Experienced & unemployed

[Justloadit]

It is a waste of time going through the traditional channels to raise finance for a new product or business. Best would be to build a prototype and to do a demo for the guys who manufactures or use this type of equipment. If necessary sell up to 50% of the rights to someone who can add value (not just an investor, but someone in that industry). Remember that 100% of nothing is still nothing.

Done that and still been successful.

What I have noted, is that no one wants to be involved in the pain, they just want to participate in the profits, but investing as little as possible. In other words they want everything for almost nothing. On one or two occassions I actually asked these so called investors if there was a word "Doos" engraved on my forehead, as I may be an engineer but I understand business and finance.

[adrianh]

There are a number of things that I have learned about investors:
1. They want to get back a lot more than they put in - otherwise they may as well leave their money in the bank.
2. You have to put your money where your mouth is - they will not invest in your idea unless you are willing to go balls to the wall yourself - You will have to put everything on the line yourself too (house, car and whatever else you have).
3. They will not fund your lifestyle - they are there to invest in a product, not you salary, car, and holiday.
4. They will give you just enough money as it is needed to keep you hungry for more.
5. They primarily invest in people and not ideas. The reason being that the right person will be able to relentlessly drive viable ideas but the wrong person will simply not be able to drive any idea.
6. They look for passion, drive, industry knowledge, a willingness to learn but also a willingness to work hand in hand with the investor.

...and after all of that you still need to be sure that your investor doesn't leave you out in the cold once the product starts making money. Nikola Tesla died pennyless yet the entire world relies on his inventions every second of every day. Yet Westinghouse, Edison and Marconi did very well riding on his coattails.

[Justloadit]

Done that and still been successful.

Actually meant unsuccessful .

[Justloadit]

There are a number of things that I have learned about investors:
1. They want to get back a lot more than they put in - otherwise they may as well leave their money in the bank.
2. You have to put your money where your mouth is - they will not invest in your idea unless you are willing to go balls to the wall yourself - You will have to put everything on the line yourself too (house, car and whatever else you have).
3. They will not fund your lifestyle - they are there to invest in a product, not you salary, car, and holiday.
4. They will give you just enough money as it is needed to keep you hungry for more.
5. They primarily invest in people and not ideas. The reason being that the right person will be able to relentlessly drive viable ideas but the wrong person will simply not be able to drive any idea.
6. They look for passion, drive, industry knowledge, a willingness to learn but also a willingness to work hand in hand with the investor.

...and after all of that you still need to be sure that your investor doesn't leave you out in the cold once the product starts making money. Nikola Tesla died pennyless yet the entire world relies on his inventions every second of every day. Yet Westinghouse, Edison and Marconi did very well riding on his coattails.

I have invested a substantial amount of time and own money, and driven to the point that a conceptual unit built with my own money, and a prototype built with another group of engineer/manufacturer with their money, but have not and still not able to draw any investors in. I reckon to date probably total investment of R1M. The group was successful only to patent in RSA as we did not have the funds to do world wide patent. Received a final letter from overseas patent attorneys, after investigation world wide, that we are successful in the uniqueness of our patent.

Every single home on the planet would make use of this unit, and more so that there is the threat of failure from not only ESKOM but other utility suppliers. The product can also be used in areas in which no infrastructure has been provided. Can be used by third world emerging markets and 1st world markets to reduce their tendency from a central source of supply.

The unit makes use of gas as a primary source of energy, and improves efficiency in the use there off. We are talking about the use of 60 to 70% return in energy usage from each liter of gas used, to supply cooking, heating, cooling and electrical generation.

[adrianh]

@Justloadit - If you are serious about getting real investment and you want to talk turkey I could introduce you to my brother. He has invested a fortune in my, and other businesses. Like I said, he invests primarily in people, ideas are secondary. The list of ventures he is involved in is mind boggling. As an aside, he is very influential and extremely well connected.

[Justloadit]

Ok Adrian, will PM you with some info in the morning about the project. You can then pass it on and see what he says.

[adrianh]

Great!

[JanChris]

Guys, It is much easier to develop an idea or a working prototype if you have funds. What do you do if you have no funds bat actually built such an prototype that only cost about R20000 in the late 80's, that replaces a machine that costs millions. I have also build a powerless fridge. The interested parties want to know in detail how the machine works but I refuse to give them the info until they have signed an non-disclosure agreement.

[HR Solutions]

The interested parties want to know in detail how the machine works but I refuse to give them the info until they have signed an non-disclosure agreement

If they were really interested - why don't they sign the NON - disclosure agreement ? Its not as if THEY are not going to know how something works, its merely that they cant disclose to anyone else, but if they really wanted the product they would keep it in house and sign .......

So Im a little confused - I understand that you wont give them the info, but don't understand further ....

[JanChris]

If they were really interested - why don't they sign the NON - disclosure agreement ? Its not as if THEY are not going to know how something works, its merely that they cant disclose to anyone else, but if they really wanted the product they would keep it in house and sign .......

So Im a little confused - I understand that you wont give them the info, but don't understand further ....

Unfortunately not all interested parties have honest intentions. Maybe they would want all the details to fabricate the equipment themselves.

[Blurock]

Guys, It is much easier to develop an idea or a working prototype if you have funds. What do you do if you have no funds bat actually built such an prototype that only cost about R20000 in the late 80's, that replaces a machine that costs millions. I have also build a powerless fridge. The interested parties want to know in detail how the machine works but I refuse to give them the info until they have signed an non-disclosure agreement.

An NDA as a pre-requisite is the minimum requirement. If they do not want to sign it, walk away and look for someone else.

[Greig Whitton]

Guys, It is much easier to develop an idea or a working prototype if you have funds. What do you do if you have no funds bat actually built such an prototype that only cost about R20000 in the late 80's, that replaces a machine that costs millions. I have also build a powerless fridge. The interested parties want to know in detail how the machine works but I refuse to give them the info until they have signed an non-disclosure agreement.

Why not patent your inventions? Personally, I don't put a great deal of stock in NDAs.

[adrianh]

The reality of design and manufacture is that whatever you make, it will be copied and probably improved upon. The only way is to sell on fast and hard and to build a reputation for the business. There is practically nothing in this world that cannot used as a basis to build something new and better. The problem with patents is that they do not stop anybody from copying your product, they simply give you a tool that you can use in a court to try and enforce your rights. Patents mean absolutely nothing to the Chinese and little companies are also happy to copy and trade on the fringes. What will you do if you see a company making similar products to you, nothing much other than flap your wings and if you have the money then take them to court. Taking companies to court is simply a waste of time because you are simply unable to take each and every one of them to court.

The reason many ideas never materialize is because the inventor feels that he should get the largest part of the profits because he had the idea. No investor will give his money away for a tiny stake in a venture.

[HR Solutions]

Unfortunately not all interested parties have honest intentions. Maybe they would want all the details to fabricate the equipment themselves.

But even if they do that - you are asking for them to sign a non disclosure .......... nothing else ? !

[JanChris]

But even if they do that - you are asking for them to sign a non disclosure .......... nothing else ? !

I know, don't understand also. Maybe I have to wait some more and see if I can get an honest and sincere investor. I have now approached the international market and if the local guys don't want to support the project, it will be there loss. I know I have a winner, not only in SA but international.