standard bank

[Frankincense]

"By my calculations, three nanoseconds must have elapsed"....if you late you're late.....System Roll-out...

[Dave A]

Remember: This was written by a 98 year old woman;

Better late than never

[Alan]

Watch this space.... a Hum Dinger is about to break!!!!!

[Dave A]

Sorry Al, that story you're waiting for might be a while yet.

Remarkably innovative banking fees deserve a truly creative response

[murdock]

tough times are a good thing because it makes you look at things you wouldnt normally bother with...money goes in money goes out the fact that so many people are pulling the butt out of things you dont take note...you just pay... because its R50 here R23 there small amounts which dont send off warning bells...like if they debited you for say R2000 one hit for all these little amounts...an idea is to take you bank statement and print it out....get a highlighter and highlight all the bank chargers but i mean all of them service fees...debit fees...withdrawl fees...bond costs and fees...vehicle costs and fees...i think you might be surpised when you add them all up...from the R0.85 to the 3 seperate interest on overdraft fees....my biggest expense in my bussiness at this point in time is standard bank.

i have already started the process of becoming debit free again...no more overdrafts...no more credit cards...garage cards...debit orders...clothing accounts etc...i get as many customers as i can to pay me cash by offering a discount for cash so that i dont pay for deposit fees then withdrawl fees...i dont use cards for purchasing anymore i pay cash for stuff at the tills so there no debit card fee or credit card fees for the seller which means a discount at the tills and from other people i am dealing in cash.

my next vehicle will be purchased for cash which will save me huge amounts of money again considering what i am paying interest...insurance etc on the vehicle i am driving at the moment.

thats something else which makes me laugh i havent had insurance for years...tata ma chances...i had to take out insurance on the house because of the bond...had a small incident so i put in a claim...the problem hadnt even been repaired yet and i have already got the new increased premium...they will get a return on the pay out within 18 months.

[sgafc]

Same here. Never thought I would pay cash for computers and furniture(office and household). For the last two months or so, very little funds are going through my bank accounts. Creative measures are enforced by just cashing cheques and paying directly into creditors accounts. Bank charges have dropped by 40%!

Some credit cards have been paid up. HP agreements settled, and I remain positive about my own financial future. I am advising clients not to seek bank finance for business expansion. Of course as far as Homeloans and Vehicle Finance is concerned, the banks remain the only option, although vehicle dealers are also becoming creative, and circumventing the banking system(especially second hand dealers).

But credit cards, overdrafts, and other trivial financing "rip-offs" can go.

Hope people can remain committed to their own financial "systems", even in future when things might improve...

[Dave A]

From my experience, debt acts as a lever. It can either push you forward or hold you back.

I think the trick is to draw a line between debt that doesn't produce a return and debt that does.

Debt that doesn't produce a return is stuff like a bigger TV, top of range sound system, fancy furniture - if you want that (because you certainly don't need it) you should be buying it cash.

Debt that can produce a return might be property, vehicle, working capital for a business. But you need to be careful. Remember debt is a lever - it tends to amplify. If you make a mistake or end up on the wrong end of it, it will accelerate your fall as surely and with even more force than it was supposed to push you forward.

[murdock]

i have been busting my a** off to make some good money...working between 15 and 24 hours a day for almost 7 weeks now...to become debt free...i only have about R10000 to go then i will no longer have any credit card debt...bank overdrafts...etc...only my bond and 1 vehicle finance.

i check my account yesterday morning like i do ever morning and all is well...today i get a call from the bank today for the first time ever...customer service to advise me that my account is overdrawn. ...so i go online like i do everday and there it is overdrawn by R700...so my question to the person on the phone is are you going to return item? so i am told...yes...my next question was why the call? to just to justify the R115 they will be ripping me off because they will be returning one debt order...it hasnt happened yet but will when they update their system in 2 days time.

what i dont understand is why the bank is running a system which is 2 days behind...i just dont get how you do transactions for example on the 31 when you go online 2 days later and print out a statement it is not the same as the one printed out 2 days prior.

well at least the up side to this...the bank will not be increasing my credit facilities anytime soon...maybe in the future if i just haver 1 dishonoured cheque or debit order i will be able to keep my credit limits down...saving me huge amounts on overdraft fees interest etc.

credit is just toooo easy and i have seen many people get drawn into the use of credit cards overdrafts etc to keep up their lifestyles...and even just to keep afloat in this challenging economic time...the banks are smiling making millions if not billions out of us.

interest rate comes down...service fees go up so they still win...and we just keep paying.

[Frankincense]

"what i dont understand is why the bank is running a system which is 2 days behind"

Volume & Priorities....

...millions of accounts running off the servers in real time...transactional gateways and pick-ups of defaulting balances batched during night...and subsequent reversals batched for following night and so on... cannot happen real time...system infrastructure developed to maximize revenue, client experience lower order concern...

....

Revelation 13:17

[murdock]

so on the 31 of the month the bank looks like it turned over lets say 50 billion rand...by the second thay have made an additional couple million from the charges.

anyone have any advice on which bank to move to...

i am looking for a bank which has the least service fees...but more importantly customer service...or am i dreaming.

everyone i speak to complains about different banks...i am yet to hear of a bank which offers customer service and actually assists you.

[murdock]

ok so i was expecting this...i logged onto my account to see what they where going to return...there it was returned item and R115 fee...what i wasnt expecting was to see that they returned the highest debit order which comes off my account not the one which is about the amount overdrawn...then i got to thinking clever move by standard bank because it was my "standard bank" vehicle debit order now they rip another hole in my a** by charging me fees because of the debit order being returned...i am starting to understand how this works now.

[Dave A]

Actually, left to their own devices, I believe what they bounce is essentially a lottery. They're not allowed to pick and choose anymore so in theory it's random.

That said, bouncing the biggest item first means they would end up bouncing the smallest number of debits, thus raising the bounce fee the least number of times.

For people stuck in this situation: If you can see it coming, it looks like it costs the same to load a stop payment. You're still not going to be popular, but at least you can pick who you are irritating.

[sgafc]

Budget/ Prepare for bank problems

I like your style Murdock. Keep scrutinizing those bank statements with a fine comb, then you will see successful financial management. Banks know we are negligent in our finances, hence all this sophistry in enslaving us. PLAN, PLAN and PLAN, and do your number crunching.
If you know you have a certain amount of important debit orders going off. Do the following;
* Ensure that funds banked are clear(THEY Dont honour uncleared funds anymore)
* If its clear, deposit extra cash, just in case(ever experienced the comical situation, where you provide for a debit order of say R2000.00, and your account is R2050.00in credit, but you see the amount returned because they took R75.00 for "rip-off" charges, first, then the debit order ran, and the "system", bounced the payment because you were overdrawn by R25!), rather put in extra cash, just to cover your @ss.
* STOP DO's that are not important, and pay cash wherever you can.

Banks are compounding financial problems, not aleviating them.
You will not find a better bank. Maybe you can consider a small savings account, and just work with cash.

Start looking at investing in gold coins, because things are not going to get better.

[daveob]

You will not find a better bank.

This is very true - to the banks ( that's ANY bank ), you're just a number.

In the old days, you could build up a relationship with your bank 'manager', but nowadays, most of the things that happen on your account are fully automated - so you can't phone up Suzie and tell her you're coming in to deposit funds tomorrow morning.

Even if you could, remember that, especially in the current economic times where employment opportunities are limited, the staff at the bank have only ONE THING in there minds that take priority over everything else ( especially you, the 'client' ) and that's their job security - they sure ain't going to do ANYTHING to put that at risk - they have families to feed, bonds to pay, etc.

Find the bank that offers the best rates ( either credit interest or lower bank fees ) that suit your level of account activity and go with them.

Personally we were with ABSA for over 20 years and recently switched to FNB for better rates. We now review every 12 months and have no loyalty to our current service provider - we go with what's best for us.

ps .. switching banks also gives you the opportunities to "start from fresh" with the "standard" surities ( all in the bank's favour ), and lets you closely evaluate these with the knowledge that you didn't have when you first started out ( when you signed all the 'standard' paperwork that the clerk gave you just because she told you it was the 'standard' thing that everyone signs ).

[daveob]

and just to add fuel to the fire, check out this latest report :

http://www.fin24.com/articles/default/display_article.aspx?ArticleId=1518-1786_2551685