# Regulatory Compliance Category > General Regulatory Compliance Forum > [Question] Return of Earnings (WCC/ COIDA)

## Christel

Hi there,
I would like to know if anybody has received any W.As.8 Return of Earnings yet? 
I phoned WCC on the 9th March and they said that they are still deciding when the due date will be (normally 31 March every year)... I have not heard anything w.r.t. these and no forms has been received either...
Thanks. :Frown:

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## Marie Stieger

Hi there

I also haven't received my Return of Earnings as yet.
What I would like to know if we will be responsible for interest and penalties for late submissions because of this?
Regards 
Marie

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## Dave A

No return received yet, and according to last year's notice:




> If the return is not submitted to this office on or before 31 March 2011, a penalty not exceeding 10% of the final assessment may be imposed in terms of section 83(6)(b).


I received last year's notice on 29th March 2011, completed and posted it off on 30th March 2011, and when I eventually received my assessment was hit 10% for late submission.

But then that's supposed to be my fault because according to the same notice:




> Kindly take note that the return of earnings, W.As.8, is mailed to all registered employers in the beginning of the year. The onus is on the employer to notify my office by the 1st of March if the return of earnings form has not been received. Forms are available on the website.


Have you notified WCC that you have not received your form yet?
And I've checked - the last W.As.8 form on the Dol website at the moment is for the 2010 year - last modified 2011-11-06.

Unfortunately the Workmans Compensation Commissioner believes in time travel. As proof I tender my last assessment received.



Date of Notice: 05.12.2011
Due date: 04.01.2012
Posted by registered mail on: 19.01.2012
Received by me on: 24.01.2012

How the heck was I supposed to pay this by 4th January 2012?

They really need a serious wake-up call.

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## sandyb

Ditto all the above.  Have exhaustively trolled through their website for the latest form, but it's hopeless. Nothing there but last years.  Also, submitted last years around 8 or 9 March (actually got the form on time, surprise surprise) but have been slapped with late submission anyway.  Sucks.

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## Christel

We have numerous problems with WCC and it's no use to object against anything as they don't correct anything or waiver penalties & interest like SARS.  I have the 2011 final 2012 provisional W.As.8 in Excel format if anybody is interested...(and can tell me how to upload the doc).. but it would be no use to complete and post to them, as they have changed to a new system and if you don't have your new ref number... they might just end up losing your form ... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Dave A

The Workmans Compensation return of earnings thread had sprung to life on this too, and the news is deeply disturbing.




> Hi All
> 
> Yes its that time of the year again, yes no new return of earnings forms has been sent out as yet, as according to some officials at the Fund they looking at rolling out the new system on the 17th of April similar to e-filing, I doubt it will happen, but lets wait and see.
> Yes penalties will be charged at 10%, irrespective as the system calculates the penalty , totally unfair I know, but thats the Fund for you.
> Im almost certain the 2011 return will differ from the 2010, so rather not send that form in.
> 
> I will try and obtain more info from the Fund later today and will post accordingly.


First, thanks to Ivan for his efforts  :Thumbup: 

But this situation is totally unacceptable. It's not just penalties on the line with this maladministration, it's no claim bonuses too.

If anyone has the reach to escalate this to the attention of someone who can do something about it, please do.

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## wynn

This is another one of the reasons businesses are loathe to employ people instead of outsourcing.

Make a list of all the crap and hoops you jump through when you are an employer and if the returns are not really handsome why would you bother? :Banghead:

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## Fanie

Dave A, you exterminate pests don't you ?




> Make a list of all the crap and hoops you jump through when you are an employer and if the returns are not really handsome why would you bother?


Correct.  Considering when someone starts working in your business they kind of like own part of it already.  Over and above the fact that they seem to think they can supplement their income from the business.

Look, people will have to begin to understand that there is a reason why things are done as they are.  Late forms but you pay penalties.  Use your own money against you.  

Invade everything that works, create a problem, then 'solve' the problem with some cripple technique that is not at your advantage... but it sounds logic.  EVERYTHING in SA is done this way because the infrastructure has to be broken down so the power goes out of the hands of the people into the hands of the eh eh eh government.  They want full control over every one and everything.  Whether they are competent or not and if they destroy anything that works is not important, they want full control at any and all cost.

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## Fanie

The wife said it was announced on radio that 440 000 businesses closed down last year.  Yet the load gets more and more by things like the toll roads, power costs etc etc etc all under the fallacy of 'job creation' and 'new businesses'.  It's not going to happen.

Worry about late forms or late returns ?  Nah.  Maybe they expect the genocide to take place soon and they want to save the printing costs of the forms.  Won't surprise me one bit.

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## nomadicjoe

Hi all,
On a similar note - we have NEVER been posted ANYTHING or e-mailed ANYTHING from WCC in the 4 years of business....  When we enquired as to what the hell was going on we had to pay penalties and all sorts of charges that they suddenly "came up with".  I have paid all of the above and have been waiting 5 months for a letter of good standing.  When we phoned them again to ask for this letter they stated that there was a return missing.  We told them on 5 separate occasions that all forms had been filled in and submitted.  On all 5 occasions they told us - oh, yes, I see we've received them but there is one missing - WHICH THERE ISN'T - but they can't tell us WHAT is missing because when we explain what they are looking at (their own forms) they say "oh yes, okay, we will sort it out".  I'm still waiting.  I am now getting my friend, who is a CA to phone them to find out why we still have not received our letter of good standing.  Not to mention that I'm not holding my breath for the submission forms either - I may suffocate!  It is extremely frustrating - and actually worse to deal with than SARS.  ARG.   :Mad:

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## FACE

Thanks for the reminder.
In our business we have to provide letters of good standing with the compensation commissioner. The last letter from them dated 01/11/2011 (with expiry date of 31/01/2012) stated that we are in good standing subject to "our earnings return has been received but has not yet been processed" So we are still waiting for our assesment to pay them for last year.
When this letter expired I applied for a new one and I was informed on a letter from them dated 04/02/2012 that they cannot provide a letter as our 2011 return of earnings is to be submitted 31/03/2012. 
So I wrote back saying:
We have not received a return as yet
A return cannot be issued as the Feb '12 earnings are still outstanding
We are still waiting for our assessment for the 2010 year
But here is our list with earnings with provisional earnings for Feb '12

So I received a letter of good standing to expire 31/07/2012 subject to "earnings return received, but not processed yet"

My main concern is that we have not received our assesment so no payment has been made for last year.
Anyone else with this problem or suggestions

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## FACE

Hi
I have found it better to rather put all in writing and fax to them than to try and phone them and sit on the phone and wait, wasting your valuable time

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## DesOshea

> No return received yet, and according to last year's notice:
> 
> 
> 
> I received last year's notice on 29th March 2011, completed and posted it off on 30th March 2011, and when I eventually received my assessment was hit 10% for late submission.
> 
> But then that's supposed to be my fault because according to the same notice:
> 
> 
> ...




Does the WCC have an ombudsman?? Surely it cannot be right  how are they allowed to get away with it. All bussiness has a problem with them. Why are we paying penalties and interest for something that is not our fault. They have been penalised me once again for an assessment sent in Sept 2011. I asked the girl for proof that it has been sent. Her answer 'put it in writing'. My penalties and interest has now run up for the last 4years. All I am asking is a response to my 20 letters I have sent.

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## zs5zk

> Ditto all the above.  Have exhaustively trolled through their website for the latest form, but it's hopeless. Nothing there but last years.  Also, submitted last years around 8 or 9 March (actually got the form on time, surprise surprise) but have been slapped with late submission anyway.  Sucks.


This is Fraud and Corruption by the "Workmans Commissioner and you are entitled to lay acharge of theft and fraud against the Commissioner.Every single person is benig penalised with this 10% which results in At Least 1 Billion Rand if not more. WHERE IS THAT MONEY GOING TO ???????????????????????? :Mad:

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## Andrevh

The last letter of good standing we received from the Commissioner was issued to us on 10 January 2012, stating that it is good until 31 March 2012. Until then we still did not pay our COID fees for last year as we did not receive our final assessment from them. When we requested a new Letter of good standing on Tuesday this week, we received a response from them that they can not issue us a letter as an amount was outstanding (they gave the exact amount in the response). I suspect this must be our 2012 assessment that we were waiting for. However, until today we did not receive the assessment form from them. 

I phoned them regarding this and the lady told me that this money was for last year's assessment which we need to pay. When I asked about the new return of earnings form (that needs to be completed by the end of this month) she said it was not send out yet. When I asked about penalties for late submissions, she assured me that they requested an extension date for submissions this year as they are changing to a new system. She also stated that no penalties will be charged as they are responsible for the delay and not us. I view this in a positive way but as we all know we don't have written proof that they will not charge us penalties etc. For now we will pay the fees for last years assessment and wait in anticipation for the issuing of the new return of earnings form. The lady also gave us our new reference number as issued by the "new" system. 

Once we paid our outstanding assessment fees, we will submit a new request for a letter of good standing using our new reference number. Will see what happens then.

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## Christel

> My main concern is that we have not received our assesment so no payment has been made for last year.
> Anyone else with this problem or suggestions


Hi FACE,  Out of the 74 clients I do RoI for I have recevied... wait for it.... 5 assessments back for 2010 final/2011 provisional.  And the best of all, all the payments made was late as I have received the assessments after the due date of payment (surprise, surprise!!).

My other concern is new registrations.... I have about 8 entities that I have applied for (between July - Oct 2011)...and nothing happened since.  When I phoned to ask what the hold up is, I was told that because they've moved to a new computer system, they don't issue registration numbers when they register new entities, but only when the fist assessment is raised.  So, they could see my entities on the system, but could not give me any registration numbers.  I'm not sure what will happen if there is an IOD...

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## Dave A

I'm getting a lot of feedback via email on this too. Seems like I'm not the only one where the assessment arrived well after the due date.



> I have also not received my Return of Earnings as yet.  In fact, I have been trying to obtain a Letter of Goodstanding for about 2 months now and am told that until I pay my invoice (which also shows a penalty amount of  over R2,000) no LoG will be forthcoming.
> The invoice pmt was due on 18th Jan - the registered envelope was dated 23rd Feb and I only received it on 29th Feb !!!!
> Needless to say - I have only paid what is due excluding the penalty amount and have sent countless faxes, emails with no result and no LoG.
> 
> It's really getting out of hand - and us being so dependent on the LoG for our business - they have us by the short ones!
> 
> Regards
> Vivienne


I thought perhaps it was the Christmas/New Year holidays that caused my issue, but no such excuses for this one.

Just seems to be standard practice!

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## Lauren R

Hi there

I haven't received our Return of Earnings form yet either. Just got off the phone with someone at the Dept. of Labour, who advised that i should phone again next week as they do not know when the forms will be made available or if an extension will be granted. Talk about useless...

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## osbert

Hi Nice people,
i have received mine though am in Zambia and guess what? The Period are exactly the same and the WCC seems to operate in the same way as the South African one. But anywas the email i received just reminded me to fill up mine and submit it.
Thanks Guys

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## Ivan

Hi

Just a reminder guys, if your business falls within the building and construction industry , you would need not have to be with the Compensation Fund, you would be able to transfer over to FEM.
Exactly the same cost, just a way more efficient service (eg letters of good standing are valid for a year), contact me should you wish to enquire more (Ivan 0828266875).
Easy way to immediately know if you do fall within that classification is simply checking your WCA registration no, and should the last *four digits begin with 05*, you may transfer over to FEM.eg (0123-869-*05*00)For those that requires their status checks give me a call , I will try and assist where possible

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Christel (23-Mar-12)

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## Dave A

I've just had an email forwarded to me - the source looks genuine enough:




> Sent: 23 March 2012 02:10 PM
> Subject: FW: 2011 RETURN OF EARNINGS
> 
> 
> We are experiencing delays regarding the issuing of the 2011 return of earnings. A revised submission deadline will be communicated to all registered employers in due course. 
> 
> Please be informed that employers will not be penalised for the submission deadline of 31 March 2012.
> 
> I trust this is in order.
> ...


Progress it seems  :Thumbup: 

Has anyone else received this notification?

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sandyb (26-Mar-12)

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## IlseB

Hi All!
Just received a mail from the Compensation fund stating that there will be a revised submission deadline and employers will not be penalised for submission after 31 March. Hope they keep to that!

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Dave A (26-Mar-12)

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## sandyb

> I've just had an email forwarded to me - the source looks genuine enough:
> 
> 
> Progress it seems 
> 
> Has anyone else received this notification?


Maybe mine's "still in the post".   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I've just found that Ella does exist at the Department of Labour.  Found her photo on an organizational chart on the internet.  She's the one of the bottom, left.




So, here's definitely hoping that all is good with the world for now and that the mentioned extention actually is granted to all of us.

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## Dave A

Yep - looking good for this year's return. 

We've still got those penalties raised on last year's returns, and the assessments that were only posted after the payment due date to get dealt with.

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## USHA

Hi Dave

I just phoned the call centre now and I was told by a Ms Malebu that the forms are only going to be sent out on the 2nd of April and that there is a new dealine which is the 31st May 2012.  Have you received anything to that effect?

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Dave A (27-Mar-12)

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## Dave A

> Have you received anything to that effect?


This post seems to confirm this is the current plan.  :Smile: 

Now we just need to wait for the return forms to start arriving in the post.

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USHA (28-Mar-12)

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## Christel

Hello,
We have also received notification that the deadline has been postponed, but no official new date has been communicated to us.  We received our email from SAIPA.  They have also applied for an extension on behalf of their members.
What I can say regarding last year's penalties & interest, don't bother trying to get it waived... just pay and move on.  
I have been struggling for over 4 years just to get 1 payment re-allocated to the correct account.  Our client used the wrong reference number when making payment.  Eish.. .I was told that I should get the client to sign an affidavit at the police station because he might be lying to us and that they cannot just believe him even if he shows that the payment went off his bank account.  Ja nee boet! ....  I rest my case.

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## Agel#

I said "no"

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## ERROL LOMBARD

> I've just had an email forwarded to me - the source looks genuine enough:
> 
> 
> Progress it seems 
> 
> Has anyone else received this notification?


No, still nothing received that will justify any waiver of a potential penalty. I must mention that a staff member gave me the same response after a telephone conversation with the department. No call reference number was issued but we were informed that extension was granted till the end of May. The lack of documentary proof was the reason why I logged on to find out what other members are experiencing. I scrutinised the department's website for confirmation but could not find any official announcement. They have given us the new reference number but I still do not have any ease of mind. Please keep the document you have received in a safe in case all of us may need a copy. Thanks for sharing.....

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## sandyb

> Hi Dave
> 
> I just phoned the call centre now and I was told by a Ms Malebu that the forms are only going to be sent out on the 2nd of April and that there is a new dealine which is the 31st May 2012.  Have you received anything to that effect?


http://www.pieriansa.co.za/index.php...-earnings-roe/

The above link has just been posted on the web by Juanita Steenekamp of SAICA and seems to validate the extension date. :Zyfingerdance:

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## suefenton

I just phoned the WCC call centre this morning, there is a recorded message that says the deadline has been extended to 31 May 2012 and the forms will be available from 2 April. whew!  Thank you so much for the email you sent out about this issue, Dave A, this whole return thing had slipped my mind - with not having received it.

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## Sue vz

Hi - Firstly thank you for this thread - while searching for info this morning on the Return of Earnings I came across this site and it was helpful.  Thought I would register with your forum and give you all a quick update.  

If you call the compensation fund Call Centre on 0860105350 there is an automatic voice advising that the deadline for returns has been moved to 31st May and that forms will be posted from the 2nd April (they do apologise for any incovenience).

Regards
Sue

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## Calcha-Charmaine

This is all very upsetting to read, as a COIDA specialist it really is hard to see so many people having the same problems. Penalties that could be reversed, documents which have not been received, and knowing that each one of you has made some or other attempt to correct their mistakes and are still not getting any where, is truly upsetting. Should any of you be serious about obtaining help, our company would be more than happy to forward you a profile and query form. No company should be treated like this or penalized for the plain laziness of others!!!! Our clients used to have the same issues, we ourselves had the same issues. Good luck to all who are on this and trying to do the right things.

Our e mail address for queries is info@calcha.za.org

Cheers from Charm!

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## Dave A

> Our clients used to have the same issues, we ourselves had the same issues.


So what do you do that works that we are not doing?
A personal visit to the department, perhaps?

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## Calcha-Charmaine

Hi Dave,  

Sorry for the late reply to your question. At times a personal visit to their offices is required. 
What we do differently is, we have spent quite a number of years dealing with their offices and researched their procedures. I have been extremely fortunate to also have been allowed to visit their Head Office, it's one heap of documents on top of another heap of documents. We also have people that we deal with directly and only have to make minimal use of the Call Centre, it also helps when you able to deal with people who are trying to make a difference to the image portrayed by many other staff which is in negative fashion.

Hope that answers your question, our clients are also our top priority and so is their compliance.

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## Mike C

Hi Charm - It's great that you are able to do this kind of thing for your clients (presumably you charge them a fee) - but there seems to be something fundamentally wrong with having to do pay a third party to do something that should be straight-forward and required by law.

Please understand that I am not getting a dig-in at you.  I think that you are doing a good thing.  I just get disgruntled at not being able to do the stuff that we are told we HAVE TO do, and then get penalised for no fault of our own.

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BusFact (21-Apr-12), Dave A (24-Apr-12)

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## sandyb

Okay, it's the 1st week of May - has anybody received their return in the post?

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## Mike C

> Okay, it's the 1st week of May - has anybody received their return in the post?


Nope - nothing in my postbox!

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## Dave A

Nothing received in my post box yet either.

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## suefenton

> Okay, it's the 1st week of May - has anybody received their return in the post?


Still nothing, what must we do?  I'm so stressed about this.

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## Dave A

> Still nothing, what must we do?  I'm so stressed about this.


Don't let it get to you  :Smile: 

I think we just need to keep exposing the issue. They've got away with murder up to now and business has been paying the penalties because their (lack of) performance wasn't being exposed. Not so easy for them to get away with it when there's increased awareness...

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## Mike C

Got to keep this thread alive!  

Phoned again today ... same message saying the deadline has been extended to end of May ... *together with a kind reminder to submit the return in time to avoid penalties.*  :Crazy: 

No way to get to talk to anyone about it!

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## Frontierlab

Hi all, yes yes and yes. Still watching and waiting on 'post' to arrive so that we can do our civic duty and complete and return all forms on time but alas.  Seems to me they intentionally 'post' the returns late so that we are forced to pay penalties.  Why can't we just complete the damn stuff on-line - problem solved.

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## Christel

Hello,
We have contacted SAIPA with this query, as we have not received ANY of our 75 returns as at today's date...  This is their resonse:

Thank you for contacting the Institute with your enquiry.

Please note that we have been in contact with the WCA office, and they still insist on the fact that they have dispatched the forms to the employers via the post, and that they are aware of the deadline approaching.

We are having a meeting with them on the 25th May 2012, and hopefully we can get them to agree to a further extension as the forms were released late, if at all.

*Kind Regards,*

*Luyanda Makhanya*

Technical Team Administrator
Direct Line: (011) 207 7860

SOUTH AFRICAN INSTITUTE OF PROFESSIONAL ACCOUNTANTS, SAIPA House, Howick Close, Waterfall Park, Vorna Valley, Midrand, 1686
PO Box 2407, Halfway House, 1685, South Africa · (T) 08611 SAIPA (72472)·  (F) +27 (0)11 805 0105·mailto:info@saipa.co.za·www.saipa.co.za
 
I rest my case....

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Dave A (09-May-12), Mike C (09-May-12)

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## DesOshea

I have just sent a personal email to the Compensation Commissioner Mr Shadrack Mkhonto. I must say I was quite impressed with the service I received. My first call was answered almost immediately and I was given another number to call. My 2nd call I waited for 1 min and the girl was kind enough to give me both her and the Commissioner's email address. I just wish we could get the same service from WCC. Anyway in my email I asked the Commissioner to follow the link to THE FORUM to see the issues regarding late returns, penalties & interest. I also asked him how HE was going to resolve this matter.  

(I just received a response from the Commissioner's office showing that my email was forwarded to someone else.  I wonder if it is his secretary.???: I least SOMETHING is happening.)

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Dave A (09-May-12), Mike C (09-May-12)

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## beatlexx

I haven't received last year’s assessment back and also no new forms for this year. They don’t answer emails and the agent at the call desk just says I must wait for the documents to arrive. 

Tried to register on this website http://roe.labour.gov.za/DolRoeWeb/index.html but it keeps asking for a Contract Acc. No. which I don’t have.
Where do I get this Contract Acc. No. ?

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## Dave A

Where'd you track down that URL, beatlexx?

BTW - whatever script was running there seems to have crashed.

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## ChrisB

I was at a IFRS update seminar yesterday. Of all the accountants not one have received the return. Neither have any of their clients.

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## beatlexx

> Where'd you track down that URL, beatlexx?
> 
> BTW - whatever script was running there seems to have crashed.


I found the link on the Labour website http://www.labour.gov.za/. The link is under online services (Compensation Fund Return of Earnings Submissions), you register a DOL user account. Once logged in you can then linked a ROE to your business, but that is where it asks for a Contract Acc. No. I don't have that number only the old ref number. 

But like you said this site seems to be down.

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Dave A (09-May-12)

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## jdg1868

I haven't received my Return of Earnings.

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## beatlexx

I have just received a mail saying that my mails have been forwarded to a Ramothupi Mabusela. 
Will wait and see what his response is going to be, if any...

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## INGEVL

Managed to access this website this morning before 8.
Actually managed to enter a contract number which is the new number issued by Dept Labour.
Phoned them this morning to obtain most of our client base new registration numbers which start with 99 and 10 digits after this.  They also gave me a BP number which is for "business partner"?
Got as far as requesting ROE2011 form and then...web page went down!
Seem to be getting there slowly...
Will try again tomorrow.

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## Dave A

Sounds like the way the CIPRO website used to be  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Calcha-Charmaine

Ah the joys of dealing with the Compensation Commissioner's offices. Not a happy lot at the moment, our clients are even starting to complain at the lack of assistance from the Compensation Commissioner's offices, thank goodness we got a blank copy of the form and completed a Return for each of our clients, even if it did take a little extra time.....

I truly hope that all of you get sorted at no extra cost!

Cheers,

Charmaine Vorster

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## Calcha-Charmaine

Hi Mike,

Thank you that you think our services are a great thing. I think it's obvious that there is a fee attached to our services, but in general I also feel that it is wrong that Employers have to seek out external assistance regarding their COIDA accounts and so forth, but at the end of the day we manage a headache that most of you are complaining about, and I fully agree this should be a straight forward process as it is a legal requirement. 

I have had many people take a dig-in at us, as you so elegantly put it  :Big Grin:  so yeah no worries in that department at all. 

if you would like more info, please e mail me charmaine@calcha.za.org

gotta run, busy times!

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## sandyb

> "thank goodness we got a blank copy of the form ...."


Is it possible for you to supply any of us with this blank form?

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Dave A (11-May-12)

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## Dave A

ChristelACS has just confirmed that the return can be completed online. She advises:




> Yes... you are not dreaming... it's available for online submission via the DoL website.
>  You need to register yourself as the user and the put in the ref number for the Company you need to submit. BUT, if it's not one of the new numbers.. .you need to phone them... and wait forever for them to assist you if you are lucky enought to get someone to answer....
> 
> And the due date is still.... 31 May (with the EMP501 deadline).


In trying to fish out a URL for you, I found even the Department of Labour's home page isn't loading very well right now.

Anyhow, from what I can tell so far - register here: http://roe.labour.gov.za/DolRegistra.../register.html

Log in to do your return here: http://roe.labour.gov.za/DolRoeWeb/index.html

And expect the spinning wheel of extreme slowness... Probably best to give it a shot out of ordinary working hours.
Obviously the phone call to get your new WCC number will have to happen in ordinary working hours (whatever that might happen to be at the office of the Workmans Compensation Commissioner  :Stick Out Tongue:  )

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daveob (16-May-12), USHA (17-May-12)

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## Christel

And remember .... as soon as you submit your RoI... it kicks out the assessment and you have 1 month to pay.   I have submitted 1 so far and will be holding on until closer to the deadline for the rest.  SAIPA will be meeting with the Commissioner on the 25th May to try and get the deadline moved on till end June.  And if you do not have a new reg number yet, you would have to phone them... and they just don't answer!

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## INGEVL

I have been getting following message since Friday:-
*You are not
Authorised
to use this function.
Contact the System Admistrator*Anybody else getting this?

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## Dave A

At the moment I get a blank page on the registration URL.




> SAIPA will be meeting with the Commissioner on the 25th May to try and get the deadline moved on till end June.  And if you do not have a new reg number yet, you would have to phone them... and they just don't answer!


There's quite a list of reasons why the deadline warrants extension by the looks of things:
Their claim that the returns have been posted already seems somewhat removed from reality on the ground (I'm trying to put that politely  :Stick Out Tongue:  )The change in registration numbers means latest registration info is criticalThe call centre is not coping with call volumesThe web site doesn't seem to be coping either.




> And remember .... as soon as you submit your RoI... it kicks out the assessment and you have 1 month to pay


Now that could get ugly if you haven't been assessed for a few years  :EEK!:

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## USHA

Hi there
I tried to upload the return of earnings, hope it works.

*Edit from Dave A:* Usha forwarded me the original PDF (a very clean copy) which I've uploaded here:
Workmans Compensation 2011 return download
The file size is 1.24MB

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Dave A (14-May-12), Mike C (14-May-12)

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## USHA

Hi Dave, why can't we use our exiting reference number that we have had for years?

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## Christel

> Hi Dave, why can't we use our exiting reference number that we have had for years?


Hi Usha, Christel here... the website does not accept the old reference number.  WCC has moved over to a new computer system that only works with the new numbers. 
I have received 4 new RoI in the post yesterday... Surprise, Surprise!  These have the relevant numbers on that you need to access the returns online. 
 If you have not received it, you need to phone them, BUT - you can only ask about 1 entity at a time... (So, I would have to phone almost 34 times to get new numbers for all my entities that I have not received new numbers for...)  HAIBO!!   Is this FREE or is this DOM?

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USHA (15-May-12)

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## Dave A

Usha has forwarded me the blank return form that was too large to upload via the vBulletin software. I've uploaded that original file and added a link in post 61 above. It is a much cleaner version of the return, although a much larger file size.




> I have received 4 new RoI in the post yesterday... Surprise, Surprise!  These have the relevant numbers on that you need to access the returns online.


When were they posted?

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## beatlexx

> I have received 4 new RoI in the post yesterday... Surprise, Surprise!  These have the relevant numbers on that you need to access the returns online.


Yes, I also would like to know when they were posted. My effort in trying to contact them is not a big success. My mails doesn’t get answered, the phone is constant busy.

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## USHA

Thanks Christel  :Smile:  , so my understanding is that if I do not do them online I may use the old numbers?

Also, just another stupid question, does a sole proprietor who initially had one staff member and now two staff members also need to be registered with them?

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## USHA

Just thought that I should also mention to those who use Pastel Payrol that the OID Printouts that get done from Payrol don't have the correct figure for the provisional maximum amount. Because WCC sent out their docs late, Pastel used the same maximum amount for calculating the provisional Earnings.  I have had to calculate the provisional figures myself.

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Dave A (15-May-12)

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## Calcha-Charmaine

Hi Usha, 

Yes, as soon as any employer employs 1 or more employees they are required by law to register with the Compensation Commissioner's offices. Sorry to inform you as well that the registration process now takes 21 working days, so should you require this to be done or are doing this on behalf of another person, keep a copy of the original forms as proof of registration as you may need to send these through more than once to their offices. Or you can deliver a original copy at your nearest Department of Labour office, and request that they date stamp your copy as proof of submission, make sure each and every page is date stamped as well.

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USHA (15-May-12)

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## USHA

Hello Charmaine. 
Thank you soo much  :Smile:

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## beatlexx

> ... BUT - you can only ask about 1 entity at a time...


Well after 100 attempts and 30 minutes in the queue I got thru to them and received my new number (now the website is down again  :Mad: ). I didn't know this is possible in SA but yes you are only allowed to ask one question per call, for each question you will have to phone again  :Confused:

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## Brilliant

Hi there I received my Return of Earnings today by post - so just make sure you keep an eye on your post box  :Thumbup:

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Mike C (15-May-12), sandyb (15-May-12)

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## sandyb

Hi all

I've been systematically getting through the registration and submission online and can say that I finally have had success in doing so.  

A crucial missing feature on their site is the issuing of an actual printable invoice.  They say you have been invoiced ... etc. but there's no facility to view or print the invoice.  I'm sure my FD will not be happy paying sans an invoice.  But hey, at least I've met the deadline.  In fact I'm early!   :Taz:  

There's a tab for Reports which is not functional.  At least not on my profile.  It still greyed out and not accessible.

I must stress that you will not be able to do this during normal working hours.  I started the registration process on the weekend and have taken the last two nights to complete the process.  The delay is the website which keeps crashing, etc.

I'm one of the fortunate ones who have had communication from them (albeit for penalties) and was given my new contract number in this communication.  I feel very sorry for those who will have to go through the process of phoning in.  You have my sympathies.

Now all that remains is to pay which one can do via EFT.

Good luck to all of you.  I hope you all manage to submit before the deadline, whenever that is, end May or other.

 :Thumbup:

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## Dave A

At least we have the first signs of post deliveries arriving. Hopefully it will turn into a flood (although the news in another thread of a postal workers strike may yet become a significant new spanner in the works).

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## Andrevh

Just a quick question. I managed to do everything electronically. When requesting the ROE, I noticed only 2 dates given, 2010 and 2011. Is the 2011 one the latest one as no 2012 date is reflecting anywhere??

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## Dave A

> Is the 2011 one the latest one as no 2012 date is reflecting anywhere??


Yes. The 2011 return is for the period 1st March 2011 to 29th Feb 2012 (actual figures) and the projected payroll for 1st March 2012 to 28th Feb 2013.

It's a bit confusing when SARS looks at the same period as the 2012 annual return, but there you go - labour has to be different  :Wink: 

On another note - my returns arrived in the post today - both of them. I guess the mail is starting to come through at last.

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## daveob

Got mine in the post yesterday.

Just tried the links that Dave supplied in an earlier post.

WOW !!!!   WELL DONE DoL.  :Clap:  :Applaud:   At Last !!!!  An online system that works. And finally no more late payment penalties.

Registered on their site.
Got confirmation e-mail.
Entered the new Ref No. ( from the form received in the post ).
Connected
Entered details
Saved
Assessed
Please pay R900 to account ....
Paid
Done

All in all - 10 minutes and I can forget about it for another year.

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## USHA

Got mine as well in the post yesterday   :Thumbup: 

Still registered and submitted online, and have already paid  :Yes: !!

Thank you Dave for the links  :Clap:

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## Frontierlab

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, got mine too....done and dusted.
Thanks everybody for your input/advice/suggestions, much appreciated.
I love technology when it works!!!!  totally awesome.
have a great weekend everyone

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## nicks

Hi There,

Could you please help me? I am trying to register online and they are asking for a Contract Account number, what should I put in there?

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## Mike C

> Hi There,
> 
> Could you please help me? I am trying to register online and they are asking for a Contract Account number, what should I put in there?


Hi Nicks - I think that is what they used to call your Reference Number.  But the old reference number is not accepted if you want to do it online.  You have to phone them to get your new number and, although I have not even bothered to try, I believe that it takes forever to get through.

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## FACE

Hi 
It is cool to be registered and submit details on line, but once this is done how quick do you have to make your payment????

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## Frontierlab

Hi all, after you have submitted your earnings online, it generates how much you owe according to your figures.  Once that is done it populates a message that says ' you have invoiced for an amount of xxxxxx which is due on xxxxxxxx' They even provide their bank details....yayyyyyy

Must say tho,  if the systems works, it works good!!! if not arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh  :Frown: 

Good luck

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## Yvonne

The online submission is as basic as possible, and does not have the detail required in the hard copy return?  
Any chance we are still required to submit the hard copy as well as submitting online?

Yvonne

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## Bertievn

Submitted roe online but now charged 10% penalty in case where no assesment was issued when return of earnings was submitted manaully for 2010 return

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## INGEVL

Submitted my first electronic form yesterday morning early.
I did change the organization details to reflect my e-mail address before attending to the electronic submission and was very surprised to receive an electronic invoice for this company in my e-mails this morning.
Might be good idea to check and update organization details before doing submissions.

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## Jennifer S

I can not even get through to the call centre, anyone have other contact numbers for me.  I've also sent them e-mails but no reply

I've registered on their website and now get the message that I am not authorised.

I've submitted hard copies to them via registered mail, will they accept it?

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## tax$$$

Does anyone know what the rates are at which the current and next year's assessments are based on.  You get the assessed amount, but no indication of how this is calculated.  Do you still get the assessment via post as well?

Anyone that can tell me how much the minimum assessment amount is?

Thank you.

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## Franco

I have some problems when trying to submit the returns electronically, they ask for previous years assessments and when I try to submit them nothing happens, or I get the error code 30% variance detected insert text comment. Should I just go in to submit the forms manually or is there some way to fix this? 

Thank you.

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## Dave A

> I've submitted hard copies to them via registered mail, will they accept it?


They have to accept it, surely.

Frankly, if submitting online hits a snag, that's probably the best way to go.

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## Bertievn

> Does anyone know what the rates are at which the current and next year's assessments are based on.  You get the assessed amount, but no indication of how this is calculated.  Do you still get the assessment via post as well?
> 
> Anyone that can tell me how much the minimum assessment amount is?
> 
> Thank you.


Minimum for 2011 -R900

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Dave A (26-May-12), tax$$$ (28-May-12)

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## Dave A

> Does anyone know what the rates are at which the current and next year's assessments are based on.


Different business sectors have different rates. The rates raised against you will be based on the historical claim experience of the fund for your sector.

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tax$$$ (28-May-12)

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## Mike C

> They have to accept it, surely.
> 
> Frankly, if submitting online hits a snag, that's probably the best way to go.


I don't think that they will accept registered mail.  Once before when we had a problem we asked them if we can send the response via registered mail and they said that they do not have time to go and fetch registered post.

On the one hand I can understand the logic, as thousands and thousands of registered letters could be a problem ... but on the other hand it leaves the sender with no proof of submission whatsoever.

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## Mike C

Received mine yesterday - two of them!  Did the one online - no hassles.  The other will have to be posted as there was a hiccup with 2010 submission.

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## Mike C

Hi all, I even received an Invoice today via email!

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## FACE

I have submitted our ROE now. Immediately received feedback of how much to pay. However I do not agree with the amount. The payment due (1.38%)  is based on the provisional figures. Payment is due 27 June 2012. At least a bit of grace

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## Dave A

> I don't think that they will accept registered mail.  Once before when we had a problem we asked them if we can send the response via registered mail and they said that they do not have time to go and fetch registered post.
> 
> On the one hand I can understand the logic, as thousands and thousands of registered letters could be a problem ... but on the other hand it leaves the sender with no proof of submission whatsoever.


The answer is to send it via Speedpost at the Post Office. You get a slip proving when you posted, together with your details and the address you posted to. On the other side it gets dropped straight into the Post Box/private bag - they don't have to sign for it. And push comes to shove, the article is tracked.

Costs around R66.00

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## Mike C

> I have submitted our ROE now. Immediately received feedback of how much to pay. However I do not agree with the amount. The payment due (1.38%)  is based on the provisional figures. Payment is due 27 June 2012. At least a bit of grace


Hi FACE, when I received my invoice from them there was a bit of a breakdown on how they arrived at the figure.  It will be difficult to argue with them because it is so hard to get to talk to anyone in that dept.

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## Vixen800

> I have some problems when trying to submit the returns electronically, they ask for previous years assessments and when I try to submit them nothing happens, or I get the error code 30% variance detected insert text comment. Should I just go in to submit the forms manually or is there some way to fix this? 
> 
> Thank you.



Hi, has anyone been able to figure this out? Franco have you had any luck??

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## Mike C

> Hi, has anyone been able to figure this out? Franco have you had any luck??


Hi Vixen - I have decided to submit manually and enclosed a copy of the previous year's submission for their attention.  I doubt that it will be able to be fixed online ... and it seems as though they have written the program so that previous years submissions have to be sorted out first.  

A bit short-sighted in my opinion, as one would like to pay the present assessment while trying to sort out previous years ... but maybe it is all a plot to add interest to your present assessment as well because you could not sort it out.  Who knows.

If you get any joy on this I would be very interested in hearing how it was solved.

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## Christel

What the frikkadel?  The deadline has now been extended till 31 July 2012.... HOOOHAH!  Open DoL website, read, and celebrate!.  Pitty we did now know about this... then we could have hold back on some of the submissions = give us longer time to pay....

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## Dave A

> then we could have hold back on some of the submissions = give us longer time to pay....


Sounds good - unless you need a letter of good standing.  :Frown: 

In fact that's the one good thing that might comes out of this online submission option - a letter of good standing that will be valid for pretty close to a year. Having them expire three times a year and having to reapply each time was a real PITA.

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## Dave A

Very early in this thread I mentioned the unfair levying of penalties by the Workmens Compensation Fund.

Guess what came up in their audit report this year - 




> The AG said inadequate monitoring and controls at the fund were the reasons for his qualified audit opinion.
> 
> He called into question the authenticity of certain information in the financial statements.
> 
> "I did not obtain all the information and explanations I considered necessary to satisfy myself" the AG said.
> 
> He was referring to a system used to calculate interest and debtors' penalties.
> from Compensation fund fails another audit test

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