# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  UK Electrician... just don't know what else to do...

## skatingsparks

I have been on here a few times asking bits and pieces about getting wireman's licence(installation electrician) sorted and this is basically my last....  don't know what you call it but anyway...

So I am a UK trained electrician, 10+ years.  I am here in SA on the Skills Quota Visa(girlfriend is South African) and after much messing around got my UK qualifications assessed by SAQA.  When I say messing around I mean hours on the phone, dozens of emails, dozens of letters and a 4 month trip back to the UK for more qualifications and then sitting in there office 3 day straight to make sure they have everything they need.  So SAQA say my qualifications equate to an NQF 4, which is bit rubbish because I have been told you can get to an NQF 4 in about 1 year and 3 months(correct me if I'm wrong) if you do all levels back to back and would take at least 3 years to get the papers I have(if you really went for it).

So I hassel the ECA, trying to find out what I need to do to get my wireman's and have been doing so for over a year.  I did the installation rules exam, passed(friking hard but passed).  Did the COC course, not rocket science.    

All these courses(ones in the UK and here) and the trip back to the UK have basically wiped out my savings.  Saved for hard to come here, and i mean F^%$Â£"g hard for a really long time just to be dicked around.  I haven't worked here since last November and have spent the time since trying to get my wireman's.

I have been signing of my own work in the UK for quite a few years and its not as if I'm fresh out of college.  I'm not saying I know everything about electricity, no one does, but I'm sure I know enough to work out anything I come up against.

I went to the ECA today and now(after all the times I have been up there) tell me I have to do another one of there course.  An assessment of foreign qualifications, costing 2800 rand.  Why they didn't tell me to do that course a year ago I don't know.  Now I have to wait until Feburary 8th to do that and even then after that I have to do units of credit for testing of a single phase and 3 phase testing.  I don't think they realize the impact of there advise has been on my life.  If I need to do something, tell me and I'll get it sorted.  I was told I needed and equivalent of an NQF 4 before they can do anything, I go back to teh UK get more qualifications, and it still isn't enough 

I can't start my own business, visa restrictions.  Haven't done the SA trade test and don't intend to spend the 11 grand charged for the preparation to do it either.  I'm due to do it some time between now and September 2010 according to the useless people at Olifontain, but who knows

If anyone has any ideas what I can do as after a year of messing around with this I'm pretty much broke.  I have spent a fortune trying to sort this out, not to mention the lost the wages would usually get if i had just stayed working in the UK.(don't care if you have the weather and the so called SA lifestyle ain't so great to be honest, not a patch on what life was like in the UK, you just sit and wait for things to be sorted here, great).

I have wasted a year of my life on this

Open to suggestions and no the girlfriend won't go back to the UK, her families here. 

CV if you know anyone who would be interested

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=9...8b19ba0e1b98eb

Out of ideas and enthusiasm.... :Frown:

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## skatingsparks

and if any South African person ever mentions skills shortage to me...... HELLLLOOOO!!!!  Why would anyone with a skill come here, Australia and NZ welcome you with open arms as does the UK.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## Dave A

> Open to suggestions and no the girlfriend won't go back to the UK, her families here.


She must be absolutely spectacular - you've put yourself through so much.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## Jacques#1

Hi

The new unit standards NQF 4 has recently been implemented (2 or 3 years or so).  I know as I waited to long to get my wiremans, and after I finally took the time to apply, they said I needed the subjects.  So, reluctantly I did it, and went to trhe DOL.

When I wrote my electrical trade it was the first year of the learnership system (different to the apprenticeship system).  So Department of Labour did not recognise my qualification.  I then got the head of SAQA, ECETA, CHIETA and petroleum SETA in a room with the DOL.  After a long discussion and explaining to them that the system I started on was still the apprenticeship system (in fact, with not knowing what was going on on the SETA's part I took 3 years to qualify, and wrote 1st, 2nd and 3rd year trade test, with the final trade test being 7 jobs instead of the usual 5), only with a different name, they agreed that I am a qualified electrician on the old system.  I eventually got my wiremans licence.  This took around 2 years to get.

I would suggest that you phone the DOL and ask them exactly what you need.  Once they say you need a,b,c (usually in writing), then go do that only and get back to them.

You would most probably need to get your foreign qualifications approved by SAQA (theory), and practical ESETA.  Then you would need the 2 unit standards (no getting around that one).

Some usefull tel no? 

ESETA 011 689 5300
SAQA  012 431 5000
Department of Labour 012 309 4000 also DOL/Lesedi Mathinya 012 309 4378

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## skatingsparks

> She must be absolutely spectacular - you've put yourself through so much.


yep, she is.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## MichaelB

> and if any South African person ever mentions skills shortage to me...... HELLLLOOOO!!!!  Why would anyone with a skill come here, Australia and NZ welcome you with open arms as does the UK.


So...what are you doing here? :Smile:   I guess we should NEVER underestimate the power of a woman!

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## skatingsparks

Thanks for the info Jaques.  I'll give the DOL a call again.  I had my Qualification assessed by SAQA and it came back as an NQF 4.  When I originally called the department of labour i put it to them that as SAQA recognize my UK City and Guild 2391 Testing and inspecting then would that not be acceptable to cover the unit standards, the testing of a 3 phase installations, because the City and guilds 2391 more than covers whats in the unit standards.  In the UK you do your electricians course which covers testing as well and if you want to, you can do the additional city and guilds 2391.  The South African rules are taken from the UK regs book anyway.  Same electrical system, same voltage, same frequency, same earthing systems.  
I was told by the ECA that I don't need to do a trade test if I have an NQF 4, which is why I went back to the UK to get more qualifications.  SAQA told me what I needed to get an NQF4 evaluation and that is what I went and got back in London.  The reason I went to get it in London because it was quicker to fly back to the UK  do more qualifications(which are more recognized world over compared to SA's, no offence).  I couldn't get information on where to do the NQF4 here and I couldn't wait until September 2010 to do the trade test(I went to Olifontain directly, first available date, some time in 2010).  

All jobs seem obsessed with the trade test.  Now, again no offence, all the guys who I worked with at the airport who had there trade test could draw a lovely picture of a star delta starter but didn't have a frikin clue how it worked.  They admitted to memorizing which pins you link out on the trade test board and hurray the motor runs.  When I inquired about doing the trade preparation I was quoted about 11000 rand.  After 12 years of doing this I am not really willing to pay that kind of money to do little jobs in cubicle which people usually pay me to do.

The testing thing is a problem because I haven't been able to get work since the airport job was completed and I haven't been able to make up a portfolio of tests and inspections for the unit standards.  I have been testing and inspecting for 10 years+ and used to work a Megger (worlds leading test instrument manufacturer).  I supervised and worked on the clean air floor where the meters are made, supervised and and worked on the rewiring of the calibration area, and we also rewired there store room over a period of 2 and half years and tested the whole lot myself.  I feel I am a competent tester.

All these problems have put so much stress on my relationship with my girlfriend who I went through all this for that we are falling apart because its all I do.  Try and sort this out.  Since we have been here we haven't been able to enjoy SA because of worries about money, spending my savings whilst trying resolve this.

It seems more important here to tick the correct boxes rather than have people who have a good idea what there doing, doing a job.

I just hope i can pull her back and resolve all this.  All this effort for nothing would be a bitter pill to swallow

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## Jacques#1

I agree with you that they are extremely concerned about ticking the right boxes, believe me I did all the necessary fighting to get to the point where I am now.  

The two subjects you need is: 

Test and Inspect 3 Phase Electrical Installation (Unit Standard No. 113894) *NQF Level 4* 

Complete Certificate of Compliance for 3 Phase Electrical Installation  (Unit Standard no. 13683) * NQF Level 5*

I also did my full qualification with three phase installation exams etc, but this standards is new and they are adiment (spelling) that it shall be done  :Smile: .  You also do get the unfortunate rotten apples...guys who don't know anything about their trades, and in a good way the DOL is trying to ensure that these guys don't get to sign off a house and put peoples lives in danger, and yes, I really do understand and agree that its rubbish that they force good guys to struggle to get one step ahead.....

Try these guys...they are in the Cape though, I went down there to complete my Ustds, around R6000.  They do the practical on site (simulated).

Western Cape Approved Electrical Inspection Authority
1 Robert Rd
Kraaifontein
7570

Tel; 021 9873010
Fax; 021 9873083
Email: training@wcaeia.co.za

Have you tried also:

ECA(SA) Highveld Region
Tel: 011 392 0000
Fax: 086 660 3814
Website: www.ecasa.co.za

(electrical contractors association...they do full training on site, dont know about their practical though?  You would have to join them once you do get your accreditation as they register you with the ECB - electrical contractors board, and they act on behalve of the DOL)

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BBBEE_CompSpec (21-Nov-09)

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## Dave A

> You would have to join them once you do get your accreditation as they register you with the ECB - electrical contractors board, and they act on behalve of the DOL)


Now there's an interesting statement. Is that really your understanding of the position of the ECA?

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## Jacques#1

> Now there's an interesting statement. Is that really your understanding of the position of the ECA?


Not exactly....I went to their road show the other day, and SABS, ECA and ECB had slots in the show.  According to memory  :Confused: : The ECB was appointed by the government i.e minister to do the administration part of registering an electrical tester etc.  Since the ECB is merely a group of people and not a orginisation/business (lack of a better word), the ECA was appointed as one of the orginisations where you can register as an accredited person.... electrical tester in this regard.  This excludes the registering of electrical contractors, union functions, training intitute/programmes, developing icw SABS new standards etc.  Am I making sense? :Confused:

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## skatingsparks

Hi Jaques, that place in Cape town you mention.  You say you can do the practical there. What I have asked by the ECA to do is a little portfolio with some pictures of faults and a little diagram explaining why its not to the sans regs and put soem test results in there for good measure.  Now the obvious problem is that to do that I need a job, haven't had much joy in that department yet (my CV is spread far and wide accross SA, not one response) so I can't put together a nice little portfolio.(besides I don't want to do a load of work making a portfolio just for it to be put on the bloody great pile that they have at the ECA).  When you say you can do practical does that mean you can go in there do whats needed and come out with the unit standards, because thats all I really want to do.  Go in, pay, be assessed, walk out with unit standards, jods a good'n.  I'm going down to cape town next week, I'm going to call in and see what they say.
Cheers
Skatingsparks

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## Jacques#1

> Hi Jaques, that place in Cape town you mention.  You say you can do the practical there. What I have asked by the ECA to do is a little portfolio with some pictures of faults and a little diagram explaining why its not to the sans regs and put soem test results in there for good measure.  Now the obvious problem is that to do that I need a job, haven't had much joy in that department yet (my CV is spread far and wide accross SA, not one response) so I can't put together a nice little portfolio.(besides I don't want to do a load of work making a portfolio just for it to be put on the bloody great pile that they have at the ECA).  When you say you can do practical does that mean you can go in there do whats needed and come out with the unit standards, because thats all I really want to do.  Go in, pay, be assessed, walk out with unit standards, jods a good'n.  I'm going down to cape town next week, I'm going to call in and see what they say.
> Cheers
> Skatingsparks


This is exactly what they do.  You walk in there with all your information, they go through some information on SANS10142, they take you to their panels (same as training centre panels with 3 phase and 1phase), they show you around, and you start practicing to test on these panels with their help.  By the end of the week (Thursday/Friday) you test a 3 phase and 1phase installation by yourself, and if you pass, you pass.  Monday the following week they send the information to DOL for accreditation.  This process takes a few weeks.  

Phone them first, ask them what you need to bring with (they only do the course with a few people in attendace so you need to book).  These guys are inspectors, and the time I were there some of them had master wiremans with more than 10 years experience......point is, they know the business and teach you learn a lot if you ask the questions.  They supplied me with all the tools.  The whole course is a week, from around 8/9am to 2/3 pm per day.  

A place to stay about 5 minutes away.....Vredekloof country Lodge.  27 Aristea Street, Vredekloof Heights, Brackenfell   Tel +27 (21) 982 6505   Fax +27 (21) 982 2074. Bit expensive compared to a formula one hotel, but it works.

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Dave A (23-Nov-09)

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## Liz D

Hi It is unaceptable that you have been given the run around by ill advised individuals. You can contact Nick at P and T Technology on 011 827 4113/6 and he will be able to help you. He works with the , ESETA, CHIETA,DOL, is chairman of the Electrical Inspection authority and will give you honest advice and steer you in the right direction. He runs a Electrical training
centre which is also an accredited trade test centre. It is not about money with him but about doing things right.




> I have been on here a few times asking bits and pieces about getting wireman's licence(installation electrician) sorted and this is basically my last....  don't know what you call it but anyway...
> 
> So I am a UK trained electrician, 10+ years.  I am here in SA on the Skills Quota Visa(girlfriend is South African) and after much messing around got my UK qualifications assessed by SAQA.  When I say messing around I mean hours on the phone, dozens of emails, dozens of letters and a 4 month trip back to the UK for more qualifications and then sitting in there office 3 day straight to make sure they have everything they need.  So SAQA say my qualifications equate to an NQF 4, which is bit rubbish because I have been told you can get to an NQF 4 in about 1 year and 3 months(correct me if I'm wrong) if you do all levels back to back and would take at least 3 years to get the papers I have(if you really went for it).
> 
> So I hassel the ECA, trying to find out what I need to do to get my wireman's and have been doing so for over a year.  I did the installation rules exam, passed(friking hard but passed).  Did the COC course, not rocket science.    
> 
> All these courses(ones in the UK and here) and the trip back to the UK have basically wiped out my savings.  Saved for hard to come here, and i mean F^%$Â£"g hard for a really long time just to be dicked around.  I haven't worked here since last November and have spent the time since trying to get my wireman's.
> 
> I have been signing of my own work in the UK for quite a few years and its not as if I'm fresh out of college.  I'm not saying I know everything about electricity, no one does, but I'm sure I know enough to work out anything I come up against.
> ...

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Dave A (24-Nov-09)

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## skatingsparks

Hi there Jaques
Went to see those people you recommended and it sounds very promising.  They seem very sure of what I need to do, none of the usual d^%$ing around and come back in a while or , just wait.  It was just right, you need this, this and this and this is when you can do it and this is how much it will cost.  

Which is exactly all I have wanted all along.  

Its not cheap like you say but I would rather fly back down from Jo'burg, hire a car, pay for a hotel and the course just to get it done because its better than being messed around anymore and waiting.  As the old expression goes "time is money".  Trying to sort out flights for the course before Christmas.

If anyone can think of anything that the DOL could possible ask for then please let me know before I fork out another large wedge of cash.  

I have the NQF 4 (UK Certs assassed by SAQA came back as NQF 4), have installation rules papers 1 and 2 and will hopefully soon be paying a small fortune to come back to cape town to sort out the "testing and inspection of a 3 phase installation" unit standards as previously mentioned.

I can do no more.

By the, way many thanks to Jaques.  Hopefully I'm on the right path now

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## Jacques#1

> Hi there Jaques
> Went to see those people you recommended and it sounds very promising.  They seem very sure of what I need to do, none of the usual d^%$ing around and come back in a while or , just wait.  It was just right, you need this, this and this and this is when you can do it and this is how much it will cost.  
> 
> Which is exactly all I have wanted all along.  
> 
> Its not cheap like you say but I would rather fly back down from Jo'burg, hire a car, pay for a hotel and the course just to get it done because its better than being messed around anymore and waiting.  As the old expression goes "time is money".  Trying to sort out flights for the course before Christmas.
> 
> If anyone can think of anything that the DOL could possible ask for then please let me know before I fork out another large wedge of cash.  
> 
> ...


Its a pleasure, I can only tell you what I know from my experience.  Attached is a link to the DOL registered person brochure, on the last page is the foreign qualifications bit, which may help you.  This is the DOL's form, so as long as you meet these requirements they can't argue.  :Confused: 

http://www.uif.gov.za/downloads/docu...%20persons.doc

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Dave A (27-Nov-09)

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## skatingsparks

One last question...

Just read through the paper work on that course.   I need to do "valuation of previously coached or self inspection and test results collected by you"

I don't have any, did weeks of testing when I was working at the airport, just never kept any of it.  Didn't think I would need it again.  I worked with an installation electrician and once he saw that I knew what I was doing he let me get on with it he, checked the results and that was it.  Never kept copies of any of teh COC's or any of the test results.

Signed of 100's of jobs in the UK and have a few bits an piece on that.

Do you think I will need them?? did you have to take any with you when you did the course?

I'll phone them Monday but today, I'm making plans, booking flight, hotels, cars etc....

Thanks

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## Jacques#1

> One last question...
> 
> Just read through the paper work on that course.   I need to do "valuation of previously coached or self inspection and test results collected by you"


As far as I know (and I may be wrong on this one, seeing as you're qualifications is a little different than mine):

The fact that you are demonstrating practically your knowledge on the course satisfies the requirement of the unit standard to have eg. 2 practical examples.  They will definitely keep the COC's you complete on the course as your evidence.  I had no practical experience as a) at the time this was not my core business, and b) I asked other guys if I could join them on site, but they were reluctant as they have to sign you off etc.  So the short answer, I think you're fine?

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## darkblueltd

Hi Skatingsparks,

I myself did my qualification in the UK, ive been here for 10 years and im moving back to SA at the end of the year.

I currently hold. 
C&G 2330 levels 2 & 3
C&G 2356 NVQ level 3
C&G 2391 Testing and Inspection
17th Edition

Did you eventually get your qualification transfered?
If so, what did you eventually need to do and whats the best way to do this?

Seemed like you had quite a nightmare getting things sorted, man I hope I dont struggle as much as you did!

look forward to hearing from you.

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## skatingsparks

Hi dark blue.

Yep I got it sorted eventually.  Right, to save you a year of life messing around this is the way I went.
Take all your papers to SAQA, emphasize the NVQ 3, thats what equates to NQF  4.  If you have NQF 4 you don't need a trade test and after working 10 years you probably don't need to anyways.  Trade tests here seem pointless, no offence, but I haven't met many people who have a trade test who I would say that they are electricians.

In the mean time your going to have to do your wiring regs course here papers 1 and 2.  I went to the ECA, they run the course over weekends over 8 weeks.  The exam is insanely hard.  Seriously, even if you know your stuff they put things in there that you will never have come across or ever likely to come across.  If your coming to Joburg, speak to Chris Koen at the ECA, he's a good guy.  Its hard, you will have to study. Its not like the 17th edition exam, where you just need to know how to use a refernce book, here you going to need to practically memorise the book(s).  Seriously HARD!  130 people took they exam the day I did and 2 passed.

You also need to do the unit standards of testing a three phase commercial industrial installation and the unit standards for completing a Certificate of compliance.  Do yourself a favor.  Phone the the WCAEIA in cape town.  Find out when they are running the course and pay.  (http://www.wcaeia.co.za/)
I got messed around a lot trying to get these unit standards.  Lots of places told me I need to be doing tests and inspections on different installations and compiling a little portfolio.  If you got the City and Guilds testing and inspecting you will laugh at how simple this one is. You got to have the bit of paper though, because TIA.  If you don't want to be messed around just get to Cape Town, Pay your money, do the course and its done.  They don't mess you around at the WCAEIA.  

Once you have your SAQA assessment(the part requiring patience, especially if they loose your papers, twice) , your wiring regs papers 1 and 2 (the hard part, study and study hard) and your unit standard for testing a 3 phase installation and completing a COC(er.. nice trip to cape town) then you just apply to the Department Of Labor.  All the links are on this forum somewhere.  If you can't find them let me know.  Takes 8b week sonce all that is at teh DOL

Hope it helps.  Contact me if you need anything.

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darkblueltd (21-May-10)

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## skatingsparks

oh, bring a tester with you, the fluke 1653B is around 25000 rand over here, I bought mine over from the UK and it cost less than half that, although they charged me Zuma Added Tax when I shipped it over.  Still cheaper though.

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darkblueltd (21-May-10)

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## darkblueltd

Thanks man. Really appreciate the help.
Whats the money like? You Contracting now or perm?

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## murdock

how much for a 1653b in the uk?

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## skatingsparks

No worries darkblue.  Just started my own company, pay working for other people not great.  Its starting slowly as with all new companies but its picking up.  On the domestic front, I just can't compete with the prices the bakkie brigade are quoting on domestic work, small jobs etc.  They come in, make it work, then go sit back outside the Builders Warehouse, even though they are not registered electricians and are not supposed to be doing electrical work. Like I said, can't compete with that.  quoting on commercial works seems more promising.

Murdock, fluke1653b was Â£635 or about 7000 rand depending on the exchange rate.  Paid Fedex another Â£90 (insured for up to Â£500) to send it and got screwed on Zuma Added Tax when it arrived in SA, which was about another R1100.  The customs people classed it as high value item when it was sent over so ZAT was added.  I don't know if you can find it cheaper than 25000 rand here.  Fantastic tester though worth 9000 rand easy, worth 25000 no I don't think so.

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## Jacques#1

If you speak to fluke eu, they say you cannot buy the fluke in another country except SA since fluke SA (comtest) has all the rights in SA.  I shopped around and found guys who were willing to sell me the fluke over the net  :Big Grin: .  They just need the bucks!!  Comtest did however mention that they will not back me up if it breaks.......it is still selling in SA for R32k excluding VAT, so I'll still send it back to the uk, have it serviced, and it will still be a bargain!!  Besides, I am certain you can have it serviced at a place like RS components, it might not be cheap, but they will help you.

Lets discuss this, why is it so expensive here??????  Imagine you buy the thermal imager in the uk instead of here, you'll save about R100k???????  The guys in SA is really ripping us off!!  And, I believe that the shouldn't have asked you import duty, since the meter has a memory function, and a cpu, it is classed as a (can't remember the right word...but) computer/tester.....no import duties.  The guys probably didn't know better and stuffed up the waybill, or the customs guys just did not have a clue...

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## skatingsparks

Your right Jaques, shouldn't have had to pay import tax but when the tester was sent from the UK it was sent as a "electrical installation tester" and it was then classified as an "electrical appliance" which they can apparently make you pay ZAT on, not as tool of the trade which should be ZAT free.  When it arrived i was contacted by Fedex and they said i either pay or it will take time to reclassify it and there is one thing i have learnt about this country is don't do anything outside the norm, don't rock the boat, especially when it comes to paper work. like you said "The guys probably didn't know better and stuffed up the waybill, or the customs guys just did not have a clue..." I have sent stuff through normal post to and from the UK and it hardly ever makes it so rather than run the risk of loosing it or it getting held up for weeks I just paid.  Besides if/when i get VAT/ZAT regestered I'll be able to claim it back , right? 

If Comtest won't back you up, so what.  Why would I buy from them when there products are 3 times the price so even if my fluke(high quality superbly built tough as nails tester probably last years anyways) breaks it'll still be cheaper to buy a new one from the UK.  I'll just get RS to calibrate it once a year, sorted.  Just pricing them selves out the market.  Probably one of the reasons why over half the COC's I see have made up results on them, because proper test gear is so insanely expensive here.  Even if the numbers are made up there is no one to chase those who make up the COC's. 
You can't justify a 30000 rand price tag on a meter because you'll never make that money back all the time there are people just making the numbers up and charging next to nothing for the COC.  You just can't compete.

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## murdock

i purchased over R150 000.00 worth of fluke equipment a couple of years ago...i could have gone to america purchased the equipment had a nice holiday in florida and come home with money in my pocket...but at the time i thought buying all that equipment better to get the backup service and warrenty...no comment. 

lets not even talk about instrument and software training...i still just read the manuals and figue things out myself...it also doesnt help the supply company is in JHB.

i am considering flying to the uk visiting family... purchasing the 1653b and flying home it will be cheaper than buying it here.

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## bret owen beets

OK my name is Bret i saw the sh%$ you have gone through . no wories i know how you feel . im trying to get organised for N.Z .Something you dont want to hear . This N.Q.F 1,2,3,4, is worth f all when i did my trade test ther where guys with N.Q.F 4 that had to re-do there trade test cause from end of this year its worth toilet paper. your trade test has to be a red seal. All you need to do to get started is get hold of a place where i did my trade test . Only thing its in joburg the trsde test is two days and it takes a week or two and your in.you will be old and grey if u go with olifonts. once youve done that they can also do a weeks course with them and get u single phase wiremans (singlephase tester) u can b a registered contractor. no one can touch u. if u want call me theres a whole lot of info and correct no.s u can call. p.s what the hell u battling to get in and im battling to get the hell out of here before the lights go out

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## Sparks

I think I did leave a comment before. Your problem rings a bell. I have however this last suggestion. Take a look at http://www.ecbsa.co.za/ there is a document saying what papers you need and another which you need to complete. After waiting so long I hope you are successful this time. In my case the testing institution did all the paperwork and I recieved my accreditation certificate through the post.

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## skatingsparks

So in 2013 I'm still here. The amount of people who have contacted me regarding getting there license sorted out over here has been surprising.  I think all the other post say what you need to do to get your license.  The reason I come back onto this thread is to say, not in a negative way but in a save your self the time kind of way.  

Things to consider.

If you quote to do a C.O.C. on a house which is up for sale to you will be under cut.  No, people do not want to pay a proper electrician to do a full a proper test on there property, they want to pay as little as possible to get that yellow piece of paper.  I personally, with all my transport fees, registrations fees, accountancy fees, VAT, tax, my assistants wages, medical aid etc. can not compete with someone who will come in and do it for R600 and sign an installation off without even looking at it which I will never do. 

Also, generally the people who you quote against for any job often undercut you.  This is business, I get that.  An example would be that I quoted on running 3 aircon supplies.  I quoted on 4mm flat twin and earth cable, because of the length of the run, used CBI breakers to match the customers existing as they requested and installing double pole isolators at the aircon points.  I came in low on my quote because I wanted to get my foot in the door and the possibility of further work.  The company who got the job, ran the circuits in 2.5mm flat, fed 2 of the aircons of one circuit and used the (much cheaper) Lear (32Amp !!!!) circuit breakers and didn't bother with double pole isolators.  This is what your up against.


There is no one to do anything about those who don't do things to the book here.  

Another crazy thing is that running costs are higher here for me here.  I run my business from home (small flat) but because of the cost of accountancy fees(they also sort out everything with SARS for me because otherwise I would spend hoooooooours talking to idiots there), transport, fuel and insurance my charges need to be HIGHER than what I needed to charge when I was working in London!?  Also because there are standards in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Egypt(the other paces I have worked) there is more of an even playing field when it comes to quoting a job.

I'm coming up to my 5th year here an I will be able to go for residency here.  The day it come through I'm going to go back to the UK for a while and get some "normal work" for a while.

If your thinking "why don't you just go home then if you don't like it".  Well I come to far in, I sold up lock, stock and barrel when I moved here and invested everything when I first got here - time, money, energy, heart and soul to try and get things to work here.  All my eggs in one basket.  

Well I'm old enough to realise time flys, I spent all my money setting myself up here, I just don't have the energy to relocate it all again, heart was broken and I think I offered my soul as bribe to a cop who pulled me over and tried to bribe me for some reason or another.  

If your coming here from abroad and it works out you'll probably have a great life.  If it goes the other way you'll be where I am and worried about your future.   
If I could do it all again, I wouldn't have come here.  I doesn't feel like there will be any amount of good that will make it worth all the shit I had to go through to be where I am now which is very much worse of on the day I arrived.

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AndyD (06-May-13), Dave A (15-Apr-13), ians (07-May-13)

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## Dave A

Certainly food for thought.

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## SparkyScott

Interesting read,I'm back in Scotland been here since the start of the year.

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## AndyD

How's things in Scotland?

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## ians

Don't feel bad. I have been in this industry for toooooo long and haven't had a choice because it pays the bills, trust me like yourself I am over this electrical industry (as I am sure you have picked by my responses) People are not interested in a quality workmanship anymore, or should I rephrase that, they don't want to pay for quality, they want to pay peants and expect to get a master electrician. If they get a handy man to do the job at a third of the price, they are happy but let the house burn down and then they want to sue the handyman for the clothes off his back.

I wish you luck over there and I know from mates who have left for a "better future" aren't coming back anytime soon.


Personally, what I know now, I would never have wasted my time becoming a master electrician, the less you know the less they can nail you for, all that red card stand for in my eyes is a bull eyes for people to hit when they looking for someone to point fingers.

On many occasions I have been cornered with the phrase, "but you should have known better" with all those qualifications, now when people ask I tell them I work for the company and I am just an electrician, beauty about that is they don't expect a COC, and like Apple you don't ask, you don't get.

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## SparkyScott

> How's things in Scotland?


Morning Andy,its going fine even if I don't have a job yet.i had to get upto date with the regs when I came back,a 3 day course with a open book exam on the 3rd day passed with flying colours.i feel a lot more relaxed here and stress free on the roads aswell is a good thing haha.Its coming into summer here and it's weird getting use to it being light till late at night.Im also waiting for my tools to arrive and other things,its been a very long wait.

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## AndyD

One thing I'll always remember about the UK is those summer evenings when it's still daylight at 11.30 at night, it's probably something to do with its proximity to the Arctic circle but it was pleasant  :Smile: . Good luck getting back on your feet and I hope your tools arrive.

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## TanyaH

Hi, my husband qualified in Zimbabwe, has over 20 years working experience as an Electrician. We moved to SA after 10yrs in the UK and SAQA have certified his qualifications as an N4.

He would like to get his SA wiremans (3 phase) but really has not been given a straight answer by anyone. He registered for a 10wk course for units 1 and 2 (Saturdays only) but it really proved to be too much to handle!!!

I have been doing some reading and found something about him applying under Section 28 due to his experience? What would this entail? If it means he still has to write exams, can anyone recommend a course with a good reputation/pass rate in the West Rand?

Really need some advice!!!

Thanks in advance!

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## mikilianis

TanyaH the best way is for your husband do a local trade test I know of a U.K. sparky who resorted to that and after doing the test said that he should of done that in the fist place as after all his running around all he could get was a single phase tester certification

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## ericlowry

My sympathies for,all the uphill. I off to the UK with my papers and screwdriver next week, pale male had enough of this lot.

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## SparkyScott

Where abouts in the UK you moving to ericlowry?Are you qualified in the UK?

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## ericlowry

> Where abouts in the UK you moving to ericlowry?Are you qualified in the UK?


Moving to the north west Lancashire, I was there in April this year and enjoyed it, everything works, you go somewhere and people know what to do. Streets are clean public transport is on time. I can do city and guilds exams to qualify, got the IEE regulation books already. i will take my m.i.e. registration and papers. If I can't work as a electrician I'm willing to do anything. Just getting my stuff together ASAP.

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## ericlowry

I know they charge you an arm and a leg for training, been a member for years, still can't figure out what else they do.

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## SparkyScott

Tell me about it the public transport here is good aswell which is handy for us if we want to go out in Edinburgh.I done my C&G 2382-12 start of the year it was a 3 days course and was easy enough.if I was you I would do C&G 2391 Inspection and Testing a lot of companies look for this now.I just like how everything electrical is so much better made then over there.

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ericlowry (22-Aug-13)

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## ericlowry

Thanks, that clears up a lot, I'm really looking forward to the move.

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