# General Business Category > Business Finance Forum >  What is the best way to invest your money?

## Lourette

Fixed Deposit or Money Market?

----------


## Dave A

And there I was thinking education, shares, property, unit trusts, endowments, government bonds...

----------


## JohnBush

I think the best way to invest your money is to start deposing 50% of your money in bank and your invested money will help you start up a small business to earn more cash.

----------


## Nickolai Naydenov

Yip I'll go with what Dave says, cash will make you lose mone in the long run

----------


## Blurock

Why are you investing? The purpose of your investment will determine the best available option.

If you are investing for an overseas trip, you work out what it will cost and how much you can afford to save every month.
If you are investing to buy a house or a car, you may do a similar exercise. 

Do you need liquidity or can you invest long term? Are you risk averse or would you opt for a high return high risk investment such as investing in a building or a business that can give you a recurring or annuity income? There are so many options, you need to speak to an investment adviser to tailor an investment to your own circumstances.

I am personally not much in favour of leaving money in the bank. Even the Bible tells you that money will rust away. I believe that money should work for you... :Yes:

----------


## jeccyka

You can put money in a bank, invest in property, stock market or anything really.

There has never been easier  to invest in the stock market. All you need is internet access & an account with an online broker. You can probably get started with a couple of hundred dollars - but about $2,000 would be a better place to start.

Stock market can be risky, but the returns can be very high.

Putting your money in a bank will generally be safer, but the returns are not that great.

Or investing the insurance company, that's a cool.

----------


## Onetwo

I do not invest on Stock Market any more, but would like to benefit from the overall growth of the JSE. If you look at the track record of the All share index the last couple of years, i don't think there is any bank in the world that will offer that growth on capital. There is a product available from Satrix 40 (http://www.satrix.co.za) that seems to look like something worth wile.
Exposure to the top 40 shares in South Africa. That should also help with risk diversification, I think?

----------


## Miro Bagrov

Money Market is short term, Fixed deposit is long term.
Money market is used when you may need the money in-and-out frequently.

----------


## ians

I invest my money in my own companies and myself, why take chances with other people who dont have "your" best interest at heart. They dabble your money and take chances, i hear of too many people complaining about years of investments only paying out what they put in. I could be wrong, but from personal experience, i dont trust anyone anymore not even the "safe" blue and green companies. I lost a lot of money trusting a broker with the green company.

Once my last installment goes through for my vehicle in 2 months time, i plan on saving the money i pay towards the vehicle in a pure save then once it gets to a reasonable amount (R100 000) , i might expand one of my hobbies into a bigger operation or just go bigger on my contracting company.

I have considered buying property, but with the amount of empty buildings and hassles with getting rent out of people and all the restricitions, i think not. My last house, it took almost a year to get a family off the property and there was a klittle pushing involved and not even that worked, just too mnay laws protecting people renting, not even going into the electricity and water bills.

----------


## Blurock

> I invest my money in my own companies and myself,


I can not agree more. Money has to work for you, not you for the money. So many people retire and then realise that they can not live on the income from that safe investment. 

Times have changed and I do not believe there are safe investments any more. The best investment for your old age is to have something that pays you a monthly annuity which grows with inflation. Are there any investments that can give you that?

----------


## ians

My father and many others gave me advise many years ago which i took, and watch now how they are suffering from the same advise they gave me. Their policies they purchased and paid for years, paid out a couple of years ago, my father couldnt even pay off his his little flat he purchased, after selling his house, battling to come out every month on his railway pension. The green and blue companies must have made millions out of all those railway, telkom, municipalities etc employees, because in those days, it was the "right thing to do" or so people thought.

I remember the days, when i was an apply on the railways, we had the green and blue companies there daily trying to sell endowment policies, life insurance, giving you the whole support your children and family for the future, it the "right thing to do speach", take out heart and dreaded disease cover, i was 16 years old, my parents drummed it into me that it was the "right thing to do", if i invest early i will get a much better payout, hundreds of thousands of rands, i have still got 20 years to go (to get to 65) before they would have paid out the hundreds of thousands of rands. Hundreds of thousands of rands at this point in my life wouldnt even be worth much, for example the education policy i had before i lost everything, would not even have covered my kids varsity fees for one year never mind the entire course. You cant even buy a decent house for under R1m at the moment, just image what that money would be worth in 20 years time. So in a way i should be gratefull i lost everything when i did 12 years ago, i have saved the R3000 per month (well by now with the inflation rate increases would be a lot more) and rather invested in myself, My company is already worth more than all those policies put together in less than 10 years. 

I suppose if you are in a dead end job going to work everyday to make your boss rich, thats another story, you would need to be investing money somewhere, so that you can retire one day, so that you can sit in front of the TV and wait to die.

----------

Blurock (16-Jun-13), Mike C (13-Nov-12)

----------


## Mike C

That's quite a testimony you gave there ians - very thought provoking -  because I remember the same speeches given to me when I was young.

There was another one that went "If you are faithful to the company you work for, they will be faithful to you."  Well, that might have been true 50 years ago - but is an old wives tale now.

----------


## Rusty Willard

I think the best way to invest your money is on mutual funds it's on safest way. It will be professionally managed.

----------


## Rafael

> Fixed Deposit or Money Market?


In my opinion, neither of the above.

If you looking for flexibility and liquidity, unit trusts are great.
Depending on the fund determines your return.

----------


## Rafael

> I suppose if you are in a dead end job going to work everyday to make your boss rich, thats another story, you would need to be investing money somewhere, so that you can retire one day


You on the money right there.

----------


## lisa13us

You should invest your money to start up a new small business which helps you earn more money. You  diversify your  investments around a mixture of securities at distinctive hazardous levels.

----------


## flaker

Agree with ians. I remember all those old days, Pearl Assurance, Norwich Union etc.  I accorded all those brokers/agents high respect as they appeared to know of money matters and quoted maturity amounts in big telephone figures. They also changed their cars every two years and each year they were attending conferences in New York and far away places at a time when you did'nt even know what the inside of a plane looked like.These were smart people.

Little did i realise that these cars & flights were being paid from premiums that were being paid by the likes of Ians's parents & my good self. :Frown:

----------

Dave A (16-Jun-13)

----------


## ians

Don't worry I was also one of those sucker who paid for these policies which at the time sounded like a lot of money (millions) from the day  I started working at 16 and had an accident in my early thirties, the policies should have paid out a lot of money instead the broker had changed things over the years and every time he changed something it extended further into the future, little did I know it was all commission based improvements to my policy and the worse part about it, he put life cover onto ever policy, which is also a huge commission enhancement for him, so when it came to time to pay out, because I was hospitalised and couldn't work I couldn't pay the premium so the life cover somehow chewed into the policy to a point that they were worth nothing by the time I got out of hospital and tried to sort out the claims.

I hear a lot of old people complaining about policies not even paying out what they put in never mind the projected figures initially advised at the time the policy was taken out. That why it is one of the industries which has a millionaires club, where do you think all the money came from, smart investment, if you believe that, you must be one of the silly people investing all your money into their millionare club  :Smile:  

If outsurance can pay back your entire premium back after 15 years and run ads which cost millions of rands all day long, huge call centres, just imagine how these companies are screwing you. These insurance/investment companies are running little one man operation in the back of peoples houses (brokers) and raking in millions. The brokers are a dime a dozen.

My policies which were worth hundreds of thousands of rands before the accident, by the time came to pay out a I got a cheque fro R14.75 which I kept and was going to mount in my pub, but never got around to it. 

The worse part of the whole ordeal, they found small print in my disability policy which indicated that my arms and legs where not covered, so yeah you wanna say I seem to always get the wrong end of the stick, that was another ass f$%%$&g I got. Nobody would take on the case to fight it for me because I was not only disable but broke at the time. Money talk and shit walks.

----------

Dave A (16-Jun-13)

----------


## Savvy

I've personally invested my money into a company called Cambist (www.cambist.co.za) where at the time they were offering 24% return per annum which has dropped to 19.5% now but which is still the highest rate of return out of all the opportunities that I know of. I worked for the advertising agency who handled their marketing and got to know the company pretty well and decided to invest with them. After doing so, I also left the agency I was working for and became self-employed. To date I've made R48 000 in passive income over the last 7 months.

The business model essentially is that you purchase debt contracts that are secured by attachment / garnishee orders and become the owner of debt repayments. The original owner gets their cash upfront for liquidity, makes their margin and the new owner (myself) receives a profitable monthly income stream. It's low risk because it's secured through legal processes and contracts and if a debtor fails to repay then the original amount of the contract is repaid by Cambist. Their website explains everything in more detail.

Check them out, do the research you need to do but if this information was useful to you and you do invest please use me, Shane Mc Kay, as a referral as there are commissions involved for referrals. Who's going to say no to earning commission for telling people about where I've invested my money?

----------


## flaker

Savvy, i guarantee that at some point in the very near future this company together with the trust etc will go bust. Think about it, if the trust is so solvent that it can guarantee re-payments to investors, why does the trust itself not buy such debts. 

if investors earn 19.5%, & after some commission being paid for referrals,as well as running costs, then the original debtor has to be paying well in excess of 35% in interest & costs to keep the scheme going.

IMO that 19.5% is also funded from new "investments" & that is why i say it will fail.

Moreover, there are some of us who will not consider returns of this nature kosher.

----------


## Dave A

I'l be honest - if the paperwork matches the advertising, I'm pretty sure this isn't a pyramid scheme or scam. Discounting notes is as old as money, and this isn't far off it.

The names and operations I found connected to this also pretty much checked out fairly favourably.

However I confess, I'm also curious about how the trust absorbs and finances the losses though. 
And where the referral money comes from.

Perhaps an agent's commission agreement with the seller of the "note"?
About the only option that comes to my mind just at the moment.

----------

Savvy (21-Jun-13)

----------


## Savvy

They make their money by buying the debts first from all the major banks in the country, *at a heavily discounted price* which includes theirs' and the end buyers' profit margins, referrals etc. 

The original debtor incurs no additional costs and is secured through an EAO (Emolument Attachment Order) via the courts.

Cambist is by no means a small operation and Cambist itself is a small part of the holdings company www.bridge.co.za. They also offered the same product for a higher-end market where the minimum investment was R1 million. They are very much legit and have many investors. If millionaires are comfortable with investing with them, and I trust they know their stuff, then that also brings some credibility.
They also have 20 odd years of experience in the financial industry specializing in debt collection and finance/loans.

At the end of the day though, it is the investors responsibility to do their own due diligence and make a decision. I have a slight advantage being so personally familiar with the company. I'm also not an employed agent of the company in case any one was wondering.

----------

Dave A (21-Jun-13), flaker (21-Jun-13)

----------


## Blurock

This sounds legit and the returns sound in line with what the industry charges. The problem is, you are buying debt and debt, like vegetables, has the tendency to go bad after a while. Even with a garnishee order, one is not assured of payment, because the debtor may lose his job or resign. 

The credit industry is in a bad shape at the moment and there has been much hype in the press regarding unsecured debt and high debt levels. The banks and the money lenders, as well as the retail industry are battling with bad debts. The old saying is true; high risk  - high return.... :Hmmm:

----------

flaker (21-Jun-13)

----------


## Savvy

When a debtor fails to repay, Cambist pays the buyer back for the original contract amount (without interest). One of the contracts I had bought did in fact go bad but I didn't loose a cent. The only risks I see are the industry, economy or the company goes bust. I don't see this happening anytime soon.

----------


## Dave A

> The only risks I see are the industry, economy or the company goes bust. I don't see this happening anytime soon.


The company certainly has no intention of risking going bust on defaults - that'll be why the liability for defaults is incurred by a trust. It's quite clearly a stopper mechanism that'll cap losses for the operators if everything ever *does* go totally pear shaped.

Savvy has already covered much of what I found in my research. It's real. The operators are experienced. And sharp!

I'm not quite as upbeat as Savvy on the risk side of things though. As Blurock points out, the overall environment just at the moment indicates risk is probably increasing for this segment. Thinking about it, this could explain the recent downgrade on returns - perhaps a bit more margin is being set aside for defaults.

 :Hmmm:  If I'm right - it means this is an investment mechanism with an unusual contra-cycle feature.

----------


## Miro Bagrov

Greetings everyone,

I have a experience in credit risk analysis from a commercial banking side. If anyone wants an analysis of the company in question forward the audited financial statements here and I can provide an objective professional opinion on whether they are likely to go bankrupt or not  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . 
(Hint - if you can't get hold of audited financial statements for this company just run away.)


Off the matter, I think investment is a game where you have to play both sides. 
For instance, the rand weakened because of firstly the lowering of interest rates, then the mining strikes, then the higher inflation (that's like getting a lower salary, your boss getting angry at you, and an increase in your rent all in the same day).

This time no one could invest in Gold or Silver to hedge because their values were also sinking as the US economy "recovered" (but really just "re-covered up" it's losses)... 

The JSE does not let us "short" South African assets, meaning we can not profit on down turn movements in South African assets, because if we did that we would all be rich by now as no one has too much faith in them anyway. (The JSE only lets the investor "buy" a share, that means you can only make money if that share goes up in value.)

So the last option available in the Low-Rand scenario is to use an overseas broker that trades through the NYSE (New York) and lets you "short the rand" from there, (meaning make a profit from a drop in value), and that way bypassing the JSE. 
Or simply to open an overseas investment account in another currency.  Now that way an investor can profit every time his team (the Rand) loses by betting on the opposition. 

It's a vicious game gentlemen - if you are not cannibals prepared to eat your fellow citizens and predators who are prepared to jump an an easy kill, you can't survive investment these days. :Big Grin:

----------


## Jddt

Invest in assets with the highest growth rate and lowest risk provided you calculate the growth and risk correctly.

----------


## Miro Bagrov

I will be even more specific... :Smile: 

If you want to make money, short the Rand against the Dollar, the Euro and the Aussie Dollar just before elections. 

Either way, no matter who wins, the rand will dip at that time.

----------


## Jozsef Borbely

Hi all,

This is my first post to this forum, so I hope I can be so some assistance.

I feel unit trusts are a excellent means of investing, whethers its for retirement or for flexible savings. I recently created a youtube video on unit trusts which I use to explain how they work to my clients.

----------


## joya

You can start another business and invest in property and you can deposit your money in the bank.

----------

