# Regulatory Compliance Category > General Regulatory Compliance Forum >  New Trading As name for "old" CC

## ingebean

Hi there

I want to change the "trading as" name that I originally gave my CC when it was registered *just* before the new companies act came into effect.

I believe that all new "trading as" names now need to be registered? Do I now have to register the new name? It's all so confusing!
I am thinking of having the new name trademarked, but I was hoping I could get away with something cheaper in the mean time. Is it true that you have to pay for every category that your goods  / services may fall under? This can be very expensive?

Also, if I want to "reserve" the name now, and create a logo  / branding at a later stage is this possible? Will I be able to use the TM symbol (once it's approved etc) on any font I want to?

Any advice will be MUCH appreciated!

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## ingebean

Maybe I was not clear enough: Say for example my CC's registered name is "green cc" and my trading as name was Green CC t/a "Blue" but I now want to change the t/a from 'Blue" to "Pink" ...

Thanks a stackeroo

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## BusFact

There is a host of confusion about trading names at the moment. The Consumer Protection Act requires that trading names be registered with the CIPC, however they simply don't seem to be geared for it at the moment. Once they are functioning, the idea is that you will need to renew your registered trading name every 2 years. This will give you some protection for your name and enable consumers to know who they are dealing with.

I recently heard that this requirement had been postponed for now (sorry, can't remember the source) so the status quo of trading under whatever name you want continues - until someone with a vested interest objects.

Can't help on the Trademark side of things.

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ingebean (08-Sep-11)

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## Dave A

The whole "registering of trading name" requirement is only for new enterprises launched since 1st April 2011 anyway. Existing enterprises weren't affected really - but I expect if you change the trading name, you'll be expected to register.

I suspect the whole reason for the requirement in the CPA was to stop enterprises just (not so) randomly changing their trading names as one of the moe obvious reasons some businesses do this is to lose the bad reputation problems they had accumulated under their old trading name.

On CIPC - someone at the top deserves to be sacked over that fiasco.

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ingebean (08-Sep-11)

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## ingebean

> The whole "registering of trading name" requirement is only for new enterprises launched since 1st April 2011 anyway. Existing enterprises weren't affected really - but I expect if you change the trading name, you'll be expected to register.


Thanks BusFact and Dave. My CC was registered in the end of April, but it's still a CC.. obviously because of the backlog it took longer than it should have.

I just find it SO hard to find out what the requirements are to do things properly.. It's as though doing the right thing is almost impossible when there are no (that I know of) places new business owners can go to and get some (good legal) advice! I'm just SO glad I found this forum..

Yesterday I enquired with a company that I am thinking of using to assist me to register the trademark and their reply when I told them the above was: 

" According to our knowledge a "trading as" name cannot be registered with CIPC.
If you would like to use a "trading as" name we suggest that you use a name that has been registered as a trade mark.
We have never had experience of registering a "trading as" name, therefore, you are welcome to obtain the advice of an attorney or auditor who will be able to provide you with legal advice. "

I actually still don't know what I should do!  

 :Frown:

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## BusFact

The CIPC website has a small section at the end of their page on registering company names where it says that trading names must now be registered. However the bright spark that put that there doesn't tell you how to do it.

I haven't heard of anyone registering a trading name yet and so I'm pretty sure there is not yet a process in place in which to do so. My non professional advice to you is to simply act as before and use the "trading as" name that you want. When CIPC eventually sort themselves out, you can go through the registration process.

The trademark route will give more protection for your name, but I don't know what they cost. You need to decide if that extra cost is really worth it.

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ingebean (09-Sep-11)

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## Dave A

The options are to register a _trademark_ or register a _defensive name_ (which involves ongoing renewals to prove you're actually using it if I remember correctly).

Checks quickly... 

Aah yes. Post six in this two different trading names thread seems relevant.

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ingebean (09-Sep-11)

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## BusFact

> The options are to register a _trademark_ or register a _defensive name_ (which involves ongoing renewals to prove you're actually using it if I remember correctly).
> 
> Checks quickly... 
> 
> Aah yes. Post six in this two different trading names thread seems relevant.


The only problem with that is I can't figure out how to register a "defensive name" on CIPC.

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ingebean (13-Sep-11)

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## Dave A

Top menu - Enterprises > Companies

Then

Right hand menu - Name Reservations

Or this link might take you straight to it http://www.cipc.co.za/Companies_NameReserve.aspx

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ingebean (13-Sep-11)

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## BusFact

Thats the page where I found the bit about them saying you have to register a trading name but they don't say how. As far as I can see that page allows you to reserve your name for when you are in the process of registering a company. Its valid for 6 months and can then be renewed for a further 60 days. From which I assume you would then need to extend your name reservation every 2 months. 

Doesn't sound right. I'm sure the defensive name or trading name registration follows another unknown and secret process.

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ingebean (13-Sep-11)

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## mbsmit

Hi there,

Used this company a while back. Perhaps they can advise you?:

www.register-a-business.co.za

Regards,
Mr. Smit

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ingebean (24-Oct-11)

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## iessa

Hi, 

What is the quickest way to register a company? I have applied for reservation of a name. Just concerned about posting my documents to CIPC and getting them lost in the mail or the department without any trace of them. Are there companies or agents that will walk the documents in?

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## Mike C

> you have to register a trading name


Does anyone have any update on this matter?  I have a customer whose VAT certificate is made out in a certain name, but they say that they are "Trading As" another name.  As VAT is going to be involved here we are wanting to do the correct thing.  If SARS queries the Invoice and the names do not match up (but the VAT Number does) is it going to be a problem?

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## Dave A

If the company (XYZ) is registered for VAT, and the tax invoice has "XYZ trading as ABC", surely that would fly.

A little layout manipulation to try to reduce client confusion could be:

XYZ Ltd t/a
*ABC Trading*
I've also noticed some tax invoices I receive where the header just has the trading name, but the t/a relationship is disclosed elsewhere - near the banking details for EFT payments, for example.

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## Blurock

> Hi, 
> 
> What is the quickest way to register a company? I have applied for reservation of a name. Just concerned about posting my documents to CIPC and getting them lost in the mail or the department without any trace of them. Are there companies or agents that will walk the documents in?


Try the Shelf Company Warehouse in Musgrave Centre or online www.pty-online.co.za 

durban@pty-online.co.za 

I was very happy with their service. Quick turnaround and very reasonable fees.  :Cool:

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## Mike C

HI Dave,

That would be ok if they were suppliers, but they are customers.  When we charged them VAT it was only then that they sent through a VAT103 (saying Zero Rated) which was in a different name and address, but using the same VAT number.

Do you think that it is ok to just change OUR invoice to the new name with a "trading as" in brackets after it ... or is there fraud afoot here?

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## Dave A

> or is there fraud afoot here?


Are you still raising VAT on your invoice?

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## Mike C

No - if we change the name on our Invoice we will have to do credit notes and re-issue as Zero-rated.

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## Dave A

That does make it a rather significant issue - and as you suggest, potentially open the door to fraud.

As chance would have it, I was reading up on this SARS page on Tax Clearance Certificates. This section at the bottom seems relevant to the discussion at hand:




> *What name will be on the certificate?*
> 
> The “Trading Name” will not be reflected on the Tax Clearance Certificate - only the legal names that are on SARS’s records will be reflected. What this means is, the legal names in SARS’s records per tax reference number will pre-populated next to each reference number reflected on the Tax Clearance Certificate. 
> 
> If you don’t agree with the names pre-populated, you will have to update your registered particulars at a SARS branch with relevant supporting documents, e.g.  Company registration documents as provided by the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission (CIPC).
> 
> We’ve made this change in our efforts to guard against fraud and the misuse of the Tax Clearance Certificate.


Perhaps the answer is to put the problem back in the client's court - prove the connection or pay the VAT.

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Mike C (05-Feb-14)

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

> HI Dave,
> 
> That would be ok if they were suppliers, but they are customers.  When we charged them VAT it was only then that they sent through a VAT103 (saying Zero Rated) which was in a different name and address, but using the same VAT number.
> 
> Do you think that it is ok to just change OUR invoice to the new name with a "trading as" in brackets after it ... or is there fraud afoot here?


This is somewhat strange. Vendors are not zero rated, products are....

The VAT 103 is a registration certificate. In other words the registered party is obliged to charge VAT and can claim input credits against that charged. It does not mention zero rating at all. Regardless anyway of what his 103 says, you as a vendor are obliged to charge VAT.

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## Mike C

> The VAT 103 is a registration certificate. In other words the registered party is obliged to charge VAT and can claim input credits against that charged. It does not mention zero rating at all. Regardless anyway of what his 103 says, you as a vendor are obliged to charge VAT.


Hi Clive - I don't agree with you on this as many of our customers have section 7 of the VAT103 certificate stating "Goods used for agricultural, pastoral or other farming purposes may be supplied to you at the zero rate in terms of the provisions of Section 11(1)(G) of the act."

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Hi Mike, I forgot about about farming, but it is still limited to type of goods.

In any event are you in that line - supplying to farmers and so on?

To add to Dave's post, I have seen tax clearance certificates very recently where SARS have swapped the registered name and the trading name, as well as some where the trading name is hopelessly incorrect. 

However, if you state the vat reg number of the customer on the invoice, as required, it takes precedence over the name and address, so you should be in the clear.

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Mike C (06-Feb-14)

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## Mike C

Thanks Clive.  Yep ... that's our line.  Glad to hear that the VAT reg number will take precedence.   :Smile:

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

The registered name is the official entity.
In fact, pursuant to the new companies act, one can no longer just use the trading as name, you must depict the registered name and trading as .....
Any limited liability may be lost if only the trading name is used.

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Mike C (06-Feb-14)

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