# General Business Category > General Business Forum >  Help needed - computer - tel lines - voip

## Just Gone

My wife has her own company with a server etc etc.  She also has telephone lines linked to this server ie from the server the cable runs to their telephones, then from the telephones to their individual computers - i think this is called voip or something or other.

We are urgently looking at what to do:  We initially thought of getting a totally seperate pabx system, but am now getting so much conflicting advise that I do not know what to do.  At the same time she also wants to move her website/e mails to mweb ? At the same time she has veen advised to get rid of her server and go the cloud route ?? which would be linked to her 4 x telkom lines and her adsl line ??

Is there anyone out there in the Boksburg area that can come and advise us what the heck to do, quote us and then do it ?

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## wynn

I'm sure TecO can help :Batman:      (stop stirring)

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## tec0

> We are urgently looking at what to do:  We initially thought of getting a totally seperate pabx system


Well done Kevinb  :Thumbup:  You where right  :Yes: 

Depending on your setup all your computers will be able to have access to Voice over IP if they can see the net that is. Taking out your server is a bad idea as you lose your central backup capability and security system. 

Running your standard phone lines separate from the computer networks is more costly but recommendable. For the simple reason if your computer network goes down your normal phones will still be operational. 

Cloud computing is typically internet based solution whereby your network gets handled by a service provider that offers this service. It is not recommended as it will slow your internet down and you're FTP SMTP and other services may slow down "unless if you can shape the data pipe" and yes it can get expensive…  :Whistling: 

As for going over to mweb, Normally mweb will provide you a service on your request. It comes down to what you want them to do but my dealings with them points to be very professional. I recommend talking to them first, thy will explain to you in detail what will happen and will help you to deal with the changes step by step.

As a note domain controllers with the PDC and BDC setup may be a old way to handle things but you can look forward to stability and with active directory emplace it is as stable as your hardware basically.

***edit***

Please note that some cowboy companies will run around selling NAS systems as cloud solutions it is not the same thing… Network Associated Storage is still on your local network and not on the internet… Unless if you run VPN but even then it is still not cloud...

Secondly VPN is not a cloud service, some cowboys sell it because it uses internet access to send and store info on a offsite server at another office. This is private networking and works well but can be costly if you are planning to send large amounts of data on a line that is capped.   

Please have a look at this; Cloud computing

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## Just Gone

As I said - I am looking for someone qualified in the Boksburg area to come and see us and advise us properly.

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## Dave A

> Running your standard phone lines separate from the computer networks is more costly but recommendable. For the simple reason if your computer network goes down your normal phones will still be operational.


That's been my big concern when it comes to crossing over to VOIP. An internet outage, or significant transmission lag and you're in trouble (both of which I suffer from at times despite having ADSL fastest blah blah). It would be handy if there was a switchboard system that would handle both VOIP and standard.

The other thing to think about with fixed line is using a twisted pair line instead of a standard line - you can have multiple "telephone lines" on one twisted pair line. It means going with a digital system rather than analogue, but with what Telkom rushes for line rentals, it does work out cheaper overall (unless Telkom's been fiddling with how they charge this sort of setup since I last looked at it).

Kevin, seriously - good luck with this one. I've been fed so much bs by people trying to punt their telephone system to me over the past year I don't know who to believe anymore. Keep shopping for options and you'll probably start feeling the same way.

In fact, thinking about it now - as long as it does the job what else matters? May as well just take the cheapest solution for your numbers that does what you want. The end.

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tec0 (22-Feb-12)

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## Just Gone

@ Dave A - I have had a number of refferrals from guys on this forum and seem to be going with one of them - he comes highly recomended and price is reasonable and seems like the right kinda guy after talking to him on the phone.  But you are right - everyone has a different bs story - their system is better, but at the end of the day I think we are going to go seperate - it seems at the mo when there is a problem with the computer lines/data lines it affects the telephone and visa versa, then to top it all the computer guy blames the pabx guy and also vica versa !!  - So if we just keep them seperate we should have a good old telephone switchboard stand alone and no one can put blame on the other. 

Sheeeez .... didnt realize that there were so man stories out there with pabx systems !!!  What happened to the good ole days when you just installed a straight forward telephone !!  :Wink:

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## tec0

In my opinion only, I will never go for an all in one solution as it is never that cheep in the end. On your network go for a gigabit LAN setup run servers old school with both PDC and BDC along with active directory. It simply works. 

If you can afford it get a product that can shape and control your internet line so that you can give some services priority and control usage and security.

Yes it is nice to have a single system that will connect your handset to Voice over IP and normal phone line that said if your network crashes for any reason you are in trouble.

The simple truth is dedicated systems work. I know it is old school and sometimes a bit more expensive but in the end you do not want to be depended on a single system.

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## Dave A

I think we're on about the same page on this one, Kevin.

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## Just Gone

> I think we're on about the same page on this one, Kevin.


Yep totally .... thanks Dave - I do think simple is the best route to go  :Smile:

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## adrianh

Are there not systems available that 1st try to route via voip and fall back to fixed line if it can't connect?

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## Just Gone

> Are there not systems available that 1st try to route via voip and fall back to fixed line if it can't connect?


Yes it seems they can all do that - receive on the telkom lines and dial out voip

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## IMHO

Guys, I would really like to know what you are talking about when you say if your Internet is down, your VOIP is down. Are you talking about something like Skype?

As I understand it, VOIP is just replacing your traditional PABX system in the building. Nothing to do with your land line or cell line, which remains. It simply is a dedicated PC, preferably running Linux with PABX software, giving you control and reports. Something like Astrix that runs on Linux, which is better because viruses target Windows. (This PC have special 'cards' that take landlines as input and convert it to VOIP and vice versa. Can be digital or analog) But then again, your Internet is not even necessary connected to this PC, so viruses does not come into play. You keep your ADSL or whatever you use connected to your network.

Then this dedicated PC links all your IP phones wireless to your standalone Linux PC, which is now your PABX. You control the software and IP phones and do not need a technician when an extension is dead, paying R450 for a call out to trace and fix a broken copper wire in a wall box, hooked by the cleaning lady with her broom! Each IP phone has an extension and the PC gives you all the features of big PABX systems and messages, routing, automation, mail boxes, dialing plans, and all the whistles and bells. When the PC goes down, it is like your PABX goes down. No difference. It is totally independent from your network and Internet.

And you still need Telkom or/and a Cellphone service provider, probably both, as when you dial a cell number, it is routed via a cell provider, or when you dial a land line, it is routed via Telkom, giving you the cheapest rate like that. You have land line number(s) with hunting facilities in the Telkom exchange like normal, and you have a cell number for clients preferring to phone that, because they dial from a cellphone.(Have a simm card unit build into the PC) Everything routed via your Linux standalone PC which is just replacing your traditional PABX.

Biggest advantage is that your phones is now totally wireless,(not cordless plugged into an extension) except for power and you move your extensions without asking someone to come do it. Biggest downfall is the VOIP quality, with feedback on the line.(Hearing your own voice) Phone an IT company to experience what I am talking about. They all use it and can be irritating from time to time.

Hardware wise, the PC is by far cheaper than a PABX, but the telephone instruments can be pricey, depending how fancy you want to be. If it is a big building, you might need additional access points to cover distance. If you are computer literate, the biggest saving is over the long hall, saving on maintenance and call out fees/contracts.

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tec0 (23-Feb-12)

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## Just Gone

> Guys, I would really like to know what you are talking about when you say if your Internet is down, your VOIP is down. Are you talking about something like Skype?


Well this is exactly what is happening to my wife's system !  She has a cable running from the server to the telephones and from the telephones to their individual computers.  So when the internet is down, so are the telephone lines !  And depending on who you talk to they say that is the case with voip - and that is exactly why we are going the seperate telephone route.

As far as I know voip means voice over IP.  Therefore if her internet is down, her communication is down - this is not my unqualified opinion, it is a fact with her and as I say most of the "technicians" I talk to say the same.

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## IMHO

Well Kevin, that is why I suggest a separate PC, running Linux. Incorporating your network is possible, but looking for trouble. You are right, VOIP is anything that makes use of an IP, but in the industry it is taken for granted that VOIP is WiFi as well, ie. no cables running from PC to telephone. In my mind there is only two ways to do it. PABX or the way I described.

It is still not clear to me why your telephone lines is down when your Internet is down. Do you have Telkom and/or Cellphone lines? If not, what is the service on the Internet you use to make calls to landlines and cell phones? How do you get your internet service, landline ADSL, dedicated line? Or some wireless Service provider?

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tec0 (23-Feb-12)

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## tec0

In some cases if the line goes down then your "voice" and "data" goes down with it. I didn't know about the Linux solution mostly because I don't use it. "Most people don’t thanks to configuration and difficult troubleshooting. 

I am not a big fan of the voice to IP conversion tech as you say the echo in it is a bit… well it is not what most people would like. That said the tech is getting better. 

My reason why I like the traditional system is its simplicity and dedication. Bad installations is just that if your cables are all over the place then you have a serious problem. 

I also like the wireless solutions but again wifi port scanners and other programs made it just too easy. That said it is getting better but not to the point where I would trust it completely as of yet. Again I am sure that Linux can give a more secure wifi network.

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## IMHO

> In some cases if the line goes down then your "voice" and "data" goes down with it. 
> 
> I also like the wireless solutions but again wifi port scanners and other programs made it just too easy. That said it is getting better but not to the point where I would trust it completely as of yet. Again I am sure that Linux can give a more secure wifi network.


I use 2 x ISDN lines for voice, giving me four lines and numbers in the exchange. I then have one dedicated line for ADSL and do not use it for voice at all. 

If you use strong passwords, the encryption is fine, from security point of view. It is using easy paswords, that you can remember, that cause the problem. You have to use a dedicated password program to store them. Something like KeePass, that is open source and free on sourceforge.net.

This is what a strong password looks like. P5JM7BMnTJjx6IgzIJyE This is 105 bits, you can even go stronger. Depending what your application allows you.

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tec0 (23-Feb-12)

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## IMHO

Spoke to an IT company now on the phone again. When I heard my voice echo, I asked why it is. The reply, my headset is buggered and they refuse to give me a new one. So there you have it. He adjusted the headset position on his head and the echo was gone. With a handset you will not have this problem.

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tec0 (23-Feb-12)

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## Dave A

A definition: VoIP is Voice Over Internet Protocol. VoIP is the routing of voice conversations over the Internet or through any other IP based network.

What's being promoted to me (rather vigorously and from a number of sources) is kinda what IMHO is saying, but you're plugging into an off-site server. The punters are claiming I'll save about 30% on my current call spend. To some extent it's kinda like Skype-Out, but with PBX equipment and yada yada.

Has no-one been hitting on you about VOX Supaphones and PBX's yet? I can't swing a cat around here without hitting someone bugging me about it or something similar.

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tec0 (23-Feb-12)

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## Just Gone

> Well Kevin, that is why I suggest a separate PC, running Linux. Incorporating your network is possible, but looking for trouble. You are right, VOIP is anything that makes use of an IP, but in the industry it is taken for granted that VOIP is WiFi as well, ie. no cables running from PC to telephone. In my mind there is only two ways to do it. PABX or the way I described.
> 
> It is still not clear to me why your telephone lines is down when your Internet is down. Do you have Telkom and/or Cellphone lines? If not, what is the service on the Internet you use to make calls to landlines and cell phones? How do you get your internet service, landline ADSL, dedicated line? Or some wireless Service provider?


That is the million dollar question and that is why I have been given so many answers and that is why we are going totally separate pabx ! The current tel system uses asterix thro the server.  Also mentioned before - 4 x incoming telkom lines. Internet is ADSL but they all seem to go to the stations with one cable.  The internet guy blames the asterix telephone guy and vica versa.  So to stop the kak and to fix things we will keep it simple and seperate !!

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## IMHO

@Kevin. Not a bad decision. You are just going to get upset when the maintenance issues start, in about a year from now!

I am also on PABX. Will stay there till the current one will not be replaced by insurance. Then I will def. go the way I described above. Not for everyone though. You must have computer/network/IP savvy to DIY, otherwise you are just in the same boat again.

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## Just Gone

> @Kevin. Not a bad decision. You are just going to get upset when the maintenance issues start, in about a year from now!


What maintenance issues ?? Cant be more than the voip current system ?

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## IMHO

Yes, you're right, your current system also sound maintenance intensive. With PABX you should have less problems, but when you do, call out charges is heavy, unless you take out  a maintenance contract, which add up very quickly as well. PABX is notorious for dead extensions and cards that blow(power surge). Those cards is very expensive. 

But I am not trying to tell you it was the wrong decision. If you cannot DIY a VOIP system,(separate from your network), you made the right choice!

Dave, around hear we do not hear much about VOX. Sounds like they trying to get dealers going and do not want to give too much info. I will research a bit and tell you what I think when done. At first glance, I will not touch.

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## tec0

Have a look at Mweb Business MTALK PBX




> VBX offer complete communication solutions for businesses that wish to combine the features of sophisticated PBX solutions with the simplicity and affordability of Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) technologies.
> 
> Based on open source technology, VBX PBX solutions provide more functionality and flexibility than traditional PBX systems, as well as substantial call cost savings *thanks to least-cost routing* through MWEB’s MTALK Webcall products.
> 
> The Support agreement that is required for the PBX solution will give you:
> 
>     * 24 / 7 Remote support
>     * Swap out of faulty hardware
>     * Peace of mind


This sounds good and I think an inquiry is in order  :Smile: 




> Who should use it?
> 
>     * Single Business - Standalone businesses and networked branch and head offices in small and midsize organisations that need a complete solution for telephony, messaging, networking, conferencing, customer management and unified communications.
> 
>     * Multi-Office Businesses; Inter-branch calls and conference calls from PBX extensions are free, and the cell phone and international calls significantly less than Telkom calls.

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## hackergal

I don't know anyone in your area, as I'm in KZN however, I have VoIP from VOX TELECOM in addition to a Telkom line for my business (you need the Telkom line to be on the internet to have VoIP).  I agree with earlier posts to not get rid of your server and SA internet is so darn slow that the cloud is not a good option at the moment.  

Vox are in Centurion but you may like to give them a call as I found them EXCELLENT in terms of service and follow up on even a small problem.

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tec0 (24-Feb-12)

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## Just Gone

> I don't know anyone in your area, as I'm in KZN however, I have VoIP from VOX TELECOM in addition to a Telkom line for my business (you need the Telkom line to be on the internet to have VoIP).  I agree with earlier posts to not get rid of your server and SA internet is so darn slow that the cloud is not a good option at the moment.  
> 
> Vox are in Centurion but you may like to give them a call as I found them EXCELLENT in terms of service and follow up on even a small problem.


Thanks gal ......... I def will do that  :Smile:

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