# General Business Category > Scam Alert Forum >  Haltrex Systems Scam?

## Karenwhe

Has anyone encountered the issues with Haltrex Systems.

They seem to send out cartridges "sell" over the phone - so you don't have a contract with them just try their products for 30 days.

Then send you the invoice for those products they sent you to your post and say that the invoices it is a binding contract to continue buying if you pay them for the first cartridges.

*The problem is that you did not have a contract with them because they sold you over the phone and never told you of this so called contract.* 

So if you pay them, you have a contract if you don't they sue you for not paying. So, as a consumer you are screwed anyway once they send you the ink.

Then they keep sending and you send back the ink, and they keep sending and you send back the ink, and they keep sending and then they start treating you to sue you if you don't order from them.

Anyone know about this?

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AttaN (04-Mar-09), Chatmaster (29-Sep-08)

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## Dave A

All that is missing is an integrated surety against whomever signs the delivery note!

Pretty sharp practice.

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## Karenwhe

But no one signs any delivery form because it is sent often to a POB.

I heard this from a few people and saw now complaint on hellopeter and several months ago in one of our businesses we tried their products and got stuck with the same problem.

Is no one aware of this at large yet?

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## Marq

Thanks for the heads up.

I think just let them sue. Send them back their cartridge and a no thank you letter.

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## Vanessa Stevenson

Hi Karen

You situation with them appears to be a carbon copy of ours... when we sent back stock not ordered they tried to redeliver saying it was already paid for and account was in credit... I know that this is not the case as I do the accounts!!!  He lied to our Secretary who controls the printing budget and places orders, he like to me, he lied to our School manager, and then forgot that he had spoken to her directly and tried a different tack lying to her again on follow up.  

The owner/manager of this company is quite the consumate salesman - he will say anthing to try to force his stock on a prospective client.  The mistake is to deal with them in the first place... they then double the original (telphone) order and keep sending and keep sending and keep sending...

We are well rid of these unethical people... (I hope finally !!!)

Vanessa

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AttaN (04-Mar-09)

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## Karenwhe

I think this is quite concerning. Because I am sure there must be more people that fall into this.

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## QUINN

Next year the Consumer Protection Act will come into force and this will effectively make this practice illegal. Its called negative option selling :Rant1:

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## Scotty

Hi 
One of the things not mentioned so far in this thread is the fact that Haltrex send a "free gift" with the cartridge. This free gift in our instance was a Woolworths gift voucher. This therefore entraps the stationary buyer, which in many businesses is a junior person, who then tries to cover up the over pricing by Haltrex. At this point in time they have sent us an unsolicited cartridge which we have told them we do not want. We have ignored their invoices & now they are threatening to blacklist us. We have told them they can pick up their cartrdge at any time which they seem reluctant to do. Has anyone got a solution for these people as they are pissing me off.

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## gwenbarger

Just like everyone else, I have the same story to tell. I got a phone call from Haltrex systems, selling me one of their ink cartridges, it was delivered to me, and was paid for. Then the fun began, they delivered another 2 ink cartridges which I did not order. I tried to phone the company, no one would take my calls or return my calls (Got a detailed telephone account to prove it).

So, I just waited for their phone call, and that I got today. They confirmed that I only ordered 1 cartridge, but because it was on promotion, they send you more, this time 2, and the next delivery will be 3. She offered to cancell any future deliveries, but insited that I have to pay for the other two.

I told her that I did not want these cartridges, as we are a very small company, and we only use 1 ink cartridge in 6 months. She told me that they will not take back any stock even if the parcel is still sealed. Surely this is not allowed. How can they operate like this and get away with it.  :Taz:

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AttaN (04-Mar-09)

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## Dave A

Has anyone been sued or blacklisted by these guys yet?

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## Vanessa Stevenson

Haltrex again.  I received a phone message last week to ask when we were going to pay their account.  I declined to return the call.  On Monday their call came through to my extension and started to query money "owed" to them.  I stated that we did not owe them any money, the caller said I should just pay the amount outstanding or she threatened legal action - to which I told her she should go ahead.  I await the outcome.  We have been on this merry go around before - She then tried to call my head mistress to discuss it with her and our sharp receptionist refused to put her through.  We are not inclined to get into any discussion with them at all.

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## AttaN

:Banghead: In December 2007 our Front Office Manager received a phone call from a sales person called Faith.  She introduced their products and prices and offered to send 1 cartridge as a sample.

We duly received the "sample" and then an invoice.  Then the deliveries started arriving.  Phone calls, faxes - no response.  When we did get through to Faith, she duly passed us on to Mark - who insisted that we agreed to a contract of 36 when we accepted the sample.  They claim that this information was made clear at the time of the first call.  The Manager that took the call is a professional and very aware of expenses for his department and would not make any such agreements - as this is done by the finance department.

Needless to say, we have sent back parcels, made phone calls, sent faxes, with no end in sight.

Phone calls to Mark were made and he verbally confirmed that the order was cancelled.  Vouchers were received for "our inconvenience".

On requesting that they confirm in writing that the order is cancelled - we are still waiting.

4 December 2008 our Financial Director told Mark that we do not want their products and that they should not send any further parcels.  He ended up putting the phone down after a screaming match on the phone with Mark

The arrogance of these people is astounding !

Mark told our Director in December 2008 that the order we received is the last one and that we could pay the account over 4 months.  

Mark phoned my bookkeeper on 16/02/2009 requesting that she pay the last amount due of R 3416.58 and if she paid it on 16/02/2009 she can deduct R416.58 as discount.  This was done in my absence whilst on leave.

Today, 04/03/2009 JP phones to thank us for the business and wishes to inform me that the balance of our order of 45 is on it's way with a voucher of R1000 to say thank you !!!

I lost it !!  There was no sense in even trying to explain the cancellation and conversations with Mark !!

This is most definitely not a legal business practice.

On searching the web - I came across more companies complaining of the same scam.

Someone needs to stop this company !!

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## Dave A

If the packages are being posted, can they be identified as being from Haltrex without opening the package?

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## garthu

From what i'm getting on this, even that wouldn't help as i recall someone saying they wanted to send them back and they couldn't. These guys really seem to be bad news. I think it might be worth a bash to Carte blanche, 3rd degree etc?? They might just pick up on it - imagine the damage they would do  :Wink: 

Does anyone know who you would report this to?? Out of curiosity from my side.

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## Dave A

If you haven't opened the package, just write RTS across your address and drop it in a post box or hand it in over the counter if it doesn't fit through the slot. The post office isn't in on this scam, and they've got their own rules for doing things  :Wink: 

You can submit a story to Carte Blanche here.

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## Karenwhe

Some times last year we have been approached on property investor network  by Carte Blanche if we know investors and people that are repossessed for their story.

I think I still have the journalists email address, I know her name, but have to find the address if anyone is interested in writing to them you can PM me and I will give you the name and try to find the email.

As a side note, I think that people should keep updated on this thread with what is happening, hopefully other people won't be scammed and if a law suit does come up from them, you can have more support of others that have been scammed.

I really don't know how they can keep this up.

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## Dave A

Google _haltrex_.

 :Big Grin:

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## Martinco

> Has anyone been sued or blacklisted by these guys yet?


The scary part is that once you are registered with some credit bureau you can blacklist anyone for being a "poor payer" for R35.00.  :Confused:

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## garthu

> Google haltrex.


  Hmm.. nice. Wonder when they'll click?  :Big Grin:  Excuse the pun....

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## duncan drennan

They have....erm....interesting....terms and conditions of sale on their website. Look at this part,




> A binding contract for the sale of goods shall be deemed to come into existence when an offer to purchase goods from Haltrex Systems (Pty) Ltd, has been made by the buyer and subsequently accepted, by Haltrex Systems (Pty) Ltd, sending to the buyer an Order Acknowledgement Form and/or delivering the goods to the buyer.


So according to their terms of sale, all they have to do is deliver the goods to you for you to be bound by their terms. Surely this is rubbish. Maybe I should put some terms of purchase up on my site which say that unless an official purchase order is received then no invoices will be accepted for processing...regardless of whether I have received the goods or not  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## garthu

To add that, all they have to do is send you a fax  :EEK!: 




> sending to the buyer an Order Acknowledgement Form


Acknowledgment is spelt wrong  :Big Grin:  just to rub it in some more....

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## Karenwhe

I may be wrong, but I do not believe those terms stand for anything, because you did not buy from the website and because you did not click "accept" to any terms and conditions in essence and you where not been made aware of these.

Otherwise you next door grocer, would come to you and say: _"you agreed to buy milk from my store for the next 50 years every day..... didn't you know that?????... it is written on my website, if you buy one you buy for the next 50 years daily, so we will deliver 2 lt of milk daily to you and charge you and if you don't want it we will charge you anyway."_

It doesn't make legal sense or any sense at all.

You have no contract with them and never did. If you accept a delivery, you probably will have to pay for that, but not for those that you do not want and send them back.

I have not heard from them even again, after the last massive screaming match. I belive they now pray on new customers because they know they don't stand a chance in court anyway.

Again I could be wrong, I am not a lawyer.

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## duncan drennan

> It doesn't make legal sense or any sense at all.


Yip, my point exactly. It is all nonsense, but if you prey on people and companies that are either too small to resist, or too large to care then you can probably rake in a fair amount of cash with this overly pushy and abrasive sales tactic.

How do you stop this asap? Cease and desist letter from a lawyer?

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## Dave A

To save on searches, the Haltrex terms and conditions are here.

It's all subject to an order from the purchaser, and I don't see anything about a binding, ongoing contract there for futher supplies.

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## Karenwhe

> How do you stop this asap?


I would love to know the answer to this question.

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## garthu

Is there not a consumer council type setup.. there has to be, i just dont know who they are though in SA. DTI, would they have a say??

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## Dave A

Reading between the lines so far - screaming seems to work  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## twinscythe12332

Contract, legal definition they're sneaky. the verbal contract would probably hold up in court unless you can prove they tried to send you more than $500 worth of stuff(I can only guess this is commercial goods). however it would appear if you can prove that through the initial phone calls there was no suggestion of exchange (no benefit to the other party) it's null. 

otherwise, don't wait for the written confirmation of a cancellation, have your phone tapped and get the verbal proof.

anyway, this is just my opinion on the matter.

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## twinscythe12332

revised look

apologies, turns out setting Google to "pages from South Africa" doesn't filter out the crap from America(as my dad kindly pointed out, gritting his teeth).

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Dave A (10-Mar-09)

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## Dave A

A far better link for a South African contract problem!

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## insulin

First of legal battles are a big problem in South Africa partly because our law and credit law can be abused to the point where you can legally destroy a person or company by submitting false information. This is a flaw that is bad news to honest companies and hardworking individuals. I recommend you register with a proper legal firm that knows industrial commercial and criminal law. Then find out from someone like good old Telkom for a recording system that record all incoming and outgoing calls that is if Telkom can help but I am sure that there are systems available to the commercial user. These two systems will provide you with some armour when the next scam comes into play. Also note that you have to say before anyone picks the phones up that: “All calls may be recorded for security purposes” This will easily disprove any so called agreement in a courtroom.    :Fence:

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## jumbo

Hi

Ok, so they got me as well, spoke to the so called General Manager this morning and she also said she will hand me over to their legal department if i dont pay....

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## Dave A

Hopefully the info in this thread will help you to tell them to get knotted in no uncertain terms.

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## jumbo

Hi

I send a request in to Carte Blanche, lets hope they r interested, I see the Faith is mentioned earlier in the tread as the sales lady, This morning she was sommer the General Manager
I also c they r listed on "hallopeter" and "sascam" websites...

But how is it possible that nothing happens with them ????

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## jumbo

Look like Haltrex Systems is really in business to scam u out of ur money..

found this in a Afrikaans local paper

Konsentraat voldoen nie aan vereistes

Mnr. Johan du Toit van Nelspruit was ontevrede met Haltrex Systems en het by ons kom aanklop. 

“Ek het 25 liter Multi-tranz-konsentraat by Haltrex Systems telefonies bestel. Ek het aan die verkoopsdame gevra wat my posisie sou wees indien die produk nie aan my behoeftes voldoen soos beloof nie. Sy het my elke keer verseker dat ek beslis tevrede sal wees en nooit melding gemaak dat ek verantwoordelik gehou sal word vir betaling indien ek niÃ© tevrede is nie.”

Du Toit vertel toe hy die produk ontvang en getoets het, was hy nie daarmee tevrede nie. 

“Ek het hulle dieselfde dag per faks laat weet dat ek nie tevrede is met die produk nie en dat hulle dit moet kom haal.”

Du Toit sÃª Haltrex Systems beskuldig hom nou van diefstal en hulle bied hom 40% afslag as hy die bestelling onmiddellik ten volle betaal. 

Ons het navraag gedoen en Haltrex Systems het nou die produk afgehaal en Du Toit hoef ook nie te betaal nie. Hy het ons bedank vir ons hulp.

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## Dave A

Enough bad publicity and Haltrex Systems will probably have to change their name.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

The light at the end of the tunnel would seem to be the Consumer Protection Act, but that looks like it will only kick in in 18 months time. In the meantime it would seem that a blunt refusal to accept their intimidation is the easiest way to go.

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## Tim P

RETURN OF GOODS AND CLOSURE OF ACCOUNT

Dear Tony,  (tony@haltrex.co.za)

Regarding our telephonic conversation. You asked us to return the ink to you which was not ordered by us, and to use the Woolworths voucher for R50.00 in order to cover the cost of postage.

We have looked in the box which was sent to us, there is no Woolworths voucher in the box, however we are sending the box containing the 4 ink packs back to your company by TRACK AND TRACE - SPEED SERVICES (COUNTER TO COUNTER) Tracking number - TA493244383ZA. - [You might want to look at the register of your Woolworths Vouchers and find out if and when - and more specifically where the voucher was cashed].  In many companies, the acceptance of any kind of voucher / gift above a minimal amount has to be declared to company management and entered into a register, because it opens the door to abuse.

You might also want to look at Google where, HALTREX SYSTEMS returns a large number of hits, many of them are complaints. Some of them described as HALTREX SCAM.

For example

http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...ead.php?t=3948

It is my opinion that there are some unusual business practices being performed by HALTREX which are likely to affect the company negatively. I for one, don't find it usual to be sent products in an unsolicited way, and then be treated badly and strong arm tactics tried on me by sales people, and then once put through to you when I asked for the Managing director. You need to know that what I order and what my needs are and how I settle payment for stuff is entirely MY perogative, and I will not be strong armed or bullied by anyone.
 :Applaud:  :Applaud:  :Applaud:  :Applaud: 
Further to this I was offended by your remarks which I consider racist towards Italian people, when I was simply answering your question wher you stated that I obviously had a problem with understanding English, and would  I like to continue in another language like Greek and mentioned some others. At some stage in the conversation you called me a pig and made disparaging remarks about my company just being a small company.

Just for fun, imagine if I was in the entertainment - stage - TV industry.  Who do you imagine an entertainment industry person would stand around the braai with on weekends? The entertainment industry is big and wide and comprises of producers / directors / actors / reporters etc.

I don't want you to perceive any of this email as a direct threat to you or your company or any of its agents or employees, but suffice to say that I will be watching the future of your company with some amount of interest.

Yours faithfully

Tim Pullen

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## daveob

:Applaud:

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## Tim P

This was sent to me, I don't know if this is related or not.

====


The Star, June 2008

Every week I receive emails which ram home the fact that the Consumer Protection Bill can't be passed into law quickly enough.

They provide perfect case studies for many of the bill's provisions.
Section 21, for example, concerns "unsolicited goods or services", and it states: "If a supplier delivers a larger quantity of goods than the consumer agreed to buy, the excess goods are unsolicited unless the consumer has rejected the entire delivery.

 "If a person is in possession of any unsolicited goods, the person may (a) retain the goods or - (b) return the goods to the apparent supplier or deliverer at the risk and expense of the supplier or deliverer."

Unfortunately for a pastor in Port Elizabeth, who asked not to be named, South African consumers don't yet have the protection of this bill, although it has, at least, been tabled in Parliament.

The pastor told me how he'd been approached by a Sandton-based business called SA Image Solutions, inviting him to buy what was said to be superior quality, oil-based printer cartridges. He agreed to buy one set at a cost of R980, and duly received the cartridges in the mail.

But it didn't end there. "Later they sent us another set of cartridges, then phoned, telling us to pay for them.
"I had a long argument with a man calling himself Gavin, telling him that we did not order another set. He lied, saying we had ordered two sets initially and we needed to pay for both. I asked him to prove that we ordered two but he could not."

In the end, the pastor, not wishing to do anything which may reflect badly on his church's good reputation, gave in and paid for the second set.

But when a third set arrived, he dug his heels in.
"A man calling himself Craig phoned me from SA Image Solutions, telling me that we had originally ordered three sets and due to delays they could not send all of them at once, so they had staggered our order.

"I told him that I had never ordered three sets."
The pastor then received a fax from the company, assuring him that if he paid for the third set, they would stop sending the cartridges to him.

But he has no intention of giving in a second time.
The Hellopeter consumer complaints website has several complaints about the same company, most of the complainants alleging that they were repeatedly sent printer cartridges which they hadn't agreed to buy.

One wrote: "I agreed to buy two 'top quality' cartridges at a 25% discounted rate and I received a Woolworths voucher as a thank you.

"I received two cartridges, and then another three, and when I called to advise the company that I hadn't placed such an order, I was told that it was the remainder of my initial order, and that they could only supply a minimum of five."

Several complainants claim they were verbally abused, harassed and threatened with legal action and blacklisting if they refused to pay.

Of course, in the absence of any written proof that the consumers were failing to pay for goods which they had legitimately ordered, those threats, if they were indeed issued, were empty.

Contacted for comment, SA Image Solutions owner Krishna Naicker said because the company provided small businesses with the fantastic offer of a 25% discount on the cartridges, the deal only applied to a minimum order of three sets of cartridges.

"But because we cold call people all over the country, getting their names and numbers from phone directories, and we don't do credit checks, we can't send all three sets in one go.

"Instead we wait to see if they pay for the first set and then we send the second, and third," he said.
"We can't just supply all three sets at once because they might just run away and not pay."
The sales staff were instructed to tell prospective customers that the price was conditional upon a minimum order of three sets of cartridges, Naicker said.
"But sometimes the sales clerks are wrong," he conceded. As for the  threatening "pay up" calls his employees are alleged to make, Naicker said his company was "aggressive" in compelling clients to pay, because "thousands" accepted the cartridges but refused to pay for them.

The call centre conversations are currently not taped, so there's no proof of who said what, sadly.
Moral of the story: It's always risky to buy products, unseen, over the phone from people or companies you have not done business with before.

And anytime a company or individual claims you owe them money, insist that they prove it â by means of a signed document or phone conversation recording â showing you agreed to buy the product or service, at that price.


==== Snip

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## garthu

Cannot wait for the reply... :Fence:  :Gun Bandana:  :Shoot:  :2guns: 

Nice one Tim P... :Clap:

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## insulin

I find it interesting how passive people are in taking legal action.  :Confused:  This is entrapment, Fraud and blackmail if I am not mistaken. I think a lawyer could have remedied the situation in no time. Also I would love to know how they knew what printers where used in the office? 

See the point I am trying to make is someone had to give some indication of what model and make printers where used to start with?

But again I do not have all the information so I would not know.   :Cool:

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## Tim P

> I find it interesting how passive people are in taking legal action.  This is entrapment, Fraud and blackmail if I am not mistaken. I think a lawyer could have remedied the situation in no time. Also I would love to know how they knew what printers where used in the office? 
> 
> See the point I am trying to make is someone had to give some indication of what model and make printers where used to start with?
> 
> But again I do not have all the information so I would not know.


Hi Insulin,

The ink company finds a number in phonebook, makes a cold call explaining how one can SAVE money on printer ink. Then they go on to explain their ink is a different formulation, and lasts longer, a bit like DURACELL BATTERY advert.

The ink company asks what printers are used, and then offers a SAMPLE INK PACK, which sounds as if it is being sent as a "no charge" sample.

The ink SAMPLE is sent WITHOUT invoice, just a packing slip. The invoice arrives quite a while later. In my case the price was around R1200.00 , which I thought "Wow, I wasn't expecting a R1200.00 charge as this was a SAMPLE INK PACK."

The ink had already been opened by us, and we found the containers of the ink to be the same size as the agent's original ink. If the ink reservoir s are the same size, then how can HALTRANS ink last longer?

At this time I realised that I had been scammed, and decided to just leave it be as the scam amount was not worth following up and raising one's blood pressure.

THEN WITH NO COMMUNICATION FROM US, Haltrex sent a further package containing inks, 2 black cartriges and 2 colour cartriges with an invoiced price of close on R3500.00

My reaction. "Are these guys mad? R3500 for ink! I didn't order these inks, wasn't expecting them or needing them."  I then sent the Haltrex company a fax saying that the shipment was not needed and that they needed to collect then and credit our account.

This fax, and further faxes were ignored for three months, when I received threating call from sales person and then later a so called manager, who sounded like he was of Indian descent, spoke to me like no one in business should ever be allowed to speak to a "client."  He was making out that, I was totally in the wrong and that I had no way out of the contract.

I told this disgustingly rude man his fortune, including quoting from the TV show FATHER TED, when I told him to "Feck Off".  I will not tolerate racist remarks, or will not buckle under strong arm tactics.

The following day the same so called "manager" phoned me back and condescendingly told me to send the ink back, and that a Woolworths voucher in the ink pack would cover the cost of the postage.  There was no Woolworths voucher, and so I posted the parcel back by speed-services.

If people don't fight back and demand their rights, and stick to their guns, they are likely to be forced into situations that they are not happy with.

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## Dave A

Well done Tim for standing your ground  :Thumbup:

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## insulin

I also used to work for numerous computer companies in the past. Part of my function was to introduce services and get people interested in the product. I was really good at this and made a small fortune for the company I was working for. 

Now this being stated I want to say that I never abused anyone into buying the products or services. However my experiences taught me the following: 

(a)	Never agree to anything and always ask for a sales representative.
(b)	Always ask for turns and condition before any negotiations or meetings of any kind.

(c)	When accepting a gift make sure that the terms and conditions of the gift is in writing and signed. âDemand it to be faxed to you.â Write the date and time with a blue pen on the back of the document. 

(d)	If you receive goods that was never ordered. Send it back and quarry the order by the company. Or better yet donât take delivery and refuse to sign the delivery note and demand the goods to be taken back. 

(e)	If the company claimed you ordered stuff check out your phone records and see if any calls were made to the company in question. âIt also gives you helpful information. And will help prove that you never ordered the stuff also you have dates and times to add to your argument. âNever reveal the date and time because they will pick up on it and claim that was the order date! Just say you have no records thus the order does not exist!â

(f)	If possible record your phone conversations and always state âFor the recordâ before you continue your conversations and questions.

(g)	Never ever get angry âbite your lips if you have too!â You might say things that that person can use against you. âEspecially true when the person is trying to provoke you... Question his or her motive!â 

I am sure you can add more points but these are my rules and these rules keep me out of trouble.  :Big Grin:

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## Dave A

This one got me curious:



> (c)	When accepting a gift make sure that the terms and conditions of the gift is in writing and signed. âDemand it to be faxed to you.â Write the date and time with a blue pen on the back of the document.


Why a *blue* pen?

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## insulin

The blue pen is for the following reason: If someone made a copy of the document in question. The writing will show as black and more importantly if a colour photocopy was made then the signature âTime and dateâ will be thousands of little dots and not fluent pen ink. You do this to authenticate the document for your own personal reasons. Also if someone wants to slip in a deferent version of the document then this will make it more difficult for them to do because they will need to counterfeit the writing at the back of the document.   It is good practise...

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Dave A (11-May-09)

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## Martinco

Very interesting and makes sense !

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## garthu

Something that seems to be standing out is that they don't seem  (highlighted as i don't want someone taking my word and ending in cuck) prepared to go the full mile in enforcing the contract. Probably knowing that they cant or would really struggle to enforce. Maybe they also know then that there 'online" agreement is worthless and just a bully tactic...

Nice one Tim!  :Applaud:

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## daveob

> The following day the same so called "manager" phoned me back and condescendingly told me to send the ink back, and that a Woolworths voucher in the ink pack would cover the cost of the postage.  There was no Woolworths voucher, and so I posted the parcel back by speed-services.


hmmm .. could this *opening of the package*, to look for the voucher, not be seen as a case of "you opened the package and we therefore can not accept returned good that were opened as we have no way to ascertain if they were used and you must pay for them" ??

just a thought.

personally, I would have told them to send their courier to collect the stuff.

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## insulin

I remember a time when I got a box of modems âserialâ and I wanted USB modems as specified on my order to the supplier. When I took delivery I normally open the big box when it gets there before I sign for anything. However these modems come in their own packaging and when I spotted the mistake I just said âtake it backâ after resealing the box again. The point I am trying to make is I didnât open the packaging of the modems. But again because this is a scam they will try and force you to take it any way they can. 

My advice is âjust donât take delivery and send the crap backâ   :Smile:

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## Tim P

We supply musical instruments to music shops throughout South Africa, and our operation is based on mutual trust and sound / fair business practice, since 1980 when we started trading. we receive many parcels from locally and abroad and open the parcels in good faith. 

It is not NORMAL to receive parcels from fraudulent sources, and as such it is not NORMAL for us / our business to treat parcels a originating from a dodgy source.

I am not going to let such scams change who I am and what I stand for, however when these people try their luck with me, they must expect my full wrath and my complete commitment to enforcing my rights as a consumer.

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## mdgreyling

Hi!!

Unfortunately I have also just been a victim of this scam. Their way of marketing is to mislead the public. Once the goods are delivered to your house, you are held responsible for the invoice. Not contract was signed and no order was placed!!!!!

What is my rights and did you guys pay them their money?

----------


## DS2009

Same situation here. 

A while ago one of their couriers came to our office and wanted to deliver a 25Lt container of soap... I told the courier guy to basically piss off we did not order anything, I took them invoice from Haltrex and phoned them telling them I never ordered anything from them!

The lady I spoke to then tried to sell me some ink cartridges and or stationary products.  Again I basically told her to piss off (don't worry it was put nicely  :Big Grin:  )

But... for the past 2 months we have received an invoice from the in the mail for R5000+ for the soap.  I phoned them again and told them we did not take delivery of their stuff and I want to speak with a manager.  After a while I was put through to the manager and he told me he would get back to me.

Its been almost 3 weeks now and they have not tried to contact me again.  I even gave him my cell phone number.

----------


## Tim P

> Hi!!
> 
> Unfortunately I have also just been a victim of this scam. Their way of marketing is to mislead the public. Once the goods are delivered to your house, you are held responsible for the invoice. Not contract was signed and no order was placed!!!!!
> 
> What is my rights and did you guys pay them their money?


Hi,

You have rights. If you did not request goods from a supplier then they don't have a leg to stand on. Refuse to pay them.

As a youngster, traveling around Europe and the Far East, I was warned that it was a common trick of whores / prostitutes in bars to sit next to someone, and then somehow the unsuspecting bar patron would be told that he is responsible for a HUGE amount of money for what his "friend" bought. The strong bouncers would then intimidate the customer until he paid up the extortion money.


It would be fun, if someone on this forum had access to a 10 tonne truck and delivered sand to these guys. Dropping it at their front door.

----------


## DS2009

> Hi,
> 
> You have rights. If you did not request goods from a supplier then they don't have a leg to stand on. Refuse to pay them.
> 
> As a youngster, traveling around Europe and the Far East, I was warned that it was a common trick of whores / prostitutes in bars to sit next to someone, and then somehow the unsuspecting bar patron would be told that he is responsible for a HUGE amount of money for what his "friend" bought. The strong bouncers would then intimidate the customer until he paid up the extortion money.
> 
> *
> It would be fun, if someone on this forum had access to a 10 tonne truck and delivered sand to these guys. Dropping it at their front door.*


 :Big Grin: 

Actually I am in the mood to report this story to Carte Blanche get them to do a story on these guys and maybe warn other people before they fall for this scam.

Looking at hellopeter.com, there are a lot of complaints about this particular company and each of those complaints were caught by this scam.   :Embarrassment:

----------


## suzyq

These a-holes have gotten to me. i'm very sick of this crap.  :Mad:  it's true, a Mark tunes his rubbish story, and now it's a Daton. they've sent me 14 cartridges. i only wanted 2. and on top it's more expensive then at a regular shop. i work in my family business. so it's even affected my relationship with my family. they will not take no for an answer. 
we must make a stand against them.  
please someone stop them pigs. 
i'm only 22, i can't take this anymore. someone help. i even called telkom, if they could block them from calling the business number. telkom doesn't block numbers. 
what i find amazing they keep finding excuses.  :Mad: 
lord help us all from these possesed devils.

----------


## Dave A

Suzy - you're just being way too nice. Say *no* like you mean it. 
Practice it in the mirror. 
Imagine they are the worst wart infested toad you've ever seen and they've just made an indecent proposal.
Call *them* up and say *no more!*

And once you've done it a few times and you think you absolutely mean it, then you can call them again and tell them who it is they are not to bug anymore  :Big Grin: 

Last thing - do it *now!*
I know it's Friday, but if you wait to Monday you'll talk yourself out of it.
Stop messing around. Stand up and get started right now! Where's the nearest mirror?

You cannot imagine how good you'll feel once it's all over and they are out of your life.

----------


## Tim P

Hi guys. Wendy Knowler is the Newspaper's equivalent of "Isobel Jones" the TV consumer watchdog. She already has these guys in her sights, more emails from other people who have had bad dealings with the guys you are talking about, will give her more ammunition. Find Wendy's email address by Google search.

----------


## Tim P

> Hi guys. Wendy Knowler is the Newspaper's equivalent of "Isobel Jones" the TV consumer watchdog. She already has these guys in her sights, more emails from other people who have had bad dealings with the guys you are talking about, will give her more ammunition. Find Wendy's email address by Google search.



consumerwatch@ecr.co.za  :Applaud:  :Applaud:  :Clap:  :Clap:

----------


## Dave A

By the sounds of things, the more people that can be warned about this the better.

----------


## thola

Hi 
I am having the same problem with them, the last time the manager phoned me and they said I will be receiveing a letter confirming that I have received the last batch and done the last payment.  What do I receive today another invoice saying I owe them R19 000.00 for the toners my storeroom is filling up with their toners that we do not use on our machines because it is damaging them.  I phoned them today and they told me they are going to look into it and come back to me on monday I am eargerly waiting to hear their response and I bet you they are going to tell me I am supposed to get the last batch that it what the contract say and as you say there is no contract if you ask them for one you never get it.  ohh those loud debt consultants who shout wanting the money.  I will have to tell you the feedback on monday

----------


## thola

Please tell me how did you get out of this,

----------


## thola

u can say that again

----------


## thola

NOt that I know of but the problem is u are so scared that your company will be blacklisted because of your fault and you just work the finance people to pay for it, if I get this order seriously I am going to die

----------


## Dave A

Interesting thought, Thola. I wonder how many staff in larger organisations just try to bury the problem out of fear that they might be held responsible for the problem.

I find it hard to understand why management might hold the staff responsible if it's the supplier that's not acting as represented, but I suppose that fear is sitting there.

----------


## Tim P

> Interesting thought, Thola. I wonder how many staff in larger organisations just try to bury the problem out of fear that they might be held responsible for the problem.
> 
> I find it hard to understand why management might hold the staff responsible if it's the supplier that's not acting as represented, but I suppose that fear is sitting there.


Why did / do Haltrex supposedly include a "GIFT VOUCHER" from WOOLIES inside their ink package?  As the owner of a business, I did not take kindly to a voucher being enclosed with the ink. It is not good business practice in my opinion, and could encourage staff from companies to sort of accept bribes for buying expensive inks.

----------

Dave A (15-Aug-09)

----------


## Dave A

So it escalates to "bribery" and a form of blackmail? Devious indeed!

What is the value of the voucher?

----------


## Tim P

> So it escalates to "bribery" and a form of blackmail? Devious indeed!
> 
> What is the value of the voucher?


They claimed to have included a R50.00 Woolies Voucher with the inks. I didn't open the parcel of ink which was said to have included the voucher. I returned the package to Haltrex by Speed Services Post Office track and trace.

I wonder if these guys have ever tried to sell inks to a law firm?

Someone is going to take these guys down, I'm amazed that it hasn't happened yet.

----------


## Dave A

Some good news - I got this message by email from gwenbarger (who made post 9 in this thread):



> Hi,
> 
> I have had the same problem with Haltrex, but I can assure you, that if you keep on saying the same thing over and over, they do get the message. When my second lot of cartridges arrived, I tried to phone them to ask them why I received another lot of cartridges, they would not accept my calls, and everyone was suddenly busy, so I waited untill they called me. When they called and asked me when I am going to pay my bill, I told them that I was not going to pay it, and they are welcome to collect their goods, as I have not opened them. This happened several times, and eventually, a driver arrived to collect the goods, and I am rid of them, or so I thought. Got a call from them the other day to tell me that they want to deliver my balance of goods, and I said to them that if they deliver it, they will just have to come and collect them again. Be persistant, just like they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So it's a case of sticking to your guns and you'll get there.

----------


## Vanessa Stevenson

I have to concur with the last post regarding being as persistent as they are - we have consistently refused to get into any discussion with them. As soon as they phone and identify themselves (usually by saying that the last time we spoke I PROMISED to make a payment to them that day!!!!) Blood pressure 0 - sky high immediately!! I have not heard from them for about 8 months now however this has been a consistent tack of ours for about 18 months... They also tried to talk to different people in the organisation to create confusion so we had a meeting amongst any personel who may answer the phone, and all followed the same script - they have started to give up. Be aware they will call periodically hoping to deal with someone who was not aware of the whole story. I have no doubt that we will receive a probing call again which will be met with my stock answer - do not call us, do not try to speak to us, we do not owe you any money -I then put the phone down.

----------


## lindamareb

I have the same problem with these people. I could not understand what they were trying to explain to me about why I keep receiving cartridges and HAVE to pay for them even though I have cancelled my account with them.. They say there is no such thing and I must receive a reference number to cancel. Of course I was not given one. They NEVER return my calls. They are ALWAYS busy on the lines when I call. They threaten and shout and are rude when I do get hold of them. 
What can I do????
Please help.
Linda Blokland

----------


## lindamareb

We should go to Carte Blanche. Launch a newspaper attack.

----------


## F&FT Services

Haltrex Systems are in the process of trying to scam me, I paid the initial +_R800 for the 2 cartridges I needed and now they just keep sending. They are now trying to make me pay for another 4 which they just sent . There's no way I'm paying for this. Should I just send them back?

----------


## Dave A

> Should I just send them back?


Yep - and batter their ears for sending it without proper authorisation in the first place. It really looks like the sooner you start telling them off, the better.

Maybe we should run a contest: 
How many calls did it take for you to get rid of Haltrex?

Person with least number of calls wins  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------


## daveob

Maybe we should all call them and ask for free samples.

Then when the 'follow up' stock arrives, simply ignore them completely, or tell them to send their courier to collect - our "company policy" is that we do not return un-ordered delivered items at our cost or time.

oh, and don't fall for the "use the woolies voucher in the packet for the delivery costs" scam - from what we've seen here, it's never there.

If you receive stock from them, never, never, NEVER, pay for it unless they can show you a copy of your signed order with your company name on it, and authorised signature, with YOUR terms and conditions of order.

If (when) they call, it's so easy to simply just say "NO" - try it ( practice now ), then put the phone down on them - don't start a discussion, don't argue, don't lose your cool, don't do anything. Just say "NO" and hang up. That's it. you'll feel better than after their bulldozer has run over you.

If they do eventually send any legal eagles after you, ask for a copy of your company order with your signature on.

----------


## tec0

Right now I am reading all of this and what I cannot understand is why nobody just take them to court force them to show the evidence at hand and if they cannot provide, slam them with fraud charges and just have them locked up! Yes it will cost you money and yes it will be expensive but the satisfaction of knowing that they are in jail rotting away will be worth it in the end. So why not just do that and get it over with.   :Confused:

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## Tim P

> Right now I am reading all of this and what I cannot understand is why nobody just take them to court force them to show the evidence at hand and if they cannot provide, slam them with fraud charges and just have them locked up! Yes it will cost you money and yes it will be expensive but the satisfaction of knowing that they are in jail rotting away will be worth it in the end. So why not just do that and get it over with.


It's cheaper to deliver 10 tonnes of sand and have it tipped out on their front steps / front door.

----------

Dave A (05-Sep-09)

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## Tim P

> We should go to Carte Blanche. Launch a newspaper attack.


AMEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS

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## Tim P

> So it escalates to "bribery" and a form of blackmail? Devious indeed!
> 
> What is the value of the voucher?


The voucher allegedly was for R50.00 ---  I returned the Haltrex box with all of the paperwork unopened by Speed Services Postoffice counter to counter delivery with barcoded track and trace.

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## lindamareb

> AMEN BROTHERS AND SISTERS


I am inviting people to join me to launch an investigation into haltrex actvities to close them down. If I receive positive responses I can contact you to discuss further.

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## tec0

Then pull out all the stops and enlist professional help to investigate the fraud. But if you take this type of action you need to have your ducks in a row. Accumulate evidence by recording phone-calls and just donât accept anything they say or give! Also you can enlist the consumer council and get the newspapers involved. You can demand that the consumer council take them to court. If they are a no show then the court will take action against them. Trust me you do not want to mess with the court system they are relentless!

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lindamareb (07-Sep-09)

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## Menique

> Has anyone encountered the issues with Haltrex Systems.
> 
> They seem to send out cartridges "sell" over the phone - so you don't have a contract with them just try their products for 30 days.
> 
> Then send you the invoice for those products they sent you to your post and say that the invoices it is a binding contract to continue buying if you pay them for the first cartridges.
> 
> *The problem is that you did not have a contract with them because they sold you over the phone and never told you of this so called contract.* 
> 
> So if you pay them, you have a contract if you don't they sue you for not paying. So, as a consumer you are screwed anyway once they send you the ink.
> ...


I'm sitting with just the same problem at present!! The guy, Dereck whom first called me to introduce the product to me, said that I could get the cartridges, only one of each colour (total of 4).  I received them, paid for it and have not even used them.  

Now another invoice with cartridges arrived - another 8!!! For goodness sake - that after I originaly was told that I would only receive 4.  Now the same as the above problem is happening.  You cant send them back, was offered to send half of the new order back - but what do I want to do with R1,600.00 worth of another cartridge order.  Dont even print as much, yet used the first lot we got. 

Please explain to me how these people get away with this.  No contract what so ever was signed, nor was I origanally told that the cartridges would just be sent on a regular basis, and one must keep on paying!!!! 

How do you get out of this????

----------


## daveob

You just don't seem to be getting this ....

did you sign an order for these items ? -- no

did you sign a contract to receive and pay for these items ? -- no

so where's the problem ?  they are trying to scam you and you're just letting them.

if they phone you, just say 'no' and put the phone down.

if they try to deliver, refuse to accept the delivery.

if someone else signs for the delivery, just put the stuff in a cupboard until they phone. then tell them they can send their courier, at their cost, to collect their goods that you didn't order, from your premises. Any other questions you simply reply with a 'no' and hang up.

and NO, their invoice can NOT constitute a binding contract unless you have signed the contract.

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## Dave A

I still loved this one the best:



> It's cheaper to deliver 10 tonnes of sand and have it tipped out on their front steps / front door.


Free sample. If you don't like it, just send it back (on the same terms they use, of course  :Big Grin: )

As an added twist, tell them there is a mystery gift voucher in there somewhere.

We can but dream...

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Morticia (23-Sep-09)

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## potter

Haltrex Systems has changed their name and are now trading as 'newtech' -web address: newtechint.co.za. Managed still by Tony ....(?).

I can but ditto all the previous complaints and am rather embarrassed to admit to also being scammed by them. Difficult to get one's head turned to start thinking like a thief, but I suppose that's what's needed to prevent this type of thing happening to one.

----------

Dave A (07-Oct-09), lindamareb (08-Oct-09)

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## lindamareb

Thanks! I discovered the name change - I suspect that that is all it is as it may have been getting hot for them. I am taking them to small claims court as they "sold" me a cartridge at three times the market price and it immediately disintegrated inside the printer and damaged my machine. STAY AWAY from these guys!!

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## Tim P

Hi GUYS - GET HOLD OF CONSUMER WATCH - I can't lay a complaint against Haltrex as I have already been involved in an argument with them and they conceded and apparently removed me from their database and no longer want me as their customer.  As far as I am concerned, I was never their customer!!

They sent me a sample ink which was THEM initiating contact with ME, at no time did I agree to become their customer.

FORUMITES - GET HOLD OF WENDY KNOWLER of consumer watch  :Banghead:  - she is very very effective, but in order for her really be aware of what has been going on, she needs to receive emails from you guys with FACTS. ]

Once she has facts and ammunition, we can then ask her to pursue the matter.

"Wendy Knowler" <consumer@knowler.co.za>,  :Bananadance: 

Disclaimer - I am not an agent of Ms Knowler, and am not connected to her or her associates in any way.

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## Dave A

> GET HOLD OF WENDY KNOWLER of consumer watch


I think this has come up before. Has she published a story on this yet?

Another thought - Maybe someone should just send her a link to this thread  :Whistling: 

(I would, but some might say I've got a vested interest  :Stick Out Tongue:  )

----------


## Tim P

> I think this has come up before. Has she published a story on this yet?
> 
> Another thought - Maybe someone should just send her a link to this thread 
> 
> (I would, but some might say I've got a vested interest  )


Hello Dave, I have spoken to Wendy about this in a face to face situation and also sent her links. 

Newspapers have to be very careful what they print, they need formal complaints, they need facts. I can't formally complain at this stage, because I fought back directly at HALTREX, who then backed down and resolved the issue I had with them.

So from a business level I have been "sorted out", however at a personal level I am still pissed at them and won't tolerate the verbal abuse and insults levied at me by anyone without reacting.

So putting this in a nutshell Ms Knowler has to obey certain legal protocol, which probably does'nt involve ferreting around website forums, because when a story goes to print it has to be substantiated.

For those of you who have been ripped off or defrauded, give Ms Knowler the facts and I am pretty sure she will follow up with action from her side.

It would be useful if forumites would email her within a short period of time, it's no use one email going off today and another in a month's time. Be proactive and email her en mass next week.

Regards

Tim

----------


## lindamareb

Thank you Tim. I have made contact with her and she said that she has some data on these people but that she needs more. She welcomed my contribution so I back your encouragement to others to send info. They are extremely sneaky and devious. They have wind that I am taking steps or may take steps. I placed a complaint on Hello Peter which they saw. They now pay lip service to "sorting out my problem". They have actually done nothing as yet to sort it out. Linda

----------


## tec0

> Hello Dave, I have spoken to Wendy about this in a face to face situation and also sent her links.
> 
> Newspapers have to be very careful what they print, they need formal complaints, they need facts. I can't formally complain at this stage, because I fought back directly at HALTREX, who then backed down and resolved the issue I had with them.


Formal investigations, auditing and even criminal investigations can be done if there is probable cause. âProbable Cause -> (law) evidence sufficient to warrant an arrest or search and seizureâ. 

I am sure that any âGood business ownerâ keeps track of his or her paperwork. Some even ârecordâ there phone conversations and notify the person that phoned that âall calls are recorded for security purposesâ Now if there is enough complaints and enough evidence that suggest âillegalâ activities a criminal charge must follow with the ârightâ proceedings. 

Once something becomes a âcriminal investigationâ the law takes over ânormally they will use your âevidence if gathered correctlyâ and testimony. 

Now the name change âsuggestâ that they might be getting smarter or they want to start on a clean page âwhatever the case may beâ it is always *GOOD* practice to keep records no matter how big or how small your company or business is.  :Wink:

----------


## Tim P

> Thank you Tim. I have made contact with her and she said that she has some data on these people but that she needs more. She welcomed my contribution so I back your encouragement to others to send info. They are extremely sneaky and devious. They have wind that I am taking steps or may take steps. I placed a complaint on Hello Peter which they saw. They now pay lip service to "sorting out my problem". They have actually done nothing as yet to sort it out. Linda


Hello Linda, 

Thanks for your feedback regarding my post. I really do encourage everyone on the forum to send email to Wendy Knowler as soon as possible. She will dates if possible, invoice numbers, actual amounts charged.

All of us are pretty emotional about this issue. If a newspaper is going to persue an issue such as this, they can't go to press with imotional issues which might be slightly inaccurate. Inaccuracies will lead the neswpaper and possibly it's staff straight to litigation and legal costs.

If Haltrex is really scamming people on any large scale, they will have their ducks in a row. Their sales agents will most likely have been told what they have to say in order for Haltrex to not be misquoted. The other thing is that based on my discussions with Haltrex, I have a very strong suspicion that all phonecalls are recorded and archieved and time stamped.  During a heated argumet with Haltrex thier management seemingly said something to me in the heat of the moment, that basically made them retract their claims against me.

If I was a director of a similar company, I would contract to a very good legal firm. In-fact if you want a good lawyer to fight your case, find out who the Haltrex lawyers might be.  :Cool: 

For legal reason, and there will be legal reasons, I must emphasize that at no time has Ms Wendy Knowler asked me to incite people to gather information to be used against Haltrex. Any posting I have made to this forum has been done in protest against the shocking treatment received by the people from Haltrex and the verbal abuse endured from their agents.

COME ON PEOPLE !!!!!!!   AS CONSUMERS WE HAVE POWERFUL RIGHTS - BUT WE HAVE TO CLAIM THEM.............

Make the effort and become proactive.
Tim

----------


## HRan

> Has anyone encountered the issues with Haltrex Systems.
> 
> They seem to send out cartridges "sell" over the phone - so you don't have a contract with them just try their products for 30 days.
> 
> Then send you the invoice for those products they sent you to your post and say that the invoices it is a binding contract to continue buying if you pay them for the first cartridges.
> 
> *The problem is that you did not have a contract with them because they sold you over the phone and never told you of this so called contract.* 
> 
> So if you pay them, you have a contract if you don't they sue you for not paying. So, as a consumer you are screwed anyway once they send you the ink.
> ...


Hi Karen
I have had the misfortune of being coerced into buying the first set of cartridges from them. I returned the second set, but received threats over the phone. Now, 2 years later I get another batch of cartridges. Its unnecessary costs having to post them back. If you check out the hellopeter website there are numerous people who have been similarly conned. They seem to still be around. I would really be glad if something could be done so that they do not bother me (or others once and for all) From what I understand they also sell detergents in large quantities. They have now been taken over by New Tech International Products. I am not sure whether their modus operandi will be the same!!!
HRan

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## KarinR

Hi Guys 
Firstly i would like to make everyone aware that they had a name change: Haltrex Systems is now called NEW TECH INTERNATIONAL.

I read some of your replies on this story about Haltrex Systems... I was one of the unlucky once to also fall for their scam! I bought the first set and now a couple months later they sended me another 8 when my driver took it back to them cause i didnt want them they started to fight with him threatening and told him to leave their premises. ....Eventually i got the guy there to take back 4 of them ....i'm still stuck with the other 4 and guess what you can't use them as all the powder leaked out. I have been phoning them non stop to replace them but the replacements are yet to come....

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## tec0

:No: 

Really people it is called a âlawyerâ and lawyers know the law...  :Confused:  Get real and go to one pay the money and be helped! 

I know it is costly to get a lawyer involved but sometimes it get the job done. If it was me I would have taken then to court a long time ago. Also talk to your lawyer bout damages and total costs. Or you can play the game and get intimidated all the time...  :Rant1:   the choice is yours.  :Yes:

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## lindamareb

Hi 
I took the matter to the Dept Trade & Industry - they could not help me at the time but were waiting for a consumer law to change - try them. Wendy Knowles of Consumer Council helped. She published details in the Pta News and Star and next thing Hatrex paid me back for a damaged cartridge and for the repairs needed to my printer.  

She spoke to the "owner" in Australia who said he was "surprised" that his staff were acting as they did??!! Contact Wendy - she is really helpful.
L

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## Dave A

> Really people it is called a “lawyer” and lawyers know the law...  Get real and go to one pay the money and be helped!


When last did you use a lawyer in a matter of litigation?

There is a rather significant problem of return on investment here, Tec0. Are you seriously suggesting running up a lawyer's bill that is sure to be hugely disproportionate to the sums of money involved (at the individual case level)?

It's easy to shout "sue the bastards" when you're not the one cutting the cheque.

The best option is to tell them to get stuffed in no uncertain terms - they face exactly the same ROI problem if they wish to pursue the matter further as any of these complainants do. And clearly they've done the maths. I asked a while ago if anyone had been pressed harder than abusive phonecalls for collection and no-one has indicated that they have.

Just another 12 months or so to go and the Consumer Protection Act should put an end to their hijinks. In the meantime warn as many people as you can. The change in trading name is a good sign that bad publicity is taking its toll.

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## lindamareb

I must agree with Dave A. not a simple matter to take this to court - huge costs and they have their story sorted. Even the official channels cannot do much to "get them".  Those of us who have had dealings know how unethical their practices are.
L

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## tec0

*Well I use a lawyer but not like most people.* See I pay a lawyer to point out the laws and what can help me. Then I pay the lawyer his money and leave his office AND then and only then do I go to the consumer council or âthe custodian in questionâ and hand that person my case that I now know is airtight and there will be little to no surprises. More importantly I act with confidence and facts and that is worth R580 I spend at my lawyer. 

This works for me and I like doing it because it has saved me up to R8000 and more in the past for business orientated problems... I never had to hand over a case to a lawyer and I also avoid doing this because of cost!  Yes when a lawyer gives you advice you have to pay, but it is good sound advice...   :Yes:

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## Garyvdh

Not sure if it is the same company, but there is a company out there called C and N imaging systems now.... or C & N Imaging ... however they spell it.

They use exactly the same tactics and try to make it more attractive by attaching a woolworths or pick and pay voucher to the offer. 

The way to deal with this is to refuse everything point blank from the start and end the call as soon as possible.  DO NOT GIVE THEM ANY DETAILS.

You can read more about this and other similar companies here...
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...light-Robbery-!!!!

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## mamaafrica

I have just been through the same process with this Company and refuse to have any further dealings with them. In 25 years of doing business, I have NEVER seen anything like this. So-called "paperless company not recording any calls", making false promises, "repremanding the sales person who did so", but then still insisting you keep accept box upon box of cartridges (my first one was faulty, 2nd one didn't fit etc etc) . I have paid for the only cartridge I was able to use, yet have also paid to return two unwanted boxes to them via registered mail.     One staff member who took one of my 1 complaints is not only user-unfriendly and aggressive, they also managed to have a different job description each time I noted details of the conversation!

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## tec0

Seriously? Look just get a ârent a lawyerâ and go ballistic! I am sure your ârent a lawyerâ will send them packing.  :Batman:

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## lindamareb

I wrote a letter to the local press which got published and Haltrex immediately retracted, apologised (!!) and even REFUNDED me for damage to my printer which I said their poor quality cartridges were responsible for. Amazingly I could get no real help from the DTI but they did say the law was changing which would enable them to act against such companies in future. So try them, too.

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## Garyvdh

Beware of this type of scam.

1) The sales person calls your company and asks for the person who does the ordering
2) They tell you that you completed a survey a few months back
3) Now they are going to give you a free voucher or complimentary coupon.
4) They are also going to send you one of their "printer cartridges" to "test"
5) The call is recorded and they record your agreement to accept the vouchers and the cartridges.
6) Once they deliver and you or anybody in the company signs for delivery of the cartridge you are hooked.
7) They then begin to pester you for payment, usually over R2000 for a generic cartridge.
8) Meanwhile they begin sending you more cartridges for which they will also bill you.
9) When you try to refuse or return the cartridge they threaten to blacklist you for non payment.

See these threads for more details....

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...ce-Consumabils
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...!!-Printer-ink
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...-might-be-back!
http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...light-Robbery-!!!!
http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...ead.php?t=3948

The companies concerned that we know of so far are called...

Stratus Office Consumables - http://www.hellopeter.com/search_res...search=stratus
Dower Business Systems - http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...-might-be-back!
Laser Ink Direct - http://www.hellopeter.com/search_res...ser+ink+direct
Haltrex Systems - http://www.sascams.co.za/index.php?topic=83.0
Newtek or nutec or nu-tech (no website yet)
C & N Imaging Systems (no website yet)

They all use the same tactics (might even be the same people/company) - and it is all a scam!

The new Consumer Protection Act gives you the right to refuse or return these cartridges.

http://www.getclosure.co.za/blog/201...-return-goods/

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BusFact (23-Sep-10), IanF (23-Sep-10)

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## BusFact

I get these survey calls on a weekly basis.

I never let them past point (3)

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## Garyvdh

Just got a call from a company called Maycom Trading in Cape Town.  They have exactly the same Modus Operandi.  Beware!

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## Garyvdh

Another company (possibly the same crowd of people) running a similar scam, but this time using "super concentrated" cleaning products.

I just got a phone call from their very pushy sales lady.  I thought I recognised her voice and get suspicious.
When I googled their name I started seeing the same type of complaints....

Their name is Concentrated Solutions....

http://concentratedsolutions.co.za/index.html

They claim their product is superior, and they send you a sample to test.
A few days later they send you a 25 Liter drum and an invoice, and then begin to pester you for payment.
Exactly the same modus operandi as the other scam comapnies who used to send you the shoddy laser cartridges.

These are the names of some of their other scam companies...

Stratus Office Consumables - http://www.hellopeter.com/search_res...search=stratus
Dower Business Systems - http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthre...-might-be-back!
Laser Ink Direct - http://www.hellopeter.com/search_res...ser+ink+direct
Haltrex Systems - http://www.sascams.co.za/index.php?topic=83.0
Newtek or nutec or nu-tech (no website yet)
C & N Imaging Systems (no website yet)
Maycom Trading

The names throw around are Sean, Lerato, etc.

A search on the person who registered the website gives the following info...
2i. invoiceaddress         : P.O. Box 3450, Durbanville, 7551
2j. registrantphone        : +27.860555133
2k. registrantfax          : +27.118071526
2l. registrantemail        : paul@marketpro.co.za
2n. vat                    : 4630185538
3b. cname                  : 
3c. cnamesub1              : 
3d. cnamesub2              : 
3e. creationdate           : 2011/09/08 14:24:52
4a. admin                  : Paul Jeffries
4b. admintitle             : Mr
4c. admincompany           : Concentrated Solutions
4d. adminpostaladdr        : PO Box 652005, , 2010
4e. adminphone             : +27.860555133
4f. adminfax               : +27.118071526
4g. adminemail             : paul@marketpro.co.za

Paul Jeffries is one of the same two guys (along with Barnaby Lee) who were investigated by Carte Blanche for the Laser Ink Direct Scam... See here...
http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/...=4332&ShowId=1

So, bottom line... stay away from Concentrated Solutions!

Here are the Hello Peter complaints...
http://www.hellopeter.com/concentrat...company-657834
http://www.hellopeter.com/concentrat...ket-pro-763022
http://www.hellopeter.com/concentrat...ractice-747347




> We have had the same problem as other consumers of Market Pro Traders T/A Lazer Link. We were approached by telephone by Concentrated Solutions to purchase chemicals which would clean our engine parts. We asked them to bring us a small amount to try. A few days later we received an invoice for 25lt and again a few days later received the product even though on receiving the invoice we phoned to say we did not want this product until we had tried a small quantity. This product is absolute rubbish (we suspect it is plain water with some colouring) and cannot even clean a dirty dinner plate. They refuse to accept a return and have sent a statement.
> We refused to pay. They refuse to give an address, which is not on the statement or invoice, and their FAX number does not exist.





> My workshop manager received a call from Sean in November concerning de greases and soap and the sales person said that they would deliver some of the products for a trial. My manager was then contacted by Sean who wanted to confirm the order. My manager told Sean that the order had been placed upon him. Sean chose to ignore this statement and delivered the goods anyway. The goods were delivered in December and a 60 day account was automatically given without a credit application even being filled out. On closer inspection of the invoice we found that the two 25 liter "samples" were more than double the price of our current suppliers. My manager phoned the sales person - which he had never met - and told the person that he did not want the product. The sales person, Abraham, said that delivery charges had already been paid. My manager offered to pay for the delivery charges and Abraham refused to accept the return of the products. I am now being contacted by Lerato demanding payment. I have offered to return the unopened products to them but they will not give me an address. They have forwarded me a recording of the order but never were we told the conversation was recorde





> I was contacted by Concentrated Solutions with a long story about how they are moving to new premises, and they are selling stock before they moved. I made it clear that I did not want any of their product because I still had half a 25L. I also explained that we are putting workers on short time and that I will be in trouble for purchasing their product, after I still have some left.
> Nevertheless, Sean phones a week later and says how he apologises that I never received my voucher and that it will be couriered to me. The very next day he phones again and confirms the delivery and rambles something about our conversation the previous day, where I was let to believe this conversation is still about the voucher.
> A couple of days later a 25L chemical is delivered. When I told the courier to take it back, he said he cannot, he only does deliveries.
> I have sent Concentrated Solutions a mail about my disgust and received feedback, stating there is a recording of me accepting this delivery. In the recording you can clearly hear how Sean reduced the level of his voice to make sure you cannot hear what he said about the chemical or price.
> DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY!!!!!

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## RENATE

hi i have getting calls from these people i only took once from them they idiots are killing me help to make it stop or catch these bloody dum suckers

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## Darkangelyaya

> It's cheaper to deliver 10 tonnes of sand and have it tipped out on their front steps / front door.


I have found that pigpoo in the driveway works magic.

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## Chrisjan B

Not good for the grass I assume?

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## Darkangelyaya

]


> Not good for the grass I assume?


Not good for anything really... And especially effective on the driveway infront of the main gate at big companies, at 16h00 on a Friday. You only need about six tons. Good for getting paid by a sly client too. In cash. And for poo-removal in addition to what you're owed.

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## DS2009

The soap company is also Haltrex.  

That is how they conned us a couple of years ago.  

Luckily we don't have anything to do with them any more. 




> Another company (possibly the same crowd of people) running a similar scam, but this time using "super concentrated" cleaning products.
> 
> I just got a phone call from their very pushy sales lady.  I thought I recognised her voice and get suspicious.
> When I googled their name I started seeing the same type of complaints....
> 
> Their name is Concentrated Solutions....
> 
> http://concentratedsolutions.co.za/index.html
> 
> ...

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## Dave A

> I have found that pigpoo in the driveway works magic.


Given recent developments in the Western Cape, I think a member of the ANC in the Western Cape must have read this post.

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CLIVE-TRIANGLE (12-Sep-13)

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## Chrisjan B

Darkangelyaya very quiet....

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## Dave A

> Beware of this type of scam.
> 
> 1) The sales person calls your company and asks for the person who does the ordering
> 2) They tell you that you completed a survey a few months back
> 3) Now they are going to give you a free voucher or complimentary coupon.
> 4) They are also going to send you one of their "printer cartridges" to "test"


Got a call this morning following exactly this MO, but from *Viatek*.

I expect yet another rebranding of the same operation.

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## Garyvdh

Dave, yes I also got a call from them in the last two weeks.

Same name... Viatek.

But this was a new salesperson.

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## Garyvdh

Just got another call from Viatek a few minutes ago.
Male voice, slight accent.
Very pushy.
I old him we only use original Samsung Cartridges, he sneered and said his are superior.

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## Garyvdh

Exact same Modus Operandi....

1) Cold Calling
2) You participated in a Survey a year ago
3) We would like to give you a gift/voucher/reward/Free Cartridge.
4) All our Toner cartridges last longer and are superior.

I told the woman that I only buy genuine cartridges from Samsung, and she said "yes, they do supply those."
That is a flat out lie though as this guy's experience will show you....
http://www.iol.co.za/the-star/the-ri...tPageLayout.ot




> *The right move after a wrong cartridge*
> September 12 2011 at 09:00am
> By Wendy Knowler
> 
> I recently reported on the case of Sakkie van Rensburg of Cape Town, who ordered and paid for a R1 600 printer cartridge from direct marketer *CBS Print Consumables* of Benmore, Johannesburg – but he was sent the wrong cartridge. He send it back at his expense, and was sent another one, also incompatible with his machine. So he sent that one back, too. He contacted me when the CBS Print Consumables refused to refund him.
> 
> The Consumer Protection Act gives buyers the right to return goods which don’t match the order, regardless of whether it was a direct marketing deal or not, and the right to cancel any direct marketing deal, even if there is nothing wrong with the goods or the deal, within five business days of the receipt of the goods.
> 
> Company director Krish Naicker said a batch of incorrectly labelled cartridges was to blame.
> ...


This is what their cartridges actually look like...




And this is the Hello Peter complaint page for this company.... (22 Negative in the last year)
http://hellopeter.com/cbs-print-cons...and-complaints

This is their details....
http://www.southafrica-companies.com...sumables-7d2o/
http://zabusiness.com/cbs-print-cons...y-profile.html

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## markus@media2.co.za

Same situation here, started last year September; I told them from the start that my business does hardly any of our own printing, but because the sales lady sounded sweet, I'll buy from them once (the price quoted was pretty cheap anyway). Two months later the next phone call came, claiming that she had messed up with my first order, but not to worry they're going to rectify it; I told them that I didn't care about the mix up and to just leave it as it is, she refused and it turned into a 25 minute debate. Several times I requested that I just want to cancel any orders that I had apparently ordered, but every time she said there would be a huge cancellation fee, every time I asked her how much, she refused to give an answer. Eventually I again let her twist my arm, and asked how much the cartridges will be, she said, and this is a direct quote "I don't know, probably about 3 of 4 hundred". When it arrived, about 3 weeks later, the invoice was for almost R2000; I tried calling them immediately, but got a phone message that they'll be closed until 19 January (about a month and a half, and of course my return date would expire in that time), 19 January I called them again, but they were still closed, 20 January, same...eventually I reached someone (Victor), explaining the situation to him, eventually he agreed that I could exchange it for cheaper cartridges of R800 (still double what I was quoted), this I paid. A few months later, another phone call, claiming that my 3rd order was on its way, this time I lost it completely, and it turned into a fun game of them sending it, me returning it, them sending it again etc. eventually I was contacted by Victor again, and was informed that he is shocked at my poor business ethics, this turned into a 40 minute debate, I hang up the phone, Victor calls back, I hang up the phone, Victor calls back. Eventually I let Victor twist my arm again, and more cartridges were sent (this time accompanied by a R300 extra courier cost, even though they just used normal snail mail). Victor had however promised to close the account after that payment is received, another payment which I made, for cartridges I can't use. Which brings us to today and Victor calling me again for my 4th order, the game was continued, of me hanging up the phone and him calling back, me hanging up the phone and him calling back. Several times I offered that they simply get a lawyer and sue me, Victor claims it's not worth anyone's time. I requested to hear the phone recordings from our last conversation, where Victor had apparently informed me of this one last order, but of course they had apparently already deleted it. I have no idea what to do anymore, any advise?

 Eventually I tried calling them, but got a recorded message saying that they'll be closed

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## Garyvdh

Whoa man! They really took you for a ride!  I hope you have reported this to as many authorities as possible!

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## Garyvdh

Just got a call from a company called Shesha Trading in Durban. They have exactly the same Modus Operandi. Beware! 
http://hellopeter.com/shesha-trading...and-complaints

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## Garyvdh

Just got a call from a company called Viatek. They have exactly the same Modus Operandi. Beware! 

http://www.viatek.co.za/products/index.htm

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## Xplosiv

Just got a call from C & N Imaging Products from phone number 011 452 0889.
After asking for the person who orders printer cartridges and being told it was me, they thanked me for taking part in a very succesful survey done in the last few months in our area and would like to send me a voucher as a token of appreciation - to what address could they send it?
I told them that I didn't take part in any such survey.
"No problem, for marketing research, can you tell me what printer do you use?"
"No, that's none of your business."
Seems they didn't really want to sell me anything because she hung up at that point.

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