[Question] Socket Outlet positionings

[Smut]

When I was reading through my SANS 10142 book, I came across a statement which I think does not make sense to me, see bow pic

Does this means you can install the SSO even in water??

[Sparks]

You may, provided it complies with the conditions stipulated. Why would you?

[Slow Blow]

You can mount it over the bath with a small shelf for the two bar electric heater if its connected to an earth leakage unit.
Err no I wouldn't do this, and yes I have been asked to do it.

[AndyD]

Does this means you can install the SSO even in water??

I'd prefer to look at the regs as being the minimum required standards, there will always be scenarios that aren't specifically mentioned or covered which require the competant electrician to make a decision based on his knowledge, experience and common sense. The question I usually ask myself in these cases is if the worst ever came to the worst how comfortable would I be to stand in a courtroom and defend my actions or decision?

[RTsparky]

You can mount it over the bath with a small shelf for the two bar electric heater if its connected to an earth leakage unit.
Err no I wouldn't do this, and yes I have been asked to do it.

Hi Slow Blow, I beg to differ. Over the bath would be zone 1 up to 2.5m high from the water so no plugs allowed, zone 2 within 600mm from the bath edge also no plug unless 50va safety supply like a shaver. Zone 3 outside 600mm would be the closest you can mount a plug to a bath or shower.
So to answer the initial question, no you can't mount a socket outlet in water, first check the zone rules for baths, showers, pools, fountains etc.

[ians]

"Does this means you can install the SSO even in water??"


6.15.6.2 answers your question...The insulation resistance must not be affected. So you might say but I can seal the box, you would be correct, but you would never be able to use the socket outlet.

[RTsparky]

"Does this means you can install the SSO even in water??"


6.15.6.2 answers your question...The insulation resistance must not be affected. So you might say but I can seal the box, you would be correct, but you would never be able to use the socket outlet.

Hi Ians, 6.15.6.2 pertains specifically to a recessed floor plug and has nothing to do with mounting a plug in or near water.
The same can't be said for other parts of sans 10142 but when it comes to socket outlets and water then it is very clear as to what you are allowed or not allowed to do.

[Sparks]

but you may install a socket outlet underneath the bath, in which case it is "under" the water and it would be totally legit
The space below a bath is not considered to be "in the bathroom".

[ians]

When I was reading through my SANS 10142 book, I came across a statement which I think does not make sense to me, see bow pic

Does this means you can install the SSO even in water??

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4421[/ATTACH]

I was responding to this question with this attachment. Common sense would tell me that the insulation resistance of "any socket outlet" regardless of its location, bathroom, kitchen, outdoors, etc, would be affected if installed "in water".

This question makes me think of the picture doing the rounds, where there is a multi plug floating on a slop in a pool. Nothing illegal about it, because for one it doesn't form part of the electrical installation as it is cable plugged into a socket outlet. There would be people stupid enough to actually do it. So long as the electrician who installed and connected the socket outlet which is fed from is done according to regulations, there would be no recourse on him.

However in saying that, I have seen on more than one occasion on work sites where it is pouring down with rain and plugs are exposed in puddles, which is just as risky.

This is why there have to be at least a basic set of rules.

[Dave A]

I think what is forgotten at times when it comes to complying with the standard, is that you have to comply with the whole standard.

The question one has to ask is not - "does this comply with this part of the standard", but "does it transgress any part of the standard?"

In relation to socket outlets and water, it's highly likely that parts of section 7 Special installations or locations will also be applicable, not just S 16.6.

[Yuri]

My understanding is when you have a isolating/safety transfomer installed you will rater use a isoloc
On a normal installation the neutral/earth wire is connected the metal parts in the home/installation aria . That then makes you shock if you touch any earthed part and live

In a safety transfomer circuit the not one wire is connected to metal parts so if one wire touches the metal parts it will still not make a short . The isoloc will pick it up and cut the power

[AndyD]

I'm not very familiar with isoloc earthing system, I know it's one of the many high impedance earthing arrangements they use in industrial applications. I think it's more about monitoring insulation breakdown and, rather than aiming to clear the fault withing a very quick disconnection time like domestic installations, a fault causes an alarm and the fault is manually cleared. I think Isoloc is more about monitoring and repairing before a full blown fault occurs.

Have you worked with isoloc systems Yuri?

[Yuri]

Yes I have
The once at work is connected on a N/C contact that cuts the main contractor.