# Regulatory Compliance Category > National Credit Act Forum >  I do not understand Debt Counselling fully????

## Gfacius

Hi,
My wife and I have been on debt counselling since August 2011.
We have managed to pay our instalments of R10171.18 every month.
We started falling behind from the end of Feb this year and paid about a week later (10 March)
Then again a late payment for the next month was also a week later.
Now May and June has not been paid at all yet as we simply do not have the full amount of R10171.18 + R10171.18
I emailed the debt counsellors to ask if we can pay whatever we can (as we get money through the month) to start catching up and if they can then pay these small amounts towards our cars and house to show the creditors that we are at least paying something for now. The answer I got was
Good day Gary,
Unfortunately the process does not work that way.
Payments need to be the full amount so when distribution takes place its a once off payment.
You will have to get the payments up to date as soon as possible to avoid your creditors terminating because if they want to terminate and we dont have proof of the correct payments we cannot protect you.
Your other option is to sequestrate if you are struggling with the monthly payments towards the debt counselling.
OK. So here is my question.
What is the point of Debt counselling if we HAVE to make the FULL payment each and every month. I mean, the whole point of being on debt counselling is that we are struggling with our debt. I think it is also because we work for ourselves and do not always have enough money at the end of the month as we dont earn a fixed salary? So would it not be better for me to come off debt counselling so that I may pay something towards my cars and house bond?
Also I keep getting asked to take their sequestration product? This is worse because an investor would buy my house at an auction price (80%) less than market price from the bank and then I would have to RENT my house from the investor at almost the same monthly price as I was paying? And this would be disastrous in the fact that if I miss a payment then, the investor could kick me out and Ill be on the street in no time.
I am really in a catch 22 situation and really need some serious advice. Also with the sequestration package I would be able to start paying for the cars with the finance companies as before? But I thought a Sequestration means that you cannot do this as everything in your personal portfolio would be scrapped and you would lose these financed items?
Please Help. I would rather just come off Debt counselling and make arrangements with my house Bond and 2 cars myself and pay what I can for awhile so they can see I am trying and then as soon as things pick up again, pay the full instalments?

I have a copy of the Sequestration Product if you need me to post it...

Any advice will do please.
Many Thanks.

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## Just Gone

I'm sure some people will give you advice here, but I would like to say one thing :- Make sure that the money that goes to the debt councillor is goint to the people you owe to - make sure of this every month, because I have a friend that has been paying a debto councillor for over a year and has just found out that the debt councillor is paying a minimal amount over - perhaps his fault as well, thefore just be aware !

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## Dave A

> Now May and June has not been paid at all yet as we simply do not have the full amount of R10’171.18 + R10’171.18


Pay R10 171.18 now, and the next as soon as you can.

You really, really *really* need to try to stay with the schedule. As you are clearly aware, the consequences of the debt re-arrangement being cancelled are severe.

You work for yourself - *make* it happen.

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## Blurock

Hi Gary,

What business are you in? It seems as if the problem may start with the business not generating enough cash. 

My question; is the business sustainable? Is there a way to increase profits and revenue? 
Do a health check on the business and see if it is possible to collect outstanding debts and to reduce stock to generate cash into the business. :Smile:

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## murdock

the way i see debt councilling...as a legal for of loan sharking...at the end of ther day all you do is add more interest onto whatever outstanding debts you already have.

my wife was advised to go for debt councilling...instead she sat down took all her problems...put them onto a spreadsheet and boy where there lots (credit cards...petrol cards...vehicle hp...personal loans)...worked out what she could afford...sent all the people she owed money to an email...with a payment plan...that was end of last year...she has since paid off her car and by the end of this year would have paid off every single credit card...personal load...petrol card...clothing account you name it...without the addtitional interest and cost of a loan shark (debt councillor)...we are talking over R100 000 worth of debt.

she still gets calls every month because she is not paying the full amount outstanding...but "pays the same amount every month"...some of the Aholes try bully her...but as i advised her...so long as she pays every month the same amount there is really nothing they can do...been down the loosing everything road once before and boy did i learn a trick or two.

as soon as you sign something and commit to it with these loan shark...you screwed...just remember like anything in life there is no such thing as a free ride...and people cant pay salaries unless they are making money...so unless a debt councillor is receiving grants from the goverment...they must be making money out of somebody...if you think i am making it up go look at your debt councillors house...vehicle he/she drives and which private school their kids go to.

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## Blurock

I agree with Murdock. Debt consolidation, debt counselling, it all works out expensive due to fees and additional interest. There are instances where debt counselling may prevent the creditors from pouncing and attaching your assets, but as a rule you can sort it out yourself. The only thing is you MUST have discipline and stick to your arrangement.

Do not incur new debt. Pay off the high interest items first. Play open cards with your creditors. See the warning signs early and ask for help. Do not wait until things get out of hand and then expect a bailout. 

I have yet to see a bank or creditor turn someone away when they play open cards and show an intention to pay, although late. :Wink:

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## murdock

they do try bully you...call you all hours of the day and night...but in reality there is nothing they can do if you just pay what you agree to...every single month.

the best advice i could ever give anyone...reduce your credit limits...to an amount you can manage...i am not saying dont have credit cards or clothing accounts...just make sure they are within your limits...and when their credit department calls you or sends you a message to tell you your limit has been increased...get back to them and tell them to keep it.

my credit card started off at R1000 and when i looked again...a couple of years later it was sitting at over R50000 in the red...plus all the other limits which where slowly increased over a period of time...when i looked again i was in over R200 000 worth of debt in cards and loans ...not including my bond or vehicle hp...and sinking fast...i got stuck in worked 20 hours a day...7 days a week for 2 months and made a little more than i owed everyone...as soon as i got paid...i paid out the entire amount and at the same time reduced all my limits to manageable amount....i have noticed they have been slipping again...but will address the issue shortly...in fact this time i will be reducing limits to around R1000 max.

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## theDCI

I am surprised that you can even say the above and have not been reading the news of late especially yesterdays Cape Times Headline, "banks are greedy financial monsters"...
If anyone thinks that debt counselling does not work, it is because many credit providers do not want it to work and in fact, most press reports have only given a very one sided story. Yes there have been some bad debt counsellors who have stolen consumers money. But please show me any other profession where this has also not occurred. It happens in every profession and if consumers knew their rights, enforced their rights, and ensured they also took accountability for their debt by asking their debt counsellors for proof, most of the problems with the "bad apples" within the debt counselling industry would be no longer. 

Gfacius please do yourself a favour and take note of these facts. Please also do visit www.thedci.co.za and you are more than welcome to email me directly off the site so that I can help you.
1) Is is law that consumers must make payments monthly as per the agreed amount as your entire proposal to the bank is based on these figures
2) Yes, you can pay in at different times of the month and yes you may also get your debt counsellor to send out a 17.3 informing your credit providers that late payment will be made, or that there has been a change of circumstance. You must however also inform them of how you will catch up on your payments.
3) Point 2 CANNOT happen every month
4) Debt Counselling is the last resort before sequestration. If you cannot pay monthly you must sequestrate. If you do not sequestrate and the banks sell your house, you are liable for the shortfall. If you sequestrate, all your debt is cleared.
5) NEVER pay monthly into any debt counsellors account for your monthly payments. It must be with a Payment Distribution Agency, that is registered with the NCR.
6) Download the Consumer Safety Checklist For Dealing With Debt Counsellors from www.thedci.co.za under consumers / documents and contacts / documents no 12.
7) There is no other profession in South Africa, that has saved the tens of thousands of homes, cars and lives as that of the Debt Counselling Industry. I will challenge any person with facts on this one, because this is the truth, but unfortunately, it is SA's best kept secret...why because your creditors do not like you being in debt review. You only need to look at this link, read the comments to see the truth http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/...bad-faith.html
8) theDCI is the only site in SA that gives you information without the sugar coatings of many other sites - why, because we fight for consumers rights, education while trying to help empower DC's further by exposing the truth of this industry in the press.
9) Also go see www.facebook.com/theDCI read all the press articles to see what I am talking about in the above comments. Alternatively, you may contact me on info@thedci.co.za 
10) If you come out of debt review please understand that your creditors will charge you ALL the arrears interest and charges pertaining to your debt. They will demand that you pay all at once. If you don't, they will issue you a summons, and if they promise you they will not, you can pay them off, *I can give you hundreds of people who can tell you the truth of what the banks did to them, once they came out of debt review after trusting what they were told.*

Know all the facts before you stop making your monthly payments. Do not listen to people who are not specialised as debt counsellors and who are not in the industry for a few years, as it is not their assets in question, therefore easy to give *very poor advice.*
It is not just a bond and asset finance that we are talking about, it is about YOUR FAMILY HOME AND CAR which enables you to produce an income as well as transport your family from point A to point B safely.
Take a look at the information and links I have provided you with - these are the real facts.

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## theDCI

> the way i see debt councilling...as a legal for of loan sharking...at the end of ther day all you do is add more interest onto whatever outstanding debts you already have.
> 
> my wife was advised to go for debt councilling...instead she sat down took all her problems...put them onto a spreadsheet and boy where there lots (credit cards...petrol cards...vehicle hp...personal loans)...worked out what she could afford...sent all the people she owed money to an email...with a payment plan...that was end of last year...she has since paid off her car and by the end of this year would have paid off every single credit card...personal load...petrol card...clothing account you name it...without the addtitional interest and cost of a loan shark (debt councillor)...we are talking over R100 000 worth of debt.
> 
> she still gets calls every month because she is not paying the full amount outstanding...but "pays the same amount every month"...some of the Aholes try bully her...but as i advised her...so long as she pays every month the same amount there is really nothing they can do...been down the loosing everything road once before and boy did i learn a trick or two.
> 
> as soon as you sign something and commit to it with these loan shark...you screwed...just remember like anything in life there is no such thing as a free ride...and people cant pay salaries unless they are making money...so unless a debt councillor is receiving grants from the goverment...they must be making money out of somebody...if you think i am making it up go look at your debt councillors house...vehicle he/she drives and which private school their kids go to.


Murdock - you should know your facts before making such comments on a live forum which are clearly false and defamatory. I invite you to come and sit in my office or any other debt counsellors office for one week to see the truth of what really occurs.

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## Dave A

> if consumers knew their rights, enforced their rights, and ensured they also took accountability for their debt by asking their debt counsellors for proof, most of the problems with the "bad apples" within the debt counselling industry would be no longer.


Damn - if only that were true.

This case of debt counselling gone wrong has been vigorously followed up, and all I've seen is a lot of shuffling feet and no accountability from the debt counselling industry and its regulators.

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## Gfacius

Hi Kevinb,
Thanks for the reply!
Yes they are paying the creditors as they send me a statement every so often to show the payments. Also I haven't heard anything from my creditors yet.

Thanks though and I will keep checking!

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## Gfacius

Thanks Dave A,
I agree and that's what worries me. The consequences would probably be severe but you cannot squeeze water from a rock.
Okay, well not at the moment anyway. I know that my business will pickup soon. But how do I show the creditors this if I am on Debt Counseling?

It seems as if the Debt Counselors are no longer interested in your problems once they have received their money which was all upfront. All I get from them is "Good Luck" and "Sequestration"

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## Gfacius

Hi Blurock,

Thanks for your concern and valuable advice. 
I definitely agree it is due to the business. Probably my fault too as I am the business. 
I do "glass bonding" ie. UV Bonding is a process whereby, typically two pieces of glass are glued together using a UV curing adhesive, which is cured by either a UV light or UV activator. So I do showcases to all kinds of problems people have out there and also deal largely with shopfitting companies.
I have a website and most of my business comes from them finding me on Google. I have also patented 3 swimming pool products one of which is called the "Stealth Filter Buddy". However, the big boys are keeping me out and the patent fees have definitely put a strain on my uvbonding business. At this stage "Stealth Pool Products" is being De-registered by Cipro as my accountant decided not to do the annual returns anymore as there was no money coming in to the business for awhile now.

The big shame in all this is that It is definitely a great product and facilitates in the cleaning of the weir basket. All users so far have given good reviews and have sworn never to use the old type again.
Builders Warehouse were keen to have it as there product but have never approached me again and I think it was politics mixed with Mass Mart.

Life is just not fair and I am fed up.

One of my friends works for OMSA (Operational Marketing) and is trying to get me to do some more Siemens electrical 'light current' installations for them. This definitely helped last year when I did a big installation for Savuka Gold Mine.
If I could just do more of these I would be out of the poop in no time.

My wife and I also started a website design and hosting company but is still in the infancy stages and requires more time to grow. It almost feels like I am fighting against time. It's as if you fall of a ship and are busy drowning. You know the ship is turning around because you can see it but it feels as if it won't be in time.

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## Just Gone

> you should know your facts before making such comments on a live forum which are clearly false


DCI ....... you seem quite arrogant with your postings at Murdock ............... well for your info the FACT is ......... a friend of myne paid monthly to a debt consolidation company who did not pay the correct amount over to the people he owed money to - they paid small amounts just to keep them quite and has ducked with the rest of the money !!!!! So that is the fact - which is not "false" as you state !

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## Gfacius

Hi DCI,

I do agree with you and probably don't give credit to the debt counselors or the system as I should.

Starting at the beginning, it did help me when we just started out as we didn't have to pay the first monthly payments when we first went on to Debt Review.

My problem now is simply this. At that stage my accountant gave them a letter to state that I am earning R20'000 per month. In fact this has changed considerably. What happens now? Can they amend or re negotiate the initial agreed payment schedule because my situation has changed for the worse. I don't know and it seems like a mountain in front of me because I, number one, don't have the time because I am busy running around closing holes where I can and trying to get more business to stay alive. And number two, feels as if they won't do it because they want to make more money from me by their Sequestration Product which will cost me a further R15'000.

So at the end of the day I feel as if I have sealed my own fate and wish I had never gone that route and rather did what Murdock suggested and that is to have played open cards with my creditors? In fact I did do this for awhile but eventually I started missing my agreed payments here and there and fell further behind.

I definitely agree with Blurock, this is a "Own Business" generated problem and seriously need to get more business and quickly...

I have since cut my DSTV off, gone to Outsurance for a lower insurance premium, stopped my household insurance etc. I also now plan my jobs and routes to save on petrol.

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## Dave A

Gfacius - reading all those different irons you have in the fire, my kneejerk reaction was pick something and focus on it. Diffused effort is a common reason for poor results - focused effort is unstoppable. You only need one winner right now. You can add others later.

A second thought is creditors just want their money, just like you or anyone else when you're owed money. They're not investors in your plans - why should they finance you?

Third - you have a choice. Make the debt agreement work and keep your assets, or forfeit *all* your assets and start fresh from a fairly clean slate (with no access to credit for the next 5 years etc.). There is no middle road here. (Which isn't the point I'm trying to get to - but this is it...)

It's *your* choice!

You're right - you're running out of time. In fact you've *run out of time*. You're in overtime.
There is no time to indulge in the "woe is me" and "the ship's turning" stuff. Things need to happen now!

You need to make it happen NOW!
Get into overdrive.
Who can you call to make a sale *right now!*
And the next person.
And the next.

No time to feel sorry for yourself. 
No time to feel tired.
No time to feel self-concious or whatever else might be holding you back.
Time to get a$$ into gear and do what it takes to make sh!t happen.

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## RvanEck

*I am no expert, but this is the way I see it:* 
If you are struggling, you had the right to seek debt counselling. You then need to make a NEW commitment of what you can pay. This may be accepted or rejected. Now once you failed to keep to the new plan, then you are in deep trouble, as you have now lost the protection offered by the law that must protect you.... I do not think you get another change to make a new deal. They may declare you insolvent if they wish...

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## SilverNodashi

GFacius, what does your business need in order to grow and pay you a better salary?

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## murdock

> Murdock - you should know your facts before making such comments on a live forum which are clearly false and defamatory. I invite you to come and sit in my office or any other debt counsellors office for one week to see the truth of what really occurs.


so let me get my fact straight then on a live forum before i make another comment...let me then ask you a few question so that i can get my fact straight...

you dont make any profit/interest out of your customers?
You make absolutely no money from the people who come to you with debt problems?
who pays your staff and your salary?

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## theDCI

Hi Gfacius - If you do not have a court order in place, your debt counsellor can do a change on your proposal, debt counsellors are suppose to do annual assessments in which these factors are taken into consideration. If you have a court order in place it will be far more difficult. 
You can try to pay your creditors directly but I can almost promise you, they will not honor it for more than 6 months, especially if a bond and vehicle is involved. But if you feel like this is a solution then you must do it, but there is no protection for you. If sequestration is what you need, then you do not need to pay R15,000 to get it done. Sequestration product ? If it is a product that says you can live in your house even though it has been sold, or it will allow you to buy your house back in a few years DO NOT DO IT - it is a scam and unlawful. There are sequestration attorneys on theDCI that we have brokered a deal with, that they will charge you R6800. And just incase you are wondering, no I do not make a cent out of any client that use's them.

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## theDCI

Murdock - like I said in my previous post, come and sit in my office or any other DC's to see the truth of what actually occurs.
In terms of profit / interest from consumers, the answer is absolutely not.
Do you work for nothing or any other professional ?
A debt counsellor is not a charity, even though many of us do work for nothing for many clients. Being paid a professional fee is no different from any other profession.

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## theDCI

Kevin - There is a difference between facts and assumptions. 
Once again I ask, can anyone show me one industry or profession whereby fraud, theft and using a con to take people for a ride does not exist ?

Why would someone assume that every debt counsellor and the entire industry is painted with the exact same brush as those who have done people in ? 
If you all have statistical data proving the above then please show it to me as it is something I have not seen.
The statistical data that can be shown to you, are the tens of thousands of SA that have saved their assets and lives because of the debt review process.

It is always better to try and see the entire picture, rather than just one side of the frame.

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## murdock

thanks for the offer...but i have no need to come to your office...however i am sure there are lots of people on this forum and others...who would like to know what it is exactly debt councilling companies do and how they derive an income...maybe people like myself...have just heard too many bad things....maybe it is not always the company which is the problem but rather the customer...as we all know there are bad elements in all industries/fields...here you have a good opitunity to clear up some misunderstndings or myths about debt councilling

what do debt councilling companies do?
 how do they make a living?

if i am in R100 000 worth of debt and am missing payments...why do i go to a debt councillor?

how do you make a living...do you charge by the hour for your services or do you lend people money?

help us to understand...what debt councilling is all about...and  why it is not such a bad thing as people make it out to be...personally when i hear debt councilling...i see loan shark...please clear up this misconseption.

this could be better started in a whole new thread...leave it up to dave to make the call.

there are a variety of reasons why people get into debt...

mismanagement of their finances...bad customers 
lose of employment...
motor vehicle accident...(as in my case many years ago)
winning/earning lots of money...buying lots of material...then cannot keep up and maintain the lifestyle...

but lets rather look at "debt councilling" how did they come about and what is your primary function in a society which unfortunetly has got to a stage where most people are living on plastic and credit.

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## Dave A

> personally when i hear debt councilling...i see loan shark...please clear up this misconseption.


*Loan* shark or just *shark*?

I suppose I can see where the "shark" association comes from - all too easy to see the industry as one that takes advantage of others' troubles.

I must say at the early stages of the debt counselling industry, I had serious reservations about whether they woud really be adding value. It is, after all, an extra cost on top of an already heavy debt burden. But the industry has become more professional.

There is a much better understanding of what processes work and what doesn't. Handling of payments received and distribution is much improved, with better reporting systems making this more transparent. And then the big win was a breakthrough agreement on reduced interest rates and extended payment periods with the banks.

So there is potential there for the debt counselling industry to be a real source of value for society. And in fairness the industry is starting to realise it.

What troubles me is there remains no accountability for the school fees of this industry paid by some of their early clients. There are cases where the negligence, incompetence and in one case I'm aware of outright fraud of the debt counsellor has cost their client dearly, and ordinarily would attract a civil lawsuit to recover damages. Of course, the over-indebted client doesn't have the funds to institute such a lawsuit, and must suffer their losses as authorities and the industry try to sweep these cases under the carpet.

...but they don't suffer their losses in silence... 

And it's clients' views shared that ultimately is the reputation of an industry.

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## theDCI

Murdock - the debt counsellors work is to help restructure the clients debt. 
What this means is doing a financial assessment and looking at their income v.s their living expenses and debt. Making sure that if they have a car they are insured, if they have a bond, life cover is in place. Although debt counsellors are not financial service providers, they have to ensure clients risks are covered. A budget is then drawn up that the client agrees on, as they are the one's that have to honor the payments. In between all of this a 17.1 and 17.2 is sent out to the credit providers requesting balances. One is lucky of these come in, if not it is a constant fight to please send these. Payment instructions are issued to the client for the debt counsellors fee, the application fee, ITC report and legal fee. Once this is done, the debt counsellor will work out a proposal for all credit providers and this has to prove how the client will get out of debt. This is where the big fight comes in, as there are certain laws which the credit providers do not think they have to abide by. One of these rules is in duplum and another prescription. 
Although there are industry rules which states that banks will lower interest, it is nothing but a press hype as in real terms, unless you use the credit providers software, which leaves out the possibility to claim for reckless lending, in duplum or prescription, they fight you if interest is lowered. The industry was informed in January 2011 that interest could be lowered, the press announcement was done 6 weeks ago ! This was done for another program that banks want to bring in which is like debt counselling, only the credit providers version. This has been stopped for further investigation by the NCR.
Once the proposal has been completed, the court matter must be set but in between all of this, clients get harassed by the banks, told their debt counsellor is stealing their money and that debt counselling is not working. The courts can take months to hear a case and until the court order is granted, the counsellor fights daily for the rights of the consumers. 
The debt counsellor must also, ensure payments are made, if not send out notification for problems along with a new payment plan.
Sort out all queries from the client, the banks who lose monies paid over to them by the pda's, the pda's who change systems without notifying the debt counsellors only for payments not to occur as per the instruction that the debt counsellor gave over to them, fight banks attorneys who are trying to terminate the clients unlawfully, fight of further legal action, send letters of harassment to the NCR and Tribunal in the hope of some relief for the client, appear in court when needed, be the clients counsellor if anything occurs that could affect their payments.

Fees: R50 application fee, R50 ITC fee (per person). Debt counsellors fees are as little as R100 up to the max of R6000 once off (combines even for a joint application). Legal fees can range from R1500 - R6000 depending on attorney. Most attorneys will charge what the counsellor got paid to be fair to client who can only afford R500. There is a monthly fee of 5% for the first year which decreases to 3% from second year to clearance of client. There is however a max set on this 5% and 3% fee of R450 (combined even for a joint application)...and now you can see why debt counsellors are closing their doors for business. The running costs are very high in comparison to what you get. If your client does not pay the pda, the counsellor does not get paid, even though they still need to make the many phone calls, send out a ton of emails daily and try and protect a client from attorneys.

Many people got into debt counselling to make a quick buck - they have all left - the ones that are left standing are the real counsellors. The large companies in debt counselling are nothing like the single debt counsellors and advise to any consumer looking to see a debt counsellor - the smaller ones will do all the work themselves, they counsel the clients, have a personal relationship with clients, they are the real professionals. 

Determined to set the record straight on issues with the press, as well as with the public, you are more than welcome to take a look on http://www.facebook.com/theDCI and see the our articles that have been in the press.

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## Just Gone

DCI  


> Why would someone assume that every debt counsellor and the entire industry is painted with the exact same brush as those who have done people in ?


NO-ONE assumed this about EVERY debt counsellor - Please read properly before you get on your high horse !!

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## theDCI

Dave - what many people don't understand is that the banks, attorneys, consumers and pda's have all made the debt counsellors their escape goat.

Banks loose money paid over to them as they change account numbers without notifying the pda or DC. 
Attorneys steal clients money by not completing mandates which they have been paid for in full. 
Consumers do not stick to their payments, do not notify the DC and either make no payments or short payments which is immediate termination if no notification has been sent out. The Festive Season is the worst month for this as come Jan, a Summons is waiting for them and from a legal perspective, the DC's hands are tied.
PDA's do not always pay the money over as they should, there are only 2 that should be used. 
Some Magistrates have no clue about the NCA or the rulings and very little money has been spent on educating the judicial system. 
...But for all of these mentioned, it is only the DC that gets blamed.

With very little infrastructure in place, little to no support from from Associations, loop holes in the NCA that banks have found, debt counsellors literally getting thrown into the sea with no clue on how to swim, with no life jacket or raft in a sea invested by *real sharks*....the debt counselling industry is the most successful industry in SA as no other has had an ongoing 5 year war.  Yet despite all the above issues, have still saved tens of thousands of homes, cars and lives. The debt counsellors who have been around for a while are real pioneers and despite all the odds, have proven to be a real David and Goliath story. 
There is a big shake up currently happening inside the industry - this will be for the betterment for consumers and may finally prove to many a SA, the real value that a debt counsellor carries for the economy of SA.

Unfortunately the consumers that have been wounded or killed, never knew that there was recourse for them to use. They could have used the NCT / Tribunal, NCR or Ombuds to help them at no charge. Like every war - there are always the one's who got caught up in the cross fire.

Hope you all have some better understanding and clarity on many of the mentioned issues.

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Dave A (06-Jul-12)

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## murdock

thanks for taking the time to respond...

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## Gfacius

> A budget is then drawn up that the client agrees on, as they are the one's that have to honor the payments.


Hi DCI,

OK, I forgot to mention a very important factor that has been eating at me inside which is probably what started me off with this whole issue in the first place. 
I was very uncomfortable to take my problems to a debt Councillor but my wife was insisting and nagging that we do. I am the kind of person that has a very good "6th Sense" about people. I kinda get a inner vibe that tries to warn me if I'm doing the right thing or not.

This is what bothers me with the debt counselors that we have now used...

From the word go when we went to see them we all sat down around a very small table and discussed the pro's & con's of debt review. The issue that was of most importance to me was simply "What will we now pay each month towards our debt"
They asked me what we could afford per month and we worked out R6500. (I was thinking just for about 6 months)

My house bond at that time was R7409, My car R2683, my wife's car R1631, Credit cards combined R949 all this totaled R12'672.
The credit cards weren't really a problem as we were at that time paying a very small amount in, just to keep the bank quite. This was working but the debt counselors insisted on the actual monthly payment must be quoted or worked in?

To cut a long story short... 

The debt counselor came back to us and said that the creditors don't accept your payment plan of R6500 but will accept R10'171 (with protection)?

As we were desperate and ignorant to 'Debt Review' we felt we had to accept. 

I still feel that we are being ripped off by someone or the system?

It's a no win situation either way unless you have money? So what is the point of all this then. Now I am just being completely forced to pay what I cannot and this is why I said I have sealed my own fate?.

It's like when a debit order comes off my bank lets say for ADT, Insurance, Vodacom etc. and I don't have enough funds available, my bank returns them unpaid and then charges me R115 for each item returned??? I mean its ridiculous. It feels as if everyone that has financed you one way or another are now like vultures feeding off the last of me until there is nothing left. This is how I am feeling and don't no what else to do.

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Dave A (06-Jul-12)

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## Dave A

> Unfortunately the consumers that have been wounded or killed, never knew that there was recourse for them to use. They could have used the NCT / Tribunal, NCR or Ombuds to help them at no charge.


I take it you didn't read that thread I linked to... approaching the ombud proved useless.

But thanks for your posts anyway - a valuable insight into the current state of play.

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