# Social Category > South African Politics Forum > [Question] Malema a monster in the making

## Butch Hannan

Malema reminds me of a teenager who is completely out of control. My question here is that is our society at large  busy creating a monster who one day might rule our country. There are an awful lot of this type of individual running countries throughout Africa.

Do we really want this to happen here.
Butch Hannan

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## desA

The fellow seems to have found the open cookie jar & loves all the attention. The problem seems to be that no-one will stop the little brat, until he becomes a fully-fledged monster. Then what?

May be more like him in the wings when they see what he gets away with.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

Yip, I think he wants to create controversy and thus appeal to the more militant or angry members. I also believe that the leaders are too afraid to discipline, mainly because if he split off and started a party he would probably draw enough support to split the majority.

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## murdock

and us white people sit around hoping it doesnt happen...and when it does we gona be like a fish out of water nothing to protect our families because they would have taken all our firearms away and left us high and dry.


there are just tooo many of them...maybe they are waiting for the world cup...when they can cause absolute chaos...like they are doing with the service delivery protests...slowly slowly gearing up.

i hope you all our sakes this doesnt happen...because i have been in the locations/townships when they start rioting...not even the defence force in those days could control them...how we gona protect ourselves now?

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## desA

> ...how we gona protect ourselves now?


Pray.

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## murdock

is there anyone else on this site who has spent time in the townships doing patrols...if you have and seen what i have seen maybe you could explain in a more diplomatic manner than i would of what i have seen them do to each other and do to members of our units who got separated from us...that never got to share their experiences.

and what i saw while in angola working with 32 battalion...the recces...201 battalion...unita and fapla...maybe then you would understand why i wouldnt take a threat like this lightly.

this is not a joke.

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## AndyD

> how we gona protect ourselves now?





> Pray.


Glock.

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desA (25-Mar-10)

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## murdock

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthA...e_posting_fake

andy i take you have never been confronted by 10 000 angry protesters...the problem is not the front ones they normally got squashed and thats al i am gona say on this subject...

i agree with the praying part and the only reason i would want a glock would be to end my life and my families lives quickly.

it has taken me years to get over this type of cr&p and reading the email has sparked some things that i thought i had gotten over.

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## murdock

after wasting all the time i did in the bush when i got home i thought it was all over done my bit...made SA a safer place and all the other hog wash they conned us into believing...then being blown up in magoo bar by macbride and having to carry my girlfriend at the time and her friend out to the ambulance to be taken to hospital was a right kick in the teeth...now reading an email like this about malema just stirs unhappy emotions and taking a minute to actually think about the reality of this email actually just makes me very  angry again.

i have just got back from bible study and i can tell you god must be looking down at me right now thinking those kind of thoughts are not what being a reborn christian is all about.

maybe i should go pray for melema.

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## Dave A

Malema is certainly tapping into a very frustrated sector of society. His reasons for doing so are possibly of less importance than the failure of the ANC to respond to what is clearly escalating incitement of dangerous proportions.

Perhaps it's not so much that they're scared of him - more that they're quite relieved to have all that anger directed at something other than government just at the moment.

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## murdock

bible vers of the day on your site butch... :Big Grin: 

romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

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## desA

Julius Malema is himself not an issue. He looks like a little braggard. The proverb of "empty vessels make the most noise", is apt here.

What he does represent though - & this is more sinister - is a resurgance of hatreds towards any target which would appear to be the reason for the lack of upward progress of the masses. In previous times, it was the oppressor, colonials, upper-class - you name it - that were to blame - everything but people themselves. This time around, it will again be former oppressor, colonials, upper-class plus ruling class, everything but the people themselves.

The inability of the masses to rise up above the understading that they are owed an existance, with no correlation to their having to exert self-efforts, is the root of the problem here.

Unless the leaders can move in a direction of forward growth, where every person is gainfully employed, or working, this mentality will continue. Malema is merely tapping into this sentiment for his own selfish ends. In that sense, he is a selfish, greedy, irresponsible megalomaniac in the making.

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Debbiedle (03-May-10)

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## Butch Hannan

Hi to all,

My humble apologies for scratching open memories for some of you folks which you possibly had buried in your subconscious past. I have a son who was involved in Angola and South West and it affected him deeply. He has a pathological hate for all politicians. He labels them all as a bunch of liars who make false promises. He refused to accept his campaign medals that the defence force wanted to give to him. To quote his own words "I do not want a medal for shooting and killing people" I was involved in security work in the old Rhodesia, so I do have sympathy for you people.

In my opinion Malema although he affords us some comic relief is an extremely dangerous individual. He has an obvious appeal to many people and he has the charismatic appeal to incite them.

The ANC will do nothing about him as he is a wonderful diversion away from their own bad performance as far as delivery promises made to the masses.
Butch Hannan

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## murdock

butch it just happened that i opened this email at the same time i was reading this thread.

"naairs" i have never heard a black person use this word only afrikaaners...so it makes you wonder who wrote this.

the problem is my wife received the email before i did and read it...and it has upset her deeply...and she now wanting to get out of this country for my daughters safety...i dont have access to facebook so i dont know all the details but aparently it has caused quite a stir.

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## wynn

Seems like the 'Third Force' is lining 'Whitey' up to be included in the next xenophobic rampage, which incidently is predicted to happen just before local elections next year.

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## wynn

Another thought, maybe we should surround ourselves with Zim refugees as a buffer.
 :Big Grin:

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## murdock

you laugh when you got some time look at the layout of the old suburbs and you will notice the so called white areas are surrounded by indians and coloured areas in durban to buffer us from the balcks during the apprtheid era.

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## sgafc

As a former ANC member, detained for 2months, involved in uprisings myself can I give my humble opinion.

Malema is not a "radical" or miltant person, in the tradition of Chris Hani,Peter Mokaba, Basil February or Anton Fransch. He is an arrogant, miserable little clown.

Malema has never spent time in jail, being tortured, nor has he ever taken on the SANDF on the streets. Even our former respected finance minister, Trevor Manuel, lead protest marches, and spent more than a year in jail! 

As for the concern that he is exploiting frustrations, the masses are frustrated with HIM and the government, not whites.

The moderate leadership of the ANC that I remember, Cyril Ramaphosa, Mohammed Valli,Trevor Manuel, Terror Lekota, Popo Molefe, Raymond Sutner, the late Beyers Naude, and off course Nelson Mandela, has been supplanted by something sick. A crass materialistic class :Headbutt:

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Dave A (25-Mar-10), desA (26-Mar-10), IanF (25-Mar-10)

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## wynn

Sean, you keep us in line when we get a little nervous, thanks for that.

 :Kissing2:

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## murdock

the present goverment used violent protests and killed inocent people to achieve their goal?

now suddenly the goverment who cannot live up to their promises are saying that you dont need to use violent protests to achieve service delivery?

i must remeber that when i tell my kids not to drink while slurring and falling all over the place drunk.  :Thumbup:

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## IanF

Slightly off topic. 
I heard Godzille on 702 the other day and she talked about the DA vision of the Open Society. I found the link to it. Here is the crux.



> There are five key components of an open society:
> â¢ A constitution that enshrines the rule of law, individual rights and freedoms and
> the separation of powers
> â¢ Transparency and accountability, without which governments abuse their power
> and compromise the freedoms enshrined in the constitution.
> â¢ Security of person and property
> â¢ An independent and free-thinking civil society, including a free and independent
> media and a free and independent political opposition that is loyal to the
> constitutional order
> ...


The reason I posted this here is I think Julius is being used as a distraction to take the focus off the current shortcomings of the ANC. With this I hope the DA has moved on from being a whining party to one who does have a vision for a better SA. I like the current moves they are making with an example of limiting MEC's cars to around 500k value. 

Even more off topic I recently read Ayn Rand's Atlas shrugged. While it seemed simplistic the message the wikipedia article gives a synopsis of the book. What struck me was once politicians and their cohorts dug themselves into a hole they carried on digging instead of filling it. I feel this is where ANC is taking us. Instead of a bit of humility and doing the right things. If you read the book then what is happening in Venezuela hits you between the eyes.
So in short we should look beyond the Julius distraction and hope we don't become another African basket case.
We get the government we deserve. (I think Voltaire said something like this)

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AndyD (27-Mar-10), Butch Hannan (28-Mar-10), Dave A (27-Mar-10), desA (28-Mar-10), wynn (29-Mar-10)

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## murdock

until goverment members realises that they are "CIVIL SERVANTS" and not kings and queens who need to live in the same area where they are councillors and get paid accordingly and drive vehicles which dont make them stand out and look like they are members of the millionare clubs...maybe the masses will see that everyone is benefiting from the so called "STRUGGLE" and not just the strugglers.

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## murdock

just something else i would like to mention about being detained...i asked why certain people could walk around and got to eat better food than some of us...i was told it was because they were political prisoners we were just classed as common criminals...shame it must have been hell for them  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Dave A

:Hmmm:  Food for thought there, Ian. Particularly in light of this latest development:



> ANC Youth League leader Julius Malema has been muzzled - on the same day that another youth movement threatened to kill him.
> 
> If Malema is caught singing Dubula ibhunu (Kill the boer), he could be arrested and charged with inciting murder.
> 
> Yesterday, in a landmark ruling slated by the ANC, Acting Johannesburg High Court Judge Leon Halgryn declared the singing and publication of the song "unconstitutional and unlawful" and said any person found in violation of the court order could face charges of incitement to murder.
> 
> And, after Malema claimed Sharpeville had been hijacked by the Pan Africanist Congress on the 50th anniversary of the massacre, the PAC Youth Congress told Malema to apologise or end up "in a hospital or a mortuary".
> full story from IOL here


Unsurprsingly the ANC isn't happy with the ruling and intends to appeal. This is their view on the song:



> Earlier this month, ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe cautioned against "systematically erasing history", and said the interpretation of the song had been "vulgarised".
> 
> "It's an old struggle song. Anybody who relegates it into hate speech today ... I will regard that as a serious attempt to erase our history. If you try to erase the history through courts, that would be unfortunate to the country."
> full story from M&G here


I credit Gwede as being a fairly deep thinker, but in this it is clear he is not being objective. How does Gwede feel about the old South African flag, or Die Stem, or any other number of symbols of the other side of "the struggle"?

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## AndyD

To me the stance of the ANC on the 'Kill the Boer' issue is symptomatic of a political party that looks solely at history for its identity and uses this as justification for its own present day corruption, shortcomings and lack of achievement.

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## twinscythe12332

> To me the stance of the ANC on the 'Kill the Boer' issue is symptomatic of a political party that looks solely at history for its identity and uses this as justification for its own present day corruption, shortcomings and lack of achievement.


they have no reason to exist, other than that history. They're certainly not in the position they are now because they're adept at the work.

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## Butch Hannan

> Slightly off topic. 
> I heard Godzille on 702 the other day and she talked about the DA vision of the Open Society. I found the link to it. Here is the crux.
> 
> The reason I posted this here is I think Julius is being used as a distraction to take the focus off the current shortcomings of the ANC. With this I hope the DA has moved on from being a whining party to one who does have a vision for a better SA. I like the current moves they are making with an example of limiting MEC's cars to around 500k value. 
> 
> Even more off topic I recently read Ayn Rand's Atlas shrugged. While it seemed simplistic the message the wikipedia article gives a synopsis of the book. What struck me was once politicians and their cohorts dug themselves into a hole they carried on digging instead of filling it. I feel this is where ANC is taking us. Instead of a bit of humility and doing the right things. If you read the book then what is happening in Venezuela hits you between the eyes.
> So in short we should look beyond the Julius distraction and hope we don't become another African basket case.
> We get the government we deserve. (I think Voltaire said something like this)


Hi Ian,
What is said in the quote would be a wonderful blueprint for our South African society to try to achieve and attain. There is one little word that is sadly lacking in the make up of our public figures, our civil servants and politicians. The word is accountability. They really need to be aware of the consequences of their actions or non actions.
I have written a tongue in cheek piece called "Contract For Politicians" which you can see on my website. I have also written another piece called "Africa Is Bleeding" which in this context is worth a read.
South African society has to find a away of making the people in power accountable to all the citizens of our country.
Butch Hannan

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## IanF

> Hi Ian,
> What is said in the quote would be a wonderful blueprint for our South African society to try to achieve and attain. There is one little word that is sadly lacking in the make up of our public figures, our civil servants and politicians. The word is accountability.


Butch the second bullet point covers this "Transparency and accountability, without which governments abuse their power and compromise the freedoms enshrined in the constitution."
What type of political party would convince the majority of the voters to vote the ANC out of power? That is the conundrum. My thoughts are maybe COSATU as they are are making the most sense out of the ANC alliance partners. A labour party in SA?

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## AndyD

The thing is that if the ANC are falling so far short of their promises, corruption is endemic and yet they still have such high support of the people, does this put then in the category of being a religion rather than a political party?

If so wouldn't this mean the Julius Malema is a prophet rather than just a politician?

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## Dave A

> does this put then in the category of being a religion rather than a political party?


A *cult*, perhaps?  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## sgafc

Yes, few want to believe the conspiratorial views of things! But as a famous politician said once. "Rest assured if certain things happen IN POLITICS, it was PLANNED that way".

South Africa's politicians are in the Iron Grip of very evil people lurking in the shadows manipulating events. Now I am not going to give you things pulled from some nutcase website, but just 1) Common Sense, and 2) Personal Experience.

Who funded the ANC all these years, when the Aborigines in Australia could not find anybody to listen to their plight? The Rothchilds, Royal Dutch Shell(Remember Shell House?)

Ever seen the names that crop up in many of the scandals? The links to oil and drug barons.

I vividly recall being invited, to a stunning home on the slopes of Table Mountain while on holiday in Cape Town, for a braai, in December 2003, by a friend in The ANC youth league. Guess what, the house was owned by the late Brett Kebble. After his murder it was revealed that this man was bank rolling the league and its members. 

These young lions and many in the ANC are taking "kick backs" from people with questionable backgrounds. read Noseweek, and one can see how deep the Rabbit Hole goes.

Why is the ANC, a socalled Non Racial party, build by people of all races becoming a racist party? 20 years ago Mandela pleaded with whites to stay and build the country. Today whites are told to F-off if they want to leave.

I dont care what your political beliefs are, but something does not add up. Are these dark forces behind the ANC, poisining it up from within, disentegrating it along tribal lines, and creating so much mayhem so that a SAVIOUR,can just move in at the right time? I dont know..

I was in the UDF in the 80"s with all races, fighting for social justice. The UDF, an ANC ally, I remember, never allowed any type off racism or tribalism. Whites(although a minority) languished in jail, and was even murdered by the security forces.

Todays ANC leaders spit racial venom, while taking the rewards from their WHITE handlers, who were nowhere to be found during the Apartheid Years! :Frown:

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## IanF

Sean
Your insight is really eye opening. You ask what happened. It looks like it started with the arms deal. Did you read the opinion piece by Desmond Tutu et al. in yesterday's Sunday Times. The link is here Sunday Times article. 



> The arms deal constituted the largest military transfer in history between industrialised countries and Africa. Now, more than a decade later, we are sad and concerned that the concerns we raised were well founded. The arms deal is described by the Institute For Democracy in South Africa (Idasa) as "the litmus test of South Africa's commitment to democracy and good governance". As predicted, the arms deal unleashed a culture of corruption that has severely undermined the transition in South Africa from apartheid to democracy. Non-delivery riots all over the country express public perceptions that the procurement of very costly military goods was given priority before combating the devastating legacy of the apartheid era.


Now maybe the conspiracy theories are right and the corruption and the illuminati have a basis and don't appear so crackpot. The question still remains if the ANC don't deserve to lead us which party can defeat them in an election and run the country?

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## sgafc

Thats my answer. Mavericks, people who think for themselves and get rid of these politicians. Dont think that the DA has the answers. They have made a mess of some municipalities, and my experience with them(in business), has shocked the living daylights out of me.

Consider this: Steve Biko, a Black Nationalists, who promoted mental emancipation of the Black Man, self reliance and hard work-MURDERED! :Mad: 

Patrice Lumamba: True Independence from corporate control-Murdered

Malcolm X: A racist Black seperatist at First, but killed when he promoted racial reconciliation and peace between Black and White.

Chris Hani: A Radical Communist, but taken out when he became critical of the ANC, 

John Lennon: A peaceful musician, killed for asking people to live in PEACE. :Headbutt: 

The list is endless. Awake the revolutionary in you. Not a violent one, but the ONE that strives for peace.

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## sgafc

My point of the previous post is this;

Talk racism and evil and divide people and you safe. But as soon as one talks about reconciliation, peace and UNITY of mankind you branded a "revolutionary". You become a marked person.

Thats the simple answer. 

We constantly bicker about getting the "right" party into government, who represents us. This is utter bullsh*t. This is giving responsibility away. WE CAN LEAD. I dont have all the answers, but know that democracy is not working.

Just look at people going about their lives and couldnt care a hoot about politics. Having said that, I still think people have a role to play. Maybe in Civil Society, ie religion, associations, media etc.

Remember: Everybody wants something from Government But the Government takes from Everybody!!

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## tec0

sgafc>> You have a lot of passion. 

Still letâs understand that peace always had a heavy price. Yes good people have been lost for no real reason. Whatever the future hold for us, whatever choices are made we have to understand that politics in general is based on a âpoint of fewâ

If a âpoint of fewâ is shared by the masses then there will not be change only more of the same. In the end we will have anarchy and Africa have many such stories and within these stories it is always the poor that suffers. 

When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die.
by: Jean-Paul Sartre

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## sgafc

So do you Tec0 :Wink:  
What a boring world this would have been if we all agreed with each other. 
Having said that,I cant believe the fear that one man(Malema) has, and continues to instill in South Africa in general, but whites in particular, when there are greater things at play behind the scenes.

Yes, Africa has always been doomed. 
But something bizzarre is happening in Southern Africa. My research into the Secret Brotherhood(Illuminati) fortunately enabled me to explain(to myself)many of the occurrences in Southern Africa.Despite farms being confiscated in Zimbabwe from small farmers. Certain elite families from Europe still own vasts tracts of land in that poor country. See the trend, bully poor white folks, but take the cash from the RICH white folk in Europe or elsewhere. See the Zimbabwe dictator also asociated himself with criminals such as diamond and oil smugglers and the notorious Billy Rautenbach(a rich white man protected by a Black Racist), a high ranking criminal, protected by Mugabe. Still to be arrested by South AFrican authorities for local crimes, nothin done to date.

As greatful as I am for the peaceful transition in RSA, I remain flummoxed that the country suddenly saw "peace" after the 1994 elections. When all countries go through a bloody revolution first.

I remain skeptical about the multi-nationals involvement in South Africa.
The depreciation/ appreciation of the rand and the manipulation of the gold price as well as the ARMS DEAL remains a mystery.

The dissappearance from the political landscape of sane politicians, in and outside of the ANC, is clearly orchestrated. And I have yet to see the rand collapsing due to Malema and company's statements, but the rand crashed apparently in 1987, due to Trevor Manuel and Mbeki's(no angel) utterances at that time.

SA remains strategic to International Interests, be it economical, regional or the "far fetched" New World Order plans.

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## Dave A

> And I have yet to see the rand collapsing due to Malema and company's statements, but the rand crashed apparently in 1987, due to Trevor Manuel and Mbeki's(no angel) utterances at that time.
> 
> SA remains strategic to International Interests, be it economical, regional or the "far fetched" New World Order plans.


I'm sure you meant 19*9*7 - and yes, I tend to agree; a lesson was being handed out by big money in that episode.  :Frown: 

If not in driving the run itself, then at least in not supporting the S A Reserve Bank in its efforts at the time.

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## tec0

Truth is a situation exists because the point of view exists. Basically one must ask why? And if you think it is about âthe new world orderâ I will not say you are wrong. If you say it is about history, you will find no argument from me. 

Fact is, I have moved beyond conspiracy, government and history and basses my actions on survival. The point I am making is, if someone wants to promote instability rather ignore and hope others will ignore because if they donât then they will have instability and eventually there will be nothing left to fight about.

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## twinscythe12332

humanity has always had an underlying dislike of one another. often enough, this can be likened to a boulder on the top of a hill. it takes a bit of effort to get the boulder rolling, but once it has begun to roll, it becomes increasingly more difficult to stop it. All that is left when the boulder has stopped is a wake of destruction.
Dreams of peace and stability will forever remain dreams, especially now that the world is being drawn together by the internet. The world is small enough as it is.

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## sgafc

Yes Dave, I meant *1997*, sorry for the confusion friends!! :Smile:

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## sgafc

All the Callers to a radio station expressed their disgust with Malema's treatment of the BBC journalist yesterday. Understandable, but this was coming from a black radio station, with a following from an age range between 18 and 40, considered to be Malema's turf.

The so called ANC mouthpiece-Sowetan had this to say in their editorial,this morning.
"Obviously his jaunt across the Limpopo hasnt done him good. At 29 he is now spewing the sort of bile previously thought to be the sole preserve of senile leaders such as Mad Bob Mugabe."  it ends with, Somebody, anybody, please save Malema from himself.

Google Malema+ Kebble, and a range of sites open showing facts on the frauds, corporate failures, bailouts and other scandals linking to the youth league. The young lions have been calling the shots for some time now.Remember who kicked Mbeki out. 

How can ANC mayors be fired for the silliest of thigs, but Malema can get away with anything? :Headbutt:

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Butch Hannan (10-Apr-10), sterne.law@gmail.com (09-Apr-10)

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

i think the heading of this thread should be changed, which is what I thought 
Malema a Monster in the making - Should read

Malema a MONSTER

when it was first started and certainly now I dont think it i know it.

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Butch Hannan (10-Apr-10)

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## Jacques#1

Remember what happened to Chris Hani?  Whats your opinions on the same happening to Malema?

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## Jacques#1

What I mean by this...political leaders all across the world gets assasinated on "regular" basis?  Whos to say that he's not next in line...and don't think I am saying a white man will do it, hes got enemies everywhere including the ANC.  I have spoken to a few black guys and they all think his an %$#, and they are all ANC, and in their mid twenties????

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## denver33

Don't you think a better question is what kind of society do we have for this kind of person to still be in a position of influence?





> Malema reminds me of a teenager who is completely out of control. My question here is that is our society at large  busy creating a monster who one day might rule our country. There are an awful lot of this type of individual running countries throughout Africa.
> 
> Do we really want this to happen here.
> Butch Hannan

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## Butch Hannan

> Don't you think a better question is what kind of society do we have for this kind of person to still be in a position of influence?


There is one thing that bothers me about Malema and that is whether he is very clever or just plain stupid. He has become a wonderful diversion for the ANC for the real problems of this country. Let us not forget that Zuma owes his survival in the ANC mainly to Malema and the youth vote. Is Zuma not the person pulling Malema's strings.

Butch Hannan

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## murdock

shabier shaik...comes to mind...shame such a sick man...who needs medicine when you have the right connections...you get rewarded unconditionally...chances are even family members will rewarded with key positions.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

Correction - have already been rewarded...and the judge..and..should I carry on

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## IanF

ANC has finally reacted and it looks like they are trying to reign him in.



> The ANC "strongly condemned" its youth league president Julius Malema's treatment of a BBC journalist, a spokesperson said on Friday.
> 
> "The aggressive and insultive (sic) behaviour to the said journalist that culminated with Mr Fisher walking out of the Youth League press briefing cannot be condoned at all," said spokesperson Jackson Mthembu.
> 
> The ruling party issued a strongly-worded response to the incident at an ANCYL media briefing on Thursday.
> 
> *Reflected negatively on ANC*
> 
> "The unfortunate outburst by Comrade Julius Malema did not only reflect negatively on him, but also reflected negatively on the ANC YL, the entire ANC family, our alliance partners as well as South Africa in the eyes of the international community."
> ...


This is from the times website. So lets see how this twists and turns now. Just why does it happen before the world cup wow can we as South Africa shoots ourselves in the foot!

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## murdock

i read somewhere that shabir shaik has become eligable to tender for goverment tenders again...i cannot find the article to copy and paste it...does anyone have proof of this?

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## Dave A

I would have thought the stress would kill him  :Stick Out Tongue:

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## wynn

ol Justice has this to say!
and read the reply by 'Enie' it refers to an address by Cane 'Berman'

perhaps a new name for Julie is *'Kid Idi Meglamelamaniac'*

read the article
http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/c...lack-and-white

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Butch Hannan (13-Apr-10), Dave A (12-Apr-10)

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## Butch Hannan

One of our friends from overseas has cancelled his planned visit to the opening of the 2010 ceremony because of the utterances of Malema. This is very sad to me.
The articles from Justice and Cane Berman are very good. What is happening is that politically connected black people are benefitting from BEE. They in all probability view this as "just rewards". The masses are no better off than they were and in fact a lot are far worse off now.
Butch Hannan

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## garthu

Hiya Guys, been a while!!

I think that ANC is finally getting to a point where enough is enough. I hope anyway. He needs to be brought under control. Problem now is that so does AWB at the same time. These 2 small factions can end up causing a world of cuck, even potentially to world cup. Time to get it under control JZ!

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## Dave A

> Hiya Guys, been a while!!


Welcome back, Garth  :Wave: 



> One of our friends from overseas has cancelled his planned visit to the opening of the 2010 ceremony because of the utterances of Malema.


It wasn't that ridiculous story about a racial massacre happening in the streets? From what I've seen there have been some ludicrous reports running overseas that is absolute BS. Don't know where they suck their stuff from.

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## Jacques#1

Fake or real?  Going around in emails today, "official tourist tshirts".

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## garthu

Tks Dave, good to be around. I have a couple of those pics from overseas news papers. Ill find them and post them. REALLY STUPID STUFF and where they get from. One of the lines "people running around the street with machete" Talk about inciting!! REALLY stupid :Mad:

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## garthu

Here they are, found. The BS is incredible and the reporters involved need to get there facts straight. They offer good reason as to why the press takes so much flack on there freedom.

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## Dave A

The ANCYL (and some factions within the ANC) are not happy about Jacob Zuma's public comments on Julius Malema.

I just love this bit:



> League spokesperson Floyd Shivambu said Zuma's public stance had surprised him. The league had agreed with ANC officials after an incident in which the league publicly attacked ANC deputy president Kgalema Motlanthe last year that leaders should refrain from open mutual recrimination.
> 
> "We were not aware that Zuma can condemn any leader of the ANC in public," said Shivambu.
> from M&G story here


Of course, that's not criticising the President in public.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## wynn

In any society there are the 1%'ers and unfortunately ours is divided to the left and right. M&G has a thought leader that maybe expresses what most of us (99%) think

http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/grant...-really-means/

 :Thumbup:

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## Jacques#1

Guys, have a look at this website, but please be warned that some of the articles are extremely graphic.  If you go into the police files, you'll understand what I am talking about.  One thing I know for sure, after reading these stats and some of the rape and violence stories, I can understand why the farmers are so extremely bitter and angry.  You would be too if your neighbors wife was killed with a broomstick up the you know where (very graphic pictures), after being stabbed, burnt, and raped for hours on end.  Imagine it was your wife/baby boy's head bludgeoned in?  Yes, we don't believe that these crimes are happening on a daily basis because we don't see it on the news.....why do you think that is by the way?  Why do you think that the police refuses to release the crime stats to us?  If you believe the stats of people keeping score, you'll see that black on white crime is more than 60%, yet white is a tenth of the population.  If I was a tourist, I would be scared as well.  And I believe this may be a wake up call to everyone, the whole world, so they can see what is really happening and stop believing this BS that everybody keeps talking.  http://www.boycott-2010-world-cup.co.nr/

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Butch Hannan (17-Apr-10)

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## Dave A

> M&G has a thought leader that maybe expresses what most of us (99%) think
> 
> http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/grant...-really-means/


Reading the comments shows the difficulty in being "moderate". In many ways taking an extreme position is easier to promote.

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## murdock

and we all thought the constant reminder during our training in the sadf that this was exactly what was gona happen if we didnt go to the border and save families from these people...now look where we sit...

i have just got back from collecting some stuff i purchased from a person who has just had enough...he has moved into an estate in balito.

he was telling me why he moved there and has now decided enough is enough...he leaves in june

he was about to be attacked by a group in his house but lucky for him the neighbour arrived home at the time they were entering his property...they changed course and decided to turn the nieghbours life into a living hell...robbed beaten dragged thru the house etc etc the same story never told by the news

i am just so tired of these stories...have them all day long in my travels.

this morning 4 black youhths arrested in pinetown for attempted house breakings...and what ever else they were up to...its a joke to them laghing at the police sitting with a grin on their faces...it was probably not the first time for all of them.

i watched a lady today on the n2 locked in her car with a flat wheel...i was gona stop and help her but i had my wife and daughter in the car with me so i decided against it for my family safety...if i didnt have my family in the car with me i would have stopped and helped her but couldnt risk their lives...doesnt it just make you sick to your stomach that you cant even stop on a national highway out of fear for your life to help a fellow human in distress :Headbutt: 

and i read posts on the internet saying south africa is not as violent as some people make it out to be and the crime is nothing like people make it out to be 

a little while back i stop at a robot in the middle of pinetown...was pre- occupied and forgot to lock my doors...i noticed 1 young black male standing on the pavement watching the cars...i noticed him pull out a knife and slide the blade up his sleeve and start walking towards my vehicle siganlled to someone else who i ddint even see until he was right next to my vehicle...they came from both sides of my vehicle at which time i realised my doors where unlocked...locked them quickly...boy was that close...middle of the day who would have expected in broad daylight with plenty people around...as he walked away put the knife away and walked up the road.

in durban a couple of months ago i feel an almighty bang on the side of my head and before i can say jack frost my cellphone is gone off down the road...still in a daze from the bang on my head i realise what has happened and chase after this fool who thinks he has just got himself q cellphone

vehicle left in smith street door wide open with the keys still in the bakkie off i go i chased him thru the taxi rank...thru the market...as i am running after him i notice a steady bang bang on the tables of the vendors getting louder...he stops thinking he has scored a phone...turrns and sees me coming the shock on his face....man you should have seen it...off he goes again...trust me i wasnt even catching up...but to my amazement i notice a group of black men make a v as he runs into it they stop him....phewww finally i catch up...they asked me why i was chasing him...i told them he had stolen my phone...they found it rather amusing that i had chased him into their territory...got my phone back and walked back to my bakkie

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## Butch Hannan

I have also visited this site and I agree with you. The Government is living in a state of denial. Maybe the only way to wake them up is to get the overseas press to splash these pictures all over their front pages. My family and I were held up four years ago in a rented house while on holiday in Shelley Beach. They held us at gun point for over three hours while they ransacked the house. My greatest fear was for my wife, daughter, grand daughter 9yrs and grand son 11 yrs. The only thing that saved us was the fact they got about R8000-00, all our cellphones and a lot of clothing. My very brave grandson pleaded for his grandparents life and offered his play station in exchange for our lives. We have received councilling but believe you me this episode changed our lives and we all live in constant fear.
There are other websites with plenty of graphic pictures.
Have a look at the poem that I wrote "South Africa We Are Free" which was written after this episode. You will find it on the undermentioned website.

Butch Hannan

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## Dave A

How real is Malema's power?

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## Butch Hannan

I believe that Malema is a real threat to stability in this country. The article sums up the situation that exists within the ANC and its Alliance partners. I would describe the situation as volatile to say the least. Malema is a very important player in this whole situation. Malema has a very large support base amongst the people who have not really enjoyed the promised fruits from the so called new freedoms of South Africa. He is busy creating a very large following of revolutionary type of followers.
If Malema is not disciplined by the ANC hierarchy this will show just how powerful he is.

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## IanF

YOU'VE GOT TO LOVE THIS FARMER'S OUTLOOK & COMMON SENSE APPROACH TO LIFE



While sewing a cut on the hand of a 75 year old farmer, 

who's hand was caught in the gate while working cattle, 

the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. 

Eventually the topic got around to the ANC and Julius Malema 

The old farmer said, 'Well, you know, in my opinion, Malema is a 'Post Turtle''. 

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him, what a 'post turtle' was. 

The old farmer said, 'When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a 'post turtle'. 

The old farmer saw the puzzled look on the doctor's face so he continued to explain. 

'You know he didn't get up there by himself, 

he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he's up there, 

and you just wonder what kind of dumb-f### put him up there to begin with.

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Butch Hannan (04-May-10), Chatmaster (03-May-10), Dave A (03-May-10), daveob (03-May-10)

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## Chatmaster

Simply the best one I ve heard in a long, long time. great one Ian!

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## Butch Hannan

Thank you for a really good one. I now have a wonderful picture in my mind of a very long row of poles with turtles on them. The turtles would obviously be all the incompetents in positions of power. At say two meters apart I wonder if the poles would stretch from Beit Bridge to Cape Town.

Butch Hannan

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## wynn

Yep! with detours to Kwa Zulu, the Eastern Cape, the northern Cape and the whole of the Transvaal!

 :Detective:  :Drunk:

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## IanF

Sometimes I do get real gems in an email. I am happy to share and that it is well received.

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## murdock

i have to admit that one made my day :Big Grin:

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## Superscenic

I saw a article "discussing" Malema in Time Magazine. This means Time-Warner and the scum who uses that seedy brochure as a mouthpiece want Malema to be president. Quite a few people are already eager to lap up our agricultural land and mines.

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## murdock

just like the congo and other rich in mineral resources african countries...

after doing some research into the congo and why the county is the way it is...i found that the only reason the country is in such a bad state...is because the so called 1st world countries need the resources so they pump 100s of millions of dollars worth of arms and ammunition into the country to keep it unstable...and only a small amount of actual aid like food and medicine.

with the fighting going on they can move in and clean out the resources and probably dump what waste they need to...just like the oil in the middle east...its all about the money...they have absolutley no interest in the well being og the local population...they leave that for the rich and famous movie stars etc to make themselve look good by offer aid...feel good projects...if they were so heart set on doing good they would go live there and make a difference.

the same with this country...if they can destablise this countries and get a war going here they will stop us from benefiting from our own resourses...instead offer julius and his band of merry men a small incentive...a couple of million to retire and safety...then take what they want...one of those things is gona be clean water.

why do you think mugabe is still alive only because the 1st world countries want him around...he is a front doing their dirty work and slowing down the removing of valuable resouces...it is not about the people...just the greed...if they didnt want mugabe around they could take him out from a ship in the indian ocean...with all the technology and arms they have.

anyway this is my opinion...i might be way off the mark...but at face value this is what i see.

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## tec0

I donât know if this bit of news belongs here but it does hold connection to the ANCYL




> Zille calls on Zuma to rein in ANCYL
> 
> DA LEADER Helen Zille has called on President Jacob Zuma to rein in ANC Youth League members who demolished toilets at Gugulethu in Cape Town.
> 
> On Monday, toilet enclosures the city council had erected hours earlier were destroyed.
> 
> The ANCYL said it was unhappy with the corrugated metal sheets the city had used and wanted concrete instead.
> 
> âThe ANCâs attack on DA members in Gugulethu last night and the ANCYLâs destruction of toilet enclosures in Makhaza earlier in the day are not isolated incidents. They form part of a pattern of violence, intimidation, and intolerance of opposition,â Zille said. â Zukile Majova


Source 


> http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1145303


The question here is; why are there no formal investigations from the UN? Clearly there something really wrong here if you take all events into consideration. 

Honestly: "violence, intimidation, and intolerance of opposition" Doesnât that sound like something that happened in Zimbabwe?  :Confused:

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## Butch Hannan

*This is an extract from the DA News Letter.*

Top Story: National Treasury praises DA run City of Cape Town 

A recent report by the National Treasury, confirmed that the City of Cape Town attained its sixth successive unqualified audit. Tim Harris MP, DA Member of the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) said that the report showed how well the City of Cape Town was doing, in terms of its quality service delivery, sound financial planning and good governance. 

The National Treasuryâs mid year budget and performance assessment praised the Cityâs ârobust financial systemsâ and welcomed the âgood planning and adequate capacity to spend by the Cityâ, said Harris. 

The report also welcomed the creation of 10,000 permanent jobs (and 16 300 temporary jobs), in spite of the economic recession. Statistics South Africa recently indicated that between the last quarter of 2009 and the first quarter of 2010, the unemployment rate in the DA-governed Western Cape had fallen by more than 1%. No doubt, the City of Cape Townâs strong job creation record played a large part in this, said Harris. 

Global Credit Rating (GCR) also awarded the City of Cape Town, one of the highest possible long term debt ratings of AA- this year. This was the highest credit rating that was achieved in the municipalities reviewed by GCR, and placed the City of Cape Town ahead of Buffalo City, the City of Johannesburg, the City of Tshwane, Nelson Mandela Bay and a host of other ANC run metros, stated Harris. 

Harris welcomed the findings and said that the Treasuryâs report stood out as testament to the DAâs excellent track record in government and the Cityâs financial planning capabilities and service delivery standards, serving as further proof that the DA was now both a party of government and the only other meaningful alternative to the ANC which continued to deliver on its promises to voters.

The fact that the ANC Youth League have to resort to breaking down toilets should tell us something about this scenario.
Butch Hannan

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## Butch Hannan

The Belgians were kicked out of the Congo in the first half of 1960 so they have been independent for over 50 years. The one thing that they do not need is aid as they are an extremely wealthy country resource wise. What is holding them back is plain tribalism and lack of a decent work ethic.

Read the pieces on my website called *"Shame On You Africa"* *"Africa Is Bleeding"*

Butch Hannan

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sgafc (27-May-10)

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## sgafc

> just like the congo and other rich in mineral resources african countries...
> 
> after doing some research into the congo and why the county is the way it is...i found that the only reason the country is in such a bad state...is because the so called 1st world countries need the resources so they pump 100s of millions of dollars worth of arms and ammunition into the country to keep it unstable...and only a small amount of actual aid like food and medicine.
> 
> with the fighting going on they can move in and clean out the resources and probably dump what waste they need to...just like the oil in the middle east...its all about the money...they have absolutley no interest in the well being og the local population...they leave that for the rich and famous movie stars etc to make themselve look good by offer aid...feel good projects...if they were so heart set on doing good they would go live there and make a difference.
> 
> the same with this country...if they can destablise this countries and get a war going here they will stop us from benefiting from our own resourses...instead offer julius and his band of merry men a small incentive...a couple of million to retire and safety...then take what they want...one of those things is gona be clean water.
> 
> why do you think mugabe is still alive only because the 1st world countries want him around...he is a front doing their dirty work and slowing down the removing of valuable resouces...it is not about the people...just the greed...if they didnt want mugabe around they could take him out from a ship in the indian ocean...with all the technology and arms they have.
> ...


You dont only have to research the Congo. Look at all the resource rich countries that were exploited around the world. The assasination of Patrice Lumumba was a precursor to the "take over" of the Congo.

The Middle East is kept unstable, to keep the oil flowing at reasonable prices.

Coming back to the tribal/ethnic conflict. Tribes are not killing each other with machetes and spears, but AK47. Ever heard of the instance where smugglers were caught of the coast of Sierra Leonne smuggling modern weapons.
Of course tribal conflict is real, but it is no doubt inflamed by secret organisations.

Poor resource third world countries know peace, but as soon as oil or other minerals are discovered, war flares up!

But then again, minerals are just part of the plot. It goes much deeper. Far from being an instrument in the New World Order, Africa is actually an obstacle, since she has not attained the technological advancement, necessary for the implementation of the One World Government.

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## phoenixfire

We as the PEOPLE of this country are the only ones that can topple a government by voting the right people in. Malema is the one the ANC uses to gain access to the other provinces and to get people voting for the ANC. The ANC wants to take over the entire country and in so doing, will then turn South Africa into another Zimbabwe. This was predicted, and the person who predicted the many things that has already happened in SA, said this would happen, and then a person would bring this all out of Civil War. I have already started collecting strategic information on this country. You will be surprised as to how much we can do without the government even knowing, and what a person can bring into this country without the government knowing. And the necessary information for strategic strikes have already been given to the USA. A few people I randomly met, that are in the military have marked strategic sites for removal. 
And at the end of the day, I keep saying to everyone, stop blabbing, and do something about the problem, as all that everyone does, is argue and throw words and yet, while that happens, the ruling party sneaks in behind you without you knowing, because we are all to busy keeping our attention on arguments that they used to distract us from their actual plans. We need to wake up and see their plans, and find out what is being planned, not argue with everyone. That merely create more problems and then we get nowhere.

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## phoenixfire

Previous comment was a bit carried away. But if you think about it. The US, UK, and China have been called in before by other countires to help with unrest and problems. And as South Africa provides some of the largest natural mineral resources in the world, I am not surprised at someone trying to get their dirty littel hands on it. And I do believe that the continuous unrest being maintained in the middle east is to keep prices lowish. However, there will always be a power struggle for the richest oils, mines, businesses, and so on. There will be a fight and a so called "New World Order" will attempt to gain world control, but does that not sound like the coming of the end? There was a set of books written and even movies made of this occurance happening, but of course they had a rather demonic person (Possessed Person) at the center of it all, and that person was the head of the UN. I have a few question regarding what is infact happening in SA. 
One of those are, "Why do we allow the government to get away with what they are doing?" We are the people who can stop it by truly standing together and voting with a great big single voice and giving another party a chance to gain enough power to oppose the ANC and ANCYL. Why do we just complain and do nothing about it? And to be honest, if the ANC stuck with the way Mandela wanted things to be, it would have been better than it is now. As it is Nelson Mandela publicly voiced his disappointment in what the ANC has become. There is no longer equality, which is what was being fought for, there is now only reverse aparheid occuring. The ANC are implementing the same apartheid laws as it was 40 years ago that they fought to bannish, and now they are holding the new generations resposible and reaking revenge on the new generations of other races and their own generation is being shown the ways of violence and therefore will only know violence as they grow up. And we the people let this happen. It has been predicted that there will be civil war in SA before a new peaceful government takes control. Now another question, "Are we going to stand by as the people of SA and let this happen to our country?" Are we going to let it be distroyed by simple, dishonorable, violent, arrogant, disgraceful, unthankful, disrespectful people? What are we going to do?

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## Adiel

Malema ... he appeals to the uneducated mind. Psychology of a society and an individual... misinterpretered as a fighter for the weak or a fool in search of power.By listening to this CAVEman people lose hope cause certainly his ideoligies lie with Uncle Bobs teachings .
If the other parties want to have a say they need to make a positive contribution ... build RDP houses . He can't nationalise this now can he ? ANC promissed houses ... where are they and who lives in them ?

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Butch Hannan (19-Jun-10)

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## sgafc

Never! The agenda unfolding on our continent is going according to plan(International Corporations), albeit with difficulty. The UN is behind the conflicts on the globe. Either by refusing to intervene, or further stoking up the fires of hatred.

The very same UN(and USA), folded their arms when people were dying in third world countries. "Democracy" in South Africa, only happened because they sanctioned it! The timing was right. :Wink: 

South Africa was and will never be owned by the ANC, or the people, Black or white. The entire economy is controlled from the outside, overtly and covertly.And economic control is essentially political control.

Think this is rubbish? Take a closer look at the the shareholding of so called local corporates, and all those multinational corporations that listed(actually sold out!) in London. Even the reserve bank has foreign shareholders.

Vividly recall reading a prospectus of a London coal mutinational, and noticed that 90% of the directorships were foreign, and oh! 90% of the coal was also exported to foreign countries. So we essentially exporting money and resources, leaving South Africa with crumbs, ... the very same crumbs, which Black and White people are now fighting over. 

We should have looked at the bigger picture, but we refuse to. Result is growing racial tension and economic anarchy...Exactly as planned... :Fence:

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## sgafc

A number of high profile corporates have banned e-mails that is critical of Zuma and Malema1

While the media is exposing all it could find, and following Malema like puppies, Free Speech is  restricted in SA Corporates. This is obviously, NOT TO OFFEND the sensitive ANC Directors and BEE Network Partners.

My Point here is the sucking up to the ANC by Corporates who did the same with the National Party. Big Business are lackeys of the Government(or I think it is the other way around).

Non of the BEE Billionaires will last a day in the shoes of entrepreneurs on this forum or in REAL business. The issue however is not race or BEE, it is the politicians and elite that has been placed in huge corporates. Why?

I urge people to do independant research. The corruption goes beyond the ANC.

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## wynn

absolutely!!!

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## tec0

sgafc >> The World Domination Plan aka conspiracy aside, I would love to know why? Why hurt everybody why so much suffering... Yes it is true oil pumped out of the ground is worth more than human life.

So letâs say it is over, humanity is hopelessly enslaved and the powerful has it all... Now what? Life was supposed to be a gift and this world was supposed to be our home. People are afraid our gods hesitant and then you have this total and utter hopelessness. 

My question is what will be next? Or will we become the void   :Frown:

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## sgafc

@Teco...I also get upset with many conspiracy theorist for all the doom and gloom predictions...no solutions.

Conspiracies aside... No government, no individual is responsible for our state. They might have caused it...and yes Julius Malema is frustrating us...or even better still, that referee AWARDING A PENALTY TO URUGAY IN THE BAFANA MATCH :Mad:  :Mad:   We remain responsible.

Every day we are faced with choices, varying from two to hundreds. We tend to gravitate towards the easy choice, that fits in exactly with our life plan..but rarely notice that"easy choices", ie selecting the same leaders, doing
things the "natural way" actually contribute to a hard life.

It is when we make an unconventional choice, which requires willpower, that we truly enjoy the benefits.OK simply put "You are stuck n heavy traffic, you can choose to become angry, which will mess up your entire day OR you can enjoy the ride, listen to some music, and seek out beautiful scenary around you". Wanna bet me that the second choice will not brighten up your day? Yes it is difficult, it is much easier to scream at all the silly drivers causing the gridlock, it takes willpower to relax, but will have greater benefits in the end.

We can extrapolate that to the bigger scanario of politics and sport as well.

PS. Bafana can Blame the ref as much as they want. They did not play that match with Uruguay with much vigour  :Zzzzz:  :Zzzzz:

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Dave A (18-Jun-10)

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## Dave S

I've always maintained that the political deterioration in our Country has a far sinister (did I get the spelling right) reasoning. It's not just the ANC adopting a "reversed rasism" approach.

Governments outside our economy are having a field day, and more scary, it's all going according to plan...

If you dig deep enough, you will eventually find the one (Government) behind it all, China would still get my vote, they are influencing every world economy. :Detective:

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## phoenixfire

China is influencing many economy's. It follows the exact plans of the way things will be. However, I find that it is the absolute laziness of the people in this country that is so surprising. No one is actually making an effort to pick a government, they just pick the same one and hope for the best. If they continue, everything in SA will nationalize, and there will no longer be freedom of speech, democracy, or even the ability to own a business. The government will force you to give your business to them or you will be forced to close your business by government. There is nothing that can be done, UNLESS, we the people of this country (South Africa) stand up and quit being a bunch of lazy asses and do something about it, and yes I agree with SGAFC, it does not always help to get angry (Sometimes it does maybe, pending on the scenario), but in this case not really. We need to get off our lazy collective asses and do something about it. There is a saying, an old one at that, "get smart and even, not stupid and angry". Strangely enough, its also from a person of Asian decent (Japanese). We have more ingenuity in our small fingers that many people do, but yet we moan and groan and waist our time complaining about people we cannot change unless we climb in and do something. I have started doing something from my side. And simply showing which ideas are more beneficial in my instance, make people changes their minds. Which is what I learned and trained for. So, what is the message you say, "get smart and even, not stupid and angry".

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## Dave A

> The government will force you to give your business to them or you will be forced to close your business by government.


Or "your" business will simply become an extension of government...

I look at the dictates that come from government as to how business owners are expected to conduct their affairs. Lots are fair enough such as tax issues, environmental issues, worker safety issues.

But some of these dictates are crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed.

Probably not the right thread to go into details, but there seems to be very little thought put into the "rights" of business owners at times. 

Who's money and future is *really* being put on the line in a business venture?

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tec0 (18-Jun-10)

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## Butch Hannan

I wish to give my thanks for all the Forum members who have got involved in this topic. It is strange how it has covered almost the whole spectrum of issues that concern us as South Africans. China has now surfaced which is one that frightens me. China is a world economic force and we need to look at the reason why. They have a very large _"captive work_ *force,* _highly productive and grossly under paid"_ Because of this they are manufacturing brand names for the world at very low prices. The Americans and Europeans are using China to manufacture goods for them. The paw paw will eventually strike the fan when this slumbering giant of a work force set about liberating themselves. This will happen whether it takes five  or fifty years. What will happen then is that Chinese goods will escalate in price and possibility throw the whole world economy into turmoil.
The Chinese need our raw materials and are involved in all sorts of projects in the whole of Africa to try and secure them. They have taken over a controlling interest in some of the Samancor Chrome mines in the Steelpoort area. Dilokong Mine and Chrome Works in the same area belongs to ASA Metals which is Chinese.
Take a walk through your own towns and cities and count the "Chinese Shops" and I am sure you will get a fright.
Economics or whatever you want to call it is what controls our world today. I think it was John Malthus who gave a definition of economics as_ " The study of the wants of man and the satisfaction of these wants"_
Back to my friend Julius Malema. He wants to take us into a state controlled economy but with their record of ill discipline and non existent work ethic this will never stand a chance. Hopefully he will not get away with executing people in the "public square" for dissenting
Butch Hannan

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## tec0

If you look at how Eskom works then you will find that government controlled economics has been around longer than most of us. Right now Eskomâs higher management is earning millions and the workers that keep everything running is wondering why that is? What makes them so important?   

The truth is Eskom can function if some of those managers lose their jobs. But how long can a power station function without skilled labour? I will not pretend to understand economics because I feel that all of us have a right to life. The economic super powers on the other hand deemed it ok for 2% of the world population to be entitled to 98% of the worldâs earnings per year. 

I say if "they" want it all!! Then let them have it. Soon skilled labour will be none existent and then there happy little world will slowly fall apart. There are no training facilities to aid the young and old. There is no investment from Eskom into the general public. The same is true with the Telecommunications industry. These industries are all directly or indirectly controlled by government, and it always was. 

See in the end Government and Supper corporations will take so much from the normal working person that he/she will have nothing to lose... 

And do you know what is true when you have nothing to lose? 

Simple, if you have nothing to lose, you have everything to gain. I honestly think that economics and convergent has forgotten this little fact.  :Zzzzz:

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## garthu

I agree you with you mainly... management certainly does not deserve the incomes they make thats for certain




> I say if "they" want it all!! Then let them have it. Soon skilled labour will be none existent and then there happy little world will slowly fall apart


The only problem i have with that, is that it screws with my life as well when the lights go out!

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tec0 (21-Jun-10)

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## desA

Sometimes it's just better to get on with one's own life, than to worry too much about which fat-cat is skimming from the pot. They'll get their just reward at some point either in this life, or thereafter.

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## Butch Hannan

Just remember that if we ignore what is wrong in our country we are in fact silently condoning these wrongs.

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