# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  What are the Electrical Compliance Certificate Requirements

## MikeS

Hello all

I have recently bought a house in PE and the electrical certicicate has been issued. On closer inspection (a laymans opioion) there are some areas which concern me. :Confused: 

I would like to know where I can obtain a copy of the requirements for an electrical certificate or better still if there is a qualified person in PE who would take a look through the house to give his oppinion on the matter ( I would be prepaired to pay for this)??

I have pictures that I can post if you are interested to see what I am concerned about.

Thanks
MikeS

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## murdock

my advice is to check if the inspector is eca registered and if so contact your local eca (electrical contractors ass.)office...if you dont have any joy 

post the pics with all your queries on this website...lets see what we can do...there are a few knowledgable people on this site who might be able to help you.

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## AndyD

> I have pictures that I can post if you are interested to see what I am concerned about.


Pictures will provoke more interest (and might be entertaining). Seriously though you can get any licensed/registered electrician to perform another COC from scratch for a minor financial outlay and just compare the results with the first one you got.

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## skatingsparks

Post pics, we all enjoy therm!  You'll get a lots of opinions.

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## murdock

so long as you dont have pics like this to show us because then it is just too late...this picture is of aircon connection gone bad...it gutted the entire granny flat...the aircon exploded and piece that blew off the front took the kitchen cupboards off the wall...from the explosion...one of the most common aircon connections the one hanging half way down the wall because the cable was tooo short to reach the plug...so they just put a connector block and extend it...this is the result



or this one which is a connection screeded into the floor...when i tried to stop the builder from completing the screed...i was asked what all the fuss is about...this is a supply cable feeding the main DB...but because it was a bit short they joined a 6 mm twin and earth with an open back 4x4 metal box(yes skrewits not ferrols and just twisted the earth wire) they went ahead and completed the floor.



or this one which i found after hours of tracing the circuit fault...the cable was too short but no problem to this electrician ("a cut above the rest" of us as his ad indicated eeeeish) i had to chip the wall to find this box then found the connector block next to the junction box which was causing the problem



let me stop hijacking your post...maybe one day i will start a thread just with all the scary pics i see on a daily basis...and i ask myself why dont we see more fires...are our circuit still over rated even though we have reduced plugs to 2,5 mm instead of 4 mm...could we get away with 1.5 mm...or do you think thats pushing it

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## MikeS

Thanks everyone who posted here, I have contacted the ECA and sent a copy of the Certificate as well as the pics to them to get their opinion, once I hear from them I will put the pics on the forum.

MikeS :Cool:

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## MikeS

I also understand that the requirements for the certificate have been drastically reduced some months ago, is this correct??

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## AndyD

> I also understand that the requirements for the certificate have been drastically reduced some months ago, is this correct??


Drastically reduced in what respect? I don't understand, the installation standards (SANS0142) are still the same.

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## MikeS

Okay, maybe I missunderstood the agent and conveyencing Atorney, it could be the requirements have been changed in the last 12 months??

This is what I am being told when I complaint to the above 2 parties. 

Here are some pictures which concern me and please comment on them if you feel they do not comply...

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## MikeS

Can someone please explain to me how to attach pictures...??

Thanks.

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## MikeS



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## AndyD

> 


Yep,it's non-compliant and shouldn't have been issued a COC. There's several obvious issues such as no labeling, the twisted earth wires, the earth leakage breaker not in an enclosure, the rats nest at the back speaks for itself, the DB looks like it's too high to be easily accessible and it's a bit hazy in the background but the earth bonding on the hot water cylinder looks like it's lacking. There's probably many more issues if this is typical of the rest of the installation.

Get a reputable electrician to do another COC inspection from scratch before someone gets injured or worse..

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## bergie

eish! dodgy to say the least, although circuit breakers with shrouds are legal.i would fail the complete d.b. and quote on a new surface d.b.
no earth leakage neutral bar,no earth bar,what are those twin+earths going to the pre pay meter? 
there are no changes in the requirements that would make any of those faults acceptable.it has only got more strict.

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## Justloadit

And the way the prepaid meter is wired, it is so simple to by pass, that no one would even notice that there is a bypass in that mangle.

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## AndyD

> ....what are those twin+earths going to the pre pay meter?


I wondered the same thing but I cleaned up the photo and it looks like they go into the trunking below the energy dispenser and not actually into it.

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## murdock

what i see is an old electrical system which if it had not been tampered with or had additions (rewire etc) would noprmally have passed as a pre xyz date...but unfortunetly the twin + e is an absolute give away.

there are lots on installations in durban which look like that... with the meter box on the verandah wall with the old fuse box above it...the catch is...as soon as you add to the instalaltion or modify it you need to bring it up to todays standards.

something else to remember...untidy wiring is not illegal.

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## MikeS

Thank you everyone for your comments, I have just bought the house and and when I moved in it had this as "passed" electrical installation. I will be taking this further and will keep you all informed.

Mike

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## murdock

do you have a valid yellow 6 page certificate of compliance (which you keep...not a copy) without this document you dont have a leg to stand on...and it could be possible that a COC was never issued.

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## MikeS

I do have a copy emailed to me by the conveyancing attorney, They still have the original as transfer has not gone through yet.

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## murdock

in that case go to the previous ownerand make sure he sorts it out...before the transfer goes thru.

i would pay someone to do an inspection report...to verify you concerns...as i have mentioned before...i still cannot believe that people trust the seller to do a COC for the biggest investment they are likely to make in their entire life.

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## MikeS

I have made an appointment to have a electrician who has been referred to me, come to the house today to do an inspection, ECA will be contacting me on Thursday as well.

Thanks to all your input, I will keep you posted.

Mike

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## AndyD

Sounds like a sensible next step. I suspect to failure list will be long but I'm sure you're prepared for that. I wouldn't rely on the ECA to arbitrate fairly, they are after all funded by their members so there's always a conflict of interests not too far below the surface. I wouldn't focus on the shortfallings of the first COC, you're likely to get tied up in politics and it's not to your advantage in the end. I would deal directly with the conveyancing attorney to get everything remedied at the sellers expense as per the new independent report you'll be getting and if the seller chooses to go after the first electrician then leave them to it.

Good luck.  :Smile:

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## MikeS

Report Back:

Had a meeting with the ECA and they requested an inspector from Dept Trade & Industry to attend. Electrician also attended and was hauled over the coals. COC in question has been made invalid. He has untill this Friday to make good or else!!! No sign of action yet.

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AndyD (01-Jun-11), Dave A (01-Jun-11)

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## AndyD

Sounds like a result from your side at least....... I'm impressed.  :Thumbup:  I wouldn't hold my breath for punitive action against the ''electrician'' although it would be nice to see.

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## Sparks

Hi Mike, I am afraid I have been too busy to regularly log in lately. Andy hit the nail on the head about ECA fairness. I was making my way to the bottom of the thread to let you know that you are welcome to contact me for correct impartial advice. The offer still stands however. Should you want more peace of mind after everything is ove,r you are welcome to contact me. I am available 24/7 to all my clients. If there is still something bothering you, feel free to ask & I will be glad to inform you of the regulatory requirements.

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## MikeS

A Final Word... 


Hello all, 

I was very impressed with the way the ECA dealt with this matter. Everything has been rectified and I have a new DB (which I paid for) The ECA here in PE seem to be on the ball to protect the consumer thereby their own name. The ECA even did an inspection on Friday to check on all the work the electrician did and all was found to be okay.

A BIG thank you to Simon an electrician who was referred to me, to come have a look see and make a list of problems to be seen to.

A word to all consumers, there are a lot of reputable electricians out there, but if you happen to need work done always check that the one you choose to do your work is registered with the Electical Contractors Association. If you have any disputes with the work done, you always have the ECA to fall back to. They will sort out the electrician or worst case, you have a claim against the ECA to have the work fixed.

Thanks to Andy and Sparks...

Mike

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AndyD (06-Jun-11)

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## Sparks

Glad to hear you came right and that the ECA have been jacked up here now. Maybe the bad publicity here has helped.
 Guess I will have to lay off them now.

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## AndyD

I was thinking the same thing Sparks, it's the first time in ages I've seen positive feedback about the ECA in a matter like this. Hats off to them and I hope it's not an isolated flash of efficiency on their part.

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## Dave A

Was the contractor who issued the invalid COC an ECA member?

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## murdock

> Was the contractor who issued the invalid COC an ECA member?


now this is an interesting question...

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## MikeS

yes he was... whether he still is, is the question....

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## murdock

the answer is simple...the reason you got a response from them (eca) was because if they didnt asssist you could have put in a claim for R15000 for bad workmanship ...and by the way this is the reason i am not registered with the ECA...i dont need to protect myself from my customers for crap workmanship.

i am gona say this again...it is "NOT" the ECAs nor the AIAs responsibility to police the electrical industry...it is the department of labour...who is suppose to police the industry...the fact that they are so incompetent and now becoming a money making racket (they charge you the customer for an investigation) if you call them...is a joke...like everything else in south africa if you have a litlte more than everyone else in this country you gona pay for it...and i mean with everything...right down to the taxes on your cigarettes

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## Dave A

> the reason you got a response from them (eca) was because if they didnt asssist you could have put in a claim for R15000 for bad workmanship


Now there's a thought. I wonder if third party workmanship guarantees can be limited like that nowadays under the CPA?

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## Tinman

MikeS, have you moved up from EL. ?

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