# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  ESKOM screws us all

## sterne.law@gmail.com

So Eskom got their way. Yes we know they asked for 35% but come on, no one starts a _negotiation_ at the level they want to get. They knew that the ridicolous hike would ahve to be reduced to appease the public, so they set it at 35% probably hoping for 25%
The frustration here - is why waste the time and money of evryone with an application taht would be reviewed? I accept that certain laws are passed in our own interest. EG the majority of people will say the alchol content level is too low, but our judgement is clouded ob such an issue. or a 14 year old believing they should be allowed to smoke etc,etc. Certain alws are aimed at protecting the human being. So it is natural that every person and every business will have objected to the hike, becaues we would alll be affected, abusinessman on two levels, company and at home. So we can question objectivity. But if EVERY business body, chamber and organization and every labour movement etc,etc is saying the same thing - we accept an increase is neccessary but the level needs to be reasonable to ensure growth etc their must be a consensus that the facts are talking and not emotions or ignorance. And despite every representation and every protest against the increase level it occurred. Why do we pretend to ahve a democracy/ Why do we say our Constitution allows us to have a say and why waste our money with the farce of pretending we will listen to the people.
Now is teh time for business to make a stand. We know that labour has more power because they use the strike. Business can also strike but are too worried about the loss of money. But ask yourself if you are going to sell 500 cars in a month, will you not sell 500 cars? So if you close for a day or a half day, will your car sales not simply be spread over a different time period. Of course the all for one attitude does help.
The key question is what can the businesses stop or action that has a direct affect on ESKOM and the government. BUT surely somewhere a stand has to be made - Any ideas? :Headbutt:

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## desA

What is the current cost of electricity c/kWh, for domestic use?

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## AndyD

There's a high consumption domestic tariff and a low consumption one. The unit price depends which tarrif you're charged at and there's also a daily 'service charge' for high tarrif customers. I think it also varies depending on your location and utility ie Eskom or city council. I'm not sure the exact cent price but I'm paying R600-700 per month in a 3 storey house with borehole irrigation, pool, etc and a family of 4.

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desA (26-Feb-10)

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## Dave A

The thing that irks with the Eskom tariff increases is you know a big chunk of it is due to Eskom's own organisational inefficiencies.

The unnecessary road haulage of coal, the purchase of coal at international spot prices. Ultimately we pay for their bad management.

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## desA

What are their main reasons then, for requesting the increased prices? 
Will some of this money be locked into power-station upgrades?
What portion will go towards continued inefficient purchase practices?
How can future costs be contained?
What is the effective oversight?

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## tec0

The truth is we need the power stations and coal is not getting cheaper. However if you look at Eskomâs management structure there is more managers then people doing the actual job. Yes there are more managers per PowerStation then âskilled labourâ working in the plants. Right now people are allowed to work to age 70 simply because there is no âworking training programâ.

If I was Eskom I would have a look at who is eating the money and are they worth that much. Cutting down on management and upping skill on the plants will allow for more reliable PowerStationâs and shorter âshut-downsâ quality control at the coal supply will allow for better power production and less cost. If bad quality coal is used then it WILL damage the systems and maintenance becomes excessive and expensive.

Then there is the government factor. Noting that government owns both Eskom and the Municipality and is indeed taxing both systems one must ask where priorities lie. Government expects all of us to sacrifice but there are NO sacrifices on their behalf. Then the true question is where is the money going? 

Our school systems are dysfunctional, we have no police system and our healthcare system is none existent. So we know that the money is not being used for the country. We have more toll roads than any other country in the world and yet again the money is just disappearing for most of our roads are unusable?

The overall question here is: IS government acting in our best interest? You tell me  :Innocent:

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## Dave A

> What are their main reasons then, for requesting the increased prices?


Because management (particularly strategic management) cocked it up.

They made the supply chain more expensive.
They failed to secure their coal supply on long term contracts.
They failed to put cost-effective coal delivery systems in place.

And yes, as tec0 points out, they failed to have a quality control system in place for the delivered coal. So they were hurling rock into their furnaces instead (something they called "wet coal" at the time).

They priced their supply to foreign owned aluminium smelters (the ultimate electricity gobbling process) at a massively preferential rate (whether it even covered cost is debatable) and then linked it to the international price of aluminium, so when commodity prices collapsed they lost heaps of money (about as much as their loss in their last financial year).

In the face of such incredible maladministration, savvy financiers who might have loaned the money to finance the now needed capital needs for new plant would far rather have their money placed elsewhere. And Eskom hasn't been salting money away over the years for this plant replacement and expansion either. Nope, it's been "VIVA the party".

So now they need to pay for 20 - 30 year capital investments in cash. Now. From profits they're not making in current operations.

Add it all up and BINGO - runaway price increases for everyone (except those aluminium smelters).

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AndyD (28-Feb-10), desA (28-Feb-10), wynn (01-Mar-10)

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## desA

Thanks, Dave - excellent review.

I think that the Aluminium Smelter power issue is probably something they may have been locked into by previous administrations. There was a thrust to develop an Aluminium hub in KZN, from Richard's Bay to Pietermaritzburg (names may have changed?).

You cannot throw poor-grade coal into power-station boilers - they are simply not designed for it. The maintenance costs will be enormous.

What happened to Eskom's mini-nuclear plant developments?

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## desA

The modern trend is to establish biomass-fuel boiler systems, or at least co-fired systems, to reduce the coal consumption, & to provide income opportunties for farmers to grow the fuel sources. This is picking up in Sweden, for instance. Coal-firing is so incredibly dirty in the modern age.

How has solar-energy generation side picked up in SA? Seems that folks need to become more self-sufficient & wean themselves off Eskom as much as possible - except for the larger loads.

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## tec0

Nope! Not so fast.  :Fish: 

Back in 1997 some mining behemoths wanted to establish a PowerStation. This proposal included that Eskom would be able to buy power from them at peak hours âA rip of some may say I think notâ Getting your moneyâs worth is what it is all about. 

Eskom rejected the plan and said they will not allow a privately owned PowerStation to sell power and that The Eskom grid will not allow âtransport of this powerâ to the mining group in question.  :EEK!: 

The aluminium and steel foundries made similar suggestions knowing that selling power at beak times would make their PowerStationâs a reality but again Eskom showed there greed and said in a letter that the power provided by privately owned PowerStationâs will NOT BE USED and will NOT be carried by Eskomâs infrastructure âGridâ.   :EEK!: 

Thus making it impossible for privately owned PowerStations. Note that SASOL entered a similar proposal in 2009. Fortunately for SASOL there is no need to use the âNational Gridâ So watch that space....    :Wink: 

The point of this post is to show you that foundries wanted to help out âat a small profitâ but who can blame them. The same is true with the mining bodies...  :Cool:

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desA (28-Feb-10)

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## desA

Interesting.

I guess that the ultimate power grid will soon be the one from your solar panel to your home.

There would be no logical reason though, for larger cities to not go back to their own power-stations & use only make-up from the national grid. Roll back the clock 100 years.  :Rofl:

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## tec0

Right if you live in a âRent-a-homeâ because the bank thinks you are to doggy to own your own then solar-power becomes a pipe dream.  It is just not feasible to install a R40000 system onto a house that I DO NOT OWN. 

So it brings us back to that age old question... what can I do without? 

Hot-water, stove, freezer, TV, Internet, Computer, Alarm system, lights, and let us not forget all the other goodies that runs on power. I have to revert back to the stone age. The question is can I cut back on my cut-backs??? 

In all honesty I am looking into a mobile Solar system will they do exist it! BUT the COST!!! You are talking about a R100000 I will only see a profit after 11 years! And that is excluding maintenance.

Face it âthe alternativesâ is basically the same as shooting hour self in the foot and then convince yourself that you did it for your own good  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Dave A

> I think that the Aluminium Smelter power issue is probably something they may have been locked into by previous administrations. There was a thrust to develop an Aluminium hub in KZN, from Richard's Bay to Pietermaritzburg (names may have changed?).


There was a smelter at Richards Bay, even when I was with Eskom in 1980/1, but pricing wasn't linked to commodity prices. They got much the same bulk rate as large municipalities. The *special* treatment they got was a guarantee of continuous power - or more accurately exceptionally limited downtime. Ultimately, if the pots solidified due to a power failure, Eskom was in for replacing them.

Needless to say, there were adequate measures in place to make sure this never happened.

If the price was linked to commodity prices back then, Eskom wouldn't need these rate increases as the smelters would be paying one the most expensive rates in SA by now.  :Stick Out Tongue: 

 :Hmmm:  Probably why Eskom took the gamble.

I think the "new deal" arose from negotiations on the proposed Coega smelter (which looks like it's not going to happen).

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## Dave A

There is a serious theft problem when it comes to electrical solar panels  :Frown:

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## tec0

Well I hate to say it but solar power is really useless. The power it produces is too little to keep a normal home going. Yes you can run your microwave and a few lights but anything beneath 40 degrees Celsius and you are in for a shock. 

The truth is you need 230v for your stuff not 12v and keeping your stuff running on solar power alone is NOT going to happen.  :Confused:

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## desA

> There is a serious theft problem when it comes to electrical solar panels


Incredible... Have to liven them up a little. Put the 220V to good use.   :Boxing:

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## desA

> Right if you live in a “Rent-a-home” because the bank thinks you are to doggy to own your own then solar-power becomes a pipe dream.  It is just not feasible to install a R40000 system onto a house that I DO NOT OWN. 
> 
> So it brings us back to that age old question... what can I do without? 
> 
> Hot-water, stove, freezer, TV, Internet, Computer, Alarm system, lights, and let us not forget all the other goodies that runs on power. I have to revert back to the stone age. The question is can I cut back on my cut-backs??? 
> 
> In all honesty I am looking into a mobile Solar system will they do exist it! BUT the COST!!! You are talking about a R100000 I will only see a profit after 11 years! And that is excluding maintenance.
> 
> Face it “the alternatives” is basically the same as shooting hour self in the foot and then convince yourself that you did it for your own good


Very fair comments. I also think SA folks are being totally ripped off, by the look of prices I've seen ex China/Taiwan. Guess the solar boys will have set up cartels again - like most other cartels operating in SA.

It may be time to begin looking into powering fridges off a different cycle again - paraffin, etc. The main electrical costs are stove (radiant plate) & geyser, as I remember.

Solar-powered aircon is feasible, now that new technologies are emerging.

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## tec0

Well nothing is for free and trust me alternatives at this point in time is BS!!! They are simply over priced and the power delivery is LESS than satisfactory. 

Using alternative fuel like paraffin is like using gold as a conductor at the moment “it will work but damn!!! The cost!!!” Right now alternatives are more expensive than your “local ESKOM POWER” 

Now:  :Big Grin:  I am working on a combination system. If something is on then something else must be off. Example: if the computer is on then the TV is off. When the microwave is on something else is off.  :Thumbup: 

Will have a list ready by the end of this week  :Thumbup:

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## desA

> Well nothing is for free and trust me alternatives at this point in time is BS!!! They are simply over priced and the power delivery is LESS than satisfactory. 
> 
> Using alternative fuel like paraffin is like using gold as a conductor at the moment “it will work but damn!!! The cost!!!” Right now alternatives are more expensive than your “local ESKOM POWER”


What I'm referring to here is using a waste heat source to partially power a refrigerator, or a/c system. The parafin can be replaced with an alternative heat source.

This is doable at a very low electrical cost. 

Have you worked out the kWh (energy) cost of all your electrical items? Try this, let's say over a month, then rank them. Begin tackling the top three asap. Slowly work your way down the list.

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## tec0

Honestly if I had to cut back on my cut backs I might as well just convert back to living in a cave? But that is the point I am making we are sacrificing our lifestyle to accommodate greed and I donât feel it is right because, I pay for my water to be cleaned, I pay for my power and I pay for my home. 

See Eskom is making it impossible for me to live, why because they cannot work with money??? 

Here is the real question, once all the new PowerStationâs are up and pumping power will we start to pay less for our power? NO they will keep it as high as possible... 

See sun power cannot provide relieve it is really a fantasy that will end up costing you more then what you are paying now. Just look at the installation cost, maintenance cost and actual power delivery and you will find that yes you can drive a notebook but not much else.  :Confused: 

See thanks to Eskom everything will get more expensive especially produce and meat... the truth is we are at their mercy and we need real power solutions. Sun power and wind power is totally useless when you look at the bigger picture.   :Frown:

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## wynn

And the same day as ESCOM get their 25% increase they tell the guys trying to use the Mozambique Current to generate free energy to piss off.

What really burns my bum, beside a four foot flame, it that they wont allow you to develop your own coastal system.


 :Mad:

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tec0 (01-Mar-10)

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## Dave A

> Honestly if I had to cut back on my cut backs I might as well just convert back to living in a cave?


Damn nearly wet myself  :Rofl:

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## hendri.ehlers

Kry jy krag van ESKOM af? Ja? Dan moet jy die lees!

Dit het onder ons aandag gekom dat kliënte by Eskom wat op die Home Power Rate is geen netwerk of dienste gelde betaal nie, ongeag die feit dat hul ook op kleinhoewes woon. Dus word die netwerk deur  diegene wat op die sogenaamde Landrate is gesubsidieer. Ons het op aanbeveling van n burgerregte organisasie 'n forum gestig wat hul misnoeë wil uitspreek oor dié  beginsel van Eskom.  Ons wil nie  diegene wat reeds op HOME POWER RATE is benadeel nie, maar ons wil hul verseker ook nie subsidieer en/of ons self benadeel nie.  Dit is ons strewe om gelyke regte/behandeling vir almal te bekom waar almal volgens n eenvormige beginsel betaal.  

Ons wil graag alle ESKOM kliënte uit nooi om by hierdie forum aan te sluit en hul bydrae te lewer oor hoe ons die probleem die hoof kan bied. Daar is geen koste hieraan verbonde om aan te sluit nie.  Dis bloot 'n wyse waardeur 'n belangegroep hul mening lig om die pad vorentoe te beplan, en aksies indien nodig te ko-ordineer.  

Gaan kyk na jou rekening , net onder jou meter lesing net regs van jou "PREMISE ID NUMBER" is "TARIFF NAME". As daar staan Land Rate 1,2,3 betaal jy tussen R600 en R800 meer per maand op jou rekening. Daar kan dalk nog ander tariewe ook wees, ons het dit op Eskom se webwerf probeer kry maar self met die hulp van kliëntediens kon ons dit nie opspoor nie.
Om diegene wat nie internet toegang het nie, nie in die skadu te laat nie, versoek ons vir die wat wel internet toegang het om hul op hoogte van sake te hou.  
Ek wil u amper verseker dat ESKOM die feite stellings in die e-pos sal  afmaak as bog, ek verseker jul egter dat dit nie is nie!
Stuur asb die e-pos aan almal wat hierby kan baat vind.
Die web adres is: www.evf.co.za  (Energie Verbruikers Forum) Sluit aan ons het jou nodig!
Dankie
Die Kantoor
Energie Verbruikers Forum
Fax 0866622555
e-pos: admin@evf.co.za

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## Dave A

Good luck with the forum, Hendri.

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hendri.ehlers (22-Feb-11)

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## tec0

Well Eskom is screwing everyone right now. Not just us the consumers but their own employees. Fact is Eskom had a few “costly mistakes” “new mistakes” that will take about half of 2011 to fix “if they are lucky” But they don’t train people commercially so they will slowly destroy their own reliability factor and their profits will be replaced with very heavy penalties. And we will end up picking up the bill again I am sure. 

Still the employees at Eskom are suffering. The pressure is nearly unjustifiable they are the lowest paid artisans in the country and heavily understaffed and funny enough heavily “over managed”. I strange concept really... As shown on TV things is not what they seem at the moment.

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## hendri.ehlers

> Kry jy krag van ESKOM af? Ja? Dan moet jy die lees!
> 
> Dit het onder ons aandag gekom dat kliënte by Eskom wat op die “Home Power Rate” is geen netwerk of dienste gelde betaal nie, ongeag die feit dat hul ook op kleinhoewes woon. Dus word die netwerk deur  diegene wat op die sogenaamde “Landrate” is gesubsidieer. Ons het op aanbeveling van ‘n burgerregte organisasie 'n forum gestig wat hul misnoeë wil uitspreek oor dié  beginsel van Eskom.  Ons wil nie  diegene wat reeds op “HOME POWER RATE” is benadeel nie, maar ons wil hul verseker ook nie subsidieer en/of ons self benadeel nie.  Dit is ons strewe om gelyke regte/behandeling vir almal te bekom waar almal volgens ‘n eenvormige beginsel betaal.  
> 
> Ons wil graag alle ESKOM kliënte uit nooi om by hierdie forum aan te sluit en hul bydrae te lewer oor hoe ons die probleem die hoof kan bied. Daar is geen koste hieraan verbonde om aan te sluit nie.  Dis bloot 'n wyse waardeur 'n belangegroep hul mening lig om die pad vorentoe te beplan, en aksies indien nodig te ko-ordineer.  
> 
> Gaan kyk na jou rekening , net onder jou meter lesing net regs van jou "PREMISE ID NUMBER" is "TARIFF NAME". As daar staan Land Rate 1,2,3 betaal jy tussen R600 en R800 meer per maand op jou rekening. Daar kan dalk nog ander tariewe ook wees, ons het dit op Eskom se webwerf probeer kry maar self met die hulp van kliëntediens kon ons dit nie opspoor nie.
> Om diegene wat nie internet toegang het nie, nie in die skadu te laat nie, versoek ons vir die wat wel internet toegang het om hul op hoogte van sake te hou.  
> Ek wil u amper verseker dat ESKOM die feite stellings in die e-pos sal  afmaak as bog, ek verseker jul egter dat dit nie is nie!
> ...


Good, they are back online!

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## gac

This is a classic example of the vagaries and inefficiencies of a monopolistic state owned entity. No competition, no shareholder watchdog and zero accountability.

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## tec0

At this moment I am happy to report that my household consumes less than 300 watts and if the sun comes out my power consumption drops to an actual 126 watts. That is as low as I can go and still have fresh food. 

So it is possible to consume near to no energy but does this help? What is the point in having access to power and we are not allowed to use it? I am planning to install solar panels so that it can drive the notebook and other systems.  Basically the same solar panels you get for “camping” They are not as big and if you shop around you can pick them up cheaply. 

 But it is not a solution... New PowerStation’s is also not a solution as they are still burners in the end. Fusion it seems is our only long term solution but thanks to the green maniacs this is no longer a possibility.  

As for Eskom, they treat their employees like crap, no real innovations nor training being done on their side. In short Eskom is probably the biggest tick I have ever seen...  That said if Eskom goes the country goes with them so what can we do?

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## Dave A

> Good, they are back online!


Nothing quite like losing all the content in a forum. What went wrong?

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## Citizen X

> The thing that irks with the Eskom tariff increases is you know a big chunk of it is due to Eskom's own organisational inefficiencies.
> 
> The unnecessary road haulage of coal, the purchase of coal at international spot prices. Ultimately we pay for their bad management.


In corporate South Africa, a manager is accountable and responsible for his department or portfolio. There is a sense of urgency to meet KPI's. In most cases there is a performance agreement. Now this is not the case with ESKOM. Not only is there no sense of urgency by management at all levels of ESKOM but also no accountability. It doesn't really matter how poorly a manager performs, they still get to keep their jobs. Yesterday between 11:00 and 14:00 certain extensionsw in Lenasia had no electricity. ESKOm claims that load shedding hasn't started yet, but it sure seems like that to me.

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## hendri.ehlers

> Nothing quite like losing all the content in a forum. What went wrong?


No, it was partly my fault, lack of knowledge, sloppy administration and things like that, and the hackers where in, loading own php code - used the server to send spam- hosting company's IP got "black listed" and wanted to stop my account. I had to delete all code, databases off the server, and block access to the site. *In sort- hacker broke my site* To me hackers are like rapists, I hate them!

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## NeelsB

Eskom..Escom...damn..This is a governmental institution. How can a "top official" earn millions and receive millions of bonuses for operating a para government institution?

The stupidity of the last weeks news reports is that Escom increased their loans with 16 odd billion. from 87 to 113 roughly. Also said they made a profit of 14 billion. Now loan at 113 odd billion in stead of 87 odd billion.  With this in mind and fiscal control, i would have used the profit to pay at least 10% of the loan, therefor having a 10 year plan to be "debt free". But no... they would rather give bonusses to the "top officials" there. Leaving us with further increases that are bound to follow. Now does that make sense? What happened to justice, accountability, and a demographic society ship? 
Isnt a semi socialist state type of control better than this?
In our lifetime we can "create" the beter life for all, but im bound to not experience it , as this corrupt system, officials etc. will haunt my life and makes you wonder ...why do we live. if not for the opportunity granted to us to use all our skills, talents and abilities to enhance and contribute to life and do our social responsibility, we wouldnt have been here.
Do i need to repeat life's question?
Why are we here?
Like Shakespeare said  "Life is such one big sorrow"  I do believe that except for being mere "users" there must be some good in mankind.

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## NeelsB

Henry i share your sentiments. I use hacking of phreaking in order to do good..in forensic or criminal investigations, but have privately also been the victim of "hackers" or id thiefs. It makes me want to set up a private organization, or use current govermental systems, to trace these #*_^# and hurt them. Preferably financial so that it will teach them a life lesson.

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