Issuing a COC for a property with solar and an invalid COC

[Isetech]

Who has the authority to declare a COC invalid ?

The DOL.

[Isetech]

Who has the authority to declare a COC invalid ?

However as an IE or MIE you can identify issues on a site and bring it to the customers attention, at which point they can decide to take it a step further and request an investigation. I hear they can then appoint an AIA to investigate further.

I am yet to reach that stage, we generally identify the issues, point it out to the customer, who will then decide what action they want to take.


They can then contact the estate agent or the contact details on the COC, or if the person is registered with an associassion and they dont want to respond, then we contact the associassion. They would normally contact the member and request they sort out the issue.

We do get the odd arrogant people who chooses not to respond, then the matter is handed over, 99.9 % of the cases are resolved before it gets to the DOL because they are aware of the issues and return to repair at their cost.

If you purchase a property and dont like the idea of the entire property being wired in cabtyre, even if it is legal, you can as the buyer request it is replaced, but it has to be stated in the sale agreement. Once the transfer papers are signed and handed in only non compliant items have to be investigated. Make sure you understand this.

[GCE]

You do not need to issue a COC when replacing components.

The only time you would need to issue a COC is if you move the location of the socket outlet which is burnt.

Technically/ legally that statement is incorrect - I have always heard that even the changing of a socket outlet requires a COC to be issued and looking at OHSA regs pasted below it would appear so
I don't think it would be practical or financially viable as the cost to write a COC out for a socket repair would create the opening for more handymen to do the work , which is already happening in the electrical industry .
With handymen doing the work there would still be no coc and the risk of unsafe practices happening becomes even worse.


[B]"installation work"[/B] means
(a)
the installation, extension, modification or repair of an electrical installation;
(b)
the connection of machinery at the supply terminals of such machinery; or
(e)
the inspection, testing and verification of electrical installations for the purpose of issuing a certificate of compliance;

Certificate of compliance
7. (1) Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall have a valid certificate of compliance for that installation in the form of Annexure 1, which shall be accompanied by a test report in the format approved by the chief inspector, in respect of every such electrical installation.
(2)
Subject to the provisions of subregulation (3), every user or lessor of an electrical installation, as the case may be, shall on request produce the certificate of compliance for that electrical installation to an inspector, a supplier or, subject to regulation 4(1), an approved inspection authority for electrical installations.
(3)
Subregulation (1) shall not apply to an electrical installation that existed prior to 23 October 1992, and where there was no change of ownership after 1 March 1994: Provided that, if any addition or alteration is effected to such an electrical installation, the user or lessor of the electrical installation, as the case may be, shall obtain a certificate of compliance for the whole electrical installation, whereafter the provisions of subregulation (1) shall be applicable to such electrical installation.
(4)
Where any addition or alteration has been effected to an electrical installation for which a certificate of compliance was previously issued, the user or lessor of such electrical installation shall obtain a certificate of compliance for at least the addition or alteration.
(5)
Subject to the provisions of section 10(4) of the Act, the user or lessor may not allow a change of ownership if the certificate of compliance is older than two years.
(6)
The relevant supplier may at any reasonable time inspect or test any electrical installation: Provided that the supplier shall not charge any fee for such an inspection or test unless the inspection or test is carried out at the request of the user or lessor.
(7)
If an inspector, an approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier has carried out an inspection or test and has detected any fault or defect in any electrical installation, that inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier may require the user or lessor of that electrical installation to obtain a new certificate of compliance: Provided that if such fault or defect in the opinion of the inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier constitutes an immediate danger to persons, that inspector, approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier shall forthwith take steps to have the supply
to the circuit in which the fault or defect was detected, disconnected:
Provided further that where such fault or defect is of such a nature that it may
indicate negligence on the part of a registered person, the inspector,
approved inspection authority for electrical installations or supplier shall
forthwith report those circumstances in writing to the chief inspector.

Issuing of certificate of compliance
9. (1) No person other than a registered person may issue a certificate of compliance.
(2) A registered person may issue a certificate of compliance accompanied by the required test report only after having satisfied himself or herself by means of an inspection and test that
(a)
a new electrical installation complies with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and was carried out under his or her general control; or
(b)
an electrical installation which existed prior to the publication of the current edition of the health and safety standard incorporated into these Regulations in terms of regulation 5(1), complies with the general safety principles of such standard; or
(c)
an electrical installation referred to in paragraph (b), to which extensions or alterations have been effected, that
(i) the existing part of the electrical installation complies with the general safety principles of such standard and is reasonably safe, and
(ii) the extensions or alterations effected comply with the provisions of regulation 5(1) and were carried out under his or her general control.
(3)
If at any time prior to the issuing of a certificate of compliance any fault or defect is detected in any part of the electrical installation, the registered person shall refuse to issue such certificate until that fault or defect has been rectified: Provided that if such fault or defect in the opinion of the registered person constitutes an immediate danger to persons in a case where electricity is already supplied, he or she shall forthwith take steps to disconnect the supply to the circuit in which the fault or defect was detected and notify the chief inspector thereof.
(4)
Any person who undertakes to do electrical installation work shall ensure that a valid certificate of compliance is issued for that work.
(5)
No person may amend a certificate of compliance.

[Isetech]

Just imagine... every single elctrical contractor who sends a qualified electrician to site to replace a socket outlet or any component replacement for that matter, would be breaking the law, unless they were registered a a single phase tester, IE or MIE.

[Isetech]

I have a situation where a "qualified electrician" replaced all downlights in a house with LED's, the COC was compliant until they replaced the lamp holders and lamps. All the terminations now have "exposed wires", the clamp is squashing the insulation on the wire and not the outer sheath of the FTE. The so called earth bracket (really bad design) is also just loose on the ceiling.

[Derlyn]

The way that I see it is as follows.

Only when issuing the initial certificate must the person who is registered with the DOL be on site to personally carry out the tests. The declaration on the front page specifically states this.

However, the declaration on the test report does not require the person who is registered with the DOL to personally carry out these tests. It requires this person to be responsible for these tests. Taking responsibility for something and personally doing something are two totally different things.

I therefore disagree with the statement that the person who changes a faulty socket outlet must be registered with the DOL.

Edited 17.52

Ek was deurmekaar. This happens when you are a one man band ....... you do everything and sign everything ..

When you get bigger than a one man band there are variables.

The IE and the Contractor would presumably not be the same person.

There could also be someone else assigned to be responsible for the inspection and testing who is not necessarily the same person who personally did the testing and so it goes on.

Like I said, I do everything and sign everything.

[Isetech]

The way that I see it is as follows.

Only when issuing the initial certificate must the person who is registered with the DOL be on site to personally carry out the tests. The declaration on the front page specifically states this.

However, the declaration on the test report does not require the person who is registered with the DOL to personally carry out these tests. It requires this person to be responsible for these tests. Taking responsibility for something and personally doing something are two totally different things.

I therefore disagree with the statement that the person who changes a faulty socket outlet must be registered with the DOL.

If I understand your statement correctly, you saying that the inspectors would have to return to site and carry out a test report on 1 socket outlet replacement? or anyone in the company can replace the socket and do a test report, take it back to the office and give it to the admin to print the new the supplementary COC and get the IE or MIE to sign it?

Someone else on this forum mentioned that is how they do test reports/COC's.

One of the audits we are busy with, it seems the IE has never been to site, his team do the job, and it looks like he just issues the COC, he is a member of an associassion. Maybe this is standard practise for members?

Maybe I am the one who has got it wrong?

That could explain why IE's and MIE's are offering the service for DIY installations. Just get the person on site to send the test results ? Its a laugh a minute

[Dylboy]

One thing I did learn with old boss it was nearly impossible for him to be at every site all the time, so he has very general control but not a lot. He can't split himself into 10 sites...

So essentially would need an IE at every site all the time but then imagine that bill to the client... Also one company can only have one IE who signs stuff so there is another issue.

And also this Downlight thing kills me. The rubbish you get to do the joins and looping is very dismal and nearly impossibke to not have any exposed single insulated open wiring. Every single downlight I have seen has it and even when I do it there is exposed open wiring... I need to 3D print a better idea and get that made haha

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[Dave A]

Also one company can only have one IE who signs stuff so there is another issue.

One company can have as many IE's as they like/need/can afford!

[Dylboy]

One company can have as many IE's as they like/need/can afford!

A d can they all sign ?

I must maybe be then thinking of an IE can't be an IE for a company and then run his own company and be the IE for that ? Or I am very wrong in which case great

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[Derlyn]

A d can they all sign ?

I must maybe be then thinking of an IE can't be an IE for a company and then run his own company and be the IE for that ? Or I am very wrong in which case great

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I am a one man band.
Driver, IE, Registered person, electrical contractor, everything and I sign everything.

[Dave A]

A d can they all sign ?

Yes.

I must maybe be then thinking of an IE can't be an IE for a company and then run his own company and be the IE for that ?

Probably. A registered person (SPT, IE, MIE) can only be registered with one registered electrical contractor at any given time.

[Isetech]

You forgot admin, quality control officer, safety officer, debit collector and all the other stuff we have to deal with as a one man band.

As pointed out, the boss man gets distracted by other stuff and as the little business grows, so the responsibility is shifted to the staff which frees up the boss to do other more fun stuff.

The way it should work and this is what I am considering, to close my electrician business and rather work as a consultant to to highest bidder/s. Get off the tools completely, where I am involved in the planning, site checks and then testing. Basically I spend my day driving around to sites checking progress and more important, I work for the customer not the contractor, that way I have the customer best interest at heart and make sure things are done correctly.

I see there are people doing something similar, but from my experience dealing with some of them, they just as bad a the subbies they hire.

[Isetech]

I have already had a few small electrical contractors approach me requesting I handle the admin side of the electrical. dont think this is a good idea, I would rather deal directly with the customer.

[Derlyn]

Off topic ..... But being a one man band has treated me well. When things are not going well, you can only blame 1 person, yourself.

When there are certain aspects of what you are doing that's a headache, you can rid yourself of them and don't need to rely on the boss man to do it.

The more clever you work, the more you make.

All in all, I wouldn't swop it for anything and if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing.