# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  HOW NOT TO PAY E TOLL !!!!

## HR Solutions

Dear South African motorists and their friends, 
TOLL ROADS ARE TO BE IMPLEMENTED NATIONWIDE. Finish and klaar.
This is not just a Gauteng concern, every province is targeted for tolls.
IT SEEMS TO BE ANOTHER SCAM ON US ALL FOR THE ENRICHMENT OF A FEW. Consider.
1) To fund the road costs by way of a small addition to the fuel levy would cost absolutely nil in collection fees. Nada, zilch!
2) The proposed tolls collection costs amount to nearly 40% of what you will pay under tolling. 40% versus nothing. Where is the reasoned thinking?
NB:  3) The collection fees (R5 billion a year) goes offshore to Austria , far from the auditor generals reach and oversight powers. Petrol levies stay in S.A. and are audited.
4) R5 billion exported impoverishes us all. Our current account is already disastrous. R5 billion is the equivalent of just 20 new Zuma seraglios, but is still a lot of money.
Wayne Duvenage says we already collect R40 billion p.a. in fuel levies, much more than we need to sustain decent road structures.
Tolls are just another disguised tax like A.D.T., private schools and Discovery, paying for services which you have already paid for with your tax buck.
For-profit taxis are exempt from tolls, we producers still have to pay. Our Lords and Masters are dead scared of the taxis. So, I guess, are we all!
Daily we read of the huge financial scams being perpetrated on us by our scurvy elected Lords and Masters. Daily Huge amounts and no one is ever brought to account.
We are punch drunk and feel powerless. We know that this latest scheme is like the others. We know why they will not release the contract details, and are united in gatvolheid.
TOLL ROAD DISOBEDIENCE IS OUR CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK!  And no one gets to bleed for a change. You can simply suck it up (again) or fight back.
A very simple solution is at hand. It will cost you nothing, give you immense satisfaction and stop those scumbags who wish to accumulate huge offshore bank accounts at your expense.
DO NOT REGISTER FOR E-TOLL TAGS. REGISTERING IS NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT. IF YOU DO NOT REGISTER THEY HAVE TO SEND YOU AN ACCOUNT, 300 THOUSAND ACCOUNTS A DAY, 10 BILLION ACCOUNTS PER YEAR, 10 BILLION! Quite impossible, and the scam will collapse.

Here is what you do:
Then query your account! What fun. They will have to send you a photo of every toll you have passed through, maybe 20 billion in total. Then you can argue that it was not you but a cloned licence plate. Demand proof that you were the driver. With individual identification.
DEMAND THAT THEIR 'LETTERS OF DEMAND' ARE SENT BY REGISTERED POST. Oh! The cost, the cost, the cost!
Defend the case if you have time, but it will never reach that stage, the logistics and costs would be too overwhelming for the possible scamsters to contemplate. Insist, in writing, that the guy in charge of the camera attend the court, then pay your R15 due the day before trial.
Over 20 years there is perhaps R160 billion at stake here, many times that when every province is targeted.
R160 billion of your, my and South Africas money, possibly diverted to crooks (they will not disclose the contracts which divulge where and to whom the toll fees are to be paid, so we cannot know).
Sincerely, if you are tired of being a milk cow, tired of seeing your hard worked-for earnings being ripped off for the benefit of a few connected yobboes, tired of being scammed,
DO NOT BUY AN E-TAG, THEY CANNOT LOCK YOU UP, CANNOT BEGIN TO FIGHT US ALL, AND CANNOT HOPE TO WIN.
Remember, the more draconian they get in trying to extort money from you, the more they will lose at the polls, and losing power is something they cannot afford as it would deny them the unlimited power of plunder they now enjoy.
Please send this to as many of your contacts as possible. Let this go viral
We will win for a change, and wont that be satisfying!
Please, pass this on

We also need to stand together against Fuel Hikes, taxes, and whatever scam they come with in the future.

----------


## Miro Bagrov

I'm not paying....

----------


## pmbguy

I’m not paying either...

----------


## Blurock

E-tolls is just another example of the unholy alliance between politicians and crooks.  :Batman:

----------


## Dave S

I hear a lot of people saying "I will not pay", but words are cheap. They have already received over 600 000 e-toll applications from big companies and many are from trucking companies, it seems the "rich" that can afford these tolls are paying them, in the form of e-tags, so the less fortunate are left alone to fight the fight. I predict that the cANCer will win again because they know of the "divide and conquer" rule of war. If ALL South Africans do not stand together, we will have no chance whatsoever. 

I hereby pledge that I will not pay, and I will face whatever the consequence may be, but I have had enough of highway robbery!

----------

Miro Bagrov (29-Oct-13)

----------


## ians

I am with Dave S on this one, (except the part that he will not pay) everyone will end up paying, talk is cheap and so are email petitions, you don't see thousands of black people sending emails, they gather, dump, burn and kill, but at least they get results. If you really want to see change in this country you need to get up from your computer, media device and make it happen.

This is why we don't have a crime problem in this country yet, people are still to comfortable.

It is just a matter of time and all the roads will have E- toll, so get use to it, the longer you stall it the more you are gona pay, The court cases and equipment standing idle is costing someone a kak house full of money which is going to be recovered some how, either toll fees, additional petrol taxes, or some other form of tax.

----------


## Patk

I can't see how we can capitulate to this situation. It will just result in the powers that be implementing systems as and when they want to.
I believe that a resistance must be made to whatever level can be sustained to prevent this form of abuse.
The toll fee that is being caped at is in excess of 25% of the minimum wages of the majority of workers in this country.
Big business not standing up to this indicates that they have already made the decision to pass the costs on to users. Inflation here we come.
I think that the unions have got this one correct.
Resist wherever possible, is what I believe and would encourage others to do the same.
United we stand but divided we fall.
Pat Kelly

----------


## Justloadit

The words "I will not pay" are going to fall on deaf ears, as this becomes a civil debt, which in the end can lead to a criminal record.
The other words "
We also need to stand together against Fuel Hikes, taxes, and whatever scam they come with in the future. " are hogwash,

How you gonna stop a fuel hike? not buy fuel - BS
You not gonna pay your tax? BS you will be hunted down by SARS

Yes we can make SANRAL's life very difficult to collect the eTolls, and we must make every effort to make this so.

Many business are buying into the eTolls simply to maintain their business on going, the fact that the CEO's personally may not agree is another matter.

I have a 20 year old daughter who s is very naive and impressionable and has to travel on the highways to college, who is going to defend her if at some stage SANRAL decides that they going to have a road block and arrest all who go through, throw her in jail over night. Whilst this is unlawful and would be thrown out of court, who is going to carry the emotional scars that have been caused by the incarceration and what ever happens behind those bars?

As far as I am personally concerned, I am not going to buy an eTag and make every effort to make SANRAL's life difficult, but when it comes to my daughter's well being, that is a different story.

What is going to happen is that there is going to be a 5 to 20% increase in all goods, simply because the volume of goods transported by road are phenomenal, and business will simply add the cost to their goods prices.

The statement that the government makes that it will not affect the poor is total horse sh!t, as the food and cloths that they consume, travel by road and do not get delivered in buses and taxis.

mmm... there's a good idea, register as a taxi or a bus and then use it as a delivery vehicle... that should screw them!

----------


## Dave S

> I have a 20 year old daughter who s is very naive and impressionable and has to travel on the highways to college, who is going to defend her if at some stage SANRAL decides that they going to have a road block and arrest all who go through, throw her in jail over night. Whilst this is unlawful and would be thrown out of court, who is going to carry the emotional scars that have been caused by the incarceration and what ever happens behind those bars?


I think it is even more sinister than that, being arrested and tossed into a jail is tantamount to a death sentence, especially if you are a white South African, before the issue even gets to court you will already be as good as dead, the ANC knows this and will use it as leverage to get you to pay. We are being forced to pay by the fact that we value our families above all else. It's not going to be long before price fixing by the government, that allows individuals below a certain income to buy commodities at reduced prices, this will, no doubt, hold their majority vote.

----------


## wynn

Some techie must clone JZ's e-tag and sell it to everybody, imagine the surprise?

Seriously get a clone of some government department's tag and let them foot the bill.

----------


## Justloadit

I wonder if our finance minister, since he has been cutting all this extra wastage of money in the government circles will place in the minister's handbook, that all ministers must also pay eTolls out of their personal incomes.

----------


## HR Solutions

> I wonder if our finance minister, since he has been cutting all this extra wastage of money in the government circles will place in the minister's handbook, that all ministers must also pay eTolls out of their personal incomes.



Now when a minister travels on the roads with his blue light brigade, we the taxpayer are going to have to pay for about 10 e tag clicks every time his entourage passes under a gantry !!  So if he wants to get from the Union Building to the airport, there are about 8 gantries x 10 cars = 80 clicks just to get there (And this is just one minister) !

----------


## Rafael

E-tolls new tariffs

Sanral is effectively charging Unregistered users SIX TIMES more to drive on same Highways as eTag account holders.
Public has until 9th November to submit written comments on the proposed toll charges - send to: tariff@dot.gov.za

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/govern...might-pay.html

----------


## Blurock

> This is an article on how the e-Tolls have failed in Portugal because users are not paying. (thanks Tony De Waal) DEAD LOSS Toll revenues - Lost stability read the Power Point presentation earlier this week as Estradas de Portugal (EP) roads chief António Ramalho, disclosed how administration fees on previously unpaid motorways (SCUT) were eating into the companys already waning profits. Combined with plummeting road usage and a growing number of users failing to pay tolls, EP chairman, Ant-ónio Ramalho expressed real concern over the sustainability of the company. This position is now further exacerbated following an investment, approved last week by the cash-strapped government, to spend 111 million on urgent road upgrades and maintenance this year, up from 80 million spent in 2012. António Ramalho had already explained last month that cars travelling on SCUT motorways without an electronic tagging device cost as much to bill as the amount they pay for using the toll road. The system is unsustainable and we hope it doesnt stay the way it is. If it doesnt change, we will not have enough money to conserve, preserve and maintain a road network which is considered the fourth best amongst OECD member nations, Mr. Ramalho argued. Currently, 29 percent of all monies collected from these motorways are channelled towards administrative fees, which rose from 17 million in 2011 to 42 million last year. Mr. Ramalho, this week, meanwhile promised a stringent revision of the system, which is expected to come into force after the October municipal elections. He had earlier this year pledged to have a new system operational by April, but it seems that persistent glitches during testing have resulted in yet another postponement. Overall, revenue from SCUT motorways plummeted by 74 percent in 2012 on the previous year, EP said, and with traffic figures dropping even further in 2013, there seems to be no apparent end to the rot. The EP chief openly admitted that the expected revenue from these motorways is frankly well below those indicated by initial studies commissioned by the government. While there is little that can be done to boost revenue from these much-maligned motorways, Mr. Ramalho has announced renewed efforts to obtain money through enforced payments from motorists who use these routes without paying, many of them repeatedly so. Last year, EP failed to collect a total of 30.6 million from offending drivers. On average, 19 percent of toll-road users fail to pay for using a SCUT motorway. The chasing down of these outstanding payments has been handed over to tax officials, who could go as far as ordering police to seize transgressing drivers vehicles to secure payment of tolls, though no such action has yet been reported. Another headache for EP has been that thousands of cars have streamed onto secondary roads across the country since the introduction of tolls on SCUT motorways. The Algarve, in particular, has seen thousands more cars flood the EN125 while the A22 motorway has seen traffic more than halved. This has left the Government in a situation where not only has it to pay road operators more to maintain secondary roads (based on ballooning traffic counts) but it has also lost income from toll roads, boycotted by a combination of cash-strapped and angry motorists. Concerns are now being consistently raised as to the profitability of charging tolls on previously unpaid or so-called SCUT motorways. Revenue from tolls on SCUT motorways are paid to EP by road operators, who in turn are paid back by the state, based on traffic and monies generated on routes they are contracted to maintain. The situation is slightly different on secondary routes, but private contractors on roads such as the EN125 have benefitted from an increase in traffic as they too, are paid by the car. Based on figures from 2012, traffic on the EN125 can expect an increase of around 3,000 cars each day during the summer months. Certain stretches, such as the one between Odiáxere and Estômbar (an alternative to one of the more costlier stretches on the A22) witnessed traffic climb by an average of 5,400 vehicles a day in August. But the rising demand of the EN125 has not translated into any visible improvements. The opposite has in fact been true, with the Government cutting back 150 million euros (roughly a third) from the budget the road was allocated even prior to the introduction of tolls. In recent comments to The Portugal News, the leader of the Commission of Via do Infante (A22) road-users, João Vasconcelos, stressed that tolls dont have any future in the Algarve. The introduction of tolls in the Algarve has seen the region go back 20 years and has compounded the economic woes of its people.


So why do you keep on voting for this incompetent, corrupt government of yours? :Confused:

----------

Dave A (25-Oct-13)

----------


## HR Solutions

I just see k*k coming.....then the roads will start to fall apart because they wont be able to afford to fix them ..... then ......

----------


## IanF

I still see the ANC announcing the reduction of rates to about 10c/km basis and use this as an election tactic. 
There are still no details of when this will be implemented.

----------


## Dave A

> I still see the ANC announcing the reduction of rates to about 10c/km basis and use this as an election tactic.


I'm pretty sure the ANC is mindful that there's an election around the corner. And on track record, you're probably right - fair chance they'll come with some sort of "we've reduced the tariff" play or something similar to try to put a positive spin on the whole fiasco.

Two problems with that, of course:
1. They are the ones who introduced the e toll plan in the first place
2. We need to look beyond the introductory rate. What will the bill be down the line?

----------


## Phil Cooper

Right

Press say from what they have been able to ascertain, 150,000 have purchased tags, not 600,000. The bulk are Government departments and municipalities, etc.

As EACH gate you go under is a separate offence, it is estimated that they will have to take over 1.4m people to Court PER MONTH - at 15 minutes (minimum) PER HEARING. That is 350,000 HOURS of hearings in Court. As Courts work 6 hours per day (?) that represents 58,333 days - 159.82 years. Feasible? I do not think so.

CIVIL debt CANNOT end in a Criminal record. SANRAL is a private company, so actions are CIVIL, not Criminal.

You LEGALLY cannot be stopped by a private company for a private debt, or jailed for it. 

Someone has not thought it through.

ETolling failed in Spain and USA because 19% and 23% of people did not pay. I think it will exceed 40% here - and they have said they need 90% payment to succeed.

In their dreams!

----------

pmbguy (27-Oct-13)

----------


## Citizen X

Many have bought the e-tag, but this is no gaurantee that the e-tag itself will necessarily always work. It's a cheap device. Let's assume you buy it and it just never works, then what :Stick Out Tongue:  I'll wait for the bill though..

----------


## Hermes14

> have a 20 year old daughter who s is very naive and impressionable and has to travel on the highways to college, who is going to defend her if at some stage SANRAL decides that they going to have a road block and arrest all who go through, throw her in jail over night. Whilst this is unlawful and would be thrown out of court, who is going to carry the emotional scars that have been caused by the incarceration and what ever happens behind those bars?


Sign up with eblock watch.
http://www.eblockwatch.co.za/index.php?view=home

For a family of five members it costs about R80-00 p/month.
When you sign up you choose 5 members who you would want to contact in an emergency situation.
The way the panic button work is when you sign up they will send you a sms.
Save the number to your speed dial.
If you get into a situation where you need help just phone the number on your speed dial & it will automatically send a sms to each of those five cell phone numbers you have selected saying that you need help urgently.
Eblock watch also has an app,  if you get stopped by a corrupt policeman, you activate the app &
the conversation gets recorded on a computer. 
You must inform the police / traffic officer that this conversation is being recorded.
Eblock watch doesn't monitor these conversations but if you need it you just contact them & they will give you a copy of it.
A lot of corrupt metro & policeman have been caught this way.
Another nice thing is that eblock watch has a closed face book page, if you report someone missing, there are many people who  will start looking for that person.
The last I heard eblock watch had 85 000 members nation wide.

----------


## pmbguy

> Right
> 
> Press say from what they have been able to ascertain, 150,000 have purchased tags, not 600,000. The bulk are Government departments and municipalities, etc.
> 
> As EACH gate you go under is a separate offence, it is estimated that they will have to take over 1.4m people to Court PER MONTH - at 15 minutes (minimum) PER HEARING. That is 350,000 HOURS of hearings in Court. As Courts work 6 hours per day (?) that represents 58,333 days - 159.82 years. Feasible? I do not think so.
> 
> CIVIL debt CANNOT end in a Criminal record. SANRAL is a private company, so actions are CIVIL, not Criminal.
> 
> You LEGALLY cannot be stopped by a private company for a private debt, or jailed for it. 
> ...


I think your post is the most damming one so far against the feasibility and ultimate adoption of E-Toll. If you are right I can’t for the life of me think it’s ever going to work.

----------


## Hermes14

> it is estimated that they will have to take over 1.4m people to Court PER MONTH - at *15 minutes* (minimum) PER HEARING. That is 350,000 HOURS of hearings in Court. As Courts work 6 hours per day (?) that represents 58,333 days - 159.82 years. Feasible? I do not think so


Please show me a court that can hear a case in 15 Minutes.(Excluding cases being remanded)

----------


## Miro Bagrov

The main investor of in this project from Dubai. The money is just going overseas to pay the interest as return on investment. If the government made the mistake of "guaranteeing" the loan, that is indeed stupid.

This project is definitely a failure.

I just hope motorists think twice next time before they complain that the roads are not wide enough.

----------


## IanF

> The main investor of in this project from Dubai. The money is just going overseas to pay the interest as return on investment. If the government made the mistake of "guaranteeing" the loan, that is indeed stupid.
> 
> This project is definitely a failure.
> 
> I just hope motorists think twice next time before they complain that the roads are not wide enough.


@Miro who is this Dubai backer, I thought this was financed by bonds and the government pension fund was the main buyer of the bonds?

----------


## HR Solutions

I was under the impression that it was Austrian , but either way its out of the country !!

----------


## Dave S

> @Miro who is this Dubai backer, I thought this was financed by bonds and the government pension fund was the main buyer of the bonds?


It's a company called "Kapsch", Austrian based, but with ties in Dubai, Europe, USA. But as HR Solutions said, the money is leaving the country...

----------


## IanF

> It's a company called "Kapsch", Austrian based, but with ties in Dubai, Europe, USA. But as HR Solutions said, the money is leaving the country...


Kapsch are involved in collecting the money, but I don't think they are the majority investor in the project. Miro are they owned by a Dubai investor?
Anyway still no announcement on the start date!

----------


## golfer

Will never get an e-tag.
Its discounted rates for now with e-tag, but once we all have e-tags what then.
Keep the power in our hands
Check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hNYrcU5Hh4

----------


## Hermes14

Someone on another forum pointed out this post to me.
This is the first I have heard of this agenda 21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991xB5MRJoA#t=46



> They are building a UN directed system, to track and control (and restrict) all human activity. Money was never the issue. Tracking and control is the issue. That is why even exempt vehicles like ambulances etc MUST still have e-tags.
> 
> #etoll THIS IS WHY YOU ARE GETTING E-TOLLS GAUTENG! All other SA ICLEI cities.. You're up next!
> 
> #AGENDA21 #SMARTGRID #GDS2040 
> 
> Please watch and share the 4min video below, and READ and share this post:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ9sCsETPh4
> ...


I think this is the document they are talking about

http://sustainabledevelopment.un.org...s/Agenda21.pdf

----------


## desA

This *AN*other *C*rook mob are thick.

Instead of ploughing money into decent mass transport, they choose to squeeze the remaining transport conduits for blood. Causing inflation, resentment & adding nails to the economy's coffin.

----------


## Hermes14

> This *AN*other *C*rook mob are thick.
> 
> Instead of ploughing money into decent mass transport, they choose to squeeze the remaining transport conduits for blood. Causing inflation, resentment & adding nails to the economy's coffin.


Is it possible to train the current bus & taxi drivers to like human beings & look after the transport they are driving?

----------


## desA

> Is it possible to train the current bus & taxi drivers to like human beings & look after the transport they are driving?


Mass transit systems do not require many humans. 

*Singapore*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Ra...28Singapore%29

*Thailand*
http://www.bts.co.th/index_coverPage.html

*Malaysia* (Kuala Lumpur)
http://www.kiat.net/malaysia/KL/transit.html

----------


## Hermes14

> Mass transit systems do not require many humans. 
> 
> *Singapore*
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Ra...28Singapore%29
> 
> *Thailand*
> http://www.bts.co.th/index_coverPage.html
> 
> *Malaysia* (Kuala Lumpur)
> http://www.kiat.net/malaysia/KL/transit.html


Just have a look at how the blacks set their own trains alight these days.
If South Africa decided to upgrade their metro rail system how long do you think it would last?

----------


## desA

[at]Hermes14:
There is always a way... 

Some countries position soldiers on public assets of this nature, if under threat. They ensure that public property is protected, as well as ensuring the safety of other passengers.

SA needs a serious wake-up call, where some personal liberties may need to be sacrificed, in order to protect the greater common good. Once a culture of tolerance has been established, the authoritarian controls can be gradually relaxed. SA is not a_ normal_ society, by any means.

SA society has to get through these baby steps towards modernisation.

----------


## Miro Bagrov

> @Miro who is this Dubai backer, I thought this was financed by bonds and the government pension fund was the main buyer of the bonds?


A multi-millionare, his identity was in the news on like page 3/4 in 2008 of Pretoria Business News. That was when the project was still being planned, and it was not front page interest like today.

In those days the government was hit with complaints of traffic on the N1 to Jhb. This guy made an offer to finance the upgrade project and invest in South Africa in that way. The government never had, nor ever made, any provision to the upgrade whatsoever. So they took his offer seriously.

This investment, and it's interest due, will be sitting in the liability section of Sanral's balance sheet. As you know, Sanral has been registered in such a way, that they never have to disclose their financial position on purpose. This financial position is very, very weak. 

Along the way, the project made an offer to other investors who also bit the bullet. This was 2009 - 2010 time. I think they only accepted offers offers over 100 million to invest in the project. 

This post's author said, if you don't pay, they will go bankrupt is a very true. They are technically not liquid, because they have no income. At this stage it is just a ponzi scheme using the money of the investors to pay them back. My guess is they can only cover another two years of interest payments, because they have spent the rest of the money.

Bottom line - they really will go bankrupt if no one pays. I don't think the government can afford to bail them.
But because of the magnitude of the investment, even the government at high levels is concerned about what to do. You can imagine how it looks from their perspective - "the SA government took my money, they said they will repay me with interest, and now they must protect my investment." Can you blame them?

----------

Citizen X (03-Nov-13)

----------


## Justloadit

> Bottom line - they really will go bankrupt if no one pays. I don't think the government can afford to bail them.
> But because of the magnitude of the investment, even the government at high levels is concerned about what to do. You can imagine how it looks from their perspective - "the SA government took my money, they said they will repay me with interest, and now they must protect my investment." Can you blame them?


and how many paws were greased along the way.

There is more than enough money in the fuel levy to take care of the bill, but they insist on selecting the most expensive way to collect money to repay the loan, why should this path be insisted on, when there are other simpler more cost effective ways.

----------

Citizen X (03-Nov-13)

----------


## Didditmiself

> A multi-millionare, his identity was in the news on like page 3/4 in 2008 of Pretoria Business News. That was when the project was still being planned, and it was not front page interest like today.
> 
> In those days the government was hit with complaints of traffic on the N1 to Jhb. This guy made an offer to finance the upgrade project and invest in South Africa in that way.
> But because of the magnitude of the investment, even the government at high levels is concerned about what to do. You can imagine how it looks from their perspective - "the SA government took my money, they said they will repay me with interest, and now they must protect my investment." Can you blame them?


I (like several others on TFSA) are under the impression that the money to finance this iniquitous system was borrowed from some Government Pension Scheme - not financed by just one individual. All along, we've been led to believe that the Govt has to repay the amount to the Pension Fund in order to avoid consequences. WTF? :Confused:

----------


## IanF

Miro is this what you are referring to?



> TOLL REVENUE SCAM
> 
> SANRAL has recently become aware of a scam relating to SANRAL toll roads and toll revenue. A certain individual has allegedly informed members of the public that he was facilitating a deal in terms of which he would obtain a portion of the N1 highway in Gauteng (between Malibongwe and Beyers Naude roads) from SANRAL. Members of the public were invited to invest money with this person for an attractive return. The return on investment would be based on a percentage of the toll revenue to be collected on that specific section of the national road.
> 
> SANRAL would like to categorically state that this scheme, or any other scheme of this nature, is fraudulent and there will never be any investment opportunities with respect to toll revenue collected on the national toll road network. SANRAL is not permitted to lease its roads to third parties.
> 
> The only investment opportunity available to potential investors on SANRAL toll roads is with regard to the bonds issued by SANRAL regularly, to fund its toll road network. This is done through our broker banks, ABSA and RMB.
> 
> A criminal case has been opened in this regard with the South African Police Services. The case number is Fairlands CAS 10/3/2011.


Link to sanral site

----------


## Dave S

> and how many paws were greased along the way.
> 
> There is more than enough money in the fuel levy to take care of the bill, but they insist on selecting the most expensive way to collect money to repay the loan, why should this path be insisted on, when there are other simpler more cost effective ways.


The simpler, more cost effective ways are open to scrutiny and therefore the palms of certain individuals cannot be greased as easily, is my guess.

----------


## Miro Bagrov

> Miro is this what you are referring to?
> 
> Link to sanral site


Hi Ian. I think this was a separate incident. I remember that this guy was taking people's money 'directly', and that was the fraud.

I agree, the investment product could be a bond, treasury notes, or debenture,or shares, or loan agreement, or anything they want to use as a binding agreement. 
Even government bonds need to get their  money from somewhere. And this was not small money. 

The Pretoria News (and I don't believe that they will report without checking facts) announced the initial investor in the business report, in late 2008.

Do you think we can call Pretoria News and request they send their archived article to us? Not sure if that is something they do?

I added an analysis of their financial statements on the next reply..

----------


## Miro Bagrov

Here is the evidence:

Firstly: 
*Will SANRAL go bankrupt if no one pays?  -  Well the Auditor General THINKS SO* in 2011! 
He makes this note in the auditors report..



Next:
*Does SANRAL make use of direct foreign investment? - YES, they say so themselves.*

2008 - Sanral announces in it's reports that it has found direct foreign investment

Keep in mind that they are not required to disclose the identity of investors to who they owe money. They are only required to disclose the total amounts and the interest rates.

So from their financials, we will never know 'WHO BOUGHT THE BONDS". However, we can definitely see HOW MUCH they pay for them, and the CHANGE in total borrowings.


Let's look at the change in Long-Term Borrowings:

2008 Non-Current Liabilities
R12 568 932 000

2011 Non-Current Liabilities
 R27 871 031 000

*Increase over 3 years*
*R15 302 099 000*



R15 302 099 000 is the amount of debt they piled up over 3 short years 2008 - 2011.


They are sitting with a European Bank Loan @ 8.62% 



*If there are huge investments, how much return on investment do they have to pay? - Answer  - around 11%, according to their own financial statements.*

Here is a breakdown of the returns on investment that they have to pay (2011):





*Source:*
http://www.nra.co.za/live/content.php?Item_ID=205

(Interesting to note that the 2012 file is corrupt, and 2013 is not available. It will be interesting to see what mess has been going on in those years.)

Our government is slowly descending into Hell - Driven by deficit, debt, foreign investment and corruption.

----------

Dave A (05-Nov-13)

----------


## IanF

Hi Miro
here is a link to 2013 report 
Nice analysis did you see any mention of a profit share? At least the audit report is not qualified.

I will try and look deeper when I have some spare time.

Still no news when this will be implemented.

----------


## Dave S

> Still no news when this will be implemented.


My guess is 28th April 2014...? :Devil2:

----------


## Justloadit

Ha, just had my brother inform me of this one.

He has no choice but use the toll roads, he must travel round  and round the ring road daily while doing his consulting business, and refuses to get an etag or even pay etolls, so you can imagine, his bill is quite hefty.

Anyway while at a client, his cellphone rings, and who do you think was on the other side?
Ha you guessed it, some one from etolls collecting division, so my boet tunes them "How did you get my number? are you aware this is a private number? I did not give you authority to call this number! and please do not call me again!", and hung up.

Whooweee what lengths are they going to go to to get payment?


Hold tight, the lack of payment is beginning to strangle them.

----------

