# General Business Category > Technology Forum >  Get Windows 10

## Dave A

I'm currently on Windows 7, and Microsoft is offering me to Get Windows 10.



Good idea? Bad idea?
Any thoughts, anyone?

----------


## Blurock

I am on Windows 8 which is fine, but installing it can be tricky. NEVER buy the 5 device package as it never works on more than one device. Support is poor and the annual subscription no doubt puts it beyond many people who may be tight on a budget. Considering what you may end up paying over 10 years you may just as well buy a Mac or Apple which is also overpriced, but at least it is once off. :Frown:

----------


## IanF

Dave for us we have to check if their are drivers available for our machines and the software will run, then if they are available how mature are they. 
I will stick to W7 until there is a compelling reason to change.
I might try on the laptop though.

----------


## HR Solutions

Blurock you hit the nail on the head

----------


## Xplosiv

Microsoft offering a free upgrade? I'm sceptical, but I did go ahead and reserve my upgrade. 
The 3GB download is going to be a pain, we're capped at 10GB at work and the speed is 2Mbs. Have to ensure there's no loadshedding and leave it to do it's thing overnight.

----------


## Neville Bailey

I've been running the Windows 10 Insider Preview for a few months now, on my MacBook Pro via Parallels. It seems to work fine, although I'm not using it as my main OS, but rather for curiosity value. All my W8 drivers are working, and I have even tested Pastel on it - no problems.

I think W10 will be a winner compared to W8/8.1 - it seems to have taken the best of W7 and W8 and packaged it into quite a slick-looking system.

----------

Dave A (02-Jun-15), Mike C (03-Jun-15)

----------


## AndyD

I'd rather poke my own eye out with a blunt stick than upgrade to any microsoft OS that's not reached at least SP2 at which point there's  a remote glimmer of hope that they've sorted out some of the glitches.

----------

New Perspective studio (13-Nov-19)

----------


## Neville Bailey

> I'd rather poke my own eye out with a blunt stick than upgrade to any microsoft OS that's not reached at least SP2 at which point there's  a remote glimmer of hope that they've sorted out some of the glitches.


Ha ha! That's where I am very different to you Andy!

I regard myself as an "early adopter", and I jump straight in and hope I can stay afloat! 

You should see me with my gadgets and gizmos - I am always tinkering with my Nexus phone and tablet, flashing custom ROMs every other day (and sometimes temporarily bricking them). I have even installed the yet-to-launched Android M Preview on my tablet, but then went back to Lollipop after I got bored with that. 

On my MacBook Pro I have three operating systems running - Yosemite, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 Insider Preview.

I cannot hold myself back from being on the latest cutting-edge technology, glitches and all...

----------


## tec0

Get windows 10 when it is being outmoded at least it will be working by then... 

that said windows 8.1 is running like a dream, never had one crash, never had compatibility problems... Fast and reliable.

----------


## HR Solutions

> that said windows 8.1 is running like a dream, never had one crash, never had compatibility problems... Fast and reliable.


Then you are very lucky, because that is not what the IT guys say about Windows 8

----------


## Mike C

One of our laptops running Windows 8.1 had a window icon on the toolbar this morning announcing a Free Update to Windows 10.  Apparently is it a 3 Gig download, so I am not too sure!  Would it leave all the programs and data on it "untouched" or would it require all these things to be re-installed?

----------


## AndyD

> ....Would it leave all the programs and data on it "untouched" or would it require all these things to be re-installed?


 Yes it shopuld do in theory but in practice I'd prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Back-up everything critical first and make sure you can lay your hands on the original installation disks and their licensing codes etc.

----------


## HR Solutions

lol ........ yep prepare for the worst ....

----------


## tec0

another way to look at win10

----------


## reuphk

I LOVE my MAC  :Zyfingerdance:

----------

HR Solutions (03-Jun-15)

----------


## roarman

I must be honest, my Windows 8 and 8.1 hasn't given me a day of trouble.
The only problem I've seen with windows 8 and 8.1 has been old or incompatible drivers from 3rd party vendors causing the problems with the OS.

I think MS has learnt a bit from Apple IOS, make it easy for your users to upgrade to the latest version to improve the percentage of users using the latest version of the product.

Good luck.

----------


## vieome

Link 

If you have Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 8 Pro with Media Center, or Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center and you install Windows 10, Windows Media Center will be removed.
Watching DVDs requires separate playback software
Windows 7 desktop gadgets will be removed as part of installing Windows 10.

----------

Mike C (04-Jun-15)

----------


## Xplosiv

Thanks for the link vieome, it certainly made me think some. I might try Win 10 at the office and keep Win 7 at home for a while.

----------


## tec0

> I must be honest, my Windows 8 and 8.1 hasn't given me a day of trouble.
> The only problem I've seen with windows 8 and 8.1 has been old or incompatible drivers from 3rd party vendors causing the problems with the OS.
> 
> I think MS has learnt a bit from Apple IOS, make it easy for your users to upgrade to the latest version to improve the percentage of users using the latest version of the product.
> 
> Good luck.


I consider myself to actually know a little something about computers because i am still active in IT even if it is no longer my profession. Windows XP Pro was the gold Standard then Windows 7 Pro showed that Microsoft can build something proper. But I honestly had ZERO problems with windows 8.1 most of my Windows 7 drivers worked with it and when I found supported drivers for the rest of my stuff I never looked back. To date zero crashes not a single one. 

Do i trust windows 10? Hell no... But i will keep my eye on it, once it hit SP1 or SP2 stage yea I might be interested.  


truth about windows 10  :Devil2:

----------


## IMHO

Did you guys get it yet? I did the reservation and it says it will only be downloaded on July 29 ?

----------


## Mike C

I haven't reserved mine yet IMHO.  I am a little wary.  As the saying goes "Feeling Lucky?  Try updaing your software!"

Let us know how it goes and what you think of it.

----------


## Dave A

> Did you guys get it yet? I did the reservation and it says it will only be downloaded on July 29 ?


That's the launch date. So yeah, a little patience required.

----------


## IanF

Just saw this 
"Please read: Window 10 is not supported on any fiery"
This is used to drive our colour printer which we also produce 90% of the positives for our press.

----------


## irneb

> Just saw this 
> "Please read: Window 10 is not supported on any fiery"
> This is used to drive our colour printer which we also produce 90% of the positives for our press.


We had the same issue with Océ before - drivers for XP to the RIP server on our TDS600 was never updated to work on Vista/7/8/etc. Necessitated throwing out a perfectly working large format laser printer and replacing it with a new one for half a bar, just because MS killed the drivers/network connection protocol and Océ saw a way of making extra money off their customers by forcing them to buy new equipment.

As to W10 working for me, I've been trying it out (the preview edition since mid-last-year) inside a WMWare Player install on my Kubuntu. It seems to work "nice", though some of the drivers don't work (as yet) - e.g. the graphics for passthrough in the VM to my Geforce card is simply non-functional. But my biggest gripe is that some of my required programs are yet to work on W10, Revit 2015/6 simply doesn't want to even try installing - simply states unsupported OS. May probably have to wait for their 2017 version - which should be out by Feb next year (yep AutoDesk counts using marketing number systems).

----------


## IanF

I have been told the way round this is to setup hotfolders for your rip and you drop the PDF in there and then print from the fiery workstation. Naturally this is an additional paid option from fiery. I get frustrated by the technology cycle as most new features are never used.

----------


## irneb

> I have been told the way round this is to setup hotfolders for your rip and you drop the PDF in there and then print from the fiery workstation. Naturally this is an additional paid option from fiery. I get frustrated by the technology cycle as most new features are never used.


Yes, we did something similar (at least to begin with), not PDF but either PS or HPGL2(PRN) files created by some HP Plotter driver which we then save into a shared folder on the server (at the time we used a Slackware server so the Win NT4 RIP machine could still link to it, once we "upgraded" to a Win 2008 server that was out of the question also).

But even that scenario isn't possible to automate. For some reason MS decided that setting a printer driver to save to file means the files are only on local discs, not network shares, and the user access rights are only the administrators. Which in turn meant each PC had a "temp-plot" folder, each user had to be given admin rights (big whoop MS ... way to force users to screw up security), and have a custom program constantly run in the background to check if the folder contained anything so it would copy it off into the shared folder.

In the end it got so screwed up that the company just bought the damned "new" plotter ... it wasn't faster / better / more robust than the old one, to the contrary, it was more expensive on running costs, was about 20% slower, didn't give as great black and grey shades, constantly got stuck as its paper rolls were incredibly finicky about being installed precisely to the half-millimetre, only had a large format scanner built in (on top so you couldn't print while scanning), etc. etc. Basically paid through the nose to be much worse off than before, just because the RIP server ran on an old Windows which didn't communicate with the new Windows on the workstations.

----------


## IanF

> Yes, we did something similar (at least to begin with), not PDF but either PS or HPGL2(PRN) files created by some HP Plotter driver which we then save into a shared folder on the server (at the time we used a Slackware server so the Win NT4 RIP machine could still link to it, once we "upgraded" to a Win 2008 server that was out of the question also).
> 
> But even that scenario isn't possible to automate. For some reason MS decided that setting a printer driver to save to file means the files are only on local discs, not network shares, and the user access rights are only the administrators. Which in turn meant each PC had a "temp-plot" folder, each user had to be given admin rights (big whoop MS ... way to force users to screw up security), and have a custom program constantly run in the background to check if the folder contained anything so it would copy it off into the shared folder.
> 
> In the end it got so screwed up that the company just bought the damned "new" plotter ... it wasn't faster / better / more robust than the old one, to the contrary, it was more expensive on running costs, was about 20% slower, didn't give as great black and grey shades, constantly got stuck as its paper rolls were incredibly finicky about being installed precisely to the half-millimetre, only had a large format scanner built in (on top so you couldn't print while scanning), etc. etc. Basically paid through the nose to be much worse off than before, just because the RIP server ran on an old Windows which didn't communicate with the new Windows on the workstations.


Wow that is bad. I have thrown away some lemons but got value from the machines. The skew on wide format is horrible problems we mainly print on 120 GSM or heavier paper and that loads quite nicely but is big bucks. We don't have a wide format scanner the printer with the scanner gave us test prints that wouldn't dry so that took care of getting a scanner.

----------


## tec0

saw a windows tablet yesterday and loved how it is very close to being an actual PC. Made by HP, it looked good but figured if the start button is back it will be actually not good for this type of system. This is what i would recommend if i was still in the IT business. Get a test rig going make sure everything you want to work can work on it then then do the update see what happens. It is the only sure fire way to keep your business safe and do tests. 

i personally would still hang on to windows 8.1 till it is no longer supported by Microsoft. OS incompatibility is crippling for businesses and i wouldn't risk it. If you are running Windows 7 pro do the test because it is a lot older then windows 8.1 But if you are like me and everything is going on windows 8.1 leave it be or do the test rig.

----------


## HR Solutions

I seriously don't have the time or the inclination to do "tests".  I would rather decide what to buy after doing research and go in and buy it !
I bought my Mac about a year ago and never looked back.  Mac is not for everyone but there are plenty other makes out there that would suit you.  Right now I need to buy a lightweight laptop for my wife.  She hates Mac but there there are certainly similar looking/feeling laptops out there.  Storage size on a computer is also no longer important as most stuff is kept offline.  All our packages we work on is kept offline.  There is absolutely NO need for a big storage computer for us anymore. Important to us is speed and weight.  I am going to buy here a lightweight laptop and downgrade it to Windows 7.  It is still totally usable and the best out there.

----------


## IanF

Macs have the same problems as PCs when it comes to drivers and programmes. The mac guys have to check if the stuff they use is compatible with the latest OS.

----------

tec0 (11-Jun-15)

----------


## HR Solutions

> Macs have the same problems as PCs when it comes to drivers and programmes. The mac guys have to check if the stuff they use is compatible with the latest OS.



Possibly ........ I have never experienced a hiccup

----------


## tec0

I recall doing server system for a company, Installed a mega storage system NAS all the way because realistically as long as it can talk to the LAN you don't worry about to much. Got the mail going and did all the rest. six months I pulled out due to none payment and then got a call about a year later. See the new IT guys didn't do tests they just updated the system. They didn't think about thirds party systems. See online they got the idea that the system was compatible. Reality however is this. 

Some systems have what is known as driver boards and thumb-drives that must be plugged in at all times or else the system would just not start up and software is rendered useless. Here is the thing they didn't bother doing a simple clone of the system. Now I manage to restore everything as the server did its job and backed everything up data wise and because I wasn't stupid i had a image file of the original install on one of the NAS drives. Long story short magic happened and the company was up and running again and actually paid me the money owed and so on. 

Point is this... How important is your system? Can you afford to lose data? Can you afford to recover? Do you have Recovery plan? If any of answers is No then it is time to think... OK time is money how much will i lose if I go head first and how much will I lose doing a test rig. For a pro data recovery and everything else is easy will take about 30min to a few hours to get everything going. BUT if you are on the clock and have something to lose and no expertise don't risk it... get the test rig going

----------


## IanF

> Possibly ........ I have never experienced a hiccup


HR this is even happening with programmes, we use acrobat professional and have add ins there. We didn't opt for the $50 month adobe subscription as the addons lag the new releases and can cause problems in production. So you have to be careful what you upgrade. Mainstream stuff like word etc. should be fine.

----------


## Seanmt

I have found that win 8 is NOT compatable with all devices, for example some PLC's and vinyl cutters

----------


## tec0

> I have found that win 8 is NOT compatable with all devices, for example some PLC's and vinyl cutters


True some people still use Win-XP for that very reason. If you are lucky sometimes you get a modded driver but most of the time XP is gold

----------


## skirk@mweb.co.za

Hi Neville,

I have updated to windows 10 now I cannot open any companies in my pastel xpress 11.  Please can you help me.

Thanks in advance

----------


## irneb

> Hi Neville,
> 
> I have updated to windows 10 now I cannot open any companies in my pastel xpress 11.  Please can you help me.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Nope, you need to re-install your old Windows over he new W10. And then re-install all your programs. Probably first copy off all data just to be safe.

I think MS is going to have lots of law suits happening ala Vista style!

BTW. Be careful with W10 ... it does multi GB updates in the background without you even noticing. Not good if your ISP connection is expensive and/or capped. Just look at this ... 1st day of official release and already an update of over 1GB: http://www.winbeta.org/news/day-one-...download-links

----------


## Neville Bailey

> Hi Neville,
> 
> I have updated to windows 10 now I cannot open any companies in my pastel xpress 11.  Please can you help me.
> 
> Thanks in advance


Try the following:

When you get to the Open...Files window, click on Manage. What do you see in the pane on the left?

If you see a Computer name at the top, and companies listed below, with red crosses over them, then click each one in turn and select Activate Company and browse to the company folder in your Xpress11 folder.

If you see a Computer name at the top, with nothing beneath, confirm that that name corresponds with your actual computer name by clicking on W10 Start...File Explorer and then right-clicking on "This PC" and then selecting Properties. If the name does not correspond, then rename your computer to correspond with the name in the pane.

If you see nothing at all in the pane, click on Locate Server and then browse to C:\Xpress11\Custom and select the Registration folder.

----------


## skirk@mweb.co.za

Thank you so much Neville.  I will give it a try.

----------


## MacGee

Maybe a small word of warning.  The Windows 10 upgrade is free on consumer grade versions of Windows 7 and up.  When anything in IT/Internet/Software is free to the end user, then the end user is the product.  In other words, your data is being mined and sent back to servers at Microsoft.  This is why you need a Microsoft account just to log onto your computer.  

It says as much in the end user license agreement or privacy agreement.  It's also all over the Internet if you Google it.  

Link --> https://www.google.co.za/search?q=wi...ows+10+privacy

----------


## BusFact

What exactly is meant by "your data is being mined" - to a layman?

----------


## MacGee

Hi BusFact,

Data mining is defined as the practice of examining large pre-existing databases in order to generate new information.

In simple terms as it relates to Windows 10, there are concerns that the text in internet searches you do, documents you write, documents you save, emails you write and so forth are saved on a server and analysed in order to better target ads to you.  Facebook, for example, already does this with anything you write on Facebook.  The concern with Windows 10 is that this will now be done with anything you write on Windows 10.

Hope this makes some sort of sense.

----------

BusFact (04-Aug-15)

----------


## BusFact

Thanks MacGee. I can't say I'm overly concerned with targeted adds, but as with Gmail, its more the concern over who else gets to access confidential info.

----------


## tec0

> Hi BusFact,
> 
> Data mining is defined as the practice of examining large pre-existing databases in order to generate new information.
> 
> In simple terms as it relates to Windows 10, there are concerns that the text in internet searches you do, documents you write, documents you save, emails you write and so forth are saved on a server and analysed in order to better target ads to you.  Facebook, for example, already does this with anything you write on Facebook.  The concern with Windows 10 is that this will now be done with anything you write on Windows 10.
> 
> Hope this makes some sort of sense.


I think i need to test this thing out on a 1GB prepaid data bundle. Something tells me this is going to be a data heavy product like android. Not only are they mining but actual data consumption is going to be heavy. I recall that you can disable updates from windows xp, to windows 8.1 I wonder if the option still exists. 

Simple reality is if you run 7 or more computers each downloading updates at the same time constantly your cap will not last "depending on your line/contract" it might also slow the network down. Internet was suppose to be an add-on to your local LAN, now you can hardly function without it.

----------


## irneb

Regarding the extra data for W10, that is my worry too ... especially as the very first update constituted a 500MB download.

About the data mining ... that's just plain wrong, but you have to agree with it else you're not allowed to use W10. There's a clause in the end user license agreement:



> Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary.


Plainly that gives them the right to upload all your personal stuff from any file / email on your computer. Here's a rant about the very issue, with some work-arounds (though just how much they help I'm not sure, i.e. similar to that "opt-out" idea which IMO just marks you for "prime to be mined"): http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...em.single.html

Another issue I have with W10, is some of the features of W7 and W8 which was removed - these seem to be extra for a fee in W10. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...s-10-charging/

----------

tec0 (06-Aug-15)

----------


## tec0

what happened to the good old days when games was on CDs or DVDs and would simply work on a computer or gaming system. Or when your biggest worry was what your 56k dial op modem's password was... E-mail was a simple hi and bye mail and a photo or two to show your friends that your girlfriend wasn't imaginary? Today we have steam that killed the local LANs and single player gaming. We have Microsoft and Google logging our every breath and to add we get to pay for the data that they use to spy on us. 

Data mining is big business and more to the point so is information gathering. Imagine writing a book and someone gets hold of your early script and go publish it. What chance do you have in proving that you wrote it first and that someone stole it? Sending that e-mail to your wife's best friend gets logged and targeted advertisement starts sending you divorce lawyer's information? Our Phones have virtual pets that force you to watch advertisements and forcing you to tell your friends how cool there product is. 

Seriously?     

Ask yourself is your notebook/laptop pc and phone really yours? The answer is no... Try ridding yourself of all the crap that comes installed on your phone. You will find that it is not that easy. I have been experimenting on a old computer how to run Linux effectively safely, how to configure the firewalls even got use to the free word processor. Then it hit me. Two systems is the answer here. 

I configured the one running Linux to do the internet stuff and kept my Windows system away from any and all networks. So now my word documents are safe alongside my other content. I found a stand alone antivirus type program that can be updated by downloading files for it and just use a USB thumb-drive/flash-drive to update it and there you go.   

Then i realized I can do more then just run Linux, i can run it off a  USB thumb-drive/flash-drive and continued to clone 2 OS "one on DVD" the second on the USB thumb-drive/flash-drive. Now i have the option to clear my system after every internet session. Restoring it takes a few minutes and i can get away without having to maintain multiple hard-drives...

So what of Windows 10? We all know how this enema works by now. They will simply force you to use it... So maybe it is seriously time to get rid of it and show Microsoft we are prepared to go without them. Yes business is one-thing but your home PC??? Consider your home computer has family photos, diary, private mail between you and close friends... Do you really want Microsoft to copy and send all of that to there head office so that someone you don't even know can look at all the content? 

Maybe it is time to step back and start a public protest demanding privacy! Get some hard core lawyers involved and get the media buzzing. We shouldn't stand for this or allow it. 

The phone you buy is your property, as is the computer and tablet not to mention your gaming system and TV.

----------

irneb (08-Aug-15)

----------


## HR Solutions

I hate microsoft and that is one of the reasons I went Mac

----------


## murray

> I have been experimenting on a old computer how to run Linux effectively safely, how to configure the firewalls even got use to the free word processor. Then it hit me. Two systems is the answer here. 
> 
> I configured the one running Linux to do the internet stuff and kept my Windows system away from any and all networks. So now my word documents are safe alongside my other content. I found a stand alone antivirus type program that can be updated by downloading files for it and just use a USB thumb-drive/flash-drive to update it and there you go.   
> 
> Then i realized I can do more then just run Linux, i can run it off a  USB thumb-drive/flash-drive and continued to clone 2 OS "one on DVD" the second on the USB thumb-drive/flash-drive. Now i have the option to clear my system after every internet session. Restoring it takes a few minutes and i can get away without having to maintain multiple hard-drives...


I suppose you own a house and rent another one so you can go there and hide from people that know where you live...

If if wasnt for the disclaimer I would call you paranoid.

----------


## murray

> I hate microsoft and that is one of the reasons I went Mac


Every time I have to use a mac, I am thinking "what are these guys on?" I dont get it. I am convinced the mind altering substances Steve Jobs took did some permanent altering to his brain.

----------


## tec0

Not to turn the thread on its head but let us look as some alternatives. 

Here is one for the steam gamer... 



I will be giving this ago soon, I personally hate any system that forces you to play single player online but what are you going to do about it? As it stand now this will become a norm. What i like however it is free and has a Linux back bone so you can add to it get it working to do other stuff. 

However note the following. 




> Installing and Customizing SteamOS
> What are the SteamOS Hardware Requirements?
> Processor:
> Intel or AMD 64-bit capable processor
> 
> Memory:
> 4GB or more RAM
> 
> Hard Drive:
> ...


I know some people dislike it when we post videos explaining stuff but i think it is worth the watch as it explains a lot especially for our gaming community on here  :Wink:

----------


## vieome

@tecO you should give puppy linux a try Puppy Linux You can install it directly on the the windows drive as frugal install(from Puppy install grub to make PC dual Boot). It is one of the fastest linux distros out there and the download is about 150mb only, the program files are small as well lke 50kb. You can also install windows programs to run on a linux distro using "wine".   I have being using Linux for over 15 years, the only time I use windows is to run Pastel.

----------

tec0 (07-Aug-15)

----------


## HR Solutions

> If if wasnt for the disclaimer I would call you paranoid.


You are quite right there murray

----------


## tec0

> I suppose you own a house and rent another one so you can go there and hide from people that know where you live...
> 
> If if wasnt for the disclaimer I would call you paranoid.


i had a very long response typed out here but deleted it. Simple questions are. Who is more paranoid; me thinking my bank statements is for my eyes only or Microsoft wanting to go trough ALL information and files stored on the system? Think about that... 

Now would you let a total stranger come into your home document your belongings/bank information and just leave? Must say you are a brave person most people would tell that stranger to leave. 

This is not about hiding anything it is about who is accessing that information and why. More importantly can i hold them accountable if confidential projects leak to the competition?

----------

irneb (08-Aug-15)

----------


## tec0

> @tecO you should give puppy linux a try Puppy Linux You can install it directly on the the windows drive as frugal install(from Puppy install grub to make PC dual Boot). It is one of the fastest linux distros out there and the download is about 150mb only, the program files are small as well lke 50kb. You can also install windows programs to run on a linux distro using "wine".   I have being using Linux for over 15 years, the only time I use windows is to run Pastel.


I will look into it thanks, vieome

----------


## HR Solutions

Lol ... Really  :Wink:

----------


## geeki_review

Dave you should definitely go for the upgrade windows 10 is one of the best operating system Microsoft has to offer 

Check the below video for windows 10 brief review

https://youtu.be/zoutLUppiQQ

but before upgrading just check the compatibility of your system if its compatible you should give it a try

----------


## murray

> i had a very long response typed out here but deleted it. Simple questions are. Who is more paranoid; me thinking my bank statements is for my eyes only or Microsoft wanting to go trough ALL information and files stored on the system? Think about that... 
> 
> Now would you let a total stranger come into your home document your belongings/bank information and just leave? Must say you are a brave person most people would tell that stranger to leave. 
> 
> This is not about hiding anything it is about who is accessing that information and why. More importantly can i hold them accountable if confidential projects leak to the competition?


I would change banks if I was this paranoid, to one that did not use unencrypted distribution of bank statements. Personally I think my bank balance is of no interest to Microsoft, since its in monopoly money (ZAR). 

Personally I think its just some legal clause to protect Microsoft from a lawsuit for violating the privacy compromised if, by accident, they access your info. I dont think they are the big evil company you are making them out to be... 

There are ways to secure your data. Encryption. If you have projects you dont want leaked out, maybe even have a seperate computer which is never connected to a network. Make sure you have a nice long password in case _Spy vs Spy_ visits. Most of us normal people dont have to worry about industrial espionage.

----------


## tec0

> I would change banks if I was this paranoid, to one that did not use unencrypted distribution of bank statements. Personally I think my bank balance is of no interest to Microsoft, since its in monopoly money (ZAR). 
> 
> Personally I think its just some legal clause to protect Microsoft from a lawsuit for violating the privacy compromised if, by accident, they access your info. I dont think they are the big evil company you are making them out to be... 
> 
> There are ways to secure your data. Encryption. If you have projects you dont want leaked out, maybe even have a seperate computer which is never connected to a network. Make sure you have a nice long password in case _Spy vs Spy_ visits. Most of us normal people dont have to worry about industrial espionage.


You would be wrong to assume that. This is not about spy vs spy, or what they can or can't see. As i stated before it is about liability. If someone wants to know the combination to your safe then for obvious reasons you would like to know why they need to know and what will happen if something goes missing. This is all that this is about. 

simple take on this is "if the crap hits the fan someone must take accountability" If they are willing to simply state outright that our information will be added to there database then i expect them to keep us safe. If my safety is compromised i expect accountability.   

right now it is a one way street and that is my problem. 

Accountability it is as simple as that. Right now there is no system to monitor them on my behalf and there is no system i can use once there is a problem. Like you said we live in a third world with useless paper money. But there is no system... America for example have several systems each able act on the people's behalf. What do we have?

----------


## HR Solutions

Eish ..... Paranoid is an understatement .....

----------


## tec0

there are many older articles about windows 10 long before it got to this stage now. 




> Windows 10: Permission to keylog
> 
> The document reveals that Windows 10 can collect and use data in a variety of astounding ways, sending it to Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ:MSFT) at any time without the user being aware.
> 
> “If you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes any use [of] it for purposes such as improving performance, or [if you] enter text, we may collect typed characters, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving autocomplete and spellcheck features,” it states.
> 
> Effectively by accepting the Windows 10 privacy policy you are giving Microsoft permission to screen your files, and log your keystrokes.
> 
> source


What is keylog/keylogging? 




> Keystroke logging, often referred to as keylogging or keyboard capturing, is the action of recording (or logging) the keys struck on a keyboard, typically in a covert manner so that the person using the keyboard is unaware that their actions are being monitored.[1] It has uses in the study of human–computer interaction. There are numerous keylogging methods, ranging from hardware and software-based approaches to acoustic analysis.
> 
> source


Clearly there is much more to this then just simple worries. Everything we do online does need some type of user name and password protection. What good is your bank password if someone can see it? What good is your e-mail password if someone can see it? What good is your gaming account password if someone can see it?  What good is your facebook password if someone can see it? What can a person potentially do with all these password? Well they can mess around with your social life business communications and banking as well as other financials 

Security exist for a reason and that is to secure information and access. There is a concern here and it is a big one...  Well as a thread i think Windows 10 has been explored. My final word of advice is use it at your own risk and know that privacy is dead officially. Paranoid or not doesn't mean they are not after you because clearly they are and is actively collecting any and all data that they can.

----------

bones (15-Aug-15)

----------


## Justloadit

The reality of personal information being open only really hits you when someone uses this information to commit fraud using your credentials.
The effort required to clear your name is far beyond ones imagination.

I believe prevention exceeds the cure.

I remember Jeremy Clarkson  who reckoned that the fact that his bank account number made public would not cause any harm, after all it required his permission to make and withdrawals from his account, so effectively it was safe.
Hahahaha, one listener went to prove a point, and managed to take a great chunk of his money from his account. This was simply done, by creating a debit order. After this incident, the Jeremy conceded that all personal information should be only released if and when required and confirmed.

----------

bones (15-Aug-15), tec0 (09-Aug-15)

----------


## tec0

I think time will tell what all this info will be used for and if it is still safe using social networks, search engines and even this type of OS

My question is; Why do this? Why do they need to know every single keyboard key being pressed? It is just not right fact is it is wrong...

44

----------

bones (15-Aug-15)

----------


## Blurock

> Dave you should definitely go for the upgrade windows 10 is one of the best operating system Microsoft has to offer 
> 
> Check the below video for windows 10 brief review
> 
> https://youtu.be/zoutLUppiQQ
> 
> but before upgrading just check the compatibility of your system if its compatible you should give it a try


Wait until they have sorted out all the bugs before downloading. Nothing works as before and you will have to reload your mail passwords the lot. If you play games, settings will not be the same and some games may not function on this system. There are thousands of online complaints on W10 :Frown:

----------

tec0 (09-Aug-15)

----------


## murray

I upgraded just 1 day ago. 

All my software works like it did in 8.1. The update took about an hour. (not the download, I left that running in the background)

I never had to type in any new passwords for my email ( I use thunderbird) All my stuff from firefox like passwords are all still there. 

I retained the _classic shell_ menu, because its familiar and the win 10 start menu is not.

I like that the metro interface is completely gone for me. No annoying corner hotspots.

Pastel MyBusiness runs still.  That was the only application I didnt know for sure ran on windows 10 before I did the upgrade.

I was surprised at the ease that this upgrade happened for me. The only problem is my PC cant "sleep". Apparently that is fixed in an update. I have disabled updates since I used about 5gigs already and I have less than 7 gigs left to last me the rest of the month... I expect to get the update in September but until then I can shutdown daily. My PC boots in 15 seconds so its no big deal.

Other than that its much the same as 8.1 (with Classic Shell start menu)... Cant fault it.

----------


## murray

> there are many older articles about windows 10 long before it got to this stage now. 
> 
> 
> 
> What is keylog/keylogging? 
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly there is much more to this then just simple worries. Everything we do online does need some type of user name and password protection. What good is your bank password if someone can see it? What good is your e-mail password if someone can see it? What good is your gaming account password if someone can see it?  What good is your facebook password if someone can see it? What can a person potentially do with all these password? Well they can mess around with your social life business communications and banking as well as other financials 
> ...


This is not a feature of Windows 10—this exists only for the Technical Preview and will be removed from the final version of Windows 10.

source

----------


## MacGee

Maybe worth mentioning that if you have a legally binding commitment to protect your own client's confidentiality/privacy you probably shouldn't use the "free" Windows 10 upgrade. Your clients info will be sent to Microsofts servers (as clearly stated in their end user license agreement), meaning you will knowingly be sharing your clients information with a third party. This is probably most relevant to accountants and lawyers.  I know I don't want my accountants and lawyers sharing my information with third parties. The ways around this are:
1. Buy an enterprise license of Windows 10 (this is the same license corporates use, and doesn't allow for your data to be sent to Microsoft)
2. If you want to use the free version, make sure your clients are aware of where their confidential data is being sent to, or at least that you are not sure what is happening to it.
3. Don't use Windows 10.

----------

irneb (14-Aug-15)

----------


## tec0

until i see the new license agreement i will accept that Windows 10 is spy-ware. When i do see the new agreement and this clear violation of privacy is removed then i will change my view on it. Also i would do some data capturing of my own making sure there is no spooks.

+++++++++++++++++++++
EDIT
+++++++++++++++++++++

----------

irneb (18-Aug-15)

----------


## irneb

And some tests after trying to disable all these spyware ideas from Microsoft shows that things like Cortana and OneDrive keep uploading data from your local PC to MS's servers even if you disable those programs:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows...vacy-settings/

The question here is "Why"? The obvious (and least malicious) answer: "They're using the data to sell on for targeting advert purposes". E.g. if you've got a few files relating to houses on your system, you're going to get spammed by property adverts (i.e. just how google works on its searches, only now it's based on your off-line data files as well). Of course, there's nothing stopping MS from using such data for other purposes also. If it might make financial / political / enforcement sense, why would they actively avoid using it for anything else?

But then here's a statement that contradicts this completely:



> In a statement to the tech site, Microsoft said "no query or search usage data is sent" to the company, but did not elaborate much further.


So, NOT doing what google does (i.e. they're not interested in your most recent search activity in order to target spam adverts). What are they stealing then? For what purpose(es)?

----------

bones (15-Aug-15)

----------


## vieome

I guess there is a bit of a double standard, in that if some young kid takes a bit of information from some corporate computer, then there is a high penalty to pay, however these corporate companys can take what they like from your computer with no consequences, they dont even have to tell you in the small print exactly what the information is used for. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov

In terms of google one could say it is the price you pay to use their search service. But in terms of microsoft, you buy the OS, and add a further payment ...  your information.

----------

bones (15-Aug-15), irneb (18-Aug-15)

----------


## bones

i think i will stay away from this f_cking thing 
looks like it is going to eat my internet cap

----------


## Desert Man

Won't everybody eventually be forced to use Windows 10 (expect for Linux and Mac users)?

----------


## MacGee

> Won't everybody eventually be forced to use Windows 10 (expect for Linux and Mac users)?


Theoretically, yes.  But remember, you are not forced to use the "free" consumer grade version (the one that sends your information to MS).  Microsoft does have Enterprise versions.

----------

Desert Man (17-Aug-15)

----------


## Desert Man

> Theoretically, yes.  But remember, you are not forced to use the "free" consumer grade version (the one that sends your information to MS).  Microsoft does have Enterprise versions.


Thanks MacGee. How about the Pro version wrt to sending info to MS (for those of us too small for Enterprise)?

----------


## irneb

> Thanks MacGee. How about the Pro version wrt to sending info to MS (for those of us too small for Enterprise)?


Really not sure. If you look at Microsoft's own comparison of the 4 versions they offer, they say nothing about their spyware: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Wind...siness/Compare

You'd imagine that the paid-for Pro and Enterprise versions (and possibly the Edu version too) should have this type of thing (for which you usually install stuff such as AV's and anti-spy software to get rid of) removed. But I still cannot find any mention of such. All I can find is media / forum sites talking about just how much all versions of W10 is stealing user data.

And from my own experience I could see that the W10 Pro 64 version I installed (by upgrading a VM with W8.1 inside it) is sending and receiving data across the network, it's literally a constant stream of data at similar bandwidth use as if I'm streaming video (i.e. between 500kb/s and 2Mb/s, in both directions, upload and download), in the end I had to disable the VM's network before my cap was reached! And that's the Pro version which upgraded a bought & licensed W8.1 Pro.

Edit: And while searching for any mention of Pro/Ent having the malware portion of Windows removed I came across this: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cr...ly/026136.html
 :Yikes:  WTF? So if you choose the encrypt your disc, then it will be backed up "securely" into bitlocker, but your passkey to unlock the bitlocker is "backed up" as plain old text onto your OneDrive account. In addition to MS sharing all files on your OneDrive to whomsoever they choose.  :Crazy:  That's pretty awesome isn't it? I mean, when going out I always lock my front door then hang the key on the hook next to it so anyone who wants to can just come in at will!  :Whistling:

----------

Desert Man (17-Aug-15)

----------


## Desert Man

> Really not sure. If you look at Microsoft's own comparison of the 4 versions they offer, they say nothing about their spyware: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Wind...siness/Compare
> 
> You'd imagine that the paid-for Pro and Enterprise versions (and possibly the Edu version too) should have this type of thing (for which you usually install stuff such as AV's and anti-spy software to get rid of) removed. But I still cannot find any mention of such. All I can find is media / forum sites talking about just how much all versions of W10 is stealing user data.
> 
> And from my own experience I could see that the W10 Pro 64 version I installed (by upgrading a VM with W8.1 inside it) is sending and receiving data across the network, it's literally a constant stream of data at similar bandwidth use as if I'm streaming video (i.e. between 500kb/s and 2Mb/s, in both directions, upload and download), in the end I had to disable the VM's network before my cap was reached! And that's the Pro version which upgraded a bought & licensed W8.1 Pro.
> 
> Edit: And while searching for any mention of Pro/Ent having the malware portion of Windows removed I came across this: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cr...ly/026136.html
>  WTF? So if you choose the encrypt your disc, then it will be backed up "securely" into bitlocker, but your passkey to unlock the bitlocker is "backed up" as plain old text onto your OneDrive account. In addition to MS sharing all files on your OneDrive to whomsoever they choose.  That's pretty awesome isn't it? I mean, when going out I always lock my front door then hang the key on the hook next to it so anyone who wants to can just come in at will!



Yikes - the more one digs the deeper the intrigue. Not cool at all!

----------


## Dave A

I know it's hard to feel sorry for Microsoft, but they put out a beta for everyone to rip into, and all this stuff never came up (one assumes).

Roll the product out live, and  :EEK!:

----------


## irneb

> I know it's hard to feel sorry for Microsoft, but they put out a beta for everyone to rip into, and all this stuff never came up (one assumes).
> 
> Roll the product out live, and


Well, they did have their Insider Program (which I was a part of) with the preview edition of W10. And they did actually "fix" some of the bugs found in it ... BUT
http://betanews.com/2015/08/15/micro...t-doesnt-like/

----------


## IanF

Microsoft are trying to get onto the subscription model were you pay monthly for your software and as soon as you stop the software is disabled. Nice for Microsoft, but what happens where you get a new credit card and the subscription bounces as an example. It will cause hassles. 
Adobe do a similar thing but there are lots of third party apps for programmes like acrobat and these only update the apps when the new versions are released. Now all of a sudden you sit with a non functioning and essential part of your business! A lot of the big printshops still use the older versions with working apps to guard against this. Microsoft and apple have the same problem with drivers for machines you work off your computers as drivers for production machines aren't updated in a hurry. So then you need a working production computer and an "uptodate" computer so you can accept the latest customer files. 

Things like this add to the costs of running a business.

----------

irneb (18-Aug-15)

----------


## irneb

> ...
> 1. Buy an enterprise license of Windows 10 (this is the same license corporates use, and doesn't allow for your data to be sent to Microsoft)
> ...


Do you have some documentation on that? I've been searching for just such ... seeing as we sometimes do get projects from the government (stuff like prisons) where we have to sign a contract to the effect that we will basically not allow anyone to even see the documents. Though I simply cannot find any mention of such on any of the paid-for versions of W10. I'd have expected Microsoft to at least mention it as a "feature" of those.

----------


## tec0

Got Virtual PC going installed a version of win10 on it.... killed 70% of its internet traffic... it is not easy as you need firewall software "third party" and know windows inside out "and i so happen to know a bit about windows. But my packet sniffer still picked up some encrypted packets. My goal is to see no traffic other then my portable browser's traffic and that of the 3G modem itself. When i am happy that i plugged every hole i will make a instructional "if i can get the damn thing to go against its nature" But it will take some time. 

I am not happy to see what i saw in the registry... more on that later. 

for those of you that want to play with it here is a link... 

evaluate windows 10 enterprise

If i can bend it to my will it might not need the third party firewall...

----------


## vieome

> Got Virtual PC going installed a version of win10 on it.... killed 70% of its internet traffic... it is not easy as you need firewall software "third party" and know windows inside out "and i so happen to know a bit about windows. But my packet sniffer still picked up some encrypted packets. My goal is to see no traffic other then my portable browser's traffic and that of the 3G modem itself. When i am happy that i plugged every hole i will make a instructional "if i can get the damn thing to go against its nature" But it will take some time. 
> 
> I am not happy to see what i saw in the registry... more on that later. 
> 
> for those of you that want to play with it here is a link... 
> 
> evaluate windows 10 enterprise
> 
> If i can bend it to my will it might not need the third party firewall...


Teco that is alot of work! try and use  cports http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/cports.html and then you can kill the unwanted process .

----------

tec0 (19-Aug-15)

----------


## tec0

> Teco that is alot of work! try and use  cports http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/cports.html and then you can kill the unwanted process .


Will look into it thanks  :Smile:

----------


## Ganx

Not so surprised with all the negativity surrounding W10 with the claims (and facts) on the privacy issues... BUT... having been using W10 since around March. As far as OS systems go with microsoft, this is certainly one of there best yet in my opinion. We also have a couple of guys that use it at work now ... so far, so good as the OS goes. Very few hassles updating, mostly display driver issues that actually come right with standard updates. NEVER thought i would ever say this.. but they have redeemed themselves on the OS side.. ( i am surely to be damned for that one LOL)

On the privacy side.. i dont think any surprises! Yes, no doubt an invasion, but believe that they have only given in to what many are already doing. All the conspiracy therorys out there about how much Google, MS etc can tell you about yourself, Apple, banks hacked, Etolls..etc etc.. On that basis, i have been using encrypted drives for a few years already. I still use Trucrypt as, nope.. not to much faith in Bitlocker just yet, also advanced firewall settings.
Keylogging, that i must say didnt see.. and if they have access to keylogs, then a matter of time before ti's hacked (if it's there...there's a way!) I don't think the privacy issue is going to go away, but there will be ways of stopping/slowing it down. As for clouds... One drive, cloud.. etc etc..all disabled. Don't like my stuff out there..bit old fashioned that way, hard drive in the safe. Read far to much on how that's gone wrong for peeps..
Anyways.. my 2 cents  :Smile:

----------


## MacGee

> Not so surprised with all the negativity surrounding W10 with the claims (and facts) on the privacy issues... BUT... having been using W10 since around March. As far as OS systems go with microsoft, this is certainly one of there best yet in my opinion.


Since I instigated the whole privacy debate here, I must admit, the OS as a product on it's own is very nice.  Definitely the best version of Windows I've used.

Maybe one point regarding privacy - one way around all these concerns is to create a standalone account on Windows 10 (one that isn't connected to any MS services) and use that if privacy is a major concern.  And turn off Cotana.  Somebody posted a nice video link above to the things you can do to at least partly protect your privacy.  Here's another link for people who prefer to read these things:

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-configu...acy-1716204024

----------


## irneb

Just for those thinking this "privacy-debate" is just a "conspiracy-theory" / "media hype" ... Microsoft has now admitted that there is no way to completely stop W10 from sending them usage data, keystrokes, browser history, etc. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...s-10-tracking/

----------

tec0 (03-Nov-15)

----------


## tec0

> Just for those thinking this "privacy-debate" is just a "conspiracy-theory" / "media hype" ... Microsoft has now admitted that there is no way to completely stop W10 from sending them usage data, keystrokes, browser history, etc. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...s-10-tracking/


And we must just blindly trust Microsoft with our stuff... yea... I don't see that happening... ever...  :Rant1:

----------


## HR Solutions

> And we must just blindly trust Microsoft with our stuff... yea... I don't see that happening... ever...



Then why did you install Windows 10 ?




> Got Virtual PC going installed a version of win10 on it.

----------


## tec0

> Then why did you install Windows 10 ?


to play with it, figure out how it functions, see if one can maybe disable some functions on it safely. More to the point to learn it. Eventually someone will have win10 on there computer and expect me to fix it.

----------


## irneb

> Eventually someone will have win10 on there computer and expect me to fix it.


Already had that ... some colleague had a MacBook Pro, which she needed to add a Windows into as dual boot (requirement for the main programs we use). Well, it's now impossible for the "man on the street" to buy anything but W10 as a new Windows OS ... unless you know where to go.

Short version: If it wasn't for me trying out W10 inside a VM (which BTW is the only place I'd ever use it myself due to the ability to untie it completely from network connections yet still be able to link to the host's discs) I'd have had huge issues in trying to sort out just how to get the correct drivers. BTW, do NOT attempt installing W10 into a Mac (as yet) - there's some hairy issues. Just getting right-click to work is a pain, and just try to install drivers without a right-click on any Windows. You'll soon understand just how much problems I had.

----------


## Neville Bailey

> BTW, do NOT attempt installing W10 into a Mac (as yet) - there's some hairy issues. Just getting right-click to work is a pain, and just try to install drivers without a right-click on any Windows. You'll soon understand just how much problems I had.


I have been running Windows on my Macbook Pro since June last year (via Parallels), and I haven't experienced the pain that you've described - in fact, it's been a doddle. 

With regards to the right-click issue, it's a very simple tweak in the Macbook's System Preferences. I went to Trackpad and, under the Secondary Click option, I selected "Click in bottom right corner" - right-click enabled!

----------

tec0 (04-Nov-15)

----------


## irneb

> I have been running Windows on my Macbook Pro since June last year (via *Parallels*), and I haven't experienced the pain that you've described - in fact, it's been a doddle.


That's the difference. The programs are extremely heavy 3d graphics, and uses a minimum of 8GB ram (actually preferred 16GB or more, it will not even install on anything with less than 4GB). So a VM on a laptop with only 8GB ram isn't a good idea for this purpose.

Thus it is done through Bootcamp, not Parallels. And that is the niggly bits (Apple actually says their Bootcamp drivers are not yet ready for W10, they recommend you not install anything newer than W8.1 until they've released their W10 drivers). Firstly the WiFi didn't work, so I couldn't connect it to download drivers (even the LAN cable didn't want to work). Fortunately the USB did, so I was able to download manually from another PC and then plug in a stick. After that it went more smoothly.

The right-click tweaks only work once the drivers are finally fixed. You don't have OSX running, so you need windows to read that what you mean by pressing two fingers / holding down a key while pressing / whatever you set your tweak to is actually a right-click.

----------

tec0 (05-Nov-15)

----------


## tec0

Well according to some "gossip" it is said that Windows 10 will be a mandatory upgrade soon. I am yet to confirm this, but it sounds like something Microsoft will do as there quest to dominate our private information is turning into a race between Microsoft and android. With the new international laws making data collection mandatory will also be a driving factor. And the copyright crazies are all joining in, in hopes to stop any form of what they conciser unfair use... So pressure is now coming from multitude directions. 

Now if you do a search the idea is to access your computer and all of its files remotely without notifying you or without getting a warrant "Show to be reasonable or provide adequate ground for" yea... Now this will make it impossible for the media-news to function because stories can be stopped before it ever see the light of day. Also anyone watching YouTube will notice that the copyright crazies are slowly killing both the creative media aspect and ability "to give fair review" on products services and especially the gaming world. They are simply destroying the little guy. 

So this will become our future as well. This is basically going after a bug with an h-bomb... 

Now in the end this will mean that you will keep a nice old computer around and basically air-gap it. and that is exactly what will happen soon. There are also companies developing instant message encryption software for mobile phones. Basically what will soon be available to us, will be a watered down OS with basically only the "basics" running on it, to avoid keylogging and your communication "via SMS MMS and E-mail" will be encrypted. 

The thing that is scary to me is that 500 million people's data suddenly became a small number! And that systems can effectively scan every word you type in seconds and that software can flag you without any human having a part in it.

----------


## Mike C

> My favourite article on the internet:
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-...fication-tray/
> 
> I have to hide the update from clients until I am ready to update.


Have done this and to my surprise it re-appeared a month later - even though I had marked the update "hide".  I very quickly removed it again, but when I googled it I see that microsoft keep on sending the update out as "revised" which makes it load again.  One article said that they have done this 6 times already.

----------


## James R

When Microsoft kills windows 7 like they did XP i will be going over to a linux based OS.

----------


## bones

> When Microsoft kills windows 7 like they did XP i will be going over to a linux based OS.


it is not easy been trying to get all my printers to work
but was unable so we setup a win7 system and the only 
update it gets is my antivirus we tried windows 10 
found that half of my old stuff like printers and there 
software failed to install

----------


## bones

network printers work ok with win10
and my wifes Genius drawing pad 
also works well.

----------


## irneb

Yet another Microsoft fooze-up: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...-begins-again/

----------


## tec0

> Yet another Microsoft fooze-up: http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...-begins-again/


Yes and no... Look you can disable it all you want if you leave it on long enough and capture enough packets you find that some of them are encrypted and is send on idle meaning no meaningful process is taking place and it is not just to keep the connection alive because the headers is just not confirming it. You cannot turn tracking off... Even if you think it is off it is never off. 

i am 100% sure a backdoor exist and yes i cannot find it BUT it doesn't mean it is not there. Truth is ghost packets don't just happen. And ok i will even give Microsoft the benefit and say OK MAYBE it is third party or some other software doing it... "MAYBE"  But you don't see it on Win7... And that brings this into perspective. However THAT SAID your free antivirus be very careful... Some actually do send packets and it is not for updates it is for advertisement. And since it is a TSR in the memory "no idea what the new generation calls TSR"  chances are it can run other scripts while idling.

Also between windows 8 , 8.1 and 10 the hidden partition size grew a little "depending on what version you are running" There is another clue as to what gets stored "dumped from the RAM" What gets send on and what doesn't. It has to be a passive dump because an active dump will slow gaming systems down because logically while playing a new video game that needs 16Gb of memory there will be very little time to sneak a keylog dump without glitching unless some memory is dedicated to capture on startup. and if that is true then it probably run directly from your registry skipping services and yes the 100MB+ hidden partition can handle reasonable keyboard dumps. 

Now how big a file do you need? well 1kb can store half a page worth of data "depending on compression" and if you ave a algorithm running or not. 1Mb "that is small in today's 3G and even GPRS speeds can hold 500 pages of information so that hidden partition has the potential to store about 50000 pages of text... and since it exports and clear "with the dump being send and new one created old one deleted" that is a lot of text.... a hell of a lot... "of potential spying space" that just shows you how higher speeds made us more open to spying then ever before. even a simple 250kb connection with 50kb up and 20kb down can send 500 pages with ease if it has a hidden protocol or pipe piping the data directly to a high speed server. 

Stuff from here on in gets scary fast.

----------


## irneb

> Yes and no...


I was actually trying to show the BS that MS tries to hoodwink into Jo-Slow.

I.e. at first, deny everything. Then after too much evidence shows you're lying, admit it, but downplay it as "nothing to worry about". Then after the evidence shows that there IS IN FACT A LOT TO WORRY ABOUT, admit that you'll be removing said spy-ware portion in your next update. Then when the update comes, simply rename said spyware to something else. Then we can start the whole process over again.

----------

tec0 (30-Nov-15)

----------


## tec0

> I was actually trying to show the BS that MS tries to hoodwink into Jo-Slow.
> 
> I.e. at first, deny everything. Then after too much evidence shows you're lying, admit it, but downplay it as "nothing to worry about". Then after the evidence shows that there IS IN FACT A LOT TO WORRY ABOUT, admit that you'll be removing said spy-ware portion in your next update. Then when the update comes, simply rename said spyware to something else. Then we can start the whole process over again.


LOL i totally agree with you on every aspect "the yes and no bit" was yes you can disable the existing spy but the new one is already running inside the memory. But seriously i Totally agree with you.  But this i think you will find interesting... The Ghost packets i tracked totaled about 750kb per 1 hour of 3G use. But twice a day the ghost packets double to 1.4Mb of data... Creepy right

----------


## irneb

> The Ghost packets i tracked totaled about 750kb per 1 hour of 3G use. But twice a day the ghost packets double to 1.4Mb of data... Creepy right


Could you find out how much of that is uploads, and how much are downloads/control signals?

I'm guessing there's some timer event which uploads certain information at certain times of the day. But I wouldn't be surprised if some backdoor implementation from MS listens to an "instruction" from some server to tell it to upload certain "other" info also.

Just wondering if something like Comodo Firewall would stop this in its tracks. Not that I'd ever install that (again), talk about a resource hog, even AVs like Norton / AVG could learn from Comodo about how to use up all RAM and CPU cycles such that the computer truly becomes useless. Only it was the most complete 3rd party firewall I've yet found on Windows - basically everything is stopped unless you specifically allow each individually (I always joked that it did this through not allowing anything else to actually "run"). Though that was still on XP, haven't used it again for several years now. But then it would even stop stuff like Windows's Update checks. Reading a later review it seems they've "toned down the behaviour blocking", so I'm guessing it wouldn't do much about W10's theft of data: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414835,00.asp

Not that I'm advocating any such 3rd party firewall to keep W10 from stealing your files, I'd really advise anyone I come across to rather use anything else. But I guess if you're stuck with it (i.e. you have no choice but to go W10) you have 2nd best choice: either allow MS to do whatever the hell they want with ALL of your files / passwords / connection histories / etc. and never actually save anything personal, sensitive, "secret" or allow yourself to type-in any sort of password (or other credentials), basically don't use your PC for the reasons you actually bought it. Or try to block them from doing so, because simply put, no matter what or how many time you tell Windows DON'T STEAL FROM ME, it will just go ahead an steal anyway.

----------


## tec0

> Could you find out how much of that is uploads, and how much are downloads/control signals?
> 
> I'm guessing there's some timer event which uploads certain information at certain times of the day. But I wouldn't be surprised if some backdoor implementation from MS listens to an "instruction" from some server to tell it to upload certain "other" info also.
> 
> Just wondering if something like Comodo Firewall would stop this in its tracks. Not that I'd ever install that (again), talk about a resource hog, even AVs like Norton / AVG could learn from Comodo about how to use up all RAM and CPU cycles such that the computer truly becomes useless. Only it was the most complete 3rd party firewall I've yet found on Windows - basically everything is stopped unless you specifically allow each individually (I always joked that it did this through not allowing anything else to actually "run"). Though that was still on XP, haven't used it again for several years now. But then it would even stop stuff like Windows's Update checks. Reading a later review it seems they've "toned down the behaviour blocking", so I'm guessing it wouldn't do much about W10's theft of data: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2414835,00.asp
> 
> Not that I'm advocating any such 3rd party firewall to keep W10 from stealing your files, I'd really advise anyone I come across to rather use anything else. But I guess if you're stuck with it (i.e. you have no choice but to go W10) you have 2nd best choice: either allow MS to do whatever the hell they want with ALL of your files / passwords / connection histories / etc. and never actually save anything personal, sensitive, "secret" or allow yourself to type-in any sort of password (or other credentials), basically don't use your PC for the reasons you actually bought it. Or try to block them from doing so, because simply put, no matter what or how many time you tell Windows DON'T STEAL FROM ME, it will just go ahead an steal anyway.


When you mentioned it i started to think about BlackICE firewall that thing always worked but its not free. Tell you what I will setup a test computer this weekend again and do a clean install of win10 "no antivirus nothing" and just connect to the net and let it idle and see what packets i capture. I will disable "everything" and see if there are any ghost packets apart from your average idle packets. I also want to find a way to access the hidden partition in real time and see what gets cashed to it if possible and if any. 

this is going to be fun  :Big Grin:

----------


## tec0

What i did; 

Installed OS without any other software including drivers. Disabled updates left system to idol. 

Day 1 4 hour idol while connected to the internet > 2mb up 300kb down packets was encrypted  (rounded numbers)
Day 2 4 hour idol while connected to the internet > 1mb up 150kb down packets was encrypted  (rounded numbers)
Day 3 4 hour idol while connected to the internet > 0 data up 0 data down "only connection packets was found" 

Conclusion with updates disabled something is stalking and it wasn't any 3rd party software "not even a antivirus"

----------


## Mike C

Came across this handy little utility that others might find helpful in removing the Windows 10 update irritation.  It also features a monitor facility that warns when Microsoft tries to renew its efforts.

http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/201...ly-remove.html

Update:  Ran the utility this morning and everything seemed to work fine.  This afternoon had a blue-screen crash.  Not too sure that it was related to the utility or not, but just thought that I would issue a warning.

----------


## KelleyJames12

Please don't upgrade a Sony Vaio running windows 8.1 to Windows 10 as it comprehensively bricks it!.. Warnings on the Sony Vaio web site say do not upgrade.

----------


## Neville Bailey

> Please don't upgrade a Sony Vaio running windows 8.1 to Windows 10 as it comprehensively bricks it!.. Warnings on the Sony Vaio web site say do not upgrade.


I've successfully upgraded two Sony Vaio laptops from Windows 7 to Windows 10, although I first had to remove all the Sony bloatware before doing so.

Both laptops have been running on Windows 10 without issues for a number of months now.

----------


## Electrode

> I've successfully upgraded two Sony Vaio laptops from Windows 7 to Windows 10, although I first had to remove all the Sony bloatware before doing so.
> 
> Both laptops have been running on Windows 10 without issues for a number of months now.


Do you have any privacy concerns regarding the use of Windows 10? It appears to be a way to push advertisement to your desktop environment and gather sensitive data about the user. What are your findings personally?

----------


## Desert Man

I came across this article and thought those members better versed on this topic than I am may want to comment: 
http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows...metry-secrets/

----------


## Gaynor

I'm one of the people who has not upgraded. I have Windows 8.1 and frankly am still learning my way around that. I think we are going to be forced to upgrade sooner or later though. Anybody have thoughts on what will happen if I don't upgrade?

----------


## HR Solutions

I have just bought a new computer and put Windows 7 on it.

----------


## irneb

> I came across this article and thought those members better versed on this topic than I am may want to comment: 
> http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows...metry-secrets/


While all that "sounds" pretty good, what does it actually say? "We will take your info, and we 'promise' only to use it for reasons of making our operating system better." Why is there no opt-out on this? All other such things either require that you explicitly allow it every time (e.g. Linux bug reports) or that you may disable it entirely. My problem is that I DO NOT trust any of these companies ... Why do they need my contacts list? Why do they need my emails? Why do they need my data files? For telemetry purposes? Give me a break!!!! That's like the restaurant asking you to fill in your cell phone number "because we can then customize your next order" ... GO F#$%$% yourselves!

Just run into an issue myself - this damned thing: http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/754...iew/index.html I got it so a TV could show from my media server. Reasonable hardware for not "too" high a price. Intending to just start it and see how well it performs. Verdict:
Pretty useless out the box, W10 is only half-way installed. You need to link it to the internet so it can continue getting the rest, not to mention, you need to install Intel's driver downloads, as W10 doesn't find the graphics / bluetooth drivers on its own (WTF).While the specs are pretty high for this sort of thing (way beyond a Raspberry I have doing the same thing very well), W10 consumes EVERYTHING. The 32bit W10 uses nearly 70% of the 2GB RAM, and the 32GB built-in flash is used up to around 18GB (around 12 to 14GB free) ... and that's just W10, no other programs except all the CR@P that MS forced down my throat (90% of which I WILL NEVER USE).Settings keep changing, e.g. turn off the MS torrent server through which they use your PC as a server to send others their updates ... an hour later an "update" is downloaded (which you cannot stop) and the setting is turned back on.Install some software (e.g. I install Kodi - the main reason for this thing), and WTF ... it uninstalls it because it's not MS certified! Battle, battle, battle finally get it to leave my programs the F alone!Same happens to CCleaner. At least after you've finally got it running you can set it to stop most of W10's background programs like Defender (which BTW you can also not uninstall or turn off). However, after each update (which happens daily at least) Defender is turned back on and all the settings (which you've specifically turned off) is also back on. I turned them off because the hardware cannot handle it, but every time an update happens the entire thing slows to a crawl. So every single day I have to open CCleaner and disallow those background CR@P from being started.Uninstall stuff to try and open more space ... I mean stuff like OneDrive, all those shareware "games" like Solitaire, etc. etc. Yeah, next update they're all back again!Set your router to disallow this thing to connect to the internet ... that's the ONLY solution to make it even remotely usable. Allow W10 to even sniff an outside connection, and your world crashes down on you.Which finally made me think ... bloody hell, let's just get rid of MSs stupid OS. I mean, I've got an OpenELEC on the raspberry working wonderfully with just 4GB of flash and 500MB of RAM. Fat chance!

Painful to even just get it to boot from something other than its built in 32GB flash storage. Over the usual UEFI problems, it has no way of getting into the motherboard setup (i.e. like the old boot-up BIOS menus). Only way to get there is to make use of W10's "recovery" feature which has an option to open the boot menu. Easiest way I found was to use UBootIn to make a USB stick to boot properly - it modifies Windows's boot settings so yu can choose to boot from USB from there (other stuff like Yumi simply don't work at all, sorry since that would allow me to much faster try all sorts of other OSs). And once you finally get an external USB to boot up you realize that all of its hardware (while being way inferior to most of the stuff you could get several years ago, e.g. only N based wireless, bluetooth 4 not 5, Atom CPU from 2 years ago) are made so that drivers are only available for W10 (not even W8.1 or W7, never mind some Linux). Had to get a large microSD (64GB) so I could run Clonezilla to copy W10 off as backup so I could install something else. Very glad I did that, because I "had" to replace it to even get this thing to work at all.

I even found someone who made a specialized version of Ubuntu for the previous model (meant for W8.1) with all the drivers pre-packaged. That don't work either. I even tried installing W7 and W8.1 ... same issue with drivers. I.e. this thing is W10 and W10 only ... you're not "allowed" to do anything else, or rather you're forced into it because they actively disallow other stuff from working on it.

Do some research, Intel sells this same thing with Ubuntu pre-installed. Only then they reduce all the hardware, only 1GB RAM, only an 8GB flash. But obviously they change the firmware on that so the standard drivers actually "work".

Conclusion: Don't get this ... it's a tie in to MS, that's all it is. You'd be better off buying the cheaper (and due to the ability to install a much less bloated OS than W10 faster) Amazon Fire TV or Google Chromecast, or even the Roku Streaming Stick.

 A huge amount of extra hardware, just so W10 may slightly work. And no way to even try to get something to replace it. W10 makes it nearly useless as the hardware (while being better than similar Linux based stuff) is simply inadequate for W10 - no more than one other program using no more than around 500MB of RAM to be run at any one time (else the thing just dies). I can run Kodi with it's UPNP server, web server, connected to a MySQL database to sync all of my media display devices so that all of them know which shows I've already seen, which I've only watch halfway and from where to continue, etc, etc. while watching an HD movie from something much lower on the food chain, but because of W10 this thing cannot do such.

----------


## Desert Man

> I'm one of the people who has not upgraded. I have Windows 8.1 and frankly am still learning my way around that. I think we are going to be forced to upgrade sooner or later though. Anybody have thoughts on what will happen if I don't upgrade?


I'm in the same boat as you.
Not being an IT expert or anywhere close to that, I seem to think we have one of 3 choices:
Get Windows 7 to replace Windows 8.1 (Not sure how long Win 7 will be supported though)
Get Linux (something I am completely unfamiliar with)
Apple Mac 

Hopefully a user friendly solution for lesser knowledgeable mortals such as I will be found sooner rather than later

----------


## Desert Man

I am thinking of upgrading to windows 10 home (for free) as I am currently on Windows 8.1 home and then doing a further upgrade to Windows 10 Pro for the privacy and security benefits that the Home version does not offer.

Windows 10 Home Vs Windows 10 Pro: What are the differences?

While Windows 10 Home is focused firmly on the consumer, Windows 10 Pro is more for power-users, and those running small to medium businesses. This can be seen in the advanced security features found in the Pro package.

BitLocker has been an integral part of the professional level Windows operating systems since Vista. This encryption software allow security conscious users to fully secure their drives from potential hackers. In Windows 10 Pro Microsoft has made some fine adjustments to the service. 

‘With BitLocker,’ explains Joe Belfiore, the Corporate Vice President of Microsoft’s Operating Systems Group, ‘the end user  faces an all or nothing decision for the entire drive to be encrypted, and it doesn’t provide for very much flexibility in the way files move around. We’re solving those problems.’ 

The new iteration of BitLocker allows users to encrypt individual files and keep them alongside unencrypted ones.  Plus they can now be used in the same way on USB sticks, improving the way in which files can be shared between those with the proper clearance to read them.

As you would expect from a Pro version there is also support for Remote Desktops, virtualisation, Group Policy Management, and access to the Windows 10 Business Store. Microsoft also lists the ability to join Azure Active Directory, with a single sign-on to cloud hosted apps, plus support for joining a domain, Assigned Access 8.1, Enterprise Data Protection, and Windows Update for Business which Microsoft claims will reduce management costs.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/feature/w...rence-3618710/

----------


## Dave A

So it seems somewhere between yesterday and today is the moment in history when if you're on Automatic Updates on Windows 7, you're going to get automatically updated to Windows 10.

I've just had to block all our computers that access our accounting system from the update as apparently QuickBooks Enterprise 2014 is not compatible with Windows 10.

----------


## HR Solutions

Dave - how do i switch off automatic updates for windows to windows 10 ?

----------


## IanF

I turn off all automatic updates, then wait for Nod32 to tell me to update. Just make sure there is nothing for W10 in those updates.

----------


## HR Solutions

I have also turned off automatic updates, but I'm getting the "upgrade to windows 10" pop up every morning on a few of our computers - I was was trying to kill this flipped pop up

----------


## IanF

> I have also turned off automatic updates, but I'm getting the "upgrade to windows 10" pop up every morning on a few of our computers - I was was trying to kill this flipped pop up


Let me know when you find the solution.

----------


## Dave A

> I have also turned off automatic updates, but I'm getting the "upgrade to windows 10" pop up every morning on a few of our computers - I was was trying to kill this flipped pop up


As I recall, there should be a "Do not show me this again" tick box in the notification.

----------


## Chrisjan B

Try this:
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/201...ly-remove.html

----------


## profgary

I agree with you Chrisjan. I have installed Gwx Control panel a couple of months ago and I got rid of Microsoft's harassment. NO more pop-ups, NO more mention of Windows 10. The link I used http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...rol_panel.html - same program as your link.

----------


## irneb

Yep, that GWX (and similar) is a definite MUST to prevent MS from installing its malware without you even noticing.

Just in: Microsoft accused of Windows 10 upgrade 'nasty trick'

And then (as usual) the next day: Microsoft U-turn on 'nasty trick' pop-up

We've seen this before haven't we?

----------


## irneb

Woman wins $10000 judgment against Microsoft for forced Windows 10 upgrade

And so it begins. Sounds a lot like the Vista fiasco. Wonder when the "free *down*grades" are going to roll out.

----------


## EAB

I am not an IT guy, but from personal experience I would say stay away from it. Had to format and reload everything after W10 installed.

----------


## polpak

Last week upgraded a friend of a friends exceeding slow and sluggish Windows 7 computer,  to Linux openSUSE Leap 42.1 (x86_64) 64-bit.

Able to recover almost all of every document and image for her. 

She is very happy, with my friend for asking self to do it,  as she feels it now runs at light speed in comparison, able to do everything she previously was doing faster,  and the software was all free ;-)  



.

----------


## irneb

I think a lot more people are going to move to that sort of arrangement. Either Linux (for those on a budget) or Apple.

Again, MS shows just how they can make all their customers very unhappy: http://www.pcworld.com/article/31003...ry-update.html

And the lawsuit floodgates are squeaking open it seems: http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft...e-upgrade-push

----------


## irneb

Oh! Blind hell! Just got round to reading this too: http://www.theverge.com/2016/7/27/12...s-10-uwp-steam

So then, for most, the only reason to stay with Windows (i.e. because of gaming being "better" there) is going out the window too. What reason does anyone (at least on average) have left for staying with such an operating system? You can already run most of Steam's games in Linux, and for those which you can't there's always Wine/PlayOnLinux.

----------


## ians

Going into 2020 ...looks like i will have 2 laptops no longer supported by windows.

I am still running XP pro on my netbook and now my office laptop has windows 7 which will no longer be supported... come jan 2020 (that just sounds so cool 2020  :Smile: )

Bought a new laptop for my daughter which has windows 10 ...we chose the one we did because it offered free microsoft free for 1 year... a month later a message pops up ...please not e your session will expire in 24 hours... please pay xyz ... the sad part is the new laptop is slower than my 1986 netbook with windows xp  :Frown:  ... maybe i nee dto take it to someone in the know who can make sure it is setup ptoperly.

any suggestions ...for us suckers enjoying windows 7?

----------


## Blurock

I can only come to the conclusion that MS are a bunch of money grabbers not interested in their customers.
Having installed Office 365 in January, I was forced to purchase a new subscription on 1st Aug so that I could get access to my files. Now I get a new message that my subscription has expired and my licence is no longer valid. Bunch of wankers!  :Mad:

----------


## ians

Reeding forums and stuff ...seems people are moving over to linux and apple... i have 2 iphones and an ip and very happy with them ...my iphone 5 is still working ...the only reason i had to upgrade to an iphone 5s ...to get ios updates... sounds like MS...money money money ...someone offered me more than i paid for my iphone 5s to buy my iphone 5 in mint condition... maybe it will become a vintage  :Smile: 

How bad could it be moving over ?... i read your PC with increase in speed by a huge margin ...you wouldnt even need to install and SSD to improve the speed... which seems to be a must if you go to windows 10 and it clearly states in the upgrade that it is NOT advisable to upgrade an old laptop.

I hear you cant save files etc like you could on windows 7 and before ...so they have you by the balls and some... pay ...pay ... pay.

----------


## New Perspective studio

be prepared for alot of confusion. First off you will need a very large amount of data avail to you windows ten absolutely nails it with background tasks and content updates ( which constantly go wrong jsut do a google search), You can adjust settings but this still doesn't really reduce the load. Secondly space. Windows ten eats a ton of space and even stores a version of your previous os after a update to roll back on ( they probably knew it was unstable after 8 id be nervous too ). You can go ahead and delete these but you just never quite get the space back. third speed. If you are running a older system then internet speed and computing speed will drop badly as this operating system is significantly heavier than 7 on resources. You can skip eight as the comment above alludes to 8 was just full of issues. 

I am on 7 still and until i have no other choice i will switch to mac ( and i spent half my life telling people overblown mac is ) that is how much I hate windows 10. Dont do it Dave. 7 was their end game.

----------


## Blurock

Any advice offered on alternatives for windows? Cost and operating efficiency is obviously important.

----------


## polpak

In 2007 self started with linux to understand how it worked,  so obtained four CD versions to try.  Each was pleasing,  self found easiest for self was openSUSE.  

When decided to switch my business across decided to use the (Commercial) SUSE (acknowledge excellent support they provided) for my first years learning linux. 

Later decided switch back to openSUSE where assist in trying out, provide feedbacks, with help from those developing newer applications which became part of (Commercial) SUSE. 




#         NON-Commercial  (FREE) which am familiar with            ; - ) 

openSUSE Forums  https://forums.opensuse.org/ 
openSUSE Documentation   https://doc.opensuse.org/ 



Ubuntu Documentation  https://help.ubuntu.com/
Ubuntu Tutorials     https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/
Ubuntu Forums     https://ubuntuforums.org/
Ubuntu Local Teams  https://loco.ubuntu.com/
           Example  Ubuntu-ZA   https://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-za/ 



No particular order, other sites to help learn    

https://www.theforumsa.co.za/
https://stackexchange.com/
https://www.linux.com/what-is-linux/ 
https://www.linuxquestions.org/



.

----------

New Perspective studio (25-Nov-19)

----------


## polpak

Which version ? 

Discussing which linux version - Commercial or Free,  frequently results in ongoing debates.  


Find *version you are comfortable with*, stick to it until you understand it, so can update, upgrade, and *know where to find solutions* to any problems arising. 


Before try another version, be sure your regular Backing-Ups to elsewhere all work successfully to recover the level you need ! 





Linux commands *tar* and *scp*  for make it easier for various /home/username/  folders  to be be compressed, then copied to other computers,hard-drives locations so available to recover essential data.  

When assisting others making switch to linux was able create compressed archive of all their MS-W personal data, then recover most of it into their new linux version /home folders.  







> Multi-booting
> Multi-booting is the act of installing multiple operating systems on a computer, and being able to choose which one to boot. The term dual-booting refers to the common configuration of specifically two operating systems. Multi-booting may require a custom boot loader.


 Wikipedia explanation Multi-booting      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-booting

Be sure you understand Boot, GRUB, Partitions, Multiple-Boot-Installations as these BEST done into a newly created empty Partitions !  


Admit extremely nervous first time tried this, managed OK, while over decades lost everything several times using Microsoft Windows, once with O/S2, once with Linux. 







#  COMMERCIAL examples linux 

#  Ubuntu 
https://ubuntu.com/pricing



> Plans & pricing
> Open Infrastructure support and security
> 
> Critical security fixes, telephone support and legal assurance.




#  Red Hat Enterprise Linux
    Red Hat Enterprise  https://www.redhat.com/en/technologi...terprise-linux
    Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux 


# SUSE Linux Enterprise  
  SUSE Linux Enterprise  https://www.suse.com/products/server/
  Wikipedia article:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUSE_Linux_Enterprise



*
    Cape Town, Durban and Johannesburg
    255 Rivonia Road
    Morningside Wedge Office Park
    Morningside, South Africa 2057
    Tel: +27-11-322-8300
infosa@suse.com*


extract from  SUSE Linux Enterprise  https://www.suse.com/products/server/



> _
> Products
> SUSE Linux Enterprise Server
> 
> Increase availability, efficiency, & innovation
> 
>     For x86-64
>     For IBM Power
>     For Arm
> ...






z

----------

Blurock (18-Nov-19)

----------


## ians

I got to a point where i was going to throw this laptop out the window ... 500 gig hard drive full as slow as f^&k ...everytime i wanted to open a picture or download even a small file ..." sorry no space"  phoned a friend who gave me a program to download windirstat ... downloaded it and now what it gave me a picture of stuff ...but who knows what i was suppose to do with it.

then i made an even bigger mistake ... i loaded a CCTV package to with with Dahua products (cameras and DVR's) not being technical minded ...i loaded the program icluding the DVR portion ...which resulted in it stroing footage ... i figued it out and removed the program and reloaded without the dvr portion.

then back to the same issues ... after months and months of removing every single photo ...video ... program which wasnt required on the laptop ... still within days it would be "full" i resorted to swiching off at the power button which would give me 35 meg and if found any other stuff to remove i would do it.

Then i needed to download a PLC program ...i got desperate ... searched youtube until i found a suggestion ...CCleaner ... dwonloaded it ran it and imagine that 390 GIG free space ...so wher edid all that space come from ... "WINDOWS TEMP FILES" ... YES ... 390 GIGS WORTH OF THEM. 

Because windows kept threatening that winodws 7 was no longer supported ...i decided to start searching for  "FREE"  WINDOWS 10 ... i found it ... you got windows download ... make sure your windows 7 is registered and 12 hours ... ten thousand five million six hundred thousand and ten updates my computer switched on again.

So my question after all that ... what is the catch ...nothing in life if for free... is my computer gona work ... is there some hidden spyware ... has my computer now become part of the new world order ... have i just F&*ked up or will it be fine?

Its been a long night ...i need to go sleep.

----------


## ians

Imagine that ...the very first thing that pops up as i open an XL spreadsheet ... office 2010 support ends in October  :Frown: 

10 years has become the technical lifespan.

----------


## adrianh

> Imagine that ...the very first thing that pops up as i open an XL spreadsheet ... office 2010 support ends in October 
> 
> 10 years has become the technical lifespan.


I still run Office 2007 on my Windows 10 machine and XP on 3 of my machines.

----------


## Justloadit

> Imagine that ...the very first thing that pops up as i open an XL spreadsheet ... office 2010 support ends in October 
> 
> 10 years has become the technical lifespan.


Who cares about the support. I only use maybe 5% of its functions, so I do not need all the other unnecessary support they claim I need.
In other words it will work for as long as the OS allows it to work.

I am still using a DOS program on my XP pro PC, because the new replacement program requires a rocket scientist to navigate through the most basic functions, or maybe you can not teach an old dog new tricks  :Smile: . The fact there is no support does not bar the functionality of the software. I have 4 'old' PCs ready to take over when ever one fails, so that I can continue using the DOS program.
I still have an office PC from 2000 with XP pro running daily. Every couple of days I have to switch off, as there is some issue with a WIN XP handler, and the PC hangs up. One day I will reload the XP.

----------


## ians

Thank goodness i do still have my old netbook which has XP pro ....bought in 2006 and still has the same battery ... ok it only lasts 3 hours compared to the 6hrs when i bought it ...but it works for all my test equipment... I suppose i could run a virtual xp on wondows 10 ... nah too much hassle.

Everything was going well until i started going through all the programs and updating drivers etc.

I have a gmail account which is for one of my side line facebook pages which generates funds for the odd good ol captains ... i didnt think someone would actully want to steal the email address ... what are the chances ... a million to one ... going through the google accounts ...i found one is missing.

So i do a bit of scratching to find someone has the same name ...sells a simliar product ...he felt the need to steal it ... so i sent an email to the address and he responded to confirm he had stolen it ... and there is nothing i can do.

a bit of an eye opener for me ...i didnt realise it was so easy access them and take over and email address.

There are more secure measures in place since 2016 (probably because of the same thing that happened to mine) like 2 step verification ... using another email address and a phone number ...if you have an gmail account and dont want anyone to access it ...make sure you update your email address and telephone number ... i didnt use my current gamil address for the notification if there is strange activity  so it seems that because i didnt setup my account with the 2 step verification and didnt use my phone numeber ...he just made out like he had forgotten the password and got gmail to send info to his phone number changed the password and now i no longer have access to the email account. 

My concern is the information shared in emails with customers ... i suppose gmail is more for individuals looking for a way to communicate ...not when you need a secure platform to exchange important bussiness information. 

I can only asume this is what happened ...if  anyone in the know better let me know.

by the way you looking for a spam email address ... customrodracks@gmail.com ...please feel free to send as much crap as you like the more the better.

----------


## wptech

Can we still upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7 for free?

----------


## ians

> Can we still upgrade to Windows 10 from Windows 7 for free?


I did ... apparently so long as your windows 7 was licensed ... mine is working.

----------


## wptech

> I did ... apparently so long as your windows 7 was licensed ... mine is working.


Thanks. When did you do it?

----------


## ians

> Thanks. When did you do it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGN4aXCuGuU

----------


## Xplosiv

> Imagine that ...the very first thing that pops up as i open an XL spreadsheet ... office 2010 support ends in October 
> 
> 10 years has become the technical lifespan.


I've been using LibreOffice for the last 10 years. Not a power user, so it works for what I need. It's open-source and free to use.
Two downsides:
1) Updates are not automatic (I only update for a major version change)
2) It's default save is to the open-source format. You have to "Save As" and select your required format (.doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, etc.)

Very similar to Microsoft Office but not as powerful.
https://libreoffice.org/

----------

polpak (17-Oct-21)

----------


## kidr

i think windows just suck!! linux is the best

----------

polpak (17-Oct-21)

----------


## Justloadit

> i think windows just suck!! linux is the best


99.9% of the population is not a programmer, and setting Linux up requires technical know how.
And if there is an issue, you require technical know to clear.
Sometimes you have to design a product to make the user life easier, and this is where Windows has managed to get the operation right.
You do not have to be a computer boffin to work windows.
With out any training, I can do the following :-
A mouse and a keyboard and I can type a letter.
A mouse and a keyboard and I can set up a simple spreadsheet.

With Linux, I have to learn the operating system and know my way around the system to make it work.
Have a printer, now go hunting for a compatible driver. Not so easy for a computer illiterate user.
Most users use the computer for basic tasks as writing a letter, spreadsheet and email.

For a successful product, you have to design for your target market, and Windows has done that.

----------


## polpak

Justloadit writes: "_ 99.9% of the population is not a programmer, and setting Linux up requires technical know how.
And if there is an issue, you require technical know to clear._ "

As a user am NOT so technical.

15 years ago, for my first few months certainly was nervous, soon realized was able to do everything I needed do. 

Linux is not MS-W, so there is some learning, of this need only learn a few things to begin, other learning builds over time. 



Self found using short simple terminal (like DOS prompt)  commands taught me a lot, as soon was relaxing doing almost all my updates, upgrades, installations and removals, this as I found terminal learning much easier to remember.  

Linux is not so hard to use, to learn, and with considerable savings :-)



Consider doing an install of ubuntu [longer term support version 20.04]  onto a spare computer with empty hard drive partition (50 GB or more) and try it out. 



BTW just installed Win-10 for one of my relations...

.

----------


## Justloadit

> Justloadit writes: "_ 99.9% of the population is not a programmer, and setting Linux up requires technical know how.
> And if there is an issue, you require technical know to clear._ "
> 
> As a user am NOT so technical.
> 
> 15 years ago, for my first few months certainly was nervous, soon realized was able to do everything I needed do. 
> 
> Linux is not MS-W, so there is some learning, of this need only learn a few things to begin, other learning builds over time. 
> 
> ...


Just a point, if you wish to reply to a specific thread, and quote the thread , or parts of a thread, click on the icons at the bottom right hand side of the thread box, where it says "Reply with a quote", you can delete text not required, just do not mess with the text within the [] as this sets up the thread display format

Yes again, 99% of the population don't care about learning the intricacies of Linux/Ubunto.
I will use an example, I enjoy the scones from a bakery, I will eat them regularly, however I could not be bothered or really want to know how to make the scones, I just pitch up buy one eat it and enjoy it.

I want to type a letter, I do not want to spend an hour trying to figure out why this morning why the program does not open properly for some reason.
Believe me this happens often with IDE systems and upgrades. 

Make no mistake I do partially understand the systems, this is the reason that I understand users.
I have to deal with them everyday. If you want a successful product, you have to first design the interface around the user, and taking notice that the user is clueless with the operation.

----------

Dave A (17-Oct-21)

----------


## tec0

Right as someone that knows IT here is my take and i invite any IT professional to read this. 

When you boot Linux it looks good, feels fast and for the most part installing apps is easy simple and fast. 

Drivers is buggy but supported all good. Most printers will work with Linux again all good. For Windows must have functionality a VM is a good solution depending on the work load.  

Here is the thing, i run 4 servers in my home. i do a LOT of work and a lot of file types are NOT supported on Linux. It does not matter what replacement software i use, what software is compatible. Some pieces of software is simply a must have. For me CorelDRAW is a must have because it exports stuff to a format that my tools that are OLD AS HELL can still read. 

Considering a new tool cost about 4 million Rand i am NOT buying a new one just so that i can run Linux. That would be STUPID as HELL because i will have a 4 million Rand loan to pay in a market that is volatile and crash happy. So my old tools that i got second hand *and had to rebuild from the ground up* must do the job. This means some of my tools run WinXP and yes i even have a Win95 PC running in 2021. Why because i am not buying new tools. The tools i got i got for less then R20k back in the late 1990s and early 2000 rebuild them and here we are. Now my math might be doggy but R20k is a lot less then 4million... i think.. not sure.. 

So before we sing Linux, Win10 or Win11 or cry over the death of WinXp and Win7 we must understand that there are people like myself that needs stuff to just work. 

Now to be clear i run a lot of Linux computers. i have servers with at least 5 Linux VMs on it running currently dealing with file sharing and other important functions. So it is not that i am anti Linux. No... I am for the user. What ever the user needs the user needs and if it is a mix of Linux, Windows and even Apple "heaven help you with Apple" Getting these devices to talk to each other is a nightmare specially if some of them run WIN95 NOT WIN98 because there is no compatible driver after WIN95. 

Today 2021 i run a windows95 PC yes a PC that i build in 1994 updated it to win95 in 1996 or 97 i can't remember, BUT still works to this day with its 133Mhz CPU S4 GPU and 10Mb network card and USB expansion card "with a driver from hell" It does its job. 

So is Linux good? YES. Is Windows good? YES. Is apple good? YES. Is android OS for PC good? YES. All of them work in a network, all of them have functions they need to preform, all of them do what they are suppose to do. 


The point i am making a PC is a tool, like any other tool it has requirements and limitations. It is up to you as the user to identify the use-case and get the tool to work.

It is for the same reason why massive companies spend millions on Java development and refuse to go over to any other development platform. Why? Because it is simply to expensive to change/start over. It is simply more cost effective to keep the old stuff rolling along.

----------

Dave A (17-Oct-21)

----------

