# General Business Category > Marketing Forum >  Who links to this website.

## Dave A

I've just found a new tool. Testing....

http://www.wholinks2me.com/

EDIT: Hmmm. Not exactly accurate in all respects, but interesting enough.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Dave,

Maybe this file will help....

I ran it just now....

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## Dave A

Thanks, Riaan.

And that was generated by?

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## RKS Computer Solutions

O the wonders of SEO software  :Smile:   :Smile:   :Smile:  Honestly the best things since sliced toast in regards to onsite optimization and offsite linking strategies...

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## Dave A

And only $167!

EDIT: Now you know I should kill that affiliate link, don't you  :Big Grin: 

*SIGH* SEO, a blessing and a curse  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

BTW: Thanks for the tip about using Google Analytics - it's proving rather useful.

DBL EDIT: Hmm. And even Elite SEO has missed a few....

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## RKS Computer Solutions

I paid that $167 with a smile, 5 minutes after a friend let me into its secrets and gave me a demo from his machine running it...  Have never been too intrigued by SEO until I saw some patterns...  Right now Google/Yahoo/MSN/ASK/Jeeves the whole kaboodle of Search engines is spidering me on average every 30 minutes, and I can show you my hits purely from Search engines are making up the bulk of bandwidth costs to my sites....

(57% of all traffic in June came from Search Engines, without spending a dime)

Google Analytics is a must have, for any site, no matter what the site is about...  You will learn the ropes in time and create miracle reports that will blow you away by its shear brilliantness!

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## Chatmaster

Riaan have you tried using the Google webmaster tools? They also show you who is linking to your site, if you did, how accurate do you think it is compared to SEO Elite?

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## RKS Computer Solutions

Webmaster tools will show you the links, but won't show all of the following:  Search engine   	 Page with link   	 Page PR   	 Alexa Rank   	 IP Address   	 Has backlink   	 Page title   	 Anchor text 

The prog has Google API built in so communicates with Google directly to pull the information and from there it pulls all the other information from loads of other sources, which would take you at least an hour manually...  That page for TheForumSA took me about 40 seconds.

It also uses the following Search Engines to gather information:  Yahoo, AltaVista, AlltheWeb, MSN.

Do yourself a favour, check in the downloads directory for an ebook I uploaded about one of the other programs I use, specifically for keywords...

Your an SEO man, would you rather spend an hour digging for info for a client or have it done in a minute with all the info you're going to need?

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## Chatmaster

lol, I had to ask that question without giving my opinion.

To be honest I also use SEOElite, been using it for the past 3 years, before that I used Digitalpoint's free tool because there was no tool that had the functionality that SEO Elite has. I also tested webCEO for a while, but I did not like the reporting function nor did the link reporting go back deep enough. That depth that SEO Elite offers is what makes it extremely powerful for an SEO company. Not to mention the speed of the reports, that normally would take you weeks to prepare by hand.

I also make use of IBP for checking local rankings for my reports on Google local search. 

For people without a budget to purchase this software and are not full blown involved in SEO the Google webmaster tools are a good option though. There is also Aaron's tool for backlinks, these are not in SEO Elite's league but sure worth using if you are low on budget.

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## RKS Computer Solutions

You see, you just had to pull my soul out didn't you?  :Big Grin:

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## Snoopy_inc

I have to admit i would love to learn about SEO and optimization of websites.

If anyone has tips or tricks.  Please post them.  or maybe ref me to a site that explains how it works and how to implement.

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## Dave A

SEO can be broken down into two broad categories - on-site optimisation and off-site optimisation.

Both have fairly simple underlying principles - but a seeming infinite range of subtleties.

Basically, off-site SEO is paying attention to how other sites link to you. An example of off-site optimisation is posting a link to your website here, with anchor text that is relevant to the page you are posting the link to. This adds an external link to your site (which makes it seem just that little bit more important in the eyes of search engines), and also re-inforces the keywords that might be associated with that page. You also need to pay attention as to which sites link to you. Some can help, some can actually be harmful.

On-site optimisation is technically a much more diverse subject, but at the root it's about how easy it is for search engine robots to find and understand the content of your website. Having some sense of what these robots are actually looking at and what parts are important is critical. Also, setting up files designed to specifically help robots do their job can make a big difference.

I have to dash now, but I'll come back and add to this later. There are hosts of forums that deal with SEO specifically - and they are busy. The challenge is to seperate the noise from what is really important - and prioritising to do the important changes first that will have the most effect. The subtle stuff can come later.

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## Snoopy_inc

Thanks Dave,  appriciate the effort  :Wink:

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## Chatmaster

You are taking up a very tough subject. I frequent many forums and SEO is most probably where most of my forum visits are focused. Very few people actually understand the concept of SEO. I read posts daily on SEO forums and have had discussions with "so called" SEO gurus. Some of them are even highly respected, but actually do not grasp how it works. I remember attending an SEO course in Sandton in 2004 and ended up paining through a day where the guy who was a very good and convincing speaker ended up getting excellent reviews afterwards, but knew very little about SEO. He didn't even have a complete understanding of how a website was designed, but because he was earning a good income from his sites, he was regarded as being knowledgable...

I guess my point is that you need to be very careful where you go with this. I have been in the SEO industry a very long time and things continually changes in how SEO is done. There are no tips and tricks, except maybe understanding the full concept of Lateral Marketing, Web 2.0 and it's effects on your SEO strategies.

If you want to learn SEO, buy Aaron Wall's, SEO Book. I can recommend it as it will give you an understanding of SEO. There after you need to learn to think out of the box, get rid of your tunnel vision and start thinking for yourself. SEO only truly works for you when you integrate marketing, acquisitions, retention and recency into your design and maintenance of your websites as well as your general marketing strategies.

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## Dave A

I'm not even going to try to argue with a person who is in the SEO business. I've seen some of those debates Chatmaster refers too. I have to agree, the subtleties are... complex. And Aaron Wall's SEO Book is widely considered the place to start.

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## Chatmaster

lol, Dave!

You are spot on with regards to on and off-page factors. Your basic summary is spot on too. I just have a firm believe that someone should spent the money on Aaron Wall's book first. This would give you the basics and the background to understand the info you receive from other people and understand exactly what you hear. Reading the book would take you at most 2 days, and it is a good read. Thereafter joining a forum and asking for advice is the best way to learn.

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## Dave A

Yeah. I actually trashed a much longer post after I'd put a bit of thought into where you were coming from.

After that, even simple stuff like discussing the page title suddenly became a big subject if you are going to cover the ground from scratch.

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## Chatmaster

The big issue here is that there is over 200 factors, of which at least 25 needs to be discussed in detail, not to mention years of research, Google patents, basic HTML understanding, Basic technical knowledge about hosting, domains etc. and so much more. Then we get to copy writing and possible strategies around that... Link building strategies and differences between types of links. The point is that it will take you a very long time to explain SEO in enough detail to ensure someone understands exactly what it is and can apply it.

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## Snoopy_inc

Well.... I wouldn't mind a SEO debate here  :Wink: 

Chatmaster let me put you at a bit of ease.... im in the IT market myself.... i host clients sites have hosted my own and know about designing and html etc.  Meta tags and the likes i know what they are..... What im asking is Where does one start and how important is the web2.0

I have enough experience in this market myself. I just don't understand SEO as well as i should i suppose.

That book you were talking about... any idea where i can find it?

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## Chatmaster

Well Snoopy that is excellent news!  :Big Grin: 

Yes, www.seobook.com

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## Snoopy_inc

No real book i can get?

would you know if i can order this from Kalahari or exclusive?

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## Snoopy_inc

Just reading through his site now properly.  Can get from him.... its a hefty fee thou. 

My question is will i reuse the information it contains? or is it a once off chore and then i lean back and let it work?

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## Dave A

Given your knowledge of HTML, here's something to check out - clean code.
Test your site on the W3C Validator.

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## Snoopy_inc

Well.... currently www.wellinformed.co.za is fine..... as soon as i check the redirect thou..... /me falls over and has a heartattack.

Its using full descriptions.... BLAH.  That takes forever to do things.

O well i guess ill re alter the stuff as it get revamped :P

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## Dave A

That's only 50 errors - not too bad. And only 9 errors on the forum index page. It's worth the effort to clean that up.

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## Snoopy_inc

Ye,  Suppose.

When i do the revamp ill implement it.  I have to focus on moving servers atm.

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