carte blanche pirate electricians

[murdock]

i didnt watch the program...only seen whats flying around the net.

what i have heard and seen...absolutley shocking...the manner in which they handled this...it looks more like free advertiseing for the eca...bernie car and errol mann...and it looks like they targeted the other contractors...what i would like to see is some yotube foootage from a totally indepedant person...monitoring eca mambers carrying out cocs (dave makes sure your fellas are on the ball you just never know whats gona happen and when)

i am surprised that carte blanche didnt do some research before they went live with this.

the persons qualifications who attended to the problem...did anyone bother to check if the person employed by man electrical had the correct qualification or is it just asumed that because he found the problem he is suitably qualified?

[IanF]

Murdock
I watched CB and they said they randomly selected the contractors from the yellow pages. That is how a "normal' customer would choose an electrician.
What alternatives are there to ECA for customers. I use Dave Cook electrical as they are close to me. The last job was to run a plug point from the DB to our Laser engraver for clean power.. The guy they sent was a Zimbabwean and the job looks fine.

The real question is how do you use this to your advantage?

[murdock]

my point is that the problems in the industry is far bigger than a couple of pirate contractors running around trying to make a living (and of course some ripping people off)...its great that they made us aware that there are pirate contractors...we all knew that...it is also great that they are making the public aware...i just hope it doesnt end here.

what now...

so we have a problem what is the solution?

are these pirate contractors going to be dealt with?

did they get hold of the person in charge of policing the industry (the eca is not responsible for policing the industry)...so he could tell us what steps he is taking to overcome these issues and to prevent it from happening again?..

What punishment is being enforced?

[IanF]

Murdock don't fret over what you can't change.
Rather get letters of recommendation from your customers and ask them to recommend you.

[mikilianis]

Wasn't there something similar on 3rd Degree some time back about a bogus Electrical contractor supposedly replacing D.B.s,then there was another one on C.B.about the public paying up to R1000 to get their electrical supply bypassed so they don't have to pay for electricity. And I feel bad about charging a young woman R50 bucks to switch her stove isolator on, she had just moved into a new abode and called me out (I was recommended )as her stove was not working I switched it on and charged her some petrol money.I suppose in any industry there will be scams,What the industry needs is a awareness campaign to let the public know of the dangers of getting bogus and flyby night contractors in the public should demand to see a contractors credentials but then again there will always be gullible customers

[AndyD]

What the industry needs is a awareness campaign to let the public know of the dangers of getting bogus and flyby night contractors in the public should demand to see a contractors credentials but then again there will always be gullible customers

You're making the customers sound innocent but the 'cheapest quote' mentality is a big part of what's driving this. The legislation is in place to stop these less than savory contractors it just needs more enthusiastic enforcement with harsher penalties for transgressors.

[murdock]

i agree with andy...i was suppose to move a factory a couple of months ago...but found out a group of people who are now living in this country...charging R120 for a team of 5...got the job no vehicle...no ladders....only a hand full of hand tools...the only mistake they made was that i know of other than the absolutely shouldy workmanship is they almost blew a hole in the DB when all 3 phases shorted out against the DB...but hey nobody died so no problem...

the customer is happy the factory runs and he saved money...he still cant understand why all of us registered ecb and some eca contractors are so expensive...yet he is a bussinessman who by the way is by no means the cheapest in his game...and does a really good quality job....which is what really surprises me...but anyway his factory is running and he saved lots of money and nobody was hurt...he asked me to come and do some work in his factory but i declined the offer...because once i work in the factory...will ultimatley take on the responsibility of the entire installation...sorry mate...not interested.

charging R50 to switch on the stove...

i have a problem with this...why because for starters the next time you go do work there and charge your normal rate she is going to complain wanting to know why so expensive when you only charged R50 the first visit...i think its great that you do this kind of thing...i also make this mistake and feel sorry for old people and young people starting out etc etc...but boy does it back fire on me at times.

the second thing is does sars....the bargaining council....uif...workmans comp....cipro...etc etc...give you a discount at the end of the month for being such a sweetie...i know i sound like a real a**hole but think about it what are you doing to the industry...the next person is gona say but you only charged person A R50 if you could do it for R50 why are you charging R250 an hour or a call out fee of R300...thats why now it is either "free" or you pay the call out fee and hourly rate...and i have now made up a set rate which i have sent to all my customers which is updated...increased on a yearly basis...no more confusion

[murdock]

someone mentioned the contractors where randomly selected from the yellow pages...

well after visiting the wholesaler yesterday i heard some interesting rumours...

one was how is chris greager...bernie carr and errol mann conntected.

who does errol mann wife work for?

was there a weak link which could have tipped the star contractor...before he was mad a fool of like the rest?

the whole program was all about a registered elctrician or supervised by one being the only ones allowed to work on a live DB...the fact that the person has worked for the company for 12years doesnt mean he has the qualification to do so...did anyone bother to check his qualification?

make no mistake i think it is great that there is attention being drawn to the industry but come on people this is pathetic...lets start looking at the real issues

lets start with the extremely unenviroment friendly 6 page COC.

product being sold which ar enot sabs approved...or their license has expired and nobody bothers to follow up

my point is this is just the tip of the iceberg.

no matter what we say or do on any website...tv program...forum etc...the bottom line is until the industry is properly policed nothing is going to change...so it has to come from the top.

so lets get out there rip the arse out of this industy while we can...make some good money and dont worry about silly things like good ehtics... morals and standards and all that cr*p until some one takes the time to sort out the industry.

lets make some money out of these suckers (the public) while we can...i wish i could think like that.

[Sparks]

We know it is not sound business practise Murdock but what I do is to call it a pensioner's discount. That way they know that the rate is not available to their whole family. What I also do as a rule is to find out as much as I can when they phone, sometimes it is something simple like an extension lead with a joint that is tripping the ELCB. It saves me riding and feeling bad about telling them there is nothing wrong with the ELCB, it is doing it's job. The extension needs replacing. I have even had an elderly lady get me out to show her where the 2nd 2way switch is, she had forgotten about it.

[AndyD]

.....And I feel bad about charging a young woman R50 bucks to switch her stove isolator on, she had just moved into a new abode and called me out (I was recommended )as her stove was not working I switched it on and charged her some petrol money.

We do very little domestic work but we have a minimum when we walk on a site. Even if it was switching on an isolator we would at least do a quick earth test and a visual check of the DB or SubDB that supplied the appliance. This would be 15 mins on site, sometimes a little longer so we just charge the flat call-out.

It's a fine line and you can't really win, once in a while we get a complaint that we deliberately stretched out the time on site but on the other hand if the customer gets a shock from an appliance and you as a qualified person switched on the isolator without checking it's safe then ........lets just say no good deed goes unpunished.

[murdock]

We know it is not sound business practise Murdock but what I do is to call it a pensioner's discount. That way they know that the rate is not available to their whole family. What I also do as a rule is to find out as much as I can when they phone, sometimes it is something simple like an extension lead with a joint that is tripping the ELCB. It saves me riding and feeling bad about telling them there is nothing wrong with the ELCB, it is doing it's job. The extension needs replacing. I have even had an elderly lady get me out to show her where the 2nd 2way switch is, she had forgotten about it.

good for you...i think your intention are good....i have just been doing this for too long.

[murdock]

reading these threads... i now realise why the industry has fallen apart...i believe one of the reasons...is people like myself (and maybe so people on this forum) who use to be proud to be an electrician and even though i have much higher qualification and my job title is higher than just a plain electrician.. my bussiness card and application forms have always just been electrician (which i will be changing from today to managing director)...when i look out in the field and see what is going on and how people have degraded this trade by the absolute crap workmanship and bad manner i which they behave when it comes to work ethics etc...i sit here typing this morning embarressed to be an electrician...

i know i blame the DOL...ECA and everyone else...but it is actually the people in the industry from labour to electrical engineer who have allowed this to happen...by accepting the poor quality of work and reducing the hourly rate to a point wher you cannot affrod to have qualified people on site.

company owners who drop off unskilled staff are actually one of the biggest culprits for this degrading industry maybe thats where the problem lies...especially with the big companies working contruction site....because thats where it all starts

and from my latest project i speak from what i saw happening on a daily basis...one of the biggest problems identified on the site was the fact that most "electricians" couldnt even identify simple problems like mixed plug and light circuits and when i identified the issues...some of them couldnt even rectify it in a day...when i showed some of them simple ways to identify the circuit in less than 10 minutes they where rather amazed...i just shook my head and moved on...so now you know why i say....safety isnt just about a hard hat and safety boots...and putting the inspectors under so much pressure on the last day and threatenig non payment if the cocs are not issued dosent do anything for safety either.

[Dave A]

I think it's worth sticking to standards - there's always a market for quality. It may contract and expand from time to time, and current market conditions aren't helping much. But the cream always floats to the top eventually.

[murdock]

I think it's worth sticking to standards - there's always a market for quality. It may contract and expand from time to time, and current market conditions aren't helping much. But the cream always floats to the top eventually.

funny you should mention that...i had a small project to do on a site where i have done the bulk of my work since the beginning of the year...bitched and whined like a stuffed pig about the bad standard of workmanship on the site...in fact lowered my price and standard to ge tthe work...but it seemed at the time that all the work i did went unnoticed...well to my surprise when i arrived on site to do the little project...i was told that the site has a set of standards which had to be adhered to from now on...praise the lord.

i was also awarded another project which i wasnt expecting to get...started yeserday.

i am getting calls from old customers i havent heard from in years.

[Sparks]

Yip, that is why I look after my old customers. They keep coming back. One's reputation goes ahead of you good or bad. In Afrikaans we do not say "goedkoop koop is duur koop" for nothing.
Because of my being "full of crap" and taking the trouble to put a report together with photos I took of the mess I saw, I almost have too much work at a retirement village.
They do not even ask for a quote anymore, but that does not stop me from shopping around for the best prices for them.
Anyone interested in panel heaters can PM me for contact details at the factory. Delivered anywhere in SA cheaper than the large retailers.