Socket outlet on cabtyre flex.

[Derlyn]

Hi All

Sitting with a situation.

A socket outlet in braai area has been wired with cabtyre flex.

It is wired with 1,5mm on a 16A circuit breaker. ( that's in order )

The total length of this circuit is 8 meters.

Problem is that this cabtyre flex runs above a ceiling under a flat roof, so cannot be replaced without either removing the roof sheets or ceiling boards to gain access.

I have tried finding a regulation that makes the above scenario non compliant, without success.
I cannot find anything that bans the use of cabtyre.

Is it compliant ?

What sayeth the other toppies ?

[GCE]

Hi

Flexible cords/cabtyre is allowed in an installation must must comply to the regs pasted below.
The job should still be done as if it was Twin and earth , in other words not plugged in on a plug top but as part of the installation .
That is the way I read it
Using Cabtyre is not a license to do the work like a cowboy



3.8.3
flexible cord
cable of which
a) the nominal cross-sectional area of each conductor does not exceed
4 mm˛, and
b) each conductor consists of strands of diameter less than 0,31 mm

6.1.11 Where flexible cords are used as part of the electrical installation, the
selection, installation and colour identification (see 6.3.3) shall be done in
accordance with this part of SANS 10142. Flexible cords with cross sectional
area less than 1 mm2 shall not be permitted.
6.1.12 Where flexible cords are used, the strands of the conductors shall be
mechanically protected with ferrules to prevent the strands from being cut off
in terminations


6.3.7 Joints and terminations
6.3.7.1 Joints and terminations of cables, cores and conductors shall be
made in accordance with manufacturers' instructions or the appropriate part
of SANS 10198-10 and SANS 10198-11.
Flexible cables shall only be joined using termination boxes, cable couplers or
manufacturers’ jointing kits.
All joints shall be accessible, protected against strain, and protected in
accordance with 5.2.1, except for joints made and sealed permanently and
intended to be maintenance free.

[Derlyn]

Thanks GCE.

When I did the inspection, it was plugged into a socket outlet in the garage.

I then had 2 options.

1. Either remove the socket outlet at the braai or
2. Make it compliant.

I chose the latter by removing the plug top in the garage, connecting it directly to the plug circuit and changing the 20A circuit breaker to 16A.

Thanks for the reply. It seems as if I'm in the clear. Dealing with an unreasonable buyer who got another spark to check my Coc and he was advised by hi's guy that the cabtyre is not compliant.

The attorney who did the transfer is now asking questions.

[Isetech]

Thanks GCE.

When I did the inspection, it was plugged into a socket outlet in the garage.

I then had 2 options.

1. Either remove the socket outlet at the braai or
2. Make it compliant.

I chose the latter by removing the plug top in the garage, connecting it directly to the plug circuit and changing the 20A circuit breaker to 16A.

Thanks for the reply. It seems as if I'm in the clear. Dealing with an unreasonable buyer who got another spark to check my Coc and he was advised by hi's guy that the cabtyre is not compliant.

The attorney who did the transfer is now asking questions.

I was also put in this position a couple months ago, My customer purchased a property with a bunch of extension cords feeding, outside lights, extension cords feeding the gate wire with comms cable in the same pipe, a long list.

As pointed out by the person who issued the COC, everything had plug tops and therefore was not part of the electrical installation. My response was that is fine so long as nothing is secured to the building.

However this is where it gets interesting, firstly you cannot run a power cable in the same conduit as a comms cable, even if it is plugged into the wall.

My argument wasnt about the cabtyre hanging everywhere plugged into socket outlets, my argument was that all the fixtures were not working once I removed all the extension cords cut it off at the fixture and told them to return all the extension cords to the seller.

It wasnt the fact that they had used 1.5 mm cabtyre to wire the building, the problem was the 30 amp circuit breakers feeding the socket outlets which were wired in 4 mm house wire.

No mechanical protection at the base of the wall where it entered the conduit under the driveway.

No supports for the cables hanging between the garage and the house, more than 3m gap.

The exposed skrewits used to connect the cabtyre at various points.

The damaged light fittings secured to the building (the only part secured to the building)

There seems to be this misunderstanding about the use flexible cable like cabtyre, aquau cable, trailing cables etc. I have wired up machines in factories using trailing cable.

The way I see it, if you plug a plug top into a socket outlet and just hang it loosely around the building, thats fine, however as soon as you secure any part of the cabtyre or the appliance to the building, be it the roof, the wall or floor, it now becomes a fixture and must be compliant. Right or wrong I dont really care, because at the end of the day I am going to sit with the problem when the buyer my customer decides to sell.

if you sell one of my customers a property and you have cabtyre hanging all over the building and wrap the cabtyre around the rafters loosely, no problem, just dont secure any part of it to the building.

As we all know the standards are min. guidelines, if you are a buyer you can expect some sort of standard and min requirements. This is why I always insist on the buyer getting me to check the property prior to signing the transfer documents, at that point we can decide what is acceptable and use the regs as a min standard.

Another example is damaged covers, you dont have to replace damaged covers if it is just cracked, but if you take into consideration what it is going to cost to replace all damaged covers and any other you find on the property, it might impact the price.

[Isetech]

In short you can do whatever you want to do with cabtyre that is plugged into a socket outlet and not secured to the building, you can even use a 0,5 mm cabtyre, hang it across the pool while you cut the grass with an electric mower, you can even do dumb things like connecting all the 230VAC strip lights hanging over the pool net in the pool, nobody cares.

Just dont make it a fixture by mounting it or securing it to the side of the pool or connect it to the gate or pool DB or security lights.

[Derlyn]

Forgot to mention.
Only if the buyer is presently living in the house do I sometimes involve them, otherwise, never.

The safest way to CYA is to go by the book. It then doesn't matter how unreasonable or difficult the buyer is, you're covered.

[Derlyn]

If you use cabtyre, don't forget to change the insulation colours on the ends. Brown to red and blue to black using tape or heat shrink and use bootlace ferrules to protect the conductor ends.

Neglecting to do the above will make it non compliant.

[BEVIN]

making security lights a fixture

hi there isetech please allow me to understand what you are saying,the security lights will of course be fixed to a wall
does this mean that this will make the whole setup cabtyre ,plugged into a socket outlet cabtyre hanging loose unacceptable?
and because the light now is fixed to the wall it has to be deemed as part of the installation and thus cannot be excluded from the coc?
secondly may i just ask that should a cable be running through an inaccesible area ex a flat roof where there may be connection boxes and therefore perhaps unseen connections what will the procedure be on this .those connections could be open but my meggar and multimeter might not pick up any faults ?

[Dylboy]

Thinking now is the light fixture excluded as we only test to terminals so if the cabtyre is loose but the light fixed then that may be fine as only on at terminals ?

I like cabtyre for its flexibility but I treat it as any other cable.

My old boss would say it if is plugged in then unplug it as it is then an appliance and excluded from CoC...

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[Derlyn]

@Dylboy
Me thinks your old boss wasn't correct.

One must distinguish between fixed appliances and other appliances.

As soon as an appliance is fixed, then the wiring up to the terminals of such appliance is part of the installation and must comply. Think aircon, geyser or stove.

[Dylboy]

Ahhhh you are right... Fixed appliance is then any appliance actually that is fixed to the brick and mortar of the installation... Does not matter if plugged in or not.

Then this thing of Isetech of being if it is fixed to the installation it must then comply.

Glad this conversation happened thank you

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[Isetech]

If you use cabtyre, don't forget to change the insulation colours on the ends. Brown to red and blue to black using tape or heat shrink and use bootlace ferrules to protect the conductor ends.

Neglecting to do the above will make it non compliant.

To date I have never seen anyone ever fit red tape or red sleeve to a brown wire or black to a blue wire.

What I do see a lot is brown used for live - blue for neutral and green/yellow for the return/live for lights connected to PEC's.

The only time I ever seen red tape used to identify a wire, red taped on the bare wire of FTE and surfix used for return/lives in lighting

Bootlace ferrules, the only place they are used is for control wires in panels.

[GCE]

To date I have never seen anyone ever fit red tape or red sleeve to a brown wire or black to a blue wire.

What I do see a lot is brown used for live - blue for neutral and green/yellow for the return/live for lights connected to PEC's.

The only time I ever seen red tape used to identify a wire, red taped on the bare wire of FTE and surfix used for return/lives in lighting

Bootlace ferrules, the only place they are used is for control wires in panels.

Then it will not comply and you cannot sign it off


6.1.11 Where flexible cords are used as part of the electrical installation, the
selection, installation and colour identification (see 6.3.3) shall be done in
accordance with this part of SANS 10142. Flexible cords with cross sectional
area less than 1 mm2 shall not be permitted.
6.1.12 Where flexible cords are used, the strands of the conductors shall be
mechanically protected with ferrules to prevent the strands from being cut off
in terminations

[Isetech]

Then it will not comply and you cannot sign it off


6.1.11 Where flexible cords are used as part of the electrical installation, the
selection, installation and colour identification (see 6.3.3) shall be done in
accordance with this part of SANS 10142. Flexible cords with cross sectional
area less than 1 mm2 shall not be permitted.
6.1.12 Where flexible cords are used, the strands of the conductors shall be
mechanically protected with ferrules to prevent the strands from being cut off
in terminations

I agree 100 %, but the reality is that nobody seems to comply. One of the audits we have been busy with, was signed over by a member of an associassion (who you would think, would know better) after reporting the member we still found silly issues like this on site

At least if it is dodgy cardboard electricians and DIY jobs, they might not know any better, but when qualified IE's and MIE's registered with the DOL and an associassion are signing off jobs like this, it becomes a big problem. It indicates that the responsible person has sent unskilled staff to site or not been to site and carried out a thorough test report.

[Dylboy]

Every site I have been to where I am not the spark there the owner or the IE is never ever there as generally they the owner and it shows with the amount of F ups that come later on...

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