# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  The infamous Jacob Zuma painting

## adrianh

What's your take on this.

At first I thought it was quite funny but on reflection it does more harm than good. We speak of freedom of expression, but of course this freedom has boundaries. The problem with calling the painting art is that each and every person that has a gripe, be it with their boss or political party will then have free reign to paint this sort of stuff. Imagine the tit for tat art that political party supporters would produce; I can only imagine the art that a supporter of Cosatu would do of Helen Ziller.

All's fair in love and war but remember, if this is the case then the other side has the same rights.

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## Just Gone

I dont think anyone has the right to paint / depict someone else's private parts without their permission.

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## tec0

Well I never saw the painting; don’t think anyone will ever again. It is a shame really that people cannot see the lighter side of life anymore. But I suppose right is right wrong is wrong. Perhaps if it was done outside South Africa? I don’t know… The law will have to make a decision on it.

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## Just Gone

* Image relocated due to publications board age restriction. *

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## Citizen X

I am at a loss for words! I think Julius Malema articulates it quite effectively though:" You've got rubbish in your trousers, rubbish is what is in your trousers."

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## Phil Cooper

At least it is pointing down!  With his relationships, I thought it would usually be standing to attention!

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## IanF

This shows a lack of respect for the Office of the President the First Citizen. 
But doesn't JZ show the same lack of respect?

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## gac

I agree there has to be a moral boundary in everything although everyone has a different boundary I accept. Dont get me wrong I am absolutely no fan of the President at all, quite the contrary, however I thought it is pushing things too far regardless of the person it depicts or their behaviour and therefore feel its worthy of sanction.

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## Citizen X

Point taken Gac! You raise an interesting perspective!

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## Dave A

At the very least it's *controversial* art. But from a symbolism point of view, it's not that far off the mark - JZ is very much an alpha male.

Who's the artist?

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## Nickolai Naydenov

I must be honest, I'm not a JZ fan, but this painting is just wrong, I mean doesn't matter if you are the president or a beggar on the street, either way you wouldn't like that portrar to be you right?

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## Justloadit

I am a very open minded person, however I think this painting is in very bad taste, and quite frankly, this is not art, this was done to create the controversy that we are seeing, and to get free advertising, both for the artist and for the gallery. 

I am not a JZ supporter at all, and feel that he has really let the country down. Even if it did not have the features of JZ, I still would have thought that the painting is in very bad taste, and quite frankly, I can not see the symbolism that is being portrait.

I will show my distaste with my feet, I will not visit the gallery, nor will I purchase any of his art. If I see his art on a friends wall, I will make sure that I will let him know my feelings towards the artist.

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Blurock (19-May-12)

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## Blurock

Our president has let us down and embarrassed us so many times. His corruption case, rape case, association with and appointment of dubious characters as security and police chiefs.... The list goes on and on. 

I have no respect for JC, but the office of our president demands respect. Just as one should salute the rank of an officer, regardless of your personal opinion of that officer (this is not happening in our SADF and that is the reason why it is in such a shambles). 

I agree that the picture (is it art?) is in bad taste. The sensation was obviously created to draw feet to the exhibition.

However, can we trade in JC for Obama? :Blushing:

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tec0 (21-May-12)

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## Citizen X

So the key question here, I think, is where does one draw the line with satire or satirical gestures?

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## Dave A

I believe an interdict application will be heard this coming Tuesday, and it will include an application that images on social media sites must be removed too.

Obviously TFSA will respect and abide by the decision of the court. (Now where have I heard a similar refrain before  :Hmmm:  )

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## AndyD

I'm surprised how many people are against the painting. I'm wondering why with the Zapiro incident Zapiro had much more clear public support than this artist seems to.

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tec0 (21-May-12)

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## Justloadit

Hi Andy,

I think that Zapiro was far more tactful with his cartoon showing a shower head. The current artist, just stuck private parts on an illustration which resembles JZ, and then calls it art.

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## AndyD

I think one of the keywords is 'art' which by definition is engineered to cause an emotion or feeling in the viewer. On this level the painting would handsomely fullfil the definition of being art.

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## Phil Cooper

It has been sold for R136,000 to an overseas collector

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## tec0

In the end South Africans live in shame as "tradition" dictates behaviour of many "important" people. Now is this art? 

Consider this, art is used to "express" an opinion about a "public" figure now how they do it may be controversial, however if it wasnt would anyone have noticed it? 
Fact is if someone cannot express their opinion about someone "in politics" any more can we still consider it to be a democracy?

Cartoon artists had a bad run in?
The media was sued? 

Is it not true that we face a new law that pushes for media blackouts? 
Is it not true that we face new laws regarding government secrecy?

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## Chrisjan B

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Ne...-Zuma-20120521

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tec0 (21-May-12)

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## tec0

> Do the poor enjoy poverty? Do the unemployed enjoy hopelessness? Do those who can't get housing enjoy homelessness? He must get over it. No one is having a good time. He should inspire the reverence he craves. This portrait is what he inspired. Shame neh! [sic]"


  

 :Yes: 

Spoken like a true South African  :Cool:

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## Willie0100

Not much too say about this, however I can say this........
Welcome to the "NEW" South Africa, where you can do what you want, kill, rape steal insult the president by means of a painting......"BUT"!!!! do not spill liquid of any kind on his shoes......You'll get sued.......

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## wynn

Zapiro likes to be part of the controversy

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tec0 (22-May-12)

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## Citizen X

*1. My opinion: The painting is distasteful but is not unlawful. The artist could found many other ways to express his opinion. I don’t know that I really want to see any painting or picture or statue of any man with his genitals exposed!I’m not confident that JZ will succeed with his application. Freedom of expression is at the very heart of a democracy. If citizen perceive a President in a certain manner and articulate such perception in poetry, art and writings, then this is indicative of a wider perception in society. The office of the President should be respected and citizens should also be respected;*
*2. The Government is engaging in selective morality.** They condone the repungent, ‘kill the boer song,’ by standing with Julius Malema on this matter, despite the fact that this song is an infringement of section 16(2)(b) of the very same Constitution of 1996 that the President is now invoking! Struggle songs have their place in our history, I myself sang struggle songs as a kid in high school in the 80’s. There is no longer an Apartheid government and therefore no longer a need for specific struggle songs whose rightful intention was tocall people to arms and revolution. Struggle songs inciting hatred and violence have no purpose or place in a democratic South Africa. My point, the government perceives the ‘kill the boer song,’ to be okay but this painting to be a crime against humanity;*
*3. The President could have won the respect of all South Africans by winning our respect, by using his office to make decisions in our favour i.e When the president seen such profound anti tolling sentiment, he should have then taken the decision that he is scrapping etolling;*


*“10 Human dignity* 

*Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected*
*16 Freedom of expression* 
*(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, which includes-* 
*(a) freedom of the press and other media;* 
*(b) freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;* 
*(c) freedom of artistic creativity; and* 
*(d) academic freedom and freedom of scientific research.* 


*(2) The right in subsection (1) does not extend to-* 

*(a) propaganda for war;* 
*(b) incitement of imminent violence; or* 
*(c) advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm*.”

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Dave A (21-May-12)

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## IanF

Here we go a nude painting of the Canadian prime Minister. Link Quite a different way of handling it.

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## Citizen X

Good afternoon Ian,
At least in this case the prime minister’s spokesman hit back but in a witty manner!
“Parliamentarians called it “a bit tacky,” “pretty close to the line,” and “esthetically offensive.”The prime minister's spokesman Andrew MacDougall reacted in a Twitter message, “We're not impressed. Everyone knows the PM is a cat person.” - Sapa-AFP

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## Justloadit

There's a big difference with respect to the Canadian incident. Firstly, their democracy has been invoked far longer than our democracy, and therefor is far mature to take this type of situation, and secondly with the way in which women are treated, and the number of rape cases reported daily that takes place in RSA, the blatant display of the private parts, basically says that it is an acceptable crime and way to be seen.

It still does not make it acceptable!

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Citizen X (21-May-12)

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## Citizen X

Justloadit, you on to something! Your proposition that our democracy is not as mature as Canada's holds very true! The inference is that we must now see this as teething problems...

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## IanF

Wouldn't it be nice if the ANC and Zuma, just said children behave yourselves like he used to with the ANCYL. Then this would blow over and the media would have to find something else to harp on about.
Also if the gallery and artist just replied we didn't mean to offend you, we thought that satire would be acceptable, so we will just show the painting privately.
Anyway this does show we are a young democracy!

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## Citizen X

I don't really know much about art or how to properly critique any work of art. I’m not that cultured i.e. to go to art exhibitions and galleries etc. Even to my untrained eyes this is not even a nice piece of art. I mean this is not the Mona Lisa! That anyone will actually buy this painting and pay a lot of good money for it is simply beyond me. I maintain that the painting is distasteful but not unlawful. Why would I want to look at another man’s genitals? I honesty can’t see how JZ’s application will succeed? I will be very surprised if it does succeed. What grabs me is the selective morality demonstrated by the ruling party, it’s okay to ‘shoot the boer,’ but it’s not okay to make a satirical painting of a sitting president. Whilst, I’m not into art, I am into political cartoons. A satirical cartoon is very necessary in any democracy.

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## Dave A

> Also if the gallery and artist just replied we didn't mean to offend you


Not a claim they could reasonably sustain, I think. The imagery is undeniably provocative - even intentionally offensive.
Ironically it's part of what helps make it defendable as art.

Here's a thought to ponder -
Fascinating that the ANC intends arguing this based on respect for the office of President and not on the character of the man.

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## IMHO

Something that one should understand about the black mans culture. In the 90's, black men who did not supported the ANC was caught and tied up naked to a lamp post in the street, for everyone to see his genitals. That is because it is the worst humiliation a black man can suffer, in that his children see his private parts. If one understand this, one can understand the reaction and humiliation of JZ. This was a big blunder and all whites will be even more hated for it.

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Citizen X (22-May-12)

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## IanF

Lets see the court decision later. 
If only the ANC could tackle the real problems in SA with the same vigour!

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## Citizen X

> Something that one should understand about the black mans culture. In the 90's, black men who did not supported the ANC was caught and tied up naked to a lamp post in the street, for everyone to see his genitals. That is because it is the worst humiliation a black man can suffer, in that his children see his private parts. If one understand this, one can understand the reaction and humiliation of JZ. This was a big blunder and all whites will be even more hated for it.


Many thanks indeed IMHO for this insight, I was not aware of this. I think learning about each others cultures and taboos is an ongoing exercise!

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## murdock

> Something that one should understand about the black mans culture. In the 90's, black men who did not supported the ANC was caught and tied up naked to a lamp post in the street, for everyone to see his genitals. That is because it is the worst humiliation a black man can suffer, in that his children see his private parts. If one understand this, one can understand the reaction and humiliation of JZ. This was a big blunder and all whites will be even more hated for it.


i was wondering how they could turn this into a racial issue...i take it a white person painted the pic...i am sure the top gear team will have a comment for this painting when they arrive next month..."what a cock"...being white boys they best keep the comment to themselves.

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## Citizen X

Interesting new development: the painting has apparently been destroyed or defaced...

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## tec0

> Interesting new development: the painting has apparently been destroyed or defaced...


It was...

I cannot help but wonder why?... Why was the destruction of the painting that was done by both a minority and majority person deemed by the e-new$ reporter as race thing? Was she not able to see that the minority submitted willingly and the majority resisted? It happened on Camera why did she say what she said? 

WHY? WHY? WHY?

I don't get it?  :No: 


That said a crime no matter how justifiable remains a crime.

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## AndyD

I don't see the point of trying to destroy the painting even if think it's an abhorrence, it's only going to add to the Streisand effect and probably put the painting in the international spotlight instead of just local.

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tec0 (23-May-12)

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## IanF

This would be a great opportunity for a leader in the ANC to become a great statesman. Just drop the court battle and say this has got out of hand and they are just going to ignore the whole thing and ask their supporters to the same.
Will it happen nah!

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## adrianh

I want to know how they are planning to ban it from the internet - maybe JuJu will shut the internet down for them

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## tec0

News is suppose to be impartial was it? 
Will an investigation reveal more?

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## Dave S

I wouldn't consider this to be a "work of art", hell, it doesn't even look like JZ to me? It looks like the artist just stuck a pair of testes and a penis on a picture from a magazine? But the result has been obvious. JZ and the various ANC groups have made it clear that racism is alive and well in SA and we (white SA's) are still paying for segregation. If the artist were a black man, I can almost gaurantee it would have been laughed-off as a prank, now the artist will become renowned and this painting will get international recognition... I think that's what the artist may have had in mind?

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tec0 (23-May-12)

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## ChronicDJ

I've been following this story and the developments since it broke, and I've noticed that the majority of opinions are around this one painting.

Here's a link to the entire exhibition : http://www.goodman-gallery.com/exhibitions/265

Having a look at the other works, I think that the artist's work is excellent political satire with a deep and valid message. However, this one painting however is the least political and the most personal piece of work.
I don't disagree with the painting nor do i think the artist has taken things too far. Nudes have always been a popular style, and fused with political satire makes it all that much more powerful.

Someone on this thread posted about what an exposed penis means in black culture, which made me understand the outrage. But this is a painting, for which Jacob Zuma didn't pose for hence he is not really exposed. So by all means get upset or angry, like one would if you find something distasteful but to attempt to censor it is taking your gripes too far because the artist did not understand what it means in your culture but in his culture (satirical art) it makes perfect sense...reminds me of Christians getting all bothered about halal  stickers on hot cross buns. 
Pointless.

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Dave A (23-May-12)

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## ChronicDJ

@Dave_S, there is a painting Ayanda Mabulu did called "Un-mute my tongue" :http://www.worldart.co.za/news/article.asp?ID=95

This also caused offense and galleries and sponsors refused to have it because of the depictions of the AWB members in it.
Point is that this was quietly dealt with and the artist is relatively unknown still. Whereas, another artist (who happens to be white) paints something less controversial IMO, and is now a household name because of everybody going crazy over a piece that "doesn't even look like JZ"

"Political systems, the media, business and even religion seem to favour those who have. It is so obvious. Why do we accept that?" says Mabulu.

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## tec0

And the rest of the minority in general are left to deal with the repercussions Basically he "the artist" moved the wheel back by about 10 years. 

The media turned it into a fiasco and there we go.  

About two years ago we all can still remember the fiasco interview on e-new$. Can that be considered impartial? And there last report on this fiasco, can it be deemed impartial?

edit:

Upon reading my own post I figured that it looks like I am blaming the artist. This was not my intention. I was hoping to point out that the news "reporters" took it to the next step and is "making the news". 

Thus I continue to question if the reporter acted impartial or not?

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## IMHO

> WHY? WHY? WHY?
> 
> I don't get it?


There is elements in this country that is desperately trying to get a common enemy for the black man, so they can unite and stop the in-fighting which is bound to destroy themselves (the black man). The white man is the ideal common enemy. The 'elements' did not plan this. The artist did it for his own selfish reasons, but played right into the hands of the 'elements', who saw the opportunity and jumped on it. It will not achieve what they actually desire, which is for blacks to en-masse go on a rampage against white, but it goes a long way in strengthening the hatred and set the right atmosphere. 

Their previous attempt also failed. I am referring to the murder of ET. It was pointed out by independent investigators that he was taken out by a hit squad from GP. These accused that was found guilty and acquitted yesterday was just the scape goats. The idea and hope was that ET's followers would take up arms and revenge, giving them (the 'elements') the ideal opportunity to bring their wish to fulfillment. With God's Grace, ET's followers did not step into the trap and their whole plan came to naught.    

So, it is not so difficult to understand why it is made a race thing and why every opportunity to do so will be grabbed. We as whites should just stay calm, understand what is happening and let them sort themselves out. You can also expect more false flag operations, pursuing this agenda. Heaven forbid, but what would happen if a white man (False Flag) take out JZ, at the same time that Mandela lays his head down?

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## wynn

The definition of art is that the depiction must cause emotion, I think this piece of art has succeeded beyond the artists expectations.

From the Daily Maverick
"Zuma can by all means test, in court, whether Murray’s aesthetics and cultural norms should bow to his. For Zuma to win, though, would require demonstrating that his dignity has actually been impaired and not just that his feelings were hurt. And I don’t know about you, but I already had the impression that Zuma was a rather sexual creature. Not because of some identity politics claptrap, but simply because he has “four wives, two exes and 22 children by 10 different women”, as the Economist succinctly put it."

read the rest of the article http://www.thedailymaverick.co.za/op...-painted-black

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## Dave A

> Something that one should understand about the black mans culture. In the 90's, black men who did not supported the ANC was caught and tied up naked to a lamp post in the street, for everyone to see his genitals. That is because it is the worst humiliation a black man can suffer, in that his children see his private parts. If one understand this, one can understand the reaction and humiliation of JZ. This was a big blunder and all whites will be even more hated for it.





> Many thanks indeed IMHO for this insight, I was not aware of this. I think learning about each others cultures and taboos is an ongoing exercise!


Also an interesting insight as to where culture and cultural defense reactions come from (something that has been much on my mind of late, but on a totally different subject).

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## Citizen X

How good and how pleasant it would be, before God and before men to see the unification of all people,.
Unpacking a contentious issue: In the spirit of healthy public disclose, I deem it necessary to unpack this matter. We just talking right! We not fighting?


1.My opinion: The painting is distasteful, disrespectful and immoral. As at todays date it is not unlawful. It lawful status is pending any decision(s) by the South Gauteng High Court;
2. Civil action: Sue for defamation of Presidents character. In my laymans opinion the Presidents legal advisors did not advise him adequately regarding this matter and legal resolutions. In a Constitutional democracy when an artist, poet, newspaper, neigbour etc portrays you in a manner that is defamatory whether by words or conduct, you sue for damages. The President was well within his rights to sue the artist, the gallery and the City Press. Im of the laymans opinion that legally this route would have yielded the desired results. The court would have found in the presidents favour on the basis of defamation of his character as he was acquitted of the rape charge. This would have sent a strong message to anyone that wants to make malicious and defamatory remarks alternatively any artist who wants to express their opinions that: You do it, but you also accept the legal ramifications of your conduct;
3. Its now understood that many Black people find the display of a leaders genitals as repugnant, offensive and malicious. One repugnant lesson from the duty pages of history informs us, that many Black people were put on display as objects in museums and carnivals. Sarah Baartman was displayed for European amusement. Her main difference was only her butt. The people who displayed her done so with malicious intent. The intent was to demonstrate to the White people of that day that Black people were different from White people.
4. Its increasingly difficult to assess Bret Murrays intention. Did he have the same intention(dolus) that the people who enslaved Sarah Baartman had? Was it his intention to insult Black people? Did he have a racist motivation? He should not remain silent on such a contentious issue.It's noteworthy that one of the individuals who defaced that painting is White!
5. If you know your history,Then you would know where you coming from,Then you wouldn't have to ask me,Who the 'eck do I think I am.
6. *Do we really want to go back to Apartheid era censorship*?
7. During Apartheid every newspaper had to apply for registration if they published newspapers more than 10 times a year. The Apartheid government brutally enforced regulations that in essence controlled what every newspaper could and could not publish.
*At the height of the anti-apartheid struggle in the 1980s, when two states of emergency were declared, censorship regulations were tightened. Newspapers were barred from reporting on any demonstrations or activity against the apartheid government or any of its laws.*
*8. So we have 2 Constitutional rights at odds: Freedom of expression(S 16) and Human Dignity(s10), its noteworthy that both these fundamental rights can be limited in terms of section 36.*
9. All our leaders regardless of their race, religion and political affiliation should now diffuse racial tensions. They should take a peace making role and not a role that causes further division and strife.

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## bobo thethe

I thnk da president should step down 4 his sake coz da painting shows lack of respect but respect u earn it.I dnt knw hw he lost it but 4 sure he lost it,remember what they have done 2 Mr Mbeki dts what gt when u undermine the power of education

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## Blurock

Why does the artist not come forward and explain his intentions and the real meaning of his painting? Does he have the courage to defend himself?

JZ deserves all the criticism that he is getting. I do not regard him as a leader and his reputation speaks for itself. However, that is my personal opinion and it does not give me the right to divide a nation and to fuel racial tension by disregarding other people's feelings and culture.

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Chrisjan B (23-May-12)

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## adrianh

I can just se the headlines:

Troublesome Totti causes Toi Toi

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## Citizen X

> Why does the artist not come forward and explain his intentions and the real meaning of his painting? Does he have the courage to defend himself?
> 
> JZ deserves all the criticism that he is getting. I do not regard him as a leader and his reputation speaks for itself. However, that is my personal opinion and it does not give me the right to divide a nation and to fuel racial tension by disregarding other people's feelings and culture.


This artist Bret Murray should come forward in the form of a live TV interview or live radio interview. He and he alone is the original source of this controversy. He should have exercised greater awareness of cultural taboos and what may or may not be offensive to other people. I personally was never before this debacle aware that its taken as an insult in the Black community for someone to depict a leader with his genitals exposed. Artists, poets by virtue of their profession should be aware of what will be deemed to be offensive or not. Im not an artist so this standard of awareness does not apply to me as I will not be introducing any painting for public viewing. This also does not mean that we must now go back to Apartheid like censorship. I maintain that this painting is distasteful, disrespectful and immoral but it is not unlawful. The President should have just sued the artist, the gallery and City Press for defamation of character. Leaders should display statesmanship in such matters. They should promote restraint, dialogue and peace. They should not promote racial tensions in a country with a history of racial tensions. In light of this development, they should now promote workshops in Schools, Universities and the workplace on what different cultures find to be offensive and why they find these acts to be offensive. This will be good statesmanship but allowing a Black v White situation is very poor statesmanship!

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## wynn

Ha ha ha Zapiro

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## Citizen X

I respect freedom of expression. I just think that in the racial tension aftermath of this painting everyone should show restraint. I’ve come to realize that Bret Murray and Zappiro don’t have money as their problem. It therefore costs them nothing to engage in such activities. Bret Murray made some good money on that painting. Both Bret Murray and Zappiro don’t have to go into a workplace every single day where you mingle with people from all races, religions etc. Knowing now, that Black people find such portraits as insulting and distasteful, they should no longer engage in such activities. It’s now apparent that Black people are sensitive to such portraits for several historical reasons. Having a gripe with JZ is one thing but to now offend every day Black people is just not right. You have to draw the line somewhere.
I still maintain that the Government at their costs must initiate workshops in schools, universities and the workplace on what offends the various cultures and sub cultures. It’s one thing to unwittingly insult someone , it’s quite another thing to intentionally hurt people.
What Zappiro is now doing is hurting Black people who are sensitive to this kind of portraits. Such Black people coming from all backgrounds and income groups. Many of them may not even be ANC members.

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## tec0

> I respect freedom of expression. I just think that in the racial tension aftermath of this painting everyone should show restraint. I’ve come to realize that Bret Murray and Zappiro don’t have money as their problem. It therefore costs them nothing to engage in such activities. Bret Murray made some good money on that painting. Both Bret Murray and Zappiro don’t have to go into a workplace every single day where you mingle with people from all races, religions etc. Knowing now, that Black people find such portraits as insulting and distasteful, they should no longer engage in such activities. It’s now apparent that Black people are sensitive to such portraits for several historical reasons. Having a gripe with JZ is one thing but to now offend every day Black people is just not right. You have to draw the line somewhere.
> I still maintain that the Government at their costs must initiate workshops in schools, universities and the workplace on what offends the various cultures and sub cultures. It’s one thing to unwittingly insult someone , it’s quite another thing to intentionally hurt people.
> What Zappiro is now doing is hurting Black people who are sensitive to this kind of portraits. Such Black people coming from all backgrounds and income groups. Many of them may not even be ANC members.


Why is it that only the majority has the right to be offended? I find it interesting that the 58 year old minority seems not be noticed at all. And he was the first to have defaced the painting.  :Confused: 

It seems that the justification and ramifications regarding this topic just became a pedestal for censorship. Again the minority gets chewed out for one person's actions.




> Knowing now, that Black people find such portraits as insulting and distasteful, they should no longer engage in such activities.


Is it then acceptable for an ex minority politician to be pained in the nude after his brutal murder?

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## Citizen X

Tec0, it's not acceptable for any person, group or party to engage in activity that is offensive to any person, party and group. Hence, the workshops in schools, universities and workplace suggestion. Going forward, I think that if we have these workshops, we'll will then know what all racial groups, cultures and sub cultures find offensive and thereby know what is offensive to each other. Artists and poets can and should continue their trade undeterred but the person or persons that they insult should utilise the defamation of character route. It will not be wise to censore the media and freedom of expression. These rights are at the heart of a Constitutional democracy..

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## AndyD

I don't think the artist needs to explain himself, people have already decided what the painting means to them and that's what matters. The racial divide, the simmering hatred and all the other negative emotions were already there and have been for some time, the painting was merely a catylist that brought them to the surface like a poultice on an infected boil. 

I hope there's a thousand more paintings and a thousand more offended Zuma's, maybe bringing the real issues to a head will see them being addressed.

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Chrisjan B (23-May-12), tec0 (23-May-12)

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## adrianh

There is another side to this entire saga. First read this statement then I'll explain what I mean:

"When I walk down a road and a dog barks at me, it says a lot about the dog and nothing about me."

Ok, so this dog raises its voice and says its piece. We are free to react whichever way we choose, we can let it slide, we can kick the dog or we can even write to the newspapers about it. Every time my daughters come home and say that that somebody said something nasty to them I try to teach them that it is a fact of life, there will always be somebody that has something nasty to say. I could go to the school and ask for the nasty child to be punished or even expelled, but of course the problem is that there will always be another nasty child lurking around the corner. The girls need to feel secure enough in themselves not to let sillyness get to them, they need to realize that the person making the statement makes more of a statement about themself than they do about the topic at hand.

So, in that vein, JZ should also be big enough to say that he doesn't take a painting to heart, that he painting says a lot about the views of the painter and nothing about him. If he was a true statesman he would have been able to handle the situation elegantly without taking offence and in so doing shown that he is a big enough man not to allow schoolboy "art" to offend him.

Remember Winston Churchill's comeback...(he got the lady good without hauling her off to court)
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.

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## vieome

The Artist should leave the defaced painting in the gallery as it is as a new peace of art, called politians hiding the truth.

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## IanF

No wonder I sucked at English in school, I struggle to read so much into so little. I couldn't get poetry and Shakespeare. 
Anyway I will move on from this when there are so many other issues that need discussion.

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## Mike C

Received this email today which highlights some of the hypocrisy in our society:

The controversial painting has now been defaced.

2 guys (a white & a black) were arrested.

The ANC's court case is going ahead on Thursday 24 May to force the gallery to remove the artwork.

- A 17 year-old mentally challenged girl was gang raped & the video went viral. No one marched.

- An 8-year-old girl was raped by a 15 year-old boy & her eyes gouged out. No one marched.

- Entire provinces are without school text books - it's almost June. No one marched.

- Our imminent police chief is a gangster & has brought our police service to its knees. No one marched.

- Our country has one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. No one marched.

- Our democracy is going down the toilet but no one marches.

But our country goes hysterical over a painting! We threaten lawsuits, protests & violent reprisals.

Where are our priorities???

What are we thinking??????!!!!

We have now proven beyond doubt that our collective mentality doesn't rise above the waist.

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Blurock (24-May-12), Citizen X (25-May-12)

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## vieome

Artist use lies to hide the truth . Politicians use lies to cover the truth up. visit the portal of truth This website contains great works of art of a similar nature to the now famous Zuma picture. The Zimbabwean artist now lives in exile.

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## vieome

Attachment 2599 http://www.maviyane.com/

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## Dave A

Now Helen Zille is getting nuded too  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Blurock

The difference is; Zille laughed it off and JZ made a fuss.  :Taz:

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## murdock

mike you forgot to mention the little old 78 years old lady who was axed to death in her garden a couple of days ago...she at least got a small block at the bottom of the newspaper.

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## Dave S

> I've been following this story and the developments since it broke, and I've noticed that the majority of opinions are around this one painting.
> 
> Here's a link to the entire exhibition : http://www.goodman-gallery.com/exhibitions/265
> 
> Having a look at the other works, I think that the artist's work is excellent political satire with a deep and valid message. However, this one painting however is the least political and the most personal piece of work.
> I don't disagree with the painting nor do i think the artist has taken things too far. Nudes have always been a popular style, and fused with political satire makes it all that much more powerful.
> 
> Someone on this thread posted about what an exposed penis means in black culture, which made me understand the outrage. But this is a painting, for which Jacob Zuma didn't pose for hence he is not really exposed. So by all means get upset or angry, like one would if you find something distasteful but to attempt to censor it is taking your gripes too far because the artist did not understand what it means in your culture but in his culture (satirical art) it makes perfect sense...reminds me of Christians getting all bothered about halal  stickers on hot cross buns. 
> Pointless.


Point Taken... I am not an art critique by any stretch of imagination, and quite clearly, this piece has become a very contraversial painting. The point is it is art, and that by definition means that the interpretation is in the "eye of the beholder". JZ may find it to be an affront to his person, someone else may see it as humour, etc. Burn it, don't burn it, it's all the same to me, but don't go kicking up a massive outroar of violence and upheaveval over it. Hopefully, Brett will do better next time...

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## adrianh

The problem is that it is no longer merely art when the object of the art is of a recognizable still living human. Be that as it may, I agree that there are far more important things in life to worry about than 

*Tinkerbel & the toi toi'ing tiny troublesome totti*

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## IMHO

Some, like 'The New Age', is just simply hell-bent in making it a racial issue and just do not get it that 'The Spear' is about a President's unacceptable behavior and image he portrays. Look at this comeback. A painting of five white people that has nothing in common with JZ's lifestyle. All they have in common, is that they are white. 




> Disgruntled artists of the painting 'The Shield' which depicts DA leader Helen Zille; the late AWB leader Eugene Terre'Blanche; Koos de la Rey and cartoonist Jonathan Zapiro naked with their arms in the air will be displaying the artwork outside the Goodman Gallery on Thursday. 
> 
>  The painting which was created four days ago is a direct response to the much hated and controversial 'The Spear' painting by Brett Murray which shows President Jacob Zuma with his genitals exposed.
> 
>  Nqobile Ndlovu one of the artists of 'The Shield' said they were insulted by Murrays painting which has no regard for African culture.
> 
>  "Everyone is focusing too much on President Jacob Zuma's private parts being exposed and not the bigger insult," Ndlovu said.
> 
>  "It goes further; the painter will tell me about rights and freedom of expression but without regard of cultural value," he said
> ...


http://www.thenewage.co.za/51596-100...oodman_Gallery

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## Citizen X

Statesmanship
1.     The painting is one thing, how our leaders reacted to it is quite another! It seems that our President believes that history will someday judge him by the mere fact that he made it to the Presidency. The act of becoming President is meaningless. It’s not an achievement, accomplishment or something that future generations will be proud of you. A President is judged by his administration. I’m not a fan of the City Press, I never buy it anyway. I buy the Citizen, in particular The Daily Sun and the Sunday Times(being getting this on e free lately). Senior ANC members are calling for a boycott on the basis that the City Press published something that is not to their liking, so the inference is , if you publish something in our favour that’s fine, if you don’t we have a problem!
2.     In decades to come, history will judge the statesmanship of our leaders on this painting matter harshly. A statesman is a respected leader who promotes the best interests of his/her people. Statesmen are notable for their wisdom, integrity the sincere respect that they win from the vast majority of their people. A statesman by definition always has his wits about him and even in the face of insurmountable obstacles with far reaching implications for people. He maintains his wits and is very cognizant of how he/she reacts to a certain issue. He’s able to win respect even at times when a crisis is of such a proportion that such crisis is likely cause the destruction of his people.
3.     The Cuban missile crisis 1962: Now this was a real crisis! Cuba under guidance from the former Soviet Union was secretly building bases in Cuba for nuclear missiles which could have reached any American State. Kennedy decided to put a naval blockage around Cuba to prevent Soviet ships from delivering more missiles and structures to Cuba. This was at the height of the Cold War. The World was suddenly at the brink of nuclear war. This was a crisis. There were two personalities. John F Kennedy and Nikita Khrushchev. It’s noteworthy that even though the USA and the Soviet Union were enemies, they always maintained open chanels of communication with each other and communicated on a regular basis regardless of what was happening behind the scenes and there was always something happening behind the scenes. One must bear in mind that if either party had lost his cool and taken things personally the entire world would have suffered the consequence of nuclear warfare. Even if attacks were confined to each other it would have affected the entire world economically. We would not have been where we are today had either party lost their cool and ordered the launch of a nuclear missile.
4.     Khruschev send Kennedy a letter which states “your navigation in international waters and air space" constituted "an act of aggression propelling humankind into the abyss of a world nuclear-missile war".
5.     History informed us that Khruschev backed down
6.     My point:“President Kennedy urged Americans to reexamine Cold War stereotypes and myths and called for a strategy of peace that would make the world safe for diversity. Two actions also signaled a warming in relations between the superpowers: the establishment of a teletype "Hotline" between the Kremlin and the White House and the signing of the Limited Nuclear Test Ban Treaty on July 25, 1963.
In language very different from his inaugural address, President Kennedy told Americans in June 1963, "For, in the final analysis, our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal."
7.     JFK was a textbook example of a good statesman!
8.     “Almost all of us can become a politician but only an intellectual with a vision can become a statesman.Its a rare happening.! Statespersonship also conveys a quality of leadership that organically brings people together and of eldership, a spirit of caring for others and for the whole.”
9.     Nelson Mandela is a living example of a statesman

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Blurock (26-May-12), Dave A (25-May-12), Mike C (26-May-12)

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## adrianh

@Vanash - well put.

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Citizen X (25-May-12)

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## IanF

Vanash great post thanks.
What gets me is the way each side digs in. Just think if one side in this was gracious and listened this would be so different. This could be the artist or the President. Just say I did not mean to demean the Office of the President.
But this may be too late.

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## Dave A

If the ANC holds that the good reputation of the Office of President is to be protected at all costs, it's reasonable to conclude the ANC is also responsible for ensuring the person they appoint to that Office is of suitable reputation.

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AndyD (26-May-12), Blurock (26-May-12), Chrisjan B (26-May-12), Citizen X (26-May-12)

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## IanF

The more this unfolds the bigger the hole the ANC seems to have dug. The cynic in me just wonders if the crying lawyer wasn't a defense strategy? 
The real question is how do the voting public  perceive this.
Still it looks like we won't get an elegant end to this!

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## Blurock

*Nandos doesnt mind exposing their cocks!!!*

Neither does the rapists and guys who piss just anywhere they like...

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## IanF

> What a great leader would have done was to defuse this potentially deadly situation by calling for a national dialogue on difficult issues such as how we bridge the important values of human dignity and the respect for leaders, on the one hand, and freedom of expression and the right to criticism, on the other hand. I could not help think of that moment when President Obama defused a nasty racial situation by bringing together the black Harvard professor and the white Boston policeman after the latter arrested the prof when he assumed the black man was breaking into a home; his own home, it turns out. The leader invited the two men for a beer in the White House gardens.


Professor Jansen needs to be listened to!
Moneyweb article

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tec0 (26-May-12)

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## tec0

I dont mind Obama he was handed a crappy hand and did good with what he got. The truth is Obama is a real leader. I think if they give him a second chance he will do good on his promises. Truth is he had a lot to "correct" given the difficulties at hand. I dont think any other person would have done any better. Truth is there is only so much one can do. 

The man is willing to listen He walks among his voters, stuff like that counts in my eyes. It shows me he takes note. That is commendable in my opinion. 

Despite the critic of everyone Obama did better than most.

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## Phil Cooper

Gabriel Shock Absorbers have followed the Nandos ad, but with a shock absorber at the crutch of JZ - and the headline "To shock or not to shock"   :-)

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## gac

Unfortunately the painting enables the Government to again exploit a situation to their own advantage and distract the nation from the real issues they're struggling with - Cele, Mdluli, the Arms Deal Probe, rampant corruption and other issues. It also affords them an opportunity to stir up he revolutionary spirit amongst the "blind" masses and galvanize support for the ruling party.

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Blurock (28-May-12)

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## wynn

There is another view that hasn't been expressed yet?

This is a painting of a well known poster of Lenin with two dicks painted on it, one in the crotch area and one in the head area???

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## ChronicDJ

Zapiro obviously behind Brett Murray on this one. Here's Murrays official statement : http://www.zapiro.com/Sponsored-by/B...ted-the-Spear/

I see where the artist is coming from and completely agree with the messages in all of his work. 
The fact that the current government is trying to silence and censor their critics highlights that this administration is no different from the previous one. The irony is that the current one were the critics of the previous one and the one being silenced.

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## Blurock

It appears as if there are more people considering this whole smeary "spear" affair as extremely juvenile, both from the artists perspective and the (over) reaction by JC and his ANC buddies.

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/201...-europe-weekly

 :Shutup2:

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## Blurock

They couldn't find a better place to demonstrate?  :Whistling:

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IanF (28-May-12), tec0 (29-May-12)

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## Dave A

When the law isn't in your favour, use intimidation.

City Press has bowed to pressure to remove the image of The Spear from their website.

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## AndyD

I don't blame Ms Haffajee for her decision, at the end of the day there's safety concerns for their employees. The campaign against City Press and the gallery is nothing short of bullying by the ANC and it's allies. I'm not decided how much of their behaviour is plain immaturity and how much was orchestrated as lead up to Mangaung.

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## Dave A

> I'm not decided how much of their behaviour is plain immaturity and how much was orchestrated as lead up to Mangaung.


Now there's a thought! Either way, it actually provides some very workable material for a competing candidate at Mangaung - if there *is* anyone prepared to stand up and make a pretty committed play.

Who's in the top echelons and has been staying quiet on the subject?

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## IanF

The ANC are showing no magnanimity in there apparent victory and are just showing there bullying side. That is a worrying trend. Intolerance has no place in society.

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tec0 (29-May-12)

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## flaker

> When the law isn't in your favour, use intimidation.
> 
> City Press has bowed to pressure to remove the image of The Spear from their website.


Dave,its your turn now. Did i see a pic somewhere in this thread? :Detective:

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## AndyD

> Dave,its your turn now. Did i see a pic somewhere in this thread?


You'd better let Wikipeadia know as well, I'm sure they're worried in case COSATU decide to organise a protest march on their servers in Florida or Amsterdam.

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## Citizen X

1.  Can of worms: The thing with a can of worms is that once you have opened it you can’t put those worms back in that can and you can’t seal that can;
2.  In law we have a latin maxin that is used in all our South African courts and that dates back centuries, ‘audi alteram partem,’(there’s 2 sides to a story). On Zappiro’s website, Bret Murray had this to say: 
“I was born in South Africa and raised, in the 1970s and 1980s, in a society that was perverted, controlled by corrupt, morally bereft politicians who treated South Africa – my country – as a personal fiefdom of their racist elite. To preserve their position of illegitimate power, tactics of intimidation, coercion, violence, manipulation, and misuse of intelligence and police forces, were the norm.
Censorship prevailed and freedom of expression was severely curtailed. White men, such as me, were conscripted into the army to take up arms against fellow South Africans, to fight a war we did not believe in against enemies that we considered to be friends.
I [therefore], in order to avoid conscription, studied for 10 years, and thereafter went into self-imposed exile in London until the ANC was unbanned and I returned to South Africa.
While I was studying, I was involved in anti-apartheid activities in the trade union movement, church groups, youth groups, and the End Conscription Campaign. As an artist, I produced and designed banners, posters, stickers, protest worker diaries and the like in support of the struggle.
It was growing up in this apartheid society that caused me, from an early age, to think about issues of power, race, politics, patriarchy, oppression and the manipulation of the media.
Indeed, these themes have by and large prevailed through my work as an artist over many years.
When I studied for my master’s in fine arts, I reflected satirically on the apartheid regime. The works consisted of satirical figures describing policemen with dynamite in their ears, pigs as soldiers.
Like many other South Africans, I embraced the dawn of a new South Africa. I was teaching art at Stellenbosch University in 1994 when South Africa’s first democratic election was held and, as a supporter of the ANC, I proudly cast my ballot on April 27 1994.
That day signified hope, freedom, an end to tyranny and the dawn of a new era for me, my countrymen and the whole world. South Africa moved from being a pariah state to being the proudest nation in the world.
As our democracy developed, cracks began to show in the way that the ruling elite was implementing the ideals of the Freedom Charter and our constitution.
From my perspective as an artist I felt a sense of betrayal, where heroes of the struggle now appeared to be corrupt, power-hungry and greedy, or where ideals that many had died or made sacrifices for were abandoned on the altar of expedience.
Over the past few years one ongoing narrative in our society has been the story of the first applicant [President Jacob Zuma]. For instance, in a judgment implicating the first applicant, a court found that the first applicant was closely linked to his former financial adviser, Schabir Shaik, who was found guilty of corruption.
Another controversial feature of the first applicant’s public life was the failure by the prosecuting authorities to proceed with corruption charges against him, notwithstanding the apparent existence of evidence to sustain such charges.
Details of the first applicant’s sex life have been well documented in the public domain. Notwithstanding the fact that he has four wives, he has engaged in extra-marital sex on at least two occasions.
For me, satire is critical entertainment. While I might be attacking and ridiculing specific targets, what I am actually doing is articulating my vision of an ideal world in which I want to live . In this instance, that preferred ideal in the South African context is the Freedom Charter.
What satire can do in a political context is that it can be seen as a political contestation as it opens political debate.
The resulting debate that has surrounded this work is in itself evidence that this does happen and that artwork can provoke these debates, however unsettling they might be.
There is therefore no reason for artists to be censored, however uncomfortable this might be for individuals and for society at large.
For me, The Spear has a far broader meaning than some of the public discourse on its meaning, including the first applicant’s interpretation. It is a metaphor for power, greed and patriarchy.”
3.   Before this debacle, I never heard of Bret Murray or the Goodman gallery. I never seen an advert on tv about Bret Murray or the Goodman gallery. I have seen any news event regarding the Goodman Gallery. The ANC caused this piece of art to become world wide news. I’m of the opinion that had the ANC not created so much publicity around this painting the German buyer would have simply taken his painting back to his home, hung it up on his wall and we would have never heard about him and the painting ever again! We now have a situation where the painting is far more valuable than it was in it’s original state, there’s a Wikipedia page and it has drawn world wide interest. You may get some character from the Ukrain who for his own reasons decides to create his own website with this painting and no South African Court order or ANC protest March or COSATU  condemnation will be able to stop him from maintaining such a website;
4.    I find it profoundly moving that we have real cases of racism in our schools, universities and  the workplace that go unnoticed!  The same question marks are not there! This spear painting has caused a flurry in our country and no one can say for certain that it’s a racist gesture as the artist claims it’s not a racist gesture. This then begs the question: what are racist actions and gestures? This flurry is deflecting attention from actual cases of racism! I know that this is a thorny issue and that many Black people are offended by this painting. I’m not being irreverent  I’m merely saying that there are actual cases of racism which don’t attract the attention that this painting has attracted;
5.   There is nothing laughable about the following 2 articles! They are actual acts of racial prejudice. This is racial prejudice, this is wrong, this kind of activity should be condemned, these victims should be given just recourse. The clear racism levied at these two individuals in these two articles are far more severe and insulting than is the spear painting. The spear painting is a grey area, one cannot say for certain if it’s racist especially because the artists says that it’s not!
6.   In article 1, a very racist supervisor made some kind of fake drivers license on his computer which intent was to insult his co worker a gentleman by the name of Ben Baloyi. The racist supervisor depicted Ben as a baboon on a fake drivers license. This is racism, it’s clear that it’s racism. It’s wrong and was rightfully condemned but it did not receive the attention the spear is currently receiving. Ben was insulted in a direct racist gesture;
7.   In Article 2, Two gentleman, Ntoko Mpanzi and Sibusiso were the victims of an ugly racist act by their employer. Their employer continuously referred to them in that derogatory racist word used to insult Black people. The employer assaulted the one employee by forcibly putting his head in the toilet. The employer spray painted their faces on more than one occasion. This is a clear unequivocal act of ugly racism. It’s far more sever than the spear painting, yet these two victims did not get world wide publicity for the gross infringement of their rights to respect and dignity. No one marched in their favour and no one championed their cause. How must they feel today watching tv and seeing that the President gets so much attention for a painting that the artists maintains is not racist!

8.   “A former black England international defender has warned fans not to go to Euro 2012 or else “you might come back in a coffin”. There is racism and violence in soccer by neo nazi characters. Their actions are very clear, it’s racist, you can see that it’s racist. There’s no question about whether their actions are racist or not, it clear ugly racism which should be condemmed! Have a look at this video:-

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## Dave A

> Dave,its your turn now. Did i see a pic somewhere in this thread?


If the time comes, may I show more intestinal fortitude than some others have so far. If anyone wants to depict me with privates showing, I'd like to make sure they credit me with humungous balls.

I couldn't believe it when I heard City Press rolled over on this one.

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## Citizen X

I’m honesty plain fed up with the following  rhetoric. The Blacks this, the Whites that. Actions of individuals are attributed to entire racial groups! The parties on this matter remain Bret Murray, The Goodman gallery and the City Press. Entire racial groups cannot be implicated in any act or ommission by these parties!
1.I maintain my opinion that the painting is distasteful, disrespectful and immoral but that this painting is not unlawful as at today’s date. In my opinion it’s not racist. There are so many genuine cases of hideous racism that is plaguing our society but they go unnoticed and the perpetrators of such racism continue with these acts. The ANC is not consistent. They willing to say that the ‘shoot the boer,’ song is fine in that it’s a struggle song and should therefore be condoned but that this painting is racist. The ANC did not champion any marches or protests when Julius Malema called Lindiwe Mazibuko ‘the madam’s ‘tea girl,’2. When Juluis Malema made racists remarks at a rally in Lenasia against Indian people, no furore, no marches, no protests! He said, Your children must be allowed to go to school with amakula (‘coolie’) children.” 
“In March 2010, at a rally on a university campus Malema sang the lyrics "shoot the Boer" (_Dubul' ibhunu_) from the anti-apartheid song _Ayasab' amagwala_ (the cowards are scared) ("Boer" is the Afrikaans word for "farmer", but is also used as a derogatory term for any white personHis singing was compared to similar chants by deceased Youth League leader Peter Mokaba in the early 1990s, to "kill the boer",which had previously been defined as hate speech by the South African Human Rights Commission. The Southern Gauteng High Court ruled on 26 March 2010 that Malema's song (which he had continued singing at public gatherings) was "unconstitutional and unlawful", and that any person singing it could face charges of incitement to murder, stating that the song called for the killing of the "farmer/white man", however, the ANC defended the song. The ANC announced it would appeal the ruling. The Northern Gauteng High Court, on 1 April 2010 then granted an interdict preventing Malema from publicly uttering the words of this or any other song which could be considered to be instigating violence, distrust and/or hatred between black and white citizens in the Republic of South Africa" until the matter was heard by the Equality Court, to which the case was referred by the presiding judge. 

“In April 2011 Afriforum brought a case of hate speech against Malema in regard to the song and several notable ANC figures such as Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and secretary-general Gwede Mantashe threw their weight behind him in the court battle.” 

We must all work together regardless of our race and religion to defeat the ghosts of our Apartheid past! When individuals engage in any conduct that may be deemed as racist, dialogue and/or legal action should be directed at that specific individual and not an entire racial group.

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Blurock (30-May-12)

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## wynn

I have heard a whiff of feint hints that there is another baby scandal about to break, perhaps that is what this is about, the last straw to break the camels back?

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## adrianh

What other scandal?

On second thoughts, it probably involves another baby.

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## Citizen X

Scandal? Baby? In South Africa? NO,It can never be, we proudly a scandal free nation! Our leaders are the epitome of role models. We should give them some form of a medal or prize...

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## IanF

No statesmen in the Tripartite Alliance then!
"People get the Government they deserve" ~  Joseph de Maistre
What did we do get our Goverment  :Confused:

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## Dave A

> We should give them some form of a medal or prize...


How about a painting?  :Whistling:

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## adrianh

I think that *The Freedom Charter* should be given a new name in celebration of the expression of democracy, you know, where a lot of people are bussed in to a gallery to threaten to burn the building down because of a painting of a tottermannetjie.

The new name will be: *The Flushed Away Charter*...

Viva Democracy, where all* are equal

**all - means those who are more equal*

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## tec0

Imagine for a moment the painting is still new and being showed. The painting name proudly displayed. Now people look at it and see "someone" and they say this is "someone" hanging brain. 

Then the media comes and add fuel to the story hoping to start something big so that they can get exclusives and so on. The title ends up " this is "someone" with their genitals exposed." This "someone" then runs to court screaming "violation this and bla bla bla" 

Ok now the artist walked in the court room and is asked "Why did you paint this horrible picture of "someone" 
Artist reply: I did not, the painting is named "its name" and it shows a "nameless person with his genitals exposed" It is symbolic for this and that reason. I never said it was this "someone" you are talking about you made your own conclusions. 

Now if that was the case and the artist played the game intelligently the painting would still be up and so on and so forth… 

Always remember people see what they want to see. 

Just a thought.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Blurock

> Im honesty plain fed up with the following  rhetoric. The Blacks this, the Whites that. Actions of individuals are attributed to entire racial groups! The parties on this matter remain Bret Murray, The Goodman gallery and the City Press. Entire racial groups cannot be implicated in any act or ommission by these parties!
> 
> In April 2011 Afriforum brought a case of hate speech against Malema in regard to the song and several notable ANC figures such as Winnie Madikizela-Mandela and secretary-general Gwede Mantashe threw their weight behind him in the court battle. 
> 
> We must all work together regardless of our race and religion to defeat the ghosts of our Apartheid past! When individuals engage in any conduct that may be deemed as racist, dialogue and/or legal action should be directed at that specific individual and not an entire racial group.


The actions of the ANC and their alliance partners have exposed them for the racist that they are. I agree that we should think before opening our mouths. We should rather act in the interest of this beautiful country than to promote political parties and splinter groups for self interest. Some of these politicians makes me ashamed to be a South African.  :Blushing:

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tec0 (30-May-12)

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## Mike C

I am not wanting to add fuel to the fire, but here is a painting by Ayanda Mabulu *titled *Ngcono *ihlwempu kunesibhanxa *sesityebi (Better poor than a rich *puppet). In this work, Jacob Zuma is depicted with his exposed penis supported by a crutch 

As the nations blood boiled over Brett Murrays painting in which President Jacob Zumas genitals were exposed, similarly shocking work by another artist has been ignored. 

Ayanda Mabulu, a Cape Town-based artist, has been producing far more harrowing works since 2010. 

One of his paintings that caught the public eye last week is titled Ngcono ihlwempu kunesibhanxa sesityebi (Better poor than a rich puppet). 

It depicts a group of South African leaders alongside American presidents Barack Obama and George W Bush. 

In this work, Jacob Zuma is depicted with his exposed penis supported by a crutch, apparently to symbolise the frequency of Zumas sexual behaviour.

Other nude figures include a reclining Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, whose genitals are also exposed.

Theres also a pig waving the apartheid-era South African flag. 

Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe and a chimpanzee are also included in the composition.

You can google the artists name for more info.

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## adrianh

@MikeC - A black artits painted JZ's tottie...Now lets see them march!

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## Phil Cooper

The controversial painting has now been defaced. 

2 guys (a white & a black) were arrested. 

The ANC’s court case is going ahead on Thursday 24 May to force the gallery to remove the artwork.

- A 17 year-old mentally challenged girl was gang raped & the video went viral. No one marched.
- An 8-year-old girl was raped by a 15 year-old boy & her eyes gouged out. No one marched.
- Entire provinces are without school text books - it’s almost June. No one marched.
- Our imminent police chief is a gangster & has brought our police service to its knees. No one marched.
- Our country has one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. No one marched.  
- Our democracy is going down the toilet but no one marches.

But our country goes hysterical over a painting! We threaten lawsuits, protests & violent reprisals. 

Where are our priorities???

What are we thinking??????!!!!

We have now proven beyond doubt that our collective mentality doesn’t rise above the waist.

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## AndyD

The gallery has decided not to rehang the painting and to remove its image from their website. The ANC has expressed their satisfaction.

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## vieome

The spear has been bought by a German art collector  SABC

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## vieome

And now the memes http://mg.co.za/multimedia/2012-05-2...-of-the-nation

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## wynn

And if the owner takes the painting to Germany and you want to view it you will have to trace the spoor of the 'spear'  :Smile:

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## Just Gone

Just to change the topic slightly ..................  How about the mother that made a hoax phone call yesterday saying there was a bomb aboard the flight that her daughter was going to take to George ! ?????

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## Dave A

And back on topic - I quite liked this article by Khaya Dlanga. Ultimately quite similar to my view, except my by-line would be "The ANC *could* be better than this". 

If it *is* better, they wouldn't have gone about things the way they did, would they.

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tec0 (31-May-12)

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

I'll most likely get flack for this, but here goes anyway....

Personally I believe that he, with rampant penis, put that appendage squarely(?) in the public domain.

I also can't help wondering about the choice of name for the painting...
We all know that uMkhonto we sizwe means basically "Spear Of The Nation". That, rather succinctly, puts it in a nutshell. Pun not intended. Only, spears are straight, sharp and threatening; hardly a similarity.  I find the absence of similarity between the MK of old and the ANC of new, to be quite stark.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "distasteful art". Distasteful subject matter yes, but that's rather the point of art.

There is no satire in that painting. It is brutal and loaded with bitterness and cynicism, which is, I gather, exactly how the artist had come to feel.

The developments since has only served to put the long suffering appendage more firmly in the _international_ public domain.

Anyone who takes a politician seriously has himself got serious issues; I believe they ultimately get what they deserve.

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## adrianh

No flac from me...




> I don't believe there is such a thing as "distasteful art". Distasteful subject matter yes, but that's rather the point of art.


I am going to to stash this line in my treasurechest of wisdom.

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## Just Gone

@ Clive .......... respect your opinion, but the majority of people seem to think it is distatefull.  Personally I agree - if everyone was allowed to go around disrespecting your leader you would have anarchy.  You will never get everyone to agree with a leader or someone with political opinions, but you still have to show some respect at the end of the day.

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## Dave A

The picture has now been rated PG16 by the SA Publications Board. I've taken appropriate measures to ensure TFSA complies with the rating requirements.

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## Citizen X

My final thoughts on this painting debacle are as follows:
1.The problem and challenge with this painting debacle is that it has now made racism very difficult to define or to identify. All South Africans know what racism is. We all aware of all those repugnant Apartheid words used to insult various racial groups. We also know how discrimination presents itself. This painting is a grey area, a ‘he said, she said, debacle.’ The artist Bret Murray is an anti Apartheid activist, he provides that racism was not his intention. His satirical painting is directed at one individual and not the entire Black population group. The ANC says its racist, the artist says it’s not racist, a typical ‘he said, she said,’ scenario. To surmise we have verifiable instances of public racism by Julius Malema. There is no confusion that his actions were racist. His outbursts should be seen as clear example of racism; 
2.The painting is distasteful, disrespectful and immoral. As at today’s date it’s not unlawful. In my opinion it’s not racism. It’s just disrespectful. If I critique that piece of art, and it will be a layman’s critique, and I will critique it on a presumption that JZ is not the man portrayed in the painting but rather that Mr X is portrayed in that painting and further that the name of the painting is not ‘the spear,’ but rather ‘The pillar,’ I find as follows:
3. It’s a hideous piece of art that I most certainly will not pay any gallery to go and see it.I certainly will not buy such a painting. It has mostly dark colours and is not a pleasant painting to look at. It’s certainly no Mona Lisa! It doesn’t matter whether it’s Jz’s genitals or Mr X’s genitals but I don’t want to be looking at any man’s genitals.
4. Pornography:  16 N: Try this, take a picture of that painting and ask Hustler or Playboy to publish it as pornography and see what they say! Former US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart remarked on pornography, saying, ‘I know it when I see it’.
4. The figure depicted in that painting before it was defaced doesn’t even look like Jacob Zuma. I’m not entirely certain how it is identified as Jacob Zuma i.e. does it have his name at the bottom or is it from inference of ‘The Spear,’ that this painting is identified as a painting portraying JZ? A good artist should be able to accurately paint a specific person. I know nothing about art or sculptures but I know a great deal about music and poetry. I know that the same interpretative element used in music and poetry finds application in art.
5. Alls well that ends well. I commend the ANC for the manner in which they brought closure i.e. not taking the freedom of expression to court;
6. The problem with poetry and art is that it is subject to interpretation: In 1986 I became fascinated with the rich metaphors and analogies in reggae music. One song in particular had me mind boggled for some 15 years. “ They say the sun shines for all, but I tell you that in some people’s worlds it don’t shine at all.’ My interpretation was that this meant that some people live good lives because they have wealth and all the luxuries that wealth can bring and therefore the sun shines in their life whilst on the other hand we have people living in informal settlements under abject misery and as a result of this the sun doesn’t shine in their world at all. My interpretation was wrong! In 2001 after 15 years after the fact I bought the book, ‘Catch a fire: The Life of Bob Marley by Timothy White. I was surprised to learn that Bob Marley meant that because some people have God in their lives the sun shines in their lives but other people don’t have God in their lives and therefore the sun doesn’t shine in their lives!
7. Perception: Rorschach inkblot test:I’m no psychologist, I’m the mental patient! That said, even as a layman to medicine I know that different people will perceive the ink blots in the 
Rorschach inkblot test differently!
8. Now of course, my point of departure with these tests will always be ‘The Watchmen, Rorchach’s answers to the psychologist questions. Rationale: Even though the inkblot pictures may make you see violent and murderous activities, you don’t say so!


What do you see when you see these inkblots?


*In the movie Rorchach seen some violent and murderous things when he was shown the inkblots!!! When asked , What do you see? He replied, ‘some nice pretty flowers,’ ‘a nice little butterfly,’
** I proudly give you the best way to answer when faced with these inkblots!!!*

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## Dave A

I can't understand why the Goodman Gallery and some of the art world are trying to appeal the ruling by the publications board. All the shenanigans that have gone on about this picture really proves the board's point - the picture is only suitable for a mature audience.

If I was going to argue with the board's ruling, it would merely be to point out that being over the age of 16 is clearly no assurance of maturity. But what do you do - give everyone an art appreciation and intellectual maturity quiz before they can view the painting?

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## adrianh

Well, now that artworks that have a tottie are considered to be rated 16 I've had to cover up all my art. I covered all the totties in the house with pink glow in the dark condoms - so the questions is this; is a statue of David in its natural form more offensive than the same statue sporting a neon pink glow in the dark condom. Now when anybody walks in the house they no longer go 'wow, that is a nice life size statue of David', no, they now go 'f....me, that dude has a big glow in the dark neon weener'

Now here is a question, If I were to do an artwork of myself with my weener pointing south, am I allowed to put that artwork on my own website, if yes, howcome, if not, then who is going to stop me. Girlie sites let it all hang out and the ANC don't complain about that.

I have just decided what my new avatar is going to be, ok, I can't sport a spear, JZ has dibs on that, but I can sure sport a model train.

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## Blurock

The juveniles have won. The "spear" is now a racist word. All references to Shakespeare, spearmint, spear tackle or any other spears are now offensive and these words  should be blotted from our dictionaries. We should also not display images of spears and should remove all such offensive images. :Surrender:  :Helpsmilie:

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## adrianh

In order to reconcile a nation divided by "The Spear", Stevie Wonder just released a new song entitled:

*Ebony and Ivory Schlongs*

which tells about some buck naked black dude and a buck naked white dude sharing a piano stool :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Phil Cooper

> @ Clive .......... respect your opinion, but the majority of people seem to think it is distatefull.  Personally I agree - if everyone was allowed to go around disrespecting your leader you would have anarchy.  You will never get everyone to agree with a leader or someone with political opinions, but you still have to show some respect at the end of the day.


Kevin- I thought the whole idea of a democracy is that you can disrespect whom you wish?

Any political (or other) leader must EARN respect - and the way Zuma has acted sexually and in other ways soes NOTHING to gain my respect.

In fact, just the opposite.

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## Citizen X

:Offtopic: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."




Clinton lied to his people but he still managed to be the come back kid, if you excuse the pun. It's really a matter of how you react.I'm glad that the ANC are no longer taking freedom of expression to court....

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## Just Gone

I'm not sure where it said that democracy gives you the right to disrespect whom you wish ?  I do appreciate that you have the freedom to express your opinion.  But surely this should still be done in a respectfull way !

I understand that you would not respect Zuma, but the same goes for the old apartheid Presidents - they also did things that people could not stand and not accept - you could not and should not have disrespected them this way either - and some of them gave me more reason to "disrespect" them !!

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## Citizen X

:Offtopic: 
What is accepted as freedom of expression in the States. The maturity of our democracy..an illustration…


Warning: 16 N,L,S, & PG

1. Eminem and his alter ego ‘Slim Shady,’ gave new insight into what is really acceptable when it comes to freedom of expression. These songs were released some 15 years ago in the States! He insulted everyone from Michael Jackson, George Bush, Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears very directly, in very disdainful language. He expression his right to freedom of expression!
2. I direct your attention to 3 of his songs(certain lyrics) and I encourage you to ask yourself: Is our democracy as mature as the States when it comes to freedom of expression??
3. A) ‘My name is slim shady,’ ” Hi kids! Do you like violence? (yeah yeah yeah!)
Wanna see me stick nine inch nails through each one of my eyelids? (uh huh!)Wanna copy me and do exactly like I did? (yeah yeah!)
Try 'cid and get fucked up worse than my life is? (huh?)
My brain's dead weight, I'm tryin' to get my head straight
But I can't figure out which Spice Girl I want to impregnate (Ummmm..)
Dr. Dre said: "Slim Shady you a basehead."
Uh-uhhh! "Then why's ya face red, man you wasted"
Well since age 12 I've felt like I'm someone else
Cuz I hung my original self from the top bunk with a belt
Got pissed off and ripped Pamela Lee's tits off
And smacked her so hard I knocked her clothes backwards like Kris Kross
I smoke a fat pound of grass and fall on my ass
Faster than a fat bitch who sat down too fast
C'mere slut! (Shady, wait a minute, that's my girl dog!)
I don't give a fuck, God sent me to piss the world off
My English teacher wanted to have sex in junior high
Only problem was, my English teacher was a guy
I smacked him in his face with an eraser
Chased him with a stapler
And stapled his nuts to a stack of paper (Owwwwwwww!)
Walked in a strip club, had my jacket zipped up
Flashed the bartender and stuck my dick in the tip cup (Wsssshhhhh...)
Extraterrestrial, kill'n pedestrians
Rap'n lesbians while they're screamin' "LET'S JUST BE FRIENDS!"
99% of my life I was lied to
I just found out my mom does more dope than I do
I told her I'd grow up to be a famous rapper
Make a record about doin' drugs and name it after her (Oh thank you!)
You know you blew up when the women rush the stands
To try to touch your hands like some screamin' Usher fans (Aaahhhhhh!)
I just drank a fifth of vodka...dare me to drive? (Go 'head.)
All my life I was very deprived
I ain't had a woman in years, my palms are too hairy to hide
Clothes ripped like the Incredible Hulk
I spit when I talk, I'll fuck anything that walks (C'mere.)
When I was little I used to get so hungry I would throw fits
HOW YOU GONNA BREAST FEED ME MOM? YOU AIN'T GOT NO TITS!..”
4. On 25 October 2004, a week before the us presidential election, your truly released a video especially for George Bush, the video was clearly anti Bush. It’s a no brainer actually with lyrics such as , ‘Fuck Bush,’ and ‘this weapon of mass destruction that we call our president.’
5. B) ‘The real slim shady,’ “Y'all act like you never seen a white person before, Jaws all on the floor like Pam, like Tommy just burst in the door and started whoopin her ass worse than beforethey first were divorce, throwin her over furniture (Ahh!)
It's the return of the... "Ah, wait, no way, you're kidding,he didn't just say what I think he did, did he?...Sometimes, I wanna get on TV and just let loose, but can't
but it's cool for Tom Green to hump a dead moose
"My bum is on your lips, my bum is on your lips"And if I'm lucky, you might just give it a little kiss And that's the message that we deliver to little kids And expect them not to know what a woman's clitoris is
Of course they gonna know what intercourse is by the time they hit fourth grade
They got the Discovery Channel don't they?
"We ain't nothing but mammals.." Well, some of us cannibals
who cut other people open like cantaloupes 
But if we can hump dead animals and antelopes
then there's no reason that a man and another man can't elope
But if you feel like I feel, I got the antidote
Women wave your pantyhose, sing the chorus and it goes

Will Smith don't gotta cuss in his raps to sell his records;
well I do, so fuck him and fuck you too!
You think I give a damn about a Grammy?
Half of you critics can't even stomach me, let alone stand me
"But Slim, what if you win, wouldn't it be weird?"
Why? So you guys could just lie to get me here?
So you can, sit me here next to Britney Spears?
Shit, Christina Aguilera better switch me chairs
so I can sit next to Carson Daly and Fred Durst
and hear 'em argue over who she gave head to first
You little bitch, put me on blast on MTV
"Yeah, he's cute, but I think he's married to Kim, hee-hee!"
I should download her audio on MP3
and show the whole world how you gave Eminem VD 
I'm sick of you little girl and boy groups, all you do is annoy me
so I have been sent here to destroy you 
And there's a million of us just like me
who cuss like me; who just don't give a fuck like me
who dress like me; walk, talk and act like me
and just might be the next best thing but not quite me!
I'm like a head trip to listen to, cause I'm only givin you
things you joke about with your friends inside your living room
The only difference is I got the balls to say it
in front of y'all and I don't gotta be false or sugarcoated at all
I just get on the mic and spit it
and whether you like to admit it just shit it
better than ninety percent of you rappers out can
Then you wonder how can kids eat up these albums like valiums
It's funny; cause at the rate I'm goin when I'm thirty
I'll be the only person in the nursin home flirting
Pinchin nurses asses when I'm jackin off with Jergens
And I'm jerkin but this whole bag of Viagra isn't working
And every single person is a Slim Shady lurkin..”


6. C) ‘Without Me,’ 





2 trailer park girls go round the outside
round the outside, round the outside
Guess whos back, back again
Shadys back, tell a friend
Guess who's back, guess who's back,
guess who's back
Guess who's back...

I've created a monster, cuz nobody wants to
see Marshall no more they want Shady I'm chopped liver
well if you want Shady, this is what I'll give ya
a little bit of weed mixed with some hard liquor
some vodka that'll jumpstart my heart quicker than a
shock when I get shocked at the hospital by the Dr. when I'm not cooperating
when I'm rocking the table while he's operating
you waited this long now stop debating cuz I'm back,
I'm on the rag and ovulating
I know that you got a job Ms. Cheney but your husband's heart problem's complicating
So the FCC wont let me be or let me be me so let me see
they tried to shut me down on MTV but it feels so empty without me
So come on and dip, bum on your lips fuck that,
cum on your lips and some on your tits and get ready cuz this shit's about to get heavy
I just settled all my lawsuits Fuck YOU DEBBIE!

Now this looks like a job for me so everybody just follow me
cuz we need a little controversy,
cuz it feels so empty without me

Little hellions kids feeling rebellious
embarrassed, their parents still listen to Elvis
they start feeling like prisoners, helpless,
'til someone comes along on a mission and yells "bitch"
A visionary, vision is scary, could start a revolution, pollutin the air waves a rebel
so let me just revel and bask, in the fact that I got everyone kissing my ass
and it's a disaster such a catastrophe for you to see so damn much of my ass you ask for me?
Well I'm back 
fix your bent antennae tune it in and then I'm gonna
enter in and up under your skin like a splinter
The center of attention back for the winter
I'm interesting, the best thing since wrestling
Infesting in your kids ears and nesting
Testing "Attention Please" feel the tension soon as someone mentions me
here's my 10 cents my 2 cents is free
A nuisance, who sent, you sent for me?

A tisk-it a task-it, I'll go tit for tat with anybody who's talking this shit, that shit.
Chris Kirkpatrick you can get your ass kicked
worse than them little Limp Bizkit bastards, and Moby
you can get stomped by Obie, you 36 year old bald headed fag blow me
You don't know me, you're too old let go its over, nobody listens to techno
Now let's go, just give me the signal I'll be there with a whole list full of new insults
I've been dope, suspenseful with a pencil ever since
Prince turned himself into a symbol
But sometimes the shit just seems, everybody only wants to discuss me
So this must mean I'm disgusting, but its just me I'm just obscene…”
...

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## tec0

I thought the topic was over and done with I guess not  :Slap: 

Abuse of the arts': ANC bristles at new Zuma painting

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## Dave A

How to get famous (or infamous)  :Stick Out Tongue: 
Only a matter of time before someone else jumped on the bandwagon.

Personally, I believe this latest one is more along the lines of portrait with gratuitous exposure and as a result far less defendable. 
At least The Spear was easily defendable as artistic impressionism, being purely a symbolic representation of persona.

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## tec0

Ok this may sound a bit harsh but all I see is easy money I am not an artist but if I was a struggling artist, I might be tempted to draw a taboo spectacle in hope of a fast and profitable sale 

Well it is creating jobs so who is complaining?  :Whistling:

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## Citizen X

> Ok this may sound a bit harsh but all I see is easy money… I am not an artist but if I was a struggling artist, I might be tempted to draw a taboo spectacle in hope of a fast and profitable sale… 
> 
> Well it is creating jobs so who is complaining?


Ya/Nee, this artist concept seems to be a goldmine! It must be a sitting president though and depicted in that way. So if you really want attention then that's the way to go!

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## Blurock

Is this not a sign of the times? Do people still have respect for JZ? :Confused:

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## Dave A

> Do people still have respect for JZ?


I'm not even sure it was respect for his character that got JZ elected as ANC president at Polokwane. I got the feeling it was more a rejection of Thabo Mbeki and what he'd got up to as President.

Elect a figure mired in controversy as your leader and you can expect...

Mind you - there's very few politicians that manage to avoid the occassional slagging.

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## Citizen X

Something is missing here,Conspicuous by its absence:

" DON'T BUY CITY PRESS, DON'T BUY, DON'T BUY CITY PRESS DON'T BUY" AND
Why were the police not dealing with those marchers on the Goodman gallery as they dealt with Marikane??????

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