Din rail breakers fake or not

[Pieter00]

Is there any opinion regarding LS din rail circuit breakers from voltex, they have the orange toggle. I was called for wires that was melting and when I got there it was a couple and melted before it enters the conduit, this is probably due to over current, I don't know what else could cause it and the breakers never tripped. Are there fake LS din rail breakers out there and how would they be recognised as these were bought from an electrical wholeseller?

[Justloadit]

At the time you were called out, or during the fault, did you measure the current?

[Pieter00]

No, the owner got someone else to fix cause I'm out of town. I can only think that the main switch at the meter could be faulty and / the din rail breakers, I've foun CBI breakers that was a fake cause someone got shocked and it never triped out. The date on the back of the breaker was stamped with a mashine and not a hand stamp. That's the sighn of a fake CBI breaker but I don't know what the sighn is with these ones.

[AndyD]

One of the easiest ways to spot a fake is familiarity with the product. I've spotted fakes in the past by the different feel of the breaker when you operate the toggle, also the different weight and the way it flexed when the terminals were tightened. I don't use LS breakers so I can't give specific advice but almost every manufacturer nowadays has info about how to spot fakes on their website and to be honest if the manufacturer doesn't have a website then I'd avoid them like the plague.

With overheating damage to the insulation it's normally easily spottable if it was caused by a poor termination on the breaker. If the damage occurred on the wire away from the breaker where it enters the conduit then maybe the wire was stretched or otherwise damaged as it was installed.

Unfortunately it's not easy to test the calibration of MCB's, you need a current injection set and the appropriate instrumentation to plot the disconnection time curve and this equipment isn't generally available so if they look good, feel good and smell good you've just got to assume they're going to operate. This is a leap of faith I usually reserve for recognised brand names only.

[ians]

I don't think an LS circuit breaker has to be a fake, the cheap crap they are selling could just as well be fake the quality is such rubbish.

CBI earth leakage unit being sold must be fake because they don't last longer than 2 years, I have some installation where the CBI earth leakage unit is still working after 20 years, I replace one of the old E/L after 20 years and the new one is replace db before the other old ones are replaced in the same panel.

I don't use them (AC/DC)but I have heard from other contractors complaining at the wholesalers, that the AC/DC earth leakage unit is the worse at the moment and it seems CBI comes a close second. I stopped using CBI and now replace with chint, haven't had any problem to date.

By the way a circuit breaker is not a human protective device and will not trip if you are shocked unless you create a dead short or the current exceeds the current rating of the breaker, which will result in a death if more than a couple of mA.

It sounds to me like there was a loose connection which could have caused intermittent tripping which they didn't inform you about, or the circuit breaker was incorrectly selected which resulted in the wire melting form overloading.

A question, you mentioned that a couple of wires melted before they entered the conduit, where these circuits all fed from the same circuit breaker or are you referring to an earth leakage unit? If there are multiple circuit burning then I would suggest you do an investigation into the cause, soon.

[Leecatt]

I don't use them (AC/DC)but I have heard from other contractors complaining at the wholesalers, that the AC/DC earth leakage unit is the worse at the moment and it seems CBI comes a close second. I stopped using CBI and now replace with chint, haven't had any problem to date.

I also had problems with AC/DC Earth Leakages. It takes so long to shop there, you'd imagine you would at least receive a product that works at the end of the wait

[skatingsparks]

I also had problems with AC/DC Earth Leakages. It takes so long to shop there, you'd imagine you would at least receive a product that works at the end of the wait

ACDC - gave up on them. 9 times out of ten I would wait longer for the product that n the actual job would take. Besides, nearly everything I got from them crapped out - light fittings, LED's. If you try and change it wait another 2 or 3 hours.

[Pieter00]

I bought remote control downlighters from AC/DC. And installed it for a client, they didn't go white but yellow green and blue. And the remote control is crap for R320 each. I returned it and waited 4 months for feedback and was told there's nothing rong with it. The whole saler amanzimtoti still has my money and AC/DC the downlighters. Stay away from these lights guys

[bergie]

there motor control parts are also crap. a direct copy of tele i think. the overload doesnt always fit properly into the contactor.
even the flameproof parts "warom" they sell is cheap chinese crap.no certification.a copy of ceag. i worked on one where 2 of the 4 terminal screws snapped off with light pressure.

[tec0]

It doesn't have to be fake, I remember a cranky foreman using glue and a broomstick to glue the breaker so that it couldn't trip. Eventually when someone tried to switched it off they noticed that it was stuck and on fire... The foreman cared more about production then safety. So I would check the cable then the current that it can use and then see what current is running trough it. Secondly I would test the switch and see if it functions.

As for a fake switch... Yea spotting one without an actual test I would imagine can be tricky...

[ians]

The only time you want to buy AC/DC products is when you have a government contract for example where you get paid per breakdown, you will have lots and make lots of money.

[AndyD]

It doesn't have to be fake, I remember a cranky foreman using glue and a broomstick to glue the breaker so that it couldn't trip. Eventually when someone tried to switched it off they noticed that it was stuck and on fire... The foreman cared more about production then safety.

If you glue or tape a circuit breaker in the on position it will still trip if there's a fault. The tripping mechanism operates regardless of the lever on the front.

So I would check the cable then the current that it can use and then see what current is running trough it. Secondly I would test the switch and see if it functions.

As for a fake switch... Yea spotting one without an actual test I would imagine can be tricky...

Testing circuit breakers is something you'd need to set up for specially. A current injection unit will cost maybe R20-30K so it's outside the realms for most sparkies. It's surprisingly easy to spot >90% of fakes just by look and feel if you're familiar with the original products.

[tec0]

If you glue or tape a circuit breaker in the on position it will still trip if there's a fault. The tripping mechanism operates regardless of the lever on the front.

I saw that the other day... It will trip regardless... Do this experiment buy a cheap pair of metal scissors and a product called Q-bond. Drip a bit a few drops on the blade and close it. Leave it... Next day see if you can open and close the scissor.

Truth is if you get enough of that glue in the switch it will not function.

[AndyD]

Yeah look if you're talking about pumping glue into the internals of the breaker then you could feasibly stop it isolating a circuit under fault conditions but if someone has achieved those kind of dizzy heights on the stupidity scale then you should be giving them a wide berth, they aren't likely to make it to a ripe old age and you probably don't want to be too close to them when it is their time to go.

[tec0]

Yeah look if you're talking about pumping glue into the internals of the breaker then you could feasibly stop it isolating a circuit under fault conditions but if someone has achieved those kind of dizzy heights on the stupidity scale then you should be giving them a wide berth, they aren't likely to make it to a ripe old age and you probably don't want to be too close to them when it is their time to go.

Look it took a while but eventually he got it right... See this one motor kept on tripping after an hour or so. So while it was "off" at the control "not the main" he would pump a few drops into the switch.

But I don’t think the new switches have this problem there are a lot less places for the glue to go.