# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Business Ideas 101

## vieome

Most of us are here to promote our businesses, some are here for the interesting conversations. But being a business forum, I am hoping people would join this thread and throw business ideas they might have but have no interest investing in, or time to open the door of opportunity, so lets put some ideas out there for those wanting to invest and lacking ideas. 

1. Water Purification
A future problem in South Africa, water chemicals are expensive and with bad service delivery water quality will get worse and worse. You can get a water franchise business with sosafe.com. The brilliance of this idea is that it kind of follows the software model. You sell clients the purification machine like say Reverse Osmosis, dont try and make a large profit on the machine, you make money from replacement cartridges.

2. Water Storage Tanks
With lack of water it is important that people collect rain water for use in the Garden etc. But perhaps in stead of making plastic ones for sale set up a business making them out of bricks, I have even seen some in Malaysia made out of wire mess and clay.

3. Solar Panels
Provide some form of solar power for homes.

4. Invertors
One can use solar to charge battery and an invertor to power up house, a good future business to invest in.

5. Rasberry Pi
Seems there is a demand for these Mobo's, installed with a good linux OS one I am sure can find a market for the many wishing to join the computer revolution

6. Dried Foods

8. With the price of petrol increasing, people will need some from of Petrol storage at home, so that they can buy and keep before a price rise.

9. Security- Not every one can afford good security, but one could make fake cameras, fake electric wiring, just to give the illusion of security. Sounds stupid I guess but a plane flying at 3000 feet with a seat belt is an illusion of safety. 

What ideas do you have for business in this enviroment. What can be imported that is needed, what should be manufactured and not imported.

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## BusFact

I tend to be a bit of a sceptic. I'll happily do my best to punch holes in any business ideas  :Smile: . The biggest problem with this is that if its a genuine half decent idea, guys are going to try and keep it out of the public domain for as long as possible - until it comes to sales time.

I've had extra capacity in terms of staff, factory space and other basic infrastructure for years now, but have still not managed to find products to take up this slack. It of course doesn't help that I tend to need serious convincing when it comes to business ideas. I am of the view that a decent new product needs somebody to "champion" it and get the first sales going by using their specific skills, experience and/or contacts. Finding someone to do this is tough.

However it will be interesting to see if what people might add to your list.

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## Blurock

How about Reverse Factoring?

Big corporates are being forced to buy from BEE suppliers to maintain a high BEE rating. The small, black supplier usually does not have access to bank credit as he; 1. may be too small, 2. does not have equity, 3. does not have security, 4. does not even have a proper balance sheet, 5. may have a poor credit record or even judgments against him.

*Scenario:* Big Company (BC) buys from established suppliers with whom they enjoy 30 day credit terms, which gives the accounts dept. time to reconcile accounts and arrange for payment. BC now want to buy from a small black entrepreneur (Sipho) to boost BEE points, but also to promote black entrepreneurship. 

*Problem:* Sipho can not give 30 days credit and requires COD payment so that he can buy stock for the next order. He has no access to bank credit as he has no security and a bad credit record (because he gave credit before and could not pay his own supplier). BC does not want to pay COD as it also causes problems with the accounting cycle.

*Solution:* BC contacts me to arrange Reverse Factoring which will enable COD payments to Sipho, but still allow BC their 30 day terms. I do not require any credit checks or security from Sipho, as payment is guaranteed by BC. BC is a Big Company with an excellent credit record, so the risk is minimal, as long as we have proof of payment and correct documentation (invoice, POD etc.)

*Operation:* Sipho delivers goods. BC sends E-mail or fax to confirm delivery. Factor confirms details and gross invoice value. Once validated, Factor deducts fees and pays Sipho via EFT. No retention is required as there will be no further dilution of the confirmed invoice value. At month end BC reconciles accounts and pay Factor the total of invoices due. 

*Risk/Reward:* a flat fee of 5% is charged and deducted from Sipho's gross invoice value. Sipho can buy COD and demand a discount from his supplier. Sipho can now grow his business as he has no cash flow constraints. As the business grows, Sipho can build up a credit record with his supplier(s) and his bank. He may eventually qualify for an overdraft or other banking facility which may be cheaper. 

Sipho may now invest in a delivery vehicle and start hiring people to work in his expanded business. If we finance all the Sipho's this way, we may even boost the economy by 1 or 2 %.  :Hmmm:

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vieome (06-Sep-12)

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## IanF

Edison made a lot of different light bulbs before he got to the one that worked well. 
I have tried a few things and it is the simple that works. Like short run presentation folders. 
Some interesting ideas how about some ideas around education we need that badly.

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## adrianh

I would like to know the following:

Is this topic about making money or about solving the world's problems? (I don't have an agenda, it's simply a question to determine a departure point)

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## SSS100

good thought  Blurock

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## adrianh

Right, lets throw ideas around.

1. Water Purification
There are many purification systems available ranging from chemical to mechanical systems (the teabag (mircofibre) filter developed by some professor). I can't see any money in this because ppor people don't have money to spend and rich people already have many products to choose from.

2. Water Storage Tanks
Again, there are many available and there is no money in it.

3. Solar Panels
many large companies have spent lots and lots of money developing these systems. We are not going to develop a better system overnight that is going to make us money.

4. Invertors
Same as above.

5. Rasberry Pi
Dev boards have been around for years. Arduino, hordes of Microchip, Atmel, 8051 etc. with the advent of cheap tablets fitted with all the technology in an average PC and IO i just can't see the value in this board other than for hackers to play with. Yes its fun to add a bit of veroboard IO to your devboard but again, it doesn't translate to real money.

6. Dried Foods
Where is the money in this for you and I - there are so many companies that are absolute masters at this.

7. With the price of petrol increasing, people will need some from of Petrol storage at home, so that they can buy and keep before a price rise.
I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole. The average guy already sets himself alight with his kerosene lamp. Imagine how much trouble you will get into when the first guy burns his house down.

8. Security
Now here is a topic that I think one can work with. I've had an idea rolling around in my head for a very long time. Imagine this: You place an airbag in a compartment inside the car door. The bag is installed below the window line facing outward and upward. The bag is controlled by a floor switch that is easily  accessible by the driver. Ok, so when a hijacker gets close enough to the window you hit the button. The force should be enough to knock him over backwards and also to knock his weapon out of his hands. The force will not kill him. That millisecond where he is disoriented should give the occupant enough time to take evasive action. The nice thing about this idea is that it does not damage the car and there is no real real risk if the device is accidentally deployed. An airbag deployes within 10ms, the guy will not know what hit him. These could be installed in all four doors and the driver could be given control over their deplyment.

Other ideas:

1. Lets look at electricity and energy.
The problem is that we look at this incorrectly. We turn energy into electricity and then we turn it into someting else i.e. light, heat, etc. I think that we need to focus on generating energy and storing energy in more appropriate forms. So the question is this: If we need light at night, how do we gather light during the day, store it and then set it free at night. Same goes with heat. Ok, light. One could store light directly via lumenescent materials. Heat, one could store it by heating stones and trapping the heat then realising it slowly at night. The point that I am making is that we are trying to solve the wrong problem; the problem is not how to store electricity; the problem is how to store appropriate energy and releas it over time.

2. Transportation (fuel)
Again, we are trying wto solve the wrong problem. The problem is not the cost of petrol per se, the problem is that each of us  move 1.5toms of metal and fuel around because we need to shift our own body mass of say 100kg. Think about it, you move all that mass purely to move your own body around. 

2.1. I met a guy a couple of months ago that came up with an interesting idea to solve this problem; the idea is to develop an app that allows people to share a ride. So, you would register on the system and then you would enter your movements via your smartphone. So lets say I am going to town at 10am leacng there at 12 and them coming back. I would enter this information into the system by giving a Google Maps start point, I could give Waypoints and then the endpoint. Other people looking to go to town could log on to the system and see my movements and then decide to join. Each participant will charge a rate for giving the lift and of course the ones using the service would have to pay a rate. One could have the system square all the charges up at the end of the month. i don't know how the idea is coming along but there is a lot of merit in it.


...time to get the kids to school....

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## vieome

@Adrian Well to get to good ideas one just has to throw around ideas and keep going. Like what Ian said Edison played and played with an idea that led to light for homes. This is really about bouncing around business ideas.

I understand critics, many of the ideas that are making people money in the world today are ideas that people say would never work. When I was living in England I went to soho china town, and the place is full of chinese restaurants, how does one then open a another chineses restarant in a place full of chinese restaurants and make a sucess. One owner starts a restaurant called Wonkys, the theme of the chinese restuarant is that the waiters and chefs are very rude to clients, the restaurant is famous for that. What happens in Vagas people still open casinos. 

Water Purification
I actually ran a small water purification business and there is money to be made, bottled water is just Reverse Osmosis purified water, one could hire out water dispensers and supply companies with water refils, good money in that. Or better yet sell the water dispensers and supply the water. The water companies need a revamp though, in Reverse Osmosis there is 6 stages of purification, the problem is that in selling the fillters you can buy a single stage filtration but you cant then just upgrade your single to double and so on till you get to the RO stage, if that is done plenty can be made. It does not matter if there is a cheap way of purifying water and there are many. People still buy expensive products.

The Ideas I was putting forth are looking at the downward direction South Africa is taking and where the future of making money is. But this thread is about any ideas and how to make them work. 

On education and that I think one could start a time bank. This have been very succesful in many places. 

On the Rasbery Pi, I am desperatly looking for one, and I know quite a few others that are, so already I see a market for that, it maybe money to be made in the short run but it is money to be made.

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## vieome

> 8. Security
> Now here is a topic that I think one can work with. I've had an idea rolling around in my head for a very long time. Imagine this: You place an airbag in a compartment inside the car door. The bag is installed below the window line facing outward and upward. The bag is controlled by a floor switch that is easily accessible by the driver. Ok, so when a hijacker gets close enough to the window you hit the button. The force should be enough to knock him over backwards and also to knock his weapon out of his hands. The force will not kill him. That millisecond where he is disoriented should give the occupant enough time to take evasive action. The nice thing about this idea is that it does not damage the car and there is no real real risk if the device is accidentally deployed. An airbag deployes within 10ms, the guy will not know what hit him. These could be installed in all four doors and the driver could be given control over their deplyment.


  Very interesting idea.

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## Blurock

Years ago someone actually patented a flame thrower mounted in the car door.
It was outlawed due to the potential threat of harm to the hijacker/robber. :Batman:

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## wynn

> 1. Lets look at electricity and energy.
> The problem is that we look at this incorrectly. We turn energy into electricity and then we turn it into someting else i.e. light, heat, etc. I think that we need to focus on generating energy and storing energy in more appropriate forms. So the question is this: If we need light at night, how do we gather light during the day, store it and then set it free at night. Same goes with heat. Ok, light. One could store light directly via lumenescent materials. Heat, one could store it by heating stones and trapping the heat then realising it slowly at night. The point that I am making is that we are trying to solve the wrong problem; the problem is not how to store electricity; the problem is how to store appropriate energy and release it over time.


There is a system that uses PV cells to electrolyze hydrogen from water.
In a twenty four hour period with a given amount of daylight (not necessarily sunlight) the system creates enough hydrogen to drive a turbine that will supply all the electricity a household would need.

Problem is that the PV cells will cover the roof of the average house (pricey)

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## Justloadit

2 Points I would like to address as problems.

1. Storage of petrol has another problem, Petrol goes off if stored for long periods. In fact it start deteriorating at about 3 months. So storage is not a solution.

2. Charging passengers in your vehicle, requires that you have a public drovers license, which requires you to do a driver test every year, and secondly your vehicle insurance will climb dramatically because the vehicle is now used for public transport.

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## cyppok

Dried foods is good money wise, most of dried foods in USA is either local, South American, or Turkish/Mid-East/Central-Asia.

I buy raisins and uruk(dried apricots) my guess is both are from Turkey since the stores I get em at are Russian and simply speaking without local retailers buying your stuff in bulk and at low prices you have no shot.

I have been thinking about this:

1) bullet proof vests to SA how much are they there and who sells em? or does Denel make their own.

2) plexy glass? for bulletproof windows and motion sensors or IR sensors for area security. Ergo if someone between the weght of 100-300lbs walks over it it alerts you but otherwise not really. perhaps bear traps for people lol.

3) adrianh you might be interested in energy storage something like gyros. I mean flywheels. "Beacon power"(went bk but got bought out, so still alive) had interesting technology for flywheel energy storage. Not a new technology but hardly ever talked about. I don't think its' effective for us small users or even small commercial users.

Then you have micro trubines which is somewhat interesting like capstone, but there are diesel and gas generators by big firms like Briggs and Stratton and Yamaha I think, and little guys like Hardy Diesel generators. If their cost and operation is cheaper than Eskom+Municipal overhead charges it might make sense.

Theoretically if you spend more than 63 cents per 1kw an hour it might make sense to get a generator. Assuming diesel cost per gallon is around $7.5 and it takes .84 gallons per 1kw generated as it says in calculations. Most of these above in the states can work on Nat Gas cause we have a lot of it so for some it makes sense.

4/5th) Idea is to figure out what has some energy demands but is not economic on the grid, but is economic off the grid, get grants from own government for part of it, and exploit the niche between grid/non-grid parity. Automate it to compete on labor interruptibility etc...
[Looked at Zhauns, not it in my mind]. Small sugar processing plant might make sense if you actually produce a diesel out of it or an ethalnol aspect. Ergo make it for yourself in essence and distribute to gas station. Granted all of this is already in the multi-million dollar world. 

Perhaps fertilizer, or coffee roasting and packaging.

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## IanF

Alex instead of posting the same link in several threads, tell us about the website you are trying to point us to and why we should look at it. Or is this just a link building exercise?

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## Dave A

Alex was dis-missed.

Yet another "social media SEO expert" that doesn't understand the forum medium  :Stick Out Tongue:

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Blurock (25-Sep-12)

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## vieome

This was my design for a t-shirt . 

What you will be saying if you wear the t-shirt that you acknowledge that something is just not right with South Africa. Anyone is free to use the design, in any way shape or form

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wynn (05-Oct-12)

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## Pap_sak

> I understand critics, many of the ideas that are making people money in the world today are ideas that people say would never work. When I was living in England I went to soho china town, and the place is full of chinese restaurants, how does one then open a another chineses restarant in a place full of chinese restaurants and make a sucess. One owner starts a restaurant called Wonkys, the theme of the chinese restuarant is that the waiters and chefs are very rude to clients, the restaurant is famous for that.


Thats funny. Not only did I frequent Wonkys I also got the T shirt! My wife and I still miss their chilli pork chop.

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## vieome

> Thats funny. Not only did I frequent Wonkys I also got the T shirt! My wife and I still miss their chilli pork chop.


 :Cool:   :Cool:  me too and visit to  Intrepid Fox! Pub.

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## Ouman

Here is a business idea free of charge. I just do not have the facilities to make it productively. 

Spinning Exercise equipment that generates electricity. 

Many years ago when we first got TV a friend of mine built a prototype of this and connected it via a car battery and inverter to power his TV. The law in his house became: "No power in battery no watchee TV"  

Many modern urban people spend hours at exercise Running, Cycling, Walking, Rowing. With equipment such as this their physical effort can be put to use.

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## Blurock

> Here is a business idea free of charge. I just do not have the facilities to make it productively. 
> 
> Spinning Exercise equipment that generates electricity. 
> 
> Many years ago when we first got TV a friend of mine built a prototype of this and connected it via a car battery and inverter to power his TV. The law in his house became: "No power in battery no watchee TV"  
> 
> Many modern urban people spend hours at exercise Running, Cycling, Walking, Rowing. With equipment such as this their physical effort can be put to use.


Ouman, are you not watching too many TV ads?  :Whistling:

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## adrianh

> Many modern urban people spend hours at exercise Running, Cycling, Walking, Rowing.


On what planet?

Many urban people spend hours in traffic, drinking, shopping and watching TV

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## Justloadit

An average human who is not fit, can generate about 60watts of electricity an hour through exercise, so it seems that you need about 150w to power your TV and  Mnet decoder, so it seems no TV for you.

If you are super fit, you may generate 150watts for a couple of hours, so you can watch TV  :Smile:

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## Ouman

I try to avoid watching TV ads by recording most of the shows I am really interested in and using the fast forward to Zap the Ads. As a retired marketing man I find the ads today horrible. But then I am not part of the mass market so who am I to comment? 

IRO adrianh's comment: With Virgin Active able to run more than 100 branches and Makro selling lots of Excercise equipment and cycles. And if you drive a bit on a Sunday morning early you will see many cyclists, many of those costing around R30k. If you watch the start of the Comrades, the Two Oceans etc. I am sure you will also agree that just as we have many urban drunken couch potatoes we also have many who try to become and remain fit. The former is not the target market, the latter is. 

IRO Justloadit's comment: So a family of 4 who are reasonably fit can generate about 800Whrs - enough to run the TV and the PVR for an evening!

The point of the idea is to combine the addiction to Exercise Pheromones with Relaxation.

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## adrianh

Interesting, ok, so how are you going to turn the idea into real money?

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## vieome

> Interesting, ok, so how are you going to turn the idea into real money?





> Here is a business idea free of charge. I just do not have the facilities to make it


I think there are many ways to turn the idea into money. With so many Gyms around one could sell products to them, they could use their members to power the lights with men, and save on electricity.

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## adrianh

@vieome - There is a difference between a good idea and a sound business plan.

You must must must watch all the episodes of Dragons Den on Youtube. it is a BBC2 show where entreprenuers have 5 minutes to get funding from 5 millionares. The millionares invest their own cash so they don't mess around. Start at season 1 episode 1. It is absolutely brilliant and it opens one's eyes to the ways investors think.

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## juggenut

Interesting ideas vieome!

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## vieome

> @vieome - There is a difference between a good idea and a sound business plan.
> 
> You must must must watch all the episodes of Dragons Den on Youtube. it is a BBC2 show where entreprenuers have 5 minutes to get funding from 5 millionares. The millionares invest their own cash so they don't mess around. Start at season 1 episode 1. It is absolutely brilliant and it opens one's eyes to the ways investors think.


How does a sound business plan come into the making. One first has to have ideas and then slowly from there, hack away at the idea and see how one can make it work. One has to retain a sense positivity in order for the universal of energy to respond I am sure you believe in that. 

I do watch dragons den on BBC Knowledge, and the money men are not always right. How many start ups approached people like bill gates and he brushed off their ideas, that is why MS got into the search game late. I like to believe in the impossible, I often think 6 impossible things before breakfast.  Dragons Den opens ones eyes to the way Greedy investors think, have a read of some of Paul Grahams work, he is an angel investor(and creator of first online shopping software) and invest in many ideas that people think will never work. So I think it is better for ones brain to see an idea and see how to make it work, then simply just brush it off.

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## adrianh

I am an ideas person and I have 10,000 ideas before breakfast....I have to be able to brush off 99.999999995% of them. The fact that i don't like your idea doesn't mean that it is bad or that it is impossible, it simply means that it doesn't appeal to me or i cannot see my way clear to make money from it.

I agree that the money men are not always right and that the overlook oppertunities. You must remember that the money men are looking after their own interests and their own money and want to invest their money at a reasonable risk to make a huge profit. What i do find good is to learn from the questions that they ask. Yes, a lot of the time the questions are meaningless but of lot of questions and insights are truly valuable.

The best kind of money man to have is a mentor (not some rich ding dong that charges you R1000 an hour but a person who is really enthralled by what you do). The problem that entreprenuers is faced with is not money per se, it is having the appropriate funding when needed to be applied properly. Many entreprenuers think that if they got a huge cash injection that their problems will go away, it doesn't work like that. The way i see mentorship is the same way as I see a parent of a child who wants to become a champion cyclist. When the 3 year old child says that he needs R500,000 and then he would be a champion cyclist that will win The Argus then the parent needs to channel the enthusiasm. You first get him a small bike with training wheels, a suitable outfit and a crash helmet and you lead him around the driveway. You keep on with this mentoring / building / supporting process until he is able to buy his own bike and win his own race. I am lucky to have such a mentor who is willing to pick men up and fix my bike each time I ride into a fence. The most important thing to remember about investment into entreprenuers is that investors not only invest in the idea, they also invest into the individual. No matter how good the idea is, if the entreprenuer does not have the right characterists that appeals to the investor, then no money will be forthcoming. How many of those people who stand before the dragons have absolutely no idea about the realities of taking their products to market, the realities of the numbers, the patents and the issues, yet they have dreamed up a round figure of the the investment that they need.

I am all for ideas, my personal problem is that I simply have to many that I am capable of doing (and being ADD means that I flit from idea to idea without ever taking one idea and wringing all the cash out of it) Too many ideas can be a very very bad thing that distracts one from having a very narrow focus. The only way for me to have that focus is to discard any idea that does not fit into my purposely narrow focus. I do write the really good ones and keep them for later evaluation.

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## vieome

I think we on the same page, and this thread is for the many ideas that people have and that need  "wringing all the cash out of it."  or contributions in how to make it better. It may not be that you or I will ever invest in these ideas, but being a business forum some one might find an idea they like and have the knowledge and know how to make it a success(good for SA). 

I do enjoy Dragons Den and have learnt a lot from it, but one aspect I find lacking in the dragons is that they expect every person who stands before them to be a suit wearing entrepreneur (An entrepreneur is an enterprising individual who builds capital through risk and/or initiative - Entrepreneur is a person who started a new business where there was none before) who is familair with marketing and sales. When in reality most inventor types are nerds, most great idea types are nerds introverts. It is the Dragon who is the Entrepeneur and their biggest problem on the show is that they are looking for someone like themselves to invest in. 

When watching the show I often think what would of happened if Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak came before them with the first apple. 

"how dare you come before me dressed in Jeans and a T-shirt"
" It is useless it will never work, what is wrong with a pen for writing ?"

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## vieome

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/a...-got-rich.html
Interesting

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## adrianh

Agreed.

In Season 1 Episode 1 they turned down a guy who added a laser to a level saying that it will never work.....bad move...

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## Blurock

Opportunity:

In South Africa and the rest of Africa there are still millions of people without sanitation. No toilets or running water. Because lack of sanitation is a health risk, this is a priority project. The problem with water borne sewerage is the lack of water in most parts of Africa. Finding a cost effective and sustainable solution will get you funding from the AU, EU, USA, UNESCO and many other bodies. :Hmmm:

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## Justloadit

Hi Blurock,

There has been a SA patented solution for this for some time now. follow :-
http://www.ecosan.co.za/introduction.html

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## Blurock

> Hi Blurock,
> 
> There has been a SA patented solution for this for some time now. follow :-
> http://www.ecosan.co.za/introduction.html


...still need to get it to the people though. There is no money to pay for it as cANCer has taken everything! :Frown:

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## vieome

Quick Buck   T- Shirt print

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## ians

I have 3 products which I believe would sell.

1 I have been building for a 6 years and selling on a small scale, someone has taken the idea and within a couple of months has already sold 100 items...with a clear profit of over R100 000.

I can see by marketing the product correctly and creating collection points he has taken the market to another level, I have been doing it as a hobby, but the market has grown in recent months and I am being left behind. 

I have a fully equipped workshop with all the machinery paid up and team to manufacture the products, just no marketing team or distributors. The worse part is that many people have suggested that they prefer my product yet my competition is selling his product at a rate of about 10 - 1 at the moment.

I also have a fully equipped electrical construction, power quality and thermal imaging setup, just no marketing strategy or business plan, which has been running for over 22 years, but just never gone anywhere because I made the mistake many companies make, never taken the time to become a businessman.

I am in the process of making some changes, but since I started at the beginning of the month, all I have come to realise is I have a long way to go. My next step is to read Dave's posts of how to move from being a one man operation to where is now. I also believe it is time to start getting out there and socialising more.

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## ians

There is big money in water treatment plants, trust me I did it for many years, just not prepared to pay the fees which come with keeping everyone happy, this could be something I need to look at in the future, paying more bribes to survive. If you cant beat them join them. Look at all the big companies construction companies, paying massive fines for all their skulduggery. 

I was chatting to someone the other day and he was telling how much money they loose in paying benefits, finders fees what ever you want to call it.

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## vieome

> There is big money in water treatment plants, trust me I did it for many years, just not prepared to pay the fees which come with keeping everyone happy, this could be something I need to look at in the future, paying more bribes to survive. If you cant beat them join them. Look at all the big companies construction companies, paying massive fines for all their skulduggery. 
> 
> I was chatting to someone the other day and he was telling how much money they loose in paying benefits, finders fees what ever you want to call it.


 I agree there is money in water treatment , and the amount to be made will only increase in the future as water quality drops due to bad service delivery. The ideal systems would be for domestic water purification i.e reverse osmosis. Most domestic machines at present are retailing at R4500.00 which is a huge rip off and a mis-understanding of the water purification business model. The wholesale price is about $60.00 or R600. The idea is to install the machines for clients cheaper and make money on replacement cartridges.

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## ians

That's the problem in this country, put eco friendly or energy saving and you bend over and collect. 

R60.00 for an LED light or R200 - R1200 for an LED flood light, lets rape the customers while they are stupid enough to pay the price. Then just to add insult the government puts a tax levy on normal lamps.

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## vieome

Problems are good. It is by solving everyday problems that one makes money.  :Smile:

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## adrianh

I'll say this much, the most important thing about coming up with business ideas is the ability to think laterally. I fell butt first into the butter recently by being able to apply a common technology to a very lateral market. The market is totally untapped. There are one or two companies doing the same in the US and that is about it. Applying the technology to the market speeds up the creation of the product x1000. The products are simply to make and can be sold into hundreds of shops and of course on the internet.

What is the bottom line: Read and learn as much as you can about as many topics as you can. Look for connections between the topics and if you are really lucky you will find a connection that will turn into a great business. I connected a predominantly male left brain technology with a predominantly female right brain market.

What I have done is nothing spectacular, it should be obvious to anybody who uses the technology. I can only think that the reason nobody else has climbed into it is that they have not been able to make the lateral connection.

We should allow the right brain to play with thoughts, ideas and concepts, to mix and match and dicover connections. I do not think that one would be able to to connect the dots by using the left brain. Linear thinking is simply not suitable to the creative process.

What is very sad is that education spends all its time on the left brain and neglects the right brain. We are taught that we are clever if we can think linearly and we can spit out answers like computers. This might be useful to an accountant but is not useful to a creative person. How can one ever teach entrepenuership to somebody who is unable to think creatively. 

People who talk about thinking outside of the box have a very serious problem, they fins themselves trapped in a box of linear thinking coupled with specialization. I have no box, I think far and wide because my knowledge stretches far and wide.

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## Dave A

> My next step is to read Dave's posts of how to move from being a one man operation to where is now.


 :Hmmm:  Which reminds me - most of the original series disappeared when I stopped using vBadvanced as the site's CMS. I probably should do something about that.




> What I have done is nothing spectacular, it should be obvious to anybody who uses the technology.


I've found the most effective and important ideas are often like that... near blindingly obvious once you've joined the dots and can actually see them properly for the first time. I don't know how many times I've kicked myself and gone "of course, you idiot - how could you not see that before?"

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## adrianh

The problem with joining the dots is that most people think linearly and see the dots within seperate thought process streams that are insulated from one another. Right brain all access thinking does not have those linear boundries. Kids do this automatically, education trains it out of them. Our education system forces kids into pure linear thought that disables right brain thinking.

Anyhow, thinking outside of the box is total rubbish unless people have a wide knowledge base which reaches far beyond their formal education.

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## vieome

IDEA!

I am not going to think, laterally or linearly on this one. This idea is been floating around in my head for a few seconds and so I will just say it as it comes without really thinking (cause I know sometimes an apple hits you on the head and before you get a chance to think, the word gravity pops in your head).

Start a website called something like the complete internet, or give me your link. Put a simple form on it that people over the world can submit a link to their site on it, and a brief idea of the site, and a catagory. The idea is to create a single site with links to the whole of the internet, I know a huge grand task, but every link that the site collects will add value in that one can have advertising on the site and even perhaps charge a business $1 to add a link. Part of this is to in a sense rid the user of the need for search, can in a sense have their own stumbleapon, where they go a your site with links to many sites. The problem with search is that it is abused by SEO and etc. So that is the basis, this might be a spark for someone in web-design or the other to think on Laterally and linearly in the box that is outside the box.

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## Dave A

> Start a website called something like the complete internet, or give me your link. Put a simple form on it that people over the world can submit a link to their site on it, and a brief idea of the site, and a catagory. The idea is to create a single site with links to the whole of the internet, I know a huge grand task


That's pretty close to the Open Directory Project - which has been pretty dead and broken for years already.

And then there's Open Index - which also seems to have ground to a halt.

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## vieome

> That's pretty close to the Open Directory Project - which has been pretty dead and broken for years already.
> 
> And then there's Open Index - which also seems to have ground to a halt.


Thanks for the Links

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## wynn

Sounds like a 'link farm' to me

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## Jan2D

I realize the thread started out as a dumping ground for ideas other people could pick up and build on. Unfortunately it's mostly impossible to adequately judge the value of an idea without talking to potential clients.

My advice to someone who wants to start a business would be to forget about thinking of the perfect business idea. I'd suggest: find *one* person who will pay you real money to solve a problem they have. That means talking to an individual, understanding their problem, solving the problem in a (preferably) cheap way and getting payed.
Then find another person. Solve problem and get payed. Then another person.

If you're lucky one of two things will eventually happen:
1. you will find one client that pays you enough (or often enough): a whale.
2. you will find enough clients with the same common problems that you can solve: a market.

From there on it's the more common business challenges like cash flow, capabilities, capacity, scaling, marketing etc.

The initial stages of starting a business should be looking for people who are willing to pay you ASAP. It's important to be passionate about their problem, but if they don't want to pay you then the problem isn't a big enough pain for them or they don't think you can solve it in a good way.

So forget about business ideas. Get emails, phone numbers and referrals that lead to face to face meetings.

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Dave A (06-Jul-13), pmbguy (05-Jul-13)

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## vieome

> Problems are good. It is by solving everyday problems that one makes money.


My thought exactly, find a problem first. I guess this thread should rather be about common problems then.

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## pmbguy

Ok, so the problem in this case is that many people have very busy days and dont always have the time to get groceries

An old business idea is to deliver groceries to people. I have seen a few come and go, but it can really work. There is a market for this amongst the upper middle-class and wealthy. 
Negotiate with a big grocer for a good price, have the grocer pack the orders. Have a good return policy with the grocer.  A simple system for charging clients. Use students who have a vehicle to deliver. People can order via sms, call, email and website. Focus marketing on the wealthier suburbs of the bigger city centres. 
Have something special or different about the business, eg. All female staff all of them wear polo riding outfits or something, the crop and all, different and funky. People remember a business name if something in the business stands out. 
Everybody needs food but who has time to get it.

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## Dave A

> Negotiate with a big grocer for a good price, have the grocer pack the orders. Have a good return policy with the grocer.  A simple system for charging clients.


Or a variant that I (my wife, actually) subscribed to years ago - once a week we'd get a basket of *quality* fresh goodies delivered to our door.

The supplier was a farm stall. 
Staples were things like eggs, lettuce, tomatoes, potatoes and a bread of some sort (there were about 4 variants that were supplied on rotation).
Then there'd be a few "surprise" goodies - jams, different types of mushrooms, cheeses.
And a recipe to make best use of some of the week's supplies.

It was pretty cool as it introduced us to some unusual ingredients and recipes that we might not have discovered or tried otherwise, and of course it really helped the wife come up with some variety in our meals without too much heavy thinking and research.

It wasn't cheap, but with all the various benefits, it wasn't that expensive either - fair value for money we thought.

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## adrianh

I think that a lot of people use shopping as an excuse to get out for a bit - that is probably why these ventures don't succeed.

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IanF (07-Jul-13)

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## pmbguy

You are right, people do like to shop. According to psychology it’s a power thing, when people are confronted with so much choice and they themselves get to choose exactly what they want, it provides a sense of power. Perhaps because women don’t share the same societal power that men do, they perhaps seek out other avenues of “power intake” and therefore like shopping more than men. 

I can remember lots of these type businesses that have failed in the past. But I believe that the time available for people to shop is becoming less with time, therefore the market for such a business can only grow in the future

The client chooses from a catalogue with different sections 
Groceries (From one grocer) 
Take away (Mc D, KFC, Steers......as many as possible)
Medication (over the counter, from one pharmacy)
Alcohol (one shop)

The catalogue can have lots of sections depending on whether it is practicle and profitable. Even add hardware, movies and Stationary
(If the client makes a special order from a shop you don’t normally go to, they will pay a premium) 
The business could be marketed as a home delivery and business delivery service. 
Now a business that can deliver multiple items from multiple shops to satisfy many needs will be superior to a business that only delivers groceries. 
I hope your memory is good, because in 10 years there will be big established business all over the place doing exactly what was discussed. At that time I would be requesting a noddy badge and a sexual favour from anybody who disses my idea,  HaHa 

The fact is that you can have a good business idea a good market for it, but you are a bad businessman. Or you are a great businessman, have a great idea, but no market. Or you are a great businessman, there is a market, but your business idea stinks

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## adrianh

Us old men need to go shopping to make sure that all them young & moist "strawberries" that we remember actually do exist!

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wynn (08-Jul-13)

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## pmbguy

> Us old men need to go shopping to make sure that all them young & moist "strawberries" that we remember actually do exist!


Shame  :Frown:

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## vieome

> I think that a lot of people use shopping as an excuse to get out for a bit - that is probably why these ventures don't succeed.



Well for one on this idea you saving people time, that they can use to get for a bit and do something other then shopping.




> I'll say this much, the most important thing about coming up with business ideas is the ability to think laterally.


While it is easy to say any idea wont work, I think it is better to challenge ones lateral thinking concept by trying to see how one can get an idea to work that others say it wont work. 

And as we can see the idea may not work directly but perhaps the idea can be molded and shaped to come up with a new concept that does work.




> Or a variant that I (my wife, actually) subscribed to years ago - once a week we'd get a basket of *quality* fresh goodies delivered to our door.

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## wynn

I have never thought of buying the week's or month's groceries as shopping, buying yes, comparing prices, maybe.
Shopping to me is when you decide to get a new pair of shoes or, clothes or camping equipment, because that is when you shlep from shop to shop looking for something that you like, is suitable or you can afford.
If you bought a new pair of shoes every week it would cease to be shopping.

And yes I agree, a site that allows you to order the groceries, even the hardware online to be delivered at the same price as if you went and bought it yourself, traveling and parking expenses included, that would be something I would look at.
After that going to a supermarket to see that you are not being screwed by the online service prices, now that would be shopping! :Cool:

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## pmbguy

I think the business idea makes more sense when one considers that the delivery service wont totally replace an individuals shopping habits, instead it is a supplementary shopping service for those too busy on a particular day to shop.

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## pmbguy

Sorry, that sounded a bit obvious, but many see this kind of thing as a either-or choice

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## adrianh

Pick and Pay has been doing it for a long time without much success. People like to stroll around the shops looking at, and touching stuff.

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## pmbguy

Correct. But this is how I see it. In future years there will most certainly be a large increase in the decrease of time. As certain as the sun and moon this decrease will be exponential over time. 
To question this type of business based on its current and past failures is irrelevant when one considers the time line intersection of time based on its decrease.  
So the real question regarding this type of business is when? And exactly how?

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## IanF

> Correct. But this is how I see it. In future years there will most certainly be a large increase in the decrease of time. As certain as the sun and moon this decrease will be exponential over time. 
> To question this type of business based on its current and past failures is irrelevant when one considers the time line intersection of time based on its decrease.  
> So the real question regarding this type of business is when? And exactly how?


OK this intrigues me about an exponential decrease in time surely the closer you get to zero the less it is possible to exponentially decrease?

What I have noticed is that this decrease in time is manageable, when customers want something now and you say sure but to get it on their deadline they must collect. 80% say they will wait for normal delivery. The same applies to rush charges when you say it is a 50% rush charge then the normal production time is fine.

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## pmbguy

Oh f@#!
You got me Ian. You making me blush in the middle of traffic.

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## adrianh

I think that people will make time to shop because it takes them away from their daily rut. I think that one should turn the idea on its head and make it easier for people to shop. Rather than taking the shop to the people rather take the people to the shop. Imagine you offer a service where you would pick the ladies and kids and their friends and kids up at their houses, then drop the kids off at the local play place and take the ladies from shopping centre to shopping centre as their hearts desire. The ladies don't have to worry about the kids, the traffic or the parking. You could take the idea very far by creating shopping clubs, you could create tours of great plsces to eat and shop, the ladies could have a breakfast at one shopping centre,  walk around and have lunch at another. You could tie restuarant into the business.

Lets take it a step further, you could have a shopping trip for pregnant ladies, they can go to all the places that they like to go and you could make sure that they are comfortable and safe and you could carry their parcels for them. 

Another idea, what about a trip for ladies with babies, you will pick them up with their prams and stuff.

Then there are those that can't drive due to injury or old people who also need people to carry their parcels.

The bottom line is that people like to get out for a bit even if it is just to walk around the shops, make it easy and enjoyable for them and I am sure that you could profit from it.

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## pmbguy

> I think that people will make time to shop because it takes them away from their daily rut. I think that one should turn the idea on its head and make it easier for people to shop. Rather than taking the shop to the people rather take the people to the shop. Imagine you offer a service where you would pick the ladies and kids and their friends and kids up at their houses, then drop the kids off at the local play place and take the ladies from shopping centre to shopping centre as their hearts desire. The ladies don't have to worry about the kids, the traffic or the parking. You could take the idea very far by creating shopping clubs, you could create tours of great plsces to eat and shop, the ladies could have a breakfast at one shopping centre,  walk around and have lunch at another. You could tie restuarant into the business.
> 
> Lets take it a step further, you could have a shopping trip for pregnant ladies, they can go to all the places that they like to go and you could make sure that they are comfortable and safe and you could carry their parcels for them. 
> 
> Another idea, what about a trip for ladies with babies, you will pick them up with their prams and stuff.
> 
> Then there are those that can't drive due to injury or old people who also need people to carry their parcels.
> 
> The bottom line is that people like to get out for a bit even if it is just to walk around the shops, make it easy and enjoyable for them and I am sure that you could profit from it.


I like the way you think. I find that malls are generally hell when you have a kid. I would love to have a one stop relax mall like one you describe. Having a really good child facility at a mall will bring lots of feet through the door including mine. Here in PMB the malls are more like obstacle courses, you will get fit though. 
Please just have a Proper men’s club inside, oh wait can’t do that, but something similar.  
Personally, I like to touch what I buy in the shop.

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## adrianh

I also like to touch stuff in the shops, thats why I hang around the lingerie department... :Cool:

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wynn (10-Jul-13)

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## vieome



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## Dave A

:Stupid:

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## vieome

> ..


..

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## adrianh

The "I can do it" part is easy.....the "putting in the structure and keeping it in place" is the bit that trips me up.

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## vieome

> 3. Solar Panels
> Provide some form of solar power for homes.
> 
> 4. Inverters
> One can use solar to charge battery and an inverter to power up house, a good future business to invest in.


So the power problems have started and I predict will only get worse.

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## Anthony Martin

I have recently started up a business called Essential Technology Management Services. Its very new, beginning of the year. Our main focus is Generators, inverters and solar aswell as Lightning & surge protection, Rectifiers, Voltage Stabilizers, Harmonic filtration, clean power and renewable energy. At the moment my main focus has been the big business sector but I am definitely looking to branch out to smaller businesses and house holds. Any advice on doing this will be greatly appreciated.

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## Thomas.D

True Entrepenuership is about solving poblems :Zyfingerdance: 

Problems: is electicity, water, racism......could entreprenuership solve that somehow?

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## Thomas.D

I would like to help you with this, could you PM me some more info, then I can get back to you.

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## Blurock

> True Entrepenuership is about solving poblems
> 
> Problems: is electicity, water, racism......could entreprenuership solve that somehow?


Entrepreneurship is seeing an opportunity and making that opportunity work for you. In some extreme cases it may be about solving problems, but mostly it is about creating a better product/service or making life easier for the consumer who pays for the product or service. As example; the cell phone changed how we communicate, just because of the convenience of being able to phone from anywhere. Having you phone in your pocket is convenience.

ATM's changed the way that we bank as the bank is now open 24/7. All successful products are about convenience to the consumer.  :Big Grin:

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## Blurock

> True Entrepenuership is about solving poblems
> 
> Problems: is electicity, water, racism......could entreprenuership solve that somehow?


We have designed a product that allows you to read both your water and electricity consumption in your house. The municipality can read both in their offices. (they can also shut it down) This system solves many problems as it eliminates incorrect manual readings and gives both utility and consumer peace of mind. Billing can now be automated and the convenience of remote reading appeals to both consumer and utility. 

I do not understand the racism part as racism is only found in politics. It is practiced by people who have hidden agendas in their hunger for power. That is why I do not like politicians. In business the colour of everyone's money is the same.

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## Thomas.D

before cellphone you had to find a pay phone, the problem was that people became tired and in an emergency it took quiet some time. Banks were closed early in the day and not open on Sunday's so people struggled to get their money when they needed it hence the ATM.

All businesses that innovate solve problems and those types are started by entrepreneurs (people who see a problem and then solve it all the while making a profit. Just starting a business anyone can do and their are a lot of people starting businesses but they are not all entrepreneur, some are just business people doing business, true entrepreneurs create value, and not just businesses. Or else every shop owner that sells cigarettes and sweets is a entrepreneur or if I see some one selling health products then I also start selling health products cause they making money am I an entrepreneur?

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## Thomas.D

Racism is still a problem and it needs to be solved, it could make someone very rich the only question is how. racism is found in the common household and not in politics. corruption is the word I think you are refering to - hunger for power with a hidden agenda sounds more like corruption.

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## wynn

A large number of small businesses were started because the owner had to keep the wolf from the door after losing his/her job.
The result is that a small % are very successful, some more make a living, some are slaves to their business and loose money and interest slowly, others pack it in when they get another job.
For every one that falls off one end there are a number that climb aboard the other.

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adrianh (07-Sep-15)

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## Blurock

> Racism is still a problem and it needs to be solved, it could make someone very rich the only question is how. racism is found in the common household and not in politics. corruption is the word I think you are refering to - hunger for power with a hidden agenda sounds more like corruption.


I think you may be confusing racism with discrimination. People of the same race discriminate against each other all the time based on religion or culture or financial wealth etc. Do not allow this, or racism to hold you back. If you just concentrate on what you do not have in relation to other people, you will never develop the attributes that you do have. You will always see yourself as an underling, not good enough and will give up before you have even started.

Remember that all people are equal before God. Learn from those that know more than you and follow the example of successful people. Set yourself goals and build on your small daily achievements without looking back. Change your mindset from I don't have and I can't, to I can and I will. Forget about discrimination, just be yourself and be the best that you can be.

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## HR Solutions

> racism is found in the common household and not in politics.


You say racism is not found in politics ! REALLY !!! Which planet are you referring to ?

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## Thomas.D

Well I still stick to my point, THAT RACISM IS NOT FOUND IN POLITICS, it's found in the common household, I did not say politicians don't use it! lack of housing, education, water & sanitation is not found in politics either but is also used by politicians. I wander which planet you might be from?

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## Thomas.D

No :No:  I am not actually confused about this at all. I did not refer to discrimination.. I did refer to Racism. You don't need to preach to me boet. I merely added to the topic of problems that entrepreneurship could solve as I look at entrepreneurship as innovation and coming up with new ideas! 

What are the underlying factors contributing to racism in South Africa and the rest of the world?  :Confused: 

Could it be that we do not fully understand one another and this leads to assumptions?

Could a business that goes and educates people about different cultures and integrates it into their lives such as a camp or something in their own back yard for a few days.

well it was just a suggestion, did not mean to offend anyone, but I guess you can't please everyone, so rather just please yourself!

Well thank you Mr Blurock for the "inspiring reply" but I have to say you have it all wrong, I did not ask for your point of view of life. My life is just okay, lack nothing, covet nothing and live blessed every day. this topic was about Business Ideas, I added my suggestion so live with it! :Yes:

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## Thomas.D

> You say racism is not found in politics ! REALLY !!! Which planet are you referring to ?


Look at every single political party in South Africa, you will then see that they are made up of various races, DA, ANC & EFF to name a few.
"Rather Know What You Say & Say What You Know Or Just Keep Quiet If You Don't Know Anything!"

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## HR Solutions

Wow Thomas - with just 11 posts to your name you are quite arrogant ! 
But just to answer this post of yours ..




> Look at every single political party in South Africa, you will then see that they are made up of various races


This is not racism at all, whether various races or single race ......... but anyway ..... I think I am going to take your very "valid" advice and just keep quite, because you seem to know it all, even though you are already pissing quite a few people off after being a member for only one month.  Clearly you are one of those people that know it all and other people don't know what they are saying.

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## Thomas.D

> Wow Thomas - with just 11 posts to your name you are quite arrogant ! 
> But just to answer this post of yours ..
> 
> 
> 
> This is not racism at all, whether various races or single race ......... but anyway ..... I think I am going to take your very "valid" advice and just keep quite, because you seem to know it all, even though you are already pissing quite a few people off after being a member for only one month.  Clearly you are one of those people that know it all and other people don't know what they are saying.


Well HR Solutions,

I never said it was about racism, you tried to make the point that racism is only in politics and I merely pointed out that political parties are made up of various races, so I doubt whether racism is in politics. Why do you feel to attack me as a person, why not first consider the problem of racism as a possible business opportunity?

You are not getting my point, about :racism, it was one of the problems that could be solved through entrepreneurship, I do not see how this could be seen as being arrogant and I don't see how I could be pissing anyone off by starting a business that can solve the problem of racism, me myself I AM NOT A RACIST & I never accused anyone of being one either, you insulted me first when you attacked me by asking the question: which planet I am from? I do think that my point is valid that racism is not found in politics but in the more common household. 

Thanks for the debate though and your "valid" arguments. 

P.S: I will request your input in my posts from now on, perhaps someone with your experience will help me to piss less people off.

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## HR Solutions

LOL .....clearly you do not read a posting properly either !

Ummm exactly where was I referring to you pissing people off by "starting your own business"?  I was referring to your sarcastic comments !

If you feel "insulted" by being asked which planet you are from ........ too bad ........ you are obviously very young and can't handle a joking question - so seriously get over it.

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## Thomas.D

> LOL .....clearly you do not read a posting properly either !
> 
> Ummm exactly where was I referring to you pissing people off by "starting your own business"?  I was referring to your sarcastic comments !
> 
> If you feel "insulted" by being asked which planet you are from ........ too bad ........ you are obviously very young and can't handle a joking question - so seriously get over it.


Wow, 

Well how do you ask such sarcastic questions as to planets? and then you get annoyed by my response. 

It does not sound as though you read my post properly, I never said that you refered to me pissing people off by "starting your own business".

Perhaps you should read and understand before you reply to a post?

Okay so this forum is for robust debates regarding business and not to belittle anyone, so can we now move on?

Business Ideas please.....

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## HR Solutions

lol ...................

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## Blurock

It's a pity that meaningful debate almost always turns into a childish mudslinging and name calling. SoS. Grow up guys!
The Forum is for open discussion and exchange of ideas. Not everyone has to agree with your views.  :Mad:

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## adrianh

> lol ...................


....hey HR, leave the poor guy be. He already set a new record by making his name tottie in his first 10 posts!

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## Thomas.D

> A large number of small businesses were started because the owner had to keep the wolf from the door after losing his/her job.
> The result is that a small % are very successful, some more make a living, some are slaves to their business and loose money and interest slowly, others pack it in when they get another job.
> For every one that falls off one end there are a number that climb aboard the other.


very true.. You should always follow your passion and talents and start a business that you see yourself doing when money is not coming in fast enough. Now before you get me wrong I am not saying you should stick to something that is not working, but if others are making money out of it, and you are fulfilled doing it then most certainly keep going. All businesses have their up's and down's and it's not always smooth sailing. At times it just a case of getting people with complimentary skills that you are short in to help you.

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## Thomas.D

> It's a pity that meaningful debate almost always turns into a childish mudslinging and name calling. SoS. Grow up guys!
> The Forum is for open discussion and exchange of ideas. Not everyone has to agree with your views.


I agree, 

Please accept my apology Blurock & HR Solutions....I did not mean to come across as arrogant or sarcastic....I hope we can have more meaningful discussions on this forum in the future.

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Blurock (10-Sep-15)

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## Thomas.D

adrianh can you still tye your laces ?

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## adrianh

> adrianh can you still tye your laces ?


Are you 12 years old?

Get lost and stop sending me private snotty remarks.

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## Dave A

> adrianh can you still tye your laces ?


Now *that* is raking over some long dead coals for no apparent reason  :Stick Out Tongue: 

To what does this site owe the dubious honour?

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## Blurock

Let's revive business Ideas.I am sure there are some pretty innovative guys out there and would like to hear from them.

Plastic pollution has been prevalent in the news lately with everything from townships to oceans being polluted by tons of plastic.
I have recently seen an article of guys making bricks from recycled plastic. Also seen park benches and garden tools etc.
In the Eastern Cape and in KZN the first plastic roads are being built. Strips of 1 - 5 km of road will be tested with a new mixture of bitumen and recycled plastic.
So instead of polluting our rivers and dams, we can now spread it on the road!

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## adrianh

> Let's revive business Ideas.I am sure there are some pretty innovative guys out there and would like to hear from them.
> 
> Plastic pollution has been prevalent in the news lately with everything from townships to oceans being polluted by tons of plastic.
> I have recently seen an article of guys making bricks from recycled plastic. Also seen park benches and garden tools etc.
> In the Eastern Cape and in KZN the first plastic roads are being built. Strips of 1 - 5 km of road will be tested with a new mixture of bitumen and recycled plastic.
> So instead of polluting our rivers and dams, we can now spread it on the road!


Recycling plastic is REALLY REALLY difficult. The biggest problem is that not all plastics are the same. Plastics have to be separated before processing. Separating plastic is very difficult because it cannot be done mechanically - it is mostly done by hand. Now the problem gets even bigger because hygiene is crucial when working by hand. We all know that our plastic and other waste is contaminated and one runs the risk of coming into contact with medical waste. Unless waste is properly cleaned and separated at source it is nearly impossible to do (let alone do cost effectively)

I am not knocking the idea of recycling per se, I just think that it it made out to be a panacea which it isn't. The best way to "save the environment" is to limit the over use of hazardous materials at source. Look at how much waste got sent back to the US, Canada and other 1st world countries after being dumped on small countries. The 1st world is totally incapable of recycling its own waste -I watched a documentary where they show that all the carefully separated recycling simply gets dumped into landfills because it is simply too costly and difficult to process.

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## Blurock

> Recycling plastic is REALLY REALLY difficult. The biggest problem is that not all plastics are the same. Plastics have to be separated before processing. Separating plastic is very difficult because it cannot be done mechanically - it is mostly done by hand. Now the problem gets even bigger because hygiene is crucial when working by hand. We all know that our plastic and other waste is contaminated and one runs the risk of coming into contact with medical waste. Unless waste is properly cleaned and separated at source it is nearly impossible to do (let alone do cost effectively)


Agreed, recycling is very costly and cumbersome, but there are actually some guys who have found a solution to recycling plastics. Do they perhaps have a source of 
 "clean: plastic?

The best way to save the environment may be to start eating human flesh as one scientist suggested recently. (Shock & horror!) He did not actually suggest cannibalism but recycling flesh of the deceased. Sounds more like eating "roadkill" to me.  To be honest, reducing the human population will solve 90% of our problems as we are running out of resources, including water and clean air.

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## adrianh

> Agreed, recycling is very costly and cumbersome, but there are actually some guys who have found a solution to recycling plastics. Do they perhaps have a source of 
>  "clean: plastic?
> 
> The best way to save the environment may be to start eating human flesh as one scientist suggested recently. (Shock & horror!) He did not actually suggest cannibalism but recycling flesh of the deceased. Sounds more like eating "roadkill" to me.  To be honest, reducing the human population will solve 90% of our problems as we are running out of resources, including water and clean air.


To me the biggest problem is capitalism / consumerism / consumption / obsolescence. Our economy is driven by continual sales and consumption and thus we manufacture low quality products designed to fail purely to keep our economy going. Cars are a perfect example. The are generally over produced because the seller needs to have them ready on the floor in case a person happens to walk in and purchase the car. The next year new models are produced in the same volumes yet the previous year models remain unsold. The unsold cars are not put on the market at lower prices because that wold damage the resale value of the newly purchased cars. They are shipped to storage facilities to be destroyed.

Another example is light bulbs - one can argue that led bulg use less electricity at the end consumer than incandescent bulbs but those led lamps use up far more resources to manufacture and also do not recycle particularly well. An incandescent bulb is a bit of metal and a bit of glass that recycles very easily. It it a well known fact that incandescent bulbs can be manufactured to last 100 years yet the practice was stopped so as to promote consumerism. 

I cannot think of any product today that is value for money - Every single consumer product manufactured today is designed to fail within a fairly short time. The washing machine fails after 3 years, the geyser blows up after 5 years, the cell phone is replaced every 2 years etc. The old Kirby vacuum cleaner manufactured in 1950 still works - the new hoover falls apart in a year.

Shoes - my Hi-Tec boots cost R700 and fail at exactly the same place year after year.

Everybody always blame the Chinese for poor products but the problem goes far deeper than low quality knock-offs. The problem is that the 1st world is driven by consumption and that consumption is at the expense of the 3rd world.

Recycling is really a farce to make the 1st world consumer feel a little better about the continual unnecessary waste of resources. It doesn't work in practice on the scale that it needs to to make a real difference.

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## Blurock

The most successful entrepreneurs in this world have looked at problems and have found solutions which has made them very rich.
We can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.
Putting ideas into practice is a skill that not all of us have, unfortunately.

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## adrianh

> The most successful entrepreneurs in this world have looked at problems and have found solutions which has made them very rich.
> We can choose to be part of the problem or part of the solution.
> Putting ideas into practice is a skill that not all of us have, unfortunately.


Clichés do not solve real world problems.

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## adrianh

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-htnUTN4mH0

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## Blurock

> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-htnUTN4mH0


Well there you have it, some people are getting rich from recycling trash. Children, who have never had an opportunity, are being educated from the proceeds of trash recycling. However, the problem is still too many people generating too much trash! 

The reality is that we have not yet found effective ways of recycling. It is a dirty business and sorting through tons of trash is cumbersome. Therefore sorting trash at source, which some 1st world countries are doing, may be the first step. E.g. putting cans and glass in separate recycling containers. Plastic is more difficult due to the many different types and combinations of plastic.

There are some companies who got it right and they are the pioneers who are leading the way. Just as a gold mine have to move millions of tone of ore before producing a few ounces of gold. Then there are the ones who just bury their waste in a landfill for future generations to deal with it.

I am exited by new innovative developments in solar power, wind power and also recycling. Consider all the new technologies that's been developed in the last 20 - 30 years; cell phones, 3D printing, photo copiers, solar geysers, heart transplants etc etc - too many to mention. Now the question is How do we reduce the population generating all the trash that is killing the planet?

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## adrianh

> Now the question is How do we reduce the population generating all the trash that is killing the planet?


hmmm.... me thinketh that a certain super power s doing that quite effectively across the middle east. 

The only problem is that they are doing it to take the oil so that they can consume more and create more trash.


Solar power, wind power and all that stuff is not new technology nor is it particularly efficient when you consider energy generation from cradle to grave i.e. the infrastructure required to manufacture, transport, install, use and dispose of those technologies. LED lights and fluorescent lights may use less power at the end user but cradle to grave they are a disaster. 


The best solution remains to changes our economic model so as to reduce unnecessary consumption caused by obsolescent manufacturing and wasteful usage of resources.

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## adrianh

I have to clarify something. I'm not against recycling, technology, innovation and I am not trying to be obtuse. I think that it is great that people try to recycle and I also think that there is money to be made through recycling. My sense is just that we are trying to treat a serious side effect of a far greater problem which is consumerism. We need to change our value systems to find greater reward in non-consumerism (The right words escape me) - Maybe I'm just getting old - I prefer to spend my days with my kids in a fairly crappy house (by my own standards) than working myself to death in a dead end job to buy stuff that I don't really need. I will rather buy a rickety chair built by an old man than buy the latest crappy R20k lounge suite on credit.

Our dump is about 3km from the house. They are very serious about recycling so we make a point of separating our trash and recycling what we can. I generate a look of wood waste (due to the lasers), plastics, metal etc (due to the CNC) so it makes sense to do our bit. 

Maybe I'm kinda idealistic because I really dislike marketing / advertising and the manner in which people are manipulated into buying stuff that they don't need and on top of that getting screwed over by the fine print. For me the only way to deal with it is to avoid it as far as I can (so that I don't get manipulated into buying the very same silly nonsense) - Like I said - maybe I'm just getting old and totally blunted to the excitement of getting the latest iPhone on a R2k a month contract....

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## Blurock

I totally agree; consumerism is killing our planet. When I grew up, one bought quality items that could last for years. Heirlooms were passed on from generation to generation. We even wore hand-me-down clothes. Today we have a throwaway society where nothing lasts for longer than you can eat a takeaway and drop your rubbish in the street.
The problem: too many people, too little resources.

P.S. I have joined the "bunny huggers" as I have realized that we have to save this planet - it's the only one with chocolate!!

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## adrianh

> P.S. I have joined the "bunny huggers" as I have realized that we have to save this planet - it's the only one with chocolate!!


I agree about the chocolate - I spend my day designing and manufacturing food safe molds :-)

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## Dave A

Part of the problem is the typical plastic user has no idea what they're supposed to do when it comes to prepping plastic for recycling, be it washing, or separating different plastic types and placing in different bins. In my neighbourhood we're told to put paper and plastic into the same bag. The assumption is this will be separated in due course and recycled. But is that actually happening? And could the program be more effective.

As long as the end user doesn't know what to do, it is useless to talk about separating different plastics at source (consumer) back to the recycling plant.

All plastics should be marked at manufacture in a manner that guides the consumer as to what group of recyclables it falls into - or even that it is not recyclable.

I share the frustration expressed above about built-in obsolescence and product failure. To this I would add the multiplier of product packaging, which is perhaps generating as much waste as the product it contains.

The product needs more packaging to protect it during shipping because it is fragile to start with (even when it shouldn't be). This fragility also causes the product to have a shorter lifespan. So more regular replacement... More waste more often.

One example that comes to mind at this time of night - light switch megs. They used to last decades. Nowadays many modern makes will not survive one slightly heavy handed incident.

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## Blurock

The drive for maximizing profits leads to low quality goods and the consumer is stupid enough to fall for it. We live in a throw away era where people's value systems have changed. Consumerism is driven by marketing and irresponsible drives for profitability. We are led to believe that it is not cool to own things, but better to just use it and throw it away. Don't own a house, rent it. Use Uber, buy takeaways. Don't by records or CD's, just stream it. Basically, people no longer want to take responsibility for owning and caring for anything. (I still have all my old LP's which have pictures and information about the artists, some with lyrics of the songs. The excitement of paging through the shelves at the record shop, listening to new releases, the sound, the smell, the vibe is something that present generations are missing out on.) 

The packaging for this throw-away consumerism is clogging our rivers and oceans. Fortunately there are some who have seen an opportunity in this and are making packaging from banana leaves, sugar cane or paper compounds. It is interesting to note that throughout history, opportunity comes in times of the worst turmoil. All we need to do is to be alert to identify these opportunities and to find solutions for other people's problems or to add convenience to existing products or systems.

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## JpSmith1

I would love to get together with some business professionals that are open to sitting in on a discussion with a unique group of business men and woman looking at how we can do things better in the current economy and diversify our options and get ahead... From the comments and posts I have read my associates and I would ceratinly love anyone who is open to come and sit in on one of our discussions

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## adrianh

Product packaging....don't get me started. We purchased a new washing machine from Game a couple of months ago (after the last one we purchased from them a couple of years ago fell apart...but I digress) The smart new silver Defy machine was delivered very late in the afternoon and the delivery guys went off because i had to leave. A couple of hours later I get to remove all the packaging only to find that the machine has a massive dent on the side. I phoned Game the following day and they were very apologetic offering me a discount or even an upgrade for free. I turned both offers down and had them send me a new one. About a week later the geyser sprung a leak and I refuse point blank to pay R 8,000 to have it replaced. I ordered a new one from our local supplier and they delivered it a couple of days later ....yes you guessed it... with a massive dent (I got wise and removed the packaging before the delivery drivers left so they got to take it back with them. They eventually replaced the geyser a couple of days later and I had it fitted for about R 1,000.

So, even with all the packaging the products still get smashed up.

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## Blurock

> I would love to get together with some business professionals that are open to sitting in on a discussion with a unique group of business men and woman looking at how we can do things better in the current economy and diversify our options and get ahead... From the comments and posts I have read my associates and I would ceratinly love anyone who is open to come and sit in on one of our discussions


Collaboration is always a good idea and in my experience getting people from different backgrounds to talk always generates something positive. 
The only problem is distance and getting people from all over the country to talk is not always practical.

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## ians

I was chating to a tree fella a while back... he was telling me it is too expensive for him to give his staff vehicles ...insurance ...repairs cost etc just get out of control... so uber it is... he moves the staff from site to site using uber

I got to thinking why arent we doing a similar thing in the trade ...how often do you see vehicles parked on site day after day after day ... so some might say but we need our tools ... i had a customer who just couldnt get his head around letting me make a little money out of the projects we worked on ... he would squeal when he had to pay me R25 k for my labour... on a million rand project ...it went from me doing the quotes ...supplying the material ...driving to site ...booking into accommodation.

down to him collecting the tender document ...dropping off at my office ...collecting once it was prepared... to him supplying the materials for the site ... his mechanic would pick me up and hook up my trailer ...to even providing accomadation (which sometimes was a foam mattress on site with a bucket hanging from a tree for a shower... what a sucker i was... he cannot understand why i told him to stick his work were it fits best...not before he made a few million. 

back to trademen and vehicles... those of you who work like i do ...how long do you waste driving to the wholesaler to collect stuff stand around waiting to be served then by the time you get back to site you have wasted 2 hours... i am thinking i should get a driver ...set up a few trailers (which you can move right onto the site where you are working) the van will have afew odds and sods which are not generally used but sometimes required ... the drive rwill be on standby all the time ... in fact a few contractors should get together and have a2 vehicles for example running all day long ...you pay per km you use the vehicle ...just like uber. .. or even better you have your own uber teams which specialise in tradesmen mobility...so you are not making uber rich but your own group of companies using the vehicles.

it is possible i know because i have setup a trailer in the past and worked too far to just have to drive to buy or collect stuff

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## Blurock

> ... in fact a few contractors should get together and have a2 vehicles for example running all day long ...you pay per km you use the vehicle ...just like uber. .. or even better you have your own uber teams which specialise in tradesmen mobility...so you are not making uber rich but your own group of companies using the vehicles.


Very good idea Ian! I have found that collaboration between companies where everyone is prepared to share resources and information sometimes works better than a partnership. Each have their own business and account, but can pass on overflow business and share resources. I have even seen farmers sharing tractors and harvesters to good effect.

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## adrianh

> I was chating to a tree fella a while back... he was telling me it is too expensive for him to give his staff vehicles ...insurance ...repairs cost etc just get out of control... so uber it is... he moves the staff from site to site using uber
> 
> I got to thinking why arent we doing a similar thing in the trade ...how often do you see vehicles parked on site day after day after day ... so some might say but we need our tools ... i had a customer who just couldnt get his head around letting me make a little money out of the projects we worked on ... he would squeal when he had to pay me R25 k for my labour... on a million rand project ...it went from me doing the quotes ...supplying the material ...driving to site ...booking into accommodation.
> 
> down to him collecting the tender document ...dropping off at my office ...collecting once it was prepared... to him supplying the materials for the site ... his mechanic would pick me up and hook up my trailer ...to even providing accomadation (which sometimes was a foam mattress on site with a bucket hanging from a tree for a shower... what a sucker i was... he cannot understand why i told him to stick his work were it fits best...not before he made a few million. 
> 
> back to trademen and vehicles... those of you who work like i do ...how long do you waste driving to the wholesaler to collect stuff stand around waiting to be served then by the time you get back to site you have wasted 2 hours... i am thinking i should get a driver ...set up a few trailers (which you can move right onto the site where you are working) the van will have afew odds and sods which are not generally used but sometimes required ... the drive rwill be on standby all the time ... in fact a few contractors should get together and have a2 vehicles for example running all day long ...you pay per km you use the vehicle ...just like uber. .. or even better you have your own uber teams which specialise in tradesmen mobility...so you are not making uber rich but your own group of companies using the vehicles.
> 
> it is possible i know because i have setup a trailer in the past and worked too far to just have to drive to buy or collect stuff


I am joining forces with 2 companies who already share resources. They currently share 2 CNC multi-axis lathes, 2 x 4 xis CNC mills, a flatbed CNC router, a manual lather and a nice big manual mill. Of course they also share all the workshop equipment and hand tools. I am going to be putting my 150w laser and my small Arburg plastic injection molding machine in there . I might add the Zinc spin casting equipment as well. The bottom line is that the only way for people to profit from expensive equipment (cars and trucks and stuff as well)  is to share resources. I spent many hours this weekend working on their lathe and they did some work on my laser on Friday. If I didn't have access to their lathe I would have had to either outsource the work (at a cost) of buy a machine for R27k (which doesn't make sense for the odd turning jobs that I do) Another wonderful (let's call it  - 'side effect") of sharing resources is that one shares knowledge with like-minded people. It has taken me many many years to learn that a business cannot operate as an island trying to do everything in-house - that said, it also doesn't make sense to outsource everything - this is the best of all worlds because the skills and resources are close at hand yet not so far that one cannot maintain some degree of control.

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Blurock (23-Sep-19)

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## kidd

It was outlawed due to the potential threat of harm to the hijacker/robber. :Batman: [/QUOTE]

like the hijacker/robber will show you Marcy

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## Blurock

The latest business I came across is when someone approached me to draw up a business plan for a private cemetery. Yes, I also had a question mark until I did some research. 
Private cemeteries is a very large industry ($20 billion) and pretty much thriving in all parts of the world especially in developed countries such as United States of America, Canada, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Australia and Italy et al. Statistics has it that in the USA alone, there are about 7,112 licensed cemetery services companies, employing about 33,518 people.
There are already some private cemeteries in South Africa, charging anything from R3 000 tp R30 000 and more, depending on the type of grave and service.

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## Blurock

Kouga has officially completed phase one of Africa's first eco-friendly road!

For every kilometre of eco-friendly road constructed 1.5 tons of waste plastic, the equivalent of 1.8 million plastic bags, will be used.

🇿🇦 Forward-thinking
🛠 Innovative
🚀 Embracing change

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## adrianh

Watch this and see how bizarre packaging can be...

https://www.boredpanda.com/unnecessary-packaging/

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## Blurock

> Watch this and see how bizarre packaging can be...
> 
> https://www.boredpanda.com/unnecessary-packaging/


Exactly! Many companies use fancy packaging as part of their marketing or "image", but they do go overboard and end up being irresponsible.

It reminds me of the dog food company who launched a new product with fancy packaging.
The product flew off the shelves for the first two weeks and they had to increase production to keep up.
But then it all stopped. No sales! Why?

The dogs did not like the new dog food!  :Slap:  

(Nobody bothered to ask the dogs what they wanted)

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## Blurock

Another "plastic" road!
There is another one at Shishalanga's Cliffdale depot in KZN.
On the 10th Sept officials gathered to witness the company's road surface trial. They have improved on an international formula with at least 6% recycled plastic content. 

This is an outstanding achievement by a South African company! :Applaud:

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## adrianh

> The dogs did not like the new dog food!  
> 
> (Nobody bothered to ask the dogs what they wanted)


We have 9 cats so we go though a loooooooooot of cat food. I find it interesting how the packaging and flavors are aimed at us humans - I think that most of the cat food smells really bad and probably doesn't taste anything like the advertised flavors....
If only the cats could speak :-)

It also reminds me of a Garfield cartoon I saw years ago - Garfield was complaining that the "Doggy biscuits" don't taste like "Doggy" at all.

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## ians

> Watch this and see how bizarre packaging can be...
> 
> https://www.boredpanda.com/unnecessary-packaging/


I might be way off the mark...my thought is that China for example are smart in the way they dump their waste... in fact they are so smart ...they get you to buy their waste in the form of a highly toxic plastic item (which is not tested) ...which only lasts a short period of time ...in fact the time frame is irrelevant ...so long as you are left with the responsibility of disposing of the item.

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## ians

> Exactly! Many companies use fancy packaging as part of their marketing or "image", but they do go overboard and end up being irresponsible.
> 
> It reminds me of the dog food company who launched a new product with fancy packaging.
> The product flew off the shelves for the first two weeks and they had to increase production to keep up.
> But then it all stopped. No sales! Why?
> 
> The dogs did not like the new dog food!  
> 
> (Nobody bothered to ask the dogs what they wanted)


The best way to check if what you are giving your animal is good or bad... the smells they drop while spending quality time in the house or the aftermath on the grass.

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## Blurock

> I might be way off the mark...my thought is that China for example are smart in the way they dump their waste... in fact they are so smart ...they get you to buy their waste in the form of a highly toxic plastic item (which is not tested) ...which only lasts a short period of time ...in fact the time frame is irrelevant ...so long as you are left with the responsibility of disposing of the item.


Our products are manufactured from virgin material only, but we are competing against cheap imports using recycled material. Of course there is a huge difference between the safety and lifetime of these products, but consumers are totally ignorant and buy on price only.

It is important, but not always possible to check the origin of goods. I have seen reports of small plastic particles in rice or sweets. As a bachelor I lived on cheese, bully beef and whatever I mixed with it. After having seen how certain foodstuffs are made, I will never touch a polony or bully beef again. :No:

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## ians

Spending a chilled Saturday morning considering ...what next... Electric cars.

Well it seems electric cars are the way forward ...with that comes infrastructure.

Looks like i found my next venture... for the next 30 years... by then i will be 80 and ready for the furnace.

Solar power has been around for a while... many buildings are already covered in panels and many more will be covered in the near  future... it seems with solar power comes a new tariff ... already in the pipeline or in some cases already implemented... I keep hearing this new phrase "industrialization tariff" a fancy word for a tax you gona be paying on solar/ self generated power ... you will be given 60 or 6000 amps and charged for that amount of power supplied not consumed... I suppose they have to start considering how they will generate revenue from you when all the power stations are sitting idle... you would think it would be encouraged ...but it isnt because someone is gona loose a lot of revenue... i mean the entire drag net ...coal suppliers ... transport etc etc. 

Think about...at the rate technology is progressing... us old fools are getting left behind faster than we can think... looking at the big picture ...it requires huge infrastructure... until someone creates a solar panel with the capacity to run and charge the vehicle as it moves ...electric cars will require power....charge stations etc etc. solar power is going to be the ideal way to power these vehicles... people with solar panels are going to be fighting for the sunny spot rather than the shading parking lot. 

I have noticed an almost negative approach to solar power because people are concerned about this "industrialized tariff" ...but in reality ...lets face it ...solar panels are gona be the way forward ... just like electric cars... building infrastructure to charge and store batteries is gona be massive... now is a good time to be in this industry.

Thank goodness i am already in the electrical industry... i am gona start focusing my energy on solar and electric cars etc... start learning everything i need to know about solar power installations ....where to source battery components to build battery banks... inverters grid tie and hybrid... and everything else related to it.

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## adrianh

I personally think that electric cars are a big joke (especially in this country). Imagine all our cars running on electricity supplied by ESKOM......

Lugging 500kg of Lithium around is also completely ridiculous - The stuff is downright dangerous and firefighters don't know what to do when those battery catch fire and burn for hours on end.

Electric cars are no different to CFL and led lighting - its just an excuse to create another new replacement market of obsolescent products that really don't have much value when one looks at them on a cradle to grave basis. All that they do is shift the energy used to the manufacturer and thus the consumer is duped into believing that this "new" technology is the answer to the world's problems. 

The bottom line is that the problem with transportation lies in our notion that each and every person on this planet need 1 ton of "new" technology to lug them around.....unless we move to remote offices and mass transportation we are just going around in circles feeding the obsolescent wasteful economy of "new tech is better"

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## Dave A

> it seems with solar power comes a new tariff ... already in the pipeline or in some cases already implemented... I keep hearing this new phrase "industrialization tariff" a fancy word for a tax you gona be paying on solar/ self generated power ... you will be given 60 or 6000 amps and charged for that amount of power supplied not consumed... I suppose they have to start considering how they will generate revenue from you when all the power stations are sitting idle... you would think it would be encouraged ...but it isnt because someone is gona loose a lot of revenue... i mean the entire drag net ...coal suppliers ... transport etc etc.


Indeed, you would think it would be encouraged. And if you want to know why, the answer is Eskom debt. R450 billion of it and climbing...

We are the only country in the world that financially discourages embedded PV generation. In Durban the infrastructure availability fee for a single phase residence if I put in rooftop PV at my house is higher than my current electricity bill! It is insanity. The only financially viable installations in Durban at the moment are 3 phase installations which pull a large load... So I'll put in solar for my geyser at my house (which doesn't attract a punitive tariff (yet)) and stop there at the moment.

And yes, Eskom is our greatest obstacle to widespread electric car adoption. There is absolutely no way that we have the required capacity from the existing grid, even mindful of the development plan, for a rapid switch from fossil fuel fired engines to electric for our national automobile fleet.

The significance of the Eskom financial disaster cannot be overstated.

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## ians

I am busy with a project (cant talk too much about it...due t privacy consent etc ) what i can tell you is people sure know how to milk the tax and rate payer.

Do the maths ...if you have a 3000 amp power supply  from a transformer... the estimate done by the electrical consulting firm ...then they add in 2000 amps of solar power... at peak... but the max load consumed by all your tenants is 350 amps during peaks hours... what would the return on invest be? ... Then offer a solution... the solution is to upgrade the power to the tenants who dont require the additional power but you can make another R10 mil in revenue installing an upgraded system... just because nobody is auditing your services.

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## ians

> I personally think that electric cars are a big joke (especially in this country). Imagine all our cars running on electricity supplied by ESKOM......
> 
> Lugging 500kg of Lithium around is also completely ridiculous - The stuff is downright dangerous and firefighters don't know what to do when those battery catch fire and burn for hours on end.
> 
> Electric cars are no different to CFL and led lighting - its just an excuse to create another new replacement market of obsolescent products that really don't have much value when one looks at them on a cradle to grave basis. All that they do is shift the energy used to the manufacturer and thus the consumer is duped into believing that this "new" technology is the answer to the world's problems. 
> 
> The bottom line is that the problem with transportation lies in our notion that each and every person on this planet need 1 ton of "new" technology to lug them around.....unless we move to remote offices and mass transportation we are just going around in circles feeding the obsolescent wasteful economy of "new tech is better"


I dont agree... electric cars are already here... the catch is the cost ... just like LED TVs ...they were so expensive only the rich and famous could afford them... i own 2 LED TV's and 4 monitors ...soon to be upgraded to one in each room of the house...because they have become so affordable... (free if the truck stops long enough for it be looted) 

I take it you dont follow DIY electric cars etc on youtube... the reality is that those old medical batteries which were being dumped after  period of time ...where a huge disposal issue... since the DIY revolution... those packs are now on a waiting list... people paying upfront for them to secure the next batch... I am even considering getting a spot weld to link batteries and building battery banks in my workshop... you can buy plastic modules to link which dont require a spot welder... anyway my point... it is already happening.

A couple years ago the 1650 battery were the one to get ...now you can get batteries which look like a flat foil pack... which is being used to install in the chassis of the car... take your old man blinkers off and see what the future holds... i can see parking bays having a section of the floor being the non contact charge station ...so you drive in ...tickets and boom will be a thing of the past ... you will park in a bay which will top up your power and debted from your account... as they mention ...these cars will be online 24/7 ..there will no keys...the car will detect your presence and allow you to drive it ...in fact i dont even think people will own a cars. 

Us old folk need to get out more and take not of what is happening around us... another example is cctv ...home automation etc ... every man and his dog has cctv and home automation... why because it has become affordable.

Eskom will never recover from the debt ...it will get milked for as long as the people throw many at it ...eventually it will be replaced by a private institution... just like telkom... it was a sinking ship ... telkom land lines and adsl are already being phased out completely ... the new super powers have installed new fibre networks in the majority of SA... paying their dues for now...watch carefully what happens in the future.

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## ians

> Indeed, you would think it would be encouraged. And if you want to know why, the answer is Eskom debt. R450 billion of it and climbing...
> 
> We are the only country in the world that financially discourages embedded PV generation. In Durban the infrastructure availability fee for a single phase residence if I put in rooftop PV at my house is higher than my current electricity bill! It is insanity. The only financially viable installations in Durban at the moment are 3 phase installations which pull a large load... So I'll put in solar for my geyser at my house (which doesn't attract a punitive tariff (yet)) and stop there at the moment.
> 
> And yes, Eskom is our greatest obstacle to widespread electric car adoption. There is absolutely no way that we have the required capacity from the existing grid, even mindful of the development plan, for a rapid switch from fossil fuel fired engines to electric for our national automobile fleet.
> 
> The significance of the Eskom financial disaster cannot be overstated.


I agree with regards to the PV generation... they cant afford to let us go solar... think about it ...back when load shedding started ...the thought of having to invest in a generator was just too expensive ...load shedding came into affect ... within days we were unloading R100 000 generators by the dozen... to add salt to the wound ...generator prices doubled and some withing a days... we couldnt even bring them in fast enough to keep up with the demand... a lot of people lost a lot of many back then... we had container loads of generators sitting in the harbour waiting  to be cleared suddenly the load stopped ...just like that ... thank goodness it was other peoples money ... eskom cannot afford to allow us to go solar ...The only thing holding people back from covering their roof in solar is the "industrialization tarriff".

A few things with regards to solar 

Covering your roof ... saves you having to fill it with thermal insulation...creating a cooler roof space. 

Use the solar panels in place of an awning ...now you have a car port which produces electricity. 

Get smart and adjust your power requirements :

Simple things like running the pool pump during peak sun period...instead of at night.

make your fridge freezer smart and turn the temp cooler during peak sunny period and even switch it off at night... if you dont open the door during the night it should stay cool.

there are so many ways to make use of the energy rather than wasting it on a grid tie system which has no benefit/ROI.

It we werent such tight a$$es ...we would get smart and share our power ...ie get one person to install units go off grid which would result in no tarrif... and share it with the houses on either side ...then they offer electricity at night... everyone wins... but unfortunately we are such a tight a$$ bunch... too worried someone might get more than someone else.


I dont agree... solar power could ease the grid in a short period of time... it is just not in their best interest (financially) for us to ease the load on the grid.

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## ians

> We are the only country in the world that financially discourages embedded PV generation. In Durban the infrastructure availability fee for a single phase residence if I put in rooftop PV at my house is higher than my current electricity bill! It is insanity. The only financially viable installations in Durban at the moment are 3 phase installations which pull a large load... So I'll put in solar for my geyser at my house (which doesn't attract a punitive tariff (yet)) and stop there at the moment.



http://www.durban.gov.za/City_Servic...uidelines.aspx

It seems you only need to register your system with the municipality if you are connecting it to the mains power.

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## Derlyn

> make your fridge freezer smart and turn the temp cooler during peak sunny period and even switch it off at night... if you dont open the door during the night it should stay cool.


Another easy way to make your fridge and freezer more efficient is to fill your fridge as much as possible with bottles of water.

A full fridge uses less power than an empty one.  ( less volume of air needing to be cooled )

The cold water bottles also help to keep the inside cool during extended periods of power outages.


Derek

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adrianh (10-Nov-19)

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## adrianh

> Another easy way to make your fridge and freezer more efficient is to fill your fridge as much as possible with bottles of water.
> 
> A full fridge uses less power than an empty one.  ( less volume of air needing to be cooled )
> 
> The cold water bottles also help to keep the inside cool during extended periods of power outages.
> 
> 
> Derek


Fill the fridge with beer....so that the wife can save money :-)

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## Derlyn

> Fill the fridge with beer....so that the wife can save money :-)


Brilliant idea.  Thanks for that, Brother.  :Thumbup:  :Applaud:  :Applaud: 

Derek

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## Dave A

> http://www.durban.gov.za/City_Servic...uidelines.aspx
> 
> It seems you only need to register your system with the municipality if you are connecting it to the mains power.


You need to look at the tariff card -



I see they're still messing around with the rate. The last time I looked, the fee structure was a little different.
But even with this one, a 10kVA system is going to come with a R710.90 + VAT = R817.54 overhead.

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## ians

I thought i would phone Durban electricity department and find out more about the requirements for solar power... tarrifs etc.

Let me just say this... it would be easier to install the panels ...then wait till they come around to enquire about the panels installed.

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## adrianh

> I dont agree... electric cars are already here... the catch is the cost ... just like LED TVs ...they were so expensive only the rich and famous could afford them... i own 2 LED TV's and 4 monitors ...soon to be upgraded to one in each room of the house...because they have become so affordable... (free if the truck stops long enough for it be looted) 
> 
> I take it you dont follow DIY electric cars etc on youtube... the reality is that those old medical batteries which were being dumped after  period of time ...where a huge disposal issue... since the DIY revolution... those packs are now on a waiting list... people paying upfront for them to secure the next batch... I am even considering getting a spot weld to link batteries and building battery banks in my workshop... you can buy plastic modules to link which dont require a spot welder... anyway my point... it is already happening.
> 
> A couple years ago the 1650 battery were the one to get ...now you can get batteries which look like a flat foil pack... which is being used to install in the chassis of the car... take your old man blinkers off and see what the future holds... i can see parking bays having a section of the floor being the non contact charge station ...so you drive in ...tickets and boom will be a thing of the past ... you will park in a bay which will top up your power and debted from your account... as they mention ...these cars will be online 24/7 ..there will no keys...the car will detect your presence and allow you to drive it ...in fact i dont even think people will own a cars. 
> 
> Us old folk need to get out more and take not of what is happening around us... another example is cctv ...home automation etc ... every man and his dog has cctv and home automation... why because it has become affordable.
> 
> Eskom will never recover from the debt ...it will get milked for as long as the people throw many at it ...eventually it will be replaced by a private institution... just like telkom... it was a sinking ship ... telkom land lines and adsl are already being phased out completely ... the new super powers have installed new fibre networks in the majority of SA... paying their dues for now...watch carefully what happens in the future.

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## Blurock

What's the use of having an electric car if there is no pestcom (electricity) to recharge it? Should we now start looking further into the future? Pedal power?

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## adrianh

> What's the use of having an electric car if there is no pestcom (electricity) to recharge it? Should we now start looking further into the future? Pedal power?


I think that electric cars are a total farce. It is simply a total waste to cart a ton of Lithium around to shift a 100kg of human from one place to another. Proper public transport and a serious re-think of society is what is needed. Kibbutzs are the correct answer to the bulk of the wastage but society has been engineered to hide in their own totally independent little enclaves. Consumerism driven by obsolescent design will not allow people to share resources.

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