# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Municipal Business Tax

## AmithS

I am sure most of you have seen this by now!!!!  :Mad: 

So I am now supposed to (if they pass this) pay an extra tax for operating my fast food store in Pretoria CBD??????????

I just got this store to start breaking even recently then I got hit with the electricity increase and so on and so on....

What the hell is going on in this country even if this does not get passed how in the #### do you even come up with #### like this... :Confused:

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## AmithS

just to add,

I already pay higher than normal rent, electricity, water, rates, etc... just because it is the Pretoria CBD as compared to other area's so in turn the municipality is already getting more than others and now they want even more????

Either tons more businesses close down adding to the governments employment targets of having more people unemployed or businesses slowly start moving out the main metros and eventually they will lose more income as the business activity in the main metros die off...

Generating more income is not the solution right now, they need to learn how to manage what they have properly first.....

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## Dave A

> I am sure most of you have seen this by now!!!!


Not I.

Applicable to Pretoria CBD only?

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## Justloadit

Well the only other solution is to increase your selling price.
If every one is not making a profit, moving out of the city is not going to solve the problem, as the services are still required with in the CBD, so customers will have to pay more to get the same stuff.

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## AmithS

According to the article from the paper yesterday, 

eThekwini, Johannesburg, Nelson Mandela Bay, Ekurhuleni and Cape Town.

I was so upset just reading the article I forgot to even check exactly which ones.

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## AmithS

Hi Dave,

Check this link out,

http://www.iol.co.za/business/busine...ness-1.1129385

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## wynn

I've got an idea!
Why don't they get their house in order, get their corruption under control (EL has two of the three billion budget missing) stop paying councilors as if they were company directors (which they are not) ditch the perks councilors get cars and all, fire the useless expensive municipal staff who do nothing instead of the job they are paid for and collect all the outstanding property taxes Rbillions countrywide that is owed to every municipality then they won't have to screw the businessman again.

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## daveob

> I've got an idea!
> Why don't they get their house in order, get their corruption under control (EL has two of the three billion budget missing) stop paying councilors as if they were company directors (which they are not) ditch the perks councilors get cars and all, fire the useless expensive municipal staff who do nothing instead of the job they are paid for and collect all the outstanding property taxes Rbillions countrywide that is owed to every municipality then they won't have to screw the businessman again.


They are realists, not retards.

They know damn well that they stand a much better chance of getting the businesses to cough up. All that other stuff you mention is, well, just too hard or impossible to do.

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## AndyD

Yep,another in a long line of soft-target taxes.

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## mother

> They are realists, not retards.


Are you absolutely 100% sure?

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## Dave A

I second Wynn  :Mad: 

and Mother  :Rofl: 




> If approved by the minister, the local tax on business will be the only tax instrument – besides property tax – municipalities have after the scrapping of regional service council levies in 2006. 
> 
> Taxes on property, municipalities complain, are heavily constrained by the Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs Department’s insistence on ensuring consistency nationally.


As a motivation that sounds really good, particularly if you don't mention *all the other revenue streams* of the metros.

At least they concede one of their great failings... Collection!



> The tax, which metros were proposing be collected by the SA Revenue Service, could either be a tax on...

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## Blurock

With Government spending more and more, they had to think of new revenue streams. What did you expect? Who is paying for their lavish lifestyles? :Rant1:

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## Dave A

A pretty interesting article here - Gordhan condemns rates boycotts.

This is pretty much on the money -




> He said given the fiscal constraints faced by the government, political and administrative leaders had to do more to cut down on "improper" procurement practices and on fraud and corruption.
> 
> "There is no doubt much more could be done in this area than is being done," he said.
> 
>  The Treasury "looked forward" to working with the auditor general and accountant general on putting "more stringent requirements in place" and getting better co-operation from officials and political leaders to ensure that taxpayers and ratepayers money was not "frittered away" without proper justification.
> 
>  Municipalities, he said, had to do more to ensure they took decisions that ensured better quality spending,
> 
>  "Municipalities need to focus on delivering services, on building their capacity, on building economic infrastructure, on investing the right amount in capital infrastructure and on both maintenance on infrastructure and the development of new infrastructure."
> ...


But I found this bit rather out of touch with reality -




> He said many of the issues ratepayers had with their municipalities could be resolved "the South African way".
> 
>  "We sit around the table, we say what our challenges are and we find practical solutions to them. Creating tension and antagonism doesn't help."


Ja, right!  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## BusFact

I'm with you on that. The comment about chatting to municipalities and resolving issues is pure fantasy. I challenge him to come along with me in an effort to chat to Joburg. After nearly a year, all I have is a still unresolved issue and an impressive collection of reference numbers from their call centre.

The municiplities have created the "tension and antagonism" themselves.

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## Blurock

The "tension and antagonism" stems from incompetence. So much money taxpayers is wasted on unnecessary court cases due to the incompetence or lack of ownership by municipal officials. It's a disgrace. :Crazy:

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## Pap_sak

I am sure Vavi will have lots to say if it went through - although I don't agree with everything he has to say, I think he is quite a level headed bloke and this would impact on jobs especially for marginal businesses. We are actually quite lucky in SA compared to the UK regarding business rents/rates and terms.

Generally in the UK:

Leases are generally for a minimum of 5-10 years.
You pay rent every 3-6months instead of monthly
There is no 8-10% a year increase, you have a rent review every few years or so and rent can quite easily go up 30-50%
Business rate there are way high than residential - and imo are a joke (do they actually want jobs?)
The lease holder has to maintain the whole building at the owners say so, not just the inside as in SA
You need a couple of lawyers just to sign a lease.

Give me the SA way any day of the week....

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## Ann Williams

Government's latest little idea is to consider increasing business taxes in the 8 largest municipalities as a means of getting more towards the infrastructure spend that they are trying to raise....

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## Dave A

I've been wondering...

What would business be prepared to do as protest action against something that they really objected to?

Unions would go on strike and stage a protest march (at the very least). But I can't see business resorting to a lockout - or a protest march.

Any ideas?

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## AndyD

I suspect you've just answered any question on why a new tax would be aimed at businesses rather than personal income tax or VAT for example. Business, especially millions of small businesses have little lobbying power and even less liquid finances they could afford to throw at protesting so they're a soft target.

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## deetee

A question no-one seems to be raising, is:  what about all the "informal trading sector" businesses in these affected areas, the taxis, the fruit & veg vendors on the pavements etc. etc., all the purely cash based business ventures with no taxation of ANY sort, how will the new tax be implemented for this sector??

I am (or rather was) in the process of setting up business, doing the whole registration & VAT etc. thing.  Well this process has now come to a very sudden halt.  I will now shift my Banking to _My Back Pocket Inc._ (*not* a registered financial services provider!!), and work from home!!

I think it is wise for many of the smaller business owners to strongly consider reverting to the age old "mom & pops" format of business, keep it small and keep it yours, and KEEP IT UNREGISTERED!!

Complacency is the death of civilization!!

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## Blurock

> I've been wondering...
> 
> What would business be prepared to do as protest action against something that they really objected to?
> 
> Unions would go on strike and stage a protest march (at the very least). But I can't see business resorting to a lockout - or a protest march.
> 
> Any ideas?


Join your local Chamber of Commerce. Businesses should use forums and business bodies to lobby for their rights. Chambers also operate on a national basis and should use their collective powers to fight corruption and wasteful expenditure, assist in formulating Govt policies and the like.

Considering the nearly R400 million that will be spent on upgrading Zuma's residences and offices, the increasing billions of wasteful and unaccounted expenditure by the state, businesses and taxpayers are in for a very very hard time ahead. :Detective: 

Mr Moleketsi Mbeki has predicted that the Govt will run out of money by 2020 as it will no longer be able to sustain all the grants, free housing, free water, free electricity and other social benefits to its supporters. At the rate that Government is stealing, the proverbial s#!t will hit the fan by 2013. :Yikes:

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## Dave A

> Join your local Chamber of Commerce. Businesses should use forums and business bodies to lobby for their rights. Chambers also operate on a national basis and should use their collective powers to fight corruption and wasteful expenditure, assist in formulating Govt policies and the like.


Except all this "abuse" has been happening while these structures are in place and lobbying  :Stick Out Tongue: 

So what else can be done to be taken more seriously?
Because from what I'm seeing, lobbying isn't doing it.

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## Blurock

Maybe the chamber management and business leaders are too cosy with Government in order to promote their own interests and not the interests of the members. There seems to be a general attitude of "what's in it for me, and not what I can do for my country". :Blushing:

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