FINDING A REGISTED CONTRACTOR

[FEDUP]

Hello
Can someone please recommend a registered contractor in the Secunda area. We have had 3 different local companies in to do various work in our house and not one of them has been able to do the work in one appointment. They are out at least two or three times to rectify stupid mistakes they make and none of them have issued a COC even after repeated requests. Anyway we are at the point now where we feel we should get all the house checked over since we don't feel very confident
of their abilities. We have looked online and the ESA list two companies but when I put their number in the ECB register they come up blank , so I'm at a loss about how to find someone since I can't find contractors on the DoL website either.
In the event someone can suggest a company how much can we expect to pay for the inspection and issue of the COC. I understand any work to be rectified would be extra.

Thanks in advance
Fedup

[Dave A]

If they're listed on the ECA website, they should be properly registered contractors.

The ECB website might not have all registered contractors on their database anymore (a problem that is probably only going to get worse over time).
The DoL hasn't provided an online facility that allows one to check if a contractor is properly registered - and at this time there is no sign that this will change anytime soon.

Don't know what else to say other than "good luck - hope it goes better next time around"

[AndyD]

I can see there's going to be more and more people in your predicament, as far as I know at the moment there is no accurate and conclusive list of registered and legal electrical contractors. I would advise two things, firstly make it clear to any contractor you phone that you expect them to provide a Certificate of Compliance at least for the alterations and additions they're about to do and they're not going to get paid until the work is complete and the cert is in your hand. Secondly speak to your local electrical wholesalers and see if you can get them to recommend a licensed and reliable contractor.
I'm loathed to wish you good luck because luck shouldn't be playing a part in finding a contractor but I fear you're going to need some anyway so good luck.

[Sparks]

I might also suggest that you ask to see the registation certificate and accreditation certificate of whoever comes to do the work. The Registration Certificate is issued by the dept. of labour and proves the contractor to be registered as a contractor. The accreditation certificate is a drivers license type ID card also issued by DOL to show that you have a suitably qualified person on your premises to do the work, not just an assistant sparky from one of our northern neighbours. It is a legal requirement that whoever works on the installation have an accreditation cetificate or be working under the direct supervision of someone who does have one so he must still be on the premises.

[Dave A]

It is a legal requirement that whoever works on the installation have an accreditation cetificate or be working under the direct supervision of someone who does have one so he must still be on the premises.

Last time I checked, the regs didn't state direct or on-site supervision. In fact if I recall correctly the phrase used was general supervision.

Has this changed?

[Sparks]

I guess while I do not recall the exact wording, it would still be stretching it a bit far to be under a person's supervision if they not "on site". I could very well be "general" supervision in the regs, but I still would not accept an invisible supervisor.

[Dave A]

Just checked and it gets worse. The phrase is "general control", which implies a less direct level than "supervision" - arguably closer to management than supervision.

S5.4 of Notice No. R. 242, 6 March 2009 made under the Occupational Health and Safety Act, 1993, a.k.a the ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION REGULATIONS:

A registered person shall exercise general control over all electrical installation work being carried out, and no person may allow such work without such control.

Obviously the registered person remains responsible for the actions of those persons under his/her general control.

[Pieter00]

Just remember you can't get a coc for the alteration if the rest of the installation doesn't comply.

[Leecatt]

Just remember you can't get a coc for the alteration if the rest of the installation doesn't comply.

Quite correct Pieter and there is only one way to know that, a full site inspection.
I can ascertain from this that once you are satisfied that the site does comply, then you also take responsibility for the first certificate as soon as you issue the second one.

[Pieter00]

That's right, its good to put this part of the OHS act in your quote to cover your self cause the normal guy wants a COC just for the alteration which is fine but you can't give them one if there's no CoC for the existing installation or if the existing doesn't comply

[ians]

Quite correct Pieter and there is only one way to know that, a full site inspection.
I can ascertain from this that once you are satisfied that the site does comply, then you also take responsibility for the first certificate as soon as you issue the second one.

I would like to hear of a site where this has been applied.

So if you install 1 plug socket you take responsibility for the entire site? I believe all electrical alterations and additions would come to a stand still if this rule was enforced correctly.

[Dave A]

There are certainly some interesting gaps between intention, interpretation, application and enforcement being demonstrated in this discussion

This could easily turn into an epic.

Hopefully we'll come to some useful conclusions along the way.

[Pieter00]

I have done this a couple of times especially with homes I issued a coc for that it can be sold and then the new owners calls be to remove some bowl fittings or 12v downlights and put a nicer light or 220v downlighter, when doing this remember the 12v fitting and 220v fiting is different so don't put a 220v downlight globe and holder in a 12v downlighter due to manufacturer standards. And then I just do a coc for the alterations as required by law and give it to the customer. Fellow electricians, we studied hard and worked hard for our licenses and if we stand together and stop being cheaper then a plumber here in dbn it would be to all our benefit.

[Leecatt]

I have done this a couple of times especially with homes I issued a coc for that it can be sold and then the new owners calls be to remove some bowl fittings or 12v downlights and put a nicer light or 220v downlighter, when doing this remember the 12v fitting and 220v fiting is different so don't put a 220v downlight globe and holder in a 12v downlighter due to manufacturer standards. And then I just do a coc for the alterations as required by law and give it to the customer. Fellow electricians, we studied hard and worked hard for our licenses and if we stand together and stop being cheaper then a plumber here in dbn it would be to all our benefit.

Quite right. If one remembers some basic rules when choosing and installing 220 volt downlights .
The entire fitting must be earthed
The entire fitting must be mechanically secure and can only be dismantled using a tool and must be used as originally intended by the manufacturer.
There must be no possibility of strain on the connections.
The cable must be secured on the sheathing and not the individual wires.
The connection box on the fitting is just that and not a LOOPING BOX.
In other words a 12v fitting should not be modified to accept a 220v globe.