Construction: Soil pretreatment standards.

[Chris B]

Hi to all Forum browsers .

When it comes to the history of soil pretreatments in the pest control/building industries the quality of workmanship and integrity has taken a severe dive in the goal for professionalism!

Subterranean termites are one of the most aggressive wood boring organisms in the WDO's field, yet they are treated with the least concern...

"In the good old days", a saying that applies to our current situation, we were spoiled with brilliant chemicals like chlordane witch made it possible for PCO's to dilute the product, to cut costs, and still get the desired protection. Which was unethical!!!
The concern here is that this bad practice set a president which put this part of the industry is in dire straits!

Chemicals like chlordane are not available anymore and we're forced to use inferior products, which work perfect if applied correctly, but to our horror is being applied weaker than its predecessor!
Why?, how can they be so stupid?, how do they get away with it?, etc. you may ask...
Well I leave these questions open for debate, hoping to see some interest. If so, those of us concerned can change this course!

It might be your house's quote that came in a few R's cheaper to suite your needs, but repairs on a R10 000 sliding door and frame is not under that warranty.
Just a thought, how many door frames, window frames etc. in your house are exposed?

[Derry Prince]

Hi

I agree with you entirely!

However when you put your price in at the correct chemical mix as recommended by the manufacturer/supplier and it comes out to what?

R40-50 per m2?

and your competitors are pricing at anything from R0.75 per m2?
you end up looking like a ripoff artiste and no amount of explaining (with invoices showing cost price and mixing ratios) makes any difference because after all we are a grudge purchase and company "X" will do it at........

This on projects where the unit sells in excess of 2 mil !!!

Sooooo, do you stand on principle and never do soil poisoning again?
Or do you fight frantically to slowly increase the price?

This has been addressed by SAPCA but doesn't seem to make any difference.
Non-SAPCA members can do what they like.

The R0.75 brigade also give guarantees which often are not reduced to writing and are often not honoured.

Yes, most pre and post construction termite treatments fail when incorrectly mixed and applied.

What suggestions do we have to resolve this?
After all we have to police ourselves in this regard, the problem is someone will always be greedy enough to go against the flow and snap up the work at a cheap rate and look like a hero to the notoriously cheapskate building industry.

My suggestion was for SAPCA to approach the NHBRC with the facts and figures of ratios and costs for correct application so that they could enlighten their members and arrive at a uniform price we are all comfortable with.
A lower and upper price bracket could be determined that there is a little room for negotiation depending on circumstances and getting away from any price fixing concerns.
This could also transfer through to the architects/quantity surveyors etc who write the bills of quantity so everyone realises the true costs involved.

My suggestion was not well taken and shot down in flames with no alternative given!

What suggestions do you have?

Regards,
Derry

[Dave A]

At a meeting with banks a couple of years ago, they asked if we could do something about soil pre-treatments (we were talking about entomological clearances at the time). Apparently they are very concerned about what is going on.

Of course, since Chlordane's gone, it's only got worse. I've heard stories of folk using Lindane With a knapsack sprayer Applying the stuff as lightly as you do with a herbicide

Maybe the banks would be prepared to talk. They're the guys with the leverage over NHBRC anyway.

The only problem I see there is that they want a list of who not to use (as opposed to who to use).

My comment at the time was "Surely they'd prefer to be working with the shorter list!"

[Derry Prince]

Hi Dave

Thats a good idea regarding the banks leverage.

I still think instead of independents trying to talk to the banks, a body such as SAPCA or maybe PCSIB should approach them at a head office level to try and write some sort of protocol to be used when dealing with builders in respect of the recommended pricing for termite soil poisonings.

What say ye all?

Regards,
Derry

P.S. Will get a signature sorted soon!

[Chris B]

Trying my best...

Hi Derry,
I have been passionately trying to find a solution to this dilemma, I think my brainstorms might have something to do with the weird weather lately...

I'm glad too see that there is some interest in this area but must admit that I expected some more replies!?
I don't know weather its because people are just OK with the way things are going or that they feel this might be a loosing battle...

Well, I can assure you its not! I have come up with some great ideas and hope to put them in action soon. This means that I will have to bump heads with some big guns in the other associations and boards but nonetheless I'm looking forward to it.

I will of course try to keep the members updated on the progress and keep this forum as a source of advise.

Here I come

[Derry Prince]

Hi Chris

A year has passed without any updates.
Did you implement your ideas? What were the results?

An update would be apreciated.

Regards,

[Dave A]

Hi Derry.

Earlier this year I heard that the NHBRC was going to get involved with getting this sorted out. But I haven't heard anything since. Hopefully someone else from SAPCA HC can advise if there has been any further progress.

BTW - I believe you are the new Gauteng regional chairman. Congratulations!

[Dutch1962]

Pretreats here are used more for future leverage from the pest company to use on the consumer. It gives them a foot in the door I guess so they might figure the low cost is justified. Unfortunately low cost - cut product or service as well because they still want profits on the original treatment. In my opinion they are trying to have it both ways and it hurts all of us.

Especially come swarm season. People have lost faith after years of problems.

[Assassin]

Re:

R0.75/m2???? That is ridiculous!!! I wasn't aware of this!!! More stringent regulations need to be imposed to combat this! This not only ruins the industry, but also promotes poor quality service by PC companies in general.

Even if there was a recommended price/m2 that consumers are aware of, then even that would be a better grounding for businesses & consumers as a whole.

Regards

Himal Singh

[daveob]

OK. so if I have a small building project at home that I am thinking of doing myself, what is the correct product and mixing ratios to use for poisoning the soil before I throw a slab of concrete ?

[Dave A]

Dave, as far as I know all suitable products are registered for PCO use only. Also eThekwini municipality will require a copy of the certificate of treatment issued by a registered PCO. My apologies for being the bearer of bad news, but do-it-yourself is not an option for you unless you're a registered PCO.

If I can touch on mixing ratios and application rates, these may and will vary by product. The rule (applicable to all registered pesticides) is application must be in accordance with label instructions, and the appropriate instructions will be on the label as it is a legislated requirement in terms of Act 36 of 1947.

[daveob]

Thanks Dave_A.

So all I have to do is prepare the area, contact a registered PCO and have them come in and do the treatment, show me the label / instructions so I can satisfy myself they used the correct mixture, and have them issue the required certificate for the monkeypality ?

Sounds simple enough.

[AndyD]

At a meeting with banks a couple of years ago, they asked if we could do something about soil pre-treatments (we were talking about entomological clearances at the time). Apparently they are very concerned about what is going on.

Of course, since Chlordane's gone, it's only got worse. I've heard stories of folk using Lindane With a knapsack sprayer Applying the stuff as lightly as you do with a herbicide

Maybe the banks would be prepared to talk. They're the guys with the leverage over NHBRC anyway.

The only problem I see there is that they want a list of who not to use (as opposed to who to use).

My comment at the time was "Surely they'd prefer to be working with the shorter list!"

Are the banks or the NHBRC even remotely qualified or mandated to influence pest control industry practices? Surely this would be a SAPCA matter.

[Dave A]

Andy, banks and the NHBRC might not be qualified to make a call on who is doing the job properly and who isn't, but they make an excellent control point if they partner with an organisation (such as SAPCA) to police a list. Effectively the bank and/or NHBRC would be enforcing some admin stuff.

As to mandate, the bank would be protecting their interest (the building value forms part of their collateral, expensive maintenance costs resulting from shoddy workmanship in the original construction also affects the ability of their client to pay their instalments), and assuring quality in construction is part of the NHBRC mandate.