# Interest group forums > Electrical Contracting Industry Forum >  Electrical Installation Costs

## Tracsec

Hi there. Can any one advise on standard electrical installation costs. i am in the process of finalising and awarding the project of the building of my new home with various different contractors and need to determine as to the electrical installations and its associated costs. how is pricing determined?  per square meter of a new building? or is pricing done per point?, per floor? or some other method (if so please advise). I would greatly appreciate some info on how this is determined and the general costs involved, i wont hold any one to them!. After watching carte blanch im a little bit more cautious and concerned as to whether the pricing i have recieved actually relates to what needs to be done on the building and so im unsure of where to go from here ,I dont mind paying for the work as well as the electrician making his profit but it must be fair and honest and relate ,i have quotes with no physical breakdowns but more of a final price for the job but they all range greatly and as much as the different colours in the rainbow, so i have no real method of determining such 

Thanks

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## Dave A

Our company prices per point, but as there are a number of ways an estimate might be presented, perhaps it would be more helpful to say what you should look out for.

No matter how the estimate is presented, you need to make sure you understand what you are getting for that price, and I mean *really* specific. One of the oldest tricks is to present a very basic quote that looks very cheap competitive, and you end up getting gutted by extras and changes that never were, but perhaps should have been in the original estimate.

If it's a plug point, is that a single or double? What make of plug point?
(Ideally you'll want plug point and light switch fittings from the same range - it generally looks better).

If it's a light point, do you get a basic fitting with that?
Does it include installing your own light fitting (bought at your own cost) if that's what you prefer?
Do you want downlighters? Will that be low voltage or 220V? (You'll find most electricians will recommend 220V as they really give far less trouble and accordingly are far less maintenance).

If any light points are going into a concrete slab, what type of slab is going to be thrown? Some types of boxes needed for particular beam-type slabs are considerably more expensive than for a straight shutter board throw.

Obviously it's best to spec the job as accurately as possible up front, but most times there will be changes along the way. Get rates per extra point and likely changes - moving a plug point, adding a plug point, adding a light point, moving a light switch (the number of times a client changes their mind as to which side of the door they want their light switch is amazing).

Make sure you understand what type of municipal supply you're going to need; single phase or 3 phase and the supply breaker rating. Make sure you can get the type of supply you need and get a quote from the municipality to connect. This can come to more than you might think.

Get references for previous work. You want to know that the workmanship is good (would you like those light switches and plug points level, light points in line, or do you actually like the Picasso (nothing quite lines up) effect?), the electrical contractor is reliable and is likely to get along with the builder (take this point as particularly critical).

Make sure you budget for extras (and that isn't just for the electrician). A wise man once told me he always allowed 30% extra above original estimates as his total budget for the project. This will remove a lot of stress (there's nothing quite like scrambling for R50k extra when you haven't got it and it's the difference between getting what you want and accepting something you don't really like) and if your planning is good, you'll have lots of extra money left over for curtains  :Wink: 

You might also find our page on construction tips for electrical installations useful.

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AndyD (24-Feb-10), daveob (24-Feb-10)

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## murdock

and if they say the project will be finished by the end of the month expect it done by the following month...and this is no joke.

I think the reason for the bulk price...is to cover yourself for unexpected problems on site...i also dont give a per unit price or detail the quote anymore you end up loosing in the end...giving a total price helps when you manage to do something for a little cheaper and other things take a little longer you dont loose.

your best bet is to find someone who is recomended by indepent people and not selected out the telephone book or by the builder...lots of calls i get are to rectrify installations done by the builders electrician...make sure he has the correct qualifications and not just the builders son or neighbour etc.

make sure the contractor is registered with the "ECB" if not dont even consider them...then put the contractors name on the site so everyone can see and comment if they have had any issues with them.

being registered with the ECA...no comment...just remeber as an electrical contractor you do not have to be registered with them...THE ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR IS PROTECTED BY THE ECA...not always the customer.

make sure all the staff on your site have an identity tag with their relevant qualifications...elenop 1...2..3...electrical assistant...electrician etc to prevent the contractor using labour off the street and charging you top rates.
We all have these ID tags...if they dont they are not registered for the position say they are.

beware of twin + earth installations plastered  directly into the wall...it may be cheaper to install but you will pay in the long run...if you are building to sell and just want to make money this is a good option hit and run...but if you are building for the long haul...stay away from it.

thing to make sure of

Db has spare pipes
db has at least 25 % addtional space
earth and neutral bars are big enough and not doubled or tripled.
dont forget to allow for telephone and intercom points.
make sure the kitchen and laundry have seperate circuits otherwise when you switch on the kettle you cant use the toaster etc...this is a common problem i am finding with new installtions...they wire 1 circuit to feed the kitchen area bad idea.
position your DB in the correct place take some time to think about this.
i find behind ther passage door is always a good place because you dont put things below it or over it like kitchen cupboards...you just close the door and you have easy access...you can also mount a rechargeable light in the passage which will switch on when the power goes off...so you dont need to find a light to find the DB.
dont mount it in the kitchen because 90% of the time there will be a cupboard put over it then it becomes dififcult to work on or when you decide to re model your kitchen it sometimes becomes an issue and a big expense to reposition
mount your meter box near the boundry...it will save you on connection costs.
these are just some of the things to take into consideration hopefully the contractor you select will assist you with all the other things not mentioned here  :Thumbup:

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Dave A (24-Feb-10), daveob (24-Feb-10)

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## Tracsec

Dave A and Murdock, Thank you both for your input and insight, you have mentioned things that hadnt even been considered and have cleared up a lot of aspects this morning. The architects pecified that only double plugs be installed as standard and that 2 way light switches and or even three way light switching be done for instance in the bedrooms so there are switches by each door as well as at both ends of the bed and patio sliding doors leading out to the baclonys, the first floor will be a 330mm rib and block with approximatley downlighers every 500mm to 650mm apart. As well as in the cantilever balconys

The architect says the entire building is to be piped for electrical so no need to worry from that point, but will be sure to keep a close eye on it when i reach that stage

I dont mind being quoted a bulk price but surley a more structure quote should be for eg:

Lighting R xxxx
Plugs R xxxxx
DB xxxxx
Fittings Etc R xxxxx

Getting a Quote that says all ellectrical work R xxxxx, doesnt really allow me to make an informed decision?

If you could give me some general indication as to pricing per plug point, telephone point / tv point ,and lighting points per room would help me in deciphering the quotes tremendously.

I know this is quite difficult but even a general thumbsuck estimation say for a normal single or double story typical dwelling, lets say a moderate installation what would that cost?




Thanks once again

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## murdock

double plug points = 400/500 per point 
light points = 350/450 
db single phase 24 way  single phase 1200/1500
supply cable depending on single or 3 phase 60 or 80 amps.
if the house has lots of points and you plan on spending money i would look into home automation

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## murdock

been doing total rewires...3 bedroom double storey total rewire...R26000.00

3 bedroom standard house...bathroom...ensuite...kitchen R19000.00

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## murdock

one last thing dont believe for a minute by getting a COC your house will be safe...get an independant inspector to check the house during the building and on completion...i dont believe that company which wires the house should issue the COC...lots of COC are not worth the paper they are written on even if the contractor is registered with the ECB...this is a sad reality...because as i will say for the 500 th time the electrical industry in this country is in total shambles as you can see by the carte blanche article...and thats just the tip of the ice berg...and only once they start procecuting criminals for the work they do with fines worth talking about will people start complying with the law.

by the way i see they have changed the COC again...now it is 6 pages...i think i am gona start making a mockery of it again by filling out the form as jack sparrow or captain morgan registration number 10810 again and see if anyone picks it up :Big Grin:

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## Tracsec

Thanks for all this, im now making good headway and getting a good idea as to who is too cheap and who the "real" guys are who seem to be professional and provide effective service with good quality products. Phewww no body said building a house was easy, they also never said anything about the amount of considerations to take into account , thanks to all who contributed once again.

I think the independent inspector is one excellent suggestion, im assuming this will at least ensure and provide some sort of standard rather than just 1 installer being involved from start to finnish.

Thanks

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## murdock

beware of clipsal dimmers...DO NOT USE THEM...you will have problems.

rather use and R&D dimmer if you are going to use touch dimmers.

I have also been having lots of recalls on clipsal plug sockets.

make sure that all the equipment installed on site is sabs approved...otherwise the COC cannot be issued...if it is not stamped SABS then they must issue you with a certificate for the equipment.

beware of the new CBI earth leackage units they were the best but they last about 2 years and cbi have reduced the warrenty to 1 year...to replace it will +/- R650...by the time the time you get the bill you are in for around R1200...rather use the cheaper din rail mounted DB with the cheaper product they only cost R280 for the e/l unit and you get complete modules for around R500 which includes the e/l unit and all the mcbs..i havent had any problems with the chint units...i was very anti these cheap units but so far i havent had problems...and all the products which in the old days where good quality products are all just as bad as if they all now come from the same factory...and this goes for all the plugs and light switches including clipsal and crabtree...there quality has dropped drastically...crabtree will tell you they have upgraded to a 20 amp rated switch...but the catch now is you cant just replace the faulty switch anymore you now have to replace the entire plug.

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## murdock

i dont envy you building a house...i climbed on the part of my house which was completed about 2 years ago...i found 47 broken tiles just on the garage...the walls all have hairline cracks on the plaster...the outbuilding has cracked from the roof to the top of the door frames in 2 places...it looks like the ground must have shifted...the ash blocks walls are so soft that you cannot drill into them...if i hit a 2 lb hammer against the wall it goes into the wall.

the tar driveway is has turned into a gravel road...when i got other tar companies to quote to repair they all said the tar was only 3 mm thick and not prepared correctly...the insurance company say it is a maintenance issue and they are not prepared to pay out...the reality of workmanship today.

no earth leakage was fitted even thought the plugs were installed just over 2 years ago...i had to fit one when i moved in.

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Garin (12-Sep-10)

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## Tracsec

Thanks for all the updates, My last house which was built about eight years ago which i purchased as a building package had crabtree light switched and plugs. I never really had a problem with their plugs but their light switches were bad, all the plastic toggle switches were falling apart coming off the switches etc.

Din mount breakers were also standard in my old place and gave me no problems.

So i definitley wont be using Crabtree again i have been recommended the CBI light switches and sockets, any comments on those?

After walking around the estate on Saturday and walking into other builds i can cleary see that the general standard of workmanship electrical and building related in this industry appears to be in a bad state, I walked into 3 or 4 homes under construction to find light switches in bathrooms ,thin electrical cable buried in the ground, wiring leading into boxes without adquete protection between the boxes sharp entry holes and the cable itself and no earth on lighting circuits, the list goes on, and these houses are to be issued with COC's :Confused: .

These COCs appear to be not even worth the paper they written on.

Clearly the regulating bodys arent doing there jobs and appear to be toothless. Do people no longer have pride in their work or the saftey of the people they are building and wiring these houses for? its definitely buyer beware,
If i did my actuary job like some of these guys i would have no job. thank goodness im going the owner builder route and will have some sort of control over the standard of workmanship in my new home. cheers

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## Dave A

> If i did my *actuary* job like some of these guys i would have no job.


Looks like keeping an eye on the detail isn't going to be a problem then  :Big Grin:

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## AndyD

I've always found Crabtree to be fine. They're not sexy but reliable. I don't like CBI, I came across some of their sockets about a year ago and they were nasty build quality. 
If you want something reliable go with legrand or even Gewiss. If money is no object then Gira are good quality and babe pullers all in one.:-)

There's nothing wrong with DIN mount breakers, I use a lot of Merlin Gerin range which are good. Try avoid the cheapies though, there's a lot of far East imports around.

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## murdock

i went from crabtree to clipsal then back to crabtree after they told me they had sorted out their issues but still had problems...went back to clipsal had plenty problems with plugs and switches...so i decided for the price half clipsal and amost 3 times cheaper than crabtree after you add the cover plate...and havent to date had any problems with the product just really bad deliery service...cant get stock through the wholesaler.

merlin and gerin a great product but expensive...cbi circuit breakers have just become too expensive to use...dont get the job if i quote usiing cbi...and their e/l unit have been giving plenty problem especially the 2006 ones.

what you are seeing is the new electrical standard unfortunely...unless you are prepared to pay for a company like mine...which most are not...i have also had to get team of cheapy installers to keep up with the low standard otherwise i get priced out the market.

i will say it again until they impose hefty fines for illegal workmanship...it will just keep getting worse as they get away with it.

the other problem you have to look at is what happens if a building next to your one catches on fire due to bad workmanship and gutters your house in the process and your family is sleeping when it happens?  i sound like an insurance salesman trying to get you to buy life insurance  :Big Grin: 

i just wish people would wake up and see what is happening around them because evetually it is gona get so bad like eskom that there is no turning back...and who is gona pay?

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## Tracsec

Its a pitty price always seems to be the deciding factor.

If this is the new electrical installation standards, i expect the fire department and hospitals to be very busy in the winter time!

Im really not worried about next doors house going up in flames, i have a 2m fire break (2m build line) around the premises so hopefully this will come in handy if a fire does break out.

I have just finalised my contractors so we should be breaking ground next month.

Thanks for all the help guys, i was able to make informed descions and get fair pricing.

You guys are clearly in the wrong business, if you want to make money start a plumbing company because the plumbing quotes i recieved for my new place are insane, for a couple of pipes, drains and gulleys well over 100k and this excluded finnish materials such as baths basins taps etc. 

Clearly building a modest home these days needs a seroius amount of cash, i just hate to think how much these multistorey buildings currently under construction in Sandton and other places cost :EEK!:

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## murdock

talking about pricing...i remeber eca meetings in the old days when everyone would say yeah yeah put prices up...next day you quote and the prices are even lower...i can get a company to do work for me at R120 per hour...and i know these guys they are experienced and have been around for a while...how they do it i can only imagine they do not reegister with anything or anyone and they dont pay their staff the correct rates.

i agree about the plumbers pricing...nodody wants to do the kak jobs...so everyone becomes "an electrician" rather and flood the market and prices...whether they are labourers or semi skilled they all seem to apply for wark as electricans and when they dont get a job they quote against you and as you mentioned price wins every time...the customer complains then expects me to feel sorry for them when they try sell the house and i do the inspection...you always make more money stripping and replacing.

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## Garin

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum and have read a few interesting an informative topics.

I'm busy building a house and would like some input of the Veti modular switches and sockets. they seem to be a new brand and I would like to know if anyone has had any experience with the product.

Thanks
Garin

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## AndyD

Hi Garin, welcome to TFSA. :Wave: 

I don't have experience of the Veti modular range. From their website it looks similar to the Gewiss and Legrand range where the switch and socket modules clip together in a grid plate.

Have you priced them? What does it work out to for a double 16A socket and a 2-lever switch?.

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## bergie

talking of din breakers,i like the hager range from electromekanica.
the price isnt too bad either.
i see theres a copy of the samite breakers/earth leakages for sale.never used it yet and i cant remember the brand name ,but its dirt cheap.
i ,ve also used these conversion clips where you can install any din earth leakage relay in a samite board.comes with a small blank to close the gap up of the larger samite db covers.
oh and 1 more thing.please ,whoever installs a heinemann lcd timer in a din board.(it can be clipped in samite and din)dont go cut the din db cover bigger,just pull off the black surround and it will fit perfectly.

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## Tracsec

The veti modular looks good but with only 3 years of testing as indicated on their site i would be hesitant . Just imagine having a faliure of you whole house, i had this in my previous home when the new clipsal stuff came out, the whole development was done with this and most of the switches plugs and dimmers failed, it was a complete nightmare, if your brave enough and want to be the test subject then you should, but from personal experience building your new home is complicated enough , you dont need another problem on your back

As for the Din switches these are great, Im having Gewiss Din breakers installed in both the upstairs and downstairs dbs, CBI samite is just too expensive for what they are.

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## Garin

Thanks for the information guys.

Yes I do agree they do look very nice. I've not priced the Veti range yet but was told it will come in at the same price as the Clipsal S2000 range. Waiting for confirmation on this. Website price for Veti 16A double socket is R130.

If I do not select the Veti Range i'm considering upgrading to the Clipsal S3000 range all depending on the price difference between the S2000 & S3000.

Any comments on the S3000 range?

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## murdock

get prices from your electrical contractor...i supply double socket outlets to my customers with a 25 % mark up...cheaper than they can buy them....some customers go buy plugs themselves and as an example the last customer who did this...purchased plugs for R 128 and i would have sold them to the customer for R48...if i had known the customer was prepared to pay that much i could have taken my list price and added a little something on  :Big Grin:

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## AndyD

> talking of din breakers,i like the hager range from electromekanica.
> the price isnt too bad either.


The Hager range isn't bad, they do better than most makes under high ambient temperatures which can cause nuisance tripping with breakers from some manufacturers.




> i see theres a copy of the samite breakers/earth leakages for sale.never used it yet and i cant remember the brand name ,but its dirt cheap.
> i ,ve also used these conversion clips where you can install any din earth leakage relay in a samite board.comes with a small blank to close the gap up of the larger samite db covers.
> oh and 1 more thing.please ,whoever installs a heinemann lcd timer in a din board.(it can be clipped in samite and din)dont go cut the din db cover bigger,just pull off the black surround and it will fit perfectly.


Thanks for the info. :Smile: 




> As for the Din switches these are great, Im having Gewiss Din breakers installed in both the upstairs and downstairs dbs, CBI samite is just too expensive for what they are.


Gewiss have proved pretty reliable and very reasonably priced. I still use Merlin Gerin for most applications.




> Website price for Veti 16A double socket is R130.


Sounds pretty expensive. Is that a wholesale price or end user retail? VAT inclusive or not?




> If I do not select the Veti Range i'm considering upgrading to the Clipsal S3000 range all depending on the price difference between the S2000 & S3000.
> 
> Any comments on the S3000 range?


I haven't specifically used much Clipsal S3000 range. The problem I find with all these modular ranges is that many of them look ridiculous when mounted vertically. This means in most premises you have to dig out every flush mount box and fit new ones which are horizontally oriented. This works out expensive after plastering and repainting.

The other problem is because of their modular nature the ordering of all the parts can be very complicated. Sometimes it's not easy to figure out which grid plate is best for certain configurations especially when you start with thermostats, dimmers and data outlets.

Make sure that whoever you order from is familiar with the product unless they have everything in stock and you can 'dry-assemble' everything on the counter before you buy it.

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mikilianis (13-Sep-10)

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## Tracsec

I've done the exercise on the S3000, really not worth it in my opinion (price wise) rather spend the extra money on a fancy kitchen or bathroom accessories. I totaly agree with Andy on the Vertical mounting and modular issues, Im old school and have always know switches to be mounted horizontally, vertical just doesnt feel right for me and looks strange, the other problem is you cant fit as many switches into a box with vertical S3000 as you can with the horizontal S2000 for example, this has considerable cost savings when building in a new home, would of went for gewiss switches to compliment the din breakers but had the same problem of vertical installation and only up to 3 switches per plate, i have at least 4 to 5 switches per plate for various lighting such as wall ,ceiling ,zone and specific feature lighting so 3switches per plate just wasnt enough unless i installed extra boxes.

Its was hard enough trying to get my electrican to get all the standard boxes around the rooms and counter tops the same exact height (i know its not the easiest of things) two vertical boxes next too each other would need gps co ordinates to get right and look good.

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mikilianis (13-Sep-10)

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## AndyD

> The veti modular looks good but with only 3 years of testing as indicated on their site .....


I just received an invitation for the launch of the Veti range so I doubt they have three years site testing in this country. They're being distributed by Major Tech and are being pitched as an alternative to the Clipsal S3000 range reading between the lines of the glossy literature they sent me.  

This is the local web page on the majortech site. http://www.major-tech.com/veti/

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## murdock

something to be careful of is the regulations with regards to what you can fit as a module...ie data point and socket outlet on the same plate...they should have made them that the the data and electrical couldnt fit on the same plate...but as per south african standards...someone must have over looked that issue as usual.

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## Garin

Hi Guys,

Can you please give me a general indication of prices for these items?
And best place for the public to purchase these items in Pretoria/JHB.

I need the following from the Clipsal S3000 range.

16 x double plugs (ST3025WE)
3 x single plugs   (ST3015WE)

15 x single level light switch (S3041/2/3AVWE) Vertical mount
7 x double level light switch 	(S3042/2/3AVWE) Vertical mount
1 x triple level light switch   (S3043/2/3AVWE) Vertical mount

Thanks
Garin

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## NatH12

Hi all. I am new to the forum. Could someone provide me with the general cost of installing downlighter and 1 dimmer switch. I have received a quote for installing 12 downlighters at the cost of R 5700. I have purchased all fittings and globes etc separately. Is this an extreme cost or is it realistic?
thanks

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## AndyD

Normally I wouldn't attempt to answer this kind of question because without seeing the job first hand it's impossible but today I charged a customer more than double that amount to replace one globe in one light fitting so your question made me smile.  :Smile:  The quote could be high or it could be reasonable, like I mentioned it's impossible to say if it's unnecessarily expensive without seeing the job. Why not just get another quote or two from other contractors and compare them?

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## Nqobany

Murdock can you please senf me your contact details to nqobany@gmail.com or 0780054507 WhatsApp. I need more info on how to determine the cost for new house wiring installation from chasing wall, wiring etc and how much each plug point, light and DB etc to install. Because I have no idea about how to determine costs for completely house wiring please, because now I am busy doing wireman's license and I want to start Electrical contractor. I have S4 Electrical Power Engineering from Durban University of Technology graduated last year still unemployed that why I want to start my own business and poor economy for our country as well. Regard Nqobay

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## trevor27

> double plug points = 400/500 per point 
> light points = 350/450 
> db single phase 24 way  single phase 1200/1500
> supply cable depending on single or 3 phase 60 or 80 amps.
> if the house has lots of points and you plan on spending money i would look into home automation


Does this price mean an electrician brings his materials or I should buy materials  thank you Trevor

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## GCE

> Does this price mean an electrician brings his materials or I should buy materials  thank you Trevor


You taking prices that were put out in Feb 2010 - They don't mean much in todays terms

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