# General Business Category > Scam Alert Forum >  Internet income business verification -  Net Income Solutions. Is it real?

## SSS100

Hi All,
I need help to verify if the below internet busines is real. Has anyone done "investments" with the company. A friend of a friend refered us to it, but I don't understant it
Well, he said i can put in money and the capital stays locked in for 75days, while i get 2% a day!
Net Income Solutions  reg nr 2007/084693/23, The company is owned by Chris Walker in cape town

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## Garf

The company looks real enough, but the 2% a day on investments (representing over 1000% annualised, if compounded daily) follows the rule "if it looks too good to be true,................

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## SSS100

Noted
Has anyone delat with this entity? Please guys, or maybe who wants to try it with me?

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## IanF

> follows the rule "if it looks too good to be true,................


 :Stupid: 
Garf meant in the nicest way.

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## dfsa

That company is a typical HYIP scheme.

Hyips are very risky and mostly pure games (almost like a slot machine paying perhaps 85% of spends made to it, some a whole lot less).
To be able to make any money in them, you have to study them for a while and also have a portion of luck on your side.
Most of them are trying to make you believe they are making money on trading and/or other things, which in fact only a very small % are if any.

Golden rules worth remembering are:
Only spend money you can afford to lose - this one is really important, as your money can be gone forever 2 min. after you make the deposit.

Trust no one

If you find one you like, then get in early and make sure you have your seed money back in your hand before taking any further chances to make profits.
Always be modest about earning.. greed will make you lose it all.

Spread your funds out, putting everything in one place, can leave you high and dry very easily.

Use common sense...! - if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is - famous words -

I think if you apply all of the above, and remember that hyips are nothing but games, no matter what you are being told, then maybe you can at least have some fun playing them. ( this goes for the ones that seem real too, they are very risky! even if they are really trading or betting or whatever it is they say they do.)

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Citizen X (14-Jan-13), Dave A (10-Jan-13), monaknight03 (08-Feb-13)

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## SSS100

I get it gentlemen, thank you for the inputs. and all makes perfect sens, it's funny sometimes how one needs to heat it from other people to make sense of it all, even if the signs are there

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## Nate01

@sss100
I just want to know if you proceeded with net income solutions

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## Justloadit

The supposedly only ones making money are the junkies who play 15 to 20 hours a day and collect points and levels pertaining to a character. 
They then sell the character on a Bid or Buy type of web page to another gamer, who wants to be near the end of the game with all the points collected and whatever comes with it, with out having spent the effort to hone the skills, or who may not have the time to get to this point in the game.

I have heard of ridiculous sums of cash paid for these characters and levels achieved and what ever they have accumulated in the game.

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## SSS100

Well, I tried it and so far it's paying me back. I started wih was I thought i would not lose sleep over it I lost...a small amount of course
and I will be getting the rest of may capital soon, and then I will start making profits and so will not be worried as my capital will be back

But, I'm not sure what Justloadit is talking about, his refering to "play 15 to 20 hours a day and collect points and levels pertaining to a character"
There is no such on the defencex network, I don't do any "play/ing" of any kind and there are no "characters"...please check www.defencex.com

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## Justloadit

> But, I'm not sure what Justloadit is talking about, his refering to "play 15 to 20 hours a day and collect points and levels pertaining to a character"
> There is no such on the defencex network, I don't do any "play/ing" of any kind and there are no "characters"...please check www.defencex.com


I was referring to 


> That company is a typical HYIP scheme.
> 
> Hyips are very risky and mostly pure games (almost like a slot machine paying perhaps 85% of spends made to it, some a whole lot less).
> To be able to make any money in them, you have to study them for a while and also have a portion of luck on your side.
> Most of them are trying to make you believe they are making money on trading and/or other things, which in fact only a very small % are if any.


There are many real time games, in which you collect points, but can not translate into cash, however the points bring prestige and other advantages.

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## SSS100

K, but it seems to be working as I'm making money. And as long as my capital investment is returned i'm happy as i continue to make good extra cash with no risk

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## elle24

> K, but it seems to be working as I'm making money. And as long as my capital investment is returned i'm happy as i continue to make good extra cash with no risk


Hi my mum wants to join this thing. Is it really working? have you gotten your capital back? she is thinking of putting in large sums of money and I don't think that is such a good idea. What is this business really about because I've been to their website and still don't understand

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## SSS100

Hi,
Yes, I got my capital back and I'm enjoying the Defencex thing
Actually, i'm putting in extra
But, I honestly thing one must make up their minds themselves, I did just that. Otherwise, everyone is entitlied to his / her opion and final decision

Regards

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## Sak001

I agree with most of you if you go in you need to go in with what you can afford to loose. I went in with R10 000, which I was going to blow over the festive anyway. I am currently earning R200 a day and I deposit that backto my account immidiately untill I reach R10 000, then I can risk it all

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## Sak001

SSS100, have you reached end of 75 days yet? tell me do you get the money you had put in after 75 days as it is? I'm currently halfway and it looks good

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## flaker

Forgive me guys, this does sound like a 2 way conversation emanating from the same mind :Confused:  Alternatively is it a solicitation for more moneys? No offence intended

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Citizen X (09-Jan-13)

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## Citizen X

> Forgive me guys, this does sound like a 2 way conversation emanating from the same mind Alternatively is it a solicitation for more moneys? No offence intended


I couldn't agree more! :Wink:  It sounds very much like the same person making the reinforcing and encouraging posts! Please tell me that I'm wrong, Please??
@SSS001 are you also Sak001???

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## Dave A

> Forgive me guys, this does sound like a 2 way conversation emanating from the same mind


I advise the background tech info on the posts doesn't support this theory.

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## SSS100

Hi,
I'm SSS001 and NOT Sak001... I have no idea who Sak001 is. I just THINK the following posts were not appropriate:
1. Forgive me guys, this does sound like a 2 way conversation emanating from the same mind Alternatively is it a solicitation for more moneys? No offence intended 
2. I couldn't agree more! It sounds very much like the same person making the reinforcing and encouraging posts! Please tell me that I'm wrong, Please??
@SSS001 are you also Sak001???

You are more than welcome to double check and see if there is a link there

On a lighter note, Yes, I have finished the 75 days and started a new cycle again

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## sanel

My name is sanele, i have been following the convesation abwt net income solution (DeffendanceX)
its changed my life a lot. i just purchised a new car and a house with a money that i have made in this past year. life is all about risk, soon as u live your house.

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## Citizen X

> Hi,
> I'm SSS001 and NOT Sak001... I have no idea who Sak001 is. I just THINK the following posts were not appropriate:
> 1. Forgive me guys, this does sound like a 2 way conversation emanating from the same mind Alternatively is it a solicitation for more moneys? No offence intended 
> 2. I couldn't agree more! It sounds very much like the same person making the reinforcing and encouraging posts! Please tell me that I'm wrong, Please??
> @SSS001 are you also Sak001???
> 
> You are more than welcome to double check and see if there is a link there
> 
> On a lighter note, Yes, I have finished the 75 days and started a new cycle again


Hi SSS100,

Please accept my apologies for alleging that you SSS100 and Sak001 are one in the same! :Slap: I've being presumptious! Tell you what as reprisal, I'll scrub the shame off my face with steelwool today! :Slap: 

Regardless, this service alternatively concept still doesn't sound legit! Nothing in life is for free, especially not money!
Please enlighten us, please tell me what your motive is for promoting this concept with such conviction?

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## Mike C

> My name is sanele, i have been following the convesation abwt net income solution (DeffendanceX)
> its changed my life a lot. i just purchised a new car and a house with a money that i have made in this past year. life is all about risk, soon as u live your house.


Hi Sanel - welcome to the forum.  I am so pleased that you have been so successful with Defencex.  Tell us more about how long ago you invested, how much you risked and how it all came together for you.

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## Citizen X

> Hi Sanel - welcome to the forum. I am so pleased that you have been so successful with Defencex. Tell us more about how long ago you invested, how much you risked and how it all came together for you.


Hi Sanel,

Mike has raised 3 pertinent questions, consequently, I too would appreciate it if you could please answer these questions

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## SSS100

NotedVanash Naick, no worries

Welcome sanel,

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## Mlaketsi

Good day guys, its Mlaketsi here
I've been reading your blogs above and i'm proud to say that yes, Defencex is real and what dfsa has said is very important. I have made approximately 50g's as profit on it and i guess i can say that I have mastered how to maximise the benefits. I trade in defencex as Mlaketsi and should you need more information you can contact me on 0846326138. It's real but do not put more than you're willing to lose. No one knows when the site will crash and cease to exist.

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## Mlaketsi

Hey Mike C and Vanash.
In Sanel's silence i'd like to notify you of the following to answer these 3 crucial questions.
1)How long I've invested. 
Joined October 2012
2) How much I've invested : R20000
3) How much I've made : 23000 and counting (Ie my initial 20000 + 23000)
Of the 23000 profit I've made, Ive banked 11000 and im rotating the other 12000.

So long as this Hype doesn't crashe within 50 days from entering it, you're in the money.

I hope this has clarified the matter.

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## Dave A

> No one knows when the site will crash and cease to exist.


Kinda sums things up quite neatly, I think.

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## Mike C

> Kinda sums things up quite neatly, I think.


Couldn't agree more.

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## supersaiyan

> No one knows when the site will crash and cease to exist.


Why would the site crash?
Isn't this a well established organization?

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## vieome

> Why would the site crash?
> Isn't this a well established organization?


Cause some times the too good to be true turn out to be too good to be true

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Citizen X (23-Jan-13)

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## Justloadit

This is the bait stage, as soon as the heavy investing starts, then.................

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Chrisjan B (23-Jan-13)

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## Chrisjan B

....the cow dung hits the fan?

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## SSS100

Remember winners know when to stop

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## Chrisjan B

When will you stop then?

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

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## Dave A

> Why would the site crash?
> Isn't this a well established organization?


It's a ponzi scheme. One day it's going to *be* bust, or *go* bust.
Or the operators will do a runner...

It's just a matter of time.

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## SSS100

I suggest get your money out, and profit of course then call it a day...no matter how small. Its safer that way

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## zobs

Hi Sanele, is this thing really working sincewell you saying you managed to buy a car and a house? Please respond.

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## zobs

Thanks for the info mla, much appreciated buddy. Hope to learn a skill or two from you

Regards
Zolile

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## mphoza

> My name is sanele, i have been following the convesation abwt net income solution (DeffendanceX)
> its changed my life a lot. i just purchised a new car and a house with a money that i have made in this past year. life is all about risk, soon as u live your house.


hi i also hv been following ur chats about eft. guys i joined in december 2012 and so far its making great profits. i took a loan and joined with R40 000 and it repays me R800.00 A DAY. i am close to repaying the loan. it works wonders guys

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## flaker

> hi i also hv been following ur chats about eft. guys i joined in december 2012 and so far its making great profits. i took a loan and joined with R40 000 and it repays me R800.00 A DAY. i am close to repaying the loan. it works wonders guys


When an investment of R40,000 pays R800 per day = approx 60% per month = 720% per annum, then *IT IS A SCAM*

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## zobs

So Mphoza R U repaying the loan daily or monthly, just make sure you repay the loan as quick as u can Just to be safe, I joined with R500 and my return is R10 a day which is im not in a hurry.

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## zobs

Flaker for now we just have to be safe, what's nice about this once your profit is R200 or more, you can start to withdraw your earned profit that is why I'm saying Mphoza should push to pay of his Loan.

By the end of the 75days, Mphoza would have made R20 000 as profit.

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## Citizen X

I'm sorry guys, I regret that I can't accept with simple logic that one can get rich with this concept! If it works for you that quite alright, as for me and the many who know me, we will never buy into this concept. It's a simple principle really, the only place you going to find success before work is in the dictionary! Nothing X Nothing is still nothing!! 0 X 0= 0!!!
If this concept is such a recipe for financial success then every South African would have bought into it!! Why hasn't every South African bought into it????

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## SSS100

Many are not aware of it, and many are also afraid to take risk. 
For me, risk is okay, as long as it's calculated risk, that means Iam aware of what my potential loss is and as such, the risk is limited to what I can afford (like going to the casino with fixed limit of what to spend and stick to it)

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## Darkangelyaya

You are all missing the point, 'investors', not to mention directly contravening the rules of what you signed up for. You are also misrepresenting what the company does and stands for. I shake my head with sadness, that a valid and worthy healing technique such as EFT (tapping), is being exploited like this. Please tell me any of you at least attended the course (what you are actually paying for!).

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## anthuwin

I'm in a similar investment program.But this is not HYIP,this is real investing.I get 2.17% daily interest for 170 business days.I belong to a special group of entrepreneurs and only we get the 2.17% daily.Open for new members.

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## Citizen X

> I'm in a similar investment program.But this is not HYIP,this is real investing.I get 2.17% daily interest for 170 business days.I belong to a special group of entrepreneurs and only we get the 2.17% daily.Open for new members.


Is membership for free?? I tell you what, since you promoting this concept with such conviction you clearly believe in it, if you clearly believe in it, you won't have a problem to pay my membership fee? So pay my membership fee and when I make my millions from my membership, I won't forget you! I'll least give you something!

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## Justloadit

> I'm in a similar investment program.But this is not HYIP,this is real investing.I get 2.17% daily interest for 170 business days.I belong to a special group of entrepreneurs and only we get the 2.17% daily.Open for new members.


At 2.17% daily, it means that it becomes 65.1% monthly, or 792% annually.
So with a simple R100.00, and not doing compound interest calculations, will yield R792.00 at the end of the year - something just does not smell right.
At these rates, why don't the platinum mines stop mining, and simply invest in this scheme and make 700 times more money annually than going through the process of a typical business.

I stand here to be educated, but I do not know of any legally sustainable business, that can offer these kinds of returns.

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Citizen X (02-Feb-13), Dave A (05-Feb-13), ntsako.mpenyana@gmail.com (26-Mar-13)

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## Citizen X

> At 2.17% daily, it means that it becomes 65.1% monthly, or 792% annually.
> So with a simple R100.00, and not doing compound interest calculations, will yield R792.00 at the end of the year - something just does not smell right.
> At these rates, why don't the platinum mines stop mining, and simply invest in this scheme and make 700 times more money annually than going through the process of a typical business.
> 
> I stand here to be educated, but I do not know of any legally sustainable business, that can offer these kinds of returns.



A very good morning to you Justloadit,

What you say makes perfect sense! :Thumbup: All the businesses in SA having so much problems with loss of revenue due to strikes including the farms, should just close shop and invest in this scheme!

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## SilverNodashi

it's quite amazing how many "newcommers" suddenly joined the forum to promote this... uhm, "system"?


P.S. @Dave: It's very easy for someone with a bit of knowledge on the internet to register 10 or even 20 accounts, all from one PC, and make it look like 20 individuals.

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Citizen X (03-Feb-13)

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## Chrisjan B

Don't worry Softdux-Rudi the members of this forum is not stupid, we are waiting for the bubble to burst and the "inkommers" to Vanash to Naick....

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Citizen X (03-Feb-13)

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## Citizen X

> it's quite amazing how many "newcommers" suddenly joined the forum to promote this... uhm, "system"?
> 
> 
> P.S. @Dave: It's very easy for someone with a bit of knowledge on the internet to register 10 or even 20 accounts, all from one PC, and make it look like 20 individuals.


Credibility of spokesperson: Credibility of any spokesperson promoting a product or service is paramount in adverstising and sales promotion. In this case there is no reputable, well known, trusted and credible spokesperson! I will never endorse this concept!
@SoftDux-Rudi, your suspicion has great merit!

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## supersaiyan

To the guys that are using this.
Why must I only sign up under someone? Can't I just register on my own?
Why must you be assigned to someone you don't know?

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## Citizen X

> Credibility of spokesperson: Credibility of any spokesperson promoting a product or service is paramount in adverstising and sales promotion. In this case there is no reputable, well known, trusted and credible spokesperson! I will never endorse this concept!
> @SoftDux-Rudi, your suspicion has great merit!


I'm being redundant! I'm repeating myself, I think that for every post made to directly or indirectly promote this concept, I'll need to engage in such juvenile quips! I emphasize here, that if indeed this concept was as lucrative as it's promoted to be, then all the mines, farmers and other such busineses will much rather close shop and invest in this concept!!

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## Citizen X

> To the guys that are using this.
> Why must I only sign up under someone? Can't I just register on my own?
> Why must you be assigned to someone you don't know?


A very good afternoon to you Supersaiyan, welcome to TFSA :Thumbup:  To be perfectly honest with you: I don't have a clue! Perhaps Softdux-Rudi can provide an answer that also gives a balanced view...

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## kimzaza

hey flaker you can say so but it is what is happening ... i also joined and i wish i had more money , i wouldn't mind to put R100 000.00  if i had it... this thing is for real

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## kimzaza

flaker you must say its a scam when you proved it..... scientists will say tried and tested... so check your facts coz some people come here to get answers. so if you didn't try it don't say its a scam

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## Darkangelyaya

Seriously!
People....  :Headbutt:

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## kimzaza

darkangelyaya      seriousily :Smile:

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## kimzaza

> To the guys that are using this.
> Why must I only sign up under someone? Can't I just register on my own?
> Why must you be assigned to someone you don't know?



well because it also give us an extra profit , we earn referral commission, i can say its some kind of a network... but when you join you are not forced to let anyone join under you....its the duty of the sponsor to explain to you everything so that is why we earn a referral commission

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## kimzaza

> Is membership for free?? I tell you what, since you promoting this concept with such conviction you clearly believe in it, if you clearly believe in it, you won't have a problem to pay my membership fee? So pay my membership fee and when I make my millions from my membership, I won't forget you! I'll least give you something!


well i can do that

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## Dave A

> flaker you must say its a scam when you proved it..... scientists will say tried and tested... so check your facts coz some people come here to get answers. so if you didn't try it don't say its a scam


Ah yes, some sort of proof...

Perhaps you would mind sharing exactly how these fantastic payouts are funded?

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## monaknight03

> Ah yes, some sort of proof...
> 
> Perhaps you would mind sharing exactly how these fantastic payouts are funded?


Yes you are right. He must share it here...

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## Mike C

> Yes you are right. He must share it here...


Agreed!  Because if it is not a scam or pyramid scheme, then there is nothing to hide.

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## flaker

kimzaza,  i think you're convinced that this will make money, & you wish you had a R100,000 to put in. The good news is that with the returns the scheme generates,you will not have to wait long. Overnight your moneys would grow to R100,000  & your wishes would be fulfilled.

How i wish things were this easy...........

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## sydningo

> Noted
> Has anyone delat with this entity? Please guys, or maybe who wants to try it with me?


I did try it. I currentry make R200 per day.

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## Justloadit

You know, maybe I am weird, but if I had found a place in which I was making this kind of money, I would not be telling the world, but would pawn my bicycle, my car, my house, my dog, my mother in law, my wife, what ever I could get some money to invest into the scheme, cos the returns are so damn good, that I could pay every body off in a space of a few weeks.

If you say it enough times, you may convince your victim that this works, it's called advertising.
Play on peoples greed and they will come to you.
Too many new single post one liners on this thread to add any credibility to the scheme.

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## Citizen X

> well i can do that


Oh thank you Sir!!!! Please make some substantial investment for me with your own money on my behalf, as said, if it works, in a couple of years after I've bought a house and a few cars, I won't forget you!!! I'll at least give you something!!!
So how much are you going to pay for me and when???

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## Citizen X

> You know, maybe I am weird, but if I had found a place in which I was making this kind of money, I would not be telling the world, but would pawn my bicycle, my car, my house, my dog, my mother in law, my wife, what ever I could get some money to invest into the scheme, cos the returns are so damn good, that I could pay every body off in a space of a few weeks.
> 
> If you say it enough times, you may convince your victim that this works, it's called advertising.
> Play on peoples greed and they will come to you.
> Too many new single post one liners on this thread to add any credibility to the scheme.


Credibility will only work with a credible and reputable spokesman that is nationally well known. Here we dealing with the unknown making elaborate claims and the central idea is that you must join and pay money to join etc. I don't think the whole of SA is going to suddenly paying hard earned money for this! I will never with a good conscience endorse this. There's just too many alarm bells..

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## Tloubans

I also joined in January with R20k, so far I have withdrawn R6k and my points will expire on the 18th of April, it's great if you ask me, after the points expire I'll buy R50k worth of points which will make R1k a day which will be R75k after 75days, ask me if you want to join I'll explain it to you

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## Citizen X

> I also joined in January with R20k, so far I have withdrawn R6k and my points will expire on the 18th of April, it's great if you ask me, after the points expire I'll buy R50k worth of points which will make R1k a day which will be R75k after 75days, ask me if you want to join I'll explain it to you


No thank you! I'll pass!

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## Darkangelyaya

> No thank you! I'll pass!


LOL Vanash!

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## Chrisjan B

Me too!

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

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## Blurock

> well because it also give us an extra profit , we earn referral commission, i can say its some kind of a network... but when you join you are not forced to let anyone join under you....its the duty of the sponsor to explain to you everything so that is why we earn a referral commission


Definition of a pyramid scheme. Why does the regulator not step in? How many people must lose their hard earned savings before something is done? :Censored:

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## Tloubans

> Definition of a pyramid scheme. Why does the regulator not step in? How many people must lose their hard earned savings before something is done?


Well, to me this is the same as gambling at the slots, if you lose you lose and if you win you win, up to so far I have been winning, especially from the referral commission

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## Citizen X

> Well, to me this is the same as gambling at the slots, if you lose you lose and if you win you win, up to so far I have been winning, especially from the referral commission


Then that's the way this concept should be ideally marketed i.e. a big gamble at your own risks, no guarantees etc..

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## Tloubans

> Then that's the way this concept should be ideally marketed i.e. a big gamble at your own risks, no guarantees etc..


Well that's how it is, it's on your own risk. Take it or leave it

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## Citizen X

> Well that's how it is, it's on your own risk. Take it or leave it


Dear T Loubans,
*You have now given the answer that I was in earnest seeking!* Thank you!
So to put things into perspective, there’s no written express guarantee with Dfencex that you will make money greater than your investment, this is also done on your own risk; so if you lose everything you then have no recourse because they will simply tell you that it’s on your own risk!
Now with a bank, even though the interest rates on a fixed deposit are low, you guaranteed to obtain such interest and there is no risk that you will lose your initial investment! Stark contrast, don’t you think

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## SSS100

Hi Vanash,
think of it like betting on a horse race...your horse wins, you cash in..And your horse lose, you can't claim from race court owners

And, i assume its common knowledge that the higher the risk, the higher the rewerad
Hence bank rate is lower than such things as defencex...there's a lot of such internet income generation schemes around
http://defencexbeststrategy.wozaonline.co.za/products
https://www.profitablesunrise.com/?upline=netbiz

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## flaker

> Hi Vanash,
> think of it like betting on a horse race...your horse wins, you cash in..And your horse lose, you can't claim from race court owners
> 
> And, i assume its common knowledge that the higher the risk, the higher the rewerad
> Hence bank rate is lower than such things as defencex...there's a lot of such internet income generation schemes around
> ]




What Vanash & others & myself have been trying to say is that these schemes are ILLEGAL, the profits they generate are ILLEGAL and operators of these schemes are operating criminally & soon the Hawks would be knocking on peoples doors.

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## SSS100

Just because you do not agree with a concept does not make it ILLEGAL
Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean your the ultimate judge

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kimzaza (27-Feb-13)

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## Blurock

> Just because you do not agree with a concept does not make it ILLEGAL
> Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean your the ultimate judge


This opinion has been formed from seeing so many people lose from these schemes. Please note; Schemes, not businesses. :Frown:

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## Tloubans

> What Vanash & others & myself have been trying to say is that these schemes are ILLEGAL, the profits they generate are ILLEGAL and operators of these schemes are operating criminally & soon the Hawks would be knocking on peoples doors.


Oh well, until then I'm happy to make R6k a week, if I lose my money I'll laugh at myself & if I win then I'll laugh all the way to the bank

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## supersaiyan

> well because it also give us an extra profit , we earn referral commission, i can say its some kind of a network... but when you join you are not forced to let anyone join under you....its the duty of the sponsor to explain to you everything so that is why we earn a referral commission


Well I sent an email through to "HQ" with the hope that I will be helped but instead was given a name of some guy I don't know and haven't met to join under him....hmmm...why would I want to do that. I want to be my own tree and have branches from me.

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## vieome

Is there a Rat in the Kitchen?

What I find strange is that many of the people vouching for this seem to be newly registered, and while I know Dave has checked the I.Ps perhaps they(him) are using some program to change their i.p addresses. Or perhaps they have all joined the ponzy and are all pushing the merits of the scheme in the hope of getting new people to register, as these schemes only work with new money coming in to pay off the old investors?

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## vieome

> I also joined in January with R20k, so far I have withdrawn R6k and my points will expire on the 18th of April, it's great if you ask me, after the points expire I'll buy R50k worth of points which will make R1k a day which will be R75k after 75days, ask me if you want to join I'll explain it to you


So what you saying ? You given someone your 20K and a month later in Feb they gave you 6k back. So they still holding 14k of yours , and you vouching for this not knowing if you will get your full 20k back , but instead of asking for the balance of your 20k you now want to give them a further 30k of your money. If you have no gaurantee that you will get back your 20K then you have not made nothing, I would not yet be shouting about how brilliant this ponzy scheme is .

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Dave A (13-Feb-13)

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## Tloubans

> So what you saying ? You given someone your 20K and a month later in Feb they gave you 6k back. So they still holding 14k of yours , and you vouching for this not knowing if you will get your full 20k back , but instead of asking for the balance of your 20k you now want to give them a further 30k of your money. If you have no gaurantee that you will get back your 20K then you have not made nothing, I would not yet be shouting about how brilliant this ponzy scheme is .


My mentallity is that I'm grumbling, I don't gamble at Carnival City,Emperors Palace or Monte Casino but at DefenceX, I'm basically gambling. It's a win or lose for me and its fine, I make more than R30k at my job so it's not a loss to me

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## SSS100

> Is there a Rat in the Kitchen?
> 
> What I find strange is that many of the people vouching for this seem to be newly registered, and while I know Dave has checked the I.Ps perhaps they(him) are using some program to change their i.p addresses. Or perhaps they have all joined the ponzy and are all pushing the merits of the scheme in the hope of getting new people to register, as these schemes only work with new money coming in to pay off the old investors?


I find the suggestion that some of us are changing I.Ps to be very rude and welcomed. What are you suggesting by that? That I'm a crook?
Don't be silly. Here you can start your opinion, but do not insult me

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## Citizen X

> I find the suggestion that some of us are changing I.Ps to be very rude and welcomed. What are you suggesting by that? That I'm a crook?
> Don't be silly. Here you can start your opinion, but do not insult me


I will never endorse this concept with a good conscience! I will never recommend it! There are just to many un-controllable elements. This concept, in my opinion, is certainly not the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!
I do find it suspicious that so many new members most of whom have aliases are suddenly promoting this concept instead of the get a real job, mentality which I approve of!
You not going to get the thousands of members to join subscribe to this concept from TFSA. At TFSA, we ask the difficult questions and as you can no doubt ascertain are not at all dissuaded from making our voices a spublic as possible.
What you fail to realize is that you on public record! This record can never be deleted. So if things go south thousands of people will be expecting answers from you!

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## Citizen X

> Hi Vanash,
> think of it like betting on a horse race...your horse wins, you cash in..And your horse lose, you can't claim from race court owners
> 
> And, i assume its common knowledge that the higher the risk, the higher the rewerad
> Hence bank rate is lower than such things as defencex...there's a lot of such internet income generation schemes around
> http://defencexbeststrategy.wozaonline.co.za/products
> https://www.profitablesunrise.com/?upline=netbiz


Do you really belive that people who visit this thread are going to suddenly invest money into this concept? I think not!!! Time will tell, if things don't work out with this concept, people will be looking for answers. I think you equiped to provide such answers, you should post all your contact details so that if their are complaints, you can easily be traced etc.

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## SSS100

You can not expect answers from me, you did not put your money into my account.
Thats the point you missing, I go with what I think can work for me..and I can afford to lose if it goes south
But what the hell gives you the right to claim anything from me? I did not say you must put your money, I did not make up your mind for you
I merely said there are other munerous entities out there that offers different options or services
And the best thing is that those sites have their respective contact details and its an indivuduals choice to make contact with them or do as much research as they want

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## Citizen X

> You can not expect answers from me, you did not put your money into my account.
> Thats the point you missing, I go with what I think can work for me..and I can afford to lose if it goes south
> But what the hell gives you the right to claim anything from me? I did not say you must put your money, I did not make up your mind for you
> I merely said there are other munerous entities out there that offers different options or services
> And the best thing is that those sites have their respective contact details and its an indivuduals choice to make contact with them or do as much research as they want


SSS100, a drastic departure from your initial position of promoting this concept! You must apprecaite that you are promoting this concept. If things do go wrong for thousand sof South Africans, they'll need to address their complaints with those who are promoting the concept and encouring them to join. So if things do go wrong, I think that you the ideal person to deal with all the disgruntled poeple who tried this concept. It's not improbable that that day may come, and when such a day comes, at least we have you on public record. Potential angry investors will need to at the very least have an opportunity to have a meeting with you when things go South. Since you confident that this will never transpire, you should update your profile to such an extent that all South Africans can very easily trace you.
If you haven't already noticed this is a reputable site and we protect our Fellow South Africans here. Most of our names are on public record and therefore people such as myself can be very easily traced.. I wouldn't have it any other way!! In my opinion there's just too much alarm bells here. I don't beilve you! This is my final position! I also don't find you to be credible! In my opinion you attempting to get new members to join this concept and I suspect that you are failing dismally! Invest your own money in this concept, *don't encourage* others to do the same, as prima facie, *if you* do mislead anyone into elaborate returns and they don't get such returns then their complaints should be directed directly to you.

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## SSS100

If you check or trace backwards you will realise that I got to post about the concept as I was going my research after having heard about it
There is difference there.
Having done my research, I made up my mind. And I have continuously stated on my posts that a person must do their own analysis and make up their mind
That is not promoting or discreting the concepts, but letting each one explore and decide on their own

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## Darkangelyaya

I'm just wondering how many TFSA members are even after all this, still considering investing (read 'gambling').
I know I am definitely having a hard time completely shutting up the pesky little bastard on my shoulder telling me to lighten up and take a chance. 
No publicity is bad publicity, right? Whether winning the debate from an ethical standpoint or not, this thread has had almost 20 000 views. And the scheme's main page clocks up +- 50 000 visits a day.
Which basically means that if you ever wanted to risk something huge, now is probably as good as it gets.
Let me just go get the hammer for the very-end-of-the-month-salty-cracks-snack-pig.
Will phone y'all from the villa via satphone if I'll get a chance inbetween tanning and massages on the beach.
Now where is that damn bucket list when you need it?

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Dave A (13-Feb-13)

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## vieome

> I find the suggestion that some of us are changing I.Ps to be very rude and welcomed. What are you suggesting by that? That I'm a crook?
> Don't be silly. Here you can start your opinion, but do not insult me


I think you miss read what I wrote, I clearly stated that some of the newly registered could be playing with i.p addresses, and you Joined Oct 2011 that hardly puts you in the newly registered category.  

And yourself as, someone who has invested in the scheme, does it not concern you, that in a thread you started so many newly registered are praising the scheme though none of them have got their initial investment back yet, plus a profit? 

Please note in no way I am saying that you are connected to the newly registered, or trying to insult you, I know your only connection with the newly registered is that you all have invested in the same scheme.

However I will state it loudly and clearly such returns on investment being claimed in this thread clearly point to a ponzi scheme.   


Madoff

Five Key Elements of a Ponzi Scheme (From how stuff works)

The Benefit: A promise that the investment will achieve an above normal rate of return. The rate of return is often specified. The promised rate of return has to be high enough to be worthwhile to the investor but not so high as to be unbelievable.


The Setup: A relatively plausible explanation of how the investment can achieve these above normal rates of return. One often-used explanation is that the investor is skilled and/or has some inside information. Another possible explanation is that the investor has access to an investment opportunity not otherwise available to the general public.


 Initial Credibility: The person running the scheme needs to be believable enough to convince the initial investors to leave their money with him.


Initial Investors Paid Off: For at least a few periods the investors need to make at least the promised rate of return - if not better.


    Communicated Successes: Other investors need to hear about the payoffs, such that their numbers grow exponentially. At the very least more money needs to be coming in than is being paid back to investors.


Steps in the Ponzi Scheme
Ponzi Schemes are quite basic but can be extraordinarily powerful. The steps are as follows:

    Convince a few investors to place money into the investment.


    After the specified time return the investment money to the investors plus the specified interest rate or return.


    Pointing to the historical success of the investment, convince more investors to place their money into the system. Typically the vast majority of the earlier investors will return. Why would they not? The system has been providing them with great benefits.


    Repeat steps 1 through 3 a number of times. During step 2 at one of the cycles, break the pattern. Instead of returning the investment money and paying the promised return, escape with the money and start a new life.

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Blurock (13-Feb-13), Citizen X (15-Feb-13), Dave A (13-Feb-13)

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## Dave A

I wouldn't get too strung out by the one post wonders, folks. This thread is getting a *lot* of attention and as a result it's bound to attract them.

The scariest thing to me is the way the search volume on Net Income Solutions is climbing. Defencex seems a relatively new version of this "scheme" by comparison, and yet, comparing the two.

 :EEK!:

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## nrm

Hi, i have tried it myself. have just taken a risk, i am earning daily based on the amount i have risked with

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## nrm

Hi, i have been following your conversation about defencex, i have also taken a calculated risk by joining. I am earning daily. What is good for me is that so many people have joined under me and that is making me to receive a lot of commission, 10 percent of every deposit my direct recruit deposit. I have at this stage received more than what i put in

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## Pfuma

Hi Guys,

I have just joined this forum today because of i am in a quest to find out Net Income Solutions in real or not. I am happy to have read some of responses on the question posted by SSS100. I have discovered the scheme in January 2013, by the explanation and my confirmation on how it works on internet, i took a great risk of joining it. I have deposited R10 000 from which i am expected to make a profit of R5000 by the end of 75 days from the date of investment. Thus far im getting my R200 daily, i have even transfered some money from the scheme to my bank account and it was reall money. I wanna test this to the last day in which my capital is paid back to me and my profit. Thus far i am convinced hence the risk i took but i will be more convinced to tell my other friends only when i have my capital back. If is a scam, early investors will benefits but when it begins to be overcrowded it will collapse. So for me, the sooner the better, i thought. if i loose, im not gonna hang myself because i know what i got myself into. Much interesting about it, you dont get paid by number of people you have recruited, it is just a once off payment of 10% of the money you deposited that goes to your referer and it never gets deducted from your capital at all. I think if there is anyone with experience of not getting back his/her money, it will be highly appreciated to share the experience. thus far there is nothing negative i can say about the schem.

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## Pfuma

Hey Lucky you. My sponsors told me so. but i am scared to tell my friend to join, what if they loose? so i decided to wait and see where does this thing go with my money first, then i will tell them after 75 days when i am convinced

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## Blurock

I wonder how many of these risk takers will be so open and up front to admit when they realise that they have been scammed. :No:

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## SSS100

I surely will be one of the first...if not the first to openly admit if I have been scammed

And I think Dave is right, the post got more than it was supposed to when I initially posted
Now sure how it works in terms of blocking it Dave?

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## Dave A

> And I think Dave is right, the post got more than it was supposed to when I initially posted
> Now sure how it works in terms of blocking it Dave?


I think it's in the public interest to keep it open.

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## Citizen X

> I think it's in the public interest to keep it open.


Good evening Boss :Wink: ,

It is in the public interest!I doubt however that the 22 000 visits to this thread yileded in 22000 investments into this concept. I think people are now starting to ask questions! This is a good thing. I look forward to complaints about this concept! If anyone out there has any complaints, please post them here.. I will never endorse this concept...If it works for you, that all good and well, *but, should you represent to another individual that this concept will work for them and it doesn't work, it may be opening a media floodgate that you never anticipated!!!*

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## SSS100

Hi Dave, I'm ok with it as long as u ok to let in flood inbox
And yes, let's hear what others have experienced...I would also like to hear other people's stories on the subject, especial bad experiences

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## Citizen X

Not entirely certain if this relates to the concept in question, if not, *apologies* etc..
I'm also not entirely certain if this information assists either way, just thought that I'd throw it out there..
*Question: How is this concept funded?????*

Domain name: defencex.com
Domain Title: EFT for Me
Domain Age: 1 Years, 156 Days
Website Speed: Fast
Owner: CHRIS WALKER
Address: 3 BALGOVE CIRCLE, ATLANTIC BEACH
Website Location: United States 

Probable website origin :-

62%; United States

38%; south Africa

Notes:-
This website is 1 Years, 156 Days old

Analysis Details:- 
Although this website appears to be based in United States there are other countries involved and you should review this information carefully and decide if it is as you expect.Although being a new website, does not make it un-trustworthy, as with any new business you should be extra vigilant and do your own research before placing an order or making an investment. 
Name: CHRIS WALKER
Street: 3 BALGOVE CIRCLE, ATLANTIC BEACH
Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
Web : http://registrar.godaddy.com
Registrar Country: United States 
Ip Address: 64.202.189.170
Hosting Service: "GoDaddy.com"
Hosting City: Scottsdale
Hosting Region: AZ
Hosting Postal: 85260
Hosting Country: United States 
Domain Created: 14-Sep-11
Domain Expires: 14-Sep-13
Domain Life: 731
Other Domains: 
Ping: 658
Speed: Fast
Network Name: 
Network Country: United States 
Source:
http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/defencex.com

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## SSS100

Today I could not log in on the defender site, and naturally I started panicking and did some looking around
And I found that other members have been experiencing problems too..... It does get worried, check
https://www.facebook.com/DefencexEfT...tream&filter=2

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## zobs

Vanish does this mean after the 14 Sep 2013 the site will not exist?

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## Citizen X

> Vanish does this mean after the 14 Sep 2013 the site will not exist?


On the contrary! I simply conjured up what I could find in the public domain about this site/concept! My stance remains, I cannot and will not with good conscience endorse this concept, there are just too many alarm bells! I'm waiting to see if there's any fall out..

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## Mathebuj

I also doubted this defencex, until i put down abt R100k in Nov 12. I need 2 say i did get my capital back from de earnings plus another R315k. Its unvelievable, but it works. The only thing is that u lose your cash depisit after the 75 days and remain with earnings balance

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## vieome

In the certain event(like death and taxes) of its collapse Investors may end up net winners or net losers in the scheme, the question is if you are a winner in the ponzi scheme, how would you feel that you won, and what you won was other peoples loses.

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Citizen X (19-Feb-13)

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## Citizen X

> In the certain event(like death and taxes) of its collapse Investors may end up net winners or net losers in the scheme, the question is if you are a winner in the ponzi scheme, how would you feel that you won, and what you won was other peoples loses.


Good morning Vieome :Wink: 
What you say has great merit! Makes perfect sense to me...

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## sydningo

Yes i am subscribed to it. i currently make around R300 per day.

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## Pfuma

@ Vanash Naick and Zobs. it doesnt necessarily mean the site wont exist by the upcoming date, site or domain can be updated. If you check on DefenceX it was opened on the 14th Sept 2011, and updated on the 15th Sept 2012, so he can still update it in Sept 2013 again.

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## Pfuma

@MathebuJ. How do you get another R315 000 if you deposited only R100 000? To my understand you can only make R150 000 on the 75th day if you did not buy extra point.

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## flaker

> Yes i am subscribed to it. i currently make around R300 per day.


It is a cardinal sin when you subscribe to knowingly taking other people's money.

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## Blurock

> I also doubted this defencex, until i put down abt R100k in Nov 12. I need 2 say i did get my capital back from de earnings plus another R315k. Its unvelievable, but it works. The only thing is that u lose your cash depisit after the 75 days and remain with earnings balance


This can not possibly be true. R315k return on R100k in 2-3 months?!
If this is true, it is proof that it is a Ponzi scheme as no legal investment in this world will pay you that return.

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## Darkangelyaya

> This can not possibly be true. R315k return on R100k in 2-3 months?!
> If this is true, it is proof that it is a Ponzi scheme as no legal investment in this world will pay you that return.


Even if this dude invested R100k in the beginning of Nov '12, he would have only completed one cycle of 75 days, i.e. made R150k, according to all their stats, and would be around halfway through the second cycle of 75 days. Assuming he put his 150k straight back in, by around the end of March, he would have only made R275k, unless he started using compound interest on his first term, in which case none of the money would actually be available to him at the moment. Which means he has made nothing, it's all still at risk, while he's happily grinning at numbers on a screen.

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## SSS100

True, and I can't believe one can claim to have made money if its still not in your position...either under your bed or bank
I mean, looking at the available money on Internet system that u can not control is not something to be certain of
As much as I did join that program, I'm very realistic about the possibilities open to such types

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## Dave A

> Assuming he put his 150k straight back in,


And that, my friends, is the really scary part in all this. If you put your money back in, have you made a single cent yet?
Just like at the casino, you haven't actually won any money until you cash your chips and walk out the door!

Even if you just put back in your original R100k in this scenario and keep your R50k "earnings", you've still got R50k of your money at risk during the second 75 days. 
Break even is only at 150 days. 
You'll be up 50% after 225 days.

Even the days count is a little unclear. I see Mondays don't count. Do the weekend days not count too?

Smoke and mirrors, folks. Don't be suckers.

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Blurock (20-Feb-13)

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## Citizen X

> And that, my friends, is the really scary part in all this. If you put your money back in, have you made a single cent yet?
> Just like at the casino, you haven't actually won any money until you cash your chips and walk out the door!
> 
> Even if you just put back in your original R100k in this scenario and keep your R50k "earnings", you've still got R50k of your money at risk during the second 75 days. 
> Break even is only at 150 days. 
> You'll be up 50% after 225 days.
> 
> Even the days count is a little unclear. I see Mondays don't count. Do the weekend days not count too?
> 
> Smoke and mirrors, folks. Don't be suckers.


I think Dave makes a pretty fair statement! Just think for yourselves here...

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## Mathebuj

> @MathebuJ. How do you get another R315 000 if you deposited only R100 000? To my understand you can only make R150 000 on the 75th day if you did not buy extra point.


Well, this is how I made it. R100K deposit and compunding it daily buy buying more points with daily earnings. you looking at roughly 75% returns per month. But the most important aspect is that you get 10% commission for first level referrals and 5% for 2nd level referrals. thats percentage of your referral's deposits. Now, if you refer somone with big pockets, then big commission. Simple. In actual fact, I have withdrawn earnings and deposits to the value of R160K that I got into my bank account. well too good to be true, I agree, but I also only believed when i got the cash. Even I f I loose the money down stream, my risk is significantly given that I got my capital back plus more. so why not????

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## Mathebuj

compunded from day 1 with earnings which takes your earnings per month to about 70%. You also get 10% commissions for 1st level referrals and 5% for 2nd level referrals. so, if you lucky enough to refer someone with deeper pockets, then you score. And remember that every time they compound their earnings you still get commission of that too. With that in mind, then 315K should not be a problem. I have in essence withdrawn already abt R160K in cash which I have received in my bank account. Well too good to be true? I guess so, but hey, I was in the same position until i tried and it worked. Whats my risk for playing now, definately zero as I have received my investment back plus 60% more. I am in the second phase of the 75 days and I receive abt R4500 earnings a day which i can withdraw daily....so whether it is a scam or not, am getting money so why not.

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## Chrisjan B

There is nobody so blind as him who does not want to see...

Only time will tell.....

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## Mathebuj

It took me 11 months to believe the concept after a friend told me. I watched him make money from this until Nov when I decided to try it. If you wanna try, rather use money you can afford to lose. Deposit a R1000 and see whether you do get the 2% a day as promised. Then if you have confidence, deposit what you willing to safely put away for 75 days. If you still think this is too good, then maybe its just not for you. rather put your money in the bank and receive 10% interest per year. for the last 2 years I havent heard of anyone robbed their money by defencex nor any complaint on hellopeter or anywhere on the internet abt loosing their wealth through this. maybe it will still happen, who knows? maybe it wont.

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## Mathebuj

you buy a point for R100. every point makes u R2 per day. monday they dont pay plus a day after a public holiday. every point can only make u R150 (R2 X 75 days), then that point expires. otherwise they pay consistently 6 days a week. If you include commissions, then it should make sense how my money got to R315K in 3 months. What u must note though is that after 75 days you lose the cash deposit or basically the points purchased at the beginning of the 75 days and you left with earnings or points bought with earnings.

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## vieome

> whether it is a scam or not, am getting money so why not.


 It is those kind of beliefs that allowed things like slave trade, never mind what is right and who suffers as long as you make money. 

When you invest in a scam and get other to join the scam you become a part of the scam.

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Citizen X (20-Feb-13), Newretailer (10-Mar-13)

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## Citizen X

> It is those kind of beliefs that allowed things like slave trade, never mind what is right and who suffers as long as you make money. 
> 
> When you invest in a scam and get other to join the scam you become a part of the scam.


Vieome, it's apparent that should things/investments not work out for some individuals that have been promoting this concept, that they then can't turn to us! We simply want to have a balanced view and preferably the truth with no contradictions. I personally don't trust this concept one bit and will never endorse it! But hey, that's just me!! This scam alert forum has assisted many South Africans from making decisions that they otherwise might have made to their detriment had they not happened upon this forum! In this sense TFSA is a very socially responsible site!

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## Mathebuj

Slave trade was never a choice but colour based. U were forced n sold 2 sum1. This is purely a choice. U not stealing anyone's money. U give ur money 2 sum1 n he returns more by 150%. its only a scam when sum1 is scammed.

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## Citizen X

> Slave trade was never a choice but colour based. U were forced n sold 2 sum1. This is purely a choice. U not stealing anyone's money. U give ur money 2 sum1 n he returns more by 150%. its only a scam when sum1 is scammed.


 :Offtopic:  God made man, man made slaves!
back on topic: @Mathebuj, at the end of the day, it is your money and you not being forced to invest it in the manner that you do. I suppose if you sure that this concept is totally legal i.e. complies with all our laws , then that's your prerogative! That said, if there is a fallout you now on public record as promoting this concept!! Will you perhaps be willing to address any complaints about this concept i.e. if there are angry disgruntled people out there who tried this concept based upon recommendation they received here, will you be prepared to meet them maybe in a hall and address all their complaints and questions???

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## Blurock

> Slave trade was never a choice but colour based. U were forced n sold 2 sum1. This is purely a choice. U not stealing anyone's money. U give ur money 2 sum1 n he returns more by 150%. its only a scam when sum1 is scammed.


What has slave trade and colour have to do with your choice to put your money into a dubious scheme and then try to entice other people to do the same? Get real!

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## Mathebuj

I thought when SSS100 started this topic, he wanted to know if there are people who have done this as he was referred by a friend of a friend. When I post that I have done it and have received money back and made more, this to alot of you means i am promoting others to do it. It seems to me because the idea seems too good to be true it deserves condemnation even if there is not a single person who has been scammed yet. I am not even trying to ask anyone to put money in but was merely responding to the post and that I know it works and i know more people who have put a lot money in this and so far they getting their earnings as promised. i did my checks with SARS, bank, CIPRO to determine validity of the company to my satisfaction before putting money and am personally ok doing business with them. I have also visited their head office in century city in Cape town to chat to them. It doesnt mean that the rest of SA must do it either. I satisfied my conscious that I can put money and I did.

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## vieome

What does the company do to generate such huge profits? If an investor is not interested in how such a huge amount of interest is generated as long as it is generated, that is where my problem lies with the scheme. That is what I say saying happened in the trade of slaves, people made a choice to invested their money in the exploitation of others, no one forced them to invest in the trade of slaves they simply made that choice because they were lacking in moral fiber and focused on the huge returns. My point is in chasing huge returns on investment where do you draw the line. Hypothetical If a given  scheme is taking your money and putting it into the trade of slaves and giving you huge returns would you still invest.    

Are you not at all interested in how the interest is generated.

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## Mathebuj

The misunderstanding is that u make 150% in 75 days, which is incorrect. U only make 50% after 75 days of ur original deposit. Like i said, i engaged them until i was satisfied they making their money legit. After all i doubt that big corporate giants like Standard bank, vodacom, telkom, MTN wouldnt allow doing business with sum1 involved in slave trading or anything illegal would they?

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## Chrisjan B

Are you saying that big corporate giants is involved in this scheme?

MTN for instance is not above board as they are paying bribes in Iran....

Telkom is fighting to keep it's monopoly...

The mystery deepens...

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## vieome

> The misunderstanding is that u make 150% in 75 days, which is incorrect. U only make 50% after 75 days of ur original deposit. Like i said, i engaged them until i was satisfied they making their money legit. After all i doubt that big corporate giants like Standard bank, vodacom, telkom, MTN wouldnt allow doing business with sum1 involved in slave trading or anything illegal would they?




You say they make their money legit, but still cant provide information on how they make their money. What is their core business, are they in mining? dealing in stocks, playing the money market? how are they making the money? 


Do you at least have a general idea of how they make the money?

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## Citizen X

> You say they make their money legit, but still cant provide information on how they make their money. What is their core business, are they in mining? dealing in stocks, playing the money market? how are they making the money? 
> 
> 
> Do you at least have a general idea of how they make the money?


Vieome raises pertinent questions, consequently I too would like answers on these questions please??

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Mabiblos (21-Feb-13)

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## Mathebuj

From moral point of view, there are gorvenments invading other regimes to build their economies, there are mines making billions of profits while poor miners loose their lives everyday & poorly paid too, the list deepens too..... Does this stop investers doing business with them? How many people stopped using MTN after the IRAN scandal? How many people boycotted America and still do today? I know it doesnt make it right but from your point arguing you will find it very difficult to invest. because even banks in general are skimming u of your money, from bank fees to interest earned with your money. How much does Old Mutual make with your policy investment vs what they give u at the end of the month? The bank makes more with your 32 day notice account than what they give you....

Lets leave politics out of this. You choose whether you do this or not. Do your own research and make a call. I was only testifying it works. If I find out they are supporting some civil war somewhere in Africa, I would do what is morally correct and pull off. right now everone is speculating that they must be dpoing illegitimate business because of their returns. There traders out there who make over 200% profits a day from Forex or share trading, that doesnt make it illegitimate. 




> Are you saying that big corporate giants is involved in this scheme?
> 
> MTN for instance is not above board as they are paying bribes in Iran....
> 
> Telkom is fighting to keep it's monopoly...
> 
> The mystery deepens...

----------

Dave A (21-Feb-13), Mabiblos (21-Feb-13)

----------


## vieome

Good Luck and God Bless!

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## Dave A

> After all i doubt that big corporate giants like Standard bank, vodacom, telkom, MTN wouldnt allow doing business with sum1 involved in slave trading or anything illegal would they?





> Good Luck and God Bless!


Yeah - my thought exactly. It is a cracker of a point  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## IanF

I looked at the website and couldn't work out what they sold?
Can you tell me.

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## Citizen X

> I looked at the website and couldn't work out what they sold?
> Can you tell me.


I too would like this fundamental question to be answered!

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## Blurock

So you can not answer the questions raised regarding the legitimacy of this business or what they actually do. Any one can register and start a business. That does not make it legitimate. Have you checked with the Financial Services board to see whether they have been registered? This is certainly a pre-requisite to taking deposits.

A Ponzi scheme is an illegal investment scheme where investors are lured by high rates of return with apparent low risk.
Earlier or first mover investors get paid from money raised, not from company profits, but from new investors recruited.
Investors receive high payouts and share their excitement with family and friends, who also become new investors. Investors are comforted by regular payouts and other confidence tricks. They are lulled into a state of trust and complacency (and greed) and invest even more, including their last payout or "interest" earned. 

The scheme eventually collapses when (a) there is not enough new investors to con and not enough new money is flowing into the system. (b) A number of investors cash out, leaving a cash hole in the scheme (money not being re-invested). (c) The organiser cashes out and runs away with the money. People will only realise days or weeks later that they have been conned. Some will only read about it in the newspapers.

A pyramid scheme works on the same principle, but the big difference is that the organiser does not control all the funds. In a Ponzi scheme the crooks have all the money and distribute enough to keep the scheme going until they are ready to cash out. In a Pyramid scheme each investor benefits directly from the number of investors recruited below them. (as in most MLM schemes) The person on top does not at any time have control or access to all the money in the system, but benefits the most, due to the number of contributors below him. 

A scheme is NOT a business. It is a scheme to scam you! Both Ponzi and Pyramid schemes, eventually collapse as soon as there isn't enough money to go around.

Caveat Emptor. :Batman: 

http://www.fin24.com/Money/Investmen...cheme-20121210

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## Darkangelyaya

They sell points that may be used to attend training or seminars on eft (emotional freedom technique) / tapping, and are explicitly warned against promoting/ advertising this as an investment opportunity. Yet, the greed always kicks in. 
But maybe I'm just jealous.

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## IanF

> They sell points that may be used to attend training or seminars on eft (emotional freedom technique) / tapping, and are explicitly warned against promoting/ advertising this as an investment opportunity. Yet, the greed always kicks in. 
> But maybe I'm just jealous.


OK have any of the participants been to a seminar? 
Can they share what is special about it?

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## Darkangelyaya

> OK have any of the participants been to a seminar? 
> Can they share what is special about it?


I doubt anyone has been.
However, eft is a valuable and effective therapy for training yourself into using more effective methods of dealing with emotional issues. I have used it and still do, as part of my alternative cancer-fighting protocol.

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## zobs

Mathebuj, what do mean when you say, you lost your cash deposit after 75 days( Are you saying you lost the 100K you started with?) please ellaborate.

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## zobs

> @MathebuJ. How do you get another R315 000 if you deposited only R100 000? To my understand you can only make R150 000 on the 75th day if you did not buy extra point.


Properly he's been buying points, it is possible. Like me I started with R60 000 I am hoping to make about R250 000 if possible.

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## zobs

> Even if this dude invested R100k in the beginning of Nov '12, he would have only completed one cycle of 75 days, i.e. made R150k, according to all their stats, and would be around halfway through the second cycle of 75 days. Assuming he put his 150k straight back in, by around the end of March, he would have only made R275k, unless he started using compound interest on his first term, in which case none of the money would actually be available to him at the moment. Which means he has made nothing, it's all still at risk, while he's happily grinning at numbers on a screen.


Darka What if he's been buyin points? remember he says he started with R100k, 1point = R100: R100k/R100 = 1000points x R2 daily earnings = 2000( profit earnings that he gets daily).
Imagine if he has been buying points 2000 points daily with his earnings from Nov12. It can be possible that he has made that R315k. I am standing to corrected.

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## zobs

> you buy a point for R100. every point makes u R2 per day. monday they dont pay plus a day after a public holiday. every point can only make u R150 (R2 X 75 days), then that point expires. otherwise they pay consistently 6 days a week. If you include commissions, then it should make sense how my money got to R315K in 3 months. What u must note though is that after 75 days you lose the cash deposit or basically the points purchased at the beginning of the 75 days and you left with earnings or points bought with earnings.


Are you saying you basically lost 100k?

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## zobs

> From moral point of view, there are gorvenments invading other regimes to build their economies, there are mines making billions of profits while poor miners loose their lives everyday & poorly paid too, the list deepens too..... Does this stop investers doing business with them? How many people stopped using MTN after the IRAN scandal? How many people boycotted America and still do today? I know it doesnt make it right but from your point arguing you will find it very difficult to invest. because even banks in general are skimming u of your money, from bank fees to interest earned with your money. How much does Old Mutual make with your policy investment vs what they give u at the end of the month? The bank makes more with your 32 day notice account than what they give you....
> 
> Lets leave politics out of this. You choose whether you do this or not. Do your own research and make a call. I was only testifying it works. If I find out they are supporting some civil war somewhere in Africa, I would do what is morally correct and pull off. right now everone is speculating that they must be dpoing illegitimate business because of their returns. There traders out there who make over 200% profits a day from Forex or share trading, that doesnt make it illegitimate.


Mathebuj: God for us all and Man for himself( simple means no one is putting a gun on someone elses head forcing them to join, one does it because they know the riks involved).

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## Darkangelyaya

> Darka What if he's been buyin points? remember he says he started with R100k, 1point = R100: R100k/R100 = 1000points x R2 daily earnings = 2000( profit earnings that he gets daily).
> Imagine if he has been buying points 2000 points daily with his earnings from Nov12. It can be possible that he has made that R315k. I am standing to corrected.


This is what I meant with 'compound interest'. The point is that if he keeps on buying points with his earnings, he effectively 'locks up' all his 'profit' as well as his whole 'investment' for a period of 75 days. From today, and from tomorrow, and from the day after that, etc. This means that he cannot access his cash, and should the system crash, he would lose everything. If it's not cold hard cash in your hand, or (maybe) in your bank account, it's not yours.

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zobs (22-Feb-13)

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## SSS100

True, and I can't believe one can claim to have made money if its still not in your position...either under your bed or bank
I mean, looking at the available money on Internet system that u can not control is not something to be certain of
As much as I did join that program, I'm very realistic about the possibilities open to such types

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zobs (22-Feb-13)

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## Blurock

Buying points? What is a point? How do you manufacture a point? What do you do with a point?This is all smoke and mirrors.

Look at my earlier post and explanation of what a Ponzi scheme is. :Batman:

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## zobs

> This is what I meant with 'compound interest'. The point is that if he keeps on buying points with his earnings, he effectively 'locks up' all his 'profit' as well as his whole 'investment' for a period of 75 days. From today, and from tomorrow, and from the day after that, etc. This means that he cannot access his cash, and should the system crash, he would lose everything. If it's not cold hard cash in your hand, or (maybe) in your bank account, it's not yours.


OH well lets wait and see, but let us all not be negative towards the whole thing(The "SECRET" = IF WE ARE NEGATIVE, WE ATTRACT ALL THE NEGATIVE ELEMENTS) :Cool:  :Cool:  :Bananadance:

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## Blurock

> OH well lets wait and see, but let us all not be negative towards the whole thing(The "SECRET" = IF WE ARE NEGATIVE, WE ATTRACT ALL THE NEGATIVE ELEMENTS)


...and if you keep sticking your head in the sand and ignore the fact that this is a Ponzi scheme, you will end up losing all. Get out while you can.

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## SSS100

Fully agree with blurock, and its what I did.
Took a chance, got my money bak with whatever small return n went out
Otherwise I stand a chance to lose even that small money I made, there's no way of telling when this thing will collapse

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Blurock (22-Feb-13)

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## Dave A

> Mathebuj, what do mean when you say, you lost your cash deposit after 75 days( Are you saying you lost the 100K you started with?) please ellaborate.


I think I can clear that one up.

You put in R100k.
The headline interest rate advertised is 2% per day, thus arriving at R150k, but further down it states that this includes your original capital.

Ultimately it boils down to you get 50% growth on your capital over 75 days.
At least until the scheme collapses, or gets bust, or the big boss does a runner with everyone's money.

 :Hmmm:  Mind you, the way it's presented does raise an interesting point, though. 

Technically, the day it stops - If you'd put in R100k the day before, the scheme only owes you 2% of that i.e R2k. You wouldn't be able to claim for the R100k you put in...

Food for thought!

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## Mathebuj

Alexander Forbes manages pension & provident funds for some of the big employers in SA. My employer also uses them. They  also use a point system. Your monthly deductions buys you points on their pension scheme at abt R250 a point. And the total number of points earns u certain returns a month or per year. A point is treated similar to a share but mainly an administration mean to know how much interest is due per person. They take ur money and invest in shares, forex, property or even bonds...



> Buying points? What is a point? How do you manufacture a point? What do you do with a point?This is all smoke and mirrors.
> 
> Look at my earlier post and explanation of what a Ponzi scheme is.

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## Mathebuj

Honestly speaking, there are risks in a lot of business ventures today. The advise I always give people who want to try this scheme is to only put money they can afford to loose. But then, you withdraw all your daily earnings for the first 2 months in order to get your capital back. This is easy given that you should be making 50% earnings per month. You can then use the last 25 days of the 75 days to compound your earnings to keep playing to minimise risks as clearly mentioned by other members on this forum. But obviously you still have the first 2 months which your risk is higher. However, this scheme was not started yesterday but has 2 years or so running, so you could take comfort that no one has lost their money since, so maybe you wont loose yours. If that is still way too risky for you, then you simply dont participate.

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## IanF

@Mathebuj, looks like you are aware of the risk. Is there a risk if this fails that you will have to payback what you have already banked?
I seem to remember with one of the pyramid schemes this happened but I can't be sure.

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## IanF

OK I found a link to refunding pyramid scheme payouts. Link 
"If an investment looks just a bit too profitable, tread very carefully - you risk losing it all!"

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## Mathebuj

I cannot tell everyone that this scheme is not a ponzi or it wont collapse tomorrow or next month as I dont work for Net Income Solutions. However, I take comfort that i know people who have been part of this since January 2012 and up to today, they still making their 50% profits every 75 days. Maybe it will collapse someday, but even if it does I wouldnt loose anything given I have withdrawn more than I put in. If you new and think of trying, you need to get over the fact of loosing your money before you cash-out your capital. The other side of the coin is obviously about what if it never crashes? You might feel that you waisted an oppotunity to make easy money. All you can do is to be cautious about how you see it and all is up to you. We humans and we view risks differently and some are scared of tking risks than others. Some people started with R4million others R1million into the scheme, while other cautious individuals only R100K and others a lot less. so its up to you....

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## Mathebuj

> @Mathebuj, looks like you are aware of the risk. Is there a risk if this fails that you will have to payback what you have already banked?
> I seem to remember with one of the pyramid schemes this happened but I can't be sure.


Am fully aware of the risks. The same way am aware of the risk of the banking indusrty collapsing one day with lots of our money. The same way am awre that even buying shares from blue chip companies might result in me loosing all of my money. I just dont think there is a risk free investment unless you keep cash in your house, oh wait, we in SA where crime is high, even that is way too risky.

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## Citizen X

> Honestly speaking, there are risks in a lot of business ventures today. *The advise I always give people who want to try this scheme is to only put money they can afford to loose. But then, you withdraw all your daily earnings for the first 2 months in order to get your capital back.* This is easy given that you should be making 50% earnings per month. You can then use the last 25 days of the 75 days to compound your earnings to keep playing to minimise risks as clearly mentioned by other members on this forum. But obviously you still have the first 2 months which your risk is higher. However, this scheme was not started yesterday but has 2 years or so running, so you could take comfort that no one has lost their money since, so maybe you wont loose yours. If that is still way too risky for you, then you simply dont participate.


Therein lies your problem!! You not an accredited and regisitered financial services provider but you are giving finacial advise!! This is actually illegal!! You must be an accredited and regisitered financial service provider to advise anyone in SA on any financial matter whatsoever!!!! Let me retract that momentarily:* Are you as Mathebuj an accredited and registered financial services provider???? If not why are you giving financial related advise????*

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## Mathebuj

@vanash; the forum requires people who have done this to comment on their experiences and views on the matter concerned. If u view my experience as official financial advise service to the public, then u wrong. Otherwise the originator of this topic which is a financial topic should have indicated that only accreditated financial advisers should comment. What is flawed abt my advice anyway to a friend who asks me abt how to avert risks in a scheme am participating in?

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## Dave A

> I cannot tell everyone that this scheme is not a ponzi or it wont collapse tomorrow or next month as I dont work for Net Income Solutions. However, I take comfort that i know people who have been part of this since January 2012 and up to today, they still making their 50% profits every 75 days. Maybe it will collapse someday, but even if it does I wouldnt loose anything given I have withdrawn more than I put in. If you new and think of trying, you need to get over the fact of loosing your money before you cash-out your capital. The other side of the coin is obviously about what if it never crashes? You might feel that you waisted an oppotunity to make easy money. All you can do is to be cautious about how you see it and all is up to you. We humans and we view risks differently and some are scared of tking risks than others. Some people started with R4million others R1million into the scheme, while other cautious individuals only R100K and others a lot less. so its up to you....


 :Hmmm: 

Full of assurances.
Interestingly worded unsolicited denial.
Uses FOMO.
Escalates the numbers.
And has previously demonstrated very intelligent rationalisation on the subject.

You certainly seem to have the tools - Any chance we're communicating with the mastermind behind this little enterprise here?

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## SSS100

Hi Dave, I think I prev indicated my request to have the post blocked if its causing inconvenience or misused in anyway

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## Dave A

> Therein lies your problem!! You not an accredited and regisitered financial services provider but you are giving finacial advise!! This is actually illegal!! You must be an accredited and regisitered financial service provider to advise anyone in SA on any financial matter whatsoever!!!! Let me retract that momentarily:* Are you as Mathebuj an accredited and registered financial services provider???? If not why are you giving financial related advise????*


So if I say "Don't do it", does that also constitute financial advice for which I'd have to be an accredited financial adviser?

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## Chrisjan B

This thread now getting very interesting...indeed!

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## Dave A

> Hi Dave, I think I prev indicated my request to have the post blocked if its causing inconvenience or misused in anyway


But it's getting so interesting  :Devil2: 

More seriously, my view hasn't changed. As long as no-one starts shooting at the bathroom door, we should be fine.

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## Blurock

> Am fully aware of the risks. The same way am aware of the risk of the banking indusrty collapsing one day with lots of our money. The same way am awre that even buying shares from blue chip companies might result in me loosing all of my money. I just dont think there is a risk free investment unless you keep cash in your house, oh wait, we in SA where crime is high, even that is way too risky.


There' a difference between risk and blatant racketeering. With a bank you deal with an organisation registered with the FSB. The industry is regulated and there are many checks and balances. When you buy shares in blue chip companies you at least have access to their financials, their premises their telephone numbers and a host of other information to assist you in your decision. You also know who their shareholders and directors are. 

Please give me the same information on this Ponzi scheme. The me who the directors and shareholders are. Can they be held accountable? No? So how can you justify your involvement in this scheme if you know that its illegal?

Your scheme is like buying a torn condom from a sleezeball in the alley, just before visiting the brothel. :Batman:

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Chrisjan B (22-Feb-13), Citizen X (22-Feb-13)

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## Citizen X

> So if I say "Don't do it", does that also constitute financial advice for which I'd have to be an accredited financial adviser?


A very good afternoon Boss,
TouchéIve come to appreciate that when interacting with you Boss, Im interacting with the equivalent of Plato.
*Philosophically the one, advising to and the other advising not to is no better or no worse, really the same difference..I think here one has to look to The Financial Advisory and Intermediary Services Act 37 of 2002 and maybe even 1 or 2 more Acts*

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Chrisjan B (22-Feb-13)

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## Citizen X

> Hi Dave, I think I prev indicated my request to have the post blocked if its causing inconvenience or misused in anyway






> But it's getting so interesting



Indeed it is Boss, indeed!!! This is unfolding rather nicely!



> There' a difference between risk and blatant racketeering. With a bank you deal with an organisation registered with the FSB. The industry is regulated and there are many checks and balances. When you buy shares in blue chip companies you at least have access to their financials, their premises their telephone numbers and a host of other information to assist you in your decision. You also know who their shareholders and directors are.



How very true BLurock



> Please give me the same information on this Ponzi scheme. The me who the directors and shareholders are. Can they be held accountable? No? So how can you justify your involvement in this scheme if you know that its illegal



I can’t but agree, there’s just so many question marks here!





> Your scheme is like buying a torn condom from a sleezeball in the alley, just before visiting the brothel.




Now this is a metaphor that I simply have to commit to memory! I like it!

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## kimzaza

> But it's getting so interesting 
> 
> More seriously, my view hasn't changed. As long as no-one starts shooting at the bathroom door, we should be fine.


i agree with you dave coz as im saying i also joined this defencex and its paying me..... i would also like to share with the ppl if things don't go well in future.... so this post must not get closed

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## kimzaza

> Hi Vanash,
> think of it like betting on a horse race...your horse wins, you cash in..And your horse lose, you can't claim from race court owners
> 
> And, i assume its common knowledge that the higher the risk, the higher the rewerad
> Hence bank rate is lower than such things as defencex...there's a lot of such internet income generation schemes around
> http://defencexbeststrategy.wozaonline.co.za/products
> https://www.profitablesunrise.com/?upline=netbiz


how does this profitable sunrise work?

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## kimzaza

> Well I sent an email through to "HQ" with the hope that I will be helped but instead was given a name of some guy I don't know and haven't met to join under him....hmmm...why would I want to do that. I want to be my own tree and have branches from me.


why you don't want to join under someone coz its not like you heard about it from no one

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## Chrisjan B

One more indication of a possible pyramid scheme..... 

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

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## kimzaza

> I wonder how many of these risk takers will be so open and up front to admit when they realise that they have been scammed.


well i will be the first to tell when i am scammed.... i promise you

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## kimzaza

> Good evening Boss,
> 
> It is in the public interest!I doubt however that the 22 000 visits to this thread yileded in 22000 investments into this concept. I think people are now starting to ask questions! This is a good thing. I look forward to complaints about this concept! If anyone out there has any complaints, please post them here.. I will never endorse this concept...If it works for you, that all good and well, *but, should you represent to another individual that this concept will work for them and it doesn't work, it may be opening a media floodgate that you never anticipated!!!*


vanash just wait and see... one year....two years...five years... we will be eating money

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## Chrisjan B

And the fun has started, or ended? :Confused: 

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme

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## Darkangelyaya

> And the fun has started, or ended?
> 
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme



Looks like the scheme's crashed. Comments, 'investors'?

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## Blurock

> On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.


So who has lost money on this scheme? Will you be brave enough to admit? :Console:

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## Chrisjan B

Waiting with bathed breath....
Will be a while probably as there will no money for Internet!

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## SSS100

Wala, anyone still had money in there?
I said it before, this is the type of thing that u get in ... Make what you can and get out
Don't try and fill 20 bags with money, that's when u lose

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## Darkangelyaya

> Wala, anyone still had money in there?
> I said it before, this is the type of thing that u get in ... Make what you can and get out
> Don't try and fill 20 bags with money, that's when u lose


So, seems you were lucky. My house needs a new roof , interested to sponsor the re-build? Come on.... we wanna know how much you made!

So from the non-members browsing,,, how much did you lose?

*Sidenote: Am I happy that it was shut down as it's illegal? Nope, I'm jealous of what others made, therefore I'm glad it's over.* (Sometimes human nature sucks, said the scorpion to the dying frog)
'

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## IanF

> Wala, anyone still had money in there?
> I said it before, this is the type of thing that u get in ... Make what you can and get out
> Don't try and fill 20 bags with money, that's when u lose


I would just be wary about the liquidators coming after you if it is declared illegal. My reading is this is a possibility.

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## vieome

Shame I feel sorry for them that lost, after boasting so much about winning. Worse still I am sure that their friends and family they encouraged to join are very mad at them. Well you live and learn, now they all understand what it means

When it is too good to be true

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## Pfuma

Yes is our loss. i have just called the Western Cape High Court the secretary of the judge agrees that there was an urgent order that was placed before the judge in which he made a ruling, in this case an interdict. My hard earned cash gone. i have just made a withdrawal yesterday and i am wondering if i am gonna get my money since the interdict was effected immediately to Standard Bank and Net Income Solutions. Whew!!!!!

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## Citizen X

> And the fun has started, or ended?
> 
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme


Chrismine you have vindicated those of us who opposed this scheme!!
*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.*JOHANNESBURG – The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells “points” for R100 apiece. These points “earn” 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencex’s bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: “The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.”
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencex’s Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of “emotional freedom” products and services. The Defencex website warns: “Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.”
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
“Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.”
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
“Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?”
And Eunice Valovi posted:
“This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money.”"


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

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## Citizen X

> how does this profitable sunrise work?


*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.

*JOHANNESBURG  The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells points for R100 apiece. These points earn 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencexs Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of emotional freedom products and services. The Defencex website warns: Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?
And Eunice Valovi posted:
This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money."


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## Citizen X

> Am fully aware of the risks. The same way am aware of the risk of the banking indusrty collapsing one day with lots of our money. The same way am awre that even buying shares from blue chip companies might result in me loosing all of my money. I just dont think there is a risk free investment unless you keep cash in your house, oh wait, we in SA where crime is high, even that is way too risky.


*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.

*JOHANNESBURG  The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells points for R100 apiece. These points earn 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencexs Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of emotional freedom products and services. The Defencex website warns: Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?
And Eunice Valovi posted:
This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money."


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## Citizen X

> Hi, i have been following your conversation about defencex, i have also taken a calculated risk by joining. I am earning daily. What is good for me is that so many people have joined under me and that is making me to receive a lot of commission, 10 percent of every deposit my direct recruit deposit. I have at this stage received more than what i put in


*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.

*JOHANNESBURG  The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells points for R100 apiece. These points earn 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencexs Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of emotional freedom products and services. The Defencex website warns: Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?
And Eunice Valovi posted:
This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money."


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## Citizen X

> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have just joined this forum today because of i am in a quest to find out Net Income Solutions in real or not. I am happy to have read some of responses on the question posted by SSS100. I have discovered the scheme in January 2013, by the explanation and my confirmation on how it works on internet, i took a great risk of joining it. I have deposited R10 000 from which i am expected to make a profit of R5000 by the end of 75 days from the date of investment. Thus far im getting my R200 daily, i have even transfered some money from the scheme to my bank account and it was reall money. I wanna test this to the last day in which my capital is paid back to me and my profit. Thus far i am convinced hence the risk i took but i will be more convinced to tell my other friends only when i have my capital back. If is a scam, early investors will benefits but when it begins to be overcrowded it will collapse. So for me, the sooner the better, i thought. if i loose, im not gonna hang myself because i know what i got myself into. Much interesting about it, you dont get paid by number of people you have recruited, it is just a once off payment of 10% of the money you deposited that goes to your referer and it never gets deducted from your capital at all. I think if there is anyone with experience of not getting back his/her money, it will be highly appreciated to share the experience. *thus far there is nothing negative i can say about the schem*.


*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.

*JOHANNESBURG  The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells points for R100 apiece. These points earn 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencexs Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of emotional freedom products and services. The Defencex website warns: Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?
And Eunice Valovi posted:
This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money."


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## Citizen X

> My name is sanele, i have been following the convesation abwt net income solution (DeffendanceX)
> its changed my life a lot. i just purchised a new car and a house with a money that i have made in this past year. life is all about risk, soon as u live your house.


*"Registrar of Banks takes action after receiving complaints and enquiries from the public.

*JOHANNESBURG  The Western Cape High Court has frozen the bank accounts connected to a scheme called Defencex. The money-scheme has lured thousands of clients from all over the country with its promises of high returns. Defencex sells points for R100 apiece. These points earn 2%, or R2, a day for 75 days, at which point they can be withdrawn.
Defencex is a trading name for Net Income Solutions, a close corporation with one member, Chris Walker (pictured below). Walker, 46, is no stranger to controversy. His previous scheme, Gold Charity Fund Investments, was reportedly declared an unfair business practice back in 2002. Walker was accused of operating a pyramid scheme which abused the name and image of former president Nelson Mandela.
This week some Defencex clients were complaining on Facebook that banks would no longer accept their deposits. Moneyweb asked Deputy Registrar of Banks Michael Blackbeard whether any action had been taken against the scheme.
Blackbeard responded that auditors PWC had recently been appointed to investigate Net Income Solutions/Defencex following complaints and enquiries received from members of the public.
On Thursday morning the Registrar of Banks applied to the Western Cape High Court for an interim order interdicting Net Income Solutions/Defencex from continuing its deposit-taking activities. The order was granted, and has effectively frozen Defencexs bank accounts. A copy of the order can be downloaded here.
Says Blackbeard: The court granted a return date of 25 March 2013 for Mr Walker etc. to show good cause why the orders should not be made final.
Blackbeard says he is unable to divulge further information as he is awaiting the final report from PWC.
At the time of writing, neither Chris Walker nor Defencex had responded to requests for comment. A request was made on Wednesday via Defencexs Facebook page, and on Thursday via e-mail.
The scheme supposedly revolves around the sale of emotional freedom products and services. The Defencex website warns: Any reference to specific levels of earning on this website are for the purpose of explaining the compensation plan only and are not projections. Your actual income will depend upon the success of your marketing efforts and of those you introduce to the program and on the overall profitability of the company.
But few of the members appear to care about the products on offer. It is the income opportunity that is the primary attraction.
Comments (unedited) on the Defencex Facebook page indicate the hope the scheme has created for its members. For example, Nomsa Mahlangu wrote:
Thanx to Thembi Mathebula for telling about defencex now i can make my dreams come true and studying at the same time. u the star babs.
Some members refused to heed the warnings of the sceptics. Thabisile Magoboza wrote:
Today @work our management inform us not to join, i just laugh alone willing to buy points while reading her email. Im so proud to b the part of this Defence. Dont u think theres sumthing worry about?
And Eunice Valovi posted:
This topic of Chris defrauding us is becoming boring. Enjoy your money people. they don't have money, they are jealous. today I woke up @6 and found that my profit was paid and I didn't even have 2 wotk 4 it while they go 2 work everyday and earn peanus that jealosy. if it makes u feel better don't buy point 4 75days and take u're money and profit and let us enjoy our money."


Source of article and picture:

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## SSS100

Yep, i guess we all knew it will come sooner or later

----------


## Citizen X

> Yep, i guess we all knew it will come sooner or later


The only place you going to find success before work is in the English dictionary! Nothing X Nothing is still nothing!!!
 0 X 0 = 0
At least, in your case, you have placed on record that disgruntled investors *may not visit you* for answers! You done a very wise thing!

----------


## SSS100

Yes Vanash, I had my reservarions about this thing, and the inputs from you and team made it clear as well that one must safegurad one's self and take pre-caution

----------


## Citizen X

> Yes Vanash, I had my reservarions about this thing, and the inputs from you and team made it clear as well that one must safegurad one's self and take pre-caution


Good afternoon SSS100 :Wink: ,

I do understand your position :Wink: . *In fairness to you, you have made it clear* that you not a spokeperson for this concept, you not part of the organisation and that you merely asking questions.
*Knowing our South African people* as I do, when they start asking for residential addresses, they only want to come as a very large group to that residential address, have some tea with the person who has led them astray and talk about things in a rational, civilised and very peaceful way :Wink:  :Wink: 
To be a TFSA member*(according to me)* does bring with such membership a fair degree of ethics and social responsibility. You simply must appreciate that this record stands forever *(relative to how long forever is*). Best practice will then dictate that one takes an outlook of ethical practice, professionalism. Profession stems from the latin word ‘Professio,’ *which means to make a public statement and promise*. This is just my 2 cents, but I’m confident that many other TFSA members share the same ethos. 
The vast majority of TFSA members*(according to me)* are very much aware that we can be traced and many of us are not even hiding our addresses and such other contact details away. That of-course depends on each individual member...

----------


## Dave A

Not really the time to celebrate being right, I'm afraid. I always feel sorry for the losers at times like these.

----------


## Citizen X

> Not really the time to celebrate being right, I'm afraid. I always feel sorry for the losers at times like these.


So very true boss

----------


## Darkangelyaya

Am I correct in assuming that proceeds from a crime may be attached by the State? Does it apply here to the investors?

----------


## Chrisjan B

Very much possible! 

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

----------


## Citizen X

Fx#@#xc?D~

Oh no, I guess I never thought about that, should thecourt find that a crime has been committed, my new house and car may just be declared the proceeds of crime! I really hope that no criminal charges are brought


They told me I must have at least 1o $ to invest, I said, I only have 10 cents, at least my 2 cents prevented me from investing hehe

what to do

*Should criminal charges* be brought , and a verdict of guilty granted, then yes, proceeds of crimes can be attached by the state. We haven't reached that stage as yet. I'm confident that investigations of some sort are underway... Difficult to say if criminal charges will be brought...

----------


## IanF

> OK I found a link to refunding pyramid scheme payouts. *Link* 
> "If an investment looks just a bit too profitable, tread very carefully - you risk losing it all!"


Here is a link posted earlier in the thread your payouts could be recalled.  LINK Basson Blackburn

----------


## Citizen X

> Here is a link posted earlier in the thread your payouts could be recalled. LINK Basson Blackburn





> *PYRAMID SCHEMES - THE REPAYMENT RISK (AND INNOCENCE IS IRRELEVANT!)* 
> 
> A pyramid scheme must, by definition, eventually collapse; leaving (statistically) up to 88% of investors queuing for whatever the liquidator is able to recover for them from the perpetrators. 
> 
> Even those investors who "got out early" can expect a claim for repayment from the liquidator, and a recent High Court judgment illustrates the dangers of investing in any scheme that looks suspiciously profitable, even if the investment is made entirely innocently (that is, without any knowledge that it is going into a pyramid scheme). 
> 
> Ordering an investor to refund to the liquidator all monies that the scheme had distributed to him prior to liquidation (a total of R549.500, being both capital invested, and interest accrued thereon), the Court commented that it was irrelevant whether or not the investor "may have been unaware that an offence was being committed by the payer". The whole business activity of the scheme being unlawful, repayments could never have been made "in the ordinary course of business" (which would have validated them). 
> 
> If an investment looks just a bit too profitable, tread very carefully - you risk losing it all


Source:
http://www.bassonblackburn.com/news-attorneys-sep.html
Accessed 1 March 2013

----------


## Citizen X

What is an ex parte application? 

Well Father Ted,
1. It will help some if you could download the court order found at this link

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzvgHbVjpjvxeUsxaTZ2T1dMdmc/edit?usp=sharing

2. You download it by choosing the print ribbon, then print as adobe/pdf
3. Firstly, we need to distinguish between action proceedings and application proceedings. Action proceeding are characterized by summons, pleadings and a trial whereas application proceedings are brought by way of a notice of motion supported by affidavit;
4. There are different types of motion proceedings Ex Parte applications, ordinary applications and Urgent applications;
5. From the court order it would appear that an urgent application was brought.
6. The uniform rules of court aka  ‘*RULES REGULATING THE CONDUCT OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE SEVERAL PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL DIVISIONS OF THE HIGH COURT OF SOUTH AFRICA,’ is applicable here in particular rule 6(1)(a)*
*7. Rule 6(1)(a) of the Uniform Rules state, “*Save where proceedings by way of petition are prescribed by law, every application shall be brought on notice of motion supported by an affidavit as to the facts upon which the applicant relies for relief.”
8. There are various other procedures that need to be complied with for an ex parte application but if it’s brought on an urgent basis as was the case here then rule6(12) finds reference which provides that “In urgent applications the court or a judge may dispense with the forms and service provided for in these Rules and may dispose of such matter at such time and place and in such manner and in accordance with such procedure (which shall as far as practicable be in terms of these Rules) as to it seems meet.”



What is this rule nisi?
Well Mr’s Doyl,

1.  The Rule Nisi is simply a court order which calls on the respondent or respondents as the case may be to show good cause on a fixed day in the order. This is known as the return day of the rule nisi. Should the respondent fail to show good cause on this day that the order becomes final. It’s currently an interim order , it will become final on 26 March 2013

----------


## Blurock

> Not really the time to celebrate being right, I'm afraid. I always feel sorry for the losers at times like these.


Correction; no losers - just people driven by greed. They were warned, they knew what they let themselves in for and they were adamant to continue with the scheme.  :Slap:

----------


## Darkangelyaya

I have to say, I feel really sorry for some of the people, especially on the facebook page. It is clear that most of them do not understand what is happening, and also that some in the low income groups have been ruined. Having the history that I do, I know the kind of desperation that makes you do stupid things, when there just isn't money anywhere to lay your hands on, despite having worked your backside off...

DaveA / Vanash, I don't know if you facebook, but could you perhaps post something on that site that explains it to them, gently?

----------


## Blurock

People who start and/or promote schemes like this should be locked away immediately without the option of bail. Too many poor people, pensioners and those who can least afford it are being conned daily with a myriad of schemes. 

Why are people so gullible? You put burglar bars on your windows, but open your purse to a stranger. :Confused:

----------


## kimzaza

> Yep, i guess we all knew it will come sooner or later


yep say that again sss.... i also knew that the first day i put my money... i was aware that im taking a risk... even if i didn't get my capital i still dont feel sorry for myself ... i knew what i was doing. :Cool:   and well i haven't lost my hope yet coz the final will be done on the 26 march

----------


## kimzaza

> So who has lost money on this scheme? Will you be brave enough to admit?


its me  :Wave:   im brave enough to admit

----------

Blurock (02-Mar-13)

----------


## Help911

Bad news for those who invested: This company is under investigation! Possiblity that you will loose your whole investment is 99.9% inbox me if you want help!

----------


## Help911

There is a Lawyer acting on behalf of investors. If you would like his help let me know urgently.

----------


## Citizen X

> I have to say, I feel really sorry for some of the people, especially on the facebook page. It is clear that most of them do not understand what is happening, and also that some in the low income groups have been ruined. Having the history that I do, I know the kind of desperation that makes you do stupid things, when there just isn't money anywhere to lay your hands on, despite having worked your backside off...
> 
> DaveA / Vanash, I don't know if you facebook, but could you perhaps post something on that site that explains it to them, gently?


Good morning Carina,

No, I'm not on facebook, but it will help if you could post what Chris or Defensex is saying about this on their facebook page, this is now in the public interest

----------


## Citizen X

> yep say that again sss.... i also knew that the first day i put my money... i was aware that im taking a risk... even if i didn't get my capital i still dont feel sorry for myself ... i knew what i was doing. and well i haven't lost my hope yet coz the final will be done on the 26 march





In that case I have hope too, please sign me up immediately, I'll invest everything I have, a pair of socks with some goodies in it..

Photo source:http://www.google.co.za/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=mr+bean+photos&oq=mr+bean+photos&gs

----------


## Citizen X

> Bad news for those who invested: This company is under investigation! Possiblity that you will loose your whole investment is 99.9% inbox me if you want help!


I too would like to see what response Chris and company lodge on 26 March 2013! It will be interesting to see what happens to all those who received money i.e. new car, house etc. There is an audit trail, the relevant banks will be able to state with certainty who the beneficieries were.. Not entirely certain if a liquidator will will nominated. Really keen to see how this one unravels legally. I suspect the authorities want to set SA straight on investments such as these

----------


## Citizen X

> yep say that again sss.... i also knew that the first day i put my money... i was aware that im taking a risk... even if i didn't get my capital i still dont feel sorry for myself ... i knew what i was doing. and well i haven't lost my hope yet coz the final will be done on the 26 march


I suspect that this link may prove informative for you!
http://www.bassonblackburn.com/news-attorneys-sep.html

----------


## Citizen X

A friend on facebook just provided me with this, this is what Net income solutions or Defense x Sa is saying(well it's from Defensex Net income Solutions Facebook page, so the inference is reasonable that they saying this i.e. their response[please correct me if I'm wrong]):

“People be proud that this investigations are taking place as it will assure everyone that the company is operating legally and safe to put your money in, *and as we are Sponsor and not company owners we cannot answer* questions about how things are going right now, please be patient and understand
The Registrar of Banks has issued an order stating that we are conducting "the busuness of a bank" We are not allowed to accept or make payments from our account during their investigation, We will keep you informed of the progress.

If it is true that Chris walker is going to court on 25 March, All we have to do right now is to support him for Defencex to go on and grow stronger, ...coming up with negative thoughts will only make things worse, why are people saying they lost their money while the government is the one freezing the accounts? Who is to be blamed? over seas they have no problem with this kind of businesses since it is not a pyramid scheme, south african government have to understand that, our government have to give us answers on why they want to get us out of business since Defencex is not robbing anyone, so Defencex members if you think marching to the western cape high court or union building at pretoria will help then let's do that and let the Gov know that we need changes and tired of poverty, after all it is our money we are buying shares with...”

Source:
http://www.facebook.com/Cycle4Dollar...sor?ref=stream

----------


## Darkangelyaya

> Good morning Carina,
> No, I'm not on facebook, but it will help if you could post what Chris or Defensex is saying about this on their facebook page, this is now in the public interest


I'm not on facebook...  :Frown:

----------


## Darkangelyaya

The Sponsors referred to, are the upline individuals. They are not providing balanced and accurate info on fb, they are covering their own behinds.

----------


## Citizen X

> The Sponsors referred to, are the upline individuals. They are not providing balanced and accurate info on fb, they are covering their own behinds.


What does 'upline individuals,' mean?

----------


## Darkangelyaya

> What does 'upline individuals,' mean?


The top tier, people who have loads of others signed up under them. Most of whom they recruited.

----------


## Citizen X

> The top tier, people who have loads of others signed up under them. Most of whom they recruited.


Well, they've got PWC looking into this so they will get to the bottom of it. I'm really keen to see how this unravels...

----------


## mphoza

> So, seems you were lucky. My house needs a new roof , interested to sponsor the re-build? Come on.... we wanna know how much you made!
> 
> So from the non-members browsing,,, how much did you lose?
> 
> *Sidenote: Am I happy that it was shut down as it's illegal? Nope, I'm jealous of what others made, therefore I'm glad it's over.* (Sometimes human nature sucks, said the scorpion to the dying frog)
> '


well as much as many of us are happy, the thing is the scheme has not crushed. the registrar simply filed filed an application to protect the public. that is why the order gives mr walker an oppotunity to present forward the validity of his business by march 26. no one has lost his money as yet, the accounts hv just been freezed pending mr walker's presentation in court

----------


## Darkangelyaya

> well as much as many of us are happy, the thing is the scheme has not crushed. the registrar simply filed filed an application to protect the public. that is why the order gives mr walker an oppotunity to present forward the validity of his business by march 26. no one has lost his money as yet, the accounts hv just been freezed pending mr walker's presentation in court


Please read my comment again. I'm not happy...
But, seriously, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. It IS:
OVER,
ILLEGAL,
A NON-SUSTAINABLE PYRAMID SCHEME.
Please stop fooling yourself and misleading naive people.

----------


## Blurock

> well as much as many of us are happy, the thing is the scheme has not crushed. the registrar simply filed filed an application to protect the public. that is why the order gives mr walker an oppotunity to present forward the validity of his business by march 26. no one has lost his money as yet, the accounts hv just been freezed pending mr walker's presentation in court


What do the criminals always say? Innocent until proven guilty? My friend, if it walks like a rat and it smells like a rat, it probably is a rat!




> the registrar simply filed filed an application to protect the public.


 So why would he want to protect the public if it was a legal scheme? Don't be so naive and please don't fool yourself.

----------


## Citizen X

> well as much as many of us are happy, the thing is the scheme has not crushed. the registrar simply filed filed an application to protect the public. that is why the order gives mr walker an oppotunity to present forward the validity of his business by march 26. no one has lost his money as yet, the accounts hv just been freezed pending mr walker's presentation in court


Defiant to the bitter end! I like it! I'm keen to see how this unravels. In the one corner you have the Registrar of Banks, supported by PriceWaterHouseCoopers and in the other corner you have Mr Walker.. :Boxing:

----------


## BlueIvy

Hi Guys, m also one of the "investors" in the so called Net Income Solutions. I've made a lot of money since i joined in Oct and i was smart enough to deposit only R600 yet i managed to walk away with R9000 before the scheme 's account was frozen. I've always wondered where does all this money come from?

----------


## Citizen X

> Hi Guys, m also one of the "investors" in the so called Net Income Solutions. I've made a lot of money since i joined in Oct and i was smart enough to deposit only R600 yet i managed to walk away with R9000 before the scheme 's account was frozen. I've always wondered where does all this money come from?





> Comment: The following is inter alia the bulk of the court order(If 1 or 2 punctuation marks don't correspond 100% please accept my apology! You can download the court order at 
> Source of article:
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...efencex-scheme
> Source of court order
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzvgHbVjpjvxeUsxaTZ2T1dMdmc/edit?usp=sharing
> Accessed: 2 March 2013
> 
> 
> "2. A rule nisi do issue calling on the Respondents to show cause on the 26thday of March 2013 at 10h00 or as soon thereafter why an order in thefollowing terms should not be made:*ORDER AGAINST THE FIRST AND SECOND RESPONDENTS*3. The First and Second Respondents be prohibited from conducting _"the__business of a bank",_ in contravention of section 11(1) of the Banks Act,1990 {Act No. 94 of 1990 - Banks Act), by:
> ...


If you look at order no: 9, this may just have some implications! The way I see it they want a comprehensive list of all transactions and the banks are now ordered to do just that!

----------


## IanF

Vanash
That point 9 is interesting, first 12 hours is quick. It will be interesting to see if the investors are ordered to pay back. This then ups the risk with something like this.

----------


## Darkangelyaya

I read on News24 that more than R500million had been invested, but at the granting of the court order there was only R330 mill in the account.

----------


## Citizen X

> I read on News24 that more than R500million had been invested, but at the granting of the court order there was only R330 mill in the account.


*



“Money Making Scheme's account frozen


*


> Lewer KommentaarPost a Comment
> Deur: Adri van Zyl2013-03-01 21:30 By: Adri van Zyl 2013-03-01 21:30
> Johannesburg. Johannesburg. – Die Wes-Kaapse hooggeregshof het Donderdag 'n aansoek van die registrateur van banke toegestaan om die bankrekening van die geldmaakskema Net Income Solutions te bevries. The Western Cape High Court on Thursday granted an application by the registrar of banks to the bank account of the money-making scheme just Income Solutions to freeze. 
> 
> Net Income Solutions het sake gedoen as Defencex, wat na bewering strydig met die bepalings van die Bankwet geld van die publiek gewerf het. Net Income Solutions business done as Defencex, to allegedly inconsistent with the provisions of the Banking Act recruited from the public money. 
> 
> Die registrateur van banke het inspekteurs aangestel om die bedrywighede van Defencex te ondersoek nadat klagtes van die publiek ontvang is. The registrar of banks appointed inspectors to investigate the activities of Defencex after complaints from the public. 
> 
> Na verneem word, is R500 miljoen sedert verlede jaar in dié skema betaal en toe die aansoek gebring is om die bankrekening te bevries, was daar net R330 miljoen in die rekening oor. *Apparently, R500 million since last year in the scheme and pay the application made to the bank account frozen, there were just over R330 million in the account. 
> ...


Source:
http://m.news24.com/sake24/JouGeldsake/Geldmaakskema-se-rekening-bevries-20130301
Accessed 3 March 2013 

Some huge figures they talking about here!

----------


## Citizen X

> Vanash
> That point 9 is interesting, first 12 hours is quick. It will be interesting to see if the investors are ordered to pay back. This then ups the risk with something like this.


A very good afternoon to you Ian,
Yes, it will be very interesting to see how this unravels!

----------


## Darkangelyaya

OMG, this is terrible!
They reckon 178 000 people 'invested'.

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...larmed-at-cour

----------


## Pfuma

Morning Guys!

I just want to express my view on this Registrar and NIS saga. I dont think the Registrar began the investigations because the public was complaining nor to protect the public. Since there was no one who was schemed by Net Income Solutions, I dont see why individuals will lodge complaints with the Registrar. The real complainant is the banks here, the major four and microlenders. Mr. Walker was beating them on their game. What happened is that i have seem multitudes of people withdrawing their savings from the banks and plunge them into NIS to receive better earnings that the peanuts they will get from the banks. People also went to microlenders like African Banks, Capitec, etc and lend money and pay it back in less than three months, so these microlenders dont make much profit under those circumstances. So these banks got together and file a complain with the Registrar since the Registrar is there to protect and advance their interest.

Nevertheless, NIS is not legal either according to Bank Act, that regulates banks activities. He should have been registered with various institutions withins the SA financial industry to operate legitimately. But i do think Mr Walker is generating income legitimately by engaging in Forex Trading, the exercise that is practiced by our major banks to make more money out of our deposits and they give us peanuts after so many days, they even demand that we serve a notice to get our money. Mr. Walker saw this opportunity and expand on it and this become a threat the balance sheet of the major four. With the banks you will never get R2 for your R100 daily, NEVER!. A bank can earn 100 pounds on Forex market via your R100 and give you 50 cents a month. But still, Mr. Walker should have chosen to go legal. I dont even think that even if he tries to get registred  he will overcome the barriers. He does have a bad history on issues of controversy. 

In my conclusion, all i want to see after the representation by Mr. Walker on the 26th March 2013, is how the Registrar is going to deal with our money. Because Mr. Walker did not fly with our money, is still there frozen into Standard Bank account. Are they gonna pay us back our money (capitals) or it will also include earnings? Or the Registrar is just gonna seize and give it to the State? That is something that will tell me whether the Registrar is protecting us or the major four. But i am diametrically opposed to the views that is a Pyramid Scheme, any emphasis on a pyramid scheme will only demonstrate the lack of understanding thereof of what a pyramid is. But analysing its operations, it has no traits for a pyramid.

----------


## Blurock

It is sad that so many uneducated and uninformed people get conned by confidence tricksters running pyramid schemes and other dubious means to make money. Maybe you have missed the posts on how to identify a pyramid scheme, maybe you are in denial and just do not want to believe that you have lost everything.

If you have missed earlier posts or still do not know what a pyramid scheme is, read this; www.investopedia.com/articles/04/042104.asp

Or if you still do not understand, read this;




> Earth to the Defencex trolls: Your money is GONE, and you are now experiencing what is known as denial. But if you insist on being retarded, I know a Nigerian who has a miracle fluid that can turn ordinary paper into R200 notes, please send the R10000 cash in return for 5ml of his miracle fluid, which is still a far better "investment" than this scam.


  :Frown:

----------


## Citizen X

> Morning Guys!
> 
> I just want to express my view on this Registrar and NIS saga. I dont think the Registrar began the investigations because the public was complaining nor to protect the public. Since there was no one who was schemed by Net Income Solutions, I dont see why individuals will lodge complaints with the Registrar. The real complainant is the banks here, the major four and microlenders. Mr. Walker was beating them on their game. What happened is that i have seem multitudes of people withdrawing their savings from the banks and plunge them into NIS to receive better earnings that the peanuts they will get from the banks. People also went to microlenders like African Banks, Capitec, etc and lend money and pay it back in less than three months, so these microlenders dont make much profit under those circumstances. So these banks got together and file a complain with the Registrar since the Registrar is there to protect and advance their interest.
> 
> Nevertheless, NIS is not legal either according to Bank Act, that regulates banks activities. He should have been registered with various institutions withins the SA financial industry to operate legitimately. But i do think Mr Walker is generating income legitimately by engaging in Forex Trading, the exercise that is practiced by our major banks to make more money out of our deposits and they give us peanuts after so many days, they even demand that we serve a notice to get our money. Mr. Walker saw this opportunity and expand on it and this become a threat the balance sheet of the major four. With the banks you will never get R2 for your R100 daily, NEVER!. A bank can earn 100 pounds on Forex market via your R100 and give you 50 cents a month. But still, Mr. Walker should have chosen to go legal. I dont even think that even if he tries to get registred he will overcome the barriers. He does have a bad history on issues of controversy. 
> 
> In my conclusion, all i want to see after the representation by Mr. Walker on the 26th March 2013, is how the Registrar is going to deal with our money. Because Mr. Walker did not fly with our money, is still there frozen into Standard Bank account. Are they gonna pay us back our money (capitals) or it will also include earnings? Or the Registrar is just gonna seize and give it to the State? That is something that will tell me whether the Registrar is protecting us or the major four. But i am diametrically opposed to the views that is a Pyramid Scheme, any emphasis on a pyramid scheme will only demonstrate the lack of understanding thereof of what a pyramid is. But analysing its operations, it has no traits for a pyramid.


This sounds like a very good statement that may actually assist the Registrar of banks and PWC! Might I suggest that you confirm it to affidavit and take it to PWC soonest. A very good statement indeed! Will definately assist the investigations!!!!

----------


## Darkangelyaya

> But i do think Mr Walker is generating income legitimately by engaging in Forex Trading, the exercise that is practiced by our major banks to make more money out of our deposits and they give us peanuts after so many days, they even demand that we serve a notice to get our money. Mr. Walker saw this opportunity and expand on it and this become a threat the balance sheet of the major four.


If that was true, that he was trading in Forex, it might make a good argument. However, this is not stated anywhere on the available documentation, so it might not be true. Even if it is true, trading Forex does not even give you those returns; and it is a very high risk investment, which would definitely not make consistent profits as high as two % per day. (It would actually need to be more, since he would need to make a profit too).

That being said, I commend you for taking a more level-headed approach in this, which is more than can be said for most of the investors.

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## Blurock

Forex trading is very high risk. You have obviously not taken note of high profile scandals in recent years where traders have burnt their fingers and are now either sitting in jail or have been fired. An illegal business is not sustainable. That is why the Regulator has stepped in.

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## Citizen X

> OMG, this is terrible!
> They reckon 178 000 people 'invested'.
> 
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...larmed-at-cour


*'2% a day' Defencex investors furious, alarmed at court order’*

“JOHANNESBURG – An astonishing number of people believe there is nothing wrong with Defencex, a scheme that pays members 2% a day. Since I reported on Defencex last week Thursday, my inbox has been flooded by worried and angry members. They are furious that the Western Cape High Court has frozen their scheme. Defencex was working, and gave hope to the poor, they say. So why stop it?
One member describes how Defencex helped him escape poverty: “Defencex helped me. I’m unemployed. I started depositing only R500 a month. I managed to buy enough points where I ended up earning R210 a day. Defencex really helped me. I never slept with an empty stomach since I knew this scheme.”
Another member wrote: “My name is Vusi Zwane and I'm a member of Defencex. Defencex is not a pyramid scheme. Since I joined them, I never experienced any problems and they have been loyal in keeping their promises. Not at once did they default and not pay my R2 a day.”
Meshack De Ivory says: “People are happy about Defencex so please let them benefit as they do now. What you guys are doing is very, very wrong. I think you should ask people how they feel about Defencex before you stop it. I myself have managed to do lot of things with the money. We are begging you guys in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to leave Defencex alone.”
Members have rallied in support of Defencex founder Chris Walker, who they see as some kind of champion of the poor. One wrote: “Chris is a blessing in South Africa. He’s taking care of the poor, without discriminating against anybody, unlike people in high positions who are corrupt, abusing government funds and promoting nepotism.”
These are just samples of many similar e-mails. *The response to Thursday’s article indicates Defencex is a truly massive scheme with thousands of members. Defencex is a trading name for close corporation Net Income Solutions.*
Some have borrowed money to invest in the scheme. Muronga Thiathu wrote: “Remember that people have joined the scheme using funds that they have loaned from banks and even mashonisa [loan sharks]. There are also some people like me who have taken almost R350 000 from the bank. How will I be able to pay it back?”
*It is important to note that Defencex website does not explain how it generates such good returns.* There is also big emphasis on recruiting new members. These are two telltale signs of a pyramid scheme. What’s more, Chris Walker has a previous involvement with an alleged pyramid scheme dating back to 2002.
*A pyramid scheme uses money from new investors to pay returns to people who are already invested. Pyramid schemes are appealing because they do actually make some participants rich. People see the success that the scheme brings to others and want a piece for themselves. It is very tempting to take part when you can see the new car your neighbor just bought with his pyramid scheme earnings.*
Pyramid schemes work well until they run out of new investors. Then they collapse, leaving most investors with nothing. Some schemes can grow for years before they collapse. But the bigger they grow, and more successful they become, the more money people will lose in the end.
That is why pyramid schemes are illegal; they are not real businesses, and they cause even greater distress for people hoping for a solution to financial problems.
Many Defencex investors have asked whether they will get their money back. If the fears of a pyramid scheme are true – and there is little reason to believe they are not – then the chances are close to zero.
The South African Reserve Bank recently asked auditors PWC to investigate Defencex. The final PWC report should give an indication of what Chris Walker was doing with investors’ money and how much of it is left.
If Defencex is shut down, there are more schemes to take its place. One member, Ntokozo Shange, wrote on Defencex’s Facebook page: “Well people we are all hoping for the best outcome. But if we do not have any positive news I’ll share a company just like Defencex that I’ve been with for seven months now. R2.30 for 60 days.” Gugu Madlala replied: “Please share. I don’t want to put my eggs in one bucket. I also have some that are very good too.””[1]

*[1]Vide:'2% a day' Defencex investors furious, alarmed at court order.’ Cobbett J.http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...larmed-at-cour. Accessed 4 March 2013*

----------


## Dave A

> But i do think Mr Walker is generating income legitimately by engaging in Forex Trading


Out of idle interest, what do you base that thought on?

----------


## vieome

> One member describes how Defencex helped him escape poverty: Defencex helped me. Im unemployed. I started depositing only R500 a month. I managed to buy enough points where I ended up earning R210 a day. Defencex really helped me. I never slept with an empty stomach since I knew this scheme.


  Very interesting find Vanash. 

I imagine if it does turn out to be a pyramid scheme, there will be strikes for Chris's freedom. Madolf must be kicking himself for running his scheme in America, a pyramid scheme in Africa and you become a saviour. I am guessing there is going to be a huge amount of these schemes heading to Africa now.

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## Citizen X

> Very interesting find Vanash. 
> 
> I imagine if it does turn out to be a pyramid scheme, there will be strikes for Chris's freedom. Madolf must be kicking himself for running his scheme in America, a pyramid scheme in Africa and you become a saviour. I am guessing there is going to be a huge amount of these schemes heading to Africa now.


A very good afternoon to you Vieome :Wink: ,

Actually this find is by our very own Darkangelyaya! Yes, it's ironic how Walker actually has a fan base! There are however  just people who end up losing their money. I'm very keen to see how this one unravels!

V

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## Darkangelyaya

And this is where it all started.
When you've got a head for business....
http://eftacademysa.co.za/index.php/...-for-50-people
Seems like 6 months is max for these schemes - check out the date.

I also read an interesting comment, something along the following lines:
Why is Mr. Walker keeping quiet? Why are there suddenly all these horrid spelling mistakes on Defencex's website news feed? What if Mr. Walker orchestrated the freeze, and has already disappeared with millions?

Guess we'll know on Saturday... They have an EFT event at WITS.

----------


## Darkangelyaya

So I was thinking...
I have this energy treatment device which heals remotely, called a Quantec.
Anybody want to buy points at R100 each to swop for treatments?
 :Wink:

----------

Citizen X (04-Mar-13)

----------


## Blurock

> So I was thinking...
> I have this energy treatment device which heals remotely, called a Quantec.
> Anybody want to buy points at R100 each to swop for treatments?


I'd prefer the soft touch of healing hands... :Wink:

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Darkangelyaya (05-Mar-13)

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## Citizen X

> _Stanley: So our 10 dollars is frozen?_







> _Ollie:_ Well here's another nice mess you've gotten me into


 






> *Stanley: Here's another nice mess I got you into*




Photos sources:

http://nr1a.com/laurel-hardy-1.htm
http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lettersfromstan.com/images/harmon-cartoon.jpg&imgrefurl=http
 






 

sss

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## Blurock

Warren Buffet has to be the most successful investor ever.  You will never see Warren Buffet invest in "schemes" such as Defencex, MLM and other hairy fairy smoke and mirror cons. That is why he is the world's richest man.




> Don't be fooled by that Cinderella feeling you get from great returns


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/warre...#ixzz2MeJ0St00

Choose your role models well. Don't follow fools - they will make a fool of you too.  :Stupid:

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## sma

Hello everyone

This was a real eye opener I must say!!!!!!!!!!

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Darkangelyaya (05-Mar-13)

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## sma

I wish i had known these Emotional Freedom Techniques already I probably would be using them by now! :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Chrisjan B

Just enjoy a few glasses of wine and see how your emotions is being freed! 

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk 2

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Darkangelyaya (05-Mar-13)

----------


## Aud's

Any latest on defencex?

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## Citizen X

> Any latest on defencex?


We wait with bated breathe!

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## Aud's

Im foreseeing black Easter...

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## Darkangelyaya

> Hello everyone
> 
> This was a real eye opener I must say!!!!!!!!!!


Sad but true.

I follow the news on this with a fair amount of interest, and I must say my heart breaks every time I read the comments on the news articles / facebook pages. 

It's fine to point out to the pitfalls of a scheme like this to people who earn 'comfortably', and even maybe judge them a little for joining; but the problem arises when there is no food on your table, and no money to pay your child's school fees. Common sense flies out of the window, and survival becomes the only issue. Once that has been mastered (after a few weeks on the scheme) the next phase would be getting used to the regular cash, and then wanting more money, taking bigger risks. 

It is quite obvious from the comments on the articles that people are highly emotional about this issue. The reason for that is in most cases, that without this income stream, they are desperately poor.

Yet somehow, Chris Walker has managed to become a saint and savior in these people's eyes. I feel sick to my stomach if I think of the (quite likely) possibility that he orchestrated everything (even the freezing of the account). I will have to wait and see, but if this is true (and some are saying R200 million is missing from the account), then Mr. Walker has pulled one of the most ingenious stunts ever.

1. He 'sold' a 'product' that is not quantifiable, not provable in a clinical sense. (EFT/Tapping)
2. If the 'product' failed, then no-one had any recourse because how could you prove it did/did not work?
3. Because he needed a 'product' in order for this scheme to not be classified as a pyramid scheme, he searched far and wide for the 'perfect fit'. (See the EFT Foundation article in my earlier posts - this is where it began, and he admits having looked everywhere for the right product)
4. He made joining the scheme irresistable at the ROI of 2% per day;
5. He made it accessible to everyone at R 100 per point;
6. He covered his backside by stating that members may not promote this as an 'investment scheme' unless they want to forfeit all their benefits, which means that, even if he wins this case, he has the full right not to pay out any dividends. (Especially to those 99% of members so very vocal about this 'investment' in the press.
7. He has made the very clever move of donating to a Soweto-based charity;
8. He has not, as far as I know, made any statement to the press, on a FB page, or to members in general - has he even been seen since the 28th?
9. He has appealed to and touched people's emotions, and that is why they will march, slander and toyi-toyi for him;

What are the chances that he's stashed that missing R200 mill somewhere? Obviously he was well aware that the scheme had a limited lifespan. (I would've been in Cuba if I was him).

He has done irreparable harm to an alternative healing modality (EFT) that has proved to be of immense value in my life, and in the lives of a lot of my nutty alternative hippie friends.

In my world, people who harm the innocents, be it animals, plants, or people for their own gain, have no excuse.

I hope that I am proven wrong in this instance - so many people are suicidal about this.

----------

Blurock (05-Mar-13), Chrisjan B (05-Mar-13), Dave A (06-Mar-13), Newretailer (06-Mar-13)

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## Dave A

> 1. He 'sold' a 'product' that is not quantifiable, not provable in a clinical sense. (EFT/Tapping)


I think that's going to be disputed (that he was selling EFT) - the connection between the scheme and "selling EFT" is extremely tenuous. Given the way the connection was presented on the website, my view was that at best it was a "perk" - and at worst a very shallow attempt at legitimising the true purpose of the site.

----------


## Newretailer

Oh lordy. Thank you DarkAngel. My first reaction is "how can anyone be that stupid?", but as you point out one does not know until you walk in their shoes. I often think I am far too cynical, but when I read about these types of schemes I am thankful for that.

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Darkangelyaya (06-Mar-13)

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## Pfuma

I have read on the DefenceX website, i saw a notice posted on the 4th of March 2013 confirming that the skeduled EFT session is still taking place at Wits this coming saturday. Those who bought points for the event, please go there and ask few questions for us who cant attend because id fully booked.

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## Darkangelyaya

> I have read on the DefenceX website, i saw a notice posted on the 4th of March 2013 confirming that the skeduled EFT session is still taking place at Wits this coming saturday. Those who bought points for the event, please go there and ask few questions for us who cant attend because id fully booked.



I hope you will find some answers there, but as far as I know it will be hosted by the EFT Foundation. I'm willing to eat any shoe in my cupboard if Chris shows up there.  :Frown:

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## Darkangelyaya

> Oh lordy. Thank you DarkAngel. My first reaction is "how can anyone be that stupid?", but as you point out one does not know until you walk in their shoes. I often think I am far too cynical, but when I read about these types of schemes I am thankful for that.


Interesting comment, especially when read in conjunction with your tagline.. :Cool:

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## andrecv

Hi mate ! if you made a profit did you withdraw it from the investment ? i also tried my luck with HYIP's and fortunately made reasonable profits BUT could not withdraw because of it being a international paying site (scam)....PerfectMoney, Libertyreserve,etc...lost R3600 and very glad i got out....
At the end i would suggest get your profits back (in your pocket) asap...thereafter play with there money....good luck.

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## Darkangelyaya

Geeeezzzz... 43 000+ views of this thread!
I kinda suspect the proverbial pawpaw is straight on its way to the mother of all fans.
(And I kind of think that LOADS of more people are affected, but that they are too afraid/ashamed/aware to comment and thereby admit to being part of this.)
Suddenly I remembered why mainstream media isn't really my thing.
I need to find a hobby, I really do.

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## Newretailer

> Interesting comment, especially when read in conjunction with your tagline..


There is a difference between taking a leap of faith where you understand the risks, but you hope through hard work and perserverance you can succeed and believing ANYONE who says: give me your money and without you having to do a damn thing, it is going to grow and you will get rich. And I do this because I really care about all you faceless people out there. Only one involves cynicism. 

My mother got involved with the kubus scheme (was that the scheme where you grew a culture?) when I was at an impressionable young age.

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## Darkangelyaya

Just a quick question:

Why has Chris Walker not contacted the Defencex Members with a non-committal, but reassuring statement such as:

'Dear Members, you are no doubt aware of the legal actions commencing at this time - Please be assured that my thoughts are with you. As per the legal advice from my attorneys, I am advised not to make any further statements.'

(And he might have added something like 'Happy Tapping' or 'I do NOT, actually, walk on water yet.', or 'Bon Voyage')

*Since members registered using their cellphone numbers, how difficult would it be for a scheme of this magnitude to update their loyal followers via bulk sms's?*

Example:
1. Dear Defencex member, we are experiencing technical problems with our bank accounts. Please be patient! (28/2)
2. Dear Defencex member, due to a SARB investigation, our bank accounts will not be able to handle deposits or withdrawals for now. We will keep you informed (1/3)
3. Dear Defencex member, we are seeking legal advice with regards to the High Court Interim Order. (3/3)
4. Dear Defencex member, we apologize for the unforseen interuptions in service - we will be back online ASAP (5/3)
5. Dear Defencex member, we will miss your deposits (7/3)

There are all kinds of serious allegations flying around (on facebook of course - where everything is true!) at the moment, such as that the stepping down of a certain CEO is mentioned as being a result of this specific account; that there is an alternative scheme already in place to fill this gap; that the owners of the new scheme orchestrated this downfall...

I will not be surprised if there is a mass action at WITS tomorrow. Be safe, people... don't let violence and anger take over.

Interesting, heartbreaking times.

Just saying.

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Dave A (09-Mar-13)

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## Darkangelyaya

I reckon Chris followed my advice... He showed up at Wits and did his non-commital speech, did not discuss the case, did not take any questions.
Well played!
(I have to look for the most palatable shoe I own now. Think it will go down easier with butter?)

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## Darkangelyaya

> I hope you will find some answers there, but as far as I know it will be hosted by the EFT Foundation. I'm willing to eat any shoe in my cupboard if Chris shows up there.


Damn. Choose a light summer sandal please?

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## Dave A

I don't recall anyone taking you up on your challenge. Not even Chris himself!
(I really do suspect the one profile in this thread as his)

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Darkangelyaya (09-Mar-13)

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## Citizen X

> I don't recall anyone taking you up on your challenge. Not even Chris himself!
> (I really do suspect the one profile in this thread as his)


(the master mind one :Stick Out Tongue: )

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Darkangelyaya (09-Mar-13)

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## Darkangelyaya

http://m.facebook.com/story.php?stor...56784&refid=17

The official media version.

He may just have voted himself into presidency, after all, he can afford to do the Nkandla upkeep.. *Tsk* Sies *

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## Darkangelyaya

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ment-824808473

I really like Ping's comment.

Ping2 • 4 hours ago
I have been waiting to hear from Walker to shed some light on this matter. He is the only one who knows all the details, and we should therefore listen carefully to what he says.
I was not there, but the report, which has not been disputed, says that he told the gathering that the money had been frozen, until an investigation is complete. He explained that DefenceX was a legal matter now, and that top lawyers have been appointed.
He gave no further explanation, and took no questions from the audience (investors).
That is a VERY BAD sign. I think that everyone there must have at least one question to ask about the scheme, the safety of their money, and many other matters.
If the Chairman of a Public Company on the Stock Exchange refused to answer shareholder (investor) questions, a) He would be fired, and b) the shares would drop in value like a stone in water, (all the way to the bottom).
The fact that prayer, music, dancing, visualizations, and words of love were offered, instead of solid answers to important questions, seems to me to indicate that smoke and mirrors are being used here to distract the investors from the hard questions.

Like "Can I get my money back?" "Is my money safe." "Is this a ponzi scheme?"
It just gets curiouser and curiouser. To quote a famous spokesperson on matters factual.
But keep those positive thoughts going strong, you will need them.

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## Citizen X

> And how are all the investors doing today? “ Don’t worry be happy!”








> My money is still there, I just feel lonesome without it!“Are you lonesome tonight, Do you miss me tonight?”







> The best things in life are free
> But you can keep them for the birds and bees
> Now give me money
> That's what I want
> That's what I want, yeah
> That's what I want
> 
> You're lovin' gives me a thrill
> But you're lovin' don't pay my bills
> ...







> This is not a serious matter, the money is only frozen until the 26 March 2013, you’ll get your money on 27 March 2013



Photo sources:http://www.google.co.za/imgres?imgurl

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## Chrisjan B

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ke-an-egyptian

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Citizen X (18-Mar-13)

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## Citizen X

> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ke-an-egyptian


*“Defencex's Chris walks like an Egyptian”**'2% a day' mastermind has a history in the pyramid business.* “JOHANNESBURG – How much do members of Defencex know about their financial saviour Chris Walker? Defencex has gained a huge following in a relatively short space of time with its promised returns of 2% a day. As amazing as these returns are, surprisingly little is known about how they are generated, or about Walker himself.Is Walker a currency-trading guru?  A gifted businessman? Or is he just running a classic Ponzi scheme? The Ponzi scheme theory is supported by the fact that Walker has had a prior run-in with authorities over an alleged pyramid scheme.Walker has done little to shed light on the matter. He has acknowledged but declined _Moneyweb’s_ requests for an interview. A five-minute address to Defencex members at the Linder Auditorium last week was similarly lacking in detail.Let’s look at what we do know. A CIPC search for Christopher Mark Walker reveals two directorships. He is the sole member of Net Income Solutions, a close corporation registered in 2007. This is the entity that conducts 'Defencex' business. Walker is also a former director of public company Gold Charity Fund Investments (GCFI), registered in 2001. GCFI has since been deregistered.It was as a director of GCFI that Walker had his run-in with the Department of Trade and Industry (dti). On September 17 2001, Sapa reported that GCFI had failed in a court bid to prohibit the dti’s consumer affairs division from investigating its activities. GCFI was also reportedly being sued by its landlord for its alleged failure to pay rent for its premises in Quarry Lake, East London.Sapa reported that former President Nelson Mandela had submitted an affidavit to the court, which denied that he gave GCFI permission to use his picture on gold coins that were to be sold as part of an alleged pyramid scheme. This was in response to an affidavit handed in by GCFI employee Thembi Malasela who claimed she had received permission to use Mandela’s likeness from one of his grandchildren.The dti investigation went ahead and on November 8 2002 its Consumer Affairs Committee published a report into GCFI’s activities. _Moneyweb_ has not been able to get a copy of this report. However, the findings are summarised in a Sapa article and also in Government Gazette No. 24822.The GCFI scheme was based on gold coins. Participants were required to buy a coin package, and then sell two coins to two other participants, who in turn would sell to two further participants, and so on.The committee found that at least 87.5% of the participants would receive no compensation. Instead they would contribute towards money made by the remaining 12.5%.“This is clearly not in the public interest,” noted the report. “The Peters in the scheme are robbed to pay the participating Pauls. If the Peters were aware of this, they would probably not buy the package.”The report said that participants were grossly misled by being made to believe that Mandela was in some way involved in the scheme. “To use the name of an icon such as Mr Mandela to mislead consumers is not only an unfair business practice, which is certainly not in the public interest, but also borders on criminality.”Sapa reported that Gold Charity Fund’s name misled consumers into believing their participation would greatly assist charity organisations. In fact the report found that only 6% of GCFI’s turnover was destined for charity.Alec Erwin, then Trade and Industry Minister, adhered to a recommendation by the committee that the scheme be declared an unfair business practice.Walker and his associates Nico Lotterie and T Mahlasela were directed not to have any interest in, or to derive income from, any business that applied the unfair practice.The dti also took action against a scheme called Coinbusiness.net, which surfaced in the Commonwealth of Dominica. The Coinbusiness scheme appeared to be an offshoot of GCFI. Its website offered shares to Gold Charity Fund members according to the number they already had in GCFI.A further report was published on May 9, 2003 in Government Gazette number 24822. A copy can be downloaded here.Consumer committee vice-chairperson Tanya Woker would later write that GCFI’s business plan “was identical” to that used by Skybiz, an international pyramid scheme. The only difference was that with Skybiz the product was a website whereas with GCFI it was a coin.“One of the promoters admitted that he was a Skybiz associate,” wrote Woker.It is unclear when Walker got the idea for his current 2%-a-day scheme, which, incidentally, appears to be a carbon copy of hundreds of other so-called HYIP Ponzi schemes found all over the world. However, in July last year he approached Liesel Teversham of the EFT academy of Southern Africa. EFT stands for Emotional Freedom Techniques.Says Teversham: “Chris had a network marketing scheme. He needed a product to exchange for points.”According to Teversham, Walker had previously tried “digital products” and self-defence classes, which is where the name Defencex comes from.Teversham says she ran three workshops, paid for by Walker’s business. The last was on November 16 last year. Teversham terminated the agreement when she discovered that attendees seemed to be more interested in Walker’s money-making scheme than emotional freedom techniques.Teversham says she and her business partner never met Walker in person; communication was limited to telephone and e-mail. “He was always friendly and courteous,” says Teversham. “It struck me that he really wanted to make a difference.”According to Teversham, Walker told her that he had 100 000 members.”[1] 
[1] Vide: Cobbett J: *Defencex's Chris walks like an Egyptian. http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-special-investigations/defencexs-chris-walks-like-an-egyptian. Accessed 18 March 2013*

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## Darkangelyaya

I am SO happy they cleared up the link with EFT academy!  :Big Grin:

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## Darkangelyaya

Oh Dear!
http://t.co/yJVxwJKnHy
I may have read it wrong, but I thought Walker was supposed to prove legitimacy BEFORE the 26th?!

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## Rvanniek

Chris Walker has broken his silence and denies that DefenceX has contravened the banking act, and that it is a ponzi scheme. 
Read Moneyweb's report here: 
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...nks-act-breach

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## Darkangelyaya

> Chris Walker has broken his silence and denies that DefenceX has contravened the banking act, and that it is a ponzi scheme. 
> Read Moneyweb's report here: 
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...nks-act-breach


Two things: 
1. Walker could've responded the way he did today a few days after the accounts were frozen. Then at least there would've been some sort of closure for all the innocents who thought that they would be able to eat some time soon. The affidavit was not exactly rocket science, or even any more than just basic legal gargling. (God help us all if he used Defencex money for a bunch of idiotic lawyers).
2. He failed to mention how he generates the 2% - AND THIS IS BECAUSE HE WOULD INCRIMINATE HIMSELF IF HE WAS HONEST.

Now it was said for the first time that his personal acccounts were also frozen. If this is the case, then in my opinion this is the real reason why he hasn't left the country. (Yet)

I hear Cuba is nice.

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## Citizen X

> And, how's the investment business going

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## Chrisjan B

Mr Walker at it again:
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ymaking-scheme

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## Citizen X

> Mr Walker at it again:
> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...ymaking-scheme

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## Pfuma

Afternoon all,

it has been a while. i have been browsing defencex website and i saw a post by Mr Walker sayign the judge has reserved judgement on the 5th of June 2013. what does that mean? 

regards,
Pfuma

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## Chrisjan B

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...s-court-battle

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Dave A (26-Jun-13)

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## Dave A

So that would seem to be the end of the Defencex venture. I wonder how long before the brakes are applied to the add-ventures of Mr. Chris Walker himself.

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Chrisjan B (25-Jun-13)

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## Citizen X

> Afternoon all,
> 
> it has been a while. i have been browsing defencex website and i saw a post by Mr Walker sayign the judge has reserved judgement on the 5th of June 2013. what does that mean? 
> 
> regards,
> Pfuma


I think you mean 25 June 2013! The last time the case was heard i.e. before 25 June 2013, it would have been standard practice for the judge to state that he/she reserves judgement for a certain date. This simply means that he will take a certain period of time to consider the case and then give final judgement , in this case it was 25 June 2013(Today)
The latin maxim is _cur.adv.vult_

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## Citizen X

> http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...s-court-battle


*Sasha Planting and Julius Cobbett*
*“Defencex loses court battle”**“2%-a-day scheme ordered to pay legal costs, prohibited from accepting deposits.”* “CAPE TOWN and JOHANNESBURG – Net Income Solutions, better known as Defencex, has lost a court battle with the Registrar of Banks. Net Income Solutions was found by Judge James Yekiso to be accepting deposits in contravention of the Banks Act.
Defencex lured more than 200 000 members with its promised returns of 2% a day. There is strong evidence to suggest the scheme was little more than a Ponzi, with new members’ ‘investments’ used to pay the returns of existing members.
On Tuesday June 25, 2013, Judge Le Grange handed down judgment on behalf of Judge Yekiso. The verdict took less than two minutes to announce. The courtroom was filled to capacity, with more than 40 cases on the roll.
Judge Yekiso ruled in favour of the Registrar of Banks, which accused Net Income Solutions of contravening the Banks Act. Net Income Solutions was also ordered to pay the Registrar’s legal costs.
Yekiso prohibited Net Income Solutions from either soliciting or accepting further deposits.
At the time of writing, Reserve Bank head: strategy and communications department Hlengani Mathebula had not responded to a request for comment.
Many Defencex members have asked what would happen if Net Income Solutions lost its case. With other investment schemes (Money Skills is a good example), the usual outcome is liquidation. This means that liquidators are appointed to repay ‘investors’ in a manner that is orderly and fair. If the Reserve Bank applies for liquidation, it has the power to nominate liquidators.”[1]

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-special-investigations/defencex-loses-court-battle

[1]*Sasha Planting and Julius Cobbett. Defense X loses Court Battle.* http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-special-investigations/defencex-loses-court-battle. Accessed 25 June 2013

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## Blurock

To all investors out there; if it is too good to be true, it is  too good to be true! :Hmmm:

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Citizen X (26-Jun-13)

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## Chrisjan B

http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...20m-to-himself

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## Dave A

You didn't think he was really doing it just for charity, did you?

I'm surprised he only scooped R20 million for himself. That's a mere 2.5% of receipts. Pension fund managers don't blush at tapping double that rate and more  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Chrisjan B

Meself was never under such an illusion!
He's such a nice guy then!

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## Chrisjan B

Very nice indeed!
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-s...eps-on-walking

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