Warning - Never say that you are selling your laptop while its in the vicinity.

[Dave A]

Francois, what you've got there is a Big Gun when lots of people are just trying to kill ants.

That said, I've got a notion Vista's bad rep (if we ignore the original processor chip issue) comes from the OEM Vista Home installed on so many off-the-shelf machines. When it comes to getting it to behave well on a peer-to-peer network, it's just not funny.

Then there is the "standard apps" issue. My favourite one: That Vista email program is the pits. More bugs there than in a sceptic tank.

[Loman]

Never had an issue with Vista Ultimate, coolest thing since XP...can't wait for XP to be outlawed!!!

Love it when XP'ers cant run stuff for Vista. Serves them right for resisting the 6Chan6ge6.

Nice rig, but its well known that just by having vista installed
on your system decreases performance on certain apps by as
much as 40%. Google it, you'll find tons of reviews validating it.
Like this one:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xp-vs-vista,1531-4.html

XP beats Vista especially hard when it comes to gaming.
Its a well known fact that gamers don't use XP if only because
of the drop in performance. In fact you are the first gamer
i know of who prefer to use Vista.

"As far as I'm concerned DRM isn't stopping piracy, its encouraging it" - DRM is compliance to those who have their 6int6ernet6 connection(any Gamer should have that, if not, they dont deserve the title) and an original software disk with a shiney plastic box with pictures on it to be unwrapped like a bride on the first night...


If you building a new rig....dont install XP. It will crack your registries' virginity...lay Vista/Win7 upon her from inception of her first post and your crystal ball will give you what you want...and only use purchased orginal software...(Yes you may need to register it online first - it's for your own Good)
To quote: "Whereas the pirated one is as easy as install & play."...thank your God you don't ride a superbike....pirated parts Kill...logic will tell you even pirated software kills your Crystal Ball...ever tried to re-use a condom?

I don't use pirated software, but just like anyone that
had problems with some of the games like Half Life's horrible
Steam Validation process, I was tempted.
XP might have its flawes but its still a shining beacon of light
compared to Vista.

Oh well, leave out the E Duo's, and start a Quad or even i7 on an X58 Mobo.

Personally i feel that spending more than R 10 000 on a pc
is insane. Especially on a system that can't utilize its full
potential since the only software currently making full use
of four or more cores is photoshop software. Have a look
at a comparison chart with the Core2Duo E8400 or E8500
and compare that with your Q6600. You would see that on
some applications and most games there isn't much of a
gain in using the quad core.
Even if there is a 120 core processor for the same price as
a quad core i still won't buy it for the exact same reason
i don't buy tampons. I CANT USE THEM.

Disable your Speedstep in Bios, Crank up the FSB and push up your fire(Voltages) to all your componenents, even RAM & Bridges with a serious effort on the cooling and watch your System Rock.

Perhaps it you use XP as an OS instead of Vista you
won't even need to overclock.
By the way, on a system such as yours you don't
need to overclock in the first place. You'll barely see
a performance gain when playing games and stressing
your components unnecessarily.
How much gain in FPS do you have after overclocking?

The E6300 was a nice CPU to overclock for me, but
my next PC will definitely have either the E8400 or E8500.
Depending which one is on special first. (hey its tough times, ain't it?)
Unless there are a lot of games and apps making full
use of four or more cores shortly. Then I'll have another look.

BUT WHATEVER THE AMOUNT OF CORES IT MIGHT HAVE, I WILL STILL BE RUNNING XP UNTIL WINDOWS SEVEN ARRIVES.

[Dave A]

i don't buy tampons. I CANT USE THEM.

Pretty relieved we at least got that one cleared up and out of the way

[BonaFide]

I am an extreme Gamer and Respect Good software...runnin watercooled Rig with Q66 and Vista Ultimate 64 bit overclocked ...37" full hdtv Nvidia Graphics 8800 series shit, 8Gb ram...7.1 surround 'n other stuff all over..

Never had an issue with Vista Ultimate, coolest thing since XP...can't wait for XP to be outlawed!!!

Love it when XP'ers cant run stuff for Vista. Serves them right for resisting the 6Chan6ge6.

"As far as I'm concerned DRM isn't stopping piracy, its encouraging it" - DRM is compliance to those who have their 6int6ernet6 connection(any Gamer should have that, if not, they dont deserve the title) and an original software disk with a shiney plastic box with pictures on it to be unwrapped like a bride on the first night...


If you building a new rig....dont install XP. It will crack your registries' virginity...lay Vista/Win7 upon her from inception of her first post and your crystal ball will give you what you want...and only use purchased orginal software...(Yes you may need to register it online first - it's for your own Good)
To quote: "Whereas the pirated one is as easy as install & play."...thank your God you don't ride a superbike....pirated parts Kill...logic will tell you even pirated software kills your Crystal Ball...ever tried to re-use a condom?

Oh well, leave out the E Duo's, and start a Quad or even i7 on an X58 Mobo.

Only run original stuff on your RIG....always use protection....viruses kill...

She'll run like a Crystal Ball!!!

Disable your Speedstep in Bios, Crank up the FSB and push up your fire(Voltages) to all your componenents, even RAM & Bridges with a serious effort on the cooling and watch your System Rock.

If you see smoke come out your chassis, start again, but replace hardware first.(seriously - do some research before tweaking BIOS specs)

"Overclock.net" is the site....

Happy overclocking

Francois

I am in agreement with a few of your statements, but not with others.

I agree that pirating (be it software or bike parts) should never be considered. There is enough OS software in the market that is comparable to the propriety software offered to appease any person on a very tight budget or for the person who does not want to spend a cent. Whilst I do find much of the propriety software over-priced, they can only charge what the market is willing to pay. The more people who move away from PS, the sooner one will see their licensing drop.

In regards purchasing of hardware, I hardly think it is advisable to recommend forking out huge sums of money for a system based on the i7 CPU and X58 factor Mobo and ddr3 ram. There is so little software that is capable of using the potential power of such a set-up and add to that the current inflated pricing of such, it really does not make sense from a value for money perspective, The other area where Intel dropped the ball was the i7 not being backward upgrade compatible unlike the Phenom II which can still make use of DDR2 and the AM seried boards.

At present the E series CPU is in all probability the most cost effective upgrade solution for most end-users based on its over-clocking abilities (mobo dependent of course). Bear in mind that 80% of components are sold to endusers who do not need hugely powerful machines and who have no idea what OC'ing is.

I personally would go with the Q6600 (which you yourself have) as it can reside on most standard mobo's and is a very capable CPU. Well priced and benefits will be reaped when more software companies release their QC specified volumes.

Francois, what you've got there is a Big Gun when lots of people are just trying to kill ants.

That said, I've got a notion Vista's bad rep (if we ignore the original processor chip issue) comes from the OEM Vista Home installed on so many off-the-shelf machines. When it comes to getting it to behave well on a peer-to-peer network, it's just not funny.

Then there is the "standard apps" issue. My favourite one: That Vista email program is the pits. More bugs there than in a sceptic tank.

Vista was a disaster, especially on the OEM machines. The number of downgrades I performed for clients to XP are too numerous to mention, but suffice to say that the Vista entry level product is rubbish.

Having said that the Business and Ultimate versions are very capable OS's, but do require a little tweaking to get it to run smoothly, but then that is why companies like us are in business as we can smooth the transition

It looks like Windoze 7 is going to be a good replacement, but we all know how wrong things can go from RC and Beta versions of software. Must admit have found a few glitches, but it has a lot of improvements over Vista.

I still believe taht the way forward is Linux based systems, but the cross compatibility issues in terms of software is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved. I cannot for the life of me understand why the PS developers have not started writing the code for their software to run on Linux based systems, but that is another discussion entirely.

This thread seems to have been derailed slightly

[Loman]

BonaFide, i'm glad you agree that Francois' rig is a bit overkill. On the other hand, if i had money to burn, why not?

But since i don't i better stop my daydreaming.

[BonaFide]

BonaFide, i'm glad you agree that Francois' rig is a bit overkill. On the other hand, if i had money to burn, why not?

But since i don't i better stop my daydreaming.

I suppose we are all different. I am a technophobe, but must admit that I will not pay inflated prices for hardware just to have the newest of the new, especially when there are more cost effective ways to get to similarly powerful systems - call me a penny pincher

[twinscythe12332]

oh well, might as well get into this.

dual core vs quad core, quad core is going to give horns, and in my opinion is a better investment over time due to its ability to keep up with the times (ie when we're running around with 128 -bit and so on...).so I agree and disagree with it not being used.

naturally with all new tech advancements they are going to expect ludicrous amounts of your hard earned money. so right now Intel is smiling with open hands saying "you want I7, you fork out for it." Personally I'll wait till the prices and the next set of chips come out (Intel have been quoted that the name "i7" will make sense once the next chipset comes out). still, having the threading (8 threads for the four cores vs your average quad core's 4 for four) that it offers is rather tasty.

I haven't touched vista home, but I run vista ultimate 32-bit. I have had quite a few bombings out (normally in the same place in fallout3), and so have my friends using XP, so that sounds more like a problem in the game, not the "huh? it worked on XP but not vista" crap (ie what I'm saying is it has been pretty solid).

as for overclocking, debatable topic. it helps in graphics, I've seen a good reaction in changing the CAS latency in my ram, as for the CPU, leave it alone. haven't tried AMD but my Intel screams "I hate you" louder than a tickle me emo doll.

I do play a fair few games, but as for the internet connection comment, I'll take it you consider gamer to equal online gamer. I've played a bit of warcraft 3 online, and considering "hax" *player has exited the game* is the most common approach when losing, I'll stick to lanning. at least then when someone acts like a little b*tch, we can all laugh at him in person.

[Loman]

I'll stick to lanning. at least then when someone acts like a little b*tch, we can all laugh at him in person.

And if he's a cheater he should have darn fast legs too.

[Loman]

Is it possible to connect two switches together so that more could join the lan?

I've got a SMC 8 port switch and at the moment there are 6 guys that want to join our monthly get together. would it work if i connect another SMC 8 port switch to the existing one or do i have to buy a bigger one?

The SMC 8 is only about R 160 while the 16 port is R 450.

[twinscythe12332]

yup yup. just get a crossover cable.

Reviewing other websites, I see if they both have uplinks you could also use a regular cable. so might as well try that as well. if I remember correctly my friend and I used a regular cable to get our 2 SMC gigabit switches chatting.

[Loman]

If this works i can get three 8 port switches with a total of 20 usable ports for +- the same price of the 16 port.

[twinscythe12332]

If this works i can get three 8 port switches with a total of 20 usable ports for +- the same price of the 16 port.

hmmm, that depends. if you're planning on going with 3x 100mbit 8 ports, I'd suggest going for the big boy. however, if you've got your eyes set on 1gbit switches, and your aim is gaming rather than sending files (I tend to be targeted at lans for my 700-odd GB of stuff), then 3 of those would be all good hooked up with a cable between each. 6 PCs going through a lone 100mbit cable is... well, it's sick and twisted.

[Dave A]

If this works...

It works alright. Better yet, the newer switches I've got hooked to our router automatically detects an uplink connection on port 1 if that is how the switch has been deployed. Don't even need the crossover cable.

On my older switches and hubs that had an uplink channel option, the uplink setting had to be made manually.

6 PCs going through a lone 100mbit cable is... well, it's sick and twisted.

At the end of the day all the machines in the game are connecting to the game host machine through one cable/port no matter how you spin it, surely.

[Loman]

Thanx. I've ordered one.

[Frankincense]

Loman, "XP beats Vista especially hard when it comes to gaming."...I would like to agree and disagree. Reason is, if you have the correct hardware(say a little Q6600 stock) and sufficient Ram and Vista 64Bit...it beats XP as your games runs 100% OK...and has a better feel to it being on a newer OS...granted it uses more resources... So it's a matter of perception

"Its a well known fact that gamers "don't" use XP if only because of the drop in performance."
That statement woulda been true about a year or more ago, but now gamers are grabbing Q66's and other newer goodies in keeping up with the applications being released

"In fact you are the first gamer i know of who prefer to use Vista."
Pleased to meet you. We are many and growing by the second!!!

"....since the only software currently making full use of four or more cores is photoshop software."
I so have to disagree with you. Almost every single application I use utelises all 4 cores(maybe i just have a current mobo that arranges the distribution...who knows. Absolutely fantastic having 4 cores utelised by most (all) it seems software. Whether DVD/Multimedia, Games,... hell, even in idle state each core is twitching...

I'd definitely have to agree with Twinscythe, quad cores are more durable and a wiser investment.

Twinscythe, "...as for the CPU, leave it alone."

I've had so much fun tweaking the GHz on the Q66, I would so encourage Loman to have a ball playing with her....agreed he must just watch for cooking her, but the VMax is way towards 90Celcius, and can easily be OC'ed on a stock Intel fan should he desire a ride into the unknown...

I'd suggest the Q66 @ 2.4 GHz(They're about R2600) and if it slows down when running Crysis and other heavier applications, just open your FSB and Votage to get a decent 10% overclock if you feel to go 2.64 GHZ...then nothing will stand in your way..these are overclockable till 4GHZ+ (Stable)...if you're extreme...Yeah, consider as TwinScythe mentioned, adjust the timing setting lower on your RAM too...the 2 (RAM & CPU) work kinda hand in hand....just depends where on your rig you have bottlenecks..if you do.(let's ignore the Power supply/N,S-Bridge& RAM voltages)
Windows Vista index performer will tell you exactely which components of your pc are having the lowest base score (I dont think XP even has a Perfomance Indexer?)

spunkybob123
Posted Apr 7, 2008 2:49 am PT

Honestly... working in a computer shop as a tech and hearing alot of peoples opinons, the only people that complain about vista are the people who have computers that cant run it well.

My computer is not cutting edge except for my vid card (AMD X2 4600, 3GB DDR2, 8800GTX OC) and vista is awesome. So far i have only had 1 game not work and thats coz of starforce protection, might work with SP1 but i stopped caring. Im still getting 100+ FPS in games like HL2 and Dirt. DX10 is nice but crysis is boring as hell so i dont play it, Hellgate london looks pritty but i still run in DX9 mode coz its faster.

I still rekon all SP1 did was add 80ish + mb of windows protection to stop people using OEM exploits and stuff.(That's your temptation to pirate Loman)

From:

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6188289/index.html

There are many of us who love Vista!!!..it's definitley a hardware issue

"Perhaps if you use XP as an OS instead of Vista you won't even need to overclock. By the way, on a system such as yours you don't need to overclock in the first place. You'll barely see a performance gain when playing games and stressing your components unnecessarily."
True, but it's not out of neccessity.... and the difference is noticable...especially on OC'ing my CPU frequency as stock speed's @ 2.4...but I prefer running her around 2.7...but the thing is, OC'ing is more fun as a science than a neccessity...kinda like chipping your cab and branching the manifolds, or popping a turbo on a Huyabusa...if 330Km/h isn't enough...let's do 420Km/h...with all the tunnel vision, who can tell the difference?.....true?...we are all different...and I love stressing things for pleasure.

Linux, well, is for business, but Gamers will naturally remain on Microsoft..unless Linux enters the gaming market and overtakes it due to gaming compatibility issues on Linux....(An aquantance of mine hosts a Gigabyte 100 member Lan Party in halls around KZN and he agrees : Linux..not for gaming at this stage)

Oh well....trust you will decide wisely on your rig's components...as that will decide how happy you are with your software...not the other way round... and lastly, availability of cash will decide both of those....it's all good.