[Article] Child killed by washing machine

[123]

Another tragedy

a simple R300 Lear E/leakage could have prevented this, just so tragic...

[Dave A]

And old, unaltered installations without an earth leakage unit are still "reasonably safe"?

[123]

Old, Existing installations, to my knowledge, and according to EIR 2009, should comply to Clause 5 of Sans 10142, which clearly refers to Earthleakage Protection on Socket outlets only?

[123]

Correction, I have again read the EIR of 2009, and it does not refer to "old" or "unaltered". It only refers to "existing installations", which must comply to Clause 5 (General Safety Principles) only. The coc refers to "reasonably safe", but the law sees it as "reasonably safe" when the installation complies with the general safety principles, which of course is clause 5 only in the sans 10142.

Anyway, a freakin working and correctly wired cheap E/Leakage, if tested regularly via a little pushbutton, could have saved this tiny life, and the parents from a lifetime of sorrow.

[murdock]

simply doing a bit of maintenance by replacing the cable could have saved the childs life...

[murdock]

Correction, I have again read the EIR of 2009, and it does not refer to "old" or "unaltered". It only refers to "existing installations", which must comply to Clause 5 (General Safety Principles) only. The coc refers to "reasonably safe", but the law sees it as "reasonably safe" when the installation complies with the general safety principles, which of course is clause 5 only in the sans 10142.

Anyway, a freakin working and correctly wired cheap E/Leakage, if tested regularly via a little pushbutton, could have saved this tiny life, and the parents from a lifetime of sorrow.

the sans code is merely a set of guide lines...what you do with your electrical installation and who you use to wire and maintain the installation is your decision...if iyou recomend that people install an E/L unit if it there isnt one and they choose not to install it and something happens it has nothing to do with the regulations.

[Dave A]

Correction, I have again read the EIR of 2009, and it does not refer to "old" or "unaltered". It only refers to "existing installations", which must comply to Clause 5 (General Safety Principles) only. The coc refers to "reasonably safe", but the law sees it as "reasonably safe" when the installation complies with the general safety principles, which of course is clause 5 only in the sans 10142.

I've just checked with my sparkies and that's the way we're applying it too. If the client wants a COC on their electrical installation, there has to be earth leakage protection on the plug points*.

Thank goodness it changed. Now we just need to get to all the properties that haven't got earth leakage units installed yet for whatever reason.

*ignoring the issue of dedicated socket outlets for the sake of simplicity in this discussion.

simply doing a bit of maintenance by replacing the cable could have saved the childs life...

Absolutely

the sans code is merely a set of guide lines...what you do with your electrical installation and who you use to wire and maintain the installation is your decision...if iyou recomend that people install an E/L unit if it there isnt one and they choose not to install it and something happens it has nothing to do with the regulations.

That point goes a bit deeper than it might seem at first glance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when an accredited person issues a COC, that installation (or portion of the installation), must comply with SANS codes.

However, where no COC is issued such as in maintenance work...

Should COCs be required for maintenance work?

[murdock]

for the record...when i wire up a kitchen...laundry...i dont connect appliances like the washing machine...tumble dryer...dishwasher to the e/l unit...i install a seperate circuit from the db to an isolator and then connect the unit directly to the isolator...off the e/l unit..just like the stove...and make sure the units are all correctly earthed.

and some people even request the deep freeze not connected to the e/l unit.

earth leakage units where designed for portable appliaces like irons and stuff...most portable appliances are double insulated so they dont even require an earth.

i dont have time to read the sans regs but i am sure there is or was a section about lights being higher than a specified height ...do not need to be earthed.

[James Carter]

No COC required for maintenance work. You are not adding or altering the existing installation.

[James Carter]

Correct. Arms reach is what you are refering to. 2.5m vertically. 1.25m downwards from the outer esdge of surface. 1.25m horiz0ntally outwards from the outer edges of of the surface. 0.75m horizontally inwards from the outer edges of the surface and underneath the surface. Earthing not required. See 3.5 of Sans 10142

[Dave A]

No COC required for maintenance work. You are not adding or altering the existing installation.

As things stand, agreed. But what assurance is there that the work was carried out correctly?

Can you hold the issuer of the original COC responsible if that replacement component was installed by someone not under his/her control and it causes an event?
And if not, who is now the responsible person for the condition of that electrical installation?

[murdock]

As things stand, agreed. But what assurance is there that the work was carried out correctly?

Can you hold the issuer of the original COC responsible if that replacement component was installed by someone not under his/her control and it causes an event?
And if not, who is now the responsible person for the condition of that electrical installation?

a good example of this...a while back i went to a house to sort out an electrical problem and found the plugs had all been replaced with new plugs...the person who replaced the plugs fitted 4x4 pvc extention boxes over the 4x2 flush box and replaced the 4x2 sso with 4x4 dso...the problem...the old plugs didnt have an earth wire just 2 wires coming out the pipe...so the person who replaced all the plugs...a total of 12 didnt earth the new plugs...if this house had a coc issued before the house was sold and the new owner got an electrician (it was a registered electrical contractor in durban) once they moved in to replace all the sockets...the only way to prove this was done after the new owner moved in...would be if the inspector filled out the coc with an attachement with a list of all the sockets and type...and photos...and as we all know it is an absolute waste of time reporting this type of thing...

rather check that the electrical contractor is an eca registered contractor and target the eca fro the R15000 workmanship guanrantee...you have a better chance of getting the problem sorted out at no addittional cost to you...because the eca will not want to part with their money...and if you go the DOL route unless someone is killed on site chances are you wont even get them on site...and if you do...you become liable for the cost of the investigation and the cost of the repair...then only can you claim your money back from whoever was responsible.

[Dave A]

rather check that the electrical contractor is an eca registered contractor and target the eca fro the R15000 workmanship guanrantee...you have a better chance of getting the problem sorted out at no addittional cost to you...because the eca will not want to part with their money...

So are you joining the eca, Murdock?

[Sparks]

All agreed but, as far as I recall, memory on the downhill, since 1991 no coc shall be issued or socket outlet installed without there being an ELCB. I believe it was phased in over a few years(3) and '91 was the end of phasing in period. I just cannot help but wonder how anyone would be happy to live in a house with or without little children without the absolute certainty that it is safe for them. Everyone knows about ELCBs' by now. Unfortunately it boils down to irresponsible parents, look how many kids drown, are knocked over and abused. It is easier to blame the fly-by-night cheapie electrician because they want to save a buck.

[murdock]

So are you joining the eca, Murdock?

actually i have decided i no longer want to waste my money being a member...considering i have to pay extra as a memebr to the bargaining council...i will pass thanks until i can see some real benefit to me as a small contractor.