Light fittings and earth wires

[ians]

I found a thread back in 2015 where this subject was discussed ... but there is no solution and as we know the rules have been changing by the week/month year to make a quick R1000 a pop

I am busy with another "test report" ...

found no earth wires on a metal light fitting with a brass holder ... it should be earthed (mounted at 2.2 m AFFL)

A bunch of metal fittings with porcelain holders mounted 3.5 m in the air ... this could get interesting ... as per I comment I read "older installations require an inspector be a little more flexible with the regs" (cant remember where I read it ... could have been the ECA website) ... the fittings were installed a long time ago.

A bunch of ceiling fans ... with porcelain lamp holders ... a ceiling fan being a fixed appliance but doesnt form part of the electrical installation ... it could explain why the person who installed them didnt feel the need to connect them at the time of installation ( 20 years ago)

From what I can last recall ... if a luminaire has a plastic lamp holder ... the fitting doesn't need to be earthed.

If it has a brass lamp holder ... an earth is required.

Throw in an older installation ... fixed appliances ... and light fittings out of arms reach ... this is a subject that some may see as a grey area.

[ians]

Which reminds me I still havent been able to find a place to register as an electrical contractor with the DOL ... it seems everyone is still closed until the 10th ... so I am sure nobody will be worried about my registration until after the 10th ... I am thinking about creating my own 2 page COC and just using the numbers from the pile of 4 page COC's.

It is a legal document ... I dont see why I cant use the number on the document ... its is not like I am making up a number ... I paid for the documents and they are registered to my name.

and you can get online COC which would be printed on a white document ... so the yellow COC is no longer an issue.

[Dylboy]

My view on older installations is that is bascially meets "generally safe" pretty much meets all of chapter 5.

As for your CoC page thing I believe I read a comment of a person who they make their own CoC on the computer. I assume they just buy a pack of yellow papers and use the numbers as you suggest. I feel it is fine as then also you can have your own digital copy and have much nicer notes and spacing and all that.

I reckon could ask the ECA if you can and I reckon they will say no as to only push you to sign up and use their system so with that said I have no idea who else to ask if you can so then I reckon can do so...

Maybe check chapter 8 and the Electircal installtion law thing and see if maybe something their prohibits it but if their is an online version then I feel their is no law prohibiting it as long as all the info is there as a like for like. Once more this is all my opinion but I do like what you thinking

In the UK they have it all on their ipads and laptops...

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[GCE]

I am thinking about creating my own 2 page COC and just using the numbers from the pile of 4 page COC's.

It is a legal document ... I dont see why I cant use the number on the document ... its is not like I am making up a number ... I paid for the documents and they are registered to my name.

and you can get online COC which would be printed on a white document ... so the yellow COC is no longer an issue.

In attempting to answer the above it may be better to ask the question
OHSA has a definition of a COC which I have pasted below.

Is the coc unique number obtained from the chief inspector ? - As far as I am aware we cannot get the number from the chief inspector.
Has the Chief inspector appointed a person or body to issue unique numbers ? - I have not seen any gazette or instruction come from the chief inspector with an appointment .

If the above 2 answers are correct , which I am putting out there for correction , what stops me from creating my own unique number ?



"certificate of compliance" means
(a) a certificate with a unique number obtainable from the chief inspector, or a person appointed by the chief inspector, in the form of Annexure 1 J and issued by a registered person in respect of an electrical installation or part of an electrical installation; or
(b) a certificate of compliance issued under the Electrical Installation Regulations, 1992;

[ians]

That is why I thought rather than going an purchasing another pile of COC's ... why not just use the old 4 page COC unique number ... I purchased and paid for them.

If you can issue and online COC which could be any colour paper you want to print ... white ... yellow ... blue ... green.

So if I create a2 page Xl document that looks like a COC with the number from the original 4 page COC.

If its round and stubby and looks like shyte ... smells like shyte it must be shyte (it may not be brown) ... same as the COC if it looks like a COC has a unique number issued by the chief inspector ... and has all the relvant data and some ... it "could" be a valid COC ... (highlighting the could be ) we all know even if it is yellow ... has a unique number issued by the chief inspector ... has a registered contractors details and even a registered persons details ... doesnt make valid

[ians]

Maybe all you need is annexure 1 ... the test report could be made up of multiple pages ... the more the better ... it just means the inspector actually carried out the tests and recorded them.

"certificate of compliance" means
(a) a certificate with a unique number obtainable from the chief inspector, or a person appointed by the chief inspector, in the form of Annexure 1 J and issued by a registered person in respect of an electrical installation or part of an electrical installation; or
(b) a certificate of compliance issued under the Electrical Installation Regulations, 1992;

[ians]

I have just completed a test report (5 bedroom house) ... it took 3 days to complete ... including all the repairs ... it has 8 pages excluding Annexure1 and all the before and after photos.

[GCE]

... has a unique number issued by the chief inspector ... (

Where did you get the unique number issue by the chief inspector ?

[ians]

Where did you get the unique number issue by the chief inspector ?

Let me rephrase that ... I dont have a "unique number" ... the pile of 4 pages COC's each have a number ... which I am asumming you refer to as the "unique" number.

Its the certificate no. B XXXXXX

What I wan to do is use that number BXXXXXX on an XL document which looks just like a 2 page COC ... then print it to PDF and send it as the original or supplementary COC ... then file the 4 page yellow with the PDF that I send.

That way I have my own online COC ... considering the ECA dont want to share to non members ... so maybe just make my own ... just better.

[GCE]

Let me rephrase that ... I dont have a "unique number" ... the pile of 4 pages COC's each have a number ... which I am asumming you refer to as the "unique" number.

Its the certificate no. B XXXXXX

What I wan to do is use that number BXXXXXX on an XL document which looks just like a 2 page COC ... then print it to PDF and send it as the original or supplementary COC ... then file the 4 page yellow with the PDF that I send.

That way I have my own online COC ... considering the ECA dont want to share to non members ... so maybe just make my own ... just better.

The way I see it - You can make your own unique number as there is no single entity that is actually authorized to issue unique numbers and the various organizations that are suppling COC are making up there own set of numbers that are not linked back to the Chief Inspector .
I am open to correction

[ians]

I cant see how each organisation is creating their own numbers ... it is suppose to be a legal document ... I could then just use the same number for all the COC's we issue.

Imagine going to court and the judge says Mr sparkie with reference to your COC BXXXXXX we find you been a naughty boy ... then I turn around and say but thats not my number someone might have copied it.

I am assuming every COC sold to inspectors ... has some form of record of who purchased that range of BXXXXXX numbers ... the pile of 4 page COC's I purchased many years ago must have some record of me purchasing them.

If they are not well then this industry has a serious problem.

The fact that this is being discussed on this forum indicates how big a problem it has become.

The way it should work ... I have another unhappy customer ... simple ... I log onto the DOL COC register (as a licensed registered electrical contractor)... search the property address and bingo all copies of COC's issued for that property from the first one every issued ... including any new COC's issued since the original if the property was sold and any supplementary COC's issued for additions and alterations.

I know we live in a 3 rd world country ... but we have the technology and the ability to setup a system like this.

[ians]

People are going to say some people cant afford the equipment or data to run an online system ... bullshyte ... what does it cost to become an inspector ... how did you pay all those expenses?

To make even more legit ... the location where the online COC is being done would reduce the office inspectors dishing out COC's from a different province

[Derlyn]

I know we live in a 3 rd world country ... but we have the technology and the ability to setup a system like this.

We cannot even print drivers licences at the moment.

Peace out ... Derek Stuart

[ians]

Tried to contact the DOL and the ECA to renew my registration ... it seems everyone is still on holiday

[GCE]

I am assuming every COC sold to inspectors ... has some form of record of who purchased that range of BXXXXXX numbers ... the pile of 4 page COC's I purchased many years ago must have some record of me purchasing them.

If they are not well then this industry has a serious problem.

The fact that this is being discussed on this forum indicates how big a problem it has become.

The way it should work ... I have another unhappy customer ... simple ... I log onto the DOL COC register (as a licensed registered electrical contractor)... search the property address and bingo all copies of COC's issued for that property from the first one every issued ... including any new COC's issued since the original if the property was sold and any supplementary COC's issued for additions and alterations.

I know we live in a 3 rd world country ... but we have the technology and the ability to setup a system like this.

Originally that was the intention and the debate started around the costs involved. The debate went further when different organizations started lobbying to be that organization that controlled it - The one organazition that no longer exists made a statement that if you belong to them, then they would " protect you" before any action could be taken against you.
Probably the reason that the department kind of scrapped the idea and has tried a couple of different ideas that have yet to take hold.
There was talk of having to buy each COC at say R200.00 ( going back 10 /15 years) each , which would then fund the independent organization to run with it and carry out random inspections. This sounded good on paper but not practical.

Practically - paying R200 over and above the installation of light point was excessive vs a coc for say a warehouse which would be insignificant money .
Then the idea came up of R 100 per 80Amps on the rated incomer. Also a problem - I do a socket for a factory owner at home and charge him 500 for the socket and 100 for the COC - Then go to his factory and install a socket, R 500 for socket and R 2 000.00 for COC . Think he would flip out.

The OHSA electrical regulations are due for some changes this year , I've heard , which may bring along some changes in the way things are done , hopefully for the best and not the normal SA way that the good get policed and the bad continue as normal.