# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  The arms deal corruption issue

## Dave A

Our first clue that there might have been corruption/bribes involved with the arms deal was when Patricia de Lille dropped the bombshell in 1999.

It's now 2008 and the case against Zuma has just bing hit with what is effectively a reset button. If it is to continue, the decision to press charges needs to start all over again. 

But I'm wondering if the will to keep going still exists within the NPA.

Is this whole arms deal corruption issue going to end up being just swept under the carpet?

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## Dave A

> If South Africa were a football club it would be heading for relegation, as the country continues its plunge down the corruption league table compiled by Transparency International. 
> 
> Transparency International (TI) is an international anti-corruption organisation that produces an annual index of perceived levels of public sector corruption. Countries are scored on a scale from zero (highly corrupt) to 10 (no corruption). 
> 
> Long-standing log leaders Denmark, New Zealand and Sweden continue to share the top spot this year, all scoring 9,3. Somalia retains the bottom ranking at 1,0.
> 
> This year South Africa scored just 4,9, compared with 5,8 for Botswana and 5,5 for Mauritius. In 1996 South Africa scored a respectable 5,7, but this had dropped to 5,0 by 2000. Nigeria has climbed from a dismal score of 0,7 in 1996 to 2,7 this year.
> 
> Patrick Berg, TI's programme coordinator for Southern Africa, says the index is based on a survey that asks people how far they think they can conduct their personal and professional lives without falling victim to corruption. Most respondents are drawn from the ranks of business leaders and local representatives of international organisations. 
> ...


The survey was conducted before the ousting of Thabo Mbeki. But thinking about it - the desire to shut down the Scorpions was already sending out clear signals.

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## Dave A

The Scorpions may be doomed, but they're still doing their job.



> Striking back amid its death throes, the Scorpions unit launched massive, coordinated raids on Wednesday in what appears to be a final bid to lance the festering sore of the arms deal. 
> 
> The searches, carried out simultaneously at seven locations in three provinces, flowed from the Scorpionsâ belated corruption probe of defence multinational BAE Systems -- and the R1-billion in âcommissionsâ the company paid on the deal.
> 
> Investigators believe the commissions were partly designed to conceal bribes used to influence key decision-makers, including the late defence minister Joe Modise.
> full story from M&G here


It's quite a long story covering a lot of ground, but here is an extract that points to the smoking gun.



> In 1999 the South African government signed a R16-billion contract -- present value more than R30-billion -- with BAE and its Swedish partner, Saab, to buy BAE Hawk jet trainers and Saab Gripen fighters, representing half the value of the total arms deal.
> 
> Last year the M&G revealed that the SFO had obtained evidence that BAE had paid out roughly R1-billion in commissions on the SA deal.
> 
> Now the question at the centre of the Scorpions inquiry -- and the raids -- is why BAE paid huge commissions to two consultancies in particular: Hlongwane Consulting and Kayswell Services.
> 
> Hlongwane Consulting was incorporated in 1999 by then outgoing defence minister Joe Modiseâs adviser, Fana Hlongwane.
> 
> The SFO investigation has revealed that Hlongwane entered a consultancy agreement with BAE in 2002 on an annual retainer of Â£1-million (R15-million). In 2005 there was an agreement to pay $8-million (R80-million) as a settlement figure to Hlongwane in relation to âwork done on the Gripen projectâ.
> ...

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## Dave A

It is going to be interesting to see how our President responds to this one.



> Archbishop Desmond Tutu and former president FW de Klerk have written to President Kgalema Motlanthe to request that he establish an independent commission of inquiry into the arms deal. 
> 
> Motlanthe on Wednesday said he would comment on the request once he had replied to the Nobel Peace Prize laureates. 
> 
> Presidential spokesperson Thabo Masebe said Motlanthe had not yet had a chance to look at the letter.
> 
> "It will finally get to Pretoria and to the president in the next day or so. It would only be fair to comment once he has seen the letter and replied to former president De Klerk and Archbishop Tutu," said Masebe.
> 
> The two urged Motlanthe to draft the terms of reference of the commission to allow the "widest possible investigation into impropriety and corruption," reported the Star.
> ...

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Graeme (03-Dec-08)

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## Dave A

It looks like Schabir Shaik is still shaking change from the tree.



> Schabir Shaik has received a R5-million windfall from the state in terms of a "secret" agreement signed late in 2008 between his lawyer and the government.
> 
> In what is believed to be an unprecedented move, the National Director of Public Prosecutions (NDPP) has agreed to split the interest on Shaik's ill-gotten gains. 
> 
> Shaik is serving a 15-year sentence for his corrupt relationship with Jacob Zuma.
> 
> The Star has also established that Zuma's ex-financial adviser has not given up his fight to get back the R34-million confiscated from him and his Nkobi group of companies.
> 
> It emerged in papers filed with the Durban High Court this week that Shaik has applied to President Kgalema Motlanthe for the "reprieve and remission of the confiscated amounts".
> full story from IOL here

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## Dave A

Nothing unusual about the NPA deal with Shabir...




> The National Prosecuting Authority's (NPA) R5-million agreement with fraud convict Schabir Shaik was "normal", it said on Thursday. 
> 
> "The settlement between the NPA and Shaik is a normal one in civil litigation where disputes are often settled between the parties rather than litigated," NPA spokesperson Tlali Tlali said in a statement. 
> 
> "The [Asset Forfeiture Unit] settles disputes regularly after weighing up its prospects of success in court, the costs involved in the litigation and the extent to which it can devote its limited resources to litigating other matters," he said.
> 
> "In this matter, there was a relatively complex legal dispute about whether the AFU could claim interest on the amount of the confiscation order, the applicable interest rate and the date from which interest accrues.
> 
> "The AFU considered the fact that issues have not been litigated before, and would therefore have resulted in further litigation, which would have delayed the process for as much as another two years. 
> ...


Quite a cute way to force the State to meet in the middle - come up with an angle without precedent  :Whistling: 

Maybe I'm being silly here, but surely the mere fact that there is no precedent on this meant that the NPA *had* to proceed to get a legal ruling and set precedent. It's not just this case on the line. Now that the argument has been raised, the NPA is likely to face this argument again and again and again - especially as they have essentially caved this time round.

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## Dave A

Quite a lengthy article here posing the question who is delaying the Zuma corruption trial?

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## Dave A

> After a day of rumour running riot about the possibility that the prosecuting authority would drop the fraud, corruption and racketeering charges against the president of the African National Congress (ANC) Jacob Zuma, the NPA has let it be known that it has been supplied with additional information by Zuma's lawyers which has necessitated further investigation, verification and careful consideration. 
> 
> "The acting national director of public prosecutions held a further meeting at the NPA head office in Pretoria today with senior management and the team responsible for the prosecution of Mr Jacob Zuma in order to consider representations he [Zuma] has submitted to the NPA," said Tlali
> Tlali, the NPA spokesperson.
> 
> "The NPA is treating this process with utmost urgency it deserves. We will communicate the outcome of this process of consideration to Mr Zuma's lawyers as soon as a decision is in place."
> full story from M&G here


If for some reason the NPA decides not to continue with the prosecution, I foresee quite a debate about public interest if they don't publicly disclose the reasons.

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## garthu

Once again just to much cloak and dagger. If it's for real (and CLEAN!) then why hide it at all. Things seem to have found a way of leaking out recently so we will probably get to hear something anyway - a little unpopularity peeking out for the parties involved maybe?

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## wynn

Maybe he spilled the beans on Mbeki and Lekota???

 :Wink:

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## Dave A

My concern is that JZ blows the lid off the whole deal to the NPA, but the whole thing gets buried "in the interests of state security."

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## garthu

Wow Wynn, talk about hitting the nail on the head! I'll keep you mind as my political adviser when i join up  :Wink:

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## Dave A

What Zuma told the NPA.

I'm afraid if true, it is much as I suspected - all the top brass was either involved or aware of it. And Patrica de Lille was the only one with the character not to accept it.

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## insulin

I must say to all of you here are well informed individuals with a mentality of note! Really you are a clever lot. I agree with all of this up to appoint. Again I know that the UN United Nations is planning on a little party that will take shape starting now 2009 and will end 2015 if I am not mistaken. What is this party you may ask? Well the UN is planning on taking control of all the military systems within the UN. Thus every country that belongs to the UN will be asked to surrender their military system and allow the UN to control it.  

In return the UN will provide in part funding and training to all participants and in effect will create the largest military system the world has ever seen. United will take on a new meaning and then comes the preferred hardware suppliers! Imagine building equipment for a military system as big as this one!
I cannot say why UN is doing this... But it is a bit scary because they will effectively have the power to police the world literally. Perhaps all of this fits into the one world one order thing that has been showing its head since 1985?

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## duncan drennan

Two very interesting articles on this issue, Reasons not to charge Zuma unpacked and Fact: Zuma has a case to answer

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## insulin

I find it difficult to understand judgement in high profile cases like that of Zuma. However it is of note that Zuma have a lot power thus the dismantling of the scorpions. 

Then there is the âFreedom and security of the personâ Found in the Constitution Act of South Africa. You know the one that states that we are not to be deprived of freedom arbitrarily or without just cause! 

Point it out: Without just cause??? Now being known for criminal activities an nationally known to be less then truthful and a lot of things that is a bit sensitive may be considered a just cause. Frankly the justice system had enough on Zuma to take him down a long time ago. But didnât... Why?

I cannot answer that, but I do know that that little thing that I pointed out âWithout Just Causeâ was never used. Thus I lost faith in our Constitution. 

Then there is the little matter of the right to privacy. You know the one that states that everyone has the right to privacy. Did you know that in the 3 or 4 pointers they state like: The right not to have: their person or home searched, their property searched, their possessions seized or the privacy of their communications infringed. 

No-ware on the right to privacy is there a âWithout just causeâ If I am not mistaken that will make a search-warrant unconstitutional? Like I said I donât understand this part at all.  :Wink: 

Maybe someone can explain it but it comes down to this... there is not backdoor build into the right to privacy. Or there is and I am just stupid   :Embarrassment:

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## Dave A

The angle that "in the interests of state security" is not a reason not to prosecute is interesting. However, "in the public interest" is also very broad and subjective.

Those links also blow the lid off the "innocent until proven guilty" rhetoric that gets trotted out by the spin doctors.

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## insulin

All I can say is that the law is more complicated than making gold. Really I had a look at some of the ways it is explained and I cannot make heads or tails of anything. However to be clear it is the general point of view that some politicians is getting away with a lot. And if they can other rich individuals can and if that starts to become the norm then justice is failing us all.  :Fence:

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## Dave A

That sums it up pretty well, Insulin  :Thumbup:

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insulin (22-Mar-09)

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## Dave A

Two good reads while we wait for the NPA announcement.

The case against Jacob Zuma and then an insight into the forces in play.

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## Dave A

For anyone interested, here is the full NPA statement as to why they are not prosecuting Jacob Zuma.

For those who would prefer something shorter, here we go:



> The representations submitted by the legal representatives pertained to the following issues:
> 
> The substantive merits; 
> 
> The fair trial defences; 
> 
> The practical implications and considerations of continued prosecution; and 
> 
> The policy aspects militating against prosecution.
> ...


The statement then quotes numerous legal precedents and then transcripts of conversations that indicate abuse of process. This relates particularly to the *timing* of placing the charges against Zuma.

I don't think the precedents quoted do much to support the argument to drop the charges (in fact they seem to infer the exact opposite), but the transcripts certainly give evidence of partisan parties within the NPA and DSO - definitely not a healthy situation.

From there we get to the conclusion. And I'd like to focus on this bit:



> In the light of the above, I have come to the difficult conclusion that it is neither possible nor desirable for the NPA to continue with the prosecution of Mr Zuma.
> 
> It is a difficult decision because the NPA has expended considerable resources on this matter, and it has been conducted by a committed and dedicated team of prosecutors and investigators who have handled a difficult case with utmost professionalism and who have not been implicated in any misconduct.
> 
> Let me also state for the record that the prosecution team itself had recommended that the prosecution should continue even if the allegations are true, and that it should be left to a court of law to decide whether to stop the prosecution. 
> 
> However, I believe that the NPA has a special duty, as one of the guardians of the constitution and the Bill of Rights, to ensure that its conduct is at all times beyond reproach.


And so Mokotedi Mpshe paints himself with his own brush. I would suggest that the Director has argued against himself.

Is his dropping of the charges against Jacob Zuma beyond reproach?
Especially after arguing so eloquently that the NPA must pursue justice without fear or favour.

He freely concedes there are no mitigating circumstances i.r.o. the substantive merits, the fair trial defences and the practical implications and considerations of continued prosecution. 

So we are left with his embarrassment. Isn't embarrassment a form of fear?

Now here is the kicker - 
How can we ever see Director Mpshe's interpretation of justice tested in court?
Because let's face it, who's left to bring the charge?

If it was such a difficult decision, he should not have appointed himself as final arbiter in the matter and followed the advice of his prosecution team - and let the courts decide.

As the Director says, the NPA is *one* of the guardians of the constitution and Bill of Rights, not the *final* guardian.

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## Graeme

"Cry the beloved country"

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## duncan drennan

I'm angry. I'm very angry.

With the last week of wrangling I had already prepared myself for this, and wasn't surprised when the charges were dropped. What I was surprised by was how angry I got. I'm not even that angry about the decision, but rather about the process the resulted in this decision and the implications it has.

I'm angry that we have a one set of corrupt leaders taking over from another set of corrupt leaders. It has become quite clear that our government is not at all concerned with corruption. If they were we would have a whole different set of people in parliament.

I'm angry that we live in a society that is okay with this, a society which will continue to vote for a corrupt government â a government which is effectively stealing the food from their mouths, a government which will spend billions on useless weaponry to gain 4x4's and better houses rather than find ways to ensure that people have access to food, water and health care.

I am angry that there are companies and people who are more than willing to offer bribes and participate in the dance of corruption for their own selfish gains. 

I'm angry that I live in a place where people come begging at my door for food and money, that I turn them away, and that this is acceptable. I am unhappy with the choices that I make in this regard (and that those choices are considered acceptable), and I am angry the people in high places concern themselves more with opportunistic gain than restoring dignity to broken people.

I am angry that after 15 years the opposition parties have not managed to establish themselves as viable/meaningful/believable options for the vast majority of our country's citizens and that people would choose not to vote instead of voting for an opposition party.

I am angry that people are stupid enough to choose to boycott voting rather than vote for something better or at least against what is not working. I am angry that this attitude has become ingrained into our society and that this works in the favour of the ruling party.

I am angry that I work hard, pay my taxes, do my best to produce things that add value to my clients' businesses and as a result to the country and that all of *my hard work is undermined* by the actions of corrupt and selfish people.

Today I feel like a secondâclass citizen â not because of race or class â but because of ethics and values that I fail to see reflected in our society.

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## Dave A

This is what makes me angry:



> ANC treasurer-general Mathews Phosa said the NPA had finally seen the light.
> 
> "We have always said Zuma is innocent, and today it was the NPA who said it. We say to the NPA: at last you have seen the light, you have finally seen the truth," Phosa said.
> from M&G story here


There are times when I wonder if JZ is the real problem here  :Frown: 

Anyway - it seems both the DA and ID are investigating pursuing the matter rather vigorously.

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## insulin

Well you are innocent till proven guilty. Personally I feel cheated because all the complications and in the end everything about this JZ thing just feels fake...  :Confused: 

However I did expected to see this outcome. I think a lot of us did. However JZ will always have this stigma glooming over him. And you are right JZ is not the problem here. The system is the problem. Face it Politicians in Africa is untouchable no matter how controversial they may be. I also lost faith in our court system because clearly money was just too great an adversary. Now the road is paved therefore others will follow... I lower my head in shame.  :Frown:

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## Dave A

> Yolanda Young, ANC national executive member, said there was a need for a major clean up of the justice system, saying it was full of people who abused their positions.


Now this is where I get really nervous.

Obviously Yolanda is right - but it was the ANC machinery that deployed these people. Now they are going to clean house and be trusted to put in people who *won't* abuse their positions?

Look at the failure to reinstate Pikoli, a decision that has proved key to the NPA dropping the Zuma charges. Was that done in the best interests of an independent NPA? Or was that political interference to keep a man out who has clearly demonstrated his willingness to act without fear or favour?

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## garthu

I think we all angry! Worried, afraid of consequences here. If anything, take at least this one positive issue away. A poll conducted by IOL has come back that 12% of people feeling good about this and Zuma... (crazy idiots of little perception and ANC beneficiaries no doubt) but the rest are sorely disappointed and feel that he is unsuitable now as a leader, even saw a few comments from people claiming to be "die hard ANC activists" saying they are disappointed. 

It really is becoming possible that so much damage is being done, that they may actually do themselves in here.... hang on to that thought as a little positivity. It really could result in something!

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## insulin

See the scorpions are a good example of what the ANC can do. The moment they pointed out corrupted ANC members they were taken down. See I will always come back to my point and that is law is no longer law it is what the ANC say it is! Because they are government they expect immunity and will have immunity. The truth is that corruption is a perk and they will use it to benefit themselves. So the question is not government but the system that governs government. That system is failing the country right now with effects unknown... If JZ becomes president and stays president after the election what country will invest in us? If the UN had any moral standing they will not do business with us and boycott the living hell out of us. But if they do business with us... I think you know what that means and what it symbolises.  :EEK!:

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## duncan drennan

Here is the logical reasoning that many people had hoped for, but we did not see.




> What should happen is that Mr McCarthy and Bulelani Ngcuka should be investigated to find out whether they breached the NPA act which prohibits interference in its work. Mr Zuma and his lawyer, Mr Hulley should also be investigated because they had in their possession recordings which were criminally handed over to them and they might well be guilty as accomplices in the commission of a crime that carries a ten year prison sentence.
> 
> Third, if one tries o fit in the reasoning of the NPA into the prosecuting policy â which unlike precedent from colonial Britain the NPA is actually legally bound by â it is difficult to see how a decision not to charge Mr Zuma under these circumstances can be justified in relation to this prosecution policy.

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## insulin

True but the thing is JZ is government and nothing that government do is ever illegal! No! It is always misunderstood in some strange obscure way... there are no criminals in government just a lot of misunderstood people with strange ways of getting more money...  :Innocent:

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## Dave A

Just a reminder that the court of public opinion is sitting on 22nd April  :Whistling: 

Make sure you are heard!

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## insulin

Hallo Dave, I hope that someone can say anything because I have feeling that we can expect masses in support of the outcome and those who dare say anything else may end up hurt.  :Chair: 

I mean JZ has proven on countless occasions that he will amass masses to stand for his beliefs. His mentality can easily be mob driven and voices will be silenced because of this. Perhaps I am seeing things in a completely wrong way but again perhaps not?  :Huh: 

Do you belief that the Court of Public Opinion will be the stage of true blind justice or just another exercise in mob based politics or is there something else I am missing?  :Fish:

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## Dave A

Here's a thought.

Whatever is wrong/went wrong in the NPA - it happened on the ANC's watch  :Hmmm:

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## insulin

Yes it did... The question however is why? And more importantly why now?  :Detective:

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## Dave A

Well, Mac Maharaj has expressed his views.



> Former ANC heavyweight Mac Maharaj has pointed a finger at former president Thabo Mbeki's "rotten administration".
> 
> Maharaj is himself the subject of an ongoing seven-year investigation by the NPA. 
> 
> Yesterday he lamented the targeting of certain people to settle political scores.
> 
> In an interview on Tuesday Maharaj - a former transport minister - said Monday's revelations pointed to the "real rot" of former president Thabo Mbeki's administration. "That is now being exposed. The abuse by institutions of the state under the shell of democracy in order to perpetuate power in the hands of a clique and to create an order determined by the so-called kingmakers: a group of people who jointly or severally acted in a way, so that they would clandestinely wield power and keep power in the hands of a group," said Maharaj.
> full story from IOL here


Problem is JZ and co. have inherited the same machinery and perhaps even the same style.

How long did they have the evidence they gave to the NPA?
Was there any deliberate timing in their release?
Was Pikoli fired to ensure a more favourable NPA position on the Zuma prosecution?

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insulin (07-Apr-09)

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## insulin

Now we are getting close to the real truth. I promise you that the so called evidence that was given to the NPA is not that old. Secondly timing is everything individuals got fired and it is election year. Now JZ is a victim of corruption imagine that! He now has a sympathetic ear to sing to... He made it clear in his statement. Now the question is who can possibly benefit from JZ innocence? Then the water becomes murky again... Because who is this international support that he refer to in his speech?  :Confused:

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## Dave A

Probably no surprise in this, but Ngcuka denies the conspiracy claims.

Imagine the shyte if it emerges that the evidence of a conspiracy was manipulated or contrived?
Surely not - no-one could be that dumb.
Surely  :Confused:

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## insulin

I will not cross over to the conspiracy world yet. But it is getting close to cross that line. First let us focus on who will benefit from JZâs exoneration. In the world of politics nothing is free so the answer we are looking for may only appear if JZ becomes President. Then his elected parliament will slowly give us a clue as to who will benefit. Follow the new international alliance groups that will from. See the NPA failed for a reason. Was that reason based on mistakes or did something go wrong. Then one must look at the NPA as an organization. Who is calling the shots? Who can pressure the NPA? Now these questions become more interesting does it not?   :Confused:

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## insulin

Also something else came to mind when I drank my coffee. Public opinion may change if given the right spin to JZ’s case... JZ the victim of the elite... JZ innocence is a powerful political tool. See his innocence shows a level of  incompetence  within the NPA and associated groups. Now JZ may not be a strong leader but his story is sympathetic and that alone can change the outcome of an election. So I cannot help but wonder if all of this wasn’t just mirrors and smoke to twist the public to stand with JZ... Is this at all possible?  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Marq

A Fall out among thieves and a trail of looted treasure
What joy as we find our leaders point of measure
A conspiracy...they all cried out in surprise.
Who is spreading these vicious lies

Tis only I said the common man
The One who is paying for your contraband
Begone said the leaders we have lots here to do
Like coverups and paperwork to flush down the loo

Another arms deal lies in the dust
With billions extracted they gorge in the lust
And kill and maim in other parts of the world
Creating diversion while they work to have you foiled

And so you trudge off to work again
Trapped by their greed and need to flame
A lie of immense proportion and gain
Keeping you busy with woe and self pain 

                                  From the writings of  Kram Thism (2009)

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Dave A (08-Apr-09)

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## Marq

> In what could turn out to be the greatest fraud in US history, American authorities have started to investigate the alleged role of senior military officers in the misuse of $125bn (Â£88bn) in a US -directed effort to reconstruct Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. The exact sum missing may never be clear, but a report by the US Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) suggests it may exceed $50bn, making it an even bigger theft than Bernard Madoff's notorious Ponzi scheme.


Not to be outdone by the South African leaders, the Americans have a their own soapie arms deal going.......here

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## Dave A

It looks like part of the ANC strategy is to have us believe Jacob Zuma is a victim. However, is he Jacob the victim or Jacob the manipulator?

It is a pity the court of public opinion is only convened every 5 years to hand out judgement as there is no guarantee that this crucial bit of evidence will emerge before 22nd April.

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## Marq

The problem being that the general 'court of public opinion' is misinformed, easily led astray, has no clue on the big picture, is not directly affected by the grime and corruption and will follow the person with the biggest mouth.

The question for them is probably - what or who is an alternative? I think they see politicians as all the same. (Well they are anyway, are they not?) 
In a way the 'terror' is responsible for some of that - he was involved in their previous struggle without helping them then, what could he do differently now - is he is just another corrupt politician? after all was he not the head of the defence story? Did he not have the biggest say in the arms deal? Who else has come to light that shows potential of being a great leader? I cannot think of one shining light out there.  :Batman: 

So better the devil you know......mmmmm

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## Superscenic

There it hangs on the lamppost: The leering potato head of the apocalypse. Better the potato head you know...than the rotten egg you don't?

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## wynn

The more things change the more they stay the same.
There are a lot of 'Mbeki Cadre Deployees' who are rudely having their bums thrown off their little piles of butter.
Then there are a lot of potential 'Zuma Cadre Deployees' lining up to slip their ar$e$ into the other guys butter, I fear there are more 'Ar$e$ than Butter and that will lead to bloodshed.

If only the powers that be devoted the same intellectual time to solving the problems of the poor instead of all the back stabbing, we would live in a paradise, I suppose one can dream.

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## insulin

I fail to understand the need for politicians in general but that is just me. However in the plan of plans JZ it seems have still a role to play. What role that might be is left up to time to reveal. The thing that worries me so, is how easy we say the word corruption... Has it lost its booming effect that someone is indeed evil at mind and by hand steeling much more then what we as a country can afford! Surly you must jest! But we do not... for this is no joke... If political power is based on integrity and moral soundness then surely justice has its place! Alas no... The system has failed one and all! It showed the world that justice has a price-tag. So in principle if justice is for sale then everything it stands for is also for sale and that includes you and I! So where is the line to be drawn?

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## Dave A

Oh the irony  :Stick Out Tongue: 



> Zuma ally and SACP boss Blade Nzimande, in a statement, accused the media of engaging in the diversionary tactic of "focusing on how information may have gotten into the hands of Zuma's lawyers... That's not the issue. The issue is that organs of state have been abused."
> full story from IOL here


Comrade Blade - what if those tapes landed in the hands of Zuma's lawyers via abuse of organs of state?  :Slap:

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## insulin

It is kind of interesting this JZ story. Really it is actually kind of fictional because let us face it the aliens could have given JZ the evidence he needed for exoneration. Or little green men from mars but it still points to the same question and it always will. Who will benefit from JZ exoneration? It does not matter if JZ was guilty or innocent what matters is that someone took the time and made sure he is exonerated... Now somehow I donât think this was done out of the goodness of that personâs heart. No politics is a dog eat dog world...  :Confused:

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## Dave A

In the interest of balanced reporting:



> National Director of Public Prosecutions Moketedi Mpshe could have made no other decision than to drop charges against ANC president Jacob Zuma, former judge Willem Heath said on Thursday.
> 
> "If he proceeded [with the prosecution] the judge would have ruled that it was an illegality and it would have come to an end," Heath said.
> full story from IOL here


I'll agree with one aspect though. The DA _et al_ are crazy trying to fight this through the courts. In fact it sums up the DA's weakness - fighting for the fine points whilst missing the bigger picture. They need to be scoring their victories in the polls, not the courts.

Hearts, *then* minds bring the big numbers.

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## Dave A

And right on queue...

This, I think, supports my suggestion that chasing Zuma through the courts is bad strategy.



> The survey said Zumaâs legal woes have not affected his party and that only the controversial behaviour of the ANC Youth League and its president, Julius Malema, have cost it support.
> 
> One-third of voters polled said they would vote for an opposition party because of Malema, while 10% said they would not vote at all because of him. More than 50% of those polled said Zumaâs legal troubles will âmake them more likely to vote for the ANCâ.
> full story from M&G here

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## Dave A

Will the evidence ever be released?



> President-elect Jacob Zuma has ignored acting prosecuting head Mokotedi Mpshe's request to respond to a court bid that would expose all the evidence that led to his release.
> 
> Zuma on Wednesday failed to reveal whether he would allow the release of his confidential representations to the National Prosecuting Authority - and the tape recordings that ultimately persuaded Mpshe to withdraw all charges against him - as part of the Democratic Alliance's legal challenge to Mpshe's decision.
> 
> Last week, on the day that the NPA was scheduled to hand over all the information used to make his decision on Zuma, Mpshe sent a letter to Zuma, asking him to indicate whether he would permit the release of his representations and tapes.
> 
> Officials at the State Attorney's Office on Wednesday told The Star that Zuma's lawyers had not responded to the NPA's request and said they were unable to say when they would do so.
> 
> "Our hands are tied we can't do anything until we hear from Mr Zuma's lawyers," a state attorney involved in the matter said.
> ...


And what is the future for Director Mpshe?




> The National Prosecuting Authority, recently mired in controversy, is set for a massive revamp. 
> 
> Jacob Zuma and his supporters have accused former president Thabo Mbeki and successive national directors of public prosecutions of abusing the institution to wage a political vendetta against him.
> 
> Although acting NPA head Mokotedi Mpshe has recently been lauded by the Zuma camp for dropping criminal charges against the ANC leader, it is widely believed that someone closer to Zuma will be appointed to head the beleaguered institution.
> 
> The man frequently tipped to replace Mpshe is former Limpopo premier Ngoako Ramatlhodi, who has supported Zuma in his legal travails since he was first charged in 2005.
> 
> Ramatlhodi has, himself, been the subject of a Scorpions investigation, but the probe was dropped in November last year after he made representations to the NPA. Ramatlhodi was admitted as an advocate to the Pretoria Bar earlier this month.
> full story from M&G here

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## garthu

Suppose it was to be expected. Fact is, n ow that JZ is in, i think we all have to move forward from there was conspiracy there, corruption and he was involved.

Being the president of the country we dont need him attracting attention as corrupt etc. He will now now surround himself with staunch supporters that would not paint him in this light. Sadly i would have to agree with the tactic anyway (as much as i detest it and think it is completely wrong and principle goes against the grain here). Bad press on our president will not do this country any favors in the future, be he massively corrupt or not. Politically attention needs to be turned away from this in order to regain some form of "respect" again, investment, development etc.
DA's continual onslaught on him which will continue will be purely for there own benefit - not going to help SA at this point i don't think. They should move on now and create positivity. 

Not only are we at a point where we don't have a choice but to accept, but sadly we may need to accept it...

Now.... wheres that hard hat that was being passed around....

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Dave A (30-Apr-09)

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## insulin

We do need to accept JZ as our new leader. We also need to accept the consequences that come with it. The truth is that we will not see a change in government for the next 35 years. So if anything let us hope we will see a change in attitude. The stigma will remain and it will endure. Every deal that JZ make will raise suspicion no matter how innocent the deal was. Every investorâs motive will be questioned and every mishap will be magnified and scrutinized. This is our foreseeable future... So let us hope...

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Dave A (30-Apr-09)

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## Yvonne

There was an oriental village governed by an appointed official.

It was discovered that he had committed massive fraud and corruption and had built himself a wonderful home etc. with their taxes.

The population decided to call for an election, and nominated some opposition.

The original official was elected again, by a substantial margin.
A traveller passing through asked a few of the local population why they thought he remained so popular as they already had the evidence that he was corrupt.

The answer was, he should have all he needs by now, and any new official would need to have the same social standing in terms of material things, so he too would need to be corrupt! 
At least the old official would know he was under survelliance, and they hoped he would not do it again!
(Better the devil you know!)

Thought provoking!

But sadly, I personally feel that the ANC has, like a small bully in a playground, through this election, confirmed their political freedom to abuse power.

And like the fable about the Emperior's clothes - will continue to "swear blind" that they 
hold the highest moral ground.

Yvonne

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Dave A (02-May-09)

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## Dave A

Welcome to the next round in the Arms Deal saga.

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## Marq

Seems there is an amalgamated Department of all these tainted departments. Its call the Department of Indifference. A Ministry of Bungled Tenders and Corrupt Spenders. The King is shapeshifting into a Jester as the court mocks and teases his efforts. 

Long live Jacob the Jester and his court of many colours.

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## Dave A

I guess as long as everyone has already got their kickbacks, deciding to bomb this lemon should be an easy decision.

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## Dave A

> Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi is upset about the arms-deal probe being scrapped, saying the flawed deal had made many rich on the sidelines, the Times reported on Tuesday.
> 
> "Cosatu is extremely worried that investigations into the arms deal will be closed down. There is no doubt in our minds that a lot of corruption happened in the procurement process," said Vavi at a lecture in Khayelitsha in honour of housing activist Irene Grootboom.
> full story from M&G here


Wasn't COSATU party to the call for a political solution to the legal problems of Jacob Zuma?

What did they expect? Of course the investigation was going to get shut down.  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Butch Hannan

The arms deal was the beginning of the entrenchment of the corruption of the present "regime". This set the bench mark for the massive bribery and corruption that is taking place daily. Until we get answers on the arms deal I cannot see the situation improving. Maybe we should have a *"Truth and* *Reconciliation"* type of commission on the arms deal where all the people involved can spill the beans on it. I believe that the magnitude of the  corruption involved in the arms deal is so big that it could in fact bring the present government to its knees. Just wishful thinking.

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desA (20-Oct-10)

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## desA

> The arms deal was the beginning of the entrenchment of the corruption of the present "regime". This set the bench mark for the massive bribery and corruption that is taking place daily. Until we get answers on the arms deal I cannot see the situation improving. Maybe we should have a *"Truth and* *Reconciliation"* type of commission on the arms deal where all the people involved can spill the beans on it. *I believe that the magnitude of the  corruption involved in the arms deal is so big that it could in fact bring the present government to its knees.* Just wishful thinking.


Variation on the SA theme:
I believe that the magnitude of the  corruption involved in the arms deal & many, if not most, subsequent deals is so big that it should in fact bring any normally-appointed, democratic government to its knees.

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## Dave S

> Variation on the SA theme:
> I believe that the magnitude of the  corruption involved in the arms deal & many, if not most, subsequent deals is so big that it should in fact bring any *normally-appointed, democratic government* to its knees.


What, we have a democratically appointed Gobblemunt??? Why didn't someone tell me :Big Grin: . 

Seriously, it would bring any democratic gov. to it's knees, but we all have to remember, this is Africa and most of the voters/population only have access to gov. controlled media, so at elections time where are they gonna get the biggest influence for their votes...?

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desA (20-Oct-10)

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## Dave A

Corruption around the arms deal raises its ugly head yet again. Breaking news is Saab has admitted it paid R24 million.




> In a disclosure likely to re-ignite controversy about the long-running arms-deal scandal, Swedish multinational Saab has disclosed that R24-million paid to defence consultant Fana Hlongwane was hidden from Saab by its partner in the deal, BAE Systems.
> 
> Hlongwane, an adviser to Defence Minister Joe Modise at the time the deals were negotiated, has received so-called "commission" payments of more than R200-million from entities controlled by BAE.

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## Dave A

Zapiro keeping things in perspective...



http://mg.co.za/zapiro/

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## Dave A

I didn't get a chance to even skim the headlines last week.

My goodness - looks like M&G has been busy!

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## Justloadit

Maybe the fight for justice is not over, and with the recent delay in the gagging of the media, the perpetrators may see their day in court, and hopefully the South African voter will realise that they have merely been puppets in a well oiled machine to keep them poor.

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## Butch Hannan

Maybe sanity will prevail and Zuma will get his day in court as he previously so desired. Just wishful thinking again.

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## Dave A

So there's been an announcement from the Presidency that there will be a commission of inquiry into the arms deal corruption issue.

I wonder if our President will be called to testify.

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## Justloadit

All smoke and mirrors - by doing this he can control the proceedings via the sidelines and shut everyone up.

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## wynn

AAHA! Full disclosure and pay the money back for immunity, I suppose the pres can afford that now, so he will be the first to spill the beans.

Will he leave TM and all the others dangling in the breeze?

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## Dave A

About the best piece I've read on the possible why's is this:




> Speculation abounds about the reasons for the unexpected announcement.
> 
> Presidential spokesperson Mac Maharaj said it was time for the matter to be brought to an end. “The president decided the fastest and cleanest way to conclude the matter is to appoint a commission of inquiry.”
> 
> But former ANC MP Andrew Feinstein, who did an exposé on some aspects of the arms deal in his book, After the Party, believes otherwise.
> 
> “It is my opinion that there are two reasons for Zuma’s decision. Number one is that Julius Malema has threatened he will expose arms deal skeletons if the ANC continues with his disciplinary hearing. Now Zuma can neutralise the threat by controlling the process.”
> 
> The second reason could be the Constitutional Court challenge, in which Terry Crawford-Browne wanted to force the president to appoint a commission of inquiry.
> ...


JZ has already shown he has excellent instincts on what cards to play when. And he's got to be sick and tired of all the jibes and being held to ransom over the issue.

I wouldn't bet against him playing open cards this time around while he has the power to put an amnesty on the table.

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Newretailer (16-Sep-11)

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## AndyD

I'm wondering if the fact that the arms deal is also becoming higher profile with investigations in other countries might have forced his hand.

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