# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  What I would do If I ran SA

## cyppok

These come to the top of my mind.

1) Eskom would be broken up into two parts. Distribution and Generation.
2) Distribution would be broken up into 9 parts (each province would get a distribution company in their region)
3) The amount of charge each distribution company would be fixed at 15% of end user costs ergo if power costs 100 rand the distribution company would add 15 on top of it. The reason for this is so that there is a level field for power producers.
4**) Power producers would be privatized either by selling 75% or outright stakes to internationals. You could theoretically simply divide them into various companies that have diversified locale and gradually list them on JSE to keep them local and induce investment.
5) Breaking up Metrorail, All Metro-Rail and local transit authorities should be given to the Cities in which they operate instead of national. Ergo Cape metro should be locally operated/controlled and same in J'burg, Durban, etc... simply to keep costs contained and not nationalized. Like it is in most cities in world from Toronto, Chicago, Ny, Stockholm, Moscow, etc... (all own and operate their metro by the city authority)
6) Breaking up Transnet and devolving port authority to cities in which they are located is preferable but could privatize as well I guess.
7) Both Passenger and Freight rail would be combined and split into 3 companies based on direction. Ergo East, West, and Central. With an integrated logistics center to accommodate smoothness of traffic across the system.
8) ACSA and SAA would be broken up. Airports would be devolved to cities where they are located.
9) I actually think the best system for SA would be similar to a Canadian system. Tax rates would be cut in half across the board and 50/50 Federal/Province split with provinces being able to charge up the what the Federal Gov't charges. Ergo if Feds charge 20% income/vat/etc tax province can do the same or make it lower.
10) Yes I would probably scrap BEE or at least have a sunset clause for it.
11*) Total free speech referendum all of this 'incitement' bs is going to get worse I figure.
12) A flat tax of 20% on federal level that way everyone feels the gov't must be honest fiduciarialy wise.
13) Child grants would be cut, I don't get the incentive. Paying people to have kids is absurd. Although we do that here in the U.S. as well. (btw if you spent 12.7 billion this year and it went to 14.7 billion next year (growth of 16%)
it should double in 4.5 years ergo in 2016.5 or 17.5 it will hit 25.5 billion (or 210 bil rand)
To put it somewhat differently it will go from 1/8th of the budget to 1/4 of the budget and then 1/2 of the budget every 4.5 years assuming constant growth at current levels.
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/bu...grants-by-2015


> Spending on social grants will grow from R105 billion in 2012/13, to R122 billion in 2014/15, the 2012 Budget Review shows.


14) Excise taxes on alcohol would be eliminated. Incentive for wine producers etc... having niche taxes makes gov'ts feel entitles to crank them up because they impact "niche groups"


Monopolies are never good concentrated in a singular monopoly. I would even go as far as letting companies bid for long term leases in ports. Ergo if I was Durban and got the port after they went to cities, I would sell quays to companies like MAERSK to operate them so as not to deal with Bureaucracy and bloating budgets for overpaid workers. To maximize competition for prices through ports and even within ports. Granted some terminals are specific anyways.


*I feel your free speech is going to end up like libel laws in Britain where free speech simply is erased and eradicated by liability and simply speaking in your case it will be killed off by malicious prosecution that labels it a menace to society under some pretext, after that its over basically but this is a business forum so no point debating that.
**at the very least BEE for energy generating companies would have to be scrapped or the 25% equity kept by the government itself to keep them compliant from outset.

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Dave A (26-Sep-12)

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## Just Gone

Just out of interest -how come you so interested in SA?  One would think living in NY you would be more interested in getting your own country right considering the economic problems you have as well as all the mass killings and the need to attack oil rich countries for your personal gain as well as the poverty the US has and the black white discrimination problems as well?

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## greasemonkey

I see you are quoting from the sowetan? The paper you discarded in another thread as having pressure to be politically correct?  Anyway, your ideas have merit but you miss a few issues that will negate most of them. Tribalism - the areas or provinces cross tribal lines so there will be infighting to control areas. There is a long list but I struggle to type on my phone., think on corruption ,nepotism, tribalism and all the other 'isms you can think of -they succeeded in destroying a fairly well run country in 14 years .Would your ideal system survive longer?

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## cyppok

> Just out of interest -how come you so interested in SA?  One would think living in NY you would be more interested in getting your own country right considering the economic problems you have as well as all the mass killings and the need to attack oil rich countries for your personal gain as well as the poverty the US has and the black white discrimination problems as well?


Kevin I periodically roam around online and find a point of interest and then read up on it. Before I was obsessing about something else. I think it was impact from Kurds leaving and the likelihood of war between Armenia/Azerbaidjan regaining steam and hitting off a much larger regional war. Before that something else.

The U.S. is screwed up beyond repair. (j/k)

*Just bored so I roam on various forums sharing my views that's what bored people do...
*
I think the discrimination you speak of is not as high as you think if you came here the only discrimination in USA is based on how much money you have. Which is totally fine...

Greasemonkey I needed an estimate of spending they had one. You can subtract 10% from it if you want to feel better. Me quoting from one estimate or another does not make much of a difference if the growth is 16% (or close to it). It won't change the timeline much 4.4 years to 4.6 years. 

All of these isms you speak off come out when the economy turns down and the people need someone to blame NOW! thus I focused on the budget which is rapidly running out of red ink it seems. Eventually it will help improve all the -isms. 
If the country had Canadian type provincial rule with fiscal semi-independence (no borrowing though) they could withhold funds from fiscal budget (as a last resort to get points across). My feeling yes the country would survive longer and be more efficient/less corrupt.

I don't think the country is destroyed, yet. Its still alive and kicking and I do not see any ethnic group that has compactness and geography on its' side wanting to leave. All I see thus far is fairly quick inflation and some price pressure on people putting a lot of strain on poor people to feed themselves.

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## greasemonkey

I'm not picking a fight with you, you have some salient points. Sowetan is probably one of the most reliable sources you will get.

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## adrianh

If I ran South Africa I would put a fence around it and market it as the biggest zoo in Africa.

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## tec0

To fix South Africa is really easy; all you need to do is to find all that money that is missing all that billions can pay for better roads, police training, and proper hospitals. Then you liquidate all the corrupted officials and use that money to train teachers and get public transport going. Lastly I would introduce a TAX system for Taxis. 

All the money you make from them you can use to get all those trains going again. Lastly liquidate all those corrupted contractors and use that money to fix up buildings and build a few new buildings so that people can have housing. 

Then you use the existing systems to maintain the country...

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## adrianh

I would close the borders and send all the non-Citizens home. Then I would sterilize every single adult that has already had more than two children. Then I would force every single person to be sterilized after they have had  two children. 


People must stop breeding like locusts....

The people that don't like these measures will be welcome to go live somewhere else, I'll pay their airfare.

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## tec0

Yes I can see the campaign now [ DROP YOUR BALLS FOR YOUR COUNTRY ]  :Rofl:

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wynn (25-Sep-12)

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## Just Gone

> The U.S. is screwed up beyond repair. (j/k)



I couldn t agree with you more ............

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## adrianh

tec0 - Right on brother....

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## greasemonkey

> If I ran South Africa I would put a fence around it and market it as the biggest zoo in Africa.


Cool idea , now how to make a fence unstealable  hmmmmm :Wink:

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## adrianh

Damn, didn't think of that....

Ok, option 2...Genetic engineering - I would cross the cANCer with the Lemming....that way they would go to Durban for New Year's and not come back....

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## tec0

Well time for our list then? Shall we!!! 

Number one: Mass Castration (Will take the train of our recourses especially water)

Number two: Mass Liquidation of Corrupted and criminal individuals (Use the money to rebuild... well everything)

Number three: Locate all the missing billions (Use that money to rebuild our basic infrastructures such as security, health care and public transport) 

Number Four: Taxi Tax (Again to insure road safety and help public transport) 

Number five: Border control!!! (Self explanatory really) 

Number six: The construction of massive pipe lines from our oceans to purify water so that we can have a sustainable agricultural system (Ability to feed ourselves and provide lots of jobs) 

Number whatever Add yours suggestions here....  :Yes:

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## Just Gone

How about cutting their balls off at birth .............. so they dont repopulate .............. taking away the "subsidy" that the government gives you for having more children ............... and slowly cutting down on population .....  :Wink:

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## adrianh

But if you cut the nuts off at birth then you are going to be left with a bunch of gays....not a bad thing mind you, when they strike they will go to work wearing non-Prada handbags....

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## Mike C

Didn't know where to put this - BEE Forum - General Discussion - Politics - Woolworths ... ??? 
Then I decided that in light of the recent posts here ... it might fit in just as well.

Monday, 10 September 2012 08:01 

Australians call for sanctions against SA 


The new South African government's racist policies and affirmative action has led to calls for sanctions against SA.

The National Chairman of the Australian Protectionist Party, Andrew Phillips called upon both the Federal Labor government and the Opposition to unanimously support the re-introduction of sanctions upon South Africa.

"It is becoming increasingly clear the situation in South Africa warrants international attention once again", Phillips said. "Despite noble announcements by the African National Congress (ANC) of its intent to make South Africa an egalitarian society in which all people could live in harmony and have equal opportunity-the reality is quite different."

His calls follow Woolworths SA asking that only "African Black candidates" apply for certain posts in job advertisements and South African Airways saying it will only appoint black pilots to its cadet pilot training programme.

Phillips said "Australia is dragging its feet in recognising the reality of the New South Africa. Euro MPs Barry Madlener and Lucas Hartong have already called for the EU to cease giving millions in aid to South Africa and have already raised the issue of what can only be described as cultural genocide in that country." See our story "EU take on SAA in pilot racism".

The Australian Protectionist Party recognises the right of all people, irrespective of racial, cultural or religious background to a safe homeland, self determination and the opportunity to control their national destiny in an increasingly globalised world.

"With the advent of so-called majority rule, minorities such as the Afrikaner communities are experiencing ever increasing disadvantage and persecution based on the colour of their skin" Phillips said.

"The South African government has done little to protect the lives of the nation's farmers and their families, actively promotes the on-going Anglicisation of the nation's government sector with the current debate of the "Languages Bill" and has reduced an estimated 10% of the nation's Afrikaner community to the poverty line through the introduction of a race based Affirmative Action policy - a situation President Zuma described as both "shocking and surprising", yet has done nothing to address".

"Australia was quick to take the moral high-ground against South Africa decades ago, now is not the time to expose our hypocrisy by refusing to re-introduce sanctions and apply meaningful diplomatic pressure upon the ANC regime," Phillips said.

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tec0 (25-Sep-12)

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## adrianh

The group that wrote that piece does not represent anybody of real importance in Australia. They are a handful of people who have their own little 'party'

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tec0 (25-Sep-12)

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## tec0

Well the subject can no longer be ignored, it is time for the UN to take notice of the growing problem of oppression. Minorities cannot own stock in certain companies, they cannot get work thanks to various legislation the list goes on. 




> Answering a question from DA parliamentary leader Lindiwe Mazibuko in front of the National Assembly the Prez said: "*You have more rights because you're a majority; you have less rights because you're a minority. That's how democracy works*." Source


There it is...  :Whistling: 




> *9. Equality*
> 
> *Everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law.
> *
>     Equality includes the full and equal enjoyment of all rights and freedoms. To promote the achievement of equality, legislative and other measures designed to protect or advance persons, or categories of persons, disadvantaged by unfair discrimination may be taken.
> 
>     The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.
> 
>     *1 No person may unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds in terms of subsection (3). National legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination.
> ...


So why not ask our local politicians to go to the UN and ask for an inquiry?  :Confused:

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## cyppok

http://www.thecropsite.com/reports/?category=142&id=142
SA is still self-sufficient in corn, once you get massive food inflation that is when the fun truly starts. I am sure the child subsidies will not cover food costs post inflation but you never know.
My guess is 10 million more people and you go to 0 surplus on corn. May come quicker if area decline continues and yields don't grow as they used to in the past. If yields per/ha drop then faster. 

The reality is you just need to drop below trend line for a year or two for massive spikes due to imports and considering that SA was above trend line for a while every year the likelihood is more likely for it to fluctuate below.

Sooner or later there will be a spiral of discontent, how it is shaped and directed is another matter.

Decentralization is more important because accountability is closer to their constituency. It may be more efficient corruption wise to have one national company that has multiple layers of slanted responsibility instead of multiple single layer locally vertical companies.
I am very optimistic about SA it has lots of nice coastlines, beaches, resources, watched a lot of documentaries on Youtube. [Stayin' Alive in Joburg, and a few others.]

Sure its' decrepit and getting worse but I figure once it collapses the rise from the ashes will be the time to get involved. Unless it goes full blown nationalization/redistribution and tries to internally create enemies of the state and whatnot.
Also I don't think SA went through the proper housing bubble we went through here in the states (and Canada is just entering) once you go through the boom and bust of the housing bubble it will get interesting. 

I also think geopolitically there has to be a re-arrangement and right now SA is seemingly neutral in the re-alignment. What has to happen is for outside interests to get strong enough incentive to try to sway it one way or another. Figure this happens only after they nationalize or BEEqualize the car industry or something else.

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## Dave A

I have a (not so little) list...

My top priority would have the short title of "Quality education for all", and it would be a priority with two parts.

The first part would be *primary education*. Quite simply we cannot waste another generation on the pitiful excuse for primary education so widely prevalent today. This would not be an apex priority - it would be *the* apex priority. Nothing will be allowed to undermine, water down, render ineffective or in any way diminish the efficient, effective equipping and deploying of resources to achieve this, right down to truant officers wandering the streets during school hours. Failure is not an option!

I'll get to tertiary education tomorrow.

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## Blurock

> I have a (not so little) list...
> 
> My top priority would have the short title of "Quality education for all", and it would be a priority with two parts.


I can not agree more. But we should also consider adult education. I cringe every time I see barbaric hordes running amok in our streets. People who think that they can fix everything with violence. People who are intimidated and manipulated like puppets because of their insecurities and superstition which can be blamed on a lack of proper education and upbringing.

Information plays a huge role and allowing people access to news from all over the world keeps them informed. The information bill should never be allowed to be passed.

I also question the accommodation of the tribal system where everything belongs to the king or the chief. People will never become land owners and therefore development is stunted. We live in a republic with democratic rights for every citizen. Not so in the tribal areas. The tribal system belongs to the stone age and should be scrapped.

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## tec0

:Rant1:  *Education...* I had a good long talk with a few educators and apart from being brash and narcissistic they really don’t give a damn about their students. Now there are acceptations but that is not really the problem. 

The problem is this; regardless of studying very hard a student can still fail. Not because he/she made lots of mistakes but because of the person marking the paper has no clue what he/she is doing. Or so goes the rumours. Not so you will say clearly if you study hard enough you must pass! The proof is in the high scoring students, students that score 80% and higher and then suddenly fail there end examination spectacularly so.  :Slap: 

Rumours include the following: Those who mark there examination papers will discriminate against minorities, do not have the education to figure out if what the student answered is actually correct or not. And may even draw a line trough a question paper if the person’s surname doesn’t look right. (this include both majority and minority)   

Now the proof comes in strange form, if the student asks to have her/his question paper remarked they simply deduct two or more marks to shut them up. But when the student pays to see her/his marked question paper it disappears or the student can wait for a reply indefinitely.

So in the end the student will just have to redo her/his subjects and they just keep on making more money!

But again proving anything is impossible.  :Yes:  
Thus education is questionable as are there practices behind closed doors.  :Rant1: 


Please note my Disclaimer  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## wynn

Legally your kid has to go to school!
If you get him/her to write O levels it doesn't matter what the local pass mark/certificate says.

People used to get a 'Rhodes University Diploma' now it is a 'Fort Hare Rhodes Campus Diploma' who anywhere in the world knows what 'Fort Hare' is?

But if you had a Diploma from the 'Greater Birmingham Technical School' it would probably carry more weight.

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## tec0

I can tell you this I am currently doing subjects to secure my second trade. Do you know how carp it feels when you see that you get up to 25% less then what you where suppose to get? Now I am not new to politics and all the BS. But imagine a 17 year old that worked his a$$ off to get a good mark and fail? It is really a horrible experience. But the worst thing is they don't get answers just BS.   

But you must hear the excuses that the moms and dads get!!! It is beyond believe...

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## Citizen X

> The problem is this; regardless of studying very hard a student can still fail.


Tec0, what you say have great merit! I'm of the opinion that all University exam papers are not designed to test you but rather to trick you! A student may have prepared thoroughly for an examination, studied diligently and studied everything. It's disconcerting to be faced with a paper that is ambiguos and aims to trick you! I firmly belive that if I can explain the subject matter to another person in an easy to understand and practical manner then I've understood the content and should pass! Believe me, there were times when I was expecting distinctions, even bragged about my forthcoming distinctions to many well before the fact of results, only to be overwhelmed by the fact that I just managed to pass!

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tec0 (27-Sep-12)

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## Blurock

Fail is the First Attempt In Learning. It is not a disgrace. There may be circumstances beyond your control, but try again. Never give up! :Wink:

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tec0 (30-Sep-12)

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## wynn

> I'm of the opinion that all University exam papers are not designed to test you but rather to trick you!


I have said that for many years!
I believe all exams should be open book with a shortened completion time, if you know the work you will pass, if like me, you have a s#!t memory, you can check your facts and still pass, if you haven't done the work having an open book is not going to help unless you have a mega speed reading gift.

Like I have said before, when asked a question about a theorem an open book will assist with the exceptions, if you haven't studied the theorem you won't be able to answer the question in the time given.

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tec0 (30-Sep-12)

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## cyppok

> I have said that for many years!
> I believe all exams should be open book with a shortened completion time, if you know the work you will pass, if like me, you have a s#!t memory, you can check your facts and still pass, if you haven't done the work having an open book is not going to help unless you have a mega speed reading gift.
> 
> Like I have said before, when asked a question about a theorem an open book will assist with the exceptions, if you haven't studied the theorem you won't be able to answer the question in the time given.


Whats the point of learning? It used to be that you needed to know things through and through so you could create solutions to known problems from memory and adapt what you learned. Then we got expansion in politically correct history and morality/ethics of society and how it applies to various aspects that skewed real solutions into unreal, unusable, and to some degree worthless knowledge.

Sadly this is still propogating further. To some degree since everything is online you could say simply searching for an answer is possible. The problem is understanding and practical application is non-existent in schools it is not thought at all. Those chemistry and physics labs were about that pure and simple understanding of forces around you and how to manipulate them at least in basic aspects. Sadly it is all getting dumbified and zombified through e-learning and other aspects that really leave people breeze through without any understanding at all.

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## Phil Cooper

1. Ban minimum wages - let people offer what they want, the worker can accept or reject. Better to be earning R2,000 a month than starving with nothing.

2. Allow hiring and firing without all this CCMA cr#p! If you look at the fastest growing economies they have the easiest hire and fire legislation.

3. Boost taxes to schooling, hospitals and law enforcement. Put qualified financial people (CAs etc) in charge of the funds.

4. Tenders will be opened transparently, in public, and the cheapest tender which complies with ALL requirements is awarded it - open to challenge from cheaper tenderers.

5. Ban unions.

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## Dave A

The second part of my "Quality education for all" program would focus on *tertiary* education. And top of my list would be a total overhaul of the National Skills Development Strategy.

The manadatory grant system would be scrapped.
SDL funds would go into a pool that will fund formal education for school leavers first, the goal being a 100% subsidy of direct education costs.
Any change left over would then be applied across other training priorities and would be % subsidies of direct costs.




> But we should also consider adult education. I cringe every time I see barbaric hordes running amok in our streets. People who think that they can fix everything with violence. People who are intimidated and manipulated like puppets because of their insecurities and superstition which can be blamed on a lack of proper education and upbringing.


I appreciate my priority ordering might not satisfy this thought, but I suggest we first need to stop more people getting to this point before we start dealing with the folk who are already in this position.

The SETAs would be restructured into training systems driven categories such as:
Professions
Trades
Certificates
Other (for now - what is left after the above needs analysis).

I could ramble on for hours on reasons and drilling down into more detail on each part, but that represents the broad strokes. Ultimately my concern is we're collecting pretty much 1% of the nation's payroll and it is being applied incredibly inefficiently at the moment.

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## tec0

> 1. Ban minimum wages - let people offer what they want, the worker can accept or reject. Better to be earning R2,000 a month than starving with nothing.
> 
> 2. Allow hiring and firing without all this CCMA cr#p! If you look at the fastest growing economies they have the easiest hire and fire legislation.
> 
> 3. Boost taxes to schooling, hospitals and law enforcement. Put qualified financial people (CAs etc) in charge of the funds.
> 
> 4. Tenders will be opened transparently, in public, and the cheapest tender which complies with ALL requirements is awarded it - open to challenge from cheaper tenderers.
> 
> 5. Ban unions.


Therein you will find oppression, there really is no right or wrong here but there was a time where people worked without unions and or the CCMA and that hated health and safety. Those where the times where a mineral was measured by lives lost mining it. Things like a man a mile each mile another man died. 

I understand that people hate unions and all the rest, and I agree that people employees abuse these systems. So rather get rid of the abusers and keep the systems.  Health and safety is a healthy respect for life. Yes you get safety officers that think they are cops but rather fire them... Keep the system it is a good system especially if you do things within reasonable safety. 

Thirdly minimum wages is a must. There are very healthy companies that abuse the systems. Rather create a business model where the business income and skill requirements are taken into consideration and allow for some tax benefits to help the owner pay their employees a fair income and still remain healthy and profitable. It is in everyones best interest to keep your business alive and healthy.

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## Blurock

What is our view on tertiary education? There already appears to be a higher demand than the institutions can cope with. Should the bar not be set a little higher and students selected by doing an entry exam as is customary in many parts of the world? 

I believe that more emphasis should be placed on technical education and trades. There are too many students clambering for "management" courses and not enough in areas where more specialised skills are required. We need more doctors, engineers, accountants, teachers and nurses, but we also need millwrights, mechanics and people doing a proper trade such as plumbing and electricians. 

How do we achieve these goals?

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## Phil Cooper

UK suddenly woke up to the above today.

Miliband has announced that if Labour comes back to power, they will spend one BILLION pounds re-starting apprenticeships and training centres.

He says the government was wrong is pushing for only University educated people, and the country also needs people with skills in their hands.

(He forgot to mention it was Tony Blair's government that closed them down)!

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## Swapo

Institute a Constitution similar to the ORIGINAL AMERICAN and NEVER EVER EVER CHANGE IT.

Back the Rand with Gold and Silver and return to REAL MONEY.

Abolish Income Tax and Establish a Poll Tax. If you cannot pay it you must work it off growing food or building roads or some other public service etc.

Overhaul the Justice System to reflect Gods Justice System - an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. No you dope, it does not mean remove the eye. It is like accident insurance. An eye/hand/arm/leg has a stipulated value. If you permanently damage any part you must repay what the part is worth. Jail time is limited to what is required to repay your debt. Jail time is paid for by your labour and the excess is attributed to your debt. When it is paid you leave. If a prison does not grow enough food to feed the inmates they starve. No TV, no Cellphone, no conjugal visits. Just honest labour in order to repay what you stole at the rate of 3 or 5 to 1 depending on value. The smaller the value the higher the ratio. Reinstitute the Penalty of Death for Blood Crimes - Rape/Murder etc.

Devolve all National Power into the Provinces and remove the chains of "Big Government". Reduce government involvement with the citizenry to providing for the common defense. Uhm... Yep, thats about all. Institute a Federal system ala Switzerland. This will allow local issues and local wishes to be legalised without impacting the rest of the country. 

Devolve Policing into the cities. If a city wants more cops they must raise the money from the citizens of that city by charging taxes limited to a maximum set amount.

Abolish VAT. Institute a sliding scale consumption tax at the Point of Sale to the end user on all non basic food items based on the value of the item. The more expensive luxury items get taxed more. The more you consume the more tax you pay.

Abolish all legal requirements on payrolls such as UIF, TAX, LEVIES and other expenses. It is bullshit. If a person does not provide for themselves - tough luck. It is not the employer or the states duty to provide for you. 

Abolish all grants. If you cannot feed it do not breed it. Poll taxes can be levied and given to audited humanitarian organisations to provide aid to the completely useless indigent. The State is there to protect your rights not feed you.

Illegal immigrants will be jailed at hard labour for the same period they have been in the country illegally before being deported.

Get government OUT of education completely. Government is there to defend the nation and the rights of the people - nothing more, nothing less.

Reinstate auditable corporal punishment for boys and girls.

Institute free firearm ownership to any one who passes the required tests. Institute "No Backdown" and "Castle Doctrine" laws.

Abolish fuel taxes and levies. Abolish the SASOL subsidy.

Look at nationalising strategic industries such as Sasol, Iscor etc to provide advantage to local industry. Why should I be able to IMPORT steel cheaper than I can buy it at the gate at ISCOR?

Institute a Broken Window approach to law enforcement. Enforce EVERY little law to start engendering a culture of compliance.

Institute liveable minimum wages.

Institute completely free hire and fire laws.

Overhaul the "Capitalist" system and replace it with a free market system. No - Capitalism is NOT the same thing as a free market. Capitalism is the Marxistisation of the free market through lobby groups, consolidation of power and non competitive collusion. It is most certainly NOT a FREE MARKET economy. Abandoning a free market economy is what got the world into the current mess it is in. Let the market decide.

Abolish ALL non physical ownership and investment initiatives such as debt leverage, deriviatives, currency speculation etc. It is fake money and worse than a casino - for every winner there are 1000 losers.

Those are just a few thoughts...

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## tec0

Firstly dont get me wrong I am all for the Old Testament when it comes to serious crimes. 

However everything mentioned will not solve any problem I am sorry to say. I dont mean to insult anyone but we are still on a small scale.  See we can think of rules regulation adopt and or modify the constitution. All of that means absolutely nothing. 

Practical solutions is to created homes, and generate work. Having a good income and a nice place to live will reduce crime and friction. 

Secondly is practical education In the very old days Eskom use to take in anyone and train them from the ground up. It was long process but it worked well because those same people "all of them much older then most of us" Still work at Eskom and they know how to keep the plants running. (it works)

For a proper foundation you need to change and modify the bits that matter to the public. Security, health and safety and the ability to survive. Once these systems are there you can think about castrating people and so on... 

First things first... You need to stability the rest will follow.

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## Lynda

Adrianh, I agree... in fact they should bring that in right now... when people go to hospital to have their child and it's their 2nd one they should be sterilised at the same time.  Have thought this for years now.

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Blurock (09-Oct-12)

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## carryn-leigh

The primary change would be to create an education system that actually educates our kids.  I am a teaching assistant for first year biology at a well known university.  I sit and dispair at what these kids come up with.  The current education system promises to create better students, while creating so much pressure on the teaching staff with the admin and nonsense that they have to deal with on top of teaching.  It really hasn't created that much of a difference in the positive direction.  I was educated on the 'old' syllabus, but I went to university with kids who were on the 'new' syllabus.  I don't feel like I missed out at all.  I was often at the top of my class, so these 'improved' skills they are teaching learners today didn't really help much in the university field.  

My main changes to the school system would be:
1. Educate teachers.  I agree with some of the above posters who maintain that the teachers are clueless and don't understand their own subject.  This would change dramatically.  Teachers would be expected to go on 'refresher' courses maybe every 2 years to make sure they are up to date with the material they are teaching.  Teachers who fail the test at the end of a course would be expected to repeat it, if they fail a second time, their position as a teacher would be terminated.
2. Make teaching a desireable job.  Many well educated people (myself included) are not interested in teaching at a government school because the salaries are pitiful and one cannot live (decently) on such a salary.  If teaching became a respectable job, more qualified people would be interested in educating the kids of our country. (See Finland as a good example of what to do).
3. At the same time, teachers who show high absenteeism must be fired. This is one of the biggest problem in our schools today.  Kids sit in a classroom with no teacher.  Not everyone is able to work their way through a maths textbook and figure it out on their own.  Teachers need to be there to help them along.  
4. Teachers must teach.  Admin must be handled by admin staff.  
5. Onto schools - schools should be streamlined, so that we have pure academic schools and technical schools.  While there are technical schools out there, I don't think there are enough.  Some people are not academically inclined, and their potential in other areas should be advanced.  Kids who are pushed to do well academically, when they aren't that way inclined leads to a high failure rate and a lack of skilled workers in the job market.  
6. Syllabus: Get rid of the joke that is Maths Literacy, and bring back Higher, Standard and Functional Grade maths.  Maths would still be compulsory, but at least learners will have an intermediate level (Standard Grade) to choose from.  Maths Literacy is the downfall of this country's education.  Too many kids try the Core maths, and do badly, so they switch to Maths Lit, which teaches them how to count and not how to deal with the whole purpose of Maths, which is to encourage logical thinking.  And God knows we need more people with logical thought in this country!
7. Again with syllabus, I would consult universities and find out what gaps first year learners have, and address these gaps in the syllabus.  For example, in Biology, so many kids have no clue that they are animals.  This needs to be brought back into the syllabus, and less focus put on whatever they are teaching kids nowadays.

I think I have dealt with most of the problems we have in our school system.  Obviously it would cost a bit to implement, but in the long run, our future generations will thank us for it.

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Blurock (09-Oct-12), Dave A (09-Oct-12)

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## cyppok

Education is generally of 2 types, 

one type of education is one that indoctrinates youth through routine and teach compliance via shutting down of thought and curiosity.

the other type of education is sociatal interplay on a social level and how the government pulls levers and organizes them in a system that it controls, adaptability and plasticity come into play and the critical element is out.

THE MOST IMPORTANT TYPE OF EDUCATION OVER AND ABOVE ANY AND ALL SCIENCE IS *CRITICAL THINKING*!!!

Critical thinking is the most important type of education one can gain. To do what one can with what one has under the circumstances he is in. To apply your mind to your environment and do your best to use every tool you have in your brainbox. You may not have the best tools but if you use them better than the other person you will be better off. 

{Yes, math and science matters but critical thought is paramount}

Also education won't fix the country only makes people smart enough to recognize the road your traveling and doesn't push impetus upon them to change circumstances.

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## tec0

I think you need a short term goal and a long term goal.

Short term will include:

Stage (1)
(1) Getting the money that was stolen back, (2) Get the police force up to standard, (3) Get hospitals up to standard, (4) Get the municipal services up to standard, (5)Get Schools up to standard (6) Get rid of unfair bylaws. This will realistically take about five years to do.

Stage(2)
(1) Introduce proper housing (we all saw that building that was done in two weeks), (2) Invest moneys in Agriculture, Raw material processing, fabrication of goods Fabrication of electronic goods, (3) Introduce cost effective alternative power for home use. (4) Introduce  Home schooling systems. This will realistically take about seven years to do. 

Stage(3)
(1) Restoring of land that was once used for mining, (2)Introduce military training for everyone older than 18 for no less than 3 years (include one year in adding Hospitals , One year adding Police service and One year adding Military service. (3) Introducing systems for purification plants and pipelines to feed water from the ocean to the inland to supplement water supplies to aid agriculture. This will take no less than seven to  ten years to accomplish

Long term will include:

Stage(1)
(1) Introduction of new ruling system (Each province will have an Overseer that will report to the general public on the implementation and allocation of monies. Each will make sure that ALL is too satisfactory. If the Overseer fails in her/his duties they will be removed by public vote and a new Overseer will be introduced.) This will take about ten to fifteen years.

(2) Population control. (I have no idea how this will be done. But criminals (any criminal) will be subject to castration.  This will include all form of crime such as not paying your tax.  :Whistling:  ) This will take about ten to fifteen years.

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## cyppok

tec0 I mentioned the provincial division of revenue and other powers as per Canada. Won't happen due to political dominance.

Any and all investments you promote won't happen due to theft, incompetence, sovereign bonds spiking due to nationalization rumors for the forex providers (miners), and simply because a lot of them cannot occur due to cross resources not being available. (excess, water, energy, capital... a lot of agri productivity is related to not just land , fertilizer, water, climate, labor, and capital in the form of machinery and working capital but also other efficiencies, like transportation to value added points bakeries, ports, etc... that is breaking down via infrastructure)

The good news. Is that once you have total collapse and civil war the survivors will get to start anew and build it almost from scratch. Yes, underneath it all I am an optimist.  :Whistling: 

Primarily three things if the government does now would change the course.
1) institution of law and order, equal protection under the law 
2) unwavering fixed policy to streamline and make business administration consistent ergo tax rates and whatever you have is frozen so that people get used to it via forms and whatnot instead of constant addons and changes that add business burden (for local/foreign investors.)
3) responsibility through the chain of command and accountability, you do something crappy it gets show to public you get fired it gets fixed

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## Blurock

I would re-open the prison on Robben Island and all put the politicians and government officials that are stealing from us, the people, there. Forever! 

The prison may not be big enough, so I will send the overflow to Reunion with a couple of goats, so they could survive on their own and enjoy the fresh air. 

The real big thieves, the ones who are building houses and palaces with taxpayers money, will be sent to Antarctica where they can assist in building a new base for our researchers.  

 :Ban:

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## tec0

> The good news. Is that once you have total collapse and civil war the survivors will get to start anew and build it almost from scratch.


So have seen war have you? You saw the fear in the eyes of innocent children that can only stare and pray that total lawlessness doesnt take over. See they are normally the very first people to feel the wrath of a corrupt soul. Is the rest of Africa not a clear enough example for you? There is no protection for them. War allows for anything including violence against women and children. 

You say these words so easily as if you have the balls to step up when the situation comes calling. It is one thing to deem terrorist actions as terrorists actions like the strikers attacking people. 

It is something else when you see war as a solution.

I am done with this thread.  :Mad:

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## cyppok

> So have seen war have you? You saw the fear in the eyes of innocent children that can only stare and pray that total lawlessness doesnt take over. See they are normally the very first people to feel the wrath of a corrupt soul. Is the rest of Africa not a clear enough example for you? There is no protection for them. War allows for anything including violence against women and children. 
> 
> You say these words so easily as if you have the balls to step up when the situation comes calling. It is one thing to deem terrorist actions as terrorists actions like the strikers attacking people. 
> 
> It is something else when you see war as a solution.
> 
> I am done with this thread.


I say it easily because I observe from AFAR. No didn't see it up close, don't plan to either.

Strikers attacking people is civil disturbance and regular break-down of law and order not enforced by the local government.

I said it may come to it, if you have complete break down in enforcement you have roaming bands of people doing whatever they wish without impunity. That is kind of the definition of a civil war. If you get a few hundred thousand people doing it in various parts of the country. Striking and running around destroying sht en masse is very different things. A strike is not a riot.

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## Dave A

> Striking and running around destroying sht en masse is very different things. A strike is not a riot.


Absolutely.

And it least it seems that our government is starting to wake up to that not-so-subtle difference too.

Of course, realising it is one thing - *solving* the problem is the *real* challenge  :Frown:

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## IanF

I love the irony here



> Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi’s car was pelted with stones on Friday while visiting striking miners in Orkney, reports say.
> 
> Vavi was on his way to visit a third hostel at AngloGold's mine when angry workers attacked the vehicle. News24 link


Lets see if COSATU get serious about peaceful strikes?

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## Blurock

The cANCer is now reaping what it has sown. You can not teach youngsters that there is "no education before liberation" and also promote civil disobedience by make a country or province "ungovernable" without there being consequences. What were they thinking!! :Censored:

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## tec0

When someone talks so recklessly about war it makes me cringe. If I was cancer I wouldn’t do a darn thing to aid and or stop the strikers nor find any solution between the unions and the companies. 

The reason is simple, after all is said and done the unions will face financial annihilation. Just imagine the coming lawsuits not only nationally but internationally. The unions will not survive and this will allow cancer to put an end to one of the most powerful movement to date.

Thus answering the question as to why cancer is so hesitant in doing anything at al. they are removing a big thorn from there backside and they will be stronger than ever.

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## Citizen X

> When someone talks so recklessly about war it makes me cringe. If I was cancer I wouldn’t do a darn thing to aid and or stop the strikers nor find any solution between the unions and the companies. 
> 
> The reason is simple, after all is said and done the unions will face financial annihilation. Just imagine the coming lawsuits not only nationally but internationally. The unions will not survive and this will allow cancer to put an end to one of the most powerful movement to date.
> 
> Thus answering the question as to why cancer is so hesitant in doing anything at al. they are removing a big thorn from there backside and they will be stronger than ever.


War is a brutal thing! On the ground and closer to home, it destroys homes, businesses, displaces families, obliterates infrastructure and destroys innocent lives. We need to learn from history and from other counteries in a current state of civil war such as Syria and simply say, we emphatize with them, but we thank God and goodness that it's not us...What we need right here in SA is a very strong opposition. Once certain bills can be prevented from being passed into law and other bills promoted, we'll be on the right track!

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## Dave A

I think the thing that needs to be avoided is a "power at any cost" mindset. It's not enough to have a strong opposition, you need to feel comfortable that your future is in reasonably safe hands even if it is "your opposition" that is in power.

This is where I felt Thabo Mbeki took the wrong road in centralising power rather than spreading responsibility during his Presidency. Yes, you're in control while you're in charge - but my goodness you're naked when someone else takes over your too-powerful seat.

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## Blurock

Well, it is official; BEE and BBBEEE etc etc is dead! The new policy is that it is not good enough to give 51% of your business to your Black brother. You have to give 100%. 51% ownership will not get you to level 2 with the new proposed structures. Organisations such as BBC and Nafcoc say that they are not racist, they just prefer black.

If you are not black or black enough, forget to do business with these organisations or any of its affiliated members. :Frown:

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## Dave A

I've been mulling over that aspect of the proposals for a while now.

The conclusion I've arrived at is it's not the scoring that'll be a problem. It's already crazy that an organisation can achieve a level 2 BEE score with remarkably little black representation at the top. Nope, I reckon the proposed scoring improves meaningful differentiation.

The *real* problem is how that scoring will be applied in preferential procurement! Level 4 is 100% - essentailly adequate to achieve preferential procurement targets per the scorecard. But any buying organisation that sets a "we'll only procure from level 2 upwards" policy is essentially going "100% black or no deal." And I'd suggest that *would* be unfair racism.

If that base line is set at level 4 things should work out though. The level 2's will have an edge, but non-racial organisations and EME's (who really don't have the scale to compensate for a white owner in the mix) will still be in the game.

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## Blurock

The problem I have with this whole BEE thing is that it is not promoting non-racial diversity. If you employ people from different backgrounds we can all learn from each other and take the good from each community to create a better workplace.

The other problem is that a black person with the right connections can get a tender/contract/order to supply "whatever" just because government does not want to buy from a white owned or partially white owned firm. There is no consideration of the consequences if "whatever" is imported from China and the white owned firm who employs 300 black people is put out of business. 

This shows how little consideration there is for the workers and the poor when it comes to government policies. :No:

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