# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Moral integrity for sale.

## Dave A

A nation's integrity is for sale.
Sorry - make that sold!

To refuse the Dalai Lama entry into the country for a peace conference... How do you justify that?



> The government's decision to deny the Dalai Lama an entry visa into the country may well have cost the country its peace conference. 
> 
> On Tuesday, conveners of the peace conference hastily postponed the event indefinitely because of the controversy around the government's decision to bar the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader.
> 
> This means South Africa's Hollywood princess and newly appointed UN Peace Ambassador, Charlize Theron, will not be visiting the country.
> 
> The Dalai Lama - the 1989 Nobel Peace Prize laureate - was among the international dignitaries billed to attend Friday's peace conference in Johannesburg. The conference had the backing of South African laureates Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu and F W de Klerk.
> 
> Tutu and De Klerk have said they will boycott the event if the Dalai Lama is not given a visa.
> ...


In an unusual break in ranks, even Health minister Barbara Hogan has publicly criticised the decision.

I guess the IOU on the ANC's funding from China has been called.

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## garthu

> Thabo Masebe, speaking for President Kgalema Motlanthe, reiterated the government's position that the Dalai Lama's visit would not be in the best interests of the country.


What really bugs me.. and IT REALLY BUGS me is when something clearly is a stuff up like this, they just talk absolute cuck. It's so frustrating  :Banghead:

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## insulin

I will only say this: Peace is not profitable but war is very profitable. So what do you do? Make sure the peace talks are ineffective... The story speaks for itself.

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## garthu

Barbara Hogan




> "The fact that the government has refused entry to the Dalai Lama is an example of a government who is dismissive of human rights," she said before adding that the government ought to apologise to South African citizens.


10 bucks she gets rapped over the knuckles for this for "not understanding politics"

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## Dave A

> 10 bucks she gets rapped over the knuckles for this for "not understanding politics"


I'm telling you the ANC have a tiger by the tail with Barbara Hogan. She doesn't seem the type to quietly toe the party line on moral issues.

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## garthu

NICE! About time... :Thumbup:

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## garthu

There we go



> "At the moment, she must be called to account for her conduct. We can't have an organisation in which anarchy reigns where people just wake up and say whatever they want to say," Godongwana said.


Anarchy?? Thats pretty strong. Quite clear you may not have your own opinion in the ANC. Called for her to resign. Anyway, i dont think she'll go down without a fight as you say

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Dave A (26-Mar-09)

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## Morticia

1) We cannot upset China by allowing the Dalai Lama to visit SA.  I mean really, what were you thinking????!!!!!

2)  Barbara Hogan has just been promoted to Minister of Garden Services and Other Ancillary Services.

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## Debbiedle

I urge you all to read a book titled Wild Swans 3 daughters of China by Jung Chang.  This country is in deep trouble.  The parallels are uncanny.  The ramifications earth shattering. I feel sickened as we have been violated as a nation.

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## Dave A

Barbara Hogan for President!  :Thumbup:

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Morticia (26-Mar-09)

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## Alan

Wait....wait,........ i need to get more popcorn.

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## Sieg

Why is it that - 

* We bank at a bank that is owned by the Chinese? [Standard]
* We watched the Beijing Olympics
* We buy Chinese cars (Chana)
* We buy chinese products (despite the Melamine scare)
* we do business with the Chinese, etc etc

yet we kick up a fuss when the Chinese communist government tells its communist comrades in the ANC not to allow the Dalai Lama into South Africa or else they will pull their funding?

Did we really expect any other reaction?

Sieg

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## duncan drennan

> I urge you all to read a book titled Wild Swans 3 daughters of China by Jung Chang.  This country is in deep trouble.


Care to outline the thinking in the book?




> Did we really expect any other reaction?


I think there are still some people under the delusion that human rights are actually important in South Africa. When last did SA make ANY foreign policy decision that supported human rights? Ummm....wait....I'm still trying to think of one.....give me a while....

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## Dave A

> I think there are still some people under the delusion that human rights are actually important in South Africa.


That would be me for one  :Embarrassment: 

But wait - I'm *in* South Africa. And I am a South African. And so are all those other people who are miserable about this atrocity - including Barbara Hogan  :Clap: 

Maybe the "don't care about human rights" crew is just some small camp somewhere - like the top brass of the Alliance of Notorious Cronies or something.

So has the ANC's cover of democracy, freedom, equality before the law, individual rights etc. finally been blown?

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## Debbiedle

> Care to outline the thinking in the book?


Duncan it is the most readable book ever about the history of China under the communistic leadership of Mao Tse Tsung - told without malice by a Chinese female highlighting the dire circumstances under which an entire nation lived as a result of a really great ideology that went wrong.  It is the most enlightening book I have ever read.  It is also very well written.  

There are times that I had to simply put it down and stare blankly as the inhumanity was too awful to digest, especially when compared to what is going down in this country.  Read it!  It's absolutely life changing.  I will hopefully become a far more proactive citizen because of this book.

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## Debbiedle

> Why is it that - 
> 
> * We bank at a bank that is owned by the Chinese? [Standard]
> * We watched the Beijing Olympics
> * We buy Chinese cars (Chana)
> * We buy chinese products (despite the Melamine scare)
> * we do business with the Chinese, etc etc
> 
> yet we kick up a fuss when the Chinese communist government tells its communist comrades in the ANC not to allow the Dalai Lama into South Africa or else they will pull their funding?
> ...


Sieg, yes!  I expect the leaders of this country who are by no means stupid to employ the very best lawyers who should not be stupid either,  and to draft agreements according to THIS countries laws and requirements and to delete and bring to the fore the clauses that may later come back and bite us in the backside.  I expect that.  They earn a fricken fortune!!  As far as I am concerned, if this was my CEO that had to bow down in this manner to a dictatorial client because he "missed" the obvious, he would be out on the street.

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## Morticia

I also read an autobiography "Mao's little Soldiers" - along similar vein.  Name of the author escapes me now (good heavens, who has a cure for memory lapses??) but I'm sure it's "google-able".

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## garthu

I have to agree with Debbie here. It's atrocious that something as important as democracy and rights can be blown aside for a "fear" of intruding on a friendship. There are often occasions i have turned away perfectly good money (as it just all is!) because a of racism, ethics etc. Sometimes it hurts, but to me its more important that your true colours show. I don't think this about politics, it's about back pockets, lined at whatever cost.. Sure ANC's cover is blown! 

Dave - Hogan for President!! :Thumbup:

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## Dave A

Apparently the visa was refused because they don't want politics to interfere with the 2010 Soccer World Cup.

I see there has been quite a lot of reminiscing about the 1980's in all the fuss. Anyone else remember "No normal sport in an abnormal society"?

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## Dave A

All quite predictable.



> Health Minister Barbara Hogan has apologised to her Cabinet colleagues after criticising her own government's controversial decision to bar the Dalai Lama last month.
> 
> Government spokesman Themba Maseko said in Pretoria yesterday that the cabinet had accepted the apology and the minister wouldn't be fired.
> 
> Hogan had been questioned about her remarks that the government must apologise for refusing to issue a visa to the Tibetan spiritual leader.
> 
> He said the minister was able to give the cabinet the context in which she had criticised her own government, and then tendered an apology.
> 
> "The minister is not going anywhere. She remains the minister of health, she is not going to be removed from her post.
> full story from IOL here


And they all lived happily ever after...

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Graeme (18-Apr-09)

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## Superscenic

Ouch that hurt. Somebody give me some cheap Chinese painkillers.

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