[Question] COC/Test report a legal document

[Isetech]

Is a COC/test report a legal document?

Would it be treated as a criminal case if reported to the police?

[Isetech]

If your COC/test report is not filled in correctly, the visual inspection and test results are not completed correctly, would it not be fraud?

If it is fraud could the customer open a criminal case against the person who signed the COC document or would it be a civil case?

Considering there are a lot of non compliant COC's doing the rounds and to add fuel to the fire, people who had installation completed in the late 2022 and during 2023 paid as much as R50 - R100 000 more for installation than people are paying now in 2024, even though the exchange rate hasn't really dropped, yet the equipment prices are dropping by the day.

It has left a really sour taste in their mouth, the fact they they paid the highest rate ever for a solar installation and there is a good chance the COC is actually not worth the paper it is written on.

[Dave A]

If your COC/test report is not filled in correctly, the visual inspection and test results are not completed correctly, would it not be fraud?

Laying a charge of fraud has requirements far beyond just proving errors in a document.

[Isetech]

Surely if the document is not filled out correctly that should be regarded as fraud, what more do you need to prove?

Laying a charge of fraud has requirements far beyond just proving errors in a document.

[Isetech]

The definition of fraud

wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
[COLOR=var(--IXoxUe)]"he was convicted of fraud"
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[Thys LOW Elektries]

Doing a COC for R500, without an inspection and sucking a bunch of numbers out of your thumb is fraud and corruption in my eyes. Buildings can burn down, and people can lose their lives, in my eyes, it is a serious offense and the law must act to bring order and justice to those fraudulent COC operators

[Isetech]

The problem with COC's is not the level of competence, it's the fact that we all know that it is a numbers game that we play, the chances of getting is so small that it is worth the risk.

You can write anything on a COC/test report and get away with it, I dont know of 1 COC that has ever got to a point that a case number was even opened.

Which is good news for the elctrical industry, it has become a quick in and out way to make good money, if things are quiet you could just add to the fault list, who is going to know, I dare you to try it with one of my customers, chances are you will be back to fix "all " the non compliant items on the list.

This people is why I encourage the public to get a second opinion and not to sign the transfer documents until you are 100 % sure your COC is worth paper it is written on.

We busy with one right now, the contractor was back on site fixing all the... let me get this right... the regs that have changes since 04/2023.

Stuff like apparently wasn't code last year, DC fuse disconnect for the batteries, double pole isolators for the DC, indicator lights, earth spikes for the inverter supply, neutral earth bond to mention a few.

I have learnt just shake my head and smile.

the bonus is it is a even quicker way to make good money, because you can bill the customer a decent rate and they can claim it from the contractor

The last job the member of an associassion is still whining about the R5000 charged for 4 hours while I sat and watched them fix the non compliant stuff.

[Isetech]

The only way the electrical industry is going to come right, is when the people issuing COC's are held accountable for their actions.

Calling a contractor to ask them nicely to fix non compliant items is certainly not working in the best interest of public safety.

There should be hefty fines imposed for non compliant COC's, 3 strikes the person should have their license revoked and they should be required to redo the entire process.

[Dave A]

Surely if the document is not filled out correctly that should be regarded as fraud, what more do you need to prove?

To win a case of fraud, you have to prove intent to defraud at the level of beyond reasonable doubt - which is not as straight forward as many might think.

The only way the electrical industry is going to come right, is when the people issuing COC's are held accountable for their actions.

100%

Calling a contractor to ask them nicely to fix non compliant items is certainly not working in the best interest of public safety.

It is certainly more effective than trying to lay a charge that is not going to be prosecuted - and may actually put you at risk for laying a false criminal charge.

When you call FRAUD, the contest becomes whether it is fraud or not - and the plainly/easily provable problem of the errors that need to be addressed disappear into the background, and often times, disappear entirely as a result.
The Electrical Installation Regulations refers to offences - I suggest don't blow the winnable case by trying to upgrade the offences to criminal acts.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

Today I had a house with 4 lights not working. The house had a COC and the wiring was a mess. I phoned the contractor and he told me he did not do the wiring or the COC but somebody that worked for him did it. He will investigate the matter and get back to me. A few minutes later a couple of students showed up and after telling them what is wrong and how to fix it, they fixed it.
But the wiring is still a mess, the geyser is still not bonded and the steel structure of the house is not earthed. A legal COC, sloppy COC or faulty COC?!

[Derlyn]

Today I had a house with 4 lights not working. The house had a COC and the wiring was a mess. I phoned the contractor and he told me he did not do the wiring or the COC but somebody that worked for him did it. He will investigate the matter and get back to me. A few minutes later a couple of students showed up and after telling them what is wrong and how to fix it, they fixed it.
But the wiring is still a mess, the geyser is still not bonded and the steel structure of the house is not earthed. A legal COC, sloppy COC or faulty COC?!

2 points, I think, worth mentioning are: ( please correct me if I am wrong )

1) Lights not working does not invalidate a COC. Lights are fixed appliances and as long as the supply is good up to the terminals on the fitting, it passes the COC test.

2) Geyser bonding: As long as continuity can be proven by the test described in 8.6.2 then no external bonding conductors are required.

8.6.2 Continuity of bonding

Test the continuity of the bonding between the consumers earth terminal and all exposed conductive parts using a supply that has a no-load d.c. or a.c. voltage of 4 V to 24 V and a current of at least 0,2A. In each case, the resistance shall not exceed 0,2 Ohms.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

On point 1) The wires from the lights were not connected in the draw box. The red and black wire going to the light was connected to the switch with no supply going to the switch. If make and break were tested, they would have noticed that the lights were not working.

Another thing that tweaks my motor is houses that get a COC with no lights in the house! Just bare wires poking out of the ceiling, how do they know if the lights are working or not, do the lights make and break? Do the two-way light switches work the way they should? Hence I only COC if there are lights that work, that I can test

[Derlyn]

On point 1) The wires from the lights were not connected in the draw box. The red and black wire going to the light was connected to the switch with no supply going to the switch.

Yep, a fail.

Just as an aside:

As far as geyser bonding is concerned, don't even try and explain to insurance companies that external bonding wires are not always necessary. They want to see them on the photos provided, whether necessary or not. ( Insurance companies are now insisting that plumbers send them photos of new geyser installations. Even the cold water pipes need to be lagged. Why, I don't know.

[Isetech]

We are fortunate the public have no idea what is going on with the COC/test reports, even though they are responsible for the electrical installation and insurance are way ahead of the game, they loose anyway you look at it, just pay pay pay.

You just have to look at the ques outside home affairs to realize how tolerant the public choose to be.

I suppose we shouldn't complain, it is like taking candy from a kid, eating it and making the kid pay for it. the best part, chances are being held accountable for doing it, less than 1 %.

I dont know why I waste my time complaining about it, the smart people get rich

I have 5 years to retirement, Its time I got smart and stopped wasting time complaining, if you cant beat them join them. I went rogue from around 2012 till 2015 and boy did I make money, that is when I cut back on all my expenses, like insurances, registrations, bargaining council registration, put my head down and made a killing.

Thank goodness I jumped on the solar band wagon when I did, that really turned things around, now I just have to get smart and start sub contracting all the work out. That way I dont take responsibility for anything. It seems the be the way forward in the solar industry.

It is also why I am busy creating a new consulting company, find a youngster who will be the face of the company, if the shyte hits the fan, I just slide out the back door, close it down, take the money and walk away. 2024 bossiness ethics

[Isetech]

I am with the insurance companies on the geyser bonding , we do it regardless of the test results.

We take a wire from the DB onto the geyser, then form the geyser to the cold water pipe and link it to the hot water pipe as close to the geyser as possible.

If the house has old steel pipes and no earth wires, we run a 6 mm earth from the incoming supply, to the main DB earth bar, make sure all the steel pipes are bonded together, then run a wire to the closest copper pipe, from the main DB to the geyser and link the hot and cold. It sounds like a waste of time and money, I sleep better at night.

The past 40 years working in the elctrical industry have taught me that its not the live wire that is important, the earthing and bonding that saves peoples lives, isnt that what the SANS regs are all about? I am sure it states that in the introduction.

Yep, a fail.

Just as an aside:

As far as geyser bonding is concerned, don't even try and explain to insurance companies that external bonding wires are not always necessary. They want to see them on the photos provided, whether necessary or not. ( Insurance companies are now insisting that plumbers send them photos of new geyser installations. Even the cold water pipes need to be lagged. Why, I don't know.