Attitude problem

[Blurock]

I don't fully blame the parents, yes they set up the basic behaviour of the child, but the decision to carry a bad attitude was the individuals decision. Besides, parenting doesn't come with a handbook...

The gurus tell us that character is formed in early childhood. So the parents, as well as the social environment has a lot to do with the child's development. It is therefore difficult to understand how (let's say good parents) can have both "good and bad" children. One may become a minister and the other would possibly land in jail.

Not easy to be a parent and not easy to be a child. Strong value systems may compensate for this.

[murdock]

so where does the frog and the scorpion fit into all this...i am sure you know this story...cut it short....the frog gives the scorpion a lift across the river but kills the frog on the other side...it in his nature...you dont think its just in some peoples nature to be Aholes...with bad attitude...or come into money and think the world owes them big time...i believe this discussion is a lot simpler than we think...you could be born with a chemical imbalance which just makes you the kind of person you are...in saying that i dont have a degree in human behaviour.

[mother]

What I am saying is that people make their own choices irrespective of what the parents say or do. Parents can only advise, they cannot mould their children to their own likeness!

You know, Adrian, a lot of kids rebel against their parents, and it's a necessary part of maturing for certain personality types. But I don't see how rebellious behaviour is the same as having a bad attitude. Rebellious behaviour (mostly) boil down to actions aimed at oneself, i.e. searching for an identity, exploring the validity of rules & limitations, etc. A bad attitude, on the other hand, has to do with one's actions towards other people.

Most rebellious behaviour eventually come to an end, as the individual "finds his identity" and settles into maturity ... then, 99% of the time, that person returns to his blueprint (his roots).

Don't you agree? Didn't you eventually settle and become a version of your parents?

Parents shouldn't only advise, they should make the rules, enforce the rules and lead by example.

[adrianh]

No, I don't agree with you at all. I was rebellious and I still have a very nasty / vindictive streak (unlike my parents). Up until I was about 40, I would be fine one moment and totally explode the next. I would wake up with a thunder cloud in my head and I would let rip at whoever crossed my path. That is exactly why I agreed with murdock regarding the chemical imbalance (imbalance or chemical state at the time) . I calmed down quite a bit over the years but I can still get very very angry.

Our mental & physical machinery is very sensitive to our own chemisty (which is also fairly volitile). Our mental machinery is also dependent on our wiring and the interaction between the wiring and chemistry. Our neurotransmitters and brain chemicals (Seretonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine) regulate our moods. Moods and what we consider to be attitudes, are closely related. Another interesting fact is that our sexual function is also heavily controlled by the same chemicals). Depression (which a lot of people would consider to be a negative attitude) is mostly a function of those three chemicals. Happy go lucky people (who are said to have good positive attitudes may have a lot of dopamine floating around). Why does Prozac and other SSRI's make people feel happier and reflect "better attitudes"?; for the same reason, they simply adjusts the volume / re-uptake of those chemicals in the brain. This shows that what people perceive as attitudes may lie in moods which lie in chemistry. Another interesting fact is that chemicals such a Lamotrigine (which is known as a sodium channel blocker) can totally suppress emotion which of course is used as a mood stabilizer.

The notion of finding one's identity is also a misnomer. I have changed radically over the years. What is my identity - can't really say, I consider myself to have many different facets. Look, I spent a lot of time with wayward people that got off the rails for whatever reason. None of them were versions of their parents.

My wife isn't a version of her parents, to the contrary, she is probably opposite to her parents. My brother is nothing like my father or mother. My girls have elements of my wife & I. My youngest daughter is like me in certain respects. She is fearless to a degree of being reckless. She gets very cross and does things without thinking, she gets into trouble for saying nasty things, because her autonomous mind reacts before her forebrain processes. My eldest is nothing like me or my wife. She is very sharp, she has a tremendous memory and she speaks faster than my wife or I can understand.

What I am saying is that we inherit as much mental character traits from our parents as we do physical likeness. One can sometimes see a genetic resemblance between parents and kids but not a version of your parents. You must also remember that our minds are not horizontal. What I mean is that all experiences do not have equal weight in determining how we make decisions. Our minds are like low grade onions, memories and event build upon one another and those memories are not static, cast in an exact replica of reality, forever. This can be proved quite simply by the fact that 3 people recall the same event in different ways and as time passes that recollection changes and fades. Another thing is that we short circuit memories and training. When I ask you what 7 x 7 is you say its 49. You didn't do the calculation at the speed of light, you simply short circuited the question to the answer. Think about great musicians, they don't have to wonder where the keys are on the keyboard, their feeling for the music becomes hard wired into the circuits that drive & guide their hands. Most people that are very very good at things can't explain how they do it. This is also why the best athletes don't make the best coaches, because they simply can't explain how the short circuiting is put together. Ok, so where does it leave our mental states / attitudes. We do the same, we short circuit our training / memories.

Lets say a girl gets taught to be a prude because her mother is a prude, the day she gets out the house she might become a total slag. If what you say is true then there would be not be prostitutes that come from good homes roaming the street. I have a friend, all she ever wanted to do was be a concert pianist. Her parents told her that she is wasting her time and she should get a real job. She was an only child and when left school she took a loan and studied music. She got a masters degree in music and when she completed her studies, she got on a plane on the 29th of January 1995 to go to London to play the piano. She never ever spoke to her parents again. She is a lovely person, who hates her parants to such a degree that she will never speak to them again.

The bottom line is that nothing in life is black and white nor simple. Life comes in shades of grey and is fuzzy and fluid. We evolve on a daily basis. The problem is that people who live in a black & white world do not see he changes in themselves. They believe that their mental machinery is cast in stone and never changes. The ones that spent their lives fighting with their own mental states are able to look inwards and see the changes, and because of this are able to see the changes in others.

So, I will say without a doubt that my own attitudes towards various issues & people have changed over the years (I won't use the word matured because that is also a fallacy) the fact that one holds a particular view of the world (that is generally similar to that of your society) by no means mean that it is mature. Anyway, what is mature thinking, how can a person profess to have mature thinking if they have never spent any time thinking about thought processes, about what makes us tick, they've never read any classics, philosophy, they've never experienced real tragedy nor the anguish of others. All they did was spend their lives in their closed societal worlds. No, I think that our thinking / attitudes evolve and we grow older.

Parents shouldn't only advise, they should make the rules, enforce the rules and lead by example.

This is very noble but again, life doesn't work that way. Parents can only make rules to a limited degree, kids have minds of their own and will explore simply because it comes naturally. Why do girls get pregnant at 16 when it goes against all that their parents teach and stand for, why do 16 year old boys take their parents cars for a spin in the middle of the night even though their parents have all sorts of rules regarding such matters. Then the matter of parents leading by example, you know, a bad example can also be a good example of how not to do things. All parents have failings and do things that one shouldn't really do in front of kids. I strip when a taxi gets in my way, a get into an argument with the guy, my girls see the results and never do the same. My wife's parents did a hell of a lot of drinking and fighting, she never ever drinks or fights. Leading by example when you are out of step with reality and the times could be very problematic. You don't like cell phones with cameras because in your day you didn't have such thing. Your example is to only use the cellphone as a tool and not to go into facebook etc. Of course, when the kids get to school they spend the entire break buggering around on the phones with their friends. The young boys take photographs of all sorts of interesting things that they pass along to one another (which the parents don't know about)

Kids have minds of their own, the best we can do is to teach, to learn, to share, yes to make rules within reason, to pick them up when they stumble, but most of all; to be available and support them in their quest to become who they are (even if we don't agree with who they are!)

God forbid my kids become like me - (I'll never forget what my father told me - he said; whatever you do, don't be like me)

[wynn]

So adrianh I take it you are bi-polar with multiple personality disorder? just like me except that I also have a laissez faire streak and an early f#*kit threshold

[Blurock]

Wow, what a mouthful. Adrian, you should have been a shrink!

[adrianh]

I can asure you, I think the way I do not for a lack of having to deal with my own issues!

[murdock]

i do believe that things that happen in your life s a child stay with throughout your life...like my eating disorder...just one example we were not allowed to leave the table until our plate was clean...if we did not eat all our food we were beaten until we did or left at the table until all the food was finished...the scary thing is my dog wouldnt even eat the food i fed him under the table to help me finish...our parents and the way they bring you us up during our childhood do make a huge impact on our lives be it positive or negative.

[adrianh]

@wynn

hmmm....seems rather problematic...

Question: What Is Laissez-Faire Leadership?

Answer: Laissez-faire leadership, also known as delegative leadership, is a type of leadership style in which leaders are hands-off and allow group members to make the decisions. Researchers have found that this is generally the leadership style that leads to the lowest productivity among group members.

...
Sounds like South African democracy!

[tec0]

If you control your anger... People think "pushover"
If you don't control your anger... People think "Jerk"
If your attitude is "easy going" People abuse it.
If your attitude stinks "Hard core style" You are unemployed.

Fact is: You cannot please everyone.
Fact is: You will be judged by others.
Fact is: Nothing you ever do will be right.

Advice: Happy pills, anger management and a false smile.

And above all PRETEND " Make believe works "

[Just Gone]

Quote [tec0


If you control your anger... People think "pushover" ]


Nope dont agree. You can control your anger, control yourself totally - and be a stong person .... even a leader ! But certainly not a pushover. Trust me I'm not a "pushover"

[Blurock]

Agree with Kevinb. Iron fist in the velvet glove. Not pretending - the other guy will know exactly where he stands. You do not have to shout to get a point across. (I still sometimes struggle with that one) It shows breeding.

[tec0]

Nope dont agree. You can control your anger, control yourself totally - and be a stong person .... even a leader ! But certainly not a pushover. Trust me I'm not a "pushover"

Attitude good or bad comes down to the one factor one cannot control, as mentioned before it is how others perceive one. One can have the best attitude in the world and someone will still find a way to judge.

Pretending is a coping mechanism, granted it is not always the best way to deal with a situation. I will agree with that. But there is no-way for a person to control what another thinks of her or him, there is always a degree of judgement.

Some of the ways you can deal with it is to react and adapt according to the situation. If it calls for being jerk then do so. If it calls for savvy and finesse then do so. No two situations are the same so one cannot deal with them in the same-way.

[adrianh]

Attitude good or bad comes down to the one factor one cannot control, as mentioned before it is how others perceive one. One can have the best attitude in the world and someone will still find a way to judge.

Interesting, but generally attitudes are measured against acceptable social norms. (An acceptable attitude towards women in some countries is not accpetable elsewhere)

An attitude is defined as "A settled way of thinking or feeling, typically reflected in a person's behavior" which implies that it coverers general behaviour over a period of time, rather than single events. "Sy kop het uitgehak" does not constitute an attitude.

[tec0]

An attitude in general comes down to behaviour, morality and general laws. That said emotion and experience are what makes us human. If by experience one believes he/she lives in a world that doesn't give a damn that doesn't necessarily point to them having an automatic "bad attitude" morality or the lack there off will be a contributing factor for it controls behaviour to a degree. Behaviour on the other hand is also controlled "directly by law"

Fact is, today some behaviour is frowned upon and yet some time ago it was perfectly acceptable. In the early years of human evolution killing people in public via torture was considered entertaining. Today it is illegal to rip someone apart or have them devoured by a lion for entertainment.

So attitude is a complex mental state. But be careful not to become to judgemental.

Sometimes someone may have a slight mental condition and they do not always display a perfect image of who they are.