# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Freedom for all in 1994 - Are we all really free?

## JanChris

Unemployment is rising

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## HR Solutions

Yes it is, but finding the right people to do a job is also becoming harder and harder, therefore there is def work but not the right skills to match the work.

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## Mqmbomvu

According to the simple defination of freedom, we are not free. We a mentally free, knowing that you are is nothing if you unable practice your freeness. Whats makes man to do what he like is dertemined by his wealthy. Ths goes to say political freedom can't free a man, its only economic freedom can rescue a man. Here in SA we granted only political freedom in CODESAs, that freedom we have is called pseudo-independent.

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## pmbguy

> According to the simple defination of freedom, we are not free. We a mentally free, knowing that you are is nothing if you unable practice your freeness. Whats makes man to do what he like is dertemined by his wealthy. Ths goes to say political freedom can't free a man, its only economic freedom can rescue a man. Here in SA we granted only political freedom in CODESAs, that freedom we have is called pseudo-independent.


You correct in saying that political freedom does not really mean freedom until there is economic freedom. 

But let’s take a step back and look at “political” freedom first. The white minority does not have political freedom in SA and are heavily suppressed by law. The ANC (Even the president) publically incites violence against white people. This whilst the white murder rate is far above all other races, and there is a 95%+ Black on White murder rate  

Back to economic freedom, the incompetent corrupt ANC alliance will eventually destroy industry... no chance of economic freedom to anybody then. 

Freedom, both economic and political, is under severe threat from the ANC – an ANC who has turned its back on its foundation of non racialism a long time ago.

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## HR Solutions

> According to the simple defination of freedom, we are not free. We a mentally free, knowing that you are is nothing if you unable practice your freeness. Whats makes man to do what he like is dertemined by his wealthy. Ths goes to say political freedom can't free a man, its only economic freedom can rescue a man. Here in SA we granted only political freedom in CODESAs, that freedom we have is called pseudo-independent.


To create your own freedom is up to you - to get an education - to get qualified in anything that you are capable of doing - to get good employment and to grow yourself to create your own freedom.  You cannot expect freedom without doing something about it yourself.  The people around you or the government can only create freedom up to a certain point - the rest is up to you.





> Whats makes man to do what he like is dertemined by his wealth


And what does "wealth" mean ?  And how would you say you go about getting wealth ?

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## adrianh

There is no such thing as freedom. There are always constraints and rules......Nothing, nowhere, ever...is totally free. There is no such thing as economic freedom either...you more you get the more you want.

Freedom, my friend, is a state of mind...just like happiness and love...

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## Mqmbomvu

Yes it is true that the white minority their political freedom has been violated; that violation has began frm 1994. So, ths thing has swang frm one side to another. Before 1994, it was majority black were crying of freedom, during that time only white minority enjoyed both econ & political freeness. I agree again that ths ANC is destrubting all freedom we fougth by corruption ectc. To one who say freedom dertemined by yourself i can't agree. This is because i believe that psychological awarenes about things such as justice,freedom or moral issues is nothing if you know then but unable to do practically. Therefore, again i can say it is the wealth that dertemine ability.

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## Blurock

> According to the simple defination of freedom, we are not free. We a mentally free, knowing that you are is nothing if you unable practice your freeness. Whats makes man to do what he like is dertemined by his wealthy. Ths goes to say political freedom can't free a man, its only economic freedom can rescue a man. Here in SA we granted only political freedom in CODESAs, that freedom we have is called pseudo-independent.


Standing in a queue and waiting for handouts is not freedom. Freedom is the ability to make choices. The choices that you make now will determine your future. Choosing an education instead of demonstrating and burning public buildings. Choosing the right career path and not just a job. Choosing not to support and harbour thieves and fraudsters. Choosing the right leaders. Real leaders who can serve their communities and lead by example, not cadres deployed because they are friends with number 1. Choosing a government that will not enrich themselves at the expense of the people.

Having freedom comes with responsibility. Responsibility for your country and your fellow South Africans. That means that you will fight corruption, fight bad government or poor service delivery, fight poverty and the undermining of our economy by illegal, cheap, shitty imports. You will pay your taxes and do your part in building this country. You will protect jobs by resisting unrealistic demands by  trade unions and politicians who are the only ones who benefit from strikes. You will assist in building and not breaking down. 

Brick by brick we can build this country if everyone pulls together. Only if we have a strong and growing economy will we be able to spread the wealth. Wealth does not mean that two or three politicians or connected crooks have all the money. A country's wealth is measured by the well being of all its people, not just the politicians.

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## wynn

> Therefore, again i can say it is the wealth that dertemine ability.


Mqmbomvu you are possibly the tip of an iceberg that is realizing the idea of requiring wealth to progress, the next stage is to realize that the 80 odd billion that has been corrupted out of the annual fiscus by cANCer politicians and cronies is actually the wealth that you require to progress.
If you take Nkandla alone at R250million it could have built 5,000 RDP houses @ R50,000 each, that would have given at least 30,000 maybe more people a roof over their heads and that is just one glaring instance.
Now take the R80 billion? how many schools, clinics, hospitals, colleges, university bursaries, small business start ups, etc could that have been used for in one year instead of R1million cars for blue light brigades and on and on???

Wake up! the government is stealing your future progress while you sit and complain.

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## Mqmbomvu

Wynn' i get your point. I agree that this economic freedom already arrived but the impediments now is our black fellow brothers and sisters who delay our success by corruption.

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wynn (19-Sep-14)

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## HR Solutions

> Wynn' i get your point. I agree that this economic freedom already arrived but the impediments now is our black fellow brothers and sisters who delay our success by corruption.


Yep so the question is - what are YOU going to do about it ?

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## JanChris

How fickle are we not, everyone complains while we support a corrupt system, the government hands out t-shirts and food parcels just before election and we vote for them. Then we don't hear or see them while they collect and think of new ways to screw Joe public.

We cannot even agree to this but we have ideas how to "rectify" the problem while most government offices are corrupt. One of the MOST important issues are safety for the citizens, the farmers are being murdered and the "whites" own everything. so it is claimed.

The farms that were taken over by "others" are no longer productive. I am so sick and tired of people who have no balls to say what is happening because they want to be politically correct. You be politically correct while we end up like Zimbabwe and if no-one can see that we are heading the same way, we are not just blind but stupid. Mugabe said that all Europeans must leave Africa, maybe all Africans should return to Africa and then compete to see which content will be more successful. I understand that from 2009 Zimbabwe has adopted the American dollar as the Zim dollar is too weak. Rhodesia used to be such a beautiful country before it started to burn.

HR, education is going to be of no benefit to anyone if there are no jobs to fill, not all has the mental and financial ability to start their own venture.

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## HR Solutions

Jan I repeat there are jobs to fill and lots of them. You have to be correctly educated to fill them tho.

Jan what would you suggest people do and what are you doing about the "government" "problem"?

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## Justloadit

> Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).


I found a wonderful site with many quotes so close to home

Another interesting quote 



> Quite frankly, I think political correctness is the worst form of censorship. You're not allowed to speak your mind unless you're black, or unless you're a terrorist, or unless you're an Arab or a minority people. Then you can say what you like. But if you are like a lot of us you are not supposed to say certain things.


another one 



> Corruption is the enemy of development, and of good governance. It must be got rid of. Both the government and the people at large must come together to achieve this national objective.


and last one for now but not least



> We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

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## JanChris

> Jan I repeat there are jobs to fill and lots of them. You have to be correctly educated to fill them tho.
> 
> Jan what would you suggest people do and what are you doing about the "government" "problem"?


My Good Man, I am opposing everything that is not fair or does not allow all citizens of SA a chance to make a living peacefully & safely. I belong to a number of organisations. I am currently training 50 youngsters in a trade. When I did mine I never had a government that paid my meals or transport as what is happening now. The training centres should NEVER have been stopped.

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## HR Solutions

That is fantastic.  How come you are battling to get a job then ?

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## JanChris

> That is fantastic.  How come you are battling to get a job then ?


As I said before, Maybe I am too honest, straight talking, more qualified than my interviewer, not a lap dog and I do not play the company politics game. I have decided to work for myself.

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## HR Solutions

Oh ok I thought you were joking when you originally said that.

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## JanChris

> Oh ok I thought you were joking when you originally said that.


My Good Man, I would like to know what your views are regarding being politically correct and other comments I made earlier. Enjoy your day.

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## HR Solutions

> My Good Man, I would like to know what your views are regarding being politically correct and other comments I made earlier. Enjoy your day.


My views ...... I think you are totally wrong in the sense that there are no jobs out there ...... I have been in the Recruitment business for over 10 years and things have never looked better - there are jobs for the proper qualified people !

But you know I have said that before and you disagree.

You also know that I have also said that too many white boys between the age of 20-30 (which I know is not you) do not want to work and play the victim all the time.  
Too many people play the victim when they can't get a job and do not want to listen to advice from people that know.  If you have the
correct qualification and the right attitude there is work out there.

But anyway - you and I will always agree to disagree on this point.  I do think you would be shocked if you had to spend half a day with us and see how people do not pitch up for interviews, people who think they know better, people who think they can walk into a job with any attitude and think they are the company's saviour, people who will not travel more than 10km for an interview because they can't be bothered, people who think they don't need to start at the bottom and earn/work their way up ....... the stories continue.


There was a guy on this forum a while ago who played the victim card at every opportunity.  We kept on telling him to go out there and make it happen (I am not saying this is you)  but you do need to make it happen.  

What are you qualified at Chris ?  What do you do ?

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## JanChris

HR, I have 25+ years production management experience with a national diploma in production and cost accounting (accredited), Production Management Diploma with PMISA. NOSA qualifications, certified in Employment Equity compliant recruitment and selection, artisan in the trade of welding, design my own machines, etc.

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## HR Solutions

Just as a matter of interest - are they telling you diploma.s are not good enough ?

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## JanChris

> Just as a matter of interest - are they telling you diploma.s are not good enough ?


No, they do not. They usually respond by letter or e-mail that the position will either not be filled or I am "over" qualified, or they are seeking a "younger" person. All the info is available in my CV but why let me go for the interview if I do not have a chance of filling the position. I was told that some recruitment companies send many "candidates" of different races as this makes the agencies "look" good.

Just remember that not all applicants have degrees. I have worked with many such colleagues and they do need some assistance from time to time as they lack practical experience in the field.
But I've made peace with the situation and started my own venture.

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## HR Solutions

> I was told that some recruitment companies send many "candidates" of different races as this makes the agencies "look" good.


We send 5 candidates to a client for a position, after interviewing ALL of them, therefore all will be suitable.  The 5 are of different races and obviously you have 
some stronger than others.  It is not a matter of making us "look good" - it is a matter of - we give our client the choice to choose which candidate HE would like.
We are not looking good in anyones eyes.  It is the correct way of doing things !




> ust remember that not all applicants have degrees.


Of course not, but it is up to the client to decide who he wants and who is better suitable for the job.




> But I've made peace with the situation and started my own venture.


I hope it works out for you

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## JanChris

> We send 5 candidates to a client for a position, after interviewing ALL of them, therefore all will be suitable.  The 5 are of different races and obviously you have 
> some stronger than others.  It is not a matter of making us "look good" - it is a matter of - we give our client the choice to choose which candidate HE would like.
> We are not looking good in anyones eyes.  It is the correct way of doing things !
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not, but it is up to the client to decide who he wants and who is better suitable for the job.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the well wishes. I was informed by an agency that they send different races for an interview so that they look good. I am not saying that all do this.

But we all know, that all businesses do not always practice what they preach or claim to be.

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## JanChris

HR, during our correspondence we have agreed to disagree as you commented. I would like to see other recruiting agencies comments. I wonder why you are the only one commenting.

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## JanChris

Any comments regarding companies, directors being politically correct?

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## JanChris

Someone who claims to be a victim are usually those who are waiting for hand outs (as many do) and are too lazy to change their life around.

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## JanChris

It seems that the comments about being politically correct are not forthcoming. Wonder why?

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## Dave A

> Any comments regarding companies, directors being politically correct?





> It seems that the comments about being politically correct are not forthcoming. Wonder why?


Because at the moment companies and company directors are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Ordinarily companies and their representatives should not risk offending anyone. Part of that is to steer clear of politics and politically sensitive issues (i.e. preferably say nothing at all, and if you have to say something, be as politically correct as possible).

Gets a bit tricky when being politically correct can be offensive to some, though.

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HR Solutions (28-Sep-14)

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## HR Solutions

Yep tend to keep quite because either way it is taken as wrong.

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## adrianh

here's my take on employment - the world owes you nothing, adapt or die. It is up to the individual to position themselves to make a living through the use of their skills. if the market does not require your skills for whatever reason then it is up to the individual to develop skills suitable for the market. If the market requires panel beaters then become one, if the market requires typists then become one, the world will not make space for you, you have to carve your own niche!

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## JanChris

So my suspicion that all the comments posted are not what the respondents "really" would like to say is confirmed, as they are trying to be politically correct and am I correct in saying "their comments are not truthful.

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## JanChris

> Because at the moment companies and company directors are caught between a rock and a hard place.
> 
> Ordinarily companies and their representatives should not risk offending anyone. Part of that is to steer clear of politics and politically sensitive issues (i.e. preferably say nothing at all, and if you have to say something, be as politically correct as possible).
> 
> Gets a bit tricky when being politically correct can be offensive to some, though.


Dave, appreciate your response. It just confirms that all is not well in the business arena. I would like to know where "honesty", "fairness", etc. is practiced/applied in the workplace. The fact that not many are prepared to ask or discuss these issues makes it difficult to address the problems in the workplace. Is it then sound practice/procedure to mention the race of an applicant after 20 years of "freedom" and for how long will we have to do this?

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## HR Solutions

There wasn't honesty and "fairness" 25 years ago ... It was if you were white you got the job.

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## adrianh

> So my suspicion that all the comments posted are not what the respondents "really" would like to say is confirmed, as they are trying to be politically correct and am I correct in saying "their comments are not truthful.


This is one of the most absurd things ever posted on this site. I understand why you can't find a job...I would never hire a person who considers the entire world to be wrong because nobody agrees with his views.

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## JanChris

> This is one of the most absurd things ever posted on this site. I understand why you can't find a job...I would never hire a person who considers the entire world to be wrong because nobody agrees with his views.


Adrian, I never once said that I wanted all to agree, but too see what the views are of others on the forum. I thought that this forum was a platform to discuss topics and in general understand the other person's views. All I am trying to bring across is that WE should not think that WE are correct and OTHERS are wrong. We are all entitled to our opinions and are those opinions actually what we believe in or are WE saying so to be either popular on the forum or try and be politically correct. 

I never said the world was wrong but no-one gains to be an ostrich either and live in their own little world, the more people that participates in a constructive debate is healthy. 


" I WOULD RATHER BE HATED FOR WHO I AM, THAN LOVED FOR WHO I AM NOT"

Adrian, if my post was so "absurd" why comment?

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## HR Solutions

> Adrian, I never once said that I wanted all to agree,


No you didn't say so in so many words, but your responses show you don't like it if anyone disagrees with you.


Here is a typical example - you did not like what Adrian said.




> Adrian, if my post was so "absurd" why comment?

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## JanChris

HR, a very "grown up" response from an "educated" person. It is great to see what others think I'm trying to say. I still say that not many have the balls to say what they feel or think. I get the feeling that this forum is not what it appears to be so I will most likely not post any further comments.

Sad, but once again it is only MY opinion.

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## HR Solutions

> HR, a very "grown up" response from an "educated" person. It is great to see what others think I'm trying to say. I still say that not many have the balls to say what they feel or think. I get the feeling that this forum is not what it appears to be so I will most likely not post any further comments.
> 
> Sad, but once again it is only MY opinion.


Ok .... plenty of people have the "balls" to post on this forum ...... its the retaliation they don't like .....like your above ...
It started with possible employers (interviewers) not seeing your "point of view" and ends with the forum members not having the balls to say what they want to you ...... some similarities there or what .......... but anyway cheers hey ......

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## Blurock

> So my suspicion that all the comments posted are not what the respondents "really" would like to say is confirmed, as they are trying to be politically correct and am I correct in saying "their comments are not truthful.


I do not agree with this statement. If you read the posts on this forum you will soon notice that we have a pretty mixed bunch here and not shy to speak our minds. yes, we do tend to be "politically correct" in order not to offend people. We can also stir it up if the situation calls for it and then (sometimes) have to apologize.

I have to agree with Adrian though; the world owes you nothing! You are the result of the choices you make in life. If you do not like your life, start making different choices. Yes, it is harder for white males to get jobs these days, just as we had job reservation under apartheid which made it harder for black people to get jobs. This should however, not deter you from making the most of what you can be.  I know of many white and black people who have risen above their circumstances, be it poverty, lack of education,  disabilities or whatever. The secret is not to place your future in someone else's hands, but to be master of your own destiny.

So many people sit and wait on the roadside for someone to pick them up and give them a job for the day. This is a total waste of time as you will only find a temporary job that no-one else wants. Educate yourself and acquire skills that you can sell. There is always a demand for skilled people. Never stop learning!

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## JanChris

Blurock, I would love to meet you. I would like to show you what I have achieved in my life. I do not require a job from anyone as I have decided to start my own venture as I mentioned before. Yes, there was a time that I thought that I would have to work for a "Boss". You and I have shared some private mails & calls so you probably know me a little better than the rest.

It is not in my nature to boast but I can thankfully say that I do not owe anyone for my house, vehicles & motorcycles.

So, I have never waited for anyone in my life, but not everyone has the ability to be self employed. Have you ever spared a thought for those that are employed and those who can easily be left out in the cold.

I can see that so many that have commented on my threads have tried to "analyse" me and place me in a bracket or group that they think I fit into, All I can say is that you'll be surprised.

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## Dave A

Just a quick reminder that we should be playing the ball and not the man, folks. I see some assumptions in play here that aren't helping any.

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## HR Solutions

> Blurock, I would love to meet you. I would like to show you what I have achieved in my life
> I can see that so many that have commented on my threads have tried to "analyse" me


Jan - with all due respects but if I may ask and I ask this as a general question as if I am asking myself as well - Do other people really care what a person has achieved  and do you think that people really analyse other people on a forum ?  Or do they perhaps just comment on what they think about a thread that one posts ?
The same goes for everyone on this forum - not many people know what other people have "achieved" or not achieved and at the end of the day they don't really care.  And again I say this with respect - I do not mean it in a derogatory way at all. What one person has done or where they have travelled for example means absolutely nothing to the next person who might believe that their achievements are different and therefore better !

When it has come to some of your postings - opinions are given by people (including myself) - some of the opinions should be accepted because they have been given by qualified professional people etc etc. or by people that have extensive years experience in their field.  Personally I try to stay away from giving an opinion where I know absolutely nothing about.

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## flaker

Blurock, great post that & that statement "NEVER stop learning" . In this age one is left with no alternative, & so when my kids (+mid twenties) say that they're tired of studying, i say to them that they're learning all the time without actually realising it.

Ever since we've had internet, i've used outlook express for e-mails, and after falling a victim to crime and having my computer stolen, & loosing all my old mails & having those b.....ds reading all, i've changed to a gmail account and learning new ways of using this (with some difficulty i must admit)

What i would like to learn most is how to laugh. I never watch a comedy movie, nor can i get myself to watch one.

Thank you,guys,for listening to my most mundane post

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## Dave A

> What i would like to learn most is how to laugh.


Try popping past the Jokes Forum from time to time  :Wink: 
It's one of my go-to resources whenever I feel the need to lift my spirits.

And I've found it's important to be in good spirits too. There's little doubt that "attitude determines your altitude", and being in good cheer is a great way to drive a positive attitude.

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## Chrisjan B

Enjoy a little bit of Johnny Walker good spirits and you will see yourself laugh easier and often!

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## Jacob Zuma

Real freedom is anarchy!

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## Blurock

Recipe for happiness with credit to Max Moyo:
Positive energy can move mountains. What are you enthusiastic about? 

The root of the word enthusiasm is entheos. It literally means "God Within." Just think, when you feel enthusiastic about your dreams it means that God is speaking through you and saying "yes" to your goals! The feeling of enthusiasm is one of the ways your intuition speaks to you. What makes you excited, happy, delighted? What do you look forward to each day? Do more of it!

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