# General Business Category > Business Finance Forum >  Why money is tight

## Dave A

Take a moment to read this story on Sasol holding on to cash. This bit in particular highlights where I'm heading



> Sasol ended December 2008 with cash of R22.7 billion, an eightfold increase compared with the end of December 2007.


although the whole article tells a story. Despite wholesome profits and plenty of cash reserves, Sasol does not even plan to pay its *dividend* in cash, rather considering issuing shares instead. 

So how much of the local credit crunch is due to the GFM? 
What are the cumulative effects of big corporates like Sasol sitting on bigger cash reserves and putting capital projects on hold?

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## Graeme

So many of the really big companies are either not paying a dividend, or reducing them -  Anglo American has just passed its dividend for the first time in 70 years!  They all seem to want to hoard cash.  One possible (but not stated) reason is that there could be some juicy mergers or take-overs of cash strapped companies being planned for some future date.  Back in the 1930's when circumstances were similar here was a huge flurry of these take-overs.

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## Dave A

And pulling back on spend and payout is making those potential targets even more cash-strapped!

So if this is such good strategy, why did the Sasol share price drop on the news? In the medium term Sasol's prospects should be looking even stronger.

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## Graeme

SASOL is widely traded on bourses overseas and all manner of considerations come into play, not the least of which is the price of crude, the extent of reserves of petrol/diesel in various countries and the value of the Rand.  Trying to make _short-term_ predictions on the share price of a huge and complex company like SASOL is rather like trying to make accurate short-term predictions of the weather.

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## Dave A

> Trying to make _short-term_ predictions on the share price of a huge and complex company like SASOL is rather like trying to make accurate short-term predictions of the weather.


Compared to predicting seasons?

Your preference for strategic investment rather than speculation shows  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Frankincense

@Graeme 
"One possible (but not stated) reason is that there could be some juicy mergers or take-overs of cash strapped companies being planned for some future date. Back in the 1930's when circumstances were similar here was a huge flurry of these take-overs."

As if they would mention they are doing it again....It's commonly known that these Giants withold all good things to drop others to thier knees and buy them up at a song. Just look at money supply in the 1930's and the crimes of the Federal reserve - OMG -they're still doing it... :Yawn: ...moving along...) 

I'm so pleased you reffered to the 1930's...that has been such a Cornerstone of the current New World Order finalisation. A remarkable achievement and any group of wealthy men wishing to control a planet with some people on it can take a leaf outta the Fed's hat. The USA Fed really perfected thier Sh*t on that one....and the current GFM is business as usuall...

Sasol is but one of the many communicating participants in the GFM..they are  all together in this...it's not a USA or Europe thing that we may feel or maybe not....it's the same folk controlling the same stocks & boards...

Actually the Global Financial Meltdown is a farse....as the same people who are making the most money, continue and are making trillions off it..nothing of thier Finances melted down at all! :Applaud: 

I'd say the GFM is the deliberate meltdown of National Indepence of currencies as we are being forced to unify currencies into ONE...with ONE Government and one Financial system with everybody on it....

Sasol...I got you :Yes:

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## Dave A

I am sitting here pretty much speechless.

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## sgafc

Just sitting here and pondering if resources/ cash is really so scarce? True, the "recession" is biting all of us, but...Sasol is cash flushed, Sars a few percentages short of it target, R600 billion plus, but 3 years ago it exceeded its target of R300billion, my maths might not be accurate, but thats not the issue. Issue is some companies/ establishements are actually doing well in the "recession"(read Rhema's earnings). Truth is, we living in a world of abundance, trillions ($) circulate the globe daily. Food is in abundant supply, and the world, Africa especially, has untapped resources. Problem is, cash, minerals and food is controlled and hoarded, in the wrong hands mostly, of corporations and governments, that could not care a hoot about the rest of us...

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Dave A (03-Apr-09)

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## Dave A

Aha! Now that's thinking this through.

Think about it. An economy is about the *flow* of money which is something rather different to the *amount* of money in the system.

Value is driven by sentiment - so we understand why value has gone walkabout. But cash is another story.

Is the problem that the money has gone, or is it simply getting stuck?

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## sgafc

My Economics I , teaches," Inflation is too much money chasing to few goods".

Reality is: To little money( tight, ) chasing to many goods!

Who is lying? Who reduces the money in circulation? Ask the banks, ask SARS, who stubbornly refuses to settle refunds of taxes, and break their own laws, by refusing to pay interest on arrears if they do indeed settle. You right Dave, that "flow" or lack of it,is killing economies...

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## Graeme

Your Economics I teaches also that a Countries' wealth is measured by the amount of money in circulation _multiplied_ by the speed at which it circulates.

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## Frankincense

"Ask the banks, ask SARS, who stubbornly refuses to settle refunds of taxes, and break their own laws, by refusing to pay interest on arrears if they do indeed settle. You right Dave, that "flow" or lack of it,is killing economies..."

I've studied the same Economics I etc, but more importantly have done some of my sentence in a Bank....You are forgetting the most important part: Banks also intend killing you and your families. But I've been saying that for a while already...good to see who you want to ask  why they kill economies...lmao

Economy - The word economy can be traced back to the Greek word oikonomos, "one who manages a household," derived from oikos, "house," and nemein, "to manage."

You should agree now Banks are killing economies(the management of a household - You and your families!)

"The Great Depression created a widespread misconception that market economies are inherently unstable and must be managed by the government to avoid large macreconomic fluctuations, that is, business cycles. This view persists to this day despite the more than 40 years since Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz showed convincingly that the Federal Reserveâs monetary policies were largely to blame for the severity of the Great Depression." 

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/feat...lton-friedman/ 

" The financial world has changed since the Friedman and Schwartz analyzed the mis-steps of the Great Depression and the definition of money has changed as well."
"When the non-conventional sources of âmoneyâ are included, the money supply is actually decreasing, not increasing"

http://www.kanundrum.com/blog1/?p=1084

  ( how pathetic economics is today  - Satan forbids that aspirant economic students at our tertiaries actually realize how little of the truth they're being taught)



In the great depression (1930) in the US the Federal Reserve actually decreased the money supply to plunge the flesh further into turmoil and despair and that was afterwards...that's when they also forced the flesh to hand in their gold reserves....to abolish the gold standard....rendering money "legal tendered"..no longer backed by anything!!! 

Have a look at what is happening :it's about a 30 minute clip - WTF?

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html

Yeah...less money around....greater inflation....and yes, the same people who  reduce the supply to destroy, gave you your pathetic economics syllabus...yeah..you got it.

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## Dave A

Francois - is there any chance we can nudge you into solution mode so that we can all stop being victims of this conspiracy?

All this knowledge is worthless unless it can be converted into action steps.

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## Frankincense

@ Dave 
"so that we can all stop being victims of this conspiracy?"

Oh how I wish that was possible....but not ALL will escape... :-(

If you watch the clip, WILLIAM K. BLACK from the University of Mussouri is  intelligent and enlightened concerning the topic of this post and is by no account a conspiracy theorist, he gives Bill Moyers ALL THE SOLUTIONS as to what we need to do to stop what's  being done to us in the last minute or so of the clip

I see the value add in his suggestions, but I see more realistically how the solutions to this problem are totally not gonna happen in the near future....(am I wrong?)

He mentions that staff with integrity need to be placed in charge of our large corporates/banks as clearly highlights thier incompetence to be moral so as to stop hurting us and conspiring against us...but we know....there's a DREADFULL p6rop6hes6y to be fullfilled first which I don't like going into too deep 'coz I get labelled a conspiracy theorist etc....


Woe to the multitudes of flesh subject to this "event of conspiring men that hurt the very management of thier own loving homes"

Usually we'd change what's within our powers as humble family men
          carry sufficient serenity to accept that which we cannot change
           and pray for wisdom to know the difference

I enjoy showing love to others and sharing knowledge with those who enjoy light...that's been in my nature since youth...I show mercy and trust too easily occasionally....it's a personal spirit...but through having made naive mistakes and having it been taken advantage of, have learned not to show mercy unto the merciless always... being loving & diciplined is a sacrifice...so not everyone's down for that...alot of readers just wanna get on with thier lives irrespective of who's eating them up everyday..or who they eating up...

You gonna have to look within yourself as to how best apply your gifts to improve this pathetic situation upon the globe right now....my answers may not find favour in your eyes...

From what I see, vast amount of readers reading our posts may read them coz they "enjoy" them....as long as we share THE TRUTH with people... we should assist in propagating true freedom...or be placing in a better position to decide for themselves what can work for them be it business wise or domestically...

I've mentioned we are entering a period where we cannot buy or sell without accesses...as this worsens we will all have to make important desicions...at  this stage we can still discuss these things...but soon it will be no more time for talking...and time for action....

For now...love thy neighbour....I hope that's practical enough...

later...

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Dave A (08-Apr-09)

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## sgafc

> Francois - is there any chance we can nudge you into solution mode so that we can all stop being victims of this conspiracy?
> 
> All this knowledge is worthless unless it can be converted into action steps.


The banking/economic scam is a fact, "theories" should never be entertained, but when I see reservations of the economic collapse expressed by esteemed finance analysts, economic professors(world wide), then I know the conspiracy "theorists" will be vindicated in future for all their predictions. Its not that they are fortune tellers, just they understand how the *Illuminati* operates, as Francois expounded on the "Great Depression".

Solutions: :Smile: 
VERY SIMPLE, 
PEACEFUL NON CO-ORPORATION WITH THIS *SICK* SYSTEM.
REDUCING DEBT, AND RELYING MORE ON CASH OR "EARNED MONEY", AND LESS BORROWED MONEY(THE BANKSTERS TRICK)
AND VERY IMPORTANTLY, CRITICAL THINKING!

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Dave A (08-Apr-09), Frankincense (08-Apr-09)

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## Frankincense

(1) PEACEFUL NON CO-ORPORATION WITH THIS SICK SYSTEM.
 - I gotta go to work 2mw...sowi...I'm co-operating and it's SICK!!!!
(2) REDUCING DEBT
 -  Seems that is the reason why I have to go to work...to reduce it ...WTF??????

(3)  CRITICAL THINKING!
 - Aha...I can do that....

My Critical Thinking for the day forces me to urge all readers to give all theories of interest due consideration, as they are indeed theories, and theories are theorems awaiting birth into the formalised structure of our universe's reality.

 Theories are abstract and conceptual, and to this end they are never considered right or wrong.

A theory, in the general sense of the word, is an analytic structure designed to explain a set of observations. A theory does two things:
it identifies this set of distinct observations as a class of phenomena, and
makes assertions about the underlying reality that brings about or affects this class.
Theories are reserved for ideas which meet baseline requirements about the kinds of observations made, the methods of classification used, and the consistency of the theory in its application among members of that class. These requirements vary across different fields of knowledge, but in general theories are expected to be functional and parsimonious: i.e. a theory should be the simplest possible tool that can be used to effectively address the given class of phenomena.
 Theories are abstract and conceptual, and to this end they are never considered right or wrong. Instead, they are supported or challenged by observations in the world. They are 'rigorously tentative', meaning that they are proposed as true but expected to satisfy careful examination to account for the possibility of faulty inference or incorrect observation. Sometimes theories are falsified, meaning that an explicit set of observations contradicts some fundamental assumption of the theory, but more often theories are revised to conform to new observations, by restricting the class of phenomena the theory applies to or changing the assertions made. Sometimes a theory is set aside by scholars because there is no way to examine its assertions analytically; these may continue on in the popular imagination until some means of of examination is found which either refutes or lends credence to the theory.
The word 'theory' is generally considered to derive from Greek θεωρία theoria (Jerome), Greek "contemplation, speculation", from θεωρός "spectator", θέα thea "a view" + ὁρᾶν horan "to see", literally "looking at a show".

So I'm gonna have to urge readers to consider them....

That's all for today....

Creation started as a Theory! My Music starts with Theory!
I was an Earthy Theory God believed in so much, that He tried me in a Fiery Theorem, and now I am Validated Gold.....lol

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## Dave A

Just when I thought we'd got it down to something simple...

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## sgafc

Ever noticed of late, that banks are more averse to dispense of cash. From time to time in the past I would ask my clients to issue cash or non crossed cheques to boost my cash flow(cash it over the counter). Since October 2008, I have noticed banks finding all excuses not to cash certain cheques, using excuses from the "system'' to the best one; SIGNATURE DIFFERENCE. In such situations I am compelled to deposit the cheque, waiting 7 to 10 days for clearance, but the cheque doesnt "bounce" because of that "signature diffrence", but they couldnt cash it. Can any banking experts on the forums explain to me what the heck is goin on. And it is all banks, are they witholding cash? My client gets debited whether I cash the cheque or deposit it. So what is their problem?  :Confused:

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## Dave A

This one be easy - 
When you cash a cheque, they can't reverse the transaction if for some reason the cheque doesn't hold.
If you deposit the cheque, they *can* reverse the transaction if it emerges there is a problem with the cheque.

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## Frankincense

"Banks are moving flesh towards a cashless environment as part of control expansion. The less physical cash supplied, the more Humans will have to rely on electronic means. It's all about controlling client behaviour. Cashing a cheque over the counter is probably one of the most expensive ways to get cash. Even the allocated fees are designed to deter this behaviour. Even depositing it and withdrawing from the ATM is cheaper. Don't be surprised when your banks no longer print paper based cheques. All transactions are to revolve around the chip ...you know what I mean....it's just the way it will be...wasn't my idea...."

I have no idea who said that....WTF?

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## Graeme

I draw cash several times a month from my Standard Bank Achiever Account and it costs me nothing.  You just have to have the right account.

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## sgafc

> "Banks are moving flesh towards a cashless environment as part of control expansion. The less physical cash supplied, the more Humans will have to rely on electronic means. It's all about controlling client behaviour. Cashing a cheque over the counter is probably one of the most expensive ways to get cash. Even the allocated fees are designed to deter this behaviour. Even depositing it and withdrawing from the ATM is cheaper. Don't be surprised when your banks no longer print paper based cheques. All transactions are to revolve around the chip ...you know what I mean....it's just the way it will be...wasn't my idea...."
> 
> I have no idea who said that....WTF?


My point exactly! I understand that banks never take any risk(while expecting customers to bear all of it). Cash is being sucked out of the system at a rapid rate. In December 2008, several banks in the Joburg CBD ran out of cash when customers drew their December bonusses, surely banks should have contingincy plans in place for events of that nature. Bottomline: What a bank have in cash, is far lower than what they have on their books as deposits!!! :Confused:

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## Frankincense

The ultimate message : Banks do not want to rely on any cash at all - it's being erased for something more virtual (just like the difference in real money and "electronic" money)... and severe cash management of a multibillion rand bank is something to get rid of as soon as possible once the realities are manifest concerning electronic filing mainframes and coded flesh...I like calling them "data black holes"...they attract all!!!!!.....all transactions will be explicitly electronic soon...money is a string of code...1's and 0's....that is why electronic systems are being introduced. Just part of the strategy.....no matter what type of account you have...all; physical transactions are recorded electrically and will eventually be the only/easy way.....enjoy our historic paperbased cheques and cash while around....it will be gone soon....

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## Dave A

The portfolio managers are starting to prep their investors for the bad news.



> Investors should prepare themselves for dwindling dividend payouts, Barnard Jacob Mellet Private Client Services (BJM PCS) said on Monday.
> 
> "Dividend yields from equities are at historical highs relative to government bonds, but investors should prepare now for the prospect of falling dividend payouts," the portfolio management company said.
> full story from Business Report here

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## Dave A

This can't be helping:



> The Gauteng government owes suppliers R1,7-billion in outstanding fees, provincial minister of finance Mandla Nkomfe said on Tuesday. 
> 
> "Estimates indicate that there is currently R1,7-billion in outstanding payments," he told reporters in Johannesburg, adding that an operation was under way to ensure the money was paid.
> 
> "Operation Bhadala is the provincial government's initiative to ensure that all outstanding invoices for goods and services rendered and delivered are paid by the end of September this year," said Nkomfe.
> 
> A total of R342-million of payments had already been processed in the past three weeks.
> 
> "It is our firm belief that the operation will bring some much-needed relief in the effort to contribute to the sustainability of the SMME [small, medium and micro enterprises] sector," said Nkomfe. 
> ...


How old is that book?
And will they be paying interest?

If you read the rest of the story - procurement controls look a bit shaky too. I hate to raise the issue of validating claims when it looks like valid ones haven't being settled timeously, but it does make you wonder.

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