Issuing electrical COCs - On a hiding to nothing!

[1reniernel]

Selling of a factory premises

Not quite. The integral wiring of appliances, depending on the length thereof, just may form part of the COC.

Can you perhaps give me an example of an appliance of which integral wiring must be included in the CoC?

[Sparks]

An eyelevel oven with a hob connected to it more than 1m away, the interconnecting cables form part of the COC. The COC does not end at the first point of termination. The actual oven and hob however are still not part of the COC.

The connecting cables of a split unit aircon unless mounted back to back will also qualify.

[Leecatt]

dave
what you should have done...what everyone else is doing is just fitted a plug top to the cable feeding the outbuiding and you are no longer responsible...it no longer forms part of the installation...time and money saved..

Ive heard of this before and actually seen it about 8 years ago. However I read in an electrical Magazine, could have been Sparks, that it would be contested and the electrician would be found responsible for the alienated circuitry. I can no longer find the relevant article but the following portion of the Electrical Regulations seem to back this up, unless I am reading it wrong. Comments more than welcome to clear this up.


"electrical installation" means any machinery, in or on any premises, used for the transmission of electricity from a point of control to a point of consumption anywhere on the premises, including any article forming part of such an electrical installation irrespective of whether or not it is part of the electrical circuit, but excluding..........(not relevant)

Full regulations here

http://www.labour.gov.za/downloads/legislation/regulations/occupational-health-and-safety/Regulation%20-%20OHS%20-%20Electrical%20Installation%20Regulations.doc

[Sparks]

Spot on Leecatt

[murdock]

so tell me how a ready board works...in low cost housing...1 db...3 plugs and you know the rest...

please show me typical cases where the AIA or DOL have enforced this ruling.

[Dave A]

An eyelevel oven with a hob connected to it more than 1m away, the interconnecting cables form part of the COC. The COC does not end at the first point of termination. The actual oven and hob however are still not part of the COC.

The connecting cables of a split unit aircon unless mounted back to back will also qualify.

Does this mean it can't be done in cabtyre exceeding a certain length?
(3 metres)?

[Sparks]

It means that where integral wiring exceeds 1m in length, that integral wiring also forms part of the certifiable installation and must comply with the applicable regs.

[murdock]

aircons are a good example...they use to only use cabtyre...but inoticed on the project we are busy with they are using 2.5 x 4 core surfix

[Dave A]

It means that where integral wiring exceeds 1m in length, that integral wiring also forms part of the certifiable installation and must comply with the applicable regs.

I've just raised this with my wireman and he's scratching his head - there's nothing about this in the airconditioning section of fixed appliances.
What is the applicable reg?

[Leecatt]

I've just raised this with my wireman and he's scratching his head - there's nothing about this in the airconditioning section of fixed appliances.
What is the applicable reg?

1./ I understand the following to mean that the wiring between different parts of the same appliance that exceed 1,5 meters are to be considered as part of the electrical installation and subject to SANS requirements:

6.16.1.1 Fixed appliances do not form part of the electrical installation other than their positioning in relation to the supply and the wiring carried out between different parts of the appliances.

6.16.1.11 The wiring between different parts of a fixed appliance that are installed separately is part of the fixed installation, even where it is supplied from a socket-outlet, unless such wiring is less than 1,5 m in length.


2./ I understand the following to mean that 2.5mm and 1.5 mm cables should be solid copper type. Ie Surfix or Norsk cable.

6.3.2 Construction
6.3.2.1 Conductors of nominal cross-sectional area exceeding 2,5 mm2 shall be stranded, except in the following cases, where solid conductors may be used:
a) conductors of mineral-insulated metal-sheathed cables;
b) internal connections of distribution boards, switchgear and industrial
controlgear;
c) busbars;
d) aerial conductors;
e) aluminium conductors of nominal cross-sectional area 16 mm2 or
more; and
f) copper conductors of nominal cross

3./ I understand the following to exclude the use of Cabtyre cables entirely

6.3.1 Materials
All conductors of nominal cross-sectional area less than 16 mm2 shall be of annealed copper. In the following cases alternative material may also be used:
a) earth continuity conductors (see 6.12.1.9);
b) bonding conductors (see 6.13.1); and
c) aerial conductors (see 6.3.4).


4./ I hope that I have understood the above quotes correctly.
The reason I am here is to learn and not to teach, please criticize if necessary.

[Dave A]

Thanks Leecatt. At least I can now point to the relevant section that drives the point raised.

While I was looking at the section myself, it struck me how easy it is to take stuff out of context. As example:

6.16.1.6: A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended.

It's clearly pretty important to pay attention to the whole section to get the right interpretation (in this case 6.16.1.1 to 6.16.1.13 in full by the looks of things).

[murdock]

and you need to understand the different between cabtyre flexible cords and and flexible cables...i went to a site where the cabling between the floors...where wired with flexible cables...which was not illegal because unless you understand the definition of cords and cable you could make a noise for nothing.

[Leecatt]

Thanks Leecatt. At least I can now point to the relevant section that drives the point raised.

While I was looking at the section myself, it struck me how easy it is to take stuff out of context. As example:

6.16.1.6: A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended.

It's clearly pretty important to pay attention to the whole section to get the right interpretation (in this case 6.16.1.1 to 6.16.1.13 in full by the looks of things).

Thats right, you literally have to know the whole book - in context as well.
I must be honest and say that I enjoy the rules and regs, quirky but that's me.
I find that the older I get the more slips away and its not that easy any more so this forum is something of great value to me.
If I go on too much about SANS feel free to shit me out

By the way, the name is Lee (i dont know how to change the LEECATT?)

[AndyD]

3./ I understand the following to exclude the use of Cabtyre cables entirely

6.3.1 Materials
All conductors of nominal cross-sectional area less than 16 mm2 shall be of annealed copper. In the following cases alternative material may also be used:
a) earth continuity conductors (see 6.12.1.9);
b) bonding conductors (see 6.13.1); and
c) aerial conductors (see 6.3.4).

I don't think that 6.3.1 excludes the use of cabtyre. Cabtyre has stranded annealed copper conductors. I think section 'a' allows earthing continuity conductors to be galvanised steel conduit for example. Section 'b' allows bonding conductors to be hard-drawn copper bar (not annealed) or aluminium.

I completely agree that interconnecting cables for an oven/hob or an airconditioner may fall under the COC and simple running these appliances from a plug wouldn't exclude them.

[Dave A]

Yet another opportunity to be slagged off as money-grubbing rip-off artists by the the looks of things.

But as I keep saying to clients in our defence - we don't make the rules, we just apply them.

By the way, the name is Lee (i dont know how to change the LEECATT?)

I just checked - I regret the username Lee is already taken.