Lithium batteries

[Isetech]

Everyone says go lithium, they are the future, the new era and all that bullshyte. Some manufacturers are sort of getting it right.

Looking at the Sunsynk battery, the 5.3 kwh is suppose to be the best 1 C rated lithium battery, I wouldn't buy one if it was given to me at half the cost of the Sunsynk 5.1 kwh IP 65 battery. I only install the IP 65 5.1 battery, why because I dont need to keep going to site to plug in my laptop so that I can do firmware updates, the IP 65 battery details down to the cell voltage, number of cycles and all the other important info is displayed on the inverter. One 5.3 kwh battery firmware was so old that we had to first upgrade the firmware so that we could get the new firmware to see it.

I can rack mount the IP 65 without taking up an entire wall to make sure the spacing is correct, I dont have to install a fuse disconnect for every battery, because of the cascade connection on the rack (like the high voltage batteries) I just install one fuse disconnect rated for the max charge current of the inverter they are connected, I save the customer time, space and material costs.

I am told by the supplier that the 5.3kwh battery has better cells than the ip 65 battery, I would like to see real evidence on that comment, just like I am told that they have to be installed with the correct spacing, yeah right it seems the warranty is only compromised if done by a DIYers, you just have to open any social media group and you will notice product spacing isnt a factor. It could be that once you have installed a certain amount you automatically qualify for warranties.

Lets not even start with the locations and the list of regs thrown at us when location is mentioned, yet the manufacturer's home page picture has a pic of a system installed under a stairwell



Beware of the hype, I know, as I am learning more and more about lithium technology and the benefits, there are still many companies which have not got it right, however they are still flooding the market place with batteries and promises.

I am not going to mention any names, but I am sure there are a few of you who have already had experiences with these companies and been bitten, we not just talking about the bigger batteries.

The smaller 7 and 18 amp/hr market is also being flooded with lithium batteries, offering drop in replacements, some even offering fast charger to speed up charging times in gates, electric fence sand alarm systems.

I have got caught in the hype, went out and replaced all my customers batteries with the new better, faster, better backup times due to the lower DOD capabilities and I paying school fees.

Let this be a warning, dont rush out and throw your old FLA battery, until this technology improves.

Like LED lights, in the beginning, I refused to replace the old energy saving lamps with LED, why because the LED technology was not ready for the market, it was more of a lets see if it works, even today there is promises of 50 000 hours, until you try claim under warranty. Even if you write the date of installation on the lamp, The sad state of the power grid is SA is used to cloud over your hopes of a claim.

It cost me a ton of cash to go around and replace all the lithium batteries and fast chargers, which are now also failing. Rather get a FLA fast charger, they might not be the best option but, could extend the life of the FLA battery up to stage 4 load shedding. anything past stage 4, will require a better solution like, solar panels and an inverter.

[Justloadit]

The main problem here is that the market is flooded with 'cheap' products. Customers want cheap products.

I went through this with the LED lighting. I still have lamps going for 8 years now running between 11 and 14 hours a day, but could hardly sell any because I was too expensive. I had to stop the business as I was not selling against the crap cheap stuff. Even today you can buy an LED globe at your local super market for R30.00, and bit of surge or fast rise and fall switching on your mains, and your globe PSU is toast. But I suppose it is easily replaced with another cheapie.

I have even had customers who thought they were saving money in replacing high ceiling chandeliers with the cheapies, and not taking into account of the cost of renting the scaffolding and time to mount and unmount it because it was cost savy to use a cheap LED globe.

Same with the batteries and chargers. I have a number of Lithium Phosphate going now for 10 years in all weather enclosures supporting LED security lighting running of solar panels, where a lead acid would last 7 months, but again had difficulty selling them as they were 18 times the cost of a lead acid. I would have replaced the 18 lead acid batteries by now, and not including the labour cost, as many require some long ladders to get to the enclosures. I checked them recently, and the tests showing the battery are still close to the specifications to the day I installed them.

[Isetech]

LED light fittings and lamps, from my experience.

1/ I installed Radiant floodlights on my house and workshop which I bought on special for R50 for years, they have out lived the replacement floodlight that I have installed. It was a good product, however I have heard they merged with another company.

https://radiant.co.za/

2/ I did a factory upgrade many years ago, replaced all the old 5 ft doubles with LED SA light fittings, I returned after 5 years to find that not one has been replaced yet.

https://www.ledlighting.co.za/

3/ Then there was a Lascon, a quality brand light, I have installed thousands of them in my time, never had any issues with product.


4/ Then there is Nordland, we only install this brand in classified areas. Afrilite are the suppliers.

https://www.afrilitecc.com/

I have learnt that when a company offers you a hand full of product to keep to quiet it best to move far away form that product.

I have had a terrible experiences with companies like MES, they gave box of product to try keep me happy, I dumped the entire box and have stopped installing the product due to failures. I informed them about the defect with their 4x4 switches, I was told they sell R850k worth of product per month, it must be something I am doing wrong, then they advised me that I have to use my pliers to ream the opening so that the switch could operate freely. I am told they have no intention of adjusting the mold.

Due to the lack of quality control, it seems you can even sell reject products now as approved. Anyone who works with PVC male adapters and PVC glands will know the challenges with the rubbish being dumped in the market place.

The only good thing about the crap being dumped in the market palce at the moment, you dont have to feel bad going back every 6 months to replace stuff? Money for the honey

[Derlyn]

I use any light fitting that the client wants except for floodlights. I refuse to use any fitting that is supplied with a 10cm lead. I use any brand whose lead is 30cm or longer.

[Isetech]

You could always fit a R50 flood light with a 1 year warranty that offers a 50 000 hrs life expectancy and extend the cable using a R60 connector and piece of silicon wire than will cost you another R26 to make it longer

Not warranty if installed in SA with unstable power.

I use any light fitting that the client wants except for floodlights. I refuse to use any fitting that is supplied with a 10cm lead. I use any brand whose lead is 30cm or longer.

[Derlyn]

Nope. I crimp with heatshrink and use our "boere" connection box. Short piece of 25mm conduit and a gland on either side. 😆😆 only on condition that the lead is 30cm or longer. ✌️

[Isetech]

I should get it "approved" , but wait you dont need to get things approved anymore, you dump any crap into the market place and just say you bought it from a far east shop, find one of those international approvals written in a language you dont have a clue what it says.

Nope. I crimp with heatshrink and use our "boere" connection box. Short piece of 25mm conduit and a gland on either side.  only on condition that the lead is 30cm or longer. ✌️

[Isetech]

I figured out why nobody wants to share basic lithium installation guidelines, because nobody can actually produce a white paper with the facts, certainly not in SA. It is going to take a long court battle to get to the bottom of safe lithium battery installations. We all know who are the only people who could possibly afford a long court battle, yip guessed right. Is it going to happen, I doubt it, lets just hope you are not the person who becomes the example.


Until someone can come up with evidence proving that you cant install lithium batteries as per the basic guidelines from down under (a small 1st world island) , I think people should stop sharing old documents from old technologies used in a 3rd world country , which are not relevant to new technology.

IF they are so dangerous that they could explode and burn down your house, factory or warehouse, then please explain:

why companies have them stacked on top of each other to the ceiling in warehouses with no warning signs, fire protection and barriers.

how they got certification to be sold in SA, without built in overload protection or what every is required to make them safe, why they are not treated as hazardous products, which should be classified and only installed and signed off by MIE's.

I went to a shop on Saturday and was amongst these highly explosive dangerous boxes, stacked all over the shop, with people walking around then, some out on display where a kid could switch it on by mistake, creating a massive fire risk according to a few clever people on social media.

It time to get over this lithium battery hype, and save customers thousands if not tens of thousands of rands, reduce the fire hazard being produced by installer who have no idea about long runs of under size cable and volt drop, creating an even bigger hazard by installing them in a garage lower than 1.2 m.... should I carry on.

[Isetech]

While I am on a roll... can anyone tell me why I can install a "lithium battery or batteries under my TV in the house where my family spends a lot of time, yet I cant install a sealed IP 65 battery in a sealed metal case, which has all sorts of built in protection and why these batteries sealed in a metal enclosure are not distributed around the world with built in overload protection and an accessible switch disconnector mounted on the units.

I wish people stop talking shyte and the people responsible for ensuring public safety stand up and set the record straight. You playing with peoples lives, or so they say.

[Isetech]

By the way I am not talking about lead acid batteries or gel batteries or AGM batteries, I am talking about lithium lifepo4 batteries, which from my understanding doesn't release explosive gasses during charging, if that was the case why are lifepo4 batteires not fitted with a gas release valve. The laws for FLA and other batteries are not be relevant to lithium batteries... if they are show me the evidence.

[Isetech]

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that lithium batteries are not dangerous and cant burn down your house, I am trying to understand how dangerous they are and who should be installing them.

If solar industry is punting to allow single phase testers or an IE to test and sign off a lithium battery installation, they can be that dangerous.

If they are highly explosive and could catch on fire and burn down your house, then only an MIE should be allowed to install and sign off the installation as reasonably safe ?

There should be a set of regulations specific to each lithium battery type, the safe installation guidelines, precautions, barrier sand any otehr relevant details to create a safe installation.

If you are one of those people trying scare the public about the dangers of these lithium batteries and cutting and pasting old irrelevant documentation, best you get your facts straight and produce documentation that is relevant to that specific type of lithium battery and the dangers they pose to the public, be it standing exposed on a shelf in a shop where anyone has access to the power button, or under your stairwell in your house (as displayed by the manufactures home page... by the way I am told I should follow the manufacturers requirements... if they have it displayed on their web page, then why cant I do it in my house? ).

It is time to stop the bullshyte and get the facts right, we are wasting the publics money, I know people in SA have more money than they need, but it doesnt give us the right to rip them off 'just because we cant get out regulations and facts correct.

[GCE]

The smaller 7 and 18 amp/hr market is also being flooded with lithium batteries, offering drop in replacements, some even offering fast charger to speed up charging times in gates, electric fence sand alarm systems.

I have got caught in the hype, went out and replaced all my customers batteries with the new better, faster, better backup times due to the lower DOD capabilities and I paying school fees.

Let this be a warning, dont rush out and throw your old FLA battery, until this technology improves.

Lithium phosphate batteries are temperature sensitive and the BMS system will shutdown if the temperature rises or drops below spec - Most have settings that they will operate in within +/- 0 to 50 Degrees
A gate motor is often located outside in the sun and the temperature inside the gate motor enclosure can rise to between 15 and 35 degrees higher than ambient temp and there is no breeze cooling them off .
Probable the main reason that they fail in gate motors

[Isetech]

It also has to do with the C rating of the battery. the gate motor could pull more than the battery discharge current.

Lithium phosphate batteries are temperature sensitive and the BMS system will shutdown if the temperature rises or drops below spec - Most have settings that they will operate in within +/- 0 to 50 Degrees
A gate motor is often located outside in the sun and the temperature inside the gate motor enclosure can rise to between 15 and 35 degrees higher than ambient temp and there is no breeze cooling them off .
Probable the main reason that they fail in gate motors

[Isetech]

Education.

Nothing like spending time getting educated on a topic that you can see by the comments in most social media platforms, people have very limited knowledge including myself.

[Isetech]

Lets see what you would consider before rushing out and "investing" in an expensive lithium battery.

The question you should ask yourself is what certification does the battery manufacturer offer, do the certifications comply with the SA standards?

What protection does the battery offer, at a cell level, the type of BMS, fuse protection and circuit breakers ?

Do they offer an operating manual for the installer, with warnings, safe installation and operation instructions ?

Do they have a program in place for the safe disposal of the batteries or cells ?