solar systems

[AndyD]

The massive solar uptake in the UK and Europe was artificially driven by hand outs in the form of feed in tariffs which made the payback time 4 or 5 years. The SA government has no political will or money to offer those types of subsidies or do the necessary network upgrades to handle mass domestic PV feed-in. Add to this that in SA anyone installing solar would want to include a large li-ion battery bank it just means that financially for most people it doesn't make sense and the only reason that most people in SA would install solar is to negate the inconvenience of loadshedding.

[adrianh]

Only way i see solar being viable is to cook on gas, gas geyser

We did the math - it doesn't make sense. The suppliers exploit the situation to such a degree that you are better off just buying a small Air-Fryer and not using a stove. That said - Stoves are a huge waste of money. Nothing beats a cheap hotplate and a small air-fryer.

[tec0]

The massive solar uptake in the UK and Europe was artificially driven by hand outs in the form of feed in tariffs which made the payback time 4 or 5 years. The SA government has no political will or money to offer those types of subsidies or do the necessary network upgrades to handle mass domestic PV feed-in. Add to this that in SA anyone installing solar would want to include a large li-ion battery bank it just means that financially for most people it doesn't make sense and the only reason that most people in SA would install solar is to negate the inconvenience of loadshedding.

Here is the truth, Eskom isn't to large to fail the problem is South Africa cannot exist without Eskom. Like it or not without Eskom we have no infrastructure or industry. Near 100% of all work is possible because Eskom exist. Food storage, water treatment plants and hospitals are some examples of how dependent we are. Solar can only do so much and really look at a 2Mwatt solar system. It is huge and every aspect of it isn't serviceable it is only replaceable. Meaning it WILL generate massive amounts of waste.

On large scale mechanical power storage solutions maybe a better solution as these can be serviced and maintained.

Li-ion batteries are a BIG problem when it comes to cost and waste. I decided gel batteries are better bet and honestly for the most part it worked. But suddenly gel batteries doubled in price and i cannot really understand why this is. People blame the rand dollar and even the pandemic but honestly... yea... Then there is this New South African Lithium-Ion Cell Mega-Factory, Plans For 32 GWh/Year By 2028 i am not 100% sure about this as well.

So what do i know? Running a generator is expensive, Solar is expensive and it is not sustainable nor is it truly clean energy.

So what will work? A combination of power generation via solar, grid power and fuel generators. But most importantly is to reconsider how power is used in the office or home. See I personally spend a lot of time and money getting devices that uses very little power for what they do and it wasn't easy BUT my entire house now use between 250 and 500 watts per hour "without cooking or geyser". This means my power bill is not that bad but more importantly my generator and my solar together with my 2400VA Trolley Inverters 1 for my fridge and 1 for my freezer can handle prolonged power outs that we get here.

I have a little Sunbeam - Professional Convection Oven that draws a maximum of 1300 watts of power. It took me a while to learn how to use it properly but now that i know this little device inside and out i love it and will almost never need to use my oven unless i feel like baking. This little product from Sunbeam can run on my 7.5Kw Generator with ease. So no You don't just have gas ovens as a option.

But all of this said i promise you if Eskom sinks we sink with it... Solar will not save us, only nuclear can and everyone here knows it.

All i am saying is adding sun power to your home doesn't make it sustainable. You have to really consider what your devices do and how much power they use.

[Justloadit]

By using power saving devices, and by using solar hybrid systems, it does lesson the burden on the ESKOM supply. This does help a little bit, but the problem is that industry does not work like that, it needs big power,think of your smelters, injection molding machines, ovens and other industrial equipment to create products, which in turn employ people.

So any way you turn it, we need big power if we want to reduce employment. The main problem is that it takes 7 years to build a new power station, provided all runs smoothly, so on a best case scenario, 7 years before power is stabalized.
But I am quite sure the lack of skilled employees and the unions will put a spanner in the works, so we are looking at a longer time of this load shedding.

[adrianh]

By using power saving devices, and by using solar hybrid systems, it does lesson the burden on the ESKOM supply. This does help a little bit, but the problem is that industry does not work like that, it needs big power,think of your smelters, injection molding machines, ovens and other industrial equipment to create products, which in turn employ people.

So any way you turn it, we need big power if we want to reduce employment. The main problem is that it takes 7 years to build a new power station, provided all runs smoothly, so on a best case scenario, 7 years before power is stabalized.
But I am quite sure the lack of skilled employees and the unions will put a spanner in the works, so we are looking at a longer time of this load shedding.

Watch this "sideways" documentary about the American power grid. The documentary highlights issues that people don't think about when they get all hyped up about solar energy. Like you said - "It does not work that way"

The Power Grid: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBpiXcyB7wU

[Derlyn]

You did mention "sideways" ........ I managed to get to the part about where snakes live outside and then I could take that idiot, who thinks he is the funniest man alive, no more. Cannot imagine having to spend 20 minutes listening to him and the canned laughing. It's torture !

Peace out .. Derek

[adrianh]

[Derlyn]

Yep. This wise man rather watched a bit of Tucker Carlson. What was the imbecile up to ?

Back to the topic.

Solar is a nice to have and falls way down on my list of priorities.
Having any form of electricity or power is 4th on my list.

I think survival, not luxury. My in-laws were without electricity or solar until they were about 65 years of age. Then I paid labola and electrified their house. My mother in law was very happy but the old man complained like hell. After all the years he now had to go out and buy a new fridge, stove, tv and everything else that worked with electricity. He was fuming !

I am amazed at how many people have solar panels on the roof, but not a rain water harvesting tank in sight. Solar ain't gonna help any if you got no water. Do not take water for granted. Make a plan.

BTW food is my 2nd priority after water. ( have about 9 months worth stored )

Peace out ... Derek

[Dave A]

The crux pointed to in the John Oliver show is the issue of getting additional power transmission lines installed from areas best suited for PV capture to the areas that are consuming the power.

Locally, I can (and will) install rooftop PV panels at home here in Durban. The reality though is that it will never produce as much power as the same array of panels will installed in the Karoo, or on the Highveld, or even KZN Midlands area. Durban has a constant humidity haze even on the "clearest" of days and a heck of a lot more cloudy days than most other parts of the country which massively hampers what sun energy is available to be captured per square meter per year.

[Derlyn]

The crux pointed to in the John Oliver show is the issue of getting additional power transmission lines installed from areas best suited for PV capture to the areas that are consuming the power.

On paper and theoretically it should work. Just a small area of desert in North Africa can supply the energy needs of the whole world.
Practically, though, in the long run, it does not work having to transport power over long distances. It has been tried and has failed due to a number of factors not taken into account when doing the planning.

All can be seen in the following video. No canned laughing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o

Peace out ... Derek.

[tec0]

By using power saving devices, and by using solar hybrid systems, it does lesson the burden on the ESKOM supply. This does help a little bit, but the problem is that industry does not work like that, it needs big power,think of your smelters, injection molding machines, ovens and other industrial equipment to create products, which in turn employ people.

So any way you turn it, we need big power if we want to reduce employment. The main problem is that it takes 7 years to build a new power station, provided all runs smoothly, so on a best case scenario, 7 years before power is stabalized.
But I am quite sure the lack of skilled employees and the unions will put a spanner in the works, so we are looking at a longer time of this load shedding.

In the end everyone knows nuclear is the answer "for now" until other technologies can evolve to the point that it can truly replace nuclear power. Heavy industry will always need heavy power this much is obvious. building nuclear power plants is a answer to our problems now. BUT it may create more problems in future especially if maintenance is neglected and sadly that IS what is causing our current problems so the chances that history will repeat itself is very good. The only problem is nuclear plants infrastructure may not handle neglect that well and this can be catastrophic. Also the waste needs to be handled properly and this must also done with great care.
So is the solution solar ?

No...

See at this point not even privatization can save Eskom anymore... Eskom need to seriously reconsider HOW power generation is done, what companies they appoint for maintenance and keep them responsible. Ask yourself what company is at every single outage, and why is it that every critical system they work on doesn't come back 100% but rather it returns in as "within toleration margin level" ?

Now those of you who are in the "know" knows exactly what i am pointing at and if you are in the "know" you know what company need to be looked at... Because "toleration margin" != fixed

[adrianh]

Eskom reminds me of Zambia. Everything is derelict and there is nobody left with the knowledge or know how maintain and expand the existing infrastructure. Each new CEO simply adds a new layer of incompetence on top of the old.

Its like an old car - the mechanics simply no longer understand how to work with points and a distributor so they buy an xbox from their cousin at 100x the actual price and fit it to the engine...with disastrous results that they don't understand.

Eskom is fxcked because everything they do is insider traded thus morons with political connections get contracts instead of competent service providers. ESKOM and its nonsense is a function of a corrupt government - you can't fix a broken school while the school board are selling the desks out the back door.

[adrianh]

This documentary about large scale solar farms is really interesting.


The Problem with Solar Energy in Africa ~Real Engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o

[Derlyn]

This documentary about large scale solar farms is really interesting.


The Problem with Solar Energy in Africa ~Real Engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o

Yep. Very interesting.
Same video I posted yesterday, BTW.

Peace out ... Derek

[tec0]

This documentary about large scale solar farms is really interesting.


The Problem with Solar Energy in Africa ~Real Engineering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OpM_zKGE4o

Watched this and yea there is a lot to say about stability and cost. But in the end no country will truly develop Africa for the sake of Africa and then the world. The problem is the world cannot continuously defend their investments and infrastructure. For this to work we need peace and we all know it is not going to happen any time soon.

But I am wondering what plastic they use to make batteries? I always thought the acid mixture would eat away at some plastics. Turns out that some plastics can actually easily resist some types of acid. But still would be cool to know what plastic is used in batteries.

But in my opinion Solar "if used right" can change the world BUT we need to look at mechanical batteries that can use DC power to spin them up but can output AC to the grid without using complicated inverter systems. That will greatly increase adoption of this technology. AC needs 3000RPM to give us 50hz This means it can pump power directly to the grid rather then being stored and inverted. Once proper thought is given you realize how really powerful a mechanical battery can be IF used properly it will change the solar game.

But if you look at power storage for Mwh... i wouldn't consider a chemical process. A proven mechanical battery is great at its job and it cuts out the "inverter" side of things allowing us to "store" essentially AC rather then DC. Think about that...