Electrical Gas Stove connection and certificate

[Leecatt]

I had a call from someone today who says he has been requested by his insurance company to provide an electrical certificate for the installation of his gas stove which has an electrical powered oven.
He has already got the Gas certificate
My first reaction was that this was a job for a Master Installation Electrician.
My second thought was that we do not issue COC's for appliances.
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Any thoughts?

[Just Gone]

Yep - just had a gas hob and electic stove fitted - got the certificate for my insurance company.

[ians]

Last i checked it is a 3 day course. Some good money in issuing these certificates for gas installations.

[AndyD]

My second thought was that we do not issue COC's for appliances.
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
Any thoughts?

We have a very official looking 'Electrical Safety Certificate' that we've used several times in the past especially for appliances and commercial machines that the usual CoC can't be used for. Obviously it's not the DoL OHSA Act 85 1993 CoC and this is stated on the certificate but it is a full test report complete with test results which we happily perform for insurance companies who insist on having things that don't exist in their requirements.

[ians]

Andy, in the UK they have an appliance test certificate.

http://www.pat-testing.info/

[Just Gone]

ians that is not surprising ........ in the UK you would need a "certificate" for fricken everything !! .......lol

[AndyD]

Andy, in the UK they have an appliance test certificate.

http://www.pat-testing.info/

Yep, our 'Safety Certificate' is suspiciously similar in content to the UK portable appliance testing, the main difference is that we don't offer to test every appliance in the place for 50 pence per item.

I think portable appliance testing has got merit when it comes to improving safety but it's the kind of thing that's open to abuse. We have a couple of clients who we perform an annual PAT schedule for but they're both non-SA companies. PAT testing hasn't exactly been embraced by the locals.

[ACEsterhuizen]

Can someone assist please, when would you need a "gas compliance certificate" for a gas appliance. Would you need one for your braai, or your portable heater (from game), or your hob if the bottle does not connect to a manifold, these umbrella type patio heaters, etc. I have conflicting opinions about this issue.

This is how I have it so far:

SANS 10087:-1 PAGE 27:

(Legal definition of a gas INSTALLATION)

3.11 installation

combination of one or more containers connected to a manifold system, including pipework and appliances.

......

(Legal definition of a MANIFOLD)

3.13 manifold

where two or more containers are connected to each side of the changeover device.

.........

5.2.2.7 Containers inside a building shall not be manifolded.

WHEN A MANIFOLD SHALL BE USED:

5.2.3.8 Where more than two containers are used in an installation, the containers shall be
connected into a manifold system. A changeover device connected to one container on each side
shall not be deemed to be a manifold, however, the safety distances shall still apply.

...........

(Legal definition of WHEN and WHAT gas SHALL BE INSPECTED AND ISSUED WITH A CERTIFICATE OF COMPLIANCE)

8.1.1 General

On completion, and before commissioning, the installation shall be inspected, tested and approved by the registered installer, and the user shall be issued with a certificate of compliance that indicates that the installation has been tested and that it complies with this part of SANS 10087.

......

8.2 Instructions to users
8.2.1 On completion of the installation, the registered installer shall provide a certificate of
compliance to the user.

..........

A call to Afrox Head Office also confirmed that only an "installation" as defined must have a CoC. He also mentioned that stoves connected to a bottle under the stove or adjacent to it is not an "installation" but that there is certain restrictions and references that might be recommended.

[AndyD]

I'm not a gas expert but portable heaters, braais and umbrella type heaters that have a single 9kg bottle held internally don't require any 'installation' as such and don't require a cert.

A stove or hob with an external bottle (not contained within the appliance) on the other hand is more contentious and I'd always advise that they're certified because there are certain rules and regs governing exactly where the bottle can and can't be located .....although I'm led to believe that in some circumstances they may not legally require it.

This is just my take on things from speaking to people in the industry but I'd wait for someone with more authority in this area to confirm if I were you.

[Dave A]

I'm not a gas expert but portable heaters, braais and umbrella type heaters that have a single 9kg bottle held internally don't require any 'installation' as such and don't require a cert.

Andy is kinda on the right track. One has to differentiate between fixed appliances (i.e. attached to the building) and portable, free-standing equipment. Portable equipment doesn't require "installation", so it doesn't require the services of an "authorised person".

What drives this is sections 17.(1)(c), 17.(2) and 17.(3) of the Pressure Equipment Regulations (No. R. 734 of 2009). (I've attached a copy to this post).

17. (1) No person shall -

a) handle, store or distribute any gas in any manner. which includes the filling of a container, other than in accordance with the relevant health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations under section 44 of the Act;
(b) install or remove an appliance, pressure equipment or system for gas in any manner other than in accordance with the relevant safety standard incorporated into these Regulations under section 44 of the Act;
(c) install or remove a gas appliance, or a gas system or a gas reticulation system, unless such person is an authorised person; or
(d) use pressure equipment or systems for gas in any manner other than in accordance with the relevant safety standard incorporated into these Regulations under section 44 of the Act.

(2) After installation or re-installation. and before commissioning a gas system. the user shall ensure that an external inspection and a leak test are performed by an authorised person or an approved inspection authority as applicable in terms of subregulation (1 )(c).

(3) An authorised person or an approved inspection authority shall issue a certificate of conformity after completion of a gas installation. modification. alteration or change of user or ownership in the form of Annexure 1.

[SilverNodashi]

Does anyone know what the view from insurance is, if a stove is fitted with a 9Kg gas bottle, and as such won't have a COC, but then causes a house fire?