# Archive > Open content archive > MLM Industry Forum >  New to Multi-Level-Marketing

## adixion

Hi All

I would like to start a thread to chat about MLM programs and how they can really generate a passive income for selected motivated people.

I have recently signed up with Lyoness. They are a 10 year old Loyalty Card Company based in Austria. They are in 43 countries world wide and have just recently launched in South Africa.

There are currently 3.5 Million Lyoness members world wide of which 28 000 are in South Africa. Every month, Lyoness SA grows by 2 500 people. Members are allowed to sign up new people and create very large shopping communities. Once you have created a shopping community, the original member and his team, earn attractive commissions.

What MLM program do you belong to?
Why do you do it? 
Is it working for you?

I look forward to the inputs of the forum

Andrew

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## Dave A

Hi Andrew,

First off, and for future reference - all MLM posts must go in the MLM section only please.

And then the contradiction that "proves" the rule...  :Stick Out Tongue: 

In our scam alert section, the question has been asked - is Lyoness a scam?
Personally I haven't taken a close look at the issue, but seeing as you seem to be in it, you might be well served to read it and perhaps comment yourself.

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## Vic Bonto

Hi Andrew,

Programs helps but successful people in MLM, develop skills necessary to become highly successful.
MLM is an emotional relationship business.

There are 3 types of people join Network Marketing
Poser - wishing for something to happen, think of 2-6 people.
Amateur - starting to develop skills needed.
Proffessionals - continue developing skills, helping people understand that MLM is a better way. They dont think about the money.

here is the video that explain these types of people

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## HR Solutions

........... Sigh .............. of boy .................. do these mlm guys still able to catch people out .... ?

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## Vic Bonto

I do understand, that is also my point of view before, catching people ;-)

We need to understand what is the value of MLM in peoples lives and also at economy.

Maybe right now we haven't see that we are now  living in a new economy, not a recession but a new economy.
It is sad that some company those fly by night, taking advantage of people, promising people, they use MLM which damage the name of MLM industry.

But MLM is one way for equality, fairness and helping people, encouraging everyone.
People still living in old economy which is go to school, look for a job and retire.
Actually that is already phasing out, now the scenario is like this
get a good grade, look for a good job, change your job every 3-4 years for political, economical or other various reason then retire.
Tell me if that is not right?
Later on people will get paid not anymore by the time but by the work done.

Like what I said on other post.
MLM, Network marketing makes opportunity equal to everyone.
In Network marketing, white, black, young, old, educated, uneducated, everyone have equal opportunity.
but outside it is not, if you are white, is the opportunity same as the black people? or the other way around?
if you are old let us say 50 years old, is the opportunity same as 25 years old or 30 years old?
if you graduated with metric is the opportunity same as those with doctorate degree or those unable to go to school?

in network marketing makes it equal, which I like most.

those who dont like equality, those people who want to build and accomplished the dreams of other people, MLM is not for them.

real MLM, we don't catch people, we help people those who only like.
In network marketing, we just need to understand, we have a better way ;-)

Have a wonderful day to all

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## adrianh

I bet you a banana that ain't going to sell anybody on MLM on this site. 




> those who dont like equality, those people who want to build and accomplished the dreams of other people, MLM is not for them.


Good one, I must admit that I am a capitalist and yes, I don't actually give a $h1t about how much money you make!

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## HR Solutions

> We need to understand what is the value of MLM in peoples lives and also at economy


Ja right ........... sorry boet ....... no value at all ......... but they must have caught you out hey .............  :Wink: 




> I bet you a banana that ain't going to sell anybody on MLM on this site.


Lets double that bet up Adrian ........ 2 BIG Banana's ..... ok ?

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## Leonp

i tried my hand at network marketing, and didnt make a cent. i then made a ton of money working hard at a steady job, and progressed to an sme owner and business manager.

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adrianh (28-Jul-14), HR Solutions (28-Jul-14)

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## Dave A

One thing that I agree with Vic about -



> MLM is an emotional relationship business.


Without doubt.

Kinda got my reservations on this one though -



> Proffessionals - continue developing skills, *helping people understand that MLM is a better way*.


I know I'm flying in the face of what the professionals are saying nowadays, but I reckon it would be more accurate to describe it as "a different way." The "better" bit can depend on what test you apply.




> ........... Sigh .............. of boy .................. do these mlm guys still able to catch people out .... ?


In this modern day of the internet, you'd think not, hey. But I've seen people pile into pyramid schemes knowing full well they're pyramid schemes, let alone get "suckered" into a genuine, perfectly sustainable multi-level marketing deal.

In this age of social media, it's hard to put out something that's actually not all it's cracked up to be without someone sharing their bad experience and putting it out there for all to see.

So what's your experience of MLM, HR?
I know you're anti - just wondering what experience that's based on in your case.
(And you're welcome to share too if you want, Adrian  :Wink:  )

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## Vic Bonto

The topic in this forum is about MLM, i think we need to discuss here about MLM, network marketing.

Yes, maybe you can share your network marketing experience, HR and Adrianh, what happen? tell us.

Many people are don't earn anything from MLM, same with other industry.
Almost 90% join in MLM waiting to be lucky, they never think or act to develop skills needed.
Traditional business, many are very successful like Adrian, as you mention as capitalist but there are also plenty people become bankrupt, right?
In any field, there are people become successful and there are who failed in that field.
But take a look what is common, those successful, they develop skills, they study, they read, they apply necessary skills in their field that's why they become successful.
How about those who did not become successful, they also have in common, they don't do, they don't develop skills needed, they are waiting to be lucky then at the end of the day, started to blame everyone, anything. 

In conclusion, can we conclude that something is a failure because many people failed? how about those become successful?

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## HR Solutions

> So what's your experience of MLM, HR?
>  I know you're anti - just wondering what experience that's based on in your case.
>  (And you're welcome to share too if you want, Adrian  )


Years ago there was a mlm "scam" called Uconomy ... or something like that ........... I was conned into buying it at around R2000 , then you had to resell it and you got all these discount vouchers etc etc etc.  Never sold one and never used one voucher either.

And the second is Amway.  I know they are apparently doing quite well, but the way people go about inviting you around for a "chat" etc - they never actually tell you WHY and WHAT they want to chat to you about and when you arrive it turns out to be Amway !  And sometimes they don't even tell you the products name before they want to talk crap in your ear.  I have been suckered twice - the second time I stopped the person and asked exactly What the products name was that he was selling, if it was MLM and once I got his sheepish answer I got up and walked out.  !!!

Another thing that really is quite irritating is when you meet a MLM person and they start talking to you either face to face or on a forum and they want to bring up MLM - the conversation normally starts with :  "I have this brand new product on the market - you have never seen it before, and it really is not a scam "

Really .... FFS !!

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Dave A (29-Jul-14)

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## Vic Bonto

> Years ago there was a mlm "scam" called Uconomy ... or something like that ........... I was conned into buying it at around R2000 , then you had to resell it and you got all these discount vouchers etc etc etc.  Never sold one and never used one voucher either.
> 
> And the second is Amway.  I know they are apparently doing quite well, but the way people go about inviting you around for a "chat" etc - they never actually tell you WHY and WHAT they want to chat to you about and when you arrive it turns out to be Amway !  And sometimes they don't even tell you the products name before they want to talk crap in your ear.  I have been suckered twice - the second time I stopped the person and asked exactly What the products name was that he was selling, if it was MLM and once I got his sheepish answer I got up and walked out.  !!!
> 
> Another thing that really is quite irritating is when you meet a MLM person and they start talking to you either face to face or on a forum and they want to bring up MLM - the conversation normally starts with :  "I have this brand new product on the market - you have never seen it before, and it really is not a scam "
> 
> Really .... FFS !!


Thank you very much HR Solutions for sharing to us your story. Do you think where is the problem, is it the *MLM* or *the people who are involved in MLM?*

There are really people doing that, i received invitation like that and I ignore them. They must a have a right training.

Very successful people in MLM, professionals, they don't do like that.
In my team, I always encourage everyone to be honest, and transparent, share all the information they know, use a tool like a website, video.
I always tell my team even myself, I share why I am doing the business, what are the opportunity all about.

My ultimate reason, why I am doing this is to have my own time and financially free not relying on anyone. 
Currently I am learning how to become professional in network marketing and started to share to the industry what is the right thing to do based on what I have learned so far.

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## Dave A

Just clicked the thanks button the other day because things have been hectic, but I also wish to say - thank you for sharing your experience, HR. I'm sure it is one that many can relate to. And I fully appreciate it's not easy to trust a dog that's bitten you once, let alone twice...

Pretty interesting thread actually. A quick comment on one post so far before I share my MLM stories (there are three of them... )




> i tried my hand at network marketing, and didnt make a cent. i then made a ton of money working hard at a steady job, and progressed to an sme owner and business manager.


I'm delighted it's all worked out for you, Leon. Unfortunately my traditional business story is a little different -

From 1985 I started slaving away at building a pretty successful traditional business. Then in 1997 I lost my business, all my investments, my (wife's dream) house, damn nearly my wife and family, plus ended up with a pile of debt to pay off as a bonus - due to a badly timed and poorly executed business expansion move. The biggest single factor that influenced my bounce-back from this crushing disaster was an MLM. But we'll get to that just now.

One of the things I learned in this (just one of many HUGE lessons) is that when things go wrong in a traditional business, for most people the stakes and financial consequences tend to be *much* higher than in most MLM's. It's also absolutely devastating on the psyche. 
Can anyone relate to that?

@ Vic - this being a "new to MLM" thread, why don't we just stick to MLM stories for now. The people around here are pretty good at figuring stuff out for themselves.
So what's your story?

OK. My first brush with MLM.

About 1988. 
Got invited to look at a business opportunity by a client.
Didn't even ask "what is it" or "tell me something about it." 
Seemed like a nice guy. I was making good money and was investing in stuff already anyway. Just went to the meeting.
Turned out it was Golden Products, pitched by a crowd called The Eagle Team.
Some guy drew circles on a whiteboard and spoke about suppressed dreams.
I got the principle.
I understood the numbers.
I really liked the numbers.
I was not thrilled about the product.
I was way less than impressed by the rah-rah stuff (as an analytical, my cynical side is pretty well developed and at that point in my life, rampant to the point of being totally unbalanced).
And I didn't give a second thought to suppressed dreams. I was young, successful and pretty confident I was well on my way to achieving my dreams already - so I didn't have any supressed dreams. (Besides which, as an analytical I viewed that stuff as psycho babble only good for mental weaklings anyway).

But the nice guy did all the right stuff, and I left the presentation with a tape, some reading material, and a booked follow up (at my home).

The nice guy turned up on time, with another guy.
The other guy was apparently doing very well in this business.
I hadn't listened to the tape.
I'd read the cover of the booklet.

My wife hadn't gone to the presentation, so the other guy drew the circles for her and spoke of suppressed dreams.
My wife didn't understand the circles and she was married to her dream.
She hated the nice guy and the other guy, and dragged me into the kitchen to make sure I knew it.
She also pointed out that we had Super 10 in the house and if she ever wanted more, she could just buy it from the old lady up the road.
The old lady up the road was very nice and my wife was not interested in ... (with the benefit of hindsight) her dream husband selling soap like the old lady up the road.

And she made it clear that if I started selling soap, she'd be sleeping on the couch for the foreseeable future.
(My wife is sneaky. She never sends me to the dog box when I do something wrong - *she* gets into the dog box. Waaay more effective - at least in my case).

So while my wife stayed in the kitchen, I handed the nice guy his tape and booklet, and politely saw the nice guy and the other guy off the premises.
Sorry guys, not for me, but I wish you the best of luck in your ventures.

Never saw or heard from either of them ever again.

End of my MLM story one. 
Story two is going to have to wait for tomorrow.

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Vic Bonto (04-Aug-14)

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## Vic Bonto

My story - 

First time I met MLM was 2002, just after I graduated high school.
It was really good when I attended the presentation but I failed to do it, I was focus on my study as a scholar.

When I was in my college, I joined different companies, I am wondering many people are earning a lot even some of them are not able to go to school. 
I want to be like them but I dont have the reason why I need to do that business, since everyone around me, even myself telling me I need to look for a good job since I am having a good grades.
I just lost my money in those MLM's  I get paid once or twice then no more.
After I graduated my college, I found a good job in telecom industry since I am a telecom engineer. I forget and leave MLM.

2008 I got married, she was having an allergy, everytime she eat food with seafoods, her body become swollen, she was not able to breath so we have no choice we always rush to the hospital for some medication. 
Then one day, my brother introduced this products to my wife, she started to use then until now we dont go anymore to hospital. She ask for my opinion then I found out it was an MLM, I know it was a good company. So I told her, yeah you can do that but for me, no, I'm busy with my work. I also use the products and it helps my health.
I leave that business opportunity to my wife. Then 2010, I lost my job, I started to attend business presentation for that, taking down notes.
I started to share to some people but I am still looking for a job, it was deeply engraved in my head to look for a job.
Later that year I found a another job, so I don't the business.
2012 I was assigned here in South Africa, i found out there big unemployment rate. I started again so share the business here in South africa but I'm not really that serious about it since I am having a good job.
Last year 2013 while here in South Africa I lost my job, so I do that business but still my mindset is look for a job. 
Just after 3 months I found a new job, now working at CellC as a subcon.
I want to be successful but I dont know why I am not doing it. I even join another MLM, related to saving fuel.
I used it but it doesnt work in my car so I leave it.
One day while browsing the internet, looking for some trainings about the business. Then I met my first mentor Eric Worre, discussing how to be professional in network marketing.
I bought the training from USA, then I learned a lot. His mentor was Jim Rohn, so I google Jim Rohn and also listen to him.
Now I learned, in order for us to be successful I need to develop skills, That is what now I'm doing.
When I started to apply those principles I learned, I was earning 2000 as part time, it goes to 5000, I was surprised! Now looking forward to be like those people who are very successful people in the industry enjoying time and financial freedom.
Now I also learned to write down my goals, before I dont have any.

Here are some of the principles I learned
Profits are better than wages.

We can have everything in life if we help enough people get what they want.

Working full time for my living
but working part time for my fortune (doing MLM)"


Now one of my mission is to bit by bit share my knowledge about network marketing to change the name or reputation of this industry thru education for free, I already started.
I had a presentation last Saturday in Joburg town, next will be in Lesotho.

That's my story.

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## HR Solutions

Vic what are you earning per month with MLM ?  Im wanting to know what you are earning, not what is "possible" ...... Im sure this is not personal because it is MLM and you guys are always saying what you could earn.

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## Vic Bonto

like I mention, only this year I decided to do the business because I was trap by  mindset to always rely on work, until now still working ;-)
last may I earned 3000+, June it goes up to 5000+, then this july production il be expecting 10,000+ rand as I do it part time.
the potential of the business is unlimited, there are already earning 6 to 7 figure a month, and now I decided to be with them, ask them what they do, how they get there. Now I'm on my way.

MLM business is not that easy, many people say it is very easy and most of the people join want to be a millionaire overnight, they have a very high expectation.
When they started to do the business, there are plenty of discouragement, they don't develop skills how to do invitation and presentation. they run out of prospect, then they quit. Then they tell everyone that MLM doesn't work ;-)

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## HR Solutions

So why don't you do it full time ?

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## Leonp

> like I mention, only this year I decided to do the business because I was trap by  mindset to always rely on work, until now still working ;-)
> last may I earned 3000+, June it goes up to 5000+, then this july production il be expecting 10,000+ rand as I do it part time.
> the potential of the business is unlimited, there are already earning 6 to 7 figure a month, and now I decided to be with them, ask them what they do, how they get there. Now I'm on my way.
> 
> MLM business is not that easy, many people say it is very easy and most of the people join want to be a millionaire overnight, they have a very high expectation.
> When they started to do the business, there are plenty of discouragement, they don't develop skills how to do invitation and presentation. they run out of prospect, then they quit. Then they tell everyone that MLM doesn't work ;-)


the key is "mlm business is not that easy" yet its sold as an easy business. In the end, it only works if you run it as a business, thus the easy part is gone and you end up with the guys looking for an easy business falling by the way side and the guys prepared to run a business as a business, making a success. its the easy lie that's the problem.

its like saying building checkers from scratch is easy.

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## Vic Bonto

> So why don't you do it full time ?


we have an agreement with my wife and I respect it, once my bonus is already more than my salary I'll do it full time ;-)
It is a personal and family matter.

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## Vic Bonto

> we have an agreement with my wife and I respect it, once my bonus is already more than my salary I'll do it full time ;-)
> It is a personal and family matter.


Aside from that, almost all my mentors who are very successful in the business, they started part time, like Jim Rohn, Eric Worre.
You can google them and watch some of their videos.

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## Dave A

> So why don't you do it full time ?


Because then it wouldn't be extra money.  :Devil2: 

Besides which the whole idea is to do well while using up only a few hours each day...

The main problem with going "full time" is people with too much spare time tend to wander into bad habits. (Got half way through a blog post on the topic last night. Should finish it this evening or this weekend).




> the key is "mlm business is not that easy" yet its sold as an easy business. In the end, it only works if you run it as a business, thus the easy part is gone and you end up with the guys looking for an easy business falling by the way side and the guys prepared to run a business as a business, making a success. its the easy lie that's the problem.


I think you'll find the pro's will say it is a *simple* business. And it is.

They'll also say it takes work, and it does.

But you know what - approach that work with the right attitude and it really is fun.

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Vic Bonto (08-Aug-14)

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## ryno.vermeulen

Hi Guys, this is an interesting read here. Here is my 2c....

It's so funny to me how people get burnt once and then bad mouth the whole industry. How many of you have had bad service at a fast food joint, but yet you still support the industry? 1st of all, MLM, is clearly not for everyone. Everyone needs to understand that! 
I'm part of an awesome system and I believe with every fiber in me that Network marketing is the way of the future. Donald Trump reckons that if he lost everything that he has today he would go out, find a network marketing company with a good product and get to work. 
Yes there has been scams and yes people have been caught out but that certainly doesn't mean the whole industry is bad. In fact it is creating the most most millionaires around the globe than any other industry out there. 
If it's not for you then so be it. If you happy to live that 40, 40, 40 lifestyle then carry on. (that's working for 40 hours a week, for 40 years of your life and then retiring on 40% of your earnings) basically selling your time for money. Things are changing rapidly and people need to learn to keep up. It's exciting as well guys. Over the last 3 months my life has changed drastically and all thanks to an awesome company with a great product and even better rewards system. Find a second income and get money to work for you instead of it being the other way around.

Cheers

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## HR Solutions

It's quite funny how people have to tell everyone how well they are doing ...... Because they need the buy in of more and more people ...... To me that is a recipe for disaster.  And before u attack me, because you are already on the defensive, we all have a right to our opinion !

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## ryno.vermeulen

I certainly am not on the defensive. Hence the reason for me joining this forum to read opinions. I don't need to prove anything, the facts speak for them selves. All we do is air our opinions right? 
MLM is not easy and depending on the compensation structure of the organisation can be very very rewarding.

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