# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Pre-paid meter over charging?

## mother

Is it possible that a pre-paid meter can be set incorrectly to "over charge" for consumption? I've just moved into a new house in a complex, all the units use pre-paid meters. The first month was more than just a shock, when I had to purchase 3 times as much as I expected to! Our electricity consumption in this 200m2 unit is more than the 600m2 we moved from. I compared notes with my neighbours, they are all paying roughly a third of what I'm paying. I have checked the fridge, the freezer, the geyser... everything is set the way it should be, nothing ridiculous or leaking or broken. I replaced the lightbulbs with energy saving bulbs where I could, and I've become obsessed with switching everything off. Still, no less than R 1 000 per month! We're not even home during the day!

I've never used pre-paid meters before, so I'm not sure how to procede. The box is the property of the municipality, right? So if it's possible that this thing is set incorrectly (it HAS to be, this can't be normal!), then I should contact them to come out and fix this?

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## mother

Not sure if I posted this in the correct forum??? But hoping to reach the experts in this field.

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## Justloadit

Hi Mother,

Anything is possible.

The first thing to do, is to make a recording of the units, this process is going to take some time. This the number that is on the screen. Say every morning at 07h00, subtract the new reading from the day before. You will start getting an idea of the daily consumption. 

You can also do a reading every hour to get an idea of your hourly consumption. You must do a reading on the hour, not before not after wards as you want to reduce your error. The consumption of electricity is based on Kilo Watts per hour. During the respective hour note what is working. The one item you do not know is working is your geyser, so you could switch it off at the circuit breaker while doing your readings.

This will give you a good idea of what is consuming all your power.

If you suspect it is your geyser then do the following.
One morning switch your geyser off for the day, and see what the reading is the next morning, just use your hot water sparingly as there is no element to keep your water hot. Next morning read the meter consumption and see what the value is, do this with each of your appliances.

Once you identify the culprit you may get an electrician in to do a preliminary test for you. If the meter is at fault you may contact the city council to come and replace. With out proof, I am sure they will not come out.

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mother (10-Jul-11)

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## AndyD

From a metering point of view it's highly unusual for energy dispensers to be inaccurate but as justloadit says, anything's possible.

I would suggest you purchase an Owl Energy Monitor at around R600 (I think) and you designed that you be able to install it yourself. You can then check your meter accuracy and also you can use it just on your geyser etc to figure out where the power is going.

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mother (10-Jul-11)

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## murdock

> From a metering point of view it's highly unusual for energy dispensers to be inaccurate but as justloadit says, anything's possible.
> 
> I would suggest you purchase an Owl Energy Monitor at around R600 (I think) and you designed that you be able to install it yourself. You can then check your meter accuracy and also you can use it just on your geyser etc to figure out where the power is going.


must just be careful with this unit it only measure the rate per kw at R 0.60 kw/h the new 2011 rates depending on where you live...are a little more than this...durban is now more than R1.00 perkw/h

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mother (10-Jul-11)

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## Sparks

Yes the meter can be faulty, but the odds are very low. All of the above are correct answers to your problem. There is however one quick test to do first. Whe you are on your way out for a few hours over a few days, and one night through, switch off all your appliances at the wall and your geyser at the main board. Take a reading and on your return compare the reading. It is important that you switch the appliances off at the wall not the board to determine if there is a circuit from your board going out of your house. If this test does not show consumption you can contact your supplier customer care office and ask their policy. Here in PE the municipality will remove a suspect meter and test it over 3 weeks. should it be correct they will thereafter send it to 3 independant testers to confirm it as correct. The criteria has however 4%(Not sure) accuracy tolerance. Should the meter be more than 4% out you will not pay for the tests or replacement meter. They will also credit your account. Should the meter be within this tolerance you will pay for the removal. testing and replacement of the meter.

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mother (10-Jul-11)

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## bergie

as mentioned the geyser is likely the culprit. especially in complexes where the geyser is in a service area where nobody would even notice it was leaking and the element could be permanently on.have a visual inspection for leaks before going to any other trouble.

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mother (10-Jul-11)

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## mother

Wow, thanks everyone. I am convinced something is wrong... Before we moved we used more appliances (worked from home then), we had 4 geysers and 4 adults on the premises all day, a computerised irrigation system, a computerised swimming pool, plus the house was like a medieval castle and you needed all the lights on all day to see... Now we have less appliances (factory moved to own premises), only 1 geyser, no irrigation system, no swimming pool, and our consumption is the same, sometimes slightly more. We don't even own heaters or electric blankets, because it doesn't get cold enough here.

Ok, so I'll be climbing into the ceiling just now to eyeball the geyser. And if he looks healthy, I'll start those readings and tests. Thanks guys.

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## Justloadit

Just remember there has been almost a huge increase in the cost of electricity in the last 12 months, and this may be the culprit as well. Just over a year ago, I think it was 37c a Kw, now it is 69c a Kw and there has just been a recent 30% increase as from the 1st of June. So effectively using half the Kw you used now costs the same as it did then.

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## Greg

All the above are valid points.

Also remember the following. Where conventional meters are used and you pay the council monthly, the electrical part of the bill is not made up of only your consumption. (in other words your kw units consumed.) There will also be levies and a bit of this and that.) I know on our bill with the council the levies make up about 25 to 30% of our electrical bill.

When one goes with pre paid these levies are built into your vouchers. In other words one will pay more per kw unit with pre paid than with normal meters.

I finished one last week where a town house had a problem. Single person and they were using roughly 900 kw units per month.(30 units per day). I noticed when I was there that the geyser was running. I opened the water and it was dam hot and should have turned off. The thermostat was set at 70 degrees maximum. I turned it down to 60 degrees. The following morning at the same time the owner took a reading and got 12 kw units for the 24 hr period.

I suspect that the thermostat was sticking and not always turning off when set at 70 degrees. I replaced the thermostat. If the owner turned the geyser off for 21 hrs per day his units dropped as low as 7.5 to 8 units per day. This was for a single guy.

Meters don't really go faulty. One knows they are faulty if the units never change.

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mikilianis (11-Jul-11)

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## murdock

in durban the rate per kw for the average household scale 3 & 4 ....106.83 cents /kw and you dont qualify for the 65 kw free electrity 

my question when i apply for my pre paid mete ris going to be ...do i qualify for the rate below considering i have consumed less than 150 kw over a 6 month period todate and by the time i sort this issue out it will be 12 months

what is regarded as an "indigent customer" do i qualify ?



Description of tariff : This is a single rate tariff without a fixed service charge
Typical customers : Low Consumption - Free Basic Electricity
Type Of metering : Pre-Payment
Tariff Rates Applicable for : 2011/2012 Financial Year
Description Of Charge VAT incl
Energy Rate 71.54 81.56
Energy Charge : The energy charge is a flat rate charge
Service Charge The service charge is built into the energy charge therefore a separate service
charge is not applicable
General This tariff is currently available to indigent customers who consume less than 150kWh per month.
All customers on this tariff will be eligible to 65 kwh of free on a monthly basis. An online monitoring
system is currently in place that identifies qualifying customers based on their previous history.

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## Dave A

indigent [ˈɪndɪdʒənt]
adj
1. so poor as to lack even necessities; very needy
2. (usually foll by of) Archaic lacking (in) or destitute (of)
n
an impoverished person
[from Latin indigēre to need, from egēre to lack]

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## murdock

> indigent [ˈɪndɪdʒənt]
> adj
> 1. so poor as to lack even necessities; very needy
> 2. (usually foll by of) Archaic lacking (in) or destitute (of)
> n
> an impoverished person
> 
> [from Latin indigēre to need, from egēre to lack]


thanks for clearing that up dave

ok so i qualify then becuase i am lack nessities and i am very needy

i have nessities like a new super bike...bigger house...more money...a younger wife...more holidays...trips around the world and i could just go on and on....and my wife said i am very needy... :Big Grin: 

jokes aside...looks like i dont fall into that catergory...as much as i am going thru a difficult time i dont lack anything and as some people have mentioned to me "i dont know how you do it"...the way i see it i am better off than 100 million people in africa and dont lack anything just need to adjust my lifestyle for a while...and when i look at the pictures on the news last night of people in real need...i feel ashamed that i could want for any more than i already have...i look at how the people in south africa complain and then look how those people in other parts of afica live...we should be ashamed of ourselves for the way we carry on...just want more and more and more

i  hear people saying what they would do with 100 million lotto if they won it...honestly i would spend a little money making my parents lives a little more comfortable for their remaining years then i would pay off the my house and any out standing debt...which would leave me with around 99. 5 million then i would personally take the balance of the money hire a plane and take as much  food to those people who need it more than anyone else...because that would have been the reason i won it...not to waste on material objects for myself.

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## mother

> Just over a year ago, I think it was 37c a Kw, now it is 69c a Kw and there has just been a recent 30% increase as from the 1st of June.


I pay between R1.11 (at Pick n Pay) and R1.27 (at the Sasol garage) per unit. That's been the price for a couple of months now, so a price increase is not the reason for my enormous expense. I compared my little 2 bedroom unit's consumption with my parents' municipal bill (they have 3 occupied houses on their property, and everything is computerised to open/close switch on/off automatically) ... we both use around 900 kW per month. (Funny you should also mention 900kW, Greg).

I had a good look at my geyser last night, and it seems perfect, no leaks, no noises, nothing. Thermostat was on 60, I now turned it down to 50 (lets see if it helps). And I checked our consumption for last night, between midnight and 06h00, while we were asleep, we used 9kW - WHAT FOR?!

I am all obsessed now with finding the answer. I have started a table, and I am taking readings and making notes of what is on and what is off. Fun and games, I tell you!

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## AndyD

> while we were asleep, we used 9kW - WHAT FOR?!


I'm guessing you mean 9 kWh.

Heating (under floor, panel heaters etc)
Geyser element
Geyser timer clock
Cellphone and laptop chargers
Cordless house phone system
Server
PC's / computers running
Any external USB devices plugged into a computer
Hi-Fi, DVD player, TV, stove, microwave etc on standby
Satellite decoder 
Analogue TV mast amplifier
House alarm/fire system
Electric fence
Motorized gate battery charger
Motorized garage door battery charger
Ceiling fans
Bedroom toys
Pool pump / chlorinator / pool light / pool timer clock
Irrigation controller / battery charger / Tank liquid level sensing equip 
Borehole/wellpoint pump 
Porch lighting, boundary lighting, security lighting
Electric blanket
Radio alarm clock
Plug-in mosquito repeller
ADSL router / switch

are a few things that spring to mind immediately.

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## Justloadit

All the electronic stuff put together excluding heaters and pumps would draw somewhere under a one Kwatt hour, so there you have already 6Kwatts, so another 500watts an hour used somewhere.

Get yourself an  OWL -to monitor in real time your consumption. You can then switch circuit breakers off to see what is actually consuming the power.

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## mother

Oh goodie! I like checklists! Thanks Andy.




> I'm guessing you mean 9 kWh.
> 
> Heating (under floor, panel heaters etc) - None
> Geyser element - I suppose yes
> Geyser timer clock - I suppose yes
> Cellphone and laptop chargers - None plugged in
> Cordless house phone system - No
> Server - No
> PC's / computers running - Switched off
> ...


I guess I'll have to invest in that bird then...

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## Sparks

7-9kWh is what mine is on average: 2 geysers; 3TVs' on standby; 1TV on; PC on standby; router on  and about 200W lighting all night.
My average cost pm is about R450-R600 depending on how much we use the 2 ovens. Having a gas hob does help. The washing machine, huge automatic, runs nearly every day as here is a two-year old.

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## AndyD

> .....nothing ridiculous or leaking.


This got me thinking how much the earth leakage of your electrical installation could cost you.

If your earth leakage is 30mA and your breaker is just hanging in then
30/1000x220
gives you a 6.6 watt load
6.6/1000 = 0.0066kW times 744 hours in a month = 4.91 units of electricity (kWh)
So your earth leakage fault current could cost you up to about R6.00/ month depending on your tariff.

Sorry, not very relevant, I was just bored  :Frown:

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## bergie

what about stuff thats not connected to earth leakage relay.geyser?could be quite relevant.

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## Dave A

> Thermostat was on 60, I now turned it down to 50 (lets see if it helps).


I wouldn't set it below 60 degrees C for water quality/health reasons. Just as with food, there are nasties that can breed in warm water and it takes temperature to kill them. 60 degrees is as low as you should go.

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AndyD (12-Jul-11)

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## AndyD

Is this an official recommendation? I've seen many geysers set below 60°C and there seems to be a trend of people setting them as low as possible to save on power.

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## Martinco

I have an add-on solar heating system and it is programmed automatically to once a week take the temperature to 75 degrees to "kill off the bugs "
So there is merit in what Dave says.

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## Justloadit

I am sure we have had a discussion about this before, but I can not find it now. The main culprit is Legionella

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## mother

Aw man! In other words, turn that  thermostat back up to 60, and never ever get into a jacuzi / hot water spring / heated pool again ...  :Yikes:

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## Sparks

That is actually interesting Dave, I thought the "leaking" was referring to water. But since you mention it, I once had the problem of a high electricity bill and on investigation found a few electrical leaks where T&E had been stripped. There was a constant leakage the current of which I do not recall. Good things tong testers. After fixing it the bill was still high, although reduced. I could not fathom it out untill the plumber who called me in on the job mentioned in passing that he was baffled as to why the waterpipes were hot at the back of the building despite the fact that the geyser was not set high. The joints in the cavity were leaking water. That obviously kept the thermostat going.

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## murdock

i connected a geyser yesterday and noticed it had something interesting on the label...leakage current over a 24 hour period.

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## AndyD

> i connected a geyser yesterday and noticed it had something interesting on the label...leakage current over a 24 hour period.


I don't understand your post which I suspect was Mod edited. Please explain.

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## murdock

http://www.kwikot.co.za/Maintenance/Maintenance.php

on the green label in has what i think states standing loss/24hr ...2.16 kwh...i am not sure what this means.

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## Greg

I think that refers to the heat loss over a 24Hr period if no water is used.(In other words the power it would require to get it back to the temperature it was set at.)

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## AndyD

Sorry Dave, I wasn't making conspiracy theories  :Smile: 



I think it's stating the heat losses through the insulation as an electricity consumption figure as well but it's a bold figure to state without any qualification. There's a few things that should also be stated such as the difference between surrounding ambient air temperature and the temp of the water in the cylinder during the test. Also does this loss refer to a cylinder with insulated or lagged inlet and outlet pipework or one without pipework lagging. Finally does this refer to a cylinder under normal day to day use which would have temperature variations or one that's sitting static under fairly constant temperature (although I'm not sure how you'd measure the losses accurately when it's being used) .

It would be interesting to slap a data logger on an unused cylinder for a day and see how close this figure is under real life conditions. It sounds very optimistic to me.

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## Justloadit

Hi Andy,

No so sure, if your geyser is not being used at all, then the heat loss would be through the hot side outlet pipe, which in the grand scheme of thins is relatively small.  If you allowed the geyser to heat say to 60 degrees, then switched the power off for 24 hours, and not used the water, the temperature would not drop more than about 10 degrees.

When I go away for the week end, I usually switch the power to my geyser, when I get back, and run the water it is well hot enough for a shower, which could be around 40 degrees or so, and that is after almost 48 hours standing.

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