[Question] Who is responsible for COC

[Martinco]

Who is responsible for obtaining a COC ? The owner of the building or the tenant ?

According to the owner, the insurance company, for purposes of insuring the building, needs a COC.
The last COC was done +- 3 years ago and no alterations/additions were made. Is this COC still good ?

Thanks

[Dave A]

Essentially in terms of legislation both the user and owner are responsible (some fine print applies).

A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no change to the electrical installation and for a maximum of 2 years.

If the lease agreement is silent on who is responsible for electrical COC's - just who is going to have to foot the bill for a new one now is going to be very situation dependant.

[Sparks]

Who is responsible for the roadworthiness of a rented car?

The same law appiles.

How can you rent something out without knowing it is safe to be used? If you are prepared to take the risk you must be prepared to be held accountable.

How can you rent a place without 1st asking to see the COC. If you are prepared to take the risk...

A COC is valid for 1 year irrespective of whether changes have been made or not.

A tenant has the right to ask for a COC unless the contract specifically passes the responsibillity to him/her.

Which tenant in their right mind would sign a contract like that?

If there is no COC the supplier has the right to disconnect the power at a fee and on presentation of a valid COC reconnect once again at a fee..

[Dave A]

A COC is valid for 1 year irrespective of whether changes have been made or not.

I invite you to think about the consequences of that statement and reconsider your position.

A tenant has the right to ask for a COC unless the contract specifically passes the responsibillity to him/her.

Which tenant in their right mind would sign a contract like that?

Actually it's pretty common practice on commercial and industrial leases where it's not at all unusual for the tenant to make wholesale changes to the electrical installation when they move in.

[Sparks]

, typing not up to spec 2yrs is right. As for the alterations, well they get certified when done which covers them. The COC is for the installation described in Section 3 only.
As for tenants changing the installation, here they need permission first and are then liable for certification of the changes but not the original installation.

[ians]

I must be reading something incorrectly, A COC is valid as long as the owner, owns the building, if alterations or extentions are done then a COC for that portion would be issued and kept with the exsisting COC.

However as soon as the "owner" sells the building, a new COC would be required if the previous COC or older than 2 years.

The tenant is not required to obtain a COC unless he has electrical work done on the property. The COC which is 3 years old is still valid unless there is a change of ownership.

This is how i understand it, however it could have changed since the last time i read the SANS book, in fact i was involved in a building sale where the seller decided not to get a COC, instead made a clause in the sale agreement which left it up to the purchaser to get a COC as there going to be a lot of alterations done, on more than one occassion.

[houtkop]

Jy kan die gebou koop sonder coc as jy kan bewys dat die gebou gaan gesloop word of soos ians sê baie veranderinge aam gebring gaan word. Daar is geen sin daarin om `n coc uit te reik vir gebou wat verander gaan word nie

[Dave A]

I suppose we'd better get this spot on, then.

From Reg 242 of 2009 - Electrical installation regulations:

Responsibility for electrical installations
2. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), the user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety, safe use and maintenance of the electrical installation he or she uses or leases.

(2) The user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control.

(3) Where there is a written undertaking between a user or lessor and a lessee whereby the responsibility for an electrical installation has been transferred to the lessee, the lessee shall be responsible for that installation as if he or she were the user or lessor.

Certificate of compliance
7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.
(2)
Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall on request produce the certificate of compliance for that electrical installation to an inspector, a supplier or, subject to regulation 4(1), an approved inspection authority for electrical installations.
(3)
Subregulation (1) shall not apply to an electrical installation that existed prior to 23 October 1992, and where there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994: Provided that, if any addition or alteration is effected to such an electrical installation, the user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall obtain a certificate of compliance for the whole electrical installation, whereafter the provisions of subregulation (1) shall be applicable to such electrical installation.
(4)
Where any addition or alteration has been effected to an electrical installation for which a certificate of compliance was previously issued, the user or lessor of such electrical installation shall obtain a certificate of compliance for at least the addition or alteration.
(5)
Subject to the provisions of section 10(4) of the Act, the user or lessor may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years.
(6)
The relevant supplier may at any reasonable time inspect or test any electrical installation: Provided that the supplier shall not charge any fee for such an inspection or test unless the inspection or test is carried out at the request of the user or lessor.
(7)
If an inspector, an approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier has carried out an inspection or test and has detected any fault or defect in any electrical installation, that inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier may require the user or lessor of that electrical installation to obtain a new certificate of compliance: Provided that if such fault or defect in the opinion of the inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier constitutes an immediate danger to persons, that inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier shall forthwith take steps to have the supply to the circuit in which the fault or defect was detected, disconnected:
Provided further that where such fault or defect is of such a nature that it may indicate negligence on the part of a registered person, the inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier shall forthwith report those circumstances in writing to the chief inspector.

[julies]

Sorry to bring up an old thread.. I have a few questions on CoC

1) With regards to the CoC, If a house was purchased and a COC issued when sold, and a few days later or few weeks or even month later the buyer finds out there is an electrical problem that should have been picked up when the CoC was done (thus the coc should not have been issued) , how would you handle this situation, does the buyer have any recourse, can the buyer claim damages from the electrician or previous owner. Does they buyer report the electrician.

2) Can a COC be issued if the Main bedroom wall plugs are connected to the same CB as the geyser, shouldn't it have Earth Leakage Protection. Even if it has got Earth Leakage protection, can wall plug be connected to same CB as geyser

3) Can a COC be issued if there is a power cable running from the main building underground to a DB of a granny flat, with said cable just be buried under the ground with no other protection around the cable, what if the Gardner is digging.

4) Can a COC be issued if one bedroom as no light fitting for the main light, just open wires hanging

[Dave A]

2) Can a COC be issued if the Main bedroom wall plugs are connected to the same CB as the geyser, shouldn't it have Earth Leakage Protection. Even if it has got Earth Leakage protection, can wall plug be connected to same CB as geyser

What is the rating of the CB?
Does the geyser have an isolator?

3) Can a COC be issued if there is a power cable running from the main building underground to a DB of a granny flat, with said cable just be buried under the ground with no other protection around the cable, what if the Gardner is digging.

What type of cable?
How deep is it buried?
How did you check the depth of the cable?

4) Can a COC be issued if one bedroom as no light fitting for the main light, just open wires hanging

Was there a fitting there when the electrician tested the property/issued a COC?

[gobbleteller]

A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no change to the electrical installation and for a maximum of 2 years.

Dave, are you saying that a CoC is only valid for two years? The reason I ask is that your statement doesn't make sense...A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no changes to the electrical installation... and for a maximum of two years...

Martinco's question was if the COC would still be valid after three years if no alterations had been made. The electrical installation isn't being sold, the insurance merely needs a valid CoC for insurance purposes. It should be easy to answer it with a yes or no.

"5) Subject to the provisions of section 10(4) of the Act, the user or lessor may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years."

I'm no English teacher but this statement doesn't say that the CoC is only valid for two years, it merely states that a change of ownership cannot occur if the electrical installation's CoC is older than two years.

[julies]

CB rating is
I dont see an isolator for geyser
I am not sure what type of cable it is
Not burried very deep in my opinion, I asked the gardener to do the flower beds and remove a small tree, he nearly cut the cable. Well he hit the cable in diffrent places
I am not sure if the fitting was there when a COC was done/issued. The estate agent said he has already got the COC but when i went to look at the house i saw all these issues, so I was wondering how the COC has already been issued with all these concerns.

We are still busy with the property transfer at the attorneys

[AndyD]

The circuits may or may not be compliant, it's difficult to say without more accurate details. A geyser does require an isolater switch at the cylinder itself. If the garden flat cable is SWA it's probably compliant, if it isn't there a good chance it's not compliant. There's nothing to stop you getting another electrician to test the installation if you've got doubts.

[Dave A]

Dave, are you saying that a CoC is only valid for two years?

No - I'm saying that in terms of the law it may only be deemed valid for a maximum of two years.

The reason I ask is that your statement doesn't make sense...A COC may be deemed valid for as long as there is no changes to the electrical installation... and for a maximum of two years...

Martinco's question was if the COC would still be valid after three years if no alterations had been made. The electrical installation isn't being sold, the insurance merely needs a valid CoC for insurance purposes. It should be easy to answer it with a yes or no.

The legal position is clear. The answer is no.

To try to remove your confusion -

Here's one of the core problems in play - there can be a change to the electrical installation at any time, even within hours!!
For example, the earth leakage unit goes faulty (it happens).
An earth connection is lost (it happens).
It rains, there's moisture ingress into the installation somewhere, and suddenly the insulation impedance reading plummets.

I suggest the way to look at it is there are two "clocks" ticking.
One is time.
The second is events (which could be overt and known, or covert and unnoticed).
Either one trips, and the COC is no longer legally valid.

[DieterT]

The first question should be "Why do we require a CoC?"
Once you understand the reason for a CoC alot of reasoning around the "lifetime" of a CoC would be understood and what kind of tests would be required for what type of installation.

The life time of a CoC does not expire after 2years nor 5years nor 10years. Seems like this time period changes every year or so...

A CoC is valid for what it has been issued for i.e. should you install a circuit from the DB board feeding 2 plugpoints with a 16A circuit breaker, you will issue a CoC from the supply to the point of consumption on all 4 points. Design, Material & Procurement, Construction and Test & Inspection.

Now BoB comes and installs 2 additional plug points after your installation. Now he has to issue a CoC for those 2 new points, thus from supply to point of consumption he will issue a CoC only for the 2 new points, but will include test results he carries out on the circuit you installed and on his CoC he will only cover the design,construction,material and procurement of his 2 new plugs and their piece of cable fed from your plug circuit, but the Test & Inspection of the whole circuit from point of supply to point of consumption.

Now, this is debatable I understand, but remember if you carry out your tests correctly and done a visual inspection correctly any defects and abnormalities would be picked up on the original installation. Also there is a section 3 on CoC where BoB would clearly indicate his responsibilities of his work and materials used and that what is not covered by his test report.

Therefor, never get rid of a old CoC. Every CoC is valid for what it has been issued for. From the construction of the premesis with all of its renovations and changes up to the point where it is made safe and disconnected (yes you give a CoC for that also) Demolished and rebuilt and a brand spanking new CoC is issued. Even then you still keep all the original CoCs as the one to be issued once the premesis is rebuilt will be deemed as a supplimentary CoC.

The "lifetime" is only a "guideline" for selling and transfering of property from one owner to the next. Not for reason to make money, but for reason to make sure it complies and is safe for use. Also not to check up on previous electricians (as they where supposed to have done everything correctly) but more to make sure that there has been no modifications made to the transformer feeding the premesis (tap changed) therefor testing the PSCC and making sure that there is still a earth/neutral on the transformer feeding the property (yes they tend to dissapear...) Loop Impedance.

Then obviously to make sure that all the tests are of desired results and visually everything complies. This being that only the Test & Inspection part of the CoC is to be completed for the transfer or selling of property (except if any modifications are made in order to have premesis comply for purpose of issuing a CoC)

I ask therefor not implying as I know the Occupational Health and Safety Act states all these words that can be manipulated to make any situation feasable, but at the end of the day being either the client or the electrician is going to stand in front of the judge having to explian death/injury or loss of property whould a civil case have been opened.

Procecuted by the government represented by the inspector with all his evidence, what is going to be your defence? A bunch of words in the OHSA or the physical tests that had been preformed and deligated responsibilities given through CoC signed be an registered electrician?

Even thou the OHSA states that the responsibility lays with the user and lessor of an installation remember that if you got an registered electrician to install and certify that installation then the responsibilty lays with him as the professional and not yourself, but should you the user or lessor of an installation have used some guy from the street and he did not have a liscence guess who is going to be procecuted in court? And guess what the insurance company would say should they request the certificate and electrician's credentials?

Apart from caring about safety, someone needs to be blamed...