COC nightmares

[skatingsparks]

I don't know how you guys stop yourself from going mad with these COC's. I generally never do COC's on things I haven't wired myself, ie for when someone is selling there house. I have to do one for a gooood customer (consistent industrial/commercial work) on there house. Seriously, who put 78 down lights on one circuit. There is no space in the board and 3 under floor heating circuits are put in one breaker. Its all earthed and ins res is good but as soon as the next person moves in and puts all the lights on or puts the under floor heating on - pop goes the breaker and ring ring goes my phone. Last domestic coc i swear, day 4 i'm going back again to see what else is wrong.

[desA]

I generally never do COC's on things I haven't wired myself, ie for when someone is selling there house. I have to do one for a gooood customer (consistent industrial/commercial work) on there house.

Apologies if this sounds rude, but - what an incredible conflict of interests you have got yourself into.

[Dave A]

I don't know how you guys stop yourself from going mad with these COC's.

I nearly made a post last week after a series of particularly painful enlightening moments. It was going to be titled "I think I need a holiday" because I was starting to have trouble keeping my composure. Thought better of it after reading my signature.

It can be very frustrating at times though. The line between compliance, design and maintenance certainly isn't as easy to hold as one might think. I've had the most mind-bending conversations on the topic over the years.

Let me share one thing that never ceases to amaze me -

Issue a COC. Weeks later (or more) the geyser element or thermostat has gone faulty and there's no hot water when the purchaser moves in. The COC issuing electrician gets the call, with loads of verbal of how useless they are and "how could they have issued a COC with a faulty geyser element" in the installation.

The remarkable frequency with which this particular problem crops up has led to me to believe that geyser elements have very sensitive souls, just can't handle the trauma of being deserted by their previous owners, and far too often die as a result.

I doubt it's an issue that any electrician in the COC game is a stranger to, and I've always taken it as something that just goes with the territory. Until some time last year.

I was doing a round of talks with various estate agencies when at one of them it emerged this "faulty geyser" problem was not actually the "number one" problem I thought it was - apparently purchasers discovering faulty air conditioning units when they move in is a far more regular occurrence.

Whether this is because air conditioners have even more sensitive souls than geysers, or because sellers are less inclined to maintain air conditioners in tip top working order, I won't even hazard to guess - but I do know I've never had to deal with an upset purchaser (or estate agent) because of a faulty air conditioner yet!

How come when the geyser goes faulty, there is this expectation of the COC issuing electrician. But when the aircon goes faulty, there is no such expectation?

Go figure!

Even more frustrating when my own organisation shoots itself in the foot at times
But at least that's a problem within easy distance to fix, and tends not to give me as much verbal along the way.

It's a tougher game than one would think - that's for sure. Understanding the regs is barely half of the challenge (although it obviously helps ).

[desA]

A solution, perhaps:
1. Geyser element. Inform customer of the statistics - offer to replace, as a precaution. If refused - he signs waiver.
2. A/C - suggest client has a service - even recommend associates etc. Here the biggie is gas leaks from standing system - in all likelihood. If refused - he signs waiver.

When new owner calls - supply him info pack, including signed waivers. They then move onto seller for remedy.

[Justloadit]

@desA All good and well, but Ian's was referring to the failure of the equipment when the new owner moved in. As far as I am concerned, there is no warranty on equipment with a sale, unless the seller is passing on the original equipment warranty card. The main problem in today's sales of brick and mortar are defects in the building, which must be reported to the seller, eg leaking roof, damp walls and such likes, the failure of electrical equipment can not be held responsible to the seller, it could be wear and tear. If the failure can be attributed to electrical wiring, then the COC would come into question

[desA]

^ Agree.

My thought was that if the issuer of the COC were to offer to check/replace/repair/organise the potentially defective items for the seller, then there would be less issue at handover. The seller would then be seen as having acted in utmost good faith.

If seller signs waivers of advice, then the 'utmost good faith' part becomes less robust.

Knowing the SA psyche, the new owners would be looking for any scapegoat they could find. Electrical - ahah easy - grab the COC fellow & squeeze.

[Leecatt]

I really don't understand all the hype around this. I simply refer them back to their COC, on which the very first line on the test report states:
"NOTE 3 This report covers the circuits for fixed appliances, but does not cover the actual appliances, for example stoves, geysers, air conditioning and refrigeration plant and lights. "

[Dave A]

I really don't understand all the hype around this. I simply refer them back to their COC, on which the very first line on the test report states:
"NOTE 3 This report covers the circuits for fixed appliances, ...

What? The geyser element isn't part of the circuit?



You see, the electrical contracting industry has a specific idea as to what constitutes the circuit that is covered, but that specific idea isn't necessarily what is in the client's mind.

If the COC stated "This report covers the circuits supplying power to fixed appliances...", it might help some. But then there are still more than enough issues that cause confusion. For example:

If the COC only covers the circuits supplying power to the appliance, why is an open light fitting in a bathroom not compliant and has to be changed to a closed fitting?

Or -

Why is it a problem if there is exposed wiring in the fixed appliance itself?
Surely that's outside the scope of the COC?

(I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here BTW - but it is the sort of query and argument you have to deal with in this line)

[Leecatt]

The actual appliance itself is still covered by the various safety clauses which are embedded within the SANS.
READ THE BOOK!

[Dave A]

The actual appliance itself is still covered by the various safety clauses which are embedded within the SANS.
READ THE BOOK!

*Client goes running to estate agent*
Your electrician is soooo rude! I don't know why you use that assh0le!

*your phone rings*

[Leecatt]

If your dealing with estate agents then I pity you. I have been giving the cretins a wide berth for years. It is well known in estate agent circles here my distaste for their ineptitude and unprofessional approach to the Coc.

[ELECT 1]

This might sound a bit pedantic, but i dont do COC's anymore for the sale of property's.
Its humiliating to get feed back from a client that all you electricians are in it for the money and screwing us customers.
As in previous posts, anything that goes wrong its your fault blah blah..
So i personally stay away from this if possible. Not a very good approach, but less hassles.

Now you get the spoilers, who do a COC for a 3 bedroomed house for Approx R450-00 spend less than an hour , then milk the owner for the repairs.
I dont know what i was doing wrong but that job took me almost 3 hours approx R1300-00 Then repairs charged out at reasonable prices.
Bye bye COC....