Stove on E/L

[skatingsparks]

Sorry if this is a silly question but my work is 90% commercial and industrial but we have got a big dommestic (block of flats) to bring to standard.

Stoves/oven - I have never seen a stove coupler in my electrical life in the 12 years I have been here . I also never seen, unless main switch on the DB is an Earth Leakage or the stove/oven plugs in to a socket, a cooking appliance covered by earth leakage - just a double pole isolator by the side of the appliance.

I saw on the back of some of the (admittedly mostly quite old) stoves that there was a lable stating "Must not be connected via Earth Leakage".

I also saw some flats had cut the plug off and connected to an (very old) existing 6mm cable - obviously not right.

What must we give people to connect there stoves? Where does my responsibility end?
In most cases I have seen just a double pole isolator supplied by a 6mm not on earth leakage.
What control do we have over the next tennant coming in connecting up to the cut of 6mm the last tennat left?

My take is if a stove is under 16amps then connect via earth leakage plug to and that fine.

But in these flats they are mostly big stoves and most are 6mm cables (in various states from the old cloth covered cable to new twin and earth) on 32 amp breakers going to double pole islators and then a 6mm down to where its connected to the stove.

I know these stoves will cause nuisance tripping of on earth leaklage and, honestly, I don't want to be forever being called back because the tennants crapped out (and most of them are crappy old things) but if the rule is - must be on earth leakage then thats what I'll do.

Am I misreading part of the SANS 10142?

Only asking as like I said - never seen a stove coupler - never seen stove on the Earth leakage side of the board. Its usually in there next to the lighting breakers.

Advice please. Asking because I want to do it right before the keyboard warriors slate me.

[skatingsparks]

No worries - I got it

So from what I understand - a free standing stove is via Stove coupler or must be on earth leakage. If fixed standard double pole is fine.

[skatingsparks]

Next question - where on earth do I get them from? In Germiston, Guateng.

[Justloadit]

Maybe these guys, note I have never used them before so can not vouch for them.

Union Electrical
Contact Details
Tel(011) 873-4060
Fax(011) 873-8376


Physical Address
Corner President & Kinross Streets,
Germiston,
1401

[Dave A]

So from what I understand - a free standing stove is via Stove coupler or must be on earth leakage. If fixed standard double pole is fine.

Not quite that simple. That is for stoves rated over 16A....
Below 16A and the free-standing stove can be hard wired in and off earth leakage (provided there is not an isolator/socket outlet "combo" on the circuit).

I know it's not officially published yet, but the draft of edition 3 is out and about (and this amendment on stove connections isn't about to change). It is going to be a requirement (per edition 3) that the tails after the stove isolator can't be left in place when the stove is disconnected.

So to answer your question about responsibility and CYA:
1. Remove the tails if the free-standing stove isn't there / connected.
2. Take photos.

[ians]

Not quite that simple. That is for stoves rated over 16A....
Below 16A and the free-standing stove can be hard wired in and off earth leakage (provided there is not an isolator/socket outlet "combo" on the circuit).

I know it's not officially published yet, but the draft of edition 3 is out and about (and this amendment on stove connections isn't about to change). It is going to be a requirement (per edition 3) that the tails after the stove isolator can't be left in place when the stove is disconnected.

So to answer your question about responsibility and CYA:
1. Remove the tails if the free-standing stove isn't there / connected.
2. Take photos.

After attending an investigation 20 + years ago in Westville where a 2 year old child was electrocuted to death ... the previous owner disconnected and removed the stove and left the tails on the foor ... new owners were moving in not aware that the wires were live.

Rule or no rule you NEVER EVER EVER leave the tails after disconnecting the stove ... remove the tails and leave them in the cupboard.

I dont believe a stove should be on earth leakage ... I have had too many nuisance trips ...even after replacing a new element ... if there is one of those old plug stove isolator combos ... i remove the combo ... fit a plate to cover the big hole (you can buy them from the electrical wholsaler) and fit an isolator and make sure the stove is connected properly with lugs and not wires twisted around the bolts.

[Dave A]

Not quite that simple. That is for stoves rated over 16A....
Below 16A and the free-standing stove can be hard wired in and off earth leakage (provided there is not an isolator/socket outlet "combo" on the circuit).

Seems I have got this wrong (My apologies). Currently all free-standing stoves need to be on a stove coupler or socket outlet...

But this may be changing with edition 3.

[skatingsparks]

Spoke to every wholesaler in a very big radius - 99% have never seen or heard of stove couplers.
Phoned ECA - free standing stove, if not connected to stove coupler, must be via appropriate plug (industrial 32 amp in my case) covered by earth leakage.
Currently I connected direct to stove - 32 breaker covered by earth leakage through double pole isolator then stove. Now I'm going to add the socket.
It's already causing problems with nuisance tripping.
Customer points out on the stove there is label saying not to connect to earth leakage as can cause nuisance tripping. Checked the manuals (that I can find) for the stoves and the ones I found state - no need for earth leakage.

Do I go to SANS 10142 or does manufacturers instruction over rule the need for E/Leakage - I mean it's written on most of the stoves I have seen.

If there was no stove I installed as above and enclosed the cable in a conduit box in 60amp connectors.

[skatingsparks]

Obviously advised client to not use stove until they carry out repair causing nuisance tripping.

[JustJohann]

Stove on E/L

I have been seeing more and more of this stove connection issue popping up. The stove coupler was a common thing way back. I can stil remember when I started working in 02 one of my jobs was to make “stoof gorrels” as they where called. 1.5m of 6mm red and black,1.5mm of 4mm green/yellow earth and,2x 6x6 lugs,1x 4x6 lug,1.4m of 20mm sprague tubing,2 x 20mm adapters and the aforementioned stove coupler plug. I got so good that i would take 15min to assemble it. This was the sold to the customers or even fitted by one of our electricians to the customers stoves. This basically made it easy to unplug the stove to move it around. There was also a 3phase variant. I think the reason why these started to disappear was due to the increase in built in hobs and ovens.

[JustJohann]

Went and dug out my old green sabs 0141-1 Ed.1 as I remembered seeing this in Annex A. Today if you go to Annex A you will see the following words: Deleted by amendment No 5 Pages 294 to 297 have been deleted by amendment No. 5. So why have they deleted it if they are now bringing it back as required ?