sabs 10142-1 fundamental requirements

[murdock]

thought i would start something here...the DB then move onto other things

5.1.1 it shall not be possible to touch any live part within arms reach with the standard test finger unless a cover is removed with the the use of a tool or key.

my question how are all the DBs supplied passing sabs standards if it is possible to remove the cover by merely turning a knob at the top of the panel?

then we go onto the favourite inspection report issue...THE LOCATION....mounted inside a cupboard...it states that a DB can be mounted in a cupboard provided it is not mounted higher than 2.2 m and you fit a label on the cupboard door...covered under section 6.6

someone asked the question about the clear space in front of a DB in another thread...i believe there should be clear access...in other words if the DB is mounted in the cupboard there should be no shelves restricting access...the structure of the cupboard should not restrict access to the DB in other words you should need to remove the cupboard to be able to take off the cover...what i have noticed is inspectors are turning a blind eye to this problem so when it comes to maintence or additions the poor sucker who has to work in the DB has to remove the entire cupboard or battle working around it

if you look at section 5.2.8 of the code you will notice this problem is covered and some DBs mounted in cupboards should be failed during the inspection report...if the DB is mounted in a cupboard and you can gain easy access then just a label is required...but if the DB is mounted in a cupboard and you cannot gain access to it without having to remove the cupboard or you have to work around the cupboard to gain access to components in the DB it should not be passed.

it once again goes back to the customer...who at the time of the cupboard installation should have contacted his/her local electrician to discuss how to fit the cupboard around the DB...ie 2 doors which can be unclipped and space around the DB for "easy" access

[murdock]

the next question during your inspection report would be is the DB SABS approved....mmm now this could be an intersting subject...did the DB have some form of approval at the time of purchase...well it wouldnt be such a train smash if you where just signing off an exsisting installation...but if a new installation...and you are signing off an installation where you work for a big company and not invoved in the purchasing of goods...this could become an issue...some companies which import equipment dont have an sabs stamp of approval but they do however have some form of approval which expires....these certificates need to be checked....an example of this were the mes plugs which i posted the issue with the plug top restricitng the switch...it turns out that the company certificates had expired 2 months before i posted the thread.

[Dave A]

You've raised this a couple of times before and it has had me scratching my head.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO WORKS ON AN ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION HAS A TAG/NAME PLATE WITH HIS/HER QUALIFICATIONS WHICH IS ISSUED ON COMPLETION AND PASSING OF THE RELEVANT COURSE THAY HAVE ATTENDED...IF THE PERSON WHO IS WORKING ON YOUR ELECTRICAL INSTALLTIONS CANNOT PRODUCE THIS TAG WITH HIS QUALIFICATIONS...THE COMPANY HE IS WORKING FOR SHOULD BE REPORTED TO THE DOL AND TO THE ELECTRICAL BARGAINING COUNCIL

On what legal basis?

[murdock]

dave contact the bargaining council and they will give you the run down and punishment for leaving people who are not skilled to carry out the work they are doing...this is the reason the elconop system started....

[Dave A]

Ok - that means it comes from the central bargaining agreement (and the extension thereof to non-parties) by virtue of the powers vested in the bargaining council by the LRA.

I've been spun so much verbal bs by that crowd already, I don't believe a word they say until they commit it to writing.

I'll re-read the central agreement in the morning before I say anything more.

[Sparks]

On this I side with Murdoch 100%. All work should be done by either qualified or the supervision of a qualified electrician. Granted he cannot be everywhere at the same time but, he should at least be on the premises and available to provide the knowledge he has to the appy. As for the assistant, he should only assist, not do what the electrician is too lazy to do. The public should be made aware that they are entitled to insist on seeing his accreditation certificate before allowing the electrician to touch their installation.

[Dave A]

On this I side with Murdoch 100%. All work should be done by either qualified or the supervision of a qualified electrician.

If you meant accredited person (ie wireman as opposed to trade tested electrician), this I have no argument with. In fact, that is the law - finish and klaar.

It's the claimed legal status of the tags from the bargaining council aspect that I query.
(Still haven't managed to look at it yet. One of my financial databases came up corrupted on Friday morning and I've been on that problem ever since - with half an eye on the cricket, of course).

[Sparks]

If only it were "finnish & klaar" we can only dream.

[Sparks]

Can anyone inform me whether there is a bylaw in Cape Town that states it is acceptable to have a DB directly above the stove at 2m afl enclosed by a cupboard.
This is a legitimate question, please help. The agents are not happy that I am quoting to move the DB, in most cases a flush Heineman, meaning replacing with a new accessible DB.
I have even come across a readyboard mounted 1m above the stove, you can imagine what that looks like.

[Dave A]

Can anyone inform me whether there is a bylaw in Cape Town that states it is acceptable to have a DB directly above the stove at 2m afl enclosed by a cupboard.

Even if such a by-law existed, it would still be contrary to the national standard requiring a water resistant enclosure.

[AndyD]

There's numerous issues with this one. If it was @ 2000mm affl and above a stove then it wouldn't be classed as safely accessible when the stove is being used (it might not even be safely accessible if the stove is not being used). Also as Dave points out it would need to be IP66 rated in a steam/condensation environment. Also there's a better than good chance that the internal temps in the DB would exceed the max ambient temps that the components are rated to. Most MCB's and RCD's are max 50/60C ambient. I would also fail this location. It might be easier and cheaper to relocate the stove than the DB however.

[Sparks]

Thanks, I have failed about 10 (DBs' because of this)this past month & the agents are complaining. Due to cupboards being built in it is not necessarily cheaper to move the cooker point. I do however give the option in my quote so that the client can get a cabinetmaker if they wish.
I just cannot fathom why a stove would be fitted there in the first place.

[murdock]

pg 156...6.6.1.7 b) and pg 155 6.6.1.4 and 6 should asnswer your question