# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  A few questions about the COVID mRNA vaccines

## We_Know

I am getting the jab soon but I have a few questions that I would like some clarity on.
1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
3) How does the mRNA vaccine spread throughout the body?

1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
This is a potential long term issue whereby new variants can induce anti-body dependent enhancement and it can be fatal. This was actually observed in previous mRNA vaccines and in some cases this can only be seen 18-24 months after the initial vaccination. There is a bit of uncertainty about this issue for me.

2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
I think the answer is a simple yes. The reason being is that the vaccine is non-sterilizing. This means that vaccinated people can and do get infected (the vaccine reduces the severity) and therefore vaccinated people remain a reservoir for the virus. Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people thus provide selective pressure for the virus to produce new variants. However, vaccinated people will drive the evolution of variants that are less susceptible to antibodies targeting the spike protein. It will be interesting to see the spread of the lambda variant as it seems to be resistant to the vaccines. Now if this is the case then it seems to me that we will need booster shots for each resistant variant.

3) How does the mRNA vaccine spread throughout the body?
I understand that the vaccine is injected into muscles cells (usually the arm) and that the vaccine enters muscles cells to start producing the spike protein. This elicits an immune response which in turn helps provide immunity against the spike protein. Part of the process is the expression of the spike protein on the surface of the cells where the mRNA was injected. Now the spike protein itself can cause local blood clots to form and this is fine at the site of injection (e.g. sore arm). My question is does the vaccine spread to other parts of the body to cause spike protein production there? Has this been quantified? Is this dependent on how the vaccine is injected (e.g. how many arterioles and venules are nicked during the process?)? I especially want to know how much of the vaccine gets to the pulmonary capillaries to induce spike protein production there. This reason for this is that blood clot formation in these capillaries can have long term negative effects that will only be picked up in 2 to 3 years. The most important one is increased pulmonary resistance (blood flow resistance) which can cause right ventricular hypertrophy and ultimately heart failure. This is not something that can be picked easily (usually chest x-rays, but who goes for them regularly?)

If this is an issue then regular boosters can increase the chances of this happening. 

I hope these are all just extremely minor and unlikely issues but I would still like to have a little more clarity on these issues.

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## adrianh

This is a general chit chat forum - There are no scientists here.

All that you are going to get is our 20 cents worth which is going to result in a loads of opposing non-scientific opinions.

You are better off posing these questions in a suitable forum on Reddit where there might be real scientists at hand.

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## Derlyn

> I am getting the jab soon but I have a few questions that I would like some clarity on.
> 1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
> 2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
> 3) How does the mRNA vaccine spread throughout the body?
> 
> 1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
> This is a potential long term issue whereby new variants can induce anti-body dependent enhancement and it can be fatal. This was actually observed in previous mRNA vaccines and in some cases this can only be seen 18-24 months after the initial vaccination. There is a bit of uncertainty about this issue for me.
> 
> 2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
> ...


How refreshing to see someone ask intelligent questions so that they can make an informed decision before having the jab. I find it difficult to understand why someone would take the jab, not knowing what the long term implications are. Anyway, time will tell.

There are a whole bunch of real world reknowned scientists who can answer your questions at  https://corona-ausschuss.de/wp-conte...9/sitzung5.jpg

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## adrianh

> I find it difficult to understand why someone would take the jab, not knowing what the long term implications are. Anyway, time will tell.


Yet we eat and drink and smoke stuff every day without knowing whether there is a rat in the Coke tin of a finger in the loaf of bread or Salmonella in the polony, or whether the novacaine in the dentists injection is pure or the alchol content in the Cane won't kill us and and and and and...

The only answer is that performative activism allows people to make a lot of noise about the issue of the day. A couple of years ago people were carrying on about mercury in vaccines causing autism (that nonsense also stemmed from uninformed people not understanding basic chemistry)

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Andromeda (23-Aug-21)

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## Derlyn

> Yet we eat and drink and smoke stuff every day without knowing whether there is a rat in the Coke tin of a finger in the loaf of bread or Salmonella in the polony, or whether the novacaine in the dentists injection is pure or the alchol content in the Cane won't kill us and and and and and...
> 
> The only answer is that performative activism allows people to make a lot of noise about the issue of the day. A couple of years ago people were carrying on about mercury in vaccines causing autism (that nonsense also stemmed from uninformed people not understanding basic chemistry)


The only difference is that there's not a global rollout to get as many people as possible to eat polony, smoke ,,,,   and drink cane and coke. It is our choice what we eat or drink.
The ingredients are clearly on the packaging and it is our decision whether we want to consume it or not.

How many vaccines can one choose from ?  None.

Take what you get and stop asking questions.

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## adrianh

> Take what you get and stop asking questions.


So the entire world is wrong except a handful of people - strikes me a bit odd that 0.0000000000000000000000000000001% of people could be right.

I have friends and family living all over the world - they have had all the different vaccines, my brother in Namibia had the Russian Sputnic vaccine supplied to Namibia from China, my wife and all her family and friends in the UK have had the Astra Zeneca vaccine and my sister and family and friends in Australia have had the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, I had the Pfizer vaccine.

I bet a handful of people had the exact same opposition to all the other diseases that we now take vaccines for as a matter of course - 
    Chickenpox (Varicella)
    Diphtheria
    Flu (Influenza)
    Hepatitis A
    Hepatitis B
    Hib (Haemophilus influenzae type b)
    HPV (Human Papillomavirus)
    Measles
    Meningococcal
    Mumps
    Pneumococcal
    Polio (Poliomyelitis)
    Rotavirus
    Rubella (German Measles)
    Shingles (Herpes Zoster)
    Tetanus (Lockjaw)
    Whooping Cough (Pertussis )

Do you realize what happens to pregnant women if they contract German Measles - their babies don't get to argue about whether mommy believed the doctor when the doctor told her that the $h!t gets real if she doesn't take the vaccine.

When I did my 2 years national service years ago we had an outbreak of Meningitis (Meningococcal) in a camp housing 1600 people meant for 600. (We also had gippo-guts every Sunday from crap food but I digress) Everybody, troops, NCOs and officers started getting very sick very quickly. They lined the entire camp up from the RSM down to the Gippo-gatte and we all got the vaccine whether we liked it or not. Nobody complained because all our maatjies were dying like flies around us. I clearly remember one of the side effects of the vaccine - it makes you p!$$ red for some reason (its not blood, there was some other strange chemical reaction)

Look, I am not saying that the vaccines are perfect or that wearing a mask is perfect or washing your hands is perfect - all that I am trying to say is that doing those things are no different to wearing a seat belt - of course you might still get killed in a car accident but statistically speaking you have better chance of survival. 

The car seat belt analogy can be extrapolated to the vaccines more effectively in the following way. Two people are sitting in the back of a car. The one wears a seat belt and the other doesn't. As they cross into an intersection they get hit on the side by a drunk driver at high speed causing the car to roll. The accident occurrs due to no fault of either passenger - they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time. The passenger that is not wearing the seat belt is flung around inside the car and he hits the passenger wearing the seat belt and kills him outright. If both passengers were wearing seat belts the chances of the both surviving would have been greater and the chance of one passenger hitting the other would have been less. Its all about probabilities - generally speaking we try to hedge our bets by doing things at the outset to protect ourselves and others from possible outcomes - that is why we buy insurance and that is why the government forces us to pay for third party insurance - we just don't know how our $h!t might affect other people.

I remember years ago when the government legislated rear seat belts and kiddie seats in cars. I remember all the adults whinging and whining about how difficult and inconvenient it would be to force a child to wear a seat belt. Even after all that we still see kids standing on the front seat of cars traveling at speed. Daddy doesn't like wearing a seat belt so little Johnny gets to be roadkill though the windscreen when some other person turns in front of the car. The accident wasn't daddies fault but daddy could have (statistically speaking) given little Johnny a much better chance of survival if daddy forced little Johnny to sit down and wear the seat belt whether he likes it or not. Vaccines are no different - We take them not only to protect ourselves but also to protect others (on the balance of probability)

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Andromeda (23-Aug-21)

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## Derlyn

I'm probably a bit over cautious when it comes to these injections that were produced in record time as far as vaccines are concerned.

I'm also reading quite a few reports of possible negative or even deadly effects from the vaccines that are presently being rolled out.

These reports are not from my buddies but from world renowned scientists and doctors with plenty degrees and decades of experience in this field. But, hey, what do they know ?

Anyway, like I said, I'm over cautious.

Peace out   ..   Derek.

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## adrianh

> Anyway, like I said, I'm over cautious.


Fair enough, there is nothing wrong with that. Millions of people swear by Apple products and I won't touch them with a barge pole - we all have our fears and our choices.

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## GCE

I have a workshop full of people that we have been having discussions with to assist in making the choice to vaccinate so we can protect each other and ensure that the business stays open with minimal disruption ( continually isolation of staff) so that we can all earn a living.

In order to answer questions I have had to look for answers and ensure that I used recognized ( by their peers) websites or research sites that were around long before Covid came along.
There are plenty of websites with information that have sprung up recently that I tend to read with a pinch of salt.

What has been interesting within our workplace is that we have 2 general workers that have convinced there peers to take the vaccine and that was based on their experience when we were installing supply to oxygen tanks in December in the rural areas , like Butterworth and Libode , where bodies where being constantly carted out to refrigerated containers.

I also found that mRNA vaccine principles have been under research for the past 10 years but the lack of financial support has kept the pace of advancement throttled.
Why would big pharma companies want to find a solution when they can keep selling you tablets ?

An example is one staff member that did not want to vaccinate because of social media and that he felt he lives healthy , eats healthy and covid would not effect him besides mild flu  - Contracted Covid and is now counting the days to vaccination. During his Covid period he was seriously man down and lost 4 days of awareness .
During this time he spent R5K on tablets for himself and his wife - vs R1K that it would have cost for vaccine - Surely the big pharma companies would prefer supplying tablets vs vaccine ? 

mRNA was being researched as a possible cancer cure - Why would big pharma companies want to cut off the supply of Chemo treatment at 70K a month , which could explain the lack of research funding.

I have a look at the medical aid companies - They have a vast pool of experts and actuaries researching before they support any form of medical treatment - Surely they are not going to support vaccine's if they have a suspicion that in 5 years time a large percentage of recipients will have side effects that are going to cost them a fortune in medical treatments. Besides, they will not be wanting to kill off there client base.It would make no commercial sense .

If you are worried about the side effects listed for the vaccine , have you had a look at the side effects of a headache tablet ? and I bet almost every one takes them without a 2nd thought.

I thought the statement below that was put to together by an employer in preparation with meeting his employee's after talking to experts that he has as clients was classic.

[I*]How safe is the vaccines  research (4 billion stats) is telling us there is a .0007% risk of getting blood clots or an allergic reaction when receiving the vaccine. Research and science tells us that it is 70 times riskier to take anti-biotics than the vaccine and we take them all the time for flues and infections etc.  Based on the above stats you have more chance to die at the hands of a disabled grasshopper kicking you to death while you are wearing a helmet than dying from the vaccine.* [/I]


The majority of experts in the field of vaccinations agree that they work , the math's with regards to excess deaths and cases in countries that have rolled out successful vaccination programs is self explanatory.
There will always be a handful of experts in every field that have opposing theories but when the overwhelming majority agree then surely you have to sit up and listen.

I have pasted 2 opinions that were published last year explaining the reason vaccines for covid came along so quickly and they make sense .

https://www.carnallfarrar.com/articl...collaboration/
https://twitter.com/Kat_Arney/status...64932813955072

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adrianh (22-Aug-21)

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## Dave A

My numbers game is comparing the numbers on the potential negative consequences of not being vaccinated vs the numbers on potential negative consequences arising from the vaccination.

The simple maths to me is the benefit of improved chances of surviving a Covid 19 infection outweigh the potential for harmful consequences from the vaccine.
For those who love being analytical down to every detail, by all means call me naïve. But the big picture looks plain as day; I don't see how squabbling about the fine print in the margins changes the big picture. There is a huge difference between the risk of dealing with Covid *without* having being vaccinated vs the risks associated with being vaccinated.

Reality proved even more on point as I got pretty sick after the first shot of Pfizer.
I started a scratchy throat within 15 minutes of the shot and my nose started streaming - like a heavy head cold. Both persisted strongly for 36 hours and I felt pretty lousy. There was a sudden and very noticeable improvement after 36 hours, but I only really felt back on my perch after two weeks.
Yes, that first shot did not go well. But nowhere near as badly as it probably would had if I had got infected with Covid.
I should probably also mention that pretty much everyone else I know who have had these vaccinations had hardly any issues other than the sore arm which seems pretty standard.

Needless to say, when I went for my second shot last Monday I was rather apprehensive as to what the consequences would be. However, I still had the view that whatever happened, it should surely be less serious than if I got Covid itself.

The great news is apart from the sore arm at the injection site, not a single side effect. I felt 100%.
Although I didn't go for a run that first evening just to play safe, I certainly felt like I could have. And I have been running the rest of the week with no problems.

Yes, the first shot hammered me harder than it did anyone else I have spoken to who has had the shot.
But the second shot was a massively improved result. 
And isn't improving outcomes the whole point?

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adrianh (22-Aug-21)

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## We_Know

I guess only time will tell if taking these vaccines are like….
1) Snorting crack cocaine for short term benefits but with long term drawbacks.
2) Regular vaccines with short and long term benefits.

This recently published article suggests ADE is a concern.
Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...63445321003923

They are essentially saying that new vaccines will be needed to minimize ADE from the Delta variant. But new variants are inevitable so this suggests people will need to take new vaccines dependent on how fast new variants emerge in order to minimize vaccine-associated ADE.

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## Derlyn

Good morning

The following quote by Ian Watson is applicable to just about anything and in my view deserves some thought.

_" If you have to be persuaded, reminded, pressured, incentivised, coersed, bullied, socially shamed, guilt tripped, threatened, punished and criminalized .......
  If all of the above is considered necessary to gain your compliance, you can be absolutely certain that what is being promoted, is not in your best interest "_

Enjoy your day    ...   Derek

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## Derlyn

> I am getting the jab soon but I have a few questions that I would like some clarity on.
> 1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
> 2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
> 3) How does the mRNA vaccine spread throughout the body?
> 
> 1) The issue about anti-body dependent enhancement
> This is a potential long term issue whereby new variants can induce anti-body dependent enhancement and it can be fatal. This was actually observed in previous mRNA vaccines and in some cases this can only be seen 18-24 months after the initial vaccination. There is a bit of uncertainty about this issue for me.
> 
> 2) Will this vaccine drive the evolution of new variants?
> ...


@ We-Know

The following doctor might be of interest to you. Dr Vladimir Zelenco.

He developed the famous Zelenko Protocol.
It was he who treated Donald Trump.

He has been nominated for a Nobel Prize.

He sat down and chatted with Jeremy Nell a couple of days ago.
I think you will find what he said, quite interesting.

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/dr-vlad...r-donald-trump

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## GCE

Every now and again when I awake early and have spare time on my hands I feel the urge to wade in and drop some opposing views to the garbage that gets spewed out by the anti vax crowd.

" Empty vessels make the most noise "  is fairly appropriate with anti vax narratives and they battle to produce evidence reviewed by the majority.


https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/

Even I could get nominated for a Nobel peace price , will just need to buy the professor that pops into my local pub a couple of extra pints and get his signature 

If you then have a look to see if this expert mention by Derlyn above has any medical value it is soon debunked by various people 
To date there have been no clinical trials completed and accepted by peer review 
Similar to the ivermectin story , no applications to any medical board's have been applied for to begin medical trials on supposedly wonder drugs " discovered"  18 months ago  

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/the...scalpel-awards
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ze...irus-patients/
https://www.poynter.org/?ifcn_misinf...or-nobel-prize
https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/...covid-quackery

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adrianh (31-Aug-21)

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## Andromeda

Actually Sean Conley was the White House Physician and Vladimir Zelenco has never been near the Walter Reed National Military Medical Centre.

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## adrianh

hmmmm...well done there!

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## ians

Shall I post the pictures of the doctor who had the jab and ended up in ICU ... we didnt get to pray for him ... he died ... it couldnt have been the jab ... it must have been some underlying issue that killed him. 

You need to do what you feel is right and stop bullying everyone else ... if you feel the right thing is to have the jab ... please do it ... nobody is stopping you and the same for anti jabbers ... it is your right to do what you feel is right without being pressured into it ... you will suffer the consequences of your actions either way. 

There must be something more interesting to talk about on this forum. 

Covid covid covid covid covid covid ... no wonder depression is at an all time high ... and suicide rates are going through the room. 

Do what you feel is right ... get it dont get ... I dont really care ... I dont force it on my staff or anyone around me ... if they worried about others who dont have it done ... then stay away from them ...wash your hand and wear your mask or dont wear your mask ... it is that simple. 

If you feel you dont want to wear a mask but have the cheek to pick on me or one of my staff members for not wearing a mask while around you ... read between the lines.

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## adrianh

> There must be something more interesting to talk about on this forum. 
> 
> Covid covid covid covid covid covid ... no wonder depression is at an all time high ... and suicide rates are going through the room. 
> 
> Do what you feel is right ... get it dont get ...


LoL....

If you don't like the topic at hand then don't participate in the conversation....don't whine about others talking about it.

NOBODY FORCES YOU TO PARTICIPATE!

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## Derlyn

> Every now and again when I awake early and have spare time on my hands I feel the urge to wade in and drop some opposing views to the garbage that gets spewed out by the anti vax crowd.
> 
> " Empty vessels make the most noise "  is fairly appropriate with anti vax narratives and they battle to produce evidence reviewed by the majority.
> 
> 
> https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/
> 
> Even I could get nominated for a Nobel peace price , will just need to buy the professor that pops into my local pub a couple of extra pints and get his signature 
> 
> ...


I agree

It was silly of me to mention the Nobel prize thing.
You are right, it means nothing, I mean even FW De Klerk got one.

Just a couple of points before I leave the Covid topic for the last time.

I am not an anti vaxxer. I have had all the required vaccines up to now, except experimental one's.
I do, however, have the right to choose whether I want to subject myself to an experimental vaccine or not.
The experiment being carried out presently, I believe, is scheduled to end sometime late in 2023.

Much like a judge or jury will hear testimony from both the prosecutor and the accused before being able to make an informed decision, so do I.
I read extensively and concentrate specifically on the writings of those who have been de platformed. The rest one can find in the main stream media and on Youtube.

Just the fact that certain professors and doctors have been de platformed, should make anyone with an enquiring mind suspicious.
Why do everything possible to shut them up ?  What do they know that the powers that be don't want you or I to know ?

One cannot unfortunately rely only on You tube, Facebook and twitter for a balanced view. I mean, You tube removes videos that suggest that Vit C is good for you.
One has to go elsewhere as well, without brushing everything off as conspiricy theories.

Because of a number of so called conspiracy theorists, the fear mongering campaign launched by the MSM and governments all over the world has had no effect on me or my wife. For this I am gratefull. Life carries on as usual for us. Fortunately, being self employed, there is no pressure from anyone for me to conform to any draconian regulations.

On a daily basis, I see the fear that has been instilled in people, so much so that they cannot think rationally. They took it, hook, line and sinker. I feel for them.

Peace out   ...   Derek

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## skatingsparks

My view is a simple one....

I'm an electrician - I'm good at that - I go to someone house/place of business/factory where they have a problem.  Person who doesn't understand the reason for their problem asks me to solve the problem.  I suggest a solution based on what I see - they take it or leave it.

I'm not a plumber - I understand the basics - I call someone who is an expert and I listen to his advice.  Yes I could have googled it but I don't want to flood my house

There is global pandemic - pretty much every medical expert (including the doctors who are treating my sick daughter) says take the pfzers jab.  I ask them "Is it a good idea".  They say "Hell yes"  I google some stuff and find a lot of people who know nothing about it who mostly sound a bit mental(I AM VACINATED WITH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST!!!).
The doctor who has managed to keep my daughter cancer at bay seems a better person to listen to - I take the vacine and aprt froma bit of sore arm for a morning - all is well.

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adrianh (02-Sep-21)

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## adrianh

> My view is a simple one....
> 
> I'm an electrician - I'm good at that - I go to someone house/place of business/factory where they have a problem.  Person who doesn't understand the reason for their problem asks me to solve the problem.  I suggest a solution based on what I see - they take it or leave it.
> 
> I'm not a plumber - I understand the basics - I call someone who is an expert and I listen to his advice.  Yes I could have googled it but I don't want to flood my house
> 
> There is global pandemic - pretty much every medical expert (including the doctors who are treating my sick daughter) says take the pfzers jab.  I ask them "Is it a good idea".  They say "Hell yes"  I google some stuff and find a lot of people who know nothing about it who mostly sound a bit mental(I AM VACINATED WITH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST!!!).
> The doctor who has managed to keep my daughter cancer at bay seems a better person to listen to - I take the vacine and aprt froma bit of sore arm for a morning - all is well.


Well put! I trust the trained, qualified and experienced pilots / engineers to fly and maintain the planes....no matter how many hours I spent arguing with gamers on social media about playing "Mr airline pilot" on the Xbox!

The problem is that every man and his dog has an opinion and social media is a powerful force in many people's lives. Of course many people don't trust their governments (rightfully so in many cases) and thus deems whatever the government do as untrustworthy by default (whether it is so or not)

The bottom line to the entire debate is exactly as you say: "Its up to each of us to choose whose opinions we trust about a particular topic" - I trust the Brain Surgeon with my brain and the Electrician with my plugs but not vice versa. To add to the point - I don't trust the social media "performative activists" on either topic no matter how much noise they make!

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## blackirish99

Concerns have been raised of the possible under-reporting of side-effects to COVID-19 vaccines administered locally. The South African Health Products Regulatory Authority (SAHPRA) says information about reactions to this jab but also other medicines are lowest in this country. Fewer than a hundred cases of adverse reactions have been reported since May, and no deaths are linked to the COVID-19 vaccine.
Everyone is encouraged to report any adverse reactions to the vaccine on established platforms to avoid panic and misinformation.

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## Derlyn

It has been reported that another doctor has been de platformed for showing what she found concerning the blood of her patients when analysed under a microscope after they
received the experimental injection.

Dr Zandre Botha from Krugersdorp has been analysing blood for the past 15 years, so according to some commentators here on this forum, she knows nothing.

Anyway, for those who are interested, I have attached the link below.

She shows before injection and after injection analyses on the same patient.
She says that the analyses of blood samples of all her patients who have received the experimental injection show similar results.

It's because of Doctors like her and Dr Susan Vosloo that I have faith in humanity.

Peace out   ...   Derek

https://odysee.com/@jermwarfare:2/zandre-botha:a

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## GCE

> It has been reported that another doctor has been de platformed for showing what she found concerning the blood of her patients when analysed under a microscope after they
> received the experimental injection.
> 
> Dr Zandre Botha from Krugersdorp


*You forgot to mention that she is not a medical doctor*

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## adrianh

> *You forgot to mention that she is not a medical doctor*


https://www.drzandrebotha.com/about


*About*
Dr. Zandré Botha

﻿Ph.D *Alt.* MD

Wha ha ha ha hahahahahaha

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## ians

This covid discussion is like watching a tool review on youtube ... where the person unboxes the tool and gives his expert opinion on the tool ... with very little experience using the tool.

As I have mentioned before ... from first hand experience (not as a scientist) I have been exposed to the virus on many occasions from people in the building self isolating while I work in other parts of the building ... where as many as 16 people have tested positive ... friends and family who have died (from something in the past 18 months) ... filling out registers at various locations as I travel and collect/deliver or work ... delivering and collecting goods ... i have got to the point where I can no longer expose my hands to so much liquid that is placed at entrances (without any medical documentation to verify the contents) some days I get home my hands look like those of an 90 year old ...  wash my hands frequently with hand wash I carry in my van or I use baby wipes (also use them for cleaning tools ... they work wonders) 


I am not a mask fan ... only wear it where I am forced to or if a customer wears a mask when I enter the property.

Recently I had the double jab ... the only reason I chose to have the jab was because media indicates that it "will set you free" and a few other reasons  ... I must be one of the few who are immune to the virus considering the exposure to the virus right from the start (as an essential service) ... there have been comments that because my hands are cleaned frequently due to hands on working. 

My opinion on the matter ... do what you think is right ... if you have done the your research and feel you are confident with your decision ... dont be bullied into doing something just because everyone else thinks its the right thing to do ... you will suffer the consequence of your action ... right or wrong.

I ask myself why did I need to get jabbed if I am immune to the virus ... why are there no tests for people who are immune and why are they just trying to force everyone to get the jab ?

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Desert Man (11-Oct-21)

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## adrianh

> I ask myself why did I need to get jabbed if I am immune to the virus ... why are there no tests for people who are immune and why are they just trying to force everyone to get the jab ?


Ian - You can't test a person whether they can swim without tossing them in the pool and watching them swim or drown. If they drown then they can't swim and they are DEAD.

The virus is the same!

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## ians

By the way ... 5 years ago I was told that I had to start using statins ... the doctor told me that it is hereditary and that it run in my family ( a load of bullshyte ... more like the biggest money making racket in the world) I took stains for 2 months ... then decided I would change my eating habits and get fit ... so I stopped taking the statins and promised my family that if the blood test results didnt change within 12 months that I would take the pills ... it caused a big problem in our family ... 12 months later I had the same 3 pages of blood tests ... I was cleared and no longer take any medication and was no longer a diabetic risk. 

When I asked the doctor about it running in the family ... he still cant give me and answer. 

By the way my wife was even called in to warn her that I was walking dead ... those test results were so bad ... scared the living daylights out of everyone.

While on the subject of dangerous shyte ... I was told that at my age I shouldnt be pushing my heart rate past 175 bpm ... When I showed the doctor the 198 bpm during cadence cycling session ... which by the way I completed 2 sessions back to back (its all in the mind)

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## adrianh

Ian - A living thing is not a machine with fixed specifications. We grow, change, age, adapt and are altered by our environment. A person may be fine and suddenly develop diabetes. A friend's 15 year old suddenly developed Epilepsy. Lead poisoning makes people go slowly insane. One person bumps his head  and becomes a raving schizophrenic mass murderer and another becomes a math genius.

A doctor can only theorize and advise based on statistical probability because of what I just said - The doctor cannot speak for your exact physiology as much as I can speak for the physiology of my cat. I know, statistically speaking, that my cat will live till it is about 20 years of age if it doesn't stress itself (STATISTICALLY SPEAKING) That said - it may die at 10 or it may die at 25.


Ok, let me give you an example closer to home - A company phones you up and ask: Ian, you are the electrician - Our 60 year old building has some issues, often trips the overload  and people keep plugging in more and more kettles simultaneously - will the building burn down?

You will say that "Given the limited information; your inability to inspect every cable, the fact that the building is old, the fact that the overload trips fairly often; that it is HIGHLY LIKELY that the building will burn down if people keep adding more and more kettles simultaneously . (This is probabilistic statistical reasoning) - The building might burn down and it might not - but as an advisor you will tend to err on the side of caution)

Doctors do the same!

No it is not all in the mind! - This fallacy is used to explain away things that people do not understand. (Yes I know about the placebo effect) We are physiological creatures and as such we can also say that it is all in the stomach - when the stomach is sore we feel poorly mentally - The mainframe in the head doesn't know whether our psychology is making our stomach sore or whether our sore stomach is giving us poor psychology - all that the mainframe knows is that it feels bad. Our brains then concoct a reason to explain what we sense internally (the self diagnosis is wrong most of the time because the brain has limited information to work with - all it has is its own sensory inputs and mostly faulty reasoning)

----------


## Derlyn

> *You forgot to mention that she is not a medical doctor*


It was never my intention to deceive anyone by referring to her as a doctor, which she is.

She is suitably qualified for what she does and that's what counts.
So is Dr Philippe van Welbergen.


BTW Bill Gates isn't a medical doctor neither.

Seems like I have been unblocked   ...    :Wink: 

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## GCE

> It was never my intention to deceive anyone by referring to her as a doctor, which she is.
> 
> She is suitably qualified for what she does and that's what counts.
> So is Dr Philippe van Welbergen.
> 
> 
> BTW Bill Gates isn't a medical doctor neither.
> 
> Seems like I have been unblocked   ...   
> ...


I have a mate that is a Doctor - He has a doctorate in Health and Safety - He would not be qualified to comment on virologist matters 

Similarly Dr Zandra Botha has no qualifications in virologist studies nor does she state what section of alternative medicine she studied and the range is wide including but not limited to chiropractor.

By her own admission on her website under Covid Treatment/prevention and under Post Covid injection ,she states "  _These recommendations have been used in our practice with great success, you should still consult a medical professional or healthcare provider if your are seeking medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment_" 

Her admission would imply that she is not qualified to have her statements taking seriously

----------


## adrianh

One could always get a Ph.D in Manga...

https://www.kyoto-seika.ac.jp/eng/edu/graduate/manga/

...at the "Faculty of Manga"

https://www.kyoto-seika.ac.jp/eng/edu/manga/

With such a prestigious Ph.D one could speak authoritatively on any subject....

----------


## Derlyn

> I have a mate that is a Doctor - He has a doctorate in Health and Safety - He would not be qualified to comment on virologist matters 
> 
> Similarly Dr Zandra Botha has no qualifications in virologist studies nor does she state what section of alternative medicine she studied and the range is wide including but not limited to chiropractor.
> 
> By her own admission on her website under Covid Treatment/prevention and under Post Covid injection ,she states "  _These recommendations have been used in our practice with great success, you should still consult a medical professional or healthcare provider if your are seeking medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment_" 
> 
> Her admission would imply that she is not qualified to have her statements taking seriously


Don't shoot the messenger. Rather check out the message.

At about 3 min and 40 seconds into the video, Dr Botha herself say's that one doesn't need to be a blood expert to see the difference.
Even I can, and I don't have a PHD in anything.

I don't think the microscope or camera can distinguish between a doctor or medical doctor when doing what it does and I doubt whether the photo's
would have been any different had a medical doctor taken them. That's just my take.

If anyone cannot see the difference, I suggest they make an appointment with an optometrist with the right credentials. First make sure that they are not a mechanic posing as an optometrist.

Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## adrianh

Wha ha ha ha....

----------


## Derlyn

> Wha ha ha ha....


A humble request.

Please, I don't often beg anyone, but I beg you ....... please    ..    please block me again as promised.
This time, keep your word and do it permanently.

Thanking you in advance.

Derek

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

The one on the right is obese.
Ah well, I suppose thats the symbol for good health.

Rather you than me, thank you.

Derek

----------


## GCE

> Don't shoot the messenger. Rather check out the message.
> 
> At about 3 min and 40 seconds into the video, Dr Botha herself say's that one doesn't need to be a blood expert to see the difference.
> Even I can, and I don't have a PHD in anything.
> 
> I don't think the microscope or camera can distinguish between a doctor or medical doctor when doing what it does and I doubt whether the photo's
> would have been any different had a medical doctor taken them. That's just my take.
> 
> If anyone cannot see the difference, I suggest they make an appointment with an optometrist with the right credentials. First make sure that they are not a mechanic posing as an optometrist.
> ...


I would not know what blood looks like after a heavy night of smokes and beer , or a touch of flu - I have no idea what blood does and how it change when somebody sleeps or just finished a run.

I would rather listen to somebody that has the credentials to back up there statements.

----------


## GCE

> Don't shoot the messenger. Rather check out the message.
> 
> At about 3 min and 40 seconds into the video, Dr Botha herself say's that one doesn't need to be a blood expert to see the difference.
> Even I can, and I don't have a PHD in anything.
> 
> I don't think the microscope or camera can distinguish between a doctor or medical doctor when doing what it does and I doubt whether the photo's
> would have been any different had a medical doctor taken them. That's just my take.
> 
> If anyone cannot see the difference, I suggest they make an appointment with an optometrist with the right credentials. First make sure that they are not a mechanic posing as an optometrist.
> ...


I would not know what blood looks like after a heavy night of smokes and beer , or a touch of flu - I have no idea what blood does and how it change when somebody sleeps or just finished a run.

I would rather listen to somebody that has the credentials to back up there statements.

----------


## Derlyn

> I would rather listen to somebody that has the credentials to back up there statements.


Dr Philippe van Welbergen D.Hom.Med MSc DHPh CLS​ MASLMS MHMA(UK) is your man to go to.
He is described in HEART publications as a highly qualified bio-medical specialist in private practice.
Looks as if his credentials are in order.

He has found the same as Dr Botha, but on a different continent.
He backs up his findings in the attached video.
He doesn't seem to think that the condition of the blood that he saw was due to either smoking, drinking, flu or sleeping.

His findings can be seen here. Very similar to those of Dr Botha's.

https://lovinglifetv.com/live-dr-phi...drug-roll-out/

edit. added at 9.42      https://www.heartpublications.co.uk/...cinated-blood/

Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## Andromeda

> you should still consult a medical professional or healthcare provider if your are seeking medical advice, diagnoses, or treatment[/I]"


It is a small thing I know, but there the word "diagnoses" does not exist in English.

"Please take note that Dr Botha is not a medical Dr but an academic Dr.  Her qualification is recognized in 194 countries including America and Europe but not in SA.  Dr Botha does not diagnose or treat any illness but supports health through complementary medicine, lifestyle management." 

Sounds like my mate in Thailand.

----------


## adrianh

Being an obtuse Anti-Vaxxer has serious consequences.....

Don't get sick and require a transplant...

*Patients denied transplants for refusing covid vaccine*

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/healt...id-vaccine.cnn

----------


## Derlyn

At least those who have not yet had the experimental injection still have a choice. They can always have it if they change their mind.

A vaxhole has lost their chance of having a choice.

Dont worry too much though. There are brilliant minds working on a cure for the jab. All is not lost.

Hope it comes sooner rather than later because thousands have been affecred.

Peace out   ..   Derek.

----------


## adrianh



----------


## tec0

To be vaccinated is a choice, falling ill of Covid 19 not so much. 

i don't see people getting in line to get Covid 19... Despite 4.55 million deaths, there are those that are still in denial. 

That is 4.55 million people we will never get to see again. 

Then you get people that is trying to be clever and "troll" thinking it is "fun"... I wish they knew and understood that nothing is without consequences.

----------


## GCE

> Dr Philippe van Welbergen D.Hom.Med MSc DHPh CLS​ MASLMS MHMA(UK) is your man to go to.
> He is described in HEART publications as a highly qualified bio-medical specialist in private practice.
> Looks as if his credentials are in order.
> 
> He has found the same as Dr Botha, but on a different continent.
> He backs up his findings in the attached video.
> He doesn't seem to think that the condition of the blood that he saw was due to either smoking, drinking, flu or sleeping.
> 
> His findings can be seen here. Very similar to those of Dr Botha's.
> ...



At first glance the titles behind the name look impressive , on a search it basically means that he has study Homeopathy and is a Member Homeopathic Medical Association ( MHMA ) 
He basically runs an expensive " Beauty Spa " 

_ Philippe van Welbergen D.Hom.Med MSc DHPh CLS MASLMS MHMA (UK) As a Certified Laser Specialist, Philippe's area of specialty is aesthetics and health improvement utilising homeopathy and homotoxicology Gitta Moolenschot APH IICT CLS MASLMS_

Again does not seem to be recognized within the mainstream medical profession

----------


## Dave A

> At least those who have not yet had the experimental injection still have a choice. They can always have it if they change their mind.
> 
> A vaxhole has lost their chance of having a choice.


"Vaxholes" have decided to *use* their choice rather than pontificate, speculate, vacillate and procrastinate.

----------


## adrianh

> Dr Philippe van Welbergen D.Hom.Med MSc DHPh CLS​ MASLMS MHMA(UK) is your man to go to.
> He is described in HEART publications as a highly qualified bio-medical specialist in private practice.
> Looks as if his credentials are in order.
> 
> He has found the same as Dr Botha, but on a different continent.
> He backs up his findings in the attached video.
> He doesn't seem to think that the condition of the blood that he saw was due to either smoking, drinking, flu or sleeping.
> 
> His findings can be seen here. Very similar to those of Dr Botha's.
> ...

----------


## tec0

> "Vaxholes" have decided to *use* their choice rather than pontificate, speculate, vacillate and procrastinate.


"Vaxholes" <--- Wonder who came up with this?

Anyhow, why fuss about it? The reality is simply people that deny Covid 19's existence will eventually get exposed to it because they don't want to use precautions. Then it comes down to what version of Covid 19 they got and in what level of severity they got it. Now the real trouble starts. They will need care and may even need hospitalization depending. Now there is also a question of whom they had physical contact with. Statistically this means family will be most lightly, co-workers a second and friends a third. Take the average of contact between previously mentioned possible individuals and the process repeats because they where exposed who did they expose and so the situation gets worse. Yet people are called "Vaxholes" now?

Far be it from me to wish ill will towards anyone, but at some stage at some point these "individuals" better realize they are not just gambling with their lives... No...

Galileo Galilei famously said "Mathematics is the alphabet with which God has written the universe" Now there are multitude of factors distilling down to key points, moments and happenings that will have a result without any deviation. At some point there will be exposure and it only takes a few factors for it to occur.

Never underestimate escalation...

----------


## Derlyn

> To be vaccinated is a choice, falling ill of Covid 19 not so much. 
> 
> i don't see people getting in line to get Covid 19... Despite 4.55 million deaths, there are those that are still in denial. 
> 
> That is 4.55 million people we will never get to see again. 
> 
> Then you get people that is trying to be clever and "troll" thinking it is "fun"... I wish they knew and understood that nothing is without consequences.


Good morning brother.

Nice to hear from you again.  You were quiet for a while.
Anyway glad you ok.

Have a good day and God bless you.

Derek

----------


## adrianh

> "Vaxholes" <--- Wonder who came up with this?


It was concocted in the early hours of the evening around a braai using an age old "elixir of wit"

----------


## Derlyn

> It has been reported that another doctor has been de platformed for showing what she found concerning the blood of her patients when analysed under a microscope after they
> received the experimental injection.
> 
> Dr Zandre Botha from Krugersdorp has been analysing blood for the past 15 years, so according to some commentators here on this forum, she knows nothing.
> 
> Anyway, for those who are interested, I have attached the link below.
> 
> She shows before injection and after injection analyses on the same patient.
> She says that the analyses of blood samples of all her patients who have received the experimental injection show similar results.
> ...


Well since this post and the reaction from the commentators, I have become wiser.

1. I am a good fortune teller.
2. My mother wasn't honest with me.

I did predict that some commentators would say that Dr Zandre Botha, even after analyzing blood samples for 15 years, knows nothing about blood.
I WAS RIGHT. I'm a good fortune teller.

When I was little, my late mother ( bless her soul ) would always tell me to eat up all my carrots because they were good for my eyesight.
I ate more carrots than Bugs Bunny and his whole family put together.
At the age of 45, my arms were too short for me to read my comics. I needed reading glasses and my eyesight has deteriorated slowly but regularly since then.

I have spent the last 18 years wondering why my mother would not have been truthful.
Turns out that she was truthful but at the same time forgetful.

Thanks to you guys, the mystery has been solved.

She forgot to tell me that as well as eating the carrots, one also needs to be a medical doctor for good eyesight and to see things clearly.
Not just any degree. It must be an MHChB degree otherwise you cannot see a thing. If I knew that, I wouldn't have worried about all the carrot eating.

Anyway, thanks for solving that mystery for me.

It was fun to see how you guys tried everything in the book to distract attention away from the subject at hand.

If only one person was not distracted by all the nonsense then my mission was successful.
One at a time. That's how it works.

Until the next one
Peace out   ...   Derek.

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

Distractions, distractions. That's all it is.
40% for trying.

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

Water off a ducks back. Wasting your time with me. Grow up.

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

Just for interest sake and for those watching your antics, how old are you ?

I'd hazard a guess. Not a day older than 4.  😆😆

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

Nice try   :Big Grin:  :Big Grin: 

*NEVER*

Any more distractions ?

----------


## adrianh



----------


## Derlyn

Carry on. Enjoy yourself. I've got better things to do.
Goodnight.  Don't forget the dummy now.

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## adrianh

This is the conversation that I am having right now on my phone with a friend.

I hope that you are enjoying it - I will send him your regards!

----------

tec0 (11-Oct-21)

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## adrianh

None of his family had the vaccines and they are all sick together at home, himself, his wife, 2 daughters, his sister, his mother, his brother and his brother's son.

He can hardly breathe without oxygen - he has to stay in bed with the oxygen mask . He is unable to absorb enough oxygen fast enough so he is out of breath all the time.

----------


## tec0

> This is the conversation that I am having right now on my phone with a friend.
> 
> I hope that you are enjoying it - I will send him your regards!


i hope he gets better.

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## adrianh

> i hope he gets better.


Its really harsh because its totally out of the blue. I will chat with him every day and see how its going. The thing that gets me is that IDIOTS still don't believe that the danger is real. How much more real can you get than chat with a friend real time via Whatsapp while him and his family are being decimated by a practically preventable disease. 

Human stupidity is truly boundless!

The thing that annoys me most is that if people want to kill themselves then that is perfectly OK, but that they have the audacity to willfully carry the disease and transmit it to others....that really sucks!

Anyway, I suppose the anti-vaxxers will fall back on the age old tried n tested excuse "It's God's plan" .....poor long white beard guy gets blamed for all human stupidity!

----------

Andromeda (12-Oct-21)

----------


## Desert Man

> Carry on. Enjoy yourself. I've got better things to do.
> Goodnight.  Don't forget the dummy now.


Agree!

----------


## adrianh

LoL - the two anti-vaxxers now resort to personal insults.

Oh well, this doesn't come as a surprise at all.

Carry on then...

Anyway, so my eldest daughter is going for her second vaccine on Thursday - Good stuff.

Things are starting to look up, with South Africa off the red list (DUE TO VACCINATIONS) our tourist industry will improve greatly. South Africa if a major tourist destination for Europeans over December given that we are entering summer and they are entering winter. The Cape Town Waterfront is said to expect a tourist boom - we can only hope! Given that airlines only allow FULLY VACCINATED passengers with VACCINE PASSPORTS we have little risk of people bringing Covid into the country. My wife lands on the 3rd of December in Cape Town flying Turkish Airlines on a direct flight from London. Hopefully the flight will be packed with toursists coming to spend their cash in South Africa.

----------


## Desert Man

Some experts who are worth listening to:-
Dr Robert Malone Inventor of mRNA
Dr Pierre Kory ICU & Lung Doctor
Dr Suneel Dhand Internal & Lifestyle Medicine
Dr Sam Bailey Medical Dr & Writer 
Dr Peter McCullough Internist, Cardiologist & Epidemiologist
Dr Michael Yeadon PhD in Respiratory Pharmacology (Fmr VP of Pfizer)
Dr Anne McCloskey GP
Dr Harvey Risch Prof of Epidemiology at Yale Schoool of Medicine

And hopefully this will NOT become a regular incident:
VAXXED Delta Pilot DIES IN-FLIGHT, Emergency Landing Required

----------


## adrianh

> VAXXED Delta Pilot DIES IN-FLIGHT, Emergency Landing Required


LoL...what nonsense.

Interesting how that silliness only appears on fringe conspiracy theory sites.

Talk about selectively linking events together:

Man with 2 legs dies from heart attack.
Man who drank a beer two days ago dies from embolism!
Man who has cat grows ear hair.

This is the idiotic interview that this silly nonsense is based on:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSH6qn8hJqk

----------


## adrianh

> VAXXED Delta Pilot DIES IN-FLIGHT, Emergency Landing Required


Please supply us with the flight number, location, date and time of this flight. We are very keen to learn more about this event. I mean, you are the one claiming this to be true - please put your money where your mouth is. Please also, when you show us this information then also show us the FAA report that links the pilot's death to the vaccine. 

Come on....SHOW US!

----------


## Justloadit

Yep, I also personally know some one who died of a heart attack, just as he walked into the office, by the way he was a no vaxer.
Come on people, I can draw up statistics to suit any story I want. Nothing is ever corroborated, all hear say. And if there is no supporting data, just use the line that the big pharma, corporation government is hiding the facts.

How many conspiracy theories start " ..... does not want you to know so it must be fact."

----------


## Derlyn



----------


## Desert Man

It's easy to find links to this. It's on various sites. Easy to search on the internet. Just key the text into your browser. 
Obviously those deeply invested in promoting the vaxxines will go into denial. You make up your own mind and move on without the continuous posting of silly cartoons and insults.
Each to his/her own.

----------


## adrianh

> It's easy to find links to this. It's on various sites. Easy to search on the internet. Just key the text into your browser. 
> Obviously those deeply invested in promoting the vaxxines will go into denial. You make up your own mind and move on without the continuous posting of silly cartoons and insults.
> Each to his/her own.


LoL..................YOU CAN'T SHOW US PROOF

Come on - go for it!!!!!!!

----------


## adrianh

> It's easy to find links to this. It's on various sites. Easy to search on the internet. Just key the text into your browser. 
> Obviously those deeply invested in promoting the vaxxines will go into denial. You make up your own mind and move on without the continuous posting of silly cartoons and insults.
> Each to his/her own.


Your buddy has taken to posting cartoons as well - So what now brown cow?

LoL.....

----------


## Derlyn

https://fb.watch/8BsS0ws14y/          Some more " silly nonsense " 

Seems like someone has been fibbing.

Only a matter of time.

In the meantime, don't be impatient.


Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## tec0

> It's easy to find links to this. It's on various sites. Easy to search on the internet. Just key the text into your browser. 
> Obviously those deeply invested in promoting the vaxxines will go into denial. You make up your own mind and move on without the continuous posting of silly cartoons and insults.
> Each to his/her own.


i deleted my above post after getting an email. That is all i have to say about that. I will disclose the following. 

Apparently their are social individuals/groups that wishes to push their narrative forward by utilizing heavy underhandedness. So be careful what links you utilize from this point forward. 

Sadly we do live in a time where it is rather difficult to authenticate websites, stories and the like. So i decided to distance myself form this topic completely. 

Simple truth is i don't have the time to research every story. 

Once more reputable sources becomes available we may know the truth. I wish to say more but at this point i digress.

----------


## Derlyn

> Your buddy has taken to posting cartoons as well - So what now brown cow?
> 
> LoL.....


At least mine are funny.   :Wink:  :Wink:  :Wink:  :Clap:

----------


## adrianh

> 





> At least mine are funny.


Yeah...ha ha.... 

I take it you like receiving Hepatitis B...

----------


## adrianh

> Attachment 8331





> At least mine are funny.


Yeah...ha ha.... 

I take it you like receiving Hepatitis B...

----------


## ians

I thought there was confusion around covid ... it seems there is an even more radical virus ... children are getting confused about being male or female ... not sure if they are male or female and some wake up in the morning and not sure what they are that morning ... if you stand and pee you must be from the one side ... if you sit and pee you must be from the other side ... apparently you are not suppose to refer to humans who sit and pee as women anymore. 

To me it is simple ... we are designed with a parts which fits into another human (not sure if we are still referred to as human) that goes into a hole ... you shouldnt  need to attach anything that is not already on your body ... if you put that thing that you stand and pee with ... inside the hole which is designed for such a purpose to make babies and a baby pops out 9 months later ...you doing it right ... if put that thing in the wrong hole and it shytes all over you ... thats a sign to say maybe something isnt right? 

I must be doing something right because I have seen a few humans pop out the hole I been pushing that thing I bang on the toilet seat  :Wink:

----------


## ians

by the way I am feeling feminine to day ... can I use the other peoples toilet today ... I promise I will sit and not stand ... there is a good chance I might end up peeing into the toilet tank rather than the toilet bowl.

----------


## adrianh

@ians - don't start with that - you are going to REALLY P!$$ a lot of people off. 

I get that you are trying to redirect the conversation away from the anti-vaxxers and their nonsense but this is not the way.

Please don't be an offensive TWAT - there is no need!

----------


## adrianh

> It's easy to find links to this. It's on various sites. Easy to search on the internet. Just key the text into your browser. 
> Obviously those deeply invested in promoting the vaxxines will go into denial. You make up your own mind and move on without the continuous posting of silly cartoons and insults.
> Each to his/her own.


So this is what happens when people publish a LOAD OF RUBBISH

Delta knocks down false report that vaccinated pilot died in-flight

New York (CNN Business)Delta Air Lines took the unusual step of publicly disputing a viral rumor spread by an anti-vax podcast, which claimed one of Delta's pilots recently died mid-flight days after getting a vaccine.
Delta (DAL) said no such thing happened. Mid-flight deaths are rare and airlines are legally required to report them publicly. The allegation was aired Monday on "The Stew Peters Show" podcast.
"All of these allegations are false," said Delta. "The pandemic has been an incredibly tragic time for many, and our hearts go out to the hundreds of thousands of families of those who have passed away from the horrific virus."

The story came from Peters' podcast guest, Jane Ruby, who said she had been told about it by three "whistleblowers directly related to Delta Air Lines," one of whom she said was a flight attendant on the flight.

She said that the co-pilot on the flight was safely able to land the plane, and that the flight had occurred within the previous 10 days. She also said the people shared with her a number of stories about other vaccinated Delta staff's deaths and health problems.

On the show, Peters identified Ruby as a doctor, but her website describes her as a "pharmaceutical drug development expert," and "health economist and New Right political pundit."
The Twitter accounts for both Ruby and Peters' show have been suspended for spreading misinformation. The podcast is still available online, though. Among its sponsors is "My Pillow," which is run by conspiracy theory purveyor Mike Lindell.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/13/b...ath/index.html

----------

tec0 (14-Oct-21)

----------


## tec0

> So this is what happens when people publish a LOAD OF RUBBISH
> 
> Delta knocks down false report that vaccinated pilot died in-flight
> 
> New York (CNN Business)Delta Air Lines took the unusual step of publicly disputing a viral rumor spread by an anti-vax podcast, which claimed one of Delta's pilots recently died mid-flight days after getting a vaccine.
> Delta (DAL) said no such thing happened. Mid-flight deaths are rare and airlines are legally required to report them publicly. The allegation was aired Monday on "The Stew Peters Show" podcast.
> "All of these allegations are false," said Delta. "The pandemic has been an incredibly tragic time for many, and our hearts go out to the hundreds of thousands of families of those who have passed away from the horrific virus."
> 
> The story came from Peters' podcast guest, Jane Ruby, who said she had been told about it by three "whistleblowers directly related to Delta Air Lines," one of whom she said was a flight attendant on the flight.
> ...


Remember i posted this: 




> i deleted my above post after getting an email. That is all i have to say about that. I will disclose the following. 
> 
> Apparently their are social individuals/groups that wishes to push their narrative forward by utilizing heavy underhandedness. So be careful what links you utilize from this point forward. 
> 
> Sadly we do live in a time where it is rather difficult to authenticate websites, stories and the like. So i decided to distance myself form this topic completely. 
> 
> Simple truth is i don't have the time to research every story. 
> 
> Once more reputable sources becomes available we may know the truth. I wish to say more but at this point i digress.


At that point in time i got an email from few of my friends advising me to stay away because the sources was still not confirmed. Well here we are... Strange how this worked out. 

See i was warned not to link to their YouTube pages and stuff like that and for good reason. Here we are...  :Confused:

----------


## adrianh

So my daughter got her 2nd vaccine this morning. We went to the local Medi-Clinic Hospital. I waited for her in the reception for about half an hour and I now (3 hours later) still have a massive headache due to all the sanitizing alcohol in the air at the hospital. I wonder what the long term impact is going to be of the huge amount of sanitizing alcohol everybody are being exposed to. The stuff gives me a terrible headache (I don't know of other long term side effects)

----------

tec0 (14-Oct-21)

----------


## adrianh

@tec - if a story isn't picked up by the mainstream media then there is a serious problem with the story (especially when it comes to aviation - there are many many live channels monitoring all aviation in real time so if anything happens to a plane anywhere it makes headlines quick quick - VasAviation, Blancolirio, Mentour Pilot, Daily Aviation (to mention only a few) on YouTube are all over all aviation issues within hours) - Contrary to what the Idiots will tell you - no, not all mainstream media have the same agenda - CNN, RT, FOX, BBC, Aljazeera are good sources because they have different agendas - If you scan for a story and it doesn't show up on any of those sources then you can be 90% sure that the story has holes.

No Buzzfeed, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram are not reliable news sources even though they have PRO Sci-Fi Paintshop renders :-)

----------


## Justloadit

> So my daughter got her 2nd vaccine this morning. We went to the local Medi-Clinic Hospital. I waited for her in the reception for about half an hour and I now (3 hours later) still have a massive headache due to all the sanitizing alcohol in the air at the hospital. I wonder what the long term impact is going to be of the huge amount of sanitizing alcohol everybody are being exposed to. The stuff gives me a terrible headache (I don't know of other long term side effects)


Haaaaa on a permanent bad hang over then  :Smile:

----------


## adrianh

> Haaaaa on a permanent bad hang over then


If only. The stuff actually gives me a terrible sinus headache. Its as if the alcohol goes and sits in my sinus membranes. I eventually got rid of the headache last night after 3 hours with the Tens unit strapped to my face :-)

----------


## Derlyn

Proffessor Edward J Steele speaks about the experimental injection and tells it like it is.

Can't cheat the universe  ---  so, so true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHw6zWiOv00


Derek

----------


## tec0

> If only. The stuff actually gives me a terrible sinus headache. Its as if the alcohol goes and sits in my sinus membranes. I eventually got rid of the headache last night after 3 hours with the Tens unit strapped to my face :-)


ClicksSaline Spray 30ml

Full disclosure 1 > i am not a doctor 2 > i don't know if it does anything 3 > it works for me it may not work for you. Sorry but as we all know we have or local resident that tries to see fault in anything that we post. 

Now back to what i wanted to say. I use this when i get home. It seems to work for me. i also got dreadful headaches from the chemical smells at every shop. So i grab the Saline Spray took it home and used it. Behold after and hour or so the headache cleared and i felt good. So i started to use it regularly but not excessively. Excessive use of anything is bad. 

Anyhow hope this helps.

----------


## adrianh

> ClicksSaline Spray 30ml
> 
> Full disclosure 1 > i am not a doctor 2 > i don't know if it does anything 3 > it works for me it may not work for you. Sorry but as we all know we have or local resident that tries to see fault in anything that we post. 
> 
> Now back to what i wanted to say. I use this when i get home. It seems to work for me. i also got dreadful headaches from the chemical smells at every shop. So i grab the Saline Spray took it home and used it. Behold after and hour or so the headache cleared and i felt good. So i started to use it regularly but not excessively. Excessive use of anything is bad. 
> 
> Anyhow hope this helps.


I'll give it a try. I use a Saline nasal wash when things get really bad. (I've had 4 sinus operations so there is really very little left of my mucus membranes). Flomist is also really good. Both my daughters also get terrible sinus headaches so there is always Sinutab or something lying around the house. The thing with the Chemical headache is that nothing seems to help. It is as if the Chemical needs to work its way out of the system. Soldering, superglue, Tamiya paints and various other chemicals give me the same sort of headaches. I'm the one that works with a respirator and a fan blowing on his face all the time :-)

----------


## Derlyn

I sincerely hope that the sinus headache has subsided. Honestly, believe it or not, I do.
Us old toppies should start a thread where we can exchange remedies for our ailments.
I have been struggling with an eye infection for about a week now and cannot seem to shake it off.

*Anyway, that's off topic.*

This thread is headed  *A few questions about the covid mRNA vaccines*.

Thats why I submitted the following youtube video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHw6zWiOv00

I don't know for how much longer it will be available on youtube for obvious reasons. You know medical misinformation and all those things.

It might be interesting to hear what our brother's opinions are on Prof Edward Steele's summary of the pandemic so far.
I found it quite thought provoking, considering his background.

Peace out   ..   Derek

----------


## adrianh

Interesting - He is obviously a very smart guy.

My sister lives in Sydney - I sent the link on to her - I am speaking to her tomorrow morning so I will hear what she has to say then.

----------


## Derlyn

> Interesting - He is obviously a very smart guy.


Exactly

----------


## adrianh

Look, I agree that there is a coverup of note. The initial Wuhan reports got squashed along with the fact the a certain government and Mr F had a looooooooong finger in the lab where it started. There were a couple of well known scientists in the beginning that said some things that got shut down very quickly. Its like 911 - The 1st reports showed reality.....then the cleanup rewrote what the entire world saw with their own eyes.

I don't have the answers - maybe vaccines work - maybe they don't - I kinda went along with the masses - Could it be a full blown 911-like scam job - for sure - I don't know one way or the other. If it is a scam-job then big pharma has the planet over a barrel.

----------


## Derlyn

My brother

From one toppie to another.

At the beginning of this " pandemic " I was scared, thanks to the MSM.
I also sat at home for a week or so.
I had plenty time on my hands and sat glued to the news, scared to go outside unless I wanted to die.

Then along came Prof Doloris Cahill and suggested I carry on with life because this is nothing more than flu.

Then along came Dr Rashid Buttar and challenged anyone who had covid 19 to contact him and he would hug and kiss them.

Then along came Dr Judy Mikovits and confirmed that what we are seeing is nothing more than flu.

Then along came Doctors Martin Kulldorff, Sunetra Gupta, Jay Bhattacharya and countless others who tried their best to calm the fears.

There's one thing all the above mentioned doctors have in common    .....    They have been de platformed by social media platforms. 

My question is simple.   *WHY ?*

I took Prof Cahill's advice and carried on with my life as usual.
So far, so good. I'm starting to believe what she had to say.

Peace out  ..  Derek.

And by the way, I wasn't lying about the eye infection.

----------


## Dave A

There have been a few times in this thread where I have been tempted to say "Darwin is going to have the last laugh on this one."

To quote Prof Edward J Steele - "If we are wrong, we will soon be caught out by reality."
True enough. 

Parts of Australia are about to open up as they approach an 80% vaccinated population rate in many of their major centres. And as he points out, the Australians are not going to have the "naturally developed resilience" he claims is the real reason for Europe's reduced consequences of being infected in their third wave. It will be interesting to see how things play out if/when Covid infections actually do sweep naturally through the vaccinated Australian population as they haven't even had a proper "first wave" yet.

And while on that point, I also think one of the areas where the debate gets crossed up is the issue of *immunity* vs *diminished consequence*. 
Who is claiming that these vaccines provide immunity?

----------


## Andromeda

> Then along came Dr Judy Mikovits and confirmed that what we are seeing is nothing more than flu.


Sorry but that is not a confirmation. It is an opinion, and a very stupid one at that. Who says stupid? I says stupid.




> They have been de platformed by social media platforms.


Because of their stupidly dangerous utterances. Not because they are clever! 


Clive was found dead in bed an estimated 3 months after passing away. It's kind of difficult to know what he went through. That was during the 1st wave.

Eddie is dead. He went to hospital for something completely different and was infected and became ill with Covid 19 and passed away. It was during the 1st wave and before vaccines.

Mark is dead. He was anti vaccine and was of the firm belief that it was a bad case of flu. He was ill at home for 2 weeks before he was hospitalized because his oxygen saturation levels were consistently below 70%, and dropping. He was inn ICU for a further 5 weeks before he suddenly passed away. That was during the 3rd wave.

A different Mark was infected in the 2nd wave. Plenty of comorbidities; he has had three heart attacks, a double bypass and an artificial aortic valve. He has had flu before. Ask him if this disease was like a bad case of flu. I warn you that he is a very large chap (not fat) and you might wish you had a very bad case of flu instead.

Alvin was infected during the 3rd wave. His age group became eligible for the vaccine after he was infected by his brother. His brother died first. Alvin followed weeks later. All in all Alvin was in ICU for 5 weeks. By the time of his passing, his lungs and kidneys were severely damaged. 

Cedric also became infected in the 2nd wave. After recovering and being discharged, he was back in ICU after 48 hours and this time for 3 weeks. He has some lung damage that will take about two years to repair, if it does. He is now fully vaccinated.

Kobus also became infected at the same time. He had less of weight problem and eventually made a full recovery. He too is now fully vaccinated.

Frank, who is the fittest man I know, was infected in the 2nd wave. Although he was never hospitalized he will tell you it is easily the worst infection he has ever experienced. He is still an anti vaxxer because, paradoxically, he has a general fear of the vaccine.

Michelle and her hubby were infected in the 3rd wave. Her hubby recovered. Michelle was discharged from hospital with pulmonary fibrosis. That condition is so severe that she is permanently on oxygen.

Madeleine, a colleague, was infected in the 1st wave and has made some degree of recovery, but is beset by so called long covid issues.

My sister was infected in the 2nd wave but was miraculously asymptomatic. 

With the exception of my sister, every one of these people will clobber you if you imply that Covid is like flu, even bad flu.

----------


## Derlyn

> And while on that point, I also think one of the areas where the debate gets crossed up is the issue of *immunity* vs *diminished consequence*. 
> Who is claiming that these vaccines provide immunity?


That's the thing now. For an injection to be classified or called a vaccine, it *MUST OFFER IMMUNITY*.
The experimental injection presently being administered to the masses has been deceptively called a vaccine in order to deceive people into thinking that it offers immunity. It does not, so cannot be called a vaccine.

_Vaccine

noun
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease._

So lets just call it what it is, namely an injection, an experimental one.

At least I cannot be referred to as an antivaxxer, neither can those who boast about having had it be called vaxholes.
I apologise for using that word when giving my description of the so called " vaccine pass " in an earlier post.

I still think it's a dompas.

Peace out  ..  Derek.

----------


## Dave A

:Hmmm: 

So that got me doing some research. Not as simple as one might think  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Vaccinate vs. Inoculate vs. Immunize: What Are The Differences?

----------


## Derlyn

> So that got me doing some research. Not as simple as one might think 
> 
> “Vaccinate” vs. “Inoculate” vs. “Immunize”: What Are The Differences?


Yep

And the deception continues day in and day out, in broad daylight, by the government, MSM and the majority of the medical fraternity. It is shameful.

That is exactly why I said a while back that I admire people like Dr Susan Vosloo who, irrespective of the consequences, strive to let the truth be known.
It's because of people like her, that I have hope for humanity.

Like Mark Twain said:  "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled"

Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## Dave A

> Yep
> 
> And the deception continues day in and day out, in broad daylight, by the government, MSM and the majority of the medical fraternity.


And you. And me.

So is it deception, or misunderstanding?
For most I suggest it is a failure to properly grasp the full subtleties of the distinctions. For some it is a deliberate misrepresentation.

I still suggest the decision needs to be based on comparative risk/benefit assessments.
*Are the risk consequences of taking a particular vaccine more severe than not taking it* -  on the basis that you are inevitably going to be exposed to Covid-19?
Statistically, for me the answer is obvious.

But then I suppose there are those who believe the statistics are part of the conspiracy...

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Ultimately, Darwin is going to win.

----------


## ians

Something interesting mentioned yesterday while a bunch of people sitting around chatting about the most common topic today ... I mentioned that I cant understand why lets say a person like me who is out and about ... not wearing my mask (unless forced to) and exposed to so many people in and out of buildings ... collecting goods ... filling out pages of registers (when forced to) ... worked in buildings were more than 10 people have tested positive etc etc etc. 

I was told by someone that apparently there is a test which can be done to verify if you need the jab or not ... anyone with information about this test and why they are not doing this test in SA that I know of. 

And apparently if you have already had the first jab for example and test show that you have enough of these things in your body ... you dont have to have the second jab or even the first jab.

All just chit chat around a fire ... so lets not all jump up and down and throw our toys all over the office.

----------


## Blurock

The vaxers and anti-vaxers are both waiting for the other to die so that each can say "I told you so."

Enough bullshit had been posted in this thread to fertilize the whole of South Africa.
Please admit that not even the medical fraternity are 100% sure how to handle this pandemic and everything is still in an experimental stage with added conspiracy theories. 

That is why I can only shake my head in disbelief when I see the opinions and sometimes childish reaction of some members. So what makes you the expert to tell us what to do or not to do?

I will go with Dave and assess the risk of vaxing or not vaxing, because the laws of nature teaches us about cause and effect.

----------


## tec0

> The vaxers and anti-vaxers are both waiting for the other to die so that each can say "I told you so."
> 
> Enough bullshit had been posted in this thread to fertilize the whole of South Africa.
> Please admit that not even the medical fraternity are 100% sure how to handle this pandemic and everything is still in an experimental stage with added conspiracy theories. 
> 
> That is why I can only shake my head in disbelief when I see the opinions and sometimes childish reaction of some members. So what makes you the expert to tell us what to do or not to do?
> 
> I will go with Dave and assess the risk of vaxing or not vaxing, because the laws of nature teaches us about cause and effect.


In the end everyone i know that lost someone is trying to tell others LOOK this thing called Covid 19 is dangerous on its own. The point is so many have died and the numbers are climbing and people are resisting what is essentially good hygiene. In the end it does not matter everyone for themselves and the devil for us all... 

all i do hope for and i really do is i hope all of us survive we have lost enough good people.

----------


## ians

We face the challenge of making the decision to have our daughter jabbed ... because we both have different opinions on the matter ... as legal guardians ...  We have agreed that we will chat to the person who saved both my daughters lives when they were young ... if he says yes we should have it done ... then so be it ... if he says no ... it certainly isnt going to happen regardless of any pressure from school or any other body .. after saving my youngest daughter life ... his words to me ... I am not a GOD ... my hands are merely instrument used to help people ... lets hear what he thinks about a 12 year being jabbed.

----------


## ians

For the record ... my 12 year old will "NOT" be getting the jab ... I got a response from the one and only person I would trust with my children's lives (yes is a real doctor)  ... he would "NOT" recommend she gets the jab right now. 

My only concern is that she will be targeted by the school.

----------


## ians

So lets hear what you all think about your kids and grandkids getting the jab and being bullied by the school rules ... if they dont.

----------


## Derlyn

> So lets hear what you all think about your kids and grandkids getting the jab and being bullied by the school rules ... if they dont.


Ians

After what the following 8 doctors and scientists discussed in a roundtable discussion on 2nd Oct this year, I would say that your doctor has the health of your daughter at heart.
It, in my opinion, not as a doctor, but as someone who has followed ALL the happenings over the last 18 or so months, that you have made a wise decision.

The following discussion is 45 min long but well worth the time spent watching it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0



Peace out  ..  Derek


Edit:  Calling Ivermectin " horse medicine " is like calling water " the stuff that keeps your car engine cool "

----------


## adrianh

Girls get German Measles vaccines as a matter of course. Have you seen what happens to babies born to infected mothers?

We got vaccines when I was at school and also when I was in the army. It was just one of those things and nobody made a big fuss. 

I suppose the fuss here is that the vaccine may not be needed or effective in the long run.

That said, I really don't have the answer on this one - consider that some people circumcise their boys without the kid's approval (Thankfully the government stopped this being done to girls) - (The debate that opens is this: does the guardian and/or the state have the right to interfere with an individuals body without their approval given that they are under the age of consent)

Anyway, I didn't realize that schools are allowed to mandate such things for minors - I wonder what the law says? Is it a public school or a private school?

Dunno Ian - its a tough one!

----------


## tec0

> So lets hear what you all think about your kids and grandkids getting the jab and being bullied by the school rules ... if they dont.


Here is the thing, it doesn't matter if you give your permission or not. ALL CHILDREN fall under the care of government and the government retain ALL RIGHTS. As a parent you can try and challenge but as it stands government has the final say about all children. To date they never really used/enforce this right very harshly unless child neglect/abuse is a factor then YES they WILL take the child. They WILL place that child at a facility that can care for the child. 

So what is your rights as a parent? Well you get all the rights and privileges that comes with being a parent. BUT the moment you do not act in the child's "best interest" then the above becomes a reality. 

In short they cannot make vaccination mandatory on adults but children depending on how far the government will push this "*may not*" have a choice.    

So it is a bit more scary then just a bunch of adults bickering... The government can push for mandatory vaccination and there wouldn't be much we can do about it.

So what i am saying is our opinion/concern and or choice "*may not*" matter

----------


## ians

he "recommends" we dont do it right now ... maybe he knows something we dont and might insist we get it done at a later stage ... so for now there will be no jab.

My concern is the school bully children who dont have it done ... by preventing them from doing certain activities.

----------


## ians

We have been through this before ... the school insisted we had another jab for something else ... we contacted the doctor ... he contacted the school and the problem went away.

----------


## Dave A

I have to say, getting the expert opinion of your family GP is definitely the responsible approach to the dilemma a parent faces here. Good luck to anyone who tries to argue against that...

This is a scary thought though -



> Here is the thing, it doesn't matter if you give your permission or not. ALL CHILDREN fall under the care of government and the government retain ALL RIGHTS. As a parent you can try and challenge but as it stands government has the final say about all children. To date they never really used/enforce this right very harshly unless child neglect/abuse is a factor then YES they WILL take the child. They WILL place that child at a facility that can care for the child. 
> 
> So what is your rights as a parent? Well you get all the rights and privileges that comes with being a parent. BUT the moment you do not act in the child's "best interest" then the above becomes a reality.


Given my fundamental scepticism of Government consistently doing the right thing, the only comfort I have is the courts have a significant say in this too. So not just a government thing. 

And we have a pretty strong civic rights culture that is likely to step up and assist where government gets too far out of line.

----------


## adrianh

> he "recommends" we dont do it right now ... maybe he knows something we dont and might insist we get it done at a later stage ... so for now there will be no jab.
> 
> My concern is the school bully children who dont have it done ... by preventing them from doing certain activities.


Tough one - You say "Bully her" and they say "Protect others" - Dunno

----------


## GCE

If I had kids in that age group I would definitely seriously consider the jab for them and with research coming out of Israel and UK it appears it is good to go.

If they were in the 16 to 18 year group and looking to finish school this year or next they would be in the queue today to get the Jab so they could continue and not miss out on schooling 
If they were 12 to 16 I might hold on for a month but get them done before school starts next year 
There have already been research projects done and viewed by peers within the medical profession for that decision to be made.The numbers speak for themselves.

At the moment there is an article out that puts 12 people in the world creating 65% of the anti vax views - For every so called Medical expert shouting anti vax there are 100 medical professionals trained in virology supporting vax. I will continue letting the numbers point me in the correct direction.

----------


## GCE

> That's the thing now. For an injection to be classified or called a vaccine, it *MUST OFFER IMMUNITY*.
> The experimental injection presently being administered to the masses has been deceptively called a vaccine in order to deceive people into thinking that it offers immunity. It does not, so cannot be called a vaccine.
> 
> _Vaccine
> 
> noun
> a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease._
> 
> So lets just call it what it is, namely an injection, an experimental one.
> ...


You make the statement that the vaccine must offer immunity before it can be called a vaccine . The vaccine provides that immunity as defined , it does not offer 100% resistance but does resist the " toxin " 

If you look up the meaning of " provide immunity"_ the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells_.

----------


## tec0

> I have to say, getting the expert opinion of your family GP is definitely the responsible approach to the dilemma a parent faces here. Good luck to anyone who tries to argue against that...
> 
> This is a scary thought though -
> 
> Given my fundamental scepticism of Government consistently doing the right thing, the only comfort I have is the courts have a significant say in this too. So not just a government thing. 
> 
> And we have a pretty strong civic rights culture that is likely to step up and assist where government gets too far out of line.


In the end we will see where this will go... Me personally, when it was me getting the vaccination, i personally felt it is fine for me. I do understand that children are different. It is a very difficult situation for any parent as they would only want the safest and best option for their children. This i completely respect and understand. That said, with so many governments in the world pushing for mandatory vaccination it would not surprise me *IF* our government start the push at this stage. That said so far give it to our current government... Despite all shortcomings/reports of corruption and so on, they really are trying their very best give us the safest options available. They diligently tested the vaccinations before making them available to the public. So i doubt they will make it mandatory but again nothing is written in stone.

----------


## ians

A friend who travels a lot ... arrived home 2 weeks ago ... we had a chat about covid and the jab etc ... he indicated that it isnt even an option if you want to travel ... he has a dom pass on his phone ... a quick visit for a test and he goes where ever he needs to go ... without it ... it becomes a nightmare.

----------


## Derlyn

*Vaccination of children.*

What does the law actually say ?

The Children's Act Part 3, section 129.

(2) A child may consent to his or her medical treatment or to the medical treatment of his or her child if -

(a) the child is over the age of 12 years; *and*
(b) the child is of sufficient maturity and has the mental capacity to understand the benefits, risks, social and other implications of the treatment.

So both a and b above must be taken into account before any medical treatment may be administered.
Who decides on the maturity and mental capacity of the child. The State or the parent ?
Each child must be evaluated to see if they conform.
Something to think about.

When the medical treatment includes an operation, then both (a) and (b) above are applicable *and*
(c) the child is duly assisted by his or her parent or guardian.

I can see some court cases in future where children have received treatment against the wishes of their parents.

Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## ians

We have already experienced and issue with a school in the past ... a call the Quack ...  he then responds with a call to the school and the problem went away. 

Just like you dont phone a plumber when there is a burning smell coming out your DB ... the same with this virus ... as a parent I am not educated or experienced enough to make the call ... so I called the one person who I would trust with a decision like this ... he would have a much better understanding of what is going on than I do ... so for now I have now choice but to take his advice .. in the past 29 years I am yet to hear of him making a bad decision.

----------


## ians

Interesting 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ0q...el=MorningShot

----------


## tec0

No. 38 of 2005: Children's Act, 2005. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c_XR_sfCkM




In the end as a 15 year old just told me "not your body, not your problem i will do what is best for me" So there you have it... The 15 year old simply said "i will talk to my doctor and ask my doctor if it is safe" 

Sounds like an idea... 

anyhow i am done with this topic.

----------


## Derlyn

The big picture is starting to emerge. 


Dr Herman Edeling is a well respected neurosurgeon. 
Some might say he is not suitably qualified to offer an opinion on this subject, but that is to be expected.

Anyway, tonight he laid out a couple of irrefutable facts while being interviewed.

I ask myself why he and other well respected surgeons like Dr Susan Vosloo ( heart surgeon ) would lay their reputations and careers on the line to say what they say.

According to Dr Edeling,  Vitimin I ( the one that was originally discovered and produced for human use ) is now legally available on prescription from your doctor.
All the details are supplied in the following interview.

https://lovinglifetv.com/live-wrong-...erman-edeling/


Peace out   ...   Derek

----------


## Dave A

And then you get footage like this -

CNN Confronted An Anti-Vaxxer Doctor, Who Is One Of The Biggest Spreaders Of COVID-19 Disinformation Online, And Things Got Uncomfortable

Yes, the big picture is starting to emerge. I was particularly struck by the observation that medical boards are not delicencing medical professionals even when there is blatant tampering with evidence / intentional deception and misrepresentation.

Bottom line, there is way too much bs being peddled here and even when it is proven nonsense, people are going to believe what they want to anyway.

I think it is time to give this topic a rest (probably way past time actually), and see where things have moved in about 6 months time. Sooner or later the body count is going to add up and show who has been getting it wrong...

----------

Blurock (02-Dec-21)

----------


## adrianh

> This is the conversation that I am having right now on my phone with a friend.
> 
> I hope that you are enjoying it - I will send him your regards! 
> 
> Attachment 8324


An update......

His wife just messaged me via Whatsapp

He passed away today from COVID...

----------


## Derlyn

So sorry to hear

----------


## adrianh

> So sorry to hear


Thank you!

----------


## Derlyn

Pleasure

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## Derlyn

*Rave Cancelled.*  Hot off the press.

All the ravers who have been waiting patiently for December to arrive and have gone through the whole exersize of proving that they have been double vaxxed and are free of the dreaded virus are bitterly dissappointed that Rave has been cancelled.

After a brilliant piece of investigative journalism, Roman Cabanac from Morningshot put together the following gem, which I'm sure even a grade 3 pupil will fully understand and grasp.

Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dy2ZMT1v-g


Peace out  ..  Derek

----------


## Blurock

Time to close this thread. We are going round in circles. 
Those for the vaccine are waiting for the anti-vaxers to die so that they can say "I told you so" and the ant-vaxers are waiting for the vaxers tod die so they can say "I told you so."

----------

tec0 (03-Dec-21)

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## Dave A

After listening to that, maybe I need to buy some more Aspen shares  :Stick Out Tongue: 

The vaccination "debate" speaks at crossed purposes most of the time.

Anti-vax drive the point that vaccine mandates do not prevent transmission, and in this instance has not kept the "Rage" business open.

Pro-vax drive the point that vaccination reduces transmission and consequences of becoming infected.

As long as the anti-vax demand prevention as the standard to justify vaccination mandates, and ignore any lesser benefit, it is clear there will be no shutting them up. Is it so important to win the argument that you cannot allow for any benefit short of absolute elimination to be recognised?

----------

tec0 (03-Dec-21)

----------


## tec0

> Time to close this thread. We are going round in circles. 
> Those for the vaccine are waiting for the anti-vaxers to die so that they can say "I told you so" and the ant-vaxers are waiting for the vaxers tod die so they can say "I told you so."


The way people are gearing up for the holiday and judging on the mass amounts of alcohol that people are taking home... All i can say is keep your eyes open for drunk drivers and with all the cars not having number plates hit and runs is going to become a BIG problem. Our already stressed health facilities is about to get a hammering and not just because of Covid. All i can say is be safe. 




> After listening to that, maybe I need to buy some more Aspen shares 
> 
> The vaccination "debate" speaks at crossed purposes most of the time.
> 
> Anti-vax drive the point that vaccine mandates do not prevent transmission, and in this instance has not kept the "Rage" business open.
> 
> Pro-vax drive the point that vaccination reduces transmission and consequences of becoming infected.
> 
> As long as the anti-vax demand prevention as the standard to justify vaccination mandates, and ignore any lesser benefit, it is clear there will be no shutting them up. Is it so important to win the argument that you cannot allow for any benefit short of absolute elimination to be recognised?


I think we all know that mandatory vaccinations will become a thing and i know our government will have to consider it because South Africa is a tourist destination after all. It is how many are generating an income. i recall business tech reporting on:  Why Discovery introduced mandatory vaccines in South Africa  and why some workers said no 

The problem is people will carry resentment and that will escalate and show in the elections. BUT businesses must make a choice, It is mandatory for a business to create a safe environment for workers. It is why we have rules regulations, regulators and safety standards. All these existed before the pandemic and it will exist after the pandemic. The problem is if your entire work force gets sick because of a few individuals then this will become a serious topic in the end. Sending everyone home and allow them to work from home WILL BECOME THE NORM because they don't want the responsibility and rather then having to play with politics they may as well mitigate and downscale. We will see more and more businesses downscale and work from home will be here to stay because this pandemic is not going away by itself. 

My take on all this is get a comfy mask or two. Keep them clean we will be needing them for the foreseeable future  :Whistling:

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## ians

If raves are being cancelled (due to the high positive test rate)  and the infection rate is climbing faster than the petrol price ... why are the schools still open ?

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## ians

Make your own choices ... open your mind and allow your mind to steer you in the direction you choose ... at least that way you wont sit back and go I should have or shouldn't have ... if you feel the jab is the right thing ... go do it ... if you dont ... dont let anyone force you to make a decision ... at the end of the day you will suffer the consequences of your action ... right or wrong. 

I chose to ride a really fast motor cycle at one point in my life ... my mates were so so confident that I would kill myself ... that 1 million life insurance policies where a better bet than the lotto ... I also knew that if I went down ... I wouldnt survive ... so I didnt bother wearing leathers ... 75 000 km later  ... I slip down the road after filling up with petrol ... I got diesel on the tyres while filling up ... I went down as I left the garage at about 5 km/hr ... R25000 damage to the bike ... 1 small surface scratch on my leg (because I was wearing shorts) 

By the way with the infection rate sky rocketing due to all the tesing being carried out ... I did confirm with the doctor (one of the most respected doctors) this morning ... my 13 year old will NOT be getting a jab just yet ... not saying she will never be ... just not until he gives me the go ahead ... today will be her last day at school ... I shouldnt have eve sent her to school today. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBm...b_channel=AMTV

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## ians

I have been trying to make sense of this virus (doubt I ever will) ...something that keeps popping up ... blood clots.

Swollen ankles and obesity ... jab or no jab shouldnt how many people are taking care of their health ... it seems the focus is on the jab ... but nothing about eating right ... stress and exercise etc. 

From what I have read and watched ... this variant is going to spread like a wild fire ... regardless of the measure put in place ... what are you doing to make sure you have a fighting chance ?

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## Dave A

> Swollen ankles and obesity ... jab or no jab shouldnt how many people are taking care of their health ... it seems the focus is on the jab ... but nothing about eating right ... stress and exercise etc.


One mate of mine that has succumbed to this virus was (as his wife puts it) a gym bunny and fit as a fiddle. He was properly into healthy living and eating. Got the virus and after nearly 4 weeks in hospital, succumbed. (Unvaccinated BTW). Seems having comorbidities massively increases the risk of not surviving being infected, but being healthy doesn't seem to provide absolute protection.

So if we take the anti-vax "absolute prevention" standard, does that mean don't bother to stay healthy?




> From what I have read and watched ... this variant is going to spread like a wild fire ... regardless of the measure put in place ... what are you doing to make sure you have a fighting chance ?


Indeed! That is the question.

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## Justloadit

If there are symptoms from taking the vaccine, surely it would be better to treat it at that time, in which there is no virus in your body yet, versus getting the Covid, and realizing your body is in trouble by being weakened by the virus itself, so treatment makes it far mode difficult and precarious?

What I often see is that patients are unaware of underlying medical issue until they get the vaccine. Getting Covid is often the killer as by then it is too late.

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## ians

We can argue this all day long ... many years ago back in my wild days ... I lived life on the absolute edge ... when I think back I dont know how I am still here ... back then no covid ... however there were all the other scary things like HIV and aids and cancer and other scary things killing people ... being a single male doing bike rallys and other naughty stuff certainly certainly had their risks.

But more important ... I had a friend 30 years old ... never been to a nite club ... married her school sweat heart ... never smoked anything not even a cigarette ... had all the jabs at birth ...  battling to bear a child ... decided to go the adoption route ... eventually got a child after 2 years of fighting for the new born promised to them. 

She wasnt feeling so great one morning ... went to the quack ... had a few tests done ... found she had cancer ... went on holiday ... returned from the holiday .. had a small op to sort out the cancer ... doctor closed her up and gave her less than 6 months to live ... she died 2 years later.

She was so angry with me because all she wanted was to live her simple life ... have a child ...  look after her husband ... go to work everyday (had done well for herself ... high up in the bank management) ... go to church on sunday and just live ... she would hear me riding down the road and listen to the stories of stuff I was getting up to ... she would cry and beat me on the chest ... angry that I was so reckless and inconsiderate.

I am going to say it again ... make your choice in life ... if there is only one thing certain in life ... you going to die at some point ... be it from covid ... cancer ... HIV ... hit by a car ... killed in a hijacking ... do what you feel is right ... the facilities are there and its free.

I have just been told a person who has become a good friend has cancer ... not covid ... and he has had the jab. 

I had a friend pass away last week ... was it because she didnt have the jab ... no. 

IF you get the jab ... will it prevent the spread of the virus ... yes or no ? 

If you get the jab will it prevent you from getting the new variant ... yes or no ? 

If you get the jab will life go back to normal ... yes or no ? 

Is the virus going to spread like wild fire if everyone gets the jab ... yes or no ?

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## Derlyn

No   ...   no  ...  no  ...  dunno.

Enjoy the day.
Almost weekend.

Derek.

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## Derlyn

For all the toppies who have not yet been jabbed, Now's your golden opportunity.

The Vuma carrot, I mean voucher / bribe, has been increased.

Was R100 for over 60's.
Now R200 for over 50's.

Don't be in too much of a hurry. I hear it's going to be reviewed soon again, when the next variant / scariant arrives.
I believe the 5th wave will be here about the beginning of April 2022, Just in time for April fools day.

Peace out .. Derek.

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## Andromeda

The following was written by Rachel Clarke, a palliative care doctor in the NHS and published by The Daily Mail. 

Also https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...cine-n2l8r2wcj

_I suppress a howl of disbelief. She would rather die than get a Covid vaccine

Some 75 per cent of those suffocating in intensive care with the coronavirus are unvaccinated

About 850 people have died with Covid-19 in the past seven days in the UK

She is young, ashen and fighting for her life, and all I can offer is morphine. Recent chemotherapy has sent her blood count crashing. The drugs that could cure her breast cancer are so toxic to her body that even an innocuous infection could be fatal. As she flinches from the pain of taking a breath, I know that her raw, inflamed lung is scraping against the wall of her chest, making each gasp an ordeal.

I also know that somewhere at home, two little girls and their distraught father sit and wait in a house that rattles and gapes with the absence of their mummy.

“I need to be with them,” she rasps. “How soon?”

Although Ellen, as I’ll call her, gulps oxygen from the pipe on the wall, her pneumonia prevents her from talking in full sentences. I focus on getting her pain relief right, vital for enabling proper deep breathing, which allows me to suppress my private howl of disbelief.

Ellen, in her mid-thirties and with everything to live for, trusts her doctors to administer an antibiotic so potent that it is nicknamed Domestos; painkillers ten times more potent than opium; and chemotherapy literally designed to kill living human cells, a cytotoxic poison. Yet she will not, under any circumstances, countenance having a Covid vaccine. Her refusal makes me want to weep. The only thing worse than a young person’s death is one which easily could have been avoided. Thankfully, on this occasion Ellen’s chest infection is not Covid. But what about the next, and the one after that?

Does she not know how many unvaccinated young men and women with intact immune systems are suffocating to death in the intensive care unit one floor above her? How dumbfounded they were to discover that they were, after all, vulnerable to Covid? How they beg, sometimes, breaking all our hearts, to be vaccinated? How they plead for the protection they hope a jab might bring — when it is far too late for that now and all we can offer is a ventilator?

Ellen, I want to plead, how can you not choose life? For your children, for yourself, please be jabbed. You are so vulnerable I can hardly bear it. I say nothing, of course. Now is not the time. But I wonder for the thousandth time how we have arrived here, in this madness: a place where intelligent men and women would rather catch a deadly infectious disease than accept a vaccine with exceptional, and demonstrable, safety and effectiveness.

Now, in my NHS trust, we once again have entire wards devoted to treating Covid patients, in addition to those on mechanical ventilation in ICU. We are giving our all to care for our share of the 8,000 patients in UK hospitals with Covid. Out of sight, out of mind, these patients quietly continue to die at a rate of about 1,000 a week. The public can almost pretend they are not there. But we can’t.
Colleagues have seen children orphaned when first an unvaccinated mother and then an unvaccinated father succumb to Covid in swift succession. Pregnant, intubated women have died in intensive care shortly after their babies were delivered by emergency caesarean section.

Of the Covid patients treated in intensive care in recent months, the majority — nearly 75 per cent according to the latest data — have chosen not to be vaccinated. As Professor Andrew Pollard, director of the Oxford Vaccine Group, put it this week: “This ongoing horror, which is taking place across ICUs in Britain, is now largely restricted to unvaccinated people.”

Individual decisions to forgo vaccination are having inevitable consequences for everyone else. In my NHS trust, we are on permanent black alert. We have already converted every conceivable spare space — discharge lounges, offices, oversized broom cupboards — into extra wards for patients. There is no spare capacity whatsoever.

The maths is brutal. One in, one out. Unless this patient leaves, that one cannot enter. The ambulance queue snakes around A&E, with paramedics sometimes spending an entire 12-hour shift stuck on the hospital forecourt, unable to drop off their patient. Trapped people are dying of heart attacks and strokes in the back of stationary ambulances, to the horror of all involved in trying to care for them.

In this desperate context, as patients suffer across the NHS, I can well understand the anger some clinicians feel towards the unvaccinated. I do not share it, however. The bedrock of good medicine is treating your patient simply as a human being in need. The moment you start making value judgments about what has brought them into hospital — smoking, paragliding, breaking the speed limit or riding a horse — you are not behaving as a doctor.

With our unvaccinated Covid patients, I feel more than anything desolate, heartbroken. I simply hate seeing them die. And I know they are here, in part, because a torrent of disinformation, spewed out on social media, has made them too scared to have the vaccine.

My rage is reserved for the charlatans who use their platforms to sow mistruths at such terrible cost. For the clever commentators who have latched on to the antivaxer movement to score political points by whipping up an ideological reaction to what they dub “vaccine dictatorship”.

These people are liars and cynics with blood on their hands.

Rachel Clarke is an NHS palliative care doctor
_

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Dave A (04-Dec-21)

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## ians

Please add the link to the article ... found it 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i...cine-n2l8r2wcj

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Andromeda (04-Dec-21)

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## adrianh

My wife returned from the UK yesterday after having been stuck there for 2 years. She cares for the elderly so she continued to work during that period. She will be in South Africa for 6 weeks and then she is back to work in the UK. The loss of income and cost of the quarantine when she returns amounts to about R70k in SA money)  She brought her Covid-19 tests with her. The tests are given away for free at the local pharmacies in the UK. You simply walk in, take a pack (7 tests) and walk out. Those are the exact same tests that are administered here for anything between R385- R1,500 each. I woke up this morning to her testing herself - I find it interesting how testing oneself has become a way of life for the carers and those in the medical profession in the UK. 



My youngest daughter tried to get her 2nd vaccine last week. She went to three vaccination centres in Cape Town last week and she was turned away from all three for various reasons. One closed, one doesn't vaccinate without an appointment and the third only vaccinates its own staff (...this is actually where she got the 1st vaccine). I spoke to my GP and he isn't allowed to vaccinate her (the government holds the keys to the vaccine locker)

Its a stark contrast - getting vaccinated (my wife has had 3) and doing the self tests is a way of life for many in the UK - Getting tested and or vaccinated is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE in South Africa unless you are willing to spend a lot of money and waste a lot of time driving around from location to location.

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## ians

Glad to hear she is home ... enjoy the 6 weeks with her ... it will be gone in the blink of an eye.

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## Derlyn

Oh, how I love her !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1sZzMHWBug

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## ians

One of the reasons I am still here in SA and enjoy living here ... is my freedom of choice and movement ... the more I learn about CCTV cameras and what you  can do with them ...  track people as they move and at the same time listen to ever word they are saying ... the more I feel my freedom of choice and movement being taken away ... most people are not aware of mics on cameras installed in public places ... watching one of the bourne movies and the way the do facial recognition and track people back when the movie came out just seemed so hi tech.

Every single thing you do on a device is tracked and recorded and in many cases used to dump rubbish in your space ... you think you are free ... do something wrong and you will realise how much of your daily life is being tracked. 

When you look around and realise how you are constantly being watched and recorded ... we are becoming like Truman show ... your freedom to make choices the way you are labelled ... censored in what you can say and how engage with offers .. is become so restricted it is actually quite scary.

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## tec0

> One of the reasons I am still here in SA and enjoy living here ... is my freedom of choice and movement ... the more I learn about CCTV cameras and what you  can do with them ...  track people as they move and at the same time listen to ever word they are saying ... the more I feel my freedom of choice and movement being taken away ... most people are not aware of mics on cameras installed in public places ... watching one of the bourne movies and the way the do facial recognition and track people back when the movie came out just seemed so hi tech.
> 
> Every single thing you do on a device is tracked and recorded and in many cases used to dump rubbish in your space ... you think you are free ... do something wrong and you will realise how much of your daily life is being tracked. 
> 
> When you look around and realise how you are constantly being watched and recorded ... we are becoming like Truman show ... your freedom to make choices the way you are labelled ... censored in what you can say and how engage with offers .. is become so restricted it is actually quite scary.


In the end it is not going to matter much, companies globally are removing freedoms at the work place. One such example is Amazon and if you realize how bad they actually are, you realize that the world is becoming a virtual trap. Well it is their world i just live here.

Here is a old video that really allow us to see what our future is going to look like.

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## ians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6hU...r.JohnCampbell

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## tec0

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6hU...r.JohnCampbell


Don't think it is going to be a relevant problem soon. I recall reading this a while ago. Not sure where they are yet with it but it will be much simpler treatment.

Pfizer’s Novel COVID-19 Oral Antiviral Treatment Candidate Reduced Risk of Hospitalization or Death by 89% in Interim Analysis of Phase 2/3 EPIC-HR Study

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## ians

> In the end it is not going to matter much, companies globally are removing freedoms at the work place. One such example is Amazon and if you realize how bad they actually are, you realize that the world is becoming a virtual trap. Well it is their world i just live here.
> 
> Here is a old video that really allow us to see what our future is going to look like.


Humans are generally lazy ... eat to much crap ... dont exercise enough and expect a everything to be handed on a plate to them ... and its just getting worse ... it easier to get it delivered ... throw in a pandemic and people are just rolling over and giving up. 

I dont understand how people think ... if you are not happy with your job go work somewhere else ... and if you still not happy go work for yourself ... thats what I did 30 years ago ... I started with a company wasnt happy so I moved to another company ... I then moved to another company got as much experience as I could ... then moved to another company to gain  experience in the industrial environment ...  they screwed me so I moved to another  company ... I learnt as much as I could from that company and once again moved ... the last company was a dead end job so I decided to start my own company ... was told it would never work ... well here I sit going on 31 years.  

I look at the sweet trolley loaded with crap waiting to unload the toxic waste on the kids ... just look around.

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## ians

People complain they dont have food .. yet they have a R20k phone on contract and pay insurance on it every month  ... a DSTV dish on the roof and drive a car they cant afford ... and some are standing in a line with a phone in their pocket which costs R550 per month with calls and data ... to get R350 at the post office. 

You can only shake your head and smile.

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## Derlyn

Fortunately for me, at the age of 40, some 23 years ago, I was taught by an old Indian gentleman, Mr Rama, not to succumb to social constructionism.

I am eternally gratefull to him for giving me the best, most carefree,  enjoyable, 23 years of my life so far and that's how it's gonna be until the day I go home.

Peace out  ..  Derek

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## ians

I did check with the one doctor who I trust with all my kids lives ... and he still said "no" to the jab for my 13 year old. 

But now we have a small problem ... its seems the school she will be going to next year is putting pressure on us to make sure she has the jab before she starts next year  :Frown:   :Frown:   :Frown:  maybe the schools are being offered a "small incentive" to enforce the jab ... who knows. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi56...el=MorningShot

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## Derlyn

> I did check with the one doctor who I trust with all my kids lives ... and he still said "no" to the jab for my 13 year old. 
> 
> But now we have a small problem ... its seems the school she will be going to next year is putting pressure on us to make sure she has the jab before she starts next year    maybe the schools are being offered a "small incentive" to enforce the jab ... who knows. 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi56...el=MorningShot


Yes.  Focus is now shifting from us old toppies to the children.

There are presently plenty teachers without jobs. Find one or two of them to home school your children.
I know it's easier said than done, but stand by your decision and principles and don't give in to their demands.

Derek

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## ians

Reality check ... its seems positive test results have become like the Oprah show ... a positive for you ... one for you and maybe one for you you can have one to ... now my family has become one of the lucky recipients.

Did the right thing this morning and contacted everyone who I have come into contact with and will be be shut down until Christmas day good opportunity for me to catch up with stuff around the house and to stay away from the shops  :Wink:  

Ever single person I have spoken to has said the same thing ... it seems if you even have an itchy  nose you will test positive ... the symptoms are so mild that most people will not even bother going for a test ... which will result in a mass spread ... maybe not such a bad thing. 

I am going to ask this question ... has anyone actually got sick ... other than an scratchy nose and maybe a cough ... lasting 2 days at most ... something I have notice is how you feel lazy to do shyte ... but even that 2 days rest a pile of vitamins and you ready to go again.

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## adrianh

Ian, 5 people at my daughter's work got sick in the past 2 weeks. The one 22 year old is REALLY REALLY sick.

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## Derlyn

We, in SA are fortunate to still have one or two doctors who have not been captured.

One such doctor is Dr Shankara Chetty from Port Edward in Kwazulu Natal.
He has treated in excess of 9000 critically ill rona patients during the last year and EVERY ONE of them recovered quickly without needing to go to hospital.
Not one mortality.

The explanation of his protocol can be seen in the attached video.

This video is quite long,  1hr and 30 minutes but I urge you to take the time to check it out and make up your own mind.
After watching this video, I'm sure everyone will have a much better understanding of the present rona situation.

Obviously, this video lasted exactly 2 days on youtube before being taken down.

https://odysee.com/@heddahenrik:b/Mo...AOGvO40W0UNsbM

Peace out   ...   Derek

Edit:  This interview was 4 days ago.

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## tec0

> Ian, 5 people at my daughter's work got sick in the past 2 weeks. The one 22 year old is REALLY REALLY sick.


i hope they get better and soon, this thing is no joke. 

In the end i don't want people to fall ill but i wish they would be more considerate and truly understand that no conspiracy can benefit from wiping out the entire human race. I am no scientist i am no doctor but judging from the social media and how people are pushing back against the vaccination i must say i find it hard to understand. See as long as their is push-backs there will be more mutations and judging from the latest mutation it is getting worse. But it has a breeding ground so it has the opportunity and as long as that is true no one is truly safe. If humanity truly stood up and got vaccinated as fast as possible so many lives could have been saved. So many people i will miss very dearly never even had the chance to get vaccinated and the treatments at the time wasn't as effective as it is now, but even now people still die. It is important to note and it is important to really understand that we are fighting something that only has 1 goal and that is to end life. It cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be ignored. The pandemic is real and yet some still believe that the pandemic needs their permission first. It doesn't... It will exist without their recognition and as long as people refuse to fight back we have a big problem on our hands. 

In the end i did what i believed to be the right thing. Getting vaccinated in my opinion was a good call. When the next booster comes out i will be ready to take it. It is not "that bad" and in the end it is for the greater good. In South Africa we had 90 172 in counting. That is 90 172 devastated families.  

At this point i digress... Time will show us how this thing is going to play out.

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Andromeda (16-Dec-21)

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## adrianh

tec0 - I think that one simply has to accept that 1% of people will be smugly obtuse about everything in life, no matter what it is. 99% of people waste a lot of time addressing that 1%.... it is a waste of time!

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tec0 (17-Dec-21)

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## Derlyn

Hello All

Well, it has been just a little over a year since the last post regarding this subject on mRNA vaccines.

A lot of data has come out over the last 12 months and I think that everyone who takes their health seriously should watch the following interview that Tucker Carlson conducted with Dr Aseem Malhotra just a couple of days ago.

With censoring as it is, I do not know for how much longer this interview will be available on youtube.

My take is that the doctor seems to know what he's talking about and there's more to this subject than meets the eye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3MPnBpfrRk

Greetings   ...   Derek

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## Dave A

:Hmmm:  Tucker Carlson...

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## Derlyn

:Big Grin:  :Big Grin:  :Big Grin: 

Hi Dave. Hope you enjoying your break. Back to work for me tomorrow.

Don't worry about Tucker. The interview isn't about him.
Listen to what the doctor with the titles has to say.

Cheers   ...   Derek.

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## Isetech

Anyone noticed that suddenly Aids has become the highlight of the news, since covid was the highlight, there was no need to mention HIV and aids because the medical industry was too busy taking care of all the people holding their ankle with a piece of cloth over their mouths  :Frown: .  The pharma industry certainly know to get people to hold their ankles and resize them a new butt hole. 

You gotta laugh at how stupid humans are, take another pill it will solve all your problems.

In reality if they just cut back on pills and all the crap they eat, scrapped medical aid (the biggest scam in history), grow a few veggies in the garden and go for a walk every morning, life would great. I talk form experience. Been conned with the statins and bullshyte about cholesterol. I suppose if humans weren't so gullible the pharma industry would only be a multi billion dollar industry. Dont get me wrong, not all medicine is a money making racket. 

We heading into 2023, open your eyes, dont everything you read on the internet,  watch what you put in your mouth, stretch as much as you can and go for a walk, I promise you will want to get up every morning and watch the sunrise  :Wink:

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Desert Man (27-Dec-22)

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## Desert Man

Here is a short video by Dr Suneel Dhand that I thought worthwhile sharing

https://youtu.be/Myp1R6qa0fA

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Derlyn (31-Dec-22)

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## Derlyn

Thanks for that, Desert Man. Dr Dhand hits the nail on the head.
I have previously commented on this platform about not taking Wikipedia seriously.

All you need to do is speak to someone who has a Wikipedia page.
They will themselves tell you how inaccurate it is.

Happy New Year.

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Desert Man (02-Jan-23)

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## Derlyn

Well it seems as if as more data becomes available, the big picture is becoming clearer and clearer.

It does seem as if the mRNA medications are not that beneficial after all.

I have been following the debates in British Parliament and quite honestly, I find it hard to believe that there are still people 
out there that believe these jabs to be safe, efficient and effective.

Even someone like Dr John Campbell who has been dissecting all data and peer reviewed studies regarding mRNA was
visibly shocked by what has come out during these debates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MSKzoI72eU

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