[Question] Garden ground lights tripping earth leakage

[Movo]

Hi All

Could really use some advise. Lets paint my situation. I recently had my 220v garden ground lights replaced by an electrician due to the previous lights not working from corrosion and tripping the earth leakage. There are 3 outdoor ground lights in total. These light are also connected to 5 outdoor wall lights. All the lights are fed through a normal plug outlet in my garage. The ground lights were disconnected from the wall lights due to the tripping issue.

After the electrician installed the new ground lights everything worked fine but then after the first rain the lights tripped the earth leakage. The ground lights were encased in concrete and he initially used the original wiring for the ground light. He came back and changed out the cable for the ground light using surfix from flat twin and earth. He also used a waterproof connector for the surfix to ground light cable. The next time it rained it tripped again and I had to disconnect the ground lights again from the wall outside lights.

He now wants to come back and move the feed from the socket outlet in the garage to a light switch that is not on earth leakage.

My question is:

Is it safe to have 220v outdoor ground lights on the light circuit that is not on earth leakage?
If there was a puddle over these ground lights wont i get electrocuted due to the current issue?
Should he not fix the fault that's causing the earth to trip. All the other outdoor lights are fine even in the rain, it's only when the ground lights are connected and it rains then it trips earth.

Thank you very much

[Andrew_van_Zyl]

In my limited experience I would strongly advise against taking any circuit off earth leakage. The tripping is an indication of a problem. I suggest testing the lights one by one and by a process of elimination you will find the culprit. I've seen too many faulty circuits miraculously fixed by simply taking them off earth leakage.

[Movo]

In my limited experience I would strongly advise against taking any circuit off earth leakage. The tripping is an indication of a problem. I suggest testing the lights one by one and by a process of elimination you will find the culprit. I've seen too many faulty circuits miraculously fixed by simply taking them off earth leakage.

I think i know which one it is, one of the light has some condensation inside. Before they installed these new ground lights, i asked them to make 100% sure that the lights are waterproof.

It puzzles me why a licensed electrician would take a shortcut to put these light off earth leakage. Would this pass coc if it had to be done?

[Derlyn]

Lights do NOT need to be on earth leakage.

Plug socket outlets and water heaters must be on earth leakage.

[Isetech]

Lights do NOT need to be on earth leakage.

Plug socket outlets and water heaters must be on earth leakage.

Something to consider, outside lights sometimes require a little trenching.

[Derlyn]

Doesn't matter. I'm going by the book.
Unless there are ceiling fans involved, luminaires do not need to be on earth leakage.

The poster is trying to fault the electrician for wanting to connect the lights to the lighting circuit. Nothing illegal doing that.

[Derlyn]

All the other outdoor lights are fine even in the rain, it's only when the ground lights are connected and it rains then it trips earth.

Thank you very much

That's probably because all the "other" outdoor lights are not on earth leakage. Nothing illegal or wrong with that.

[Movo]

That's probably because all the "other" outdoor lights are not on earth leakage. Nothing illegal or wrong with that.

If you read the post, i said that ALL the outdoor lights are connected on the same plug and did not trip prior. Im not trying to fault anyone, these are ground lights that are directly infront of my garage. I dont want myself or my kids to get electrocuted.

In some countries outdoor lights have to be on a RCD. I want to know if what he is doing is safe not accepted practice. Based on the 1st response i got, i thought he was taking a shorcut, can anyone else confirm becase what i got now is 2 opposing views

[Dave A]

In some countries outdoor lights have to be on a RCD. I want to know if what he is doing is safe not accepted practice. Based on the 1st response i got, i thought he was taking a shorcut, can anyone else confirm becase what i got now is 2 opposing views

Derlyn is correct in that South African standards allow luminaires to not be on RCD/earth leakage protection. From a safety point of view, what will be critical is that any exposed conductive surface (any exposed metal part) is adequately earthed. That way, even if there is a full short between live and the conductive part, there will be sufficient current to trip the overcurrent protection without the part being at an unsafe potential voltage.

[GCE]

If you read the post, i said that ALL the outdoor lights are connected on the same plug and did not trip prior. Im not trying to fault anyone, these are ground lights that are directly infront of my garage. I dont want myself or my kids to get electrocuted.

In some countries outdoor lights have to be on a RCD. I want to know if what he is doing is safe not accepted practice. Based on the 1st response i got, i thought he was taking a shorcut, can anyone else confirm becase what i got now is 2 opposing views

I agree that the lights do not need to be on Earth Leakage .

You talk ground lights - Are these the buried type that shine up ?
Is it a sealed unit ? can you post a pic

[Movo]

I agree that the lights do not need to be on Earth Leakage .

You talk ground lights - Are these the buried type that shine up ?
Is it a sealed unit ? can you post a pic

Thanks for the feedback all. I asked for lights that are waterproof due the old lights having water in them, corrosion and tripping but these can be opened to change the bulb

These lights are brand new and the old lights that these replaced were identical.

For now they are disconnected from the outdoor light circuit. The other lights are on the walls and those are fine. Its only these in ground lights that trip when reconnected.

[GCE]

It would appear that the lights are getting moisture in them

We have found that they only way to keep moisture out of them is to use silicone paste, not silicone sealer, on the rubber seals and gland seals - The paste to rubber is like Dubbin to leather
Silicone sealer tends to shrink when it gets cold and allows water to stream in.

The 2nd thing that needs to be done is to excavate a hole the size of a 5 litre paint can or bigger, depending on the soil, below the uplighters and fill with coarse stone and then fit the uplighters. This allows for any water to soak away and not sit around the light fitting. When a light is on it gets warm and as soon as it is switched off it cools down and sucks water in , how or where is always a mystery - The stone trick generally works but if the soil has a lot of clay you always run the risk of getting water into the fitting .The only way is to have drainage to keep the fittings out of a " pool " of water from underneath.

The look the fittings give in lighting up is always aesthetically pleasing but from a practical point of view a nightmare for installation

[Movo]

Thank you for the advise, I will definitely use this

[Isetech]

Talking about earth leakage, lights, wiring to the lights, installations methods, etc.


6.4.4 Buried cables
6.4.4.1 Unarmoured cables may be buried if they are insulated and sheathed.
If unarmoured insulated cables are buried at a depth of
a) less than 0,5 m, they shall be enclosed in conduit or otherwise
mechanically protected (for example, in the case of paving or concrete)
(see also 6.5), or protected by an earth leakage protection device with a
rated earth leakage tripping current (rated residual current) IΔn not
exceeding 30 mA, or

[Justloadit]

Maybe change the lamps from 230V to 12V and use a transformer at source of the incoming supply.
In this way the moisture issue will not cause the ELU to trip, and 12V as a lower voltage will reduce any residual current flow due to the moisture in the fitting.
Granted a good installation is still recommend to maintain a longer life of the fittings to keep as much water out as possible.