# Social Category > General Chat Forum >  smokers!

## tec0

> Cape Town - Parliamentarians gave their final seal of approval on Thursday to legislation which will make it harder for smokers to indulge their habit in the open air, at home or in their cars.





> The amendment bill makes it an offence to smoke within a prescribed distance from a window, ventilation inlet, doorway or entrance to a public place - and introduces a fine of R500 for breaches.





> Employers who fail to protect non-smokers in the workplace would be liable for a fine of up to R100 000, a ten-fold increase on the previous penalty.


 Full story here: http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthA...ng_laws_passed

In all honesty I am getting sick of this! Smokers must unite and start an action. This is victimizing the smoking population! I am not joking they are attacking innocent people outright. 

What about the bloody drunks that can drink and drive? What about the many road accidents that is linked to drinking and driving. You don’t see them getting in trouble, fact is you see them walk away with not even a slap on the writs! 

This is BS and that is the end of it. I am not even a smoker and this is upsetting me!  :Mad:

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BBBEE_CompSpec (30-Oct-09)

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## Dave A

The article is dated 2007  :Confused:

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BBBEE_CompSpec (30-Oct-09)

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## tec0

The law is in power now...

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BBBEE_CompSpec (30-Oct-09)

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## Candy Bouwer

Some intresting comments from group member on the South African Business network on linkedin
 :Bananadance:  :Bananadance:

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BBBEE_CompSpec (30-Oct-09)

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## Marq

I'm all for going through a door into the great outdoors and breathing in fresh air (polluted yes, but fresh as it gets) without inhaling clouds of smoke from people who cannot understand how their habit affects others.

Bring it on.
And Yes bring on the same for the drink and driving offenders.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (30-Oct-09)

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## twinscythe12332

I do think this is an inconvenience, and some people would feel wronged by this. But when you think about it, there is reasoning behind banning it. The world seems to be encountering more and more health problems. Asthma is everywhere. Second hand smoking has been proven to be more damaging than direct smoking is. would you let some random walk up to your kid and stick him with a needle full of "happy medicine?" or someone come by and put a 6 shooter to your head? click! this time... smokers have always felt victimised. they've just never been the victim.

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## Debbiedle

I'm with TecO on this.  Freedom of choice blah blah etc.  Have some legislation but if you push it this hard all you end up doing is creating more problems.  Smokers will soon be joining the ousted marijuana users who have joined the heavy drug users, all because what they do is socially (and legally) unacceptable - end result? Even more social problems.

I have the same theory with marijuana, legalise it.  Makes it easier to come by and this means the kids who try it, do not necessarily have to get it from drug pushers who have the sale of other more dangerous and lucrative drugs as their goal.  

If we carry on like this we will be pushing the cigarette smokers to the same extremes.

I personally don't believe legislation is a deterrent.  In a 'wildwest' country like this I think it is seen more as a challenge!!

For decades now we have been telling teenagers especially,  don't smoke, don't drink, don't have sex, it's illegal and bad for you...are we winning?...I rest my case.

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## Marq

Its fine having a freedom of choice and I am all for that. 

But what about the non smokers freedom of choice. Smokers generally do not realise the effects of their habit. Why should I as a non smoker have to smoke as well when sitting enjoying the outside part of a restaurant. 

If the smokers have some consideration and do it in their own environment then go for it. If a drunk winds his/her way to your table while you are having a meal and coughs and splutters all over you - what would you say - totally unacceptable yet smoke has the same effect and smokers think this is ok.

I dont think the debate should be about legalisation of these substances - it should be about the space in which you carry out your habit. Knock yourself out, smoke drink drugs and whatever is great in your own space but when you affect others and their freedom of choice its not on.

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## daveob

> Why should I as a non smoker have to smoke as well when sitting enjoying the outside part of a restaurant


I agree. Why is the relaxing outside tables with the nice view always 'reserved' for the smokers ? 

As non-smokers, we have to sit inside because the restaurant doesn't want to spend on an indoor smoking area.

I also totally agree with the new law that bans smoking in cars with kids. Especially when in Jhb, I often saw a car packed full of kids with the driver puffing away and the window open only a slight crack because it's cold outside !!

And I think that smoking on the beach should also be banned - every weekend we, with 2 young kids, end up downwind because the smokers just don't give a hoot where they light up.

I am an ex-smoker, but I feel the smokers themselves have bought this upon themselves as a result of their majority having little or no consideration for others.

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## tec0

Right for starts I selected this old article to point out how long they have been working on this law. As I understand it, this law is now in full power. The thing is smokers don’t bother me that much. It is on a Friday night when I get home from work that I see all the drunk drivers speeding around and making skidpans of our roads. Now there are no traffic cops that even bother to stop them? 

Secondly what about car emissions? These gasses are also toxic and can kill you. However again our traffic cops are happy to stare at an old bus puffing black smoke with kids on their way to school. Then there is the “unwashed coals” that is used in “most townships” This stuff is poison but because it’s out of sight it is out of mind. 

Fact is smoking has therapeutic qualities. It is not healthy “like most medications if abused” but it does help with anger, stress and there is speculation that even helps people with depression. If you look at the effects of most anti-depression medications you will find that they can also be harmful to your health. 

Fact is smokers are visible and that is why the government will pick on them. If you look at illegal drugs in our aria it is scary because nothing is being done about it! So why not attack the illegal drug trade first? Simple it is harder work thus more difficult... 

I can also point out the steel plants and the mining industry and point out that the polusion they generate is deadly to us and nature but no one cares about this because they have money... 

This is wrong! And you know it. Why are the honest people always under attack? Criminals don’t care because nothing gets done to stop them so basically a mixed massage  :Confused:

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## wynn

Your pleasure is to smoke.
My pleasure is to drink beer.
The by product of your pleasure is second hand smoke.
The by product of my pleasure is 'piss'
If you promise not to exhale where I will not be inundated by your second hand smoke I promise not to piss where you will get splashed!

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## twinscythe12332

> Right for starts I selected this old article to point out how long they have been working on this law. As I understand it, this law is now in full power. The thing is smokers donât bother me that much. It is on a Friday night when I get home from work that I see all the drunk drivers speeding around and making skidpans of our roads. Now there are no traffic cops that even bother to stop them?


agreed. there aren't really patrols. just along the main roads. you have to complain and even that doesn't cause anything.




> Secondly what about car emissions? These gasses are also toxic and can kill you. However again our traffic cops are happy to stare at an old bus puffing black smoke with kids on their way to school. Then there is the âunwashed coalsâ that is used in âmost townshipsâ This stuff is poison but because itâs out of sight it is out of mind.


too right. I used to get POed about buses with those issues. and 4x4s. Problem is, most of them are PUBLIC transport and thus have "metropolitan" on their sides. ever seen a cop pull over a cop? about as likely to happen to the buses. Gov would have to get their s**t together properly to make that work.




> Fact is smoking has therapeutic qualities. It is not healthy âlike most medications if abusedâ but it does help with anger, stress and there is speculation that even helps people with depression. If you look at the effects of most anti-depression medications you will find that they can also be harmful to your health.


Therapeutic to the smoker, certainly. however, I do believe offence would be taken if someone started pushing anti-depressant meds down your throat.




> Fact is smokers are visible and that is why the government will pick on them. If you look at illegal drugs in our aria it is scary because nothing is being done about it! So why not attack the illegal drug trade first? Simple it is harder work thus more difficult...


absolutely. But no one is stupid enough to go out to a mall and blaze up a joint or pull out their kit and shoot up. 




> I can also point out the steel plants and the mining industry and point out that the polusion they generate is deadly to us and nature but no one cares about this because they have money...


incorrect. Plenty of people hate that it's happening. It's just that their power is greater than those people. The golden rule: he with all the gold, makes the rules.




> This is wrong! And you know it. Why are the honest people always under attack? Criminals donât care because nothing gets done to stop them so basically a mixed massage


Agreed. There shouldn't be a situation where one "wins" over the other. that's not right. This could have been handled differently. there could be better measures in place to combat this issue. they're not going for it. such is life.

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## Loman

My brother is a smoker and ever since he moved in with me, i've started to hate smokers more by the day.

I'm going to buy him a electric cigarette but perhaps there might be someone here who knows which one is a good choice.

I've had a look at www.electroniccigarettestore.co.za
and they seem pretty good at a reasonable price.

Any comments?

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## Marq

There is an electric solution.

Put his fingers, that have nothing to do but hold a smoke, into an electric socket.
Then he can really go up in smoke. Smells a bit for a while but problem goes away.

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## Loman

The problem doesn't go away, it just change, as in me going to jail.

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

Just to calrify, this Act was introduced and in operation as at June 1993, I presume Tesco by your comment, that it is took so long is related, to the new amendments introduced recently that have been promoted and given much publicity, as if new.

Naturally smokers will not like the rules and non smokers will be happy. Quite frankly the non smokers deserve this Protection. Smokers, in the majority are inconsiderate and could not care less, take how they litter, if you like cigarettes so much why do you throw it out the window? Why not use your car ashtray?Oh I forgot it stinks!!!
I am, obviously, a non smoker. I however actually HAD no problem with smokers, I have dated and lived with smokers and never had issue. My stance has changed drastically since the new amendment. As a restaurant operator I obviously have the misfortune to have to deal with the issue - frist hand. It is absolutely ridicolous the attitude smokers have. I never made the law, but I have to enforce it I am faced with the big fine, not the delinquent who refuses to observe the law. I have had people like school kids trying to hide the cigarette, lean over the wall and say we not on premises, tell their wife "to keep chips" and a bundle of other similiar acts. Face the facts people, this is the law and thats that. the argument of what about this what about that is once again an indication of the mindset of a 3 year old. It is the same as getting a parking fine or a speeding fine, you break the rules you get punished thats it.
As to the restaurants building smoking sections, that is indeed a valuable insight. Smokers will sart making their decision to go where they can smoke and that is fair enough, and restaurants will see this as a competitive advantage, and see the outlay as an investment.

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

I am undergoing chemo for something I didn't allow to grow. I use three asthma pumps per day due to the fact I cannot breath where smokers are. Some of my rights to life and privacy are being infringed. Everybody has the right to life. It is like a murderer killing a person, denying him his right to life, and then begging for mercy from the gallows because he has the right to life. Think of us who do not smoke.

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Not really. In SA you need a body and ashes don't count.

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## carm

:Big Grin:  I like the last reply!

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## tec0

I get it really I do... Still I have seen how smoking can help with anger and yes, the people would have been abusive otherwise. This is the point I am making. Smoking is more than just a bad habit it has itâs positive side to it. You cannot argue when it comes to the deferent effects alcohol has to smoking. 

Secondly facilitate smoking is to put them in a room with filtered air-conditioning so that they can smoke without any negative effect to us the none smokers. If you worked at the mines you know how many people smoke because of stress and nothing else. That is the truth! 

No you can go about and scream murder but I donât agree with a lot of stuff. Alcohol is a bigger danger then smoking and is just as addictive... the only deference is people that smoke and stops becomes irritated and basically unbearable.  :Banghead:

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

I agree. Every person to their own. But have you noticed that smokers only smoke around non smokers to aggravate us. What gets me with the smokers law is that we have fines in place and children under the age of 18 are still allowed to purchase cigarettes.

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## tec0

Well teenagers have access to a lot more than just cigarettes.  :Frown:  I am talking about hardcore drugs, this little fact is almost never mentioned but take into consideration that drugs is relatively easy to get. The truth is we have more pressing concerns then second-hand smoke at this point in time...

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09), Dave A (31-Oct-09)

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## sterne.law@gmail.com

The stance of other issues seems so defensive. Discipline starts with small steps. Comapnies who let poor timekeeping slip, end up with bigger and bigger problems, because of the small step. Quite frankly we know there are drug problems amongst many other things, but surely if you are honest with yourself, and put aside your rather passionate defense of the smoking laws, if we as a nation show disrespect and disregard for a simple law like the smoking law, parking laws etc,etc then the more harsh laws woudl almost certainly be a foregone conclusion, to fall by the way side.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09)

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## Chatmaster

Just want to raise my opinion about this issue, cause it gets me hot around the collar.

I would like to see any kind of evidence that smoking has therapeutic benefits for someone that has depression, as far as I know the exact opposite is true. Nicotine messes up the chemical balances in the brain end of story.

Another nonsense story that completely peeves me is this claim that 2nd hand smoke is doing more harm to non smokers than smoking is doing to smokers. Yyyyeeezzzzz, how logic is that? A smoker breathes in 2nd hand smoke AND inhale his own cigarette.

Smoking is bad, end of story. It has no place in society. Unfortunately only once your lungs start wheezing and you realise that you are possibly looking at an illness like emphysema or lung cancer, it is often too late to do something about it. Then to have to tell your loved ones that truly care about you that you have successfully committed suicide...

Is it someone's own choice to be so stupid? Certainly is, as long as he does it in his own private place without effecting others. So does the law effect it. It doesn't you are either stupid or not. Protect the rest of the people that doesn't smoke makes sense if they want the protection. If I have a braai at my house and you want to fit about all the smokers, then don't come or just leave, what I do at my house is my business, what I do in a public place however is everyone else's business too, so don't smoke!

About legislation? IMO legislation is supposed to play a role of protecting the rights and lives of people. It is supposed to create a society that are in harmony. It is also supposed to create freedom. Instead what legislation is used for in countries like the USA and SA is to make more money to the selected few and to take the rights away from the average person. 

Increasing sin taxes is driving me mad too. It doesn't have any effect on the habits of smokers or drinkers that are having problems acting maturely and that is probably not even the real reason it has been implemented. It is all about money end of story. If you drink to much and then go ape, it is a conscious decision that you are making and you are a criminal, go to jail! If you smoke where it effects the lives of non-smokers you are braking the law, go to jail. Why increase prices? Simple lets pocket more money! British American Tobaco is increasing their profits daily, daily more kids start smoking but they will tell us statistically that smoking is decreasing, nonsense! Can't recall the exact % but I think it was 22% of SA smokes, I can't recall anyone asking me if I smoked, even if a they did I would have said no, I mean it is private... so this stat is a BIG thumbsuck! I do not drink like an idiot, but I like having my Klipdrift and Coke when having a braai, what the hell is my sin? If I get in my car and drive arround on a public road drunk, it becomes a sin and a crime. So enforce the law there, what is all this other crap?

BTW: If you want the cheapest price for an e-cigarette please have a look at www.gomushroom.co.za they also offer an affiliate program and mlm system so you can also make some bucks of them. These other places are ripping smokers off.

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09)

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## tec0

Such anger...  :No: 

Good or bad, I still argue get drunks out of their cars and off the roads. This is my ultimate argument. When you hire people it is normally stated on their CV that they are smoking or none smoking but what about their drinking habits?

In my lifetime I have seen bad accidents at mining facilities that was based on a drunken operator. In casinos you are not allowed to test staff for drugs but you can ban staff from smoking a âlegalâ cigarette? You tell me how that works. It is ok to use drugs but it is not ok to smoke? 

Lastly I saw a man that was victim to a drunk driver and it took him 6 months to learn how to walk again and his daughters had to teach him how use the TV remote. So donât start with me about stupidity... Fact is smokers are easy soft targets but drunk you will not dare to confront because they will lose control and most probably you will end up in hospital drowning in your own blood. 

I just happen to know of a study that was done at Stanford  and researchers have discovered that low doses of nicotine - a major component of cigarette smoke - appear to promote new blood vessel growth (in mice). (âNicotine to be used to treat heart disease,â Reuters Health, HealthCentral.com - Sept. 2000) These people must be stupid after all it is only Stanford...  :Huh: 

Fact is I have seen smokers that stopped and they picked up weight within months... Fact is almost everything can have a negative effect on you including clean water so...  :Stick Out Tongue:

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09)

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## carm

My parents have been living together and working together for 30yrs. my Dad was a smoker until a month ago. day in and out my mother was subjected to second hand smoke. If second hand smoke is so bad then why did my dad have a triple bypass and not her? Why when you go for a check up or to hospital they ask if you smoke and not ask the question have you been subjected to second hand smoke?

Another thing that bugs me is cancer. Smoking causes cancer. Ok then how come healthy non smokers get cancer too. I know 3 non smoking households that the man of the house has died of cancer.

Smoking is a dirty habit. Agreed. Smoking Areas stink, they remind me of a jewish gas chamber. but forbidding smoking in an outside open area is wrong. It is a money making scheme. 

Drinking is a dirty habit as well. but we will open bottle store on sundays. This makes me question; does he goverment receive more revenue off alcohol then ciggarettes?

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09)

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

When smoking legislation was brought out, it was there to protect the non-smoker. Government was contemplating putting more stricter rules into place but wanted to first see if there initial laws would have been obeyed first. Unfortunately, the human being is a very unruly being that doesn't like to be told what to do. Especially when it goes against the grain of our lifely pleasures.

Just for the records: More cigarettes are sold than alcohol. You might find that strange. There are more rules on the selling of alcohol than there are on the selling of cigarettes. So, as far as revenue is concerned, I would think the government made more money on cigarettes than alcohol.

Since the ANC has come into power, and brought there style of free market enterprise into place, has the problem with alcohol and smoking come into being. ( Even more strange is the fact that the acronym ANC is still not in the dictionaries). One group claims the other groups is to blame for what is claiming more lives and vice versa. Majority of smokers drink alcohol and the same with the majority of those drinking alcohol smoke. It makes you think.

As far as cancer is concerned: CANCER is a blood-line curse. You need to make it grow. You need to give it reason to grow. In my case it was hereditary. The only problem is that, for five generations, each generation the oldest male died before the age of 47. My Great Great Grand Father, Great Grand Father, Grand Father and Father died at the age of 46. My brother died at the age of 35. My nephew lived through it, went through remission with it, and is still alive today. From my father to my Great Great Grand Father they were the oldest and had Liver as well as Lung Cancer. My brother had the same but was the second oldest, as I am the oldest. My nephew was the oldest. They drank alcohol and smoked heavily. I do neither. Yet I still have cancer. Cancer is not a death penalty and can be controlled. But, as in the case of aids, why should someone else wake up the monster in your body. 

Why people have triple bypasses has no reflection on someone else. I don't like second hand or even first hand smoke because I don't like the smell it leaves or the bad taste it leaves behind in my mouth and on my body. I have a right to life, privacy and clean air. You are infringing on my rights. The same with alcohol.

If you want to smoke, by all means do so. BUT!!! Do it where it will not effect a non-smoker. Start being more responsible. Just because you might be married with or without children does not give you the right to infringe on the rest of the family because you are a slave to nicotine. Think of others for a change. The world will be much better when you do.

[Just a foot note: I use public transport such as the train. Although smoking and the consumption of alcohol is banned on the train, it doesn't stop the informal vendors from selling the products on the train. Just because there is a moratorium ban of selling alcohol or cigarettes to minors, does it stop your local cafeteria from selling both products to minors]

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## tec0

This is true; my cousin is also facing the fight of her life. She was diagnosed with brain-cancer when she was only 29 and now age 35 she is still fighting but unlike other cancers this is attacking the brain and it is unfortunately progressive... Was her smoking habit to blame? Or was it her abusive boyfriend? Or is it just bad luck... 

I cannot answer that but what I do know is that my friendâs grandmother past away age 85 and she was a smoker. She started smoking age 18 and I cannot tell you how much she smoked but in the end it was just old-age and organs not wanting to work anymore. Nothing found like cancer...

I feel before we scream health it is known that even mobile phones might have bad effects on us and we must ask the leaders in health and medicine to clear things up because if it comes to health I feel we are all individuals and we need to know what is true and what is not. 

I live with five smokers and I am a none-smoker. But I am the guest in their house and that is the end of the story basically. I cannot demand them to change their livelihood just because it is bothering me...

Secondly I do feel that smoking facilities is a must because we do facilitate other bad habits like Bars so why not give the smokers just a little place where they can safely light-up and enjoy the things they want to enjoy... It is still a free country in the end of the day. So why not facilitate our freedom to do what we want to do?

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BBBEE_CompSpec (31-Oct-09)

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

When my father was a youngster he received a packet of cigarettes and a dozen beers for his 13th birthday. He completed his Standard six and went into his trade at Rillstone Motors. He qualified on time.

for the next 27 years he would smoke two packets of cigarettes and consume up to two bottles of whiskey per day. We as children had to watch as my father slowly committed suicide. At the age of 13 years my brother started smoking and drinking. At the age of 17 my sister started drinking and smoking. I started drinking at 17 years of age. I have never smoked. I was involved in a serious motorbike accident while under the influence of alcohol. I decided against taking substances that can control me so I gave up drinking when I was 20. I have not regretted my decision.

At 40 my father gave up both drinking and smoking due to a traumatic incident. He claimed just before he died that it was the best six years of his entire life. The damage, however, had been done. four years after he gave up, they found he was terminally ill.

He continued to work for another eleven months. He was bedridden for a further six months. On May 23, 1983 my father gave up the ghost and allowed his spirit it's freedom. My mom and dad had just celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary. They had 19 years of bickering, bashing and swearing, with the last six years making up for all that lost time.

I would have thought that my brother and sister would have learnt from it. But they didn't. I used to be woken up by my sister-in-law all hours of the night. I lived with my wife in the deep south of Johannesburg, while they lived near Rooihuiskraal. There were times when I just made it to the house, through him in the back of the ambulance and rushed him into Eugene Marais Hospital near Valhalla. It didn't help. The disease was there and no doctor was strong enough to rid him of it. On February 9, 1996 the doctor's told him he was terminal after performing an operation on him. On February 15, 1996 he went to visit his mother-in-law with his wife. While out in the front garden he poured petrol over himself and set himself alight. His wife tried in vain to put out the flames. By the time they had put out the fire his body had 95% third degree burns. He would live another nine hours before his body would finally succumb to renal failure and he would pass away. He had followed my father's agony and the fact he was a burden to many. He did not want the family to suffer the same.

At the age of 16 my nephew started to smoke and drink. He had witnessed his father's suicide when he was eleven. No lessons were learnt. The only difference he was younger and much stronger. His mother wasn't going to lose another loved one. At the age of 19 my nephew was diagnosed with liver and testicular cancer. he went through chemo. He went into remission and is very much alive and well today. He is now married to a polish girl and living in London.

I was diagnosed with Bone Marrow TB in both hips at the age of 44. I underwent chemo and lived through it. I don't drink or smoke and therefore had the strength to overcome.  I am now a proud 50. I have achieved what no other Higley in my father's strain of family has achieved in the last five generations. But not without the curse. I have now been diagnosed with Liver Cancer. I am overcoming once again. I am facing chemo once again. I have much to share and God wants me on earth for a reason. Hopefully He will tell me why soon. 

I write articles on what is expected of me. How God has delivered me out of the mouth of the dragon, not once, but a dozen or more times. I have lived through a crippling accident while on duty at work. I have lived through a death defying motor vehicle accident. There is a reason why God wants me to live. 

Why am I telling you this? Your sister is going through a terrible time at the moment. Brain Cancer is not a controllable disease. She needs encouragement to face her future. I am ready to go home should He decide I have had enough on this earth. I must admit I am very tired. But like I said I have an extremely active brain that knows no end. I also believe that you had to cross my path. I am also a guest in Birchleigh. I have to accept my circumstances. Otherwise I would work myself to death. God wants me alive, not dead. He has given me an amazing amount of talents. He has given you a lot of talents. You just didn't know it.

To summarize it all. Everyone on this Forum has been called to be here. Every one of us has something to share. Every one of us has been talented in a different way. Don't take your talents for granted. You are special. Your sister is special. You are going to witness many miracles through her illness. And even if the good Lord does call her home you will see other miracles take place because of it. God knows what He is doing.

He commands us to love the smoker and rebuke the smoking. The same with the person who consumes alcohol. We must stop bickering and concentrate at whats on hand.

I am sorry I had to take the long route to explain myself, but I feel relieved that I did. It has taken a load off my chest. Thanx for giving me the time and for listening.

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Dave A (01-Nov-09), daveob (01-Nov-09)

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## Frankincense

....Everybody has to die ..physically....accept it!

@ BBBEE_CompSpec : "But have you noticed that smokers only smoke around non smokers to aggravate us."

Nah ..you shouldn't generalise like that..not a good karmic idea.... :Innocent: 

"There is a reason why God wants me to live" .....there is also a reason why God wills you to die, so be nice to smokers....

Psalm 18:8 (King James Version)
"There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it."

Please just make sure that in all your wisdom, and research, God himself does not materailize as a smoker... appearing in clouds of smoke....lest yours and other's days become accursed
 :Kissing2: 


Happy Judging folks...

 :Stupid:

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Shortly after I posted this article on the Forum SA, my niece notified me that my nephew in London has once again found a malignant growth on his kidney. The doctors have stated it is curable. He is only 25.

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

I now can see why Dave says that this is not a religious site. I have to fully agree with him. I have made my point. I'll leave it there.

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## Frankincense

....religion...defined as the greek word "religio"...meaning "Bond"....if this is not a site for humans with a bond with a God.....then I would have to leave you as "bondless"...and that in itself is rather harsh...so be nice to believers and bindfull fellow forum members irrespective of an individuals perception...reality rules!!!!

When you realize that your very "religio" / bond with your Creator gave you/them  the understanding to comprehend the scientific knowledge that it is thus able to  cure  your niece, and how it is cured for the doctors performing the procedures, is from God himself, you will learn to repsect religion in all it's   aspects.....and bear in mind He is present on this site and the WWW..you may have a positive day!!!!
 :Slap:

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## Chatmaster

Just like to share that I am a smoker myself. Been smoking for nearly 19 years. Started when I was in the Police. About 2 months ago I was told by our doctor that I will have to stop smoking as I will definitely end up with emphysema. The x-rays clearly showed the damage to my lungs. 

Since then I scaled down dramatically. Quit for about 3 days, then caved again. ATM I am on the e-sig, but it remains a battle as the e-sig simply aint the same as the real deal. All that I am used to, daily routines everything has changed. I hate the way it has enslaved me as it makes me feel pathetic at times.

In the time I have been a smoker I never once thought it was truly that dangerous, guess I simply made myself believe that it wasn't as bad. My parents both smoked so did my older brothers, one still does. There was always a reason not to quit. Now that the reason is real it is upsetting my life terribly and making my focus go completely haywire.

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## Frankincense

....spiritual health and physical health are 2 TOTALLY  different animals.....cherish the spiritual needs Chatmaster...they are rare indeed.... :Kissing2:

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Just for interest sake, when you, Francois, have the time please read this article.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-do-people-hate-God

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## Frankincense

...just for God's sake: From your suggestion: "God is not asking you to understand Him but to obey and enjoy  His presence amongst us." :Slap: 

Now why would you draw my attention to *why people hate Him*?

....so uncool..... :Stupid: 

It's you who has issue with smokers..not me... :Shoot: 

The infamous generalisation :"But have you noticed that smokers only smoke around non smokers to aggravate us."


@ BBBEE what what...."Hopefully He will tell me why soon."...make sure you listen and don't speak or post when spoken too....lest ye miss the mesaage...


 :Gunsmilie:

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Like I have already said. I am done with this subject. It has exhausted me. Its no longer my issue but the governments. They must sort it out as I am one person. Its also not my duty.

By the way: Just for interest sake, Are you a smoker?

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## Frankincense

@ anyone supporting BBBEE:

"Untill the colour of a man's skin matters no more than the colours of his eye's, it will be* WAR*"....Fire!!!   ...yes, :Slap: , this applies to legislation aswell....God bless the multicultural youth of Africa!!!! Selah!!!

Tetragramatton Rocks!!!!!

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## Dave A

> I now can see why Dave says that this is not a religious site.


Maybe I should clarify that (not aimed at anyone in particular - just an expansion).

My departure point is religion is peripheral to the main theme. This does not mean it's excluded in conversation. For some members religion is an integral part of their being so some religious perspective is inevitable. I simply would not want to see it become the "battleground" of the debate. Francois's, yours and others' religious perspective does come through from time to time and that's just fine. It adds to our understanding of your paradigm.

Somewhere along the way I said that whilst we might not always agree with what someone else is saying, every perspective is *valid* and needs to be respected as such. It adds to our understanding of each other even if it doesn't pursuade us to another's particular point of view.

When you step back from detail, there is enough commonality across religions that for the main purpose of this site one's particular religious persuasion should not become a major issue. I'd really like to see it stay that way. Let's keep it to friendly sparring on the fringes, please.

@Francois - sharp as always, my friend. Fire, brimstone and smoke indeed  :Big Grin:

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Frankincense (04-Nov-09)

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## Frankincense

"I am done with this subject. It has exhausted me. " .....Yeah...their eyes shall shut at the voice of the Lord, their ears shall close and they shall grow weary at His voice....FIRE!!!


What does it matter if I am a smoker or not?...it's the Lords position you should    research!!!!...seeing as you refer to his scripts...... :Slayer: 


Welcome to TFSA!!!

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## BBBEE_CompSpec

Thanks for being Devil's Advocate.

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## Frankincense

....the day we hand over anythng to a worldly government for  adjudication...woe be earth!...


May 666 consume those who handover anything as sacred as the the adjudication of those appearing in clouds of smoke to governments drivin and funded by capitalistic profit driven Corprotocracies....
..they will fall at His humble feet....


Fools I say.... :Zyfingerdance:

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