Disconnecting a gate motor

[bergie]

Lockable in this case means once the plug top is removed from the socket disabling power to the circuit on the plug, some device is installed on the plug socket which does not sallow the plug top to be plugged in again. Part of safety for when an electrician is working on the circuit.

lockable in the off position. i wouldnt accept funny lockout devices for a socket outlet .the lockout disappears and then you have to please explain the next time another sparky comes along and fails it.

[AndyD]

please post a pic or a link...this is something i dont have or have i ever seen...you learn something new everyday.

There's several different makes of these things around. link link link They're nothing sexy, as long as it's lockable and these a sign on it then it fulfills the criteria. Mine all came from the UK but you can even make your own.

I'd question whether standard plugpoints are designed as "lockable" though.

Do you mean plugs or sockets? If you're working on an appliance like a gate motor you wouldn't need to lock out the socket if you lock out the plug.

[AndyD]

Lockable in this case means once the plug top is removed from the socket disabling power to the circuit on the plug, some device is installed on the plug socket which does not sallow the plug top to be plugged in again. Part of safety for when an electrician is working on the circuit.

lockable in the off position. i wouldnt accept funny lockout devices for a socket outlet .the lockout disappears and then you have to please explain the next time another sparky comes along and fails it.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly here, you only need to lockout the actual supply if the appliance you're working on is hard wired in an isolator. If it's unpluggable then you can only effictively lock out by encapsulating the plug once you've pulled it. If you lockout the socket then there's nothing to stop somebody plugging it into an alternative supply like another socket or an extension lead. This wouldn't qualify as a safe lockout.

[murdock]

thanks andy...pretty simple...a box around the the plug top...i suppose i have never had an application where i needed to lock out the plug top...most gate installations i have seen which are plugged into the garage are 12 volt.

[bergie]

ok now i see .i thought you meant the socket outlet. if that box could be permanently fixed to the cable i would more peace of mind.
most gate motors have the 12 volt supply and battery in its own box,so the supply cable is in any case 230 volt.

[SparkyScott]

I have a kit with several different MCB and MCCB lockout devices aswell as colour coded padlocks and signage, there's one on each of our vehicles as well. They don't cost a fortune and they're an HSE requirement on many sites nowadays.

There are lockout covers you can fit on plugs and padlock to prevent them being plugged in again so a plug can be considered a lockable disconnect if the right device is used.

Hey Andy where did u buy the locking device for the MCB?

[murdock]

heineman/cbi have both the heineman unit and the new clip system...or you can get the one for the din rail mount type breakers from AC/DC...dont forge tto print and laminate a dange rdo not switch on label with your contact details

[CharlM]

Hi guys

It is compulsory to have an isolator installed within arm's reach of the gate motor, so that the electrical power can be cut should an emergency situation arise. It is recommended that a 5A thermal breaker with all-pole circuit break is used. Page 14 of this installation manual shows the position of the isolator.

I hope this helps :-)

[Dave A]

It is compulsory to have an isolator installed within arm's reach of the gate motor, so that the electrical power can be cut should an emergency situation arise.

Hi Charl and welcome to the discussion. Could you back that statement up by pointing to the relevant section of code, please.

[CharlM]

Hi Charl and welcome to the discussion. Could you back that statement up by pointing to the relevant section of code, please.

Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3

6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position

[Dave A]

Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3

6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position

I see we have come full circle. This was the starting point of post 1, but with a totally different interpretation.
Please note the highlighted bits above which are pretty important to the correct interpretation...

Just in the section you've quoted we've already got a couple of options other than the isolator within arms reach:

• The appliance is supplied from a socket-outlet - you don't need an isolator within arms reach of the terminals of the appliance (unless specified elsewhere)
• There is a lockable switch disconnector device in the distribution board - you don't need an isolator within arms reach (unless specified elsewhere)

The "if not specified elsewhere" bit is touched on in post 9. Section 6.16.5.1 is all about motor protection and control - and 6.16.5.1.5 provides four options, only one of which is a disconnector "mounted on or next to the motor".

[Just Gone]

Sure, it is in the SANS10142-1 manual, section 6.9.3 - Disconnecting devices for equipment Amdt 3

6.9.3.1 An appliance or equipment that is not supplied from a socket-outlet, including equipment automatically or remote controlled, shall be capable of being disconnected from the supply by an easily accessible switch-disconnector. The disconnector shall be mounted (if not specified elsewhere in this part of SANS 10142, but excluding luminaire circuits) (see also 6.16.1.4) Amdt 1
a) within arm's reach from the terminals of the appliance, or
b) in a distribution board, if the device is capable of being locked in the open position

This is the way we installers have all been instructed to install gate motors. This is also the way that electricians doing coc's are also calling it - never really had a debate with them so have just gone the route of putting a plugpoint within 1m of the motor.

[Dave A]

never really had a debate with them so have just gone the route of putting a plugpoint within 1m of the motor.

Kevin, there's no harm in that. It's a great way to do it

It's when people start stating it's "compulsory" - i.e. the only way to do it that the problems start. People start believing it, then sparkies who issue COC's on an installation that is up to code, but deals with this issue a different way, start copping flack because folk have been misinformed.

It's unnecessary aggravation and I'd prefer to nip it in the bud before the disease spreads.

The big question that still remains, given Andy's lockable plug-top device option, is whether any plug-top can therefor be considered a lockable disconnector device?

For the time being I've advised my sparkies not to rely on the idea when examining installations... for no better reason than it would make the line of site to plug point option redundant (and that would still have to be complied with when it comes to motors on plug-tops anyway).

It's for things like these that a practice note from the regulatory authority would be really useful.

[AndyD]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. From a real world point of view a 16A 3-pin plug (or any other plug) is a device that would easily fulfil the definition of being a safe lock-out device. Sure you need a 'tool' to do it but that's no different than an MCB or MCCB where many brands require their own proprietary toggle clip. I'm guessing that the legislation was written by persons who weren't aware of suitable devices being on the market and I have to say they wouldn't be alone, I'm yet to see anyone else making use of these devices.

I agree there's no 'harm' in making the plug point within a meter but it's certainly an unnecessary inconvenience in many cases and possibly extra expense. If I was involved in domestic electrical or access systems work it would annoy the hell out of me but as I'm not I refuse to get stressed about it. The ball's in you're court Dave I wish you luck and Godspeed. Let us know how you get on with the appropriate authorities.

[Just Gone]

I get called out quite a lot because someone might be selling a house and they cannot get a coc, because the motor was installed a couple of years ago and does not have a plugpoint within one metre of the gate therefore they cannot get a coc. So this comes from a lot of different sparkies who insist on this to issue the coc.