How to CoC a changeover switch??

[Derlyn]

16 amp plug tops are not rated for 20 amp circuit breakers.

A 30 amp breaker is for the wiring of the installation not the plug top or 0.5 - 1.5 mm cabtyre used in most cases for appliances.

There is no need to replace the 30 amp breakers if the integrity of the existing electrical installation has not been compromised... it is best to walk around and look for new socket outlets ...there is a good chance if there are then someone has used 2.5 mm to wire the new plug unaware of the old 30 amp breakers and i would bet all my old broken circuit breakers that there will not be a COC for the new socket outlet.

Unprotected socket outlets may not have circuit protection bigger than 20Amps irrespective of the wire size.
See 6.15.3.c

Thanks to Dave A for enlightening me on that one.

Cheers and peace out ... Derek.

[Leecatt]

Unprotected socket outlets may not have circuit protection bigger than 20Amps irrespective of the wire size.
See 6.15.3.c

Thanks to Dave A for enlightening me on that one.

Cheers and peace out ... Derek.

Agreed

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[ians]

Unprotected socket outlets may not have circuit protection bigger than 20Amps irrespective of the wire size.
See 6.15.3.c

Thanks to Dave A for enlightening me on that one.

Cheers and peace out ... Derek.

Its complicated ...the bottom line ...it would be quite a challenge to prove the installation was done before Xyz date... etc...you would be required to install a 15 amp circuit breaker type sockets at each socket outlet (way to expensive)...or just derate the circuit breaker in the DB from a 30 down to a 20 amp ... the reason you can use a 20 amp breaker on 16 amp socket outlets...is because there is an allowable tolerance of 25 %.

[ians]

In my conversations with the ECA I was told that there is only one way to ascertain whether or not an installation complies, and that is to do a full inspection regardless of previously issued certificates. The reason for this is that once you issue that additional certificate then you automatically take responsibility for the entire installation.

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Once again a bit complicated ...To clear up my comment ...lets use an existing plug socket as an example ...if you supply and install a socket outlet and run the cable to an existing socket outlet... which is part of a circuit already ...connected to the DB ...you become liable for that circuit to which you connect the socket...and would be required to test and issue a COC for that entire circuit...not the entire electrical installation....however if you install the socket and run the cable back to the DB...install a circuit breaker etc ...you only have to issue a supplement COC for your socket outlet and are only responsible for that circuit ...which will be attached to the existing COC for the rest of the building ...provided there is actually a COC for the rest of the electrical installation.

It gets complicated when you notice things which are not up to standard ...but there is a COC for that part of the job... as soon as you acknowledge the problem and comment about it... that were it gets interesting.

What might seem like such a simple task could turn into a nightmare... a job i did recently... all i had to do was replace 4 light fittings...take down the old fittings and install 4 new fittings ... I requested a COC for the building ...there was no COC ...an electrical inspector did an inspection report and issued a COC... the first metal light i removed had no earth wire...things got complicated.

[Leecatt]

Once again a bit complicated ...To clear up my comment ...lets use an existing plug socket as an example ...if you supply and install a socket outlet and run the cable to an existing socket outlet... which is part of a circuit already ...connected to the DB ...you become liable for that circuit to which you connect the socket...and would be required to test and issue a COC for that entire circuit...not the entire electrical installation....however if you install the socket and run the cable back to the DB...install a circuit breaker etc ...you only have to issue a supplement COC for your socket outlet and are only responsible for that circuit ...which will be attached to the existing COC for the rest of the building ...provided there is actually a COC for the rest of the electrical installation.

It gets complicated when you notice things which are not up to standard ...but there is a COC for that part of the job... as soon as you acknowledge the problem and comment about it... that were it gets interesting.

What might seem like such a simple task could turn into a nightmare... a job i did recently... all i had to do was replace 4 light fittings...take down the old fittings and install 4 new fittings ... I requested a COC for the building ...there was no COC ...an electrical inspector did an inspection report and issued a COC... the first metal light i removed had no earth wire...things got complicated.

Were those lights not subject to
6.12.3.2 (c) (1)?

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[ians]

Were those lights not subject to
6.12.3.2 (c) (1)?

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Come on you should know by now that it is never that simple ...most of the metall lights connected to the circuit were wall mounted...within arms reach.

[Derlyn]

Okay so you issue a cod for the change over switch installed. But what if the existing circuit breakers are some of those old once with a 30A circuit breaker rating for a plug circuit which is found in some of the older homes? Surely you need to change the circuit breaker to 20A the plugs cannot handle 30A. You should surely notify the client that your section of the installation complies but that part which it’s connected to or feeding power to, does not comply with general safety?

Pieter

You were referring to older homes.

If an existing installation is extended or altered, such extension or alteration shall comply with the provisions of the part of SANS 10142 that were applicable at the time of the erection of the extension or alteration.

The edition of the standard that was applicable at the date of erection of an electrical installation is to be considered the edition defining the requirements applicable to that particular electrical installation.

I understand the above to mean that only your change over switch addition must comply with the present edition of SANS 10142.
The rest of the installation must comply with the standard that was in use at the time the installation was erected. This is where the difficulty arises.

One now has to ask 2 questions. In what year was the installation erected and what was the standard used in that year. If the standard used allowed 30 A circuit breakers on the plug circuits then it would be acceptable and need not be changed.

I'm going to do some research on the history of which standards were used when and if possible get copies of same.

Like Ian said, it gets complicated.

Cheers and peace out ... Derek

[SeanM]

Morning all

When one is issuing a supplementary COC (for work you have done) there has to be an initial COC (unless the property was built before 1987) if the property was built before 1987 and any electrical work gets done the a COC must be issued for entire installation.

If there is an initial COC then no worries if not a COC must be done for entire installation.

[ians]

Just to complicate things a little more... the regs dont stop at 6.12.3.2 (c) (1)...there is another clause in the regs (i am sure someone will find it) which indicates that if the light fitting or any fixed appliance for that matter has a label "this appliance must be earthed" it supersedes the regs.

[Leecatt]

Just to complicate things a little more... the regs dont stop at 6.12.3.2 (c) (1)...there is another clause in the regs (i am sure someone will find it) which indicates that if the light fitting or any fixed appliance for that matter has a label "this appliance must be earthed" it supersedes the regs.

Correct.
Section 5.1

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