Outdoor socket standards

[smitty]

Hi

I have an well point pump which is connected to an outside socket. The cable feeding the existing socket, plug and pump comes out of the wall of the house on which it is mounted. The socket is really old (decades) and the housing is made of metal. It has a turnable switch which turns the power on or off. It also has a screw in disk which holds the plug into the socket around its outside.

The electrician who was paid to perform a CoC inspection reckons that it needs to be replaced with an outside plug to meet the CoC standards.

I'm curious as to what sort of outside plug is the correct one to replace it. And what else needs to be done to make it (or other outside sockets) standards compliant.

[Dave A]

Any chance of posting a photo?

Being outside (vs indoor) is usually more about the enclosure...

[smitty]

Photo of the dinosour socket and plug.

Hi Dave

Ja a photo is an excellent idea. The property was built in 1976 so this may be a photo of a dinosaur:



The orientation of the photo does not appear to be correct. The conduit is at the very bottom, the circular switch is in the middle and the socket with the plug in it is at the top.


I think you're right about the enclosure being the missing requirement. I was wandering if something like this would be the solution:

https://www.livecopper.co.za/collections/switches-sockets/products/crabtree-industrial-single-16a-weatherproof-socket

[Dave A]

It looks designed to be an outdoor socket outlet. However, I think I can see why the sparkie is keen to see it replaced - Looking at how painted up it is, my concern would be whether the condition would still allow it to readily act as a disconnecting device.

When it comes to outdoor socket outlets, something like this tends to be our go-to -



Pretty much a standard 2x4 or 4x4 socket outlet in a PSO-1, PSO-2 or S15 enclosure.

[smitty]

It looks designed to be an outdoor socket outlet. However, I think I can see why the sparkie is keen to see it replaced - Looking at how painted up it is, my concern would be whether the condition would still allow it to readily act as a disconnecting device.

When it comes to outdoor socket outlets, something like this tends to be our go-to -

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6528[/ATTACH]

Pretty much a standard 2x4 or 4x4 socket outlet in a PSO-1, PSO-2 or S15 enclosure.

It definitely seems designed to be an outdoor socket outlet. Very rugged and the metal chosen does not rust (where exposed). You do raise a good point about it being painted as it seems to have accumulated a couple of layers of paint.


Ja the ALLBRO socket boxes look like a good option.

[AndyD]

Yes, the soxket in the picture is an outdoor rated socket. If it's not damaged and working properly then there's no reason to change it for a new one. That socket, even at the age it is, will outlast any new replacement. I'd ask the electrician for a specific regulation he things it's in breach of, if he can't give you one then I'd leave it as it is.

[Dave A]

If it's not damaged and working properly then ...

I suspect unscrewing that coupling ring by hand without damaging something might prove a challenge...

Mix cost of time and materials and the cheapest solution is probably to replace.

[smitty]

Well it would be a pity to have to get rid of it because it really is solid and will never perish from UV. As far as I can tell it is undamaged and works perfectly.

The electrician did say at the time (I was present during inspection) that he wasn't sure about it. However it has showed up on the quote to be replaced at a cost of R850...

I'll ask him about which if any regulations it contravenes.

I'll also give loosening that uncoupling ring a go. I'm pretty good at getting things off / unstuck without breaking them. Patience, practice and all that. ;-)

[bergie]

were those old plugs manufactured with safety shutters?
the plug top doesnt look very waterproof either.

[AndyD]

were those old plugs manufactured with safety shutters?
the plug top doesnt look very waterproof either.

I'm kinda playing devils advocate here, that thought also crossed my mind when I saw the photo, I'm not certain but I don't think that reg would apply retrospectively if the socket was installed before the date when safety shuttered sockets were required (assuming the circuit hasn't been upgraded since). Also the socket has a screw on weather-proof cover for when it's not in use so if it was a grey area and it all came down to a risk assessment it would just be a decision by a competant person on the day and I wouldn't hold it against any sparky who deemed it needing replacement.

As for the plug and the cable entry, if I remember correctly this particular type used to come with a gland that screwed into the back, I'm guessing it might be missing in this instant but it doesn't form part of the installation so it wouldn't affect the CoC.

The other thought I had was he might have failed it because he couldn't easily test the point because the plug is pretty unremovable and as Dave says time and cost wise it would be reasonable to replace.

If you really want to keep it then I'd suggest you speak to him and offer to clean it up to the point where it can be tested.

[smitty]

I'm kinda playing devils advocate here, that thought also crossed my mind when I saw the photo, I'm not certain but I don't think that reg would apply retrospectively if the socket was installed before the date when safety shuttered sockets were required (assuming the circuit hasn't been upgraded since). Also the socket has a screw on weather-proof cover for when it's not in use so if it was a grey area and it all came down to a risk assessment it would just be a decision by a competant person on the day and I wouldn't hold it against any sparky who deemed it needing replacement.

As for the plug and the cable entry, if I remember correctly this particular type used to come with a gland that screwed into the back, I'm guessing it might be missing in this instant but it doesn't form part of the installation so it wouldn't affect the CoC.

The other thought I had was he might have failed it because he couldn't easily test the point because the plug is pretty unremovable and as Dave says time and cost wise it would be reasonable to replace.

If you really want to keep it then I'd suggest you speak to him and offer to clean it up to the point where it can be tested.

Maybe I'm starting to think like you. ;-)

I removed the ring last night - took me a few minutes of gentle patience with a rather large monkey wrench to get it to move (read crack the paint that had effectively glued it shut). After that I could turn it loose by hand.

There is a normal (SA three round pin) socket in there. No shutters on the three pin holes as it is ancient. If anyone is curious about how any of it looks e.g. with the cover off and the plug out then I'd be more than willing to take another photo or two but I think the description is pretty through.

It should now be a piece of cake to plug in the testing unit that was used on every other plug on the property. For now the cover is screwed on while I look at replacing the gland on the plug which had perished.

I must say the build quality on the thing is ridiculously good when compared to what is typically found on today's offerings. E.g. really solid brass pins on the plug, the fact that it survived the (albeit careful) application of a monkey wrench, etc.

[AmithS]

Hi guys, just want to confirm something.

The South Africa plug types are C & M.

N is the new type just introduced.

[SeanM]

Hi All

With regards to the regulations, IP rating comes into effect for outdoor equipment and earthleakage protection for socket outlets

[Tang]

Maybe I'm starting to think like you. ;-)

I removed the ring last night - took me a few minutes of gentle patience with a rather large monkey wrench to get it to move (read crack the paint that had effectively glued it shut). After that I could turn it loose by hand.

There is a normal (SA three round pin) socket in there. No shutters on the three pin holes as it is ancient. If anyone is curious about how any of it looks e.g. with the cover off and the plug out then I'd be more than willing to take another photo or two but I think the description is pretty through.

It should now be a piece of cake to plug in the testing unit that was used on every other plug on the property. For now the cover is screwed on while I look at replacing the gland on the plug which had perished.

I must say the build quality on the thing is ridiculously good when compared to what is typically found on today's offerings. E.g. really solid brass pins on the plug, the fact that it survived the (albeit careful) application of a monkey wrench, etc.

That socket probably don't have an earth wire. Steel conduit and 1976

[Lourie1251]

That metal socket is of a aluminium type material. Back in the early 70' s we used it as an out door socket
When you remove the plug top the cover screws on and never really sticks unless you tighten it with a
Tool which is unnecessary. It can never rust! It has no shutters on the socket. If the plug top is plugged in
It is not water proof, the plug top is exposed to the elements. There is no cover to protect the plug top if it rains etc.