Light fixtures in a new bathroom

[Goobie]

Hi,

I would appreciate some help with the type of light fixtures permitted in a bathroom.

I'm building a small bathroom (2mx3m) consisting of a basin, toilet and a shower which will run the width of the bathroom (ie 0.9mx2m). See attachment.

1. I would like to have a plug against wall as indicated, this falls in zone 3 correct?
2. I would like to hang two pendants from the ceiling against the wall, which when measure from the shower head is 1.7m away with a glass partition in between. I believe that falls in zone 3. I asked at a local lighting shop but I believed they are not very clued up; according to them I cannot have any metal fixtures unless they are on a transformer. Am I correct that I can put any kind of fixture in zone 3 (which is >1.2m from the shower head) as long as it is IP21 rated?
3. I would also like to put an extractor fan in the ceiling to remove odours and moisture. Where would be the best place to do that so that it comply with regulations?

thank you
G

[AndyD]

Are there any windows in the bathroom?
What is above the bathroom ceiling?
What type of socket do you want to install and at what height?...Is this a shaver type socket?
Is the bathroom a wet-room type setup?
Is there no light going in the shower or above the wash basin?

[kleva]

Hi Goobie

AndyD's questions are valid and may affect the information provided below, but here is my response.

* According to SANS 10142, the area you are trying to install the pendants and sockets is Code 3 and must have minimum of IP21.
* For the Socket it (and this is according to my interpretation of the code which may be a little harsher than code intended SANS 10142-1 Section 7.1.4.3.3) - Must be a shaving socket with isolating transformer, SELV supplied (unlikely) or DEDICATED Earth Leakage protection device. Why I say may interpretation of the code is harsher, is that the code does not use the word dedicated, but even in Zone 3 I would not normally want to have a standard 16A socket.

Now for the nitty gritty about the pendant lights and where the grey area starts, and interpretations might vary vastly:
* Metal Casing - MUST be bonded. They will be within "arms reach"
* If hanging, can they ever reach Zone 2, even under exceptional circumstances? If so, then NOT allowed (Zone 2 would be anywhere within 600mm of the edge of the wall you drew)
* According to some area of the code (which for some reason I can't find right now), they shouldn't be even in arms reach if not SELV.

My suggestion is to look at using a safety supply if you really want this for aesthetic reasons, as the pendants would be the biggest grey area. Ultimately everything has to be as safe as possible, not just as safe as code allows, so I would balk at anything that hangs with electrical current going through it (slip, fall, grab pendant....).

K

[Goobie]

Are there any windows in the bathroom?
What is above the bathroom ceiling?
What type of socket do you want to install and at what height?...Is this a shaver type socket?
Is the bathroom a wet-room type setup?
Is there no light going in the shower or above the wash basin?

1. 1m wide window above the toilet
2. Above the ceiling is the roof.
3. Regular 16A socket about 300mm off the floor
4. No it is not a wet room
5. No light inside the shower. Wall mounted light above the mirror over the basin. Will also be putting up ceiling mounted spotlights over the toilet for directional light into the shower.

[Goobie]

Now for the nitty gritty about the pendant lights and where the grey area starts, and interpretations might vary vastly:
* Metal Casing - MUST be bonded. They will be within "arms reach"
* If hanging, can they ever reach Zone 2, even under exceptional circumstances? If so, then NOT allowed (Zone 2 would be anywhere within 600mm of the edge of the wall you drew)
* According to some area of the code (which for some reason I can't find right now), they shouldn't be even in arms reach if not SELV.

K

Would a plastic/glass/non-conducting type material be better? I was leaning towards something with a frosted glass cover?

When measuring the zones in a shower, do you measure from the shower head or where the shower enclosure ends?

thanks for the advice

[Goobie]

I bought an extractor fan (Eurolux) from Builder's warehouse, it was on special for R230. It is rated as IP20, should it not be IP21?

[kleva]

Answering last question 1st - Extractor on Window/Wall as long as socket/connection is outside or in the furtherest reaches of Zone 3, even if IP20, I would still say OK, but the basic ruling is over 3600mm (600+600+2400) from shower head. In one of my lectures (me as student not lecturer) it came up that the physical wall on the edges of Zone 3 would still be safe enough if there was no danger of accident (ie: above toilet, someone would have to stand on toilet to touch/fiddle), then treat as a normal without Zone 3 restrictions. Also, someone is being pretty harsh if they give something an IP20 rating, they are saying that although it can't accept a finger, it can't take a drop of water from directly above?

Your picture though still places that socket and pendant in danger areas. I am uncomfortable with the socket that low (300mm), again I am sure there is something specific in the code that says NO. I would need to go look it up after the weekend to tell you exactly what section, but save yourself the hassle and put it at about 1.5m to 2.2m high to start with. There is absolutely no reason to have the socket that close to the floor.

Measurement - In the diagram you drew: 600mm from shower head is Zone 1. 600mm beyond that is Zone 2. However with the fixed 3rd wall in place, you need to measure from the edge of the wall 600mm for the rest of Zone 2 on the opposite side of the wall. I would stay with the basic calculation though to be sure -> 600mm from shower head is Zone 1, next 600mm is Zone 2, next 2400mm is Zone 3, outside Zone 3 you are pretty much back to normal regs for the rest of the installation.

Plastic/Non Conductive case - Hell yes, anything nonconductive in a bathroom setting is better. Plastic/Glass/Nonconductive for the pendant chain/hanger as well. Still watch the reach into Zone 2 for complience. Is there no option to permanently mount the lights on/near the sink instead of the pendant/hanging option, cos that part still makes me nervous about the exact rules to apply?

Hope I have answered enough, very worried about that socket and the fact that something is hanging, but this is as much legislative and recommendations I can give without fighting my way back through the code and getting a good look at the installation/materials.

K

[Goobie]

Answering last question 1st - Extractor on Window/Wall as long as socket/connection is outside or in the furtherest reaches of Zone 3, even if IP20, I would still say OK, but the basic ruling is over 3600mm (600+600+2400) from shower head. ...
K

Kleva,

I'm confused, are you sure about that 3.6m for zone 3 (please correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm no expert)? I dug around and came up with zone 3 starting at 1.2m from the shower head (see attachment)

Thanks

.

[AndyD]

Kleva was suggesting outside Zone 3 which would be 3.6m from shower. I would install a diffuser and some flexible duct in the shower itself and fit an inline fan in the roof space somewhere outside Zone 1 &2 with a 2 or 3-pole isolater depending on the type of fan and also RCD protection and a discharge louvre through the outside wall. This would depend what is above your bathroom ceiling hence my earlier question.

6.14.2.3 In a room that contains a fixed bath or shower cubicle,
luminaires shall be totally enclosed or the parts of the lamp holder within
a distance of 2,5 m from the bath or the shower cubicle shall be
constructed of or shrouded in insulating material.
6.14.3 Suspended luminaires
6.14.3.1 The luminaire and pendant shall not rotate more than one
complete revolution to prevent damage to the conductors.
6.14.3.2 A luminaire pendant which is longer than 600 mm and not
suitably stayed, shall have a flexible joint.
NOTE A rigid pendant is deemed to be suitably stayed if the lower end of the
pendant cannot move horizontally by more than 25 mm per 500 mm (or part of
500 mm) length of the pendant.
6.14.3.3 A suspended luminaire shall be out of arm's reach from the floor
if the luminaire is installed in a
a) washroom,
b) change room,
c) laundry,
d) cupboard or other enclosure, or
e) position exposed to wind and the weather.

7.1.2.1 Zone 0
Zone 0 is the interior of the bathtub or shower basin (the container).
7.1.2.2 Zone 1
Zone 1 is limited by
a) the vertical plane circumscribing the outer edge or 0,20 m from the
inner edge (where the ledge is too wide) of the bathtub, shower basin,
or for a shower without a basin, by the vertical plane 0,60 m from the
shower rose, and
b) the horizontal plane 2,5 m above the bathtub or shower floor.
7.1.2.3 Zone 2
Zone 2 is limited by
a) the volume external to zone 1 and the parallel vertical plane 0,60 m
external to zone 1, and
b) the floor and the horizontal plane 2,25 m above the floor.
7.1.2.4 Zone 3
Zone 3 is limited by
a) the vertical plane external to zone 2 and the parallel vertical plane
2,40 m external to zone 2, and
b) the floor and the horizontal plane 2,25 m above the floor.

7.1.4.1 Degrees of protection
Electrical equipment shall have at least the following degrees of
protection against ingress of water:
in zone 0 : IPX7;
in zone 1 : IPX5;
in zone 2 : IPX4;
in zone 3 : IP21; and
outside zone 3 in the same room : IP21, except for a distribution board :
IPX5

7.1.4.2 Wiring systems
7.1.4.2.1 In zones 0, 1 and 2, wiring systems shall be limited to those
necessary for the supply of appliances situated in these zones.
7.1.4.2.2 Junction boxes are not permitted in zones 0, 1 and 2.
7.1.4.3 Switchgear and controlgear
7.1.4.3.1 In zones 0, 1 and 2, no switchgear and accessories shall be
installed except that emergency push buttons, which operate at a safety
This eStandard is exclusively for use on one standalone PC. To access it from a file server/Intranet constitutes a violation
of SABS copyright rules. Note that only one printout of the standard may be made.
SANS 10142-1:2003
Edition 1.1
(As amended 2003 and 2005)
extra low voltage at nominal voltage not exceeding 12 V, are permitted in
zones 1 and 2.
7.1.4.3.2 Insulating cords of cord-operated switches are permitted in
zones 1 and 2, provided that the cord-operated switch complies with the
requirements for switches (see table 4.2).
7.1.4.3.3 In zone 3, socket-outlets are permitted only if they are
a) supplied individually by an isolating transformer that complies with
SANS 61558-2-6/IEC 61558-2-6 (SABS IEC 61558-2-6), or
b) supplied by safety extra low voltage (SELV) (see 5.7), or
c) protected by an earth leakage protection device with a rated earth
leakage tripping current (rated residual current) IΔn not exceeding
30 mA. Amdt 3
7.1.4.3.4 Any switches and socket-outlets shall be at a distance of at
least 0,60 m from the door opening of the prefabricated shower cabinet

[kleva]

As AndyD mentioned, that is what I was suggesting. As your pic shows, Zone 2 from 600mm to 1200mm, Zone 3 from 1200mm to 3600mm. So if outside Zone 3 then you are back to most of the standard regs.

AndyD also points out the area of the code I was going to look for regarding the "out of arms reach" requirement for bathrooms.

Cheers, going back to my holiday now, will pick this up after weekend.

[Goobie]

Andy,

thanks for this info, it helps a lot. Looks like I will not be putting in that pendants after all. Very difficult to find fixtures that conforms to all that regulations and still look good.

This part worried me a bit though, (perhaps you can clear this up for me if you don't mind):

6.14.2.3 In a room that contains a fixed bath or shower cubicle,
luminaires shall be totally enclosed or the parts of the lamp holder within
a distance of 2,5 m from the bath or the shower cubicle shall be
constructed of or shrouded in insulating material.

in a version of the SANS 10142 that I downloaded from the web it says:

6.14.2.3 Deleted by amendment No. 6.

does that mean it is not relevant anymore, or has it moved somewhere else?

thanks
G

[AndyD]

Sorry I meant to say that this was from the original 0142-1 regs. I don't have the ammendments on my home pc so there may be updates. If I remember and if I have time I'll check tomorrow.

[kleva]

6.14.2.3 Deleted by amendment No. 6.

does that mean it is not relevant anymore, or has it moved somewhere else?

Hi Goobie

Sorry, been busy with another project and haven't had time to get back to this.
That means it is not relevant any more, the other sections obviously still apply.

Glad to hear that you cancelling the quest for pendant