New SANS regs in the pipeline

[GCE]

NERSA may not be a standard but are generally written into Utility's bylaws which under OHSA and SANS10142-1 state that we need to adhere to bylaws - So in a round about way we need to comply
Have pasted below for ease of use

Further to teh last upload - There is a later edition of 097-2-3 pasted below

[Isetech]

If the SANS 10142 regs are not the only reference point for the wiring standards there should be a guideline to follow, identifying all the regs which should be adhered to when doing an "electrical installation" ... "battery installations" ... backup system installations. Yes I know there are refences to other regulations, but you need to understand the level of competence we are dealing with.

It is bad enough trying to get people to follow 1 set of rules and interpret them the same. Some would refer to as grey areas.

I will give you an expample, if you come to this forum, some people will tell you counting circuits by wires is the correct way to do it, if you go an ECA course (which you pay for by the way), the lecturer will tell you that you count circuits by circuit breakers, so what is the correct answer, the only way to answer that question is to put it out to an open disccusion, gather the responses and make a descion based on the responses. Then put a proposal forward to get the reg amended.


If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed, lets use the discussion from last night, downlights where mentioned.

Now I hear people talking about the SANS regs falling away and using IEC standards, will this happen, you just have to look at equipment being sold in SA to realise the SABS is not longer a standard used to control items sold in SA, now they say so long as the product has some form of quality control or standard.

What we have in this country at the moment are various groups of people who believe their interpretation of the regs are correct and they stick to them, is it a bad thing, well only a court case would prove otherwise, is there going to be a court case anytime soon, lets wait and see, you just have to look at social pictures and comments to realise, it arent gonna happen anytime soon.

The sad part about all this confusion, the only people loosing at the moment is ... yip you right ... the end user.

Another thing I have come to realise is the cutting and posting one clause or part of one regulation, just creates more confusion, unless those 2 or lines are put into context, discussed and interpreted the same, otherwsie it is realy just 2/3 lines of information, which might not be relavant to the discussion, unless all the codes from all the different books and regulations are referenced. Lithium batteries are a good example.

How are we going to solve this massive problem, to start with, there needs to be a person appointe dto take control, then group discussion to make sure the regs are interpreted the same then as we did in the past, release updates to the regs as the items are discussed and finalised. It 2023, you dont need to wait 2 years to release updates.

The first question is going to be who has the correct qualifications, expereince and authourity to take on a position of such magnitude ?

My understanding is that the DOL are responsible for the regs, could the DOL handle such a huge technical task ?

[Isetech]

Should we work to IEC, NRS standards or SANS standards, there should be one standard that is applicable for electrical installations. If the government wants us to use SANS, then the metros and everyone else should use the same standard applicable for SA as a whole.

The electrical industry should be controlled and policed by the same people. If the resposiblity is going to be left for private companies to control, that is going to make it even more interesting.

The big question is how long will the DOL be able to maintain control over the industry, and how long is SANS going to be guide to electrical standards ?

[Derlyn]

If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed,

If someone is of the opinion that appliances out of arms reach needn't be earthed, the quickest way to correct them is to ask if the geyser in the attic is out of arms reach.
That usually settles that one quickly.

If in doubt, always think safety. That's my motto and that's the reason we have SANS.

[GCE]

If the SANS 10142 regs are not the only reference point for the wiring standards there should be a guideline to follow, identifying all the regs which should be adhered to when doing an "electrical installation" ... "battery installations" ... backup system installations. Yes I know there are refences to other regulations, but you need to understand the level of competence we are dealing with.

It is bad enough trying to get people to follow 1 set of rules and interpret them the same. Some would refer to as grey areas.

I will give you an expample, if you come to this forum, some people will tell you counting circuits by wires is the correct way to do it, if you go an ECA course (which you pay for by the way), the lecturer will tell you that you count circuits by circuit breakers, so what is the correct answer, the only way to answer that question is to put it out to an open disccusion, gather the responses and make a descion based on the responses. Then put a proposal forward to get the reg amended.

You are creating the confusion - ECA will teach count circuit not breakers - If you have knowledge of it being otherwise let me know when and who and I will sort it for future

If you come to this forum and discuss earthing and you do an ECA course, the respnse will be different, some will say everything must be earthed and bonded and elsewhere, stuff out of arms reach doesnt need to be earthed, lets use the discussion from last night, downlights where mentioned.

It is clearly stated in 6.12.3.2 e that all earth terminals shall be earthed - Again don't believe ECA teach otherwise

Now I hear people talking about the SANS regs falling away and using IEC standards, will this happen, you just have to look at equipment being sold in SA to realise the SABS is not longer a standard used to control items sold in SA, now they say so long as the product has some form of quality control or standard.

Don't confuse talk with fact

The first question is going to be who has the correct qualifications, expereince and authourity to take on a position of such magnitude ?

My understanding is that the DOL are responsible for the regs, could the DOL handle such a huge technical task ?

It is DOL job to have the final say - It is also a committee driven system with all role players in the industry that sit around that table - ECA being one that will take member input to the table

[Isetech]

I will get more details and get back to you. Apprently it was a course run during this week in KZN. I didnt attend the course, just feedabck I got from the course.

With regards to the wire per circuit , I would assume that each wire connected to the breaker is identified so that when the cover is removed for maintenance, it is clearly labeled ?

Do you have wire numbers and a sketch to identfy each circuit, or do you have a label on the front of the DB to identify that there are more than 1 circuit connected to the circuit breaker ?

If you add a wire to a circuit breaker, you would be adding points, I wouldnt loose any sleep over it.

[Isetech]

Something to consider when identifying more than one circuit/wire connected to one circuit breaker.

1/ You need to identify that there is more than 1 circuit connected to one breaker. (plugs - P1and P2 if more then P3 4 5 6 etc

2/ The lableling on the front cover should indicate more than 1 circuit, and each wire/circuit should be identified.

3/ There should be an electrical layout drawing in a document holder next to the DB to identify each circuit.

4/ Light switches/socket outlets etc should be lableled with the correct circuit number so that they can be easily identified.


Just remember if you add a wire, you would need to add the points, so does it make a difference to the COC, not really, eitehr way you would have to add a circuit or a point, unless you do it properly, it actually makes no difference.