Socket outlets 3 phase - ELU

[GCE]

Hi
Be interested to hear what you guys think

We have a case at a fast food franchise that is wanting a COC – We are not 100% sure on the build date but think it was around 2006
On inspection we found that no 3 phase kitchen socket outlets have ELU protection

If we look at the installation as a whole there have been revamps done to general electrical in lights , front of house single phase sockets and possible extra single phase sockets and light circuits , signage added
We cannot be 100% sure if there has been work done on the “old” 3 phase socket circuits as in extended or moved 3 phase socket or an extra 3 phase socket added (photos attached )

How do we treat the installation with regards to the missing ELU protection
Do we say it was done prior and complies or would it need to be brought up to present day standards ?

[Derlyn]

Another motivation for fitting an earth leakage is that those particular socket outlets do not appear in 6.7.5.5 as one of those not requiring earth leakage protection.

[Derlyn]

My previous post dissappeared in which I stated that, personally, I would fit an earth leakage as per the recommendation on pg 158 which reads:

"It is recommended that earth leakage protection be installed in all circuits that supply socket outlets in existing installations prior to earth leakage becoming compulsory"
.

[Isetech]

Been down this road and have a T shirt.

I was doing maintenance work for a fast food outlet, got a new build, that's where the real fun began.

Because I was just doing the maintenance work in existing stores, the fact that not one of the stores had ELU connected to any of the 3 phase socket outlets wasn't my problem.

I started the new build and things went bad really quickly, the tiles they use dont play nicely with SDS bits, you have to spend the money on proper diamond ceramic bits.

Light fittings had to be ordered from the Cape, I later found out that nobody actually buys the expensive lights from the Cape, but hey I quoted for them, so I fitted them and I must say I am glad I did, they outlast any other brand (more than 2 years).

Then we got to the kitchen, I thought the silly plug was a joke, all the 3 phase socket outlets are installed directly above the cooker units. You know what happens when steam and electricity mix, yip it doesnt.

I enquired with people in the know, and bought it to their attention that non of the fast food outlets that I had worked in had ELU connected to the 3 phase outlets.

I also enquired about the position of the socket outlets, if the oil catches on fire there is no way you can reach across and switch off or pull the plug.

I was told that it is how the fast food outlets are designed and dont require ELU. I never issued a COC.

I decided to stop doing work for fast food outlets because of the risk involved. I got a call from the fast company 3 years after I completed the project, they requested the COC. I informed them that due to the design, I could not issue a COC.

[Isetech]

Look carefully at the picture you posted, I do realize the extractor is designed to move sufficient air (steam) that the IP rating shouldn't be a factor, but come on, really.

Its great that the socket outlet is within arms reach and all that stuff, what happens if the oil catches on fire, how do you switch off?

I dont think your biggest concern is the date ELU became a requirement.

I would contact the design engineer for the fast food outlets and get a copy of the document which stats that ELU are not required due to the design at the time of the build, and attach it to your COC.

I chose not to issue a COC, so unfortunately I dont have a copy of the document.

[Isetech]

Something else you might want to look at, the wiring in the trunking, when you open the trunking in some places they full of oil, if so are the wires rated for that application.

[GCE]

All the stores we do now a days have ELU on 3 phase sockets - Problem with the older stores that were done before the regulation came out with regards to ELU on 3 phase sockets is, what do you do now as per my original post

[Isetech]

I got a reply from the person who normally assists me with these kind of technical questions.

I cannot mention the name of the outlet, but one of the fast food outlets apparently do or did have special exemption from SABS for their appliances, others may not.

Considering the nuisance tripping that will occur due to the moisture, steam and oil, I could only see many headaches if an ELU is connected.

I cannot for the life of me understand why weather proof isolators are not installed on a wall in the same room away from the appliance, but hey a much smarter person with a degree might be able to explain.

[GCE]

I got a reply from the person who normally assists me with these kind of technical questions.

I cannot mention the name of the outlet, but one of the fast food outlets apparently do or did have special exemption from SABS for their appliances, others may not.

Considering the nuisance tripping that will occur due to the moisture, steam and oil, I could only see many headaches if an ELU is connected.

I cannot for the life of me understand why weather proof isolators are not installed on a wall in the same room away from the appliance, but hey a much smarter person with a degree might be able to explain.

I am not aware of any that have exemptions - We have no nuisance tripping but you must put in a ELU per 3 machines
The reason it was done is so they/staff can change a machine out , put it on the truck back to head office for repair etc - No electrician needed to disconnect - Also helps when they deep clean that they can move equipment out of the way

[AndyD]

Given that the regulation ammendments aren't retrospective, if there's reasonable evidence that the install was done before the earth leakage requirement ammendments and there's no signs of the circuits having been altered since their installation I would say they are exempt.

[Isetech]

That makes sense, and considering you mentioned they have been there since 2006 and they still work, shows maybe its not such an extreme environment.

I recall the shops we worked in the electrics took a proper beating. I use to hate working working in the fast food shops, peeling off fat from the fitting to get to the screws, eeeeish not something I miss. the hit and run revamp fellas were in and out ASAP.

I am not aware of any that have exemptions - We have no nuisance tripping but you must put in a ELU per 3 machines
The reason it was done is so they/staff can change a machine out , put it on the truck back to head office for repair etc - No electrician needed to disconnect - Also helps when they deep clean that they can move equipment out of the way

[Isetech]

This is an interesting topic, with many considerations to take into account.


1/ Is the location suitable for a socket outlet?

2/ Should it be treated as a stationary or portable appliance it has wheels and is moved around. It is certainly not a fixed appliance.

3/ Can the socket be mounted directly above the appliance?

4/ Should it be a dedicated socket outlet not connected to an ELU?

6/ Should the socket be IP rated, considering the location, but also taking into account that there is an extractor fan which can create enough air movement to reduce the impact of the heat and moisture?

7/ The type of cable used to connect the appliance to the socket outlet, heat and oil resistant, and double insulated.

I am sure this topic has been discussed in detail with a panel of engineers for them to be exempt from ELU protection for certain fast food outlets (if that is the case, which I am sure it was, considering the source of the information).

It is a topic that would certainly require some consideration.

If you walked in the room and just looked at the location of the socket in comparison to the appliance, during normal operation your first impression would be ... who would be so stupid as to install a socket directly above an appliance like a chip fryer, with all that heat and moisture" but clearly the cost factor to install ELU for ever single 3 phase socket outlet in the shop"


6.16.1.1 Fixed appliances do not form part of the electrical installation other than their positioning in relation to the supply and the wiring carried out between different parts of the appliances.

b) a socket-outlet that is directly accessible at all times that any person is exposed to such appliance while the supply is on. In the case of a remotely installed appliance, the position of the disconnecting device shall be indicated by means of a notice in close proximity to or on the appliance.


NOTE The socket-outlet has to be protected against earth leakage so, unless the protection device (see (b)) is in the control unit, the entire cooking appliance circuit has to be protected against earth leakage.


b) a socket-outlet that complies with SANS 60309-1 (industrial type) with 30 mA earth leakage protection, however, the use of industrial type socketoutlets is not recommended for stove connections.


6.16.3 Cooking appliances NOTE Cooking appliances include built-in stoves, oven hobs, and the like (see also 6.16.1).

6.16.3.1 Switch-disconnector6.16.3.1.1 The circuit that supplies a cooking appliance through fixed wiring, a stove coupler (see 6.16.3.3), or an industrial type socket-outlet (see SANS 60309-1), shall have a readily accessible switch-disconnector. The switch-disconnector may supply more than one appliance.

6.16.3.1.2 A switch-disconnector for a cooking appliance(s) shall a) be in the same room as the appliance(s), b) be at a height above floor level of not less than 0,5 m and not more than 2,2 m,c) preferably not be above the cooking appliance(s), d) be within 3 m of the appliance(s), but within 0,5 m of the appliance(s) if the switch-disconnector's purpose is not clearly indicated, and



Not forgetting the OSHACT, I am sure there is a bunch of regs that should also be considered.

[Isetech]

You also need to consider that some of the appliance connected to the socket outlets are sealed during normal operation and not open.

[Derlyn]

For me, it's quite simple.

Had that installation been built yesterday, it would be a requirement for those socket outlets to be on earth leakage.
That cannot be disputed.

I cannot remember once ever not fitting an earth leakage to circuits that require them, irrespective of the date that the installation was installed.
A socket outlet, without earth leakage protection, installed in 1990 has the same potential of injury or death as one installed yesterday without earth leakage protection.

That is the reason why SANS has an Amdt 1 recommending that earth leakage be installed on all circuits requiring same, irrespective of the installation date.

In answering GCE's original query, I think it's the right thing to install earth leakage protection and I would use the above recommendation as motivation.


Have a lekker weekend.

[Isetech]

I wish it was that simple, not all socket outlets have to be on earth earth leakage.

For me, it's quite simple.

Had that installation been built yesterday, it would be a requirement for those socket outlets to be on earth leakage.
That cannot be disputed.

I cannot remember once ever not fitting an earth leakage to circuits that require them, irrespective of the date that the installation was installed.
A socket outlet, without earth leakage protection, installed in 1990 has the same potential of injury or death as one installed yesterday without earth leakage protection.

That is the reason why SANS has an Amdt 1 recommending that earth leakage be installed on all circuits requiring same, irrespective of the installation date.

In answering GCE's original query, I think it's the right thing to install earth leakage protection and I would use the above recommendation as motivation.


Have a lekker weekend.