Process for creating your own COC numbers

[Thys LOW Elektries]

Good day, we have an electrical contractor who issues COC's with his very own COC number.
Apparently it is legal? My question is, if it is legal, what is the process to follow if you want to go this route?
What are the advantages of doing your own number system against buying printed forms with a number on it?

[Tradie]

There is no data base or records for COC's, so why would you be concerned about a numbering system, so long as the contractor keeps records of COC's issued and the document has all the required information as laid out in the regs, I Can't see why you cannot create your own.

I have piles of old yellow 4 page COC, purchased many years ago, an updated copy of the new COC, I just use the number from the old COC to the new format. Once they are finished, I will probably make my own numbers.

In an ideal world, we would have a database where every every COC issued would be recorded and accessible to anyone working on the site.

[Dave A]

There is no data base or records for COC's, so why would you be concerned about a numbering system

Under definitions in the Electrical Installation Regulations 2009:

"certificate of compliance" means -
a) a certificate with a unique number obtainable from the chief inspector, or a person appointed by the chief inspector, in the form of Annexure 1 J and issued by a registered person in respect of an electrical installation or part of an electrical installation; or

The "or" bit isn't relevant to the current issue of certificates - it is to deal with certificates issued prior to the 2009 regulations.

[Derlyn]

I cannot understand why someone would use their own numbers, considering that the price of the coc booklets from ECA are so reasonable.

At least the ECA keeps record of which numbers are issued to which contractor should any future disputes arise.

[Tradie]

You would think that because it is supposed to be a legal document, people would treat it as such.

Like a signed PDF, all COC's should have unique number be captured and stored for future reference by anyone with SP, IE, MIE, engineer status.

Random checks should be carried at least once a month and the registered person should be held accountable for errors or non compliance.

Every 5 years every registered person should be required to do a competency assessment in the field they are registered.

A number at the top of the page is least of our problems in this industry, but hey who's checking

[GCE]

Under definitions in the Electrical Installation Regulations 2009:

"certificate of compliance" means -
a) a certificate with a unique number obtainable from the chief inspector, or a person appointed by the chief inspector, in the form of Annexure 1 J and issued by a registered person in respect of an electrical installation or part of an electrical installation; or

The "or" bit isn't relevant to the current issue of certificates - it is to deal with certificates issued prior to the 2009 regulations.

Problem is that Chief inspector does not have such a data base and as far as I am aware has not appointed anybody the way I understand
We have self appointed organizations that have created data bases and would therefore see no reason to stop someone from creating there own database
Correct me if I am wrong.

With that said , Derlyn is correct , why go through the trouble of creating your own when ECA pricing is reasonable and especially the electronic format that keeps a record of each COC issued in it's complete format which we have used to go back and find and send a copy if needed.

Again I think it is members only which is why guys create there own electronic format

What has always been interesting is that ECA sells almost double the amount of COC's to non members then it does to members .

My theory is that there are double the amount of electrical contractors running around out there that are not members - I know it will be thrown back that ECA represents over 60% of contractors registered with NBCEI - I throw back that, that is dream land and the vast majority do not belong to NBCEI and therefore it would appear that ECA only represent 20% of people doing electrical contracting work.

[Tradie]

For the record, I must say, a project I was involved in where a COC was issued with a few non compliant issues, was eventually sorted out with the help of a person appointed by the ECA.

Kudos to the ECA, for sorting it out. The only question now, will the member return to all the other installations they have completed and signed off and make them compliant, yes, we have identified another site which seems to have the same issues, but it is not one of my customers, so it is not my concern.

Back to unique numbers, lets try fix improve the industry by creating a register with unique numbers than works for EVERYONE in the industry.

[Tradie]

GCE, I am all for improving this industry, even though it may not sound like it. I was a members of the ECA for more than 10 years, still have my certificate in my office, it looks like it is an old treasure map it is so old.

I believe we should find ways to make more small businesses want to join some form of association and be part of the bargaining council, maybe look at a turnover percentage to be paid for membership.

If only a very small percentage is registered with the ECA and bargaining council, maybe it is time to look at ways to address the challenges, identify the reason and align the ECA and bargaining council with the contractors, rather than trying to force an old system that clearly is not working.

You couldn't have a bus stop on a freeway in SA, we now have bus stops on freeways, would it benefit everyone, if 80 % of electrical contractors were members.

Electrical wholesaler could have a huge impact on the electrical industry, It's were we all get together and share stories or rant about the industry.

There are so many groups with 999 plus members just in the solar industry, imagine if people started utilising the groups in a positive manner.

The technology is available, its finding the right people to take the step.

[Derlyn]

What are the advantages of doing your own number system against buying printed forms with a number on it?

None.

[Thys LOW Elektries]

Being out here in the outback of civilization causes our unique problems, one of them is getting COC forms when you need them.
A 270km drive to the closest supplier of COC booklets do solve that problem, I on the other hand buy e-COC forms online, once you have paid for them you get them, no road trip needed to a supplier.
I have been dragged into a debate on the e-COC forms because the COC forms were not yellow and the number on the COC form were handwritten.
My main concern with a contractor issuing his own numbers is: "What happens in 5 years' time" Will the contractor still have record that he had issued the coc with that specific number? What if his laptop with numbers of the coc's issued get stolen or the hard drive crashes? What record does he then have on the coc numbers?
I'm glad to see the majority of contractors agree with me, the COC forms are so cheap, why bother creating your own form and serial number?
In a perfect world there would be a place where you could upload your COC into a National Database where an inspector can check every COC uploaded, and also for future reference it would be easy to get a copy of a coc issued when needed.

Enjoy your weekend
Greetings

[Tradie]

The document is suppose to be a legal document, so there should be s data base recording every "unique" COC/test report issued , which should be filled out correctly, with all the relevant details.

I wish you luck trying to find a 5 year old COC, and even if you do, I wish you luck trying to get the person back to site to fix non compliant items.

[skatingsparks]

I cannot understand why someone would use their own numbers, considering that the price of the coc booklets from ECA are so reasonable.

At least the ECA keeps record of which numbers are issued to which contractor should any future disputes arise.

And when there is a dispute they seem not to care.

Client of mine is having an issue with a CoC issued by an ECASA member for a property in Cape Town.
VIR (rotten at he socket and switch boxes so extended with PVC - tells me the VIR has failed if it needs to be extended), rusted and broken slip conduits from the early 50's both of which, in my book is an instant fail just on the visual inspection side of things. They even had nice colour photographs of the issues but said it ok

ECA said it was tested to the standards at the time (?!?!?!?!) and stood by their members COC.

Cancelling My ECA memebership in July when it runs out - if thats their standard - I don't want to pay to be part of it.

[Tradie]

Why is the number on the COC so significant, the number is recorded for the sale of a blank COC document only, there is no identification or reference to the document once it is sold.

By the way the COC/test report can be saved as a blank to PDF, then filled in using PDf tools. As I said I haven't purchased a COC document since I figured out how to create the PDF.

The only relevance the number has to anything, might be if you want to take action against the person who issued the COC, if they are a member of the ECA, you can contact them and attempt get the member to go to site and fix the non compliant items and issue a valid document, If the COC has an NM, you pretty up a creek without a paddle, unless the customer has the funds to take legal action, we all know how that plays out.



The "legal"document is completed by a registered person who is registered on a database.

The document has the address of the property, the details of the DB and circuits covered by the COC and most import the date of issue, because as we know the regs at that time are relevant because we all keep copies of the regs since the 19th century.

The details including the contractors details, registered person details, contact number, signature, registration number address and every other relevant detail is on the document.

Lets say I need to work on a site and I want to verify if there has been any test reports/COC's issued for the property in the past, do I contact the ECA (who sell the documents) and ask for the list of documents sold, relating to the property, would they be able to provide me with that list of numbers ?

[Derlyn]

When I work on a site, I only request a COC for the site after I have completed the work requested.

If the owner then shows me the COC, I then issue a supplementary to attach to the original.

If the owner doesn't have a COC, I then issue an original for only the work I've done.

Keep it simple.

[Derlyn]

I cannot prove the following, but judging from my own past experiences, I reckon that less than 50% of home owners 1) possess a COC or 2) know where it is or 3) know that they are supposed to have one.

Don't know if that's the case everywhere but that's definately the case here in our Slummies valley.