Stove isolator positioning.

[Derlyn]

Just a quick one.

If the DB is in the kitchen less than 3 meters away from the stove, then the stove isolator may be in the DB clearly labelled " stove isolator".

True or false ?


Another one. The regulation stating that there may not be a socket outlet under a gas hob has been ammended as from Jan 2025.
There may now be a socket outlet in the space under a gas hob.

[GCE]

Just a quick one.

If the DB is in the kitchen less than 3 meters away from the stove, then the stove isolator may be in the DB clearly labelled " stove isolator".

True or false ?

First thought True now reading it a 2nd time not 100% convinced - It does not mention in a DB that is accessible - In the old wooden backing board days there was a C.B and then an isolator mounted on the DB wooden board indicated as stove
Also if it is hidden in a cupboard , I would say no
If they were going to allow it to be an SPN then I would think they would use the same statement as 6.16.1.4 and would have included that under 6.16.3 Cooking Appliances - They have not , and so I would say False

6.16.1.4 The disconnecting device shall be positioned
a) within 1,5 m from the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board (if the switch-disconnector is capable of being locked
in the open position).


6.16.3.1.2 A switch-disconnector for a cooking appliance(s) shall
a) be in the same room as the appliance(s),
b) be at a height above floor level of not less than 0,5 m and not more than
2,2 m,
c) preferably not be above the cooking appliance(s),
d) be within 3 m of the appliance(s), but within 0,5 m of the appliance(s) if the
switch-disconnector's purpose is not clearly indicated, and
e) not be fixed to the appliance

Another one. The regulation stating that there may not be a socket outlet under a gas hob has been ammended as from Jan 2025.
There may now be a socket outlet in the space under a gas hob.

I have not seen the new edition of SANS 10087-1:2024 ( Ed 7) - do you have an extract of the change - It was always under section 9
I Cannot give you a str answer on that one until I get to read the latest edition - Thanks for bringing that up , it made me go look to see if there is a new edition now to get my hands on it


Extract from SANS 10087-1 ed 6

9 Electrical equipment and other sources of ignition
Where electrical equipment is placed within the safety distance as specified in figures 3, 4 and 6
such equipment shall be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108.
Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any
burner and potential point of gas release. Where it is necessary to install a gas hob together with an
electric oven, a three-point plug socket shall not be used to connect the electric oven. A proper
isolator switch shall be in place above the level of the hob and it shall have at least 200 mm
clearance from the hob.
No electrical connection shall be made below the hob. See figures 3 and 4 for further connections.

[Derlyn]

@GCE Thank you as always for your prompt input.

See https://thegasman.co.za/pages/2024-n...b%20or%20stove. for the new socket outlet specs.

I have recently had 2 cases where the stove isolators were in the DB with a notice at the stove which read " stove isolator in DB ".
The DB's in both cases were less than 3 meters from the stove. I gave them a pass. I'm sure that anyone seeing the designer tiling around the stove area would have done the same.

Also interesting is that they say the isolator must be at least 200mm to the left or right of the appliance, so basically it's not allowed to be anywhere between the hob and extractor fan irrespective of the distance from the hob.


Granted, this is text from the The Gas Man, however I'm sure they are on top of the latest regulations.

[GCE]

Also interesting is that they say the isolator must be at least 200mm to the left or right of the appliance, so basically it's not allowed to be anywhere between the hob and extractor fan irrespective of the distance from the hob.


Granted, this is text from the The Gas Man, however I'm sure they are on top of the latest regulations.

Had the discussion with gas guys on a platform with attorneys

The picture shows to the side - the actual written regulations says " Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any burner and potential point of gas release"
The written reg does not say left or right just 200mm from burner which again is not 200mm from each of hob - The pic is for illustration and the written reg needs to be read and understood - If they wanted it left or right then surely they would have side that
That was ed 6 - need to look at ed7

[Derlyn]

Ok. Attached is a page from edition 7 as forwarded to me by a gas installer.



It talks about at least 200mm horizontally from the edge of the closest burner.

It does not however mention to the left or right if viewed from the front, so , if the back burners are more than 200mm from the wall, then the isolator , if mounted on the wall directly behind the hob does comply with the 200mm horizontal measurement.

What confuses me is the 1500mm from the floor.

Any thoughts ?

[GCE]

Ok. Attached is a page from edition 7 as forwarded to me by a gas installer.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]8979[/ATTACH]

It talks about at least 200mm horizontally from the edge of the closest burner.

It does not however mention to the left or right if viewed from the front, so , if the back burners are more than 200mm from the wall, then the isolator , if mounted on the wall directly behind the hob does comply with the 200mm horizontal measurement.

What confuses me is the 1500mm from the floor.

Any thoughts ?

Can only shake my head in bewilderment - Gas guys should stick to gas and not interfere in electrical regulations
Somebody dropped the ball and as far as I am aware the gas and ECA were talking to align the regs - this is going to create even more issues

[Derlyn]

Some time back I reluctantly did a COC inspection for a house transfer. I say reluctantly because, as a norm, that is not
One of my regular income streams. I hate doing them. Be that as it may.

I repaired what needed repairing, did my final tests successfully and issued the coc.

A week later I received a call from the transferring attorney saying that the gas technician was refusing to issue a gas certificate because the stove isolator was too close to the hob and needed to be moved. I told them to send me an email to that effect. They did so.

I then emailed them stating that the electrical installation was compliant. If it was not, I would not have issued the coc.
I told them that if the hob was installed too close to the isolator then the hob needs to be moved, alternatively, the gas technician can employ an electrician of his choice to relocate the isolator to his satisfaction, but it won't be me.

Never heard from either one of them again.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

Renovating your kitchen? Please notify your electrician/builder to follow the below regulation.

Electrical equipment, such as light switches and plugs, shall be at least 200 mm away from any burner and potential point of gas release.
Where it is necessary to install a gas hob together with an electric oven, a three-point plug socket shall not be used to connect the electric oven. A proper isolator switch shall be in place above the level of the hob and it shall have at least 200 mm clearance from the hob.
If your electrician wants to add a plug point, This can be used but only in a partition that doesn't house the cylinder or hob. This is due to arcing between the 2 points.
No electrical connection such as a plug point or switch shall be made below the hob. This will be in accordance with the requirements of SANS 10108

Quote from The Gasman: https://thegasman.co.za/pages/intern...%202%20points.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

6.16.3.1.2 a) Says switch-disconnector must be in same room c) preferably not above cooking appliance d)within 3m of the appliance if marked clearly, otherwise 0.5m distance
I prefer to put an isolator next to the stove, then you don't have to reach over the stove to switch it off.
I had also used 2 pole breakers for stoves in a classroom kitchen setup, the db was in the same classroom and there were no safe place to put the isolators on the flat island countertops
Hope this helps

[Derlyn]

Beware of The Gasman's writings. They do differ from the gas regulations.

The regulations state that a plug may be installed in any cupboard except where the cylinder is housed. The regulations do not mention hob, only cylinder.

This means that a plug is allowed below the hob.

What does one do when a stove consisting of a gas hob / electric oven combination comes supplied with a 3 pin plugtop ?
Do we then ignore the manufacturer specifications, cut off the plug and connect it to a stove circuit through an isolator or plug it into a socket outlet ?

[Derlyn]

6.16.3.1.2 a) Says switch-disconnector must be in same room c) preferably not above cooking appliance d)within 3m of the appliance if marked clearly, otherwise 0.5m distance
I prefer to put an isolator next to the stove, then you don't have to reach over the stove to switch it off.
I had also used 2 pole breakers for stoves in a classroom kitchen setup, the db was in the same classroom and there were no safe place to put the isolators on the flat island countertops
Hope this helps

On new installations it's easy to position the isolator to the side of the hob, however, on existing installations, it's sometimes not that simple to relocate isolators that are above the hob, especially when there's tiling involved.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

I have installed a plug in the cupboard to the left of the stove and cut a hole in the panel so that the plug can be plugged in on the left side. This is great for new installations, where you can plan it from the beginning. The rest of the time, there is an isolator at the top and a plug below the counter for the hob and oven, preferably Crabtree 16 Amp double.
Here by us most houses have a 25Amp point of supply from the council and if you are lucky a 30Amp or 40Amp supply. Most houses have gas stoves or gas hobs with built-in ovens, both need a plug to work from. We even have a couple of gas heaters that work from a 16Amp plug! What is wrong with 2 Eveready batteries?

[Derlyn]

Just a quick question regarding this stove isolator issue.

I have now once again received communication from a client that the gas gas guy is refusing to issue a gas certificate because the isolator is above the hob.

There is designer tiling involved.

Eight years ago when I last issued a coc for this installation, it was compliant.

As far as I know, the installation must be tested according to the regulations that were relevant at the time of construction or if any changes or additions are made then the regulations relevant at the time these changes were made should be adhered to.

Am I correct ?

Do the gas technicians follow the same approach and if not, my question is, what makes them unique ?

This installation was compliant 8 years ago and no changes have been made other than new gas regulations being introduced.

I was under the impression that a phasing in approach should be adopted when new regulations are introduced, but this doesn't seem to be the approach that the gas guys are taking. As far as they are concerned, every installation, irrespective of when it was installed must comply with the new regulations.

Why the difference in approach between the electrical and gas trades ?

It's driving me insane.

[Tradie]

Simple, is it non compliant, yes, steps must be taken to make it compliant, both electrical and gas. It is the customers responsibility to make sure it is safe. Issue a danger notice and a quote to make it complaint (CYA).

[Derlyn]

My question was

Why the difference in approach between the gas and electrical inspections ?

Any idea ?