# Regulatory Compliance Category > Consumer Protection Act Forum >  iphone 5

## ians

Had a very interesting experience today, I purchased an iphone 5 on Saturday last week took a while to get use to it. I was battling with the touch screen so I went and got a pen looking goodie to make it easier to type.

After a couple of days I got the hang of it, but found the top right hand side of the touch screen would not always work, I would have to got back and back to try get the on/off switch to function etc, so I took it back to Telkom today, because I got it on the iphone5 mix contract. 

I was told I had to go get the contract and the packaging, etc, which I did, they checked the phone acknowledged there was a problem and told me they would replace the iphone 5, an hour and a half later sitting patiently waiting for them to "register the new phone" or so I was told, they came out and told me that apple do not fall with the CPA in this country and that the "OBW" out of the box warranty did not apply to apple products. they would have to send the phone for repairs. So I contacted my lawyer who told me it is rubbish the CPA applies to all product but he would confirm on Monday. 

So I told them I wanted to cancel the contract which I am entitled to do within 7 days if I am not happy, which they indicated was not a problem and I could get another contract with any other phone on offer.

SO I cancelled the contract and will get a new contract with a Z10 instead which I am advised by Telkom, does fall within the "OBW" (out of the box warranty) in fact every single other phone does just not apple.

So the next time you want to purchase an apple product from Telkom you better make sure you understand that apple doesn't fall within "OBW" or the CPA in South Africa  :Mad: 

The issue I now have is that I have downloaded apps which cost me money, purchased a cover which cost a couple hundred bucks, lost all my contacts again because we had to format the phone because it had credit card details etc which were use to purchase apps. What a waste of time and money.

I have contacted Wendy Knowler with regards to this issue, and will be interested to hear what her response is going to be.

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## HR Solutions

Anything you have downloaded on Apple including your contacts etc etc is on your apple id.  Therefore when you get your new iphone 5, you log on with your id and retrieve everything.

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## ians

There is no new iphone 5 they are refusing to replace it...they told me that apple product do not fall into the "OBW" out of the box warranty and therefore I could not replace the phone I have to send it in for repairs, even though I have only had it for 6 days. I cancelled the contract with Telkom and handed in the phone. 

Only apple products are not covered by OBW because they say that apple products are guaranteed to work 100% out the box, but apple are prepared to repair the phone.

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## ians

I found this on the apple website,

Apple Products and Statutory Warranty

For consumers, who are covered by consumer protection laws or regulations in their country of purchase or, if different, their country of residence, the benefits conferred by Apple's One Year Limited Warranty are in addition to all rights and remedies conveyed by such consumer protection laws and regulations, including but not limited to these additional rights. For information on consumer law in specific countries, please see the Additional Legal Rights pages

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## ians

I decided to contact other apple distributors in SA and was advised that there is a 7 day swop out for OBF (it called out of box failure not OBW) fro all apple products. They informed me that it is Telkom are the ones making their own rules, it not apple.

I was informed that even in the USA there is a 7 day swop out for out of box failure.

Let the games begin.

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## ians

I would like to thank Telkom for my brand new iphone 5 and accept the apology from management...I would also like to thank the person (staff member) who helped me and went out of his way like he always does to assist...which is what keeps me going back.

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## adrianh

Samsung SA made it clear today that they would replace the S4 twice in 2 years for free if the screen fails or if the phone is "water damaged"


Samsung RULEZ

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

In any circumstance, your contract is with Telkom and not Apple.
Where a product carries a guarantee, that guarantee is in addition to the automatic 6 months afforded by the CPA. 
Customer is entitled to the repair, replace or refund at any stage within the first 6 months where the product is faulty.

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## ians

Now the fun really begins, I took the brand new iphone 5 out the box, installed the sim card, setup the phone and found it has exactly the same problem.

For example, when you go to Nike + ipod touch it another screen pops up and in the top right corner there is an on - off slide/switch which slide left to right, sometimes it will switch if you slide your finger across it, but no every time and if you change your mind and switch it back, it could take as many 10 or 20 swipes to get it to move back. I don't know if this is a bad batch of iphone that are being distributed or if this is an iphone 5 problem. The same applies to any setting which requires adjustment in the top right hand corner of the phone. If you slide or tap any one of the same on/off switches anywhere else on the touch screen they respond 1st time left and right.

I have sent apple.com an email to see what their response is going to be.

I will be going to apple in gateway today and see if I cant get an apple stylus, and try it, maybe the screen is just too sensitive for my fingers or the stylus I have been experimenting with. I will also try find other iphone 5 today and see if they react in the same manner, maybe it is just a faulty batch.

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## ians

> In any circumstance, your contract is with Telkom and not Apple.
> Where a product carries a guarantee, that guarantee is in addition to the automatic 6 months afforded by the CPA. 
> Customer is entitled to the repair, replace or refund at any stage within the first 6 months where the product is faulty.


You need to inform telkom about this, because Telkom management felt they were doing me a huge favour yesterday replacing the phone even though it was within 7 days and the out the box failure applies worldwide. They insist that this rule doesn't apply to apple products they are importing. I tried to contact apple South Africa, unfortunately there is no Apple South Africa, so you are pretty screwed buying Apple products in south Africa, especially when you end up with a faulty product out the box.

Just something else Telkom management indicated to me yesterday, if the brand new phone I took out the box yesterday is faulty I must return it by today other wise my 7 days out the box failure would have expired because I signed the contract a 7 days ago today, regardless of the fact that they replaced the phone yesterday and it seems the Apple product has a defect.

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## Dave A

> I will also try find other iphone 5 today and see if they react in the same manner, maybe it is just a faulty batch.


Good luck getting an admission that it's a faulty batch - then it's mandatory recall time.

Thinking about it, perhaps the reason why they changed their tune from _replace_ to _repair_ is because Telkom is already aware they've got a bad batch problem.

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## ians

It is going to be an interesting day today.

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## adrianh

Well, now we know where Apple is heading....fast...to the great big worm farm...

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## ians

What I need to find out today, is this a software issue or a hardware issue. 

What I need to do today is check another phone with the same software purchased from a different location at a different time and see if it responds in the same manner or if is the batch of iphones being distributed from Telkom.

I just wish Wendy Knowler had responded to my email, at least I would have some backup with regards to my consumer right, maybe she is just tooo busy.

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## Blurock

The Apple phone is mass produced in China, what do you expect? US quality?

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## adrianh

US Quality.....?

Like the Ford Pinto?

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## HR Solutions

I am getting my iPhone 5 next week, and asking Nashua mobile about this problem they said it must be a Telkom thing as it is untrue.

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Hi Ians, my 5 is pretty much the same. But I discovered that if I just keep my finger on the slider, as if it is a push button, for about 1 second, then when I lift it, it switches to the other option as if I slid the slider. Hope that makes sense. My wife's is pretty much the same too.

Regarding Telkom's story, they're nuts. As AdrainH pointed out, it has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the vendor; them.

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Actually Ians, I just spent a few minutes testing it again, and it seems it is actually a push button that merely resembles a slider  :Embarrassment: 

I can't tell you how this has annoyed me when trying to set it to Airplane mode when flying! I feel kinda silly now.

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## Justloadit

I do not have the app you mention, however the only similarity to the screen you mention, is to go to 'Settings', and go to "Airplane Mode". The acceptance of the command is not instantaneous, but if I keep my finger there for a second or so, it is processed. Sometimes if I click fast, it misses my finger input and is explained below.

We tend to get used to things happening instantaneously, and tend to forget what amount of processing is taking place in our hands irrespective of what we are doing. There is only one processor in the unit, and no matter how fast it is, the first priority is the control of the modem and the communications protocol required to maintain the link to the network alive, including GPRS, HSPA, GPS, WiFi, Blue Tooth, screen, and other functions. Basically the processor splits it processing time into time slices, and the time slice is proportional the the priority of what is physically going on. The modem takes precedence over any other action the phone may be doing, and requires continuous processing, as opposed to watching movies or some other screen function. There are special DMA's that take care of the screen and updating, and requires very little processing power, however touch is another story, it requires the processor to physically be accessing the screen  sensing circuitry, and it can only do this in time slices, as it requires time for the modem. So if your timing is wrong, you may be pressing and releasing the screen when the processor is accessing other functions of the phone.

Only when one sits down and actually starts looking at how these items are made, do we appreciate the amount of engineering required, and all this is taken for granted.

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Dave A (27-Apr-13)

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## ians

This defect on the iphone 5 has nothing to do with Telkom.

when my mate signed up a contract with Vodacom today, the contract he signed clearly states that you have to hand in the phone so that they can check that it has not been dropped or has no water damage, it was pointed out to him and he then had to sign it, if there is not a scratch on the phone or no signs of water damage an ok from the technical department, only then with you receive a new hand set. So a word of warning make sure you have a complete cover for your phone because if it has the slightest chip or mark which indicates it could have been dropped, you cannot claim the out of box failure.

When you pay R9000 for an item which is suppose to be the best product on the market you expect it to at least be defect free, in other words the screen should be aligned with the "buttons" or "slides", most people wont even notice it because they use their finger or thumb which is even bigger, so it touches below the "button" "slide", the reason because the defect is across the top of the phone the "button" "slide" is just below what you see on the screen, so in future it you find you are sliding and sliding or tapping and tapping and nothing is happening anywhere on the top two lines just move slightly down and you will notice the response is immediate ever shot a coconut. My phone is responsive on literally every stroke or tap now because I know where to touch the top of the screen. You will notice things like when you are in chats for example when you touch broadcast message it will edit, if you move to the centre of broad cast message and slightly down it will not try edit. What I have noticed it is that if you use your finger and not a stylus like I do, you will normally get it right because of the angle of your finger or thumb.

One of the "technician" didn't even know his phone had the defect until I pointed it out to him today. like most people using the iphone 5 assumed it was just a oily finger or miss swipe or something.

I heard some interesting answers to the issues today one being that you had to wait because it was processing the info, so I moved one of the centre "slides" "buttons" to the top and waited but when you move it back to the middle of the screen it responded immediately, so that theory went out the window.

Another being it was the stylus I was using, so I took one sold by apple and used that same problem.

Another being that you are suppose to touch the screen not slide it across, that's why it wasn't working so we did a touch test same problem.

I thought politicians could side step, I saw a whole new form of shuffling today.

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Dave A (28-Apr-13), Justloadit (28-Apr-13)

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## ians

What makes me laugh about this whole thing is the reaction I get from people, its not to hell with Apple they should sort out the problem, the reaction from people is they find it amusing and actually laugh at me, I heard some people sitting in a group yesterday making fun of me because of my issue with my iphone, and yet people cry because they as a consumer are treated so badly in this country.

Some people ask, so what do I want out of this issue or why don't I just hand the phone in and get a nokia or Samsung, it is simple all I want is what I paid for, a defect free phone, I don't want my phone sent back for repairs, I want Apple to send me a phone with the screen calibrated correctly or a software/firmware upgrade which will sort out the problem, that is it, nothing more nothing less. 

I purchased a Ryobi product a while back to cut wood, I paid about R500 for it I expected very little for it in terms of accuracy etc, I then upgraded it to a Makita sliding saw with a laser, it cost around R12000 I expected a little more from it but did realise it wasn't the best product on the market so I live with the laser not being 100% accurate and bluured, when I cut a 45 and slide it back to the 90 degree it is not always 100%, but when I get around to investing in a Festo cut off saw which will cost me around R17000 and it is said to be the best on the market and most accurate, I will expect the machine to be 100% not 99 %.

Something you need to be aware of, there is no "Apple South Africa" in fact South africa is not even listed on their international website, the Apple distributors are merely distributors of the Apple product, so what does this mean, you buy an Apple product chances are the shop where you buy the product imported it directly, so when you have a problem you cant go to another shop and expect them to sort out the problem, you have to take it back to where you purchased, like in my case it has to go back to Telkom, it will then be returned to which ever country they are importing the product from to get it sorted out, it could take months, and getting a brand new phone is not going to resolve the issue until Apple recalibrate it or send out firmware upgrade to sort out this problem.

So before you rush out and purchase a new Apple product maybe you should read this...and do some research.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2013/03...ne-ipad-users/

I have still not had a response to my emails from Apple to date, could it be that they know about the issue and don't have a firmware/ software solution yet or could it be that recalling over 27 millions phones already sold could be a rather costly experience, or maybe they hoping I go buy another iphone and leave them alone so they don't have to worry about it because nobody else is.

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## ians

By the way if apple wanted the blocks to be tap functions, why did they design it in way that it looks like a slide function when you move it from left to right or right to left to switch function on - off. I was told by one of the "technicians" that's why it wasn't working, I had to tap it not slide it, I just kept quiet and smiled.

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## HR Solutions

ians in a way you are right, but you could find fault with any brand of phone.  The Apple brand is a mega brand.  One of the Apple shops in Regent street London is 5 stories high.  It is an amazing store, really amazing.  There are no pay counters, only staff walking around with little credit card gadgets.  If you want a product they punch it into this gadget.  Within 2 minutes someone else delivers this gadget to this guy wherever you and him are now standing.  You swipe your card and done deal.  They have 600 people working at this one store alone.  The hype in and around these stores are absolutely amazing.  Once you have gone apple most people dont look back.  I looked for this problem you had over the weekend and have seen what you are talking about with the slide that you have to push.  To me it is not a problem, but obviously to others it is.  I love my 4S and am now upgrading to the 5.  
Hope you get sorted out one way or the other.

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## ians

HR it is a slide or tap function either way it works, but as you mentioned most people don't even know there is a problem they just keep swiping or tapping what ever blows their hair back. I don't really care what Apple decide to do with the 30 million + phones which have this problem, or if other people do find this problem or not, al I want is for my phone to work correctly. Not one other person I have spoken t even knows the problem exists, so it is no big deal.

By the way Samsung phone screens can be calibrated from a setting in the phone.

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## ians

I was wondering why Wendy Knowler had not responded to my email, while at Gateway getting my mates contract renewed I asked them (at Vodacom) about the OBF and CPA, they told me that they had put Wendy Knowler in her place on numerous occasion with regards to their contract and OBF clause, hence the reason for bringing to each customers attention and making them initial the clause.

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## CLIVE-TRIANGLE

Ians, the reason it is a Telkom problem is because the Consumer Protection Act determines that it is. The Act provides you with 6 months protection from any defect; the product to be replaced, fixed or refunded at your choice, by or from whoever you purchased it.

By the way, iPad works exactly the same way; it is indeed a push button and not a slider. Of course,, sometimes when you slide your finger across it, it detects a push and will sometimes work. But as a push button it works every time.

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## ians

Interesting that you say that, because they call it a touch pad, yet when you want to unlock the Iphone 5 it clearly states slide to unlock.

http://www.cultofmac.com/222441/five...about-feature/

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## HR Solutions

Ians I just found this article.  Current bids to meet with the Apple CEO.  Thought you might be interested  :Wink: 





> Would you like to have coffee with Apple CEO, Tim Cook? 
> 
> All you have to do is win the auction that is currently sitting at around R5,400,000 for a 1 hour meeting. Only two weeks left - get your bids in now! All proceeds go to charity.

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## ians

Unfortunately I am not one of those people who follow other people.

Anyone can achieve great things in life, you just need to tell your mind that and take the first step.

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## haroldnov

I found Nexus 4 so much better than iPhone 5 that my wife has.

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## ians

It seems the response from Apple and people who use Apple products is if I cant live with the defect, I should return the phone for a refund, that would be the easy way out.

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## HR Solutions

ians with all due respect, but as an Apple user myself, I love my phone.  The little "defect" that you are refferring to is not a defect in my eyes and i am sure in a lot of peoples eyes, otherwise they would not continue upgrading when a new model comes out.  It is merely touching it on that one place instead of sliding it.  To me the phone is the best thing since marmite  :Smile: 
And without sounding rude or anything, but if people dont like a product then they should not buy the product or return it if they are not happy and get another product.  I have had Nokia's Blackberry, Samsung Galaxy S3 which to me also has "defects" on the phone eg the two touch screen buttons on either side of the push button at the bottom, caused big problems for me.  I thought that that was a defect in the design.  I sold it and moved on.

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CLIVE-TRIANGLE (02-May-13)

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## Justloadit

I have a Samsung S111 and an iPhone, and to be very honest, one is no better than the other.

In fact I tend to like my iPhone, as it has a nice feel/touch in my hand, I kind of like the square edge feel, as opposed to the Samsung which is a larger phone in physical size and a round edge, and it is a bit of a hassle to have on my belt clip. I do not like to carry the phone in my shirt pocket, as I get a tingling feeling on my chest, and may or may not be due to the RF, I even get it when the phone is switched off so probably a mind thing, and secondly, if I bend down it falls out my pocket.

Yes I did damage my screen on my iPhone and it cost me R3500.00 to replace, Samsung now has 2 free screen replacements as a warranty.

Different strokes for different folks.

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## HR Solutions

There is a company that repairs Apple products, screens etc for i phones, mini's etc etc in Sandton at a fraction of the cost. So this def makes me a happy chappy as I am also quite rough on phones  :Smile:

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## Justloadit

> There is a company that repairs Apple products, screens etc for i phones, mini's etc etc in Sandton at a fraction of the cost. So this def makes me a happy chappy as I am also quite rough on phones


Care to share their details?

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## HR Solutions

Platinum Repairs 0860-044-584

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Justloadit (02-May-13)

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## ians

If you are happy with your phone and haven't noticed the defect, good for you. I have never stated that the iphone is a kak phone, merely that the phones I have checked have the defect and all I want is Apple to either send me a phone which doesn't have the defect or a software upgrade, instead I get responses like my standards are too high, I should return the product and request a refund. 

I have been looking at a sony xperia go, IP 67 rated dust and water resistant, no need to fit a cover.

I have decided I no longer want to own a phone with a defect out the box, Apple doesn't have a solution so now I need to find out if I can cancel my contract with Telkom and return the iphone?

The reason for cancelling the contract: 

1/ Apple cannot provide me with a iphone 5 which doesn't have a defect out the box 

2/ They don't have a solution to the defect. 

The question is, am I within my rights?

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## adrianh

I think that you may have a problem if all the phones work like that and you are one of few that consider it to be a defect. I think that Telkom and Apple would simply say that the other 20 million customers are satisfied with their phones and that defect is actually a feature.

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## ians

15 minutes after I posted the thread indicating that I have had enough and will be returning the phone, I received an SMS from Telkom indicating that they are aware of the problem, given me a reference number and must return the phone for repairs.

Adrian, unfortunately I am not part of a flock, the defect was shown to numerous people at Telkom, including management and they all agreed that there is a defect and the slide/tap/switch whatever you want to call it is not aligned with the picture you see on the touch screen as I showed them. Hence the reason they replaced the phone the first time, "out of the box failure" They are aware of the problem on the new phone they gave me as I did return to the shop the following day and indicated that the brand new phone had the same problem. I also indicated to the people at Apple in Gateway that there was a problem with the phone including the ones on display and the technician phones, but as indicated you don't complain we don't fix, but indicate that they could send mine in for repairs. Not forgetting at first it was my finger, the stylus, process time, etc , etc.

Call me what you like I have decided that I do not want to waste R9000 on a defective product, if 30 million people are prepared to accept it, that's fine by me. Everyone is telling me all smart phones have their pros and cons, that's also fine if people are prepared to accept sub standard then that is their business. I will go back to using my R149 which i have had for 3 years, never missed a call, never dropped a call, never had to replace a sim card due to no service caused by carrier upgrades from iTunes, never had to reset the phone due to no service, never had a screen freeze, never had a battery drainage issues and when it comes to the apple iphone 5 the list just keeps on going............and on.

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## ians

Back to the question if they cannot supply me with a defect free phone (or as Adrian calls it a phone feature I am not happy with), can I cancel the contract tomorrow?

The contract is 13 days old and the second phone is will be 6 days old tomorrow.

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## ians

http://htpub.blogspot.com/2013/04/8-...ed-due-to.html

Seems like I am not the only person returning my iphone.

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## HR Solutions

Telekom are very good at responding to complaints reported in their twitter account (believe it or not ) . Try it and see what they say. They normally resolve a twitter complaint within 24 hrs.

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## ians

If you Plug your iphone 5 into your PC and connect to iTunes this morning you will find an upgrade from IOS 6.1.3 to 6.1.4, I am waiting for it to download and upgrade, to see if it has addressed the problem.

The update is more than 3 hours, depending on how fast your internet connection is.

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## Blurock

I have come to the conclusion that I do not need a smartphone. I do not have to keep up with the Joneses and be exposed to all the expensive risks associated with smartphones. I don't have to twitter, facebook or dance in the streets.

I now also realise that I do not have to instantly respond to my e-mails and that I can attend to that in a more focused way, early in the morning or at night. If urgent, I can slip in a minute or two at lunch time, but I can not respond to your mail while I am in a meeting and I also cannot take your call while dealing with clients or writing up an important document. These distractions will no longer bother me and I will be more focused in my business, attending to clients directly.

I have also cancelled my contract where I paid 1.65 per minute and have switched to Cell C prepaid where I now pay 99c per minute, but on per second billing. Vodacom prepaid is R2.65 per minute. The cost of my calls for 200 minutes have dropped from R330 to R198, a saving of R132, which can go towards buying my next phone (which will not be a smartphone). 

I picked up the idea of responding to emails once a day from Richard Branson. If it works for him, it can work for me. :Wink:

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## ians

Blurock you need to look at what is important to you.

For me I need a few basics, 

A phone with a 5 to 8 meg camera, so that I don't have to carry a camera around for my work or fishing,

Whatsapp, a cheap way keep in contact with staff members on site, be part of groups for security reasons in our area so I know what is happening and where the crime is taking place, family who live all over the world,fishing updates, and because not every one has a blackberry, so at least everyone can keep in contact for a small fee.

memory to hold 500 contacts

A small keypad phone, with decent size screen, so you don't spend 30 % of the time on the phone getting functions to activate, from having to swipe or tap...tap...tap  numerous times.

A phone without predictive text or can be switched off, so you don't look a right fool when sending messages.

ip67 dust and water resistant rating would just be an added bonus, like the Sony xperia go, some of the construction people I work with have rated this phone, only downfall, sound quality on the speaker, but considering it is ip 67 rated it doesn't surprise me.

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## ians

3 1/2 hours later, updated to IOS 6.1.4, phone still has the defect, now to cancel the contract with Telkom.

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## ians

I have a brand new phone they have given me out of goodwill which was also identified as being defective and Telkom have acknowledged the fault on the phone I handed in.

They have sent away the first phone to let the technicians identify the problem and attempt to repair it or at least come up with an explanation or solution.

They have requested I send them an email and list all the defects I have found on the phone, which I will do over the weekend.

The question is how long do I have before I can no longer turn back.

A Replacement phone is no longer an option as all iphone 5 seem to have the same defect, even brand new out the box , so where to from here.

Can I cancel the contract and for how long can I wait before I can no longer cancel the contract, 7 days or 6 months?

Can I request a different brand product to the same value, which is going to be an issue because iphone is the most expensive product on the market?

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## HR Solutions

I would think 7 days.

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## ians

Looks like the iphone 5 will go into the bottom draw and be written off as just another bad experience using the services of a big company.

Some say why cant I just live with the defect, well its like talking to a women who has a white t shirt on with no bra and she has been sweating a little it hard to look her in the eye.

At least one good thing will come of it, it can be a R9000 tax write off.

So lets see f the Sony xperia has to offer.

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## Justloadit

Sell your iphone on one of the internet auction sites.

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## ians

> In any circumstance, your contract is with Telkom and not Apple.
> Where a product carries a guarantee, that guarantee is in addition to the automatic 6 months afforded by the CPA. 
> Customer is entitled to the repair, replace or refund at any stage within the first 6 months where the product is faulty.


And what if every product you take out the box has the same defect, how long do I have to cancel the contract?

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## ians

I have noticed Wendy Knowler is staying out of this battle(she has not responded to any of my emails), I think when it comes to cell phone providers, contracts and issues, the CPA is not helping much. 

After sitting at Vodacom during my mates renewal process I realised they tie you up pretty good and make sure they make you put pen to paper on every aspect to cover themselves, there is not only one signature on the contract.

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## HR Solutions

Why does it have to be a write off.  Sell it , it's not difficult !

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## Blurock

> Blurock you need to look at what is important to you.


Agreed. Keep it simple. Long hours does not bother me at all, but no longer being on a treadmill is bliss.   :Wink:

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## Dave A

> And what if every product you take out the box has the same defect, how long do I have to cancel the contract?


Did you got to them, or did they contact you first?

Section 16.3 of the CPA:



> A consumer may rescind a transaction resulting from any direct marketing without reason or penalty, by notice to the supplier in writing, or another recorded manner and form, within five business days after the later of the date on which- 
> 
> a)the transaction or agreement was concluded; or
> 
> b)the goods that were the subject of the transaction were delivered to the consumer.


 :Hmmm:  Either way you're probably toast.

Section 20.2 allows for 10 business days, but might also be problematic as there are a fairly complex set of requirements to be met.

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## ians

The conclusion:

When you decided to get a smart phone on a contract, make sure you read and understand what is discussed during the signing process. Use the phone as much as you can in the first 7 days, if you don't like it take it back, ifr it has any scratches dents or whatever don't accept it.

Wrap the phone completely at least for the first 7 days, put a rubber cover on it and put it into a sock just in case, because if it has so much as a tiny dent or scratch on the case you will not be able to claim "out the box failure" and more important don't spill you coffee on it or drop it in the pool, unless its a sony xperia.

If you google any smart phone product you will find there is some issue or other with all of them, the days of getting products which work as they advertise are over, when it comes to cell phones providers they are a law unto themselves and everyone wants one defective or not. For example all iphone 5 have a defect where the top buttons don't line up with what you see on the touch screen, chances are if you have big fingers or use your thumb it will not affect you, or like me know where the switch is located so you can tap in the right place every time and get as response, you either live with it or change product, because they haven't come up with a solution yet.

If you decide to buy an iphone,What ever you don't don't go into a room full of computer geeks and mention the word apple, it is like standing up in church and swearing, I can still hear the word android echoing as I left the room.

If you don't own other apple products, and don't intend buying apple products, think a little before you invest in the iphone 5, you are locked in the apple circle, it will be pretty much be a stand alone item in your network of electronics, other product are not compatible with IOS and apple, you can get apps free or at a small fee to work the other apps like whatsapp, google maps etc, Google has apps and some which do pretty much what apple apps can do, so there is no need for icloud, imessage etc. 

Memory in the phone, is not a big issue for me as there are many other forms of storing,uploading or downloading pics videos etc and other data.

The manufacturing quality of the phone is good, it looks good and the screen is nice and clear, and it is simple to use, but that's about all I can say for the phone for now, if they sort out the alignment issue with the touch screen I might take it out the drawer and start using it again.

there are many other issues with the phone, just to mention a few  like battery drainage, which you can save battery by switching off apps etc, screen freezing which you can overcome by resetting the phone, no service issues, which you can apparently fix if you switch off LTE and configure the phone, I hear this is only issues with Vodacom. (I assume 8ta is part of Vodacom so if you have a Telkom mix will affect you) you cannot do carrier updates from iTunes if you are with 8ta, it will block your service and you will need to replace your sim card.

Battery life on the iphone5 is also not one of its strong points, with all the apps off, on a normal day if you don't charge it everyday, chances are pretty good that you will need to find a charger during the following day.

If you are hands on kind of person like myself, unless you get a life proof case which is snow/dust/water and snow resistant , you likely to void your warranty within the first week because it is definitely not scratch /dust/snow/or shock resistant, nor designed for people who get out and do stuff. 

Personally i am very disappointed in the iphone5 and wish I had done some research before I signed the deal with Telkom, my mistake and a very expensive one at that, for them to allow the phone to leave the factory with such a simple defect, indicates that either they where in a hurry to launch it and just never got around to fixing it, or the it was a simple mistake they didn't detect, which I would find hard to believe considering how much research and millions of dollars were spent designing the box. 

I thought buying a brand name like Apple which was suppose to be the best on the market would not need hours of research, but unfortunately with all the new technology available out there, you need to do research and decide what it is you need or what your intention are for the future, because if you don't and you buy a Samsung tablet and an iphone 5 you cannot enjoy the networking features these product offer when it comes to integrating your electronic in your home or business. Just like blackberry, not everyone has bbm, so you find even if you have a blackberry you still have to load whatsapp to keep in contact. but if you don't own a blackberry you cannot be part of the bbm groups.


Please feel free to comment or correct any info I have posted, I am not a computer fundi or phone wizard so the info might not be 100 % correct and I have only had to endue this nightmare with the iphone 5 for 2 weeks, so there could be lots that I have missed or been misinformed about reading replies on the internet.

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Dave A (05-May-13)

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## ians

Dave the biggest problem is not the fact that the product has a once off "out the box failure", the issue here is even if every 6 days I return the phone and get a new one which I am entitled to, every single iphone 5 has the defect even if it is brand new.

I hear that if you have a cell phone fixed more than 3 times for the same issue, the carrier is suppose to give you a new phone, it is not going to help if Telkom give me a new phone unless Apple have fixed the defect, that's why I now want to cancel the contract, surely I have the right, it was 14 days ago that I signed the contract with Telkom. It is just unfortunately for Telkom that they got caught up in this Apple product mess. 

I don't fell I am asking too much and I also don't believe my standards are too high, it is a simple defect which requires a simple upgrade or it is as simple as cancelling the contract  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## ians

Some useless information...Apple looses market share amongst muggers, too.

Muggers are stealing more Samsung phones than iphones. Police have noticed a sharp increase in the theft of the galaxy line because more people are walking around with them (according to business insider)  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## HR Solutions

Maybe muggers don't dig that push button / slide function thingie either  :Smile:

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## ians

You never know, I think it has more to do with supply and demand, they cant dump the iphone, never mind sell it because people want the galaxy instead  :Wink:

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## ians

Out of the blue today I get a call from Telkom, informing that my 2 day old phone which was replaced with a new phone is back from the service centre "repaired". 

Apple at Gateway informed me that the phone could be sent away and the touch screen recalibrated, but according to Apple USA, you cannot recalibrate the iphone5 screen, so I was interested to see the results of the repair and read the report, unfortunately it is not repaired and there is no report and still has the same defect.

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## HR Solutions

I received my I phone 5 on Monday  :Smile:   :Smile:  
Very happy with it.  It is very similar to my old I phone 4S, but the bigger screen is a big advantage for us moving on with eyesite problems  :Wink:

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## ians

if you are using your thumb to operate the touch screen or touch the bottom of the switch you wont even know there is a defect. if you use a stylus like I do, go settings cellular data then tap in the middle of the switch and you will see nothing happens unless you touch the bottom line of the switch, normally it works every time if you tap the bottom left corner. Same thing with whatsapp, if you go to chats, tap edit then go below the line to broadcast message in the block just below edit and tap in the broadcast message you will see you don't have to tap done because it works in broadcast message, that is 2 of the many problems. 

I hope you are not with 8ta or Vodacom, because if you are, watch what happens when you sync the phone with iTunes. Don't let me put you off the iphone if you like it or a re a die hard Apple fan have all the Apple devices like ipads etc and not experiencing the problems I have with the phone, good luck I hope you enjoy it.

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## HR Solutions

lol thanks ians.  yes I have been an apple fan for a while and have the mini as well.  I know about your "problem" It was the same with the 4S, but yes I do enjoy it. And no I am not with 8ta or Vodacom.  I am with Nashua Mobile, they give me excellent service.

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## DeonT

I am not quite sure whether or not this is a thread about the application of the CPA on defective products or about the perceived problem Ians has with the iPhone 5 screen and a stylus. Looks like it might be both. ;-)

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## ians

Which part is not applicable to the CPA? 

The phone was taken out the box, the phone had a defect, the screen is not aligned with the switch at the top of the touch screen, I was told I could not replace the phone because Apple products are not covered by our laws in this country because Apple supplies products defect free.

They were given a choice either give me a new phone or a letter stating that Apple product are not covered by our laws, the phone was replaced and sent away for a report. 

I received a brand new phone, took it home and noticed that the phone had the same defect, screen doesn't align with the switches at the top of the screen, I was told that it could not be a batch problem because the new phone was supplied from a new batch.

I then informed management that I would check with other iphones to see if they had the same problem, so I went to Apple in Gateway, picked up one of the iphones on display and noticed the same problem, I asked one of the sale people if they knew about the problem and what they were going to do about it, I was told that they would speak to their technical department, who response was sent via the sales person, "the phone would need to be sent back for recalibration". I then went to another company in Gateway which repairs Apple products and enquired about the problem. They contacted the "specialist in iphones" who could give us an answer either.

I went onto the Apple support website logged numerous email complaints about the problem and also posted a thread with regards to the problem I was told by one of the members that you cannot  recalibrate a touch screen on the iphone.

I then received a call from Telkom a couple of days ago to inform me that the phone was back form their technical department and the phone was fixed, nothing has changed the phone is still has the same defect.

The big question here is how are Apple getting away with supplying us with defective products in this country considering I am told we are one of the best protected consumers in the world.

What are my rights as a customer to claim for all my time wasted, purchased made to iTunes, and a defective product, which is not in my best interest to change due to the closed IOS system, IF it was an android product I could have just move away for the iphone and continued using another product. which also uses android. 

By the way, we have just discovered the iphone 4 has the same problem, it was pointed out to me by one of my lady customers, who thought it was just the way she was sliding/ tapping, but because she has little finger like a stylus experiences the same problem. I have shown her how to overcome the problem and where to tap or slide, now she doesn't have to tap tap tap or slide slide slide.

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## ians

Perceived problem or real problem, now that is an interest statement.

In the beginning I thought it was just because I was not familiar with a touch screen and as someone pointed out to me it could just be because I am new to a touch screen, that's when I decided to do some more research and asked a lot of question and went around testing a variety of iphones, spoke to technicians who work on the phones, to make sure that I had all my ducks in a row before I started posting information about my perceived problem.

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## HR Solutions

I think he meant that your problem is not everyone's problem therefore it is a perceived problem.

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## ians

And I thought my problems with Telkom where over, or should I say I have accepted that the iphone 5 has a defect and not even Apple themselves can rectify it, so move on, 

then I get a call today to inform me that the R2000 bill they sent me was a mistake and the amount the debited my account would be reversed as they have received my complaint and are aware of the problem, but now they have made an even bigger mistake and unfortunately I will be billed R9000 for the iphone which I must then go to the closest Telkom store and fill out a complaint so that they can sort out the problem. My next question to the person, if you are aware of the problem why are you even phoning me to tell me about it, why do I have to wait till my account is debited before I must go and fill out a complaint, WHY NOT SORT THE F.......N PROBLEM OUT BEFORE THEY SEND THE BILL TO ME...EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE BUT SURELY PEOPLE AT TELKOM ARE NOT THAT DUMB.

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## IanF

> And I thought my problems with Telkom where over, ...... BUT SURELY PEOPLE AT TELKOM ARE NOT THAT DUMB.


Isn't this a problem with most big company employees they don't care and it is hard to fire them!
 :Banghead:

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## ians

So my day gets more interesting, I want to check my balance on my sim card for my iphone which is on the Telkom mix, my understanding is that 8ta is the carrier for Telkom cellphones, not that simple.

I log onto 8ta to register, so that I can check my balance while my sim card is in my laptop, without having to remove the sim card and install it into the cellphone, 

doesn't work, go to the 8 ta support chat and log on, 

they tell me that I am not registered with 8ta, but I explain to the lady that I have a cell phone from telkom, so she tells me to load a number and they will call me, which I do

I tap enter and 2 seconds later my cellphone rings, its the lady from 8ta, I explain everything to her again, she tells me sorry she cant help because my number is not registered on the 8ta network, it is, but it isn't because it is registered under Telkom not 8ta, by now I am confused, 

I have a cell phone with Telkom, 8ta is the carrier for Telkom cell phones but my number reflects on the system but I cannot use the 8ta facilities nor can I reload airtime etc through 8ta,

so they transfer me between departments, to another 8 ta agent, but he isn't an 8ta agent he works for Telkom mobile, 

he tells 8ta is no longer, they have changed 8ta to Telkom mobile, so now 8ta is Telkom mobile, so that is simple then, I can use Telkom mobile to register and view my account on line, but  I cant because I am not part of Telkom mobile (old 8ta) I am Telkom mix which is a part of Telkom mobile but not because have a Telkom mix contract,

you confused yet?

so when my airtime runs out, I can top up at Telkom mobile, no I cant because I am Telkom mix not telkom mobile, but Telkom mobile is Telkom cell phone carrier, but Telkom mix it is not part of Telkom mobile, it is but you cant use the facilities of Telkom mobile because I have a Telkom mix contract and not a Telkom mobile contract, 

anyway I am confused.

the bottom line is Telkom mix is not part of Telkom mobile (8ta)( they are, but not)and there is no facility to register on Telkom mobile (8ta)if you have a Telkom mix contract, I have to remove the sim card and put it into the cell phone and dial *188# which is the Telkom mobile (8ta) number to check balances.

now I know why I am sitting with R9000 phone in my draw in my office and still use my R149 pre paid number for my business   :EEK!:  there is nothing complicated about it, the phone rings I answer and say hello, if I want to check my balance I dial *141# and I get a balance, if I run out of airtime I log onto my favourite bank (standard bank) and I go to prepaid and load airtime, it may cost a little more but at the end of the day for simplicity you can beat it.

If I had to add up all the hours wasted on this Telkom mix contract and this defect product from Apple (iphone5 ) I could have paid cash for 2 Samsung S4 on prepaid, with none of the hassle. :Banghead: 

Then just to rub salt in the wound, Telkom mobile has reduced their rates to 95cents anytime to any network, but because I have signed a 24 months contract with Telkom mix and not Telkom mobile i don't qualify for reduction, I must pay R1.50 per minute.

So it would pay me to remove my Telkom mix sim card and use a Telkom mobile pay as you go sim card to qualify for the 95c rate instead of the R1.50. So I block my number which is a problem because most people don't answer calls from private numbers, so you first have to send a message to tell people you are going to call, what a mission, just stick to my mtn prepaid phone and number.

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## Justloadit

Eish, Ian, you attract trouble  :Smile: 

If they use a debit order on your account, If I am not mistaken you have 48 hours to instruct your bank to reverse the Debit order. It will cost you some Rands, but may be cheaper than going in and filling complaint forms.

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## HR Solutions

Lol it does sound like you attract problems.
Sometimes the cheaper option is not the best option !

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## ians

It has nothing to do with attracting trouble, it is all about not accepting the sub standard crap offered to me.

If a builder builds a wall and it is not straight by the time he arrives in the morning he will find a pile of bricks where the wall was, SIMPLE all I want is a straight wall,  most people wouldn't even notice the wall is not straight, its not that I attract trouble it that people just accept the shit that gets dished at them.

It is the same with my business, an example, I left a team to install piping in a factory, after instructed them of exactly what I wanted, SIMPLE just install the job as per instruction, got back in the afternoon the pipe was sagging slightly between the saddles about 5 mm, I wouldn't accept that in my factory so I pulled it all off the wall and made them redo the whole job. I would put money on it that the customer would have been happy to accept the half ass job.

The attitude just seems to be well we live in Africa, we must just roll over and accept it, and people wonder why things happen the way they do.

When you watch people sitting in ques, they sit with an absolute dead look on their faces and just accept that that is how it is, the fact that they have to wait 2 hours in a que doesn't bother them, my thing is, if you have a que 2 hours long everyday at the counters, do something about it, get more staff, fire the management and sort it out, not in this country, people just bend over and let everyone have turns, it is disgraceful.  :Mad:  in this country instead of improving the service they install more benches and a TV and why because they can get away with it  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

12 months to wait for pre paid meter  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

It was just a SIMPLE trouble free request: 

A defect free iphone5, they cant supply, because Apple doesn't have a solution to the problem yet,

A contract which was added to my Telkom account so that I get one bill every month, and deal with one company, no need for rica and all the crap that comes with purchasing a cellphone, they could even get that right.

please explain to me where the attracting trouble fits in?

That's why for many years I have stuck with MTN prepaid, KISS keep it simple stupid.

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## ians

HR, by the way there is nothing cheaper about the Telkom mix, it was more of a convenience thing for me, one of the reason I decided not to port my number from MTN, I didn't want any crap.

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## HR Solutions

Well now I is more of an inconvenience hey  :Wink:

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## SSS100

Interesting is that it's not just the iPhone, blackberry Z10 and vodka com combination is just the same....pure rubbish

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## Blurock

> It has nothing to do with attracting trouble, it is all about not accepting the sub standard crap offered to me.


Agreed, Ian. Sub standard products or service should never be accepted, because once you do, it becomes the new standard.   :Yes:

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ians (09-Jun-13)

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## IanF

Ians 
Since you like the cutting edge here is the phone for you only $860 and a glass front that can only be cut with a diamond, plus it can also be a desktop. 
Here is Ubuntu Edge.

Seriously this looks like a great project is anyone going to try this?
 :Cool:

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Dave A (23-Jul-13), vieome (23-Jul-13)

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## vieome

> Ians 
> Since you like the cutting edge here is the phone for you only $860 and a glass front that can only be cut with a diamond, plus it can also be a desktop. 
> Here is Ubuntu Edge.
> 
> Seriously this looks like a great project is anyone going to try this?


I will definetly get one of these, being dreaming of something like that for a long time. Linux is the way to go, the people supporting free open source, are not as greedy, as the other fruits- apple , blackberry etc and generally provide a higher quality

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## ians

I see Apple is getting desperate they are trying to unload bonds 17 billion dollars worth.

This could be why they are stalling to launch IOS 7, investors are nervous. Apple was the leader but I think the others are catching up fast.

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## vieome

Microsoft shares drop as well/
I always wonder if we will hit a zero point with technology, were no further improvements are needed on the quality of phone in ones pocket. On the one hand the big players have always keep people buying, with selling new programs apps, that need new and improved hardware to work. Do we eventually get to a point where people are satisfied with the technology in their homes or pockets? I understand there will always be ostentatious goods, but surely eventually the agents in the market will reach a satisfied point. It is almost like the big players are hacking the agents to always pay a certain price for a phone, and to always buy a new phone. The big players are almost like the washing powder makers, where new and improved means a new box. 20 years ago washing powder adverts showed their products getting the toughest stains out, and they have  new and improved their products over the years but the products still do what they did in the past. And now we get the same thing from cellphone companies, soon an upgrade with simply be the shape of the phone.

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## Dave A

> Seriously this looks like a great project is anyone going to try this?


Really tempting. If there were any of the $600 slots left, I think I might have signed up right there on the spot!

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## IanF

> Really tempting. If there were any of the $600 slots left, I think I might have signed up right there on the spot!


Dave and I thought you would choose the $10 000 one. Your own numbered ubuntu edge.

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Chrisjan B (23-Jul-13)

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## Blurock

> The big players are almost like the washing powder makers, where new and improved means a new box. 20 years ago washing powder adverts showed their products getting the toughest stains out, and they have  new and improved their products over the years but the products still do what they did in the past. And now we get the same thing from cellphone companies, soon an upgrade with simply be the shape of the phone.


Customers get fooled so easily and the cell phone companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Instead of looking at what we pay per second, we'd rather get blinded by the gadgets on a phone. Half of which we will never use anyway! :Stupid:

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## vieome

> Customers get fooled so easily and the cell phone companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Instead of looking at what we pay per second, we'd rather get blinded by the gadgets on a phone. Half of which we will never use anyway!


That is true, then again I think that apply to politics as well, blinded by the campaign many vote for wrong leader. When it comes to existing technology I prefer to see how I can make existing tech work for me. I wonder what the average amount is in a lifetime that people will spend on unnecessary upgrades. If the typical grader spends R5000 per year, my advice hit the  ▌▌Pause button before upgrade, and the reason that is wise is because big business tends to rush products to markets with the intention of taking advantage of the UPGRADERS.

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## HR Solutions

> Customers get fooled so easily and the cell phone companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Instead of looking at what we pay per second, we'd rather get blinded by the gadgets on a phone. Half of which we will never use anyway!


This is true, but sometimes it does not matter what you pay per second, because at the end of the day you might pay a little more for something but you benefit on the other hand.  My I phone and my I pad are synced to my computer, therefore when I leave the office I still have access to my work via my I pad whether I am in CT or JHB.  If my I pad is perhaps in my car then my phone is always on me whereby I will get reminders or things.  And you can regulate the 3 items so that you do not have to get all information on all three if you don't want to.  How often are you out of the office in the past and you think of something, but it is at work on the work computer ?
Just my thoughts on it.  I know that this does not apply to everyone, but each to their own.

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## ians

End of the month is a good time to use up what is left of your adsl data available before it expires, so you let it runs. I normally have about 2 gigs left to use up, so I download movies and let all the electronics update.

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## IanF

@dave
I see they have some edges a $625 now. Tempting.

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## Blurock

> This is true, but sometimes it does not matter what you pay per second, because at the end of the day you might pay a little more for something but you benefit on the other hand.  My I phone and my I pad are synced to my computer, therefore when I leave the office I still have access to my work via my I pad whether I am in CT or JHB.  If my I pad is perhaps in my car then my phone is always on me whereby I will get reminders or things.  And you can regulate the 3 items so that you do not have to get all information on all three if you don't want to.  How often are you out of the office in the past and you think of something, but it is at work on the work computer ?
> Just my thoughts on it.  I know that this does not apply to everyone, but each to their own.


It matters very much what you pay per second. My previous contract at Vodacom was billed at R1.65 PER MINUTE. I now pay 99c and am being billed per second with Cell C and I get free minutes as well. You can do your own calculation on the cost of an average of 100 to 150 minutes per month!

You can still have all your gadgets and syncs etc, just refuse to pay the higher fees for data and air time. http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...f-the-poor-mps

Unless we stand together to fight corporate greed, MTN and Vodacom will continue to rip us off. I believe that even Cell C can lower their tariffs, but they are by far the cheapest at the moment. Sevice? That's the first reason why I changed from Vodacom!

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## HR Solutions

> It matters very much what you pay per second


I did say "sometimes it does not matter".  And that is because sometimes TO ME it really does not matter.  What I have in the Iphone 5 and the I pad mini suits me down to the ground for my purposes.





> I know that this does not apply to everyone, but each to their own.


At the end of the day you have to way up what the different service providers linked to the package linked to the hardware you have linked to the price you pay what is best for you.

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## ians

Telkom mobile is down to 75c, clearly you get what you pay for. Unfortunately if you have signed a contract recently with Telkom mobile you still pay the R1.50 for the crap network.

Speeds of as low as 0.53 Mbps even on the iphone 5

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## HR Solutions

> Speeds of as low as 0.53 Mbps even on the iphone 5


I have used my I Phone 5 in a lot of places from CT, JHB and various countries overseas.  I have never really had a problem with speed. But you also need to remember that speed is more dependant on the service provider you are using at the time eg a Wi-Fi connection in a hotel or normal cellular data.  The speed very seldom has anything to do with the actual I Phone itself. It is just the tool for you to find the right place to connect to and with todays technology you can connect to a free Wi-Fi in plenty of places with no hassle.

The extra's is what really grabs me eg the gps that you can use almost everywhere, the syncing of photographs with other devices, the business applications etc etc.  I am sure that there are other devices that do it as well, that is why I originally said everyone to their own and I am happy to pay for something to get something worthwhile.

A lot of people often complain about call price.  I can talk from the UK to JHB or JHB to CT for example via Facetime for as long as I want and it is for free ! It is quick with not much delay at all.

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## thirockets

My iPhone 5 is stil in good share but it becomes lags after upgrading to iOS 10. so everybody be careful about the update.

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## ians

An update...my iphone is still working...had to replace the battery recently and after all these years...i finally smashed the screen when it fell off the workbench.

As much as i complained about this phone in the beginning...i have to give it credit for lasting this long...i have abused this phone beyond its limits and it still takes the best pics.

I plan to upgrade to an iphone SE soon.

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