Electric cars in SA

[ians]

Something to think about ... in the past I have alaways thought the reason electric/battery powered cars have not taken off was because the pertol industry has throttled it ... but have you ever thought ... it could have something to do with fuel taxes ... just imagine how much revenue would be lost in taxes if nobody was buying fuel?

[adrianh]

Electric cars are a total farce. It is one of the biggest waste of time/marketing scams ever.

Build proper public transport and stop screwing around burning coal to lug a 1000kg battery that is a frigging fire hazard.

[Derlyn]

Something to think about ... in the past I have alaways thought the reason electric/battery powered cars have not taken off was because the pertol industry has throttled it ... but have you ever thought ... it could have something to do with fuel taxes ... just imagine how much revenue would be lost in taxes if nobody was buying fuel?

This thread is gonna be lekker.

The Elon Musk haters have already voiced their opinion.

I think you hit the nail on the head there ,Ian.

Nice big solar panel .... charge your car .... what could be better.

There are already battery powered light aircraft. Charging time = flying time. Fly for an hour .. charge for an hour.

Nice thread, brother.

Peace out .. Derek

[ians]

I thought Tesla were doing so well ... I hear the only reason they are still operating has to do with a credit system in the USA.

The future ... I hope to live a long time just so that I can see what is coming in the next 50 years ... To think when I was born there wasnt even television ... when I started my bussiness ... no computers ... no cellphones ... we used pagers ... all the older folk will remember autopage pagers were a big thing ... you would get a message and have to find a coin operated call box ... eeeiish.

[adrianh]

This thread is gonna be lekker.

The Elon Musk haters have already voiced their opinion.

I think you hit the nail on the head there ,Ian.

Nice big solar panel .... charge your car .... what could be better.

There are already battery powered light aircraft. Charging time = flying time. Fly for an hour .. charge for an hour.

Nice thread, brother.

Peace out .. Derek

Knock yourself out!

[ians]

The reality is in the UK it has become big bussiness installing car chargers ... SA might be a little behind ... considering we are a 3rd world country and going backwards by the day ... just imagine load shedding might be up to 4 hours ... you would have to wait 4 hours to recharge your car

[GCE]

There was an article that I read the other day were it stated that by 2030 the majority of cars produced would be electric and that Europe will stop accepting the manufacture of new cars.
Motor companies in SA were requesting that government look at the regulations governing electric cars as they need to start changing there manufacturing plants as something like 80% of vehicles built in SA are exported

[adrianh]

The idea that all cars sold will be electric at some point is truly rediculous. Since when do the entire planet live in large cities. Vast numbers of people live in rural areas - So are you saying that my friend living in the middle of Namibia is going to get rid of his truck to buy an electric vehicle so that he can be stuck 1000km away from civilization in the middle of nowhere with a charger.

This whole electric car thing might be ok if you live in Paris and you are surrounded by 10 nuclear power stations but it is a total farce for people outside of those densely populated urban areas.

Electric cars are a farce because the cradle to grave energy requirements to run them is no better than fossil fuels (It is actually much worse due to the mining of heavy metals) Where the hell do you think electricity comes from - Where do you think Lithium batteries come from?

The whole thing is a farce - all that it does is to shift the generation of energy to power plants (which burn fossil fuels and trees). You think you have $h1t with the petrol price - See what happened to the price of electricity in Texas when their grid failed.

You are living in a dream world - If you think you are cost effectively going to generate enough electricity to power your big fat 2ton car you are sadly mistaken and besides - where are you going to store your electricity (in your expensive lithium batteries) - Go see what a replacement battery costs on a Tesla or a BWM.

Look at what Tesla did to the guy that tried to power his house from his Tesla car during the Texas blackout - They chopped his nuts off.

My mind boggles as to why people jump on these idiotic bandwagons - Elon Musk and his Tesla nonsense NEVER EVER made a profit from his cars - Tesla is overvalued to such an extent that it would take 1600 years of production at their current rate to reach the value. TESLA MAKES ITS MONEY ON CARBON CREDITS - THE CARS DO NOT MAKE MONEY!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-would-need-1600-years-to-earn-the-money-invested-in-it/ar-BB1cJfmo

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability/index.html

Then there is the idiotic Tesla stainless steel truck thing - There are very good reasons why cars are not made from stainless steel - Delorian tried that..... I bet Elon Musk made that silly truck thing on purpose to mess with the Fanboys - I can't believe that he is that stupid!

[Justloadit]

The idea that all cars sold will be electric at some point is truly rediculous. Since when do the entire planet live in large cities. Vast numbers of people live in rural areas - So are you saying that my friend living in the middle of Namibia is going to get rid of his truck to buy an electric vehicle so that he can be stuck 1000km away from civilization in the middle of nowhere with a charger.

This whole electric car thing might be ok if you live in Paris and you are surrounded by 10 nuclear power stations but it is a total farce for people outside of those densely populated urban areas.

Interesting, when internal combustion engines started in the early 20th centuary, there were no petrol stations to fill up. You had to plan your journey out of the city to ensure that there was a chemist to buy alcohol to put in your tank.

So the same statement was done then, and look where we are now, a petrol station at every convenient corner. So it is part of progress, you have to start somewhere.

Electric cars are a farce because the cradle to grave energy requirements to run them is no better than fossil fuels (It is actually much worse due to the mining of heavy metals) Where the hell do you think electricity comes from - Where do you think Lithium batteries come from?

Also very interesting, to get the petrol or diesel engine to start, you require a battery, and where do they land up once they don't work any more.
Minning changes with time. It started at salt mines, progressed to sulpher, then copper, iron, then coal, then diamonds, gold, platinum, and the list goes on. The problem here is more about how minning companies handle the environment while minning.

The whole thing is a farce - all that it does is to shift the generation of energy to power plants (which burn fossil fuels and trees). You think you have $h1t with the petrol price - See what happened to the price of electricity in Texas when their grid failed.

There in lies the problem, with fossil fuels. Firstly we are releasing the carbon stored in the ground, which originally was removed by plants to increase the amount of oxygen in the air and reduce the poisonous carbon dioxide in the air, to allow life to begin on this planet. Burning fossil fuels, is releasing the poison back into the air at a faster rate than can be removed by plants. So effectively every litre of fossil fuel burnt, is making it one step closer to the extinction of animal life on this planet.

We have to start some where. We have free fusion striking our planet every single day. Currently it is not always convenient for us to collect due to the weather, but using solar we can start changing the dependence of fossil fuels. One way that we are successfully storing it today is in batteries, but this is changing as technology moves forward, driving the demand for energy storage, it stimulates the creative juices to find better ways to store. Follow the Super Caps battery development, mind boggling, where you can charge the 'battery' theoretically in a few minutes, if you have the base energy supply available to do so.

If we dismiss every idea as foolish thinking, then we would not have progressed, and will not progress.

You are living in a dream world - If you think you are cost effectively going to generate enough electricity to power your big fat 2ton car you are sadly mistaken and besides - where are you going to store your electricity (in your expensive lithium batteries) - Go see what a replacement battery costs on a Tesla or a BWM.

Yes true, but look where the original price came from. As with any product, the first ones are always expensive, and as production ramps up, and more streamlined, costs do come down.

Studies have been done, that the cost of the battery and charging costs, are far less than the equivalent in petrol.
Lets just take that you use R2,000 worth of petrol every month, and there is no price increase for the next 5 years. In 5 years, you would have consumed over R600,00.00 worth of fuel, and not taking into consideration the regular servicing that internal combustion engines require.
Lets say that we use 10kWatt of electricity every day, including week ends. At R2.50 a Kw translates to approximately R45,000.00 worth of electricity in the same 5 years of consumption. Yes the initial cost of the vehicle is higher, but adding all the numbers , it is still cheaper than using fossil fuels. Yes the burden of power supply shifts from petrol to the fossil fueled power statio, but lets not forget, you I.C. is at best 22% efficient for the power provided for fuel consumed, versus a power station, which if run well is above 50%. So for the same amount of carbon produced by I.C. engines, we get double the amount of electricity produced. A no brainer there.

Off course there are new methods coming on line to provide electricity generation, so at some time or other there will be reduction in the fossil fuel power stations.

Look at what Tesla did to the guy that tried to power his house from his Tesla car during the Texas blackout - They chopped his nuts off.

My mind boggles as to why people jump on these idiotic bandwagons - Elon Musk and his Tesla nonsense NEVER EVER made a profit from his cars - Tesla is overvalued to such an extent that it would take 1600 years of production at their current rate to reach the value. TESLA MAKES ITS MONEY ON CARBON CREDITS - THE CARS DO NOT MAKE MONEY!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-would-need-1600-years-to-earn-the-money-invested-in-it/ar-BB1cJfmo

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability/index.html

Then there is the idiotic Tesla stainless steel truck thing - There are very good reasons why cars are not made from stainless steel - Delorian tried that..... I bet Elon Musk made that silly truck thing on purpose to mess with the Fanboys - I can't believe that he is that stupid!

Its called free marketing.
All newspapers, magazines and news rooms have reported on the story. No huge marketing budget could have achieved the same amount of exposure.

[adrianh]

Watch a documentary called "Planet of the humans" to see the other side of this whole farce.

The only effect that that electric cars is going to have is to "possibly" clean the 1st world environment (unless you consider all the trees that they burn to generate electricity - so-called biomass) . ....at the cost of shifting the "dirty" environments to the 3rd world.

I truly have zero faith in the whole electric car thing - it is simply another iPhone-esc pay more to get less fanboy driven consumerist bandwagon. I am yet to see any real life upsides to this technology for the common man.

Look, the technology might improve over time and it might become more cost effective. I am simply saying that it is not the panacea that people make it out to be and further that it is not going to replace fossil fuels for a very very long time. The problem with the technology at the moment is that it is totally over-hyped. Besides, we still need oil and jet fuel no matter what so our reliance on crude oil isn't going anywhere. People seem to think that governments are goining to wave a magic wand and petrol vehicles will be replaced with electric vehicles - it will not happen.

I think that one of the primary reasons that this nonsense is going to go very far very fast is due to military needs. I cannot see any military replacing the bulk of their vehicles with battery operated vehicles. Imagine a tank on a battlefield having to sit around for 12 hours charging....from where....a diesel generator? Imagine dropping 500 tanks into a foreign country....what...with battery chargers in tow....I want to see the military occupy Afghanistan with battery operated tanks.....

The whole "save the planet" shtick is also nonsense because it actually means "make it so that the 1st world can live nicely in the suburbs" - look at recycling - it is a total farce because the garbage simply gets pushed onto the 3rd world.

[Blurock]

The whole "save the planet" shtick is also nonsense because it actually means "make it so that the 1st world can live nicely in the suburbs" - look at recycling - it is a total farce because the garbage simply gets pushed onto the 3rd world.

Agreed, Adrian. It is almost like Germany declaring that they are now going green and closing all their stinking coal powered plants. They will be green because they will import nuclear and coal power from France and Russia. (They do not want their own nuclear plants because of the danger of contamination)

I am not a scientist, but I remember from school that plants take carbon dioxide from the air and through a process of photosynthesis, mixing it with water and light, convert it to sugars (carbohydrates) with oxygen as a by product. In other words, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. We need plants to clean the air. That is how this planet was created and programmed. How many of the "green" people may not even know this? Earth is an interdependent ecosystem and things go wrong when people start to interfere.

[Justloadit]

I am not a scientist, but I remember from school that plants take carbon dioxide from the air and through a process of photosynthesis, mixing it with water and light, convert it to sugars (carbohydrates) with oxygen as a by product. In other words, plants need carbon dioxide to grow. We need plants to clean the air. That is how this planet was created and programmed. How many of the "green" people may not even know this? Earth is an interdependent ecosystem and things go wrong when people start to interfere.

Yes, but the amount of carbon dioxide we spew into the air daily far over supplies the current plants that use it to grow.

Remember that we are taking oil from the byproduct of decayed plants which have taken millions of years to absorb into what we burn in few hours.
If you study the bio history of the earth, there was no plant life in the beginning, as there was almost no oxygen in the air. Over millions of years the microbes consumed the carbon as fuel, and broke the bonds down the carbon dioxide into a by product - oxygen. As the level of oxygen changed, so then did plant life begin to emerge.

During the dinosaur periods, the animals grew so large, because oxygen was abundant, much higher percentage than today which helped with the growth rate.

As natural disasters took place, so then did the air percentages changed. The carbon dioxide has been stored in the oil, but now we are releasing it into the air with every litre burnt.

But don't worry, mother earth has been here for 4 billion years, and will be here for another 4 billion years. Every now and again, she makes an adjustment to balance nature, so we are simply just speeding the process up. A virus here, a virus there, a volcanic eruption here a continental shift and tsunami there. A tornado here a cyclone there, and it makes a cleansing motion of what ever is unbalancing it.

So enjoy it while you can, as they say in G.O.T. - "Winter is coming!"

[adrianh]

The earth will be here no matter what we do - it simply adapts. We are a blip on the radar of the bigger scheme of things.

The whole climate change going green thing is ONLY about the comfort of the 1st world suburbs - nothing more and nothing less.

[Justloadit]

The earth will be here no matter what we do - it simply adapts. We are a blip on the radar of the bigger scheme of things.

The whole climate change going green thing is ONLY about the comfort of the 1st world suburbs - nothing more and nothing less.

Yes but as a species, we are enabling our demise.

[adrianh]

Yes but as a species, we are enabling our demise.

Whether the man in the street drives electric cars or not is not goining to change this fact. Further - it is not the species as a whole - it is 1st world driven obsolescent consumerism that is driving the demise of the 3rd world.