# General Business Category > Technology Forum >  Internet connectivity in South Africa

## Dave S

Having a look at the various options for connectivity is a real pain, esp. if you are a novice. ADSL, 3G, HSDPA, Satelite... and the list goes on. I signed with IBurst and had 7-days to test the product, I tested and tested, the download transfer rates were what I was looking at, on a connection of 1Mb i'm only getting (average) 28.9KB/s transfer rate, surely this should be a lot closer to 128KB/s? Contact my supplier, they send technicians to install all sorts of expensive antenas and signal enhancers, so transfer goes up to 33.7KB/s but fluctuates between 6.9KB/s and 57.7KB/s, ok, take down all these expensive antenas and we're back to 32.2KB/s with a fluctuation between 19.9KB/s and 44.3KB/s, at least a little better, my AVG updates don't download to well with massive fluctuations. The point I'm trying to make, when is the supplier legally bound to provide the service that one pays for? Surely a 1Mb connection should be held to certain rules, say, between 700Kb (87.5KB/s) and 1Mb (128KB/s) that's 300Kb or 37.5KB/s difference would be acceptable fluctuation? Even this would not be what I would consider as "Best effort" (another vague clause in these contracts), How does one solve the problem?

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## RKS Computer Solutions

So I take it your 7 day grace period is gone...

Problem is in the contract itself whereby the companies themselves leave so many loopholes for themselves to give crappy service...  Family of mine is in JHB and he also only got decent connection speeds on IBurst once he installed a major antenna on his roof...

Contact them and try and speak to someone higher up the monkey chain, if that fails, try http://hellopeter.com/comp_comment.asp?cid=766 and launch a complaint...  IBurst is one of the companies that do respond to what people are saying on there and that would probably help getting you a decent connection...

Good luck and let us know of the outcome

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## Dave S

Yes, the 7-days are long gone, and I have already spoken with IBurst and in all fairness, they have treated me civilly, the problem is my area is on the back side of a mountain chain and they have a problem with permissions to erect towers, etc. The nearest tower to me is some 10-12Km distant, perhaps in the not-to-distant future they will get to erect something closer, but they do not say that this is on the cards at all, by the by, I'm in Bloubosrand, Randburg.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Did you go for the 24month contract or the month-to-month package?  Might not be a bad idea to get in contact with someone who has HSDPA to spend a few minutes at your place and check out whether or not that might be an option...

One of my clients recently purchased the HSDPA card(2grand) and Vodacom has the new option of buying data bundles which allows for data at 20c/MB which in all fairness seems like it's going to trump any ADSL package hellkom can throw down to the public(disgusting)...

Far as I know Randburg is 100% covered for HSDPA so should not be a problem if you decide to go that way, depends on your contract with IBurst though...

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## Snoopy_inc

i feel for you, the fact that you have fallen into the 24 month contract with a service provider.

I recommend you contact someone that has a good knowledge about wireless and can assist you in that regard.  Dont trust what people tell you until multiple people say that same thing.

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## SilverNodashi

> One of my clients recently purchased the HSDPA card(2grand) and Vodacom has the new option of buying data bundles which allows for data at 20c/MB which in all fairness seems like it's going to trump any ADSL package hellkom can throw down to the public(disgusting)...


This only applies to the very, very expensive data bundles, all other bundles start at higher rates. 

Nothing can beat ADSL's 9c/MB price! And ADSL is also much more "stable", if it's in your area

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Softdux, please draw me a picture...

How do you get to 9c/MB ?

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## SilverNodashi

> Softdux, please draw me a picture...
> 
> How do you get to 9c/MB ?


How much are you paying for ADSL?

I pay R61.40 + VAT = R69.99 pm

R69.99 / 1024 (Yes, 1GB = 1024 Megabytes) = R0.06. 

oops, I made a calculation error earlier on, it's 6c /Mb

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## duncan drennan

You just also need to factor in the ADSL line rental...

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## Dave S

Hi Folks,

I've been reading comments on rentals for ADSL and IBurst and I'm a bit confused about pricing. My Iburst ISP is Interprise and I pay R749.00 p/m, this includes 3 x e mail addresses, all hardware, 3GB cap, 1GB connection. I.E. Total package deal. How does this compare to other suppliers and ADSL? :Confused:  Unfortunately ADSL is not available in my area.

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## Chatmaster

I am not someone that like contracts, infact contracts are imo debt because there are always some surprising costs the was never mentioned.

Question?

So I buy a HSDPA modem cash at Vodacom for R2699 and then buy 2GB Databundle each month (Without a contract) @ R 449.00
Compared to 
Telkom, buy DSL modem @ R350 + R437.50 dsl instalation and then monthly pay  DSL Up to 384kbps @ R152 p/m + line rental @ R245p/m Total monthly as advertised by Telkom = R397p/m (Any hidden costs I missed will be appreciated)

Which is realistically the better deal?
Is the above a true reflection of what I can expect to pay in your experience?

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Softdux, you're missing ADSL line rental as well as telephone line rental.  Do yourself a favor and hop on over to http://www.hellkom.co.za and read about being Unproudly South African!

Dave S, http://www.hellkom.co.za/ispprices/ should give you a better understanding regarding prices.

Welcome Chatmaster!  Realistically speaking, splash on the HSDPA...  It's a bigger upfront layout, but can be written off to TAX and you gain more.  If you take into consideration only speed, 384kbps vs 1.6MB if your coverage is good, it would be like flying a Fokker F100 vs a Supersonic Jet!

At 22c/MB it's a huge bargain, specifically if your on the road or planning to take extended leave of absence from your abode/office and would like to be able to have connectivity wherever you are...

(Does that 397p/m include the bandwidth?)

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## Snoopy_inc

hrm.... maybe i should have posted in this thread a bit sooner :P

ok here is the breakdown of what your costs are going to be including the hidden ones:

Line rental (telephone)
ADSL Line Rental (ADSL Line)
ISP Cost

Those are monthly charges now as for the startup costs

Monthly Rental x2
ISP Cost
ADSL Modem/Router + filter to make your line dual with fax or phone
Labour charges (IT Company or you could do it yourself)

as far as the actual R amounts you looking at a change in august.  There will be a decrease in pricing on the Telkom side of things.

Now as far as recommending a solution.... if you mobile take 3G/HSDPA if you stationary take ADSL (its less expensive and you can do more with it like remote connections etc) If you got the Cash get ADSL + 3G for mobile.  BEST SOLUTION as you can remote into your ADSL line and collect your mail from your local mail server and such things.

If you lost ..... Ask :P

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## stephanfx

I don't like the taking future changes in to a decision that I need to make today, only after ICASA has approved Telkom new charges can one base decisions upon that. Currently Telkom is NOT cheap. Look here

When taking line rental, isp cost (3Gb) and access cost you get *R583.92*
This is for residential line, 3gb advanced access and 384kbps line.

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## Snoopy_inc

do note that the amount you mentioned needs to be multiplied by 2 for startup costs

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## RKS Computer Solutions

No matter which way you look at it, Telkom is still raping this country...

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## stephanfx

There has been so many petitions, boycotts, what-have-yous, and every time they just shrug and say, lets see you try it otherwise. When is there going to be some decent competition for this evil entity? When is Neotel going to try and come up for a taste of the pie?

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Neotel (http://www.neotel.co.za) was supposed to launch for business in JHB/PTA 1 June 2007, but nothing has come of it because the idiots at ICASA is not very keen on getting out of their beds in the morning and actually putting in a decent days work....

Until ICASA gets the finalities sorted, we can only wait with baited breath...

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## Dave A

This whole SNO - Neotel business has taken forever. When it comes to the launch of Neotel services, let's just say I hope it doesn't take them that long to get in a line when you order.

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## stephanfx

I must say that this does not bode well for their service delivery. If one can not meet a launch date, then what can be expected of ones services, never mind the support :P

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## duncan drennan

> I must say that this does not bode well for their service delivery. If one can not meet a launch date, then what can be expected of ones services, never mind the support :P


That's a bit unfair. Most of the delays have been due to things out of their control, namely ICASA and Minister Ivy. There has been much dragging of feet, and Neotel are losing out as a result. Their possible competitive advantage is constantly being eroded by Telkom and the wireless operators. They are operating AFAIK, but just not for residential customers yet.

Check out http://www.neotel.co.za

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## Snoopy_inc

Ok guys. 
I guess its called for me to give you a quick run down of this:

SNO/ Neotel is comprised of multiple coporations that are built together to become the next service provider. They were licensed a while ago by ICASA so ICASA delayed them but they are not the hold up now.

SNO has been hard at work gaining the corporate clients.  We talking about Massive coporates as well as building their so called anchor clients.  They are out there already they just havent opened up market for the end user and small businesses.
I have been very involved in the Telecoms movement and worked on quite a bit. Not to mention im the IRC master for myadsl.co.za. (run the channel for them)

All this info has been posted on myadsl.co.za website. and is available to all to visit and view it.

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## stephanfx

Unfair, maybe a bit, it is just that the other companies (Telkom) set a deadline for 1 August and they meet that deadline, and this is from ICASA ( the approval of new prices). Is there then not a way to support neotel to come to the table earlier, so that the rest of us might be able to benefit somewhat from their existence?

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## Dave A

> All this info has been posted on myadsl.co.za website. and is available to all to visit and view it.


But we were having so much fun in *this* thread  :Big Grin: 
Kinda the short version  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## duncan drennan

If you have a look at Neotel's FAQ, they should be rolling out a residential trial this month.

They had to wait for all the approvals, but now they are busy building the back bone and, as Snoopy pointed out, bringing on their large customers first. Unfortunately it does just take time.

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## stephanfx

okay, sorry Neotel, I just do not want a Telkom line in my life again. My impatience is a negative attribute of my personality, but sometimes it gets the job done just a bit faster  :Smile:  I will wait for them and see what they offer.

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## Snoopy_inc

Can i tell you something.... Saying you want  to move from telkom is like saying you want to cut your air for a short of breath each day.

Let me explain:

Neotel will not go into a price war with Telkom so you wont get better pricing for starters.... secondly they will pull up their pants when neotel really becomes the competition and when that happens im staying with telkom... they have the infrastructure and the setup already.  Maybe in 5 years time or so when they both have similar structures etc then i will look at both as options..... just saying you going to move to neotel cause telkom sucks wont help you and is a very short sighted statment.

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## Dave A

This is a bit like the SAA vs Kalula.com debate.

_Someone_ has to support the underdog if your ever going to stop the big bully from doing whatever it likes.

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## stephanfx

That is exactly what I am, an underdog supporter, except when the Bulls are the underdogs, then I might NOT support the underdogs  :Big Grin:

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Snoopy, are you being paid by Telkom to talk good about them?  Have you been living in the dark ages?  Have you not read a single one of my posts regarding what Telkom is doing to this country?

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## Snoopy_inc

RKS...... my friend and fellow telkom hater.. you are not reading what i am saying.

I have been a dedicated myadsler for years now and hold alot of respect on the forums.(own status etc) --- not that it means much.... but i know alot about telecoms in this country to understand the workings.

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## stephanfx

thanks for the insight snoop, but still I will stick with someone who offers support over invoices  :Smile:  Until then... we can just wait and see, even if it takes 5 years.

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## Snoopy_inc

Stephanfx don't get me wrong.  My statement is on a assumptions that telkom will pull up their socks... if they don't then there isn't a reason to stay with them thats all  :Wink:

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Snoopy, I took your post on face value, which meant Telkom was great...

I respect your myadsl heritage and all but anything run by government showing brutal profits and no advances for the public is an absolute no-go for me...

As Stephan said, I'd rather go with a company that wants to support me than a company that screws up, tells me to just pay the invoice and then they will look at it...  What the hell is up with that?

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## Snoopy_inc

RKS i agree with you wholeheartedly... i think i must try explain myself a bit more..... ill leave that for tomorrow its late and my eyes are sagging  :Wink: 
Anyway post tomorrow some more on this.... maybe i can phrase it so that i dont speak gibberish :P

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## Snoopy_inc

here is something interesting for you to read about neotel :

Neotel has quietly ramped up the deployment of optical fibre routes in Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town and Durban.

Neotel is quietly going about their business of expanding their network and signing up clients.

Quietly progressing

“A lot of work has been going on behind the scenes at Neotel since its entry into the market with wholesale international services last August,” the second national operator said.

Neotel currently carries international voice services for the mobile operators, and provides global Internet transit for major ISPs from its international POP in Johannesburg.

The company has grown to around 170 people, with offices in Cape Town and Durban in addition to its Head Office and National Operations Centre in Johannesburg.

“In acquiring Transtel Telecoms from Transnet, our reach is growing substantially, and we will have a presence at more than 100 places across the country, in addition to international VSAT capability,” Neotel said. The company’s initial focus will however remain on the major metros.

Leased line services launched

With their 10,000 km national network up and running, Neotel has launched its flexible leased line service to select customers.

Amongst these initial customers will be SITA, which recently awarded the contract for its national backbone to Neotel, citing value for money and bandwidth scalability as key to their decision. Neotel said that they have also received high bandwidth leased line orders from several other large customers.

“Delivered using Neotel's Next Generation SDH platform, Neotel's leased line service offers the flexibility of various SDH or Ethernet interfaces, and scalability from 2 to 155 Mbps, within or between major metros in South Africa,” the company said.

Neotel said that that their interfaces allow customers to select the bandwidth that best suits their requirements, rather than having to pay for the next largest bandwidth option. “It represents the first true network diversity available to operators and large enterprises in South Africa.”

Fiber backbone expansion

Neotel has been silently expanding their optical fibre routes in the four major metros namely Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town and Durban. The new deployment augments the 1300 km of fibre routes purchased from Transnet last year, and allows the second national operator to reach deeper into the key business districts of those cities.

“In lighting up these fibres, Neotel is creating the high bandwidth Metropolitan Area Networks (MANs) that are needed to deliver basic transmission services and the broader set of next generation services for enterprises,” Neotel said.

Siemens (with Juniper), Cisco, Huawei, Spescom (with ECI), Tellumat, and Dimension Data have all announced major supply contracts with Neotel.

Neotel Enterprise Services

“Neotel's enterprise services will address the voice, data and Internet connectivity needs of enterprises, through a single, converged network that is already interconnected nationally to all the operators in South Africa, and globally via VSNL International to more than 400 operators,” the operator said.

In the Internet space, Neotel will peer with the major ISPs in South Africa, whilst delivering international traffic from VSNL International's Tier 1 network.

“With the latest generation of optical transmission and IP technology across both the national backbone and metropolitan networks, and with access to capacity globally, Neotel is well positioned to address the bandwidth limitations in the South African market. We are pursuing various options to address the need for affordable international bandwidth, both through SAT-3/SAFE and new submarine fibre systems,” Neotel concluded.

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## duncan drennan

The original story, as posted above, can be found on MyBroadband

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## RKS Computer Solutions

It's great to read an article about what Neotel is doing in the background...  Thanx for the link Duncan...

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## Snoopy_inc

lol..... my bad did i miss putting the url in?... i guess i did.  o well we all human  :Wink:

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## Dave A

As someone who travels a fair bit, there's one observation I'd like to make on connectivity in South Africa.

As a traveller, I get to use my Vodacom HSDPA service all over the place. And there is no doubt - It's way slower and you get far more dropped packets in KZN in comparison to Gauteng.

In my days with Sentech I found much the same thing. Speed and reliability was far better in Gauteng.

I *do* so wish that KZN would get a fair shake on this  :Helpsmilie: 

Whilst staying in Tokai, Capetown, I was quite surprised to find that I could not get HSDPA connections - only GPRS and Edge, and I tried in 2 different locations in the area. Obviously coverage is pretty patchy in that neck of the woods (or should that be hills and mountains).

Anyhow, my main thrust: Gauteng definitely seems to get better attention in the internet scheme of things  :Frown:

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Gauteng, being the main business hub for the big corporates, is where the most money can be made upfront by the companies offering their services..  If you look at any coverage map for Vodacom/MTN/Sentech/IBurst their best service locales are located in Gauteng...

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## Dave A

On coverage I get it. On speed, frankly I don't. Arguably, there are probably more connections per tower in Gauteng compared to KZN. The hand brake seems to be in the pipe between Gauteng and KZN, or in the priority given to that pipe.

On more than one occasion Vodacom has been caught with a transparent cache setting between KZN and Gauteng that ensures stuff that is OK in Gauteng simply does not work in KZN. Not even-handed and not amused.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Might be to keep the Gauteng "yuppies" happy...  And in using the word "yuppie", I was there once upon a time...

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## Snoopy_inc

Well they are the HQ of SA atm.

this is slowly moving into a different direction though Dave.... don't be surprised if i say that Durban is going to become the new HQ of sa.  Alot of businesses are moving their HQ to durban or CPT and away from JHB.

there are other plans atm to bring about new wireless infrastructure in Durban.  so Dave... it will happen we just have to be patient as usual  :Wink:

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