncan drennan

> I see there are also mutterings about a possible amnesty for corruption related to the arms deal. A "political" solution.


Also noticed this. Ducking, diving, weaving, bopping - when will it end as long as there are back doors for every person who steals from the country?




> Now my question on that is - What defines a banana republic exactly? (Seeing as the subject of banana republics has been introduced by comrade Blade).


Well, you are in KZN so you probably know a lot more about bananas than I do. I wouldn't mind seeing some people slip on bananas or go bananas - maybe even eat some humble banana pie. Maybe banana is just a veiled word for dick - so a banana republic is a place with a bunch of dicks running it.

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## Dave A

Personally, I'd go with subjective interpretation and application of the law, corrupt governance, political favour, elimination of opposition, Draconian practices, that sort of thing. Comrade Blade has good reason to be concerned.

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## duncan drennan

It just makes me so angry. We have this amazing country filled with beautiful people and then we have this bunch of power grabbers who just want to get their grubby paws on everything. They all make out as if they have the purest intentions and the good of the people at heart - but really, where are the outcomes?

There are all these games being played, all these idiots who get media time for saying stupid stuff and the slow continuous whittling away at values which moved the country out of a repressive regime. Where are the good people in the story?

There must be people within the ANC who feel as strongly about this - why are they allowing all of this foolish behaviour?

Maybe the right question to be asking is why are we (I) allowing this to happen?

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## Yvonne

I have typed so many answers, and delete them all - what is going on now just seems so unbelievable!

Would any any other South African citizen involved in a drunk driving case be treated the same? We know the answer.
Any other suspect given the same circumstances as McBride?
Etc. Etc.

The message being sent out is without a shadow of a doubt!  Crime, corruption, abuse of power - anything goes - as long as you are an ANC politician!

There is such a long list, that we are now already forgetting the individual cases!

There are so many, many wonderful people in South Africa - we just have got to hear more about them! 

When I listen to Rudi Direko (apologies if i have spelt it incorrectly) she is someone who gives me hope!  
But I fear for her!  
Will she continue to have the courage to speak out?
I just cannot believe some of the abusive calls she receives, it makes me feel ashamed to be South African.

I pray for a new political party, hopefully with people like Rudi Direko, who must come to the fore, before we are too entrenched in "anyone who does not accept and agree with the ANC politicians right to do and act as they please! - is against the national interests ideology.

Yvonne

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## Alan

> I am more in favour of a King/Queen in conjunction with Parliament, but then I am a very lone voice in finding that the best method of Government.


Alta this may be worth a try, as democracy does not seem to work in most of Africa.

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## duncan drennan

Maybe we just need more women presidents.

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## Dave A

> Johnson-Sirleaf is the first woman elected president on the continent.


And an impressive position on many issues, by the looks of things.

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## Dave A

Helen Zille's position...



> Every person, including Jacob Zuma, must be equal before the law and every person must have the right to a fair trial, opposition leader Helen Zille said on Saturday at a crime imbizo in Durban.
> 
> "ANC leaders have now vowed that Zuma will walk free, no matter what evidence there is against him," the Democratic Alliance leader said in remarks prepared for delivery.
> 
> "They are effectively saying that if you are powerful enough you are above the law."
> full story from IOL here


No surprises there.

However, this story is a little more explosive:



> Despite a pre-emptive strike by President Thabo Mbeki's staff to discredit it, the Sunday Times has published explosive allegations that Mbeki was paid R30-million by a German shipbuilding company to guarantee it would receive a submarine contract in South Africa's multibillion-rand arms deal. 
> 
> According to the newspaper, a secret report compiled last year by a British specialist risk company revealed the deal. Mbeki allegedly gave R2-million of the money to Jacob Zuma and the rest to the African National Congress (ANC).
> full story from M&G here


Whether it is true or false, there are serious consequences. Particularly if you look at the timing of the release.

If true - WOW!

If false, who fabricated the report and why?

SA politics is looking *really* ugly right now.

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## Alta Murray

Hi Alan,
Sorry for the late reply, I am so busy that I actually am missing out on all the fun that is politics  :Smile:   I find it the best solution that I have come across so far, as I view a democracy as based on current model nothing but a fledgling of the French Rev. ie Mob Rule.  

I can not even feign surprise at what is happening now as the real question is not why but rather why not? I read through the Constitution and I almost hosed myself when it came to discrimination. Therefore Vodacom(?) can have an ad stating that Black people may buy shares  :Smile:  

I am busy reading actually lumbering through the Ghost of King Leipoldt, man, I have to say Africa beats any continent any day for abusive of power.  

With said 'mob rule' in place and the low level of education how easy it then becomes to rule by what the people can understand -- brute power and being above the law. Fear becomes the ruling scepter.  

But what beautiful people we have in this country!!  I know a trip to Internal Affairs is at best a horrid experience, but I had such fun with the people.  Perhaps the positive outcome of this regime, is that it does band us together.

The ANC reminds me of the boiling frog, the abuse of power escalated slowly, therefore the voices of discontent are but a murmur.  And yes, there are great human beings within the ANC, I have actually met some of them.

We are in deep shit in this country, as what it is happening now is but a pre-cursor of things to come.  Ever heard of the African Renaissance? Play that up against what is happening in Zim and the reluctance to intervene.  

I think I shall pop a letter off to the Queen as Head of the Commonwealth, and air my grieviances with her, using a spelling check of course :Smile:

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## Alta Murray

Hi Dave,
Equal before the law? That is the friggin law of this land the last time I checked!! I always find it ironic that 'justice is blind'. Duh, she must be!

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## Alta Murray

Hi Duncan,

Of course women make better presidents, it is the maternal instinct as opposed to raging testosterone.  Nah, just kidding on the latter part. But Thatcher was a phenomena of unbelievable proportions. Perhaps we need a Queen Thatcher in whatever colour she comes.  I am so tired of the colour issue in this country, I can absolutely scream.  But the previous regime did not have my vote either as I believe in equality before God and man.  

And I shall do so till my dying day.

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## Marq

This is from ehow.com 

How to Run a Banana Republic

By eHow Careers & Work Editor

Rate: (2 Ratings)

The term banana republic evokes visions of a small country run by a malicious dictator. So you'll need to make sure you live up to the most infamous rulers throughout history. If you want to be the dictator of your own Banana Republic, follow the rules for running your island paradise into the ground.

Difficulty: Challenging

*Step1*
Go bananas. You'll need an insatiable thirst for money and a small heart. The seductive qualities of dictatorship have led to innumerable tragedies as human nature collapses into its own worst realities. Other dictators will laugh at you if you can't continue the cycle.
*Step2*
Spy on your citizens. It's best not to think of your people as actual people, it will only make you sad. Instead, think of them as oxen working toward your goals; small, bipedal, ursurpering oxen looking to stab you in the back at any opportunity. They must be put to work or chaos will reign...not you.
*Step3*
Ignore treaties from adjacent republics. Cooperation and good will can destroy the nightmare you worked so hard to create. If you accidentally find yourself in a relationship with another country, a border war will solve that nicely.
*Step4*
Democratic government structures can be self-sustaining with groundswells of popular grassroots action driving local business and culture. Nip this bit of trouble in the bud. At the first sign of a "bottoms-up" economic model forming, imprison a few people unjustly and make the others disappear. This should help quell any outcry for organization from the people. Also, crack the whip for crying out loud. If your peons have the time to mobilize, they aren't working hard enough loading Bananas onto boats.
*Step5*
Never participate in equitable distribution. You worked hard for the money you have, you should keep it. After all, you were born in squalor and look at you now. Look at you! You have a beard! That's awesome! Privatize at every opportunity, and whenever possible, sell your chief export to the US; they'll keep you in power for years.

And there you have it.

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## Marq

Talking about dictators, I was reminded of a rumour I saw today, suggesting that our town clerk in Durban was headed for bigger political things when next years election comes around. 

Now that Durban is in total disarray and its community up in arms on just about any subject that comes to mind - its leader gets promoted. Well thats the rumour and if we look at the political games he has been playing instead of listening to the downtrodden railroaded citizens and doing something positive and good that helps everybody out, I for one would not be surprised if he shoots for the presidency when Zuma is sitting wondering where it all went wrong.

This socialist/communist is far from a democratic supporter, appears to be trying his utmost to oust the rich man as well as the white man judging from his comments. His coup's include the loss of the blue flag status on Durban beaches, millions of rand losses on white elephants like huge conference centres and fancy amusement parks, doubling and in some cases quadrupling the rates bills for the affluent to pay for his blunders, renaming the streets to names that no one has heard of our can pronounce or that will fit on a map, building a three billion rand soccer stadium right next door to an adequately existing one, organising an A1 GP failure, bailing out failed bus services operations that had been 'privatised', writes off millions in traffic fines and outstanding rates for those who cannot afford them to name a few problem areas. He has defended and condoned a constable in our police force that owns 30 million rands worth of property and has taxi bosses and political figures running for cover, he has defended the loss of weapons from the police even when they have been used against the police and has apparently failed woefully to ensure that electrical, water and sewerage systems have been properly maintained. Oh and his excuse for most of this is apparently the higher rainfall we are experiencing in the area. 

Fin24.com has this obit..sorry bio 


> MILLION RAND MIKE gets up noses - even more so since it emerged in Parliament that at R1,08m/year he's SA's highest paid city manager.[Jan2007]
> Michael Sutcliffe has set eThekwini (Durban) on a new course since he became city manager in July 2002. [Operation downhill? Obstinate course? Race course?]
> Sutcliffe picks up flak for sticking to his guns. He won't clear hawkers off the streets, arguing it's inconsistent with job creation. [But clears them and every street child and every vagrant when any international conference is on in town - where do they go - nobody knows]
> A local, born and schooled in Toti - you don't get more boy in da hood than that [?]- Sutcliffe escaped academia when elected to the province in 1994. An ANC faithful, he's achieved much in provincial and local government since then and has fostered a new style of "smart city management". [Smart? - man are we in trouble]


But Mail and Guardian's comment sums it up - 


> "Sutcliffe has been routinely criticised during his six-year tenure for responding to municipal problems and public failures with obfuscation, denials, intellectual bullying and character assassinations of critics."


And guess what - It appears that he is headed for higher status and bigger things.

Well that's right isn't it? Why should Durban be the only one having fun in the country?

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## murdock

and it just gets funnier...with some people sitting in hospital for most of the jail sentence for fraud  and now i hear they are considering releasing prisoners who are seriously ill...people try to commit suicide before being arrested for drunk driving...maybe he is hoping by the time he actually gets arrested they will be releasing the ill prisioners...maybe the 4 young fellas arrested a couple days ago will also get released because of the state they are gona be by the time all the imates are finished with them...i know there is no excuse for what they did but i would rather be the dead person than spend 12 years in a SA jail.

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## Dave A

> The "rolling mass action", aimed at getting the criminal charges against ANC president Jacob Zuma droppedand scheduled to begin on Friday (August 29) in KwaZulu-Natal, was likely to be replicated in other provinces, said ANC eThekwini chairperson John Mchunu. 
> 
> "Already the country has taken a decision that Zuma must not face these charges. It will definitely roll to the other provinces very soon -- yes, we have spoken to the [ANC structures] in other provinces," said Mchunu.
> 
> The eThekwini region has orchestrated the campaign that will target 16 police stations, followed by the picketing of 12 magistrate's courts on September 5.
> 
> On September 10 a picket will be held outside the National Prosecuting Authority's regional office in Durban, followed by a night vigil outside the Pietermaritzburg High Court on September 11. 
> 
> A "massive picket" is also planned at the high court the following day, when Judge Chris Nicholson will rule on Zuma's application to have the NPA's decision to prosecute him declared unlawful.
> ...


I don't remember voting as to whether JZ should stand trial or not, so I'm not so sure that the country has already decided.

I believe (but couldn't find it in this morning's scan) that the ANC has released an official statement supporting the rule of law, independence of the judiciary and all that. Well, what is the President of the ANC going to do about all his supporters who don't seem to feel the same way?

Actually, it's not entirely surprising there seems to be this dicotomy within the party. It's showing up all over.



> Pitched battles between different factions of the ANC in the Northern Cape delayed the start of the party's provincial conference last week, among allegations of intimidation and violence. 
> 
> ANC leaders in the Northern Cape blamed the excessive focus on last year's national conference in Polokwane for the delay. ANC Northern Cape deputy secretary general Zamani Saul said the focus on last year's national congress as a result of the tight race for the ANC presidency meant that the party had lost control of its membership base at regional and branch level.
> 
> The Northern Cape provincial conference could not start as scheduled last week because of battles between supporters of ANC chairperson John Block and provincial secretary Neville Mompati. Supporters of both factions insisted that they be accredited as delegates to the congress, even though this meant double representation of some branches.
> 
> Saul said the process of selecting branch and regional delegates had been fraught with illegality. He said some regions applied corrupt tactics in nominating representatives for the conference and that in some instances there were two sets of nominations from one region.
> full story from M&G here


I wonder what the chances are of a breakaway group forming for the upcoming national elections?

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## wynn

Yes I wonder if we will see a RANC (Real ANC) taking to the hustings?
Or will a large percentage just not vote?

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## Dave A

So much for being the party with a place for all. Mosiuoa Lekota has expressed his concern about the direction of the ANC of late.



> In a "personal, open letter" to ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe on Thursday, Lekota said the "unusual situation that has now arisen in the African National Congress and the tripartite alliance requires extraordinary steps".
> 
> "I wish to place on record the concerns I see as gnawing away at the ANC with the hope that the leadership might wake up to the dangers our movement faces."
> 
> Lekota wrote that he joined the ANC attracted by its policies, political culture, values, history and its commitment to the interests of the country's people -- black and white -- and was still fervently committed to this cause.
> 
> "However, for some time now, I have lived with a growing sense that our leadership has veered the organisation away from the established policy priorities and customary democratic norms of the ANC."


And how about this response:



> ANC members' criticism of the party amounted to notice of their resignation, its national executive committee said in reaction on Thursday to a strongly worded letter from former defence minister Mosiuoa Lekota. 
> 
> "Put bluntly, you and those who share your views are giving notice to leave the ANC," Transport Minister Jeff Radebe, a member of the NEC, wrote in a reply to Lekota's letter.
> 
> "For the record, the ANC is a voluntary association of individuals who believe in it, and who [are] free to leave as and when they cease to do so," Radebe said.
> full story from M&G here

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## wynn

Someone else commented that when it comes down to it in the ANC "The centre will hold"
He forgot that when it comes to politics, if the ANC takes a step to the left,  "The centre will also hold"

 :Wink:

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## Morticia

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_i...4542710C782810

Et tu Brute??  :Big Grin:

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## Dave A

I reckon the ANC has been well and truly hijacked for the forseeable future.

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## Alta Murray

Very, very busy at this stage, but just had to contribute this bit:

According to our constitution Act 108 '96 Section 143 sub2 sub B a premier of a province can claim him/herself as sovereign of said state :-) So beware..... you never know, fortunately neither do they it seems.

A split in the ANC, which seems inevitable, is a very good thing to mine little ears. 

I'm so tired I can't even spell, not that I could before, so perhaps i should refrain from comment?

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## Dave A

It's "wave goodbye to the scorpions" day today.

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## Dave A

So Kader Asmal resigned over the Scorpions issue!



> Former Cabinet minister Kader Asmal resigned from Parliament because he did not want to vote for the disbanding of the Scorpions, he said in a lecture on Tuesday evening. 
> 
> It would have been immoral of him to vote for the disbanding of the elite crime fighting unit, Asmal told an audience at the University of Johannesburg, Beeld newspaper reported on Wednesday.
> 
> He said he had made it clear that he did not want the Scorpions to be disbanded and that he stuck to his principles by retiring.
> 
> Asmal also said the so-called Travelgate MPs should not have been allowed to vote on the disbanding of the unit.
> full story from M&G here

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## Morticia

If nothing else, at least Julius Malema has a solid legal background..........hehehe

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## Dave A

Now that really scares me  :EEK!:

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## Dave A

Well, the threat to break up the efforts of the new party is becoming a reality.



> The United Democratic Movement expressed concern on Saturday after Congress of the People leader, Terror Lekota's scheduled meeting was disrupted by ANC President supporters in Durban.
> 
> "The lack of tolerance by the ANC structures in KwaZulu-Natal against Lekota should be viewed as a culmination of the warrior talk and promotion of ethnic tendencies which have been spearheaded by Zuma and his tripartite KZN leaders," UDM President, Bantu Holomisa said.
> 
> On Thursday a meeting scheduled to be addressed by Lekota in Verulam, north of Durban was disrupted by 200 ANC supporters.
> 
> Most of the supporters who were wearing T-shirts with Zuma's picture and brandishing Zuma banners, burst into the hall and toyi-toyied, preventing the meeting from getting off the ground.
> full story from IOL here


The campaign to eliminate all resistance also looks set to move onto a new target.



> The SABC could have an interim board by early next month, with indications that it might include trade unionists Randall Howard and Cunningham Ngcukana. 
> 
> The ANC, Cosatu and the South African Communist Party also want the chief executive of SABC news, Snuki Zikalala, replaced after the board has been dissolved. 
> 
> The name of Phil Molefe, currently general manager of international affairs, has been mentioned as a possible replacement.
> 
> The ANC and its allies are pushing for an interim board to be in place by early December. They allegedly plan to use aspects of the SABC's annual report, which it will present to Parliament next Tuesday, to mount a no-confidence motion.
> 
> ANC parliamentary caucus spokesperson Khotso Khumalo told The Sunday Independent last week that Parliament "is going to get rid of the board". He told the Mail & Guardian that he "said that, and I stick to my views".
> ...

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## I Robot

Second reading of South African Police Service Amendment       Bill (B30b-2008) by Minister of Safety and Security N                              Mthethwa     

19 November 2008 

Madam Chairperson 

The South African Police Service Amendment Bill and the National Prosecuting Authority Amendment Bill jointly effect the establishment of a new, integrated division in the South African Police Service to prevent, combat and investigate national priority crimes. 

Firstly I wish to thank the Select Committee for Security and Constitutional Affairs for the role it played in the development of the Bill now being considered. Normally the committee would only become involved in the consideration of a section 75 Bill, after adoption thereof by the National Assembly. 

In the case of this Bill, the committee was part of all deliberations, including the public hearings all over the country and the public hearings in the Joint Portfolio Committees on Justice and Safety and Security. Despite this, the committee, once it started deliberations on the Bill, interrogated all aspects thereof afresh intensively and critically. The committee also allowed further submissions on both Bills, by Institute for Democracy in South Africa (IDASA) and the Centre for Constitutional Rights and also allowed these institutions to make oral submissions, although the issues raised were also deliberated upon in the Joint Committees. 

Madam Chairperson, I am confident that everything possible was done through the whole parliamentary process to ensure maximum public consultation as well as the best possible law to be developed. The Bill that was originally introduced underwent major amendments ranging from the level of the Head of the Directorate, which is now a Deputy National Commissioner, appointed by the Minister, in concurrence with Cabinet, to various co-ordination and oversight mechanisms.

More...

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## Dave A

And further down in the release:



> A degree of operational independence is provided for by elevating the Head of the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation (DPCI), to a Deputy National Commissioner appointed by the Minister in concurrence with Cabinet.


Thus opening the door to direct political influence, it seems.

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## Dave A

> *Davis likens ANC to Nats*
> 
> The political climate, where "influential members of the ruling party" have labelled senior judges "counter-revolutionary", resembles that of the nationalist government of 50 years ago, says senior Judge Dennis Davis. 
> 
> In a new book, co-authored with advocate Michelle le Roux, Precedent and Possibility: the (ab)use of law in South Africa, Davis writes this should serve as a "salutary warning of a possible threat to the judicial institution".
> 
> ANC attacks on the judiciary, he writes, recall the Nationalist campaign to disenfranchise Cape coloureds in the Fifties, when the government reacted to initial failure by packing the Bench with executive-minded judges. Two other judges, including the then chief justice, Albert Centlivres, a strong believer in human rights in the common law, eventually retreated and gave a judgement favourable to the government in the notorious Collins case.
> 
> Davis asks whether Judge Chris Nicholson's controversial ruling in favour of ANC president Jacob Zuma should not be seen in the same light.
> ...


Disturbing.

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## wynn

And then Malema and the ANCYL apologised for using "Kill for Zuma"

I still think the Pangas (and worse) are being distributed and sharpened.

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## Dave A

Oh this is sweet.



> The Congress of the People (Cope) in KwaZulu-Natal (KZN) wants the African National Congress (ANC) to reimburse it after disrupting a branch meeting, or it will take the matter to the Public Protector or the Small Claims Court. 
> 
> On November 13, Cope held a branch meeting in Verulam, which was disrupted, allegedly by ANC members.
> 
> Cope provincial secretary Phillip Mhlongo said in a statement they wanted to be reimbursed for booking the hall, hiring electronic equipment and for the flight of their leader, Mosiuoa Lekota, to and from Durban.
> 
> Mhlongo said people wearing T-shirts bearing the image of ANC president Jacob Zuma arrived in a Durban metro vehicle, forced their way into the hall, sang and threw chairs around.
> 
> "People had to duck for cover because chairs were flying all over. This was more than just an act of barbarism ... They must give us back the money we used for that meeting," said Mhlongo.
> ...

----------

duncan drennan (09-Dec-08), Graeme (03-Dec-08)

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## Dave A

Just wondering...



> The leader of the Inkatha Freedom Party Youth Brigade, Shadrack Dube, has been shot dead in KwaZulu-Natal, the party said on Monday. 
> 
> "Dube was shot with eight bullets by unknown assailants as he came back from buying airtime not far from his house at Phumlani township, in Hluhluwe," said party chairperson in the Mkhanyakude district municipality Alfred Mpontshane in a statement. The murder happened on Sunday. 
> 
> The party described the killing as a systematic campaign to eliminate its leaders, derail its campaign and intimidate its supporters before the general elections.
> full story from M&G here


I see there has been a steady stream of disruptions to COPE meetings too. And the shooting of a whistle-blower on ANC corruption, although on balance if that was a hit there was some pretty shoddy marksmanship involved...

The toll seems to be climbing.

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## Yvonne

One issue that is of great concern to me is the deafening silence on the murder of the highest officer for Mbeki's personal safety at a crucial moment in our history! 
Has anyone read anything further regarding his death or the investigation?  

Also has there been any further reports regarding the investigation of the EThekweni vehicle used in the post above?

I am presently in the U.S.A. so may have missed media reports!

Yvonne

Yvonne

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## Dave A

Haven't heard a thing, Yvonne. These incidents seem to make news at the time they occur and not much is heard after. Even the official ANC releases criticising the disruption of COPE meetings are more questioning whether these are indeed ANC cadres causing the problem than meaningful instruction to their adherents not to do it.

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## Dave A

Some eager beavers are keen to get tearing into their quarry.



> ANC chief whip Nyamezeli Booi is pressing ahead with plans to meet President Kgalema Motlanthe to clarify why he has yet to sign the so-called SABC bill into law.
> 
> Booi told Sapa on Thursday afternoon that he still planned to meet with Motlanthe to ask the president why the bill and the two Scorpions bills had not been signed.
> 
> "I will be meeting him," he said, but declined to elaborate on his concerns, because "I have already said enough".
> 
> Earlier, the Argus newspaper quoted Booi as saying: "Why hasn't he signed it? We have no insight into what is happening.
> 
> "Parliament has done its job. As a chief whip of the party I am concerned about that."
> ...


I'm pretty curious about the cause of the delay.

Not that I want them signed, mind you. I'm not quite as convinced as the above that this really needs to happen any time soon, if ever.

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## duncan drennan

Looking through the articles today there seems to be a subtle shift in the rhetoric.




> The Mail & Guardian has established that the ANC intends to show the NPA that Zuma is small fry in the arms deal saga and that it is in possession of much more damaging evidence, including documentation that allegedly implicates former president Thabo Mbeki and Cope president Mosiuoa Lekota in wrongdoing.
> 
> High-profile legal teams hired by Zuma and the ANC also plan to:
> 
>     * âProveâ to the NPA that Zuma had no criminal intent when he accepted gifts and money from fraud convict Schabir Shaik and can therefore not be convicted of corruption; and
>     * Argue that persisting with Zumaâs prosecution is not in the public interest.
> Full story on M&G


Still the absolutely best quote of yesterday goes to Julius Malema. I can't find a written reference to it, but saw him saying this on the news last night, "There is no way to prove political conspiracy."

I just absolutely love it.

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## Dave A

Quite a hard hitting piece here called Don Zuma and the untouchables.

Methinks the cadres are confusing public interest with the "family's" interest.

It certainly would be refreshing for the ANC to come clean on the arms deal - but I don't see it happening.

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## garthu

I must say the launch of a new party like Cope gives hope to democracy for a country, but what i picked up yesterday really concerned me as i'm a bit of a stickler for copyright etc.

An 8 page full colour brochure waas handed to us at the robots for COPE. I had a quick scan through it as politics is really neither my forte nor do i really have much interest in it.
Inside if it was 4 or 5 full page pics of various South african people. A taxi with several people in it, 2 ladies in a rugby crown painted to the full in SA colours, a business lady on a cell phone. All the pics had the same quality's, REALLY BAD photo shop changes.

Then it i read the small print, DISCALIMER, IF YOU ARE THE PERSON IN THIS PHOTO, PLEASE CONTACT US!

Instant loss in any support they may or may not have ever gained from me! Imagine you are the person represented in the brochure, who may not want any affiliation with COPE or not, may not want involvement i politics, may be a die hard DA or ANC supporter. Imagine the potential lawsuite!! They certainly seem to believe the word "DISCLAIMER" maybe protects them... don't know.

So many rights being infringed on there by a new party... makes you wonder??

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## duncan drennan

> Quite a hard hitting piece here called Don Zuma and the untouchables.


Yes, this was an interesting one! It is time for the ANC to start acting like they mean what they say, and for people to call them out on their inconsistencies (as well as any other party's).

I see that there are going to be debates screened on one of the SABC channels - hopefully it will be interesting. I think it would be good to try to achieve the same levels of interest in those debates as the USA presidential debates.

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## Dave A

> And the shooting of a whistle-blower on ANC corruption, although on balance if that was a hit there was some pretty shoddy marksmanship involved...


Although the first part of this link is about Chris Grib skipping the country, the next story lower down revolves around the now deceased whistle-blower. Perhaps it was a hit after all.

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## IanF

I can't believe from M&G



> Zuma seeks to fast-track corruption cases
> MANDY ROSSOUW | JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA 
> ANC president Jacob Zuma wants to create “shortcuts” in dealing with corruption so that others do not suffer the same fate as him when he was accused of corruption and fraud.
> 
> Zuma addressed the 400 delegates at the party’s list conference in Esselen Park outside Johannesburg where he complained that the “route to deal with corruption is too long”.
> 
> Zuma will be the party’s presidential candidate for the upcoming elections, but he is on trial for corruption and fraud, a case the ANC perceives as a political trial in which he has been unfairly treated.
> 
> “We must find a way to shorten the route to deal with corruption. The route is too long because it allows people to run off the tracks. Some of us are said to be involved in one thing or the other. You begin to have people harden [their] attitudes towards others,” he said.


Link *here* this, I gave up on politicians after seeing the Nats in action in the 80s now ANC has sunk even lower. The irony and naivetie of the ANC members leaves me speechless :Taz:

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## Yvonne

I have tried to find any articles on Mbeki's personal security officer without any success. Surely that in itself is seriously odd?

Yvonne

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## I Robot

President has assented to the National Prosecuting Authority    Amendment Bill, 2008 and the South African Police Service                      Amendment Bill, 2008.   

30 January 2009 

President Kgalema Motlanthe has assented to the National Prosecuting Authority Amendment Bill, 2008 and the South African Police Service Amendment Bill, 2008.   

After careful consideration of the submissions received on the above Bills, the President finds that there is no basis for constitutional reservations as contemplated in section 79(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996.

More...

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## Dave A

So that's it. Bye bye Scorpions. Thanks for all the good work.

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## Dave A

Now who to pick as head of the NPA?  :Whistling: 



> Durban advocate Muzi Mkhize, tipped to take over as national prosecutions boss, is up to his neck in the Land Bank scandal. Mkhize admitted under oath to complicity in what amounts to corrupt attempts to secure multimillion-rand loans from the bank. 
> 
> He partnered Kobus Boshoff, now on trial for fraud, and top Land Bank officials in companies that submitted the loan applications and allegedly channelled kickbacks to the officials.
> 
> The officials, Mkhize stated in an affidavit, had to "co-ordinate the loan applications" in return for "benefits in the transaction or companies".
> 
> The affidavit was made during official investigations into hundreds of millions of rands irregularly lent by the bank. The scandal culminated in Cabinet removing the bank from Agriculture Minister Lulu Xingwana's portfolio last July and handing it to Finance Minister Trevor Manuel to clean up the mess.
> 
> Mkhize was not available for comment on Thursday. Speculation has been rife this week that Mkhize will replace Vusi Pikoli as national director of public prosecutions.
> ...


Yep. He'll be perfect!

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## garthu

:Banghead: 

Oh wait i get it... need a crook to catch a crook...

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## Graeme

And he will fit in so perfectly!

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## Dave A

It seems this last weekend was a pretty exciting one in the Nongoma area. We have a pedestrian knocked down by the Zuma cavalcade, police and IFP supporter clashes, and some pot shots taken.

Now the ANC has taken the matter up iwth the IEC.



> The African National Congress (ANC) on Tuesday lodged a complaint with the Independent Electoral Commission (IEC) about violence in Nongoma, which the party claimed was perpetrated by Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP) supporters. 
> 
> ANC chairperson in KwaZulu-Natal Dr Zweli Mkhize handed the complaint to the province's chief electoral officer, Mawethu Mosery, at the IEC's office in Durban.
> 
> "The grievance arises from an accumulation of our experience on IFP violence and [its] hostile attitude towards the ANC every election since 1994.
> 
> "Our view is that the IFP has taken a deliberate long-term view that they will never allow the ANC to freely campaign in Ulundi and Nongoma, even if that results in the death of their opponents."
> 
> "The ANC would like the IEC to examine the eligibility of Ulundi and Nongoma areas for purposes of forthcoming elections, on the grounds that free campaigning is deliberately opened to one party, the IFP.
> ...


I'm really delighted to hear the IEC feels that way. I wonder how the IEC has faired with all the anti-COPE nonsense by ANC supporters mentioned on page 4 of this same thread?

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## Dave A

> The Democratic Alliance (DA) will not be intimidated by political thugs, party leader Helen Zille said on Thursday. 
> 
> Zille alleged that the African National Congress (ANC) had bussed in supporters to Siyabuswa, Mpumalanga, where they barricaded a community hall in an attempt to stop her from speaking. 
> 
> "It didn't succeed. We simply pushed past them and got on with it. We will not be intimidated by political thugs," she told a crowd at Embalenhle Stadium in Secunda, Mpumalanga.
> 
> However, ANC spokesperson Lindiwe Zulu denied the party was behind the alleged intimidation of the DA or any other parties.
> 
> She said: "As a matter of principle, the ANC never at any point mobilised anyone to intimidate opposition parties. We do not mobilise people to do such things.
> ...


They'll probably have their ANC t-shirts confiscated and have a street named after them instead  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Dave A

This Zille Western Cape cabinet business is getting way out of hand.



> The fallout over Premier Helen Zille's appointment of an all-male, mostly white provincial executive has intensified with a flurry of insults as well as threats of strikes and hauling her before the Equality Court.
> full story from IOL here


Personally I think Helen Zille has shot herself in the foot with this cabinet selection. She can justify as much as she likes - her game nowadays is politics and if this is the DA's flagship as to how they would run the rest of the country... Well, the lack of representivity is not very encouraging.

More ominous is the response from COSATU, the ANCYL and the YCL, particularly COSATU. It is clear there is no intention of giving the DA any breathing room to prove themselves, which is in rather stark contrast to the "let's give him a chance" space being afforded to Jacob Zuma and co.

In the performance race between the DA in the Western Cape and the ANC elsewhere, the ANC has clearly got off to an early lead.

What I can't decide in this rapid escalation on the issue is whether Helen was simply asking for trouble, or whether the tripartite alliance was going to go all out to eliminate the DA threat of a successful tenure at the helm anyway.

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## Morticia

> Personally I think Helen Zille has shot herself in the foot with this cabinet selection.


Me thinks too much Botox has befuddled Mme Zille's brains.  :Crazy:

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## Marq

> I think Helen Zille has shot herself in the foot


I don't agree.

Like you indicated, the ANC have attacked Zille since day one that the DA won the Province.

I see this as just another organised ANC attack on the DA. 




> "An absolute majority of South Africans support President Jacob Zuma and will find it very disgusting for a fake, racist, apartheid agent to continue undermining the highest office in South Africa,"


This is a common thread by the ANCYL - and COSATU representing the ANC,  just stirring it up, making the province ungovernable for the DA and trying to show the world that their opposition is not doing a great job.

Sure the DA composition is not representative but then neither is the ANC's makeup and they do not have room to throw racial tones into every argument.

Just a bunch of sore losers at this stage, that cannot see the big picture. Perhaps if the ANC had backed off and allowed the DA to get underway with proper governance, planning and alliance building, Zille would have appointed a different selection. It appears to be a common thread amongst politicians to swing the pendulum completely the opposite way when making decisions, to show the potential disaster and then backing off slightly, looking as if they have given something back. Maybe she has learned from the ANC. Nothing new here.

One thing I think for sure, is that Zille and the DA will not be allowed to govern the Cape properly and that we will see this pattern of 'dirty politics' for the next four years. I just hope that it does not get too ugly....but have an idea that this may just be the beginning.

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## sgafc

I am no sympathiser of President Zuma. And despite not voting thought the opposition would make an impact, but Zille attack on Zumas womanising was not only below the belt(no pun intended), but extremely childish..

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## garthu

This country does not have time or space for these two to start having a go each other. We all pay the price when they waste time here. 

I really do disapprove HZ puns and actions - this isn't going to anyone good. She has lost alot of my support, i really don't consider this a leaders actions!  A strenuous 4 years of politics! We'll have loads to talk about though...

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## Dave A

You make a good point, Sean. Helen should learn from JZ and leave the childish goading to the youth leagues. As a leader of a sector of government, she needs to demonstrate positive leadership. The days of scoring cheap shots are over for her now.

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Morticia (14-May-09)

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## Dave A

Here is how you do it:



> The African National Congress (ANC) on Wednesday distanced itself from what it called the ANC Youth League's "deeply embarrassing" attack on Democratic Alliance (DA) leader Helen Zille. 
> 
> "The African National Congress distances itself from comments by an ANC Youth League spokesperson yesterday [May 12 2009] about DA leader Helen Zille and her provincial Cabinet," Mantashe said in a statement.
> 
> He said the ruling party strongly objected to Zille's criticism of President Jacob Zuma's sexual conduct that on Tuesday triggered a war of words, but could not tolerate the ANCYL's outburst.
> full story from M&G here


Like taking candy from a baby.

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## garthu

I would never have guessed that i would be impressed with any anc comments - but they did a got job here. As you say 'candy". HZ has a real challenge getting over of this hurdle. She has really blundered with this comment and quite frankly calling out a president in any country like that - surprised there's not some form of treason charge here. She needs to make right and realise that with such comments, she well never be given the chance to prove (or other) good governance. I'm shocked that she cant see that though - thats what gets me

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## Marq

So... should we suggest that she gets the DA Youth in action (DAYL) and let them have a go at JZ and the ANC while she sits back and says we dont like what they are doing and distance ourselves from it? 

Then we get the DA veterans society in action (young folk that have never seen a war just like the ANC's guys or Zimababwes war vets) and let then declare that they will make the country ungovernable, declare war and that they will take out the leader of the opposition. Then HZ can just sit back and say we dont condone what they are doing - or just ignore this scenario as the ANC are doing right now.

Putting up a front like like the ANCYL, COSATU, MK or any other militant behind an acronym does not take away the fact that it is still the ANC. The DA just has one front and its leader is now in trouble for taking on these dirty tricks and cheap shots by JZ and his acronyms who are doing nothing to reel in his troops. 

Its not like taking candy its more like trying to give it out to children with bad intentions. As said before it matters not what she says or does, the ANC are intent on bullying her into submission. If she keeps quiet.....they will have won. Is that what democracy is all about?

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## sgafc

I tend to agree with Copes view, in that there is a difference between vociferous debate, and viciousness and vindictiveness, (from both sides by the way!), we not singling out Zille. As a respected politician, that is far more mature than the league circus, we expected and deserve better.

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Dave A (14-May-09)

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## Dave A

> So... should we suggest that she gets the DA Youth in action (DAYL) and let them have a go at JZ and the ANC while she sits back and says we dont like what they are doing and distance ourselves from it?


Absolutely not! The ANCYL is more than enough source of comic relief at the moment.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Dave A

As if to prove it has to get worse before it gets better:



> Plans to constantly hassle new premier Helen Zille with issues across the province - in a bid to force her to take her eye off the ball - have been hatched by the opposition ANC.
> 
> This has emerged from a leaked report, in the possession of the Cape Argus, agreed to by the party at its post-election provincial lekgotla at the weekend.
> 
> The plan, according to the report, is to put Zille on the defensive constantly, spreading her widely and thinly across the Western Cape to weaken her.
> full story from IOL here


The one upside - it is a tacit form of acknowledgement that the DA and Zille are considered a serious threat by the ANC. So maybe we will see a meaningful competitor to the ANC one day.

But oh dear, this looks set to be a bumpy ride  :Frown:

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## Dave A

A military strategy for a retreating army is to leave nothing of use to the advancing army - a scorched earth policy.



> The former African National Congress-run Western Cape administration approved the transfer of more than 1 000ha of prime provincial housing land to the national government the day before the April 22 elections. 
> 
> "This land, worth about half-a-billion rand, and large enough to accommodate nearly 100 000 houses, was transferred free of charge ... without informing the public or the City of Cape Town," the province's new Premier, Helen Zille, told a media briefing in the city on Friday.
> 
> She said most of the land fell within the Cape Town Metro.
> full story from M&G here


Incredible!

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## Dave A

Now it is the taxi owners' turn to feel the attitude.



> TAXI operators will not halt the implementation of the Bus Rapid Transit system and any violence or intimidation will be crushed, Deputy Minister of Transport Jeremy Cronin said yesterday.
> 
> He told reporters after the bi-weekly Cabinet meeting that the government would not let ânarrow financial interestsâ get in the way of the systemâs implementation.
> 
> Responding to questions about threats to disrupt the official launch of the first phase in Johannesburg on Sunday, he said the government would not be held hostage by taxi operators wanting to âelbowâ their way into benefiting from the project.
> 
> Gauteng Premier Nomvula Mokonyane warned yesterday that the government would use state security agencies, including the army, to counter any violence that might occur from Monday.
> 
> â We will meet those who want to destroy the BRT with possibly greater might,â she said. ââWe must begin to demonstrate that we are the state and able to crush those who would blockade the BRT routes. We canât be held to ransom. Consultation with the taxi industry started four years ago.ââ
> full story from The Times here

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## Dave A

Julius Malema's life is in danger, so he's getting VIP protection. The question - why is the taxpayer footing the bill.

In typical ANCYL style, it's none of our business and anyone asking the question is motivated by racism.

Of course Julius may excercise his democratic right to sprout forth on whatever he wishes whenever he wishes. He can even change his mind on issues and still never say or do anything worthy of questioning or criticism.

Asking that Julius Malema understands the difference between racism and an interest in how our tax money is spent might be too much. But I do hope that Julius will have a better grip on the principles of democracy by the time he becomes our country's president.

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## Dave A

The Constitutional Court has found that the legislation that paved the way to disbanding the Scorpions is unconstitutional.

Well done Hugh Glenister for making the stand.

I'm not sure I'm looking forward to reading the ANC reactions to the judgement over the next day or so, though.

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## Justloadit

According to JM as per the initial post, they must be racist judges then.

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## Dave A

Quite pleased to see this positive response from the Hawks.

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## Butch Hannan

I can think of much stronger words than angry to try and sum up my feelings. The greatest tragedy of this whole scenario is that the poor people are no better off than they were under apartheid. Here are two poems that I wrote in a moment of anger which most probably sum up what is happening:

*THE Gravy Train*

Help me! Help me! To get on the gravy train,
My child it is easy to get on the gravy train,
You must accept what we teach you,
You must think and talk the way we do,
You must always toe the party line,
You must learn to cheat and tell lies,
You must learn to manipulate the situation,
On graduation you will be deployed,
Into a public post with untold opportunity,
To steal and pilfer the public coffers,
There will be tenders to manipulate,
Expense accounts to plunder,
Travelling allowances to inflate,
Entertainment and more entertainment,
My son, you are now in Aladdins cave,
My son, you will be a millionaire.

Butch Hannan

*SERVICE DELIVERY*

	The sewerage is overflowing
	My children play in it
	There is no water in my house
	We bathe in a bucket
	Mr. Council Man why is this so
	Eish!! The pump she is broken.

	I wait hours for pension payout
	I am old sick and hungry
	The queue moves very slowly
	I am told to come back the next day
	Mr. Council Man why is this so
	Eish!! The computer she is too slow

	There are holes in the road
	The street lights do not work
	Storm water comes into my house
	Criminals torment me at night
	Mr. Council Man why is this so
	Eish!! We will investigate

	Mr. Council Man you promised me
	Mr. Council Man I voted for you
	Mr. Council Man why did you lie to me
	Mr. Council Man you do not do your job
	Mr. Council Man why is this so
	Eish!! We will have a meeting

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## flaker

Lets just stop these rantings. there is so much more equality post 93! Look at it this way. Pre 93 & one group prospered whilst the other suffered & now post 93 & BOTH groups suffer :Yes:

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wynn (22-Mar-11)

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