Socket outlets and stoves

[Isetech]

It is almost that time again, when we have to decide if we going to break the law and install standard double socket outlets or those other silly half and half sockets. Sitting in my kitchen typing this thread, I look across the kitchen and every single plug top is a standard 3 pin, kettle, coffee machine, air fryer, microwave, gas stove ( ignitor). toaster, dishwasher and even the fridge. then I have a 4x4 socket outlet in the cupboard which has 6 euro sockets for the phone charger.

I opened "all" the appliances which were delivered to site and imagine that, every single plug top is a standard 16 amp 3 pin.


Even the TV has a standard 3 pin plug top, the alarm power supplies, cctv power supply, you name it, why would even consider installing anything other than a standard double socket outlet.

I would love to hear how the silly socket outlet law was even considered by the SANS committee, feel free to post the reasoning.

Which brings me to stoves, eye level ovens and HOB's, if the ELO, under counter oven or HOB is fitted with a standard 15 amp 3 pin socket outlet, why would you install a stove isolator with a 32 amp supply, firstly the unit is designed and manufactured and supplied with a 15 amp plug top, why would you forfeit the warranty and cut it off to connect it directly to a 32 amp supply with a 4 mm wire and now create a fire hazard because the wire supplied with the stove cannot handle 32 amps?







.

[Derlyn]

It is almost that time again, when we have to decide if we going to break the law and install standard double socket outlets or those other silly half and half sockets. Sitting in my kitchen typing this thread, I look across the kitchen and every single plug top is a standard 3 pin, kettle, coffee machine, air fryer, microwave, gas stove ( ignitor). toaster, dishwasher and even the fridge. then I have a 4x4 socket outlet in the cupboard which has 6 euro sockets for the phone charger.

I opened "all" the appliances which were delivered to site and imagine that, every single plug top is a standard 16 amp 3 pin.


Even the TV has a standard 3 pin plug top, the alarm power supplies, cctv power supply, you name it, why would even consider installing anything other than a standard double socket outlet.

I would love to hear how the silly socket outlet law was even considered by the SANS committee, feel free to post the reasoning.

Which brings me to stoves, eye level ovens and HOB's, if the ELO, under counter oven or HOB is fitted with a standard 15 amp 3 pin socket outlet, why would you install a stove isolator with a 32 amp supply, firstly the unit is designed and manufactured and supplied with a 15 amp plug top, why would you forfeit the warranty and cut it off to connect it directly to a 32 amp supply with a 4 mm wire and now create a fire hazard because the wire supplied with the stove cannot handle 32 amps?







.

And just to add a bit to the confusion. Game sells a black 3 plate free standing Defy stove that is supplied with a 3 pin plugtop
and a sticker on the back stating that this appliance should not be connected through earth leakage. How now ?

[GCE]

why would you forfeit the warranty and cut it off to connect it directly to a 32 amp supply with a 4 mm wire and now create a fire hazard because the wire supplied with the stove cannot handle 32 amps?

.

You cannot forfeit your warranty for changing the plug top unless it is wired incorrectly - See attached article

[GCE]

I would love to hear how the silly socket outlet law was even considered by the SANS committee, feel free to post the reasoning.



.

The introduction of the Euro socket was done for safety -
The "old socket" when taking out a plug top you can inadvertently touch the live, neutral, earth pin while extracting the plug top
The "new socket" disconnects the pins due to the recessed before you an inadvertently touch the pins

That was the reasoning behind it and is being looked at worldwide.

The problem is that within SABS there has been a delay, more like incompetency , in changing the regulation on appliance plug tops - The original intention was that both would happen simultaneously

[GCE]

If you look at the latest Sans 10142-1 there were subtle changes to the regulation that can help you to comply with regulations in a kitchen environment

If they are on the same circuit and side by side then it is classed as one point -
The meaning of side by side is a bit loose - Side by side by definition would be within close proximity to each other
If they wanted it within 200mm they would have stated so -

In a kitchen on the same circuit would 2 or 5m be deemed to be close proximity ? I am not sure but it would give me wriggle room

In power skirt it is not saying shall be , it is merely suggesting that it should be


6.15.1.1.1 Except where otherwise specified in this part of SANS 10142,
single-phase socket-outlets for general use (see also 6.14.1.4) shall
a) be of the two-pole and earthing contact type,
b) comply with SANS 164-0 and
c) for new electrical installations, each socket-outlet point shall include at
least one socket-outlet complying with the dimensions of SANS 164-2.
Socket-outlet points may also include socket-outlets complying with the
dimensions of SANS 164-1 in addition to SANS 164-2 socket-outlet.
NOTE Where socket-outlets are installed on the same circuit, side by side, this
configuration could be considered one outlet point.
d) For power skirting or trunking systems, each SANS 164-1 socket-outlet
should be installed with at least one adjacent SANS 164-2 socket-outlet.

[Isetech]

I am busy connecting an eye level oven, supplied with a 15 amp socket outlet (designed and supplied by the manufacturer) , do I cut the plug top off and connect the 1.5 mm cabtyre supplied with the ELO to the 40 amp double pole isolator (I cant get a 25/32 amp 4x4 isolator in Veti 3) fed by a 32 amp mcb? OT do I do the right thing replace the 40 amp double pole isolator with a standard 16 amp socket outlet and reduce the mcb to a 20 amp and connect the ELO to the ELU?

[Dylboy]

I am not sure what the ELO is.

In my view and if possible I would add a 16Amp socket outlet to plug the oven in. Leave the isolator in place and then the isolator can isolate the oven with out removing it.

If needed add a surface mount socket behind the oven to plug into it. I am hoping there is space to do so.

Also then change the MCB to a 20amp.

20Amp as that is for a socket circuit and then oven is then an appliance.


Is the oven on its own circuit currently?

I.e does only the oven and not the stove as well ?

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[Justloadit]

I have experienced on 2 occasions in which the element broke down and made an earth fault in the tube. On both occasions the stove was on an ELU. Had it not been, there is no way that I would have realised that there was a compromise in the safety in the element.

[Dave A]

I have experienced on 2 occasions in which the element broke down and made an earth fault in the tube. On both occasions the stove was on an ELU. Had it not been, there is no way that I would have realised that there was a compromise in the safety in the element.

I've had an incident like that at home - with the stove not on earth leakage protection.
It was quite a sight. The portion of the element carrying current was extra bright, but the current wasn't high enough to trip overcurrent protection.

And I'm happy to report there was no touch voltage on the chassis whatsoever.
Makes one appreciate the value of good earthing!

[Derlyn]

Oven with 1,5mm lead and plugtop. I see it as follows:

You cannot just cut off the plugtop and connect that 1,5mm lead to the isolator that has been wired with 4mm wire and fed by a 32A breaker.

The moment you do that, the 1,5mm lead between the isolator and the terminals on the oven becomes part of the installation and the largest breaker allowed for 1,5mm wire is 16A. Even if you replace the 32A breaker with a 20A breaker, it will still not be compliant.

It will be the same as having a 2,5mm geyser circuit on a 20A breaker with 1,5mm wire between the geyser isolator and the geyser terminals. I'm sure we can agree that that's a no no.

There are only 2 correct ways of connecting the oven.

1. Install a socket outlet and plug
it in.

2. You can connect the oven to the isolator but then the wiring between the isolator and the oven terminals must be upgraded to 4mm.

This is the same reason that I will not pass an extractor fan that has been connected to the stove isolator.

[Isetech]

The good news, I found a double socket outlet that has 2 standard socket outlets and 2 of the other silly socket outlets (euro).

Now we have 4 socket outlets per point

They dont have switches but hey, who needs switches on socket outlets? I might fit one with switches in the kitchen, for the snackwich machine.

Now everyone will be happy even the sparkie (IE because it has a 3 phase supply) who has to do a test report on the house. When I am finished I will contact an IE and get a COC, it is going to be interesting to see the test report for this building. I will just tell the person they are selling the property, so that I dont have to issue the COC.

[Dylboy]

Ooooh clever on the someone else to sign ! Someone to do a CoC is a dime a dozen. Very clever.

Also what brand you found that has the 4 outlets per sockets?

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