Quick question

[GCE]

Now if someone hadn'nt pissed off GCE, he would have posted the regulation

.

My skin is to thick to take offence - Been a bit occupied

[GCE]

The reason I'm asking is not because I intend doing it. I did an inspection for a COC yesterday and all the downlights have been connected this way.

Both wires going in the same side of the block so that both screws are securing each wire. The blocks have all been heat shrinked and a cable tie holds both wires together taking care of the strain issue. I gave it a pass. Nobody is gonna access that connection without using a tool.

Just trying to get some clarity from the other toppies what they think and if they would insist on enclosures in this case.

Sometimes, irrespective of how long you've been in the game, you get situations where you are not 100%sure.
This was one of them

It is a tricky one as the sign off is for " reasonable safe " and needs to comply to Fundamentals section 5 in Sans 10142-1 which it would appear to satisfy as per 5.2

5.2 Safety
5.2.1 Live parts
It shall not be possible to touch any live part within arm's reach with the
standard test finger (see SANS 60529)
a) during normal operation, or
b) when a cover is removed, unless the cover is removed with the use of a
tool or a key.

Personally , i will not sign off on it as once the heatshrink is removed that person would need to put heat shrink back again , which is likely not to happen.
Think they should change that reg to say " and put back "

If the client wants to argue , which we have had with an installation that we would not accept the coc because of a similar set up to your description, we use

5.1 General
All commodities in an electrical installation shall be installed in accordance
with the requirements in this part of SANS 10142 and with the manufacturer's
instructions, where applicable.
NOTE 1 This clause contains the general safety principles applicable to electrical
installations.
NOTE 2 The manufacturer's instructions may contain more stringent requirements.

And the Cable manufacturers pamphlets state joints shall be in a box

Then we have 6.3.7 which in my opinion pretty much stops any arguments.
When we had the dispute over the joints we asked the client and contractor to show us in the regulations where we can use a cable tie and connector block without it being in an enclosure


6.3.7 Joints and terminations
6.3.7.1 Joints and terminations of cables, cores and conductors shall be
made in accordance with manufacturers' instructions or the appropriate part
of SANS 10198-10 and SANS 10198-11.
Flexible cables shall only be joined using termination boxes, cable couplers or
manufacturers’ jointing kits.
All joints shall be accessible, protected against strain, and protected in
accordance with 5.2.1, except for joints made and sealed permanently and
intended to be maintenance free.
6.3.7.2 Joints and terminations shall not
a) adversely affect the current-carrying capacity, the insulation resist-ance or
the earth continuity of the cable, core or conductor in which they are made,
b) be made in any connector, bend, elbow or tee-piece of a conduit,
c) allow the strands of a stranded conductor to spread, or
d) require strands of a stranded conductor to be cut away to allow connection
of the conductors (for example, to terminals).

[LightsOn]

Now if someone hadn'nt pissed off GCE, he would have posted the regulation

I thought we have learned that you can't rely on one expert to do all the reading for you, who posts some relevant selection of regulations, and then you just run with that and assume that's the correct answer.

There might be another rule from the same document that the expert missed or forgot about. And now you've got big problems. Because instead of operating with humble caution of "I don't know for sure, but the situation is x"

You say "The expert said it, so case closed, let's pour concrete over that answer and build a building on-top of it."

That's the problem with the psychology around the concept of experts.

Thinking you know everything, or some expert knows everything. Or that the new guy knows nothing and can't do anything right and so on. It's all false beliefs that come from the desire to assume, generalize and rely on other people to do the thinking and reading for you.

I believe there is a balance. We can ask each other to check if what we're thinking and doing is correct, in-case we have made a mistake. Where we respect and appreciate an expert's opinion, but realize that they're only human and do actually make mistakes like everybody else, so seek confirmation and not being closed minded to challenges or counter opinions etc.

[Isetech]

Nobody relies on GCE's expert opinion, he is the only person who is prepared to take the time to copy and paste the relevant regulations.

Feel free to take over the task, I am sure everyone will appreciate your contribution.