# General Business Category > Scam Alert Forum >  New Approach Marketing

## Marq

I had a call from a business owner in Pietermartizburg running a similar operation to mine.

He has been contacted by a company called 'New Approach Marketing' who have hounded him with many calls in relation to his website and the SEO thereon over the past few days.

The reason that he called me and the reason this is posted here on the scam section is that they have used my website as a reference site. Apparently, the reason my site is so high up on the Google rankings is thanks to them.

Now I am most flattered that they believe this to be great and want to take the credit and steal my thunder, but I do not like being used along these lines. They apparently charge R1400 a month - which is also a scam in itself.

They also state that they are a 'google certified company' - There does not appear to be anything like this out there - does anybody know about this? 
Related to this could be 'google adspend certified' which is just some criteria that google reflect based on adspend in the country that you are operating - easy to obtain and does not mean much. It seems though that you have to do at least $100,000 a month for at least a three month cycle in the country that you operate from. Do you think that any 'company' in south africa could actually achieve this? I don't know the answers as there do not appear to be any out there. Neither is there a list of 'certified' companies or individuals. Strange that a company like google with all its information cannot provide the basic need to know list.  google-adwords-qualified-company-fraud-or-not/.

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## Dave A

Sounds similar to a few calls I've received myself from companies punting an adwords solution for performing in search. I even got one in to do a presentation.

They were guaranteeing 1000 clicks per month at a cost of R1400.00. I whipped out my Adwords research tool and figured I could do that myself for an estimated R250.00.

So what are you going to do about their BS claim that they SEO'd your site?

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## Marq

I don't know that I can do anything. It is hearsay at the moment and they just have to say that they used my site as an example of what they could do for their potential client and he misinterpreted their sales story.

Another sad case of exploiting the unteched sheeple.

Or I could build an anti 'New approach Marketing' site with their own keywords therein, call them up and and let them sell me their click away bs seo scenario  and ...ok flaw in the plan..mmm..I might have to pay for their demise. 
But it may be fun watching them click their way into oblivion. :Slayer:

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Clare (25-Oct-13)

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## daveob

Hey, how about a nice bright red banner across the top of your site, along the lines of :

SCAM ALERT !!!  SEO Claims for this site, by Approach Marketing, are FALSE.


Should get them to leave you alone.

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## daveob

ps ... why not e-mail them and ask for a list of sites that they have done successful SEO for.

At least then if your site is listed, you have something "in writing" to slap them with.

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## Dave A

> Hey, how about a nice bright red banner across the top of your site, along the lines of :
> 
> SCAM ALERT !!!  SEO Claims for this site, by Approach Marketing, are FALSE.


I'm not so sure about this. Now you'd be giving *them* brand exposure and distracting visitors from the real purpose of your website.

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## Jack Dee

> .......They also state that they are a 'google certified company' - There does not appear to be anything like this out there - does anybody know about this?


I have done a bit of digging, as I have heard the term 'Google Certified Company' before - which you say New Approach Marketing are claiming to be.

There actually is such a thing, and info about it can be found here - 
http://imod.co.za/2009/06/22/how-to-...tified-company and here
https://adwords.google.com/professionals/?hl=en_GB

Also, a couple of the people at New Approach Marketing are actually listed on Googles website as being  Google Advertising Professionals. You can check there here - https://adwords.google.com/professio...20963&hl=en_GB

Now I don't like scams etc, but I doubt that these guys would be able to hack into Googles website and list themselves as certified Google professionals.

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## Dave A

Yeah - I did a search on New Approach Marketing. I think there's little doubt that these folk can sell Google ads, unless the reputation is built on the back of the UK business. But did you follow Marq's link in the first post? It's not that simple. 

And it doesn't change the fact that somehow the PMB business owner was left with the wrong impression.

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## tec0

I am reminded of a scam that happened in 1982 where a bunch of people will make you a stockholder in something and provide you with overwhelming evidence that they are who they say they are. 

If I recall correctly they were registered stockbrokers and all the credentials seemed in order. I think the main person behind the scam is still in Texas âUnited Statesâ and his son still in prison. âHis sonâs imprisonment has nothing to do with the scamâ  

See the scam was not the stock or the amount of money you can make. It was all about the benefits you paid for. A guarantee if you will, when it comes to profit. Basically what they would say is âif you take out âinsuranceâ on your stock then we will provide you with âinside informationâ thus you sell your stock and maintain profit while the other investors take the fall. It was a load of BS actually but they got away with it.

My advice is: Be careful.

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## Marq

Had a call last week from these guys offering me their services.

Well spoken fast talking Englishman. Got the Google thing mentioned and off he went on a sales spiel. Basically selling adwords at the end of the day although he made it sound like I was getting a brand new business and web site and anybody not familiar with this stuff would have been lost.

So I asked him for reference sites.......he ignored me and carried on..bla bla
So I asked him about the google certification thing.....he started to explain what seo experts they were but when I asked ....isnt the google thing thing to do with adwords only? ..he started to exit the interview and back out, which was strange given that this was what he was selling. He thought I should think about it and will call back once I had done so.

Thinking back on the call - I have actually no idea what he was really selling. Smooth fast talking salespeople who try and baffle one with BS, tells me that it was not going to be a simple scenario or one that I would have benefited from. His call did not help change my opinion that these guys are operating on the fringe of BS and scam.

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## tec0

I think if you get Google involved in your suspicions things will get sorted. After all they are using Googleâs name then connect whatever it is they are selling with Google. I get the feeling they are using Googleâs as credential and thus people will get fooled. This is a dangerous game they are playing. Here is a sight that I hope will get you started. http//www.google.com/contact/ 

My suggestion is contact them and make them aware of this. After all you had âfirsthandâ experience thus I think you are probably the best person to report them.  :Wink:

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## Jack Dee

> I think if you get Google involved in your suspicions things will get sorted. After all they are using Google’s name then connect whatever it is they are selling with Google.


So what you're saying then is that New Approach Marketing is in fact not a Google certified company?

Interesting. I'm curious then as to how they got their company name and that of two of their operatives listed on Google's own official website. Any suggestions?

I think their main product is Adwords and I know that there are no restrictions on who sells Adwords, but getting listed on Google's website as certified .......

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## Dave A

A very interesting landing page on that Adwords link.

Jack - for the New Approach Marketing SA site, maybe you could use the SA Google search centre rather than the UK one for that custom search. Just an idea...

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## tec0

Jack Dee

Donât put words in my mouth!  :Mad: 




> After all they are using Googleâs name then *connect* whatever it is they are selling with Google.


I am pointing out that they may be *connecting* services that is not completely covered by Google. By getting Google involved *clarity* can be given to the situation. 

You just basically want to twist what I am saying into something bad and I dislike it when people do that.   :Mad:

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## tec0

One more thing Jack Dee. 

If they have nothing to hide then this can be a good thing for them will it not?

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## BrandSmit

I can't seem to find mention of any sites they worked with on their site. Maybe I didn't look long enough, or maybe they've taken it down. Anyway, if they've chosen this business for their scam, does that mean people actually fall for this crap? Their site does not inspire confidence - for one, I spotted a few cases of bad English. I reckon they'll fizzle away soon enough. Someone referred to people on Google's Advertising Professionals list working for this outfit. It's of course easy enough to extract some names from an official list at Google and slap them on your staff list, and hope by the time you're called on it, you've made your illicit profits and moved on.

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## Andrew Dryden

I'm the Managing Director for New Approach and have been reading the comments posted with much amusement.

We are very compliant strong and run a very strict call centre. All calls are recorded, so find it very difficult to believe that we would indicate the success of an unknown website as "Our Success". It seems on certain posts, to make news more interesting, you add comments, thus making users more excited, so more posts arrive with additional "news worthy" comments.

Before clients are accepted, for compliance, they are subject to a verbal confirmation, in which all process, contact details, payments are discussed, to ensure customers know exactly what they are entering into, if they are NOT happy, they can terminate the phone call (For the excitable "news worthy" ones, I cant make it any more fool proof or compliant)

As a technical driven company, who has enjoyed massive success in the UK, we are diluting are experience into SA and clients have been enjoying real time service, because each customer, has there own dedicated account manager, to answer any queries within twenty minutes. Also there is an email address for myself on the website, since Iâm a very "hands on" director, to ensure the client receives director involvement. (Once again where is the scam)

The Google qualification is current and we have sat exams to receive the qualification and since we run most campaigns from the UK, this works extremely well and the 25,000 customers based in eight different countries seem very happy with the level of service and the exposure that we provide with either managed PPC or SEO.

I have just returned from Cape Town, i think you have a beautiful country, i enjoyed great service in all the restaurants, hotels and was so impressed at your levels of service. If anything Iâm trying to raise the bar, to ensure my SA customers have the service, they have become accustomed to.

Thanks for you time and finally, this is a professional company, you will automatically beg to differ and i completely understand, that everyone has there point of view and now you have mine.

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Dave A (17-Sep-09)

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## tec0

I am actually impressed that you took the time to set things right. However, I don’t feel it is wrong to do background checks on any service before you inter into an agreement. Being an International company I am sure you can understand that there are many dangers for the consumer thus caution is sound advice. 

Checking on affiliated groups and associates is a norm for most companies, business and individuals. I found that most ventures allow you to have access to a company profile. Also a simple questions and answers page may aid the customers in question.

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## Dave A

I'll second Tec0. Taking a moment to add your thoughts is appreciated, Andrew. And helps add perspective.

Talking of perspective, I'm interested in this one of yours:



> It seems on certain posts, to make news more interesting, you add comments, thus making users more excited, so more posts arrive with additional "news worthy" comments.


OK. I've reread the whole thread. Where does this observation come from?

For a forum site, I've always believed if anything our members tend to be quite restrained and analytical.

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tec0 (19-Sep-09)

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## Chatmaster

> I'm the Managing Director for New Approach and have been reading the comments posted with much amusement.


No amusement here Andrew.

I have been reading this thread and re-reading it. The reply that Andrew has made is just a typical damage control swinging it into a sales pitch post.

Marq, stated that they used his website as a reference, all we got was a denial. This in my book is not enough. I have seen to many of these artists selling people the services of PPC management and SEO and are very cautious about New Approach Marketing.

What makes me more sceptical is this specific part of your your post Andrew.




> It seems on certain posts, to make news more interesting, you add comments, thus making users more excited, so more posts arrive with additional "news worthy" comments


Any SEO will tell you that you clearly haven't been around forums much, this thread is a typical forum style thread nothing funny or adding of new comments here, just a typical forum discussing a possible scam.

In my years in SEO I have also never come across an SEO company that I have never heard of before, having 25,000 clients. Unless you provide me with physical proof that you employ at least a 1000 to 5000 SEO's as that is the only way that you can accommodate that number of sites with quality SEO or PPC management, not to mention customer service, I seriously doubt that you are being truthful with us. Mmmmmm unless you personally have successfully ripped off 25,000 people in your lifetime.... anyway that is my assumption as your domain was only registered in March 2008.

Andy IMHO I think you are not completely honest with us. 

What made me read your post with much amusement was when I remember coming across your name on the Internet a couple of times. I remember because this is not the only place where you have received a bit of bad publicity. Especially the funny part of the Sour service reward you got from Whalecottage.com I almost fell of my chair when I heard what they where told by you. Let me just refresh your memory...




> The Sour Service Award goes to *Google and its representative in South Africa*, New Approach Marketing


Link

What makes me really upset is the that fact that you do not distinguish between PPC management and SEO on your website. In a country like South Africa this is highly unethical, people do not know the difference. SEO is a term coined specifically for natural search rankings. Although I know that you can guarantee 48 hours delivery on PPC most people will think that it is for SEO not PPC as you conveniently describe it so on your website.

For people that are serious about their SEO I would seriously recommend Quirk and Shake for their SEO needs. These guys really know what they are doing and are truly large SEO companies with good quality service. At this stage I am highly sceptical about New Approach Marketing.

If you want an easy fix, visit axandra.com and purchase IBP, at least it offers some value for SEO, although you will have to do much harder work to rank competitively.

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flaker (07-Aug-10), tec0 (25-Sep-09), twinscythe12332 (25-Sep-09)

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## Spencer

A few years ago I worked for Shopzilla (a shopping search engine) in the UK, the trouble with what these people are doing is that it isn't actually illegal, merely Black Hat SEO. There premise of the whole thing is just that they don't get caught, that is why they cut the calls and start prevaricating when questioned too closely. It's actually a lot more common than people realise. Hey there are even books you can buy on Black Hat SEO

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## tec0

Taking all the facts into consideration there is most definitely a need for investigation. I still think if you get Google involved they will be able to give clarity to the situation at hand. I advice caution...   :Confused:

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## Andrew Dryden

The sales department only sell PPC, they are NOT offering SEO, its all smaller business, they are informed exactly where they are appearing on Google and this is explained once again on confirmation, for compliance so the customer knows exactly whatâs involved, how to cancel etc they can terminate the phone call at anytime, but we only want happy customers 

After the customer has been marketing on page one of Google and realised this method of marketing works, we will then introduce SEO so they can increase their presence on page one and start to reduce the PPC campaign thus saving them money.

The SEO call is made from the technical department, so IS NOT made by a sales person and neither do we cold call to sell SEO, it's all up sold to existing customers, who are happy with the company and service already, so they want to continue marketing on Google and finally all SEO is white hat.

We are a professional company selling PPC, then once the customer is established selling SEO, we are not mis-leading anyone and with strict procedures and voice recording, I know that any mis-selling would be stamped out.

I have just returned from America since I live and breathe Google, looking at new and different methods for the SEO customers to ensure they keep appearing on page one.

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## Marq

Just had another call (yes about three this month) from some idiot representing New Approach. Comes in on this uk number - tells me he is from CT and here to save my business. Special this month usual R4000 a month story now only R1400 per month - same number as a few months ago now grew to a big number before being 'discounted' to a still ridiculous number. 

So he tells me I can have 5 words/phrases. Any words.

Now as far as I know there is a charge per word which can vary depending on the word and budget and limits have to be set for the account and it can get very expensive if you have a lot of clicks. If you dont have any clicks then it costs you nothing. None of this is explained.

How would this fit into a fixed monthly fee structure? Do they set a 'budget' of say R500 and when that is reached you are off the system until the next month? What would an average be that one should spend on adwords marketing assuming you organised this yourself?

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## IanF

Marq
I spend r200 a month with adwords, set it up yourself. Don't let google choose the amount per click. I went in low per click. I see they suggest something like R17 per click for keywords like business cards to show on the first page of search results. 
My thinking is R17 then 1 in 5 ask for a quote and 1 in 4 actually buy. So for 17x5x4 you make a sale for R260 and ad costs are R340. 
So I stay away from chasing the first page impressions and rather see what business you pick up.
I have noticed that people are lazy so at least 3 times a week I get a call asking for prices on normal mousepads (rubber backed). We make a paper pad which is glued 2 sides as a mousepad and say "Our mousepads are NOT rubber or foam backed mousepads" This is the first line but still we get asked for them :Drunk: . What I am saying is some people waste the click through as they do not read.
So if your manage it you can do well.

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Marq (29-Oct-09)

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## Dave A

Let's put it this way - R1400.00 can get you a lot of exposure if you are doing all the right things. Marq, you'd probably need a chain of guesthouses...

However, done wrong you could blow R1400.00 and have very little to show for it.

What is a bit of a grind is you really need to set up an optimised landing page for each ad as the value of the bid is based on your bid *and* a quality score for the landing page - at least initially. After a day or so it's the value of your bid times the CTR.

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Marq (29-Oct-09)

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## tec0

From the look of things I would just use other methods to get the word out. Pay per Click is one-thing and I myself are looking at alternatives... Really I can see why Google is so successful but again you are losing money âbecause you have a webpageâ that is just stupid... A big shiny banner on a popular road can do more for me than a webpage and yes it is expensive but it is basically once off.   :Bananadance:

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## Marq

> some people waste the click through as they do not rea


Is there also a chance that your opposition could sit clicking away on your ad all day long and ring up a big score for you?

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## IanF

> Is there also a chance that your opposition could sit clicking away on your ad all day long and ring up a big score for you?


Yes they could, there is an option to have a daily limit which I have otherwise you blow your budget in one day. Plus you can limit the area in which your ads show and the times it shows. So I just show for about 14 hours a day during the week. The options are actually good, they also analyse your website and suggest keywords.

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Marq (29-Oct-09)

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## Dave A

We now have a new player ploughing this field - Chrome Marketing. He actually said he's from "Google Chrome Marketing" during the course of the discussion and upon trying to establish the exact relationship - they're "contracted with Google."

If I hadn't asked the right questions, I would have been none the wiser that this was not, indeed, the big G.

Now the genius is twofold - 
Chrome is associated with Google nowadays as a result of their browser, so the Google and Chrome connection already exisits in the minds of many and they are less likely to start asking awkward questions.If you were trying to research this operation, a search on any combination of the keywords is going to have the results drowned out by discussion on Google's Chrome browser.
I know second hand car salesmen have a bad reputation, but I'm starting to suspect there are worse creatures in this world. This is starting to fall into the category of timeshare and expensive vacuum cleaner pedlars.

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Just for the records - America's Most Wanted has a list of all the scammers out there. You can find them at http://www.amw.com

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## Unison

Hi There,

I've been contacted by Lime Media Marketing and they are offering the same scam, watch out!

http://www.limemedia.co.za/
http://www.limemedia-marketing.com

They call their fixed price PPC "Instant Google" and say that since they have so many Google Certified employees, they get this "special deal" with Google where they pay less for clicks. This is clearly a scam since "Instant Google" just doesn't exist.

They claim to be working from Cape Town (Mowbray) but they all have Manc Brit accents and I quickly cought them out with a few general knowledge Cape Town questions. They're clearly calling from a crammed call centre in Manchester and they are all dodgy as FCUK. I must say they have done their homework and are trying really hard on this Scam, they know all the main CT tourist sites and are clued up about the weather etc. 

Do NOT be fooled though, they are NOT in SA and do not be scammed into paying over ANY money as you WILL be burned!!!!!!!

A quick Whois confirms that this is the same guys as "New Approach Marketing": http://co.za/cgi-bin/whois.sh?Domain=limemedia

Details: Andrew Dryden
registrantemail: technical@newapproachmarketing.com

They have tried this scam throughout Europe and Aus and are now targeting S.A. Please spread the word as I would love to see them fail. Let's all pitch in and snuff out Lime Media asap.

A few similar forum posts:

http://www.ronanobrien.info/selling-...n-google-scam/
http://www.google.com/support/forum/...732478f2&hl=en
http://www.laneconsultancy.com/main/...ee-yeah-right/
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/fo...ad.php?t=85472
http://www.michaelwall.co.uk/sem/google-adwords-ripoff/

Surely we should be able to get Google to ban them?

Best Rgds,

Unison

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## AlexandraKate

I came across this forum whilst googling New Approach Marketing and would like to thank some of the contributors to this thread.  I have only a vague understanding of google marketing and your comments have been helpful. My business partner agreed to a trial month period with New Approach last year - after weeks of phonecalls from them.  As I have read here - very fast talking poms offerring something that does not really exist and my partner decided that it was worth throwing R1400.00 on and see what they actually produced. Obviously it was a complete waste of time and money and when they phoned after a month we told them we were not interested.  5 months later I get a call from them saying that we owe them 5 months of payments and they will be issuing a final demand - we had heard nothing from them during this period or received any invoices.  Once again very fast talking pom who promises to send you a recording of the phonecall where you agreed to this ongoing contract.  He was extremely aggressive on the phone.

This resulted in my searching for info on the company both here and on UK sites and I was totally overwhelmed by just how many people had been scammed by them.  I also subsequently checked their original invoice and noticed that we had been charged VAT - but there is no VAT number on their invoice.  Also their company registration number did not look like a SA registration number and the physical address they list "1 Sandton Drive, Sandton" does not exist.

I raised these queries by email and ws immediately contacted by Andrew Dryden himself.  He had some long story about waiting for a VAT number, being busy with a registration number and moving offices to Cape Town.  I mentioned some of the information I had found on him and his company and lo and behold - EXPLOSION from him.  Very abusive and told me he will show me just how good his company is by putting someone full time onto the job of blacklisting my business etc etc....  These guys are a bad crowd and whilst obviously we were stupid getting involved with them in the first place - I think many others will fall victim to them.  My question to you more experienced guys on this forum is - Is there any way to stop them?  Would appreciate your opinion/thoughts.

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## murdock

> Just for the records - America's Most Wanted has a list of all the scammers out there. You can find them at http://www.amw.com


funny how i dont see this persons name there  :Big Grin:

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## andy_dryden

We don't really receive that many complaints, so that's why the above post is from Boskuin Mica Hardware based in Craighill, posted by Valarie and Tim Walker.

Letâs look at this "SCAM"

You can only become a customer, once you have completed a recorded contract, this compliance measure ensures that any mis-selling by sales staff is flagged immediately, if the client does not agree with the terms, conditions and processes, they can terminate the phone call, itâs that simple, the customer has control.

The customer is informed that the confirmation is been recorded for training and legal reasons and states the date and time. They are then informed they are entering into an agreement with "New Approach" we really canât make it any simpler, most clients feel that all confusion is eliminated.

We then state how munch the service is costing? How to cancel? How to communicate? Provide all contact details? Inform about the customer services area of the web site? Importantly they are reminded on the recording âthe contract is month by month and must be cancelled via email or shall continue until either party gives to the other a months notice, do you understand!â

The recording only lasts four minutes and recorded contracts are used by most blue chip companies, even the money exchanges record the exchange rate and amount exchanged stating the date and time, all standard business practice.

Finally they are informed if they require a stats report, change of keyword or invoice, to use the customer services area as we work much quicker from emails; this is purely because of the telephone calls taking too long. 

After the confirmation has been completed we then upload all details to the encrypted campaign software, which is completely secure and holds all details securely. 

A welcome letter is sent explaining the above and when the client is launched, a launch email is sent, so after 48 hours theyâve received two communications with all our contact details attached and finally a comfort call, recorded, to ensure the customer is happy with everything and can see their advert.

If we were running a "scam" then the sales person would process the payment, there would be no compliance measures, we would probably try and mislead the customer on price and provide NO contact details, called the missing trader, then process a larger payment and disappear. 

I personally called âBoskuin Mica Hardwareâ to be greeted with a very angry lady called Valarie, who had listened to the recording and stated âit was not them on the recordingâ. If we feel the customer is genuine, we will, as a gesture of goodwill, wipe the debt, we are human and wanting to build a successful business in S.A. but if somebody is acting unprofessional and been abusive, then you draw the line. 

Valerie stated that she would blog everywhere, telling everyone about the scam and âdid I understand the consequences of thatâ in which I replied âwe are an internet marketing company and completely understand forums because I could post about youâ

If you would like a recording of Valerieâs contract, to see exactly what Valarie entered into or would like to speak in person with myself, then just email directors@newapproachmarketing.co.za and I will communicate in your preferred method, I will even supply the recording of the final abusive call with Valarie as evidence.

We are an established business in Cape Town, we HAD an address in Joâburg but decided to consolidate in Cape Town. We have a local bank account with Standard Bank to accept EFT payments and a (PTY) Limited company; you should all know you cannot open a local bank account, with Standard Bank, without having an established SA limited company with appointed Chartered Accountants and finally SA resident as director.

I presently have family in Constantia, Hermanus and Stellenbosch. Iâve commented on previous posts that I love Cape Town and enjoy the fantastic standards of service. Iâm writing this in the UK, but arriving back in Cape Town on the 24th March, staying in Camps Bay, so if anybody would like to meet or join the office for a drink âon usâ then please send an email, seriously we are not trying to make enemies and if anyone is upset or disappointed with the service, I will meet, if your near Cape Town or talk in person on the phone.

The forums are full of people guessing we do, instead of just simply asking us âblack hatâ or âwhite hatâ and unfortunately like any forum, itâs full of the competition, hiding behind ânicknamesâ posting negative comments, even non customers trying to make news by posting negative feed.

For the genuine disgruntled customer, I understand that no business has 100% happy customers and it they state they do, itâs a lie. If you do have an issue with the service, then please email and I will call you in person. I work twelve hours per day to make sure nearly all customers are happy and every customer is important to us, so please drop me a line and I will assist.

Finally, we have certain customers who just âdonât want to payâ they enjoy exposure on page one of Google, then just donât pay. If you had a business and people used your service and then decided not to pay, how you would feel? In any argument, there are always two sides and thatâs why I want to understand the other side.

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## andy_dryden

It was myself who you spoke to on the phone, you asked how many statues are in the waterfront, i replied four, because i can remember four, in which you replied five, still think there are four, but there in three weeks and will take a camera, but the wine is strong in my defence.

You have not used our service, received a phone call from a new member of staff and decided because he had only been in Cape Town for three days and not even been "out and about" that this was a scam, then armed with no evidence, decided to post on this forum "Scam Alert"

When on the phone, you asked which jurisdiction I was in, not knowing the answer (still donât know what a jurisdiction is) you said "that confirms this is a scam"

We are a PTY limited company, with Cape Town based Chartered Accountants, with a local bank account, real English people who will be training S.A. citizens to sell, so in the future you will be called by S.A. sounding staff, but within the Manchester call centre we have ten S.A. members of staff.

I was in London during the week and booked a hotel room for the night, over the phone. The receptionist was from S.A., I never once asked her how many statues were in Trafalgar Square or asked her to look out of the window and describe the weather, finally neither did I accuse her of running a scam hotel, just booked my room and thanked her professionally.

Andrew Dryden

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## andy_dryden

Sorry you confirmed it was a SCAM when i did not know the "Townships".

Finally, i would never dream of discrediting you behind some nickname and assume that Unison Productions is a "scam alert" because of some geographical question unaswered as evidence.

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## Unison

Listen Andy, How thick do you think we are down here in SA?!

Firstly, I spoke to "Scott" (if that was his real name) who then put me on to his "supervisor" "George". Now it turns out YOU were "George". Ha! 

When I asked you to transfer me onto ONE South African in your "Cape Town Office" you couldn't, not even a cleaning lady, Why? Cause you're freezing your ass off somewhere in Manchester. I see you took my advice! You are now recruiting South Africans to do you dirty selling for you.

But C'mon, don't try and tiptoe around the real issue with your little charade, it doesn't matter where you are, you could be phoning from Venus and call yourself Zorhan - you are ripping people off by promising them one thing and delivering another. Fixed fee google adwords don't exist - you Geo Target your poor victims' (customers') ads so that they will only ever be seen by 3 people, so the campaigns are a waste of money since no one sees them!

To everyone reading this, check out the links on my previous post - Fixed fee Adwords is a Scam and many people have been ripped off by this around the Globe. 

Zorhan, go back to Venus - you're not welcome here  :Mad:

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## tec0

Well, I am so very happy that you actually do reply but I think you must address the problems these people have. After all, IF *<<< Please note the IF)* you are who you say you are where is the list of thousands of happy customers? Can I find it on your web? What about a nice Q and A section to explain some of the more technical aspects?

*YES <<< Please note the YES)* you have done much to explain some of the questions but there is still a lot that remains a mystery âjust go over all the posts and I am sure you will spot themâ

Also: 


> We then state how munch the service is costing? How to cancel? How to communicate? Provide all contact details? Inform about the customer services area of the web site? Importantly they are reminded on the recording âthe contract is month by month and must be cancelled via email or shall continue until either party gives to the other a months notice, do you understand!â


What assurance do the people have that there e-mails would be honoured?

Then: 


> If we were running a "scam" then the sales person would process the payment, there would be no compliance measures, we would probably try and mislead the customer on price and provide NO contact details, called the missing trader, then process a larger payment and disappear.


I recommend you get educated on the type of SCAMS that is running in SA. There is a lot of them operating like a real business so perhaps that list that was mentioned can come in handy again. There is No harm in doing your homework now is there...

Lastly: 


> We are an established business in Cape Town, we HAD an address in Joâburg but decided to consolidate in Cape Town. We have a local bank account with Standard Bank to accept EFT payments and a (PTY) Limited company; you should all know you cannot open a local bank account, with Standard Bank, without having an established SA limited company with appointed Chartered Accountants and finally SA resident as director.


That is not entirely true it comes down on the type of account that you opened. And getting a business registered is not easy but it is not difficult... 

you have 25,000 clients and NO list *<<<< just a thought)*  :Huh:

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## Unison

Hey Andy / George / Zorhan / Lime Media / New Approach

It looks like you're running your worldwide scam from this address: 3 Northwold House, Dorset Road, Altrincham, Post Code WA14 4QN (Trafford, Manchester). I bet you can't see the mountain from there!

Here are a few more people that have been scammed by you guys in the last couple of weeks:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/compl...g-c272585.html
http://www.ronanobrien.info/selling-...n-google-scam/

Bye bye now

Good Riddance

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## daveob

Here's a link to the criteria for becoming an Adwords Qualified Individual.

https://adwords.google.com/support/s...12241&hl=en_US

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## Dave A

> Listen Andy, How thick do you think we are down here in SA?!


Funny you should mention that. I think one of the problems here is the naivety of South Africans.

When we get "overcharged"* we call it a scam. In other parts of the world it's merely sharp practice or hard selling and the consumer knows it's the buyer who is the fool.

In SA we expect only politicians to spin together a sequence of words to create a misleading impression. In other parts of the world the consumer is well aware that this is done all the time and *knows* to look past the spin to figure out the real deal here.

We tend to take people at their word - and we're also far too polite.



> if the client does not agree with the terms, conditions and processes, they can terminate the phone call, it’s that simple, the customer has control.


In the UK if someone isn't interested they'll not only terminate the call, they'll tell you to "go away", normally using a two word phrase beginning and ending with *F* before doing so. In South Africa we tend to feel obliged to tell the person *why* we're not buying and politely let them down, which when swimming in shark infested waters is simply opening the door to even more persuasive negotiation and manipulation.

Oh how I used to spin my wheels until I learnt the most important word in the business dictionary to master is *NO!*

Ultimately South Africans need to stop playing victim, get off their lazy asses, switch on their BS detectors and start thinking a bit before they swallow stuff hook, line and sinker.

*Exactly when a person can rightly feel "overcharged" is probably a whole discussion on it's own. In this specific case, Andy is providing a service by providing a product which has an input cost and he's entitled to make a profit. The fact that you could do it cheaper by other means is near irrelevant. If you don't have the Adwords skills and Andy's program does produce a profitable return in sales for you, surely he's added value.

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tec0 (04-Mar-10)

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## lila

Andy Dryden and George both live and work in the UK. They have spent in total a few weeks in South Africa setting up a call centre. They used a local contact to register their business, bank accounts etc and this person is not an employee or director of New Approach.  From what I gather their business model operates on the basis of speed, they select a naive (in terms of internet) country, swoop in and make a killing (they have a trained, pitbull like selling team, the likes we've never experienced in SA). My question is this, is there anything wrong with this setup? It's obviously questionable ethically, but is there anything criminal at play?

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## lila

I need to make an ammendment to my last post - New Approach/Lime Media have not set up a call centre in SA, they haven't set up anything here, but a virtual office which redirects calls to manchester.

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## murdock

i visited their site today to see what all the fuss is about...

i noticed there is no office address...but why would they need an office in south africa if you can do everything online...much like my bussiness...i work on site so why do i need a physical address listed...so i dont have my physical address on any of my letterheads...invoices etc...only a postal address...my vehicle is my office.

i personally wouldnt use their services because i am still old fashion and need to see the person i am dealing with in person...i dont buy stuff on interenet either...i  like to go to the shop look at what i want then decide whether or not to take it...i know of lots of people who buy stuff through the interent and havent had any issues...and of course there are the ones who have had issues...but people have issues with stuff you buy in a shop nowadays...

what i still dont get about buying on the interent is why the stuff is not cheaper than in the shops...when you sell a product via the interent you dont have all the overheads of having a shop...floor staff...theft etc...and dont tell me you need a warehouse to store...the cost in comaprison is a fraction...and most people i know who sell via the internet dont keep stock they get the stuff delivered directly from the supplier...

what i would suggest they do is put a list of happy customers on their website...so a person can check...considering they advertise that they have quote "1000s of happy customers"

i personally think it is brilliant what these people are doing and so long as they are legit...i believe old fashion people like myself need to get up to speed with internet sales...marketing etc and move forward...employ younger people to keep up with technology...


i have only read this thread once and what i am trying to understand is...are people worried this company gona do what the other smuck did take your moneyand run...are they not delivering on what they promise or are people just worried about the concept?

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## murdock

another thing i would suggest is they have copies of their certification document list and a copy of the company register proving they have been operating for 10 years...and a list of happy and unhappy customers...anyone looked on hello peter for this company...it is difficult to check up on this company because when you type  in new approuch marketing...clever name...when you type in new approuch marketing...it comes up with hello peters new approuch to marketing...clever...when you do a search for them use "new approuch finance ltd" their  postal address comes up on the home page etc...and you are instructed to email due to the  volumes of enquiries to thier technical division...no pictures of the directors or any details about them...warning bells.

this is like in the movies where they track the people down to an address and all they find is an empty office 

the only way i would deal with these people is by me paying an eft every month...no debt orders etc and a month to month deal...if ther eis no result i right off the money wasted as another bad experience...other wise they could debt your account and run and you wouldnt know where to start looking for your money

QUOTE

"New Approach Marketing is a division of New Approach Finance Ltd

We have been established for over 10 years.


We have a fully "google certified" technical department and knowledgeable sales staff on all of our products.



We have a solid reputation built around exceeding client expectations on all aspects of their internet marketing campaign, whether you have a small basic website or like most of our clients, have a combination of our 3 core products.



We use only ethical white hat SEO techniques to ensure you have the greatest presence possible and we only produce websites we would be happy to own ourselves!!



With 1000's of satisfied clients - choose New Approach to manage your online and digital presence.



Using our proven techniques, we strive to maximise your businesses potential on the Internet

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## murdock

there are complaints about new approuch marketing...only 3.

anyone had any success using this comapany?

http://www.hellopeter.com/NEW+APPROA...d-compliments/

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## lila

But why do they lie about living and working in cape town? Andy Dryden claims to be living here, but he's only spent 2 weeks in this country. Everything I've read on the internet about their company paints them as unscrupulous, unethical salesmen with only one motive - to make the sale no matter what lie you have to tell. But that aside, why the extra lie?

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## AlexandraKate

Hi Lila,  The only thing I think New Approach Marketing can currently be nailed for is charging VAT to their clients when they are not VAT registered.  You can send a copy of your invoice and the banking details you paid the money into to the SARS VAT Fraud Department.  I don't think anything will be done at the moment as the company is for all intents and purposes untraceable.  The address they are using on invoices in Gauteng is 1 Sandton Drive, Sandton (not their address) and the company registration number they list is not a South African company registration number.  If SARS chose to pursue anything they may be able to go after the person whose name the bank account was regsitered to which would be better than nothing.  Reporting them to SARS may also hinder them if they ever try to set up a legitimate business in South Africa which is doubtful.  

The new consumer protection act would also offer some form of recourse to their "victims" as they are contravening some of sections of the act - false registration number, false address, etc. etc. etc. - the problem remains that these guys are untraceable and not in the country so all of this is of limited value.  

If you've been scammed by them - hope they didn't take too much money off you and I would suggest you use it as a learning curve for yourself and inform others where possible.  There are several consumer watchdog websites, newspaper columns and of course the Carte Blanch Consumer show which will all assist in bringing this kind of scam into the public arena and warning off us naive South Africans.

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## AlexandraKate

There are far more than 3 bad reports on these guys.  Think you could probably add a couple of zero's and still be underestimating.

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## garthu

Yup , a stack more than 3... personally based on the complaints i would certainly choose not to do business with them. Charging 44 pounds for a google map listing that takes 5 minutes... wow profiteering???

Maybe a bit of jelousy mixed in there for me... i wannna make 44 pounds for 5 minutes work..  :Cool:

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## Andrew Dryden

We are an established (PTY) Limited company in South Africa and just preparing the VAT return to SARS, because there has been a delay in processing the application. We believe that delays are normal but more importantly we are within time to register and once completed, (just in the final stages now), all monies will be paid in full and all invoices submitted to customers, with our VAT number attached.

Furthermore i'm registered for income tax in SA and the accountants prepare all paperwork for SARS each year, so not only the company who is registered. 

We have Chartered Accountants and Attorneys based in Cape Town centre, we are with Standard Bank in Constantia and have a book-keeper in Fish Hoek, who now deals with the day to day accounting.

The addresses we use are virtual offices based in Cape Town and Regus offer this facility, so lots of companies around the world, can have a presence in different countries, offering customers a better service, the world is a very small place.

I've stated before that ALL calls are recorded and you can only become a customer once you've completed a recorded confirmation. The client can terminate if they are unhappy with any process or procedure, thus ending the relationship. This is then repeated in a welcome letter and the customer is able to communicate via the customer services section, simple.

There is NO contract, you just cancel via email, 3 days in the first month and 30 days thereafter, just so simple. To make the client stay for the second month, we need to have done something, that's why we dont try and  contract customers.

On the website the address provided are in Cape Town and the directors@ email address is automatically sent to my blackberry so i can deal with problems personally, this method is used and enjoyed by customers.

If a customer has not used and does not understand Google, then we can provide 5 keyphrases to best describe their business, to appear on the first page, great introduction to internet marketing. Once clients see a level of business, then they start to look at SEO, to increase their awarness.

We are not a "Scam" and we have several non customers blogging about us. We have one blogger, who has never been a customer and is responsible for 90% of the total blogs, pretending to be customers, he even sent an email stating, he now has a network of bloggers in SA, very sad.

As above we are based and registered in SA, so your comment "I don't think anything will be done at the moment as the company is for all intents and purposes untraceable" completely created in your own mind to excite the crowd.

Furthermore "company registration number they list is not a South African company registration number" once again is your imagination running wild, we have accountants with a local bank account, even you should know, that you have very strict rules when opening bank accountants.

Most clients will email, when they have a technical issues and not blog, so if you're a customer, with real issues, then use the directors@ email address and i will personally sort any problem or issue. No company has 100% happy customers, but we are trying and with the amount of customers we currently have succeeding.

Finally, when in Ct still enjoying the wonderful service and your beautiful country, WOW, you're very lucky, its probably one of the best countries i've had the pleasure to visit and just want to work hard to ensure we match your high standards of service.

Thanks for reading

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## flaker

Andrew "never say die" Dryden, 10 out of 10 for your tenacity. :Applaud:

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## tec0

Well scam or not you have a lot of tricks? First let us look at your âphone recording processâ

Note: 




> Andrew Dryden
> I've stated before that ALL calls are recorded and you can only become a customer once you've completed a recorded confirmation.


aslo Note: 




> andy_dryden
> 
> The customer is informed that the confirmation is been recorded for training and legal reasons and states the date and time. They are then informed they are entering into an agreement with "New Approach" we really canât make it any simpler, most clients feel that all confusion is eliminated.


They are then informed they are entering into an agreement with "New Approach"

So if someone phoned you he/she become an automatic client? Just remember these are your words not mine. Now If I was just phoning you to get some information and end up agreeing to be a client regardless I would also scream scam, and for good reason.

Still no Q and A section on your web???

Here is the thing, you say you want to keep people happy but there is no referral ârecommendationâ list no real info.

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## Dave A

> So if someone phoned you he/she become an automatic client? Just remember these are your words not mine. Now If I was just phoning you to get some information and end up agreeing to be a client regardless I would also scream scam, and for good reason.


Tec0, you stretch a point as well as Andy's sales folk.  :Wink: 

I can confirm this isn't the case. I've been called a few times by New Approach and Lime Media and there's never been a hint of an automatic contract being formed. If you're entering a contract you'll know.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I *did* feel very much the same way as I do when sitting through a timeshare hard-sell presentation or a Kirby demo and pitch. It is a *very* pushy sell, but that's not illegal as long as cool-off cancellations are respected.

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## tec0

Well it was an honest mistake; I thought that the recording or person informs you that you are entering into an agreement....  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Stick Out Tongue: 

The truth is they are not the only company doing this type of marketing.  My personal opinion is that one must never enter into an agreement over the phone. Facts can be misunderstood and conditions may not be as clear.  :Confused: 

Still I think a nice explanatory Q and A page will help a lot.

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## Andrew Dryden

I appreciate your constructive comments.

On the recorded confirmation, we request the customer reads the welcome information, because it has lots of information that could erase unnecessary technical issues and shown the customer services area.

The welcome letter contains, lots of FAQ's to assist the customer in understanding the product and service better, informs them of all procedures and processes, so there is no confusion.

The client then receives a launch email from the technical department and the FAQ's are once again repeated in this communication.

As before if they want to cancel, they email from customer services and we reply to say its been processed, it's that simple, there is no scam here just sales staff you do believe in the product, so are passionate.

We now have many clients in SA, who never used Google before our call and now run their business model from on line marketing, so has really worked and now reap the benefits.

The sales pitch can be boring, if your not interested in using the product or exploring new routes to revenue for your business, (I could never listen to a hoover pitch)

I'm very "hands on" and constantly looking to better myself and the company so we will take accept any constructive comments.

We have a new company operating www.vpresenters.com which is taking on 40 customers per week, placing an actor onto a web site to explain about your product or service, people would rather listen then read and is been really well received.

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## tec0

Andrew Dryden.

Again I would recommend a Q and A on the website for the people that visit it. That being said, have you ever thought of a “Proof of concept” system. It will allow the customer to see the benefits first hand and then if they are happy with it they will most probably sign on. 

It also give assurance that the “product” is doing its job. 

Also with "40 customers per week" on your new product, wouldn’t you agree that a list with some of these happy customers will add some confidence in your products? 

After all it is only good marketing if people can get positive feedback.

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## Andrew Dryden

We have been selling into the SA market place for around 12 months.

We realised very quickly that SA customers were been completely over charged, we still find customers paying R3000 per annum for just hosting fees of simple two page web sites and the prices for SEO are extremely high.

Immediately we have upset many internet marketing companies, who have become very abusive towards our company, since they are loosing customers, so in my book, if you charge the right price, offer the right service then your customer will not leave and remain loyal.

In SA customers are contracted for 6 or 12 months on SEO, we work month by month, we believe in proving the success each month, before the customer pays for the next month, meaning that we work hard and never become complacent, this has annoyed many SEO companies in SA, but is normal practice in the USA and UK.

We guarantee that if we haven't increased traffic by 10%-20% in the first month, which is the slowest month, then we will work "free of charge" until this has been achieved, no other company in SA will offer the guarantee, but once again this is normal within the USA and UK

If we placed customerâs names on the web site they would be automatically called by the competition and directed to all the bad press, in which 90% has been posted by them, to create concern and I feel this is bad business, we have never blogged about a competitor and never will.

I could show you privately, customer emails, to erase any concerns. Customers who have been with other SEO companies and suddenly seen the biggest increase in traffic from our work and remain happy with the service.

We've had a few SA companies trying to replicate the business model, so we try and keep launch emails, welcome letters, confirmation scripts etc for the eyes of customers only, once confirmed they are all sent.

The blogging has now reduced and itâs only the last few, non customers who remain bitter and follow the forums, seriously customers do email directors@ and I work 12 hours per day, to ensure I offer the personal service, because every customer is important, regardless of size or income fee. 
We currently take on 80 SA customers per week, working 5 days per week, for the last 12 months, totalling 20,800 customers. We have probably lost around 10%, meaning around 18,000 live customers.

If we were a scam company then having 18,000 bloggers would the end the scam, because scams normally last for six months until all clients become upset, then the company disappears, unfortunately for SA we are expanding and enjoying real success by offering âvalue for moneyâ

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## Unison

Hey 'die hard' Andy, just go away would you? 

Here are a few more customers that were ripped off by you guys:
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...edia-Marketing

Now also trading as "media mountain"............

How's Manchester by the way?

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## tonyflanigan

lol! 
me sits...
me reads...
me thinks...
shhhhhh...
not gonna say nuffink!

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## tec0

lol 
me agree...

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## Transport Exchange

Thanks for all the info - I have learned allot from this thread...

Maybe Andy is a Mandy.... ( bwhahaha - ok stupid joke )

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## Dave A

I met a guy at the conference I was at last week who was on this for a month. He confirmed he was on page one for the search terms he wanted for the month - just didn't get any paying business out of it.

He wasn't upset - just had it down as school fees.

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