# General Business Category > Technology Forum >  Apple - Some advice please

## HR Solutions

My Laptop is starting to get old.  Quite a large one and heavy to lug around.  Also starting to give one or two hassles.  I have always believed in trying to "keep up" with technology otherwise you do fall behind and things are not compatible anymore, new printers don't work because of "issues"

So my question is - Do I look at the Mac laptop - I think its the air or the pro or do I go for another HP normal computer ?
My problem is - I do NOT like the new Windows 8 !

I quite like the Mac's - they are lightweight and quite thin and I have an Apple phone and ipad.

Would it make sense to keep apple or is the Mac not really suited for business.

Any opinions/advice would be appreciated - thank you

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## adrianh

I know absolutely nothing about Apple but I love my Acer laptop and my Galaxy Tab. The Acer runs on Windows 7 Pro and although the networking sucks bigtime and Windows broke some common tools for no reason I am still satisfied with the machine. Windows 7 is like having a car that doesn't always want to shift into third...it annoy you but you live with it. If I had to choose between Windows 8 and Apple...I would probably go for Apple...Windows 8 is simply totally crap...its like a car without a dashboard and they put the gearbox in back to front...it just sucks....no matter what you do!

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## ians

I got an iphone 5, then realized what a big mistake i made, you ask why, because i didnt have any other apple devices. I then got an ipad. My opinion, if you have apple devices upgrading to newer models, not a bad idea, but unless you want to go the whole hog and move over to apple, rather dont buy 1 device. They are incompatible with other devices.

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## ians

By the way as you there is an app for everything, i dont see why you cant run your business from a mac

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## Neville Bailey

When my current Windows laptop comes to the end of its lifetime, I think that I may migrate to Mac. They are beautifully engineered machines that "just work". My only problem will be that Pastel only runs on Windows. But then I can simply use Parallels on the Mac and install a virtual copy of Windows on that, with Pastel installed there.

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## HR Solutions

Thanks for the input guys.  Neville - I seem to recall you bought a Galaxy phone a while back, so for you to say Mac laptop seems to indicate something.  You then will have to ditch the Galaxy and get the Iphone  :Smile:

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## Neville Bailey

> Neville - I seem to recall you bought a Galaxy phone a while back, so for you to say Mac laptop seems to indicate something.  You then will have to ditch the Galaxy and get the Iphone


Mac laptop is one thing - iPhone and iPad (which I have) is another thing. I love my Galaxy because of the Android OS, as I am a GMail guy through and through.

Hmmm, perhaps I should consider the Chrome Book rather?

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## pmbguy

Look... I am not a tec guy, but I spoke to my brother in law who works for IBM and he is a heavy tec guy. He said that going Apple is foolish. He reckons that apple is f*****. He said that he sold his apple stock a long time ago. According to him apple is a Raphus cucullatus. 


Given what his thoughts on the matter are, what are yours? Is Apple on the brink of something amazing, or just plain on the brink?

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## adrianh

Apple is on the verge of going down the iToilet. They brought the 5C and 5S out and nobody batted an eyelid. What heavy new innovation could they possibly come out with, curved screens are on the cards for Samsung, Google has the glass thing, nobody cares for Android wrist watches so what left....an iYoYo perhaps...for the arty in crowd?

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## HR Solutions

I'm looking at things at present.  Windows which is seriously kak vs Mac, which I enjoy on the iPad and phone ......

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## rom828

I run both Mac and Windows OS, have both iPad and Samsung devices for various reasons.  Personally I'd stay on the Windows platform, although I understand your dislike Win8.  If it's any help, you can downgrade to Win7 without buying a licence, although I guess it is step backwards for some(http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en-gb/l...de_rights.aspx).
I agree Apple devices have amazing build/design quality and yes everything 'just works' to some degree.  My Windows/Android set-up 'just works' too and even better than Apple set-up in my opinion.
What I dislike about the Apple environment is the iTunes gateway, I find it somewhat limiting and also the costs incurred to run Windows applications.  The Apple products are overpriced in RSA and de-value rapidly. 
Also if you want to "keep up" with technology, then Apple is going to keep you make sure you do that frequently, with their annual device upgrade and OS changes.  

I don't know this helps much but just my R0.02 worth.

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## ians

I just find that you are too restricted with apple. If you don't have all apple devices you might as well not have any.

The only reason I got an iphone was because of the Telkom deal and boy am I regretting it, the signal is absolute crap, battles to get signal never mind 3 G and it doesn't get LTE yet even though it works on MTN, but I can get LTE if I change my sim card over to the MTN one. They have only just repaired the sms issues with the new ios software, they gave me 10 free sms per month but you couldn't send or receive an sms because the ios system wouldn't work with Telkom.

I bought an ipad mini because they where the cheapest for what you got. Personally I  I doubt I would by any other apple products, unless I was a graphic designer or the like, which I am not.

One thing I can say for iphone, we watched the same movie clip on an iphone and a S4 from the same adsl router, the picture quality on the iphone is way better than the S4, I don't know if the S4 was setup correctly.

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## league_of_ordinary_men

> My Laptop is starting to get old.  Quite a large one and heavy to lug around.  Also starting to give one or two hassles.  I have always believed in trying to "keep up" with technology otherwise you do fall behind and things are not compatible anymore, new printers don't work because of "issues"
> 
> So my question is - Do I look at the Mac laptop - I think its the air or the pro or do I go for another HP normal computer ?
> My problem is - I do NOT like the new Windows 8 !
> 
> I quite like the Mac's - they are lightweight and quite thin and I have an Apple phone and ipad.
> 
> Would it make sense to keep apple or is the Mac not really suited for business.
> 
> Any opinions/advice would be appreciated - thank you


This is what you should get http://www.dell.com/za/p/inspiron-15-7537/pd a customer preordered it. It has better specs then the mac book pro and its a few grand cheaper with us and if you don't like windows 8 just down grade to windows 7.

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## irneb

I think we need a bit further info on what you actually want. Are you referring to the MacBook Pro or the Air? Also what programs are you using on your "WinBook"  :Wink:  at present? Are you set on OSX as your new operating system, or would you be willing to look at others too (excepting Win8)? The "just-works" idea only happens if you do everything through Apple, if you have a different phone, pad, media server / NAS, etc. you might not find it as easy as you did with Windows. 


Which programs can you not do without? This to check if they have non-windows versions or clones.Which programs are you using occasionally and/or might be accepting of alternatives?Is there any single program you simply "cannot" do without which you know to only work on windows? If so can you provide its recommended system requirements - since you'll need to run it through a virtual machine (such as Parallels / VirtualBox / VMWare) and this would take up some of the base CPU & RAM.Are you doing a lot of on-line stuff?Can you achieve your usage through cloud-based programs? E.g. Google+, Drive, Docs, etc.Are you using the laptop for video viewing? If so do you want to be able to insert DVD/BR discs, or play from a media server, or save onto an internal hard drive, or only via on-line streaming?Are you doing any graphics intensive stuff? E.g. photoshop, cad, 3d design and/or rendering?Do you "want" a touch screen or are you fine with a normal keyboard & touch-pad?

Only with these answers (and possibly some others) can we have any hope of giving you a decent suggestion.

If you want to do your own research on the non-Apple laptops, then this might be a good place to start: http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/

Especially since your choices at Apple ranges from old stock MacBook (R8500) to the Air (R11k), Pro (R15k), or Pro Retina (R16500). Unless you're thinking of the Mac (all-in-one-screen for R7500), or the mini (i.e. no keyboard or screen - R7500), though both these options don't really conform to being a portable device, never mind a laptop.

So for an Air you can look for anything up to around $1000 (to allow for import / local sales deduct about 30%-40% from that - unfortunately our government wants their protection-racket-money). But that type of price is already quite a good laptop (at least), some of them would even be surpassing the Air's specs. Same goes for the Pro.

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## HR Solutions

Hi irneb - thanks for your input.  I have not yet made a decision on a new laptop yet, what with all the festive season celebrations etc, but I would really like to look at it shortly.

I am able to find my way around a comp, feel I know quite a lot, but am by no means a comp bof.

I do have an apple Mini and do have an apple I phone 5, enjoy them and know my way around them, therefore was thinking of going the mac route.  I am looking for a laptop (no touch screen).  I cannot give you names at the mo, but like the thin lightweight look to them and being light it is easier to transport.  I do not like the new windows 8, therefore my looking at apple.

One of my most important programs on my current laptop is office, therefore I would need the same or compatible and it must be compatible with other computers in the office.  I do not want anyone having to "convert" anything.  I currently travel between JHB and CT quite extensively as we have a branch in both cities.  I link up to both systems either via wifi or network cable.  I do use an online package which I access at both branches.  I do not need graphics or media or music packages although I do download pics from my phone etc.

I understand that the mac laptop is pretty similar operating to the I pad mini.

Hope this helps you.  Is there a apple office system compatible ?

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## irneb

> I do not like the new windows 8, therefore my looking at apple.


I'm with you on this. IMO anything is better than W8, I'd even be willing to go back to XP/NT (perhaps not 98/95/Vista though). But W7 seems to work reasonably for me still, it does have issues, but from my testing (since around 2010-2011) no major insurmountable pains. I've not had extensive experience with OSX, though I have tried it out in a VM. Just found it a bit not to my liking, and I'm not willing to buy into the whole Apple train for the foreseeable future (only my own feeling). My favourite OS at the moment is KDE on Fedora/Ubuntu, second Gnome3 on Fedora, and then Unity (the default for Ubuntu). At present I'm trying to learn BSD as I've heard even better robustness & lightness as compared to most Linuxes, fortunately it's not that different as it also grew out of Unix, and actually it's the system on which OSX is built. Major difference is OSX uses Quartz as the graphics engine through which their Aqua desktop runs, while BSD uses XWindows with your choice of Desktop (Gnome/KDE/LXDE/Xfce/etc.) - same as Linux does.




> One of my most important programs on my current laptop is office, therefore I would need the same or compatible and it must be compatible with other computers in the office. I do not want anyone having to "convert" anything. I currently travel between JHB and CT quite extensively as we have a branch in both cities. I link up to both systems either via wifi or network cable.


You do get a Microsoft Office for MAC, but I've never used it so can't say much about compatibility. Though I'd guess it should be quite decent: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/m...5-a3506889b3ca

Only issue I can see is you might need to upgrade the PC MSO's to at least 2010 to ensure "perfect" compatibility and the 2011 for MAC. There's a noted issue (though minor) between 2007 & 2008. How well the two work on legacy files (i.e. DOC/XLS instead of Docx/Xlsx) is up for grabs - so if you need to send to people still using 2003 (or earlier) you might see some issues. I've even seen some hairy stuff between 2003 and 2007 (both for PC), so I'd not expect the MAC version to be any better.

Alternatively, you can even use Open Office or LibreOffice (my favourite) on OSX as well as nearly any other operating system you can shake a stick at. Though the Docx/Xlsx compatibility is not exactly "perfect", I have found that formatting gets corrupted in some cases - though I've never "lost data". The Doc/Xls compatibility (on the other hand) I've found to be better than MSO 2007 and later ... strange, but that's my experience.

Else you could opt for Office 360 - MS's on-line Office package, which they're trying to compete with Google. For any on-line stuff, you'd probably simply need a compatible browser. And I know that both Chrome and Firefox have Mac versions, if you find the built-in Safari browser not working as well as you'd like. Seems most people opt for Chrome/FF: http://web-browsers.findthebest.com/d/a/Mac-OS-X




> I understand that the mac laptop is pretty similar operating to the I pad mini.


Well, both run OSX. Whether the versions are the same is a different matter. But fortunately Apple is known for reasonable consistency of UI, so I'd not expect any major differences.

Other stuff you may need to consider: What about contacts and emails on your current laptop? You should check about how you're going to re-use them or import them into whatever new program(s) you're going to use. If you find the Lion mail app not sufficient, then you could always go with something like ThunderBird - both should be able to import your Outlook PST files (at least I know ThunderBird does this perfectly). Some discussion as to which is better: http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/wha...a-thunderbird/

For me, I'd go with ThunderBird as moving your mail between PC/Mac/Linux/BSD is a simple matter of copying the files. Lion is only available on Mac, though you do get an Outlook for Mac.




> I do not need graphics or media or music packages although I do download pics from my phone etc.


This greatly reduces the required specs. You thus don't need a dedicated graphics card - so the integrated Intel stuff should be sufficient.

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## irneb

> I cannot give you names at the mo, but like the thin lightweight look to them and being light it is easier to transport.  I do not like the new windows 8, therefore my looking at apple.


If this is your main reason for going to Apple, then remember that you can overwrite the W8 installation (if the laptop comes pre-installed with such). You can either choose W7 or a Linux. And thin-ness & light-weight isn't an Apple bastion:
http://www.lptps.com/best-ultra-thin-laptops-2013/

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## Upstairs

I use Ubuntu with a kde desktop. Playing with Linux Mint and I like it. I have not tried it, but I believe you can run windows in virtualbox or just load office on wine. I will never go back to Microsoft. Apple locks you in. They decide what you can use on your computer. With opensource you can run what you want. When using a laptop make sure you get a Linux compatible dongle. Get a live disc and play around. There is a learning curve. The latest distros make it easy to install software. A new kid on the block is Makulu Linux.

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## irneb

> I use Ubuntu with a kde desktop.


I'm with you there. I've used KDE on both Ubuntu and Fedora, tended to find Fedora working faster, but Ubuntu more compatible (at least with 64bit).

VM's work reasonably well. I've been using my old installations of Win98, WinNT, Win2k, WinXP and even W7 inside of the VM - they all work well (to a point - graphics is usually the issue as a VM introduces a software layer between the graphics card and the client OS so DirectX is not as performant as a "on-the-bone" installation).

One thing I've done before is use a hybrid setup: Dual boot of W7 and KDE/Fedora on the same PC, then install VirtualBox in both OS's and link to the other OS as a client VM. That way I can choose which OS to boot up and get the best performing graphics from while still being able to run the other OS in seamless mode so its programs "look" as if they're running locally. The reason I'm not doing it any-more is due to Windows' licensing: When I run W7 inside the VM it sees the hardware as a "new" PC thus wanting to re-register itself, then if I later dual boot direct into W7 it again wants to re-register.

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## HR Solutions

> If this is your main reason for going to Apple,


No, I have an apple pad mini and an I phone 5, therefore are an apple fan at the mo and the mac air 13inch is a very nice machine that is super thin.

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## irneb

> No, I have an apple pad mini and an I phone 5, therefore are an apple fan at the mo and the mac air 13inch is a very nice machine that is super thin.


Well, in that case it's probably a better idea to go fully Apple. Chances are that your other devices would work more easily in collaboration with it - though you'er going to have to also become an iTunes junkie  :Wink: . Cost-wise it's up to you: if you deem the ease of use between the devices is worth the extra cost for similar equipment, then cost is not to come into the equation.

Thus the only thing you need to ask yourself and try to find out: Software? Is it available or at least acceptable similar clone? Will it work with the files I already have? Will it work with others I have to collaborate with? This goes for all the software you use: word processor, spreadsheet, database, email, web, graphics (raster & vector), games (if any), and other specialist stuff like accounting packages as an example.

This last question is why I cannot get rid of Windows completely.

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## HR Solutions

My question is :  Why have they come out with a crap system like Windows 8 ??
Why should I have to "change" systems because of this.  I have spoken to a number of people who all hate it - from young to older people - and why should I have to wait till next year when I believe they are going to"revert" back to the old system and improve on that ?  And seen as it is time to upgrade the ole laptop - I am going to go the apple way which a lot of people have gone.

No more viruses - no more "just wait your computer is downloading the latest software" - I trust and hope that apple also downloads the latest software, but if it like the ipad it is a whole lot quicker !!

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## irneb

> My question is :  Why have they come out with a crap system like Windows 8 ??


I'm fully with you on that score: http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/wh...pening-windows

Actually I was fully on that point of view since they moved off XP. I was having issues with Mickeysoft since after DOS. IMO they started causing problems when they started doing too much to their OS ... they simply didn't (and still don't) know how to make something which "just works".




> No more viruses - no more "just wait your computer is downloading the latest software"


Don't fall for that hype. http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...s-free/258902/

No OS is "virus free". At best you can use an OS which is not mainstream, which means the bad guys don't target it as much ... until they do of course. I'd grant that Apple hasn't been riddled with as many viruses as Windows has, but they've also had many a security update (as has all Linuxes and Unixes and BSD's). Some aspects of other OS's I find makes them less prone to viruses, e.g. you have to enter the admin password every time you want to make some system changes (like installing new software) on a Linux - less chance of a web page simply installing some cr@pware. I hope Apple does something similar, though from my tests previously it was quite happy to run/install without asking too many questions.

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## irneb

> No more viruses





> No OS is "virus free".


Actually just seen this: http://betanews.com/2014/02/12/2013s...eater-threats/

I knew it would only be a matter of time before the malware thieves started targeting Linux in full earnest. Microsoft's been in their scope since the 80s, and Apple since the early to mid 2000's (Android also). But Linux was still not that much used, it seems the 1% to 2% these days means it's catching interest from these criminals.

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## twinscythe12332

I recently picked up a macbook pro through this fnb device deals where you pay monthly for 2 years.
a couple of points that may be relevant in your choices:
it carries a heft premium. if bang for buck is a concern for you (and your line of business doesn't require photo touching or video making) then I'd say you're better off with an equally well crafted windows machine. you can still find windows 7 downgrades here and there if windows 8.1 doesn't tickle your fancy.
a lot of the open developers and big names do get apps going on mac. if you have an obscure app that you love on windows though, it may not be available for mac.
no dvd drive, only wireless (you can get an ethernet adapter though).
bootcamp can be a bit of a pain when partitioning. sometimes not the most user friendly of experiences.
app store doesn't have much useful free stuff. you're going to he scouring the web as per usual for a lot of apps, most of which aren't signed like the app.store is.
some of the good stuff you will already know, but I'll go over it for posterity:
useable os overall.
the trackpad is amazing. multigesture support is a dream. I kid you not when I say this feature sold me.
full screen apps allow you to flick through open apps in an exciting way that windows just hasn't managed to get right.
your devices will talk to eachother. I've noticed that iphones in particular make it their mission in life to be as snobbish as possible when connecting to other phones and comps.
it's a system you're used to. that always counts as a big plus.

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## irneb

> I'd grant that Apple hasn't been riddled with as many viruses as Windows has, but they've also had many a security update (as has all Linuxes and Unixes and BSD's).


Just saw this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ap...pert-1.2549294

So iOS has a bug which allows a site to fake its identity through the "supposedly secure" SSL connection (this basically ensure the identity of the site). That means you'd have no way to know if your bank's website is not perhaps a look-alike based in Nigeria. At least they "fixed" it last Friday, but this shows that no OS is "secure" - even the mythical secure Apple doesn't exist (go figure).

 They're still only humans making these things, they make mistakes, they forget to think of every single atom which might just brush past their software. Chances are that every single OS out there still has a whole set of such flaws which even the crackers haven't (yet) become wise to.

My advise: forget about security as some measure of what OS / brand of PC you want. Or at worst turn it into a very minor comparison point. But if you do, then I'd actually prefer an OS which updates more regularly - again, most of them are about on-par here (between daily and monthly).

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## irneb

Here's another weird thing: The new OSX's Boot Camp will not allow a windows older than Win8. So if you want the Apple, but also want to run windows programs in native mode (i.e. not through Parallels / VMWare / VirtualBox) you'll have to live with the latest idiocy from MS.

http://www.infoworld.com/d/consumeri...n-apple-238557

Several possible reasons why Apple did this listed in there.

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## HR Solutions

Thanks inerb ................. I still haven't got a new laptop.  In fact I bought a new laptop for one of the girls down in Cape Town and got a Samsung - I then got it "downgraded" to Windows 7.  

A lot of what you say makes sense, but I also look at it and think how long do I want to keep it before upgrading it again ?  It seems like we are a nation that likes new things like getting a new cellphone every 22 months on a contract.  And sometimes it is also better to get new than repair because of costs etc. ....... I will get around to getting a new one still.  I'm looking at a motor bike at the mo, so cant have it all  :Wink:  , so have to way it up  :Smile:

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## Neville Bailey

> When my current Windows laptop comes to the end of its lifetime, I think that I may migrate to Mac. They are beautifully engineered machines that "just work". My only problem will be that Pastel only runs on Windows. But then I can simply use Parallels on the Mac and install a virtual copy of Windows on that, with Pastel installed there.


Well, I pulled the trigger last week and got myself the MacBook Pro 13" and I am a happy chappy.

It is fantastic for processing my photographs on Photoshop and Lightroom and I have Pastel running happily on Windows 7 in virtual mode (using Parallels).

The machine is so portable, slim and beautifully engineered - quite sexy!

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## HR Solutions

How do you find the 13" Neville - is the screen big enough ?

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## Neville Bailey

> How do you find the 13" Neville - is the screen big enough ?


Bigger is always better when it comes to screen size and photography processing, but for me the convenience and portability of the smaller screen/laptop outweighs the benefits of a larger, desktop machine, as I am always on the move.

I am certainly not squinting at the screen...

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## HR Solutions

> Bigger is always better when it comes to screen size and photography processing, but for me the convenience and portability of the smaller screen/laptop outweighs the benefits of a larger, desktop machine, as I am always on the move.
> 
> I am certainly not squinting at the screen...


So I bit the bullet and got the mac ....... now I'm also a happy chappy.  It really is an awesome machine and the backup service from Apple (I Store) is amazing.   :Smile:

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