Does a stove need to be on an earth leakage?

[Leecatt]

Something that I often come across is a stove that has been removed from the earth leakage in domestic installations.
Many electricians believe that a stove does not need to be protected by an earth leakage and this may not be the case.
Where a stove is supplied via a stove coupler then the need for an earth leakage falls away, however, in the absence of a stove coupler then the stove must be supplied via an earth leakage.
Here is a very interesting article on this subject

http://www.eepublishers.co.za/article/connecting-free-standing-cooking-appliances.html

[Dave A]

Where a stove is supplied via a stove coupler then the need for an earth leakage falls away, however, in the absence of a stove coupler then the stove must be supplied via an earth leakage.

My understanding is the stove may also be without earth leakage protection when it's a fixed wire installation and there isn't a socket outlet

[Leecatt]

My understanding is the stove may also be without earth leakage protection when it's a fixed wire installation and there isn't a socket outlet

Me too Dave. The only reason I researched this was the new requirement for plug socket outlets in SANS. I decided to find out what a 164-1/2/3/4/...plug socket outlet looked like and came across this bit about the stove coupler.
We learn every day hey?

[ians]

This is rather interesting, considering i am yet to see a stove coupler in any stove connection in durban or surrounding areas.

The way i do the inspection report, if there is a socket outlet in the switch disconnector on the wall with a 16 amp fuse, it must be on earth leakage, if the stove is connected via a 45 amp isolator with no socket outlet, no earth leakage is required. If there is no earth leakeage and a socket on the isolator, i take super glue and glue one of those baby cover into the socket, so that you cannot take it out and remove the fuse.

[Leecatt]

This is rather interesting, considering i am yet to see a stove coupler in any stove connection in durban or surrounding areas.

The way i do the inspection report, if there is a socket outlet in the switch disconnector on the wall with a 16 amp fuse, it must be on earth leakage, if the stove is connected via a 45 amp isolator with no socket outlet, no earth leakage is required. If there is no earth leakeage and a socket on the isolator, i take super glue and glue one of those baby cover into the socket, so that you cannot take it out and remove the fuse.

I think that there are stove couplers in places like company canteens.
The standards are not very flexible in this area and i will remember this in future.
With regards to fuses in socket outlets I would remove that I think. Despite the reference to the "original standards applicable during erection", it is more often than not that the fuse wire is replaced with fencing wire.

[ians]

Never seen one, not in company canteens, commercial centres, industrial enviroments, nowhere.

Dave have your guys in working in Durban ever seen a stove coupler installed, while carrying out inspection reports in KZN?

I have heard they are big in the Cape.

The scary thing is that people in KZN take their stoves when they move, unles sit is a built in HOB or undercounter unit.

Apparently many years ago a 2 year old child electricuted to death in a house in Westville, the previous owner disconnected the stove and left the wires, live, sticking out the sprag, new owners moved in child went into the kitchen. The house was inspected and passed, but the owner disconnected the stove when he moved out.

[Dave A]

Dave have your guys in working in Durban ever seen a stove coupler installed, while carrying out inspection reports in KZN?

Yep - we've seen a few. I'm not sure I could extract stats on numbers, though. Apparently it's ridiculous how much it forces the stove away from the wall...

I've got a sneaking suspicion it's supposed to be positioned at the side of the space allocated to the free standing stove instead of the middle of the space. It'll certainly make a big difference - but I guess old habits die hard.

[Sparks]

Far as I know the isolators with socket outlets are no longer available. I actually hunted far and wide for fuses so that I could install one,which I had removed elsewhere, at my folks place. The socket outlet is used every day and is very conveniently situated. Having 40A available in the kitchen is great for large appliances. As for the stove causing nuisance tripping, well, since installing the isolator with socket outlet, more than 10 years ago, the stove has not tripped the ELCB once. The socket outlet is obviously rated higher than 16A. The unit has a seperate isolating switch for the socket outlet as well as the "cooker". Both are switched off at night.

[Katenda]

The latest stoves do not have fuses and if it is fed from a 45 amp Circuit Breaker the person using the stove when a fault occur will get a massive surprise! Maybe that is why most guys place it on E/L?

[JFK]

Seriously!!! The reason so-called 'competent' electricians remove a stove from the Earthleakage is to prevent it from tripping. The REASON why it trips IS because there IS current leaking on the stove which CAN electrocute someone!!! This means the stove is UNSAFE and a HAZARD!!! This is NOT nuisance tripping issue but an ACTUAL electrical PROBLEM!!!

[kosmonooit]

Having just tried to memorise SANS 10142, I can confirm

6.7.5.5 The following do not need earth leakage protection:

..

d) a stove coupler that complies with SANS 60309-1/IEC 60309-1 and of
dimensions as given in SANS 337 (see 6.15.1.2.5). Amdt 5


What exactly this makes in terms of nullifying the need for protection I cant say.

[DieterT]

So in saying all this in this discussion about removing stoves and lights from earth leakage protection, who of you actually do the earth resistance test and continuity of bonding before doing this?
Just remember that the earth leakage is not the primary form of protection, its an added protection.

[Didditmiself]

Precisely! The only reason anybody would decide to remove an earth leakage CB is because of it being a nuisance. If it trips, then better to look for the fault.

[DieterT]

Precisely! The only reason anybody would decide to remove an earth leakage CB is because of it being a nuisance. If it trips, then better to look for the fault.

Or in the case of an new installation one would design the installation as such to only have socket outlets under earth leakage protection (also other devices which could require E/L protection), also only after satisfying oneself that the earth resistance of the earth continuity conductor is within the required earth resistance limit in accordance to the protective device. Therefor also avoiding nuisance tripping of the earth leakage, but still offering the primary form of protection on all electrical devices and continuity of all conductive surfaces which could become live in the case of malfunction of electrical devices or wiring.

I prefer to have everything under E/L, but that is my preference and not the industry requirement and with saying that it will not just be one earth leakage. I would install a separate earth leakage for my plugs and at each sub board it's own (swimming pool/garage/ etc.) I cannot enforce my own preferences onto my client, it is a "nice to have" and extra form of protection which is not required. With larger developments this would for sure make the cost difference an enormous amount. Normally one can see especially with larger developments who the the inexperienced electricians are due to the fact that everything is wired underneath earth leakage, because having everything under E/L means then the sparky can get aways with doing a poor job...

[JFK]

Forget what SANS says for a minute, and let's break this down... The stove trips the earth leakage; electrician removes the stove circuit from the earth leakage; earth leakage doesn't trip any more; problem solved, right? Can any proper qualified electrician honestly tell me that he'll go home and NOT worry WHY the stove caused the E/L to trip in the 1st place, plus now he's just removed an essential SAFETY device from the stove circuit?