Who's in Charge?

[ians]

And to make it worse the customer has to pay for the investigation, then pay for the repairs and then sue for his money, how many people would actually be that stupid to call the DOL or AIA and waste their money, it is cheaper just to get it fixed yourself.

The electrical industry requires a major revamp and the first person to go should be who ever is running the DOL. Enforcing the law and arresting responsible people and contractors for illegal installations would be a move in the right direction it would make people think twice before they rush out and drop some unskilled staff member on site to wire up an electrical installation, more responsible people would be monitoring the installations and the general rate would increase because the you would be quoting apples for apples and not apples for peanuts. I can tell you it would only take one or two R100K fines or 6 months in jail and the industry would turn in a matter of days. Electrical Contractors and all these illegal operators like gate, aircon, electric fence who carry out installations would be very nervous to take out a screwdriver and interfere with any electrical installation.

[ELECT 1]

And to make it worse the customer has to pay for the investigation, then pay for the repairs and then sue for his money, how many people would actually be that stupid to call the DOL or AIA and waste their money, it is cheaper just to get it fixed yourself.

The electrical industry requires a major revamp and the first person to go should be who ever is running the DOL. Enforcing the law and arresting responsible people and contractors for illegal installations would be a move in the right direction it would make people think twice before they rush out and drop some unskilled staff member on site to wire up an electrical installation, more responsible people would be monitoring the installations and the general rate would increase because the you would be quoting apples for apples and not apples for peanuts. I can tell you it would only take one or two R100K fines or 6 months in jail and the industry would turn in a matter of days. Electrical Contractors and all these illegal operators like gate, aircon, electric fence who carry out installations would be very nervous to take out a screwdriver and interfere with any electrical installation.

Ian ,
Good point and i agree with you.

But we have to make the COC easier and user friendly, and what i mean is, if you replace a plug, a coc is required, then make a more simplified form.

[Sparks]

Like I said previously, Re-instate the old onbudsmen. Let DOL appoint them as accredited AIA. Oops, AIA may not operate as electrical contractors! However, if they were put on retainer by DOL, they would not need to! They had the clout, give it back to them, they got results! Let them do the weeding out of these idiots with papers but no knowledge! The "onbudsman" of times gone by in Port Elizabeth was a worthy gentleman who had a damn good reputation among honest law-abiding contractors. I salute you Mr Rod Trower. I knew I could rely on you to take these bums, who have taken the industry down the drain, to book.
Following protocol gets you nowhere! I can prove it, anyone wants the proof they can request it from me. AIA report, DOL report, even email from the Senior Prosecutor stating that at that time he only had 1(one) case, the idiot then supplied the same number of the case which I queried stating that he had no knowledge of it despite it being his only case!

[ELECT 1]

Maybe the DOL are the wrong people to manage the electrical industry.
WE need a dedicated electrical body to control and supervise, some one that the contractor can go to as a friend and consult.
A body that can investigate, make decisive and instant non biased decisions and apply.
We have the ECA, but no teeth when it comes to dealing with this stuff.

[Yuri]

And to make it worse the customer has to pay for the investigation, then pay for the repairs and then sue for his money, how many people would actually be that stupid to call the DOL or AIA and waste their money, it is cheaper just to get it fixed yourself.

The electrical industry requires a major revamp and the first person to go should be who ever is running the DOL. Enforcing the law and arresting responsible people and contractors for illegal installations would be a move in the right direction it would make people think twice before they rush out and drop some unskilled staff member on site to wire up an electrical installation, more responsible people would be monitoring the installations and the general rate would increase because the you would be quoting apples for apples and not apples for peanuts. I can tell you it would only take one or two R100K fines or 6 months in jail and the industry would turn in a matter of days. Electrical Contractors and all these illegal operators like gate, aircon, electric fence who carry out installations would be very nervous to take out a screwdriver and interfere with any electrical installation.

Nico told me if he is called out by a privet person (almost always new home owners ) he inspects the installation and gives the contractor 14 days to fix it. If the contractor is not willing to do it he starts the steps to revoke the contracters wiremens licence

In all he's years as a AIA he has only started to revoke one persons wiremans licence
I have even seen his test tool bag he even puts tape in there. If a contractor has not taped a blue nutral wire black....

[ELECT 1]

Nico told me if he is called out by a privet person (almost always new home owners ) he inspects the installation and gives the contractor 14 days to fix it. If the contractor is not willing to do it he starts the steps to revoke the contracters wiremens licence

In all he's years as a AIA he has only started to revoke one persons wiremans licence
I have even seen his test tool bag he even puts tape in there. If a contractor has not taped a blue nutral wire black....

This is what is expected, give the electrician the time to put his" mistakes " right, if not he should be suspended for a long period.
Some are so blatant that you can see a blind person wouldnt have missed those errors.

[Sparks]

What is said and what is done are two very different things. For starters, the AIA do not have the authority to "give a contractor 14 days" to fix his mess. 2ndly the AIA have not been around for "years". I had the AIA Gauteng come and inspect a "certified" installation about 3 years ago, I will not waste my time getting the exact date, all the details are in a previous post. Said inspection was done by the AIA Gauteng as the installation is in Alberton. Absolutely NOTHING came of it. The AIA declared the installation as not compliant and the COC as not valid and void. This was also done by the DOL. The case was sent to the Senior prosecutor, it took him almost a year to realize that, by his own admission the " ONLY CASE" he had, was the case I queried. After pointing this out to him I never heard from him again! I ended up going to Alberton to do what was necessary to ensure that the installation met the required safety standards. What people expect from the AIA is what the onbudsmen delivered, the AIA cannot deliver it. I reiterate, REINSTATE the onbudsmen! AIA have no teeth and the DOL also mean sweet fanny blow-all. it is all just a matter of the government taking advantage of the contractors' registration fees.
I would LOVE to demonstrate to the Senior Prosecutor and all the DOL staff involved what the results of a lack of earthing can lead to. I will be willing to travel anywhere in the country at my own expense for the pleasure of proving this to any DOL official.
In case anyone does not understand, I will pay to shock the shit out of them!

Volta Electrical are still going ahead and issuing invalid COCs. The public are not aware that the "qualified, registered" electrical contractor is a fraud who abuses his wiremans licence for financial gain. They are also not aware that he does so with the blessing of the DOL!

Before anyone says that he does not have their blessing, please provide a valid reason for him still being allowed to do so despite their knowledge of his work.

Walk the walk before you talk. I have proof to validate everything I have said here. Don't try convince me and ignorant clients that he is a "reputable" contractor.

[Dave A]

If the ombudsman system was working so well, why was it stopped?

[ians]

That there is exactly where the problem begins, give the contractor the opportunity to fix his illegal installations. Like the case I had a while back with DEEs electrical in Durban. He did the installations a couple of years ago. The company replaced all the plugs in the house with 4x4 double socket outlets, they used PVC boxes and because there was no earth wire (because the piping was used for earth continuity) they just didn't install earth wires, creating an extremely dangerous installation. What they should have done is secure a lug with a pop rivet to the metal box with a 2.5 mm earth tail which should have been taken into the PVC 4x4 box and connected to the new double socket outlets, a loop impedance test to verify the earth was good enough and if not, new earth wires installed back to the DB

What should have happened is his license should have been suspended immediately, for negligence. Then he should have had to submit his job book with every project they have done in the past year,random checks by the DOL (well not the DOL, someone who has the qualifications to inspect) should have been carried out to verify that he is competent to issue COCs. If there where any other illegal COCs issued or he was found to be negligent on any other projects, his license should have been suspended until he had re written his installation rules then, have had to go through the same process as a new application to get his license back again.

By doing this people will think twice before dropping off a bunch of unskilled labourers to carry out electrical installations, which will also increase the rates people charge so it is a win win situation for all legal contractors issuing legal COCs. Chris Greager once said to me " but how would you like it if we did it to you", my reply if I am endangering other peoples lives by not performing my duties correctly then then they must do what must be done.

What people don't realise is by using unskilled people to work on electrical installations it not only creates a dangerous environment for the public but also creates a dangerous environment for other electrical contractors or companies working on the same site. I had a situation where I was asked to install and connect a supply for an aircon unit. Dolphin coast electrical where also working in the same building. When I pulled in the supply cable I had to remove the DB cover and keep it off for testing purposes including load tests which meant I have to reenergise, I connected my cable and when I switched on I noticed a couple other breakers also switched off, lucky for me I have enough experience to know not to just energise breakers which are switched off even if I might have bumped them off while removing the cover ( I also noticed the tape over the breaker before I removed the cover, common practise for unskilled people). I walked around the building to find some semi skilled (they had no form of identification or elconop cards so I didn't know how semi skilled) people connecting plugs in power skirting. When I enquired about how they had isolated the circuits they showed me that they had switched off the breaker and put a piece of insulation tape over the breaker to indicate it was isolated, the problem was that the cover with the tape was now on the floor, so I had to put the cover back on to see which circuit not to switch on. What if I had switch on and electrocuted these semi skilled, I would have been the one in the crapper not their boss, because I should have known better being the skilled artisan.

[ians]

If a person is caught doing an illegal COC's once and he gets away with it, what will stop him from doing it again and again. I believe if a contractor is caught doing one illegal COC then all his past COC records should be submitted and random checks carried out to see if the contractor made a simple error by over looking something or if he was doing it because he can get away with it. The majority of illegal COCs I have come across are not even filled out correctly. The problem is finding people suitably qualified people to carry out investigations, it doesn't help that the policing body doesn't even have qualified people, how do they know the people who they delegate the investigation to are suitably qualified? The DOl need to employ inspectors who have the expertise to perform their duties and will have the authority to perform their duties, until such time it all just looking after buddies and screwing the completion. You cant have private companies performing the duties of DOL.

[Leecatt]

What they should have done is secure a lug with a pop rivet to the metal box with a 2.5 mm earth tail which should have been taken into the PVC 4x4 box and connected to the new double socket outlets.

This is not legal.
Upon the installation or replacement of any socket outlet the most recent regulations must be enforced.

[ians]

The installation was done a couple of years ago as I indicated.

[ians]

This is not legal.
Upon the installation or replacement of any socket outlet the most recent regulations must be enforced.

What are the new regulations when replacing old sockets, with new sockets? Please indicate with the relevant regs. Taking into consideration that there is an earth leakage unit already installed, the earth continuity is within the require reading test done using both earth continuity test and loop impedance and the earth leakage trips within the require 30 mA.

[Sparks]

Dave, it was stopped because the government decided it can get more money in by dumping ECB and onbudsmen. It was an excellent system.

I agree with posts made after your question with the exception of using a pop-rivet for the earth. I use a screw.

[ians]

Installing an earth wire is first prize, but sometimes other options are required.

The other problem with using a screw or pop rivet is the box is rusted, so what I will do in that situation is bend one tabs back and use an M4 screw with a nyloc and lug.