# Social Category > South African Politics Forum >  Should SA have an early general election?

## Dave A

Reading the news and commentary on Thabo Mbeki's State of the Nation address to parliament yesterday, it seems clear that we have something of a hiatus in the balance of power just at a time when we seem to need decisive action.

So - Do we need an early election to get the country back on track?

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## Chatmaster

I feel a bit divided about this. Actually I believe an early election is a good idea, atm Thabo Mbeki has little power and JZ is pulling the strings with Thabo taking the risks. On the other hand the longer JZ stays out of government the better the chances that his court case can be completed so he can start fresh when the election does take place (If he is innocent, that is). Whilst that hangs over his head I certainly will not trust him. There are several issues with him that worries me.
Shabir Shaik was found guilty because of his generally corrupt relationship with ZumaThe fact that he fought the NPA on every issue to prevent them from obtaining the information from MauritiusThe fact that he is clearly behind the disbanding of the Scorpions and THAT to me is bordering admission of guiltThe fact that he still sings his freedom song, I just cannot see a president in a democratic healing country with an AK47 on his sideHis comments he made during his rape case. (He can say sorry as much as he like, but he certainly is no child that can behave like a idiot and then say sorry to make it go away. He is supposed to be a sensible leader)The fact that he constantly seems to have some financial problems despite having everything going for him.

The fact however remains, we are clearly in shambles atm, and without a doubt there are major problems with the current government to deliver or fix what they messed up. There is no confidence and everyone is blindly awaiting the new ANC to take over and make drastic changes.

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## Dave A

It seems the JZ factor is the joker in this pack. Ordinarily I'd have thought this poll would be quite lopsided otherwise. 

My thought is that on current form, the JZ court case looks unlikely to be wrapped up before he is due to be appointed SA President anyway.

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## duncan drennan

I think about the issue from the perspective of what creates the most stability for the country, and in specific the economy. With our current energy issues, and the JZ factor hanging in the background, it seems like challenging the cabinet right now would just create a atmosphere of uncertainty for all South Africans. It would also paralyse the political world and launch mass marketing campaigns.

I'd rather see the politicians focussing on getting results and winning the next election based on that. The current political wrangling doesn't seem to achieve much other than generate a lot of hot air.

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## IanF

Which party will win the next election ANC. There is no viable opposition yet. So an early election will solve the two centres of power but not much else. Until we get an opposition that can win we are wasting our time. 
Why does the US and UK work so well, my opinion is because they have viable opposition parties that can and come into power.

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## Chatmaster

I had a very interesting discussion with a domestic worker today. It seems that there is a fairly substantial move in their community because the ANC elected JZ as president. She says there is a lot of unhappiness amongst ANC supporters because of the way Thabo Mbeki is conducting himself and the fact that JZ was elected president of the ANC. The main cause for unhappiness is that the ANC hasn't delivered what they promised and they certainly do not feel that JZ will do so once he becomes president. They are getting poorer and poorer and the fat cats are living in luxury. She said that life in the Old SA was much better and safer. It was an interesting discussion indeed and a real eye opener for me. Something that wasn't said but I could pick it up, was the exact point Ian mentioned in his post, who else to vote for, they do not trust any other political parties enough to give them their votes...

Although I do not expect the ANC to loose the next election, I certainly expect that their winning margin will shrink considerably.

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## Dave A

This is something I'm hearing too.

Folks are disillusioned with the ANC, but rather than cast their vote elsewhere, all that means is they won't vote at all.

Ultimately, it seems that no other party has managed to capture their trust.

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## Debbiedle

I do not see what good an early election will do.  Why are the DA asking for it?

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## Chatmaster

Perhaps the DA hope that the ANC has damaged their reputation so badly that they now stand a fighting chance as opposition?

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## Dave A

> I do not see what good an early election will do.  Why are the DA asking for it?


Because they can't wait for JZ to be our State President  :Whistling:

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## duncan drennan

> Because they can't wait for JZ to be our State President


 :Rofl:   Maybe Helen Zille is hoping to be his seventh wife?  :Big Grin:

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## Don

> I do not see what good an early election will do.  Why are the DA asking for it?


One thing that I picked up from hellen Zielle is that she has no respect for JZ whatsoever, she seems to think that with JZ in Power ANC will cramble cos she seems top believe that JZ is Stupid, It is either she's ignorant or Stupid herself because ANC as far as I know is and will not be run by JZ, the party is a Collective. Thabo Mbeki became President because the ANC wanted him to be, he messed up and the same ANC brought him Down, JZ will be president because ANC wants him to be and it would be very stupid of him if he did what Thabo did because he would certainly go down the same way Thabo did.

I agree, DA is not anywhere near a "Take Overr", and it would take long before they do. It is now very important for the ANC to go back to the people and reassured them. 

But I must say, honestly I have no faith in the current NEC, I believe its a team of people who have always wanted to be in power on the basis that they are struggle icons.

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## Chatmaster

> But I must say, honestly I have no faith in the current NEC, I believe its a team of people who have always wanted to be in power on the basis that they are struggle icons.


I echo your opinion, they seem to think they can lie and get away with it. I hate listening to interviews with any of them. As soon as they get questioned about the disbanding of the scorpions and their "hidden" agenda or some similar issues, they start talking in circles. No straight answers.  :Mad:

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## Don

> I echo your opinion, they seem to think they can lie and get away with it. I hate listening to interviews with any of them. As soon as they get questioned about the disbanding of the scorpions and their "hidden" agenda or some similar issues, they start talking in circles. No straight answers.


I agree with you, the last interview I saw was that of Mathews Phosa with Debra Patta, the man was talking Riddles. I still wonder why he decided to make a come back because it is so disapointing......

When Asked about the Kgampepe commission he made it quite clear that the findings are of no relevance therefore asthe new Leadership of the ANC, they still want to do away with the Scorpion's freedom from the SAPS, when asked the real reason behind this he ofcause had to sight the annoying Cleche "Abuse of Power", asked as to has abused this power by using the Scorpions to fight political Battles he was really afraid to come out and say "Thabo Mbeki" and his Cabinet.....My question is, "Are they not abusing Power by disbanding the Scorpions knowing that they are currently working on cases that involve a number of their own comrades (Those who have recently risen to Power)?

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## Dave A

> My question is, "Are they not abusing Power by disbanding the Scorpions knowing that they are currently working on cases that involve a number of their own comrades (Those who have recently risen to Power)?


It would certainly seem that way.

There is a substantial difference between the concerns that gave rise to the Kgampepe commission and the concerns being raised now. Particularly when we look at *who* is raising those concerns.

Originally it was the police who were complaining of duplication and obstruction (withholding information) of them carrying out their duties, coincidentally whilst one of their own was enjoying the spotlight of scrutiny by the Scorpions.

Now it is the political party apparatus of the ANC that has a "concern." And if we look at who is under the Scorpion microscope, who do we find?  :Whistling: 

I think the issue of the party being the political force rather than the politicians themselves is worthy of some debate. It certainly has become a big problem.

Under the current system, the party appoints the politicians to take up the various seats available. This forces the politicians to toe the party line and gives them very little latitude to use their own judgement when voting on issues. 

You have to wonder why we need to be paying 400 politicians to sit in parliament when only a few of them have the power to make decisions!

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## Chatmaster

The irony is that everyone, including themselves know they are lying and the real reason for them to disband the unit. The general public do not agree with disbanding the Scorpions but they still do as they please. In this case they are NOT doing what their employers (voters) are telling them to do, because they know the Scorpions are messing up their agendas. They will simply keep on ignoring this and continue like stupid little kids ensuring that they get political power over the unit. That is the only reason they want it incorporated under the police, so they know that whoever runs the unit reports to them.

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## Don

> The general public do not agree with disbanding the Scorpions but they still do as they please


Thats the funny part about Politicians, come time for "Election Campaigns" they will be running around communities and telling them how "The People Shall Govern", as soon as they get in to power they through that out of the window until such time they need the people again.

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## Chatmaster

It is almost as if they believe they are royalty the moment they step into a position of power, amazing if you think that they are actually our servants. Mmmmmmmm thinking about that statement, perhaps I have it completely wrong! We are their servants! I mean they do as they please and if they mess up we have to pay for it to be fixed. Sounds more like children...

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## Dave A

> Releasing the Khampepe commission's report on the Scorpions at this juncture will "cause prejudice" to South Africa's national security, says President Thabo Mbeki.
> 
> In a letter faxed to the Democratic Alliance (DA) on Wednesday night, Mbeki's office refused the DA's request in terms of the Promotion of Access to Information Act for access to the report.
> 
> In the letter, deputy information officer in the Presidency Sibongile Sigodi said the Act allowed for a request to be refused if disclosure "will cause prejudice to the defence, security and international relations of the Republic".
> 
> Mbeki intended to release the report at "an appropriate time without compromising the defence, security and international relations of the Republic", she said.
> full report from M&G here


The possibility that releasing the report might embarrass the drive to have the Scorpions disbanded has nothing to do with it, of course  :Whistling:

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## Moneymaker

My concern for SA is that JZ will use state funds as his personal source of capital.....

Let's see what happens this weekend in Zim?

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## Don

> My concern for SA is that JZ will use state funds as his personal source of capital.....
> 
> Let's see what happens this weekend in Zim?


I think the outcome of the Zim elections are quite obvious, Zim needs change in Leadership but uncle Bob is on a mission to hang on to Power for as long as possible, which is not doing his beloved Country any good, the sooner he realises that Zim needs that change the better but clearly that is not the case given his latest stunts to score votes even from the dead.

I've seen Mogan's campaigns on SA channels, since he cant use Zim channels to campaign but I dont see that helping in any way, yes Zim people are abundant in SA but will they go home to cast their votes, have they registered? I think not.

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## Dave A

Arresting a helicopter pilot who coincidentally flies the opposition leader to rallies, giving away cars and promising tractors, printing extra ballot papers, putting polling stations in areas where there are no voters...

What's wrong with that?  :Whistling:

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## Richardk

I think that the earlier the better. We need to put an end to the ANC talking out of two mouths, namely Thabo and Jacob. Firm, directional and trustworthy leadership needs to be instated to go forward. I am sure that this would lead to a firmer value within our total Economy.

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## Dave A

I've been amazed at how even the poll result has been.

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## Marq

Just been speaking to my Son in London. He says there is a huge support for JZ and it seems there is even a demo thing going on.

Probably find this is a result of Mbeki telling the British and Americans off for interfering in the Zim elections. 

If that is the case I would imagine there is a negative effect on the economy. I don't know if they are playing a waiting game for Zuma's court case but the sooner there is an election, the sooner we may see an upswing from our current financial woes. Certainly there will be some direction and decision from what we have seen already in the background.

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## Dave A

A few things got me thinking about this thread again.



> Just been speaking to my Son in London. He says there is a huge support for JZ and it seems there is even a demo thing going on.


I had an acquaintance from the UK over last night. He was well aware of the Zimbabwe issue, but his awareness in respect of JZ and Thabo was pretty low - only that they (or someone from SA) had something to do with resolving the crisis. There was certainly no awareness of the corruption charges or our internal political games of the moment.

But more on topic



> I don't know if they are playing a waiting game for Zuma's court case...


I haven't been scanning the news quite as closely as usual, but a few rumblings have caught my ear. One is that there is apparently some sentiment within the ANC that pushing forward the elections might be a good idea given the current shuffling going on. The other was "Kill for Zuma" Julius saying that even if JZ is convicted in the corruption trial, he will still be President  :EEK!:

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## Marq

I think there are a few camps on the UK side of the world - the original brits, who are dwindling in volume, Asians and Imports and a huge contingent of Saffers. My Son would have been referring to the last contingent, who in true SA style would know everything - wouldn't they?.

Remember the cartoons that came out with the JZ - 'shower a day keeps bugs away'. I can see them going to town on this one too. Just as JZ thought he was clean now after all those showers and getting some respectable campaign going. I am sure he needed this joker to remind the world of his situation. Not a very good political posture unless of course we do not realise it and Julius's name is actually Judas.

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