# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  How to get Wiremans License?

## chee_dee

Hi Guys, me new here, first post.

(1)I am a qualified Millwright and need to get my wiremans license.

How do I go about doing that?

(2)Also, how do I go about getting registered with the ECB as a Electrical contractor?

Sweet and short.

Thanks.

ps. I stay in the Western Cape

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Karina (24-Jun-09)

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## Gei

Hello i am also busy getting mine, I am under the impression that all i need is trade test, N4 and have passed installation rules paper 1 and 2. Hope it has not changed!

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## Alan

> I am under the impression that all i need is trade test, N4 and have passed installation rules paper 1 and 2


.
As far as i know that is still the route, Chee dee you will have to do a course at one of the technical colledges and write the installation exam 1 and 2.

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Dave A (27-Jul-09)

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## murdock

its not that simple...its not a wiremans license anymore.

you can become:

a single phase tester
3 phase installation tester
or a master electrician 

there are various requirements for each different catergory.

i would contact the local ECA in your area and find out the correct requirements

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## Dave A

> i would contact the local ECA in your area and find out the correct requirements


Or go to MERSETA who will tell you something completely different  :Hmmm:

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## Gei

if anyone has recently written installations rules paper 1 or 2 can they answer me why the hell is there written compulsory next to some of the questions???

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## skatingsparks

To reduce the chance of improving 2% pass rate country wide on this INSANELY hard exam?

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## Dave A

Not having written this paper...

Some exam papers are structured with a certain number of compulsory questions, and then a section where you have to answer (as example) 3 out of 5 questions where you can pick which ones you want to answer. Would that make sense here?

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## murdock

when i wrote the first exam for installations rules...there where 2 papers one on day 1 then the second on day 2...you had to pass both exams with more than 50 % for each


just when i thought there was no need to study any more they came out with the master electrician requirements...if you think it was difficult to become an installation electrician...wait till you decide to become a master electrician...there are 15 books....2 days of exams which you have to pass both with more than 50% and you have to have ntc6 as a minimum requirement with years of experience to consider the application.

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## Gei

i had two question papers, each a week apart, I am stuck in a town called umtata, so there is no classes and no people to ask for help, so i phoned college in pe and the lecturer there said it might be a typo cause there is no optional questions, all of them has to be done..... oh well next block i try again and again and eventually i shall succeed. Thanks for a kick ass  forum, kinda cool to know i can come here to ask questions and get a honest reply!!

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## murdock

i was in umtata a couple of months ago...we went down to inspect and test the new clinics operating theatres.

between changing the formats and sabs codes it must be quite a challenge getting any sort of qualifictions now days...i wish you luck.

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## JustJohann

I got a list of so called requirments from the departmenr of labour about 2 yers ago when i tried to apply. You need for a 3 phase installation tester: n3 ( i got n4) trade test (done) instaltion rules papers 1 and 2 ( got it like 4 years ago) and you need to have worked as a trade tested electricain for atleast 2 years ( almost 5 years) and then you need a nqf level 4 course called test and inspect industrial/comercial instalation.Good luck in trying to obtain that as i have been trying for the last 2 years either they dont know of it or they are stil implementing it. I now have a contact number of someone in the eca who deals with this isues and wil post as soon as i have more info.

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Dave A (11-Aug-09)

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## skatingsparks

Hello there

Right, so have passed Installation Rules papers 1 and 2 (just).  I have UK Qualifications and am still(one year and 2 months down the line) trying to get SAQA to give me something higher than an N3.  Now the one piece of information I managed to get from the ECA is that if you have an N4 you don't need to do a trade test(booked in for trade test, they tell me some time around September 2010).  Can someone confirm this for me as I don't have much faith in one certain person who I have to deal with at the ECA(all he says is "wait....." and more is concerned that I spread the word to the UK that South Africans eat pup and gravy).  I'm, after a 10 months here working a crap job for 20 weeks of those 10 month, having to go back to the UK for 4 months to get more qualifications, coming back again and being to told to "wait", am keen to get going now.

So SAQA should come back with at least an N4, I believe this to be the case because:- 

1. They asked for one level 3 qualification and I have now bought them 4
2. Because there are no more electrician quailfications (electrician wise) to get in the UK apart from Portable Appliance Testing which would be as worthless here as it is in the UK(sorry to offend if you worked to get this but it doesn't seem to be required here)

So I "should" have an N4 and I have passed the Installation rules.

I asked about the single phase tester course and the 3 phase tester course but was told to "wait".  Wait for what I don't know. :Confused: 

So do I need to do the single phase tester course and 3 phase tester course.

Done plenty of testing, just passed the UK Testing exam and used to work at Megger (World leading test instrument manufacturer).  Signed off 100's UK's version of the COC for everything from houses, papermills, bars, office buildings, factories blah blah blah.....

So what next? Who do I go to?   Where can I do the testing course(if I need to).  The only place I found was P and T technology and its expensive (6000 or so).

Any ideas because, call me a git, I kind of feel I have made the effort now.  I am here on a skills quota visa and just want to do the work I have been doing for the last 10 years over here.  

Alternatively anyone need an electrician(UK trained) in Jo Burg?

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## skatingsparks

Just found this (by accident)

Has lots of answers

http://www.ecbsa.co.za/EIR2009.pdf

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## JustJohann

Requirements to register as a Instalation (Electrician3 phase installation tester):

N3 electrical (4 subjects)
Trade test sertificate (electrician,millwright)
2 papers on sans 10142-1
2 unit standards on testing and coc for three phase instalations.(The 2 unit standards i am attending next week for 2 weeks at a place called EE services in Bloemfontein tel 0514512251. I got the name and number from a lady in the ecb offices in bloemfontein)

Then you need to go to department of labour and get a registration form wich also tells you what you need. It is the above mention plus proof that you worked atleast 2 years in the trade as a quailified electrician,2 id photo's one of wich must be sertified and R120 in revenue stamps (post office).Send Cerified copies of all qualifications,proof of employment and id to the department of labour and then sit back and wait for it.It takes plus minus two weeks

There is also one for singel phase tester to me a useless one as you can only do house and have to have almost the same stuff as the one above. Master comes after the one i mentioned and is for hospitals,explosives areas and such. If you want more info leave me a message. 

Only after you got your wiremans license can you apply with the eca/ecb wich is simple compared to the process of getting the wiremans

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Dave A (26-Nov-09)

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## Jacques#1

> Requirements to register as a Instalation (Electrician3 phase installation tester):
> 
> N3 electrical (4 subjects)
> Trade test sertificate (electrician,millwright)
> 2 papers on sans 10142-1
> 2 unit standards on testing and coc for three phase instalations.(The 2 unit standards i am attending next week for 2 weeks at a place called EE services in Bloemfontein tel 0514512251. I got the name and number from a lady in the ecb offices in bloemfontein)
> 
> Then you need to go to department of labour and get a registration form wich also tells you what you need. It is the above mention plus proof that you worked atleast 2 years in the trade as a quailified electrician,2 id photo's one of wich must be sertified and R120 in revenue stamps (post office).Send Cerified copies of all qualifications,proof of employment and id to the department of labour and then sit back and wait for it.It takes plus minus two weeks
> 
> ...


The official DOL brochure for a registered person.  Copy and paste the link below.

http://www.uif.gov.za/downloads/docu...%20persons.doc

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## skatingsparks

> Requirements to register as a Instalation (Electrician3 phase installation tester):
> 
> 
> 
> Only after you got your wiremans license can you apply with the eca/ecb wich is simple compared to the process of getting the wiremans


I would consider juggling with with flaming cars whilst standing on one leg simple compared to getting a wiremans!!!

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## skatingsparks

> Requirements to register as a Instalation (Electrician3 phase installation tester):
> 
>  and R120 in revenue stamps (post office).


There is some confusion over Revenue stamps as well, they don't exists anymore apparently.  They stopped them on the 1st of November.  I phoned DOL and asked how to make the payment and got and "eish! I don't know yet"

They may have sorted it now.  Just thought you should know before going to the post office and and you get another hurdle to jump.

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## JustJohann

Lucky dol stil got my forms and info from about 2 and half years ago all they need is the unit standards and 3 weeks then i have it :P.

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## JustJohann

Update: You need 5 years experience instead of 2 now. The course is about 6000 rand but easy and worthwhile. You fisicaly do 5 coc's with the instructor and the rest of the class write one exam with a pass mark of 70% and then one final coc which you do on your own. This gives you 15 points for your unit standards. The coarse the eca gives is only one point and does not count for much.

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## Sparks

go to http://www.ecbsa.co.za/ then look under: Department of labour: Registration Requirements. Look at all 3 listings.

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## bengli00

But the Ark never sinked and the Titanic did!!!!!!!!

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## I need help

> There is some confusion over Revenue stamps as well, they don't exists anymore apparently.  They stopped them on the 1st of November.  I phoned DOL and asked how to make the payment and got and "eish! I don't know yet"
> 
> They may have sorted it now.  Just thought you should know before going to the post office and and you get another hurdle to jump.


I am at this stage,and cannot get further!!!!
I have spoken to many people at the dol and have had many 'EISHES"

No revenue stamps any more ,so how?, :Confused:  and to whom do I submit payment to??

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## skatingsparks

hey there "I need help"

Phone a nice lady called lesidi on 012 309 4378.  She works at the DOL at Pretoria.  She will give you bank details to make the payment at an FNB bank and what you have to put as reference.  You then take this proof of paymnet with all your papers to DOL in Pretoria (or you can send them but I don't trust the postal system with important stuff like this.)

Be aware, and I'm not exaggerating here, I called Lesedi 128 times between Monday and Friday last week and got through TWICE!!!!  If you have a problem don't let her take your number and they will get back to you, because they won't.  If you get through make sure you resolve the problem there and then.  There is another number for a guy called Peter who I think is the "Chief Inspector" who decides.  If you have no joy with Lesedi I'll find Peters number for you, its currently buried in my car/company skip. 

Skatingsparks

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## JustJohann

Almost 5 years and close to 10000 rand and i got it  :Stick Out Tongue: . I also had the problem with the engaged or not answering phone line but kept on phoning.

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## Dave A

Well done, Johann  :Thumbup:

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## skatingsparks

Ok
So i phone the department of labor 500 times between Monday of one week and the Friday of the following week and got through 5 times.  "Yes its been processed" they said, spoke to the top man, "Yes its been signed off".  Good i think because if I don't have it by Friday I lose my job, condition of employment, must have License within 3 months of starting.  Have been jumping through hoops for over 2 years now.  This Friday will be over 8 weeks after I handed everything in and I will be putting the number of the DOL including mobile numbers of the people who decide on my face book page where A LOT of people have agreed to phone them at random times until my papers come through.  Fed up of phoning and waiting now.  Lets see how they like it having a phone in your hand all day for days on end. After that going to the press.  GIVE ME MY LICENSE!!!

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## Jacques#1

> Ok
> So i phone the department of labor 500 times between Monday of one week and the Friday of the following week and got through 5 times.  "Yes its been processed" they said, spoke to the top man, "Yes its been signed off".  Good i think because if I don't have it by Friday I lose my job, condition of employment, must have License within 3 months of starting.  Have been jumping through hoops for over 2 years now.  This Friday will be over 8 weeks after I handed everything in and I will be putting the number of the DOL including mobile numbers of the people who decide on my face book page where A LOT of people have agreed to phone them at random times until my papers come through.  Fed up of phoning and waiting now.  Lets see how they like it having a phone in your hand all day for days on end. After that going to the press.  GIVE ME MY LICENSE!!!


2 months is about right, give it a few more days.  I waited 2 months and I think 8 days for the SA Postal service, they posted my licence to me.

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## skatingsparks

GOT IT!!!!!! OOOOOOWwwwwwwweeeeeeee!!!!!

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## Dave A

After that much persistence, you deserve it  :Thumbup: 

Now make it worth it  :Wink:

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## Sparks

Congratulations, maybe there is hope for SA after all

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## I need help

Well done, Mine has been submitted ,thanks for your assistance !

Patience from here onwards by the looks of things.

Congrats that you are eventually licensed.

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## Tian van der Walt

> its not that simple...its not a wiremans license anymore.
> 
> you can become:
> 
> a single phase tester
> 3 phase installation tester
> or a master electrician 
> 
> there are various requirements for each different catergory.
> ...


what is the requirements to become a master electrician

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## Jacques#1

its in these threads, and there are mail links, just read on and follow the links to the DOL.

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## Ray12

Hi. i'm now trying to do my wireman's licence, and there are 2 papers, does anybody know until where you study for th first paper, and what is the contents of te 2nd paper? also- does anybody know where i could find old exam papers?? please help!!

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## Sparks

I did mine so long ago that I do not recall if it was 1 or 10 papers. What I do know is that you must know everything to be able to do your job correctly. Forget about the minimum requirements to pass. People will be trusting you with their lives. Learn everything with the aim of getting 100%. It has been years now but I still regularly go over my books to keep me on my toes. Do not underestimate the value of the SANS10142 CD which you can buy online, it is cheaper than your local SABS offices. When you register it you can also apply for online notification and subscribe to the ammendments and updates. All the best with your studies.

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## Ray12

Thanks so much, i'm a bit stressed, coz i hear the pass rate is ridiculously low- but i'm studying hard and i'll do my best

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## Sparks

There is no need to stress. That could cause a careless mistake. All you need to do is remember the basics(ohms law etc.) and the rest is logical if you consider the question carefully. If you have a decent journeyman you must pepper him with questions and remember his answers. Make sure you know SANS 10142. Most of it is logical but you must learn the specs. Most of them you should know by now from using them. In the field not much effort is taken to explain to the appie why what is being done. If you want to ensure that you pass, go out of your way to ask questions and if you doubt the answer, look it up or work it out then have someone else check it for you. Remember 40% result means you do not know 60%. I am sure you would not like having a guy work on your car if he does not know more than half of what is going on. Somewhat different though, because you will have the lives of all your clients in your hands. At the end of the day it is worth it though because when you go to bed you know that you have ensured that your installation has saved someone's life because it is as per code. Good luck!
Have faith in the Lord and next time I reply to you will hopefully be to say congratulations.

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## JustJohann

I can add only one thing and that is try try and try again. It took me a total of almost 9 years to get my wiremans complete but i never gave up.

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## Sparks

Good for you. A pity more people don't follow your example and stick to it. Too many are too lazy and rather go illegit. If you keep trying you must get there. A task is only as difficult as the first step.

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## SilverNodashi

ok, here's a slightly different question. I have electrical (Technies Elektries in Afrikaans) & electronics (Technika in Afrikaans) in Technical Highschool but never went to study either of them after school. From what I understand, I got an N3 in Matric.


Nowdays I do a lot of odd electrical work myself, around the house / parent's houses / on the farm etc. Nothing serious though and nothing that requires anything more than a cheap'ish multimeter. 

How, and where, would I start if I wanted to get a wireman's license. I seriously doubt I'll ever use it in a business sense, but more a matter of if I need todo some more major work, I'll know it's legal.

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## Jacques#1

Ok, you can become a single phase tester, but for that you would need experience, which as you explain you are not in the business of, so that may be difficult.  

Easiest answer:  All electricians is "Supposed" to work according to SANS 10142, if it is for yourself, than buy the SANS book, or buy the downloadable book, and work according to that.  If an electrician wires a premises, or whatever the case may be, he does it according to the "electricians bible".....SANS 10142.  If you have a buddy who is an electrician, double check with him what you are installing and how, he'll give you the right answers.  If you don';t have one, post your installation on the forum, I'm sure there are a few guys who will spec it for you quickly, including myself.

However take heed, in theory you are not supposed to do any electrical work without the general supervision of a qualified electrician, so for all purposes of what I have written above....I am under the influence of alcahol and nothing can be allowed in court  :Stick Out Tongue: .

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## 123

Actually you can get a master electrician license (DOL Registration Card) for R2500.00
Installation Electrician License(DOL Registration Card) for R1800.00
Single Phase tester (DOL Registration Card) is for free.

Just pm me for details  :Big Grin: 

ps. I cannot reveal my sources.

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## Jacques#1

That sounds great.......except, I've been involved in two cases so far that I was requested to do a COC after one has been issued by another electrician.  In both cases I was unaware that there has been a test conducted.  In both cases the previous electrician was in and out in 20 minutes, did not even open a single box, and......in both cases the laywers persuing electricians, after I gave the owners a list of faults (all genuine faults)......If I knew I was going to get into the middle of this, I would like I have done for some clients, apologised and said I cannot do the Certificate.

I also did a house 2 weeks ago, where there are a list of faults, took me 8 hours to test the entire house.  Serious things like the DB about 50cm above the basin in the kitchen......I did this for the managing agent.  The previous owner refuses my bill, and got his own electricians in.  Once again 20 minutes later they left.  Now the new owner says that he is going to persue as he does not want a dangerous house, and guess what, I am stuck in the middle again.  Luckily I listed every clause in the SANS book next to each fault, so there is no arguiing later on.

Point is, people are getting fed up with these guys who lie and cheat, and taking legal action against them.  Seeing what I have, I would not want to touch a bought licence, it's gonna get you into trouble eventually.  Besides, I am talking about residential applications, imagine you use the Masters licence and sign off a hazardous installation, next thing something goes wrong.....these guys don't fool around, theres no...."you can't prove it was me...", they use forensic experts, commision investigation teams and before you know it you are attacked by 20 corporate laywers with unlimited funds.......

Not for me thanks.......

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## Sparks

Good for you, we need a few more with a conscience and pride in the industry.

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## mikilianis

These fly by night "electricians should be exposed for who and what they are Frauds, Crooks no one ore organisation is going to name and shame them maybe we should start something get something off the ground I mean ten to one they are probably dont know what they are doing. :Mad:

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## JustJohann

i suggest we get the admins to ban Mr 123 becuase what he is trying to do is commit fraud.

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## AndyD

> i suggest we get the admins to ban Mr 123 becuase what he is trying to do is commit fraud.






> Actually you can get a master electrician license (DOL Registration Card) for R2500.00


I think he's joking, you can get this for way under a grand if you shop around. :Big Grin:

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## Jacques#1

Seriously guys, if you look at the card, it's got no hidden "thumb" prints, you can make it in 10 minutes if you've got some plastic, yellow paper, a computer, laminator, a photo and a computer  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## 123

> I think he's joking, you can get this for way under a grand if you shop around.


 :Big Grin: 

he he. Aint that the truth. And it sooo easy to duplicate the reg. card, and even the ecb card (red yellow and blue) on a good printer, like Jacques said.

The thing is, you actually *can* bribe someone to enter your details on the database and then you are legal! To be frank, the dol lost a lot of data/backup/paperwork since 1994, and that is a fact. A friend of mine, wrote his exams in 1986, registered for a year as an IE, then decided on a different career. When he tried to register last year at the ecb, they informed him his yellow card is not valid! The DOL confirmed this. After a short court case held in Germiston the dol reinstated his IE status, with costs.


Mr JJ, please note the smiley insert at my post, it was a cheap shot at how easily you can get a reg. card. :Wink:

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Dave A (02-Aug-10)

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## 123

apologies... that was a cheap shot at our super efficient dol... :Big Grin: 




> That sounds great.......except, I've been involved in two cases so far that I was requested to do a COC after one has been issued by another electrician. In both cases I was unaware that there has been a test conducted. In both cases the previous electrician was in and out in 20 minutes, did not even open a single box, and......in both cases the laywers persuing electricians, after I gave the owners a list of faults (all genuine faults.
> 
> ... Luckily I listed every clause in the SANS book next to each fault, so there is no arguiing later on.
> 
> ... they use forensic experts, commision investigation teams and before you know it you are attacked by 20 corporate laywers with unlimited funds.......
> 
> Not for me thanks.......


I humbly ask for another perspective on this:  :Stick Out Tongue:  And this is an issue which surfaces at each and every _DOL Dispute Evaluation_ we conduct: The CoC which was issued: Was it for an "existing installation" or an "existing with alterations" or a "new installation" ?

And please do bear with me, so far we have a premilary verdict/conclusion (with an expensive written report from a very expensive advocate), that it _does_ matter (See EIR 2009 subclause 9.2 b and c).

We have, successfully, submitted Official Disputes at the DOL (Based on GEIA Inspection reports), where installations were incorrectly evaluated as "new" and/or "new with effected alterations", where, in fact, they were "existing installations" which can only be, by law, evaluated under clause 9.2 (b): Existing Installations. (Even the_ 20 corparate lawyers_ can only act within the framework of the promulgated regulations. :Helpsmilie: )

So what I am really asking is this, the _"listed every clause"_, was it done in accordance to eir2009 9.2 (b)? Which states, for an existing installation, clause/chapter 5 only of sans 10142 (bible)? Because if clauses outside the scope of clause 5 were quoted (for an existing installation), then it could be very misleading to the consumer, who has to foot the bill. Not to mention outside the scope of the law, which has more serious complications.

And this is where the Consumers Protection Act comes in. The consumer is protected, by law, in situations like this, where they are, for one, knowingly, and purposely, being misled by certain entities, who tries to twist and turn the law in order to make "legal" money out of an already financially drowning consumer.

Anyway, it is just a thought. If I am out of line I sincerely apologise. :Stick Out Tongue: 

ps. our _official website_ will be publised widely (no, not eric, no, not ecb, no, not aia, no, not eia or aie or eab or arab emirates, or eca) asap as soon as all legalities are finalised.

_ps. the size of the balls are limited by law. EOS._

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## Jacques#1

The house was built in unknown, so assume post 1992.  Also, they renovated extensively throughout the house, and determining pre/post is impossible.  Finally, this was for a transfer of sale, no contractors was on site to confirm/dispute timelines, so post 100% SANS law compliance was assumed.

In addition to this, the faults I found doing an extensive "no halve arsed excuse for a test" COC was a voltage on light switch covers (leakage from some source....which my fluke 1653 picks up), looping boxes used outside with an attempt to make them IP65 with silicone, an Earth leakage tripping at 9mA etc.

If I say a house is safe, its safe, yes I may have missed something, but I got 99.999999% of the rest.  

If someone wants to complain about an overcharge vs. another because another guy hid behind 1001 laws and plainly just didn't do his job which he was trained to do, only to make a quick buck, then let them.  I will sleep well tonight because I know my clients are safe  :Wink: .

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## Sparks

That is exactly what the client wants and expects to get. Good for you. As for the age, when doing a COC for a transfer, I will indicate if the "original" installation is pre 1992 but under the description I will say the COC covers the entire existing installation, as indicated in section 3. I am certifying an existing installation. When I personally alter an installation I will make such a comment but then the details are under the heading "New/Altered/Temporary installation.

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## DavidP

> i had two question papers, each a week apart, I am stuck in a town called umtata, so there is no classes and no people to ask for help, so i phoned college in pe and the lecturer there said it might be a typo cause there is no optional questions, all of them has to be done..... oh well next block i try again and again and eventually i shall succeed. Thanks for a kick ass  forum, kinda cool to know i can come here to ask questions and get a honest reply!!


Hi Gei, i'm looking to do my Wiremans License, do you have some Exam Papers i could go through and get an Idea on the type of questions..?

thanks
DAvidP

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## willievdmerwe1

wrote the past exam for july, dam hard.

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## Maccie

Hi all.

I am in the process of looking to do my wiremans, the only problem is that I live far from any FET college, and travel a lot for work.

I have the registration papers from technisa to do the course via correspondance.

Has anyone else done this course through them?

Do they provide enough study material, examples, old test papers etc etc.

I started with my wiremans a long time ago (7 years) and bailed out halfway, I am concerned that it will be much more difficult to pass doing it correspondance, and it is already a difficult subject.

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## Jacques#1

Dont know if the same rules still apply, but you can enrol at any college, and simply go write the exam.  You have to get more than 50% pass on both papers.

Most electricians doing the course never actually attend.  I remember that I was doing standby and working on breakdowns up to 10pm most nights, and did not get the oppertunity to attend a single class.

Attending does help (did attend a few classes the third time I wrote  :Stick Out Tongue: )  but you basically need to know the SANS 10142 book backwards, and you will pass.

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## Maccie

When I forst did the course, I did it night classes, I had the same problem with shift work interfering, in those days you had to have a minimum attendance to classes to be able to write the exam.

Has it changed now?

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## mikilianis

I wrote the exam in 94 and back then it was difficult I did attend night lectures at a technical college and found that it did help me in the preperation for the exam it is not an easy subject and one has to know the code virtually by heart.I say start slowly and methodically get to know the definitions that was worth 30% in the first paper then get to know sections 6 and 7 once you understand those you could work on the calculations volt drop,cable selection,estimation of loads,etc. Basically the first paper is covered in section 6 and the second by section 7 get to know those sections and you should be on your way to passing

Hou Die Blink Kant bo
Mike

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## willievdmerwe1

you can write your exam on installation rules(new word for wiremans) without N3 and become a Single Phase installer, with N3 you can become a 3 phase installer, to become master you need N6 with 5 years post trade experienc.

writing exam can only be done at selected locations, but I would sugest to get the right info is to contact your nearest ECB

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## harveya

Hi to all on this forum! I am also new to the site, having been directed here after doing a google search on the question of installation rules. I also live some distance away from any large centre and hence find the idea of this forum useful in contacting folk with the same questions I'm looking for answers for! Has anyone out there got copies of old exam papers, paper 1 & paper 2 for installation rules that could help me with preparing for these exams? I'd be most grateful for any assistance in this area. Many thanks. (This is my first post, by the way!!!)

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## Master Electrician

I have a few past exam papers for you guys. Give me a few days and I will send them to the webmaster to put them on the site.

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## harveya

thanks to all you guys on this forum. I've followed the thread with interest and am fascinated to find so much here that is concerning me right now. wish i'd found this long ago!
i'm very grateful that there are folk willing to submit old exam papers which will be a great aid in preparing for the exams. in my situation i have no idea how the papers are structured, although i have an idea of the syllabus (which basically is the whole sans 10142 as well as various other acts). i will still have to register with an institution, do classes etc. before the exams, but it would be good to go into the classes with an idea of what is ahead.
i am also pleased to see that in most cases the safety of the client is paramount and that is obviously the reason for a solid set of rules in the first place.
may i wish all those in the same boat as i am good luck with their effort in negotiating the process to ultimately get their "ticket" (although i see that it is generally no longer referred to in that manner!) :Smile:

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## Ray12

yay, thanks so much, old exam papers would really help!! you are awesome!!  :Big Grin:

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## Katy

hi Guys,
I am actaully trying to find out for my husband where / what institution we can enquire at with regards to getting his wiremans / master electrician?
please can anyone help me as i am a total virgin in this department.
we live in durban, kzn.
appreicate your help,
regards,
katy

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## toni

Im in Durban an have applied for installation licence an have no joy with the department of manpower, if any of u have had similar problem can u please advice me, its been quite awhile an im getting no where, Toni

----------


## Sparks

http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...?t=5263&page=3

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## undjizuva

hallo! im from namibia can you pls forward me the steps to complete to buy the sans 10142 cd online.....

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## *<OZZY>*

HI GYZ , I JST FINISHED MATRIC AND ULTIMATELY WANT TO OBTAIN A THREE PHASE LICENSE . WAT STEPS SHOULD I TAKE FROM HERE ON. OH AND I NEED INFO ON COURSE DURATION THANX.................

PS: I'M CURRENTLY IN JOZI

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## SilverNodashi

> HI GYZ , I JST FINISHED MATRIC AND ULTIMATELY WANT TO OBTAIN A THREE PHASE LICENSE . WAT STEPS SHOULD I TAKE FROM HERE ON. OH AND I NEED INFO ON COURSE DURATION THANX.................
> 
> PS: I'M CURRENTLY IN JOZI



You could start by not shouting  :Smile:

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## cvmostert

I Wrote my second Installation Rules paper today, it seemd to be ok, but lets wait for the results.

I heard that if you are an Electrical Engineer and registered as a professional with ECSA, you can apply for a wiremans liscense? Does anyone know anything about this?

Regards,
Chris

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## Sparks

I would not be surprised. There are some Engineers running around that are clueless as to the basics, let alone the regs.

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## Dave A

> I heard that if you are an Electrical Engineer and registered as a professional with ECSA, you can apply for a wiremans liscense?


True last I heard, but I would expect a professional engineer would know his/her place in the order of things. Engineers have a different role to the artisan and one would expect they wouldn't step into the terrain of the skilled artisan lightly.

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## cvmostert

Thanks for your comments, I actually am a Consulting Engineer, and as I said, also wrote both exams ( waiting for the results of the second ) But someone just brought up what I asked in my previous post and It made me think - still does not seem right. I will apply to become a Pr. within the next few weeks, I already have 4 years of hands-on experience. I just thought it best to ALSO have the knowledge and expertise of the SANS 10142-1 and wanted to do the exam.

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## Gei

Hi cv. i also wrote the second paper that day. Was surprised to see anex q being one of the questions. That is suppose to fall in the first paper, Anyway hope to pass.

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## cvmostert

> Hi cv. i also wrote the second paper that day. Was surprised to see anex q being one of the questions. That is suppose to fall in the first paper, Anyway hope to pass.


YES! I did not expect that... lets hope for the best! When can we call to hear?

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## SparkyScott

I also wrote my second paper that day,anex Q use to be in paper 2 then it got moved to paper 1 then they just choose which paper to put it in now.Where did you guys write?I think we can phone next week or the week after.

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## cvmostert

I wrote in Krugersdorp. They said we can call on 1 September 2011.
If at first attempt you don't succeed, do it again!
Good luck to you!

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## Gei

PASS  :Smile:  Now for the practical part. This is the expensive part.

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## Dave A

> PASS


Congratulations  :Thumbup:

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## AndyD

> PASS  Now for the practical part. This is the expensive part.


Nice work. Good luck with the practical, I'm sure you'll walk it.

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## SparkyScott

Well done to everyone who passed,I've passed also done my COC so have to wait 4 weeks for the results,all that has to be done now is my portfolio.

Scott

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## SparkyScott

COC passed,now just my portfolio and I'm then good to get going

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## Gei

Hi yes i also past the unit standards. Now where do you go to apply for the license?
Can I download an application or how does it work??

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## Kerneels

hi guys
i just wan know, where in Pretoria/Johannesburg/Witbank area can I do my unit standards?

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## BlueArc

Hi Guys
As always some really great information for us electricians to read up on here so keep posting!
I have been wainting nearly a two months now for my letter from the ECA with regards to the unit standards course. Does anyone know how long it usually takes the ECA to issue the letter? ECA say that they are not the ones at fault since they are waiting for the SETA's to sign them...if this is the case well then I'll never get them.

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## SparkyScott

I have waited so far 5months to hear back from the ECA to see if they think I'm qualified enough.

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## Jacques#1

> I have waited so far 5months to hear back from the ECA to see if they think I'm qualified enough.


Sit on them.  I did my Unit Standards at Western Cape for a reason, they send the forms in literally the same day you pass, and they follow up continuously.  They got the forms signed a week later.  That wasn't my problem though, the DOL refused to give me my wiremans since I qualified on the new system (with the old systems tests??).  Does not make sense, let me explain.....  The system moved from appy to learner, but the admin was none existent.  So the CHIETA, industry where I did my trade, tested me on both, which took 3 years and 2 months.  My final exam was 5 trade jobs with a minimum of 80% pass for all of them (much higher standards than the old appy system, yet I was still on the a type of a hybrid appy/learner course, and this was done at an existing testing center, not at Olifants).  I believe the admin is more improved and system is different?  Anyway, to make a long story longer.

The DOL said they did not recognise my trade.  I sent a letter to the chief of the CHIETA with a complaint, threats with legal action etc.  They sent it on to SETA.  We then set up a meeting with DOL, CHIETA, SETA and ESETA.  The DOL only recognised ESETA as the only SETA who could qualify a person for wiremans.  After a lot of back and forth, proving my qualifications and threats of legal action, I got my wiremans a week later from the DOL.

All of this I did in about three months from writing my unit standard tests.  So I would not happy with anything more than 2 months, cause you still have to send everything in again to DOL and wait once again.

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## BlueArc

Thanks Jacques#1 for the info. I just gave the ECA in Cape Townn a call and they say they have been waiting from the SETA to sign the letters and they are not sure when they will be ready. 
I did here about the whole system being screwd up with changes and some SETA's not being recognised etc. which is just typical of our current industry in SA...up the creek!
I qualified under the appy scheme and then did my trade test through MERSETA which is apparently the best one...they claim so will be interesting to see how I get along at the DOL. Thanks for you story since I may fall into this trap. 
I have already filled out all my documents for the DOL applicatio  but can't send it to them without the letter...what a pity.
This country is in need of wiremans but yet they screw us around, we are not properly remunerated, the contracting industry is not policed and the list goes on...
Thanks again though.

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## SparkyScott

Well I went to the eca today and they had my results its only been sitting there since december,so now I have to send my stuff to the DOL in Pretoria is this right?Also has anyone got the address for the DOL in Pretoria please? Scott

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## Jacechop

When you find it please post it here. There is valuable information in this thread and will be nice to keep it all current and informative for the next guy?

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## Jacechop

I stand corrected!!!! https://checkout.netsuite.com/app/ce...42/sc.6/n.1/.f

That will take you to the up and coming online registration (annually) and electronic CoC'c.

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## johnr86

Ok, There is alot of valuable information but I'm still in the..... dark(electrician joke maybe? :P)

I'm interested in becoming a master electrician and I stay in Durban. Is there anyone who has achieved this recently and knows the system and where to go?
I'm currently working as a "maintenance & contracts technician" on mechanical,electrical and instrumentation systems including lots of admin work.
I have the following:
1) NDip S4 Mechanical Engineering (DUT)
2) S3 Electrical Engineering-Mechatronics (UNISA)- 3 subjects left until finsished S4.....hopefully!
3) Trade Tested Electrician 3 phase since April last year.

Does the fact that I am busy with Mechatronics and not Power Engineering a problem? 
Is the fact that I am not working strictly as an "electrician"  a problem?
Do I have to finish S4 Electrical to start with the master electrician process?
Do I need a specific amount of years experience post trade qualification?

Thanks for the help!

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## BlueArc

In order to become a master installation electrician you will need to have the following:
1. Be registered with the DoL as an installation electrician for TWO years.
2. You need to submit proof that you have worked in a hazardous location for a least one full year
3. Complete the unit standards for specialized electrical installations
4. Have completed S4 specifically in Power Engineering OR T3 in Heavy Current
5. Passed the subject "Specialised electrical installation codes" 

This is just one way, which for me was the best and easiest, but there are 2 other routes to go. 
If you need more info you can contact the ECA and they can send you a document with the registration criteria.
Unfortunately this process take well over 6 months to go through after you have sumitted your application since the DoL is pretty much useless AND everything gets sent up to Pretoria for reviewing etc. 

Hope this helps you!

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AndyD (12-Aug-12)

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## johnr86

Thanks for the info!

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## Yuri

I have completed my 3ph wireman's 
And  completed paper 1 & 2 of specialized instolation rules 
Now the only problem is to get the unit standards for masters 
All the places i have contacted puts you on a waiting list until thy think there is the corect amount of students. Then thy give the class 
Is there a place that i do not have to wait that i can just do the course at?

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## Daniel C

I have recently done the unit standards at the following. They are very helpful. The main guy to talk to is Peter Smuts but there are other people as well who will help.
Western Cape Approved electrical inspection authority. Telephone:   021 - 987 3010  Facsimile:    021 - 987 3083	Email:  training@wcaeia.co.za 
1 Robert Road, Kraaifontein     		
P.O. Box 163, Cape Gate, 7562

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## carryn-leigh

Hi

My boyfriend has been working in the electrical industry for 8 years now.  He never finished high school, and started working almost as soon as he left (at the end of grade 8).  He has done some subjects here and there.  My question is 
1) Is there such a thing as "qualification through experience"?
2) Failing that, will the subjects he has done so far (through 2 or 3 different institutions) count if he carries on studying next year?  
I am worried that he will have to start from scratch again.

Thanks

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## AndyD

When you say he's done some subjects here and there, are these 'unit standards'? Can you be more specific? There's not really any such thing as qualifying by experience, it's possible to qualify by having other relevant and usually higher qualifications such as an electrical engineering degree.

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## carryn-leigh

As far as I understand, I don't think he has done the unit standards.  I can't find his academic records, so I'm not sure what he has or hasn't done exactly.  He tells me that 'all he needs to do' is N2 and N3 Maths (although he is under the impression he can jump straight to N3 without doing the N2 module) and then N2 and N3 Engineering Science.
The reason I am asking about the experience thing is some engineer told him that the law was recently changed so that you can just get your qualification by experience.  Personally, I think he is just holding on to anything that says he doesn't have to study.

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## Yuri

Is he looking to be a single phase tester
He needs 5 years experience in electrical instolation work letter from his employer   
And myst compleat eseta  traing for single phase tester

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## carryn-leigh

No, he would need to get his Installation Electrician licence.  He works for a company that deals with factory maintanance and the likes.  From what I have read, a single phase tester only works on houses and smaller buildings.  
I tried to speak to him about all this, but he is insistant that I have no clue what is going on.  I guess you can only lead a horse to water, hey?

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## Yuri

Then he needs to be qualified ( red seal ) 
He needs N3 with maths,  engenering science,  and electro technology or electrical triad theory
Must have the  paper 1 & 2 of instolation rules is specific time 
He must have completed the unit standard on 3 phase testing...  eseta certificate

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## Dave A

> The reason I am asking about the experience thing is some engineer told him that the law was recently changed so that you can just get your qualification by experience.


The engineer was probably referring to Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL). The short answer is it exists in theory, but rarely in practice for anything of significance, and still requires a structured assessment process. 

The objective was to be enable the issuing of certificates as recognition of basic skills acquired and demonstrated. It was also supposed to deal with issues of qualification equivalency, but there's a member here called skatingsparks that will testify that when it comes to getting the wiremans licence in SA, equivalency does not fly very well. 

There is very little flexibility and certainly no QBE.

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## businesssuccess

Hi All

I work for Business Success Solutions, we provide engineering training and conferences and currently have an event on SANS 10142-1 Including Amendment 8 it can also help in clearly up issues when it comes to the Wiremans Licence as we have the MD from the GEIA that will be presenting this event.

Should you require a program with the dates please drop me an e-mail on magnum@businesssuccess.co.za 

Best Regards
Magnum

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## msaodern

hi name is Collen, how long does it take b4 u get DOL registration card from you

regards
Collen
cell: 082 528 8789
tel: 011 046 9978

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## Leecatt

> hi name is Collen, how long does it take b4 u get DOL registration card from you
> 
> regards
> Collen
> cell: 082 528 8789
> tel: 011 046 9978


Please list ALL your qualifications and experience in the electrical field

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## aloysiouskofya

I am an artisan electrician having NQF Level 4.I want to apply for a wiremans licence, What do i do

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## Leecatt

> I am an artisan electrician having NQF Level 4.I want to apply for a wiremans licence, What do i do



When I did it you had to pass papers 1 and 2 of the installation rules at a college, Germiston College for me.
Be a qualified Artisan Electrician for 24 months and fork out for the fee but I believe it is slightly more involved now.
Go through the various posts on this forum as well as I know someone has listed the requirements before

Its been 15 years since I did this but your first stop would be to contact the DOL and find out the requirements that are necessary now, unless someone else here knows?

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## TanyaH

Hi, my husband qualified in Zimbabwe, has over 20 years
 working experience as an Electrician. We moved to SA after
 10yrs in the UK and SAQA have certified his qualifications
 as an N4.

He would like to get his SA wiremans (3 phase) but really
 has not been given a straight answer by anyone. He
 registered for a 10wk course for units 1 and 2 (Saturdays
 only) but it really proved to be too much to handle!!!

I have been doing some reading and found something about
 him applying under Section 28 due to his experience? What
 would this entail? If it means he still has to write exams,
 can anyone recommend a course with a good reputation/
pass rate in the West Rand?

Really need some advice!!!

Thanks in advance!

----------


## Leecatt

> Hi, my husband qualified in Zimbabwe, has over 20 years
>  working experience as an Electrician. We moved to SA after
>  10yrs in the UK and SAQA have certified his qualifications
>  as an N4.
> 
> He would like to get his SA wiremans (3 phase) but really
>  has not been given a straight answer by anyone. He
>  registered for a 10wk course for units 1 and 2 (Saturdays
>  only) but it really proved to be too much to handle!!!
> ...


I belong to the ECA and I think they do courses in this field. Why not give them a ring on 011 392 0000 and see what they suggest?
Good luck

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## TanyaH

Thanks Leecatt, appreciate it.  :Smile:

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## Daniel C

Hi TanyaH. Someone you could also contact is WCAEIA in Cape Town, their no is 0219873010 and speak to either Corne' or the boss who is Peter. I'm sure they will be able to assist you. Welcome to SA my Zim friends. 'eep in touch Rhodies.

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## mikilianis

TanyaH the best way is for your husband do a local trade test I know of a U.K. sparky who resorted to that and after doing the test said that he should of done that in the fist place as after all his running around all he could get was a single phase tester certification

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## SparkyScott

I had to do units 1 and 2 a portfolio and a COC course,I wasn't going to go to the study classes on a Saturday but in the end I did and it was for 9 weeks,I'm glad that I did as it helped a lot.So I don't think there's any other way other then to do what I had to do.

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## koedoe

Hallo,  you can contact Wynand Moller of TDMI training.  His number is on their website.  He will help you with all your qeustions.  Or visit them at www.tdmi.co.za.  He is very good.  Helped my friend alot!




> Hi, my husband qualified in Zimbabwe, has over 20 years
>  working experience as an Electrician. We moved to SA after
>  10yrs in the UK and SAQA have certified his qualifications
>  as an N4.
> 
> He would like to get his SA wiremans (3 phase) but really
>  has not been given a straight answer by anyone. He
>  registered for a 10wk course for units 1 and 2 (Saturdays
>  only) but it really proved to be too much to handle!!!
> ...


Call TDMI training 0760687668 they will help you

----------


## AndyD

You wouldn't be somehow connected with TDMI training would you Koedoe?

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## Dave A

I thought I'd try the post merge functionality - it works  :Smile: 

Maybe koedoe should tell TDMI to answer some of the training related questions to demonstrate their expertise on the subject. I'm sure the credibility earned here might result is a few enrolments.

----------


## koedoe

> You wouldn't be somehow connected with TDMI training would you Koedoe?


Thanks Andy> Connected in the sense that they helped a friend of mine to get them registered, so yes i know them and i know were their offices are but as to working for them or getting something out of the deal. NO. All i know is that they can help and i don`t see the thread in that. :Smile: 

Thanks for the inquiry.
Koedoe

----------


## koedoe

> I thought I'd try the post merge functionality - it works 
> 
> Maybe koedoe should tell TDMI to answer some of the training related questions to demonstrate their expertise on the subject. I'm sure the credibility earned here might result is a few enrolments.


Hi Dave. I`ve forward them your request and they will respond promptly.

Koedoe

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## W-TDMI

> I am an artisan electrician having NQF Level 4.I want to apply for a wiremans licence, What do i do


2.1 A candidate must:
2.1.1 Minimum Integrated Practical and Theoretical Qualification
(a) Achieved a National Certificate in Electrical Engineering:
NQF level 4 issued by the ESETA.
(b) Submit documentary proof of successful completed unit
standards on inspection, testing and certification of three
phase industrial/commercial installations as prescribed by
the ESETA.
2.1.2 Knowledge of Statutory Requirements
Submit proof of knowledge on the legislation and relevant health
and safety standards applicable to electrical installations by
having passed the subject Installation Rules as administered by
the Department of Education.

This is what you will need before you can register for your license. Feel free to ask questions as we help students to register and maybe able to answer your questions. 
This is our first post thanks to Koedoe for the hint.

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## W-TDMI

> Hi, my husband qualified in Zimbabwe, has over 20 years
>  working experience as an Electrician. We moved to SA after
>  10yrs in the UK and SAQA have certified his qualifications
>  as an N4.
> 
> He would like to get his SA wiremans (3 phase) but really
>  has not been given a straight answer by anyone. He
>  registered for a 10wk course for units 1 and 2 (Saturdays
>  only) but it really proved to be too much to handle!!!
> ...


Hi TanyaH.
If you say 20Years working experience, is there by any way a chance that he has a Trade certificate even if its from Zim? If not thats the first step is to get your husband to Qualify as a tradesman. Section 28 is the best option for him as it is done under experience as you mentioned. For that you need a traceable company letterhead stating your husbands experience. This way of registering is in the process of being discarded so it wont be a option for long anymore. The other option is to do a RPL (recognition of prior learning) at a institution that are registered for that and then do you normal Section 13 trade. After the trade they will need you to do Installation rules (P1&2). Then you need to do WESETA certificate for testing and inspecting (with which we can help). Only now can we apply for his license from DOL. Hope this will help. W-TDMI

----------


## W-TDMI

> I thought I'd try the post merge functionality - it works 
> 
> Maybe koedoe should tell TDMI to answer some of the training related questions to demonstrate their expertise on the subject. I'm sure the credibility earned here might result is a few enrolments.


Thanks Dave A
We will gladly assist in any possible way we can. We are registered with the WESETA and will answer all qustiones to our best knowledge and if we don`t know the answer we will help in finding out the right answer.
Regards
W-TDMI

----------

Dave A (30-Jun-13)

----------


## trevor27

Really

----------


## fenix

Hi all.
New here.  I am trade tested section 28 electrician currently working towards getting wiremans licence.  On the department of labour website can search for accredited person form.  Basically gives breakdown of different qualifications, single phase tester right up to master installation electrician as well as the different routes to get there.  (http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/downloa...lation2014.pdf)

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## vanderbijljurie

Good day.



I did my N. Dip Mechanical engineering NQF 6 with extra Electrical Engineering III subject which is also NQF 6. I have 4 years of relevant experience. What else do I need to complete to get my wireman's license?



Thank you very much for . I really appreciate it.



Jurie

----------


## W-TDMI

Hi Jurie.
1. You need to finish up your Installation rules P1 & P2.
2. Complete UStandards on Test and Inspect as well as Issue of COC.

See attached document option 2.1 from DOL guidelines.

Regards
TDMI

----------

AndyD (09-Mar-17)

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## Msawenkosi

Greetings. Im in Durban and where can i go for Wireman's Licence and roughly how much are the costs?

----------


## Yves

Do you know the content of (Please Share if you do, I will also share shortly my electrical trade test book exams)

-  3 Phase COC Unit Standards (Certificate of Compliance—COC)


*** Unit Standard 13683 - 5 Credit, Level 5
Issue Certificate of Compliance for a Domestic/Commercial/Industrial Installation.

** Unit Standard 259197 - 10 credit, Level 4
Test and inspect a Three-Phase Industrial and Commercial Installation.*

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## W-TDMI

Hi Yves.

Its a complete course that you need to finalise before registration with DOL. You are more than welcome to contact with us as we can assisst in the process and registration.

Regards

W-TDMI

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## SeanM

Hi All

I would like to give a testimonial to TDMI, I did my unit standards with TDMI and they assisted with information with installation rules (which made it alot easier) 

I would strongly recommend TDMI (Wynand the facilitator is very knowledgeable and passionate about the success of his learner's)

----------

W-TDMI (07-Nov-18)

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## WadeR

Hi All, there is a wealth of information I've encountered here reading through comments from 2010 till 2018. I currently have a National Diploma in electrical Engineering (Heavy current). I am on the process of apply for installation rules commencing in May. Once that is completed and I've passed. Am I correct by saying that the next thing to do would be the unit standards before applying for a wiremans license . My goal is to obtain a wiremans license as a installation electrician. I have 4 years working experience but it's not heavy current orientated. Thanks I'm advance

----------


## W-TDMI

Hi WadeR, you are on your way. I normally suggest to my students to do the Unit Standards before the Installation Rules as the practicals assist you a lot in understanding the theory so much easier. there`s no sequence in what you have to complete it but as long as you have them all done at registration. Please contact with us if you need any assistance.

----------

