# Archive > Open content archive > MLM Industry Forum >  FOR THOSE INVOLVED WITH AMWAY - MUST READ!

## Aussie

To Whom It May Concern,

As I understand, Amway I thriving in South Africa at the moment. Therefore, I believe the following information will be of interest to many people...

Presumably you (or someone you know) joined Amway to make money.  Yet by now you will probably realise that MLM can be exhausting and the rewards may not be permanent.  You may even be wondering if MLM will really deliver for you (after reviewing your results and those of people around you - especially your downline).

Well let me assure you that MLM works and with smarter systems and a better marketing plan, you do not have to utilise exhausting ways of operating.

I am involved in a part time multilevel franchise that can generate AUD$100,000 per year for you within the next 12 to 24 months (its been done). However, to do that you only have to work about 10 to 15 hours per week and you do not have to go out at night. 

*Attractive elements include:*
- The PV to dollar ratio is almost 1:1
- Promotions are determined by cumulative group volume (no dropping back to zero at the start of a month)
- Promotions are permanent (you never drop back once a level is achieved)
- A 20% level is achieved after only $8000 cumulative group volume with only $2000 side volume a month (and your first bonus level is 10%, achieved after a $150 purchase)
- The qualifying $2000 side volume reduces to $500 at higher levels
- 5% breakaway bonuses up to 5 levels deep (sometimes more), affinity bonuses up to 8% (to infinite depth), and up to 21% on your first level distributors
- 56 cents in the wholesale dollar is returned to distributors (including a car bonus).

I invite you to compare these particulars with your company.  I encourage you to look critically at the figures.

Numerous people from other multilevel organisations, including some senior pin levels, have seen the advantages and now make very generous incomes in an easier and more enjoyable way.

Amway (or its associated regional companies) have been publicly listed.  During that time, they were required to disclose, in their annual reports, the remuneration paid to its distributors.  I understand that the last published figure for what Amway paid to its distributor force was about 26%. There is some ambiguity about this, but my research would indicate it to be about 26% (it may be a little more or a little less).

As you would know, Amway has a 'breakaway' marketing plan.  Anyone with experience in MLM will tell you that there is relatively little money made in the pre-breakaway section of the plan (that is, up to 21%). The majority of income is made after you break-away 'directs'.  Based on the figure of 26% mentioned above, after paying the 21% (pre-breakaway), only 5% is left.

Of that five percent, 4% goes to payment on your frontline qualifying direct (if you manage to reach the appropriate side-volume to qualify - and as you know - that is difficult in itself). Amway only pays the 4% bonus on one level of breakaways. Simple arithmetic shows therefore that this leaves only 1% to pay you for all the rest of your breakaway groups. These bonuses are various but it should be noted that very few distributors ever get paid these extra bonuses - usually only those at levels well above direct.

My company pays 56% to its distributors.  After subtracting the 20% that is paid on the pre-breakaway section of the plan (the equivalent of your 21%), there is 36% left for paying you on your breakaway groups - which, as we know, is where the real money is made.

So, after paying 5% (my company pays 5%, not 4%, for breakaway groups) on the first level group, *my company has 31% (compared with your 1%) to pay for the rest of the breakaway groups. * 

My company pays 5% up to 5 levels deep (more with "compression") plus it pays an affinity bonus up to an infinite number of levels in depth.  Naturally you have to qualify appropriately for these. Moreover, in addition to the breakaway part of the marketing plan, my company has a Unilevel section to reward new distributors in the early stage.  Not surprisingly, we have increased satisfaction and an excellent retention rate.

About 30% of distributors in my company go to the executive level (that is, the breakaway level). This amazingly high percentage is accomplished because of the cumulative volumes and the fact that *you do not drop back to zero every new month.* Please don't forget that you can be paid up to unlimited depth on these high numbers of breakaway executives (including to 5 levels with leadership bonuses, compression overrides, and an infinity bonus at senior levels).  It might be worth asking how many actually reach and hold the breakaway level in your company - you might discover that as few as 0.5% (or less) of distributors go "direct" and hold that level.

I think you can clearly see the enormous difference between the two companies. If you would like more information about the differences and possibilities, please contact me. I will guarantee confidentiality and I sincerely feel that it would be worth your while.

You know better than most that sometimes, if you want to make a change in your life, then you need to make a change in your life. This could be the time.

If you are genuinely interested in really making $100,000 a year within a few years in return for 5 to 15 hours a week, I invite you to contact me for more information (confidentiality assured).  Incidentally, you would be welcome to verify these dollar figures from freely available written records of payments.

Kind Regards,

Aussie.

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## Cords

Hi Aussie,

Please send me some more information

Regards

Chris

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## Jvdwalt

Hi,
Its just funny to me that every MlM company tries to immetate Amway and the N21 system. I don't know how long or if at all you where part of our team but with the greatest respect I'd have to say you are missing the point.
if you wanna make money in the IT industry you join Microsoft and learn from Bill Gates, the best in the IT field. So...if you wanna make money in MLM you join Amway and learn from N21, the best in the MLM field.

No disrespect intended and I know MLM is not for everybody, just as the IT game isn't, but to discredit the biggest and the best in MLM you are actually discrediting MLM as a hole!

You either believe in MLM or you don't. You trying to market a different MLM system by dishing another system is confusing to me? Why?

Good luck with your choice of MLM system and I wish you every success but PLEASE get your facts straight before using Amway or N21 as an example to promote your system.

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## Aussie

hi

i am not sure how you can say that all MLM companies are immitations of Amway. perhaps you could point out how that is true, as i see no truth in that statement. 

i appreciate that you think your company is the best in the industry. most people involved with MLM think that way. in my experience, the majority have never fully analysed an any other company but the one they are with. 

my post was not written with the intention of discrediting anyone. it is a simple comparison of facts and i am just encouraging people to draw their own logical conclusions from those facts. 

however you have indicated that some of those facts are incorrect. so perhaps you can be more specific. i do not want to mislead anyone. quite the opposite. 

thanks

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## Chatmaster

Multi level marketing is one of those marketing strategies that relies strongly on the maintenance of their down lines. Although many say that the concept is flawed because at some stage the down lines will reach a point that there has to be a looser, mathematically it seems that with the increase of the world's population this seems to be impossible. 

But as I said it is the maintenance of the down lines that causes problems with MLM's. Most people have a fear of selling and MLM requires the guidance and continues assistance of the upper levels in order to help the people in the down lines to make it work for them. As far as I know Amway initiated MLM and by no means do I say that it is worthwhile to join. MLM requires a driven individual that understands sales and marketing plus a lot of hard work. This is exactly the problem with the entire concept. It gets sold to people by excellent sales man, but they have the expectancy to get rich easily and with little hard work, by simply growing their down lines. This is off course not true and at some stage the majority of the people that join these networks will be disappointed.

If you want MLM to work for you, you have to except the fact that you will have to work hard for your success and maintain your down lines with guidance and frequent assistance.

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## Dave A

I think the core of this thread lies in the issue of comparing MLM options. To this extent, it seems to me that Aussie is crediting Amway and N21 as industry benchmarks.

Having a benchmark certainly makes any serious exploration of the subject easier - but it's still extremely complex. The reward model is not the only thing one should be considering when comparing MLM options.

Chatmaster indirectly raises one of the more important considerations - a supportive upline.

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## Aussie

Chatmaster: Thanks for your useful words. You are absolutely correct that MLM relies upon helping your downline - and so it should. The way for you to make money is to help your downline make money. This is why I consider MLM to be the fairest business system available, provided that the payment plan is fair (which in most cases it isn't). As you mentioned, many people have difficulty with selling and maintaining their downlines. There is a simple reason for this - they do not have a good system to run the business. When you have a good system, fear of selling is not an issue and maintenance of downline does not take much work. I also agree that to succeed in MLM you need to have a strong desire for success and be willing to do what it takes. However you absolutely do not need to have any special knowledge or previous experience in sales and marketing (if you have a good training system provided by your upline). As well, you do not need to put in "a lot of hard work". Again, with a good marketing system you can build a successful business in your spare time. This is a fact and it has been done by many people. Having said that, MLM is a serious business which requires time and effort but it is a lot easier than working a traditional job or running a traditional business. My point: compared to the other options available e.g. full time work, starting your own business, investing etc. I believe MLM is the best and most viable option for the average person who wants to become financially free. 

Dave A: Thanks for your comments. Yes, my initial post was strictly a comparison between one of the most well known companies (which is big in South Africa) and the company I am involved with. Readers may draw their own conclusions. If they can see that they are not being fairly compensated by the company they are involved with, then I am offering an open door to those people so that they can be paid what they are worth. If they are happy in their current position then good luck to them. You are absolutely correct that the payment plan is not the only important consideration. Company, products, upline system etc are all important. The reason I chose to compare the payment plan is because there is no opinion that comes into it. It is pure facts and figures placed side by side. In the end you can have the best company, the best products, the best upline but if you are not getting paid then what is the point of putting in your time and effort.

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## Chatmaster

> When you have a good system, fear of selling is not an issue and maintenance of downline does not take much work.


About 9 or 10 years ago I was involved with a company that interviewed all the top 25 US MLM money earners. What became clear from the interviews was they worked very hard and smart to maintain their downlines.

There were two ways of making money from MLM. Hard work or what I like to call Shotgun work. The concept of Shotgun is based on the fact that a shotgun shoots out several lead pellets that spreads wide and will hopefully hit something. This concept however have several problems in that you often do not hit the quality people in your downlines that will earn you money.




> However you absolutely do not need to have any special knowledge or previous experience in sales and marketing (if you have a good training system provided by your upline).


I know what you mean with a good system but I have a major issue about the way it is being done by many in the MLM industry. Downlines start to rely so much on their uplines to close the sales that they do not always tell people what to expect when they go to meetings. The end result is many people that join at that stage just fall out later because they feel they were mislead or do not want to mislead other people to come to meetings whilst not knowing it is a Amway, Sporttron, Balltron or similar. The people that do stick mostly become feeders to the upline and rarely make any money themselves, because they have to rely on their uplines. 

With mulitiple levels this becomes a very serious issue, especially if you are a couple of levels down from the successful sales guru that the upline is so strongly relying on.

MLM is a wonderful concept and sure does work, there are several people that are proof of this, but it is definitely not for everybody.

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## Suzette

Hi

Could you please send me information on this? 

Thanks
Suzette

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## cathi1

Dear Aussie

Sounds interesting.  Could we have more details ie the name of the company.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Take care

CATHI

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## Rob Hepple

H Mr T.
         Good luck on your venture. I have been involved in MLM for 11 years. First Amway, then IFA now I'm back in Amway. Why, you may ask? When I changed to the IFA I realised that I was in an industry that I didn't really understand, so I decided to do some research and study, In depth, MLM as a whole and then different companies, marketing plans and different systems. What I discovered was that the majority of the so-called MLM's out there are nothing but "dressed" up illegal pyramid schemes. There are some good ones out there and they all take WORK. All this research pointed me back to Amway. The Amway Corporation's credibility and integrity is unsurpassed. Their commitment to research and development is also unsurpassed. Their stated goal is to become the worlds best health and wellness company. Many people express their " opinions" based on heresay. They say "i've heard" or " my uncle or brother-in-law or whoever, says". There are not many people out there who state facts. Amway, wherever they open up, negotiate with the authorities and immediately become members of the local Direct Selling Association and set up infrastructure to support their distributors and also make a commitment to the country. Amway have never trashed other MLM's or compared themselves to others. They stand on their commitments and promises unlike others who try and piggy-back on Amway's success. I cannot understand why other MLM's distributors cannot go about their business without climbing on the Amway bandwagon. They should go and build their businesses based on the merits of that company they support.
            Yes, I have checked out Success Alliance-Neways International. It's not for me thank you.

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## Dave A

Rob,

The market leaders are always going to be used as the benchmark. After all, who can market leaders benchmark against other than themselves? Get comfortable with the idea - it's a form of recognition  :Wink: 

That said, it isn't entirely true that Amway does not use comparison marketing. It's just not nearly as obvious.

I tend to agree with all your other points, though.

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## Master Jay

Hi there Aussie.

With all respect, maybe you should go and see a Amway business plan, attend a BBS, a WES and listen to CEP before you compare the systems.

Robert Kiyosaki said that Network 21 is the best system that provides you with passive income!!!

Thanx hey

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## Le Chef

Mr Aussie,

Thank you for the fairly informative post. I am fascinated by your claims and comparisons. Please be so bold as to mention your MLM by name as you've done with AMWAY. This will allow readers to do research and enquiries, and judge for themselves. It might be good for all to see which MLM you are involved in, and afford them the opportunity to do a educated comparison?

Le Chef

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## superstar

Hi Aussie,

Can you please send me more info on this opportunity.

Thanks
Perene

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## Dave A

> Please be so bold as to mention your MLM by name as you've done with AMWAY. This will allow readers to do research and enquiries, and judge for themselves.


Success alliance was introduced here.

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## MikeC

I joined an IBO in Amway 10 years ago and found that there was not much experience around at that time.  Many people that were unfocussed (As I was) were unsuccesful in the business.  I joined up with another IBO recently and found that this time around there was some good leadership in place.  I have not had much experience of other MLM's but I find that the people involved with N21 are a very positive group of people with some excellent leadership as well as people skills.  I believe that if you join a network marketing company you need to ensure that you are joining a good "leader" and a fast growing group.  You need to be able to relate to the people that you are joining.  You also need to join a company that has the right sort of ethics and has been around for a long time.  There is a common misconception in that you are joining Amway.  This is not true as you are joining an existing team of people associated to Amway.  I have found that in the last few months we have been able to grow a profitable business through the N21 system.  My people skills and leadership skills have grown dramatically.  This would not have happened in my conventional business unless I had attend many seminars which would probably have cost thousands.  I am with a fantastic group of people and beleiev that it is the best decision I have ever made.

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## harvey999

> To Whom It May Concern,
> 
> As I understand, Amway I thriving in South Africa at the moment. Therefore, I believe the following information will be of interest to many people...
> 
> Presumably you (or someone you know) joined Amway to make money.  Yet by now you will probably realise that MLM can be exhausting and the rewards may not be permanent.  You may even be wondering if MLM will really deliver for you (after reviewing your results and those of people around you - especially your downline).
> 
> Well let me assure you that MLM works and with smarter systems and a better marketing plan, you do not have to utilise exhausting ways of operating.
> 
> I am involved in a part time multilevel franchise that can generate AUD$100,000 per year for you within the next 12 to 24 months (its been done). However, to do that you only have to work about 10 to 15 hours per week and you do not have to go out at night. 
> ...


and become one of your "downliners"? ha ha!

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## Rob Hepple

So many new MLM's come and go. They all promise the best payment plans.  Some stick around for a few years and then slowly fade into obscurity. Most just disappear. The magic in building the Amway business is not Amway the company or Amway the products. Those are great ,as they've proved over the last 51years. Quality always wins, hands down. The magic is Network 21. As with any business, you need to be educated on how to build a solid, ever lasting network. A number of years ago N21 was voted by Harvard business school as the best adult business education system. N21 is also the best business mentorship program around. That's my opinion and I challenge anyone to prove it wrong.

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## Dave A

I think the problem is most new MLM schemes don't survive the die-back once the "new" factor has worn off.  

For whatever reason, people seem to chase the "new thing." And I've seen more than enough launches where that's the only message - *We're the new thing*.

Trouble is it doesn't duplicate well after a while.

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Rob Hepple (10-Dec-10)

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## ABCAB

When it comes to MLM's you really want a company that has been around the block. I think 50 years in the business takes Amway out of the fly be night category. Along with NW21 it has become the company that has produced the most millionaires world wide.

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## Keen Observer

Hi Aussie please send me more info.
Thanks

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## Dave A

Last I heard Aussie was out of this business he was promoting. I doubt any information will be forthcoming.

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## MLMindustryleader

Aussie, you must be fairly new to the industry. Pay plan comparisons are a total waste of time as you are assuming that all things are equal, i.e., that your product would sell as easily as others, in the same time span, in the same volumes, etc. Second, you can make numbers and percentages do anything you want to on a piece of paper! It's been said numbers and percentages are like hookers-once you get them down you can do anything you want with them. Finally, over the last 10 years the majority of companies that have had the greatest growth, the most success, and where the biggest incomes have been earned, those companies have 3 common denominators-they are health and wellness companies, they have a limited number of products, and they have a binary plan with matching bonuses. If you were looking to increase your chances for success and maximize your income earning potential, you would look for a company that has those 3 characteristics and which is at least 3-5 years as 99% of ALL new MLM companies will fail in the first 2-3 years. Historically, companies with binary plans have experienced the greatest growth and created the biggest checks in the shortest period of time. In addition, binary plans generally pay out more money to the field as they have a "fixed payout," typically 50%, whereas unilevel and stairstep breakaway plans, which are theoretical payouts with some claiming to pay out 55-60-70%, actually pay out from the low 30% range in the case of Amway to the high 30 and low 40% range as a result of "breakage" which is due to the fact that 98% of the people don't meet the qualifications to earn maximum income. Finally, the pay plan is not the deciding factor in whether to take advantage of a particular opportunity. There are far more important variables to look at-the pay plan, the products, and the company in fact are secondary factors, not primary factors in the decision making process. 

Regarding Amway, which is the second largest direct selling/network marketing company in the world (Avon is #1), several comments: First, they were not the first direct selling/network marketing company. Second, Amway's pay plan has one of the lowest payouts in the MLM industry (32% which was stated on their corporate site the last time I looked) so the comment made by jvdwalt that if you want to make money, join Amway is hilarious in lieu of the facts.

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## Dave A

> In addition, binary plans generally pay out more money to the field as they have a "fixed payout," typically 50%, whereas unilevel and stairstep breakaway plans, which are theoretical payouts with some claiming to pay out 55-60-70%, actually pay out from the low 30% range in the case of Amway to the high 30 and low 40% range as a result of "breakage" which is due to the fact that 98% of the people don't meet the qualifications to earn maximum income.


Hold on a moment. Surely binaries have an even higher probability of "breakage" and less-than-theoretical-maximum payout than a gross volume breakaway plan like Amway's?

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## Scripto

Hi Aussie, 
Googling the company after just attending a 1st presentation,  had me sign up here when reading your post. Since it's 5 years back, I hope you're still linked & can respond with any updates on your vast analysis given at that time.Being a complete novice but with a general understanding of accounting principles using %'s yet slightly confused with terms such as 'breakaway & affinity bonuses', 'side volumes' & some general jargon, would appreciate some simplicity if possible. 
And is there any change with your assessment on the MLM company, over the past years now? I'm expected to goto my 1st BBS (product description) meeting tonight and signup for a number if satisfied.  Thanks for a great breakdown.

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