Inverter Install Compliance

[Tonye]

Glad I could help.

[Tonye]

My inverters are also line interactive. The reason for running through the changeover switch is to allow the client to turn off
Equipment which may overload the inverter.

[Tonye]

Ah hah!
This solves a problem i have been finding of an earth fault not tripping the EL.
So the solution is to earth the neutral on the load side(output) of the inverter?
This makes sense.
Thanx for the input.
The inverters i have installed are line interactive inverters so no changeover switch is required. It switches automatically on mains fail, but even when Eskom is available it runs in bypass mode, still supplying the critical load with power at the rated maximum size of the inverter...

Just completed an installation. Pulling my hair out. Earth leakage keeps tripping when running on inverter
mode. Apparently their are different types of earth leakage units.
Type AC, sensitive to alternating current only
Type A, sensitive to alternating current and/or pulsating current with DC components.
Don't know if you have also experienced this.

[DieterT]

Nice job!

Like the trunking you used and the way it has the curve into the flush mounted DB, very neat.
I had no idea there was AC & A type earth leakages. Would the A type earth leakage have a difference with tripping on the inverter?

Normally we just implement a connection box at the output of the inverter/generator with a neutral bar inside and do a earth neutral connection and label it on the box.
This is also the point where we bring our earth spike into the installation, so kind off kills 2 birds with one stone + being able to safely earth the alternative supply.

[Tonye]

Nice job!

Like the trunking you used and the way it has the curve into the flush mounted DB, very neat.
I had no idea there was AC & A type earth leakages. Would the A type earth leakage have a difference with tripping on the inverter?

Normally we just implement a connection box at the output of the inverter/generator with a neutral bar inside and do a earth neutral connection and label it on the box.
This is also the point where we bring our earth spike into the installation, so kind off kills 2 birds with one stone + being able to safely earth the alternative supply.

Hi Dieter,
Thanks for the compliment. The trunking is quite expensive but comes with all types of accesories,
making a neat job. I was also not aware of different types of earth leakage units.
Type AC should be fine on Pure sine wave inverters and Type A should work on Modified sine wave inverters. I will be doing further tests and let you know the outcome

[Tonye]

Hi Dieter,
Thanks for the compliment. The trunking is quite expensive but comes with all types of accesories,
making a neat job. I was also not aware of different types of earth leakage units.
Type AC should be fine on Pure sine wave inverters and Type A should work on Modified sine wave inverters. I will be doing further tests and let you know the outcome

It wasn't neccesary to use a Type A Earth leakage unit. Found that the type Ac I was using was faulty.
Installed a new one and problem solved.

[DieterT]

It wasn't neccesary to use a Type A Earth leakage unit. Found that the type Ac I was using was faulty.
Installed a new one and problem solved.

Great news on being able to use a standard earth leakage and not having to spend extra money.
And very upsetting no know that earth leakage where faulty especially because it being an earth leakage...much concern for the products our country is bringing in.
Which make was it?

[Tonye]

Great news on being able to use a standard earth leakage and not having to spend extra money.
And very upsetting no know that earth leakage where faulty especially because it being an earth leakage...much concern for the products our country is bringing in.
Which make was it?

ACDC, replaced with ABB

[DieterT]

ACDC, replaced with ABB

ACDC I had my fair share of ACDC products. Had a chat with one of their reps on a issue with a voltage regulator, his words where when I mentioned that the regulator is not SABS approved was that I would be amazed how many products they sell ain't SABS approved and since I realized that saving a buck on something that might cost someone their life ain't worth it. Luckily they are forcing suppliers now to take responsibility for their products as well which has been mostly left on the installer and user/lessor.
Imagine installing a earth leakage that fails on a situation where someone gets shocked... or a wire connection shorts out and causes a fire but the circuit breaker never trips.
I'd rather stay with the safehouse products and products that has a good name in the industry.

I heard that CHINT is making a comeback as it has been taken away from RIKEN who used to sell them (and eventually started selling a look a like)
Other than than I like LS , ABB , CBI ( I am concerned about) , ONESTO ( also in question ) , LEAR ( also somewhat cautious about that one) I might have left out one or 2 that also got good industry standing.

[SilverNodashi]

ACDC I had my fair share of ACDC products. Had a chat with one of their reps on a issue with a voltage regulator, his words where when I mentioned that the regulator is not SABS approved was that I would be amazed how many products they sell ain't SABS approved and since I realized that saving a buck on something that might cost someone their life ain't worth it. Luckily they are forcing suppliers now to take responsibility for their products as well which has been mostly left on the installer and user/lessor.
Imagine installing a earth leakage that fails on a situation where someone gets shocked... or a wire connection shorts out and causes a fire but the circuit breaker never trips.
I'd rather stay with the safehouse products and products that has a good name in the industry.

I heard that CHINT is making a comeback as it has been taken away from RIKEN who used to sell them (and eventually started selling a look a like)
Other than than I like LS , ABB , CBI ( I am concerned about) , ONESTO ( also in question ) , LEAR ( also somewhat cautious about that one) I might have left out one or 2 that also got good industry standing.

As matter of interested, what are your concerns with CBI, ONESTO and LEAR?

[DieterT]

As matter of interested, what are your concerns with CBI, ONESTO and LEAR?

CBI concerns me as they where the industry standard, basically had a monopoly on the South African industry.
They became over priced as they knew most people where forced to use them because they had samite back rail type boards.
Later on I started noticing faulty breakers. One time an earth leakage and circuit breakers on two other occasions.
Now also they don't even have the SABS mark on their breakers, where they used to be the fore runner of the SABS mark...
And yes CBI has an representative at the SABS board.

With ONESTO I have had quite a few faulty's. Never did much research of who they are and where they come from. They where at the time I used them over priced compared with CHINT as CHINT used to be the dinrail industry standard.

With LEAR the only concern I carry is the certifications. I have not had one faulty up to this date and they make a good replacement for CBI also being samite mount.
After a good conversation with one of the guys in charge at LEAR (think his name was Louis) it was well understood that certification is done by batch and not per unit as this would cause each breaker to be increased in price by at least R5. He did also show that they carry the certification in order to sell their products in South Africa (not that I have much confidence in what South Africa allows and not allow). Apart from their certifications, at least they form part of Safe House and they are good competition to CBI which gives us installers an alternative and the client affordability.

[SilverNodashi]

CBI concerns me as they where the industry standard, basically had a monopoly on the South African industry.
They became over priced as they knew most people where forced to use them because they had samite back rail type boards.
Later on I started noticing faulty breakers. One time an earth leakage and circuit breakers on two other occasions.
Now also they don't even have the SABS mark on their breakers, where they used to be the fore runner of the SABS mark...
And yes CBI has an representative at the SABS board.

With ONESTO I have had quite a few faulty's. Never did much research of who they are and where they come from. They where at the time I used them over priced compared with CHINT as CHINT used to be the dinrail industry standard.

With LEAR the only concern I carry is the certifications. I have not had one faulty up to this date and they make a good replacement for CBI also being samite mount.
After a good conversation with one of the guys in charge at LEAR (think his name was Louis) it was well understood that certification is done by batch and not per unit as this would cause each breaker to be increased in price by at least R5. He did also show that they carry the certification in order to sell their products in South Africa (not that I have much confidence in what South Africa allows and not allow). Apart from their certifications, at least they form part of Safe House and they are good competition to CBI which gives us installers an alternative and the client affordability.

Thanx for the info. I generally prefer CBI and haven't had problems with them yet.

[AndyD]

I've stopped using the CBI electronic QAT timers, we've had a lot of failures over the last 12 months.

[deejaypsy]

I've stopped using the CBI electronic QAT timers, we've had a lot of failures over the last 12 months.

I dont know why they ever changed them! The old type with the push buttons were solid. The new touch screen are not my cup of tea

[hartdev@hotmail.com]

I have had issues with Onesto breakers now on a few occasions. In one case a 7kw Instantaneous Water heater was running on a 20amp Onesto circuit breaker and there was no tripping.
I think we all know how dangerous that was.
I have been using Schneider circuit breakers almost exclusively for 2 years now and not had one failure, 2 years is not very long but so far i'm impressed.
I found this thread very interesting and informative.
I have almost completed the electrical installation in a nice new home in Cape Town. The company which installed the solar and battery backup inverter etc were very quick, in and out on a day I was not on site. They have requested that i rewire the D.B to isolate backup circuits from the non backup circuits. By doing this i would have to disconnect the backup circuits from the earth leakage device. The solar installers don't seem to have an earth leakage device at all in their though so I am trying to find out if the backup inverter has some sort of built in earth leakage protection, I downloaded a manual and saw nothing mentioned. (Victron 24/3000/70).
Does anyone know if we require a specific type of energy dispenser to allow our client to feed back into the grid? This is something I was told the solar installers would see to but no change has been made to the standard ED installed by ourselves.
The solar has not yet been switched on to feed back into the grid, i am worried it could cause some sort of damage.