# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Durban protests spiralling out of control?

## Dave A

Absolute chaos in my neck of the woods today.

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## Dave A

Protest action:- Please be aware that all the informal settlements in Effingham, Avoca, Seacowlake and Kenville are protesting , throwing stones at cars and blocking roads. SAPS is aware of this and are taking appropriate action 
_from Greenwood Park SAPS CPF on Facebook_

Also - Municipal strike action is affecting the Durban City Centre, and there are reports of xenophobic attacks going down in the Isipingo area.

I never thought I'd be considering doing this ever again, but perhaps time to take out SASRIA cover?

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## Dave A

Just 200m up the road from my office -

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## IanF

Wow that is hectic, plus these protests do spread sometimes so this is worrying.
Sterkte Dave

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## bones

there has to come a time where violence  
must be considered as attacks and not 
be protected as "acting out" or getting 
"the word out" how many people must 
get hurt before it becomes criminal

this is not peaceful assembly

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## Justloadit

It may be that we have reached a point of restless supporters of the current government, who only know of destruction as a means to change, instead of using the ballot box.

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## ians

It turned into a feeding frenzy. Smash and crab as the fools sit in their cars and wait patiently for it to end. People watch as others are robbed right in front of them. There is no longer Buffel and Casper loads of SADF or UN peace keepers coming to save the day. Wake up people this is the reality of living in Africa.

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## bones

> It turned into a feeding frenzy. Smash and crab as the fools sit in their cars and wait patiently for it to end. People watch as others are robbed right in front of them. There is no longer Buffel and Casper loads of SADF or UN peace keepers coming to save the day. Wake up people this is the reality of living in Africa.


and one of the many reasons why 
i am going away hopefully next 
year

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## Dave A

There seems little doubt our problems are escalating rather than going away  :Frown:

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## Blurock

What about the Xenophobia. Who is stoking the fire? Why is there a country wide protest against "foreign" statues and immigrants?
I have seen some horrific photos and videos of people being hacked to death and children tied to burning tyres in the past few days.
This barbarism and anarchy is being instigated by people with a political motive.  Has Bob's visit anything to do with what is happening now?
Why are the so-called leaders of our country not taking decisive action?

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## msmoorad

while its true that the violence were seeing is not the way to go about it, the truth is that theres just too many foreigners here.
both legal & illegal

many of the legal ones are not really legal since they bribed corrupt Home Affairs officials in order to get documents that they dont really qualify for.

whats happening now is that many local criminals are joining in these xenophobic attacks just to loot, rob & steal.

the real culprits are our ANC govt who opened the doors to everyone despite having lots of problems here that we need to sort out first.

for all these foreigners, SA is a very attractive venue since were the wealthiest & most developed African country.
very few foreigners are real refugees.
they lie about the conditions back home:
eg, there may be violence etc in one part of their country but their area is safe - they see it as an opportunity to come here & ask for asylum & our govt has no way to ascertain whether they are lying or not since their countries dont have proper records etc of who is who & where they live...

then theres the organised crime syndicates who bribe the police who allow them to operate freely.
the worst are the Nigerians & the Point Rd area in Durban is filled with them

im hearing that theres altogether close to 10 million foreigners here
that places a huge burden on our country-even without taking foreign criminals into account.

as much as i hate to see innocent people being brutally killed, it seems that the govt wont act unless things reach the level were seeing now.

my view is this:
i wish everyone all of the best but unfortunately, SA cant accommodate everyone, so these foreigners must leave. all of them.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

> What about the Xenophobia. Who is stoking the fire? Why is there a country wide protest against "foreign" statues and immigrants?
> I have seen some horrific photos and videos of people being hacked to death and children tied to burning tyres in the past few days.
> This barbarism and anarchy is being instigated by people with a political motive.  Has Bob's visit anything to do with what is happening now?
> Why are the so-called leaders of our country not taking decisive action?


The video I suspect that you speak of is not a xenephobia incident. It was in March. A 30yr old was killed after a bar altercation.
The community then attacked teh 5 people. 2 died, 2 are still in hospital

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

I am intrigued at the refugee law experts.
Please take note that in terms of the Refugee Act and international conventions a person can be a refugee where there is public disorder in ANY part of the country.
In other words, if I am living in an unaffected area, and there is public disorder in any other part, a person is a refugee.
As to most people are not refugees, again I am intrigued by your expertsie. Yes, there are people who are not and exploit it.
If I may explain why, no person can apply for any immigration permit if they are not illegally present. Therefore, they apply for asylum to become legally present, they then apply for work permits or whatever.
I am happy to conced that large amounts of people then use corruption to get these permits.
I have previously advised government that the immigration act should be changed so that if you have an asylum permit you cannot apply for an immigration permit unless there is a spousla or child relationhsip. Alas, government failed to make this simple legislative change.

To return to refugees - The DRC, Burundi, Rwanda, Eritrea all have public disorder, as ruled by our courts.
Ethiopia is considered one of the worst human rights places in the world. It is kept quite, in all probability because of American support due to the strategic position.
Kenya is also now a problem area as is Nigeria.
Bangladesh is also arguably a public disorder country.
There is strong argument that so is Pakistan.

The refugee process is so biased and flawed that it is a serious problem.
In fact every appeal between 2007 and 2013 is unlawful as the board was unlawfully constituted.
I am not aware of any review that has not ruled against the state. 
In 2010 the UN statistics show that 67% of Ethiopian s receivved refugee status. IN SA only 27% got. Remeber the 67% includes SA figures and in reality it is 80%, that difference in statistic already points to a flaw. Since 2010 it will have decreased in fact in 2014 only 2 people got refugee status in South Africa, one of whom was Syrian.
As to undocumented, that also stems from Home affairs actions.
The Durban refugee centre refuses to accept applications from the Asian continent (Pakistan, India etc). Again I have raised this issue, not only is it unlawful, but it means that we have undocumented people in our country, a serious security issue. No application can be refused, what needs to occur is proper asseesment.

I am intrugued as to where the figure of 10 million foreigners is derived from.
What seems to be missed is that as much as there is talk of anti foreigners, if this was so why do we see relatively little action against Chinese and the Asian continent? The action seems only to be directed towards the African continent.

Yes, there is abuse. Yes, there is an abbundance of foreigners who utilise resources.
However, the government is in the position to address the issues on the African continent, but refuses. African leaders are allowing chaos which results in people fleeing here. We, as a country are entitled to put pressure on them, but do not, probably something to do with mining.

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Citizen X (18-Apr-15), Dave A (16-Apr-15)

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## vieome

South Africa often endorses rigged elections in other african states, and then is surprised that the people from those states end up here. 

However lets not forget the thousands of South Africans who are immigrating to England, Ireland and Austrialia, how would you feel if they were attacked there. 

If you looting millions what do you care when your subjects are looting a six pack of coke and a bag of chips. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-protests.html

There may be too many foreigners in SA, but the attacks are not justified, if you tolerate this then your children will be next.

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## KimH

> my view is this:
> i wish everyone all of the best but unfortunately, SA cant accommodate everyone, so these foreigners must leave. all of them.


I am a foreigner albeit one that has lived here for 42 years, was educated here, worked and paid taxes here, got married and raised kids here - I am still a foreigner.  You will however be pleased to hear that I'm taking my burdensome self and my family back home later this year.   :Whistling:

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## Dave A

> If you looting millions what do you care when your subjects are looting a six pack of coke and a bag of chips.


Whoever gets away with the looting is the one seen to be in control.

The stakes are - "Who's the boss?"

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## IanF

Now the "foreigners" are fighting back




> Komatipoort - Xenophobic violence has broken out in Mozambique, forcing South Africans to leave the neighbouring country in a hurry, while trucks exporting goods have been grounded.
> 
> Truck driver John Mashiloane, who works for Ngululu Carriers told a News24 correspondent that he was forced to return to South Africa after the truck he was driving was stoned a short distance from the border town of Ressano Garcia.
> 
> "I’m back in South Africa, we have parked our trucks in Komatipoort. When we went into Mozambique in the morning, we saw that traffic was clear and thought it was fine, but just 4km into Mozambique near the Muamba Toll Gate, we found a mob of about 300 people in bakkies who started pelting our trucks with stones and telling us that we are killing their brothers and sisters so we deserve to die too," said Mashiloane


 Full article

Now will the government step up and try get this under control?

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## msmoorad

firstly, the ones ultimately responsible are our ANC govt, who opened the borders & lifted restrictions, which has allowed millions of foreigners to enter the country.
what need was there for the govt to do this?
we have more than enough of our own problems, not to mention our already high crime rates.


its our govt & corrupt officials who have paved the way for so many foreigners to abuse our country.

why should we now attack these foreigners, when instead, we should direct our anger towards the govt?

these foreigners would never have been able to enter our country & if they did, they would never be able to engage in any criminal activity if our govt & our police etc were doing their jobs properly.

why vent our anger & frustration at those who are guilty of nothing more than taking advantage of the opportunity to build a better life for themselves & their families. 
Instead, focus on our ANC govt who have not acted wisely and have allowed things to reach the current situation where we have too many foreigners here.


To KimH:
if we had to look at it that way, then even i am a foreigner.
im referring to those who entered SA after 1994, esp those without proper documents. 

---

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## Blurock

In November 2012 NAFCOC held their annual conference in East London. There were a number of speakers who called on delegates and black people to "take back their townships and not to let shops and buildings to foreigners". They were told to chase the foreigners out of their townships. In March 2015 the Zulu king made a similar statement in a speech to the Pongolo community;




> [W]e talk of people [South Africans] who do not want to listen, who do not want to work, who are thieves, child rapists and house breakers. When foreigners look at them, they will say let us exploit the nation of idiots. As I speak you find their unsightly goods hanging all over our shops, they dirty our streets. We cannot even recognise which shop is which, there are foreigners everywhere. I know it is hard for other politicians to challenge this because they are after their votes. Please forgive me but this is my responsibility, I must talk, I cannot wait for five years to say this. As King of the Zulu Nation I will not keep quiet when our country is led by people who have no opinion. It is time to say something. I ask our government to help us to fix our own problems, help us find our own solutions. We ask foreign nationals to pack their belongings and go back to their countries (loud cheers).

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

The state budgets three times as much money for deporting people as it does for preventing illegal entry.

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## IanF

This is a terrible situation which the ANC government has been caught with their pants down. 
JZ has so many scandals hanging over his head and he seems to be putting in "his" people in all the government departments and SOEs either for his family's gain or to protect himself. 
This has left the government rudderless and the main mission to protect or enrich Zuma. Until this changes we have no hope.
I hope I am wrong with my analysis.

Anyway we can only try and enlighten the majority and hope they change either the government or the ANC leadership.

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## wynn

"Let it ride and they will not write about Nkandla, He He He!"

The press took their collective eye off the ball with the #Rhodes must fall and the Xenophobia reporting which must make a certain resident in the presidential palace very happy.

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## ians

I am still trying to figue out what all the fuss is about. 

The murder rate in this country is around 35 people per day (please feel free to correct this figue). I dont think there have been that many foreigner nationals murdered since the attacks started, yet there is this huge public outcry, social media is a buzz with it. 

My point is are there are people being attacked and murdered everyday in SA. People dont even worry about murders, attacks and gun battles, between police and criminals as in a incident I watched a while back. The driver of a truck warned me to stop, we all stood and watched and took a couple pics. Once it was all over we got back in our cars and carried on with our day as if nothing had happened. You watch people being attacked while stopped at robots, people take pics and post them on social media. You hear of horrific attacks in people homes, were people are burnt and tortured for hours, women are raped, you dont even get to hear about it in the news.   

what so special about these foreigners nationals ?

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## vieome

Who do you class as a foreigner







    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

     Martin Niemöller

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## Blurock

> I am still trying to figue out what all the fuss is about. 
> 
> The murder rate in this country is around 35 people per day (please feel free to correct this figue). I dont think there have been that many foreigner nationals murdered since the attacks started, yet there is this huge public outcry, social media is a buzz with it. 
> 
> My point is are there are people being attacked and murdered everyday in SA. People dont even worry about murders, attacks and gun battles, between police and criminals as in a incident I watched a while back. The driver of a truck warned me to stop, we all stood and watched and took a couple pics. Once it was all over we got back in our cars and carried on with our day as if nothing had happened. You watch people being attacked while stopped at robots, people take pics and post them on social media. You hear of horrific attacks in people homes, were people are burnt and tortured for hours, women are raped, you dont even get to hear about it in the news.   
> 
> what so special about these foreigners nationals ?


Any murder is despicable and cannot be condoned. However, when politicians and self-appointed leaders instigate racial hatred and systematic "cleansing of townships" it is even more despicable. Read Viome's post and the quote from Martin Niemöller.

I would have thought that we have learnt from apartheid and the history of our country. Unfortunately the current government is practicing a more severe form of apartheid than the Nats.

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## vieome

Apart from the fact that the attacks have resulted in the loss of life, we now have a refugee crisis. With everything being connected, we see the rand value has drop by over 20cents since the start of the attacks. Lower rand can mean higher fuel prices, which can result in rise in inflation, and more power cuts. 
So one might think they are not affected by this, but you soon will feel the effects.

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## Blurock

Comments by Max duPreez




> Zwelithini should face the consequences
> 
> 2015-04-21 07:17
> Max du Preez
> 
> Fewer than two out of 10 South Africans see King Goodwill Zwelithini as their king. And yet we taxpayers pay him about R60m per year to keep his bloated household going and he behaves as if he really is the national monarch who is above the law and our constitution.
> 
> South Africans should not simply sweep Zwelithinis reckless statements on foreign nationals, the most obvious trigger of the latest wave of xenophobic attacks, under the carpet. Any influential public figure guilty of such provocative, irresponsible utterances should be forced to face the consequences of his actions.
> 
> ...


We are all accountable for what we do and say. Every action has a reaction. Every deed has a consequence.

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## ians

I hear these attacks have been on the cards for a while already, right down to the question they are asked to identify foreign nation or not. 

I believe there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know.

There is always a positive side to everything, you can be a hero by getting out there and assisting with food, clothing and supplies. If you really brave invite a group to come stay in your back yard.

How many people on this forum have foreigners living in your back yard or outbuilding?

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## Blurock

> I hear these attacks have been on the cards for a while already, right down to the question they are asked to identify foreign nation or not. 
> 
> I believe there is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know.


Correct. I have heard it first hand as far back as Nov 2012. (See post 19)

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