USB 3 still not ubiquitous

[irneb]

I've just been thinking ... after doing some hardware window-shopping

Why do you still get USB2 ports on laptops and PC's? Apparently USB3 (and from my own experience) can handle any USB2 / USB1 device. It used to have some incompatibility issues, but that's been sorted out since 2012.

But still you find PC's/Laptops/NAS/routers/etc. with mostly usb2 and one or 2 usb3's tucked in the back. Usually I'm p'ed off when the front ports are all USB2 and when I want to plug in my USB3 disc and get anywhere near decent speed I have to rubber-neck it around the back! This makes no sense cost-wise. The USB2 ports need their own controller and the USB3 needs yet another. So why do manufacturers place 2 chips onto the motherboard instead on the one which can handle it all? Can't they just axe the USB2 controller already? And if they've got some "stupid" reason for keeping it, what's the difference in the same reason as to why there's no more USB1 / 1.1 ports?

Sorry for asking it here, but google gave me next to no pertinent answers.

[tec0]

I've just been thinking ... after doing some hardware window-shopping

Why do you still get USB2 ports on laptops and PC's? Apparently USB3 (and from my own experience) can handle any USB2 / USB1 device. It used to have some incompatibility issues, but that's been sorted out since 2012.

But still you find PC's/Laptops/NAS/routers/etc. with mostly usb2 and one or 2 usb3's tucked in the back. Usually I'm p'ed off when the front ports are all USB2 and when I want to plug in my USB3 disc and get anywhere near decent speed I have to rubber-neck it around the back! This makes no sense cost-wise. The USB2 ports need their own controller and the USB3 needs yet another. So why do manufacturers place 2 chips onto the motherboard instead on the one which can handle it all? Can't they just axe the USB2 controller already? And if they've got some "stupid" reason for keeping it, what's the difference in the same reason as to why there's no more USB1 / 1.1 ports?

Sorry for asking it here, but google gave me next to no pertinent answers.

The problem is heat in most cases. USB 3 runs really hot on notebooks but even that doesn't fully explain it. I suspect that they have bunch of old parts and is using until they run out then only will we get USB 3 only.

[adrianh]

Simple, so that you will buy a new PC next year. I hane USB3 active hub and my external drive refuses point blank to work with it, let alone step down to USB2.

Planned obsolescence my friend, that is the name of the game....

[tec0]

Simple, so that you will buy a new PC next year. I hane USB3 active hub and my external drive refuses point blank to work with it, let alone step down to USB2.

Planned obsolescence my friend, that is the name of the game....

Well if you use a USB3 hub with USB2 host it will work "sometimes" but for the most part it will not because the USB3 hub was build for USB3 devices...

[AndyD]

There's two types of USB 3 plugs. One of them is compatible with the older USB2 sockets the other isn't. If your USB3 device will physically fit into the older USB2 socket then it should work every time at USB2 speeds.

Not sure why more PC's and laptops don't support USB3, probably because we're living in a dumping ground for end of run and previous generation products.

[tec0]

There's two types of USB 3 plugs. One of them is compatible with the older USB2 sockets the other isn't. If your USB3 device will physically fit into the older USB2 socket then it should work every time at USB2 speeds.

Not sure why more PC's and laptops don't support USB3, probably because we're living in a dumping ground for end of run and previous generation products.

I think it comes down to power. My AMD has USB3 and it runs as hot as hell. Now I am using water cooling for the core and have enough fans in it to scare a wind-tunnel but the USB3 still runs very hot regardless. I have a feeling that the power demand is really high and that some notebooks can't cope with both the power and heat. I know your newer notebooks solved this with small heat-pipes so it is less of of a problem now.

[adrianh]

I'm with Andy, we're simply a dumping ground for older technology.

[tec0]

I'm with Andy, we're simply a dumping ground for older technology.

That is the choice our importers make not the choice of the companies... Simple truth they can just as easy say no to older tech. Truth is the profit margin his higher.

[irneb]

Thanks all, you make good points - especially the selling of obsolescence. The heat issue might be something specific to only some controllers, I've never had it in mine and I use USB3 nearly exclusively, and also extensively (external data-disc with 200MB to 2GB Revit files constantly read/write when working for hours on end). Perhaps it's AMD which use high temp controllers, I'm using i7 in both my home PC and laptop and a Xeon at the office - so all probably Intel controllers as well (though I don't know this for sure).

As for SA being the discontinued dumping ground: I'm not sure that's the case, not for USB anyway - you might have a point in general though. I was answering a question yesterday on another forum about one of the programs I use 90% of my day, searching for a decent laptop. Even the international web sites were advertising "new" stuff with both 2 & 3 ports. So it seems even overseas they're still installing the 15+ year old ports.

[tec0]

Thanks all, you make good points - especially the selling of obsolescence. The heat issue might be something specific to only some controllers, I've never had it in mine and I use USB3 nearly exclusively, and also extensively (external data-disc with 200MB to 2GB Revit files constantly read/write when working for hours on end). Perhaps it's AMD which use high temp controllers, I'm using i7 in both my home PC and laptop and a Xeon at the office - so all probably Intel controllers as well (though I don't know this for sure).

As for SA being the discontinued dumping ground: I'm not sure that's the case, not for USB anyway - you might have a point in general though. I was answering a question yesterday on another forum about one of the programs I use 90% of my day, searching for a decent laptop. Even the international web sites were advertising "new" stuff with both 2 & 3 ports. So it seems even overseas they're still installing the 15+ year old ports.

Your i5 desktop also have the problem but you can solve it with a USB3 PCI expansion card. Same if true for the AMD desktop. I think it might be "Elcheapo" vs High quality here I don't think it is AMD only problem or a Intel problem I think it has everything to do with High end VS low end.

[tec0]

irneb > was wondering did you ever got to play with a raspberry pi? Is there an XP only hack for it yet?

[irneb]

irneb > was wondering did you ever got to play with a raspberry pi? Is there an XP only hack for it yet?

Sorry, no. I've not gotten the time yet. Actually didn't have much of a December even, never mind much free time for fiddling with a hobby.

[adrianh]

USB 2 ports are still fitted to machines because USB 3 is not backward compatible to USB 1.1

Did you know that full speed USB 3 actually has 9 wires. That is why the plugs are coded in blue. The blue USB A plug has the additional 5 pins imbedded deep in the plug and the USB B plug has a totally different shape to the 1.1 & 2 plug.

[tec0]

Here are some pictures of the types you will find also a bit of technical info on the more common USB 3 connectors

[irneb]

Thank you, that at least makes a bit of sense. I can possibly live with that if the "old backwards compatible" USB ports were by default placed in the less accessible positions, and the new "catch most current device connection" USB3 ports were the ones in front as well as the most numerous.

But I'd imagine that these days 1.1 devices are rather rare to find. It would only be stuff like very old USB mice/scanners/printers/etc. I know I had an old Epson scanner which worked on USB 1.1, but since after WinXP you couldn't get it to work on newer OS's in any case. I haven't seen ANY new devises without at least USB2 connection these days, and those you can plug directly into a USB3 port!

So to the manufacturers I'd advise one of 2 scenarios: (1) Install 4x USB3 ports and 1x USB2/1.1 instead of the usual other way round, and place the old port type at the back - again instead of the other way round. Or (2) Omit the UsB2/1.1 entirely from (at least your high-end PC) and sell extra expansion cards containing USB 2/1.1 ports for those few clients who may perhaps still be using 10+ year old devices.

Edit: Actually one where it's an entire no-brainer to omit the USB2's is in NAS boxes. I can simply shake my head and mumble WTF in nearly all of these. I mean, for external connection to a NAS ... what exactly do you think the user is going to plug in there? An old scanner from the 90s? You certain of that? If so come here and let me