# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Racial groups!

## Citizen X

*I didn’t dare enter the political forum until today simply because at the best of times politics is contentious, there are fiercely expounded outlooks and belief systems to inform those outlooks, heated emotions on all sides and the real potential for creating division and strive. I'm for building bridges not burning bridges, I’m, for forging friendships and alliances not creating enemies. When I first joined TFSA, I said to myself," The Polical forum is one that I will never enter," but here I am!!*
*We’ve reached a stage in South Africa politics where you no longer can say, “the Whites,” “The Blacks,” The Indians,” and “The Coloureds.” The reason is apparent, we are all individuals regardless of the race or religious we belong to. Each racial group anyway has cultures, sub cultures, a variety of religions etc. We are for all practical intents and purposes a very diverse society and we should be very proud of such diversity. What we can however say is “That individual who just so happens to be a White person said.. and done… on …,“ That individual who just so happens to be a Black person said .. and done… on “That individual who just so happens to be an Indian person said… and done… on…“That individual who just so happens to be a Coloured individual said and done… on**..None of us can speak on behalf of the racial groups we just so happen to belong to. Race is only relevant for census purposes as could be seen from the census forms that every single one of us had to complete.**This is again impossible to do because we all individuals. We are divided on income lines and our society is on this basis unequal. In my opinion universal adult sufferage is important and need not be objective at all. You can vote for what ever political party you want to based on any criteria you so choose as an individual. I personally will never vote for a political party simply because that political party has a predominate amount of certain racial groups. I’ll use this generic example, if there is a predominantly Indian political party called ABC which is riddled with corruption, maladministration, nepotism, poor service delivery and a general attitude of ‘we don’t really care whether you live or die,’ I’m certainly not going to vote for this party because it is predominantly an Indian party.*
*My general question to everyone is simply this: Are you comfortable voting for a party that is riddled with corruption, nepotism, maladministration, poor service delivery regardless of what that party once stood for?*

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## adrianh

Ah, well some of us never voted for them in the first place so the question is moot for us!

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## Petrichor

> Weve reached a stage in South Africa politics where you no longer can say, the Whites, The Blacks, The Indians, and The Coloureds.


Sadly, I am not 100% sure that this is the case yet. If it was, we would have seen bigger growth in some of the smaller political parties and not the smallish decline in the party which we all know are riddled with corruption, maladministration, nepotism, poor service delivery and a general attitude of we dont really care whether you live or die.

My son, now 7, lives in the world you describe, however, our age group still need some time to grow into that world.

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## murdock

i will say it again...until we are all refered to as "south african" there will always be discrimination..when it comes to voting...personally i dont know who to vote for...if i lived in the cape...chances are i would vote da...because there "seems" to be change/improvement...but everywhere else...politians are all in it for the money...little work lots of benefits...this is just my view...chances are there are people who put in the effort...i just dont see it...you only see malema and his doings on the news...like there is nothing else worth reporting. 

i also believe a ward councillor should have to live in the ward he/she represents...not in an upmarket estate 100 km away.

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## Blurock

> i also believe a ward councillor should have to live in the ward he/she represents...not in an upmarket estate 100 km away.


...and you should make him work for his money. Why are the street lights not working? What are you doing about crime? when are you fixing the potholes? The current government has it far too easy as people still vote with emotion for the "club" that they belong to. Despite all the lies, corruption, theft and blatant unpatriotic acts being committed daily. Unpatriotic? Yes, the current government is stealing from their own people and not acting in the best interest of South Africa. What they are doing sometimes border on treason.

My principle is still not to vote for any party, but to always vote for the opposition in order to keep a balance. I do not believe in the halos that politicians are supposedly wearing as they are all in it for their own benefit and not for the community that they are supposed to be serving. :Nono:

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wynn (02-May-12)

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## wynn

The sooner Politicians (should that have a capital??) get over themselves and stop confusing criticism with racism  the sooner things will balance (I know most of them do it on purpose)

It is so bad that if a black person criticises they call him a mouth piece for whites??? I mean how can you get through to people like that??

Keep on voting for the official opposition untill they are strong or in power, then start looking for the next party to support!

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Blurock (02-May-12)

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## adrianh

Which country doesn't have some sort of boundaries beween different racial groups?

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## Citizen X

*Adrian, your proposition has merit in that to date mankind has not managed to live peaceably with each other. We still have this concept of war and civil war. For me it's always been about humanitarian matters and rights and not at all about race. Take India for example, its not a situation of Black and White yet 500 million people live in abject misery. Take North Korea, again not about Black and White, yet 100s of thousands of people are been oppressed. Nigeria, another hotbed, again not Black and White but religious rivalry with deadly consequences. Racial prejudice actually started in the USA. Even until the late 60's there was still some kind of segregation or the other. Ireland, stable now, but again, not a Black and White scenario but rather religious differences...*

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## adrianh

Even after 50 years there are still "racial" tensions in Germany. Americans, as wonderful as they claim to be, still have very serious racial issues...

So, the question is this then; if it can't be done anywhere else howcome we think it can be done here, especially given our history.

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## Blurock

In my view we are all far too sensitive and we often hide behind racism if things do not go our way. What is racism? If I criticise you for being utterly useless, it is not racism, but a reflection on your inability to do something properly.

I have been called a Boer, a Soutie, a Kaffer Boetie, a Capie a Mlungu and many other names. So what?! I am proud to be all those things. The Boers tamed this land. They gave the British Empire hell in the Boer wars. They have built up many businesses that still stand out in the business world. 

The English Souties made a big contribution to this country in terms of commerce and administration. The Blacks provided their labour and are still contributing to building a nation. They, and the Coloureds have fought side by side with the Whiteys in more than one war. The Cape Malays have contributed to our cousine and language, so has the Greeks, Portugese, Jews, Chinese and other South Africans of foreign decent. The Indians came here as indentured labourers and pulled themselves up by their boot laces. Our diversity is our strength.

In the end we are all South Africans. The reality is, when there is a problem, we start calling each other names. We talk about those damn Catholics, or Jews or whiteys or some other name that comes to mind. People will even discriminate against someone from the wrong side of the track, the wrong school or any other difference we can think up.

Funny that we are all brothers when we are together at a sporting match or having a braai or some other social event. Then we realise that the other ou's are not so bad after all. 

Yes, there are some racists in every community, but they will burn themselves out. Stop being so sensitive and enjoy our rainbow nation. Be proudly South African. :Thumbup:

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Dave A (05-May-12), Petrichor (03-May-12), wynn (03-May-12)

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## Citizen X

*I think weve come along way since 1994 in that the vast majority of us have basic human rights which we were deprived of pre 1994. I think the vast majority of South Africans regardless of their race, religion or political opinion want to genuinely live together under the label of South African. I think that the vast majority of South Africans are against any form of racial prejudice. I have observed in my experience that there is reverse racism against the White minority.This is simply wrong In my experience Ive come across racist Indians, racist Blacks, racist Whites and racist Coloureds. No racial group can take the moral high ground as no racial group is without its criminals, rogue elements and hate mongers. I think we do need to redress past unfairness but in a manner that will not be to the detriment of any minority group. I think the vast majority of South Africans are against corruption, nepotism, maladministration and poor service delivery.I was born into diversity! My mom is Coloured, My dad Indian. 3 of my mums sisters married Muslim men, so I was very privileged to grow up with various religious groups up close and personal. To date I maintain close relationships with my many Muslim cozens. They are an integral part of my life. The fact that Im Christian never caused a problem ever, not even on one occasion. I have Indian family and I have Coloured family. There are different denomination of Christian in my family. I have far closer relationship with my Muslim family than I do with my Christian family! We were born into religious diversity in Lenasia. We coexist and respect each others religious practices and holy days etc.The vast majority of my closest friends are Black individuals in Soweto. I spend a great deal of my spare time in Soweto with my friends there. I got to know each racial group up close and personal. Between 1995 and 1997 I lived in VanDerbiljpark, a place called The van Riebeck hotel, not sure if it still exists. I got to know the White Afrikaaner community intimately in this time. In my experience, they were nothing but welcoming, accommodating and very friendly. My stance remains humanitarian in nature.I have a religious belief system that informs me and as such impacts on how I see my fellow human beings. I remain optimistic for the future!*

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Blurock (03-May-12)

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## Citizen X

*"The more things change the more they stay the same…"*
*1.      Tec0, your sentiment holds perfectly true in many ways! As far as I’m concerned it’s the final analysis on this matter! The parallel that I would like to draw is our current South African situation with: George Orwell’s 1945 Animal Farm. This satire was largely about the Russian revolution in which the author went through great lengths to demonstrate that the central idea of that revolution was to promote equality and human rights and in essence change. Not only did things get worse but human rights infringements was by by necessary implication far worse;*
*2.      In my experience(again no qualitative and quantitative research done), but from what I have personally observed over these past 18 years in the workplace, in the community and from the media is that there is reverse racism against the White minority;*
*3.      Freedom of speech was one of the cornerstones of the Constitutional Assemblies final product the Constitution of 1996. The Constitution of 1996 was seen as so supreme that it is no longer referred to as “The Constitution 108 of 1996.” This is so because the Consitution is not an Act of Parliament such as The Criminal Procedure Act 51 of 1977(which is an Act of Parliament, hence Act 51 of Parliament);*
*4.      South African popular opinion which in essence is the will of South Africa is that The Protection of Information  Act,” is there for only one purpose i.e. to hide and protect corruption and corrupt public servants. We not in a state of war! We don’t have an arsenal of nuclear weapons! What is it exactly that needs protection that is not already well protected? No reporter is reporting on South African weapons and defence capabilities. No reporter is reporting on any single thing that can be seen as a threat to National Security! They are by and large reporting on corruption and tenderpreneuship;*
*5.      There is a misconception in South Africa that if you get the ministry of Public works involve in tenders , then there is no corruption. Ever heard of cronyism? It’s not implausible to think that you can have a situation where some officials in public works are equally as corrupt as the other role players and that some of their transactions can be a façade or sharade to create the impression that because public works is involved then there’s definitely no corruption;*
*6.      “Cronyism is partiality to long-standing friends, especially by appointing them to positions of authority, regardless of their qualifications. Hence, cronyism is contrary in practice and principle to meritocracy.Cronyism exists when the appointer and the beneficiary are in social contact; often, the appointer is inadequate to hold his or her own job or position of authority, and for this reason the appointer appoints individuals who will not try to weaken him or her, or express views contrary to those of the appointer. Politically, "cronyism" is derogatorily used.”*
*7.      “Governments are particularly susceptible to accusations of cronyism, as they spend public money. Many democratic governments are encouraged to practice administrative transparency in accounting and contracting, however, there often is no clear delineation of when an appointment to government office is "cronyism".*
*8.      “It is not unusual for a politician to surround him- or herself with highly-qualified subordinates, and to develop social, business, or political friendships leading to the appointment to office of friends, likewise in granting government contracts. In fact, the counsel of such friends is why the officeholder successfully obtained his or her powerful position — therefore, cronyism usually is easier to perceive than to demonstrate and prove. However, "The practice of favoritism based on relationships and connections - rather than someone who demonstrates top credentials and well-suited experience – ultimately results in vastly inferior government service to the public.”*
*9.      A dictatorship in a democratic country is easily established by very simple croynism*
*10. I thank God for our vociferous media houses. They do South Africa great credit. They protect our interests by exposing corruption and engaging in difficult investigative journalism.*



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## Justloadit

I just heard on the news today that the minister of Agriculture, being grilled by a member of the Freedom Front, then shouted out that his shouting by a man who shout at two children, and I must add that these were black children. A statement that has to do with the fact that the FF asked her to resign because of her incompetence. She later retracted her statement.

This from an MP who says she is not racist? Being caught in a corner, now looked at bringing in racism to deviate the real crises. I tried looking for it under the www.ewn.co.za, but could not find it.

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## wynn

> *"The more things change the more they stay the same…"*
> *1.      We not in a state of war! We don’t have an arsenal of nuclear weapons! What is it exactly that needs protection that is not already well protected? No reporter is reporting on South African weapons and defence capabilities. No reporter is reporting on any single thing that can be seen as a threat to National Security!.*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> **
> **
> ...


Until today see http://mg.co.za/article/2012-05-04-l...-sa-vulnerable     It is a good thing that Botswana, Namibia and Zimbabwe do not seem to have any territorial ambitions, because if they chose to annex a few South African provinces, the defence force would be hard-pressed to stop them, especially if Lesotho decided to get into the action.

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## Citizen X

Phillip's map and supporting graphs paint a dismal picture!

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## Citizen X

The conflict between North and South Sudan, This is the lengthiest conflict on our continent of Africa. The human rights violations on both sides demonstrate what I mean when I say I’m concerned with humanitarian/ human rights issues. This conflict is not one between Black and White yet thousands of families have been displaced over the years, thousands have lost their lives and still thousands are living in abject misery. The economy has been decimated by this conflict, as concerned as we are with etolling, their very infrastructure has been largely destroyed. This is a humanitarian crisis and the real tragedy is that there does not seem be a quick resolution to this crisis based on how many years have already been lost to this conflict…

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tec0 (07-Jun-12)

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## gac

To answer Vanash's 1st Question, NO I am not comfortable and certainly will not vote for an inefficient (guilty of all those shortcomings Vanash mentions). 

Like Blurock & Wynn I vote for the opposition and think I will keep doing so until there is no majority. Majority Rule historically creates Dictatorships with all the ills that go hand-in-hand with it. Ruling Politics is a business sadly and politicians (generally) are in it for the money, so getting into and staying in power offers a financially lucrative opportunity. Say no more.

Racism seems to me to be the ultimate rersponse when one's back is to the wall and one has no reasonably acceptable answer. Very noticeably it appears to be an accusation only applicable to whites when in fact it cannot be so by definition. It is a very useful political defensive term used to illicit black unity against whites in SA and distract attention from the core issue. It seems to have far less effect these days than it had 15 years ago, so its only a matter of time before the politicians are going to have to inventsomething else to "hide" their nonsense.

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Blurock (03-Jun-12)

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## tec0

> Source
> 
> 
> AfriForum Youth laid a charge of intimidation against ANC Youth League deputy president Ronald Lamola on Wednesday over comments he made about land reform.
> 
> "AfriForum Youth hopes to achieve justice with this charge against Ronald Lamola, because statements that instigate hatred have a ripple effect on communities and sow further division," spokesperson Charl Oberholzer said in a statement.
> 
> The charge of intimidation was laid at the Brooklyn police station in Pretoria and a case number would be issued soon, Oberholzer said.
> 
> ...


 :Offtopic:  or is it?  :Hmmm:  

Is it not also true that there are many minorities that cannot afford land?  :Confused:

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## adrianh

Lets think about this, so now each and every person owns a 100m^2 of land....ok, what then.

It seems that those clever young people think that land is like the earth's breast.....milk, in the form of wealth just gushes forth forever from each and every square meter....

What hapens in reality is that they take the land and then either sell, or rent it back to the farmer. This issue has nothing to do with land, it has to do with money. They think that having land gives them a fixed asset that is easily converted into cash...nothing more...nothing less.

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Martinco (07-Jun-12), tec0 (07-Jun-12)

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## Blurock

There is no country in the world that prospers where property rights are not secure and guaranteed. You mess with property rights and you disappear into the abyss...! You only need to look at Zim to understand the real risk. No further explanation required! :Yikes:

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tec0 (07-Jun-12)

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## wynn

> or is it?  
> 
> Is it not also true that there are many minorities that cannot afford land?


The question is 'Why do they want the farmers land and not vacant land?'

Adrianh has answered that question.

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## tec0

Well it is not a race thing. I spend a day in Botswana speaking to the people there and they themselves said that there are elements that is designed to promote fear, hate and to promote murder and violence.

The man I spoke to a "business man" said he likes to do business with South African minorities. He said that there was bad apples but in general he welcomes minorities because he thinks that working side by side that Africa can grow. I tend to agree with him. 

But as seen in the above statements that was found in the media it is a shining example to promote everything that is bad. We don’t need it and I wish government and the people will realise this. This is not about existing farms. Why isn't there new developments? Why can't both the majority and the minority go and ask for "NEW" farm land and develop it with some aid? 

Again a very important question?

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## Citizen X

"The more things change, the more they stay the same."

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## Citizen X

Be grateful that the former Apartheid government did not unleash its military might on South Africans!
This should be a no brainer! BUT why people don’t realise this or show some gratitude is beyond me! Look at Syria! If the former Apartheid government as atrocious as they were, unleased the military on us, then most of our homes and infrastructure would have by necessity been destroyed! Insurance doesn’t cover acts of war or civil war! Apartheid can never be justified, that’s not what I’m doing here, I merely directing your attention to the fact that the government of the day let go of power peacefully and modestly when, based on what we see in Syria, they didn’t have to do
1. At the end of an epic battle, the White minority of Sa took the moral high ground, they done this in a gentlemanly manner without property, and infrastructure being destroyed;2. You take a good look at Syria, the regime, is defiant even as at today’s date; in this defiance, citizens homes, businesses, schools and roads are being destroyed! Peple are displaced and live are lost;
3. Now in stark contrast, the Apartheid regime done the right thing by not being indifferent to a Constitutional democracy!
4. I see a situation where reverse racism is taking place, and for the lack of a better term or words punishment or retribution against the White minority and this is wrong
5. Affirmative action: I acknowledge that it’s necessary to redress past unfairness’s But, all members of the White community born after 1994 should be excluded from this policy of differentiation as they are products of the new South Africa and cannot answer for what their grandparents done or didn’t do;
6. Yes, the apartheid government was unjust and did deny us our basic human rights but they also let go of power in a gentlemanly fashion without destroying houses, businesses, displacing families etc…
So, in my layman’s opinion, I think Sa needs to relook the events that led up to our democracy and also concede that we had a peaceful transition, at the very least I'm grateful for what the Apartheid gov did not do as opposed to what they done! The past is just that, the past, yes, there’s reasonable pain from atrocities, there’s valid arguments for redressing past unfairness which doing on a daily basis, look at what happened in Libiya, no peaceful transition and a trail of destroyed homes, businesses and infrastructure.
I remain for humanitarian causes, there's no race card behind any human being ungoing oppression and uncertainty, how can you really have true peace of mind with comments such as :-"Johannesburg - South Africa is an Irish-coffee society, African National Congress secretary general Gwede Mantashe said on Wednesday. 
“The black is at the bottom and white on top with a sprinkling of chocolate,” Mantashe said in Newtown, Johannesburg. ssed..We hear our leaders say reckless things such as South Africa is like Irish coffee..the connotation clear...In true nation building leaders don't talk like this, it leaves uncertainty of what you trying to say..the political line apparently is 'working together we can do more!"

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## Blurock

The reality is that white people have voted in a referendum to allow other races an equal opportunity and transition of government. The majority of those white people were not ANC followers, but belonged to the different parties, including the Nationalist party at the time. It was our choice, because that was the right thing to do, not because of political ideology (idiocy?).

The reality is that we have lived apart for so long and have had little knowledge of how the other half lived. We have become insensitive and took things for granted. Our leaders have lied to us (on both sides). They have mislead us into believing that the "other side" is a threat. The reality is that we are all South Africans. Unfortunately there are still people (black and white) fuelling this fire for their own stupid and selfish objectives.

While politicians are stoking the fire, people on the ground are getting along fine and are doing business and sharing resources. The people of South Africa are great. The politicians are the problem, and that includes every one of them. :Mad:

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Citizen X (12-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> While politicians are stoking the fire, people on the ground are getting along fine and are doing business and sharing resources. The people of South Africa are great. The politicians are the problem, and that includes every one of them.


A very good morning to you Blurock! I agree, People on the ground are getting along fine, I see, allbeit from a seubjective perspective that the vast majority of South Africans simply want to get on with their lives and live, work and study together. Nation Building can never rightfully said to include inuendo about this race or that race. Our leaders should promote Ubuntu!

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Blurock (12-Oct-12)

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## Dave A

I see nothing wrong with this picture.



The Class of 2012 (and with them our future) is looking good  :Smile: 

Provided the current crop of colour sensitive politicians do not infect them with their predjudice.

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Blurock (22-Oct-12)

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## Blurock

> I see nothing wrong with this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> The Class of 2012 (and with them our future) is looking good 
> 
> Provided the current crop of colour sensitive politicians do not infect them with their predjudice.


This looks more like Tutu and Mandela's Rainbow Nation. Time for the people to take South Africa back from the politicians. :Thumbup:

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## Citizen X

A very good morning to you Blurock! I couldn't agree more! South Africa is for all South Africans regardless of their race, religion, gender etc. A humanitarian can never have race in mind, if a man is hungry, you don't cross examine him as to his race or religion befor you give him something to eat, you simply help him!

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## pieksie

> This looks more like Tutu and Mandela's Rainbow Nation. Time for the people to take South Africa back from the politicians.


Rainbow nation is just a pipe dream.  It doesn't work ANYWHERE in the world.  How is it supposed to work in a third world country if it doesn't even work in the first world countries?

I just can't help being racist in this country and no..it's not because my parents told me to hate.  It is because we are being murdered every single day.

This country can go to hell.  Every day I get a little more gatvol to see another farm murder / attack.  With other words every day I get a little more racist.

It is just a matter of time before civil war starts.  The only question is when?  

But keep dreaming about a rainbow nation that never existed and never will.  If it'll make you feel better.. :Stick Out Tongue:

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## Citizen X

> Rainbow nation is just a pipe dream. It doesn't work ANYWHERE in the world. How is it supposed to work in a third world country if it doesn't even work in the first world countries?
> 
> I just can't help being racist in this country and no..it's not because my parents told me to hate. It is because we are being murdered every single day.
> 
> This country can go to hell. Every day I get a little more gatvol to see another farm murder / attack. With other words every day I get a little more racist.
> 
> It is just a matter of time before civil war starts. The only question is when? 
> 
> But keep dreaming about a rainbow nation that never existed and never will. If it'll make you feel better..


A very good afternoon to you Pieksie,
Perhaps I’m naïve, but I sincerely believe that Blacks, Whites, Indians and Coloureds can live, work and study together in peace and harmony. To understand your perspective better, I need to put myself in your position and simply ask myself: How would I feel and react given the present circumstance? I suppose if I were in your position I too will feel despondent! That being said, I think that we should not generalize and realize that in each community you’ll will people with an attitude of indifference. I think we should not only think of ourselves but also of our kids, the next generation. I think we need to work with what we’ve got. I’m willing to accept that some farm murders are racially motivated but not all! You see the criminal is an opportunist, he/she takes advantage of a certain set of circumstances. Take Lucky Dube for instance, the individuals that murdered and hijacked him were Black and he is Black. They didn’t hesitate to murder him on the basis of race; they murdered him all the same!
If we revisit the xenophobic attacks, one can clearly see the criminal element. They were not concerned about xenophobia either way, but they spotted an easy target! 
My ethos remains that people are people regardless of their race. I’m against any form of racism. I’m for content of character. I think that with the right leadership past injustice and bitterness that stems from such injustice can be resolved. I remain optimistic for the future! Civil war can never be a solution as it will destroy the lives we have. It will be a major set back.

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Dave A (22-Oct-12)

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## pieksie

> A very good afternoon to you Pieksie,
> Perhaps Im naïve, but I sincerely believe that Blacks, Whites, Indians and Coloureds can live, work and study together in peace and harmony. To understand your perspective better, I need to put myself in your position and simply ask myself: How would I feel and react given the present circumstance? I suppose if I were in your position I too will feel despondent! That being said, I think that we should not generalize and realize that in each community youll will people with an attitude of indifference. I think we should not only think of ourselves but also of our kids, the next generation. I think we need to work with what weve got. Im willing to accept that some farm murders are racially motivated but not all! You see the criminal is an opportunist, he/she takes advantage of a certain set of circumstances. Take Lucky Dube for instance, the individuals that murdered and hijacked him were Black and he is Black. They didnt hesitate to murder him on the basis of race; they murdered him all the same!
> If we revisit the xenophobic attacks, one can clearly see the criminal element. They were not concerned about xenophobia either way, but they spotted an easy target! 
> My ethos remains that people are people regardless of their race. Im against any form of racism. Im for content of character. I think that with the right leadership past injustice and bitterness that stems from such injustice can be resolved. I remain optimistic for the future! Civil war can never be a solution as it will destroy the lives we have. It will be a major set back.


I used to share your view.  And yes, there are bad white people as there is good black people.  No one can deny that fact, it is just common sense

Of course black people also gets murdered by blacks.  Whites murder whites.  That is not the point.

With a government that actively promotes racism.  That actually promotes hate speech and killing of whites it should be very concerning.

The majority of black south africans will always vote for the ANC.  Even educated ones feel they are obligated to vote for them because they destroyed the "evil apartheid".  So I guess you get what you vote for.  A terrorist organization with the slogan liberation before eduction it can't get any better than this.  

Why is Julius Malema STILL giving speeches under banners of the ANC YL and actually says blood will flow!?  Did the president or any members of the ANC speak out against this?  Did Mantashe not openly declared war against farmers by warning them another marikana will happen?

Yes, I would love for us to hold hands and sing lullabye's all day under the shinning bright sun.  But unfortunatly, I am a realist.  That dream died a long time ago.

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## Citizen X

> I used to share your view. And yes, there are bad white people as there is good black people. No one can deny that fact, it is just common sense
> 
> 
> With a government that actively promotes racism. That actually promotes hate speech and killing of whites it should be very concerning.
> 
> 
> Why is Julius Malema STILL giving speeches under banners of the ANC YL and actually says blood will flow!? Did the president or any members of the ANC speak out against this? Did Mantashe not openly declared war against farmers by warning them another marikana will happen?
> 
> Yes, I would love for us to hold hands and sing lullabye's all day under the shinning bright sun. But unfortunatly, I am a realist. That dream died a long time ago.


What is worrying is that Mugabe is actually having a say in our country through the mouth of Julius Malema. It seems that Julius Malema is in actual fact a mouth piece for Mugabe. Yes, indeed all songs that talk about killing anyone has no place in a Consititutional democracry. The Government is a custodian of the Constitution, they should no better than to use innuendo to make any community feel uneasy about their future, what happened, good or bad happened. We need to move on....

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## vieome

*A*rrogance *N*epotism *C*orruption, will that lead to racial harmony. 
Malcom X " the hate that hate produced" 

White Hate = Apartied=Black Hate =Farm deaths=white hate for farm deaths =civil war. Where the F does it end. It ends with YOU. Be the change you want to see.

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Blurock (22-Oct-12)

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## Citizen X

> *A*rrogance *N*epotism *C*orruption, will that lead to racial harmony. 
> Malcom X " the hate that hate produced" 
> 
> White Hate = Apartied=Black Hate =Farm deaths=white hate for farm deaths =civil war. Where the F does it end. It ends with YOU. Be the change you want to see.


Not just anyone will cite Malcolm X. The mere fact of you menting Malcolm X demonstrated that you a person with character! I'm actually very familiar with both Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey's life and writtings etc..
*You've pulled out from the dusty pages of history someone very significant and interesting*!
As Marley put it, " You running away, BUT, you can't run away from yourself! :Embarrassment:

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## Blurock

> *A*rrogance *N*epotism *C*orruption, will that lead to racial harmony. 
> Malcom X " the hate that hate produced" 
> 
> White Hate = Apartied=Black Hate =Farm deaths=white hate for farm deaths =civil war. Where the F does it end. It ends with YOU. Be the change you want to see.


It is like the little boy who threw the sea stars back into the sea. You can not save everyone, but it does matter for those who actually reach the water. If we want change, we have to imagine change and act the part. 

We can all influence the people around us in a positive way. We do not have to accept bad service. We do not have to accept corruption. We do not have to put up with nepotism and a bad government. We do not have to swear at other people or call them names. We can inform the illiterate about the lies politicians are feeding us. We can be strict, but fair to everyone. We can fight racism in all communities.

We can decide to build bridges or break down bridges. Where do you stand? Are you a builder or a breaker?

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Dave A (22-Oct-12)

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## pieksie

> It is like the little boy who threw the sea stars back into the sea. You can not save everyone, but it does matter for those who actually reach the water. If we want change, we have to imagine change and act the part. 
> 
> We can all influence the people around us in a positive way. We do not have to accept bad service. We do not have to accept corruption. We do not have to put up with nepotism and a bad government. We do not have to swear at other people or call them names. We can inform the illiterate about the lies politicians are feeding us. We can be strict, but fair to everyone. We can fight racism in all communities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We can decide to build bridges or break down bridges. Where do you stand? Are you a builder or a breaker?


Good luck with that!  By the way, it is not only illiterate people that vote for and believe the politicians lies.

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## Citizen X

> Good luck with that! By the way, it is not only illiterate people that vote for and believe the politicians lies.


Now here is where it gets bizarre, criminals can work together in a syndicate made up of Blacks, Whites, Indians and Coloureds. They work very well together when committing crime regardless of their individual race, so why can't people of different races who are not criminals also work together???

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## Dave A

I find you get what you expect most of the time.

Personally I'm not fussed about what race a person is at all, and strangely enough most of the time the people I meet aren't bothered by it either. Even the few that do seem to think it's an issue seem to settle down after a while. Unfortunately there are exceptions, but they don't seem to stay in my life very long for some reason.

 :Yawn:  Can't say I miss 'em.

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## Blurock

> Now here is where it gets bizarre, criminals can work together in a syndicate made up of Blacks, Whites, Indians and Coloureds. They work very well together when committing crime regardless of their individual race, so why can't people of different races who are not criminals also work together???


We are my friend, we are. You just do not read about co-operation and good stuff in the newspapers because it is not sensation and therefore it is not newsworthy.

We even watch sport together. At the 2010 Currie Cup final at Kings Park I was surrounded by mostly coloured WP fans, painted faces, colourful outfits and flags, the lot. I was expecting the worst, but these guys were so well behaved, even when they were losing. There was a lot of heckling right from the start, but these guys were real gentlemen. Unlike their team who were real hooligans the last time they played here.   :Whistling:

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Citizen X (24-Oct-12)

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## pieksie

> Now here is where it gets bizarre, criminals can work together in a syndicate made up of Blacks, Whites, Indians and Coloureds. They work very well together when committing crime regardless of their individual race, so why can't people of different races who are not criminals also work together???


Well, I guess business is business lol!!

Can we work together?  No, how long have we been a democracy now??  

I was listening to Jacaranda and this guy who owns the good SA news website (or some website like that) who was most optimistic for the future of this country is not even so optimistic anymore.  Although he claims he will always be positive, he did express some doubts.

Like I said in a previous post.  Multi culturism doesnt even work in a first world country.

Will we ever be able to live peacefully together?  No, not with our countries history (think a bit further than apartheid) and definitely never with this government!!!  Look what is happening to other african countries.  "Freedom fighters" almost always turns to dictators.

Just my opinions..  :Surrender:

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## Citizen X

> Well, I guess business is business lol!!
> 
> Can we work together? No, how long have we been a democracy now?? 
> 
> I was listening to Jacaranda and this guy who owns the good SA news website (or some website like that) who was most optimistic for the future of this country is not even so optimistic anymore. Although he claims he will always be positive, he did express some doubts.
> 
> Like I said in a previous post. Multi culturism doesnt even work in a first world country.
> 
> Will we ever be able to live peacefully together? No, not with our countries history (think a bit further than apartheid) and definitely never with this government!!! Look what is happening to other african countries. "Freedom fighters" almost always turns to dictators.
> ...


Good morning Pieksie :Embarrassment: 

One must appreciate that the youth of today have totally different perspectives. I havent done any quantitative or qualitative research on this matter but I have observed at numerous occasion at cinemas, restaurants and other social settings an increase in interracial couples!
*The vast majority of our youth dont even care about politics.* I agree that our Government in its present form is a shocking of a shambles of maladministration. _The vast majority of service delivery protests comprise Black individuals and their anger is directed at the Government not anyone else._ I really understand where you coming from, If I were really in your position; and lets state that position, there is reverse racism, constant innuendo about particular races from our leaders and the threat of land reform, then I must be honest, Ill feel very despondent!
Take the Marikina massacre for instance, the use of Cyrils concomitant force is now called in question i.e. did he mean that the police must shoot those miners??? Its too early to tell, but it seems like the media is involved. He is a board member of that mine. We have a class struggle in South Africa, the rich versus the poor and not actually a current racial strugglejust my 2 cents
This sentiment was expressed in song in the early 90s by 2 Pac in the States..he attempted to highlight the true racial situation there
I see no changes all I see is racist faces 
*Misplaced hate makes disgrace to races*  :Frown: 
We under I wonder what it takes to make this 
One better place, let's erase the wasted 
Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right 
'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight 
And only time we chill is when we kill each other 
*It takes skill to be real, time to heal each other* 

 :Embarrassment:

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## tec0

In the end it doesnt really matters. It is clear to me that if you are a minority the worst possible death will be waiting for you. Just look at the news the facts are as they are. Our government denies that minority murders are a problem thus clearly stating they dont care much. 

It is also fact that despite the reality that slavery originated in other countries NOT SOUTH AFRICA and YES white people example the Irish was oppressed and abused by the mighty English Crown.  It is simply dismissed.

The reality is the minority in South Africa is blamed for everything but no one takes the time and research to see where it all started. 

Even today the English Crown remains bitter towards the minority South African and this is clearly shown in their absence. The UN doesnt act why? Simple who controls the UN? The same people that killed children and women in concentration camps back in the day. The same people that made it law that a newlywed wife must first sleep with the Land lord.

Do the bit and go study the real history not the BS that they sell you. Go on chat-rooms ask people about the real history, the real stories. There you will find the truth as it really is. Not the truth that was written by the victor. 

it is not about race it is about the supper powerful rich against the poor... That is the reality

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## pieksie

I actually do agree with you guys.  It is more about class struggle!  The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer.  

The kettle have boiled over a long time ago.  All over the world.

I am a big "conspiracy theorist" -->  :Crazy:   Jip, one of those!  And I truly believe if you look at what the super elite is planning that everything makes more sense.  It is all about the NWO.

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## Citizen X

> I actually do agree with you guys. It is more about class struggle! The rich gets richer and the poor gets poorer. 
> 
> The kettle have boiled over a long time ago. All over the world.
> 
> I am a big "conspiracy theorist" -->  Jip, one of those! And I truly believe if you look at what the super elite is planning that everything makes more sense. It is all about the NWO.


If you like conspiracy theories, we may have a very big one unfolding from the banks. Have a look at what Scotty has to say at this link:
http://www.theforumsa.co.za/forums/s...Big-Case/page2

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## ChrisNG53

Vanash -- you are conflating two (2) different issues.  The first has to do with social cohesion and the other has to do with governance.  
Still, it is not surpsring that you have conflated them as they are inter-related.
I have posted a thread dealing with this critically important matter in July.  It is titled - "Social Cohesion Conference --- doomed denialism".

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Citizen X (03-Nov-12)

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## Citizen X

> Vanash -- you are conflating two (2) different issues. The first has to do with social cohesion and the other has to do with governance. 
> Still, it is not surpsring that you have conflated them as they are inter-related.
> I have posted a thread dealing with this critically important matter in July. It is titled - "Social Cohesion Conference --- doomed denialism".


Good morning Chris,

Will visit your thread :Embarrassment:

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