# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Positioning of gas stoves relative to electrical equipment

## Sparks

Hi. Where will I find regs pertaining to the positioning of gas stoves relative to socket outlets, isolators etc... The unit has an electric oven so it needs to be plugged in. The gas installer has demanded that the socket outlet in close proximity be blanked off and that the oven be fitted with a stove coupler to utilise the existing stove circuit. The existing stove isolator is however the exact same distance from the nearest flame as the socket outlet he is demanding be blanked off.
I have decided to blank both socket outlet and isolator off. I will be replacing the stove coupler with a socket outlet and downgrading the 40A CB to a 20A. The oven draws 16A.
I would still like to know where to get the regs applicable.

----------


## Dave A

The answer is SANS 10087-1 (2013 edition) for domestic installations.

Here are the relevant diagrams:

Typical installation by means of a flexible hose and solid pipe -


Typical installation for gas cylinder directly connected to hob by means of a flexible hose -

----------

AndyD (05-Apr-17), Sparks (01-Apr-17)

----------


## Sparks

Thank you Dave. Does this also apply to a free standing gas hob/electric oven unit which is not enclosed?
I am also wondering about the (No electrical switch)in the cupboard below the hob.
Does that mean a gas hob may not be situated on top of an electric oven?

----------


## Dave A

> Does this also apply to a free standing gas hob/electric oven unit which is not enclosed?


 :Hmmm:  How is the gas supplied? Ordinarily a gas installation certificate isn't required for a free-standing unit as it isn't a fixture.




> I am also wondering about the (No electrical switch)in the cupboard below the hob.
> Does that mean a gas hob may not be situated on top of an electric oven?


As I understand it, the concern is for electrical items that cause a spark (no matter how minute) when operated as the spark is a potential ignition source for LP gas.

----------


## Sparks

It is a big free standing gas hob with electrical oven. The gas bottle is a 9kg which is for the moment standing next to it.
The company it was bought from insisted to the buyer that the gas bottle needs to have a cupboard fitted next to the oven and that the bottle be installed by their technician.
If the regulations regarding electrical equipment proximity are based on the proximity of sparks, how can a gas hob be manufactured and given SABS approval when it has an electric oven as part of the appliance with electrical switches within the proximity limits?  :Confused: 
If a free standing gas appliance is not subject to the regulations, on what grounds may a supplier insist that a registered installer connect the gas bottle and on what grounds may they insist that other existing electrical equipment be removed before the gas certificate is issued?

----------


## Dave A

> If a free standing gas appliance is not subject to the regulations, ...


For the sake of clarity I must point out that's not what I said. The regulations require a certificate of manufacture. It also places duties on various parties...

Here are the latest gazetted guidance notes to the Pressure Equipment Regulations for you to pick over.




> If the regulations regarding electrical equipment proximity are based on the proximity of sparks, how can a gas hob be manufactured and given SABS approval when it has an electric oven as part of the appliance with electrical switches within the proximity limits?


My wild* guess is the switches (or the switch area) has an appropriate IP rating.

*Not to be relied on in any way whatsoever.

----------


## Sparks

This I understand, my question pertains specifically to the installation of a free standing(portable) domestic gas fueled appliance in the kitchen.


Thank you. According to this refillable gas cylinders certificates are kept by the "owner of the cylinder". No reference is made to the actual appliance. 


This responsibility would lie with the manufacturer, however, at a glance it is obvious that the oven switch gear is not in a gas-proof enclosure. 


I fully agree that a safety standard for installation be complied with pertaining to fixed appliances, but when it comes to a free standing appliance there must be a clear indication of what is required. Where does the gas patio grill fit in? What about the gas heater? They are using the same 9kg gas cylinder to which the same pressure regulations apply.
When the cylinder is empty and needs replacing. Must it be tested for leaks again and be re-certified?

----------


## Dave A

Sparks, you should have edit permissions (for 24 hours) to fix your gremlins.

----------


## Sparks

Thanks Dave.

----------


## mygoggie

> Typical installation for gas cylinder directly connected to hob by means of a flexible hose -


Hmmm, Dave your statement might be misleading to the uninformed. A gas cylinder may not be directly connected to a hob with a flexible hose if it passes through a compartment divider. As per Figure 4, Note 1, you need a fixed (metal) bulkhead connector installed in the divider with a flexible hose connected on either side. In reality you need to do this: Gas cylinder > hose > bulkhead connector 1 > divider > bulkhead connector 2 > flexible house > hob. I prefer to see the use of a short length of gas certified copper pipe and brass barbed compression nipples instead of the two bulkhead connectors.

On your question as to gas hob + electric stove please read Section 9 and I quote:

_"9 Electrical equipment and other sources of ignition
Where electrical equipment is placed within the safety distance as specified in figures 3, 4 and 6
such equipment shall be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108.

Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
burner and potential point of gas release. Where it is necessary to install a gas hob together with an
electric oven, a three-point plug socket shall not be used to connect the electric oven. A proper
isolator switch shall be in place above the level of the hob and it shall have at least 200 mm
clearance from the hob.

No electrical connection shall be made below the hob. See figures 3 and 4 for further connections."_

My understanding of the above is the word switch means any isolator, plug or light switch and as long as these are not present you may install an electrical stove below the hob. Personally I would like to see the stove opening permanently ventilated to ensure any possible gas leaks run straight onto the floor and then hopefully to the required ventilation opening at floor level (if ever installed or the 6mm gap below the door frame created).

----------


## Dave A

> Hmmm, Dave your statement might be misleading to the uninformed.


I merely quote the Figure 4 diagram label direct from the SANS code as an intro to Figure 4  :Whistling:

----------


## mygoggie

> I merely quote the Figure 4 diagram label direct from the SANS code as an intro to Figure 4


NP, just wanted to highlight the fact that a flexible hose cannot run through a hole in the divider (still to see one that does not ;-) )

----------


## Sparks

> Hmmm, Dave your statement might be misleading to the uninformed. A gas cylinder may not be directly connected to a hob with a flexible hose if it passes through a compartment divider. As per Figure 4, Note 1, you need a fixed (metal) bulkhead connector installed in the divider with a flexible hose connected on either side. In reality you need to do this: Gas cylinder > hose > bulkhead connector 1 > divider > bulkhead connector 2 > flexible house > hob. I prefer to see the use of a short length of gas certified copper pipe and brass barbed compression nipples instead of the two bulkhead connectors.
> 
> On your question as to gas hob + electric stove please read Section 9 and I quote:
> 
> _"9 Electrical equipment and other sources of ignition
> Where electrical equipment is placed within the safety distance as specified in figures 3, 4 and 6
> such equipment shall be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108.
> 
> Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
> ...


Thank you, in light of this I will now insist that gas/electric combinations be connected by cooker plug or wired directly to the isolator(I have yet to see this)
Please confirm the height above a gas hob which may not have electrical equipment.
Is this applicable to free standing units as well?(self contained on its own feet, not in a cupboard)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ef1629fas...combo.pdn?dl=0

----------


## mygoggie

@Sparks, kindly print the PAINT file to a PDF as I cannot open it on my Mac

----------


## AndyD

Sparks image as Pdf and jpeg versions;

Free standing gaselectric combo.pdf

----------

mygoggie (14-Apr-17)

----------


## mygoggie

@Sparks,

I trust the following assists you. 

With a stand alone appliance and container, there is a minimum distance of 300mm required between your stove and cylinder. Refer to paragraph 5.2.2.5 and Figure 1 below.
_
5.2.2.5 Containers shall be located at least 300 mm away from a gas stove (see figure 1) unless
the container is protected from the heat of the stove in an approved manner_



With regards to the distance behind the appliance, it must be at least 50 mm as per paragraph 6.2.5 below. Having said that please take note of the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.8 and 6.2.9. I think these paragraph also answer your question regarding the vertical space above a hob (even if free standing). Basically you need to determine the distance above the hob where the material used will not reach a temperature of 150C where all the burners are burning at full gas flow with no utensils placed on such burners. In general a distance of 1900mm from FFL is the minimum practical as any normal person does not want to bump their head against something when cooking.

*"6.2.5 Appliances shall not be installed in small, confined spaces that are poorly ventilated. Gas
burners require an unrestricted supply of fresh air and when a cooking appliance is being built in,
the supply of fresh air for combustion shall not be impeded. Provision shall be made for any
accumulations of unburnt gas to disperse safely, and also for the free escape of products of
combustion. Where gas appliances that require back ventilation are installed against a wall, there
shall be a gap of at least 50 mm between the appliance and the wall."*

_"6.2.8 Appliances shall be so sited in a room that there is no danger that they could set fire to
furnishings (for example, a gas stove shall not be positioned immediately below a combustible shelf
or in a position where curtains could be near its cooking top)."_

_"6.2.9 Where combustible or ignitable material near an appliance is liable to attain ignition
temperature or to be exposed to heat damage, provision shall be made to protect such material.

The material can be protected by mounting an insulating non-combustible material between the
appliance and the combustible material so as to provide an air space of width at least 15 mm.
Where built-in kitchen equipment is used, the surfaces of adjacent structures in contact with an
appliance shall be of materials that will not deteriorate at temperatures of up to 150 °C."_

----------


## Sparks

Thank you for all the replies, I appreciate everyone's time and effort.

----------

mygoggie (19-Apr-17)

----------


## montronic

Hi every one.

I just came across this thread, and would like your input, regarding the installation of my Stove. The Stove is also an Electric Oven with Gas for cooking.
My plan is to install the oven free standing with my gas bottles on the outside of the building and the stove plug is situated directly behind the stove. 
I have include a jpeg of the layout, including a few dimensions. 

On the left of the stove is a fridge and on the right of the stove is a grocery cupboard. Both are approximately 700mm form the stove.
The isolator is situated 400 (y) by 600 (x) away from the stove.

Do you think I have left enough of a gap between everything?


Thanks

----------


## Sparks

From the answers received to my query you are good to go.

----------


## Dave A

> ... and the stove plug is situated directly behind the stove.


I'd suggest it's placed above the level of the hob and at least 200mm off to the side.

----------


## ians

sitting with some of these issues at the moment...it pays to do a search  :Wink: 

Where do you connect the igniter plug...cut the plug off and connect to the same cable as the electric oven? via the stove isolator or do you fit an additional plug below the counter.

Can you have the outlet from the isolator behind the gas bottle? 

The reason i ask...this seems to be common practice.

----------

