# General Business Category > Technology Forum >  AVG no longer our friend?

## tec0

Yes AVG free Edition was always considered our friend, you can get it for free and mostly the updates werenât that big. But all of that is gone now. When I upgraded to AVG 2011 it took in total about 300MB from my 3Gâs 1 GB cap and then it continued with 33.8Mb updates along with a few others.

Now as we all know our internet service providers are greedy selfish maggots that feed on the poor South African by forcing them to pay R300 more or less for 1GB of data. In that regard the old AVG was golden it didnât eat as much. 

But all of that is gone now... the New AVG is hungry and its updates just made it unusable to the general public. I say this because the 33mb update fails halfway and then it restarts and it fails and it restarts eating away at your cap. In one night I have used 600MB on AVG? That is just messed up!!!! 

So are there any recommendations on other free antivirus software or is disconnecting from the net and using VR computers our only option?

 :Rant1:

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## KimH

I would highly recommend Microsoft Security Essentials - free to download and free updates for home users.

Here's the link - http://microsoft-security-essentials.en.softonic.com/
for downloads and you can read user reviews as well.

File size12.5MB  :Wink:

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## Mark Atkinson

I use Avast! anti-virus (free edition) and have had absolutely no issues. The file size is around 45mb. Updates are small, quick and efficient.

I'm really happy with it and changed from AVG to Avast! because I found AVG was slowing down my system tremendously and not even picking up everything.

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## garthu

With Mark on this as well. Changed from AVG to avast, still use avast on wifes machine.Would go so far as to recommend it!

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## AndyD

The free AVG 2011 has been revamped from the ground up. There's 2 ways to install, online installation and offline installation. If you install online you first download the bootstrap application which then oversees the rest of the online installation. Note if you just have one pc the the online installation would be more bandwidth economical. 

Off line installation is by a standalone application which is 135mb. It seems to come compiled with all the language options, virus signatures and runtime libraries contained within. This makes it a little larger than the online install which obviously selects appropriately and doesn't download anything unnecessary. The offline installer can be used on multiple pc's in which case it would be a big bandwidth saver.

The first update after I installed it was fairly small at 12mb and just contained very recent virus definitions. 

The first scan took quite a while, nearly 20 mins was 'optimizing' and the remaining 40 mins was scanning. The pc I tested it on is my backup server which is fairly hefty with several terabytes of mixed date across 8 drives so I was expecting to be in for the long haul when it came to scan time.

It found several false positives which I was expecting and excepted from further scans. I planted a couple of examples of suspicious files and the second scan in all fairness took around half the time and it found them all.

It doesn't seem particularly resource heavy in real time use or during scheduled scans but it did clash with my spybotSD teatimer which I've had to disable for now. I submitted a bug report and they replied that it's a known issue which is being addressed.

I'm happy to run it for a few weeks and if no problems become evident I'll probably install it across the board.

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## tec0

But you didnât download any updates for it did you?  

These updates are very useful because it allows you to reinstall updates in âofflineâ mode and when you update it doesnât eat as much. But after all this was done there was a 33.5Mb update that stopped at 22Mb and then the server pinged out. Try it for yourself...

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## irneb

> I would highly recommend Microsoft Security Essentials - free to download and free updates for home users.
> 
> Here's the link - http://microsoft-security-essentials.en.softonic.com/
> for downloads and you can read user reviews as well.
> 
> File size12.5MB


Better!




> I use Avast! anti-virus (free edition) and have had absolutely no issues. The file size is around 45mb. Updates are small, quick and efficient.
> 
> I'm really happy with it and changed from AVG to Avast! because I found AVG was slowing down my system tremendously and not even picking up everything.


Best!!!!!

I've moved away from AVG myself, but for different reasons. See this thread: http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...ead.php?t=7675

At present I'm using Avast! It's small, updates are miniscule and non-invasive, works like a dream, doesn't kill your PC's performance (like AVG did for me), and most wonderfully it PICKED UP stuff none of the others I've tried did (AVG, MS Sec Ess, ClamWin, Comodo AV).

As a side note, MS-SE is also quite small (about 10MB for installer download - don't know how much it used thereafter). But I've since un-installed it - it's doing the same thing as AVG did on my Laptop & work PC (i.e. using up +30% of CPU while any program launches) ... and yes I've set it to exclude the most common progs from its real-time scan ... has no effect whatsoever. I think that exclusion page is a placebo!

AVG always used 50% of the dual core CPU during program load-up and using inordinate amounts of RAM, causing some programs to start in minutes rather than seconds. Even though I've excluded them in AVG's real-time scan as well. With Avast! I've never seen task-manager show Avast! using more than 5% during any program's load-up (usually hovers around 1 to 2%), and I haven't excluded anything in its settings at all!

Can't remember exactly, but my AVG tended to use in the order of 100MB for its background process. Clamwin (which I'd not advise as an AV really) used extremely little, but did little as well (not worth the effort) - IMO they can drop that particular Open Source AV, unless they want to turn it into something more than just a file checker. MS-SE was using about 50MB of RAM, but I'd also not advise it as the only thing you've got. It doesn't catch everything at all, it's more like a stop-gap solution to make Windowze less security lacking.

Avast!'s using a whopping 25MB at this very moment. I've just started my PC and after logging into the domain, I had Thunderbird (145MB), Firefox (152MB) & AutoCAD (325MB) running and responsive within 1 minute. And its updates are rarely more than 500kb per day. The original download was 52MB.

If you're really security conscious, then I'd advise something like Comodo Firewall as well. But be warned that uses the same type of RAM & CPU as AVG, but blows anything wanting to connect to the internet (including itself, windows, any AV, or whatever) unless you allow it.

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## wynn

I found the 'free AVG' was slowing my internet connection down as it filtered everything all the time, I thought by buying the real version it would help but it didn't.
I have been using 'Avast free' for the last year and find it much better.

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## solweb

I moved to Avast a while ago and have no problems, in fact Avast Free has picked up problems that other (Paid) Antit Virus have overlooked. 

A good place to get information is http://www.techsupportalert.com/

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## tec0

Well AVG 2011 is running at the moment but I am not happy with the big updates. So I will stick to my guns AVG WAS good until it started to cost me more then what it is worth.  

Spending half a GB on updates alone is madness. It is a shame because I liked AVG a lot, it used to be small the updates used to be small but now it is just another  1 ton application slowing down my internet and feeding on my bandwidth.

Avast is about the get another customer.  :Big Grin:

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## Dave A

> I found the 'free AVG' was slowing my internet connection down as it filtered everything all the time, I thought by buying the real version it would help but it didn't.


If you're not a reckless browser wandering around hairy parts of the internet, disable the link scanner to get rid of that problem.

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## irneb

> I found the 'free AVG' was slowing my internet connection down as it filtered everything all the time, I thought by buying the real version it would help but it didn't.
> I have been using 'Avast free' for the last year and find it much better.


If you check the thread linked to in my previous post, you'll note I had  the enterprise edition AVG for all the PC in our office. At least then  we could get the updates onto our own server and have the PCs update  from there (instead of doing 60+ updates each over our broadband). But  even the paid-for (R29000 / year) Enterprise Edition AVG was not  catching everything Avast! did, and it was not catching everything while  hogging the PC's RAM & CPU as well as the internet connection.




> I moved to Avast a while ago and have no problems, in fact Avast Free has picked up problems that other (Paid) Antit Virus have overlooked. 
> 
> A good place to get information is http://www.techsupportalert.com/


Exactly! That's one of my major reasons for loving it!




> If you're not a reckless browser wandering around hairy parts of the internet, disable the link scanner to get rid of that problem.


Why should you need to do that? Don't you usually install an AV because you want to be protected? To install something, simply to disable it because it's overly hogging your system is defeating its purpose isn't it?

Avast! catches the same stuff (if not more) than AVG's internet connection snooping. It also pops up displaying stuff like untrusted (or un-recommended) web sites, same as AVG's bull-dog used to do. Only it doesn't kill your connection like AVG did.

I'm of the opinion that these AV's become bloated after a few years. For whatever reason, their creators start focussing on stuff like look and feel, making "pretty" dialogs, etc. Instead of focusing on making the program run as unobtrusively as possible and catching as many mal-items as they can. It's a dammed background-process dammit! Not a game, not an AV (as in Audio Visual app), not a graphics editor, it's something in the order of a service. It should run with absolute minimal UI (only the needed message boxes to display information when there's something WRONG!). The settings should be done through a minimal dialog - maybe even something directly inside the Control Panel. The UI shouldn't be the biggest portion of the program. And AVG is a perfect example of the UI becoming much more important to the programmers than the actual purpose of the program itself.

Yet even Avast! has a skinned look-n-feel (like AVG does), only they've been able to do so using a lot less resources. I'd have liked to see something like Clamwin (with a truly minimalist UI) be capable of a true AV/Anti Malware/Anti Spam/etc. like these other AV's. That would make for an AV which is focused on being an AV, not a pretty picture! Otherwise you end up with these scenarios where you have to turn stuff off simply to make the thing work decently.

So I'm even scared that Avast!'s moving towards this bloated UI-driven AV - if you look at its UI you see a lot of design's gone into it. That only means to me that the programmers' have spent a lot of their time making pretty pictures instead of making the program as robust and efficient as possible. At least Avast!'s not reached AVG's level of bloat (yet)! Maybe in a year or two they'll become the bloated box of useless, I hope *not* though! They've been in business for quite a while now, so maybe they're not moving to that particular nettle of thorns, one can hope  :EEK!:

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## Dave A

> If you're not a reckless browser wandering around hairy parts of the internet, disable the link scanner to get rid of that problem.
> 			
> 		
> 
> Why should you need to do that? Don't you usually install an AV because you want to be protected? To install something, simply to disable it because it's overly hogging your system is defeating its purpose isn't it?


It's not hogging resources on your PC - it's the check-with-AVG-server-for-a-scan-on-the-fly result time for the specific URL that causes the delay. If you look at all the steps in that, and the number of trips up and down our wonderful international connections, little wonder response is slow.



> I'm of the opinion that these AV's become bloated after a few years.


Yeah - I agree. Remember when AVG was saving us from the bloat of Norton's...  :Stick Out Tongue: 



> So I'm even scared that Avast!'s moving towards this bloated UI-driven AV


Based on track record of all the others, probably  :Frown:

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## SilverNodashi

> Yes AVG free Edition was always considered our friend, you can get it for free and mostly the updates werenât that big. But all of that is gone now. When I upgraded to AVG 2011 it took in total about 300MB from my 3Gâs 1 GB cap and then it continued with 33.8Mb updates along with a few others.
> 
> Now as we all know our internet service providers are greedy selfish maggots that feed on the poor South African by forcing them to pay R300 more or less for 1GB of data. In that regard the old AVG was golden it didnât eat as much. 
> 
> But all of that is gone now... the New AVG is hungry and its updates just made it unusable to the general public. I say this because the 33mb update fails halfway and then it restarts and it fails and it restarts eating away at your cap. In one night I have used 600MB on AVG? That is just messed up!!!! 
> 
> So are there any recommendations on other free antivirus software or is disconnecting from the net and using VR computers our only option?


so is it the ISP's fault that AVG is now not an option for you anymore?
Why don't you use ADSL / iBurst / Neotel / etc? 

And, Vodadom has (had?) a nightowl thing where if you purchased 1GB, you get 1GB free after hours - which is perfect for updates and stuff

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## Cream

This has been an interesting read, I have been looking for an upgrade from AVG and here it is.  Our team has suggested doing research of their own on AVG and Avast, we may just publish there findings on our new forum.

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## Martinco

I have also installed *Avast* and I am impressed !  :Wink: 

Very easy to use and if you are running a network it is easy to include a scan on all computers on the network thereby eliminating  one PC contaminating the others.
 :Smile:

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## tec0

> so is it the ISP's fault that AVG is now not an option for you anymore?
> Why don't you use ADSL / iBurst / Neotel / etc?
> 
> And, Vodadom has (had?) a nightowl thing where if you purchased 1GB, you get 1GB free after hours - which is perfect for updates and stuff


Fact is we pay way too much and the biggest and only real provider Telkom have neglected to install ADSL capability in our aria for the last few years now. Also I find AVG is nagging whenever I use a trainer for a game or something like that. It just became a very unhappy antivirus.  :Confused:

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## Cream

So we spent time today researching the two and our post covered the features and performance of AVG and Avast.  Our vote so far is currently 1 all :-)

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## AndyD

> Also I find AVG is nagging whenever I use a trainer for a game or something like that....


The new avg has a 'gaming mode' specifically to stop notices and nagging during game play. Have you activated this feature?

Here's a link with more info. http://www.avg.com/ww-en/faq?num=2116

Not suggesting your game is non-genuine but all anti virus applications will give false positives for game cracks which behave as a 'loader' environment type script and are often deployed to circumvent piracy protection which is written into the game. Also some no-cd-cracks and game server emulators can cause the same problem. These scripts would need to be specifically excluded from real time and scheduled scanning.

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## tec0

The truth is I had to crack my original Starcraft to get it working in offline mode. But even then I still feel cheated because the game cost a lot of money to buy and then to crack the damn thing to get it to work was really in bad taste. 

But yes I have noticed that AVG sees everything as a fret especially game trainers game mode or no game mode just downloading the trainer is a problem you donât even get the chance to use it. And it really points to AVG as the problem. 

It feels like Microsoft and now AVG is trying to take ownership of my computer telling me what to do as if it is there property. I own my computer I own my software I allow AVG on my system but they just act as if everything belongs to them. 

Steam especially has a god-complex about their games when you buy a steam game you donât even get a finished product you have to download the other half of the damn thing and Thor forbid if you have to format or lose your password. 

Really the whole thing actually sucks...

Because of steam I am moving over to PS3. Commuter games are dead as far as I am concern. 

First MS gives Errors and blue screens forever nagging about the net, Steam are just a bunch of nerds with a real god-complex problem they think they can screw your wife and you must be happy with it. 

But AVG I am truly disappointed with. It restarts after every update almost... it is heavy on bandwidth and it cries wolf every chance it gets.

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## Dave A

> I own my software


Most often we just own a licence to use the software  :Wink: 

I hear where you're coming from though.

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## AndyD

> But AVG I am truly disappointed with. It restarts after every update almost... it is heavy on bandwidth and it cries wolf every chance it gets.


It's a problem with any anti-virus or firewall solution where if you do anything other than very average pc usage you need to train the programs by creating rules, exceptions and setting up a trusted list. It isn't just an AVG problem.

Anti-virus shouldn't require a restart for signatures updates, it just adds these to its database. Unfortunately though it probably would require restarts if changes or updates were made to the core application. All anti viruses work at very low system level so this is unavoidable to avoid operating system instabilities.

As for being bandwidth hungry...look on the bright side, the application is freeware so you're saving a couple of hundred bucks off the bat to sweeten the cost.

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## tec0

> Most often we just own a licence to use the software 
> 
> I hear where you're coming from though.


Ah... I was hoping that someone would highlight the licence. Yes I am fully aware on how licences work what the costs are and on a personal note, customers and users get ripped off. I say this because not a single computer can operate without an OS of some kind right. 

So basically the deal is I give you the car but I keep the engine thus you have a nice box but it canât do anything. Really it is blackmail to a degree because you donât even get a premium product no... You get a starter addition that is worthless and the list goes on and on. 

See this is what happens if you allow a single entity to run the show. They start to make the rules and every rule they make is designed to enrich them and enslave you. 

So game designers thought lets go one better and only sell half a product and then force the user to download the other half and force them to become a part of our social network and force them to keep the game designer informed so that the game designer can design patches and if gamer donât want it then the game doesnât work anymore. In a word blackmail. 

Well there are a lot of gifted people in this world and they are designing their own OS systems Freeware and crack ware to combat this blackmail but these people are branded as criminals by a system that is effectively controlled by blackmailers.

As for AVG being free? It is not really free anymore, sure you donât pay for your product but if you noticed that when you install AVG it ask it if it would be ok to send out information to a server thus you are providing them when a active real world test subject not to mention a lot of companies like M-web is picking up the bill not to mention Yahoo and a few others 

So in a way AVG is paid for by allowing your computer to be test subject and it is sponsored by other companies. But eventually a free bit of software will cost you in bandwidth especially if are on a 3G parasite network.

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## garthu

So it certainly seems from this thread.... AVG 0 - Avast.... score!!!  :Thumbup:

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## AndyD

You could just set up a virtual machine and just start with a clean slate every few days. That way you can run without anti-virus. End of problem.

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## popayetwo

> I use Avast! anti-virus (free edition) and have had absolutely no issues. The file size is around 45mb. Updates are small, quick and efficient.
> 
> I'm really happy with it and changed from AVG to Avast! because I found AVG was slowing down my system tremendously and not even picking up everything.


I have been using Avast free edition for 5 years and it really good. Updates are free and fast and usually there are two updates a day, ensuring you have the very latest protection installed. Updates are fully automatic too. I could never understand why anyone would want to use AVG which requires HUGE MANUAL updates which are already out of date when you download them. Change to avast home edition (free) and forget about viruses.

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## tec0

Actually I am running a few Virtual computers for my needs, the reason for posting all of this as a form of protest. Steam is actually selling software that cannot function independently anymore. Now for the rest of the world this is not a problem but for us it matters because our internet is really expensive. 

âAnd yes I am aware of a few âtricksâ to bypass Steamâs massif updatesâ 

Microsoft, actively scan there software, with every update you do. It checks that your software are authentic in nature and every Service Pack you use comes at your own Internet expense. Yet they are fully aware of our horribly expensive internet. 

The feeling one get is that these developers want us to use their products but at the same time they donât care if we can actually afford them.

AVG 2011 is now a supper heavy weight with a very heavy bandwidth footprint. It is now sucking the life out of your 3G cap. Again AVG never used to be this heavy in nature.  :Frown:  

It is for this reason that one must ask? Why is every software company forcing there rules down on us and we are forced to accept them but they never take our needs into consideration? 

It is a really a one-sided relationship and we must just accept it? 

They are literally costing us thousand more then what we were willing to spend in the first place. Also how many uncapped ISP's are there? 

And do we have access to them? 

Before you answer that question have good look at our infrastructure, do ALL South Africans have access to these providers? No probably not and that is why 3G mobile networks are so popular but you donât see them coming down in cost now do you? 

Now software is just adding to the demand for internet and honestly people cannot afford it.

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## irneb

> Microsoft, actively scan there software, with every update you do. It checks that your software are authentic in nature and every Service Pack you use comes at your own Internet expense. Yet they are fully aware of our horribly expensive internet. 
> 
> The feeling one get is that these developers want us to use their products but at the same time they donât care if we can actually afford them.
> 
> AVG 2011 is now a supper heavy weight with a very heavy bandwidth footprint. It is now sucking the life out of your 3G cap. Again AVG never used to be this heavy in nature.


This is as per discussed between Dave A and myself (see posts #12 & #13). Basically 90% of the download size is due to the bloat caused by the &quot;improved&quot; user interface. The actual working part of the entire AVG shouldn't be more than (at max.) 10MB - that's even being conservative. The rest of that enormous download is literally just unnecessary junk to make it &quot;look good&quot;. 



> It is for this reason that one must ask? Why is every software company forcing there rules down on us and we are forced to accept them but they never take our needs into consideration?


They simply don't give a dam: "_Who're these guys complaining in SA? So what? They're a miniscule portion of our overall client-base, and nearly everyone in our client base has cheap broadband. So why care about this fraction of a percent?_" 


> Also how many uncapped ISP's are there? 
> 
> And do we have access to them? 
> 
> Before you answer that question have good look at our infrastructure, do ALL South Africans have access to these providers? No probably not and that is why 3G mobile networks are so popular but you donât see them coming down in cost now do you? 
> 
> Now software is just adding to the demand for internet and honestly people cannot afford it.


Now that's a whole different discussion on its own!

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## irneb

You should see our major programs from AutoDesk. They now stopped posting DVDs - you have to download the upgrades / updates ... all 2 to 8 GB worth.

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## irneb

Just look at what those Brits can get: http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/  A whole 15GB for Â£15/month (including the dongle). That's a "whopping" R170/month.  Compare that to (let's say) Vodacom's Standard MyGig 2.3 - with a 2.3GB cap at R450/month.

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## AndyD

> You should see our major programs from AutoDesk. They now stopped posting DVDs - you have to download the upgrades / updates ... all 2 to 8 GB worth.


Autodesk don't make life easy but if you contact them direct they will still mail a disk with updates packaged as a standalone installer. They just did it for our AutoCAD MDT, mechanical and Inventor as well. Same for Catia but they don't advertise the fact.

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## popayetwo

> Autodesk don't make life easy but if you contact them direct they will still mail a disk with updates packaged as a standalone installer.


But by the time the disk arrives in the snail mail its WAAAY  out of date and hundreds of other viruses have infested the web. That's why Avast with its twice daily updates is so much better. And the updates are a few kilobytes in size. And free.

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## AndyD

> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 			
> 				Originally Posted by AndyD View Post
> Autodesk don't make life easy but if you contact them direct they will still mail a disk with updates packaged as a standalone installer.
> 			
> ...


Autodesk isn't an antivirus, it's a company who distribute CAD drawing packages. Their updates come out only a couple or so times a year.

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## irneb

> Autodesk don't make life easy but if you contact them direct they will still mail a disk with updates packaged as a standalone installer. They just did it for our AutoCAD MDT, mechanical and Inventor as well. Same for Catia but they don't advertise the fact.


Only halfway. You wait for 2 months for the DVD to arrive, then when you install it - let's say Revit Arch 2011, it asks you what content you want to install with it: After you've made your selection ... WTF? That's not on the DVD, download another 2GB of families ... which fails half-way through (due to our _"""impressive"""_ SA-ISPs). Which means we've wasted yet another 500MB - 1.5GB of our capping. Fortunately most of the "content" can be copied to other PC's once it's downloaded, so we don't have to download for all 60 copies  :EEK!: , but there are stuff which simply does not work this way  :Fence: 

And yes, it's not anything to do with AV's - so the snail-mail option should be sufficient here (it's not as if a 6 month old update is not of value). I had just included this reference to show how other programs are tending to the same method of updates / upgrades ... making for the same problems (if not worse due to size).

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## AndyD

This is the way it's going. I doubt you'll be able to get updates on a disk for much longer, I also doubt you'll be able to get updates as a self installing application, pretty shortly it will be web based updates only. If you're running 10 pc's you'll need to go through the online update process 10 times. 
I can't help thinking were complaining about progress on behalf of the software manufacturers when the issue is actually lack of local progress with internet infrastructure and high internet bandwidth prices.

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## irneb

If it was only web updates, you could have used a download manager to resume the download instead of restarting it. The big problem comes when it's a built-in update downloader (i.e. part of the program itself - like with AVG / Avast!). Then it starts downloading, finds the connection timing out, restart download from scratch, rinse-n-repeat.

If the programmer wants to include their updating thingy inside the program, they HAVE TO add the resume capability. Otherwise they should just take this out of their program and let other stuff handle the job much more efficiently - which is probably not an option for AVs.

If AVG's only problem was the downloads, then adding a resume to its download manager would solve this problem by 90%. Avast! doesn't show this issue (yet) since its updates are so small the SA-ISP's _built-in-timeout-on-purpose-whenever-you-least-expect-it-feature_ can't catch it  :Big Grin:

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## Dazfuzz

Ahhh... a point for Avast!

Seeing what some people were saying about Avast! I had some of the Office workstations install Avast while retaining AVG for the short term. We had a incident today where an email from "Fedex" was received by a colleague stating the need to print out a receipt and bring into the offices to collect a parcel... "coincidentally" the same person had actually received a package today making it all seem legit. Upon opening the zip file he was presented with an "exe" file. 

Luckily Avast prevented the file from opening (screaming "Trojan"!) and he called me to have a look. AVG did zip...zero...nada! I suspected its a virus and got rid of it. "Coming to think of it were gonna have to run some full scans to make sure it didn't get onto the pc or the network." 

So be careful, if you get something from fedex; even if you are expecting a parcel.

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