[Question] Flood Lights Wired to 3 pin plug

[MullerR]

Good Day All.

Just a quick stupid question. Here is a guy who wants to install 2 flood lights at his house, but he want to connect it to 3pin plug and plug it into a socket outlet and switch it on only when needed. Now according to the regs, you can feed luminaries from a socket outlet, my question is, with what cable can you run from the 3pin plug to the lights. it is approx 25 - 30 meters? Will normal cabtire work(is it according to the regs the right thing to do) or should it be wired directly from the plug, but via a switch and then mark that circuit as mixed? can you guys please led some light here for me?

thanx

[AndyD]

How does he intend to connect the light fittings? Is he going to install conduit boxes to house the joints or is the 25-30 meters of cabtyre basically an extension lead?

I doubt you'll find much relevant guidance in the regs because the floodlight installation would not fall under the fixed installation if it's plugged into a 16A socket.

I'd be worried about 25-30 meters of cabtyre, will a fault at the luminaire provide disconnection within the required times?

[MullerR]

What I understand from him, he wants to install this LED floodlight type of light on a pole, only to be used when needed, so it will not be lights that will be used every evening. The distance also worries me for cabtyre, thats why I asked the question what you guys think will be the better way of doing it? What I suggests is to install the 25 - 30m of Surfix directly from the socket outlet, into a switch, out to the lights underground, up the pole into a conduit box to connect the two lights. Then that specific circuit will be labelled as mixed circuit, OR connect them to the closest light circuit, depends on where it is. I was not on site yet to see what the situation looks like.

[Dave A]

I doubt you'll find much relevant guidance in the regs because the floodlight installation would not fall under the fixed installation if it's plugged into a 16A socket.

But it is a fixture / fixed appliance. Given the length of the cable, I would suggest the connection point between the supplying cable and the luminaire is the final point of consumption.

Among others, a clause that may need to be navigated is 6.1.11 e) which reads:

Flexible cords shall not be used as part of the electrical installation, except where...
e) needed for the connection of luminaires, provided that each connection is limited to one luminaire and to a maximum length of 3 m.

Then there is 6.16.1.6

A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of flexible cords of length exceeding 3m is not recommended. The reason for this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the overcurrent protective device. (But see also 6.14.1.4 for luminaires).

I confess originally I was going to lead with 6.14.1.6, but decided to go with the above because 6.14.1.4 and 6.14.1.6 specify use of SANS 164-3 compliant socket-outlets and talks of a lighting circuit - which may have led to needless arguments about 164-1 socket-outlets given that 6.1.11 and 6.16.1.6 pretty much seals the deal between them already.

[MullerR]

Will the flood lights be a luminaire or fixed appliance?

3.4.3
fixed appliance
appliance that is fastened or otherwise secured at a specific location, and
that would require the use of tools to be moved to another location

3.48
luminaire
appliance that distributes, filters or transforms the light transmitted from
one or more lamps and that includes all the parts necessary
supporting, fixing and protecting the lamps but not the lamps themselves,
and, when necessary, circuit auxiliaries together with the means for
connecting them to the supply

Why I ask is, because Reg. 6.16.1.3(b) states:
The power supply to every fixed appliance, except luminaires,
shall be supplied through
b) a socket-outlet

6.14.1.4
In a lighting circuit, a luminaire that is in a false ceiling or in a
roof space 4 m above the floor where there is no ceiling, or in a floor
cavity, or in a wall cavity, or in a similar position, may be fed from a
socket-outlet which may be unswitched and not protected by earth
leakage protection, provided that the socket-outlet
b) supplies one luminaire only, not exceeding the rating of the socket outlet

6.16.1.6 A socket-outlet shall supply only one fixed appliance. The use of
flexible cords of length exceeding 3 m is not recommended. The reason
for this recommendation is an endeavour to ensure operation of the
overcurrent protective device.

Maybe I'm confused, or i interpret the whole situation wrong (which is not unlikely)
If it is a fixed appliance, it can be fed from a socket outlet (6.16.1.3(b)), provided the flexible cord does not exceed 3m

If it is a luminaire, it can also be fed from socket outlet (6.14.1.4(b)), but only one luminaire, not exceeding the rating of the socket outlet. I doubt if two LED Flood lights will exceed the rating of the socket outlet...

Now after I read all the comments I came up with what I think I should do, please feel free to correct me, that is why I'm here, to learn from you guys with decades of experience. From an existing socket outlet, extend the circuit with the required 2.5sqmm surfix to the pole where the LED Flood Lights will be. Install a weatherproof box with a double socket outlet. Then I connect the flexible cord the the lights, not exceeding 3m with a 3pin plug, then the customer can plug and unplug the lights to the socket outlet as he feels like. I assume a double socket outlet can feed two fixed appliances or two luminaires as both regs (6.14.1.4 and 6.16.1.6) states that only one socket outlet per fixed appliance or luminaire......

[Dave A]

Will the flood lights be a luminaire or fixed appliance?

It can (and probably will be) both. Most often, luminaires are a subset of fixed appliances.

Frankly, your best bet is to stick to these two options if you can -

What I suggests is to install the 25 - 30m of Surfix directly from the socket outlet, into a switch, out to the lights underground, up the pole into a conduit box to connect the two lights. Then that specific circuit will be labelled as mixed circuit, OR connect them to the closest light circuit, depends on where it is.

At the end of the day, when it comes to a fixed appliance or luminaire on a socket-outlet - push for only 1 per socket-outlet and keep it within 3 meters.

[MullerR]

That was my tought too.... well, will have a word with the home owner and explain to him the options....thanx for the input, it is much appreciated.

[AndyD]

But it is a fixture / fixed appliance. Given the length of the cable, I would suggest the connection point between the supplying cable and the luminaire is the final point of consumption.......

If the light and cable is secured and fixed in position then as you say it's a fixed appliance. If the light is temporary and occasional use and the cabtyre is an extension lead then I'm not so sure.

[MullerR]

It will be secured and fixed in a permanent position

[RegElec]

Do the regs that state that a luminaire may be fed from a socket outlet not refer to the permanent internal connection into the socket (ie glanding it off and connect it at the rear of the socket) rather than a luminaire that is plugged in

[MullerR]

Do the regs that state that a luminaire may be fed from a socket outlet not refer to the permanent internal connection into the socket (ie glanding it off and connect it at the rear of the socket) rather than a luminaire that is plugged in

When you do that, it will be more like a mixed circuit...

[SilverNodashi]

/subscribed.

[Sparks]

In a similar situation at tennis courts I provided isolators on the poles fed from the DB with surfix. The client was happy with my suggestion.