UK Electrician... just don't know what else to do...

[skatingsparks]

One last question...

Just read through the paper work on that course. I need to do "valuation of previously coached or self inspection and test results collected by you"

I don't have any, did weeks of testing when I was working at the airport, just never kept any of it. Didn't think I would need it again. I worked with an installation electrician and once he saw that I knew what I was doing he let me get on with it he, checked the results and that was it. Never kept copies of any of teh COC's or any of the test results.

Signed of 100's of jobs in the UK and have a few bits an piece on that.

Do you think I will need them?? did you have to take any with you when you did the course?

I'll phone them Monday but today, I'm making plans, booking flight, hotels, cars etc....

Thanks

[Jacques#1]

One last question...

Just read through the paper work on that course. I need to do "valuation of previously coached or self inspection and test results collected by you"

As far as I know (and I may be wrong on this one, seeing as you're qualifications is a little different than mine):

The fact that you are demonstrating practically your knowledge on the course satisfies the requirement of the unit standard to have eg. 2 practical examples. They will definitely keep the COC's you complete on the course as your evidence. I had no practical experience as a) at the time this was not my core business, and b) I asked other guys if I could join them on site, but they were reluctant as they have to sign you off etc. So the short answer, I think you're fine?

[darkblueltd]

Hi Skatingsparks,

I myself did my qualification in the UK, ive been here for 10 years and im moving back to SA at the end of the year.

I currently hold.
C&G 2330 levels 2 & 3
C&G 2356 NVQ level 3
C&G 2391 Testing and Inspection
17th Edition

Did you eventually get your qualification transfered?
If so, what did you eventually need to do and whats the best way to do this?

Seemed like you had quite a nightmare getting things sorted, man I hope I dont struggle as much as you did!

look forward to hearing from you.

[skatingsparks]

Hi dark blue.

Yep I got it sorted eventually. Right, to save you a year of life messing around this is the way I went.
Take all your papers to SAQA, emphasize the NVQ 3, thats what equates to NQF 4. If you have NQF 4 you don't need a trade test and after working 10 years you probably don't need to anyways. Trade tests here seem pointless, no offence, but I haven't met many people who have a trade test who I would say that they are electricians.

In the mean time your going to have to do your wiring regs course here papers 1 and 2. I went to the ECA, they run the course over weekends over 8 weeks. The exam is insanely hard. Seriously, even if you know your stuff they put things in there that you will never have come across or ever likely to come across. If your coming to Joburg, speak to Chris Koen at the ECA, he's a good guy. Its hard, you will have to study. Its not like the 17th edition exam, where you just need to know how to use a refernce book, here you going to need to practically memorise the book(s). Seriously HARD! 130 people took they exam the day I did and 2 passed.

You also need to do the unit standards of testing a three phase commercial industrial installation and the unit standards for completing a Certificate of compliance. Do yourself a favor. Phone the the WCAEIA in cape town. Find out when they are running the course and pay. (http://www.wcaeia.co.za/)
I got messed around a lot trying to get these unit standards. Lots of places told me I need to be doing tests and inspections on different installations and compiling a little portfolio. If you got the City and Guilds testing and inspecting you will laugh at how simple this one is. You got to have the bit of paper though, because TIA. If you don't want to be messed around just get to Cape Town, Pay your money, do the course and its done. They don't mess you around at the WCAEIA.

Once you have your SAQA assessment(the part requiring patience, especially if they loose your papers, twice) , your wiring regs papers 1 and 2 (the hard part, study and study hard) and your unit standard for testing a 3 phase installation and completing a COC(er.. nice trip to cape town) then you just apply to the Department Of Labor. All the links are on this forum somewhere. If you can't find them let me know. Takes 8b week sonce all that is at teh DOL

Hope it helps. Contact me if you need anything.

[skatingsparks]

oh, bring a tester with you, the fluke 1653B is around 25000 rand over here, I bought mine over from the UK and it cost less than half that, although they charged me Zuma Added Tax when I shipped it over. Still cheaper though.

[darkblueltd]

Thanks man. Really appreciate the help.
Whats the money like? You Contracting now or perm?

[murdock]

how much for a 1653b in the uk?

[skatingsparks]

No worries darkblue. Just started my own company, pay working for other people not great. Its starting slowly as with all new companies but its picking up. On the domestic front, I just can't compete with the prices the bakkie brigade are quoting on domestic work, small jobs etc. They come in, make it work, then go sit back outside the Builders Warehouse, even though they are not registered electricians and are not supposed to be doing electrical work. Like I said, can't compete with that. quoting on commercial works seems more promising.

Murdock, fluke1653b was £635 or about 7000 rand depending on the exchange rate. Paid Fedex another £90 (insured for up to £500) to send it and got screwed on Zuma Added Tax when it arrived in SA, which was about another R1100. The customs people classed it as high value item when it was sent over so ZAT was added. I don't know if you can find it cheaper than 25000 rand here. Fantastic tester though worth 9000 rand easy, worth 25000 no I don't think so.

[Jacques#1]

If you speak to fluke eu, they say you cannot buy the fluke in another country except SA since fluke SA (comtest) has all the rights in SA. I shopped around and found guys who were willing to sell me the fluke over the net . They just need the bucks!! Comtest did however mention that they will not back me up if it breaks.......it is still selling in SA for R32k excluding VAT, so I'll still send it back to the uk, have it serviced, and it will still be a bargain!! Besides, I am certain you can have it serviced at a place like RS components, it might not be cheap, but they will help you.

Lets discuss this, why is it so expensive here?????? Imagine you buy the thermal imager in the uk instead of here, you'll save about R100k??????? The guys in SA is really ripping us off!! And, I believe that the shouldn't have asked you import duty, since the meter has a memory function, and a cpu, it is classed as a (can't remember the right word...but) computer/tester.....no import duties. The guys probably didn't know better and stuffed up the waybill, or the customs guys just did not have a clue...

[skatingsparks]

Your right Jaques, shouldn't have had to pay import tax but when the tester was sent from the UK it was sent as a "electrical installation tester" and it was then classified as an "electrical appliance" which they can apparently make you pay ZAT on, not as tool of the trade which should be ZAT free. When it arrived i was contacted by Fedex and they said i either pay or it will take time to reclassify it and there is one thing i have learnt about this country is don't do anything outside the norm, don't rock the boat, especially when it comes to paper work. like you said "The guys probably didn't know better and stuffed up the waybill, or the customs guys just did not have a clue..." I have sent stuff through normal post to and from the UK and it hardly ever makes it so rather than run the risk of loosing it or it getting held up for weeks I just paid. Besides if/when i get VAT/ZAT regestered I'll be able to claim it back , right?

If Comtest won't back you up, so what. Why would I buy from them when there products are 3 times the price so even if my fluke(high quality superbly built tough as nails tester probably last years anyways) breaks it'll still be cheaper to buy a new one from the UK. I'll just get RS to calibrate it once a year, sorted. Just pricing them selves out the market. Probably one of the reasons why over half the COC's I see have made up results on them, because proper test gear is so insanely expensive here. Even if the numbers are made up there is no one to chase those who make up the COC's.
You can't justify a 30000 rand price tag on a meter because you'll never make that money back all the time there are people just making the numbers up and charging next to nothing for the COC. You just can't compete.

[murdock]

i purchased over R150 000.00 worth of fluke equipment a couple of years ago...i could have gone to america purchased the equipment had a nice holiday in florida and come home with money in my pocket...but at the time i thought buying all that equipment better to get the backup service and warrenty...no comment.

lets not even talk about instrument and software training...i still just read the manuals and figue things out myself...it also doesnt help the supply company is in JHB.

i am considering flying to the uk visiting family... purchasing the 1653b and flying home it will be cheaper than buying it here.

[bret owen beets]

OK my name is Bret i saw the sh%$ you have gone through . no wories i know how you feel . im trying to get organised for N.Z .Something you dont want to hear . This N.Q.F 1,2,3,4, is worth f all when i did my trade test ther where guys with N.Q.F 4 that had to re-do there trade test cause from end of this year its worth toilet paper. your trade test has to be a red seal. All you need to do to get started is get hold of a place where i did my trade test . Only thing its in joburg the trsde test is two days and it takes a week or two and your in.you will be old and grey if u go with olifonts. once youve done that they can also do a weeks course with them and get u single phase wiremans (singlephase tester) u can b a registered contractor. no one can touch u. if u want call me theres a whole lot of info and correct no.s u can call. p.s what the hell u battling to get in and im battling to get the hell out of here before the lights go out

[Sparks]

I think I did leave a comment before. Your problem rings a bell. I have however this last suggestion. Take a look at http://www.ecbsa.co.za/ there is a document saying what papers you need and another which you need to complete. After waiting so long I hope you are successful this time. In my case the testing institution did all the paperwork and I recieved my accreditation certificate through the post.

[skatingsparks]

So in 2013 I'm still here. The amount of people who have contacted me regarding getting there license sorted out over here has been surprising. I think all the other post say what you need to do to get your license. The reason I come back onto this thread is to say, not in a negative way but in a save your self the time kind of way.

Things to consider.

If you quote to do a C.O.C. on a house which is up for sale to you will be under cut. No, people do not want to pay a proper electrician to do a full a proper test on there property, they want to pay as little as possible to get that yellow piece of paper. I personally, with all my transport fees, registrations fees, accountancy fees, VAT, tax, my assistants wages, medical aid etc. can not compete with someone who will come in and do it for R600 and sign an installation off without even looking at it which I will never do.

Also, generally the people who you quote against for any job often undercut you. This is business, I get that. An example would be that I quoted on running 3 aircon supplies. I quoted on 4mm flat twin and earth cable, because of the length of the run, used CBI breakers to match the customers existing as they requested and installing double pole isolators at the aircon points. I came in low on my quote because I wanted to get my foot in the door and the possibility of further work. The company who got the job, ran the circuits in 2.5mm flat, fed 2 of the aircons of one circuit and used the (much cheaper) Lear (32Amp !!!!) circuit breakers and didn't bother with double pole isolators. This is what your up against.


There is no one to do anything about those who don't do things to the book here.

Another crazy thing is that running costs are higher here for me here. I run my business from home (small flat) but because of the cost of accountancy fees(they also sort out everything with SARS for me because otherwise I would spend hoooooooours talking to idiots there), transport, fuel and insurance my charges need to be HIGHER than what I needed to charge when I was working in London!? Also because there are standards in the UK, Australia, New Zealand and even Egypt(the other paces I have worked) there is more of an even playing field when it comes to quoting a job.

I'm coming up to my 5th year here an I will be able to go for residency here. The day it come through I'm going to go back to the UK for a while and get some "normal work" for a while.

If your thinking "why don't you just go home then if you don't like it". Well I come to far in, I sold up lock, stock and barrel when I moved here and invested everything when I first got here - time, money, energy, heart and soul to try and get things to work here. All my eggs in one basket.

Well I'm old enough to realise time flys, I spent all my money setting myself up here, I just don't have the energy to relocate it all again, heart was broken and I think I offered my soul as bribe to a cop who pulled me over and tried to bribe me for some reason or another.

If your coming here from abroad and it works out you'll probably have a great life. If it goes the other way you'll be where I am and worried about your future.
If I could do it all again, I wouldn't have come here. I doesn't feel like there will be any amount of good that will make it worth all the shit I had to go through to be where I am now which is very much worse of on the day I arrived.

[Dave A]

Certainly food for thought.