Lithium batteries

[Isetech]

Something to point out, "IT IS NOT THE ELCTRICIAN OR INSTALLERS RESPONSIBLITY TO PROVIDE SAFETY INFORMATION ABOUT A PRODUCT" what i mean by this comment, you as the electrician or installer dont have to be a design engineer, and understand ever little detail about the battery, the supplier must provide all the risks, safety documentation and notices required for their product. It is then your responsibility to apply the information provided by the supplier.

This is where the suppliers are falling short, where they say you must adhere to the regulations of your country. Yes I agree you must make sure you install as per the suppliers recommendation and regulations, however the SUPPLIER of the battery or equipment must provide all the relevant hazards, dangers, notices required to create a safe installation.

Which takes us back to design, what level is an engineer required ?

This is something that everyone seems to be dodging, at what point does the installation require an engineer to design and inspect the installation ?

At what point does the gasses released from a lithium battery become a problem ?

As most suppliers will tell you that they supply a battery which should be considered safe, why because they have taken all the safety measures into account to reduce the risk of a fire to the absolute minimum , provided you as the installer, read the documentation and apply it as required.

[Isetech]

Something to consider, we understand the lithium battery, installed in the correct working environment should be a safe piece of equipment, however due to lack of knowledge, skills and experience on the installers side, they can become extremely dangerous.

So the solution, either change who can install and certify the installation or add a new field to the industry.

How do we achieve this, simple, only MIE's can sign off the installation, which I dont agree with, why because most MIE's might have gone to tech studied, passed a few tests but may not keep up to date with current technology.

How do we solve this issue, you create a separate field, like gas and electric fence, Solar installer, who must have the correct qualifications, skills and experience to carry out solar installations.

The part which is missing and I am sur eventually will become a rule, credits, you need to gain credits to keep your approval, dont keep up to date with the latest technology, your license is suspended and if not updated within 3 years, you are required to start at the beginning.

[Isetech]

A question: Please attach a link to support your comment.

How many lithium batteries have caught on fire since 2022 ?

I dont want to know how many solar systems have caught on fire, and the battery then burnt, I want to know how many LITHIUM BATTERIES, Lifepo4 specific have caused the fire.

I have heard of many solar systems, but cannot support my comment with facts.

What I have seen is a lot of home made DC so called combiner boxes with burnt components, but not one lithium battery used for a solar installation.

I saw an article the other with a comment that every 6 fires are solar related, anyone have the details about these fires.

[Isetech]

No matter what field you work in, there is phase which is the most important factor to be noted "under normal operating conditions".

What this means, no matter what you are doing you need to apply this phrase, is the lithium battery dangerous "under normal operating conditions". If this answer is yes, then you doing something wrong and need to fix it ASAP.

IF you cant answer the question, you shouldn't be installing lithium batteries. At this point in time, I dont know of one person who can answer this question, I know a lot of very smart, skilled experienced people in the elctrical industry.

Should I be installing lithium batteries, not really, however, in saying that, every single installation that I have completed todate, there has been a lot of time spent analyzing the location before the installation.

The job I am currently busy with has been the most educational, I have learnt more from this installation than all the completed installs put together.

From the roof to the installation location to the earth rod required in the ground, everyday we learn something new.

[Isetech]

There are 1 thing that keeps popping up every time there is a discussion about solar, inverter or batteries... take a wild guess ... yip you are 100% correct, the blame is always pointed at the installer.

Nobody wants to take the blame, its easier just to point at someone else, yet everyone is quite happy to unload their products onto anyone willing to toss a few rand at them, in this case a couple hundred thousand rand.

The way I see it, then maybe we should turn it around and put restrictions on who can purchase solar products, then you will see how quickly everyone will attempt to educate the installers

[Isetech]

Ok we accept its the installers fault, because we are uneducated, ok.

Please share with everyone, a list of courses which are available to us uneducated installers, specific to lithium battery installations, which includes a list of all the documents required for the safe location of lithium batteries, the risks and hazards associated to the installation of lithium batteries.

Better still, we all know that is not possible, just show me a basic guideline for the safe installation of lithium batteries in SA and I dont want to see the Australia basic guidelines I have shared on numerous occasions.

[Derlyn]

Couple of questions.

Can one get insurance for an electric vehicle and if so, can one park it in the garage ? What happens if the batteries in an EV catch alight in the garage ?
Will the insurance pay ?

In Gonubie, I saw a house with the garage burnt as a result of the battery catching fire. The garage and all it's contents as well as the main DB were totally destroyed but due to the firewall, the house itself was saved with no damage.

I'd say, the garage is probably the safest place for the battery, but that's my personal opinion based on what I saw.

[Derlyn]

Did the battery cause the fire?

According to the home owner and the fire brigade ......... yes.

[GCE]

Lets see what you would consider before rushing out and "investing" in an expensive lithium battery.

The question you should ask yourself is what certification does the battery manufacturer offer, do the certifications comply with the SA standards?

What protection does the battery offer, at a cell level, the type of BMS, fuse protection and circuit breakers ?

Do they offer an operating manual for the installer, with warnings, safe installation and operation instructions ?

Do they have a program in place for the safe disposal of the batteries or cells ?

When buying batteries the spec sheet is important to determine if it is 1C etc
Even more important is to read the warranty terms and conditions that are not always forth coming.

There are batteries claiming 1C capabilities along with a 100% spike for 10 sec - When you read the warranty it is 0,2C at 25 degrees along with 80% DOD vs spec at 90DOD and only 1 cycle a day and that before the next cycle starts it is charged to 100%
Other batteries are 1C discharge and 0.5C charge , some have temperature windows of 15degrees to 35 degrees others 20 to 30 degrees or use the 10 year on battery and 5 year on BMS or 10 years and Mwh hours which will be used up before the 1- years

Do not go on the spec sheet alone - make sure you read the warranty terms as well