You have to see this one...

[skatingsparks]

I got called out to a new client who had a paint mixer where the motor wouldn't start. The red phase had gone so i start tracing backwards to see where the problem is

In all my 20 years of being a sparky I don't think I have come across anything as retarded as this.....

And guess what.... It has a COC. I mean how many things can you get wrong in such a small space!

[Justloadit]

I mean how many things can you get wrong in such a small space!

It seems quite a few

What the heck, seems it was made up with some spare parts from the toolbox, and what about that earth wire?

[tec0]

need i say more?

[AndyD]

Lol, that's a truely world class installation, running the earth through a standard an MCB would have been a common or garden dangerous cowboy but using an isolator almost elevates the move to being artwork. Is that SWA cable in a sungly fitting conduit or is it wearing a condom?.... and why bother with an SWA gland when you can just give the armour a hair cut down to 4 strands and sling it 3/4 of the way around the inside of the enclosure?

Incidentally, the only people I've seen regularly using those QF series slow curve breakers are Eskom and the council.....

Report the tosser to the DOL.

[skatingsparks]

Stolen breakers perhaps..... There were another 6 in the garage DB rated at 80 amps.... on a 2.5 mm cable.

There is so many more in this installation. The circuit in teh carage has a single phase supply (with L, N and earth going through a 3 phase breaker), the meter has been kind or bridges out and the heat from the link is causing (new) 3 phase meter to melt.

The "electrician" is being called back to site today to explain himself. Think it will be a no show.

They have a COC, from somewhere.

[Dave A]

Report the tosser to the DOL.

I'll second that proposal.
This sort of BS just has to stop!

[AndyD]

Stolen breakers perhaps..... There were another 6 in the garage DB rated at 80 amps.... on a 2.5 mm cable.

There is so many more in this installation. The circuit in teh carage has a single phase supply (with L, N and earth going through a 3 phase breaker), the meter has been kind or bridges out and the heat from the link is causing (new) 3 phase meter to melt.

The "electrician" is being called back to site today to explain himself. Think it will be a no show.

They have a COC, from somewhere.

I'd be interested to see a copy of the CoC, is it signed by the installer himself or has he got someone else to issue it? I'd certainly motivate the installer to show up and explain his handywork with thinly veiled threats of a DOL report.

I'd wager on the breakers being stolen but unless they're marked in some way it will be difficult to prove. I've seen similar breakers on market stalls before so it's vaguely possible they were purchased in good faith if someone didn't know better.

If the metering has been tampered with and especially if it's dangerous you should report that to the supply authority. If you ignore an obvious hazard then you could be complicit and held responsible for the consequences.

Is the installation a TT earthing arrangement? If so there's an argument for L+N disconnection by the OCPD but this would normally be done by a SP+N type MCB, 2 poles of a t/pole MCB would offer a similar level of protection I guess. Obviously the earth through the circuit breaker is not acceptable.

[skatingsparks]

I switched it off and advised against switch back on. I wrote them a report highlighting the very obvious things that need resolving immediately.

The municipality came round to switch the breaker back on the pole and didn't seem even slightly bothered about the meter melting away.

They have a small business running there which needed to get an order out so it was switch back on. There are a few small properties on the back they are renting out so the residents wouldn't have been over joyed.

I am quoting to redo the whole thing

[ians]

Incidentally, the only people I've seen regularly using those QF series slow curve breakers are Eskom and the council.....

Report the tosser to the DOL.

Don't be like that Andy...I have just completed a project...every circuit breaker feeding the machines (with motors) have D curve Breakers...D curve are designed for motor start up.

I wish more electricians work do a basic course on circuit breaker applications...I wouldn't have to replace so many breakers tripping due to incorrect selection...either ka or curve...installing a 30 amp breaker ( very common with a/c companies and the like) with 2.5 mm wires might solve the tripping issue on startup but certainly doesn't do anything for the circuit safety.

For those who don't know...a circuit breaker is there to protect the wire and must always be selected according to the fault level at that point...installing a 3 or 6 ka breaker where the fault level is 15 ka will result in the breaker arcing closed (in the on position ) if there is a dead short.

[ians]

Some useless information about circuit breakers.

Circuit breakers are designed for different applications. A standard breaker would be for domestic applications which require standard overload and short circuit protection.

If we had to use the ones in the picture for example. The white being a standard curve 3 used for resistive and inductive loads with low inrush current.

The orange being a curve 1 or D or K curve for some manufacturers used for all of the above and inrush current.

The white is used by most electrical contractors who are not aware of the function of circuit breakers or who choose to spec the current rating of the breaker much higher than required which increases the cost of the installation as bigger cables would be required.

[ians]

I got called out to a new client who had a paint mixer where the motor wouldn't start. The red phase had gone so i start tracing backwards to see where the problem is

In all my 20 years of being a sparky I don't think I have come across anything as retarded as this.....

And guess what.... It has a COC. I mean how many things can you get wrong in such a small space!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6768[/ATTACH]

Go do a refresher course with the ECA or the like...then you will realise why the industry is so F^&%*.

I was called out yesterday to assist with a circuit breaker tripping problem. A new machine was installed and the breaker kept tripping...

A CBI curve 3...30 amp 3 ka breaker installed in a factory. These breakers are designed for DOMESTIC installations, not industrial. Mixing various ka ratings of circuit breakers is quick way of identifying that the electrician who is installing the breakers is clueless.

D...1 and 2 curve circuit breakers are NOT DESIGNED TO BE USED FOR A/C UNITS ONLY...yesterday when i advised the electrician that he had installed the incorrect breaker...his response " orange curve 1 breakers are only used for A/C units...BULLSHIT.

A message to all electricians.......if you work in an commercial or industrial environment go do your homework on circuit breaker selection before you make a fool yourself... Just like installing cables...running 2 cables is not always the solution to high current especially if the equipment is close to the transformer...the fault level has to be taken into consideration for both the cable and the circuit breaker.

[ians]

I'll second that proposal.
This sort of BS just has to stop!

i look forward to the day the DOL actually do something about the electrical industry...be it prosecuting dodgy contractors for crap workmanship or putting an end to contractors dropping off unskilled labour on site.

Every single person working on a site should have to wear a tag with his qualifications...it should be a law.

I am gona say this for the gazillion time...who would be so stupid to trust that the seller has had the COC done correctly of such a huge investment like property

[Gnome]

I'm a newbie to the forum and DIYer (what you guys hate I guess)

With regards to the breaking capacity kA rating of the breaker:

Do you guys actually calculate the required breaking capacity?
For example, I notice that even 10kA breakers are hard to come by.

And 99% of breakers I see installed in homes are 3kA (even on the main breaker).

[AndyD]

The coordination of protective devices is a complicated field. Here's a quick guide covering the basics of coordination, cascading, discrimination etc.

**Damn, file is 3 megs and won't attach Here's a link instead. http://www.engineering.schneider-ele...on_devices.pdf

[Dave A]

With regards to the breaking capacity kA rating of the breaker:

Do you guys actually calculate the required breaking capacity?

For supplies less than 100 amps, I suggest it's best to use a PSSC tester to measure the actual.

In residential installations, you seldom have all the data needed to calculate the PSSC.