New sockets - sans 164-2

[AndyD]

Lol, I like LeGrand, it's like a throwback to the 80's when we had to manually wire the sockets and switches together at the back before the advent of the monoblock type sockets. As you say though they're not cheap.

[serial5228]

Hi

To me one of the most significant regulations that has been brought in is the inclusion of a Euro socket ( SANS 164-2 ) at every socket outlet point.
It appears that this regulation is being misread with some strange interpretations.

SANS 10142-1 ED 2 - pg 177 - 6.15.1.1.1 c - effective from January 2018 all socket-outlet points for new electrical installations shall include at least one socket-outlet complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-2.Socket-outlets points may also include socket-outlets complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-1.

The above regulation does not have any comma's or full stops between socket outlet points and new electrical installations. It also starts with socket outlet points and then refers to at least one socket outlet
It therefore reads that every socket outlet point shall have a euro

If we have a look at the definition of Installation work in the OHSA , which is what gives SANS 10142 teeth , it defines it as - the installation, extension, modification or repair of an electrical installation.

The old single socket and double socket that we are used to can therefore no longer be installed in new electrical installations.We can install any combination of old 16amp sockets , USB sockets as long as one of the socket outlets at the socket outlet point is a Euro.

[serial5228]

the above was from GCE.

[skatingsparks]

Hi

To me one of the most significant regulations that has been brought in is the inclusion of a Euro socket ( SANS 164-2 ) at every socket outlet point.
It appears that this regulation is being misread with some strange interpretations.

SANS 10142-1 ED 2 - pg 177 - 6.15.1.1.1 c - effective from January 2018 all socket-outlet points for new electrical installations shall include at least one socket-outlet complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-2.Socket-outlets points may also include socket-outlets complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-1.

The above regulation does not have any comma's or full stops between socket outlet points and new electrical installations. It also starts with socket outlet points and then refers to at least one socket outlet
It therefore reads that every socket outlet point shall have a euro

If we have a look at the definition of Installation work in the OHSA , which is what gives SANS 10142 teeth , it defines it as - the installation, extension, modification or repair of an electrical installation.

The old single socket and double socket that we are used to can therefore no longer be installed in new electrical installations.We can install any combination of old 16amp sockets , USB sockets as long as one of the socket outlets at the socket outlet point is a Euro.

Agreed.

I have been using the 4 x 4 with one 'normal socket' and one 'new style' so but we are missing out in jobs, especially power skirting installs. We quote to put and old style with a new style next to it. The other guy quotes to just put the old style. The customer is not fussed as everything they have plugs into the old style socket. The other guys quote is cheaper by about R80 - R100 per 'old style' point (as I'm putting a new style next to each old style). A small office install with, say, 10 sockets means I am R1000 more expensive already before any mark up or additional labour charges for the extra points.

Naturally, the other guy will give them a C.O.C..

[skatingsparks]

Looking at a Rewire of existing building (60 million plus) - number of new type sockets used - zero

[GCE]

Hi
Maybe we should give the contractor the benefit of doubt and being a contract that size , - is it not possible that the contract was signed before March 2017 ?
If so then he would be allowed to stick to the "old" type sockets

[skatingsparks]

Hi
Maybe we should give the contractor the benefit of doubt and being a contract that size , - is it not possible that the contract was signed before March 2017 ?
If so then he would be allowed to stick to the "old" type sockets

No, no.... They just don't give a shit and the building was bought this year. I find it insane that someone invests 60 million plus in a building, pays a project manager in excess of R100000 and all you services just get literally thrown in so they can make an opening date. The existing wiring was a joke - but it got a C.O.C. So now they are just adding to the shit stuff. 600 additional light points added in 6 days. The guys who got the job for the lights did it for a third of the other 2 quotes. I cannot believe that was done to standard - but its got a COC.

People just want stuff to "work". If they want one saddle to hold up 3 meters if conduit that is what they will now be given. If its OK that the sockets are not level then that is what they will be given. As long as it's safe I can live with that.

[SilverNodashi]

Has anyone seen any appliances or extension cords using this new plug? I was at Makro the other day to buy some stuff in the electrical section and just noticed that nothing on their shelf uses the new plug yet. Same with other big suppliers.

[GCE]

We did a complex type set up and the domestic type stove extraction fans came with the euro plug top - Was during last year
Must admit that I spoke to an appliance supply in town and he stated that they are still being forced to supply equipment with the old type 16 amp socket.Was also last year around October.

Normally story of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing within the various departments

[ians]

I am yet to install a new type plug...there are bigger problem in this industry than new plugs being installed.

Go buy a makita machine...then ask yourself how it is even legal to sell the machine with that type of plug...if it is not legal to install that type of socket....i bought a new bosch sander and noticed it had a 2 pin flat plug top.

i was called in to test and issue COC's for a new building (as a second opinion)...3 days of testing only 2 DB's got fully tested...on the 4th day i noticed another person carrying out tests and apparently issuing the COC's for DB's in my opion were not ready for testing...i was showing the "electricians" on site how to wire up 2 way switches and i was expected to sign off the work these "electricians" were doing.

[GCE]

You are happy to ignore/ work against the rules in your first sentence , because you feel that the rule is stupid , but are then flabbergasted that another electrician has chosen the DB rule to ignore

Problem in this country at the moment is that we think the rules are there to pick and chose to suit us - And then complain because the taxi industry chose the red robot rule to ignore.

[BobZA]

Has anyone seen any appliances or extension cords using this new plug? I was at Makro the other day to buy some stuff in the electrical section and just noticed that nothing on their shelf uses the new plug yet. Same with other big suppliers.

Noticed an advert from Voltex for multiplug adapters with new socket

[ians]

You are happy to ignore/ work against the rules in your first sentence , because you feel that the rule is stupid , but are then flabbergasted that another electrician has chosen the DB rule to ignore

Problem in this country at the moment is that we think the rules are there to pick and chose to suit us - And then complain because the taxi industry chose the red robot rule to ignore.

My point is that if you gona make rules, make sure that everything complies.

i dont complain about the 6 second red robot taxi rule...i make sure i watch out for it when i get to the robot.

Unfortunately this is Africa, you are not allowed to walk on a freeway yet they have taxis stops on the N2 at kwamashu. Special rule for special people

[Simon India]

Has anyone seen any appliances or extension cords using this new plug? I was at Makro the other day to buy some stuff in the electrical section and just noticed that nothing on their shelf uses the new plug yet. Same with other big suppliers.

[ians]

Has anyone seen any appliances or extension cords using this new plug? I was at Makro the other day to buy some stuff in the electrical section and just noticed that nothing on their shelf uses the new plug yet. Same with other big suppliers.

Bosch had a sander with that type of plug top...the rest are all the illegal shuko plug...maybe someone makes a double adaptor from a new plug to shuko with a sans stamp of approval