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Dave will give a better answer since he spends the majority of time doing inspections.
Installation has to be inspect for compliance at the date of installation - So on an older premises you would need to go back and basically ensure it complies to fundamentals.
The grey area comes in when an AIA inspects and says because work was done on the installation it would then need to comply to the new regs.
Case in point would be maintenance on the installation , changing a geyser element , then the new regs would apply .
Likewise , the house was wired in 1980 but the fan installed in 2020 , then the isolator should have been installed in 2020 under those regulations.
To me it becomes tricky and I would make sure that within reason it complies to today's reg's - Probably the reason I don't play in that market as I out price myself and will only do it for the buyer .
I refuse point blank to do COC's for the seller as I waste my time pricing it because he wants cheap and nasty , Dave will say compliant.
Graham has summed up the challenge quite neatly in his post above.
The way we navigate the "timing" problem is we start by measuring compliance with the current, full standard. This way, at least when it comes to considering change-in-standard timing issues, we are burning time on a fairly short list. From there, I suggest the safest way is "if in doubt, apply the current standard" when making your recommendations (what most call a "faults list").
If we are going to apply a lesser/historical standard rather than the current standard, we want clear evidence sufficient that we can justify the decision.
Remember our "sheriff" is often not our client, but the purchaser of the property - and whomever they call in for technical assistance (which could be an AIA or knowledgeable IE/MIE or someone with a badly formed opinion).
The older properties used the steel conduits as an earth so no earth wire in the socket outlets go to do an inspection to find pvc socket fittings?
Then I would say maintenance work has been done on the installation and it must comply with the new regulation which should have been done when the sockets where changed - My opinion
The biggest problem with issuing COC's for existing installtions ... most inspectors dont have all the regs dating back to the 1900's ... so how can they sign off an old installaion ... if they dont have the regs to back up the last COC.s ... you would need to refer to the standard at the time and the date of such publication ... which is how inspection reports should be done ... expecially if the inspector is only doing the inspection report ... which is then handed out for quotes to repair.
I get it all the time ... companies send inspectors out on a budget ... so the inspection report arrives at the desk ... an example ... no earth ... no location ... no reference to the regulation ... just "no earth" ... is it a class 11 fan which doesnt reuire an earth ... no mains earth ... no earth on the plug sockets ?
Inspection reports should included the location ... the reason why it has failed with reference to the code ... but hey ... at R600 for inspection reports ... what more do you expect ... and absolutely no worries about any form of procecution ... its a circus.
In most cases like the one I am working on at the moment ... its not the old regs that are the problem ... its the blatant disregard to the regs ... I have been taking pics as I am busy "repairing" an installation which has a COC it thing like neutral which dont even go through the main switch ...but instead ... goes directly to the neutral bar ... this installation was passed by a company which specialises in COCs.
I went out to a job the other day ... you can see by opening the trap door and removing the DB lcover that the person who issued the COC didnt even vist the site ... generally old regs like geysers not on earth leakage and no isolators for ceiling fans are the leas tof your problems.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
If you carry out a loop impendance test at the sockets where steel conduits are used for earth continuity and it is within spec ... there shouldnt be a problem.
Its when you arrive at a site ... a "team member" was dropped on site and left with the task of replacing all the old 5 amp sockets with pretty looking 4x4 extention boxes and plastic double socket outlets ... who doesnt know how to use a plug tester ... or wasnt left with one to check that all 3 lights come on ... then you contact the owner and he gets all defensive
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
Also.. Say there's 230v on a light fitting, but light does not work due to faulty ballast, bulb etc.. Must it be fixed for COC?
Or does inspection stop at the connector block / terminals in light fitting?
Sorry I'm sure it's been asked many times before
Also.. Say there's 230v on a light fitting, but light does not work due to faulty ballast, bulb etc.. Must it be fixed for COC?
Or does inspection stop at the connector block / terminals in light fitting?
Sorry I'm sure it's been asked many times before
The COC stops at the terminal and the light fitting is not part of the coc - For sanity sake repair because the phone call and argument will start .
Also on the sale of a house , generally , all appliance etc must be in working order which is where the other part of the argument starts.
We once removed a wall light in the passage way that was decoration more than for light and was fed by twin flex. Seller told us to remove he is not paying to correct the circuit. Buyer moves in and throws toy's out of the cot as he had a photo with that light there. We reinstalled the light on the sellers instructions and when it came for payment the seller was in a different town, agent wanted to know nothing nor did the transferring attorney.Account was to small to take legal action.
The biggest problem with issuing COC's for existing installtions ... most inspectors dont have all the regs dating back to the 1900's ... so how can they sign off an old installaion ... if they dont have the regs to back up the last COC.s ... you would need to refer to the standard at the time and the date of such publication ... which is how inspection reports should be done ... expecially if the inspector is only doing the inspection report ... which is then handed out for quotes to repair.
Even if they have the full library of historical regs and standards, do they read them and are fully conversant with them. My proposed solution to the problems this causes is this clause in SANS 10142-1 is deleted:
The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an
electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the
requirements applicable to that particular electrical installation.
In the interests of safety and sanity I suggest the standard applicable should be the standard as at the date of issue of the COC.
Even if they have the full library of historical regs and standards, do they read them and are fully conversant with them. My proposed solution to the problems this causes is this clause in SANS 10142-1 is deleted:
The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an
electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the
requirements applicable to that particular electrical installation.
In the interests of safety and sanity I suggest the standard applicable should be the standard as at the date of issue of the COC.
It would be the big cheese moment (back when I started this business if I got a big job and got paid for it ... we would include a big cheese in the monthly shopping) for electricians if you could get that right.
The entire system needs to be revamped ... it is an outdated system which doesnt work ... it shows in the state of electrical installations.
Comments are based on opinion...not always facts....that's why people use an alias.
Even if they have the full library of historical regs and standards, do they read them and are fully conversant with them. My proposed solution to the problems this causes is this clause in SANS 10142-1 is deleted:
The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an
electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the
requirements applicable to that particular electrical installation.
In the interests of safety and sanity I suggest the standard applicable should be the standard as at the date of issue of the COC.
I don't agree with your statement of removing the clause
It could become a problem in a shopping centre where the design was done and completed in the 1980's and you now want it to comply to today's earthing standards , type tested DB's , cable routes not through other shops etc
I don't agree with your statement of removing the clause
It could become a problem in a shopping centre where the design was done and completed in the 1980's and you now want it to comply to today's earthing standards , type tested DB's , cable routes not through other shops etc
It will create problems if removed
I suggest it is creating massive problems as it stands and we have to find a better way.
How on earth is any new entrant to the role of IE and MIE going to be conversant with all these different historical standards?
Is there any concerted effort to ensure that new IE's have this knowledge if it is a requirement of their trade?
How is this issue treated in other parts of the world?
ps. It's a proposal. The objective is to engage and see if we can find a better solution to the challenge before us
Tomorrow I am doing a coc.
Place was built 3 years ago.
I am thinking what if plugs are still old school type without euro?
Do I tell seller I need to change every single plug. Will tell me to get lost.
What date EXACTLY did these plugs come into effect?
With regards to the date it came into effect - it could be close to the 3 years depending on when the contractor signed the contract to carry out the electrical installation.
In a Townhouse complex or development of an area it could be an extra couple of years prior , if that makes sense
Extract pasted below
Hopefully you are not signing off a new build in Fairview or Parson vlei as the socket outlets will be the least of your problems
Because this part of SANS 10142 is continually updated, problems can arise
on which version of the standard will be applicable when a contract is
signed. The date of approval of the latest revision or amendment of this part
of SANS 10142 will be the implementation date of the revision or the
amendment. The applicable version of this part of SANS 10142 is the one
with the latest implementation date before the contract date. So contracts
signed before the approval of an amendment shall be carried out in
accordance with the provisions of the unamended standard. If an existing
installation is extended or altered, such extension or alteration shall comply
with the provisions of this part of SANS 10142 that were applicable at the
time of the erection of the extension or alteration
This document was approved for publication in March 2017.
This document supersedes SANS 10142-1:2012 (edition 1.8).
Compliance with this document cannot confer immunity from legal
obligations.
The test report in edition 1.8 may be used in parallel with the test report in
edition 2.0 for a period of 12 months from the date of publication of edition
2.0.
6.15.1.1.1 Except where otherwise specified in this part of SANS 10142,
single-phase socket-outlets for general use (see also 6.14.1.4) shall
a) be of the two-pole and earthing contact type,
b) comply with SANS 164-0,
c) effective from January 2018 all socket-outlet points for new electrical
installations shall include at least one socket-outlet complying with the
dimensions of SANS 164-2. Socket-outlets points may also include
socket-outlets complying with the dimentions of SANS 164-1.
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