# Regulatory Compliance Category > Labour Relations and Legislation Forum >  Firearm at work

## Christel

I would like to know if the labour law stipulates rules about having a firearm while at your normal place of work.  Do I need to tell my boss that I'm bringing my own personal firearm to work?  I did mention to her that once I have received my licence, I would like to have the pistol with me (for security basically as I live outside of PE and have to travel with my kids..).  I cannot leave it in the car, as I don't have a safe in my car.  I need to carry it with me. She said that she would need to get confirmation from all employees that this is ok with them... what the frikkadel?  I don't think involving everyone is a good idea/ nor neccessary?
 :Frown:

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## KimH

I stand to correction here but as far as I am aware there is nothing in the labour law that prohibits this, I would however recommend that you obtain your employers written permission to do so all the same. As for obtaining permission from the rest of the staff,  quite frankly as long as you won't be whipping your firearm out at every opportunity and scaring your colleagues I don't see how it is any business of theirs anyway -besides the last thing you need is to possibly have your firearm pinched when you go to the loo.  I certainly look forward to other forum members input on this one.

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tec0 (28-Aug-12)

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## Just Gone

I'm also not sure about the law, but really dont think you need any other "employees" permission to carry your firearm.  You have a licence for it which entitles you to carry it concealed.  I would tho advise that you tell your boss that you do carry it out of respect.  I would never brandish it around because the good old golden rule - if you draw your weapon, you use it - so no need to ever take it out unless you really need to and when you put it in a safe place at home or in a safe !

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## tec0

Actually it comes down to the rules and regulations set by the company you work at. If they dont have a policy or rule about fire-arms then all you need to do is to follow the fire arm laws and regulation.  

If your firearm is legal then you have the legal right to have it with you. Unless it is specified by the company/business that it is a no firearm zone.

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KimH (28-Aug-12)

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## Mike C

If they are not happy with it being on your person at work - could you not put it in the work safe when you arrive in the morning and remove it at the end of the day?  Don't know what the legal implications of that would be with respect to "entrusting" it to their care ...

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KimH (28-Aug-12)

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## ians

Some of the companies i work at, have a no firearm policy, i hand it it for safe keeping at security. If they are not happy with you carrying it on you while at work, which sometimes becomes a real pain in the butt, why not suggest to have a safe fitted, at work at your cost. 

So long as you dont carry on like Denny Crane form boston leagal and shoot people whenever you feel like it, i dont see why there would be a problem.

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## KimH

ha ha @ the Denny Crane reference, the episode where he blitzed the guys in the boardroom with his paint ball gun was my favourite!!

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## Christel

Thanks for all the feedback.  Firstly, we are an accounting firm in PE - we are only 14 staff members, all of which are females. I thought to bring it to work also as protection for us... so putting it in a safe at work, won't really be ideal for me.  We don't have a firearm policy.  I would definatley tell my boss, but I don't want her to involve the rest of the staff... my feeling would be the less people know about it, the better it would be.  The firearm law states that I can carry it in a backpack - so I was thinking of putting it in my laptop backpack in my cupboard, behind my desk in my office.  I'm sure this way it should be safe and should I need to go out, I'll have to take it with me / or alternatively then put it in a safe.

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## Just Gone

Just remember if the cupboard is broken into or not lockable you are the one responsible if it goes missing.  I really would recomend you putting in a safe at your cost ..... perhaps one with a 4 digit code that is easy to open if ever you need to get to it in an emergency.  The law will come down hard on you if the firearm ever goes missing.  And I tend to agree with the law - I am a firearm owner myself, but am strict about the gun - it is either with me at ALL times or locked in the safe for the other time.

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## adrianh

@Kevinb - Agreed

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## ians

> Thanks for all the feedback.  Firstly, we are an accounting firm in PE - we are only 14 staff members, all of which are females. I thought to bring it to work also as protection for us... so putting it in a safe at work, won't really be ideal for me.  We don't have a firearm policy.  I would definatley tell my boss, but I don't want her to involve the rest of the staff... my feeling would be the less people know about it, the better it would be.  The firearm law states that I can carry it in a backpack - so I was thinking of putting it in my laptop backpack in my cupboard, behind my desk in my office.  I'm sure this way it should be safe and should I need to go out, I'll have to take it with me / or alternatively then put it in a safe.


My advice would be, if you can't keep it on you at all times, lock it in a safe. If you get distracted, forget it, or someone else finds it, you will be charged with negligance and the firearm will be taken away form you. The gun is pretty useless to you if the office experiences an armed robbery, The best place at that stage would be a safe location which nobody knows about, keeping it in a laptop bags would be the worse possible place to keep it. Computers are such high risk items for theft.

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## IMHO

How I see it.

If you carry concealed, nobody, but nobody should know. Ever. If someone knows, you become a target. Especially if you are the only person packing. It is safer to have a few people carry concealed, so they can not be targeted/monitored at all times. That increase the danger to possible attackers, as they do not know what to expect and exactly who carries. It is therefore not a good idea to be the only one carrying a gun. Remember, criminals always prepare and find out everything about their target. Attacks is based on surprise and information, which they gather even through intimidation.

Carrying a gun at work is a pain in the butt. It is also likely that you are going to take it out (un-holster) in the toilet and forget it there. It happens, I promise you. Especially when you are preoccupied or upset, which happens regularly when at work, right? (Tip. If you have to un-holster in a toilet, always put it on the floor in front of you, or keep it in your lap. Never place it on the cistern behind you. You will not see it when you get up in a hurry and forget it there!)

As pointed out, putting it anywhere else than in a safe safe, is just looking for trouble. It is going to be thiefed...

If in a safe, you are the only person that can legally have access to the safe. Unless there is a security department, with legal permission, that signs it in and out all the time.

Being on the road unarmed is not wise. You will have to consider all elements and make a plan that suits you. Never ever leave a firearm in a vehicle.

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## AndyD

I don't allow my employees to carry firearms at work either in the office or in the company vehicles, it's part of their employment contract. They can bring one to work but then it stays in their car and they must ensure its security. Many of my customers have a no fire arms policy and I don't want them in the office and making provisions for them in company vehicles is a headache I don't need.

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## Christel

Thanks everyone... I think the safe option would then be the best.  Maybe even fit one in my vechile as well at a later stage.  It's no use having a firearm and you can't even have it with you when you need it.  But like you all say... we live in an evil world and most of the times good intentions turns against you in the end.  
Thanks again!

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## Nickolai Naydenov

If you want expert advice, post a question on www.gunsite.co.za it's a forum, there are many firearm dealers, firearm owners and even members who work for the firearm licensing department in Pretoria, they are always very helpful.

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Christel (30-Aug-12), KimH (30-Aug-12)

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## Jackster

You are licensed to carry this firearm, so you may take it with you to the office. Your manager does not need permission from other staff members for you to carry a firearm, but it is good to inform them. I personally would like to know which staff members are armed on my premises (although I have a strict firearm policy).

Please do not leave your firearm in the cupboard. If you do not have a safe at work in which to safely store it, carry the gun on you. If you leave it anywhere else than in a safe, you are inviting trouble. And if something happens, you will be found guilty as the firearm was not under your direct control.

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## Dave A

> I personally would like to know which staff members are armed on my premises


That was pretty much my thought too as this thread developed.

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## Just Gone

And myne .. as per my post

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## Dave A

Yes. Perhaps I should have said so then, but at the time I was curious what other responses might be.

Andy's post was also good food for thought when it comes to personnel going onto client sites.

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## ians

The less people know the better, thats my policy with my firearm, if you dont ask i dont tell. Not even my wife knows if or when i am carrying it.

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## AndyD

I guess it depends on the kind of work the employees are doing and where they're doing it....and maybe how much of a Rambo the employee is as well. 

My take on it is that I know the gun owner has the right to bear arms but if they're working in other peoples premises those people also have the right to keep their property fire-arm-free as well. Big companies aside, plenty of people, especially those with kids for example might not like the thought of firearms in their house. Many big companies have recently tightened up on their firearms policies after some recent newsworthy events. 
http://www.fin24.com/Companies/Inves...-Town-20120727

My guys are also installers so when they're working in ceilings and other tight spaces doing physical installation work, carrying a firearm on their person becomes a major pain in he ass and there's always the tendancy to take them out and leave them lying around or leave them in the vehicle which is an obvious security issue.

The reason I introduced a firearm policy was because of an incident that happened during a company Christmas braai a few years ago. I'm not going into great detail but a firearm was discharged several times. It was removed from the owner by force and the police were involved. It got very messy with multiple charges being laid and resulted in the employee being dismissed amongst other things. It was something I had no desre to be repeated and we included a clause in the employment contracts and posted a firearms policy in the staff room ever since.

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Dave A (31-Aug-12)

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## ians

Andy, was there alcohol involved?

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## AndyD

Yes there was. It was a lesson learned from my side, lets just say we no longer give staff the benifit of the doubt and assume they're capable of regulating their alcohol intake to a sensible amount.

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## Just Gone

> assume they're capable of regulating their alcohol intake to a sensible amount.


That is something that I would never assume ......

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## tec0

Just remember if someone order someone to disarm, regardless if it is at work, shop whatever that person that ordered the disarm can be hold accountable for the safety of the other person while they are at the premises in question. Also if they "the person ordering the disarm" force you to sign something "like a disarm policy or weapons free policy"  :Wink:

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## ians

Sometimes, it is better not to make an issue of something, unless it becomes an issue.

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## ians

> Yes there was. It was a lesson learned from my side, lets just say we no longer give staff the benifit of the doubt and assume they're capable of regulating their alcohol intake to a sensible amount.


Just imagine if we could ban alcohol, you wouldn't turn drivers in murderers, you wouldn't turn family men into family abusers and you wouldnt have to duck for cover when a sober sensible person turns stupid under the influence.

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## AndyD

> Just remember if someone order someone to disarm, regardless if it is at work, shop whatever that person that ordered the disarm can be hold accountable for the safety of the other person while they are at the premises in question.


I'm not sure this is true. I'd be interested if there's any legislation regarding this. At the end of the day the guy with the firearm has a choice, in the case of my employees if he doesn't want to disarm he can seek another line of work or an alternative place of employment that doesn't require this of him.

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## IMHO

Interesting indeed. Lets take the firearm out of the question and replace it with something like a veracity test. I have a problem with honesty and decide I want to do a veracity test. But you can not do it if the employee does not agree to do one. I can now make it a condition of employment for new employees, but can not force existing employees into this condition of employment if they do not agree to it. Am I right?

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## Dave A

> I have a problem with honesty and decide I want to do a veracity test. But you can not do it if the employee does not agree to do one. I can now make it a condition of employment for new employees, but can not force existing employees into this condition of employment if they do not agree to it. Am I right?


Post 7 in this dismissal for theft discussion has a very informative attachment. Based on that there has to be consent.

So I guess you're right (although I can already hear the squealing about unequal negotiating positions at time of acceptance).

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