This is how you De-suckyfy the Windows 8 interface.

[adrianh]

I spent some time on the issue tonight. It seems that the machines don't like to belong to a Workgroup and a Homegroup. I checked each machine and cleared out the Homegroup. I then rejoined them to the Workgroup and rebooted them. I got the 7 macnes to share the printers with one another and also to see the printers on the XP machines. If it all still works in the morning I'll try to get the XP machines to see the printers on the 7 machines. It seems though that one also needs to load the 32 bit drivers onto the 7 machines so that the XP machines can download and install them. I'll have to try and figure it out in the morning. I haven't tried to get the 8 machines onto the network or to share any of the printers, that is a chore for another day...

[irneb]

<RANT>Nope, I've had similar issues before. Everything since Vista gave huge network problems, prior to that it wasn't as bad. To the point where we had to scrap a wide-format printer (i.e. something which cost in excess of R 200 000) simply because its controller was in fact a WinNT 4.0 machine and couldn't "talk" to any Windows newer than XP.

Even now I've got network problems with Windows 7 / XP. At home I've stopped using them together. As soon as they need to connect with each other you loose hair. And yes, it's constantly inconsistent (yes oxymoron intended) - one day works, the next it doesn't: no reason, just because it doesn't "feel" like it. I've even had situations where you run the Trouble Shooting wizard, it "fixes" the problem and suddenly you can "see" the various PC's on the network - then an hour later the same problem crops up (you haven't even restated any of the PC's).

Now I've turned my main PC into a Linux server which also handles my internet share, printers & shared folders. It never gives issues, I can connect to all of it from my W7 laptop as well as one of my old XP PC's. A friend of mine's even connected his MacBook without any extra configs to it over WiFi at one stage. I can even turn on my phone's hotspot and have the server automatically share that across the wired network without any other input that to turn on the hotspot on the phone. I've tried that with XP and with W7 - neither works well (always needs some "click-here", "beg-there" to happen on the PC as well), and also works one day but not the other.

If I can get away from any form of "Windows" I'd jump at the chance! Not only is it inconsistently crash prone / non-connective, it uses the network very inefficiently. I've tested this between 2 W7's and 2 XP's - on my 1G LAN I've never gotten throughput of more than 40MB/s, usually no more than 20MB/s (even from an SSD which regularly does local throughput of around 120MB/s). But when I do the same between 2 Linuxes (or even the BSD I used to make my own NAS) I find throughput around 80MB/s (which is very close to max for a 1G LAN, and at the HDD's max speed).</RANT>

Sorry, had to get some vitriol out of my blood!

IMO: The way to "de-suckify" windows is to uninstall it.

[IanF]

We have a HP Microserver setup with unRaid. Just the free version as 2 disks and a Raid disk works fine. To find a NAS system that played nicely with W7 was hard for me.
Haven't tried W8 yet. I have been told that the way pros print with W8 is to drop a file into a hot folder. But you need to setup hotfolders for all paper weights and sizes and types

[irneb]

I have been told that the way pros print with W8 is to drop a file into a hot folder. But you need to setup hotfolders for all paper weights and sizes and types

Yes! Though the word "professional" in that sentence is probably subjective. That was also the only way we could print to that WinNT RIP server - have the server poll a folder to see if any files are there, then if found copy it directly to the port on which the printer is connected. Unfortunately this means the "file" needs to be the raw data which the printer understands: i.e. the data sent from the printer driver over the network.

In some cases we could get the program to send HPGL/2 code to those files. But if we tried implementing the same as a windows printer driver there was user access issues as the printer driver works in the System user space - which means it's not allowed to link to shared folders. And then even using a syncing service (i.e. something like robocopy) to copy the "local hot folder" to the "shared hot folder" through a user initialized sync didn't work: the files saved by the printer driver is not accessible from the user account (unless that user is an Administrator).

We were unwilling to set all users as admins - that just begs for virus infections!

This is the printer/scanner combo we had (scanner left, printer right):


The thing in the middle with the CRT screen is a box with a PC inside which controlled the Océ equipment through proprietary connections (not LPT/Serial/USB). And Océ's software only ran on NT4, their updated software (available for Win2003 server and above) was not compatible with the laser A0 printer - so we couldn't just upgrade the controller. The whole setup worked absolutely perfect without hiccup (as long as the users were on XP or below), there was NO reason to replace anything except due to Vista/W7.

[IanF]

Hi PMB
They use fiery RIPs and pay for extra programmes. We have a fiery but didn't buy the hotfolders addon.
What I am told is that this handles the transparency settings in print files a lot better.
I will wait see if it is worth the extra cost.

[adrianh]

Lo and behold this morning the WinSuck 7 machines are totally blind, they don't see one another or the network printers. What a horrible OS having to mess around with the damn network every day!

[irneb]

What a horrible OS having to mess around with the damn network every day!

Yep, the only way to get around that is to use at least the Pro versions and setup a Domain Server. Workgroups and/or Homegroups are a joke at best when using in conjunction with Vista or later. XP used to be reasonable with workgroups, but even there I'd advise a Domain instead. Note this just alleviates some of the issues, it doesn't remove them - it's just that Domains seem to keep W7 on track more often.

Edit: Yet another place where Linux could save you lots of money: http://allthatsevil.wordpress.com/20...in-controller/

I.e. use Linux so Windows can actually talk to another Windows without the exorbitant license fees for a Windows Server.

[adrianh]

Sure but it is a very drastic solution. All I want is to cure the Windows 7 Alzheimer's permanently!

[irneb]

Lo and behold this morning the WinSuck 7 machines are totally blind, they don't see one another or the network printers. What a horrible OS having to mess around with the damn network every day!

In that case, all I can say is:

IMO: The way to "de-suckify" windows is to uninstall it.

[IanF]

Adrian
Do you have fixed IP addresses for your computers and printers? Just our laptops are on DHCP.

[adrianh]

Everything is on DHCP. I ran an IP scanner just now. The Windows 7 machines are not reachable from anywhere on the network but they are able to ping other devices on the network. I can ping and XP machine from Win 7 but not Win 7 from XP.

[IanF]

I would change all the computers and networked printers to a fixed IP just make sure there are no duplicate IP addresses. Only our laptops and wifi phones are on DHCP.
Here are my network settings for my PC

[adrianh]

I just tested another thing with interesting results. I turned off TCPIP V6 and both the windows and McAfee firewalls and now the machine is happy. I'm just going to turn the Windows firewall back on and see what it does.