# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  SEO and CMS

## TheElectrician

How serious do you, as a business owner, take your SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and CMS (Content Management Solutions)? I worked as an expert abroad for a few years (in between getting my trade license), working on the Google.co.uk and Google.com servers; and I've had a look at the state here, and not many businesses are doing what they can to get on the front page of Google.co.za for keywords? 

I am thinking of hanging up my electrician boots (Outsource the work), and have opened a Web Vitality branch in South Africa, as it is my true passion, but am struggling to get clients (Even though the methods I was taught abroad far outrank those implemented by companies in SA). An example of my work is the plumbing / electrical websites I have created (link in signature), and they are the 2 most optimized sites in SA for certain key phrases. I will eat my hat if you can show me otherwise (The only reason they aren't on the front page yet is the domain name is under 3 months old, and Google doesn't allow these to compete in order to stop spam tactics that take advantage of the crawlers. My claim can be verified if you run the sites through Moz.com). 

Could anyone please suggest clients I could approach for this? The type of clients I worked with in the UK were mostly online shops, but the market isn't as big here in regards to that. Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks  :Smile:

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## TheElectrician

Sorry, I misspelled the domain name in my signature; the websites are ...

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## pmbguy

Hi TheElectrician (or should I say TheSEO). Look I know nothing about interwebber related issues, but I do have some good advice for you. Perhaps you should make a list of large business that have a poor ranking, a long list. Study the client business in detail. Then don’t just send them emails, rather try make appointments and sell yourself face to face. I would suggest doing this after at least one successful job to show them what you can do for them. Be over prepared for each appointment, wow them with not only your skills but with how much you know about them And their competition. Compare their ranking with that of their competition, and how their competition benefits by this etc.

Hope this helps 

Good luck

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TheElectrician (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Hi pmb guy;

Haha hopefully TheSEO soon, but not without clients :/ I have an extensive portfolio of businesses I managed on search engines abroad, but half the kicker is you won't be able to see them in SA; as Google tries to show you things most relevant to your location to better assist you. Which in all honesty is fair enough, it just makes small things like this a tad difficult. I do however have testimonies on my website, so I would hope they come into play? I have also thought about the direct approach, but I am 23 with a trade license, and South Africa has this weird stigma about not taking young business owners (Esp those with no master degrees etc) that seriously? I have had a few people give similar accounts, but that is a story for another day. I will however rethink this, and stop putting obstacles in my way and just crack on, but if I could ask you one last question, your response would be greatly appreciated:

What businesses do you contact that you have found directly from Google? That way I can look at low ranking ones and try your approach on them. Just a bit of market research before I start  :Smile:  Also a cheeky one, but I see you are self employed too? I would love to do a competitor analysis for you if you think you could benefit?

Kyle

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## Dave A

> Sorry, I misspelled the domain name in my signature; the websites are ...


Then edit your signature, The SEO Man  :Whistling:

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TheElectrician (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Already have  :Whistling: ; I just didn't know if it would display on old posts when I said that  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Dave A

And there I was wondering if you were trying to get the links into the content area.
Silly me  :Embarrassment: 

Anyhow - all's well that ends well.

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TheElectrician (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Haha nothing wrong with a decent little link in a comments area, preferably with a little bit of anchor text and the odd Social media share...  :Wink:  However, I do play fair :P

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## pmbguy

> What businesses do you contact that you have found directly from Google? That way I can look at low ranking ones and try your approach on them.


Can’t think of any, I usually use a business that has been referred to me by a friend or client. 

You missing the point slightly. Take time and google. See which big businesses don’t have good rankings...and follow my advice as given above.

Don’t worry about age, I was about 24 when I approached business in my direct marketing efforts for my business. Age is relative to everything else. 




> Just a bit of market research before I start  Also a cheeky one, but I see you are self employed too? I would love to do a competitor analysis for you if you think you could benefit?


I don’t have a website, but I am thinking of having something next year. If you would like to do a competitor analysis for me, given the fact that I don’t have a website, then please do. How can I say no?...and thank you for the offer.

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## IMHO

> I don’t have a website,


What!  :No:

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## IMHO

> (The only reason they aren't on the front page yet is the domain name is under 3 months old,


This post is then a bit premature, don't you think? If someone finds excuses for why he can not back up his claims, I already see red flags and will not look at them, even in future.

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TheElectrician (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Hi pmbguy,

I was hoping to use your list of businesses that you use as a starting point to Google the big businesses that don't rank well. Just speed the process up. I will however, look into just typing in industries and looking through pages 3 and 4... I will get on it tonight after the house is quiet :P If you don't mind me asking, what industry are you in? If hypothetically you did have a website, what would people search to find you? ie. Financial Analysis Pietermaritzburg. From there I can let you know what your competitors are doing, and what you could do to. Could I also suggest registering your domain NOW. Afrihost can do it for R9.00 online (I think if you do it this week you also get 50% off). This will stop you having the problem that I have at this point in time (Domain age), and help you crawl rankings when you are ready to get clients through the interwebs.

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## TheElectrician

Hi IMHO,

Fair enough reply, I did however provide the option to check my claims through Moz.com, which is the worlds leading SEO analysis tool. Companies like Amazon revolve around the features available in those tools, so I figured it would provide me with some credibility. I did not want someone to check my websites, research my current rankings for those sites and make a claim of incompetence against me. I have however got extensive experience and results with web domains I do not own, but they were not my clients directly, but those of my previous employer (And UK based partner). I was also not directly advertising my services, but asking rather how I would, ensuring all my ducks are in a row before I engage them. I am still practicing as an electrician until I can get clients / start generating enough income from the current sites before I devout my energy fully toward it. 

I do thank you for your opinion though, and have a good one  :Smile:

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## IMHO

> and they are the 2 most optimized sites in SA for certain key phrases. I will eat my hat if you can show me otherwise


The more I think about this, the more I giggle. How can you make such a claim? How did you measure it?

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## TheElectrician

http://moz.com/research-tools
4 years as an international SEO analyst. 

The leading source of SEO on the planet. Both my websites have received an A grade, while my nearest competition (Any plumbing / electrical company in SA) has a B or C. Domain age is the only reason for lack of propagation.

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## IMHO

Maybe I am to quick to judge. Tell me more about moz.com. I never used it and do not know what it do. What is moz telling you to make the conclusion that your keywords, phrases, is the best optimized in SA?

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## pmbguy

I know I know. The thing is I dont retail as such. I provide a service, however it is still stupid of me not to have a website, I agree. Like I said.. next year sometime I will have a site. I am rather doff to the technicalities  but lucky for me I have some IT friends who do. I have not yet had a need for a website, too busy with machines. BUT I get it, I need one.      :Embarrassment:

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## pmbguy

Hi TheElectrician - If you have any chance of survival you gotta give us more info about who you are and substantiate your claims, or unfortunately you will get ripped to pieces. Not by me but by the general TFSA public.

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TheElectrician (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Hi IMHO,

I think it is more my fault, I made the claim and assumed people would have industry specific knowledge without thinking (Silly mistake). If you are prepared for the read, I will gladly explain to you and anyone else reading this how I came to that claim. Some of it is a bit basic, so excuse me if I sound patronizing at any point, it is not my intention.

Firstly, Google doesn't store your website. It is nothing more than a massive index with a link to your website displayed. What you are doing when you 'Google' something is checking their "library of links", and it shows what it believes is the most relevant results, with a link to the websites. Google have nearly 300 parameters in regards to what they use to give rankings, which they keep top secret. What it can basically boil down to though are 2 things, which I will explain here:

Authority: How strong your website is in regards to other websites. Things like domain age, back links and social prevalence come into place in this category. This helps distinguish things in the same category from one another, so if you were to Google "Computers" for instance, pages from Wikipedia, Microsoft, Apple etc would all show up miles before Jonnyspc.co.za. The things they publish are deemed to be relevant and trusted as they have a high authority. This is also why if Wikipedia publish an article on your business industry for instance, it will appear a lot higher than your website (unless you Google your business name directly). This helps Google ensure that the user gets the best possible results for their search, and aren't spammed with pages that make a quick use of the next factor,

Relevance: This is the most obvious one, but Google isn't going to show an article of a chimpanzee on Wikipedia if you are looking for a carpet cleaner in Pretoria. This is where you optimize your site for relevance. You do this by creating keyword rich text, the URL name, metadata, social engagement, image names and anchor text. There is a lot more too it, but through this process you will see why I have done the following things (I am going to use The Plumber Bro's as an example):

-My business name has the keyword people will Google, as does my URL. I also have pages like /Johannesburg /Pretoria etc, as if someone types in 'plumber Durban', the page http://www.plumber-bros.co.za/durban will have their search directly in the URL.
-My slogan has a keyword in it (Don't sleep with a drip, call a PLUMBER).
-My logo is text, not an image (Besides the spanner). It is also an H1 (First heading), so Google knows it is a plumbing website, and 'plumber' is the most important thing here.
-I have many links to social media.
-I offer other forms of relevant and informative advice that would drive traffic from other sources http://www.plumber-bros.co.za/bro-code. 
-My content is keyword rich (The word plumber is on my home page alone more than 14 times).
-My physical page names are all keyword rich.
-Loads of other things I have personally discovered and done that I won't share as to not assist any competitors.

No other website in the industry in South Africa can make these bragging rights, my only problem is that I don't have the authority yet to rank for keywords. This is to stop people registering domains, getting to the top via spamming their relevance, and when they are taken down for being spam, they can do it all over again in a few days. That is why I need to wait for the mandatory 3 months before Google accepts I am not trying to make a quick buck and am a legitimate and honest business. If you Google my business name exactly though, I will be there, but not yet for keywords. This is to allow people with websites to attract traffic through more conventional means. Where Moz tools comes into place is it sends its own version of 'Google bots' onto your page, and brings back a report to tell you how well your site is optimized and what Google will think of it. These are the most accurate forms of information a webmaster can use to see how he fares against competition, and will send a report on any website you wish (If I recall you need to register before you can check it out though?). I have used these tools, and it has come back and said I am the most optimized (maybe not the prettiest, it is very difficult to combine functionality and aesthetics for something like plumbing) plumbing and electrical website in South Africa. When I do have my authority, which is the hardest part (The wait, as well as a good link build), I will receive front page status for search terms like 'plumber Johannesburg', and the other major areas in South Africa. If you Google the actual search terms too, you will see things that aren't too relevant, as no one in SA has fully optimized the web and the power it has on the trade industry just yet (Like it does abroad). Things like the PICB and directories / job sites come up, even though trades are Googled over 40k a month in South Africa. 

Just a quick one again for your knowledge, but I explained what Google is, not how it works. What it does is starts with an x amount of websites (unknown to us civilians) that it has deemed 'the most authoritative', and sends Google bots down the pages. When it finds a link, it goes to that site, and starts the process again. Websites that return back plenty of links from high authority sites, in themselves become high authority. Ie if Microsoft wrote an awesome article on johnnyspc.co.za and linked to it, Google would know it is not a site that is full of sh1t and selling viagra etc. You must remember also Google is nothing more than coding, and very rarely does it have human interaction in regards to what the rankings are. You can also have anchor text like <a href="www.plumber-bros.co.za">Plumber</a> and <a href="www.electrician-bros.co.za">Electrician</a> (I hope admin let me keep those), which are extremely valuable, as they combine the keyword and a link, helping Google better index the site. There are so many more variable that come into play, but that is kind of the just of it. The problem with SA is that not many people know too much about it, and as such they disregard it and don't realize how big the industry is abroad (Worth billions in the states alone), and how big it will be in SA once we sort out our internet access, speeds and affordability (we are getting there). What I am trying to do is help people realize this, and that is why I opened the question to see what other things I could do to engage people on this level and get clients for the services I am able to offer. I hope you found it informative and please let me know if you changed your firstly stated opinion, and if there is anything further I could do in regards to assisting you understand the industry. If you could also be so kind as to give feedback in the vein of PMBGuy, I would love that. 

Thanks so much,

Kyle

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Dave A (19-Nov-13)

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## TheElectrician

Absolutely fair enough, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I have sent quite a lengthy message, but it has links in it to validate my claims, so it is being moderated  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Dave A

> Absolutely fair enough, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> I have sent quite a lengthy message, but it has links in it to validate my claims, so it is being moderated


Approved, and they're good posts too  :Thumbup: 

(I also play fair  :Wink:  and you're definitely winning me over  :Smile:  )

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## IMHO

haha, I am not as easily convinced as Dave A. Most of the things you have mentioned, we know, although I am an absolute newbie in the game and only do it for myself. I would love to hear what Mark Atkinson says on the subject. Like the term "keyword rich" bandied around so much. As I understand it, it actually count against you if you overdo it and that meta tags is ignored by Google lately. To me it sounds more like you have read a lot of Google pages and watched a lot of YouTube on the subject, as I did. However it does not make me a SEO expert.  I also understand the impetuosity of youth. Been there, done that. Worked a few months/years for a company and then thought I can go do it for myself.

Call me old school. But to me, the proof of the pudding, is still in the eating. How old is your domains now? How long do we have to wait?

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## pmbguy

Hey TheElectrician you did good, my goodness. I hoped you were for real, I was concerned at first, but you certainly exceeded my expectations. Well done   :Applaud:

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## TheElectrician

Hi Dave, thanks for that, means a lot!  I am actually really glad I found this forum; and look forward to what I would imagine would be the long fought battles with IMHO. The next wave starting now ....  :Stick Out Tongue: 

Hi IMHO,

I'm glad you actually have some grasp on what I was talking about, I made it specific to the point someone who didn't understand it at all could grasp it. I take it you would like something more from me for you to say you could qualify my as an SEO expert? I do however also believe that to some extent you would like to fish out some tips etc that you could implement, at the price of me trying to repair what might look like a bruised ego. I will be more than happy to oblige, as the internet is, in my opinion, a place for people to learn. 

To start with things you have said, the phrase keyword rich isn't the same as keyword stuffing. I will revert again to my page, but if I used phrases like: "The Plumber Bro's are plumbers that are your local plumbers and are a plumber in your area", and had the words "Plumber, plumber, plumbing" written in white on a white background, that is stuffing. Google will actually remove your site from the index for 18 months or so if you try that. The trick is to have your keyword anywhere between 4-6% of your text in well written and well constructed sentences. I also didn't say metatags, I said metadata. It is actually recommended you have one metatag, and it is your site name. Putting in keywords are ignored, and can actually be detrimental, you are right. In regards to Youtube, you are again right, I have watched many things on there, it taught me how to build in wordpress and better explained rel= canonical to me (We will link to that later, you are going to really want to read on). I'm not going to hide that I use the internet to learn, but in regards to the actual process of optimization, there are certain things that only experience and a good bit of common sense will get you. Just to begin, I would like to point out something in regards to our very conversation on www.theforumsa.co.za. Did you know that this is one of the only forums in South Africa that doesn't put a no follow link on your signature? I found that out at 11am this morning through plugins I have on my browser, and by 8pm, I had the webmaster of the site thank me for information and content, got given over 200 page views on my site, and to top it off he allowed me to post anchor linked text onto his website. How much more white hat can you get, and in a day? Has anyone you watched on Youtube been able to say that, let alone prove it in front of you? I have already had this feed pinged through a website called www.pingler.com; and the link to mine and yours (Kinda but not really, more on that below) website will already have Google bots on it. I have also built a link to this page on another forum (http://www.topix.com/forum/za/bloemf...9HJF0#lastPost) and pinged it, (Which actually has a higher Alexa rating than this site, and will be a great link for both Dave and a back link of a back link for my own (ours now) purposes. You will also notice I back link referenced that site through this one too. Not many people realize how important that can be (I guess no one ever mentions it on Youtube). I have now are given the same Google Bot the opportunity to see my site 3 times through 3 different legitimate and well viewed crawling parameters. What do you rate the little bastard is going to report to head office? It also (beautifully so) creates a scenario where my competitors can't use opensite explorer (Another Moz tool that can only analyze direct back links to your site) to check where all mine and my clients back links are and see exactly how efficient I am at hiding them without losing effectiveness. I am fine relaying that little bit of information, as there are plenty more little things like that that no one thinks of (or doesn't say) that I have stored in my noggin. I also didn't have the aim of learning this to do it myself, I got asked by my previous employer to open an office in SA due to my ability in the industry. I have been a business owner in one form or another my whole life, and this isn't some fly by night thing I will be over in 6 months when someone offers me a job. I still have a business I created at 17 ticking over with no more than 2 hours a week involvement and pays for my flights to the UK every 6 months.

I also don't mind giving you assistance if you ask. If it was your intention to bait advice, you don't have to. As I said, I am happy to teach what I know, it is the whole purpose of the internet. I also see you don't have the top spot just yet, so below is a quick list of a few things that you can do to improve your site. How would you like to kick the 4 seasons off the top? You can if you take these things under advisement and implement them as soon as you can:

- Lose the sub pages. It is miles better to create LINKS within your actual site to other pages. Make every page on your website a main page, and hide them off the menu. Even your own website is giving you links, and you need to utilize this as best you can. Having your website link internally well and aesthetically / functionally can be challenging, but it is definitely worth the reward. You are more than welcome to check out my site map on how I have achieved this. I think I handled it alright. Tips would be appreciated though if you have found something that can be improved on?

- Images: Your image should be labeled simply 'Guest house Klerksdop'. Your slide show should also not be embedded, and rather images that slide across that you can give direct names to.

- Social Media: You need to show your social media on your home page. It is difficult to get to them from a visitor and a Google Bot (They appear in line 321+ of your code on the contact page). I am not familiar with Joomla, but I know wordpress has some fantastic plug ins to have your social media appear nicely down your page. I am sure you read a Google page from somewhere that would have stated the importance of content towards the top of the site? I learned wordpress from Youtube, so I am sure you are able too. If you register a domain and practice on there, then you should have no qualms...  :Smile: 

- Utilizing Google within your site: Where are your Google maps on the actual site? You also don't appear on the maps in search for 'Guest house Klerksdop' too? You need to rectify this as soon as possible. I see you use Google + and Youtube though, which is great. I started the whole journey by putting myself in the shoes of the CEO of Google. What would I then want from people trying to rank their site? Google have numerous products, and I would imagine that they would want you to use all of them. In conjunction with Moz tools I also use Google Analytics, webmaster tools, I have an open Adwords and Adsense account and use their business apps to handle a few aspects. These are all linked to my site too, and they are all free (The Google ones anyway. Moz tools is 100 Dollars US per month after your 1st month free trial). 

- Your rel=canonical: You will see if you go to your site, your bar will not have a www. before your domain name, but on Google it will if you look for your business directly. This means you don't have a rel=canonical on your website, which is the main reason you aren't ranking high. A rooky mistake if it is your first time building a website (I did it too), but really hard to fix once you have buggered it up. Believe it or not, you are actually competing against yourself for traffic. When you installed Joomla, (If it is any similar to wordpress?), you would have had a drop down that had the following options: (HTTP://) (HTTP://WWW.) (HTTPS://) etc. It is set default to (HTTP://), and you didn't change it to (HTTP://WWW). With no rel=canonical tag, Google is indexing the www. version (that you are so actively displaying and linking to) and the actual site as 2 completely different entities. What you have accidentally done in real world perspective is tied a rope to one arm, and are using the other arm to pull it and hit yourself in the face. This Youtube video explains it better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm9onOGTgeM) which is actually uploaded by Google themselves. You have created duplicate content on the internet, and it has hit you hard (Basically for people who aren't going to be bothered watching that, in Layman terms, Google has indexed the (HTTP/:WWW) domain, but it is the exact duplicate of the (HTTP://), and Google thinks you are being naughty by stealing other peoples content and demotes you. As all the link building and traffic is going through the (HTTP://WWW), the original site (HTTP://) doesn't get a chance to rank. A rel=canonical tells Google they are the same site and not to worry). "Ctrl & U" your website to see the code, and "Ctrl & F" to find, you will see I am right. Moz actually gives the rel = canonical the most important rating in regards to your SEO. An example of this is if you do this to my site, you will see the code in line 35. 

- Some side tips: You need to create fresh content that will bring visitors to your site besides them looking for a guest house, but are still specific. Off the top of my head, how about a page that shows what someone can actually do in Klerksdop? I live near OR Tambo, and I have no inkling to go to Klerksdop for anything. Show me why I must come, and then viola; looks like I am on a website that shows me where I can stay too (Which generates you income!). Provide those businesses (The ones who provide stuff to do) with links, and ask for them to be reciprocated. Show them this thread to prove the importance of it! This is why I have my "Bro Code", so people who are trying to understand why their toilet won't flush, can find out and then are one click away from my number). Also, change your URL to www(PLEASE DON'T FORGET IT THIS TIME).Mascarene-Guest-House.co.za. This has a keyword in the URL. Build the new site on wordpress (From my understanding it is the most Google friendly CMS. It will also automatically install a rel=canonical line). Point the current domain to the new one so you don't lose links (They will be diluted slightly though, but better than starting again! This can be done through a quick call to your domain host). This will sit you back in the dumbass chair along with myself, waiting for your domain to reach 3 months, but shit happens I am afraid. I can guarantee you will have grown your business by 50% in the next 6 months though if you follow my advice.

If you need more advice though, and there is plenty of it, I start charging South African Rands  :Stick Out Tongue:  ... As previously mentioned, there are nearly 300 things Google looks for, and Youtube will tell you about 30 which are probably true, and a standard SEO expert in SA (judging by the quality of sites in SA) in the region of 40. I'm not going to give you my magic number though  :Wink:  I'm just a classy guy like that... Let me know if you need any physical help with sorting this out though. I actually went through the rel=canonical error myself the first time round with plumberbros.co.za; and had to start all over again with plumber-bros.co.za... It is a ball ache, but it is the only way you will bring customers through Google without paying for adwords / Googling your business name directly. I only realized this 2 months into the project when I was getting angry that I wasn't even on page 5 yet... I just knew wordpress did it and didn't investigate (LIKE A MORON). I guess this is why SEO people should stay away from building  :Stick Out Tongue:  Anyway I am fixed now, and the new domain got registered 2 weeks ago, so we still have a while to go. But I know I am miles ahead of my competition for these keywords, and that is why I can so confidently state what I have  :Stick Out Tongue:  Look forward to admiring the view from the top with you. 

Kyle

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## TheElectrician

Hi PMBGuy,

Thanks a lot :P

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## IMHO

Thanks for the tips Kyle. And no, I was not fishing. I am actually prepared to pay ZAR for service, so will look you up in three months again.

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## IMHO

Kyle, if you really want to impress me, tell me what ukarimo dot co.za and lekkeslaap dot co.za is doing. Use Klerksdorp accommodation as keyword. They are amazing with what they achieve in ads. 

BTW, the site in my sig. is not my main site. My main site is so bad, I am ashamed to show it here. I am working on the new one though. mascarene was a trial run. There is another challenge for you. What is my main site. hehe, actually easy peasy.

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## TheElectrician

Good morning IMHO,

I realized last night that after I posted the thread, someone might take the opportune moment to register the open domain name http://www.mascarene-guest-house.co.za and attempt to charge you an extortionate amount of money for it. It has been known to happen, some people are just messed up. I have registered it on your behalf, and will do a domain name transfer as soon as you are ready? It only cost like R14.00, so don't worry about it. It also gets you one day closer to that 3 month target  :Wink:  The monthly installments are R36.00 I think? Not much more if it is, so it should be affordable from that point of view... If you point your existing domain, the whole thing will work out to about R50 a month. This will also allow you to keep your existing email address / accounts etc. It is going to be a bit of a shlep rearranging your Google accounts, I would suggest starting from scratch if I was you, it makes it easier. If that is not an option, you have a bit of a ball ache in front of you. 

I also installed Wordpress on the website, making sure there is no chance of a rel=canonical mess up like last time, and if you "Ctrl & U" the website, you will see the code in line 30. Once I have transferred the domain to your name (Preferably if you are with Afrihost, or open an account there), I will email you the WP log in details and you can take it from there in regards to changing it around / the themes etc. I will also email you the source file I built the theme on, so if you make a mistake, it can be quickly fixed by uploading the source file. I am also in no ways a designer, so I won't be offended if you change things around. The source code should stay the same, so go mad with themes etc. Just from an SEO point of view, I would like to point out a couple of things:

- Your site is now fully responsive. What this means is that it will fold in on itself if you shrink the browser (try it!). This is ideal as people will obviously be on different sized screens due to the various platforms, and will have the same user experience. There will be no more sliding left / right on a phone to get to contact details etc. It also significantly assists with load time.

- Your logo is now text. I don't know how important this is to you, but it is easy enough to change if you want to revert. Please however try and keep the H2, as it is key words in a slogan. 

- Page names. Hold your mouse over the tab icon in your browser. These are now content rich, but not spam.

- 3 coloured blocks all have a H1 heading. They are also obviously keywords. Please try not to remove them. (The text anyway). 

- The Youtube link you have been providing was for Joomla, and not for yourself. You might want to check that and put it in properly?

- Please keep my link at the bottom referencing Web Vitality.

- I only optimized the home page (well kinda) and the contact page. I have also ensured your permalinks all sit at the same level, with you no longer having links like : johnny.co.za/blah/blah/blah/what-i-want. It will always be johnny.co.za/what-I-want. This will stop your own internal links from diluting. You will also see I added in a Google Map that allows the user to get directions from wherever they are in the world through whatever means of transport. You no longer have to provide directions from other landmarks. You must play around on that map, it can be quite fun.

- Please keep the plugins I use to yourself.

- I have done on page graders for the following things:

- Guest House (www.mascarene-guest-house.co.za) (A)
- Conference Centre (www.mascarene-guest-house.co.za) (B)
- Wedding (www.mascarene-guest-house.co.za) (B)

- Guest House (www.mascarene.co.za) (F) 
- Conference Centre (www.mascarene.co.za) (F)
- Wedding (www.mascarene.co.za) (F)

- Guest House Klerksdorp (www.mascarene-guest-house.co.za/klerksdorp) (B) (No content has been added yet though)

Your competitors in Klerksdorp for the keywords 'Guest house':

- #http://www.#everwood#.za.com/ (B)
- #http://www.#fourseasonsklerksdorp#.co.za/ (B)
- #http://www.#ukarimu#.co.za/ (C)
- #http://www.#twinsguesthouse#.co.za/ (B).

So for the keyword, you are, at least on page value alone, a better site than them. Obviously I have left you  shit load of work to do in regards to getting the site 100% complete, but I don't think you could of asked for a better start? If you want help sorting it out, I will be able to have the thing sorted for you 100% by the end of the day, with a full breakdown of Moz reports emailed to you tonight. However if that is what you want, we are in the area that is talking rands... Let me know.

Kyle

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## TheElectrician

all martins

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## TheElectrician

Your Ukaremu buddies actually have a very poor backlink profile. In regards to SEO, they are only propagating due to lack of competition.  However they do have absolutely beautiful rooms etc at their premises, so I can imagine that word of mouth is one of their strongest agents.

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## IMHO

> Your Ukaremu buddies actually have a very poor backlink profile. In regards to SEO, they are only propagating due to lack of competition.  However they do have absolutely beautiful rooms etc at their premises, so I can imagine that word of mouth is one of their strongest agents.


No, I am referring to their ranking on Google adwords. They are always between 1 and 3. ALWAYS! Lekkeslaap again get a lot of display ads shown. 

Why?

What are we talking about in Rands? You can PM me if you do not want to show it here.

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## TheElectrician

Do you like the design and the functionality? This can be changed but I need your opinion, as ultimately it is yours that counts... I can also add features like an online booking form etc. Also, you will be showing up in about 6 - 8 weeks I would guess, as I checked the actual strength of keywords you are targeting, and it is very low. So that is an encouraging sign. How about you give me a price you are happy with, and we negotiate from there. I am not getting you on the front page for 'bank' or 'medical aid' and don't expect R300k or anything. (However, if you are offering  :Wink:  ...)

RE the keywords, they have set their bids a lot higher than the Google asking price. Obviously Google wants more cash, so makes it the most expensive ppc show first. This is an extraordinary waste of money, as if they are in such a low competed word, they could technically hire me once off, and then never have to pay Google again. Also, I don't know if you have come across the stats in your independent research, but in 2009 they did a test using high speed cameras and focused on peoples eyes when they were Googling something. The camera then created a heat map on the screen to show where most people look and click. The ads only get about 9% of traffic, with the pages ranked 1,2 and 3 getting over 55%. If you have used adwords in the past, I'm sure you can relate to spending more than actually bringing in on some days, and sometimes it isn't worth the gamble.

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## IMHO

> Do you like the design and the functionality? This can be changed but I need your opinion, as ultimately it is yours that counts... I can also add features like an online booking form etc.


Are we talking mascarene. If so, no, I am happy as it is. Online booking is something I steer away from on purpose. Our booking system is too flexible for that.




> Also, you will be showing up in about 6 - 8 weeks I would guess,


Mascarene is already hitting page one, on occasion, so why the delay? Or are you talking about the domain change? I would have rather taken the domain out with my host, Afrihost, as it is now going to be all sorts of drama.

Just something about Mascarene. I use it mainly as an overflow, when Housemartin is fully booked. That enables me to keep expenses down. I do not need staff, I switch of geysers and all non essentials and things like that. When I get an overflow or big booking, I open Mascarene up.




> as I checked the actual strength of keywords you are targeting, and it is very low. So that is an encouraging sign.


I do not understand what you mean. I am not running a campaign on it and I am not targeting any keywords on puppose. I guess I did use them though, for when I do start a campaign. You say the strength is very low. Suppose I am not understanding again. You do not get a stronger phrase than 'klerksdorp accommodation' and 'accommodation klerksdorp'. I am sure I used those all over.




> How about you give me a price you are happy with, and we negotiate from there. I am not getting you on the front page for 'bank' or 'medical aid' and don't expect R300k or anything. (However, if you are offering  ...)


Nope. You set your price. I want you to break down all the items you want to implement into a quantity. I will then divide the price by that qty and get an item price. I am not giving you access to the site back-end. You tell me, one item at a time, what to do and I implement it. I then pay you for that item once it is actioned, or it goes on your bill, as you wish.




> RE the keywords, they have set their bids a lot higher than the Google asking price. Obviously Google wants more cash, so makes it the most expensive ppc show first. This is an extraordinary waste of money, as if they are in such a low competed word, they could technically hire me once off, and then never have to pay Google again.


 So here you talk ukarimo and adwords. I do not think that is what is happening. They are a small, hidden away guesthouse and not great looking from the outside. I doubt they will be spending big money on adwords. Lekkeslaap maybe yes. In any case, my bids is dbl or triple page one est bid and it does not have the effect.




> Also, I don't know if you have come across the stats in your independent research, but in 2009 they did a test using high speed cameras and focused on peoples eyes when they were Googling something. The camera then created a heat map on the screen to show where most people look and click. The ads only get about 9% of traffic, with the pages ranked 1,2 and 3 getting over 55%. If you have used adwords in the past, I'm sure you can relate to spending more than actually bringing in on some days, and sometimes it isn't worth the gamble.


It comes and goes. I know I can not do without adwords. The clicks is there, the conversions not so much. So, people click on different sites and then I lose them. I am working on that on my new site. It will be responsive and geared towards mobile devices. I see yours is as well.
http://quirktools dot com/screenfly/#u=http%3A//www.plumber-bros.co.za/&w=360&h=640&a=38&s=1

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## Mark Atkinson

Oh boy, I love threads like this. Here we go!  :Big Grin: 

There's too much here for me to dissect in one go, so I'm going to have a go at cherry-picking some of the things that stand out most to me. 




> Fair enough reply,* I did however provide the option to check my claims through Moz.com*, which is the worlds leading SEO analysis tool.


Why thank you, I don't mind if I do.  :Wink:  

You were very quick to claim great gradings through Moz's tools, but you don't point out which keywords you're supposedly optimising well for. 

Before I nitpick, I would just like to point out that an A grading from Moz on your pages' on-site optimisation does not make you an SEO expert, nor does it guarantee you a top ranking in Google, in 3 months or ever. I've seen F-graded pages rank better for terms than A-graded pages. In fact, judging performance based on the Moz page grading tool is so distorted that I don't even use that tool anymore. This is more because under-optimisation is still better than over-optimisation, which can totally destroy your performance. Unfortunately Moz does not measure over-optimisation. 

So for all your claims of having the most well optimised sites in the industry, I found the following in about 2 minutes: (On the Plumbing Bros website, Electrician Bros seems similar)

- You have multiple H1 tags! How on earth is Google supposed to distinguish what your page is about when your heading structure suggests that everything on a page is of equal importance? Matt Cutts has been cited on multiple occasions condemning the use of more than one H1 tag. 

- Your home page has two meta descriptions. 

- Despite having said yourself in a post that the Meta Keywords tag provides zero benefit to your website (and can cause more harm than good, actually), you have implemented the tag on both your websites. 

- The content on your website, for the most part, addresses problems and not solutions. Considering people looking for a plumber are generally going to be looking for solutions, your content is sub-optimal. As an example: You have a page addressing "Burst Geysers" as opposed to "Burst Geyser repairs" which is more likely to be searched for. The lack of specificity is going to kill a new website - being vague/trying to rank for broader terms is not the solution when you're trying to get your initial rankings up. 

- You used Artisteer to create the theme. Artisteer produces some of the most bloated code I've ever seen and is buggy as all hell. I'd rather use Wordpress' default theme than use Artisteer, and I hate the default Wordpress theme. 

- I haven't even begun to address conversion optimisation here, but I would like to just point out that it's almost non-existent on the sites you pointed us to. Getting traffic to a site is all fine and dandy, but if it's the wrong traffic or if you don't guide them through a funnel to the point that they contact you, then your efforts are wasted. As the saying goes, I'd rather have 1000 customers than 1 million views. 

<hr /><hr />

Now, let's talk a bit about duplicate content. Surely, as a professional SEO, you know that duplicate content is a bad thing? Assuming you do, then I have the following questions:

1. Why is your own website, webvitality.co.za almost a word-for-word copy of your site in the UK, webvitality.co.uk? I hope you don't lean on the "they're in different regions, it doesn't matter" argument, because you wouldn't be more wrong. Google doesn't ignore duplicate content from different hemispheres, countries or regions. Duplicate content is duplicate content is duplicate content and you're damaging the chances for both websites, but more so the newer one, by having a direct copy of the UK version. 

2. Why would you create a site that competes directly with IMHO's current site without no-indexing it? I looked in the robots file as well as for a meta tag that conveys a no-index rule, so if I missed it, I'm sorry. But by doing this (I'm assuming to try and solicit business from IMHO) you have now created yet another thing for him to compete with. Having two sites about the same thing dilutes the results for both. He doesn't win, his competitors do. 

<hr /><hr />

I'd like to spend some time clearing up some misguided information now.




> -My business name has the keyword people will Google, as does my URL. I also have pages like /Johannesburg /Pretoria etc, as if someone types in 'plumber Durban', the page http://www.plumber-bros.co.za/durban will have their search directly in the URL.
> -My slogan has a keyword in it (Don't sleep with a drip, call a PLUMBER).
> -My logo is text, not an image (Besides the spanner). It is also an H1 (First heading), so Google knows it is a plumbing website, and 'plumber' is the most important thing here.
> -I have many links to social media.
> -I offer other forms of relevant and informative advice that would drive traffic from other sources http://www.plumber-bros.co.za/bro-code. 
> -My content is keyword rich (The word plumber is on my home page alone more than 14 times).
> -My physical page names are all keyword rich.


It almost feels as though you learned SEO 5-6 years ago and then didn't bother doing any reading on the subject thereafter. 

1. A keyword-heavy URL is fast becoming more of a liability than an asset. Google is ranking *brands* over keyword-rich domains. Sure, there are such domains that still perform well, but it's by no means a very important factor anymore.

2.It's all very well having a keyword in your slogan and a logo that is text, but what on earth is that doing for your brand? People don't remember text logos and the benefit you gain from it (if any) is not worth the sacrifice you're making. I offer web design, e-commerce, social media management, Facebook app development, SEO, PPC Campaign management, email marketing, graphic design, branding & consulting. Should I throw all of that into my slogan to rank better? 




> *The trick is to have your keyword anywhere between 4-6% of your text* in well written and well constructed sentences.


No! Oh heavens, no! You simply *cannot* be an advocate of specific keyword density in 2013/14! This will do you way more harm than good. I've never counted counted keywords in my copy since the day I started my own business and I rank perfectly well for several of my target keywords. Please, write about your topic in a natural manner that is useful to your audience. Keyword density means *nothing.*

Here's an infographic I did: http://redgiantdesign.co.za/rg-desig...fographic.html 
It has over 20,000 visits this year and is on the first page for a number of search terms. There's very little text on the page and the words "Joomla" and Wordpress" only form 1-2% of the post. I'm willing to bet that I could remove the words Joomla and Wordpress completely from the body of text completely and still rank the same. Seriously, there are way more important things to be concentrating on than keyword density.  :Rant1: 




> Lose the sub pages. It is miles better to create LINKS within your actual site to other pages. Make every page on your website a main page, *and hide them off the menu*. Even your own website is giving you links, and you need to utilize this as best you can. Having your website link internally well and aesthetically / functionally can be challenging, but it is definitely worth the reward.


What? Hide them off the menu? Why would Google *ever* want somebody to sacrifice user-friendly navigation for the sake of performing better in their search engine? Internal linking is important yes, but seeing as your menu *is a form of internal linking* there is absolutely no reason why you should hide pages off your menu. (Other than to improve the user-friendliness of your site by only displaying relevant items to them)
The key is to make sure that any important page on your site is accessible within 2 levels of your landing page. (So 2 clicks away) This is achieved via sitemaps, menus and strong internal linking. 




> Your rel=canonical: You will see if you go to your site, your bar will not have a www. before your domain name, but on Google it will if you look for your business directly. This means you don't have a rel=canonical on your website, which is the main reason you aren't ranking high. A rooky mistake if it is your first time building a website (I did it too), but really hard to fix once you have buggered it up.


I think the Youtube video on rel=canonical may have misguided you on this a little bit.  :Whistling: 

A canonical tag is not the optimal solution for a www./non-www. duplicate content issue. A 301 redirect is. What IMHO *should* be doing is redirecting one of the versions to the other, so as to consolidate the two completely and remove any duplications. By adding a rel=canonical tag to try and solve this, you're saying "it's okay that I have two versions of my website with the same content, but I prefer this one." 

Don't get me wrong, rel=canonical tags are great and you could probably incorporate them site-wide if you really want to, but they definitely aren't exactly the same thing as a proper permanent redirect. 

Since you seem to like Moz a lot (who doesn't), here's an article to back all this up and enlighten you further on the use of rel=canonical.

<hr /><hr />

It may seem like I'm being a little ruthless here, but let's dwell on why I'm so decidedly pedantic about this by being constructive. You say no other plumbing site in SA can match your optimisation. Here's one that I found that is absolutely *killing* their SEO: http://www.plumbersjohannesburg.com/

They have *multiple* no. 1 and 2 rankings for absolutely brilliant money-words (keywords that are more likely to convert) such as "Plumber Johannesburg", "Geyser repairs Johannesburg" and "Kitchen Renovations Johannesburg." 

Let's quickly explore *why* they're doing so well:

- Their pages are all very well optimised. Very good title tag usage, *proper heading structure/hierarchy*, good meta data, etc.

- They have fantastic call-to-actions and an easily accessible contact form on every landing page, so I can imagine they're getting a pretty darn good conversion rate. 

- They have loads of great content that addresses solutions to people's problems but, more importantly, *they have a page filled with good content dedicated to each of these key problems/solutions*. This, coupled with their solid internal linking, allows them to rank for a range of great keywords. You'll notice that it's not their home page ranking for all the keywords (except "Plumber Johannesburg" and variations), it's all those dedicated landing pages that they've set up.

- They've secured themselves a Google+ local business listing, which goes a long way to helping them rank for all those local terms. They also do a good job of optimising for even more specific locations by having unique content for different areas in JHB, all on separate landing pages. 

Man, these guys are doing such a good job with their SEO it actually makes my day to see it. It's not difficult to do, it's raw "do the big things that matter" SEO. Nothing cute about it, it's just effective. And that's all you need in a field that's not very competitive folks. Plumbers, electricians, guest houses in Klerksdorp, etc. - These are all areas where the business owners can excel in online by doing some of their own SEO. You don't need to be paying thousands of Rands a month to somebody to do it for you. A little guidance here and there, sure, but that's all you need in addition to some of your time. The return will be worth it.  :Wink:  

@TheElectrician - I appreciate your enthusiasm for the topic, but it pains me to see information being spread that has the potential to harm a website more than help it. Many of your points are right on the money, but teaching outdated SEO to folks who don't know better is recipe for disaster. At the very least, appreciate the fact that if you're going to invite criticism, you can bet your bottom dollar that somebody like me is going to call you out on false claims, particularly in an industry as volatile and tricky as SEO/inbound marketing. 

Well, this was fun. Looking forward to the replies.

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## Mark Atkinson

> As previously mentioned, there are nearly 300 things Google looks for, and Youtube will tell you about 30 which are probably true, and a standard SEO expert in SA (judging by the quality of sites in SA) in the region of 40. I'm not going to give you my magic number though  I'm just a classy guy like that...


Things Google Looks For

Sorry, I'm not a classy guy.  :Wink:

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## vieome

I always wonder, hypothetical scenario, 100 companies (same line of business) fighting to be number 1 on Google, 100 SEO masters, who wins? 

On another note, I often notice that Google is in a sense customizing my Google search I use on my computer, as at times when I search for same product from different computer I get different results. Another point if I Google a product today, a few days later if I visit an un-related site I often see the advertising was for a product I have Goggled.  And that brings to mind a question, How does one optimize their site for a search engine which is continually trying to optimize itself?

Now if a given company sells 50 products, can the SEO expert get it to be number one for each product search, or do they find one product, or one keyword which is then used as the selling point for good SEO skills?
I understand they are many tools, tricks and tips for Optimization, and some do work, but in my humble opinion, the GOD Google eventually gets to decide, and if that GOD is after advertising revenue, then there are no guarantees.  

case in point 2 sites exactly the same, keywords, products, exactly same optimizing skills put to each who ranks number one. Only difference being name of site.

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## IMHO

> case in point 2 sites exactly the same, keywords, products, exactly same optimizing skills put to each who ranks number one. Only difference being name of site.


Well, then money gets to be the deciding factor. Also, if I throw enough money at the problem, I will be number 1. If I want to beat Wiki, i do not know...

The whole idea of SEO, is to minimise the money spend.

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## vieome

I agree, the point I was trying to make, it cost to Hire a SEO expert, so not much saving. If you going to spend better to spend on the GOD himself, than on expert SEO company that claim they can defeat the GOD. To get to the point more clearly, one only has to google SEO company, say for instance if you were looking for a company to do SEO for your site , google brings up about 56000 results, let's argue, that is the top SEO companies coming up(the cream of the crop), which you would expect cause it is a service they offer. I am sure many of the members here will have a good laugh at who number one is on google.

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## vieome

Just an addition , say for your site, your optimization would before guest house in klerksdorp 
But it is easy to notice that the Google algorithm in a search for those keywords ranks sites better if they instead  use Klerksdorp Guest Houses as the optimizer keyword on they site they are ranked better by Google in searches for guest house in Klerksdorp. What I know about SEO one can write on the back of a stamp. 

When you
INPUT in search guest house in klerksdorp 
You would expect Google to search exactly like that but instead the algorithm is looking for

Klerksdorp Guest Houses.

So add that to your site and see if it improves your page rank. 


Edit : Corrected some spelling errors by simple right clicking on words underlined in red

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## IMHO

> So add that to your site and see if it improves your page rank.


We do about 60 variants of all the combinations of Klerksdorp, Guesthouse, B&B, Lodge, Hotel, Accommodation

Then you also have a thing called broad match. So Google also include other weird searches, in stead of matching a specific phrase. You can change that so it would match only specific phrases.

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## vieome

> We do about 60 variants of all the combinations of Klerksdorp, Guesthouse, B&B, Lodge, Hotel, Accommodation


I hear you, based on the body of SEO knowledge that says it should be so? I am saying ignore all that and simply add Klerksdorp Guest Houses to the front page of your site. We seek a complicated equation to exploit google, but sometimes google is looking for a simple answer.

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## TheElectrician

What’s up Mark,

Right, I do intend this in the nicest possible way, and it is all banter and in the spirit of learning (No need to pr0n link each other) but you really need to proof read. The contradictions you have made in that post are actually quite disturbing to read. This is normal for your faction of SEO, where the proof tends to come from another source, and no independent thought has been intertwined with your regurgitated results. You are really clued up bud, but you are arguing another man’s cause…

I’m going to start with the Moz thing you brought up in the beginning, and I will give you the satisfaction of letting you know targeted keywords and results:

www.plumber-bros.co.za (Plumber) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za (Electrician) (A)
www.plumber-bros.co.za/bloemfontein (Plumber Bloemfontein) (A)
www.plumber-bros.co.za/cape-town (Plumber Cape Town) (A)
www.plumber-bros.co.za/durban (Plumber Durban) (A)
www.plumber-bros.co.za/johannesburg (Plumber Johannesburg) (A)
www.plumber-bros.co.za/pretoria (Plumber Pretoria) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za/bloemfontein (Electrician Bloemfontein) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za/cape-town (Electrician Cape Town) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za/durban (Electrician Durban) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za/johannesburg (Electrician Johannesburg) (A)
www.electrician-bros.co.za/pretoria (<Electrician Pretoria) (A)

(12 A graded pages for highly Googled phrases, excluding every page in the BC etc.)

While I fully understand that this doesn’t quantify me as an SEO expert as I can cite the most popular SEO forum on the web, I would like you to bear in mind your statement regarding ‘I have seen F-graded pages rank better than A-graded pages’. Also, could you please give me an example of this, and for a search term that actually generates traffic too please? The only instance where this is remotely possible in my mind is for two reasons:

- Bad links and trolls / comments on the ‘A page’, but the ‘F Page’ wouldn’t top the entire search, so long as they all had the same authority / AR.
-A super high level domain posts a wank article but references a search term, and is allowed to propagate over a long duration of time.

If you are correct with this assumption, then it makes the idea of ripping my metatags and H1 nonsensical? I’m going to go hop from one thing to another if that’s fine, just to try wrap my answers up as quick as possible. Let’s go to my sites now, which you rightfully ripped a new one into. I didn’t build the Web Vitality one, it sort of got thrust on me. They are doing me a favour over there, and I haven’t even paid much attention to it. As far as I am actually concerned anyway, it doesn’t matter what your site is like as an SEO company, so long as you sort your clients out. Let people focus on their shit, I would rather focus on clients. I have done that and then some more. I made it pretty clear from the beginning that I don’t build websites, and these 2 were my first instances (Well second, I didn’t rel=canonical the first batch). Sure they need some heavy cleaning up in regards to the H1 tags etc, but I thought even an F page can outrank an A page?  :Wink:  My speciality however lies in the process of link building and revenue returns from the actual sites. Creating ideas based around the internet. This is where the imagination of SEO lies and where I find my passion. Places where there are no ultimately defined formulas and everything is a game. I have looked at some of your clients’ websites you have done SEO for (tricky to find), and they don’t have anywhere near a link profile that is able to keep them out of reach if a major competitor starts knocking. Your backlinks are also very predictable, and I can only imagine you thinking of the task as a chore rather than fun? In fact you say absolutely nothing in regards to my comments on links and link building? I am sorry if that is true, it is actually the best part of SEO. Ironically also the most important part as you pointed out with your link to the Moz guide (Which is a best guess, not actually anything tangible. We don’t know 100% for sure for anyone who read that). 

You also mention the other keywords I went for, and state quite a few things without what appears to be any premeditated thought? If I have a national plumbing / electrician company, surely Google will pick that up as a brand when the time comes for us to get the updates and the new algorithms take place here? I know there are key words in it, but what company doesn’t? Google has no way of quantifying how many of the traffic sources are actually paying customers. I have my sites generating different types of traffic for different things. Just a quick one I’ll throw out there, but I have found one of the best ways to generate vast amounts of traffic for a site without sourcing a link is through Gumtree. Simply advertise a vacancy and tell people to apply through your website (Which is located in the image).  As far as SEs could pick up, I could have just played a radio ad or something. I’ve got loads of little tricks like this. There are so many ways to generate traffic without links, (Almost like creating ‘corporate awareness’ for the brand, as people tend to Google my site directly rather than type it in in their URL search bar). The website doesn’t need to make money today, you can play games and wait it out. It puts pressure on the fun. A similar approach MZ took with Facebook (Obviously I’m not comparing the sites, just the strategies behind getting them to grow). I think you suffer what many people in the industry do, and you put the Google on a pedestal, and focus too much on immediate gratification. The whole point of SEO is to effectively work with, but ultimately outsmart the SEs. 

My personal project in regards to the P&E sites, I think the idea of combining what is now and what will be to create a power house website is actually quite clever. I say will be, as you do know that the different Google domains actually run different versions of the algorithm? What you are reading about what is happening in US and UK, isn’t happening here. A prime example you can test yourself right now is the new Hummingbird update. It has allegedly been out in the States for 6 weeks, and I have seen some of the awesome interactive features it brings with the search bar.  Combined with this is the ability to understand pronouns from related searches and process if I am looking for a business or an answer. Guess what? Google.co.za doesn’t have this yet, and as such we aren’t in this update yet, and still playing by old rules. I’m sure if you go through a Proxy you will see this. Further combined with this, the actual people who use Google.co.za. I know this sounds strange to some readers, but most South Africans actually don’t know how to effectively search Google, and are often still giving it keywords. In America, the average search term has gone up to over 5 words, while in SA it is under 4. Sometimes it is very easy to forget how backwards a nation we are in regards to the internet etc. (For those who don’t know, Google actually supply a 1GB/s line to domestic homes for around $50 a month in the US). While people in USA and that are saying rather provide a solution as that is what people look for, that is area specific. This is where thought and reason come into play, and people can use ideas that are successful abroad and localize them. The whole thing relies on imagination, you got to remember that. Be original and break the rules in a clever way. That is how I have helped my clients, and it actually what is going to be needed when the industry starts to saturate, like it will in the next 3-4 years. 

In regards to your site IMHO, I will explain most parts to the best of my knowledge, but Mark is going to have to step in on one little details, and you can check from there? When I looked at your current site, there are a few things

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## IMHO

Kyle, I did explain that I do not want to improve on that site at this stage. Please stop doing things I did not request. I am doing my own thing. I am obviously not giving everything I do through on here. Thanks.

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## expresplumbers24

It depends on the SEO techniques that you are using to top rank in Google. You must choose an expert SEO to do the job for you because they really know on how to boost your page in Google.

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## Dave A

Sometimes it's fascinating coming back to a thread a few years later. In this case, the electrician-bros website is gone, and the plumber-bros website sells e-liquids for e-cigarettes.

Go figure  :Crazy:

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## SilverNodashi

> Sometimes it's fascinating coming back to a thread a few years later. In this case, the electrician-bros website is gone, and the plumber-bros website sells e-liquids for e-cigarettes.
> 
> Go figure


and the SEO expert who signed up recently is really an expert?

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