New smart timer from CBI

[ians]

https://cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/asc-qr

CBI has a really bad reputation for timers ... I dont support them ...simply because for half the price you can get a timer which will break just as quick ... however I came acrosss this new timer/Astuate smart controller from CBI.

I will only be collecting my new unit in the morning ... I wanted to get some feed back from anyone else who has tried this timer/smart controller ...according to CBI everyone who has one is very happy with the unit ... lets hear from everyone

bragging the following:

Wi-Fi enabled
Scheduled energy management
Energy monitoring
Automation and IoT
Device automation sharing
CBI Home App and more

What got my attention is the 30 amp switch rating ... I dont know of any brand of geyser timer that can handle a 4 kw geyser element longer than 6 months of constant switching.

I am being told the unit falls aseep if it looses the wifi connection ... that just sucks ... apparently the unit is controlled in the cloud ... no cloud no operation

If you have a telkom ADSL line like me ... that means you loose hot water every couple of weeks for a a couple of weeks ... you know what that means within a week the unit will be bypassed or disconnected and thtown in the pile of 5 trillion other "geyser" timers I have installed for customers ... who within a couple weeks or months realise its a gimmik and have it removed ... all it takes is 1 cold shower after a visit to the beach on a saturday morning at 11 ... the wife wants it out.

[GCE]

Timers are a pain in my Life
We started using the Astro Nova timer and have around 10 or so in for the past 4 years - Little bit more but worth it in shopping centers for outside lighting as it adjusts the time automatically to sunrise and sunset.
Had one go faulty , removed it and brought it down to the workshop - Connected up and it was working perfectly. Seems like if a spike gets to it , you need to drop power to it for 5 minutes and switch back on.
All the settings etc were still there.

[ians]

The more I ask questions about this CBI timer/ASC ... the more I am getting a bad feeling about it ... It seems it is still too new for anyone to give me a straight answer ... the fact that it relys on wifi ... the fact that i need to switch a 4 kw element ... I am gonna have to sleep on it and make a decision in the morning.

[ians]

So i decided to bite the bullet and collected 2 units.

Out the box ... looks similar to the old timers ... same shape etc.

Removed the old CBI timer from the DB ( It hasnt worked for about 3 years ... bypassed it and used it as a DB blank since then) and fitted the new ASC.

Connected it up ... linked it ot the wifi and paired it to my phone ... simple easy process .. .even I could do it without phoning a friend.

Browsed the app without even reading those things people put in the package which nobody reads until things go wrong ( the instruction manual)

Setup the timer and we done ... very very simple.

But here is the part which will hlep me ignore the sleep mode when the wifi connection is lost ... which by the way sends you a notification to tell you it has disconnected ... it has an electric tab ... so right now the current is 4.316 amps ... the power is 1030 ... the voltage 239.9 and total (KWH) so far is 0.50 and below the info it indicated November ... I am liking this feature ... which reminds me ... I need to switch the bypass off so that it switches with the timer.

The click sound it makes as it switches sounds pretty solid.

Time to go install the other unit

By the way CBI didnt sponsor these units ... I paid for both if the unit goes faulty or we start experiences issues with them you will know about it.


IF you are smart you fit one to your security lights ... 1 to your pool pump and you can see the useage per day per month

[Dave Morrison]

I like this features:

The programmable time switch can be used to automatically control pool pumps, lights, geysers, etc.
LCD touch-screen
Simple setting of time and programs
Multiple ON/OFF programs
Improved 15 minute segments
Graphical display on home screen of 24h program schedule
Compact size
Dual mount: Mini rail or DIN rail (remove escutcheon adapter)
Backup power displays time for 12 hours and keeps time for at least 24 hours. The programmed schedule is always retained.
Time switch has a by-pass (manual ON/OFF) capability

[ians]

I like this features:

The programmable time switch can be used to automatically control pool pumps, lights, geysers, etc.
LCD touch-screen
Simple setting of time and programs
Multiple ON/OFF programs
Improved 15 minute segments
Graphical display on home screen of 24h program schedule
Compact size
Dual mount: Mini rail or DIN rail (remove escutcheon adapter)
Backup power displays time for 12 hours and keeps time for at least 24 hours. The programmed schedule is always retained.
Time switch has a by-pass (manual ON/OFF) capability

You are refering to a standard CBI timer ... the ones which have a really bad reputation ...sometimes you get "lucky" and it works for longer than a year.

https://cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/qat

The ASC (Astuate smart controller) from CBI was released a few months ago.

[ians]

Then just let CBI kick you in the teeth properly.

The electrical wholesalers are selling the product to the electrical contractors for just under R500 including vat.

Then you get a customer who visits the most expensive DIY shop in the country (Builder warehouse) and finds them on the shelf for R349 including vat.

No wonder the wholesalers dont support CBI anymore.

So I visit builders to buy 10 of them ... nobody knows what I am talking about ... the code doesnt reflect on their system ... they cant pick up the code on the system ...yet they have a label on the shelf with the price and code ... a promotional advert with a picture of the product ... but nobody knows anything about the product.

[ians]

I got a call from CBI today to clear up this mess.

CBI will be offering training at my local builders warehouse in the morning to assist staff with the product.

The price is an inhouse special offered by builders.

If you buy this product for your local electrical wholesaler you will pay between R450 and R600.

[ians]

I can officially install these units faster than the customer can download and register the app on the phone.

Builders cannot keep up with demand for these units

[ians]

Oooops ... before installing one of these units there are 2 things to note.

1 - Make sure you have wifi coverage at the point you are going to install the unit ...dont assume there is coverage everywhere in the building.

2 - Make sure the WiFi is 2.4 GHz

[ians]

So there are pros ...but unfortunately like everything ... there are cons.

One of the cons is the lack of control over the temperature of the geyser ... as I am experiencing first hand.

I have had the ASC unit installed at home for almost a month ... has it saved me money ... yes ( total consumption for Novemer 125 kwh X @R2.09 =R261.25) ... but at what cost ... today the unit has been bypasses until I can find a better solution ... the consumption has already passed the 6 kwh average daily useage and it is only 12 midday.

The family have had enough of cold and luke warm water baths.

There are a few solutions to this issue ... I can fit a bigger element to reduce the time to heat the water ... turn up the temperature on the thermostat ... fit a device with built in temperature monitoring/control.

The question I keep asking myself everytime I fit a timer or device to a geyser ... do you actually save money?

Unless you mount the geyser next to the tap and fit a geyser with a big enough element to heat up in a short time frame ... you gonna have losses be it via the cold water in the pipes ... when the geyser mixes the cold into the hot as it fills.

The good ol donkey outside with an open fire ... could be the cheapest solution.

[GCE]

Hi
I was involved in testing the efficiency of a new geyser that was being designed.
There were all sorts of tests run and some basically the same as fitting a timer to a geyser.

I was asked the question often about fitting timers to geysers and ended up fitting a KWH meter and timer to my own geyser - One week I run using the timer and took note of the units used and the next week without timer taken note of units used .
I did this for about 6 weeks to average things out.

At the end there was no real difference whether you had a timer or didn't and it actually seemed to use more energy when a timer was in play.

In the end the energy used is directly proportional to the amount of water used and is determined by the formula
q=cmΔT
where
q - amount of energy used
cm - heat capacity of water
ΔT - change in temperature

if you use 10 liters of water you will need to heat the 10 liters .When you heat it makes no difference unless you are on a time of use tariff and the units cost less in the middle of the night then during the day or during peak times.

The only way to save electricity on a geyser is , use less water , or reduce the temperature .

[Justloadit]

Another solution is what I have designed - Use PV panels to heat your water.
I installed my latest design for a dual geyser system. That is 2 off 150 litres with 10 off 260W PV panels.
The installation was completed on Tuesday last week.
This has been a week of overcast weather, and clocked just over 10kWH on Wednesday last week, which was a little cloud day, and bearing in mind that the geysers were starting from a low temperature of 34° C each due to being switched off during the whole installation process. By 17H00 both geysers were at 60°C when the thermostats shut off.
Every day the water temperature has been at 60°C when the thermostats have disconnected the elements
Went to check the reading today - Saturday after sunset, and the accumulated energy used from the sun is 48.891kWH, making it an average of 9.778kWH per day. I pay an average of about R2.80kWH, it is high because what is not informed to users, here in Johannesburg, I pay over and above the electricity usage because I have a post paid meter
Network Surcharge of R 19.68 excluding VAT
Service Charge R147.74 excluding VAT
Network Charge R 596.18 excluding VAT
Every day since then has been and average of 6 to 7kWH

So since I installed the system, I have already saved R 137.00 or R 27.42 a day.

If any one is interested, got www.usedasun.com or send me a private message and I will send you the information for the Usedasun Solar geyser system

[Dave A]

if you use 10 liters of water you will need to heat the 10 liters .When you heat it makes no difference unless you are on a time of use tariff and the units cost less in the middle of the night then during the day or during peak times.

The only way to save electricity on a geyser is , use less water , or reduce the temperature .

You're sort of right, particularly if your geyser has great insulation. However, a trial I did a Geyserwise timer system on my gravity geyser a few years ago yielded some pretty good results. It isn't a particularly well insulated geyser

I was going to try their pv dual element system, but the ELU problem has put that thought on hold.

Might have to give Justloadit's usedasun system a go...

For all the benefit of energy saving (or not), what I really love about the Geyserwise setup is the easy control it gives you on water temperature settings.

[GCE]

Hi Dave

On a gravity feed geyser you will see good results as the efficiency is so bad - On the older pressure geyser there could be a slight saving , but debatable , on the newer flange mount elements you don't see it due to the element design and water flow around the element .I was given a story around the design of the element , thought it was BS but on trying different things it does seem to be more efficient. The insulation material has also improved dramatically
I like the geyser wise system due to the ease of adjusting temperature which to me is were the savings come from as it is more accurate then the bimetal strip.

With regards to the PV dedicate to a geyser in my mind makes no sense at the coast. I understand the logic in near freezing temperatures where the convention solar water type systems burst seals etc.
At the coast PV panels ability to absorb energy sits at around 30% max whereas solar water type system ability is around 70% .

To me I would rather take the money spend on panels dedicated to a geyser only and use them for panels to " gridtie " within my own network so that if the geyser is at temp I can use the excess energy to reduce my account on other items.
I only have 2KW of PV at the office along with a Tesla powerwall and run for days without using any municipal power, but then I am a stingy bastard that does not allow an aircon in the office.