Identification of staff and their skill level on site

[ians]

The question is simple are all skilled and semi skilled electrical staff required to display or at least carry some form of identification while working on site ... yes or no ?

If the company is registered with the ECA or the ECB or all registered electrical companies ?

[GCE]

There is no regulation that I am aware of that requires you to carry your qualifications with you .

There is a H&S requirement to have a ID and proof of competency in your H&S file on site.

There could be companies that enforce competency ID type system to be on your person while on site .

[ians]

So the information from the ECA was in fact incorrect?

Electrical contractors "do not" have to produce identification with relevant skill levels while working on site.

IF this statement is correct, a customer must just assume the people working on site are all electricians?

If I arrive on site with a piece of cardboard with "electrician" written on the cardboard, the customer as "the responsible person" can assume I am qualified to carry out the level of work I am doing.

We wonder why this industry is screwed

[ians]

We need to clear up a few details:

Working on industrial sites, you will not even get onto a site unless you have completed a safety induction course and submitted all your documentation including a safety file with details of every single aspect of the work to be completed.

Commercial, industrial and even large domestic construction sites would also required a safety file, which would have all the documentation required for working on site.

My concern is the sites which dont have safety officers and gate security and induction requirements.

[ians]

For the record, a site like RBM could take up to 5 days of induction courses before work can commence ... if we going to that level ... then you need to make sure your staff medicals are submitted and your equipment is checked to make sure they meet the safety standards of the site.

Ladders cant be used if working higher than a specified height ... scaffold must be built and certified.

Down to what you would think were silly rules ... wearing safety glasses if you open the window of the vehicle you are travelling while on site.

It goes on and on and on.

Lets focus on the part of the industry which affects the "general public" ... The "responsible person" who generally would has no idea about H&S (health and safety for those who dont know) and who in all cases I have encountered are not even aware of their responsibility .. due to the lack of public awareness from the industry and people who have enforced the law.

A good example would be inspection reports ... how do you as the general public know that the person who arrives to carry out the inspection report and test is qualified to do the inspection report ... how would you know if it was just an eleconop 2 sent to do the inspection report ?

[Dave A]

A good example would be inspection reports ... how do you as the general public know that the person who arrives to carry out the inspection report and test is qualified to do the inspection report ... how would you know if it was just an eleconop 2 sent to do the inspection report ?

My experience is that most registered persons (Single phase tester, IE and MIE) carry their DoL registration card with them all the time. Being credit card sized (or thereabouts) does make it pretty easy.

Carrying around one's trade qualification certificate on one's person is a rather different issue.

[GCE]

So the information from the ECA was in fact incorrect?

Electrical contractors "do not" have to produce identification with relevant skill levels while working on site.

IF this statement is correct, a customer must just assume the people working on site are all electricians?

If I arrive on site with a piece of cardboard with "electrician" written on the cardboard, the customer as "the responsible person" can assume I am qualified to carry out the level of work I am doing.

We wonder why this industry is screwed

If the client asks you to produce a copy of your contractors license and your actual qualifications before you allowed to start work then that is their right and they should be doing that.
The majority/all tenders insist on the relevant license documents to be attached otherwise it will not be considered.

It is gazette ( extract pasted below) that the user shall ensure the correctly qualified people are used - Where the user says he is not qualified sufficiently to make the decision does not hold water as he is not a qualified motor mechanic yet he gets fined if his car is not roadworthy and in an accident he does not get paid out by insurance if the vehicle is not roadworthy

Insurance and lawyers have twigged to this and are starting to actively insist within the COC market , one being that some insurance companies are insisting on a 10 Million public liability policy to be in place before accepting a COC.

Last week I was asked to help out an attorney with a house sale in an upmarket area with an invalid COC and a list of 500K to rectify. Sounds like there are other issues as well .
I send through clause 22 - They are looking to see if they can scrap the sale based on the clause and then the seller will take the supposed electrical contractor on and sue for damages.
I believe it is in the process of being tested in the courts -
It could get interesting and expensive for the contractor and if the owner did not check the qualifications ,it could become his expensive problem. If the estate agent gave the name/recommendation to the seller for the COC, then the agent could also be dragged in.


From the OHSA Electrical Installation regulations
Responsibility for electrical installations
2. (1) Subject to subregulation (3), the user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety, safe use and maintenance of the electrical installation he or she uses or leases.
(2) The user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall be responsible for the safety of the conductors on his or her premises connecting the electrical installation to the point of supply in the case where the point of supply is not the point of control.


Extract from OHSA
Clause 22 - Sale of certain articles prohibited
Subject to the provisions of section 10 (4), if any requirement (including any health and safety standard) in respect of any article, substance, plant, machinery or health and safety equipment or for the use or application thereof has been prescribed, no person shall sell or market in any manner whatsoever such article, substance, plant, machinery or health and safety equipment unless it complies with that requirement.

[ians]

We need to try clean up this industry and it seems the only way to do it ... to create public awareness.

This platform is a good start ... my posts may come across as arrogant ... however it is not my intention ... I am dealing with these issues on a daily basis ... tired of listening to the bullshyte some companies think they can throw at customers.

Stupid things like the PVC extension box screwed to a metal box and no earth wire ... when you contact the company and ask them about it ... they make out like I am customer with no idea what I am talking about ... then I send a picture and warn the owner that I have a copy of his invoice and pictures ... which will be forwarded to the AIA ... suddenly the attitude changes.

Let this be a warning to people using recommendations on groups be it Facebook or WhatsApp ... I am finding these 2 platforms are produced the most dodgy contractors ... people just assume they are getting a legit contractor ... it is actually quite the opposite ... it seems buddies are looking after buddies.

This thread shouldnt be taken with a pinch of salt ... I would strongly advice that you take my advice and request skill levels of the people working on your site.

maybe we can assist by sharing the each skill level can do according to the industrial council/DOL ... so that when a team is dropped off ... at least the customer can learn what to expect from each skill level.

[ians]

Another example why using buddies ... buddies to do work ... I have a situation where a so called "electrician" has done some major alterations on a commercial site ... from what I have seen ... it seems the teams left on site to split circuits and fit prepaid meters etc etc didnt have the knowledge or experience to do what was required ... which has now resulted in us finding that circuit are connected between units ... so the customers cant understand why the prepaid is so expensive ... its not the vender services fees ... its actually the commercial appliances in the other shops consuming their power

The standard of workmanship is like the approved products sold in SA ... just as bad.

Today I had to travel even further and I took note of all the new developments ... high end units ... shopping centres etc ... thousands of units ... I wonder where they are going to find skilled people to do the installations ?

Chatting to someone about some of the units ... starting price for a small 3 bedroom unit ... R4-5M ... wired using some cheap crappy plastic DB ... with twin+e thrown in the slab ... eeeesish.