[Question] New SANS regs in the pipeline

[Isetech]

While working on site last week, someone mentioned a new SANS regulation book, any truth in this comment?

If it is true how will it affect all the installation currently being intalled and signed off ?

What is going to happen to the bonded the neutral/earth, who is going to pay to make it right, be it to add a relay or go around and remove all the relays?

Will the new regs update the old battery regualtions ?

Will there be specific regs for the different type of batteires, lead acid and lithium.

Will all lithium batteries fall in one category, or will the different lithium battreries be identified and classfiied accordingly and be aceptable inside the house ?

So many questions and just no answers.

Too many experts and too little facts.

[GCE]

The introduction wording in SANS10142-1 will answer your question


Because this part of SANS 10142 is continually updated, problems can arise
on which version of the standard will be applicable when a contract is signed.
The date of approval of the latest revision or amendment of this part of
SANS 10142 will be the implementation date of the revision or the
amendment. The applicable version of this part of SANS 10142 is the one with
the latest implementation date before the contract date. So contracts signed
before the approval of an amendment shall be carried out in accordance with
the provisions of the unamended standard. If an existing installation is
extended or altered, such extension or alteration shall comply with the
provisions of this part of SANS 10142 that were applicable at the time of the
erection of the extension or alteration.

[Isetech]

Thanks, any word on the new regs?

Any word on the new document to be released (apparently mentioned one of the courses recently) or is that just chatter ?

[GCE]

There is talk of an updated set to be published before the end of the year , does not mean it will happen as these things sometimes run over original dates - I have not seen it being published for public comment yet

[HealthyDozen]

SANS 10142-1:2021 (Ed. 3.01) is almost two years old, so unless there's a pressing need it's not worth spending R1,300 if you have at least 2020:Ed 3, only to see it superseded "before year end". If only SABS would give some idea of when the next one is due.

Quite frankly, I think much would be achieved if the 10142-1 documents were made available free online, with quarterly updates published with email notifications thereof to anyone who signs up. The end result would be better compliance with standards by electricians, DIY people and anyone who may want to check one page, especially doing this unavoidable, uncontrollable solar installation frenzy. If some people cannot be stopped from going to do DIY installations, then at least provide them with all the guidance possible to help make it safe. A bit like the controversial Swiss approach of saying if people are going be stupid and use narcotics (no, I don't condone this), then provide them with free needles to prevent hepatitis, HIV transmission, etc.

And SANS 10142-1-2 that was withdrawn is still being reviewed by an electrical industry association (a PV assoc whose nose was out of joint for not being "sufficiently consulted", according to one of the SANS committee members), and is dragging on month after month before re-publication. In the interim, while they sloooooowwwwwly review the document, thousands of inverter/solar installations are being done, many of which are illegal and would ultimately be safer if the publication was expedited, and need I say it, be made available free.

Anyone who didn't purchase SANS 10142-1-2 in the brief period that it was available can only refer to the summaries that have been posted in this forum and others (thanks) and a few drafts that were released and are still available online, but definitely differ from what will eventually be published. Here are two but they are old:

SANS 10142-1-2:201X DRAFT

DRAFT SOUTH AFRICAN STANDARD (DSS)

If anyone knows of a more recent DRAFT SANS 10142-1-2, kindly share it here. It could perhaps benefit from additional external (as in not the SANS committee) review and feedback.

[GCE]

And [/FONT]SANS 10142-1-2 that was withdrawn[FONT=Arial] is still being reviewed by an electrical industry association (a PV assoc whose nose was out of joint for not being "sufficiently consulted", according to one of the SANS committee members), and is dragging on month after month before re-publication. In the interim, while they sloooooowwwwwly review the document, thousands of inverter/solar installations are being done, many of which are illegal and would ultimately be safer if the publication was expedited, and need I say it, be made available free.

Anyone who didn't purchase SANS 10142-1-2 in the brief period that it was available can only refer to the summaries that have been posted in this forum and others (thanks) and a few drafts that were released and are still available online, but definitely differ from what will eventually be published. Here are two but they are old:

I struggle to understand why everyone thinks there should be another SANS code for electrical installation work brought out - Inverters, DC wiring extra are already all covered - All SANS10142-1-2 was doing was sorting out grid tie which is already covered by NERSA
When SANS10142-1-2 came out it basically took everything from SANS10142-1 and condensed it and added a couple of paragraphs on Grid tie instead of taking the couple of paragraphs needed for grid tie and place them in SANS 10142-1

To me in sounds like you are all wanting to buy an extra SANS reg every year or so when they change anything in
SANS10142-1

This was the introduction to Part 2
Part 1-2: Additional special requirements for
low voltage small scale embedded generator
installations connected to THE GRID

[HealthyDozen]

.... already covered by NERSA

I agree that there should be one doc for all low voltage wiring, that incorporates the new inverter/battery/PV panel stuff. I just cannot find any such standards documentation at present.

W.r.t the reference to NERSA above, can you point to this pls? I'm not aware of any such documentation or document.
And the NRS docs state on the cover that they're not a standard.

Tx

[Isetech]

What the industry needs are basic guidleines to simplify the regs.

For example lithium batteries safe locations.

TN earthing systems and neutral/earth bonding.

Earthing/bonding for solar panels.

Lightning protection and when it is required.

DC isolators and when and where to install them.

Yes I know the next response is going to be, "but its all in the regs" yes we know that, but we dealing with trademen, not engineers who like spending days reading through piles and piles of paperwork.

We can post attachements of regs all day long, they mean nothing to the huindreds of thousands of trademen/installers who just want to go install some equipment and show it off on social media.

Training and advanced which covers the improtant stuff.

People want to learn, I know because I get many calls from people who want to spend a couple days workingt with me to see how things are done, am I doing it right, maybe not 100 % but I try to do the best I can wit hthe information I can get my hands on.

[Isetech]

Dont worry you are not alone, there are many trademen out there in the same boat. Many people think the only requirements are SANS , but in reality there is more stuff that you are not aware of than you know. Just when you thought everything had to be SANS approved, well take a look at the crap being dumped in SA, so long as it has some standard, they say. You can buy a complete solar system from your local far east friendly shop, going up faster than solar installations.

Then we have a bunch of people trying to rule the industry, threatening legal action against everyone.

Its shyte show out there.

With the solar industry boom, the elctrical industry has also gone crazy, but the hard times are coming, as an abundance of stock arrives, as more and people climb on the solar boom train, things are going to become a little more challenging. Prices are going to start dropping, you going to see a lot more special and bundle deals, companies are going to start offering credit to encourage you to buy more.

Watch carefully as the boom hit so you would have noticed the solar companies grew, watch carefully as it starts crashing.

YOu would have already notice by now the reduction in load shedding and with that the demand for backup systems has already started reducing. People are no longer prepared to take than R200k for something which is going to become a huge expense, which will require registration, fines for not registering, money fees and levies.

The reality is that load shedding will determine the survival of the solar industry. If they keep reducing it at this rate, there is going to be a huge bang in the industry and a lot people are going to once again loose a lot of money (as people did in 2008). At the rate the industry grew and every man his his uncle climbed on the bandwagon, so you going to see it fall. Some who have created huge overheads expecting the load shedding to get worse are going to feel it the most.

It is good news for the installer and the user as the market place is flooded with stock. I am glad I didnt rush out and get into huge debt to keep the lights on.

Do i think its a bad idea to install solar, only time will tell.

How the metros are going to recover the monthly revenue losses.

The fines for non registered installations.

The fees and levies which will be introiduced to recover lost revenue.

As the market place is being flooded with product and the stock shortage have eased, the prices will become more competetive. The special have already started.

The sad part is the calls from people trying to unload stock, now exceed the calls for new installations. Just becaureful if you are putting all your eggs in the solar industry.

The writting was on the wall already in June last year for the boom which happened, the stock shortage in Jan/Fed resulted in the massive price increases.

People said the prices were going to sky rocket due to the weak rand, well it didnt happen because the market is being flooded with products as the competition grows and the load shedding reduces.









W.r.t the reference to NERSA above, can you point to this pls? I'm not aware of any such documentation or document.
And the NRS docs state on the cover that they're not a standard.

Tx[/QUOTE]

[GCE]

I agree that there should be one doc for all low voltage wiring, that incorporates the new inverter/battery/PV panel stuff. I just cannot find any such standards documentation at present.

W.r.t the reference to NERSA above, can you point to this pls? I'm not aware of any such documentation or document.
And the NRS docs state on the cover that they're not a standard.

Tx

NERSA may not be a standard but are generally written into Utility's bylaws which under OHSA and SANS10142-1 state that we need to adhere to bylaws - So in a round about way we need to comply
Have pasted below for ease of use

[HealthyDozen]

Spot on - the regs do need simplification and consolidation.

I have seen multiple horrific inverter/battery/PV installations by licensed electricians for a solar rental company, where the DB board is a dog's breakfast with AC and DC wires running long distances in the same trunking, AC MCBs used for DC circuits, no labelling, no warning signs, switches for essential and non-essential circuits mixed on the same rail, and plenty other bad and non-compliant practices. Just a wall of switches and stuff and the residential consumer wouldn't know what to do in an emergency. And one electrician told me he does not own a copy of SANS 10142 and sees no reason to buy one either. A frustrating reality in South Africa, some of just a pure survival measure.

So perhaps these documents and regulations should be made freely available (as in free, not R1300) with quarterly updates so that even the DIY guys and unregistered installers can learn to do safer installations. The idea may be controversial, but the DIY guys and unregistered installers cannot be stopped, and it is not endorsing what they do. And some of their work is absolutely superb too. They just CAN NOT be stopped, any more than SAPS can stop crime or enforce the ample laws that SA already has.

So perhaps give everyone ample information to learn how not to kill themselves or others, including cheat sheets with a list of all the typical bad practices, and set up a framework for oversight by licensed electricians. I do not think this will eat into the income of licenses electricians doing proper installations, especially in three-phase and large industrial/commercial/retail environments. And some of them may even become licensed electricians – that has to be a good thing. I’m sure the ECA and some electricians will have a stroke reading this, but unusual times need unconventional solutions…

I believe that the lull in load shedding is temporary as there is no underlying improvement in the deteriorating base load generation, transmission and distribution infrastructures. So many municipalities are bankrupt with few/no spare transformers and switchgear. Transmission inadequacies for N Cape IPP projects to connect to the grid. Koeberg 2 due for long term shutdown. Significant parts of Kusile and Medupi still offline. And when they fix those there's the long list of older, ailing coal-fired stations that are approaching decommissioning. And so many unknowns - like how much of the recent intense load shedding was linked to political and wage negotiation (extortion) issues? And what synthetic pressures will emerge leading up to the May 2024 elections – more or fewer blackouts?

I think that up until now the primary reason for battery backup and solar installations in residential, industrial and other commercial has been to alleviate inconvenience and business/lifestyle disruption. But as the tariffs inevitably increase, the motivation will change to cost saving as it has in other parts of the world. People with only battery backup will add PV and a feed-back meter and change to pre-paid to save money and perhaps even make some back (if their inverter is capable and permitted to be grid-tied). Anyone who installed a proper inverter and battery (say 5-10 kVA, with 10-20 kWh of battery) without PV has already written this off as a sunk cost - they knew it was never going to save money and it was done out of frustration. The time is right for these to add PV, save money and recover their investment too.

Some spreadsheet modelling shows that adding PV to these battery backups for 70-80% of a households' total electricity bill can be paid off in as little as two years (just the PV additions), depending on the roof geometry and usage patterns. That's a very short period until one starts saving a few grand a month. It's also not difficult to get to 100% (roof geometry permitting) but remain on pre-paid (to cull the monthly service fees) just-in-case...

Gauteng proposes to train 6,000 “solar installers”, whatever that means. I say give anyone who’s willing to to learn all the documentation possible so that they can learn how to do it properly. Lack of education is not solved by monetising it in South Africa.

[Derlyn]

Couldn't agree with you more, however, both you and I know that the chances of this happening are very close to zero.

Yep, the unregistered PV installation gang is extremely busy here in our valley. It also doesn't help that there's a single phase tester, who for a few bucks, fills in a coc for them. A situation that will continue forever, due to NO control. Unfortunately, the clients having these systems installed are none the wiser.

I, for one, cannot see the free for all situation ending in the foreseeable future and your suggestion of making the rules and regulations more freely available will certainly go a long way to making the installations more compliant.

[Dave A]

Unfortunately, the clients having these systems installed are none the wiser.

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."

So perhaps these documents and regulations should be made freely available (as in free, not R1300) with quarterly updates so that even the DIY guys and unregistered installers can learn to do safer installations. The idea may be controversial, but the DIY guys and unregistered installers cannot be stopped, and it is not endorsing what they do. And some of their work is absolutely superb too. They just CAN NOT be stopped, any more than SAPS can stop crime or enforce the ample laws that SA already has.

So perhaps give everyone ample information to learn how not to kill themselves or others, including cheat sheets with a list of all the typical bad practices, and set up a framework for oversight by licensed electricians.

My theory is you need to focus on education before regulation if you really want to uplift an industry's standard. So I support the underlying principle.

Unfortunately I have heard that SANS 10142-1 is SABS's no.1 seller...
Good luck getting them to abandon that income stream.

To me in sounds like you are all wanting to buy an extra SANS reg every year or so when they change anything in
SANS10142-1

If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

[Isetech]

Yip, they know, the budget rules and cash is king. I get calls at least once a week for people who want me to sigh off installtion done by a friend ro the nighbour who has a mate who is a green card holder or just has some experience in fitting solar systems.

Education and regualation, but there is a catch to this, people need to understand what they are reading and put it into context. I have found people have no idea why they are using that specific code, they just saw it posted on social media telling everyone that it is the law.

Until we have a system to manage COC's being issued, random checks done and some form of punishment, nothing is going to change.

What I wowould like to see is more working groups which include a few smart people who actaully work on site or have hands on working experience, a few electrical engineers and just people with a little common sense. I have found that a lot of the smart people read the haze of bullshyte on social media, but tend to keep their wisdom to themselves, in fear of being ridiculed by the fools.

I wish more smart people would engage and share their wisdom and also point out the bullshyte.

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."



My theory is you need to focus on education before regulation if you really want to uplift an industry's standard. So I support the underlying principle.

Unfortunately I have heard that SANS 10142-1 is SABS's no.1 seller...
Good luck getting them to abandon that income stream.


If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

[GCE]

Unfortunately I have found the majority of clients are well aware that they are not fully complying with requirements in this part of the country. However, the attitude is "Everyone else around me is doing the same thing, so that's OK."




If SABS won't publish the insert pages for updates, do we have a choice?
To my mind, staying abreast of the updates and having the latest version of the Standard available is non-negotiable for the electrical contractor that wants to be taken seriously.

Took me out of context and my explanation was lacking

If there is/was a SANS 10142-1-2 it is so closely related to SANS 10142-1 that anytime anything is changed in part 1 then part 2 would also need to change - We would be buying 2 books every year instead of one