# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Who may work on an electrical installation?

## douw

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and joined specifically to ask for some opinions and your interpretations on the new EIR's.

So here goes:

The way I understand it, the regulations seems to aim to prevent anyone who is not a registered person, or supervised full time by a registered person, from undertaking any electrical work (reg. 6(1), 6(4)(b) and 5(4)).

That seems fair for new installations and commercial electrical work. I'm just wondering what this implies for all those 'bakkie' contractors doing fencing, pool pumps, plumbers installing geysers, etc. Also what happens if I replace or install my own pool pump, or install some new lights on the stoep. BTW I'm a millwright so I should be able to install a pool pump or some lights, as is many, many DIY'ers with more or less adequate skills to perform their own electrical work who are not regestered persons.

I realize that some or all of these regulations are not new, I was just reading it now because it was updated and these questions came to mind. Reg. 6(4)(b) combined with 5(4) implies that you can't get a registered person after the work has been done to test and certify it though, which I think is a new development or at least not the norm in the industry at the moment.

What are your responses?

PS: Moderator, if you think this should be a new thread plase move it or let me know and I'll repost.

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## murdock

in south africa anyone can work on an electrical installation...until they start policing the industry which could take a few years still to get "skilled people to perform the task who dont look after their buddies" 

the electrical industry is a joke.

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## Dave A

I think the idea is to try to clarify the *legal* situation as opposed to what is actually happening...  :Wink:

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## douw

Thanks Murdoc.

Everyone I talk to seems to be in agreement with you about the state of the industry. It just seems strange to me that all electricians you ever meet outside of work are always beyond any reproach and "will never stand for substandard work on their sites", yet I never seem to see any of their work anywhere except on industrial sites where everything is inspected by knowledgeable people and you don't get paid if your work does not conform.

I think what is happening is the same as the current trend in Gauteng to run red traffic lights; everyone does it so if you can't beat them, join them. No one gives a sh!t anyway and your chances of getting caught is so slim that you can ignore them. This is a system wide problem in South Africa with everone complaing about the crime and coruption while they are speeding, ignoring traffic sign left, right and centre and bribing traffic cops. There is just no respect for the right way things should be done.

Thanks Dave thats why I asked these questions, as I have been doing my own work forever and always wondered about this. I just think we should at least know what the law is, even if no one will adhere to it.

BTW. the reason I do my own work is because come time to have something installed or fixed you are hard pressed to find any small contractor that knows an Amp from a kWh.

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## Dave A

I'm genuinely interested in what the legal position is exactly. I've found in my time in the electrical contracting game (NOTE: I'm the financial director, *not* the technical director) there is a gap between what the law/regs say and how they are interpreted. There seems to be too much reliance on habit and hearsay and not enough grey matter being applied.

For example, I'm told by my techs that additions to an existing installation must be done under the "control" of an accredited person, but repairs to an existing installation (replacement of components) can be done by anyone. Now I have serious reservations about this.

Another one is in construction. How many of these installations are actually being done under the "control" of an accredited person?

And what can be considered "control" seems to be another can of worms  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I think these are excellent questions:
What exactly is the legal situation?
How is the legal position being policed/enforced?

There is an old adage that regulation that can't be enforced shouldn't be written as it penalises the honest and gives the dishonest an unfair advantage.

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## douw

Reg 5(4) states: 


> A registered person shall exercise general control over *all* electrical installation work being carried out, and no person may allow such work without such control.


"installation work" is defined:


> (a) the installation, extension, modification or repair of an electrical installation;
> (b) the connection of machinery at the supply terminals of such machinery; or
> (e) the inspection, testing and verification of electrical installations for the purpose of issuing a certificate of compliance;


not much room for interpretation there.

So that leaves the "control" can of worms Dave mentioned above.  That is what is not defined clearly in the regs. and that is what needs to be clarified, regardless of current convention.

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Dave A (29-Dec-09)

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## murdock

> I think the idea is to try to clarify the *legal* situation as opposed to what is actually happening...


there is no "legal situation in SA" hence my reply...the AIA try to act like they are some superior organisation but when it comes down to what is actually happening out they all the same...money talks and sh!ts walks.

i wear blinkers everyday and dont see or hear no evil anymore...just do what is required of me...get my money and move to the next project  :Big Grin:

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## murdock

to back up my statement about the electrical industry...this pic was taken in december 2009

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douw (10-Jan-10)

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## murdock

only reason i didnt post the rest of the pictures...was because the installation was so dangerous that if someone was injured onsite they might turn around and ask me why i didnt switch of the entire site...being a master electrician i should know better...my question is why is the person who did the work not arrested???

unfortunatly i have got to that stage in my life...as i mentioned in another thread...i put blinkers and do my work...follow the taxis to the front then push in...why get upset just do as the africans do in africa.

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## douw

The only problem I can spot with that box is the missing quality control sticker on the inside of the lid. Other than that it looks pretty much like most other installations. :Wink: 

Do you think the installer will give you the drawings for that one?

But seriously though. We can't have that attitude forever. If the system breaks down completely and everyone realizes that there are no consequences in transgressing, your master electrician card won't be worth much to you. I can claim to be a master electrician too and take your jobs for half the price you quote from you, cut corners everywhere to save time, use substandard (read: wrong) materials, employ casuals at R40 a day, and still make more money than you. I pay someone else to issue the COC and dissapear. The crap circuit breakers I bought in marrabbastad only blows up two years later which fries that nice and thin surfix I plastered right into the wall, they go after the COC issuer who don't know where to find me anymore. By that time I made enough money to disappear into the next industry, which is just as unpoliced, and make some more money.

The point is that we as consumers and providers need to inform ourselfs and ensure quality from the bottom up. The situation as it is now hurts mainly the comsumer, but eventualy the industry will suffer also. This goes for the country as a whole, as all spheres are equaly affected by this.

But what to do? Clearly we won't be able to rely on the powers that be to resolve this any time soon. They are pretty good at legislation but dismal at enforcement, and I don't think that will ever change. I also don't think the model of complete government control is optimal anyway.

Industry self regulation will always be better. It is more efficient; the people involved are knowledgeable in their field, and if it is private organisations doing the regulation they have to survive fanancially. *Healty compitition is the harshest umpire.*

But I digress. Time for a new thread?

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Dave A (10-Jan-10)

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## Jacques#1

I'll tell you what the problem is......

Everyone is an electrician!!!!!!!! 

An example:  I quoted a guy a few years back R200 to connect his stove for him (travelling to PTA from Kempton).  This is really a good price as I could hear he is an elderly chap, and my fuel would cost me R?? (at the time).  He said I am crazy as it is simply pushing three wires into a connector block with a piece of pipe etc..... he'll rather do it himself.

A better example?  A guy hires backyard electricians do rewire his house.  Why? Because they are *cheaper*, and they install rubbish.  For the next year after the installation I had to go back to sort problems out.  I would assist him with the specific problem ONLY, not allowed to touch anything else,  this would cost him money.  And as luck would have, after a period of time the next item/poor workmanship packed up.

Thing is, if you talk to guys they'll tell you that they do their own work, they don't need any electrician to connect a few simple wires, and if they really need a guy they get one off the street as he is dirt cheap.  Once they move house and ask for a COC and get a quote for R20k+ because the entire installation is rubbish, they want to argue, kick and scream!!  They then get the one or two bad apples you guys are referring to who sit in their bakkies and write the COC and the problem moves on.  The next owner thinks all electricians are bad.

Sorry for carrying on, sore point, I am an electrician, but not one of "these electricians" people refer to. If you buy scrap expect scrap........and ask the guy for some reference on his qualification if you want, if it meant I can get more work, I would print mine on T-shirts!!!!

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## Dave A

> I'll tell you what the problem is......
> 
> Everyone is an electrician!!!!!!!!


You're right, but you're only half-way there. The real problem is the *real* electrician can't compete with the so-called "electrician." The regulatory framework that has been put in place (officially to ensure quality but more realistically supported as a form of protectionism) is ultimately handicapping the legal contractor.

For example, 20%+ of payroll goes to "indirect benefits" as a result of the regulatory environment of the electrical contracting industry that these cowboys aren't paying. This is serious, as that extra labour cost cascades into every activity that falls under unbillable hours too. And you can only recover it by increasing your labour rate and material mark-up. By the time you're finished, the legit operator is probably functioning at a 30% disadvantage.

I've heard electrician after electrian (real ones) bemoaning that plumbers make more than electricians. This is the main reason why! Plumbers aren't competing against the "unqualified" and incompetent with a major financial millstone around their necks.

And for the most part consumers don't care about your papers and qualifications, or whether your employees are on a pension plan. As long as the electricity flows and everything works, in their eyes there's nothing wrong with the installation.

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## Jacques#1

That also makes sense.....

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## murdock

every labourer i employ is an electrician or so they say they are and wants to be paid accordingly...top rates...real qualification are hard to come by...copies of certificates are as bad as the work they do...

the one fellas certificates had all the same dates...borders where exactly the same which made me curious.

all i do is ask them to do a ka rating calculation for a single phase complex...eeeeish...never done that before...only tube and wiring and dbs...and as far as they are concerned thats makes them qualified electricians.

even a white youngster...so called electrician i employed was fired within a couple of weeks...he must have worked in his time supervising electrical cable pulling gangs...he was clueless when it came to practical work.

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## 123

Hi Guys, glad i found this thread. Does this mean that a qualified electrician (1987) like myself are not allowed to do electrical work at any installation? Eg am I allowed to go out to a customer and do faultfinding on the control circuit of his star delta starter? Or install a new 4core cable?

As I read this EIR2009 I guess I am not allowed to do any electrical work, although I am a qualified electrician?

ps I only registered as a SPT to issue the odd Coc on residential houses. But now it seems to me that I am not allowed to work as an electrician, which is the only trade I have. Or does my trade means zero at this stage?

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## murdock

dont worry 123...i have been in this electrical industry for 27 years and i am just as confused...where you are lucky is there is no control over the industry so you can do what ever blows your hair back...just dont get caught...which is highly unlikely because the dept of labour doesnt have any mapower to carry out inspection so they have handed the resposibility over to the AIA who from my little experience with them are just as crooked as the contractors themselves...and in kzn there isnt even an AIA so they hand over the resposiblily to brian bilton form the eca...who look after the interest of the contractor so you would be ok...and brians attitude seems to be...what is all the fuss about from the last report i handed to him.

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123 (17-Mar-10)

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## 123

Spoke to a guy Pieter Loubscher at DOL, 012 309 4682 (Direct Line).

He told me that although I am a qualified electrician, I am not allowed to work on anything else except single phase systems :Confused: , I have to work under supervision of an IE or MIE for anything else.

Apparently the term "qualified electrician" tested and passed at Olifantsfontein means nothing. The fact that I have been tested, and passed on, three phase systems, installation work, wiring and faultfinding, transformers (also three phase) means buckall.

As there is now way I will work "under" anyone except my customer, he basically denied me the right to work for myself and told me that what I am doing (to work) is illegal.

I cannot wait to see when this will end up in a constitutional court or something. You cannot create a law that is unconstitutional and the same law ensures that if i am a qualified electrician, i can do electrical work.

or am i missing something?

By the way, i was told exactly the same story by the ECB, and they even quoted the IER2009.

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## murdock

you must be taking about the new law everyone is talking about where you have to monitor the installation from day one otherwise you are not allowed to sign it over...honestly do you think they wll ever be able to enforce this law...lets get real.

dave will have to close his electrical side of his bussines down because how on this earth will you be able to do COC when the property is sold if you didnt monitor the installation.

the next problem is where do they plan on finding all these IE and MIE to monitor all the contruction work from the beginning.

they dont have the manpower to monitor electrical industry....so who is gona police it the AIA...they dont even have a registered AIA in KZN.

what they gona do drop the pass rate to 10 % so that more people can become MIEs?

this industry just gets more pathetic by the day  :Headbutt: 

i would like to see a response from Pieter  Loubsher how they plan on moving forward with this industry.

I spoke to chris greager and even he feel helpless and he is the national director for the ECA  SA.

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123 (17-Mar-10)

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## Jacques#1

> Spoke to a guy Pieter Loubscher at DOL, 012 309 4682 (Direct Line).
> 
> He told me that although I am a qualified electrician, I am not allowed to work on anything else except single phase systems, I have to work under supervision of an IE or MIE for anything else.


I thnk he may have misunderstood you.  If you are a qualified electrician who qualified @ Olifants tested on 3 phase then you are not a single phase tester, but an "installation" electrician (IE)......you can work on 3 phase just not on hazardous areas (MIE), and you can monitor a single phase tester.

Maybe I am missing something reading these threads, but as far as I know, you register at the ECB as an electrical contractor and thats it.  A contractor must be monitored by someone who is a specialist in his field which would be the qualified guy...i.e. you.  You are now 100% legal.  To issue a COC you register at the ECB as an installation electrician?? and thats it?  What did I miss..... :Confused:

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## Jacques#1

> you must be taking about the new law everyone is talking about where you have to monitor the installation from day one otherwise you are not allowed to sign it over...honestly do you think they wll ever be able to enforce this law...lets get real.


I agree with you thats gonna be a headache, but I try to understand where they are coming from.  I did fault finding on a site a while back which was wired by a guy (qualified) with his team.  I tried to figure out why the lights was not working, and.........they never pulled the wire lying in the roof on top of the db down the conduit and wired it up.  I was not surprised.

I disagree with them that they require you to be on site 100% of the time.  Doing conduit or wiring work labourers/semi skilled guys can still mess up, but they won't endanger someones life.  As long as the electrician (the qualified guy) does all the connections and or inspects the connections before the boxes are closed up.  You can tell if the job is right by looking at the connections....wire size, colour, wires vs. installed equipment etc.

The OHS Act supercedes any other acts where safety is concerned.  In the OHS ACT you can make someone else i.e. the qualified electrician responsible for what happens on site (given you follow the rules :Smile: )

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## 123

> ps I only registered as a SPT to issue the odd Coc on residential houses. But now it seems to me that I am not allowed to work as an electrician, which is the only trade I have. Or does my trade means zero at this stage?


Hi Jacques, no I am registered as a SPT at the DOL/ECB, not as an IE or MIE. I wrote the installation rules, and passed, in 1987.

One of the requirements for registering as an IE at the DOL in 2002 was the exam results of papers 1 & 2. 15 Years passed at the time when I requested my exam results from FET College. It is now 2010. Nothing.

Which left only one option open, SPT, which I did. (2002).

Which brings me to my original problem: I am not allowed to *work* on anything else except single phase installations, according to DOL.

God knows what will be the case if I was not registered as an SPT! I would not be legally allowed to work at all! I was under the impression that if you are a qualified electrician with trade test papers, you are legally allowed to work on electricity? _(Artikel  13(12) van die Wet op Mannekrag Opleiding, 1981)_

In conclusion, I (and thousands more) have effectively been regulated out of a job, a livelihood, a means to provide for my family, which, if tested in a court, could face some serious challenges i would imagine.

Regards-Christo

pse excuse the english-i am dutchman.

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## murdock

qualifying at olifants as an electrician makes you an electrician...not a spt or IE or MIE

which means you can be employed by a registered company and work on any electrical  installation...provided the installation is designed an monitored and inspected  by the correctly qualified person.

becoming a spt means you can then start a bussiness and register with the ecb as a spt and carry out work and test single phase installations.

them if you decide to become an IE...you need to make sure all the requirements to become an IE are completed sent into the DOL and if they accept your aplication...they will send you notification with a certificate...you can then register with the ecb as an IE...you can then... if self employed start doing work and inspections on 3 phase systems.

then lastly to the same applies for an MIE...do all the requirements to become an MIE once approved...you can then register with the ecb and work on and carry out inspections.

i am sitting with a problem at the moment where the factory electrician carrys out all installation work and fault finding...i have since found out that he is not an electrician but a millwright...my problem is not the fault finding its the installation work...he hasnt a clue on electrical design and selection of equipment or cabling...but because there is nobody to check up on him he can do whatever he wants...but heres the catch and i dont think the company owner knows this...if there is an accident and someone is injured and found that there was negligance on the part of the electrician who is not suppose to be doing what he is doing the owner becomes liable for everything and will be held accountable...not the millwright...becuase he has not taken the correct precautions to ensure that the correctly qulaified people carry out the work he becomes guilty...unless the millwright lied about his qualifications and told him he is an IE...all the work they do is 3 phase...they have asked me to sign over work in the building...

i decided to rather walk away...unless they are prepared to spend the money and do a design check on the entire installtion...otherwise what happens when something goes wrong...everyone points the finger at me and says "BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER WHY DIDNT YOU TELL US ABOUT ALL THESE PROBLEMS" words still echoing in my head...thrown at me on a previous occassion...i unfortunatley have been burnt with this before....once burnt twice shy...unfortunatley my MIE status puts the food on the table for my family...without it are they gona feed me...yeah right.

a big factory like that should at least have a design engineer on a part time basis or as a consultanting engineer overseeing new machines being installed etc...there are boilers...chemicals you name it.

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## murdock

passing the installation rules exam doesnt qualify you as an IE...there are various other requirements which need to be done before you can apply to become an IE as mentioned on this website in other threads.

i have mate who has a similar problem because he has been working in the aircon game for the past 20 years and now the DOL have clamped down on him to register because they care doing the elctrical installtion part of the aircon installtion...he did his IE exam but never follwed through.

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123 (18-Mar-10)

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## Dave A

I've been led to understand the key phrase in this is "under the general supervision" and this does not imply continuous "on-site supervision".



> Apparently the term "qualified electrician" tested and passed at Olifantsfontein means nothing. The fact that I have been tested, and passed on, three phase systems, installation work, wiring and faultfinding, transformers (also three phase) means buckall.


Not quite - you can use it to qualify to sit the IE exam.




> As there is now way I will work "under" anyone except my customer, he basically denied me the right to work for myself and told me that what I am doing (to work) is illegal.


I've always been amazed at how the crowd that says "the law is preventing me from earning a living" change their tune when they actually meet the requirements of the law. It doesn't take long before the very same people are going "the law isn't being applied strictly enough"  :Stick Out Tongue: 

I'm not trying to knock anyone by saying that - it's just that the situation is not unique to the electrical contracting industry; I've seen it time and time again in the pest control industry too. I've come to accept that's it's just human nature and the real problem is that people don't know what they don't know - until they've been exposed to it.

Ultimately, you have to ask whether the law is *appropriate*, and I'd like to quietly suggest you might well realise the law *is* appropriate once you've got your IE ticket under your belt.

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123 (24-Mar-10)

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## 123

> "I've always been amazed at how the crowd that says "the law is preventing me from earning a living" change their tune when they actually meet the requirements of the law. It doesn't take long before the very same people are going "the law isn't being applied strictly enough"


True words spoken truthfully.




> Ultimately, you have to ask whether the law is appropriate, and I'd like to quietly suggest you might well realise the law is appropriate once you've got your IE ticket under your belt.


Thing is, I am on the wrong side of forty, staring 50 smack in the face  :Big Grin: 
I cannot see myself attending classes and writing exams at this stage.  :Stick Out Tongue:  and still support my family at the same time. (No work, No Food).




> which means you can be employed by a registered company and work on any electrical installation...provided the installation is designed an monitored and inspected by the correctly qualified person.


That is exactly what I would like to see being tested in a court. The "WORK" part of the equation. The regulations _should_ be in place to ensure that the WORK that was done is according to SANS 10142-1. _The correctly accredited person who inspects_ the job should ensure that the work was done according to such standards. Who is not necessarily the person who has done the job. Many inspections which is done is on work done, NOT by the person inspecting it, but he still issues a CoC if all is according to sans 10142.

So, if I understand it correctly, the accredited person cannot issue a CoC because he did not do, or supervise (control) *all* the work done on the installation! So what now? You get called out to issue a CoC on an installation, you did not do the work yourself or controlled/supervised the person who did it, how on earth can you legally issue the CoC?

The _"only registered persons can work on an installation"_ part will put many people out of a job, something they might not take too quietly. :Smile:

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## Dave A

There is a difference between *doing* all the work and all the work being done under the general supervision...



> Thing is, I am on the wrong side of forty, staring 50 smack in the face


I don't understand the problem. The brain doesn't normally go until much later  :Wink: 

Like so many things, when the motivation is there the obstacles disappear.

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## Jacques#1

The COC allows for the guy who specified the work, tested the work, the main contracting company who hired the guy to test the work, did the work, bought the spares etc.....

If you didn't do the actual installation or design/spec the job, than those sections of the COC remains blank, you just do an honest test on the installation to make sure its safe.  So, the COC allows you not to have done the work, just test it after the fact.

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## Dave A

Should an electricity supplier be connecting a new installation based on a "test only" COC?  :Whistling:

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## Jacques#1

Well.......I guess it depends who wrote the COC?

I open every socket outlet, every light switch, every joint box, I do climb in the roof and inspect all the joints/geyser hookup/isolator, open the DB and do insulation test, loop impedence, PSCC, resistance test, continuity, E/L test etc............

I Fill in a checksheet I made that checks all the major points in the book, including things like colour coding, wire to CB sizing, labelling etc.

On this basis I would say that the guy who does the test knows the installation (apart from hidden things), and the supplier could most probably, plus minus, almost, connect on this basis  :Stick Out Tongue: .

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## Jacques#1

you asked a retorical question right?.......I missed it :Confused:

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## 123

> So that leaves the "control" can of worms Dave mentioned above.  That is what is not defined clearly in the regs. and that is what needs to be clarified, regardless of current convention.


The "general control" clause as published in the government gazette, 6 March 2009 is actually very clear on that issue: "in relation to electrical installation work that is being carried out,* includes instruction, guidance and supervision in respect of that work*."

Not really a grey area, if you sign off a CoC and did not instruct, guide and supervise (the wording of the clause is "includes"), you cannot legally sign off a coc, and if it can be proven that you have signed off a coc and not exercised the "general control" required, that coc is invalid.

Fitting a piece of conduit and saddles unfortunately is installation work, so is fitting a gland to an inspection box. If it was not supervised, you would be breaking the law.

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## Jacques#1

> The "general control" clause as published in the government gazette, 6 March 2009 is actually very clear on that issue: "in relation to electrical installation work that is being carried out,* includes instruction, guidance and supervision in respect of that work*."


I would argue this, it is still grey...  Instructions is an "order"/"request"/"demand" that you make to someone and they must respond in a form i.e. doing work, an instruction can even be a written document.

Guidance....if you show up every minutes or so, check what they've done, show them how to correct the mistake and see them do it right, you have supervised as well as taught/guided.  If a person is "untrainable", then they must do work that is repetitive only, with minimal possibility for error.

Supervision can be any given time or level.  If you return to find something wrong, then instruct and guide the labourers how to do it right, and it is done right there and then, you have supervised.

Think of an operator on a hazardous installation, busy working on a piece of machinery (I use this example seeing I were in the explosive manufacturing business for 8 years).  He merely has a std.8 /9 /10 certificate.  He is working on a machine that is so hazardous the smallest mistake will take himself, others and the building out.  The explosives act calls for training, guidance, supervision etc.  If you constantly stand and monitor this person, you are no longer a supervisor, rather an operator, as you are constantly at his place of work, helping and assisting him.  This being said, why do you keep him on then, let him go and do the work yourself.....once all the contractors do that, and 10 000 labourers are out of work, you'll see a clearer definition...

A new guy, yes he needs 100% supervision.  When he learns more 80% and so on.  As long as you inspect all the work done and correct it, I believe you supervised what was needed.

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## 123

Exactly my point. General Control.

Example: If you do an inspection on an *existing* installation, and found that part to comply with clause 5, general safety principles, and the extensions or alterations effected complies with sans1014-1, how does the law make it possible to issue a coc in terms of reg. 9. (2) (c)?

No _general control_ was exercised on the extensions or alterations of the said installation. It was _extended or altered before_ you inspected the installation by someone you don't even know.

In my opinion you can only issue a coc according to reg 9. (2) (b). The only clause which excludes the _"general control"_. But then you would have to exclude all alterations and extensions on the installation, which defies the purpose of the coc.

If a CoC is issued as per reg. 9. (2) (a) or (c) on an existing installation, the letter of the law would invalidate that CoC. :Confused: 

Except if you remove all alterations and extensions and re-install them under your general control... ;-)

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## Jacques#1

I don't understand.....Section 5 on the coc is all I worry about as far as new and existing installation goes...  if its an existing house i fill in the "who did the test bit" sec 5.4.  If i fixed faults and replaced some items 5.2 material spec and 5.4 test, where material spec drops down further referring to section 3, where you specify "house- new stove cable, new light cable in bedroom etc...."  That is it.  In all these sections they talk about to the best of your knowledge.  As far as the best of my knowledge goes I was the reasonable man, I'll sleep well tonight because I don't take chances, and I will stand in court if I have to.  The COC to my knowledge is a summary of the law, and a legal contract.  If that piece of document says "to the best of your knowledge" then to hell with any other documents :Confused:

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## 123

Apologies, I was referring to clause 5 in the new sans10142-1, which contains the_ general safety principles_ applicable to electrical installations.

Which is one of the _three types_ of coc's you can specify on the new coc (not test report), which reads as follows:

Issuing of certificate of compliance
9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that

*(a)* a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation  5(1) and was carried out under his or her *general control*; *or*

*(b)* an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; *or*

*(c)* an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that *(i)* the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, *and*
*(ii)* the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her *general control*.

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## Dave A

Next snag - knowing when any particular part of an electrical installation was added.

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## 123

> Next snag - knowing when any particular part of an electrical installation was added.


 :Stick Out Tongue:  :Cool:   ...actually that is soooo easy... just get GEIA involved and they'll inspect the complete installation as a "new" installation. :Big Grin: 

Bugger the law, they make the law (and regulations) up on the go.

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## Jacques#1

I see what you are saying, theres a line missing for "the installation existed, but no COC is available.....if reperations was made, it was made under my general supervision"

I just use the new installation bit, and see the under my control as being the repairs and the test (of which I am 100% on site anyway).....they did not leave an additional option so I make due?

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123 (16-Apr-10)

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