Electrical compliance companies

[markthespark]

Is it legal for a compliance certificate to be signed off by a certified person even though that individual has not visited the site at all?

[Leecatt]

My gut reaction is no for the following reason
The electrical regulations, section 9, part 2
"9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance. (2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that (a) a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or (b) an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or (c) an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that (i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and
(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control"

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[GCE]

Is it legal for a compliance certificate to be signed off by a certified person even though that individual has not visited the site at all?

I do not believe that a COC can be issued unless the registered person himself has tested and inspected the installation which to me would mean that he needs to be present on site - It is written up as such in the OHSA and I have pasted it below .
Would like to know how anybody see's it differently


Extract from the OHSA Electrical Installation Regulations March 2009
Issuing of certificate of compliance
9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that
(a)
a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
(b)
an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c)
an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and
(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.

[Derlyn]

2 entities sign declarations on the COC.

1. Registered person
2. Electrical contractor

The declaration by registered person on the COC itself answers the question 100%.

It reads:

I ............................................ (ID No:........................................... a registered person, declare that I have personally carried out the inspection
and testing of the electrical installation described in the attached test report.

The above declaration speaks for itself as far as the registered person is concerned,

However

The electrical contractor who signs the declaration by the electrical contractor can do so without having been to site as long as the inspection
and testing was carried out and signed for by a registered person.

The registered person and electrical contractor do not have to be the same person.

That's my 2 cents worth, but I will probably be proven wrong again.

[markthespark]

I worked for a well known compliance company for about 16 months and although I did the inspections the repair team would do the repairs and a certified manager signed off the cocs from the office
He never saw the site unless there were queries.

[Derlyn]

I worked for a well known compliance company for about 16 months and although I did the inspections the repair team would do the repairs and a certified manager signed off the cocs from the office
He never saw the site unless there were queries.

If you signed all the COC's as the registered person, then all's good.
If the certified manager signed the registered person section without doing the testing himself, then he, in my opinion, has committed fraud.

The same person cannot sign both declarations on the COC if such person has not been on site to do the inspection and testing.

[markthespark]

I never signed off on a certificate the whole time I was there. I also feel that the way they operate is illegal. And I feel that they are taking away opportunities from smaller companies because they"hog" the industry.

[Derlyn]

I never signed off on a certificate the whole time I was there. I also feel that the way they operate is illegal. And I feel that they are taking away opportunities from smaller companies because they"hog" the industry.

Check your private messages.

[Firepool]

I worked for a well known compliance company for about 16 months and although I did the inspections the repair team would do the repairs and a certified manager signed off the cocs from the office
He never saw the site unless there were queries.

Only thing is right you never going to be a compliance company with any scale if you do it any other way.The compliance companies do say about 200 a month.This is a factor of the property transfer market.If they dont do it that way the cost of the coc will triple if you have the licensed wireman having to do every test.I am not saying they dont go to site and check -just the testing.You trying to run a business

[GCE]

Only thing is right you never going to be a compliance company with any scale if you do it any other way.The compliance companies do say about 200 a month.This is a factor of the property transfer market.If they dont do it that way the cost of the coc will triple if you have the licensed wireman having to do every test.I am not saying they dont go to site and check -just the testing.You trying to run a business

It is illegal according to the OHSA to sign the COC unless " No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance." is complied to.
To justify the transgression due to cost would never stand in a court of law.

Is a doctor going to let his nurse operate and remove your kidney because it will work out cheaper for you ? Would you even take that risk as the patient.

Why do Electrical contractors always try to undermine themselves and put there businesses at risk to save the client money.

Do the job correctly and according to the laws of the country and charge a fair price .

[Firepool]

It is illegal according to the OHSA to sign the COC unless " No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance." is complied to.
To justify the transgression due to cost would never stand in a court of law.

Is a doctor going to let his nurse operate and remove your kidney because it will work out cheaper for you ? Would you even take that risk as the patient.

Why do Electrical contractors always try to undermine themselves and put there businesses at risk to save the client money.

Do the job correctly and according to the laws of the country and charge a fair price .

The registered wireman goes to site but highly unlikely will do the tests himself.
The problem in sa is if you follow the law you might not get work as you too expensive .What are the benefits of paying bargaining council and vat compared to a single licensed wireman in a bakkie?

[GCE]

The registered wireman goes to site but highly unlikely will do the tests himself.
The problem in sa is if you follow the law you might not get work as you too expensive .What are the benefits of paying bargaining council and vat compared to a single licensed wireman in a bakkie?

Then you are no different to the illegal contractor that operates without being licensed and has the audacity to call himself legitimate

[Dave A]

The registered wireman goes to site but highly unlikely will do the tests himself.

I don't understand this statement. If the registered wireman is at the site, why wouldn't they do the tests themselves?

[Dylboy]

They would not do it as they have someone under them and they just say go do the Recc at each point and do the tests and let me know... I'll be in the bakkie or having a coffee with the client...

That is part of the experience I have had in the past.

Also a wireman generally owns a company and would have staff... he would let the staff do the work. You don't see the owner of discovery doing the day to day work. He overseas it all. A bit of a differnet situation but still the point of the owner does not always do everything.

I do believe that the registered person can give a written statement giving person X signing powers, how ever I have not looked into it.

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[Isetech]

I don't understand this statement. If the registered wireman is at the site, why wouldn't they do the tests themselves?

Because in most cases we have skilled and semi skilled who are working under our supervision.