# General Business Category > Business Finance Forum >  Entering the JSE

## gordo

HI guys

Im really interested in buying stock on the jse and i have made myself an account with standard bank to do just that. . .Problem is that im not sure what stock to buy and whem to buy and sell and stuff like that. do any of you buy and sell stock and can maybe give me a push in the right direction? i would appreciate it

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## daveob

Hi Gordo

Do you have any software that lets you look at the trends, historical data, technical indicators, etc ?

Or are you wanting to base your decisions on fundamental info ?

Are you looking at equities, unit trusts, warrants, CFDs or Spreads ?

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## AmithS

Also are you looking at trading as opposed to investing

i.e. buying and selling on a daily\weekly basis to make quick gains or buying to keep for a few years?

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## rfnel

Gordo, how does this Standard Bank account of yours work?  I'm interested in trading shares myself, so I'll be watching this thread with interest.

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## daveob

Gordo is most likely using : https://securities.standardbank.co.za/ost/

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rfnel (18-Oct-11)

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## gordo

> Hi Gordo
> 
> Do you have any software that lets you look at the trends, historical data, technical indicators, etc ?
> 
> Or are you wanting to base your decisions on fundamental info ?
> 
> Are you looking at equities, unit trusts, warrants, CFDs or Spreads ?


No dave im hoping that standard bank will provide me with the trend,historical data etc .

It looks like you really know what you are doing in terms of the stock market. Ive been reading up on it but its not the same as actually 

doing it yourself. So as soon as my account is set up (it takes 2 days) then im gonna get busy. Im gonna have to read up on equities, unit trusts, warrants,CFDs

and spreads, cos I dont know much about it. Taking it slow but I'll get there sooner or later.

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## gordo

@rfnel  I went onto my internet banking account with standard bank and went to the auto share invest tab. registered myself and bam, done. but im not too sure how it works yet and how well it works because I gotta wait 48 hours before my account is made completely.

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## gordo

> Also are you looking at trading as opposed to investing
> 
> i.e. buying and selling on a daily\weekly basis to make quick gains or buying to keep for a few years?


Im definately gonna do swing trading,that seems more suitable to my current situation.

i.e buying and selling on a weekly basis.

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## Dave A

> Im definately gonna do swing trading,that seems more suitable to my current situation.



Aaah. A gambler.

Good luck then  :Smile:

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## Pap_sak

Good luck Gordo!

My wife and myself both use absa stockbrokers - at the time the offered the best deal as long as you made 4 trades a year. you will need fairly deep pockets to trade weekly and make money - because of trade fees (buying and selling) I am guessing your trades will need to be at least R20k per trade or more to make that worth while.

moneyweb.co.za is a great website to do research

my wife has done well (over a year) with Pioneer, SAB, Shoprite and Capitec - around 20 - 25% over the year (plus dividends!!)

I, err, go for more risky shares (besides capitec) and am sitting on even.

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gordo (25-Oct-11)

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## gordo

Thank you so much papsak. That is the only website I have found that gives you that hard facts, others just beat around the bush. this is gonna make things much easier for me.

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## gordo

i been monitoring mr price shares lately, and i think its a good investment. but the fact is that you cant go into the stock market with only like a grand. the broker fees kill you. you have to enter with like 5 or 10 grand to really have a chance at making money. so for now im just watching from the sidelines.

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## jjdewet

Hi Guys, 

I just joined the forum and started fooling around when I found this thread...
I am a trader working at brokerage house in Pretoria. I'll list a few usefull websites below. 

One important thing is that when you want to invest (6 moths + investment horizon) trading shares are the best. When you want to trade frequently, the cost of trading in shares will kill you. Using SSF (Single stock futures) or CFD's is the best for trading in the short term. SSF en CFD's are derivative products and are much more riskier than trading in the underlying share.

Usefull websites:

www.sharenet.co.za
www.moneyweb.co.za
www.cnbc.com
www.bloomberg.com
www.themarket.co.za
www.tradingeducators.com

I can also suggest a book by Edwin Lefevre - Reminiscences of a stock operator (based on the life on Jessie Livermore - Regarded as the best trader ever)

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Dave A (08-Nov-11), gordo (08-Nov-11), Mark Atkinson (09-Nov-11), Pap_sak (09-Nov-11)

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## gordo

thanx jjdewet, out of interest, how do you become a broker? what do you need to study?

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## jjdewet

> thanx jjdewet, out of interest, how do you become a broker? what do you need to study?


B.Com would be preferable. The there are a lot of exams that has to be written to become a registered trader on the JSE. You can find details regarding this (RPE Exams) at www.saifm.co.za

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## Mark Atkinson

Jjdewet - what sort of starting "capital" should one have should he wish to begin investing in the stock market?  Both for long term investments as well as short term trading. 

Also, what are the broker fees like?

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## jjdewet

> Jjdewet - what sort of starting "capital" should one have should he wish to begin investing in the stock market?  Both for long term investments as well as short term trading. 
> 
> Also, what are the broker fees like?


Starting capital for investing doesn't have to be a certain amount. But it is important to remember that there is a difference between trading (speculating) en investing. If you invest, you can buy shares on a monthly basis using a debit order, which is much the same as a retirement annuity, only, you get to decide where to invest it. Satrix is a good example of that. Starting this at an early stage, will provide you with some capital later on in your life for investing. 

For trading, determining the amout of starting capital is very difficult, and will vary. I have always thought with R20,000.00 you can do something, but you can't really. Even R100,000.00 is not enough. The important thing here is Risk management and patience.

Brokerage fees vary and is usually charged as a % of exposure. So if you buy R20,000.00 worth of a share, fees will be a % of that. Ex: fees at 1% will amount to R200.00 in costs. This is only the brokerage fee. There are also a lot of other charges like STRATE, Investor protection levy, STT and VAT. 

Brokerage fees vary from 0.8% - 1.5% maybe more depending on the broker.

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Mark Atkinson (09-Nov-11)

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## Mark Atkinson

Thanks jjdewet. 

When investing in something like Satrix, what is the risk involved? Can i choose to make payments as and when I have the cash or does it have to be a regular payment?

Also, what is the return like in a long term investment in comparison to, say, a fixed deposit/money market account?

Do you get dividend payouts from investments like Satrix?

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## jjdewet

Satrix40 is an index that replicates the Top40 index - which is waht people call "Blue chips". The only risk you have is that of the index going to zero, in which case you loose all your money. It is not a geared investment, so you can only loose what you invest.
You don't have to invest on a regular basis, you can buy it as when you have the money. 
It also pays dividends.

Here is the link : http://www.satrix.co.za/products/satrix40.aspx

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## Pap_sak

> i been monitoring mr price shares lately, and i think its a good investment. but the fact is that you cant go into the stock market with only like a grand. the broker fees kill you. you have to enter with like 5 or 10 grand to really have a chance at making money. so for now im just watching from the sidelines.


Mr Price is a decent share, and yes you do need to put down around R5K per trade to make it work, and even then, it should be a long term (5+) years before thinking about selling.

It it worth it. hell yeah, but only for the long term ie retirement.

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## Pap_sak

Some great info there jjdewet - and satrix is a great way for guys to get into the market with minimum fees, as compared to unit trusts - even though maybe as not as focused - the savings on fees should make that up in most cases.

I do not agree with your 20K, and 100k minimum amounts though. I think as long as your trade is around R5K and you investing for the long term (10 years and longer) you are fine. I DO agree if it's a year or less though. But, as you say, it's whether you are speculating or investing.

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## jjdewet

Thats true. When investing, you can start with basically nothing...but fees will eat a lot of capital. When you want to be a cowboy and trade derivatives, you will need a lot of cash, and have a 95% to blow it...




> Some great info there jjdewet - and satrix is a great way for guys to get into the market with minimum fees, as compared to unit trusts - even though maybe as not as focused - the savings on fees should make that up in most cases.
> 
> I do not agree with your 20K, and 100k minimum amounts though. I think as long as your trade is around R5K and you investing for the long term (10 years and longer) you are fine. I DO agree if it's a year or less though. But, as you say, it's whether you are speculating or investing.

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## Faan

Up to about two years ago there was someone in the Free State who would watch the markets and then advise you when to buy and at what price and sell as well. He said that you could start with as little as R2000 and then buy a particular share on his recommendation and put it back into the market at the original price plus 10%.  The 10% would cover all costs and give you a profit of 6%.  If this is repeated 90 times R2000 could become R1m.  He stopped doing this when the market became too volatile and he did not want to put other people at risk with his recommendations. 

I have no doubt that over the long term the stock market would give a better yield than what any of the banks could give.  Over the short term the whole thing becomes much more riskier and you have to have a good heart to invest / play on the stock exchange.  It is easy to start the morning with a nice profit and within a half hour have a loss. 

Someone who operates a business at www.world-focus.co.za has a system (program) they sell and you would become an investing member and they would then either email or sms early morning what you have to buy and at the same time tell what you have to sell. (I would appreciate some comments on this)

My own feeling is that unless you have someone who knows the markets very well and can interpret all the relevant graphs you have to make very sure that you have enough knowledge yourself to do short term investments.

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