# Regulatory Compliance Category > BEE and Employment Equity Forum >  No More BEE Fronting?

## wynn

Now you can go to jail for fronting??

http://www.businessday.co.za/article...aspx?id=163802

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## Dave A

Which kinda reminds me - is there a need to put together and submit a comment on the new bill?

If yes, the deadline can only be about a week away by the looks of things.

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## Justloadit

Remove BEE entirely, and I guarantee you that they will be able to achieve their goal. The moment you have to work to make money, you automatically start looking at ways to be more efficient and cost effective to get the order.

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## Dave A

> Remove BEE entirely, and I guarantee you that they will be able to achieve their goal.


Which goal?

One of the problems I see is there are a number of "government goals" floating around, many of which are in conflict with each other at the effects level. Not least of these is the unofficial goal of creating dependancy... and BEE serves that quite nicely.

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## Justloadit

I see BEE as a blatant attack on a minority group. Pure racism as its lowest level. If you look at any business out there, more than the majority of employees are of the local ethnic groups, but this is not good enough, now we must completely abolish any minority group in any decision making position. 17 years on, and the minority group is still being blamed for the current state of affairs.

To me the problem is that with the current situation with the relative management positions, are tripping up the shady operators, who can spin stories to the uninitiated,  and is in the interest to ensure that inexperienced are put into these positions so that they can spin their evil plans.

I listened to a news brief about the editors meeting with respect to the freedom of information act, and the headlines from the government on this, was not what the public was saying, but rather that "there has not been enough transformation in the media", now was the meeting to do with who owns the media, or was it to do with the information act. I am so sick and tired of the slandering of the minority groups, when they have been caught out, or can not answer the question, and the easiest way to move the attention, is simply to bring in racism. This is the reason we will never be able to clear the current crises, it is always easier to divert the public attention to some racism statement. Live with it! making laws is not going to change the experience you need to be in a specific position, it can only cause demise, destruction and failure. We must learn from what is happening in Egypt, we also have a huge group of unhappy, unemployed young people, who are getting restless, desperate and do not think about consequences to actions. It can turn very bad, and these statements against minority groups is building up hatred of the worst kind. 

If you listen to the news, you will hear of the Xenophobic violence taking place here and there, soon it will escalate, and there will be a lot of collateral damage.

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## Dave A

I think there is something of a strategic decision that needs to be made here.

I suspect a call to have BEE scrapped entirely is likely to be discarded after reading the first sentence. Not that there isn't a reasonable case to make for the scrapping of BEE, but I doubt the folks we need to influence have any interest in even hearing it.

It's probably wiser to focus on issues where there is a reasonable chance of influencing the result.

An example of an issue that might gain some traction is to ensure that small white businesses are not excluded completely. An example of the sort of measures that are causing problems is where large companies are insisting that they will only deal with companies with a BEE level of 3 or higher. This automatically excludes white owned BEE-scorecard-exempt micro-enterprises from competing for business at all, let alone trying to compete with a handicap.

We could always tack on the observation that we do seem to be following the Indonesian pattern of creating dependency and make a few pointed remarks about the real objectives of BEE not having been achieved.

I've also got the situation where my little operation has spawned two new black owned enterprises in the last five years – exactly of the type that the politicians seem to want so much. These are genuine entrepreneurs who trained up from scratch as employees in my business and have gone on to launch their own businesses – at least one of them with some success. And in terms of the codes, by my understanding, I get absolutely no credit for it.

In fact, I get the distinct impression that the powers that be would prefer that I was not in business at all.

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## Justloadit

> In fact, I get the distinct impression that the powers that be would prefer that I was not in business at all.


That is what the first line of my post is alluring too. Legal racism!

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## Dave A

Some hold it is *fair* legal racism... 

I try not to get wound up about it - but as someone who has been anti-racism my entire adult life, it is damn disappointing.

Ultimately I acknowledge we need to wilfully accelerate normalisation of our society and correct the racial disparities - I just think the BEE legislation is going about it the wrong way. 

But then some would hold my ideas would be going about it the wrong way too and wouldn't work very well either.

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## Justloadit

Hi Dave,

Whilst I agree about the normalization of society, the issue here is that racism is racism, there can not be any fair, little more or little less of it. The problem here is that the younger generation is being brought up with the racism and entitlement theme running about them, how are they ever going to shake this off? They in turn will become adults and will be influenced by their upbringing, and will exacerbate the racism and entitlement to a higher level, and we will be back to the pre 94 but on the opposite side of the fence.

It is time that we become vocal about this, the honeymoon is over, there have been 17 years to correct this and if it was not corrected, it is simply because of bad governance! it is time to move on.

If you can not compete, then it means you do not have the aptitude for the competition. Find something you good at, and make your mark there.

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## nkawit

> Remove BEE entirely, and I guarantee you that they will be able to achieve their goal. The moment you have to work to make money, you automatically start looking at ways to be more efficient and cost effective to get the order.


Not only this, it is a fact that most BEEE establishments tendering for services are unable to provide the service or product. We deal with government asking us for solutions almost every 2 weeks for failed tenders.

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