# Social Category > The Whistleblower Forum >  Wiseman concept scam

## Ayjay

I see there have been some posts about Wiseman Concept. Please be advised that it is a scam and stay away Google wisman concept and the word scam to get more info.

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Citizen X (02-Oct-12), tec0 (27-Apr-12)

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## Dave A

I see it previously came up on TFSA here - and it certainly did look suspect.

Has any new info come to light since?

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## Mariana

Not all people are "dummies" - thousands of people have been helped by the "Wiseman Concept.

To get the correct information please contact the owner and designer of the Wiseman Telescopic Calculator. The owners name is Willem Botha and his sell number is 076 489 7473.

Please read the website www.wisemanconcept.mobi FAQ from 300 CA's, Actuaries, Estate agents, Bankers and Financial Advisers and the shocking results that "EVERYONE BADMOUTHING THE WISEMAN CONCEPT" is actualy the biggest scammers.

Let me give you a piece of the future , and how business will be run 5 years from today. Two options on all contract or purchase agreements will be mandadatory to all sales documentation where the client must sign for the information received:
1.) The normal way to buy where the purchaser will lose most of his investment e.g a car losing value after a certain time.
2.) The "Wiseman Telescopic Calculator" way where the purchaser will pay zero ( R 0.00 ) for the car. This system has already been proved successful in 2347 clients.

If the seller fails to notify the buyer, the buyer will be able to sue the seller for his loss:

Why do you think that there is only 4 unsubstanciated complaints on the "Wiseman Concept" in 15 years, whilst each major bank has 300 and more complaints in six months. 

How can the writer of the "WARNING" article say "IT IS DEFINATELY A SCAM"
Has this writer of the conjecture and untruth realy think they will get away with this?

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## AndyD

That's a world class website you've linked to Mariana.

_Kwikwap Website Consultant: Freddie 
_
I also take my hat of to Freddie. You got to love someone who's not afraid to fly in the face of every best practice of website design.

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## Dave A

I'm just so impressed with the subtext  :Stick Out Tongue: 



Yep - this guy certainly has a grip on things that I fail to follow.

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## adrianh

Ok, so what exactly is "The Wiseman Concept"....without all the fluff...just the bottom line?

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Dave A (02-Oct-12)

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## Dave A

> Ok, so what exactly is "The Wiseman Concept"....without all the fluff...just the bottom line?


I'll second that question!

All I see is fluff and no substance.

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## Citizen X

> Not all people are "dummies" - thousands of people have been helped by the "Wiseman Concept.
> 
> To get the correct information please contact the owner and designer of the Wiseman Telescopic Calculator. The owners name is Willem Botha and his sell number is 076 489 7473.
> 
> Please read the website www.wisemanconcept.mobi FAQ from 300 CA's, Actuaries, Estate agents, Bankers and Financial Advisers and the shocking results that "EVERYONE BADMOUTHING THE WISEMAN CONCEPT" is actualy the biggest scammers.
> 
> Let me give you a piece of the future , and how business will be run 5 years from today. Two options on all contract or purchase agreements will be mandadatory to all sales documentation where the client must sign for the information received:
> 1.) The normal way to buy where the purchaser will lose most of his investment e.g a car losing value after a certain time.
> 2.) The "Wiseman Telescopic Calculator" way where the purchaser will pay zero ( R 0.00 ) for the car. This system has already been proved successful in 2347 clients.
> ...


NOT INTERESTED!!!NO THANKYOU! BYE BYE

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## adrianh

@Mariana - please explain what it is exactly that you do - I'm open minded so I'd like to hear what you have to say.

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## wynn

Yep me too, give us a synopsis of what happens?

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## Citizen X

Why not, please indulge us here Mariana? You have a right to reply! Tell us your version of events, I give you my word as a gentleman, I will hear you out! There's two sides to a story, what is yours?

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## AndyD

Ignore the cynics Mariana, I see a system that thinks outside the box, a system whose complex facade is merely an opaque veneer shading a simplicity so stark it has abstract beauty beyone the boundaries of the numbers. Mariana, you make the explaination as fluffy as you feel necessary, I like fluff.  :Smile:

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## Chrisjan B

Geez Andy one need a Doctorate in Whatever to decipher your above comment...

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## Citizen X

Mariana, you killing me here! Please oblige us??

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## pieksie

Hi everyone!  This is definitly a scam.  I've been in contact with them over email and wanted to find out how it works but all I get is that I should not even try to understand it!  What stupid response is that??  And then it even gets more ridiculous, he compares the business to KFC by saying the following.  Sorry I am just coping and pasting so it is in Afrikaans:

Het jy al "Kentucky Fried Chicken" geeet ?

Ja, verseker moes jy al, jy eet lekker en jy lek jou lippe en jou vingers af, maar jy kan vra nie hoe dit werk nie! Hulle het n resep soos "Wiseman Concept" n resep het wat enig van sy soort in die wereld is, hoekom moet ek jou vertel hoe dit werk as ek dan my deur emoet sluit?




Jy koop die "Kentucky" en jy eet dit na jy betaal het daarvoor!

Jy koop "Wiseman Kentucky" en jy eet dit en jy betaal nie daarvoor nie , dis mos nou "nice"!

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## pieksie

> Not all people are "dummies" - thousands of people have been helped by the "Wiseman Concept.
> 
> To get the correct information please contact the owner and designer of the Wiseman Telescopic Calculator. The owners name is Willem Botha and his sell number is 076 489 7473.
> 
> Please read the website www.wisemanconcept.mobi FAQ from 300 CA's, Actuaries, Estate agents, Bankers and Financial Advisers and the shocking results that "EVERYONE BADMOUTHING THE WISEMAN CONCEPT" is actualy the biggest scammers.
> 
> Let me give you a piece of the future , and how business will be run 5 years from today. Two options on all contract or purchase agreements will be mandadatory to all sales documentation where the client must sign for the information received:
> 1.) The normal way to buy where the purchaser will lose most of his investment e.g a car losing value after a certain time.
> 2.) The "Wiseman Telescopic Calculator" way where the purchaser will pay zero ( R 0.00 ) for the car. This system has already been proved successful in 2347 clients.
> ...



^^^  This one is definitely on the pay roll at wiseman scam...you will never get a straight answer about how it actually works, only looooongg emails saying nothing.

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## Garf

Maybe if I could read the book or use the calculator it might all become clear, but I can't find how to get hold of either on the website. Its magic if it works and then I would be able to recommend it to many of my struggling clients. But if it seems to good to be true.......................

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## Mariana

Ayjay

Those who Google "Wiseman Concept" and make the effort to "click" and open that comment, will see that it has nothing to do with 'Wiseman Concept" and from the only 3 negative comment 100% is conjecture, hearsay, no facts and brainwashed by the "sic" system! Sorry to say but you must be one of those being part of the real 'scam" namely the existing financial system. Show me just one person who has a better financial year than last year... if you can't, YOU ARE THE SCAM! The "Wiseman Concept" with its powerful "Telescopic Calculator" is the only system which is not a scam! 

The car you bought lost more than 50% of its value - IT'S A SCAM - are you the one supporting this system?
The clothes you bought lost more than 90% of its value - IT'S A SCAM - are you the one supporting this system?
The groceries you bought lost 100% of its value, ending up in the toilet - IT'S A SCAM - are you the one supporting this system?

The house you bought lost you 100% of the money you paid - Scam - are you one of them? 
On a 20 year bond you pay 10 years interest only - R 1 million house @ R 10 000 pm x 120 months = R 1 200 000 excluding insurance -SCAM - are you one of them? You will loose your house in approximately 8.33 years. Why do you think more that 15 000 repossessions on houses, cars, furniture, trucks, farms and plots are being repossessed in ONE MONTH?

The "Wiseman Concept" can be done by any 14 year old child, its not about intelligence, but about the level of indoctrination of the human brain!
Why do you think black people understand the "Wiseman Concept" easier and quicker than white people - they have less years of indoctrination!

Therefore it has nothing to do with being a dummy, but to place a comment based on conjecture, unsubstantiated hearsay and just writing off the most powerful "Financial Telescopic Calculator" ever designed, is really unintelligent!  

WE JUST LOWERED THE FUEL PRICE WITH 50% - IF YOU ARE A HOME OWNER WITH EQUITY, AND YOU PAY MORE THAN R 6.00 / liter for your fuel...YOU ARE PART OF THE SCAM WHICH GOT THE WORLD ECONOMY SHRINKING

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## Mariana

David

You ask the question "Has any new info come to light since"

Are you not surprised THAT NO INFO CAME IN?
Probably not, only "THINKERS" will, because you are supporting the biggest SCAM in the world and that is the existing financial system!
You read everyday about the economy going down, and the 15 000 repossessions monthly which were approved 4.33 years ago!
Intelligence is a very complicated part of the world down going economy - With millions of Financial Advisers, CA's, Actuaries, Accountants, Bankers who studied finances actually created this bad system...do they know how to rectify it? NO!!!!!! Why don't the rectify the problem? THEY CAN'T !!! Why? THEY DON'T KNOW HOW!!!. Only one conclusion, IF YOU BADMOUTH THE "WISEMAN TELESCOPIC CALCULATOR" BY SAYING IT IS A SCAM - THEN YOU ARE THE REAL SCAM! 

There is only one way to find out!!!
David are paying for your cars and your house?
If you do - You are the SCAM!!

ANY PERSON BADMOUTHING THE "WISEMAN CONCEPT" AND NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE BIGGEST ECONOMY SAVING PLAN EVER, ARE STEALING FROM THEIR FAMILY'S AND COUNTRY. There should be a law dealing with people "killing" the economy!

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## Mariana

have you ever bought Kentucky Fried Chicken and asked them the recipe before you pay?
You must be a very unprofessional or businessman or person to think that a system so huge can be blown all over internet!
A really sickening thought that there is people thinking like this!!

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## Mariana

David

You will always fail to follow because you don't ASK, you just PRESUME it's a scam, normal people call it conjectured rubbish and thumb sucking! JUST ASK!!

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## Mariana

Thank you Vanash!
You seems highly intelligent!
Answering a question the way you do, make you different from all the Davids and Ayjay's out there! Keep it up!

Ok...here comes my side of the story:
What I am about to show you is not "Wiseman Concept" but to prove to you that "ZERO" does exist!
This is not more than 14 year old mathematics, however the "Wiseman Concept" has been proved 5 x better than the "zero" formula!

The old system:
PLAN A ......A husband and wife saves over 4 years R 150 000 to buy a car for their son.
Currently awaiting the driver licence fiasco they invested the money with Allan Grey @ 10% per year ( Lets talk round figures ) earning R 1250 pm interest.

PLAN B ......A friend with very little financial sense suggest that they leave the R 150 000 in the bank and rather borrow R 150 000 @ 13.2% per year for 20 years.
This friend with little knowledge about anything was treated like an idiot because he suggested to pay R 1650 pm for 240 months and 3,2% more interest! Shame!

EVERY ONE CHOOSE A:
Why? Because it look cheaper!
What you are about to see is that the person choosing (A - cheaper plan ) think with his eyes and ears and not with his brain - many years will result in no brains and bigger eyes and ears, unfortunately the person choosing ( A ) lost R 240 000 in 7 years by listening to his eyes and ears!

Those who chose ( B-the more expensive plan and 20 years ) have gained the economy R 657 000 in 7 years, they got the bank to pay R 7000 to buy the car, fully paid the car, the bank interest was fully paid, the loan of R 150 000 was fully paid, the car is  in the garage, and the the husband and wife has R 177 000 in the bank... R 27 000 more than what they saved, and the drove the car for 7 years.

NOW!!!
GO TO STANDARD BANK WEBSITE
www.standardbank.co.za
Click on "HOME LOANS"
Click on "CALCULATOR:
Click on "WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU PAY MORE OR EXTRA"

USE YOUR CURRENT AVAILABLE RATE ( BETWEEN 7.5 - 8.5% )
Leave your money in the bank - use the interest to add as additional payment ( R 1250 )
YOU WILL SEE THAT PAYMENT OF THE LOAN WILL BE APPROXIMATELY 5.8 YEARS AND NOT @) YEARS ( Poor David & Ayjay )

NOW!!!
Between 5.8 years and 7 years ( Perfect figure ) approximately 14 months are left over after the bond is paid in full, the R 150 000 remains in the bank earning R1250pm + R 1650pm because the installment were paid up = R 1950 x 14 months =  R 40 600. WOW!!! But the family lost R 400 pm x 84 months because the were getting R 1250 interest and paying the bank R 1650 pm ( -R400 ). NOW!!! -R400pm x 84 months is R -R33 600, NOW !!! You saved R 40 600 in 14 months, you lost -R 400 because you have chosen (B) R 40 600 - R 33600 = +R 7000. ( Poor David & Ayjay )

NOW!!!
The bank lost nothing - R 0.00
They got the full R 150 000 paid back
They got all their interest + personal getting paid, creating thousands of JOBS - cool stuff!!
The car dealer has been paid his full R 150 000 - mechanics, sales staff, admin staff, cleaners, managers etc getting to work again - cool stuff!
The factory got there R 130 000 for building the car - thousands of factory workers, admin staff etc - cool stuff!
And you as the client ( husband & wife ) got R 177 000 in their bank, calculated as follow: R 150 000 remain in the bank, sell the car for R 20 000 ( Scam system ) and the bank paid you R 7000 to buy the car! ( Poor David and Ayjay and all the poor suckers out there who believe DAVID when he say its a scam )

David I have news for you - come right or face major financial problems in your life - don't steal money from your family's by NOT DOING THE "WISEMAN CONCEPT"

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pmbguy (05-Apr-13)

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## Mariana

AndyD
You seems very special like Vanash, please read the comment on Vanash - good luck!

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## Mariana

Hi all

If David read the explanation on Vanash reply, he should be branded the "FART OF THE MONTH"
How can an intelligent guy like David make a mistake like this.
I wonder if he has any property or equity, because thousands of readers being mislead and losing money should talk to their lawyers!
maybe they can make a quick buck!

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## Mariana

It is about building the economy, because the existing system sucks!
Everyone is losing money including you!
You can now buy petrol for R 6.00/liter if you qualify, without the government and fuel station owner lose money!
It also contradicts no law!
The "Wiseman Concept" touches NO money!
It is between the client and his bank - period !!

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## Mariana

It's about identifying those who steal from the economy and those who build the economy!
It is very simple - if you don't do "Wiseman" you steal from the economy and your family - just change your narrow mind and think out of the box like vanash and AndyD

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## Mariana

This is very complicated and not easy to grasp - it is the worlds only "economy building system" working opposite of the existing "not working" economy!
EVERY KNOWS THAT!!

Let me give you the shocking news!
For more that 15 years this secret were kept quite!
The CEO of Toyota South Africa say's it is 20 years ahead of time!
Anyone with equity and affordability can now buy a car without paying for it, and in the same time nobody loses money! 
YOU PAY!! BUT YOU DON'T PAY!!
That's all I can say!

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## Mariana

Wynn

Like I said before, the free money system is here, without anyone losing money!
Fraud has been stop!
Scams like property scams lately in the news were exposed by the 'Wiseman Concept"
If your purchase are not backed up by the "Wiseman Concept" - YOU WILL LOSE MONEY!!
An individual are now able to lower his own fuel price with 50% and more if he has equity of some sort! - Imagine the fuel station owner, Sasol and the Goverment can increase the fuel price with R 4.00/liter without the public paying for it! - Imagine the economical growth.
We can now lower the monthly installments on all equity bearing properties with 50%
We can now reduce the term from 20 years to 7 years without the banks losing one cent, in fact the banks can also increase the prime rate with another 4%

The "Wiseman Concept" has been proven, tested, bank investigated,and done by 2348 clients through all major banks.

Wynn, what you should do is, buy a car at zero cost to your budget! Prove it !
Ask your parents to reduce their 12 year bond term to 7 years at zero extra cost to their budget.
And many more like pay for the wedding, the dress, the venue, the holiday and the diamond ring, at zero cost to the brides father!
Children can now go to university at zero cost to their parents existing budget.

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## Mariana

Pieksie

Your have definitely the mentality of a Financial Adviser!
They always make statements without thinking what the say!
It is all so clear that you have no hope for running a business - you will always be bankrupt!
Are you jealous, or do you feel bad because I have identified you as a "Economy killer"
Tell us all...what have you done to bring your side in the economy?
Do you employ people?
Or do you steal from yourself?
Why do you want me to spill the magic beans and not pay for it like normal people do!
Do you know what the world call those types?
Go and read the latest TIMES MAGAZINE! - I rather not say it!

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## Mariana

Yeah Garf, that is how it sounds - TO GOOD TO BE TRUE!!
Everyone are used to getting nailed, be poor, suffer the high prices and living the pyramid system currently controlling everyone!!
Just think out of the box mate - Discovery is giving their clients 40% discount on petrol, FNB giving 15% on petrol, Standard bank advertise the R 0.00 system.
THE WHOLE OLD WORLD ORDER IS ABOUT TO CHANGE!
Wait for next 5 years and you will find a "Wiseman Political Party" - NO JOKE!!

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## Mariana

Pieksie

Jy het so pas uitgevind jy is die grootste SCAM in jou bedryf!
n Kommissie jagter en dan noem jy jouself n ADVISER! lol

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## adrianh

Mariana - you were given a fair oppertunity to make your case but you rather took the time to insult each and every person who responded to you negatively. 

I take it that Pieksie kicked your dog or stole your boyfriend, I can't think of any other reason for the way way treat her.

Then you went on to write a bit of cryptic waffle to those who are genuinely interested in your concept. 

If it was up to me I would toss yout butt off the forum!

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tec0 (17-Oct-12)

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## Justloadit

Marianna doth protest to much, which leads me to believe that it if it is too difficult to grasp, then it means that it is a scam.
We are a pretty intelligent bunch on this forum, from all walks of life, and if none of us can grasp what this is, then you know know it is snake oil!

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## Citizen X

> Thank you Vanash!
> You seems highly intelligent!
> Answering a question the way you do, make you different from all the Davids and Ayjay's out there! Keep it up!
> 
> Ok...here comes my side of the story:
> What I am about to show you is not "Wiseman Concept" but to prove to you that "ZERO" does exist!
> This is not more than 14 year old mathematics, however the "Wiseman Concept" has been proved 5 x better than the "zero" formula!
> 
> The old system:
> ...


A very good morning to you Mariana,
Since I've joined TFSA, I realised that this is a very reputable business and information community. We look to certain members to keep us in the loop about any potential scam(not saying yours is). I do know that trust, inegrity and reliability are cornerstones for continued success! *Hey, if what you doing is legit and complies with all legislation etc, then I wish you everything of the best going forward.* Just don't mess this 'right of reply opportunity,' up. Don't underestimate the bad press you can get from the way you respond here! Always keep the responses polite, courteous and without any disdainful language....

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## adrianh

So how do you do this in practice. No bank is going to give you a 20 year bond on even a R1.5million car because a car is a depreciating asset whereas a house is an appreciating asset.

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## wynn

I think I see a little of what Mariana is saying, but you need the cash price of the vehicle first.
If you keep your money in the bank, take out an HP or lease on the vehicle, use the interest you get to top up and amortize the HP over a shorter period, say 2.5 yrs instead of 5 at the end of the 2.5.yrs continue paying the HP amount that you would have paid anyway, but now you pay into your bank account for the rest of the 5 yr period and you will have more money than the car and the Half of the HP cost originally, because you have your interest plus half the period of the HP payments in the bank???

This will work for a bond as well but you need to have the purchase price first, not like most of us 'moegoes' who have 'niks' but a job and a credit facility to start with.

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## Justloadit

Well what is not factored into this calculation of course is the tax you pay on your interest earned. If I am not mistaken, only the first R20K of interest is exempt, and the balance of their interest is then added to your yearly income, and the total amount is then used to calculate your tax. Depending on this figure, it may have a huge influence on your compound interest.

Plan A, does not pay any tax on their installments, 
and 
secondly Plan A,  as you say for plan B, still does the following - "The car dealer has been paid his full R 150 000 - mechanics, sales staff, admin staff, cleaners, managers etc getting to work again - cool stuff!
The factory got there R 130 000 for building the car - thousands of factory workers, admin staff etc - cool stuff!"

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Dave A (06-Oct-12)

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## Justloadit

There is a saying that "Cash is King" however if you do not have the cash, there is no way of building your wealth, but to start by borrowing.

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## Dave A

Anyone got a really good Excel amortisation schedule spreadsheet? The tool I normally use isn't postable as an attachment.

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## wynn

I remember a few years ago there was a system that if you cashed in enough of your pension to pay off your house then continued contributing what you would have paid the bank on the bond on the house back into the pension scheme, at the end of a twenty year bond period you would have more in the pension scheme than if you had maintained the status quo??
Basically you would have earned the banks portion of the interest on the bond which was a hell of a lot more than the miserable interest the pension scheme contributed to your policy.

Of course you had to diligently pay every month or you would lose out.

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## Mariana

You don't have to be interested...........we only deal with the more intelligent level of people...I mean if you can't see where you are going...your'e a lost case!

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## adrianh

Ah, I see you're back to promote your idea by insulting everybody.

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## pieksie

> Pieksie
> 
> Jy het so pas uitgevind jy is die grootste SCAM in jou bedryf!
> n Kommissie jagter en dan noem jy jouself n ADVISER! lol



 :Confused:  

Waarvan praat jy vrou?  Genade, en jy wil hê mense moet jou ernstig opneem?  Al wat jy doen is om mense te beledig.

En nee, ek noem myself nie 'n adviser nie, het nog nooit nie en sal ook nooit nie.  Weet nie waar kom jy daaraan nie.

Ek sal nie verder reply op jou silly posts nie want ek is nie hier om te baklei nie.  Tensy jy actually iets sinvol kan sê maar ek sal nie my asem ophou nie.

Jy is 'n joke.

lol

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## Citizen X

It finally occurred to me! I stand corrected! Initially I said, this particular thread had a tabloid effect for me, a reality tv effect, and that this was very appealing indeed! Right concept, wrong show! Jerry Springer, thats what some of the interactions here remind me of. We dont have the boxing ring bell though!
*Some advise to future respondents:*
1. Give a proper right of reply, focus only on the merits;
2. Deny the allegation and clarify, state your case briefly, clearly and concisely so that we may all follow what is actually transpiring between the parties;
3. Dont become defensive, rather just deny, but being defensive makes you look guilty! You may not be guilty of the allegation but by demonstrating defensiveness you come across that way;
4. Dont become offensive, saying nasty, personal things about the person complaining, again, it just doesnt make you look good!

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## Dave A

Personally I just leave people who think they're winning the argument by insulting others to shoot themselves in the foot.

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Citizen X (16-Oct-12), tec0 (15-Oct-12)

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## tec0

> Ok...here comes my side of the story:
> What I am about to show you is not "Wiseman Concept" but to prove to you that "ZERO" does exist!
> This is not more than 14 year old mathematics, however the "Wiseman Concept" has been proved 5 x better than the "zero" formula!


Some time ago there was this door to door sales person that tried to take me for a ride. The only reason why I let her in was because she was a young female and it was late at night. Our aria is classified as a red zone by our local police “high crime aria” My family and I feared for her safety. Hindsight would show she used this fact against us. 

I nearly ended up buying some stupid device to help with my mother’s medical condition. After dropping the girl at her friend’s car I came home and did a search on the device. Turns out to be a load of crap… But the contract was a bigger load of crap!!! I ended up having to go to the consumer council and open a case against the company. 

I had so much crap to deal with that I lost money “because while I was dealing with the crap I wasn’t working” In the end the Judge made a ruling in my favour.  Case closed. 

Now this dude comes along assuming we will believe every single word that comes out of her/his mouth? That said I use to be a very trusting person. Lately I became a total a$$hole thanks to people that wants to steal my money and not earn it.

Thank you but fuck you! You have no right to insult anyone here, if you are a spokesperson for the company with this type of condescending attitude you can take your concept and stick it where the sun don’t shine. Thanks to a$$holes like you I became “subhuman” living in a world without trust. 

You have no honour, you have no substance... Now please take a drive and get lost!

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Chrisjan B (16-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> Personally I just leave people who think they're winning the argument by insulting others to shoot themselves in the foot.


Dave, I think when it comes to this particular thread, you put on your 'Jerry Springer,' cap :Smile:

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## Mariana

You see, that is what I mean, you can say what ever you like without substance, total conjecture and hearsay....you are the one insulting the greatest system ever designed, and when I reply you call that insulting........why don't you show your face for a meeting and then apologize for your rude behavior...........after the meeting you will apologize and then we deter-main the financial damage you caused and see if you got something to rectify your damage...........I challenge you, i bet you you do not have the guts because you are only an empty drum .....

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## Mariana

That would be very cool!
You shot yourself in the foot mate!
If did not you would set up a meeting and get your head  to work properly!
It is a proven fact, that if you pay for your car for 60 months and your value depreciated with 70% you lost on a R 200 000 car R 140 000.
If you did not make use of the "Wiseman Concept" where you would pay zero for the same car, you actually stole R 200 000 from your family and yourself!
10 years from now you could go to jail for this.

Do you read your newspapers? did you see that discovery is pay 50% of your petrol bill, did you see FNB pay 15% of your petrol bill, did you see Standard bank has R 0.00 payments.............if you did not, that is the problem, you know nothing from the world around you. Comments from these people are treated as being dummy"s and not taken up seriously. Do you think all internet users don't have brains, they are very clever and ignore insults from you and those like you!

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## Mariana

As jy my beledig as n scam, moet ek stilbly en toelaat dat iemand so oningelig soos jy onaangeraak bly! Jy is n "dreamer" en leef in n "fantacy world" van jou eie.
Iets sinvols is dat jy moet hou by die scam waarin jy leef en as ek dit reg het, en jy het jou budget vir my getsuur onder n ander vals naam, want ek het net vir een persoon van die "Kentucky resep" vertel.....................jy is reeds "down and out" ..................hoe kan jy hulp vra as jy so beledigend is. As jy n eiendom gehad het met equity ( wat jy nie het nie ) sou ek hom gevat het, vir skade vergoeding. Daar is nie pille vir domgeit nie!................en ek beledig jou nie, ek antwoord net jou post!

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## Citizen X

Mariana, for a potantial defamation suit, you will firstly require such form of infringement of rights; your second hurdle will be the obvious, many individuals on TFSA and rightfully so go by aliases; thirdly, I don't think you've considered the knock off effect of any litigation i.e. investigative journalists begging the public for a new story and last but certainly not least, since the law allows me to defend myself, I will only to be happy to personally engage you. On this pleasant note, I will enter an apperance, my plea will have merits with a counterclaim. _Now ordinarily_ you would rightfully think that you would then by way of pleadings deliver a plea in reconvention. I wouldn't blame you! But not so, you will in effect deliver a replication! Why, simply becuase my counterclaim will have new allegations you which you would then also have a right of reply. You do so to new allegations reaised in a defendants counterclaim _via replication_. Ideally since the quantum of damages is unliquidated, you sue out combined summons. _Believe me you don't want to go this route!_ Court gives me a high!!!!! _Think of it like this for what ever reason you have found yourself in the scam alert forum_. Initially you were coming across as defensive _but then you did start to explain yourself_. I actually saw the human behind you! Don't mess this public opportunity of right of reply up! You can still clarify, simply say, look, I over reacted, I'm also someone who just wants to make it in life. I'm not robbing anyone. My clientele come of their own free will.Kinldy desist from unwarranted threats of litigation!
*It can still end well, just show some humanity, show us that you just a typical human being trying to make it??*

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## Nigel Hamilton

I just want to bring attention to some TFSA members to "Southern Africa’s mental health awareness initiative"

http://www.mentalhealthsa.co.za/

If i have posted in the wrong thread, then i apologise  :Smile:

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Darkangelyaya (20-Nov-12)

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## Mariana

How else would you get your brain checked out ............not by bending before you!

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## Mariana

All the same for you...people responding like you...pse read your own comment and apply it twice to yourself!

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## Mariana

All good real good things had a entrance of ......"seems to good to be true"

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## Citizen X

> All good real good things had a entrance of ......"seems to good to be true"


A he said, she said scenario! *I love this!**Mariana, help me to help you!!!* Think of it another way, you were innocently walking by this road and *somehow*, you just happened upon the grave yard for businesses.* Why*, is irrelevant at this early stage. At this very early stage, you simply say, _Why am I in this graveyard?_* I shouldn’t be here!!* This is the place for those ‘professors,’ who never went to school, yet they professors and they claim to have a cure for hiv, aids and cancer and for good measure they’ll even give you the lotto numbers, for a small fee of-course. 
*Notwithstanding how or why you got here, you are still nonetheless here!* Help me to help you get out of this grave? It’s simple: 1: How much do you charge for your service/product/concept? 2: How do clients procure your services?? 3: How do they pay you??? 4: Are you forthcoming with them about the prospects of the success of your product/service/concept?(I’ll give you a hint: If I tell you that I can get you the lotto numbers for R500 but I add that sometimes my ancestors are busy, they send the wrong numbers and this is at your own risk, and you agree; then if you don’t win the Lotto , you made an informed choice 5: Are you deliberately misleading anyone? 6: How do you handle complaints? *And lastly* for my own understanding why do you believe anyone will want to have a meeting with you???

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## Mariana

adrianh...are all of the critic's so thick to say "HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT PIEKSIE"
Pieksie insulted the "Wiseman Concept and me by sayings it's a scam... how thick must she be by doing that, without any info, knowledge, or reason!
Why do everyone have to turn the other cheek when insulted ....do you know what it means when someone says it's "definitely a scam" without any investigation.
All the banks have more than 400 complaints in 6 months, the Wiseman Concept has zero complaints, the 4 complaints when searching Google are not claims and only self centered hollo conjecture like Pieksie's... and those supporting her, has the same level of intelligence.

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## Mariana

Why can't you say...sorry i have over reacted... you started it all!

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## adrianh

So Mariana, let me just make sure that you are qualified to speak about financial matters:

You graduated from Stellenbosch technical college in 1977 then you started a beauty salon in 2005.... (I take it you studied hairdressing at college - right?)

....ok, so how come you know more about finance than a chartered accountant? 

....could it be because you are trying to pull the hair (sorry wool) over our eyes?

 :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Citizen X

> So Mariana, let me just make sure that you are qualified to speak about financial matters:
> 
> You graduated from Stellenbosch technical college in 1977 then you started a beauty salon in 2005.... (I take it you studied hairdressing at college - right?)
> 
> ....ok, so how come you know more about finance than a chartered accountant? 
> 
> ....could it be because you are trying to pull the hair (sorry wool) over our eyes?


Mariana, I told you, you found yourself, for whatever reason, in a place noone really wants to be in! I can only speak for myself! I'll plead your case, if you bona fide, that is: Again, use the following as a guideline:
This is the place for those ‘professors,’ who never went to school, yet they professors and they claim to have a cure for hiv, aids and cancer and for good measure they’ll even give you the lotto numbers, for a small fee of-course. 
*Notwithstanding how or why you got here, you are still nonetheless here!* Help me to help you get out of this grave? It’s simple: 1: How much do you charge for your service/product/concept? 2: How do clients procure your services?? 3: How do they pay you??? 4: Are you forthcoming with them about the prospects of the success of your product/service/concept?(I’ll give you a hint: If I tell you that I can get you the lotto numbers for R500 but I add that sometimes my ancestors are busy, they send the wrong numbers and this is at your own risk, and you agree; then if you don’t win the Lotto , you made an informed choice 5: Are you deliberately misleading anyone? 6: How do you handle complaints?

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## Mariana

Too much protest????
Wouldn't you protest when you are called a scam?
"a Pretty intelligent bunch ...that is what you call you guys on the Forum"... no wonder they are up in arms because they were proved wrong!
lf you are a car salesman, and you do not tell your client that he will lose 70% of his value of his car in 5 years, whilst he would lose nothing through the 'Wiseman Concept", the client will have the right to sue the salesman. That is the future friend...grasp this, those who don't, will go down financially...

Using the word "GRASP" by an "intelligent bunch" ( As you call yourself ) is so sad, no wonder the whole economy is collapsing, and NOBODY is doing anything about it, not even those created it. Everybody blames the government... what a crap excuse, they do a good job, it's the intelligent bunch who is to blame. 

If those who are against the "Wiseman Concept"... are against financial growth, poverty, wealth, job creation and a good life, and if they are against these very important economy building blocks, they are in favor for a financial collapse, for poverty, against wealth, for no jobs, and for a bad life where people commit suicide because intelligent people runs the show. JUST READ THE PAPERS!

I know this is a controversial system... but why can't one of these so called intelligent bunch invites the author to explain himself!
IS THIS NOT THE INTELLIGENT WAY?...IT'S SO SIMPLE A CHILD COULD WORK THIS OUT!

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## Mariana

Areal nice reply vanish, welcome to the "Good Fellas club" - you definatelly qualify for thew "Perfect Mind Club"

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## Mariana

You got it wrong adrianh, you need affordability and credibility!
You may use 30% of your income for a car, and 30% for a house... bank laws! 
I don't understand the full direction of your question...all deals are normal deals, we contravene no law or rule...Every page on the Website promote the banking sector as *" YOUR BANK IS YOUR BEST FRIEND"*

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## adrianh

Eish Mariana, may I ask a personal question, you don't come across as being very lady-like or pleasant;

 do you play rugby, wressle or perhaps do hammer throw... you should you know, it's very good for venting all your anger.....

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## Mariana

Wynn, you are smart bugger... thumbs up for you..wynn for president !!!! YEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
It is not the  "Wiseman" way, but good golly, THIS IS GOOD, why do you think all the "intelligent bunch" ( Adriah ) guys can't figure that one out! I would like you to meet the author, owner and designer of the "Wiseman Telescopic Calculator" This brilliant product will save Greece and Spain within 30 days.

Wynn, work this one out, I like talking to intelligent people...
USA and GERMANY gave GREECE $ 130 000 000 000 to save them from collapse ( We go the same way with all the intelligent bunches  "adrianh" talks about) Remember !! USA billion has 9 zero's ( 000 000 000 ) The Europe billion has like South Africa 12 zero's ( 000 000 000 000 ) 

The dollar being worth R 8.00 makes this R 1 000 000 000 000 ....its a lot of money mate!( for the example )
Now this money is "gone" and a second bailout was paid out... crazy and they are still in trouble!
All the intelligent Advisers the world have, have failed because they do not make use of the "Wiseman Telescopic Calculator"

Work this out, if every working family in Greece ( 5 000 000) were paid the R 1 000 000 000 000 ( I use rand for this example )

The "Wiseman Concept" would have solved the problem as follows:
1.) Every family would have received R 200 000, this would have made them to buy a car at zero rand and half their monthly installment on their mortgage bonds!
2.) 2 000 000 more jobs would have been created!
3.) PROBLEM SOLVED - because the solution is not in the upper class but in the working class!

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## Mariana

Yeahhhhh!!!!!
Another intelligent man getting the picture!!! I love it!!
I hope the other critics  ( dummy ) read this, but I bet you they would not understand it.

Ok... about the tax
When you HP a car you can only claim 20% per annum ( meaning over 5 years ) in 5 year HP
When you lease the car ( Business ) you claim all the tax. This is brilliant, because company's buy cars now and keep millions on the job. The Government now gets back the 20% lost in a private car from PAYI TAX because of the millions of jobs being created.

The Tax, interest became irrelevant... already proved!!
We already lowered the fuel price with R6.00/ litre...proved 
We will meet with Mineral and Energy Affiars in due course explaining the adds on all the bill boards.
Good luck
You're  brilljiant, you mus meet the Owner and author of the "Wiseman Concept"

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## Mariana

I will create your cash... It's easy!!
Just ask me how and go on www.wisemanconcept.mobi
Everybody can be helped... that is the job of the "Wiseman Concept", its GREAT, ITS SUPER POWERFUL, IT'S TRUE, IT'S UNIQUE, IT'S AMAZING, and it is MIND BLOWING and only made to understand by the brainy bunch!

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## adrianh

You must be talking about Willem Botha. Hmmm you should introduce him to Jill Marcus, I'm sure she'll be thrilled to meet such a clever man!

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## Mariana

CASH IS NOT KING !!!
It is the biggest cancer "killing" the economy!
It is like Debt counselling ( It should be stopped ) IT WILL BE STOPPED !!
It is like ITC ( It should be stopped ) IT WILL BE BANNED....trust me because the "Wiseman Concept" made every deal; risk free for banks!
The first constitutional court case is already underway! ( 3 Years from now everything you know will change ) we can't carry on with this "sic" system!

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## Citizen X

> Areal nice reply vanish, welcome to the "Good Fellas club" - you definatelly qualify for thew "Perfect Mind Club"


Mariana, you messing up big time on right of reply!!! Your potential clients are viewing this thread as we speak!!! It's still not to late!! I can still escort you out of the graveyard for businesses, a little humility will help though AND if you really threaten litigation, have you thought about jurisdiction!!! Some people on this thread are in Cape Town, others in Durban and me, well, I'm a Joburg man, so which court will have jurisdiction and who will cover the costs of all those plane trips should your matter be dismissed!!
I’d really like to be perceived for what I really am, see me as the baker in that supermarket! Baker’s apron, flour all over myself, the tantalizing smell of bread and various cakes *BUT* I’m very flexible too, if management decide that they want to move me to the next department on very short notice i.e. the butcher and they further inform me that due to financial constraints, we now slaughter the animals ourselves. I’ll simply take off my baker’s apron and casually put on my butchers apron, take my butcher’s knife, quickly slit the throat of the sheep, you must understand, I don’t want to work overtime! Again very quickly slice it up and pack it nice and neat for you to buy! *I’m the baker, please don’t make me the butcher!!!*

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## Mariana

ARE YOU NOW ADMITTING THAT IT IS POSSIBLE - YOU TALK BEFORE YOU THINK DAVID - SHOW YOUR FACE IN A FACE TO FACE MEETING WITH THE OWNER OF THIS INCREDIBLE CALCULATOR.....NO MORE ADVISERS AND " CLEVER" GUYS NEEDED... JUST THE "WISEMAN CALCULATOR"

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## Mariana

BRILLIANT MATE ... BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

TWO YEARS FROM NOW, BILL BOARDS, ADVERTISING BOARDS WILL BLOW OUT THE FOLLOWING SLOGAN:

ARE YOU A FOOL OR A WISEMAN?...........WYNN YOU WILL DEFINITELY NOT BE A FOOL

PLEASE MEET THE OWNER AND AUTHOR....YOU WILL BE A RICH MAN WITH THAT BRAIN!

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## adrianh

@Mariana - are you stoned?

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## Mariana

Shame on you David......You insulted the "Wiseman Concept" first!
I do not blame you because to understand the workings of this brilliant concept, needs more than meets the eye !
You fell in your own hole mate...speak for yourself!

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## Mariana

Measured by the quote above ... anyone can see that you are really low class, with no brain!

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## Citizen X

> @Mariana - are you stoned?


"I'm not the kinda guy you take home, I still get stoned,' Mariana, 'if it makes you happy and why the hell are you so sad?"

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## Citizen X

> Too much protest????
> Wouldn't you protest when you are called a scam?


Well, in your favour, by a mere quirk, it is strike season!!!

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## Mariana

adrainh, with all the financial qualifications in the world, they all failed because they hide behind their qualifications!
Lets give an example, not that will understand it, but lets try:

The World Bank with all it's knowledge and qualifications failed to save General motors in the USA
General Motors USA went bankrupt after years of trying hard using their qualifications you talk about.

When they failed president Obama with all his highly qualified Financial Advisers borrowed $ 400 000 000 to the banks to help save General Motors! 
They all failed...GM went BANG !!!

Do you think they knew what they were doing?.........NO Mr Qualifications, it helped them nothing!!!!!!!!
If they were so clever, why did they not think of a plan how to save General Motors?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO PLAN!!!!! Mr Qualification!

IF THEY HAVE USED THE "WISEMAN CONCEPT" THEY WOULD NEVER HAVE WENT BANG!!!!
ARE YOU ONE OF THEM MR QUALIFICATION!
STICK YOUR PRIDE WHERE IT BELONGS AND JOIN THE GREATEST SYSTEM EVER INVENTED, IT EVEN MAKES EINSTEIN A JUNIOR !!

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## Mariana

How do I get to defend myself if your accusations has the mentality of a bully, badmouthing people you have no clue off. I wish I can meet your wife, she must have a terrible life with all your false accusations...remember it runs in the blood!

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## Mariana

YEAHHHH!!!
JILL MARKUS ARE COOL!

Now you are talking...make the introduction!

Send your picture and after the meeting we will put your pic on internet as "FOOL OF THE YEAR"
You hide behind good people, show your face!

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## Citizen X

> adrainh, with all the financial qualifications in the world, they all failed because they hide behind their qualifications!
> Lets give an example, not that will understand it, but lets try:
> 
> The World Bank with all it's knowledge and qualifications failed to save General motors in the USA
> General Motors USA went bankrupt after years of trying hard using their qualifications you talk about.
> 
> When they failed president Obama with all his highly qualified Financial Advisers borrowed $ 400 000 000 to the banks to help save General Motors! 
> They all failed...GM went BANG !!!
> 
> ...


What you saying does have merit Mariana, Marley put it this way," I don't have education, I have inspiration, If I was educated by the way of this world, I would be a damn fool!"

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## Citizen X

> Measured by the quote above ... anyone can see that you are really low class, with no brain!


I actually admit it, I am the low cast! I don't know, I'm a hobo!

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## Mariana

Read the posts of Wynn, Justloadit, these guys are good company...please meet with them and they might influence you...Why do you write in bold and emphasize  when you write. 

If you don't do "Wiseman Concept" you are "killing the economy!
And if you don't stop threatening the Wiseman Concept, and spreading lies about the "Wiseman Concept"  you will be the first to "butchered" by a court of law. Go away and come back another day!

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## adrianh

Mariana - I have to ask again - are you drunk, I really hope so because I certainly hope that this isn't the way you normally speak to potential customers?

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## Mariana

You say nothing.....your words get less, your badmouthing gets less, your guts fade in the mist, you show signs of losing your battle and are to proud to admit that the "Wiseman Concept" are the greatest invention in the history of the world.

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## Mariana

Go for it mate!

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## Mariana

Thanks God you have seen the lite...Why all the fighting, you are actually getting anti - hypnotized from your brainwashing you've been in.
Welcome back brother!!!
Use your inspiration and talk to the first guy you see and cut his fuel bill with 50%... YES !!! PROVEN and TESTED

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## adrianh

You know, I think that you are not actually Mariana, I think that you are Willem, and that you are really really bitter. 

Maybe we should ask Mariana on Facebook whether she normally uses such terrible agressive language. I bet you she doesn't.

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## Mariana

You say nothing!
are you something or nothing?

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## Mariana

There is now hope for you... stay a common man, because that is the people we help!

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## Citizen X

> There is now hope for you... stay a common man, because that is the people we help!


At the end of the day Mariana, if people want to pay for your service and if they understand what it is they buying and all risks associated with it, then I guess, that's between you and them, a civil agreement aka contract. The way I see it you not forcing anyone by gunpoint to buy your concept and I think you don't make unsolicited calls, emails etc, then the client can't complain afterwards. You must not misrepresent/mislead anything to them however, be very , very careful there!

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tec0 (16-Oct-12)

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## tec0

> Why don't you show your face for a meeting and then apologize for your rude behavior


Right, mind if I bring a couple of friends along? I am sure someone from the South African Revenue Service would love to talk to you. After all you are working with massive amounts of money right. 




> A suspicious activity refers to any conducted or attempted activity or pattern or display of transactions that you know, suspect or have reason to suspect that typically meets any of the following conditions:
> 
>     A person or business is eligible for any type of tax but not paying any form of tax;
>     A person or business employs people and deducts PAYE from the employees but not issuing IRP5 certificates to the employees;
>     Imported goods being sold on the open market at a price lower than “landed cost” i.e. less than what it would cost to purchase the goods, transport them and pay VAT and duty on importation
>     A person or business is eligible for any type of tax, registered for the tax, but not submitting the required returns to SARS;
>     A person is living beyond his obvious financial means – displaying unusually high life-style patterns for a person with similar forms of income;
>     An importer (including the clearing agent) that is found to have not declared, mis-declared or under-declared goods upon importation on more than one occasion;
>     An importer or exporter (including the clearing agent) that enters a Voucher of Correction on more than one occasion;
> ...


Also I am sure you are an authorised financial services provider so you wouldn't mind authenticating that now would you? I am sure that the people at the Financial Services Board can be of some assistance after all it is a simple matter of public record I am sure they will not mind. 

That said, and more importantly I am not interested in what you have to say so it would be a waste of my time really. I don't like wasting my time...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

But I am thinking that just maybe I must invest some of my time in contacting some of the custodians/ responsible entities and see what pops up?

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## tec0

> At the end of the day Mariana, if people want to pay for your service and if they understand what it is they buying and all risks associated with it, then I guess, that's between you and them, a civil agreement aka contract. The way I see it you not forcing anyone by gunpoint to buy your concept and I think you don't make unsolicited calls, emails etc, then the client can't complain afterwards. You must not misrepresent/mislead anything to them however, be very , very careful there!


Jip I would second that Vanash...  :Yes:

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Citizen X (17-Oct-12)

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## Scaffold

Bwahahahahahahahaaa!! I so enjoy this thread...I can see the point on both sides. Mariana may be on to something and me, having an open mind, would love to delve deeper into this concept and see what it realy is. However, its sooo funny how she rants and raves and goes ballistic when she is trying to win customers or show us "the light". Very very entertaining.

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## tec0

> Bwahahahahahahahaaa!! I so enjoy this thread...I can see the point on both sides. Mariana may be on to something and me, having an open mind, would love to delve deeper into this concept and see what it realy is. However, its sooo funny how she rants and raves and goes ballistic when she is trying to win customers or show us "the light". Very very entertaining.


I also have no idea what it actually is... But all I do see is lot of insults and apparently we are too narrow-minded and to uneducated to see the big picture. It is a new concept actually; I have to give that… Basically you need to trust them but you are not allowed to know what the secret it… Or so it would seem?

I do know however normally when you thinking investments you want black and white risk and reward and everything else “including but not limited the kitchen sink” It is all about being informed and it is all about the paper work and legitimacy/performance background checks.

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## Scaffold

Absolutely...so we have to pay someone to explain the concept to us?? or do we pay them to pull a rabbit out the hat and save me from my debt? Im not sure what it is that we pay for and if we even have to pay at all?? :Stupid: Either way it sounds very interresting and would love to get to the bottom of it. Im not going to dismiss the concept purely based on one persons inabillity to communicate in a proper, humble way. But the main reason for me telling you all this is that I feel I just have to get involved in this "party"!! Its made my week!! :Fence:

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## Citizen X

> Absolutely...so we have to pay someone to explain the concept to us?? or do we pay them to pull a rabbit out the hat and save me from my debt? Im not sure what it is that we pay for and if we even have to pay at all??Either way it sounds very interresting and would love to get to the bottom of it. Im not going to dismiss the concept purely based on one persons inabillity to communicate in a proper, humble way. But the main reason for me telling you all this is that I feel I just have to get involved in this "party"!! Its made my week!!


I couldn't have said it better myself!
Mariana, there's something I simply have to tell you!!..
“*Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!* *Die lewe is te kort daarvoor**.
Ek wil myself geniet.Daar bly nog duisend vreugdes oor.
Ek wil myself besluit, om nooit ooit weer deur een soos jy te ly.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!*Toe loop nou.*Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!*


Inleiding

Jy, staan nou weer voor my deur en sê ek moet jou weer terug neem.
Jy, wat my al talle maal so seer gemak het en dan net lag.
Jy, wat ander manne vat en dan dink dit is net 'n spel.
Luister mooi wat ek nou vir jou sê ... he, he.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Die lewe is te kort daarvoor.
Ek wil myself geniet.
Daar bly nog duisend vreugdes oor.
Ek wil myself besluit, om nooit ooit weer deur een soos jy te ly.
_Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!_
Toe loop nou.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Ek, ek is gelukkig nou.
En as ek aan jou dink wil ek lag.
Om, te weet dat ek kan leef sonder die seerkry van jou ontrou.
Jy, het lank genoeg gestaan.
Toe loop en gaan jou gang.
Luister mooi wat ek nou vir jou sê ... he,he.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Die lewe is te kort daarvoor.
Ek wil myself geniet.
Daar bly nog duisend vreugdes oor.
Ek wil myself besluit, om nooit ooit weer deur een soos jy te ly.
_Ek wil jou nooit weer sien._
Toe loop nou.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Los tog jou leuens nou, daar niks te bou nou.
Alles is klaar tussen ons.
Daar is 'n wêreld, 'n oop vrye wêreld.
Niemand gaan my ooit weer kul.
Ja, in die môre, môre gaan dit ander wees.
Ja ek gaan lewe, lewe sonder jou.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Die lewe is te kort daarvoor.
Ek wil myself geniet.
Daar bly nog duisend vreugdes oor.
Ek wil myself besluit, om nooit ooit weer deur een soos jy te ly.
_Ek wil jou nooit weer sien._
Toe loop nou.
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!
Ek wil jou nooit weer sien!"

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tec0 (17-Oct-12)

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## pieksie

JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!   :Bananadance:

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## tec0

I found this; 




> On 26 May 2008 an iafrica.com reader asked if I had ever heard of "The Wiseman Concept" (click here to read the original article). I had not so I logged onto the website to glean some information. Besides the fact that it was clear that it was an amateur operation, the content raised some very loud alarm bells.
> 
> In my previous article I stated that they claimed to help you pay off your bond in six years without increasing your monthly instalments. The rest of the information on the website is an attempt to hoodwink anyone with perseverance enough to read it.
> 
> I contacted the owner of the Wiseman Concept, Mr Willem Botha, and asked him to please explain how he achieves his "magic". He told me, in all earnest, that I probably did not have the intelligence to understand the concept because very few people have the superior minds or analytical skills necessary to comprehend the plan; not even actuaries. He refused to explain it to me over the phone, but suggested that we should meet face to face. After a few emails had been exchanged it became clear to me that he was not a person to be reasoned with. I then left a message on his phone declining a face to face interview.
> 
> Six months has passed and Mr Botha has one again come into focus. This time because he and his cronies are threatening and intimidating a woman who nearly fell prey to his scam.
> 
> She realised after signing the documentation that she would be in a far worse financial position if she subscribed to his scheme. She invoked the cooling off period that the NCR has mandated for loans and instructed the attorneys to cancel. Since then Mr Botha and his sidekick, Jannie, have shown up at her place of work making threats and demanding that she hand over R60 000 commission he was going to charge her.
> ...

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## adrianh

Vat so fluffie.... :2guns:

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## Citizen X

> JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!


JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!  :Bananadance:

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## Scaffold

> JERRY JERRY JERRY JERRY!!!!!


TAKE IT OFF TAKE IT OFF TAKE IT OFF!!!!!  :Bananadance:

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## Mariana

I did answer you - the Forum failed to place the true answer!

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## Mariana

It just shows the quality of the Forums members - they said nothing, proved nothing, accept that some of them are dummies!

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## tec0

> It just shows the quality of the Forums members - they said nothing, proved nothing, accept that some of them are dummies!





> She invoked the cooling off period that the NCR has mandated for loans and instructed the attorneys to cancel. Since then Mr Botha and his sidekick, Jannie, have shown up at her place of work making threats and demanding that she hand over R60 000 commission he was going to charge her.


And you yourself failed to address this pressing matter? More importantly you are yet to show any form of legitimacy?

You keep on insisting that we are dummies and so on… Any professional knows you don’t do anything without some form of legitimacy. I do understand that your “product” is a secret that said any company needs to be able to backup their claims and show that they are legitimate and recognised by all government entities involved.

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## Citizen X

> And you yourself failed to address this pressing matter? More importantly you are yet to show any form of legitimacy?
> 
> You keep on insisting that we are dummies and so on… Any professional knows you don’t do anything without some form of legitimacy. I do understand that your “product” is a secret that said any company needs to be able to backup their claims and show that they are legitimate and recognised by all government entities involved.


Mariana, I'm willing to accept that there's a flip side of a coin! I'm willing to accept that you have a version of events! That sais, credibilty as a company is something a business builds! Based on the way you have been responding, you lack credibilty from my perspective! *It's now this credibility which you should in earnest try and restore..*

See this as the Public Relations aspect of business!! I'm sure that you don't want to take the Government's approach to public relations, when serious things transpire, they seem to have a paraphrase "That comment is unfortunate!"
No matter how complex your concept may be, you must be able to explain it simply , state your fee, price, terms and conditions and disclaimer in 1 short, paragraph.
I can't help but agree with Tec0, he correctly says that you failed to address this pressing matter! Don't you want some form of closure??? It can still happen, appease your former client Pieksie(If Pieksie is a former client, I'm not sure? *Point, make good to any formry client, with complaints, in cash or kind right here, give complaining clients something back eg cash or kind??)* Word of mouth, especially the bad kind from any of your actual clients may prove to be to your detriment!!!)

----------

tec0 (18-Oct-12)

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## adrianh

Hey Mariana,

...now repeat after me: "I am a nice person and I am nice to my customers"

...try this 5 times in the morning and 5 times at night.

You will choke on it for the first couple of months but you may be able to get it right eventually....

 :Chair:

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## pieksie

> Mariana, I'm willing to accept that there's a flip side of a coin! I'm willing to accept that you have a version of events! That sais, credibilty as a company is something a business builds! Based on the way you have been responding, you lack credibilty from my perspective! *It's now this credibility which you should in earnest try and restore..*
> 
> See this as the Public Relations aspect of business!! I'm sure that you don't want to take the Government's approach to public relations, when serious things transpire, they seem to have a paraphrase "That comment is unfortunate!"
> No matter how complex your concept may be, you must be able to explain it simply , state your fee, price, terms and conditions and disclaimer in 1 short, paragraph.
> I can't help but agree with Tec0, he correctly says that you failed to address this pressing matter! Don't you want some form of closure??? It can still happen, appease your former client Pieksie(If Pieksie is a former client, I'm not sure? *Point, make good to any formry client, with complaints, in cash or kind right here, give complaining clients something back eg cash or kind??)* Word of mouth, especially the bad kind from any of your actual clients may prove to be to your detriment!!!)



I am not actually a former client.  I just wanted to know how their business work but unfortunately I only got the same responses that Mariana is giving here.  Only insults and no answers.  :Banghead:

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## Citizen X

> I am not actually a former client. I just wanted to know how their business work but unfortunately I only got the same responses that Mariana is giving here. Only insults and no answers.


Surely, from a public relations perspective, no company will want bad press! The idea is to win hearts and mins when you in this predicament, not go on the offensive! Here's the thing, if any of my friends and family and community members ever raise the topic 'wiseman concept,' I will have no choice but to inform them of what I deduced from this thread!

Mariana you are conspicuous by your absence, your silence is deafening!

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## Chrisjan B

In plain Afrikaans - ek so iemand soos Wiseman en vriende al lankal moertoe gestuur het....

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Citizen X (18-Oct-12), tec0 (20-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> In plain Afrikaans - ek so iemand soos Wiseman en vriende al lankal moertoe gestuur het....


Chrismine, I couldn't have said it better myself! *In fact, I've now committed that to memory for future use!!!!!!

*

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## Scaffold

Mariana only responds to posts from about 11:00pm.. She must be very busy at work to only return home so late at night. Guess she has to work extra hard to make it!! Those bonds on the house can make life difficult I suppose. O'well, I'll just carry on being ignorant and live my happy life with my 6 hour a day job. Atleast Im happy!! :Drunk:

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## Perform Computers

> It just shows the quality of the Forums members - they said nothing, proved nothing, accept that some of them are dummies!


This female better hope I don't bump into her someday. Also, Mariana, could you please check your grammar before you post. There's nothing more unprofessional than promoting a SCAM, sorry, a business idea where your grammar is that of a 5th grader.

Feel free to flame me, I don't think my name has come up in the list of, "U too thick to understand Wiseman & you're kar is deprisiating at a value x=y".

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Citizen X (19-Oct-12), Darkangelyaya (20-Nov-12)

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## SilverNodashi

Mariana you sound like Lucy / Penny Rielly, who is a scam artist.........

And, on a more serious note: If you actually want people to believe in your offerings, or services, then please take some time and design a proper website. What you have there is a disgrace to the Internet and your business.

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tec0 (22-Oct-12)

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## tec0

> Mariana you sound like Lucy / Penny Rielly, who is a scam artist.........
> 
> And, on a more serious note: If you actually want people to believe in your offerings, or services, then please take some time and design a proper website. What you have there is a disgrace to the Internet and your business.


 :Rofl:

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Citizen X (22-Oct-12)

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## Scaffold

:Lttd:

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## Mariana

I already done it Vanash, the "forum"  failed to place it on their system to you, and believe me, it was all nicely said !!! I give up mate, no wonder the world is in shambles.

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## Mariana

ITS a lie...there were no deal done, how can someone pay if there was no deal done! Use your brains, not you backside!

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## Mariana

No wonder you finances is finds it self in a dark hole!

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## tec0

> ITS a lie...there were no deal done, how can someone pay if there was no deal done! Use your brains, not you backside!





> She realised after signing the documentation that she would be in a far worse financial position if she subscribed to his scheme. She invoked the cooling off period that the NCR has mandated for loans and instructed the attorneys to cancel. Since then Mr Botha and his sidekick, Jannie, have shown up at her place of work making threats and demanding that she hand over R60 000 commission he was going to charge her.
> 
> It is clear from the documentation that I have in my possession that something is terribly wrong with this so-called concept. He encourages individuals to take out huge second mortgages on their homes to consolidate short-term debt. He then tells them to deposit the surplus funds into their current accounts.


care to explain?

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## Mariana

You must design websites then.... if you look at the numbers you will see it exceeds your best site....its only a matter of intellectual capacity!

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## Mariana

Vanash,

Lets do it again, step by step so all the dummies can come right!!!! Answer DO YOU NOW ANY CAR DEALER WHO WILL GIVE YOU A CAR FOR FREE......ANSWER..... 
I Am waiting Vanash

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## Citizen X

> care to explain?


Mariana, the problem and challenge here is simply one of credibilty! I've come to know and trust the information that Tec0 provides, acknowledging that he does so in our best interest! He has come across as far more credible than you! This is just my opinion! You not challenging his assertions in the correct manner! Bare denial is not sufficient, you need to clarify further! I think you should try in earnest to restore your credibility. You state that you have provided TFSA with a statement alternatively press release altrenatively right of reply; why not simply post that right of reply here for us all to see? We will then make up our own minds as individuals. I just think that you doing more harm to your business than good by virtue of how you respond to allegations, assertions alternatively issues in dispute...

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tec0 (23-Oct-12)

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## Scaffold

Yes, my uncle Jimmy would. He is a real nice guy.

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tec0 (23-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> Vanash,
> 
> Lets do it again, step by step so all the dummies can come right!!!! Answer DO YOU NOW ANY CAR DEALER WHO WILL GIVE YOU A CAR FOR FREE......ANSWER..... 
> I Am waiting Vanash


Mariana, I accept that you not running a charity! Like anyone else you simply want to maximise your profitability. There's nothing wrong with this. It's how you dealing with the fallout, the public relations aspect that's in issue. Might I suggest that you focus on issues which are still in dispute and further that you try and win hearts and minds.

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## KimH

> Yes, my uncle Jimmy would. He is a real nice guy.


Would that be Jimmy "fingers" from Jersey?

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## Citizen X

> You must design websites then.... if you look at the numbers you will see it exceeds your best site....its only a matter of intellectual capacity!


Mariana, you in business right? When someone gives you feedback, take that as an opportunity. Here you should have simply asked:" What practical advice do you have to improve my website? How would you have gone about the homepage side of my business? Mariana, this is what many of the mebers do right herer in real time, we in essence ask each other for feedback with a view to improving standards etc..

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## SilverNodashi

> You must design websites then.... if you look at the numbers you will see it exceeds your best site....its only a matter of intellectual capacity!


Mariana, stooping down to your level so that you can understand: Any business owner who's made a success of their business (this is a business orientated forum, by the way) through a website will tell you that your website doesn't sell anything decent. Just about any student and most kids will also tell you that your website needs a lot of attention. 

You're trying to sell a concept, or product and happened to have come across a tough community who sees through the "falsified sales pitch", but who can also give you business advice (something you lack, otherwise you wouldn't have wasted your time with a scheme which no-one else has heard of, or have approved) but instead you belittle everyone else. This also shows of your character, and I pity the fool who would even consider doing business with you on these merits.

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## tec0

Right this is where I stop. Not much more can be done on our side when it comes to investigations and the like thus I think it is time to get the right entities involved. I do know however if you borrow money at the bank they expect you to pay them back. If you do an overdraft at the bank they expect you to pay them back. Same is true with any home loan, car loan, student loan and private loan. 

Regardless of any claims made is a fact that a legally binding contract exist between the customer making the loan and bank. So anything suggesting that you break the contract “unlawfully” must be fully investigated by the entities.

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## Scaffold

> Would that be Jimmy "fingers" from Jersey?


Yes!!! Do you know my uncle? He said he makes all his money from the Wiseman Concept and thats why he can give me a car for free. Hes such a clever man.

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## KimH

> Yes!!! Do you know my uncle? He said he makes all his money from the Wiseman Concept and thats why he can give me a car for free. Hes such a clever man.


That's the same guy,... the car he gave me was a lemon by the way - ended up costing me a small fortune!

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## vieome

> That's the same guy,... the car he gave me was a lemon by the way - ended up costing me a small fortune!


 I bought a blimp from him a few years ago and it requires a special gas that I cant find anywhere, though he promised me it was available at all fuel stations.

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## Scaffold

Ya, the gas is available at all stations provided you bring the right equipment to transform the petrol to gas. He is so clever.

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## vieome

That is what the singing and dancing petrol attendant told me, but in order to get the equipment I was going to have to sign a foolishman concept contract which I declined, so at the moment I am just using a kite to fly the blimp.

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## Dave A

Time to pick the bones out of these numbers  :Devil2: 




> Ok...here comes my side of the story:
> What I am about to show you is not "Wiseman Concept" but to prove to you that "ZERO" does exist!
> This is not more than 14 year old mathematics, however the "Wiseman Concept" has been proved 5 x better than the "zero" formula!
> 
> The old system:
> PLAN A ......A husband and wife saves over 4 years R 150 000 to buy a car for their son.
> Currently awaiting the driver licence fiasco they invested the money with Allan Grey @ 10% per year ( Lets talk round figures ) earning R 1250 pm interest.
> 
> PLAN B ......A friend with very little financial sense suggest that they leave the R 150 000 in the bank and rather borrow R 150 000 @ 13.2% per year for 20 years.
> ...


So let's take a look at how Plan B works then.

Step 1:
Invest at 10% interest and use the interest to subsidise your instalments.

Step 2:
Take a 20 year bond at 13.2% and apply the extra interest to reduce the bond term. This is the result:



Out of interests sake, I looked at what would happen if we just financed this car over 6 years - and guess what:



Near as dammit the same instalment. So let's not muck around with the "extra payment = shorter term" stuff - it doesn't change how much money you have to chip in yourself, which is pretty much R1777 per month.

So at the end of 6 years on Plan B you've got a paid up car and R150 000.00 invested somewhere earning you 10% interest per annum.

*Now let's look at Plan A.*

Step 1:
Buy the car cash with your R150k savings.

Step 2:
Invest R1777 per month for a return of 10% per annum, and don't touch the interest. Guess how much you've got after 6 years:



That's right, folks - you've now got a car and R177 344.00 invested somewhere earning you 10% interest per annum.

Plan B lost you R27 344.00 compared to plan A.

*And* you probably had to pay for the Wiseman Telescopic Calculator's assistance to help you do it  :Stick Out Tongue:

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Citizen X (24-Oct-12), tec0 (24-Oct-12)

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## SilverNodashi

> Time to pick the bones out of these number 
> 
> 
> 
> So let's take a look at how Plan B works then.
> 
> Step 1:
> Invest at 10% interest and use the interest to subsidise your instalments.
> 
> ...




Dave, you're wrong. You would have been R60,000 poorer and the wiseman guys would have pocketed R60,000....

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Citizen X (24-Oct-12)

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## Dave A

Just add whatever you paid them to your losses  :Wink: 
But it's plain you're going to lose.

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## Perform Computers

This Mariana is definitely a troll. A waste of my left-click.

Imagine doing business with her. /shudder

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## Dave A

Part of the art of being a con man (or woman) is keeping your attention off the hand that is picking your pocket - whatever that might take (and being a troll is certainly a perfectly viable option).

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AndyD (25-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> Right this is where I stop. Not much more can be done on our side when it comes to investigations and the like thus I think it is time to get the right entities involved. I do know however if you borrow money at the bank they expect you to pay them back. If you do an overdraft at the bank they expect you to pay them back. Same is true with any home loan, car loan, student loan and private loan. 
> 
> Regardless of any claims made is a fact that a legally binding contract exist between the customer making the loan and bank. So anything suggesting that you break the contract “unlawfully” must be fully investigated by the entities.


I think the vast majority of TFSA members will be able to correct a little poor customer service by way of free advice, if however a scam is really involved then we not the police or the Hawks. They are the right forum if indeed it's a scam. I personally would never pay for something like that. I have been thinking about the Prof profile, I could refine it you know i.e. I will get you the lotto numbers BUT if your heart was dirty on the day you came to see me, the ancestors may decide to give you the wrong numbers in which case you can't blame me for your dirty heart..The Kings new clothes, the scam artists eventually convinced this king that he was wearing some elaborate garment when in fact he was naked!
Mariana, *you not obliged to answer the following questions.* I would personally see it as a gesture of good faith. *Other members may not necessarily come to the same conclusions:*
1. Are there any complaints against you pending with anybody such as the National Credit Regulator and/or the National Consumer Commission ?
2. Are there any criminal charges pending against you as a direct or indirect result of your business activities?
3. Are there any law suits against you in any civil court I.e. is any suing you for breach of contract and/or damages?
4. What was the outcome of any complaints against you that have already been decided upon by the aforesaid bodies in question !.

*Mariana, I conclude by saying that I’m not the judiciary nor am I the police!* I’m not on trial for murder and neither are you! I’m an ordinary member of our very own South African public! The aforesaid questions are now respectfully put to you. You do the calculation, if they go answered or met with ambiguity, the simple passage of time will be you’re your discredit! *I end by saying that if your clientele are happy with perceived benefit as opposed to real tangible benefit that they can see, feel and touch, then I guess it’s their money and between you and them!*

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## tec0

Right I think the facts are on the table and our outspoken friend will probably just ignore it and go on and on about how we cannot comprehend there special and terribly complicated system.  Ignoring the hard questions thinking that everyone else will also ignore it. 

Lest see if our outspoken friend can answer these hard questions…. Regardless people will read... they always do. So… lets see…

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## Citizen X

Tec0, you 100% exactly right! I know that this is not a particulars of claim or a declaration, I know that this is informal discourse, but when direct questions are posed to you and you simply ignore them, you blame anyone from drawing an inference that your silence is an admission. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure if Mariana is Mariana or someone else just using that name. I reiterate that if 'Marian's clientele,' are happy to pay for the service, then such clients can't complain after the fact. They should have exercised their freedom of choice as a consumer and not taken the service. So the client is also blameworthy here i.e. you want to cry after you paid for the service. No matter how bizarre a service may seem, if both parties are happy i.e. the client and supplier, then there actually shouldn't be any problem at all. The idea here is not to deliberately and with malicious intention to mislead the public. I go back to my 'Prof,' example, if I tell you I can get you the lotto numbers for a consultation fee of R500 BUT that if your heart is dirty when you come for the service, then my ancestors won't give you the correct numbers. If you understand this and still take the service then it begs a simple question: Who is really blameworthy then??? Just food for thought, I'll never unilaterally declare myself a Prof. I know that it takes alot of studying before you even reach that point!

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tec0 (25-Oct-12)

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## pieksie

:Wave: Well, it looks like Mariana disappeared! :Clap:

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## AndyD

Don't speak too soon, it's only been a couple of days, Marikana could be back any time.

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## Perform Computers

It's not 11pm yet lol

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## Scaffold

11 pm came and went. Mariana showed us all how NOT to conduct ourselves. I hope she reconsiders her approach to interacting with her fellow man and then just maybe, just maybe, this will be a better world.
Mariana, thank you for your posts. You gave us a good laugh and taught us plenty on the science of human behaviour.

Good bye poplap!!

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## adrianh

Aw, Mariana he got caughted out forra using da lady's name when da real name of da autha issa da wellem.

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tec0 (30-Oct-12)

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## Chrisjan B

LOL adrianh...

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300TG using Tapatalk 2

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## tec0

> Aw, Mariana he got caughted out forra using da lady's name when da real name of da autha issa da wellem.


Met ys ja... met ys... 

Think there will be a comeback?

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## adrianh

Nah, thessa outsjie issa now a gone-ner...

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## Darkangelyaya

Oh how fun!
Jerry Springer for non-tv licence holders...
facebook for grownups
twitter for short insults
I think we've covered them all.
My new favourite thread - who knew business could be such FUN!

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## pmbguy

Just joined yesterday and looking about the site came across your stuff. It Makes allot of sense  ...shot allot...  I just got schooled

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## SkyWalker42

I am jobless at the moment and took an interest in this. I read the entire FAQ on the "Wiseman Concept" site. Quite interesting. The guy seems very confident and states that he has never been proven wrong.  Summary of the main points according to my understanding is:

1) His claim to fame is the Wiseman calculator which basically calculates when you (or an economy) is going bust. The calculator then "back tracks" to find out what needs to be done to prevent the "crash".

2) You need to own property in order to make a loan at the bank. Or have equity. The more the better.

3) His motto is: The bank is your best friend.

4) He does charge for his services. If he saves you R 500 000, he will charge R 100 000, just an example. This is negotiable. And "No savings - No charge". Which is fair, in my opinion.

5) You can become an agent. You apparently receive R 5000 per deal.

6) His system is difficult to understand because we have been indoctrinated in the current system for a very long time.

7) He predicted the Sharemax crash when everybody else reckoned everything was fine.

8) More than 2700 people benefited from this system with 4 complaints on hellopeter, I think. 

9) He has been investigated many times and always came out on top.

10) In years to come this system will be law, as it was in ancient times.

Go read for yourselves and give feedback. I am no economist at all. 

Here is one of the FAQs.




> I understand that ABSA have investigated you and found the 'Wiseman Concept" to be 100% legal. How did it happen?
> 
>  A guy called Gideon van der Merwe was approved by ABSA bank. When he proceeds to sign with the bank attorneys a friend warned him about the 3 complaints on the Google search engine.... Gideon van der Merwe then cancelled the deal with the bank. the bank and attorney requested an investigation into the "aledged scam" as they called it.
> 
> Everybody phoned me about the investigation, I told them that iIhave been investigated 19 times already and 5 years ago by ABSA, LEGAL DEPARTMENT, HOME LOANS. SONJA DE SWARDT ATTORNEY IN JHB. In this investigation ABSA wrote a letter to the registration attorney to proceed.
> 
> It took ABSA bank 3 days to confirm to Gideon van der Merwe that he may proceed and that everything is good, and that the "Wiseman Concept" is not a scam.
> 
> Gideon van der Merwe proceeded and a R 406 000 loan was registered at zero cost to his budget. His 15 year remainder on his bond was reduced to 7 years . His two vehicle installments of R 7500 pm were eliminated to zero.
> ...

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## SkyWalker42

Forgot  the link to the FAQ:

http://www.wisemanconcept.mobi/wfaq.php

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## SkyWalker42

Another one. 
Can anyone confirm the maths ?





> Give me one example of the benefits of what the Wiseman Calculator can do for a person! ( Click )
> 
> Witbank client - Age 68
> 
> Assets :
> 
> * On paid up nursery school worth R 1 200 000 - rent income R 8000 pm minus ...land taxes of R1000 he makes R 7000 profit.                                                   * One residential house worth R 800 000 ( Bond  R320000) Installment R3500pm and rent income R4000 - Profit after municipal land tax of R500 pm = R 0.00 profit. * Another residential house worth R 600 000 ( Bond R 200 000 ) Installment ...R4000 pm and rent income R 3500 pm and after land taxes of R 500 pm R0.00 ...profit.
> 
> INCOME BEFORE WISEMAN = R 7000 pm
> ...

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## Dave A

> Another residential house worth R 600 000 ( Bond R 200 000 ) Installment ...R4000 pm and rent income R 3500 pm and after land taxes of R 500 pm R0.00 ...profit.


Well that doesn't add up for starters.

Here's the last excercise I did picking the bones out of Wiseman Concept numbers. I don't see the point of doing the excercise again for the situation you pose above when it's all to clear the numbers are BS to start with.

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## TruthSeeker

There are some interesting posts here, but all I want to know is where are the people that had lost money to this scam over the last 13 years that they have been around?  If indeed the* Wiseman Concept is a scam*, I'd like to know how they had been scammed and how much they have lost and I don't seem to find anybody online that have a direct complaint. *If the Wiseman Concept is NOT a scam*, then I'd like to extend a sincere invitation to people to just *let us know they are happy customers and since when* and - if they are willing to divulge - *how much they have been saved* through the system.  They don't have to expose anything more about their personal selves and hopefully the forum can respect them for sharing.

I want to get rid of the speculation and the personal uninformed opinions and find out if the Wiseman Concept is the world's best kept secret or just something that will die out next week.

----------

pmbguy (12-May-13)

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## TruthSeeker

Just an update for anybody looking for information on the Wiseman Concept.  I actually applied for an assessment, saw the agent and I am doing a transaction now. Will keep you posted...

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## MikeR

I cant wait for the update .

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## adrianh

Cool, please let us know how much you lose in the long term and how much they gain in the short term

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## Tato

> ... but all I want to know is where are the people that had lost money to this scam ...?  If indeed the* Wiseman Concept is a scam*, I'd like to know how they had been scammed and how much they have lost and I don't seem to find anybody online that have a direct complaint. *If the Wiseman Concept is NOT a scam*, then I'd like to extend a sincere invitation to people to just *let us know they are happy customers and since when* and - if they are willing to divulge - *how much they have been saved* through the system.  ...
> I want to get rid of the speculation and the personal uninformed opinions and find out if the Wiseman Concept is the world's best kept secret or just something that will die out next week.


I would like to "answer" above points:
1) ... where are the people that had lost money ...? You don't see them because 
        a) they probably don't know that they have "lost" money (as the Wiseman doesn't legally steal it)
        b) those who know, don't want to admit it (who likes to be a fool)
        c) the others who know are probably quite Internet illiterate

2) ... how they had been scammed ...: Well, the way I see it, they haven't been scammed. They have been lied to and they have been (over)charged for a bad advice. No literal scam!

3) ... how much they have lost ...: See points 1 & 2; As David did, to know your loss you have to calculate it. To do that, you first need to choose an alternative. Whatever alternative you choose, the "loss" will differ.

4) ... how much they have been saved through the system: There cannot be any savings for private consumption, because debit interests are always higher than credit interests. With a business loan, it would be different because you can leverage your investment and therefore profit from additional loans.

5) ... I want to get rid of the speculation and ... uninformed opinions ...: Well, I have seen enough INFORMED opinions. Speculation only came up because Mariana wouldn't/couldn't elaborate the Wiseman Concept.

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AndyD (02-Oct-13), Dave A (19-Sep-13)

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## DAVINCY

How is this possible its sounds like money saving .

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## Tato

> How is this possible its sounds like money saving .


How is what possible???
If you read through the entire thread, you'll see that you cannot save anything. But the smartest thing would be, not to waste any time on the WISEMAN CONCEPT, therefore don't read it. There are better uses for your time, even picking your nose.

Just one more thing which I find amusing:
The "author" of the Wiseman Concept writes/says, that following it leads to a win-win-win situation (maybe there was even a fourth winning party, I don't remember):
1) The consumer wins because he/she gets something, e.g. a car, for "free".
2) The car dealer wins because they sell a car (making a profit).
3) The bank wins because they earn more on more loans.
I just wonder, at the end of the day, where does the money (for the car) come from?
Maybe somebody got special connections and the Reserve Bank prints this extra money specifically for your purpose.
This, of course, would lead to
4) All the people of South Africa together would "loose" the equivalent of that money, because that extra money would lead to extra inflation.

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## AndyD

It reminds me of the old math problem where 3 guys go into a shop to buy a TV which is marked at R300.00. They each give the salesman R100 and he goes into the back room to the shop owner to get their receipt. The owner says that the TV is supposed to be on special and marked down to R250.00, he tells the salesman to refund the customer the R50 difference. The salesman sees an opportunity to get a free lunch and puts R20 in his pocket and refunds the 3 guys R10 each.

So...each guy has paid R90 which makes R270 in total, there's R20 in the dishonest salesmans pocket which makes R290....we know they walked in with R300 so where did the other R10 go?

People assume figures and mathamatics are black and white, there can only be one answer and it can always be proved but the actual numbers mean far less than the way they're presented.

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## myciti1.8i

So whats the update on here.....what happened  TruthSeeker?

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## Xplosiv

First, I'd like to thank AndyD (not!) for his signature that led me to this thread.
As for TrurhSeeker:



> I would like to "answer" above points:
> 1) ... where are the people that had lost money ...? You don't see them because 
>         a) they probably don't know that they have "lost" money (as the Wiseman doesn't legally steal it)
> b) those who know, don't want to admit it (who likes to be a fool)
>         c) the others who know are probably quite Internet illiterate


Was an amusing read though.
 :Smile:

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AndyD (24-Jan-16)

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## southcape

I am a bit slow . It took me five to ten minutes to work this out




> it can always be proved but the actual numbers mean far less than the way they're presented.


What is the answer? Work hard and buy gold?

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## Bolla

I would not say Wiseman concept is a scam but services are no good, communication is no good and behind on accounts that they should be paying, monthly income from their side, mostly late, again, no feedback whatsover. I would pass if you have no patience with non ethical ways. Lile I said, service are not up to standard, you can phone the gut, no answer, he didges your questions and give no reply at all.

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