# General Business Category > Technology Forum >  Alarm System vs. Offsite CCTV Monitoring

## Rod

Hello everyone. 

I'm curious as to what you all think about security for your place of business. I was reading up about offsite CCTV surveillance monitoring and thought about the benefits of using this service as opposed to a general alarm system in my office. The benefits of using this service would be that you have live surveillance instead of motion sensors. This could be extremely beneficial considering that criminals are getting more and more creative and clever when it comes to avoiding security systems. 

Or am I just being paranoid?

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## Just Gone

> you have live surveillance instead of motion sensors.


Yes you COULD have live surveillance instead of motion sensors ................... if you were monitoring it 24/7.  If you are checking your monitor/phone every two or 3 hours you could miss an incident, whereas if you do have an alarm or an electric fence which can notify you via your cell phone for example, you would know immediately that you had a break in.  On the down side doing it this way - you now have to either go out to your workplace or send someone, whereas if you did have a monitored alarm, they react ......... well they should react provided you are using a reputable response company.

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## Rod

Well this service comes with the "surveilance" part already. They monitor your CCTV and if something goes wrong, they will respond.  :Smile:

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## murdock

one of my customers had a breakin recently...R100 000 worth of cctv...monitors...massive hard drives also used to prevent theft of equipment and company time...on site security gaurd and armed response...electric fencing...they had a breakin during the night...they arrived in the morning for work...the office had been broken into...all the computer with flat screens were stolen...none of the computer with old screens were taken...the alarm didnt go off...the onsite security gaurd who has a route tag...didnt know anything about it...the hardrives with the footage between 3.25 am and 5.30 am was deleted...and the armed response wasnt called out because they allarm didnt activate.

another incident at a different location...the main office window was smashed and the glass removed...a sheet of cardboard was fitting in place...so when the armed response visited the site they couldnt find anything wrong so they left...the office was cleaned out later that night.

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tec0 (26-Jun-12)

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## Rod

That's pretty hectic! It's amazing how organized breaking and entering is becoming now a days.

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## Rod

I found the updated infographic for this service by Vox. They offer the service I am talking about. Here is the infographic for Offsite CCTV Surveillance

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## tec0

I would recommend a few extras. Having a safe with a single person with access AKA the boss is a good start. Secondly most notebook computers are very powerful so you don’t really need desktop technology anymore. Having a properly installed safe to accommodate the notebooks is expensive but worth it.  

Thirdly never have one company responsible for everything. The people providing the CCTV surveillance must not be the same people responsible for the alarm system and armed response. This will make it more difficult as the criminals have two independent systems to deal with. 

Thirdly you can have a 3rd system that will contact you directly. This system can be wired in on your electric fencing, security doors and so on as mentioned before. Thus you can react and log into your CCTV system have a look and call the responsible people. "Never ever go and see for yourself in person as this can be potentially be dangerous"

Your security system is only as good as the installation and the people responsible. The question is how much are you willing to spend on security?

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## Rod

> Your security system is only as good as the installation and the people responsible.


I totally agree with that. This is a huge problem in this country. There are a lot of cheap installation companies that make massive promises about quality but in the end you find out that they created a CCTV blind spot or something as equally devastating. 

I found a great piece on the offsite monitoring service here

It explains the positives of having experienced people monitoring your CCTV. This can come as a huge benefit when it comes to parking lot hi-jackings, and muggings. They can react accordingly when something like this happens. 

But as you say tec0, it all depends on what you're willing to spend on your security.

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## kingpinbusiness

This CCTV monitoring is a great concept. This will definitely be a plus factor in the war against crime in SA.

Rod that offsite monitoring service has even convinced me that CCTV is the way to go, i am now interested in that Guardian Eye website as it looks like a great was in which i can keep my family, business or my home safe and keep security very tight.

Rod, if you are deciding which to use, in my opinion, you should without doubt, consider the CCTV monitoring.

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## Rod

@Kingpinbusiness thanks for the push. I also strongly believe in this. Where I would pay for a security guard, electric fencing and recording CCTV, I could just as easily pay for the Offsite monitoring service, at the same monthly fee.

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## kingpinbusiness

Exactly, this will be more cost effective and safe.
Response will be a lot quicker which can be vitally important.
Your post has really interested me and i went onto the Guardian Eye site you were considering and it looks to be a very reliable site and i will be furthering my research for my personal use of CCTV surveillance through Guardian eye.
I feel they have a great concept.

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## roryf

I worked on remote monitoring systems in the UK for 5 years.These systems had external detectors connected to the DVR and switched the corresponding CCTV camera into view.Once triggered the system would alert the remote monitoring company via (ADSL or Broadband) and they would be able to view what was happening at the site. If there were trespassers,the remote monitoring company would be able to do an audio challenge remotely via loud speakers that were connected to the system.If needed the remote monitoring company could call the Police/Security company.

These systems were often used together with proper burglar alarms.

There is so much technology out there that you could do almost anything with your systems nowdays.

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## Just Gone

> Thirdly never have one company responsible for everything



I would not agree with this.  In my experience over the last 14 years we have found that it is better to have one company doing your security.  ie one company looking after your motors, electric fencing, cctv and monitoring etc,  reason being - if something goes wrong it is one guy that is responsible - too often installers blame the other guy eg if an alarm triggers - the alarm company blames the electric fencing installer and vica versa.  It happens time and again.  We have been operating for over 14 years and offer the complete package - we are affiliated with a guarding company and an alarm monitoring company therefore we handle everything - the complex or the client does not have to worry about phoning each and every one after they tell him it is not their problem.

It has worked for us over the years and we have plenty of happy customers out there.


Ps.  Obviously this does not work with every installer out there - there are some guys that have only been operating for a short while, therefore cannot handle the complete package - you do have to be aware of this.

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## IanF

Rod and Kingpin I see you guys share an IP address. Are you in the same office?

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tec0 (26-Jun-12)

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## tec0

> Rod and Kingpin I see you guys share an IP address. Are you in the same office?


Thank you!!! I was just about to get paranoid. The conversation seemed to be "to dynamic"  :Smile:  

Then I clicked on page two. and saw your post  :Smile:

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## Rod

He's an intern in the development department in my company, yes  :Smile:  

Sorry I didn't realize we weren't allowed to use the same IP address. I'll ask him to stop. 

It did start getting weird towards the end there. Just went with the flow.

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## wynn

As the new chairman of my local CPF the committee has been motivating the local Municipality to install CCTV in the business districts and crime hotspots in our sector.

I have heard the figure of R30,000.oo per camera (4directions, remote view, long recording period etc.) being bandied about, is this in line with what is out there?

We have said in our motivating letter to the local authority that besides the crime prevention angle they should not look at this as an expense but as a revenue stream as well.

Consider all the traffic violations that will be picked up that usually go unpunished, (70 X R500.oo fines in the first month will pay for the system and anything above the outlay is all cherry on top) obviously this will create a huge revenue stream for the first few months, as the public become aware and behave themselves the revenue will taper off.
Fines for violations such as illegal U-Turns, stopping in no stopping areas, exceeding parking period, speeding, failing to stop at red lights or stop signs, crossing the median etc. they only have to issue 3 fines a day for a month to break even and that is over a 24 hour day (they can even take Saturdays and Sundays off  because they can view the recording on Monday if they want) it is a no brainer.

The comment by one of the detectives on the committee was that when a shop with cctv prosecuted anyone for shoplifting or other crime on their premises, the cctv recording is the clincher in getting a conviction, because no matter how much the perpertrator tries to deny the crime, it is there in full colour and motion for everybody to see, lets see a bag snatcher or someone breaking into a car try wiggle out of that and that is what makes it a necessity not a luxury in fighting crime.

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## Rod

The problem with these kinds of systems that are controlled by the municipality is that government workers get lazy and they also get weekends and holidays off. They might have to review 48 hours of footage on a Monday but I can almost guarantee that they won't review the full 48 hours worth of footage. This leaves gaps in your security.

Another problem is what about crime on the weekends?

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## Dave A

> Sorry I didn't realize we weren't allowed to use the same IP address.


It isn't a problem - as long as they're two different people just using the same gateway  :Smile: 

I think Ian was just checking it wasn't a Batman and Robin routine (and gently serving notice he has the tools if needed  :Wink:  )

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## Poentang

Hi Guys

I might be a bit late in my reply but please, if you are looking to protect your business after hours CCTV is not the answer. 

Have a look at Videofied. it is an intruder detection system with build in cameras. The cameras is for verification of the alarm event. 

Very good system, in fact it is the only system that is being endorsed by the US Marshals in America when it comes to alarms systems.

It also more cost effective and does not need Eskom power to function. This is a very nice feature.

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## Just Gone

> after hours CCTV is not the answer.


Not sure how you can say this !! Most companies want cctv to record goings on all hours of the day - there are many applications for cctv that IS the answer !
Electric fencing is also the answer.  CCTV is a secondary, with a large enough hardrive to record movements.  Videofied only gives you a 10 sec recording ............ If an alarm goes off and alerts a reaction company - they have to react !

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## Poentang

> Not sure how you can say this !! Most companies want cctv to record goings on all hours of the day - there are many applications for cctv that IS the answer !
> Electric fencing is also the answer.  CCTV is a secondary, with a large enough hardrive to record movements.  Videofied only gives you a 10 sec recording ............ If an alarm goes off and alerts a reaction company - they have to react !


I'm not the expert on this but from stats I found that Videofied made more arrests this month than what ADT made in the past 10 years. All because of the 10 seconds verification. All alarm companies sits with the same problem. False alarms, in fact a study was done and 99.9% of all alarm signals in are false. To take that into perspective, let's say a larger company gets 5000 signals a day, they only have to respond to 1. The rest is money down the drain and taking priority response away from the people who needs it.

Electric fence, come on, what a joke. In fact CCTV is a bigger joke. I agree CCTV has its place. If you want to investigate an incidents after it happened you can use it. But what if they stole your DVR or they wear masks. Then CCTV means nothing. It is more important to have a response company get notified with video verification immediately as the crime is happening. Off site CCTV monitoring is not cheap. Video is as effective if not better at a fraction of the costs. 

Let me ask this. If CCTV and electric fence worked in this country, don't you think this would have been the safest country in the world. I gave Videofied a go and you know what it actually works.

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## Just Gone

You work fo videofied poetang?  Because You slate electric fencing and cctv as if you have more experience than just a customer that has installed videofed. I have been installing electruc fencing for over 14 years and have positive proof that it works if installed correctly.

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## Poentang

> You work fo videofied poetang?  Because You slate electric fencing and cctv as if you have more experience than just a customer that has installed videofed. I have been installing electruc fencing for over 14 years and have positive proof that it works if installed correctly.


Like I said CCTV has its place. Especially for people who wants to do surveillance. And then the system is only as good as the R2500 p/m guard you employ to monitor it. But people selling CCTV just to make a quick buck is a disgrace to the industry. 90% of the time it is not the solution someone needs. 

I will not comment on electric fence but I wish you all the best in your business and hope you  make a difference with your security solutions. At the end of the day that is what is needed in this country and not security people trying to make money without thinking of the people's life's that are at stake. 

Don't work for Videofied but have a close friend that does. You should really relook at making this part of your solution to your customers.

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## Just Gone

Wow Poentang - you come onto this forum insulting people. ................. now people are a"disgrace" ................. !!!!!!! just because they install cctv for a "quick buck " ................ and need a security guard. ........... clearly you dont know too much about it and have been brainwashed by your " friend"!!

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## Poentang

> Wow Poentang - you come onto this forum insulting people. ................. now people are a"disgrace" ................. !!!!!!! just because they install cctv for a "quick buck " ................ and need a security guard. ........... clearly you dont know too much about it and have been brainwashed by your " friend"!!


You are right. I know nothing as i am in the IT business. I will leave security to you guys.

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## Just Gone

Great stuff you do that - I mean I have only been in this business for 14 years!

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## Didditmiself

HAS to be an inside job. Just too many things were by-passed; on site security guard, armed response, electric fencing, alarm not going off, on-site sec guard with a route tag knew nothing about it, footage from hard drives deleted. Shouldn't be too difficult to nail the buggers with all those clues....

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## Didditmiself

Kev, I have CCTV, electric fencing, real time monitoring, 2 large dogs, IR beams, 6 X 500W halogen lights which are switched on when I need them, razor spikes, razor fencing, motorised gate, intercom, besides a 9MM Parabellum, insurance and armed response. Others have had break-ins, and various incidents. In the 23 years I have been living in my house, only once some clot tried to get me to open my gate (3 weeks ago he came at 11:45PM frantically saying his wife was in labour and he's from 'across the road' and I must urgently help him) I saw from the camera what he looked like and politely said that I can't help him. Later found out he'd tried 2 other neighbours the next evening. So yes, I totally agree with you, CCTV and electric fencing are the way to go. Poentang, your'e a new member. Welcome buddy. So am I. But if you want to make (and keep) friends on this forum, choose your words carefully in future.

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## Brayn

I think the offsite CCTV Monitoring is cost effective when you compare it with the benefits.And you don't to hire more security staff to control the security devices.But its best for the organization that don't have more budget to spend on their security system.

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## pmbguy

> HAS to be an inside job. Just too many things were by-passed; on site security guard, armed response, electric fencing, alarm not going off, on-site sec guard with a route tag knew nothing about it, footage from hard drives deleted. Shouldn't be too difficult to nail the buggers with all those clues....


I concur. 
Inside jobs 50/50, follow the rabbit hole.........

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