# General Business Category > Marketing Forum >  Need Marketing Help? Post your questions here

## Raymond Smit

Hey members, if you need help in: 

1) Getting more customers
2) Getting those customers to come back more often
3) And selling at higher prices

Post your questions here. I'll do my best to give you those answers straight up.

----------


## Mark Atkinson

Okay, here's a scenario for you:

You own a business in a super competitive field.  PPC prices are through the roof, despite a determined, continual effort to optimize and improve.  Your SEO efforts are slowly bringing becoming more rewarding, but you're in such a competitive field it's a lot slower than it could be.  You maintain profiles on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn already and try to engage in conversation with your target market via those mediums. 

You blog about things your target market should be interested in. You try to add a whole heap of value to your clients and potential clients through everything you do. 

Despite your solid track record and hard work, you are still not bringing in as much business as you would like to *without* spending a whole heap on Adwords and Facebook advertising. 

What do you try next to bring in more customers in the short term?

----------


## IanF

How do you deal with customers when your industry is contracting. Just found out today a big envelope manufacturer has been liquidated. 
I have just raised my prices as raw materials wages and overheads have all increased.

----------


## Raymond Smit

Mark I'll grab your Q first. From what you said it seems like you may have trouble converting, is that correct? Anyway, use the assets you already have in place.
Make it a part of your business (in your agreement with your customers) to get referrals & testimonials [it's free and you can do it today]. Your website is very
professional and has a sleek look and feel to it. However, could you include some benefits/risk reversal to compel readers to do business with you? 

Everyone it seems (unfortunately) offers web design. Therefore it becomes even more important for you to know what sets you apart from others. What is your USP? 
Why should I do business with you and not someone else? If you can't come up with that - could you improve on your business model? In other words could you come up with
a more compelling way to do business? Could you shift the appeal? In other words - could you sell me a result, money at a discount? Survey your customers and find out
what they really want (do they themselves want more leads for example). Then broker leads instead of selling web design. This is just a quick example of shifting the buying criteria.

Watch out for ppc! I wouldn't touch it without having several hundred ads running. Bidding only on the main keywords is a sure way to lose the shirt on your back.
There's only one way to do ppc properly - speedppc. Also check out tonyroocroft.com (he's the adwords master). I'd see if I can do a website critique for you to help you convert better 
(I think there are several ways you can do that). Hoped this helped.

----------


## Raymond Smit

Ian, meaning your industry is diminishing or getting squeezed? Now is the time for you to go on the offensive. When competitors go out of business, 
offer to take over their customers for a share of the profit. (Forward their business number to yours). Could you just quickly rephrase, is it your suppliers 
who seems to be leaving or your competitors?

----------


## IanF

Raymond
The industry is shrinking, I have offered shops closing down a percentage of sales if I take over their customers including artwork. But everyone wanted money upfront. So I will wait. Then I found out yesterday about the envelope manufacturer being in liquidation, so this spooked me a bit.
At the moment we are debt free but know there are newer printers we should buy, but I am reluctant as they are expensive.

My big fear is when businesses are on the last legs they cut prices. 

That is why a laser engraver we bought last year was a good buy.

Anyway how do you handle a shrinking market and raise prices?

----------


## Raymond Smit

Ian, that is a tough one. If the market completely dissapears, no amount of marketing will help you. I nor any marketing consultant out there can market a product that nobody wants (or needs). 
No amount of kicking and screaming can bring the typewriter, the typewriter repairman or the elevator man back :P. So this is a call on your part. Is there still a market for your services?
Can you resegment the market? Can you target a part of the 20% of the market that does 80% of the buying?

The companies that want money upfront = they don't want to give up on their business. Heck no entrepreneur wants to. My suggestion: Do a sequential mailing to these folks. Side with them, 
comfort them, reitirate the benefits joining with you (money eventually or no money from that business ever). Offer to do a little test to see how it goes and then they can decide whether to move
all of their customers to you. You have to make clear to these folks that their customers will be looked after when they go over to you. Imagine if you went through sequestration and someone offers
to buy your house. You'd think the guy is a shark and want to make a quick buck off of you. It's the same situation with these types of businesses in liquidation. Therefore you have to make multiple
offers to them and build a relationship with them.

----------


## Dave A

> Anyway how do you handle a shrinking market and raise prices?


Survive until you get to the legacy stage where there's good money to be made...

Or focus on aspects of the print business that aren't going to go away in a hurry - like packaging.

----------


## IanF

> Survive until you get to the legacy stage where there's good money to be made...
> 
> Or focus on aspects of the print business that aren't going to go away in a hurry - like packaging.


Dave, Basically that is what we are doing now, NCR books and pads still sell reasonably well. I look at the few letterpress shops around (foiling and die cutting) and these guys do well.
As for packaging there you need to invest a lot a press operator told me about the cost of a swiss machine and the training needed for the latest and greatest packaging and I can't compete in that league.
Maybe I should try and highlight marketing pads again they are reasonably timeless

----------


## Wiele

Hi Everyone.

Found the forum last night and I would like some of your Ideas if possible. I have tried just about every work from home program or business but most have failed. I have now finally found a business opportunity that I feel has the potential to earn me a decent income for life.

Before I continue let me explain why I have no other option than to work from home. I'm a quadriplegic, for those who don't know what that is, I'm in a wheelchair with limited use of my hands and typing is done with a “typing stick”. I'm not telling you this to get your pity, I'm telling you to keep this in mind when suggesting anything. For instance I cannot get into a car and go see clients.

Ok so I have found this opportunity and need to do some marketing. What would be the best approach?

As part of my dealership I have received a website with all the product details as well as suggested marketing material. The product is also focused on businesses so it's not something I can promote to everyone I know.

I have created a facebook page and shared it on my personal page with everyone. I'm thinking of creating a Twitter account but have not done it yet. I'm also in the process of placing an Facebook add as the cost for newspaper adverts is very expensive, shocking actually. Should link my facebook ad to my website or to my facebook page?

I have also started sending emails to businesses with info regarding the product, however I'm not sure should I contact the business by phone before sending the email or send the mail first. 

Also I'm thinking of employing someone but cannot really give a salary so it will be on commission only basis and allowing them to work from home. The opportunity does cater for referrals so it can be done on the same principals with better compensation.

Well that's the start I'm sure Ill have more questions as suggestions come in, thx

----------


## Dave A

Note to self - send memo to *everyone* to not phone 0839... numbers. 
If a business gives that as their contact number, tell them you expect a 10% discount or you'll find another business to buy from.
If a client gives that as their contact number, mark up the price quoted 10% and ask for their credit card number and CVV.

----------


## Mark Atkinson

Oh wow...

----------


## Wiele

I take it you don't like the concept/company. Companies that do implementing these numbers, like DSTV, do and should provide landline numbers as well, this leave the choice up to the caller to what number he wants to call. Here's an example https://care.dstv.com/main.aspx?id=243 .

Something interesting that most people don't know is phoning FreeCall (080), ShareCall (0860) or MaxiCall (0861) numbers  from a cell phone is charged at full cellphone rates and in most cases free minutes don't apply. It's only free or discounted when phoning from a landline. Companies using these lines are also required to state in advertising that calls to these numbers from a cellphone is charnged at cellphone rates, but very few do.

So you don't think there's a market for this product? Personally I feel the target market, which is people phoning from cellphones, will be paying the same per call as phoning a FreeCall (080) number, the difference being with 0839 numbers the company can benefit as well.

I would still like some Ideas on promoting this product if you or anyone have some.

----------


## Dave A

> I take it you don't like the concept/company.


At the very least it's wasteful - just give your direct number and cut out the middleman who's only reason for being in the communication line at all is to enrich the person/company I'm trying to call, and as I'm a client they're getting money out of me anyway.

On DSTV:



And they indicate it's at VAS rates  :EEK!: 
But at least there are other options provided.  :Smile: 

So may I ask, where's the value-add to the client in this parasitic deal?

----------


## Wiele

This is fun, constructive and helps to see how other people sees a product. This is very helpful in understanding why people would not want a product.

The problem is that there's a middleman in just about any business and most of them we are so used to being there that we do not question them.

Any business using 0839 number are required inform their customers of the rates as well as providing alternative numbers. Business using FreeCall (080), ShareCall (0860) or MaxiCall (0861) numbers are also required to inform customers that calls to these numbers from a cellphone is charged at cellphone rates, but very few do.

So what makes it a parasitic deal? If customers calling these numbers are informed of the rates and still choose to use these numbers its surely less parasitic than a customer phoning to a FreeCall (080) number from a cellphone thinking its free yet they are charged at full cellphone rate, or are you suggesting the cellphone companies to be the parasites or the company failing to inform the customer phoning to those numbers?

So what value does this deal gives? The question is now what value does my client get or my clients clients get.

My client gets
1 - Extra revenue
2 – Should he move premisses his customers can still get hold of him
3 – Should telkom lines be stolen / faulty for extended period of time the landline number can be changed to reduce loss of business to other branches or homelines.

My Clients, clients

1 – Should my client moves premisses his customers can still get hold of him
2 – Should telkom lines be stolen / faulty for extended periods of time can still get hold off him.

Well I have made peace with the fact I will not be getting any advise, but my eyes have been opened on how different people can see a product. Remember to ask for your 10% discount when phoning a toll free number from your cellphone because you will be charged.

----------


## Dave A

> Remember to ask for your 10% discount when phoning a toll free number from your cellphone because you will be charged.


My experience is they've come out of my free minutes though - it's not been billed on a VAS basis  :Confused: 

There are a few other areas where your benefits are far from unique - o8o and o86 numbers are incredibly programmable in term of their redirects and are seldom (if ever) the final line number. I'm aware of one franchise operation in particular which markets just one 086 number nationally - the call is sent to the nearest franchise to the caller entirely automatically.




> Well I have made peace with the fact I will not be getting any advise


I had toyed with suggesting that this area might be a rich source of prospects earlier, but I only mention it now tongue-in-cheek  :Wink: 

My more serious advice would be to read my current signature  :Big Grin: 
It's just not something I'd go for as I believe it'll harm my business's reputation and posture (I already think less of DSTV now that I know they've gone for it). It's a personal line, I guess - and certainly doesn't mean there aren't others that *will* go for it. 

I might even be proved wrong in my position...

----------


## IanF

Wiele,
You have heard from a businessman's perspective as to a major objection to your product. Look for a direct answer to question of cost to the client's client and don't ignore the objection.
A major client of mine has now instituted a 086 fax number for all their staff, when I see that I ask for the email address the fax goes to and rather scan and email

----------


## Wiele

It is true there are a few areas where this product are not unique. On 086 numbers, here is a quote from a company that supplies 086 numbers

Facts To Concider. 
When using the 086 numbers, information of value must be relayed to the caller. 
All advertising should include: "Calls charged at VAS rates. Free minutes do not apply." 

Here's the link http://www.free086numbers.co.za/ 

Also these lines are not real programmable, they are just redirected to an landline with an IVR  (Interactive Voice Response) installed, PABX or any other services. 




> It's just not something I'd go for as I believe it'll harm my business's reputation and posture (I already think less of DSTV now that I know they've gone for it). It's a personal line, I guess - and certainly doesn't mean there aren't others that will go for it.


Now that to me is a honest and respectable answer from a businessman's perspective, not the first response. This one line has more value than anything else that was said.

----------


## Dave A

> Also these lines are not real programmable, they are just redirected to an landline with an IVR  (Interactive Voice Response) installed, PABX or any other services.


 :Hmmm:  If we go to source, there are other options available.

Setting up SmartAccess for my companies is actually on my to-do list for this year. But it seems I'm going to have to take a closer look at the way these calls are billed from cellphones.

----------


## BusNavig8

Ok. I have read ALL the posts with interest. The things that strike me the most are :

The Model :  Offline / Online or a combination.

Target Markets : Mass or Niche

Areas of Specialisation : Generalists or Specialists??

Differentiation and Innovation??

Liquidations - On the outside can look like shrinking markets or other factors - but there are a LOT of contributing factors - Bottlenecks, Knowledge Silo's, Job traps, Business failing for the wrong reasons, faulty concepts. Faulty thinking, not having your fingers on the pulse of your cashflow, chashing turnover, and making a loss in the process. It takes approx 10 days to loose complete focus! and 21 days to learn a new habit  but the old habit will always be there. Change back. 

Business Rescue - Dont leave it till its too late. Brand Extentions in a shrinking market.

Customer Retention VS Customer Loyalty

----------


## BusNavig8

How do you get your marketing ideas to go viral?

----------


## BusNavig8

Wiele,

I looked at the Paytel site and personally think it would be really difficult to market, even under the Affiliate programe. It does not seem to have negative Internet publicity but I suspect that there are hidden clauses in the terms of use for the users. (Mimimum useage clauses). You would need an accounts executive to keep your existing businesses in the system. You would need a really focussed and motivated sales team. Dont under any circumstances give a salary!
How are you going to deal with maintaing the team. You should have two marketing teams with two different approaches.  You would need an admin system. That is quite easy today however. You would most definately need a mentor. Then there's the question of legality: has Paytel complied with all the legal requirements to operate?

----------


## Norri

Wiele,

I think the bottom line here is that to make real money with this, you will need to sell a LOT of numbers (in excess of 1,000 - safer to aim for 5,000). So you should realistically expect this business to take up to 5 years before it really gives you an income you can rely on. It's a very similar module to the 086 fax2email business model and I know someone who makes R20k a month from that business but it took 2 years of HEAVY promotion to get there.

It's a numbers game.

In my opinion, you're better off finding something that people can subscribe to for R500-R1,000 a month and sell LESS to make MORE. Sure, the higher price means lower conversion rates, but it also means less clients.

Perhaps train yourself up on Google AdWords (get certified, buy 3-5 courses and really EXPERIMENT to get good). Then you can offer this service to people for R500+ p/m. Aim for companies with an ad-spend of R5,000 or more a month and charge 10% of their ad-spend. This is a proven model that works. Yes a lot of Saffers will insist on meeting you before doing business but I, as a rule, never meet for projects less than R20k and I'm still in business. I lose clients but they're the type of clients I don't want anyway - high maintenance.

So, in short, earning from home is doable but playing the numbers game will drive you mad. Ask me, I've sold over 900 websites in the last 2-3 years and my monthly cashflow is pathetic because I used to aim at the entry-level part of the market. Now that I'm aiming for the middle to high, I sell less websites, work less, and make more money.

My AdWords idea is just one idea. Another would be to buy Dragon Naturally Speaking and use it to write articles and sell them on iWriter.com. You can earn a few dollars per article for just talking to your PC!

Yet another idea, if you have expertise in any one area, would be to offer Skype-based coaching. You would need to market yourself well but, if you can deliver results, over time you'll come right.

Yet another idea is to set up and online support community for fellow quads who need advice on living as normal a life as possible. You WON'T make money initially unless you can get sponsorships but, if you get the right people to join up, you'll build up a community of people that you can promote other people's products to in return for a commission.

One last idea: Any form of affiliate marketing is DEFINITELY within your reach. Go to www.warriorforum.com. Sign up then pay for "War Room" access and pick just one of the WSOs there focused on affiliate marketing and give it your best shot. You WILL  need money for hosting, domains, article writing, etc, but it can definitely work. (This stuff ain't easy, despite what the gurus say. But it DOES work and CAN lead to an automated income. Most importantly, don't try affiliate marketing in SA. It works but it's 5 times harder than just selling US products to US consumers.)

Gosh, that's the longest post I've written on a forum in AGES! Hope it helps  :Smile:

----------

BusNavig8 (12-Feb-12)

----------


## Wiele

Thank you for your responses it has definitely been informative.

1) MINIMUM USAGE

After your initial first 6 months your Paytel number has to continually receive no less than 1 hours calls per month ( averaged over 3 months). Should your Paytel number receive less calls than 3 hours over a 3 month period we will give you a 30 day notice that your number will become eligible for recycling should the situation not change. If after a further 30 days there is no change on the number the number will be suspended and made available for recycling. This number may then be assigned to other customers.

I don't know what all the legal requirements are but to my knowledge they have complied. I also know they and the customers are lawfully required to inform the customers of the call costs in any advertising.

Your info on marketing teams are very helpful, currently I'm alone so Ill need to look into it. Admin is very easy since everything is displayed in the dealer web based dashboard, with full stats.

Norri you have given me some great options to follow up en will definitely be looking into them. 

Thanks BusNavig8 and Norri your advice is really appreciated.

Norri I would like your opinion on this http://www.website.ws, http://worldsite.ws . They offer a affiliate program that's similar to MLM. Here's a link to a affiliate site http://globaldomainsint.ws/ .

Please note I'm have not signed up with them and I'm not trying to promote them only asking since you  mentioned not to try affiliate marketing in SA, and was wondering if this is something I should consider.

----------


## Norri

Wiele, I'm not a fan of the website.ws thing or MLM. I do believe MLM works but, like anything, it's a real business that takes real work and if you're not a good one-on-one sales guy, I don't think it's a good model.

(Although Robert Kiyosaki recommends MLM as a way of BECOMING a good sales guy. Keep that in mind. I think he's right. I just never had the time to invest in "learning to be a good salesperson". I rather spend my time building automated marketing funnels that work whether I do or not. Personal thing.)

----------


## BusNavig8

Now THAT! Is a brilliant post and really good advice! I am in the process of setting up an affiliate programme but within my own base of clients, it is a challenge to get a system that works but it is a client need so we have to do it. 

Your experience about the entry level is crucial. Ive seen so many businesses actually loose money because of this. The main enemy here is one's own mindset. Its a paradigm shift that needs to take place. We are by far not the cheapest in the market, but that is the way in which we by pass the low end and the time consuming clients. You dont cut them out completely but then at least you get paid well for it.

----------


## Jovana

Bus, I know of a fantastic affiliate program runner but it's mainly done through Paypal.

jvzoo.com - it allows instant affiliate commissions and is the best I've used (for online products and services). 

IF you're going to go on the Warrior forum - BEWARE OF THE WARRIOR SPECIAL OFFER FORUM - a lot of the products on their are actually shit and don't live up to the hopes of the buyer.

----------


## BusNavig8

> Bus, I know of a fantastic affiliate program runner but it's mainly done through Paypal.
> 
> jvzoo.com - it allows instant affiliate commissions and is the best I've used (for online products and services). 
> 
> IF you're going to go on the Warrior forum - BEWARE OF THE WARRIOR SPECIAL OFFER FORUM - a lot of the products on their are actually shit and don't live up to the hopes of the buyer.


You are a *Star* thank you thank you thank you just what I was looking for! jvzoo.com  :Smile:

----------


## robinsonwang

> Hey members, if you need help in: 
> 
> 1) Getting more customers
> 2) Getting those customers to come back more often
> 3) And selling at higher prices
> 
> Post your questions here. I'll do my best to give you those answers straight up.


How to attract more affiliates? How to get more clicks and sales?

----------


## Raymond Smit

Hey Robin, 

Use my marketing arbitrage concept. Meaning go to your biggest competitors (amazon for example) and reverse engineer their web design, copy, layout etc. 
They have spent millions of dollars split testing the right design to let customers buy as much as possible from their website. Once you've improved your own
conversions, develop a good training program and show affiliates how to make money, then you can start to attract affiliates.

You can get affiliates by googling (is that a word? :P) your industry search terms. You are looking for people who have websites and who have email lists. This way 
you'll find the people with the websites that are highly ranked. Then you simply send them a jv proposal by email or ring them up. 

Or even better, go outside your industry, see who is offering a high ticket item (like a high priced seminar, info product etc) and offer one of your products as a bonus. 
There's just one catch. You have to test it, to see if it will work.

----------


## globaldomain

How do we get marketing ideas?

----------

